h2-discussion

[severe wagon]

think i got it, thought i had a bit more time to activate nightspawn after impact but im getting it to work

thankyou!

[craggy totem]

It's 2s 5s, it says so in the tooltip

Not sure what exactly I was thinking of, 2s only would be pretty bad 🤔 but it does say the exact duration in the tooltip, you just have to hover over the keyword

[jaunty gazelle]

100% both Hades games as of yesterday night

funniest part is only thing barring me was not being able to fish for Poseidon's quest

[heady rampart]

Is there a reason why Tartarus level 4 is written as IIII instead of the more conventional IV?

[jaunty gazelle]

yknow i was wondering the same lol

[heady rampart]

Just for the Chronos watch face aesthetic?

[bitter stirrup]

Apparently clocks use IIII

[heady rampart]

That is what gemini says lol

[gaunt glacier]

https://newgateworld.com/blogs/style/should-it-be-iiii-or-iv-on-a-clock-dial

[queen cosmos]

I hath been summoned

WHO MORTAL DARE SUMMON THEE

[green tapir]

@dusky kestrel @delicate oracle @zealous cape
Dear Supergiant Games team,
First of all, I want to sincerely thank you for creating Hades II. You managed to make a game that stands as a worthy successor to the first one, which was already fantastic, but with this one you exceeded every expectation I had.
I have played all of your games, and Bastion always had a very special place in my heart. Somehow, Hades II managed to take that place too.
I’ve been playing games since I was 3 years old, so for about 35 years now, literally. For a long time I used to think about making games myself, but I’m way too lazy for something like that xD. Still, I honestly think that if I ever did, they would probably be something very similar in spirit to your games.
The sound design is exceptional, and I do not even need to start on the soundtracks, which I keep coming back to and listening to again and again. The effects are amazing, the art direction is an absolute feast for the eyes, the visuals are stunning, and the controls feel so precise that at times I genuinely could not believe how much care and craftsmanship had gone into them.

[queen cosmos]

Wtf

[green tapir]

The lore of the game also meant a lot to me. I should mention that I am Greek, with a deep love for our mythology, and I actually live right below Mount Olympus, more specifically at a crossroads in the middle of nowhere, a bit like Melinoë xD. Because of that, your work honestly made me feel both proud and a little ashamed at the same time — proud because it is such a beautiful tribute, and ashamed because a foreign studio created something with such endless love and respect for our mythology, while we unfortunately have no local studio that has done something like this ourselves. Yes, there are a few tiny inaccuracies here and there, but they are so minor that they are not even worth mentioning compared to the incredible work you did overall.
I first played and finished the game back when it was still in beta, and I loved it even then. Later, when the full version came out, I was busy with other titles and had not gone back to it immediately. But I picked it up again a week ago, and I have been completely obsessed with it ever since.
The reason I wanted to send this message is simple: just like it feels good when someone notices and appreciates the work I put into something, I wanted to do the same for you. I wanted to congratulate you and tell you to please keep doing what you are doing, because you are doing it more than well. You deserve every award you win.
Congratulations again, and thank you for creating something this special.
Please share it with the rest of the team!
With appreciation,
A Greek fan

[queen cosmos]

WTF

A love letter mmmmm

[green tapir]

an appreciation letter tbh!

[queen cosmos]

Same thing

[green tapir]

hmmm true close at least

[ebon sigil]

I'm watching asmond gold play hades 2 from a year ago, the game has changed a TON! Zeus's ring used to only do omega casts, and ionic gain used to just be a passive magic regen but capped your magic... is there a list of all the changes somewhere?

staff special looks really different too

[cursive nacelle]

you could use the wayback machine on the hades 2 wiki?

[ebon sigil]

soot sprint used to eat up projectiles... that's interesting

[cursive nacelle]

ares used to function like born gain except it primed health instead

[ebon sigil]

😬

[cursive nacelle]

yeah not many fans of that lol

zeus sprint used to cost mana every time it did a bolt

[ebon sigil]

they tweaked a TON of things then, almost feels like a different game

[cursive nacelle]

yeah a decent amount of boons got changed over time

the core identity of gods have stayed basically the same tho

[ebon sigil]

I sah him do this weird special hammer that did specials in a rapid fire, it looked like a flame thrower with hesita... but it wasn't doing much damage.

[cursive nacelle]

which weapon?

[cunning laurel]

https://steamdb.info/app/1145350/patchnotes/ you can read patch notes on steamdb

[ebon sigil]

staff, it looks like it used to be semi seaking missiles

[cursive nacelle]

oh yeah it was pretty bad, so happy they changed it to the instant projectile

oh yeah felt like a way worse version of the current omega special on staff

also flames used to be super giga awful in early access

flame attack base hits dealt 10 dmg, the omegas dealt 50, the projectiles were super slow. If you dashed your omega reset completely and it took 3 attacks before it would become an omega

[ebon sigil]

channeling axe special, did that used to be a block?

looks kind of like coat omega attack

[cunning laurel]

yea it was weird

[cursive nacelle]

yeah it blocked and dealt no dmg only the omega did damage

which was odd, but the new version definitely feels more fluid

and makes multi hit boons not completely worthless on axe

also i think it had a bit of a delay before it actually blocked which made it feel fairly akward.

Axe in general was pretty bad up until the very last patch before release.

base dmg was just too low compared to how slow it is. Axe is still the worst weapon, but not by an insane amount anymore

[ebon sigil]

Hel skulls feel pretty bad to me, but maybe I just need to get a broken build going on it

[cunning laurel]

okay blades is easily worse than axe

[ebon sigil]

I want to like blades, but I also don't like them

I had a decent thing going the other day with low recharge heph and got his legendary on the morrigan.

[cursive nacelle]

morrigan slaps super hard.

regular blades are pretty good especially with scorch/poseidon on attack

[ebon sigil]

was coat the same way back when?

[cursive nacelle]

coat has been basically the same since forever i believe

also you had to stand in your cast when it expired to get mana from apollos gain

which was really rough

[ebon sigil]

man, some of the magic stuff was rough back then

Heph had something called vent, 5 second curse and then another bonk... that sounds way better than glow

[dim kernel]

Yeah but if you hit another blast before the timer it would reset

So actually it did nothing

[ebon sigil]

why can't we have fun sometimes

[dim kernel]

If taking a boon that does literally nothing is fun
Power surge is still in the game if you're interested

[ebon sigil]

no I mean it should've let us stack vents and not reset it.

[dim kernel]

Alright that wouldve just been busted

[ebon sigil]

I really like origination in the game, so easy to apply long lasting curses are nice to me, and God's that don't help you curse easily I struggle to find a place for them in my builds.

