h2-builds-and-combat

[proven orbit]

It does sound too good to be true, but I might just try on my own

[bleak night]

Does the Moros keepsake only work once in general or does it work once per room ?

[spice ibex]

Good morning

[bleak night]

gm

[spice ibex]

I wannt a good aspect of artemis build

[wise nest]

average stubborn defiance enjoyer

[bleak night]

I think Aphro on attack is the general thing for it

[wise nest]

^

[spice ibex]

Is this aspect good

[wise nest]

It's definitely solid

[lusty heron]

yeah exactly xD

[bleak night]

it's good, yeah. 50% crit on the next 9 hits after parrying is nice

[spice ibex]

and also aspect of pan build , is it the usual shotgun aphro

[wise nest]

You can do aphro but poseidon is also good

Pan + hammers are already insane in their own right

[proven orbit]

Once per room, just checked

[bleak night]

nice

[proven orbit]

Now to find some fires to test out of combat...

[spice ibex]

yeah

[wise nest]

Helps that there's only like one special hammer that isn't good for it

Also I'm pretty sure the backstab knives kind of get screwed over by the ricochet if you get both

I was noticing way fewer backstab procs when I had both hammers

[lusty heron]

LETS GOO both 32 fear done

[wise nest]

Congrats

oop

[lusty heron]

eris was defintiely the easiest part of the run
honorable mentions goes out to the give up button to save my double moonshot hammer when i messed up

[wise nest]

oh

that explains a lot

[lusty heron]

also removing all time fears helped immensely

[wise nest]

yeah, tight deadline was one of the barriers to max heat for a long time in the first game

If you play well enough to not get hit you can feasibly beat everything hitless even with all the modifiers, but the issue is the timer served as a dps check

[lusty heron]

and for current surface its just really wild
but skipping it allowed me to get in the extra rooms in the cities

[wise nest]

there's a lot of basically free fear in this game too

[lusty heron]

yeah but its kinda sad half of it requires no omega cast

[wise nest]

you can still run omega builds with those active though

[lusty heron]

assuming you use them all together of course

yeah for sure

[wise nest]

I wonder if anyone's gonna do 55 heat

honestly it helps that momus doesn't use magic bc the vows are free fear + you get extra grasp to use

Just another reason it's turbo op

[lusty heron]

but at my skill level
saving 5 grasp from the regen card + the free fear is helping alot

yeah lol was jsut writing it

but yeah thats what i meant

[wise nest]

It scaling off flat damage makes the % boosts from 2 status/cast even better

I had a build with static shock + support fire + heroic poseidon special and the special itself actually wound up doing the most damage

[bleak night]

I can't see people doing 55 fear atm

people that do 50 on Momus take 18-20 minutes on it

taking away all the Arcana and clearing in that same time seems kinda impossible atm

[timber fractal]

Why doesnt artemis have duo boons in this game?

[bleak night]

She's a support god now

[timber fractal]

For why?

[bleak night]

Dev choice

[timber fractal]

I thought she was AMAZING in hades 1 , kind of bummed tbh

Legit one of my top 3's :,))

[lusty heron]

well she is a more interactive character now then before

[timber fractal]

IG but why not have both?

[lusty heron]

cause they rather wanted to put in other gods

[wise nest]

Yeah, all the Olympians not present in the first game now get to be involved

[timber fractal]

ig idk much about game dev 😭 why not both

[wise nest]

Takes up design space and rng for the god pool

[timber fractal]

Fair but aren't they alr adding more gods?

[wise nest]

At least artemis exists at all, do you want her to vanish like Athena/Dionysus/Ares

[lusty heron]

cause they didnt want crit on a main god

is what i assume which is a fine decision

[wise nest]

I miss arty crit 😭

[timber fractal]

p sure they're coming back

[timber fractal]

so its bc she's broken?

[wise nest]

Maybe as far as the story, but I dunno about gameplay and boons

[timber fractal]

No im almost certain they said all gods and more

[wise nest]

She wasn't and isn't

She was very, very good in the first as far as never being a bad option

[timber fractal]

so then whats wrong w/crit?

[lusty heron]

because they wanted crit to be attained differently

[wise nest]

Did they actually say that

[lusty heron]

maybe no they didnt

[wise nest]

I think it's primarily to make space for other gods

[timber fractal]

I'd have to check but i thought for sure I saw that the others were coming back

[lusty heron]

i mean just guessing here
we arent the dev i guess write it in #h2-feedback @timber fractal

[turbid hull]

The main gods (e.g. who get duo boons) are Aph, Apollo, Dem, Heph, Hera, Hestia, Pos and Zeus iirc

[wise nest]

Again, Ares/Athena/Dio are gone entirely

[bleak night]

They'll add one of them as a main god down the line, if not all. Water infusions are kind of weak atm, just a +100 HP interaction with Poseidon

[turbid hull]

athena

[bleak night]

Earth and Air are just stacked at the moment

5 gods giving those attributes compared to 3 for the other two. Fire is technically 4, but Hermes only has one fire boon

[wise nest]

Athena is turbobusted and would be even more turbobusted in this game I feel

[turbid hull]

what was Athena doing in H1?

[timber fractal]

I think (coping) they'll add em back

[bleak night]

chilling

[turbid hull]

?

[bleak night]

oh, you mean the boons LOL

[wise nest]

The value of deflecting any and all projectiles was obscene

[turbid hull]

yeah, how was she turbobusted

[bleak night]

Deflect properties on attack, special, cast or dash as core boons

[turbid hull]

that's a little op

[bleak night]

she also had a really good duo with Ares

[timber fractal]

her dash was the only dash i ever went for period.

[wise nest]

Primarily dash but she had a lot of nice to have options as well

Like less trap damage or busted ass merciful end

[turbid hull]

thanks for answering

[timber fractal]

16 fear run with than axe whats the best vows to pick?!

[bleak night]

I maximize on enemy spawns while removing blue hearts, the rest are the usual free Fear nodes

[wise nest]

Her fully charged call (kinda like the hexes in this game) gave you several seconds of full invulnerability

[turbid hull]

I remember the Calls

[forest shale]

What other boons than poseidon special for momus staff?

[wise nest]

She also gave backstab damage too

[timber fractal]

i do enemy spawns, spawn form next location, blue hearts and idk what to do for the restr

[turbid hull]

yeah so Athena busted ok

[wise nest]

Honestly whatever you want

[forest shale]

Any fun duo boon I can aim for?

[bleak night]

timer 9 or 7, depending on how comfortable you are, Primer on rarity, gold cost, Healing reduction

[wise nest]

Oh yeah she also replenished and enhanced your death defiance/stubborn defiance

[turbid hull]

Ofc she did

She needs it as much as steve needs to place blocks in smash

[wise nest]

her cast was nice too for being a giant bouncing deflect ball with decent damage

[wise nest]

Honestly the dash >>>>>>>> every other boon in the game

[timber fractal]

so dont do the more health and damage on enemies?

[wise nest]

Imagine deflecting hourglass projectiles or Chronos' boomerang scythe

[turbid hull]

that's illegal

[bleak night]

what's your setup rn

[timber fractal]

can i send a pic in dms

[bleak night]

sure

[topaz peak]

hestia

[turbid hull]

I knew the Suffering on Sight Circe Curse had flawed rng!

0.5% chance of doing 999 damage
1% chance of doing between 100 and 998 damage
98.5% chance of doing between 1 and 99 damage

[brittle prairie]

That is such a misleading descriptor

[turbid hull]

I mean, full rng would be very strong

[bleak night]

pretty good vs blue hearts tho ngl

[acoustic remnant]

I almost won my first run against cronos

[brittle prairie]

It would but like, they could say 1-99 woth a low chance to do more

[bleak night]

bro put 3 levels into breaker sprint over Poseidon Daggers

[acoustic remnant]

HEY

I didn’t know

[turbid hull]

Having a uniform distribution over the whole 1 - 999 span would be ridiculous, getting on average 500

[bleak night]

that's fair, yeah

[acoustic remnant]

the daggers don’t seem like much unless u calculate per dagger

also he was like below half hp in phase 2 that was winnable 😭

[brittle prairie]

oh im npt saying buff it, but it definotely feels misleading for when you're making choices based off the limited info the game tells you

[turbid hull]

true

[timber fractal]

Wait so what happens if i use a keepsake to get a 4th god, will they keep appearing or only appear once... i got hephaestus and dont want him in my run

[bleak night]

You know the patterns a lot better than before now, at least.

[acoustic remnant]

I low-key knew what to expect from seeing ur clips all the time ngl

so I wasn’t exactly going into the battle blind

[bleak night]

Oh, that's fair

[acoustic remnant]

I think if I went in blind he’d have taken me less time to beat than hades tho

Hades took me like ~5 runs from when I first reached

[bleak night]

Needs a phase 3

[acoustic remnant]

Cronos i feel id beat in a second blade run

[vital scroll]

Anyone here playing on controller/Deck and as underwhelmed with the Ygnium Attack targeting as me?

