h2-builds-and-combat

[warped harness]

which skull aspect are you running?

[fringe lichen]

neither as of now, i want to try using more weapons than the blades and staff

[warped harness]

I like Hera for the attack and or special

[sour cape]

Is Persephone skull meant for omega spamming?

[warped harness]

not really it takes too long to charge

[sour cape]

oh

so waht you use it for?

[warped harness]

you wanna use the omega at like, times you need or want a lot of invuln

or if you fully charge it since the charges carry through stages as a boss phasing tool

[rain hazel]

So for Aspect of Artemis, is the parry just random?

[warped harness]

though ive only played the persephone skull once, and i did lose the run to charon

[turbid hull]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1243978080721309756/image.png?ex=6653705e&is=66521ede&hm=72948eb6a5790773d64166244cf6ff400c3f9b95c3f259ecc1d49b2e73f6478d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=488&height=437 why doesn't it show the Gold Crowns price? It's always the same

[sour cape]

Whats good skull attack then?

lose to charon?

[civic ocean]

yep, there's two ways to play it:

• use the omega special whenever you want and just take the 30% dmg boost

• save the omega special to drop on bosses and spam omega cast

[warped harness]

hera, apollo, I've heard zeus is nice for medea

[spare kite]

That's something I've thrown to feedback before

[civic ocean]

the price can change if you take Expiring Deal

[ornate skiff]

Did you guys realized that you can dash while you hold your omega cast and still get it? How often do you do it? I remapped the cast to "L1" because of it, it's more comfortable than holding "O" and pressing "X"

[turbid hull]

Fair, that would be easy to change though

[civic ocean]

and it also changes depending on your active Vow of Destitution

[sour cape]

oooh Persephone good for cast build?

[civic ocean]

yep Zeus Persephone is goated

[warped harness]

ye she boosts omega damage of all kinds

[turbid hull]

Well I put the Gold Crown cost on my sheet regardless

[sour cape]

i see, Zeus build it is 💀

[warped harness]

actually wait i think i won the persephone run bc i spammed the zeus cast

[civic ocean]

if you want to be extra helpful you could also put what they cost after VoD I and II

[turbid hull]

What do they do? +40% / +80% right?

[civic ocean]

aye

[warped harness]

ye

[turbid hull]

I will do that later. Rn I gotta go eat, cya!

[civic ocean]

later

[warped harness]

vow of inflation, the debt has skyrocketed and charon had to increase his prices

[cursive oyster]

man 32 sucks

[warped harness]

i swear i was getting 2000 damage per omega cast with zeus persephone

[civic ocean]

it is supposed to be the hardest thing anyone reasonably does in the game, yeah

[warped harness]

i think persephone was level 3 too

[turbid hull]

Wait, I also need to put for YoD III

[warped harness]

YoD?

[civic ocean]

hmm?

[turbid hull]

Ah, no, it doesn't have one. Mb

[civic ocean]

what are the vows called in french

[warped harness]

getting expiring deal after that charon item that lengthens the expiry date to 2 guardians is so nice

[civic ocean]

I assume your default language is french oui?

[turbid hull]

Don't remember, probably Voeux?

I've been on english only since I started datamining

[warped harness]

but only really in oceanus and beyond it feels kinda bad in erebus

[turbid hull]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1243979277981188206/image.png?ex=6653717b&is=66521ffb&hm=4b2f444048298446f2058038777c49df4e6acb6a63a9847917be6542c10a46f0&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1300&height=662 is this what you wanted? @civic ocean

[brazen schooner]

It has some mythical precedence. Apollo outran Hermes in Olympic games and became the winner of the footrace so it seems fitting.

[turbid hull]

Oopsie, wrote YoD instead of VoD

[tall notch]

Putting French names in your datamining doc would've been top-tier trolling

[civic ocean]

it's "VoD" for "Vow of Destitution" ye

[turbid hull]

Excuse my stupid see ya

[civic ocean]

have a good meal

[warped harness]

the hera cast is good early for the high damage to enemies right

is there any other ways to use it?

[tall notch]

Pretty much just an early clearing tool, for general mob control or keeping up furies the increased duration can be a liability

[warped harness]

it could be nice for bosses but yeah it definitely has its ups and downs

[civic ocean]

It also has some very outside edge case use with the Hades skullball cast throw, because having a cast last longer isn't actually a downside if it follows Chronos around

[warped harness]

oh also a funny thing i noticed with vow of fury, it speeds up idle animations and it makes roxy shake in her drum kit

[spare kite]

Just hit a cast swap at the end of oceanus 🧠

[glossy rivet]

Dad cast can move around?

[spare kite]

Dad cast works like the h1 casts and stays in the enemy yeah

[glossy rivet]

yyoo i thought its just like hestia or zeus lance didnt know it can lodge and move with the enemy

[civic ocean]

Yes, the text description of Howling Soul is misleading. Both the skull and the resulting cast home in and move with whatever it hits

[spare kite]

It looks funny if you lodge it in a numbskull

[civic ocean]

it's not AS useful as it could be because Chronos' time bubbles dispel casts

[spare kite]

Cast just poofs

[civic ocean]

but it's otherwise quite strong especially on Pan

[spare kite]

Also 200 base dmg gud

[glossy rivet]

Now just need mel to say "DARKNESS" whenever she dashes or smth

[karmic gust]

Are storm ring and Apollo cast mutually exclusive? I don’t have a good bearing on how omega cast boons work

[warped harness]

i want her to say blood and darkness after a death/dd proc

[karmic gust]

I wouldn’t think so since one is only when omega expires and one is while it’s active

[civic ocean]

If you hit Engagement Ring Howling Soul and Boundless Flurry you can for real hit Chronos with like 10+ Pan OSpecs in 1 cast

[warped harness]

yes bc storm ring is zeus's cast boon

lightning lance would still work i think

[karmic gust]

Oh so omega cast boons count as cast boons?

[warped harness]

ye

[karmic gust]

Dang ok thanks

[warped harness]

what matters is if the boon appears in your boon slot on the lefthand side of the screen

[spare kite]

Strike/flourish/ring/sprint(and aphro's dash)/gain can only have 1 active (aka the boons to the left of your ui)

[civic ocean]

There are five CORE boons in Hades 2. You know something is a CORE boon because it has one of the following words as its last word:

STRIKE
FLOURISH
SPRINT
RING
GAIN

The only exceptions to this are Zeus' Double Strike boon which is not a core boon

Anything that is a core boon can only be replaced by a core boon swap.

[karmic gust]

Then for glorious disaster (Apollo/zeus duo), is it only when it expires, or while the omega cast is active?

Oh thanks to both of you, that makes sense

[civic ocean]

What Glorious Disaster effectively does is let you put more mana into the Omega Cast to get Solar Ring AND Storm Ring once the cast expires.

You can only get offered this if you take Solar Ring, so do that. Very, very good on the Charon Axe, where you needn't pay any extra cost

[warped harness]

its a totally different activation, it activates very soon after your enhanced omega cast

charon proccing it is just crazy to me

[glad sphinx]

Love this!

[civic ocean]

Some of the builds are now a bit out of date so I will need to update them

It was a bit premature to write build guides when I feel like I change my mind about stuff in this game super often

Like I think almost every guide in that doc recommends Death except for Momus but actually I think Death is kinda poopy

[glad sphinx]

Momus + wave flourish has always been my go to build when attempting a new level of Fear. But I’ve never combined it with White Antler. Gonna give that a try.

[sour cape]

wiat what, how come sometimes blackened Fleece just has like a million dmg taken on it?

[civic ocean]

It's a riskier playstyle and it makes it a lot more fun for me personally

If you want, look up Hades 2 speedruns - Momus + Poseidon + Antler is the meta speedrun strategy atm

[glad sphinx]

Thanks!

[sour cape]

Theres no way I've taken 643 damage in Erebus and Oceanus 💀

[civic ocean]

Sometimes you take a million damage

[sour cape]

oh wait it counts the chaos 500

that makes sense 😆

[tall notch]

Antler, the only way to actually feel something when you are playing momus

[glad sphinx]

I’ve completely ignored Antler so far. Please remind me what it does?

[civic ocean]

Pan too TBH

Knife fighting Chronos to death with no special boons at 32 Fear was my favourite run of the year so far

[tall notch]

I thought pink aura was your favourite run of the year

[glad sphinx]

Is it the one where your damage increases when you’re down to 30% health?

[civic ocean]

as long as your hp is 30 or below, you have a 40% chance to deal critical damage.