[open nimbus]

Hel skull is bad but if you wanna make it work... poseidon attack is the way. And keep your ospecial out as much as possible for max damage

[open nimbus]

Power surge has a niche on staff with mirrored thrasher

[ebon sigil]

I'm addicted to jeweled pom, so it's left to rng for me.

[open nimbus]

Makes it busted

I havent taken off jpom in like, 300 runs haha

[ebon sigil]

you can take it off safely after the first location and you keep the benefits as long as you don't choose anything that breaks fates whim

[open nimbus]

Yep well aware 🙂

[cursive nacelle]

hel skull is one of my favorites, getting poseidon attack, slippery slope, combined with static shock + air quality from zeus. And if youre really lucky support fire from artemis can make you melt bosses in less than 10 seconds

ive had a chronos fight take 17 seconds flat including his transitions

[ebon sigil]

How does Hel special work, can you recast it when it's out or have to wait for it to come back? Also, omega special seemed bugged to me, like I couldn't cast omega special twice in a row, but had to do a normal special inbetween for it to trigger another ospecial and therefore another valkery

[cursive nacelle]

you can only cast it again once the skull returns

[ebon sigil]

I'm weird but I like using ospecial with medea skull just because ospecial gives you iframes

[cursive nacelle]

thats fair although i dunno why youd do that specifically with medea

all non-special skull have iframes

[ebon sigil]

Yeah, I love all the skulls ospecial for the iframes

[cursive nacelle]

i like doing special builds with persephone skull because with the increased duration and a sharp turn you can actually hit the same enemy twice, sometimes 3 times with a single cast of ospecial

[ebon sigil]

I'm not sure which skull I like better, base or persephone when I'm running jpoms... jpom gives a ton of poms, not sure more is necessary

[cursive nacelle]

getting a +9 from the get go is funny

[ebon sigil]

I tried a run without jpom, and it felt weak

[cursive nacelle]

the poms from persephone are a lil unreliable 50/50 on it giving +0

[ebon sigil]

how many poms can you get with heph legendary persephone

I'm still hunting for the most broken level 6 weapon

[cunning laurel]

its probably momus

persephone is +9 at lvl 6

[ebon sigil]

I stuggled with momus, doing all those omega's was hard to position myself... probably skill issue, but when it's popping damage it's popping

I forgot what my build was with EOS the other day, but I melted surface boss like he barely got one attack off before phasing to the next

I think it was some zeus hestia demeter with all the duos build.

[cursive nacelle]

i like going demeter on momus since enemies are frozen for 2 seconds and the recast time is 2 seconds youll always land atleast 2 omegas

[ebon sigil]

k, demeter then I'll be on the lookout

[cursive nacelle]

also she has that boon that increases omega dmg in exchange for mana cost

[ebon sigil]

I want to get good at anubis... that is another one I haven't figured out yet

[cursive nacelle]

absolutely banging on staff in general

anubis is scorch or demeter

scorch procs every hit from anubis so its basically infinite

[ebon sigil]

I think I had a build with hestia on attack and cast with anubis and I saw 999 scorch on chronos

[cursive nacelle]

if you then have freezer burn(demeter+hestia)

2k dmg everytime easy

[ebon sigil]

cool

what's the best pet for circe staff... is it the bird?

[cursive nacelle]

people like bird because it moves by itself on top of enemies yeah

[ebon sigil]

That darn cat is nowhere to be found when I need her.

[cursive nacelle]

yeah she loves sleeping in useless places

real cat hours

[ebon sigil]

i wake her up first thing in the level, and then who knows if I see her again

also doesn't she only wake up when you rush next to her, sprinting and attacking not good enough?

[cursive nacelle]

yep rushing only

i basically only use frinos

[ebon sigil]

yeah, if she woke up if you did literally anything next to her, that would be easier to play with

[cursive nacelle]

+40 hp my beloved

[ebon sigil]

I kinda like the dog so I don't worry about magic for the run

[cursive nacelle]

thats fair

i usually just take silver wheel on the 2nd region if want mana

[ebon sigil]

i'm still mid game... I'm down to 3 weapons left to do a 20 fear run with... haven't uncovered the last statue yet

haven't done any decorating yet

or am I end game since I'm done upgrading all weapons and found the fates.

[cursive nacelle]

finding the fates is the story end

[open nimbus]

Last week was hel week for the speed runners. This was my run @ebon sigil https://youtu.be/4gqrTZs06Xk?si=pSQJby3drvOP4kYS

[cursive nacelle]

but theres still character arcs and stories you might not have done

[ebon sigil]

yeah I'm still working through some relatinships and some hidden side stories I think.

[open nimbus]

I actually ended up with static shock too lol

[ebon sigil]

my fastest was 19 minutes... so I'm no where near your level yet

[jolly hound]

save like 7 minutes per run with this one easy trick (it’s frenzy 2)

[ebon sigil]

yeah, my run will be over 7 minutes faster because I die in act 2 instead of finishing the run

[open nimbus]

Thats what we all thought until someone casually got sub 5 with no frenzy

[ebon sigil]

I've still yet to clear rivals 4 surface... tried it once, died instantly when I was poly'd... wasn't sure what was going on.

[open nimbus]

(It was Fate of course)

[cunning laurel]

hyped for fate to pb for than week

[jolly hound]

Yeah here’s the way to learn frenzy 2

1. Turn on frenzy 1
2. Lose like 10-20 times
3. Have a blowout win that you didn’t know you were capable of
4. Turn on frenzy 2
5. Lose like 10-20 times
6. Win one barely and think ok maybe I got this
7. Now 12 fear is free (timer with frenzy 2 is irrelevant)

[ebon sigil]

hmm... I dunno... I've taken some surprise face damage from frenzy 1... frenzy 2 scary

[jolly hound]

You’re still in phase 2 then, that’s fine

Addendum: when you start doing rivals 4, take the losses, don’t shut off frenzy

will prob be another 10 chronos losses and 5 typhons to get rivals 4 down but then you have rivals 4 frenzy 2 and timer 3 which is 21 of the hardest fear now the game is easy

[ebon sigil]

you make it sound so easy.

I've beaten rival chronos twice, but lost to him 3 times... still learning that fight.

I'm also still trying to figure out how to not narrowly lose to rivals poly, eris, and prom every so often.