[timber fractal]

Like if i have aphro, apollo, and hephy but add on the demeter keepsake, will demeter reapear in run? or only once bc of the keepsake

[proven orbit]

I'm lowkey tempted to say chronos 2nd phase is easier because it's focused on gimmicks while holding back the actual attacks
Might be too early though, given I only did the fight about 8 times

[bleak night]

I don't enjoy playing Torches on full controller, so I get you

[topaz peak]

i like Hestia's cast for blue hearts. scorch in general is pretty good for blue hearts and then just pos special with slip and duo boon.

[topaz peak]

i'd say yes.

[vital scroll]

I usually build out something like Poseidon's Dash + High Omega Special damage

[bleak night]

Poseidon in general isn't very good on my weapon, so I kinda can't do that much

[topaz peak]

if you're quick enough.

[topaz peak]

ahh fair.

i mostly play pan

[turbid hull]

Does Malice in Kind work on bosses?

[split igloo]

How does one use aspect of medea?

[vital scroll]

Which ones that? I think I just unlocked that yesterday

[bleak night]

can I link you a speedrun? The general technique of the weapon should be there even if the person playing is really advanced on it

[split igloo]

Attack stays within reach, then explodes after 3 seconds

[split igloo]

Sure thing

[bleak night]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0mYpfNz1U8&ab_channel=Croven

[wise nest]

em4 cooking

[wise nest]

I think it's arguably harder if you don't have a ton of damage, the hourglasses can really screw you over in combination with the instakill moves

[bleak night]

EM4 is never truly free Heat though, let's be real

[wise nest]

Huh, I never said it was-

[bleak night]

Oh, I never said you did, just wanted to reaffirm

mb lol

[wise nest]

EM4 is misery for high heat because funny butterfly ball = dead run

at least often

[proven orbit]

Ye, not clearing the hourglasses in time is definitely the difficulty spike in that phase, I can agree with that. Doesn't help their spawning is pretty delayed and spread out so you can't sweep them out at once

[wise nest]

Yep, the worst part is you're in a catch 22 during the "only one hour position is safe" move because if you kill them you might get frozen in a bad spot and if you don't they'll just be hitting you while you're forced to stand there

Unless you can blitz Chronos fast enough or get the dissent boon from dad there will likely be hourglasses alive during his oneshot attacks

[turbid hull]

Fyi, the check for The Huntress Arcana Card activation is CurrentMana < 0.99 * MaxMana e.g. no activation if you have primed all your Magick

[bleak night]

good to know

[wise nest]

Interesting

Yet another bit of momus privilege is the fact that huntress turns the 0 starting magick vow into basically only a positive

No need for magick regen boons or card + extra damage literally just for free

[ionic lily]

Finally got my 32 fear statue once selene decided to stop harassing me

[proven orbit]

In case somebody already tried, is it possible to get hephaestus attack boon to 0 cooldown?

[rich oxide]

Any tips on using Aspect of Thanatos?

[turbid hull]

Found an arcana card that's not linear smh

The Unseen is 2/3/4/6

[bleak night]

lowest possible is I think 2 seconds ?

or was that for special, either way lowest I've seen was 2

[turbid hull]

Doubt it's for special. Heroic Special is 14 Sec., Heroic Attack is 6 Sec

[bleak night]

wtf I've been playing Hera on Axe for a while and I only just noticed the trail of the weapon spawns peacock feathers

[pastel elm]

lowest ive seen is a 2s atk for heph, bc of that hera boon that forces a sacrifice+poms it

[acoustic remnant]

Her sacred animal

[turbid hull]

The Swift Runner Arcana card is also non linear (5% / 7% / 10% / 11%)

[cloud fog]

just had a build that was pretty slow/weak for most of the run, but by the time i reached Chronos, my Zues cast did 2000+ per cycle. it felt very strong by the end and I was sad the run was over lol

[limber dock]

aphrodite aspect of mom with the double hit special hammer is just insane if you get the posiden duo

[bleak night]

Oooh, how did that build go ?

@patent mesa You still need an answer for that Testament thing ?

[patent mesa]

Yea, I am a bit confused about this. It kind of looks like some of my potential Nightmare is gone :D

[bleak night]

If it's the Descura thing, it might've been because you unwittingly did the next testament in the same run

For example, when they fixed the two missing Sister Blade ones, it was... 16 Hecate and 24 Chronos? I just did a 32 run and got both in one go

So if you got more than one Nightmare in that Staff run, that means you're all clear

It only has about 6 Testaments per weapon atm, one per boss on each weapon at varying Fear levels, and Sister Blades and Torches' highest are 24, while the other 3 are just 20. Perhaps a surface boss later on will do 20 Blade/Torch and 24 Axe/Staff/Skull

So, in essence, idt you lost anything Nmare

[patent mesa]

Okay, that makes, thanks!

[bleak night]

Glad that helps~

[delicate spindle]

Do you only get offered 1 hammer per surface run?

[pine viper]

Any suggestions on how to make blitz work? I like the mechanic and would like to run a run wirh zeus, but I dont know how to make it work 😦

[acoustic remnant]

@bleak night should I do a skull run

[delicate spindle]

Try to get Demeter duo boon. It actives all blitz enemies effected by blitz if you activate on one. Pair that with Aspect of Eos torches where the attacks go through enemies and can blitz multiple enemies with a single attack. and you are golden.

My most successfull aspect of eos run was at 24 fear, with aspect of eos and Full Zeus with the core boon being static shock and Air quality. If had demeteer bro, it would have been ever better

[pine viper]

Zeus on attack and demeter on cast as orientation sounds good then?

[bleak night]

dyk how to use it ?

[delicate spindle]

https://ibb.co/z6vytpb Yea, you can never go wrong on demeter cast. But yea Zeus attack, Zeus static shock and demeter cast or sprint. The rest shoud be zeus boons, like the one that increases number of chain lightnings and Air quality

[tall notch]

Do you like playing aggressively?

[pine viper]

Only problem then is, torches being low key unplayable on controller if prio is on the attack imo. But thinking about it, shouldnt it also be fine on the special when running aspect of melinoe?

[delicate spindle]

Torch Specials dont stun, so its risky

[pine viper]

Yeah, I got the duo in a random run where I was not aiming for it. Sounded great but did not fit in my run atm sadly

[delicate spindle]

Torch special build should only be run with Aphro for damage or Demeter for safety

[pine viper]

I did like my torches special run on the surface, was lots of fun. You can dodge while making damage

[turbid hull]

Anyone like Revenant here?

[pine viper]

I guess I will try out both and see what happens, but will start with attack. I like the concept of eos a lot

[tall notch]

I do when not rushing the timer

[delicate spindle]

Starts of slow but ones you get static shock up and running, you will be melting things

[turbid hull]

Do you think 50% is too much or not enough for max level?

[delicate spindle]

if you are pairing with the increease number of enemies oath, then dont do it

[tall notch]

Try passion dash Eos too. When you're dashing into enemies it's easier to get auto aim to do what you want it to and passion dash will be proccing blitz

[tall notch]

It's a reasonable amount imo

[turbid hull]

Gotcha

[delicate spindle]

yea, if you somehow manage to get both demeter duo and aphro duo, you will have a god tier run https://ibb.co/cF7RckG

[pine viper]

Thanks for the inspo guys

[shrewd crater]

anyone got a speedrunning arcana build for momus staff?

[acoustic remnant]

No

[cloud fog]

how tf are you supposed to beat trial of haste

thats actually cooked

[spice summit]

I would recommend spinning with the axe. There are definitely more subtle and just as effective ways, but Zeus on attack and spin pretty much guarantees one or two blitz activations.

[pine viper]

I had one good run with spinning but started to dislike it since then. You are extremely close all the time and without the hammer to make you faster, you are very vulnerable. I started to like charon very much, that is why I also do not prefer to play with a spinning build. But thanks for the idea and I guess I will try it out some time 🙂

[glossy rivet]

is advancing whirlwind bugged with than axe like psychic?

[bleak night]

Yep

[merry flint]

Dire Candle or Furious Fire? Im in Erebus and don't have a Gain card

[tall notch]

Furious

[split igloo]

I don't love spin builds for this reason. Feels like you have to be annoyingly careful at high heat because otherwise you just get clapped

[bleak night]

Spinning on high fear is more of a situation awareness thing rather than a damage-check, honestly

[split igloo]

Yeah I worded my thing poorly but they kind of go hand in hand. You have to be super aware and careful and if not you get chunked out very easily

[bleak night]

Fair, yeah. You mostly wanna spin when you see the targets have little to no armour, since spinning on a target with armour just gets you smacked in the face

Pretty much why I run Hera nowadays for it

I don't really have to care about the armour states once I start whirling, because it instantly breaks

[split igloo]

I haven't done much Hera on axe but I can see it being nasty

[bleak night]

unless it's just one target, of course

The build itself is nasty

to stack up those

[pine viper]

I just think, that charon promotes a much safe playstyle which does not give you alot of problems. Getting into safe distances as well as casting all the time, therefore getting the advantages of it is just very safe. And the big bonk is much fun, so I love it alot

[bleak night]

I usually feel blessed and never really lost before on Axe if I find 3rd, since I can stack boons completely

[earnest echo]

which fear would you recommend for 32 fear on the surface?