So what you do is you turn on Huntress and Strength Arcanas and get your HP to under the thresholds of both Strength and Antler, then equip Antler and take as much armor and defenses that don't improve your health as you can

[ionic moon]

that's strength, the arcana card

antler is flat 30 HP or lower to get 40% crit chance

[glad sphinx]

Woah

[civic ocean]

You very quickly begin to crit for over 250 damage on over one third of your little staff shots

[glad sphinx]

Yeah that’s risky AF

[ionic moon]

it's high risk high reward, so naturally it's the speed runner meta

[glad sphinx]

Makes sense

[civic ocean]

2nd fave

Also Pink Aura literally keeps getting to Chronos and dying

[tall notch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1240870334731653160/image.png?ex=665356ce&is=6652054e&hm=fe187cc55a45d990181381505a88b79ae7db806d62da5f83e4b1a199d7b9808e&

I wouldn't play pink aura in a serious run ever but it's by far my favourite meme build. The theme is just perfect and it looks cool

[civic ocean]

Something that hurts it in that fight is, I am pretty sure, that when the huge pack of Hearthrobs hits something, the game actually slows down as all of the balls explode

I am pretty sure Chronos doesn't get slowed by this and you DO

In particular it can go off during the instakills and you just get stuck in place while the game tells you just how badly you messed up that Tempus

[tall notch]

It suffers from being a close range build that wants high uptime on the enemy in a fight that hates melee

[warped harness]

do you want to run heph with this as well? (avoiding the boon that gives max health based on your mana)

[ionic moon]

trusty shield and mint condition are very good complements, yes

[civic ocean]

Yes, the Pan Antler build I run starts Hephastus, and I recommend it for Momus as well

[celest swallow]

Mel, in canon while running Pink Aura™️ :I'M GONNA KEEP ON DANCING AT THE PINK PONY CLUB, IM GONNA KEEP ON DANCING DOWN IN WEST HOLLYWOOD~ 🎵

[civic ocean]

https://clips.twitch.tv/ShakingTubularAniseGOWSkull-sUcvQugKEVbeOv1m this is what I'm talking about, I can't dash sprint over to the safe zone because I can't input anything while the hearthrobs are blowing up on the tempus

[eager ivy]

does crystal figurine only work on the first guardian?

[civic ocean]

that's not the best example because I ALSO got bamboozled by the dark screen when Chronos channels the instakill being the same dark screen as when I channel the balls

[warped harness]

oo interesting, you have a lot of choices for boons with that too i feel, ignoring the attack and special boons to get the heph hera duo if you luck into them, or taking poseidon for just how simple he is at doing damage

200% is a really big modifier

[tall notch]

pink aura was simply not pink enough

[civic ocean]

I'm playing around with what the Fear would look like if I only took Arrogance I

I swear if they just made Blackened Fleece reduce your mana costs instead of increase the dmg

[tall notch]

It would be a strictly better Hecate keepsake wouldn't it

[civic ocean]

hmmge maybe

I knew I need more mana on the wheel for that Chronos fight

Or just Born Gain

I think with Born Gain there's a chance you actually prime your mana pool in that fight

[tall notch]

Just high roll mana cost reduction from Chaos

[civic ocean]

I think the run is meant to save almost every re-roll for Chaos specifically yeah

[tall notch]

Or do the Darren setup, Selene's moonwater with the upgrade that makes it regen mana

[warped harness]

i need someone to make a vid demonstrating all the axe tech so far

also does anyone else use the double dash attack tech

[civic ocean]

what's the one that makes you evade when it's up is that Dark side?

[tall notch]

Yeah I think so

[civic ocean]

I think that might actually be kinda cracked

[tall notch]

But that changes your special so idk if you can pink aura with it?

[civic ocean]

Nah I mean the "when this is ready you have evasion chance" path of stars perk

[tall notch]

Uhh I don't know what that is

I know Hermes has a speed thing when your hex is ready

[warped harness]

thats midnight oil, east is talking about how the selene hex upgrades have stuff like damage when uncharged or stuff like that

[civic ocean]

it's the other way around it's when the hex is NOT up

[turbid hull]

[civic ocean]

Moon Water and Wolf Howl are interesting PoS upgrades but they're not guaranteed to give the Imperv

Or even be offered

[turbid hull]

I'm not eager to datamine path of stars stuff

[civic ocean]

Wolf Howl would be kinda crazy if it kept the balls and made you imperv

It would solve a lot of the build's problems

[ionic moon]

is it even worth the effort? selene's gotta be near top of SGG's list to rework

[turbid hull]

I like numbers too much to not want to do it

[ionic moon]

lol i respect that

[civic ocean]

Thinking about how I just only used Artificer once that run

sheesh

[eager ivy]

does Crystal Figurine only work with 1 guardian or can I keep it through the whole run?

[civic ocean]

I don't remember I think it's just one

[ionic moon]

what do you think of replacing champions with artificer? less rerolls overall but more boons

not as a build, i mean as changing how they work

[sour cape]

Artificer sounds great

[civic ocean]

It depends on what you're trying to accomplish and what you have

[molten gull]

Is there an undisputed strongest build right now?

[warped harness]

poseidon momus with the double shot hammer

even without

double shot does double your damage though its pretty nice

[tame vapor]

there is a pretty stong aspect of artemis hearthrob build

[civic ocean]

If I'm playing Pink Aura Mel Torches, a problem that is uniquely solved by taking Aph Special on an extremely efficient damage source is that you don't really need early damage - but the hard part about the build is building the combo while not priming away too much mana in the lategame for the 40 cost specials to do their thing without OOMing you.

So I wouldn't cut 10 rerolls or being able to reroll boons, because I would inevitably fail to get Exceptional Talent going. Instead I would cut something like Origination and Death, because it's incredibly inconsistent for me to get Dazed from Apollo because the 3 boons you need for his legendary never give Dazed

[tame vapor]

is a preview from mynt

of the aura build

[spare kite]

Copy link not copy message link

[tame vapor]

frick

[turbid hull]

make sure to open the image/media first

[tame vapor]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

this should work

[civic ocean]

Note that this is not actually Aspect of Artemis, those are the Mel Torches, and that build is definitely super risky at 32+

[tame vapor]

i know

[tame vapor]

i was reffering to this

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml# (Easy)Aspect of Momus + Poseidon is generally considered the most powerful, consistent build in the game atm

[tame vapor]

should i go apollo attack or aph attack with skull of medea?

[ionic moon]

sorry i mixed up the names, i was speculating on updates to the design/layout of the actual altar of ashes. like if artificer moved to that bottom left corner (replacing Seer, not champions). same 0-cost unlock req.

i mostly just think from a gameplay perspective it feels pretty bad when you're doing "lategame" runs (i.e. past night 100 let's say) and you still have to see lots of ash and psyche unless you take artificer which is a big opportunity cost.

[sour cape]

Just pray and no reroll 😎

Like if you go for Cast build and cant get storm ring 💀

[civic ocean]

I think Artificer is uniquely good on any weapon aspects that do very well at dealing early game damage. It's probably under-explored as an Arcana, mostly becuase the meta at the moment is very build-centric because Forsaking and the 3 god pool makes it pretty easy to target the combos that you want.

A big reason I only play Artificer on 1/5 weapons is that Artificer shouldn't ever really be used until you have your gods that you need for the run locked in, otherwise it will go off the board sometimes and give you Hestia when you are trying to do Apollo+Dem+Zeus on Charon, for instance. Also, some builds, like Momus, simply don't care at all for centaur hearts and mana jars, so Artificer is turning an onion into an onion for them roughly half the time.

Actually @turbid hull that would be a fun question to look into in the data - what are the % chances for each Major Find to be rolled by Artificer?

[turbid hull]

what's artificer

oh, arcana card

[civic ocean]

6 grasp Arcana - 3 times this night, you may re-roll one minor find into a major find

Anecdotally it feels like Artificer chooses Gold, Hearts, and Mana more than anything else.

[sour cape]

Momus still likes hearts imo

get more possible healing with the omega special

[turbid hull]

I have no clue then, may take a look later

[bronze lion]

Just unlocked skulls. These seem like a hard one to figure out

[tame vapor]

they are very good

at least its aspects

[ocean quail]

They are FUN, the gameplay loop is very satisfying.

[tame vapor]

i like it cuz the special makes me feel like i have two dashes agasin

[ocean quail]

infinite dashes

[bronze lion]

The omega attack needs to be worked around. Gotta pair it with casts to get it to hit consistent

[sour cape]

They do got a lotta resource managing

[bronze lion]

The special works well with "reloading"

[sour cape]

Yea dash through and pick em up

[tame vapor]

i reccomend using a heatthrob build

[turbid hull]

Uguuuh I hate when maths are involved in Charon's well

[sour cape]

Math?

[turbid hull]

So Price of Midas

The thing that lets you get some gold but you need to pay HP

It goes like this

You're paying between 10 and 30 Life, and then, you get between 1.1 and 1.8 times what you paid in Gold Crowns

[ocean quail]

Im stuck with 8 fear with Medea, I tried running Zeus and Heph and I clear easy but die to Chronos 100 to 0, what else should I try?

[sour cape]

Can always try Zeus cast build

[ocean quail]

For cast stuff I go Charon Apollo lol

[tame vapor]

idk if it works all the way up to 8 fear but i really liked aphrodite apollo build

[sour cape]

Yea but Zeus works for everyone else

[turbid hull]

Also, seems like VoD doesn't change the cost of Price of Midas

[ocean quail]

Is there any benefit for picking the skull for omega cast build?