Poly and Eris can surprise me sometimes if I'm not careful and didn't pick up health

Prom just hits you with BS sometimes

[glass cloud]

chat. i love hades 2

[jolly hound]

It’s easy now because I’ve done the process I outlined, lose a lot and just get better each time. Losing 50 times is part of the process. If you’re not interested in pushing fear then ignore me, but if you are this is how it’s gonna go to get the hang of frenzy and time and that’s 12 fear so it’s worth the investment

For rivals fights on surface; poly if you get hit with poison don’t panic just take a damage or two and make your way to a fountain, don’t panic is the point

Eris, you can dash through the lasers, do that; it gets way harder if you can’t easily blow up her balls

Prom yeah that’s just a hard fight, hitch highly recommended, and only one of them is gonna be super aggressive at a time

[elfin heron]

isn't Rivals Prom harder with hitch? you'll phase both of them

[jolly hound]

Meaning they die faster meaning they have less time to kill you

Yes, the phases get wonky, but ideally you’re phasing Heracles while prom is firing his first round of blue fire and finishing him with the second. That doesn’t happen often but that’s best case

[elfin heron]

the big man will be in his spin to win phase while you're trying to dodge the second foresight, I imagine it's annoying af with frenzy 2

[jolly hound]

if he’s spinning then run the hell away haha

[elfin heron]

yeah but you also have to dodge 5 flames that deal 100 dmg each

[slim pike]

Think fast

[jolly hound]

Yeah thats not a problem he hasn’t hit me in like 50 tries now

This is gonna sound goofy but when you get a two factor authentication code to your phone try to memorize it and do it without looking, it’s the same brain muscle as dodging fire

[elfin heron]

I pause the game after each prediction and say it outloud, top top bottom middle middle etc

it's foolproof, but a little lame, feels like I'm cheating a little

[jolly hound]

Oh I don’t pause I beat up Heracles and call it out (I use 1/2/3, 1 being closest to prom but do whatever works)

My gf knows me calling out random numbers to my cat means I’m fighting Prometheus

[elfin heron]

though, if you have dark side, just literally tank it

stand in the first one, then activate the hex

[jolly hound]

or parry it with aspect of Artemis

Or lunar ray free armor will parry a hit

[elfin heron]

Artemis is just 1 second of invulnerability, so you can only parry 1

[jolly hound]

Also it’s only 60 damage if you use strength

[elfin heron]

I guess you can also just learn to dash it, but idk, wish there was a practice mode, don't want to intentionally throw a run

[elfin heron]

yeah I know, I only play strength, but just saying 100 because a lot of people play Death

anywho, my point was the fight gets harder if both Prom and the big man reach their phase 2's

it's kind of like the heroes in the first game, you want to focus the big guy first, then deal with the other one

[jolly hound]

oh tbh with hordes 3 wards 2 revanants 2 on I prob have 90 seconds for that fight usually I’m not going one at a time

[slim pike]

Why are you doing those vows?

[broken creek]

its super easy to kite Heracles around to not be a problem and even then you dont have to actually remember the flame pattern

just like remember a couple and iframe the rest its never a big deal, if anything i see the prom phases as heracles damage openings

[jolly hound]

Commitment to the bit

and cause denial pisses me off and cause forfeit makes it harder to save scum good starts cause I’m down to the last 6 45 fear runs and those aspects are the last 6 for a reason

[round minnow]

there needs to be an achievement for having ||Toula|| deal the final blow on ||Cerberus|| lol

[dull pike]

Wait Mel doesn't get to || see the actual house of Hades??? :((|| I was hoping they'd let us walk around

[timid hatch]

To be fair... ||It's probably in need of a lot of renovations||

[elfin heron]

they let you walk around ||for a bit during the ending||

[dull pike]

THAT'S IT?? COME ON!!

[prime iron]

so how does one uh

[dull pike]

On a less dissapptong note I really like unrivaled Scylla she's so funny

[prime iron]

||avoid getting one hit by chronos||

[dull pike]

The normal fight or unrivaled?

[prime iron]

normal, first clear

[dull pike]

oh. that's easy ||when the screen turns red there's a circle somewhere on the stage that's not red. run to it as fast as you can||

[prime iron]

that means theres a not easy version??

fun fun

[dull pike]

oh yea baby. did you play hades I? after you clear it you get the oppourtunity to boost the difficulty in various ways for rewards and that includes boosting the boss's difficulty. (is that a spoiler?)

[prime iron]

yup!

||ik its called vow of rivals||

[dull pike]

pact of punishment and all - remember extreme measures?

[prime iron]

cant wait for it

yeee i get the gist :3

[timid hatch]

||Vow of rivals is specifically just one clause in a wide variety of challenge clauses you can add too :3 ||

[dull pike]

i haven't gotten to all of the unrivaled fights and lowk dreading the final boss fights unrivaled 😭 ! even in hades 1 i was very hit or miss fighting ||hades|| on extreme measures so that's probably going to go poorly

[prime iron]

i loved EM4 in hades :3 super nice addition

[dull pike]

but also lowk ||chronos|| is not that hard once u learn him so keep at it :D i think i got him on my second attempt and i have rarely died to him since. the surface gives me far more trouble

[prime iron]

oh yeah he was like 40-50% hp on my first try

just got unlucky with the reaper scythe ass attack

had 2 defiances going into him .-.

[elfin heron]

there's also another insta-kill, where the whole screen goes dark except for the thin ring around the center

[dull pike]

Oh I forgot about that whoops yep you have to avoid that as well

[elfin heron]

as for the ending sequence, ||I kinda messed up and talked to Selene too soon which ended it, but I think you might be able to walk around the garden some more, not sure||

you can never return, same goes for ||Zeus' palace, they seal it after 1 more visit||

kinda lame, but eh

[icy flame]

Personally I think the final boss fights unrivaled actually weren't quite as bad as the ones in the 3rd regions

[bitter stirrup]

That's an insane take especially for underworld but I respect it

[torn wind]

Calling Rivals Chronos easier than Rivals Cerb (arguably the easiest rivals boss) is crazy work

[icy flame]

For rivals Chronos I feel like the first 2 phases aren't too bad, and while the 3rd phase is hard it's also relatively short. The arena is also really big which means it's easier to run away from Chronos if you really need to.

Rivals cerberus trips me up everytime I try to fight him, I feel like sometimes there's no 'safe' places to stand. It also feels like his attacks come out faster and they overlap with each other to a great extent. Chronos for the most part uses only one attack at a time.