[bleak night]

I'd enjoy Charon more if it promoted more build diversity, but atm people just run Apollo Cast + flavour of Special on it

[bleak night]

Probably try not to work with a 5 min timer, it's kinda awful for Ephyra

besides that, Onion vow is forgiving in surface because you find a god in the first two rooms

Unless Selene or a Hammer show up, one of which is more welcome than the other...

[pine viper]

Its the goto, but there are much more possibilities I guess? I did not try out higher fear, but had a very fun run hera and hestia cast resulting in the duo in the end, with some good hestia follow ups it worked very good. also hera on the special just deleted every wave in the combo with hestia. Edit: fear instead of heat

[bleak night]

Worth a go I suppose, it's just that I'm kinda discouraged by the lack of Omega Casts and Duos that it plays really well into. Atm the only really good Omega Cast-based Duo is Zeus-Apollo, unless you wanna run Poseidon-Aphrodite for a meme build and blast them from afar with Aphro Special

[pine viper]

Yeah, I hope they will add more Omega casts with the new gods. But I think, that it does not have to be an omega cast to work with Charon, but as I said, I did not go high with fear yet due to a lack of time, writing my Master thesis right now

[bleak night]

oooh GL with that~

[tame vapor]

what do you guys think is the best attack boon for the charon axe

[bleak night]

you don't usually use Charon Axe for the attack

[tame vapor]

i know

[bleak night]

probs just put Apollo on it since you're getting his Cast anyway. That way you're 2/3 boons toward his legendary

[tame vapor]

that is true, yeah ill try that

[ionic moon]

Demeter, if you're already going Apollo zeus

then you can get some freeze utility while opening up local climate and torrential downpour

[vital jackal]

You know, the vow that makes the first hit in every encounter stronger is not that bad if you take the right boons.

For example, the demeter infusion, or the hepheistos boon that primes magic in exchange for shield

[tall notch]

Thing about that vow is it kinda hits build diversity since dealing with it without Heph is a pain

[ionic moon]

aphro heph duo's chance to shine

[tall notch]

Suddenly Heph becomes a must have

[vital jackal]

True

[spare kite]

Doesn't downpour only have the gain/sprint/cast as pre reqs for dem

[vital jackal]

In general, there are a few vows that don't exactly increase fun

The inflation vow for example

The only thing it does is make you engage less with the shop, and have less boons

[sour cape]

Demeter doesnt work

[vital jackal]

Does it not?

[sour cape]

you gotta actually take dmg so just Hephaestus 🙏

[ionic moon]

the vows aren't really meant to be fun lol

[tall notch]

I don't hate the inflation vow as much as it makes me think about my economy more rather than "buy everything in sight because I'm rich"

[vital jackal]

I thought you could only take a maximum of 15

[sour cape]

ohh yea Coarse grit works

[tall notch]

The infusion does, her prime doesn't

[spare kite]

I'm a price up hater, I love buying stuff

[sour cape]

thought you meant her prime

Issue with Coarse grit is its hard to survive until then

if gonna rely on that

since 6 earth 💀💀

[spare kite]

Just because they are difficult doesn't mean unfun to play with
See: extreme measures/BP1 from H1

[tall notch]

Coarse grit setups probably want Heph to gather all the earth and he helps survivability

[spare kite]

AP/RI were also deeply ew

[sour cape]

Ive had a few times when I got to Chronos with 5 Earth 😭😭

[ionic moon]

I really dislike vow of panic, everyone calls it free fear but probably only because momus or early born gain is meta

[brave locust]

guys ive been playing for 2 days whats the best weapon??
\

[spare kite]

For a game about mana we have a lot of stuff that really don't want you using mana

[sour cape]

Panic only 1 anyways and only free for Momus

[exotic heath]

what was bp again? i loved extreme measures and hope we get something similar in hades 2

[sour cape]

and even Momus eventually wants mana imo for healing

[tall notch]

Agreed. It's a poorly designed vow, it shouldn't go from extremely punishing to outright beneficial depending on weapon. Because of this design you can't exactly make it cost more fear as that benefits the no mana builds even more

[tall notch]

Momus straight up benefits from panic because you trigger huntress for free

[spare kite]

Armored enemies get random perks (at 1 lvl it was fine, lvl 2 is nasty)

[sour cape]

Yea so take Demeter mana, always 0 for Huntress during fighting, and then heal to half after every room

[spare kite]

Also why do a lot of pacts just have like 1 lvl or jumps

[sour cape]

Or Born Again*

[exotic heath]

oh yeah i remember, lvl 2 from that one was rough :S

[spare kite]

Idk why the dmg pact does the jump of 20>60>100

[vital jackal]

Ok, I'm going to talk about hades 1 for a second. There were diffrent types of punishmet. On is things like EM or the buff to armored enemies, which were fun ways to make the game more challanging, since it changed things up. Then there where pacts that just gave your enemies more damage or health, which is alright not exactly fun, but still makes the game harder in a way you probably don't hate. And then there were pacts that just sucked the joy right out of the game, like the one where you couldn't take 1 or 2 of the options offered.
I would argue that pacts/vows should be fun, or at least, shouldn't make the game less fun.

[sour cape]

fear at least also goes up

[spare kite]

Stuff like revenants on its own is also kinda fun, but just snowballs awfully the more you have

[sour cape]

yea Rev + more enemies is 0 fun

Rev Hippos 💀

[spare kite]

Or why the mana pact is 100%/0%
You could def make it more lvls

[exotic heath]

yeah there were some pretty bad pacts in 1 too like i couldnt deal with underworld customs at all and never took it.
in hades 2 the one that disables all arcana probably takes that spot

[sour cape]

yea disanle arcana is disaster

[spare kite]

Disable arcana is routine inspection but worse somehow

[merry flint]

you can't really change it to a grasp limit because you'd have to go back to the altar then rework your loadout then come back

[proven orbit]

You should have heard my sign of relief when I checked vow list and didn't find AP analogue

[merry flint]

anyways should i take elements or 37% more special damage from chaos

[sour cape]

you could make it disable cards of a certain cost

[proven orbit]

Such a shame RI still made it in

[merry flint]

then you run into issues with activating the zero cost cards

[sour cape]

let them activate

[spare kite]

Defiances will turn off too quick

[exotic heath]

yeah, atleast you could still have death defiances with routine inspection

[sour cape]

just no effect from the cards disabled

[turbid hull]

wait until you know about the 90% revenant vow

[quaint orchid]

are you able to reroll hammers?

[proven orbit]

Is it as spam E as I imagine, or worse?

[turbid hull]

I don't play with vows

[split igloo]

I feel like this sentiment fundamentally misunderstands the purpose of pacts here. The difficulty modifiers exist so that hardcore enjoyers can mode the game to a level of difficulty they enjoy. It's all very subjective. So if they suck the fun out of your game then you've probably just hit a modifier that doesn't spark joy for you. Same for me I love both games but I'm not a huge fan of some of the higher fear stuff so I just don't run it

[sour cape]

no

[exotic heath]

and tight deadline seems harder in 2 for me but that could also be me not beeing used to the game yet

[spare kite]

Also vow of bitterness w/o dark foresight to make up for it is just meh

[sour cape]

I dont use Tight Deadline

[quaint orchid]

bruh

[tall notch]

Imo, the sole purpose of that disable arcana vow is letting you do the fated list thing for Hecate without arcana and an option for people who don't have much arcana unlocked anyway to push their early testaments. It's not even an option for actual fear pushing unless you're going really, really high and have no other option

[sour cape]

feel like it makes game harder since you not able to do a lotta optionals in Tartarus and makes more enemies a lot worse

at 32 anyways*

[spare kite]

Tight deadline 2 is fine-ish for most stuff

[split igloo]

Map bigger more tanky enemy's in lots of areas

[ionic moon]

it's for players who think challenge + bragging rights = fun

[split igloo]

So the timer is way more impactful

[merry flint]

nah its harder my average run doesn't come up to 9 min timer

[sour cape]

Plus makes it so you cant heal to half as easily with Momus

[tall notch]

It definitely is higher. But that might be by design considering how many people considered Hades 1 deadline free

[spare kite]

But +enemies/+hp being almost guaranteed to use makes td3 annoying

[merry flint]

its kinda :(

[proven orbit]

That would kinda make sense, but also is very sad

[sour cape]

9 mins is fine yea

[split igloo]

Yeah also this. Deadline was free heat in the first game because alot of the areas were so compact

[sour cape]

But only 1 fear anyways

[merry flint]

tight deadline and revanant vow

[past pewter]

Wouldn’t most people get that one from that one stone trial

[tall notch]

Like the only way to fail 9 min deadline in h1 was to turtle through the game and afk during runs without pausing

[spare kite]

What does unlock that trial/prophecy btw

[merry flint]

i mustve been the only guy doing it fully legit

no arcana no fear no trial

[tall notch]

I was planning to do it legit at some point but when the trial showed up I wanted it done anyway