[sour cape]

Persephone yes, but its more that Cast can ignore the weapon

Also special for repositioning is nice

[ocean quail]

Meh, I'd like the special to do the heavy lifting

[ionic moon]

persephone is still good for that, just ignore the glory mechanic

[warped harness]

is price of midas the charon shop item that gives you gold at the cost of health?

[spare kite]

Yeah

[turbid hull]

Yes

[ocean quail]

Isn't that the only benefit of persephone? or it adss damage and I missed it

[turbid hull]

VoD specifically says only the Gold Crown cost is increased

[warped harness]

ic

[ionic moon]

it also buffs all omega damage by 30% passively

[sour cape]

It adds omega dmg

[ionic moon]

(at max level)

the skull and torch aspects benefit a lot from upgrading

[ocean quail]

Oh alright, my power fantasy is normal special spam though lol

[sour cape]

Hmmmm Momus?

[turbid hull]

40% with Rank VI

[sour cape]

Skull nornal special spam is pretty bad, you arent invincible

[ionic moon]

oh, well that's what medea is for

[turbid hull]

Persephone Aspect is the only aspect with non linear progression in terms of stats

[ocean quail]

Don't know the best gods for medea though

[sour cape]

Non linear?

[warped harness]

i wonder if the 4th aspect for the skull will be omega attack focused

[sour cape]

Oh the last level is worth more?

[turbid hull]

It goes +10% / +15% / +20% / +25% / +30% / +40%

[sour cape]

dang 40%

[turbid hull]

wait no nvm hold on I thought in boon lol, one sec

there

[sour cape]

How much dmg is crit? 3x?

[ionic moon]

can i get a link to your spreadsheet?

[turbid hull]

3x yeah, or +200%

[sour cape]

Is that multiplicative?

[turbid hull]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16jTOWHeBRMTRoui75dLP0oU0tGQC-b0QO3KEWGp3YZI/edit?usp=sharing

[turbid hull]

No clue, I did not investigate Crits yet

[warped harness]

do you think that heph/aphro's duo boon applies before damage dealt and heals you if you have the shield from heph's shield boon

[turbid hull]

I don't know

[zenith bolt]

critical hits are multiplicative

[ionic moon]

i actually like the idea of all weapon aspect level VI giving a non-linear jump in power, would make the heph legendary more worth

[turbid hull]

well sadly it's only one that is non-linear for aspects

[zenith bolt]

and i believe crits apply last in damage calc

[celest swallow]

aphro attack/special with dem boons on cast and passion dash, run with antler and show no fear, make the game fear you

[warped harness]

ik that it applies before the vow that makes you take more damage from the first attack of an encounter

[zenith bolt]

vow of suffering only works if you actually take damage

[ionic moon]

yeah they'd have to rebalance, same goes for keepsake level IV and the cherished heirloom duo

[warped harness]

but i dont know if it would heal you if you had non max health but you had shield

[sour cape]

Thats pretty good value for Than then hmmm

[zenith bolt]

crits are a bigger damage boost than most single damage boosts, but that's why they're hard to acquire (or require specific circumstances to activate)

artemis and death dont give you that much crit chance, thanatos requires you avoid taking damage, and white antler requires you to sit at <= 30 HP

[sour cape]

Yea

All pretty rough to activate

[spare kite]

Global crit is also a lot more common here

[sour cape]

Than at least charges up fast with Cast

[turbid hull]

Critical hits are only *3 though

[warped harness]

THEYRE TRIPLE DAMAGE?

[zenith bolt]

yeah

[sour cape]

yea

Its a lotta dmg 👀👀

[warped harness]

that explains why my than aspect zeus was doing so much

[sour cape]

Since multiplicative x3 👀👀

[zenith bolt]

hence, very big damage boost (because they apply after other damage boosts, so it's just your normal hit damage * 3)

[warped harness]

yeah no wonder antler is so crazy

[sour cape]

Yea makes you do tons of dmg

[zenith bolt]

yeah antler is like 80% more dps when active

[sour cape]

Does Than Omega Cast with Demeter count as hits?

[warped harness]

that + strength would be insane

[celest swallow]

(not even a joke, it's a lot of fun and everything go boom)

[zenith bolt]

not sure

[turbid hull]

Crit is mostly applied at the end yeah

[zenith bolt]

doubt bc demeter's cast effects apply on regular cast too

[sour cape]

Hmmm

[warped harness]

speaking of strength, is it taken with the arcana card that gives you extra health + frinos?

[zenith bolt]

i think apollo cast only counts to than like twice or smth? i forget
haven't tried zeus

[turbid hull]

almostFinalDamage = (round(baseDamage * multipliers) + additive) * 3 (for crits)

[sour cape]

Zeus counts

it charges up Than faaast

[zenith bolt]

that + white antler and taking damage to 30 is a strategy i've seen

so you activate strength and antler at the same time

[warped harness]

thats what i was thinking since its a lot safer early

[sour cape]

Yea then you unstoppable 👀👀

[warped harness]

then you just need to avoid the centaur

[sour cape]

Also stacking armor

since thats not hp

[warped harness]

the centaur and the wayward son arcanas

[sour cape]

Well mostly trusty shield 😔

[warped harness]

ye armor stacking

[zenith bolt]

speedrun saves have centaur not unlocked specifically to avoid it

[turbid hull]

Basically:

• game calculates whether or not your hit is a critical, based on your Critical Chance and a random rolled number
• game calculates your damage amount, regardless of criticals, by multiplying your base damage with all multiplicative effects in place, then adding all additive effects in place
• if your hit is a critical, multiply this amount by 3

[karmic gust]

Glorious disaster and double strike go so hard

[turbid hull]

and then various checks are done such as the minimum damage per hit thing from I don't remember which god

[zenith bolt]

air quality is from zeus

[karmic gust]

Just finished a Charon run man was that fun

[sour cape]

dang air quality no good for crits

[turbid hull]

Yeah, Air Quality is checked after critical is applied

[zenith bolt]

mfw my 13 damage crit goes to 39 instead of 90

[warped harness]

they should give us 57 leaf clover from risk of rain 2 🙏

[sour cape]

AQ also makes upgrading those cyclone poor value

[zenith bolt]

aq makes upgrading a lot of things not worth

e.g. solar ring

[sour cape]

Yea

[turbid hull]

This game is so much funnier to datamine than any other game I datamined.

[warped harness]

wait

[sour cape]

But you wanna upgrade them if dont get AQ

[warped harness]

solar ring aq is insane i never thought of that

[sour cape]

since the upgrades are good value without AQ 💀💀

Yea Solar Ring + Demeter Cyclone

[zenith bolt]

and it actually has good synergy bc glorious disaster and apollo has air boons

[warped harness]

ballin

[sour cape]

and glorious disaster is op

[warped harness]

it really is

[zenith bolt]

well yeah bc in most cases it's tripling your omega cast damage

[warped harness]

especially on charon builds

[sour cape]

But only problem is all your mana boons suck if you doing Demeter, Apollo, Zeus

[zenith bolt]

chaos my goat... save me...
or silver wheel exists ig

[warped harness]

huh i just thought about it theres a 5 hit chain on the daggers that does 10 damage that would jump to 30 per hit with zeus AQ

[eager ivy]

is there an arcana setup thats good for general runs?

[zenith bolt]

charon is not very magick intensive bc you're only dropping the nuke like twice in a room, so silver wheel is probably fine

[sour cape]

I need tk level silver wheel

But then you are missing Blackened Fleece

Which casts dont have a lotta buffs

[turbid hull]

damageFloorTraitData = HasHeroTraitValue("ActivatedDamageFloor")
if damageFloorTraitData and attacker and attacker == CurrentRun.Hero:
    if IsGameStateEligible(CurrentRun, damageFloorTraitData.ActivationRequirements):
        if triggerArgs.DamageAmount > 0 and triggerArgs.DamageAmount < damageFloorTraitData.ActivatedDamageFloor:
            triggerArgs.DamageAmount = damageFloorTraitData.ActivatedDamageFloor```
Basically a python equivalent to the Air Quality check

[warped harness]

silver wheel is so awesome thank you auntie hecate

[zenith bolt]

the dps uptime you gain from actually having magick > 40% more damage on a cast you can never use

[sour cape]

Thats true

[turbid hull]

Silver Wheel is also non linear for level 4 👀

Jumps to 3000 Magick instead of expected 2500

[sour cape]

Not having magick is suffering

[zenith bolt]

1000 -> 1500 -> 2000 -> 3000
though rank 4 keepsakes are exclusive to that one duo

[warped harness]

my goat

[turbid hull]

Only non linear keepsake

[warped harness]

i with the heph legendary was stronger

[sour cape]

Can you get away with activating Hecate in Fields?

[turbid hull]

There are two Arcana Cards that are non linear, too

[sour cape]

Or only at Tartarus?

[zenith bolt]

unless you're absolutely draining all your magick constantly, yeah

[warped harness]

all that work for a 10% damage bonus to something like blackened fleece

[zenith bolt]

heph legendary is for aspects, not keepsakes

[sour cape]

I guess the play is Apollo-Embryo-Hecate

[turbid hull]

The Unseen is restoring 2 / 3 / 4 / 6 Magick every 1 Sec

[zenith bolt]

the real buff is to make unseen 4 / 6 / 8 / 12

[sour cape]

Unseen at 8 is pretty good 👀

[zenith bolt]

as-is, dropping 5 grasp on 4/s is quite awful

[warped harness]

we have rank 4 of the arcanas? is there any way to activate them (crystaline figure?)