Though I've never tried either boss with vow of frenzy enabled so maybe that changes the relative difficulty

[crude dragon]

It's a donut

[torn wind]

Rivals cerb is a massive punching bag tbh

[bitter stirrup]

The thing with Cerb is once you see what he's doing, it's easy enough to dodge (aside from when you get really unlucky with the ground patterns and flamethrowers), and you can use the lava and shade walls to mitigate your damage taken, Chronos has triple slash dashes, triple scythe throws, giant slashes, scythe slams with insane hitboxes

[torn wind]

Just stand to cerb’s back left so he doesn’t hit you with the side swipe

[bitter stirrup]

And insane summons between the supplicants with suicide pulses, miniboss, super healing tempii, A CLONE OF HIMSELF

[torn wind]

And it’s not hard to just run away if there’s too many explosions and you don’t memorize their order

[bitter stirrup]

Though this is me talking who hasn't even bothered to relearn the fight after beating him a few times by just having enough health to tank all his hits lol

Also on magick aspects if you get Wolf Howl you can really cheese the Cerb fight lol

[torn wind]

Chronos is inherently harder than cerb due to being a longer fight, more mechanically complex, having access to instakills, and being way faster

He hits twice as hard and you have to fight him for longer

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah Idk what Cerb highest damage hit is without Pain but it can't be higher than like 35, Chronos LOWEST damage hit is like 30 lol (not counting summons and orbitals)

[torn wind]

Highest damage hit is the big attack but you’re unlikely to ever get hit by that

[craggy totem]

Look I got my beef with doggo but at least the pupper cannot CC me

[torn wind]

“Oh you looked away for 0.5 seconds, have fun spending the next 4 seconds in time stop while I beat your ass like Dio”

ZA WARUDO

[craggy totem]

"DPS not good enough? Have fun with the double time slow 😘 "

"that'll REALLY help 😘 "

[torn wind]

Yeah bosses like rivals cerb lack any of the ridiculous BS that Chronos can pull off

Cerb, at most, will counter you and burrow away, losing you some time

But Chronos’s stuff will just outright dumpster your run at the very end because you messed up execution even slightly or got unlucky

[icy flame]

I think if you get hit by the cerberus ground explosion it's 40 damage?

[formal kindle]

Hades 2 is such a good game that supergiant games decided to release a game called hades 1

[wide wigeon]

does eris still show up if I beat gramps on night 1

[broken creek]

Yeah

Her showing up is run count not distance achieved iirc

[wide wigeon]

yeah I js found out lmao

[broken creek]

Mhm i tried to keep dodging her most of the runs but then dds happened and that's such a pain

[wide wigeon]

what's dds

[broken creek]

Death defies

Eris spawning in counts dds too so you have to be <50% and have no dds

[cunning laurel]

cerb can occasionally have nightmare patterns with fire breath

[wide wigeon]

yeahhhh thats real

I used to love eris but now that ive been running fresh file I hate her

[bitter stirrup]

Funny coincidence that my 2 worst played Rivals Cerb fights ever happened on the same day I called him very manageable here

[deep harbor]

Man, I feel bad now. ||I finished the story, and yeah I'm back in the crossroads but like, it feels empty. I don't want to do another run just yet but when I do, i wonder what happens next lol||

Had so much fun and don't want it to be over

[elfin heron]

there's still the epilogue ending, check the "find the fates" prophecy on the list, it has updated

[deep harbor]

Yeah but after that then what? I'm done, i can do runs for fun but will I want to?

[cursive nacelle]

the second ending takes a while

after that you can upgrade your rank by spending resources

if you need a goal to keep striving for

[deep harbor]

Getting those nightmares is a problem lol. 1200 bones a pop, a ton of money at the end of an underworld run if you're lucky, 5 Charon tickets or passing a boss at a certain fear rank.

Sounds like a lot but it's not, and you need if my math is right. 95 nightmare to fully upgrade everything (5x2x5 and 5x9)

[dull pike]

the only chaos runs i have left are two of the five-star (eye?) ones that are fairly difficult and im wondering like.... do you get more after you complete those?? after that do you just have to buy the chaos . things (i forgot what they're called) instead of earning them D:?

(though i haven't unlocked any hidden aspects and i suppose there will be more runs for those right)

[elfin heron]

it's 144 nightmare for all weapon upgrades (12x5, 6x9), but honestly just keep doing the testaments, and ordering from Charon, don't waste bones on them (you need the bones for ambrosia and stardust, also for moon dust if your arcana are not maxed yet)
the testaments give 2x nightmare after fear 10, and 3x sometime later as well, also you sometimes get a freebie in the final region if you're at fear 12 or above, and another one at the final shop also occasionally
didn't have too much trouble maxing out all weapons, it was pretty natural
and you still need more nightmare after that, for some incantations and pet skins (5x4) and such

[elfin heron]

yes, you will eventually run out of Chaos trials and the only sources of stardust will be the shop and sometimes free drops in the final region at fear 12 or above
don't waste too many on cooking nectars

[dull pike]

i fear i wasted so many on cookin moondust before realizing this 😭 but i need them for the morsels

[elfin heron]

why the hell would you cook moon dust using a super rare material

moon dust is super cheap in the shop

stardust is best used for pet cookies (until every pet is maxed out), then you can cook some nectars a few times (maybe 2-3 times), then for ambrosia cooking, then you need 5x for the final cauldron upgrade

[dull pike]

i didnt realized how limited it would be T_T. or the fact that you can only do every chaos trial once for it

[elfin heron]

also just FYI, bones are also kinda limited, once you get all the big payouts from prophecies, that's about it, even with grave thirst you won't get too many in a run

[dull pike]

also btw i have like a thousand pscyhe and i haven't done anbything with it bc it still has the little ticker saying you still need it for somethin gbut... ive upgraded my grasp* to the max what do i even need it for?

[elfin heron]

ashes and psyche are used for shadow extraction (cauldron cooking tab), which in turn is used for some NPC quest lines as well as various decorations from Dora

[dull pike]

hm i thought that might be it, thanks

[elfin heron]

you also need 6x shadow extraction to unlock the Aspect of Supay, if you haven't yet

[dull pike]

i haven't gotten any of the hidden weapon aspects at all... like let me in !!! im maxed out all but one of the melinoe aspects on the weapons os im not sure what im missing

[elfin heron]

I think there was a prophecy that gives 5x shadow for completing it, I forget what it was, I used that for Supay basically

[elfin heron]

it's the same for every weapon, unlock both non-default aspects, max out either, talk to an NPC one of the aspects is named after (doesn't need to be the one you maxed out, either is fine)

so e.g. the axe, the non-default aspects are named Charon and Thanatos, there is no Thanatos in the game so you talk to Charon once you have the rank 5 Charon OR Thanatos axe

[deep harbor]

Yeah so far I've only got the Hidden Axe and hidden Staff. No idea who gives me the other ones.