[sour cape]

Ive failed 9 mins doing more enemies + revs in Erebus

[proven orbit]

pre-buff bow could fail it too

[split igloo]

I did it legit because I'm too dumb to think of alternate options

[turbid hull]

Time to do a full Vow datamine for my spreadsheet ig, since they are in the same file as the Arcana Cards

[merry flint]

it was for the best tbh i got signficiantly better at the hecate bossfight

[exotic heath]

yeah i certainly feel like the runs take longer, like the last biome taking atleast 5 rooms where you could get styx done in 2
or the 3rd one feels way longer than elysium too

[spare kite]

My TD run going so fine then boom
Triple divide

[sour cape]

I did it legit

[merry flint]

'2 minutes left, i'm sure it won't go so bad'

[sour cape]

just disable arcana and go get her 👀

[split igloo]

Literally all the areas bar the first are bigger than Hades 1

[merry flint]

triple divide 'VOW OF DESPERATION'

[tall notch]

TRIPLE DIVIDE

[split igloo]

Even Tartarus is longer compared to Hades 1 final area because you can God roll Cerberus treat on a single room

[spare kite]

PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE

[tall notch]

I am so glad sack rng is gone btw

[spare kite]

Sack on tunnel 1 is impossible, min is 2

[exotic heath]

oh really? i always feel like i get oceanus done way quicker than asphodel, could be due to the rooms beeing more compact and beeing able to aoe everything down tho

[split igloo]

Wait is this confirmed

[merry flint]

yeah

[spare kite]

Yeah

[split igloo]

Huh never knew that good looks. Point still stands though it has the potential to be much quicker clear than Tartarus on h2

[past pewter]

TD does seem harder but interestingly speedrun times seem quicker compared to h1 after 2 weeks?

[tall notch]

Oceanus is quick, true. But that doesn't compensate for other regions (particularly Erebus) taking longer

[spare kite]

Asphodel rooms are biiiig yeah, and the enemies don't stop jumping

[split igloo]

^^^^^^^^

[merry flint]

it helps when the weapons are busted

[spare kite]

Also yeah fields w/o movement speed is lmao

[exotic heath]

wasnt the cerbie treat hardcoded to atleast take 2 tunnels?

[tall notch]

We already have a lot of the strats figured out, which they didn't when h1 came out

[past pewter]

Yeah

[tall notch]

Like we immediately knew the optimal pathing through rooms etc

[merry flint]

urgh i can't decide

[split igloo]

Yeah I just learned this you right. Still quicker than Tartarus on h2 tho

[turbid hull]

we also have more data

[merry flint]

Should i take +Special or +Elements from chaos

[split igloo]

Also the actual rooms in final area on H1 were tiny for the most part

[tall notch]

What build? +elements is good if you are aiming for an infusion you don't meet the requirements for, but special damage is big on something like momus/pan

[spare kite]

What wep/which infusions can you go for

[past pewter]

Styx takes ~30s at top end, way faster than Tartarus

[merry flint]

Doing 24 fear Eos, Demeter/Hera/Heph

[split igloo]

If it's momus or pan or Charon take special

[spare kite]

Oh elements lmao

[tall notch]

Yeah you don't care about special damage

[split igloo]

Elements for sure

[spare kite]

What's the curse btw

[tall notch]

I only weave in specials between mob spawns on Eos

[exotic heath]

yeah totally, especially if you go for the elite tunnels, the normal ones can be kinda slow, and i like styx more becaus you actually get stronger doing the tunnels, while in tartarus you dont always get the option to choose reward rooms.

[spare kite]

I still like tartarus more than Styx at the end of the day
Sack rng is ew

[merry flint]

thanks, I got coarse grit from charon shop right after

just 3 more earth boons to go

[past pewter]

Just don’t get sacked smh (i will never forget my 6:02)

[spare kite]

Ephyra is styx but fun (except side rooms)

[split igloo]

I feel like a lot of the mini bosses are quicker in this game though

[merry flint]

Bless Demeter Freeze beats the lasers

[spare kite]

The runs where I didn't get sacked got barged'd or bull'd

[proven orbit]

I appreciate the "express route" always being available for speedruns (and people struggling with tartarus mobs), but it feels like the side rewards are too inconsistent and far inbetween

[spare kite]

2 exit rooms should be more common

[split igloo]

Really dependent I feel like. I've had runs where I've been offered rewards near constantly. And then other runs where I've seen nothing

[past pewter]

What’s the longest chain of reward rooms you can get in tart

[sour cape]

Hmmmm for Charon would Origination be better than Death?

[tall notch]

They feel really consistent when you are running room reroll arcana, I can guarantee I'll get that one boon from the god I want

[exotic heath]

yeah if they made those more common or maybe gave you something minor from the express route it would feel a lot better to me. i would even be happy with minor things like those little additional drops you can pick up in the mourning fields

[split igloo]

But the express route is just amazing because sometimes if you've highrolled pre-tartarus it's amazing

[proven orbit]

Does room reroll allow you to reroll a number path into a reward path?

[tall notch]

Nope, but when reward paths do show up you can reroll them

[split igloo]

Express route is locked I believe

[spare kite]

Shoutouts to the small drops

[sour cape]

Whats the tartarus express route?

[tall notch]

And by tart a build really should be complete so you only need a few extras at most

[proven orbit]

Well, my issue is that the reward path doesn't show up like 3/5 times

[past pewter]

Express route feels like a direct response to sack complaints lmao

[sour cape]

Sometimes you need some Earth element 😭

[tall notch]

All number rooms, no side rewards

[spare kite]

Going through the numerical doors, any reward door (coins/etc) is a detour

[sour cape]

Oh

[glossy rivet]

if i take icarus hammer after getting an omega attack hammer, this means the icarus hammer wont give me a hammer that disables omega attack right?

[proven orbit]

Obviously it's variable, and my first run only 1 didn't have the other path, but it still rubs me in a wrong way

[tame vapor]

is apollo the best special for charon axe or is there a better one

[sour cape]

It could!

[sour cape]

I think Apollo the best

[exotic heath]

small dropsare awesome yeah, the only thing that kinda annoys me is that the small psyche drop is the same as the psyche room reward, so once i got to the fields i never took psyche rooms again

[merry flint]

true random

[past pewter]

What do people use for cast on charon

[sour cape]

could consider Demeter or Hera for a cuese

[split igloo]

Apollo 10000% of the time

[spare kite]

Apollo only pretty much

[sour cape]

Def Apollo 🙏

[past pewter]

I tried Poseidon and it felt bad

[spare kite]

Pos is bugged iirc

[merry flint]

Apollo Cast Zeus Special

[split igloo]

Poseidon is unplayable on that build

[past pewter]

Really

[split igloo]

^^^^

[sour cape]

For soem reason Poseidon doesnt benefit from a lotta dmg buffs

Like Charons own built in buff 💀💀

[spare kite]

Welcome back flood flare (but bad)

[past pewter]

Yeah i did notice that

[tame vapor]

does their duop work with the charon effect?

[glossy rivet]

how good is escalating ambush btw

[tall notch]

I can't wait for an incantation that'll let you have these small drops every time you pick up a resource reward. H1 had that and it helped make resource rooms feel less bad

[bleak night]

yep

[split igloo]

^^^^^ this please this

[glossy rivet]

smh i had artemis attackl dagger and icarus ks gave me a special hammer smh smh smh rng pls

[exotic heath]

the one where gems gave gold was awesome yeah

[tame vapor]

oh crap i need to try it then

[split igloo]

The health for darkness was so so good in h1

[spare kite]

Certainly a hammer I think

[sour cape]

Hmmmm Death vs Origination for Charon?

If gotta take Moon and Champion 😭

[bleak night]

Death isn't really consistent

[spare kite]

I hope fated keys comes back

[glossy rivet]

whats the best hammer for artemis daggers? explosive ambush?

[tall notch]

Key rerolls my beloved

[glossy rivet]

trynna get apollo legendary on this thing too

[spare kite]

Yeah, ig you could do backstab 2nd hammer, it applies to omega iirc

[split igloo]

Backstab would be good

[proven orbit]

It does, can confirm

[exotic heath]

yeah they were great too but since you can get room rerolls and boon rerolls and use those interchangeably i dont really run out till im already pretty strong

[split igloo]

Arcana cast crit + backstab plus Artemis

[proven orbit]

The targeting gets janky sometimes and some foes really love to turn on your omega attack instantly, but it mechanically works

[spare kite]

Isn't cast crit from arty

[tall notch]

H2 could probably replace these extra rerolls with small mana pickups

[vital jackal]

Ok sh**. I just took the hera zeus duo boon thinking it was the same as the zeus hera duo boon. Now my only damage boon is gone

[split igloo]

Arcana card too

[spare kite]

Speaking of rerolls, I love the look of them when taking the narcissus offer

[split igloo]

As in people in your cast take crit

[sour cape]

Queen and Kings Ransom 💀

[past pewter]

Wait what, does order matter now

[merry flint]

order matters :P

[vital jackal]

Yep.