[ionic moon]

they have to walk a line between unseen being useless and unseen making all Gain boons pointless

[turbid hull]

and The Swift Runner is making the sprint 5% / 7.5% / 10% / 11.25% faster

[zenith bolt]

rank 4 crystalline figure or from circe's lapis lazuli insight

[sour cape]

I think 8s more fair, taking Unseen woild mean prob cant take Boatman

[warped harness]

that is depressing

[zenith bolt]

every sprint speed buff had their numbers reduced when sprint got buffed, but should be the same or better than they were pre-numbers dropping

[sour cape]

and limiting rerolls

[zenith bolt]

unseen at 6 would be fair i think

[tall notch]

Let's be real swift runner isn't being taken for that speed after the patch

[sour cape]

How much is Hestias gain?

[zenith bolt]

i think hestia's is base 7

[sour cape]

Oh

[zenith bolt]

but you can upgrade gains and they can be higher rarity, so

[sour cape]

True

[warped harness]

there was a patch recently?

[sour cape]

does cost 20% hp

[turbid hull]

7 / 10 / 13 / 16 (common / rare / epic / heroic)

[zenith bolt]

the first major patch buffed the base sprint speed and made swift runner make dashing immediate

[warped harness]

ah

[turbid hull]

Hestia's Gain has one of the weirdest multiplier ranges, in order to keep the numbers integers

[warped harness]

isnt the rare version of the scorch pop like 63%

[zenith bolt]

bc people kept complaining about dashing ig (i never noticed a problem)

[sour cape]

Unseen at 4/s too crappy 😭

[turbid hull]

what's scorch pop

[zenith bolt]

fire extinguisher i assume

[warped harness]

^

[turbid hull]

50 / 62.5 / 75 / 87.5

[warped harness]

ough

[zenith bolt]

when an enemy has 300 or more scorch, they lose all their scorch and take a % of the scorch they had as damage

[tired fulcrum]

When not even base 100 at heroic

[warped harness]

it feels awful tbh

[zenith bolt]

heroic +2 just to not be losing damage, incredible

[turbid hull]

Yeah, but you deal all the damage instantly

[merry flint]

getting stunlocked by the vacuums in trial of haste 😭

[zenith bolt]

what is heph attack base time/upgrades?

[zenith bolt]

average mourning fields

[turbid hull]

12 10 8 6 for rarities iirc

[zenith bolt]

hmm

[tired fulcrum]

Poseidon does that and its more instant

[turbid hull]

goes down to 2 sec at best iirc?

[warped harness]

i thought one of the bases was 20

[tired fulcrum]

Special

[turbid hull]

specials is 20 18 16 14

[warped harness]

ahh m bad

[pulsar canopy]

does fire damage do more if you hit a bunch of times quickly, like poison/wine did in hades 1?

[zenith bolt]

i should get that boons in training ground mod just to test if heph attack gets huntress benefit

[turbid hull]

can you share said mod?

[zenith bolt]

no, scorch is always a fixed 40 dps unless you get hestia's legendary, which makes it 80

[warped harness]

not really, its the same damage but it does it for longer

[tired fulcrum]

No, the dps stays at 40

[zenith bolt]

ask @tired fulcrum i think they've sent clips w/ it

[tired fulcrum]

Uh pony menu on nexus

[turbid hull]

Scorch is 40 damage per second, with 6 ticks of damage per second

[pulsar canopy]

so is percentage based stuff better for fast low damage weapons? or like, does anyone give flat damage increases to each shot?

[turbid hull]

Ticks per second don't matter when it comes to actual damage

[turbid hull]

will give it a look later thx

[tame vapor]

holy crap antler is so good

[zenith bolt]

40 damage across 6 ticks per second = ~6.66 damage per tick
so AQ is ~4.5x damage on scorch?

[sour cape]

Flat dmg would be better for fast low dmg weapons

[warped harness]

(daggers)

[zenith bolt]

wait im thinking too hard on it
6 ticks of 30 = 240 damage so it's 6x bleh

[turbid hull]

Does AQ even apply to Scorch?

[tired fulcrum]

And by flat damage we mean poseidon

[zenith bolt]

it does for some ungodly reason

[turbid hull]

Interesting.

[celest swallow]

just strongly hoping they end up adding toggle options for the 0 grasp cards even when they're eligible to activate so that i don't have to be tempted to have progress all on a shared save file that intentionally skips centaur 🙏

[warped harness]

i think so its like half of east's builds /j

[zenith bolt]

it's like the only way to make scorch good

[pulsar canopy]

so that basically makes poseidon the optimal choice?

[sour cape]

Yes

[tired fulcrum]

Yeah

[turbid hull]

Soon done on Charon

[zenith bolt]

and it's probably a bug given it has antisynergy with like half of hestia's boons according to east

[pulsar canopy]

cool hes pretty groovy and i need to upgrade his charm anyway

[turbid hull]

mf has some weird stuff istg

[sour cape]

For like Staff and Daggers

[warped harness]

for the rest of the weapons i think its hera

[pulsar canopy]

im gonna use it for the torch omega special

[warped harness]

hera, aphro, zeus in a few select cases

[pulsar canopy]

is hera actually better than aphrodite?

[zenith bolt]

hera dem is the ideal core for most weapons i think

[warped harness]

^

[zenith bolt]

hard to beat proper upbringing, coarse grit, hitch and freeze effects, etc.

[warped harness]

aphro is good but has worse synergies and her attacks dont apply a debuff

though demeter can apply 2 on cast activating origination

[zenith bolt]

hera also has the best magick regen boon in the game

[pulsar canopy]

hmm maybe ill try hera then instead of poseidon for the torches. ill use poseidon when i get the twin blades

[warped harness]

omega torches you said right

[zenith bolt]

oh hera dem is the keepsake duo too LOL

[turbid hull]

Finally done on Charon

[zenith bolt]

• if you get heph then you have like the ideal setup

[turbid hull]

VoD II Kiss of Styx costs 360 gold

[warped harness]

hera just gives a lot of room clear and her own boons have a good enough dmg multiplier for bosses, and dem/heph make the run super cozy

[eager ivy]

isnt Art's aspect busted? with Aphrodite and Hera you can just spam omega attacks and delete everything

[civic ocean]

Echo YOU looked this up for me

[turbid hull]

I forgor

[civic ocean]

Kek

[turbid hull]

next things on the list are selene boons and path of stars nodes

see you in two years

[timber pawn]

Idk if the absolute number of path of star nodes changes per run but the path changes even with the same Selene power

[tall notch]

It took me a moment to realise who Echo is. I always read that username as "e chocolat"

[turbid hull]

I know, that's what scares me, but for now I'm just gonna focus on the nodes themselves and not how they are linked to each other

[rain hazel]

I dont understand Hera's Born Again. Does it just prime 10 mana then when I run out only restore 10?

[tall notch]

It regens your mana to full when you run out and primes 10

[split inlet]

Primes 10, restores all

[turbid hull]

Yeah, my original username was Echo, but when I realized it wasn't very original I decided to change it, but still keep the Echo part. Saw a chocolate bar on the table and said to myself "hey, if I fuse Echo and chocolat (french word for chocolate) it makes Echocolat and it's funi!!!!!!" and so Echocolat was born. Worst part is that I actually don't like chocolate

[warped harness]

is it me or is the miniboss that shoots little thorns in erebus a little bit much

[silent crow]

its very slow
to kill i mean

[warped harness]

i was gonna say 😭

[silent crow]

im not a huge fan of the snare it has

[warped harness]

tons of armor and with vow of fury youre forced to run around and poke it when its on its second of downtime

[tall notch]

If you don't like chocolate, what was it doing on your table? 🤔

[rain hazel]

@tall notch @split inlet
so if I have 130 mana after 13 times I have no mana?

[silent crow]

thats how the wholr of erebus feels to me on high fear

[turbid hull]

Imagine living alone

[silent crow]

so many enemies that give you no time to do anything

[tall notch]

Yeah but only for that room. The primes reset as you go to a diff location

[rain hazel]

Hm, not sure about it then

[warped harness]

erebus sucks man

[split inlet]

Yeah if you somehow blow through like 700 mana in a room lol

[merry flint]

130+120+110+100+...+20+10

and it resets every room

[warped harness]

the shadow spiller room by comparison is insanely easy because you can just dash and avoid all the damage while getting hits in

[tall notch]

If you manage to spend this much mana on a room there's something off about your build

[rain hazel]

I feel like I go through a lot of mana in bosses 😅

[merry flint]

shadow spiller mini boss needs less hitbox

[split inlet]

If you get it as a Rare or get some levels onto it, it's insane

[turbid hull]

Sorry bot mb I won't do it again 🙏

[warped harness]

like its attacks need to be smaller?