[dull pike]

huh for ign they said they maxed out aspect of melinoe and most places just say one of the aspects so that's unclear. oh well

[elfin heron]

no, that's wrong

it has to be one of the non-default aspects, one you upgrade with nightmare

[deep harbor]

are you sure?

[elfin heron]

yes, I am sure

[deep harbor]

wait i'm stupid

i had a maxed Circe staff when she told me about Anubis nvm

[elfin heron]

yes, Circe is not the default staff, the default weapons are all named Melinoe

[deep harbor]

and I'm pretty sure yeah Charon told me about the Axe after i maxed out the Thanatos one.

well i know what to do now

[elfin heron]

it's the same for every other weapon, e.g. blades non-default aspects are Pan and Artemis, and there's no Pan in the game, so you talk to Artemis once you have the rank 5 Artemis OR Pan aspect

[deep harbor]

I do wonder one more thing though. I'm missing a few keepsakes, including i'm pretty sure Hades' own. He never wanted any gifts in all my underworld runs and I'm pretty sure he took them in EA so something must have changed.

[elfin heron]

the last 3 keepsakes can only be obtained after beating the game

[deep harbor]

ah that explains it

so what, do another underworld run and find him in Tartarus?

[elfin heron]

yes, you can gift Hades after beating the game (rolling the credits)

and the other 2 are ||Chronos (gift him after Hecate, at the usual spot) and Zagreus (infernal contract at Charon shops, pretty rare)||

[deep harbor]

welp, guess it's time to take the ol' shade zapper out again (Circe Staff, Zeus Cast)

[elfin heron]

there's an achievement for beating the game with all 24 weapons, so might as well start switching it up now

[deep harbor]

i think so far i've had successful runs with Mel Staff, Mel Torches, Mel Axe, Thanatos Axe and Circe Staff

[elfin heron]

hidden aspects also give 2 ambrosia if you reach Chronos with them, the first time, so that's 12 ambrosia right there, easy pickings

[deep harbor]

got a long way to go.

most of my story runs were Mel/Thanatos Axe and Circe Staff

[elfin heron]

try the Moros torches and Medea skull, these are some of the strongest weapons in the game

[deep harbor]

wait no I did a run with the Persephone skull too right.

bonus levels on heph attack and invincible Demeter omega special go brrr

||literally||

[elfin heron]

Hades keepsake + Aspect of Persephone can be a disgustingly powerful combo

||all boons start at lvl 4-10||

[jolly hound]

I once had a level 8 sea star that I forgot about when picking Pom Pom Pom and it got to level 16, for 100% hit rate

Thanks mom

[slow idol]

Wild bunny!

[dull pike]

@elfin heron ok u were totally right the moment I upgraded the non melinoe aspects the respective characters gave me the wake phrase on like the subsequent run

[robust crane]

Im making a game inspired by hades what should i add?

[torn wind]

So what you’re saying is you took every extra room in Tartarus for guaranteed sea star triple coins and triple Poms

[jolly hound]

Sure did

HAVE ANOTHER!

[plucky oxide]

what if this game was called hades 67 (six seven) instea of hades 2 😹

lmao

[torn wind]

HAHA YES!

[crude dragon]

Mods, make him do a 67F clear

[torn wind]

Mods, remove their Jpom and god keepsakes

[plucky ore]

One can only hope that one day Hades 2 will find its way to playstation

[torn wind]

It should come to PS and Xbox after the Nintendo exclusivity deal runs out

[plucky ore]

Now this is news to me, I didn’t know there was a deal

[torn wind]

Nintendo has been buying 1 year exclusivity or outright exclusivity to third party games for a while now to boost Switch sales

They bought exclusivity to MH:Rise and have a From Software game coming up

Nintendo uses H2 for marketing as part of their exclusivity deal

[plucky ore]

Thank you for enlightening me but 1 year is torturous, but wait I shall all the same

[torn wind]

It’ll be worth it to get the fresh wave of players to revitalize the game

We shouldn’t ever get a content update but we may get a small balance or bug fix patch

[elfin heron]

Duskbloods was From's own idea, they pitched it to Nintendo

[torn wind]

regardless, Nintendo is trying to buff up their third party games

[elfin heron]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/1jrcc75/miyazaki_says_it_was_his_idea_to_make_duskbloods/

[torn wind]

Since 90% of the reason to buy a Nintendo console has always just been for first party games since most third party games were just watered down versions of other consoles’ versions

[elfin heron]

and MH Rise is a 2021 Switch 1 game

[torn wind]

But with the Switch they’re decently capable of matching decent quality

[elfin heron]

that is still the case, there are next to no permanent third party exclusives

only stuff like TWEWY final remix, which is suspiciously not on PC/consoles, though the Bravely Default remaster just released on PC/Xbox

[jolly hound]

Dating myself here but the absolute travesty that was the Wii version of the force unleashed

[torn wind]

Okay hear me out, I had that as a kid and I loved the PvP mode it had that the other versions didn’t

I played that a bunch as a kid with my friend

I did end up playing the Xbox version later on in my teen and yeah it was better but it was sad not having the PvP mode

Force Unleashed II on Wii also had this weird like smash bros type platform fighter but that wasn’t as good

[jolly hound]

It was how I learned Nintendo was inferior tech wise the hard way

[cyan mountain]

Hey there! How am I supposed to get ||Darkness|| in H2?

[jolly hound]

Chaos

[cyan mountain]

As in the trials from the dark crystal thingy?

[crude dragon]

As in Chaos's rooms

[cyan mountain]

Oh, now I get it

[crude dragon]

Yeah, Darkness blobs are the "flower" for those rooms

[craggy totem]

BTW, on a tangent: note that you cannot get harvestable resources other than the "trial reward" from Chaos trials, so don't try grinding them for that

[torn wind]

Yeah lol but I was a child so it was still fun

[cyan mountain]

Good to know. Thank you!

[azure haven]

I basically done everything in the game and yet Hercules won't unlock his bond; he just flies away. Playing on Switch 2.

[torn wind]

Idk what his requirement is tbh. It felt like I just had to eventually exhaust all his dialogue. Same for Icarus

[thorny zenith]

...Is there a place to request game updates/features/etc.? Things that aren't bugs, but information that's missing from UI in various places?