[sour cape]

yes

[past pewter]

Is it just for that duo or for all

[vital jackal]

Only in this specific boon

[sour cape]

whoever offers the boon, you keep

[spare kite]

No yeah that's from arty lol
Arcana is either enemies take more dmg on cast/omega attacks can crit

[past pewter]

Oh ok

[merry flint]

Its for this specific Duo interaction

[tall notch]

It's for that god combo, they have two duos

[merry flint]

King's Ransom from Zeus and Queen's Ransom from Hera

[split igloo]

The latter is what I meant I just worded poorly

[sour cape]

Legit bad duo 😂

[tall notch]

Just make sure to read when either of the duo shows up

[exotic heath]

yeah more small mana seems good, but which ressource do you put it on? ashes psyche?

[spare kite]

Hilarious duo but gameplay is kinda ?

[merry flint]

although at this point they should have a 3rd duo for when you don't want to kill a run

[tall notch]

It's such a meme and I love it for that

[past pewter]

Think my first win was with that duo, I had a juiced up Zeus cast

[glossy rivet]

does skulking slice work on omega attack? should i pick that over escalating ambush (alrdy got epxlosive)

[tall notch]

Psyche imo

[spare kite]

What's skulking, more finisher dmg?

[merry flint]

Ashes for Health and Psyche for Mana

[glossy rivet]

200% dmg from behind

[spare kite]

Yeah it works

[merry flint]

or just have then give both or something

[glossy rivet]

skulking > escalating?

[past pewter]

Rip ashes with antler

[tall notch]

Psyche for mana makes sense. It's what she uses to increase her grasp which conceptually reminds me of increasing your magick pool

[glossy rivet]

i feel like even with apollo leg, 105% hera attack and explosive ambush i only get like 1k

[vital jackal]

If you plan for that boon it's pretty good

[tall notch]

If you are far enough into the game to be running antler builds you probably don't need the ashes that much and can take a different resource

[past pewter]

Are ashes not offered on single door rooms?

[spare kite]

Imo yeah? Like, with how every single boss loves to spawn enemies you can still use escalating but idk, is vibes lol

[past pewter]

Ig you have a billion rerolls now

[tall notch]

Yeah just reroll

[past pewter]

There’s no way 10 rerolls makes it into the full release

[tall notch]

Once you lock in your god pool antler can use its rerolls to avoid health pickups

[tall notch]

I mean you are dedicating a lot of arcana to have that so it's fine imo

[summer root]

Any silly build ideas for Pan?

[tall notch]

air fryer

[proven orbit]

I already willingly run boatman so it'd be 7 grasp for 10 rerolls

[summer root]

Hestia run?

[proven orbit]

Still need to upgrade all the cards though

[tall notch]

Hestia+Zeus+third god with air boon

[merry flint]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[summer root]

Should I do Zeus Special or Hestia Special?

[merry flint]

Nemesis showed up at Echo

[tall notch]

Hestia

[past pewter]

Does scorch ever increase the amount of damage it does on each tick

[summer root]

M'kay, I'll give it a shot!

[tall notch]

It interacts with air quality from Zeus

[summer root]

Pan is the only aspect that just feels odd to play for me so hopefully this helps

[past pewter]

Chiron but good

[summer root]

Chiron has it's moments

Get the flurry attack and you could spam Demeter and Dionysus its pretty silly

[past pewter]

Yeah it just needs 2 specific hammers and a specific epic Hermes boon

[summer root]

real

[spare kite]

Conc+swift flourish chiron moment

[tame vapor]

am i triping or is apollo infusion kinda crazy

i didnt pick it up cuz i had 0 fire but it seemed good

[sour cape]

30% dmg reduction is pretty good

[spare kite]

#h2-feedback message @dense girder not that the feedback is any wrong but for future reference
White - poly can eat them for hp
Black - they explode
Green - the ones that were killing you, the worst you can get by far.
Golden - create an anti projectile aura near them

[sour cape]

Not like insanely good or build defining

[sour cape]

Green sheep doing 12 dmg a hit and impossible to knock away 💀💀

[spare kite]

They are affected by the pact???

[past pewter]

Swear I’ve seen pink sheep but i could be tripping

[sour cape]

yea take more dmg

[spare kite]

Ewwww

[spare kite]

There are pink "sheep" (placeholder for pigs) in circe's island

[past pewter]

Ohh right

[sour cape]

how I lose 2 DDs to Poly with an op Momus build

had double moonshot and Poseidon epic

[spare kite]

Is still so funny having mel go "hi piggies"

And you just have 🐑

[past pewter]

It was so funny hearing mel with a low pitched voice

[spare kite]

High pitched mel is also hilarious

[ionic lily]

yeah the huge and tiny mel voices are hilarious

[spare kite]

Can't wait to reach the final boss like that and it kills all the hype

[ionic lily]

thats a strange way to spell 'enhance the experience'

[tall notch]

Is there fanart of huge Mel pinning Eris up against a wall? Asking for a friend

[past pewter]

And the opposite, asking for a friend as well

[glossy rivet]

ok apollo legendary explosive omega attack is cooking on artemis daggers

[spare kite]

Now I imagine meeting Persephone for the first time in H1 but high pitched zag

[tall notch]

I think we might have the same friend

[glossy rivet]

tfw artemis daggers can parry an aoe attack from chronos

[turbid hull]

Crazy because I think it's also my friend

Mini explanation of how Vow of Wandering works

For each region possessing a "Next Region" (Erebus, Oceanus, Fields and Ephyra), a set of enemies is chosen, each able to be changed into an enemy from the next Zone if lady luck wishes so. Here's the list:
Erebus:

• Whisper -> Wet-Whisper
• Wastrel -> Lurker
• Spindle -> Sop-Spindle
• Wailer -> Pinhead
• Casket -> Hippo
• Thorn-Weeper -> Shellback
  Oceanus:
• Lurker -> Mourner
• Hippo -> Lamia
• Pinhead -> Canine
• Shellback -> Bawlder
• Sea-Serpent -> Holeheart
• Wet-Whisper -> Blood-Shade
• Sop-Spindle -> Blight-Shade
  Fields:
• Smacker -> Numbskull
• Holeheart -> Tempus
• Mourner -> Wretched Thug
• Lamia -> Satyr Hoplite
  Ephyra:
• Bronzebeak -> Seesword
• Eidolon -> Stickler
• Shambler -> Droplet
• Tombestone -> Anchor
• Lubber -> Harpy Talon
• Cutthroat -> Boozer

(sorry not sorry for long explanations)

[spare kite]

Digi-evolution type of changes lmao

[merry flint]

Boozer

urgh

having to take side paths because i need elements for coarse grit because nemesis drove away echo and fields only had 1 god total

[glossy rivet]

RNfates have made this possible

[past pewter]

What % of the time do you see story rooms for each biome

[merry flint]

its almost like 80-90 it feels like

I get Arachne Echo and Dad all the time

which is nice tbh i can plan around them that way

[past pewter]

Big increase from h1 then

[merry flint]

Had to deal with rat master miniboss with revanants on

[ionic lily]

is it even possible for hades to not appear in tartarus?

[past pewter]

Yeah

[merry flint]

1st tartarus run should be hard coded not to appear

[desert mountain]

Really? I'm pretty sure I saw him in my first Tartarus run

[merry flint]

damn rerolls

just gave me the same boons and i had to pick rare crop right before chronos

[past pewter]

blessed

i hope crop isnt bugged in this game again

[merry flint]

got coarse grit active in chronos shop

last earth boon left in demeter's stock

[woeful gust]

Can I run the hera keepsake going the chronos route? (I should just try it but not by my machine)

[merry flint]

god keepsakes should force the 1st boon sideroom to be hera

[floral steppe]

So, I haven’t figured this out still, figure I’d ask: for the Polyphemus fight, what do the sheep with the magic circle around them do?

[spare kite]

Blocks projectiles

[eager ivy]

did anyone find a way to use Rev's aspect of medea properly? cuz I cant find a way to use it efficiently compared to the other two... mainly cuz using attacks stops you and its easily punished.

[bleak night]

try doing attack-special taps, they're close to instant

[tall notch]

Not my playstyle at all so I can't give tips but it's a speedrun beast from what I have seen

[bleak night]

load one at a time in melee range

It doesn't really say anything specifically about special'ing into your target causing it to detonate early iirc

[tall notch]

What I can tell you is... do yourself a favour and try to skip Oceanus elite, Medea is atrocious at dealing with the serpent

[lavish hatch]

I had the Attack fires as a cluster, which insta charged all three

[tall notch]

The wording had something along the lines of "on impact" in it

[lavish hatch]

And Aphrodite for lots of damage, you are always close

[bleak night]

I'll take a recording, gimme a sec

[eager ivy]

so unless I get the cluster attack ^ there isnt really a good way to use all three charges per special

[bleak night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238124170282532944/1243937802530455572/Medealoop.mp4?ex=66534adb&is=6651f95b&hm=ee969c6f58856a291b79c8dbc712a4dc7a4461ad081680911eba85e9aa6ca968& Here's the basic loop for it

[tall notch]

A single charge does good enough damage

This aspect hits super hard

[lusty heron]

btw how are you playing with eos do you just dash as needed or try to maximisze the grow time ?

and how important would you say is upgrading the aspect ?