[merry flint]

yeah

shouldn't be the case where i stand at the edge of shadow and get clipped

[turbid hull]

So uh. Dark Side's duration is dependant on weapons?

[tired fulcrum]

Youre supposed to go behind it

[warped harness]

im sorry what

[tired fulcrum]

Its what

[merry flint]

never felt reliable

[warped harness]

thats gotta be top 10 wierdest things youve datamined

[split inlet]

I don't like the common version (I often like Explsoive Ambush from Lim/Oros), but otherwise it's pretty good

[silent crow]

shadow spiller swipe feels too subtle

[turbid hull]

Okay, so, it's not dependant on weapons, but the time value itself is defined in the weapon file. All weapons have it at 5.0 Sec.

[warped harness]

theres barely any tell but really i just get into a rythym and take no damage in that room

[merry flint]

and idk i don't like boss shadow to just...delete half of the playable area every alternate swing?

[tall notch]

Iframe the shadow spiller thing

[warped harness]

so it can vary by weapon but right now its all the same value

[silent crow]

yoo upgradeable hexes per weapon incoming

[turbid hull]

No, it's defined in the weapon file, but it's one value for all weapons

[tired fulcrum]

Its wind up is super long and it doesnt turn around if you wait a little bit then dash through

[silent crow]

aww

[split inlet]

But gives them room later on to make it change based on Aspect maybe?

[turbid hull]

All weapons inherit the same "base stuff" which has it set to 5.0

[warped harness]

it'd be cool if you got artemis after selene and you got a special boon offer from them of some kind

like imagine if you got a selene arty duo from it

[split inlet]

I'd really like a duo with Arti and Apollo and Hermes

[turbid hull]

Hexes can't be of any rarity right

Only the nodes of the Path of Stars

[split inlet]

Yeah, that's right

[warped harness]

sorta? theres no actual rarity but theres the moon phases yea

is there rarity code for them in there?

[turbid hull]

Moon Phases are totally random though no? They're not set for each

[warped harness]

they are completely random yeah

[turbid hull]

No. Just wanted to make sure for the layout of my spreadsheet

[tall notch]

They're random from what we know

[warped harness]

any hex can have any moon phase afaik

[tall notch]

But if you find any crazy moon code that dedicated both the hexes' moon phases and Hecate's abilities that night that would be wild

There's nothing indicating that but the two feel linked somehow

[turbid hull]

watch Dark Side have 32% odds of being no phase and 34% odds of being full phase for some reason

[warped harness]

that would be evil

imagine if some were heavily biasdd to be full moon or crescent moon tier

[turbid hull]

That's something Nintendo would put in TOTK.

[warped harness]

like 45 10 45 for each phase

i dont even think that would work logistically but it would be funny

[tame vapor]

broo 4 of my testaments are from eris ( i heavily dislike the surface)

[turbid hull]

oh. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1244017340354658506/image.png?ex=665394ee&is=6652436e&hm=6fed17369ea1132bb49c8f609528075483cd497d47e9145a3153e7ff12d22040&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=316&height=133

[warped harness]

what's that

[warped harness]

i dont think anyone likes the surface with fear generally

[turbid hull]

The number of Boons for Selene in the compendium

[warped harness]

oh yeah 💀

[turbid hull]

[warped harness]

i imagine thats just a symptom of how hex boons actually apply their bonuses

[tame vapor]

yeah, but i gotta do it cuz i want to max out momus

[turbid hull]

Yeah, both Hexes and Path of Stars nodes are in there

[warped harness]

it gets very cluttered

[turbid hull]

At least all Hexes are at the end

[tame vapor]

waht aspect do you use for the pink aura build

[warped harness]

mel

[tame vapor]

thx

[turbid hull]

8 Hexes... Which means... ~75 Path of Stars nodes

[warped harness]

idk if i reccomended it bc polyphemus is such a pain with any melee and you need a lot of aphro and some apollo to make pink aura shine

[tame vapor]

im doing the only one that isnt eris

[warped harness]

i need to make a guide for the surface start tbh

[karmic gust]

i think an axe hestia build would work really well if you can get that boon that activates scorch everytime there enough, omega attack should apply it fast wnough so that you get a ton of scorch off constantly

[warped harness]

its so formulaic i could just spam it and figure it out

[rain hazel]

Has anyone used Spiteful Strength? Seems like id have to have a reliable way to remove boons from my Attacks

[warped harness]

or maybe its just in the code

[karmic gust]

or just get lucky and find it in oceanus :')

[civic ocean]

This is usually less damage overall than just taking a damage% boon and just hitting with the omega attack unfortunately

[warped harness]

very good you just need to avoid the attack boons and pray it comes early, the requirements arent hard thouvh

[karmic gust]

dang, even for ad clear? natural gas could also go pretty hard

[timber pawn]

I won a 32 run with it. You can just kinda focus on defensive boons until it shows up which can be nice for higher fear

[civic ocean]

Sometimes you can even win when it doesn't show up

[warped harness]

which heph provides you with anyways

[civic ocean]

:|

[turbid hull]

Seems like Lunar Ray does 40 damage per hit, so it would be 10 hits per second during 3 Sec.

[tired fulcrum]

By the time you apply 300 scorch most ads are dead or get overkilled so its wasted

[warped harness]

air quality scorch needs to stay because it checks out scientifically

[zenith bolt]

aq lunar ray real?

[rain hazel]

I got it right before cerberus for the first time

[turbid hull]

[zenith bolt]

wait i didnt see 40 dmg a hit xd

[civic ocean]

So 400 damage per second?

[turbid hull]

Yes, 1200 damage total

[warped harness]

40 per hit would mean it already passes the aq threshhold

[turbid hull]

That was the joke I believe

[civic ocean]

I know there's a path of stars upgrade where it takes on the property of your attack boon though

[zenith bolt]

no theres no joke im just a dumbass actually 😭

[warped harness]

:(

[civic ocean]

So if you HAD aq scorch it would apply an absurd amount of it

Or Poseidon waves

[zenith bolt]

pos lunar ray, insane

[warped harness]

itd be insane if lunar ray recieved boon bonuses

[stable sable]

man torches really feel like they do no damage as soon as you activate the extra enemy health fear

[warped harness]

you get poseidon on the ray and you just have those water jets that precision cut steel

[turbid hull]

well with the path of stars upgrade that makes it inherit your attack boon...

Oh, wait, that's not it

It makes the Attack you do during the Hex inherit the Attack Boons effects

nevermind

I was not looking at the correct one https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1244021149587869706/image.png?ex=6653987a&is=665246fa&hm=89bb413131f25f8c1dc351d2eed19355c436448c1311597b1e634dffb9f81493&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=687&height=171

[warped harness]

its also only on the dark side one too

😔

i need someone to mod that

i want my pressure washer

[spare kite]

Pretty sure both have it?
Saw it the other day

[zenith bolt]

putting in 15 path of stars upgrades so that dark side can do less dps than not using it

[warped harness]

lunar ray inheriting your attack boon?

[turbid hull]

Scorch AQ 🔥

[warped harness]

so true

actually what is hestias second element, earth?

[turbid hull]

Hestia is only Fire

[warped harness]

most gods have 2 elements i think, she might just be fire though

[blissful wren]

and pos is almost all water if not entirely

[warped harness]

i think pos is water only and zeus is air only too 😔

[turbid hull]

Only Water for Pos too

[warped harness]

is hera only earth?

[civic ocean]

Zeus Apollo Aph Hermes Artemis Narcissus Chaos and random rooms in Ephyra give Air

[turbid hull]

I didn't check Zeus yet, but Hera is only Earth

[civic ocean]

The main 8 are a wheel

Zeus is air
Apollo air fire
Hestia fire
Heph fire earth
Hera earth
Demeter earth water
Posi water
Aph water air

[turbid hull]

Nice

[karmic gust]

what would be a good mel axe build? i wanna try focusing on using axe attack instead of omega

i think aphro would be good dmg but kinda boring

[tame vapor]

mynt posted an emoji version lemme see if i can find it

[warped harness]

@karmic gust get hammers and apollo

[karmic gust]

oh right that one that makes you only do final attack + double hit on final

[warped harness]

mel axe is really just for the big chop

so get choppin

[split inlet]

blitz is really strong on axe in all it's versions

just cause you can instantly proc it in most builds

[tender flint]

Have a very fun build going with aspect of medea with zues on attack and pos on special get their duo boon aq and some other zues and your flying

[silent crow]

is big chop legit ik its slow but that damagze

[tender flint]

^ want to know also

[warped harness]

its a lot a lot of damage, theres a chaos trial that's a good demo of it

[tender flint]

Ooh

[rain hazel]

I finally killed him...

[warped harness]

is it good? maybe not but its insanely fun

[tender flint]

Haven't done the chaos trials yet

[tender flint]

Gj first time what night you on

[tame vapor]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[split inlet]

It's probably really good with Mel aspect
Get that and maybe the hammer to increase the attack speed too?