[torn wind]

The game is probably never gonna see any feature/content updates

[broken creek]

i know its tied to the rivals fight iirc

so just keep spamming rivals3 surface and gift him as much as you can and itll come eventually

[jade niche]

my current way to have fun with the game are Strength+Fates Whim runs

[azure halo]

||with Circe's "Lapis Lazuli Insight" boon, is there a way to see which Arcana cards are upgraded? Or would you just have to remember it after it pops up? Also I don't know how to spoiler only certain words, so I just spoilered the whole thing lol sorri : )||

[elfin heron]

you can also just check your arcana by pressing left on the d-pad then browsing to the arcana tab with the shoulder buttons

[azure halo]

so I tried that, but they are all upgraded.

[torn wind]

Whichever ones are a higher level than normal

The normal max is 3

So I mean IDK what level you have all your arcanas at so that's up to you to know

[azure halo]

ah okay so I got "unlucky" and had two that I didn't have maxed out upgraded since they are all the same lol

[torn wind]

Yeah since if it activated on one that was rank 3 it would become rank 4

And show as red instead of purple

[azure halo]

so it would show if I had all at the same level

ohhh wait so its colour coded. that makes sense. though what are the arrows in the corner for then?

[torn wind]

The level of the arcana is what color it is

The number is how much grasp it costs

White, blue, purple, red for level

Same way boons function

[azure halo]

I mean the arrows for when youre inspecting your arcana cards while in a run

[heady garden]

I finally 100% steam on Hades 2!!

[main copper]

Does Zeus appear every time I fight Typhon?

[cunning laurel]

yes

[main copper]

aw man

feels like a missed opportunity to not rotate it between gods

[cunning laurel]

that would be sweet yea

[oblique whale]

what arcanas should i be upgrading first

im between death strength and that p status one

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah pretty much your preference of Death vs Strength and pee status Origination are two of the most important cards

[oblique whale]

also how does getting nightmare work
i read the wiki and im confused as hell

[bitter stirrup]

Lovers, Furies, and Persistence are the other ones that are basically never off

[oblique whale]

is it that you get it after beating a specific boss at a specific heat

[bitter stirrup]

At the Oath of the Unseen there are testaments that show a boss and fear level as well as a weapon, you get nightmare for beating that boss at that fear level with that weapon

You get the nightmare as soon as you beat the boss so you keep it even if you end up dying

[oblique whale]

are the weapons easier to max out compared to h1?
or does it also snowball after being really stingy at first

[bitter stirrup]

I would say they're easier to max out, Nightmare is also a purchasable resource with Charon's O-points and bones

[oblique whale]

are there any bugs i should know about
or did sg learn their lesson after beowulf

[bitter stirrup]

No bugs at the level of 2× Mirage Shot I don't think

Medea used to boost some cast damage as well but that was patched out

[oblique whale]

alright thx man

[slim pike]

There were a few right up until the end of EA, but nothing really gamebreakingly silly right out of the gate any more

The aspects do what they say they do

(Medea had a bug for ages where her 90% bonus damage applied to storm ring)

[snow jolt]

does hades 2 have cross save/cross progression between nintendo switch and pc? like the first game did

[glass cloud]

chat is it just me or is Scylla kinda....

[proper seal]

[slim pike]

Scylla is kinda.

[proper seal]

Scylla is kinda...

[glass cloud]

like hear me out

[jolly hound]

She is certainly kinda

[bitter stirrup]

I've been saying she should've been romanceable from day 1

Or at least giftable along with Prometheus

[plucky oxide]

67

[jolly hound]

She wrote a diss track and a love song about you, that’s basically romance

[raw kraken]

23/24 aspects sub 10 I hate shiva

[jolly hound]

I saw your stats, you’ve only run it 9 times fam

idk if there’s any merit to a big o attack investment for phasing bosses but idk maybe that

Apollo special and light smite in Erebus means fast Hecate at least I guess

I bet ya get it tonight

[bitter stirrup]

Could be 9 actual runs and like 20 Erebus resets from hating the weapon (like me)

[torn wind]

Why did I have to forget to record this run lol

I forgot to switch off of frinos but I decided to mess around with morrigan and am on 4:30 out of fields

I think I did forget to randomize at the start of my run though

[jolly hound]

yea I got my 45 shiva yesterday via romantic spark and hitch bombs figuring it worked in hades 1 it’ll still work now and it barely did now I never need to run it again til I convince myself to do all 50s (got Mel skulls and Charon axe left for uw and Mel axe and Momus for surface at 45)

I had Charon then gf interrupted and rivals chronos blocking pause actually screwed me

[bitter stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-feliz-onetreehsll-world-if-gif-14071235670792471304

The world if Elephant Rockets made the Shiva special actually go fast:

[bitter stirrup]

Strength moment

Had a moment like that with my mom earlier because I run Strength on Nergal lol

Though that's my fault for losing Lovers barriers in P1 lol

[ebon sigil]

I need help chat. What are objectively the best songs to buy first from the musician shade?

[bitter stirrup]

Reflection Affection, Lap of Luxury, Winged Apprentice, Song of the Sirens

[jolly hound]

Pissed her off and lost the fight. Wasn’t a great run

[deep harbor]

i feel like i'm doing something wrong but I see a lot of guides singing the praises of Hera but I find Hitch to be...mediocre? Like you do more damage to all the enemies afflicted with it but like. Ok and? I clear rooms faster with Aphro or Apollo. and I don't find her to be great into guardians either.

now her passive boons are insane, making something heroic, more atk for each god in the pool. things like that are great.

[broken glen]

Yep! Hera is just a god that you can slot into any build. Hitch on its own won’t get you far- but its value is in spreading insane damage dealt through other sources (like blitz)

She’s the perfect support

[deep harbor]

ah gotcha.

Cause like, I did a run with Eos torches(maxed it out to unlock supay and had to clear the surface with torches for a prophecy) with Hera on attack and zeus on special, and i lost at Prometheus (my own fault for not paying attention to the fire trails)

but then I picked apollo on atk and shredded the whole run.

[jolly hound]

Take torches, hitch special and a meatball of an attack, profit

The dream torches hera is powered by hestia duo

[deep harbor]

i think my first EA surface clear not long after it came out was Hestia on Mel torches.

[jolly hound]

My singular 50 fear surface clear was the incandescent aura dream with moros

[vapid sage]

Woahhh. Got to r prometheus with 27 secs left, and won during timeout

See how much longer i can carry it tho

[vapid sage]

Holy crap i guess so :>

#h2-victory-boasting message

[plain relic]

What testament do I have to beat the gsme at before im considered "good"

10? 20? 30?