[eager ivy]

im guessing aphrodite attack is the best option or are there any that work with it?

[summer root]

Finished the pan run boy that weapon feels awkward to use

[tall notch]

If I'm playing passion dash I'll dash on cd, otherwise I'll do it when I need to dodge something/run into a revenant. As of your other question, it'll be a big deal for damage output but you can learn the general playstyle at level 1

[lusty heron]

ok so basically you just play it like fists in hades 1 yeah that sounds fun

[summer root]

it do just be fists

[ionic lily]

personally, I would still prefer eos level 1 over the other torch aspects level 5

[glad sphinx]

How so? It’s great for high DPS

[tall notch]

If you wanna see what the playstyle looks like I'll shamelessly plug my youtube channel where I have like 5 Eos videos up rn https://www.youtube.com/@coldshade8186

[summer root]

It did do high damage but the setup felt awkward to do I guess its because I couldnt get a magicka regen so I had to suffer with Apollo's regen in a cast

[tall notch]

I don't like Pan very much because the early game can feel like a slog, but if I make it to fields I'm usually having a great time past that point

[glad sphinx]

Pan: Demeter cast so enemies stay put, then launch your omega special with a curse boon to also trigger Origination (P-Stat). BOOM

[lusty heron]

i am enjoying them my problem is more knowledge stuff like what boons do i want on attack

[summer root]

So far the most fluid weapon has been the torches for me

[glad sphinx]

It reminds me of my favourite bow aspect in Hades I

[summer root]

The staff is also pretty safe it feels, Axe is like a 75 25 for me

[tall notch]

Hera is probably best, hitch is amazing and it's got solid scaling

[glad sphinx]

Ah yes, a mana regen is crucial for Pan

[lusty heron]

does the backstab from apollo work with it ?

[tall notch]

Hera core boons have the 2nd best scaling after Aphro (which is conditional so not as consistent)

[summer root]

The only weapon I genuinely cant get behind is the Skull?

[tall notch]

I heard it bugs out, haven't tested myself

[glad sphinx]

I get my fastest clears with the Skull

[summer root]

Specifically Medea, as the damage is great but you are very very vulnerable

Persephone is probably my favorite to run with hitch if I can get the hammers I want

[tall notch]

Persephone Zeus cast builds are what I've had best experiences with out of everything skull... which is a build that barely uses the skulls once you're out of Erebus lol

[summer root]

Yeah I dont use the skulls every I feel like which sucks

Only on Medea I do because you get them back so easy

[tall notch]

Persephone really is just a stat stick for it. But i've been experimenting with antler Mel skulls with the 5 ammo hammer!

[turbid hull]

[lusty heron]

also the hammer that makes your attack omega be one big hit feels so horribly bad to play with eos xD

[tall notch]

It could work

[summer root]

real

[lusty heron]

i gambled with it hoping it would work better was like my second chronos kill

[tall notch]

I've been able to make it hit hard but it doesn't feel good to play at all

[lusty heron]

yeah it also hit hard for me but its horrible gameplay wise

[ionic lily]

yeah, dire candle is terrible with eos

[lusty heron]

it should just start normal attacking after it fired

[tall notch]

I really like the fire rate in exchange for movement speed hammer

[lusty heron]

and not just stopping

[ionic lily]

probably the worst thing is that you stop firing after the big omega attack

[lusty heron]

its kinda like how bad heph sprint feels

[civic ocean]

Are you ready for the code diving question of the day

[merry flint]

Finally done with Torches

[turbid hull]

do tell

[tall notch]

Now you can push 32 fear with them

[merry flint]

sobbign

[civic ocean]

What are the chances to encounter Nemesis, Heracles, Artemis, or Icarus? Are there any mechanical requirements or certain rooms that they can appear in?

[turbid hull]

will try to check whenever I'm done with Vows

I already have to deal with 2 unused vows

[merry flint]

are they any better than the current ones (no need to say what they are)

[turbid hull]

imo they're interesting

[civic ocean]

Two unused vows eh, I think that makes sense, We're missing the miniboss buffer and the boss buffer

[merry flint]

fair nuff

[turbid hull]

I won't tell what they are, but I already have an idea

[blissful wren]

@balmy swift give up the ones, not having sorceress sucks but dds and strength is more important

[balmy swift]

I'm gonna try it, but my problems on the one costs, is the swift runner, I feel like I need the better dash for 32 fear runs.

[tall notch]

You kinda want both so the optimal way of running antler rn is an extra save file

[tall notch]

You can live without the dash at 32 but it sure is nice to have

There is a bit of a trade-off since your dash without swift runner has more iframes (you get iframes during the wind-up iirc)

[rain hazel]

Is it just me or are the torches aim assist not great?

[tall notch]

Because of the different amount of iframes, it took me a while to learn new dash when it came out lol

[ashen sinew]

any good build with the torch?

[glad sphinx]

Hey! Good to see you in here, too! (After TOTK)

[turbid hull]

oml merry

the world is small

[glad sphinx]

Yah! Good taste in games unites!

You planning on doing a similarly deep weapon/damage analysis for Hades II?

[turbid hull]

already started to scrap the surface

[glad sphinx]

Yeassss 🔥

[turbid hull]

hopefully no funky 1.326856 spear mult here

[glad sphinx]

😂

[lusty heron]

Huh why ?

[merry flint]

one of the files hasn't bought Centaur

🧠

[lusty heron]

Ohh i see

I thought i was for non maxed cat

Yeah sounds like something for feedback

[bleak night]

What is? Unawakening cards ?

[merry flint]

ngl idk why they don't work like 'if you have their activation conditions, they can be selected'

rather than 'if at any point their activation conditions are fulfilled they're on'

[tall notch]

It'd make sense for them to work that way

[lusty heron]

And changing the level of cards

Like for the timeslow on omega cast

[civic ocean]

Idk I like how the 0 card system works

[tall notch]

Antler gamers don't

The fact that I'd have to play on a whole other save file to be optimal is just bad

[eager ivy]

0 card system?

[civic ocean]

Yeah but Antler, being a like 40% crit chance build, like...should be difficult to play optimally, IMO. The specific interaction with Centaur, sure, that can be changed, but I don't think it's worth changing how the whole arcana system works so that Melvins can min max their white antler speedruns

[lusty heron]

Just make it able to be disabled when it springs active

No need to completely rework the system

[civic ocean]

Eh sure ig I don't like that but whatevs

[balmy swift]

Its not for speedrun, its more that for me what worked better for 32 fear is something like the speedrun build

[merry flint]

just rework antler (clueless)

there's like 50 conditions attached to make the best of it

[civic ocean]

The difference on Momus is running Swift Runner or not, right

[vapid grove]

got boundless flurry, concentrated flurry, spiral knives, fire ex, flame flourish, and pan... might actually beat chronos this time

[civic ocean]

You get a whole other save file just so you can run swift runner

[timber pawn]

East just watched your run, antler is really strong huh

[civic ocean]

He boomed me!

Antler is kinda electric yeah

[turbid hull]

I don't know the odds yet, don't know where it's handled, may be a gigantic uniform on a set pool of different room rewards once prereqs are processed. I did find some stuff about prereqs for Artemis though, if you're interested

[civic ocean]

Always interested in knowledge, oh echoing chocolate

[turbid hull]

Seems like the prereqs to get Arty is

• Having seen Arty intro atleast once in the whole save file (presumably, her first encounter is handled separately)
• Not having run into Arty in the current run
• Having a BiomeDepthCache >= 4 in the current run, unsure about what this is, maybe the number of "rooms" you cleared
• Not being in a Chaos Trial

[spare kite]

Biome depth is how many chambers you are in yeah (iirc)

A lot of stuff also worked like that for H1 (namely, Than spawning)

[turbid hull]

I can try to check the others

[civic ocean]

It doesn't seem like anything we can control sadly

[spare kite]

Oh yeah for trial rooms (2 gods, one gets mad)
Do you need hera unlocked for them to show up? Or are they just rare

[charred lintel]

i had one before hera

they're just rare

[turbid hull]

Also, Arty combat intro (e.g. first time) requires

• Not having seen Arty intro
• Not having encountered Arachne in the current run
• BiomeDepthCache >= 3
• Finished a run once (finished as in, victory or defeat. e.g. you can't get Arty on very first run)
• Having >= 10 HP
• Not being in a Chaos Trial

it also has a DifficultyModifier set to 40, supposedly to make the first Arty trial easier

[warped harness]

i dont understand why you cant cast during axe spin chargeup, but you can for every other chargeup

you can cast while doing torch stuff, dagger special charges, but not while charging the axe omega attack

[timber pawn]

You really got scammed out of that dd at the end of p1

[delicate spindle]

what is the X keep sake? its the only one i havent unlocked yet

[spare kite]

Echo's

[turbid hull]

Forgot something, but you need to also have gotten a dialog from 4 unique main gods

[delicate spindle]

cant gift echo

[turbid hull]

second time you can

[spare kite]

Talk > back off > approach again and gift

[bleak night]

People seem to not have Echo's a lot, does she have a glitch when it comes to not having a gift option ?