[tender flint]

Probably

[warped harness]

i was spamming the chaos trials when grinding up my familliars

[tender flint]

Oh I just kinda played so much that I got a crap ton of materials overall

[silent crow]

i think base atk combo on axe is bad tho but udk

[tender flint]

A lot like Arthur in hades 1 really slow big dmg but I didn't like it

[warped harness]

base atk is mixed

[rain hazel]

33 💀

[silent crow]

it feels better than arthur but the dmg is much worse

[warped harness]

good for stun but the damage is kinda lacking

[turbid hull]

Why do some Path of stars nodes have Heroic rarity multipliers

[tender flint]

oh bro thats great

[silent crow]

yeahh like u would thinkt he 3rd hit would be at least 200

[tender flint]

took me up to night 53 i believe I dont get why people compare its a rouglike it really just depends how fast you learn

[tender flint]

no clue feels random might just be on moon cycle when selecting boon

[rain hazel]

I felt like I shoulda got it at like 20. Think I was just overthinking his patterns. I played a lot of Hades 1 though.

[turbid hull]

Okay, so the "Sublime" Nodes are considered legendary

it also has a hidden synergy with Apollo Attack boon, making it twice large. (for the one that makes beam inherit attack boon effects)

[warped harness]

id take power out of the last hit to make the first 2 feel better tbh

[silent crow]

i like the backended idea but its just weak in general

mel aspect should also just make the whole weapon faster instead of just endlag

[warped harness]

kind of the issue the dagger attack has, but thats compensated by the special

[silent crow]

i think dagger atk is pretty good in general tho

[turbid hull]

I found the list, for each Hex, of all Path of Stars nodes that can spawn.

[civic ocean]

Just a heads up that the initial hit that applies Blitz cannot proc blitz, so you have to hit them at least twice to get blitz

[split inlet]

yeah

but like, boop, and boop, and it pops

[turbid hull]

And I think I found the 4 types of structure the Path of Stars can be in

[civic ocean]

It gets even better on the Special, as you get better at working the anim cancelling combos I think

[civic ocean]

Are they random or do they correlate at all to any moon phases

[turbid hull]

They are unrelated to the moon phases

[silent crow]

can you datamime weapon frame data or does that already exist

[white steppe]

@civic ocean im trying to do the momus poseidon glass cannon 32 fear build you made, im curious if you dont see double moonshot in erebus do you just pull the plug on the run

[warped harness]

it is i really like it, but you cant get the finisher out v often in encounters or against hecate

[rain hazel]

You guys use base staff or Circe staff?

[turbid hull]

could probably do it... later

[warped harness]

momus 🦾

[silent crow]

i can get the finisher out p often if i really want to

[civic ocean]

Nope you proceed as normal you don't really need the hammer though it is a big help - just Antler + Poseidon + Huntress + Strength is plenty dmg

Throw in Demeter and slip for Origination and you're cooking

[silent crow]

but i often dont need it unless i have that one hammer, and when i do have the hammer the finisher just 1shots everything anyway so its worth the effort

[white steppe]

how does strength work when you're 30 hp base btw, do you just chill at 10 hp lul

[turbid hull]

Is there anything that can increase the level of Path of Stars nodes somehow?

[civic ocean]

I usually take Frinos so I'm 70 base

[white steppe]

so you tank for a bit for antler?

[civic ocean]

Usually yes

[white steppe]

or does it just kinda happen organically

[civic ocean]

Usually yes

[rain hazel]

Also is there any good Fear recommendations for starting out?

[civic ocean]

Depends on what you want to do

[silent crow]

7min deadlines a good one

[civic ocean]

The best way to start out if you want to get good at 32 is to take 7 min deadline and 40% faster enemies asap so you get used to playing with them

[silent crow]

then i reccommend upping enemy speed to 40% and trying to get used to that

[warped harness]

this is what im doing it SUCKS i HATE CHARON

(also it gets you the 8 fear statue pretty easily)

[round shell]

is there a channel where i can embed?

i want to upload some clips

[proven orbit]

Still have to switch to 40% speed overdrive. Cerberus and chronos will drive me up the wall with that 💀

[warped harness]

post it in another server and link

[civic ocean]

Then Forsaking, Arrogance II, Destitution II, Scars II, and Wandering II are next to work your way up

[warped harness]

wait are you the yter CrabBar?

[proven orbit]

Mayhaps

[warped harness]

i love your vids dude

[strong granite]

I can't pause the Chronos battle. What if I need to get up to use the bathroom or walk my pets?

[civic ocean]

Alt tab

F10 works as well iirc

[rain hazel]

Man thats the one thing I dont miss from using Heat is the time limit, guess im going to have to do it again now 😢

[warped harness]

i like the time limit for how it paces a run

[proven orbit]

report being unable to pause while at that

[warped harness]

but its awful in erebus

[rain hazel]

Its mainly that it keeps going after the fights or like in chaos rooms

[turbid hull]

Hmmmm, a lot of Path of Stars nodes have unused Rarity data that I won't bother putting on my sheet for obvious reasons 🙂

[civic ocean]

Get used to pausing in front of doors to make decisions

[warped harness]

get used to screenshotting hades 2 while youre on the surface and using the eye bats then pasting your screenshot into ms paint to plan your runs in ephyra

[civic ocean]

Yeah or just be fast

[warped harness]

while paused of course

[civic ocean]

That's like super duper being changed tho

[warped harness]

thank god

[blissful wren]

fr, the bats should pause time, i open it up in ms paint as of now

[proven orbit]

Sounds like steam screenshot into overlay should work fine

Especially since pressing shift tab pauses the game for whatever reason

Has got to be intentional 🤔

[warped harness]

overlay?

[civic ocean]

Steam overlay

[warped harness]

you can view screenshots there? i didnt know

[proven orbit]

Ye, a lot of other things in fact, like guides and notes

[warped harness]

oh well ik abt the guides

[proven orbit]

Note which boons you have deleted with the vow

[warped harness]

thats handy

[white steppe]

does the chaos chamber exit life restore boon work w vow of scars?

[warped harness]

but also depressing potentially

[civic ocean]

it works 25 50 and 100% worse

[tall notch]

Have you heard of the pencil meta?

[white steppe]

right

[proven orbit]

Would be rather awkward if top play spends more time on pause screen than in the game, yeah

[proven orbit]

Pencils? What is this, 1970?

[tall notch]

Literally 1970

[rain hazel]

OK yeah 7min is rough...

[turbid hull]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1244030328067325972/image.png?ex=6653a107&is=66524f87&hm=e37c7bfaff99202ce4a46ad227c5db619460843e32c16ed831e436dcd200557b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1115&height=662 how is this layout?

[warped harness]

pencil meta?

[tall notch]

Print out a boon list and cross out those that get removed by vow of forsaking

[warped harness]

maybe i should make a program that does that for you

[tall notch]

This thick line between internal name and rarity looks a bit weird to me, but other than that I like it!

[rain hazel]

Also didnt realize til I got to hectate that faster includes their attacks as well 😅

[zenith bolt]

seems good

[turbid hull]

I'm using it to mostly separate indicators from data

[warped harness]

just wait till cerbie and chronos :)))))

[blissful wren]

i do that on notes app, i aint printing it out for that

[rain hazel]

If I only had 30sec at hectate with 7min im not sure the next areas are gonna go well >_>

[tall notch]

It's not the true pencil meta if you don't use paper

[proven orbit]

chronos scythe would probably go from unreactable to teleporting into the past to deal 60 damage

[civic ocean]

somebody say pencil meta? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1244031177241661440/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_693b267b-3d75-4333-8ff2-511c6108c916.jpg?ex=6653a1d1&is=66525051&hm=91b08748054214e572cf418b6eec032b48e1234752a1810cf8468ab408d8c1cd&

[tall notch]

ARE YOU ACTUALLY--

[civic ocean]

I dont cross out I put X next to them and then erase

[tall notch]

already seeing improvements on the meta, I like it

Hoping that your future videos include webcam footage and putting the X's

[civic ocean]

also its next to me on my bed next to my desk and sometimes I forget

[warped harness]

HAND CAM

[civic ocean]

I will have webcam on strim in 2 hrs

[warped harness]

https://tenor.com/view/gunna-fire-writing-heat-gif-25524005

[proven orbit]

You know what's better than drawing an x? drawing an I

[warped harness]

writing down the boons that got forsaken

[sturdy trail]

Athena Dash

[merry flint]

just gamble on the boons you want

vow of forsaking is easy idk why people want a compendium

[proven orbit]

hestia sprint is close enough

sometimes superior tbh

[zenith bolt]

i wonder if they plan on nerfing soot sprint for eris

cuz it kinda just no-sells her fight which is cringe

[sturdy trail]

Hestias sprint feels a little wonky to me, but it is good. I couldn't say athenas dash would be better in this game.

[tall notch]

I don't think they need to? She is not going to be the final boss and it's a very specific boon you'd have to target to counter her

[merry flint]

just rework eris

[zenith bolt]

it's not that specific and one boon completely turning off a boss isn't exactly amazing

[sturdy trail]

I think eris is kinda fine

[merry flint]

pillars are more egreigous anyways

[civic ocean]

Divine Dash would be so busted in this game there are sooooo many projectiles

[tall notch]

Mayyyyyyybe give her an attack or two that can go through soot sprint

[blissful wren]

nah its damage is way less than athene

[civic ocean]

Pretty sure she has like 3?