[jolly hound]

32

[plain relic]

Just got all together boon with a hera moros build. 30% healing 50% attack and special damage
16% dodge +90 hp. Lmao right before final topside boss too

Also air quality lol

[plain relic]

I did underworld at 32 and upside at 30

[jolly hound]

Then your good nice job

[plain relic]

You hear that everyone? That means my opinions are good

[hollow yew]

Hi all, im not quite sure if my question/problem is in this channel. But if anyone could helpme without any spoilers ( i dont want to spoil also obvioulsy, but i feel im stuck in the game. Im doing run after run getting no were. My goal is to get the final item for hypnos and i dont know what do i need to do. I already did the top and bottom and i dont know what to do now. Any advice will be awesome.

[plain relic]

Have get progress medea(witch in topside) relationship, and collect a soot from some guy in the underworld idk his name

[plain relic]

Obviously pre-reqs to this are the poppy rituals earlier pertaining to hypnos as well

[raw kraken]

Indeed I did

8:59 shiva 24/24

[elfin heron]

the item for the 3rd Hypnos incantation is only available after the ending

[azure halo]

anyone have any ideas for a dash build?

[elfin heron]

aspect of Supay with Zeus/Hestia/Poseidon/maybe Hera rush boon
get glamour gain + any special with a curse for fully automated origination
then just hold sprint to delete enemies

[azure halo]

how is it against bosses? thats what I've been struggling with on my dash builds

[raw kraken]

Supay with breaker rush gigaros dash divine dash
Zeus attack Poseidon special glamour gain, get romantic spark

[elfin heron]

granted I played this on 0 fear, but Cerb phased in 2-3 seconds lol, this was with Hestia rush/special + pyro technique + glamour gain + sweet surrender (bonus damage to weakened enemies)

[jolly hound]

Based

[azure halo]

Ive mostly been playing Hephaestus with Mel axe and I get so much damage reduction

[elfin heron]

oh yeah, I also had that Hestia/Aphro duo boon that made scorch last forever, so I think Hestia + Aphro is one of the better combinations on Supay for sure

[azure halo]

Hephaestus and Demeter are kind of crazy together

[torn wind]

Depending on which heph blasts I have I’d prefer rude awkening

Since 300 power stronger than 50% damage usually if you have more % buffs

Since cryo pounder is only additive to stuff like origination and furies

[azure halo]

tbh in my experience it doesn't matter since I'm not taking any damage

[torn wind]

While rude awakening is extra base power

300 power applies before % buffs

[azure halo]

I take tough gain and frosty veneer

[torn wind]

Tough gain is solid if you sacrifice for it with jeweled Pom

Since it can’t have levels if you take it first

But if you sacrifice for it it will gain the levels

[azure halo]

I mean yeah, but even without it works well for me

Like I've face tanked final bosses

just whacking them

theres also the hera one

Brave face

and then just stack Max life and Magick

its stupid simple lol

[proper seal]

I had a build where I got Apollo legendary on Axe

but then when I reach || Olympus || the rooms I have been getting were all apollo

and then I was like "ENOUGH APOLLO GIMMIE OTHER GODS"

and then I reach the boss room and lost the run all because all my rooms have been Apollo

[hasty ocean]

You got blinded by the light

You were dazed and confused

[proper seal]

I fully blame Apollo for screwing up my run that couldve went well

[torn wind]

Yeah it’s really annoying when you either get nothing but the god you wanted at first or when you exclusively get the god you didn’t want

[clear tangle]

Saben si habrán nuevas actualizaciones para el juego? O ya no habrá contenido nuevo?

[crude dragon]

La más probable, no

[lean bronze]

nergal looks pretty fun

Definitely looks like it feels a lot better than charon or mel

i dont understand thanatos entirely
I have to land tons of hits just for a small chance to crit on ?

but oh wow maxing all the aspects is indeed a long journey

[torn wind]

“Small chance” I mean 20% is like having Raki constantly active on every enemy

That’s an effective 40% multiplicative damage buff and can be increased with success rate from hermes

Slap night arcana on there and success rate and you can get pretty close to 100% crit chance

[lean bronze]

m

[cunning laurel]

okay you wont get close to 100 but crit rate is good

[lean bronze]

what do you think about shiva and nergal?

[torn wind]

Okay so let’s see

Raki: 4%
Raki mark: 20%
Mortality: 20%
Night: 15%

Times 1.6 for heroic success rate

94.4%

Circe familiar buff gets you 100%

[plain berry]

Just want to let SuperGiant know that there's an Instagram Ad going around of another company using your cutscenes to sell their game, "motto.immortal." The company is called "Goat Co. Ltd" and their app store images also copy Hades 2 style graphics. I took screen shots of it but not sure how I can add it in this chat. @zealous cape

[cunning laurel]

okay thats red success rate and raki mark isnt always on

although higher than i expected

[torn wind]

Since it buffs ALL chances besides dodge and daze

Okay so then let’s say epic success rate

That’s still 88.5%

Without calling card

Without raki mark that’s 58.5%

But an effective 119% multiplicative damage buff all the time (so long as you use night) is goofy

[lean bronze]

if im critmaxxing on my build id personally go for 50% since its diminishing returns but i dont know if thats a good idea in this game

[torn wind]

I mean just run raki and night and spam back and forth between omega special and omega attack ez game

With psychic whirlwind that’s pretty easy

[lean bronze]

running raki does mean my torches will need a good gain boon
night should be enough crit for moros i assume?

[torn wind]

I’m not talking torches lol

[lean bronze]

i know
Separate

[torn wind]

Also I think night is kinda messed up with torches

Because I think using oattack cancels the crit chance on ospecial

[lean bronze]

what

[torn wind]

I recall somebody mentioning that using oattack during ospecial causes it to not continue receiving night buff until you use it again

So it would be better on something like Eos

I do want to do some runs with the funny Judgement void 3 fates whim build that guarantees you get every arcana by the end of the run

[slim pike]

Raki's base crit chance isn't affected by success rate

Why? Because shut up, that's why.

[torn wind]

It isn’t? Well at least Artemis is affected by it

[red lichen]

Found out from a friend that there's a miniboss called ||charybdis|| in ||rift of thessaly|| that I simply have never seen. My friend was very confused that I've never seen it and says it's extremely common for him, and according to the internet, encountering this miniboss at least once is a hidden unlock requirement for ||vow of rivals 2||. I've literally beaten the game now and have gone through ||rift of thessaly|| at least a dozen times and still have never seen this boss, so I can't unlock ||vow of rivals 2||. I'm not convinced that I've essentially flipped a coin a dozen times in a row and gotten tails every single time, and I'm starting to worry that my game is bugged.

Is this a known bug that anyone has encountered before? (I'm playing on steam, on mac.) Or could there be a criterion for it to show up that I somehow just never activated?