[turbid hull]

and yeah you need to talk to her first

[delicate spindle]

i have done 32 fear runs. i have encounted her many times. Never been able to gift her anything

[turbid hull]

hear her yappin, select your stuff and then try to gift

could be a glitch tho

[civic ocean]

Bro hit me with it again in p2

[timber pawn]

Ya but he was kind enough to put you right in antler range

[civic ocean]

You have to wait until after you've selected your boon from her, then you can gift her

[silent crow]

her narrative relies on her repeating the firsr thing you say so u have to gift after uve interacted

[warped harness]

ive been able to gift her, there isnt a keepsake that isnt unlockable

[bleak night]

Ah, fair

[timber pawn]

Cool in concept but it's gotten enough bad usability feedback I feel it may change

[warped harness]

east does silver wheel refill your mana bar instantly or does it fill at a set rate? @civic ocean

[civic ocean]

It's very fast regen afaik

[warped harness]

the echo keepsake?

[civic ocean]

No just the conditions to get it

[warped harness]

oh

[civic ocean]

It's no pausa all over again

[delicate spindle]

Got it, danke

[ashen sinew]

Guys any good build with the torch? 😦

[tame vapor]

#h2-builds-and-combat message

[delicate spindle]

Why does apollo give you speed to your sprint and not hermes?

[past pewter]

if hermes gave it then it would probably feel like a repeat of h1

[blissful wren]

hermes give sprint speed with nitroboost

[merry flint]

demeter freeze hera special

[eager ivy]

whats the easiest weapon to clear with? Im trying to clear with every arcana and I am struggling a bit

[merry flint]

momus

[delicate spindle]

Yes but why is that a problem? Hermes is the god of speed. Apollo has nothing to do with speed. Its like giving scorch to aphrodite

[merry flint]

poseidon special into legendary, look for double moonshot if you can

spam special

[lusty heron]

Probably like lightspeed ?

[eager ivy]

omega or normal?

[merry flint]

normal

[lusty heron]

Normal

[merry flint]

just spam special

[lusty heron]

And try to get poseidon special

[past pewter]

dunno then

[split igloo]

Literally grab posideon. Mash special. Kill everything

[merry flint]

get double moonshot and kill harder

[past pewter]

zeus is good too for his priming boon

[turbid hull]

Once I'll be done with basic god/helper boon/offer data, I'll try to figure out how Poms interact with them

[civic ocean]

Hermes...does give a sprint speed boost?

Apollo makes you run faster because he is mythologically the perfect athletic youth and those tend to run fast

[merry flint]

i wish all the sprints came with minor speed increases

[blissful wren]

same

[civic ocean]

Apollo doesn't do anything particularly badly either, which again, is narratively accurate

[ionic lily]

He's also the god of light, and light is pretty fast too

[tall notch]

Pink aura

[bleak night]

Pink Aura

[past pewter]

nyaanyaa would be proud

[delicate spindle]

does he throw plagues on humanity for fun?

[sour cape]

I don think he ever did it for fun

Bout the only plague I remember was vs the Greeks at Troy and they ransacked his temple

[stable sable]

I'm gonna say it: the daedalus icarus hammer upgrades for torch attacks all seem incredibly weak

Especially since torch attack has low base damage and the hammer upgrades add like 10-15% iirc

[sour cape]

There is the 3 specials per omega

that was kinda nice

Torch seems to do pretty good dmg but its no stagger

[stable sable]

Me when I'm a weapon with a single good hammer

[sour cape]

Well thats why everyone hates the Torch

[past pewter]

does torch attack do anything ever

[mystic bison]

Eos isn't really hammer dependant

[stable sable]

Eos

[mint lotus]

need some help with nemeia aspect, i do no damage

[past pewter]

ive only used mel aspect

[mint lotus]

medeia*

[mystic bison]

Mel aspect you spam special and omega special

[stable sable]

Sure but imagine if Eos or torches in general had hammers nearly as broken as almost every other weapon

[mystic bison]

Yeah hammers in general have to be rebalanced, most weapon have like 2 god tier hammers and the others are either mid or useless for that particular build

[past pewter]

tbf that was the case in h1 lmao

[spare kite]

Hammer balance is always weird

[mystic bison]

H1 weapons aren't that hammer dependent imo

[past pewter]

they def are for the most part

[sour cape]

Nah some weapons wete pretty hammer reliant

[past pewter]

on sword u basically need double edge to do damage unless ur running ME

[sour cape]

Chiron wanted hammers too

[mystic bison]

Nemesis can also work without double edge

[past pewter]

it works but its not good

[blissful wren]

h1 hammers were really good but its consistantly good hammers so maybe thats why they felt less depandant

[mystic bison]

I just don't think hammers in Hades 1 were as run defining as they are here

[stable sable]

Descura hammers: hey want double your omega atk? Or double your special? Or double your normal attack?
Zorephet hammers: hey want to charge your whirling death mvoe twice as fast? Want it to also deal almost double damage ad well as hit way more enemies now?
Lim and Oros hammers: hey want double your special damage? And how about your special now also shooting over double it's projectiles? Or alternatively just go ham with attacks?
Revaal hammers: idfk man they don't seem that good to me tbh
Ygnium hammers: hey wanna ruin your build?

[sour cape]

Its like whirlwind without fastee omega attack

[mystic bison]

If you are running spinning axe here, might as well give up on the run if you fail to secure fast channel hammer

[past pewter]

its the same in h1

[mystic bison]

In Hades 1 you can win even without double edge

[past pewter]

you can win with anything

[mystic bison]

Only spear is the big outlier in hammer dependance

[bleak night]

just use the tools you find tbh

[stable sable]

That sounds like a differential in skills

[tired fulcrum]

And you can win without double channel speed speen, its just more annoying

[past pewter]

yeah

[bleak night]

I won a 40+ Axe run on a whirl build with a Special Omega chargetime reduc

[stable sable]

I find zorephet omega attack to be able to clear easily almost every run

[mystic bison]

It's a nightmare on 40 speed

[sour cape]

Special omega charge so nice

[bleak night]

I was using Than tho

[sour cape]

Oh 😭😭

[tired fulcrum]

Flurry jab and explosive launcher/cskewer has left the chat

[sour cape]

hey crit specials are pretty nice!

[bleak night]

it never crit that whole fight

[stoic ridge]

Man i wish we could pick a gaurenteed hammer before every run instead of finding them, or atleast reroll hammers

[stable sable]

[bleak night]

I was kinda really surprised to find out that Heph boons can crit

I had Heph on my Shield tap and it did 950 damage on Eris

[past pewter]

can vent crit

[tired fulcrum]

Prolly

[past pewter]

sheesh

[cursive gate]

what's this OP momus build I've been hearing about?

[mystic bison]

Poseidon on special that's the build

[blissful wren]

any damage can crit except maybe scorch

[sour cape]

Poseidon + Doubleshot

[cursive gate]

oh lol thought there was more to it, thanks

[sour cape]

No, its good cos tons of dmg for low investment

and not mana reliant 😎😎

[floral steppe]

Plus get the reroll Arcana and the Poseidon keepsake and you can basically force it

[mystic bison]

Get poseidon special, go for poseidon legendary, and get a cast with a curse (Hestia, Demeter, Aphro etc) to proc origination

[tired fulcrum]

Scorch internal damage can

[upper trellis]

Bruh. Welp round 2. Rate the cook

Melinoe Sister Blades
Atk: Zeus
Dash: Aphro
Special: Hera
Cast: Aphro+Zeus Lightning Lance
Zeus Chain Lightning Prime
Stack Weak bonuses
Duos: Zeus+Aphro and Hera+Aphro
Hammer: Backstab Bonus

Consistently backstab and it will rip through waves and bosses.

[civic ocean]

There is more to it here's the guide https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml

[cursive gate]

Nice thanks

[timber pawn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233146305308528650/1243963598892568757/image.png?ex=665362e1&is=66521161&hm=dec975090209bcd6630edaed2cb6dcb6ba125edd55c27b2f3e1f74f75a8aaab4& first antler run, this build was literally just stormring/local climate. I got forced into taking rare crop right before Chronos which downgraded my storm ring but it was still okay

[civic ocean]

nice WABSing

[timber pawn]

truly

[tall notch]

It's WABSing time

[timber pawn]

I was going for coarse grit from the Chronos shop but got the rare crop instead

[civic ocean]

rare ionic gain sighting

[timber pawn]

I also got forced into that lmao

thank god I had gotten hermes omega cast 50% cost. I didnt have a gain until Tart, when I got forced into ionic

I really do not think the game wanted me to win this one haha

[bleak night]

play attack speed Mel staff meme build pls

[tall notch]

Play pink aura

[bleak night]

Poseidon Special is also pink aura, technically

Since the orbs are also pink for some reason

[tall notch]

Huh

[bleak night]

pink with like this blue glow

[tall notch]

New pink aura meta? Surely the blasts stagger

[bleak night]

Oh ?