[merry flint]

melinoe vs the upcoming touhou card

[sturdy trail]

Lol, she flies at you and just punches you?

[blissful wren]

being able to sprint is alr tho

[warped harness]

yes the ultimate move of strife

[turbid hull]

The +5% damage from "While your Hex is not ready, deal +5% damage." is multiplicative

[tall notch]

Rail smack

[civic ocean]

The bombs, the charge, and the air bombs

[tall notch]

WAIT WHAT-- this is big

[sturdy trail]

Pistol whipped with the butt of the rifle

[blissful wren]

big if true

[merry flint]

man a lot of problems would be solved if melinoe could destroy projectiles

[warped harness]

eris, olympic gold medalist in instigating

[civic ocean]

it's Korbin' time!

[sturdy trail]

Whats that on again, the wolf jump?

[merry flint]

im pretty sure its a common boon for all offsenive ones

[sturdy trail]

I use moon water a lot, I dont think ive seen it there

Once I had 25% dmg reduction while my hex wasn't ready, that was nice

[civic ocean]

eclipse, bloom, lunar, and twilight

[turbid hull]

^

[civic ocean]

you can actually see in the boon book

[blissful wren]

Melinoe: can i has hex?
Selene: to use in emergencies?
Melinoe: yeees
actually only uses it for when hex is active effects 😈

[turbid hull]

oh damn, real

[civic ocean]

inactive actually so you have to click it to get it away

[ionic moon]

wait that's brilliant, buff selene by making her the only source of multiplicative buffs

[warped harness]

clearly this meant she didnt have an emergency

[turbid hull]

The damage buff is for when it's inactive tho

[sturdy trail]

Isn't there a talent in moonwater that gives you like 50% crit ( or was it damage) after you use your hex?

[blissful wren]

oh i confused it for with tbe hermes one

[turbid hull]

Big if true

[warped harness]

50% damage

[sturdy trail]

Yeah, thats a cool one

[warped harness]

i think the crit is phase shift

[tall notch]

Could still be a good idea to pick up the hex for these talents on a build that won't even load it if it's really multplicative

[spare kite]

Crit is wolf howl

[sturdy trail]

Crit my beloved

[warped harness]

oh :(

[spare kite]

Phase shift has the +30% fire rate

[sturdy trail]

One day Dark side will be good (I hope)

[tall notch]

Like multiplicative damage has to be better than pomming your attack boon, right?

[warped harness]

yea

[turbid hull]

In most of the cases

[tall notch]

Esp since the trees usually have more than one node of +5%

[blissful wren]

unless its been pommed 0 or 1 times hex is better id guess

[warped harness]

big brain, take the heph hera duo and stack multiplicative damage bonuses

[sturdy trail]

Is Zues cast in and of itself kinda bonkers? it seems really strong even outside Than aspect axe

[civic ocean]

I mean for reference, White Antler is roughly something like a 20% multiplicative damage increase

Or maybe its more idr math

[warped harness]

yeah it is, its great for persephone skull too

[blissful wren]

antler is 40% crit right? Thats 80% mult damage increase

[sturdy trail]

how do you guys figure that?

[civic ocean]

I think it's less

[turbid hull]

Antler is +20% / +30% / +40% / +50% Crit Chance

[blissful wren]

40% chance to increase damage by 200% is 80%

[tall notch]

Not really bonkers since it drops off later on because of its difficulties clearing rooms, but it is pretty solid up to 32 fear yes

[warped harness]

is it?

[sturdy trail]

Local climate

[proven orbit]

Wait, +50%? Is there a way to get a 4th level?

[blissful wren]

Think of it like this 0.6*1 + 0.4*3 = x1.8 damage

[turbid hull]

Not situational at all though

[tall notch]

What was that again? The thing that lets your cast follow you?

[silent crow]

v good vs bosses

[civic ocean]

idk anyways

If you can get Purpose on Momus or Medea is is an insane damage boost if what Choco is saying is true

[turbid hull]

Put your message between two ` in order to keep everything in

[sturdy trail]

yeah, you get a juicy +% dmg to your cast and it follows you around

[tall notch]

Hmm maybe that is something to consider, though having to stand on top of the enemy will reduce its power against bosses and it still doesn't solve the cast being single target damage for room clearing

[proven orbit]

I keep thinking about local climate lucid gain 2+2 combo and never actually get it in the run

[turbid hull]

From what I understand, the Node I'm talking about does just Base Damage = Base Damage x 1.05

[civic ocean]

on stuff like Charon or Lightning Lance it doesn't stay following you IIRC

Charon its just straight 30% more dmg

[sturdy trail]

One time I got that duo buff that kinda... perma (its actually 8 seconds I think) sticks blitz and things and does 200% or something, that was nice

[turbid hull]

Keep in mind Base Damage multipliers are applied before additives, just like in any other damage formula

[silent crow]

i think zeus cast is always really good bc it kills so fast the roon clear isnt a huge issue

[civic ocean]

it still gets pretty gnarly in a hurry, assuming it works with Power?

Did we ever figure out if Evasion is additive

[blissful wren]

yea it is

[warped harness]

hera dem duo boon

[tall notch]

Do you reckon it could be 40 fear-viable? I've been messing around with Zeus cast builds and while I can do 32 fear with them, anything above that I was struggling to get past Erebus

[warped harness]

whats nice is theyre also a great pair on their own

[tall notch]

Because too many mobs and too high health bars for the single target lightning bolts to get through it in the 5 min timer

[silent crow]

idk about solo zeus cast

[blissful wren]

yea 2 earth gods is pog for course grit

[silent crow]

i thought the main strength of a strong cast is that its basically free damahe

[warped harness]

what wep are you running, perseph?

[civic ocean]

So you can get Wispy Wiles + Greater Evasion + Dark side POS + Messenger and get like casual 40+% dodge chance? sick

[tall notch]

I've been trying on both Pers and Than axe

[turbid hull]

Let me check the Node, to make sure.

[warped harness]

tbh on both zeus cast is supplemental and shouldnt be your primary

[blissful wren]

add echo to get temporary 90% dodge

[warped harness]

its just easily one of the best ways to boost your damage esp. given how it pairs with than

[proven orbit]

Yeah zeus cast is basically hands free so there is no reason to not have a main weapon dps on top

[tall notch]

Ah, so I guess I'd still need to actually play axe 😔

[turbid hull]

def add_damage_multiplier(data, multiplier):
    if multiplier >= 1.0:
        if data.get("Multiplicative", False):
            global damageReductionMultipliers
            damageReductionMultipliers *= multiplier
        else:
            global damageMultipliers
            damageMultipliers += multiplier - 1
        if ConfigOptionCache.get("LogCombatMultipliers", False):
            global lastAddedMultiplierName
            lastAddedMultiplierName = data.get("Name", "Unknown")
            DebugPrint({"Text": f" Additive Damage Multiplier ({lastAddedMultiplierName}):{multiplier}"})
    else:
        if data.get("Additive", False):
            global damageMultipliers
            damageMultipliers += multiplier - 1
        else:
            global damageReductionMultipliers
            damageReductionMultipliers *= multiplier
        if ConfigOptionCache.get("LogCombatMultipliers", False):
            global lastAddedMultiplierName
            lastAddedMultiplierName = data.get("Name", "Unknown")
            DebugPrint({"Text": f" Multiplicative Damage Reduction ({lastAddedMultiplierName}):{multiplier}"})```

I rewrote the function in python (game calls add_damage_multiplier with the Node thing)

it is additive

[warped harness]

:((

[turbid hull]

(game does damageMultipliers = damageMultipliers + 0.05)

[tall notch]

Hexes were SO close to being good

[white steppe]

@civic ocean first try chronos on 32 thanks boss, do you have a setup for eris?

[turbid hull]

I got mixed by the "multiplier" name. Sorry about that. From now on I'll check the damage functions first.

[proven orbit]

Tbf the difference between 4 x 5% nodes adding to each other and multiplying is like 1.2x to 1.2155x, not huge letdown

Unless all multipliers stack like that and not just hex nodes

[turbid hull]

Most of the stuff is additive

[proven orbit]

Oh wait you meant that they are additive damage in first place, my bad

[blissful wren]

but by damageMultipliers does it mean all of them or just the hex related ones

[turbid hull]

The function is used for a bunch of stuff, but the call with multiplier being 1.05 I'm talking about is specific to that one Node that adds +5% damage when it's inactive

[night gazelle]

All +%damage is additive in both H1 and H2. I tried posting some feedback on this but it didn’t get much traction. I think some bonuses could be more appropriate as additive or multiplicative on a case-by-case basis

[tired fulcrum]

Romantic spark is multiplicative though its also probably unintended

[night gazelle]

What does that one read again?

[civic ocean]

do the same thing and get lucky to get heph in ephyra

[turbid hull]

If you Sprint into Blitz-afflicted foes, the effect activates immediately and is stronger. (+200%)

[white steppe]

for what, mint?

[civic ocean]

minty and trusty probably

[night gazelle]

Oh. Yeah, odd, but you can see how that might have to be come kind of custom implementation

[turbid hull]

It's an additive multiplier

[civic ocean]

start vivid sea then go antler after poly

[white steppe]

I was thinking maybe pan cause I think momus may need a bit more setup

[civic ocean]

That works too

[blissful wren]

it claims to be but in practice it multiplies by x2

[civic ocean]

You can also just raw antler on surface

[white steppe]

I feel like if I try antler strats on surface I wipe to charybdis lul

[civic ocean]

simply kill them

[night gazelle]

But I do the think the distinction between what mults stack additively and what ones stack multiplicatively should be a bit more intentionally designed. Not just some happenstance of what’s flat damage and whats +%damage

[turbid hull]

+200% is x3, though.

[civic ocean]

yes it does not work correctly

[blissful wren]

maybe its a bug it doenst do that

[turbid hull]

I'm stupid. I have it doing x2 on my own sheet lol

Yeah, the multiplier is x2

[tired fulcrum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1218621088049659930/1240400892855844865/Hades_II_2024-05-15_13-28-57.mp4?ex=66539bda&is=66524a5a&hm=28bb0511f6d7b4e1e1e69847313113b679bfcd9f752b0bfcfd050f53fdffc825&

[blissful wren]

or it could be a typo and they meant its 200% and not +200%

[turbid hull]

It says "Bonus Blitz Damage" though so it would still imply it does 200% additional damage

[warped harness]

yeah

[blissful wren]

good point

[night gazelle]

Yeah seems like sloppy templating

[tired fulcrum]

Anyways its giga bugged

[warped harness]

templating?

[turbid hull]

Is it really giga bugged though?

[night gazelle]

Practically everything in this game that lists a % is an additive % damage modifier

[turbid hull]

Game just displays +200%, while it does x2, that's it no?

[night gazelle]

Like, consistent wording of how to convey mechanics concisely

[tired fulcrum]

Romantic spark also procs toasting fork damage

[warped harness]

ohhh like keywords would be a part of templating

[turbid hull]

"Your Sprint is 15% faster and gives you a barrier that ignores instances of damage."

[warped harness]

:(

[turbid hull]

(it edits DIRECTLY the speed stat of the character)

[silent crow]

has anyone found success with staff omega special

[night gazelle]

You know while I did say this lazily…you also reminded me that I totally forgot about the speed part of this boom

[forest mortar]

three 32 fear attempts with momus and all 6 hammers are for attack

im losing it

[night gazelle]

Speed is fully multiplicative like H1?

[civic ocean]

I think the important thing Choco is mentioning here is that it's only supposed to make you sprint faster

[turbid hull]

"While your Hex is ready, you move and strike faster." is not multiplicative as far as I'm aware

[civic ocean]

but it just makes you faster overall

[turbid hull]

Oh, no, it's only the sprint speed that's affected

[night gazelle]

Anyway I tried getting into all of this some here: #h2-feedback message

[civic ocean]

oof nvm

[turbid hull]

nah, it's my bad, my wording wasn't clear

what I meant is that the 15% speed buff on Nitro Boost is multiplicative while the 15 to 30% speed buff on Midnight Oil is additive

[civic ocean]

What about Swift Runner

[turbid hull]

what's dat

[civic ocean]

arcana

[turbid hull]

Let me check

It adds 99 to the Sprint Speed, e.g. it's additive

[civic ocean]

and finally, what of Apollo's Blinding Sprint?

[turbid hull]

Wait, Nitro Boost adds 297 to the Sprint Speed so it's also additive, confused with another stuff that was doing x1.15 to Speed

[fleet dagger]

I double-checked and during my last 13 attempts through the underworld with Descura's Aspect of Momus I was not offered the Double Moonshot hammer even once. Not one time. Was it disabled or tweaked to be extremely rare? (Edit: I'm trying to beat 32 Fear)

[turbid hull]

Apollo's Blinding Sprint also adds 297 when common level 1

Aaaaah, found the thing

[spare kite]

Don't you love rng

[tall notch]

RNG is just being RNG

[proven orbit]

hammer rng best rng

[turbid hull]

Chaos' Celerity does add 297 to the sprint speed, and it also MULTIPLIES the speed property of Melinoë by 1.15

[fleet dagger]

So rough

[turbid hull]

Afaik, all the things that edit the SPRINT speed are additive

[civic ocean]

are you using Experimental Hammer in Fields?

[sour cape]

That is rough, ive been very lucky getting it like every Momus run 😂

[civic ocean]

I assume not since every build recommends antler

[turbid hull]

Well glad that's sorted out. Now I can go back to Path of Stars

[sour cape]

Hammer actually good?

[tall notch]

It's a good pick up iff (if and only if) none of the possible hammer pulls can ruin your build

[turbid hull]

When I'll get to actually try to figure out the whole damage functions, that will be real fun (no)

[fleet dagger]

Nope, I've been using god keepsakes and either Chaos or Tooth depending on the situation.

[civic ocean]

Oh well I think Antler is definitely going to be where 32 momus is at but I digress

Does anyone know what rough hammer odds are? I feel they must be just under 50%

[tall notch]

Momus doesn't need antler for 32, you can play without it and enjoy the extra safety at that level

[civic ocean]

I think there's a really strong correlation between people who don't play Antler Strength on Momus and people who feel like they cannot win without Double Moonshot

[sour cape]

I did 32 without Antler

[civic ocean]

I think for high jumping you should just do what you're comfy with though

[sour cape]

But also got double Moonshot so idk 🙏

I failed one run in Tartarus without Moonshot though, that feels bad

[proven orbit]

Antler makes me wonder if eris keepsake is so down bad on purpose

[civic ocean]

Eris keepsake is good narrative design

[proven orbit]

Hecate even makes fun of it too

[sour cape]

She does??

[civic ocean]

Would love for it to transform after if things change with Eris

[proven orbit]

Or, well, expresses deep concern when you reach her with eris keepsake on

[civic ocean]

she basically goes wtf is that

[fleet dagger]

I played and beat all of Hades without God Mode and got all the Steam achievements and am trying to do that in Hades 2, but just having a rough go of it. I'm sure I'll make it through with more practice eventually and likely using a different weapon.

[civic ocean]

Gives you the WHAT ARE THOSE

[proven orbit]

"its so joever for melinoe"

[mystic bison]

Keep pushing you'll get used to it eventually

[sour cape]

If you running Strength, just no Boatman?

If can cut Boatman and Fates, could run Strength and Death

[silent crow]

wait how

[iron flame]

hey im struggling a bit with 24 to 32 fear runs and wondering what are some fear stuff that you should pick to make it a bit easier.

[civic ocean]

what about the fear do you feel like makes it hard for you?

[proven orbit]

how is eris bad? Or?

[sour cape]

I think Wandering, Forsaking, Arrogance and Fury are too good value/free to pick

[silent crow]

down bad

[civic ocean]

here's another Big Question (tm)

How do Daedalus hammers work, probability wise? I assume it's 1/12 x 1/11 x 1/10 and then the second one is 1/11 x 1/10 x 1/9?

[proven orbit]

maybe I shouldn't have used the word down as an emphasis 💀

[cinder path]

i'll say that i think hades 2 32 is a lot harder than hades 1 32 because of only a single dash and no athena. athena carries so many people kicking and screaming to their 32 statue

[turbid hull]

I didn't check yet

[sour cape]

And also rn missing EM fears

[cinder path]

losing out on EM, MM, and BP hurts runs as well

[silent crow]

😼

[iron flame]

idk maybe im just not use to it atm. i jsut keep failing at chronos or fields of mourning. so maybe i just need to get better. just was wondering if there are any "free" picks

[sour cape]

So you gotta take lots of junk fears 💀💀

[turbid hull]

What do you mean by 1/12 x 1/11 x 1/10 btw?

[silent crow]

5min deadline feels really tough in this game too

[iron flame]

ooh thank you very much, ill make sure those are maxed out next time i do 20 to 32 heat run

[civic ocean]

If I have one hammer upgrade I want, what are the odds I will see it?

[cinder path]

my 32 antler run was literally just "don't get hit the oath"

[sour cape]

https://imgur.com/jVbiUKT

Here was what I had done for 32 but you should leverage no time limit to heal to half between every room

[civic ocean]

It kinda depends on what you're used to and what your preferences are as a player.

Often players struggle with Chronos because they are playing with Vow of Blood maxed out and Chronos deals way way way more damage to them and hits them way way way more often than anything else in an Underworld run.

[sour cape]

Poseidon, Hephaestus, Hera, Demeter were my gods

[astral edge]

not picking the timer is crazy to me but I guess that's the benefits of the heat/fear system

[cinder path]

at least one level of timer surely

[sour cape]

was worried if needing to spam heals that the timer would mess me up 😆

[civic ocean]

Yeah idk Arya just likes fighting Gigachad enemies

[sour cape]

just wear them down 👀

[civic ocean]

how long did that run take like a full hour or what

[sour cape]

32 mins