[tall notch]

I mean idk if they do

But they should

[civic ocean]

I think Poseidon has a pretty brutal ICD on mel torches

[bleak night]

Worth a shot when doing meme runs then

[timber pawn]

I actually had a couple attack hammers on this run, could've done it, smh

[bleak night]

I saw the Double Wallop, yeah

I like grabbing that one for the fun of it

[turbid hull]

Did someone already get Crashing Wave at a higher rarity than Common?

[white steppe]

god i finally got the chronos torch bounty, what's a good 32 heat setup

is there a pinned one rather

[turbid hull]

Based on what I know, Rare+ Crashing Wave would either be non existent, or RNG-based for the value

[civic ocean]

mostly we just tell ppl to play pink aura

[exotic heath]

yeah rerolling hammers would be cool, i really wanted to try that twinshot poseidon build since i was struggling with my first clear, took me over 40 runs till i finally got that hammer :S
i cleared with something else before i got it but still rerolling would have helped

[wet nova]

Mods should allow this

In h1 there was a mod which let you choose the seed you started with, including hammers

[turbid hull]

anyone plz 😭

[wet nova]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/938077229206876223/1243969481693331527/image.png?ex=6653685c&is=665216dc&hm=2a0c7a71d6913bf5628d002701fbff48f3e1661e63fdaa572d03557e68b84715&

[civic ocean]

what do you mean like have people got crashing wave higher than common? I don't play lameo wave daddy

[wet nova]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16jTOWHeBRMTRoui75dLP0oU0tGQC-b0QO3KEWGp3YZI/edit#gid=61623334 check this if you wanna confirm other things

made by someone in discord I forgot who tho sry

[civic ocean]

PLEASE did you just show Echo her own sheet

LMAOOOOO

[wet nova]

Oh LOOL it’s by echo that’s who😭

I’m so out of the loop I just saw this link once and clicked on it lol

[blissful wren]

LMAO

[wet nova]

My bad🤣🤣

[turbid hull]

that's the data I put on the sheet based on what I suppose, but it would be nice to have it confirmed since it's a bit weird

[wet nova]

If you want to confirm, get common crashing wave and upgrade using fountain?

[civic ocean]

I think what Echo is alluding to is that something is different in the game code re: what rarity Crashing Wave is offered as a boon

[turbid hull]

I just wanna know if someone got a more than Common Crashing Wave in any way

[wet nova]

Just from Poseidon boon off the ground, pretty sure I’ve gotten rare before

[turbid hull]

Because the Rarity data is absent from it, meaning it would use the "default" rarity from the BaseTrait, which is a random inbetween for Rare, Epic and Heroic

[wet nova]

It just bumps the damage number for the crashing wave up afaik

[turbid hull]

why are there suddenly 4 pesons on my sheet

[white steppe]

32 fear momus setup pls

[silent crow]

i think i saw it in a yt video

[turbid hull]

Nice, then if possible I'd need to know the, or a value of Rare/Epic/Heroic

[civic ocean]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vS73iWzIxaOupBwoVUJPjxtmSJEtrlTnLh9GFJzTYblncgPo7Ka1J08JG7r-4k6qEPwOJWH_xfp4al2/pubhtml#

[white steppe]

ty

[civic ocean]

it's possible they got that crashing wave from a miniboss reward, too

[wet nova]

Do you know what the icon for it looks like?

[timber pawn]

I have gotten it but not recently unfortunately

[wet nova]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/938077229206876223/1243970718614687915/image.png?ex=66536983&is=66521803&hm=6d8d24c92cfb44d22d523821378a8578970a7ab627caf25d9b45f7e517a90085&

one of my runs, all poseidon stuff seems to be rare+

[turbid hull]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054902473707507743/1243970809882742844/image.png?ex=66536998&is=66521818&hm=b80f980aac272da6a005665cc8a53cf65bb08a67cf9092846c327961b619e4fa&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1440&height=372

Yeah, you definitely have a rare Crashing Wave

[wet nova]

then yh got rare in that pic it seems

[turbid hull]

now I just need to know a value for either rare epic and heroic

[wet nova]

Think rare was like 70 but don’t know anymore than that

[civic ocean]

gimme a bit

[turbid hull]

if my understanding is ok, it would be a 65 to 75 window

[wet nova]

It was definitely a number ending in 0 thats what I remember

[turbid hull]

Which would be the first time a non-Chaos Boon would have a RNG-determined number, I ran into, afaik

[bleak night]

Hell yeah.

[civic ocean]

DARRRREN

Trying to rush 2 posi boons for echo and I get KORBED

[bleak night]

I don't get the joke btw

like ik Darren Korb is the guy that makes the music and voices Zag

[turbid hull]

what's Darren

[civic ocean]

• I opined that perhaps Hexes are weaker because the best player on the SGG team is a Hex spammer

-Cold mentioned that internally apparently Darren has the best speedrun times

-Now when we get floor 1 hexed we yell DARREN KORB

[bleak night]

Darren Korb is the sound and voice director for the games, iirc? He also makes the bgms.

[bleak night]

Ooooh, I see

[turbid hull]

Oh you're right I just checked in the few Hades 1/2 OSTs I have in my spotify playlist

[spare kite]

Also skelly

[bleak night]

Oooh

[spare kite]

And singing voice of Orpheus

[mystic bison]

No way

[turbid hull]

Aight, let's start datamining charon

[warped harness]

do we start blaming all of the weak boons on darren korb finding a way to break them during pre early access /j

[civic ocean]

Just Selene starts

[warped harness]

😔

[tall notch]

I heard he played a lot of circe staff too

[warped harness]

i cant even say mean things man it's darren korb

dude's music and facial hair is insane how could you hate 😔

[turbid hull]

Charon's purple thingy doesn't have something that boosts regular Attacks?

[rain hazel]

Just took 60 damage from the giant bag mini boss in hte 4th area cuz theres no way to dodge it once the pillars are down 🙃

[civic ocean]

Okay I've got an epic Crashing Wave here that says 93 on it

[turbid hull]

Yay, I predicted between 90 and 100!

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1243974529051791380/image.png?ex=66536d0f&is=66521b8f&hm=5390dcbb37bdde3aed5a61ae36c7f035f5baec8618b6abb6515c91db4cac2054&

[turbid hull]

Tysm 🙏

[tall notch]

I've only seen an omega move thing

[civic ocean]

rarifies to 119

[turbid hull]

So it's technically another non linear Boon

[turbid hull]

predicted between 115 and 125

[civic ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241160250829049909/1243974764339662968/image.png?ex=66536d47&is=66521bc7&hm=d1d39313909d197c8ad60052bacc910b90d623d385274886b4c743de7562a9ef&

[turbid hull]

there's Special, Cast, Omega Damage

[civic ocean]

narratively it appears that Eris is eating it in the Crossroads

[tall notch]

Oh yeah those too but I've not seen regular attack

[warped harness]

^

[tall notch]

Will she share some if Mel asks nicely? 🥺

[mystic bison]

You don't need to dodge it, you have to go behind it

[civic ocean]

Cyclops Jerky is what it was in Hades 1, and perhaps they thought that a bit unsettling given that Polyphemus is in this game

[mystic bison]

Gold bag miniboss is free

[civic ocean]

it's not very free for melee builds if you get coined

[mystic bison]

The coins disappear eventually

[warped harness]

mel chomping on cyclops jerkey in front of poly

[spare kite]

Eris ate them all (yeah cyclops jerkie isn't in charon wells rn)

[mystic bison]

But yeah ranged is even easier

[white steppe]

does wayward son work with maxed vow of scars?

[turbid hull]

gotcha

[spare kite]

Nah

[civic ocean]

So the question for you is, does such an item exist in the code?

[turbid hull]

mmmmmmmaybe

[warped harness]

is there any rule against sharing stuff in the scripts that isnt in the game

[civic ocean]

The mods have asked us not to directly post code in here IIRC

[turbid hull]

Yeah. Although I should probably not reveal directly what's in the game files but not in the game yet

[warped harness]

it may be a spoiler so i get it

[turbid hull]

It's mostly by respect for the devs. If it's not currently in game but in game files, they have a reason

[rain hazel]

So looked like I was in the circle for chronos but apparently wasnt...but think I got him figured out finally.

[turbid hull]

By the way, the Charon Well 20% speed buff is multiplicative

[civic ocean]

is this unique to other speed buffs

[warped harness]

why is the charon speed so cheap

[turbid hull]

long too

[warped harness]

i love it for that

[spare kite]

Now they should bring back rush delivery

[turbid hull]

Unsure, but they don't have the specific thing that states Charon Well 20% speed is multiplicative

It basically takes the Speed stat of the player and multiplies it by 1.2, if I understand everything well

[tall notch]

So same as hades1

[warped harness]

after other effects like apollo?

[turbid hull]

I would assume before

[timber pawn]

Does it affect anything other than move speed?

[turbid hull]

No

[fringe lichen]

best skulls build?