Also, does anyone know what the chances are supposed to be of it showing up in any given run?

[torn wind]

That’s genuinely just terrible luck but I can say I’ve had significant stretches of time without ever seeing them

Charybdis is something I wish I saw less

[marsh wedge]

Which aspect is better in axe Charons or Thanatos?

[torn wind]

Wasted a ton of time in a run

[red lichen]

Am I right that it's roughly coin flip odds? Is there a way to figure out what the exact odds are?

[torn wind]

Entirely depends, Charon has insane room clear potential and boss damage but needs specific builds to really get there

[cunning laurel]

its exactly 50/50

[red lichen]

oh damn, alright

Can it show up in ||chaos trials||?

[cunning laurel]

only 2 minibosses

[torn wind]

It can but idk if it would count

[red lichen]

I imagine it would

[torn wind]

I think it’s guaranteed for trial of blood I think it’s called? Whichever one has white antler

[red lichen]

oh hmm lemme see if I have that

[torn wind]

Or at least a high chance

But idk if it would count for the requirement

[torn wind]

Than axe is kinda more generic but its biggest strength involves not getting hit

If you take damage you lose out on its largest buff

Until you can slowly get it back again

[marsh wedge]

The first time I fought Zagreus I had the Charon aspect ı barely beat him

[torn wind]

Do you know how to dash while charging omega special?

A lot of weapons allow you to dash while charging

[red lichen]

trial of heartache was the one I did

I assume it has normal odds of showing up in that

[torn wind]

Some don’t let you dash at all like Pan and some cancel the charge but still let you dash

[red lichen]

I counted and I had 12.5 runs through thessaly if you count that trial (one of my early runs died there)

I guess I can try doing the trial you mentioned and see if that unlocks it for me

[torn wind]

I will say I maybe see Charybdis in like 1 out of 15 or more runs that get through Thessaly

Not seeing them during that time is entirely believable

I’m surprised the game doesn’t force an encounter

I assumed it forced you to encounter Charybdis in the first few surface runs

[red lichen]

seriously?? that doesn't compute with the other person saying the chance is 1/2

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah I got Charybdis in my first Thessaly run back then and was so confused why the region boss had a boon reward lmao

[cunning laurel]

its definitely 50% for each

[torn wind]

50/50 whether you get yargonaut or Charybdis

You’re not guaranteed to get a warden fight

[red lichen]

I haven't gotten either of those wtf??

unless I'm just stupid and don't know what yargonaut is

I'm pretty sure I've never encountered either of those

[cunning laurel]

shes got the gun and bouncing bullets

[torn wind]

They’re saying coin flip which warden you get not that you’ll get a ward on 50/50 runs

[red lichen]

I don't think I've ever seen either of these???

[torn wind]

You’re just quite lucky I guess

[cunning laurel]

it is kinda rare for wardens in thessaly

[red lichen]

is it less than a 50% chance that you get a warden?

[torn wind]

But wardens are the guys you get with the skull above the door

[red lichen]

oh okay, I see

[torn wind]

Yeah I get a warden on a small number of my run

It’s not guaranteed like in Olympus

[red lichen]

I see

I might've encountered yargonaut then and just not remember what it is

[torn wind]

Since Olympus will basically always give you the option to fight a warden and if you don’t choose to fight it it will show up again

Unlike Thessaly I fight the dracon or talos basically every run since on average it’s more likely to be forced and is faster than some of the possible normal encounters

[red lichen]

yeah that's fair

[slow comet]

Can it be considered whimsical behavior if I let my mourning fields blob resurrected by sun worshipper race nemesis for last 7 kills of the encounter on a speedrun attempt

[torn wind]

Free will exists

“The timer isn’t running and you can’t make me play seriously while it’s paused”

[slim pike]

I don't believe you can even see the yargonaut until you've seen charybdis

[torn wind]

I find it believable that out of all their runs they just literally never got a warden in Thessaly

[toxic hedge]

Wait, just to confirm. Do we know if they've moved on from Hades 2 as a project?

[elfin heron]

so how does the Improbable Outcomes prophecy work? I just cleared Great Chaos Below, does this mean I now only need to clear either of the other 3?

also, can I still reset the seed? this shouldn't count as a failure, right?

[tranquil wren]

yep

from what I was told, it had to be two Belows or two Aboves in succession, but I think I remember someone saying they did a Below then an Above (or vice versa)

regardless, if you did GCB then CB should be a piece of cake. it's what I did

[tranquil wren]

99.9 recurring
there could be the occasional bugfix but they're definitely done with the game

[elfin heron]

I just hope I don't get discordant bell or white antler in a later region lmao

will have to undo and reset the seed, if so, this does NOT affect the streak, right?

[tranquil wren]

not sure tbh

you'll know if it does though, the Stone tells you what your current streak is

[elfin heron]

oh, it does huh

[lean bronze]

what do you mean i need 4 n-mares just to unlock shiva aspect
the road of maxing all aspects just got a lot longer

[oblique whale]

guys is it me or does arty kinda look like alyssa liu

[wide wigeon]

its js the hair

[proper seal]

Shiva go brr

[final saddle]

Which weapon gets Shiva again?

[proper seal]

Black Coat

[hallow vault]

Hades 2 is in the topsale charts

[delicate seal]

Can someone gift me hades 2

Really wanna play it

[wide wigeon]

js buy it

[proper seal]

its on sale rn

[winter cloak]

[vapid sage]

62 fears a whole diffrent ballpark i cant even make it to hecate haha

[craggy portal]

I can can consistently beat Tartarus but I can’t even make it up to the top of Olympus to beat [redacted]

[proper seal]

yea || surface is more difficult to get through ||

just gotta keep playing

[craggy portal]

Any weapon/aspect recommendations?

[proper seal]

Well I like using the twin blades (Artemis), staff (Melinoe, Circe, and Momus,), Skulls, (Melinoe, Persephone and Hel), and coat (Melinoe, Nyx)

I wouldnt recommend the axe because the attack speed is slow

you could also use the umbral flame with really fast attack speed and omega channel speed and theyre all good (wouldnt recommend || Supay because you need to rely on a rush boon ||)

[craggy portal]

I like the Thanatos axe because of the attack speed buff

[proper seal]

well if u prefer the axe, then I would highly suggest going for boons that give you faster attack speeds

such as Rapid Hack and Nimble Limbs

[crude dragon]

Or just double down on the big damage and go for stuff like Grievous Blow

[proper seal]

^ or even double down further

if you like the special go for giga cleaver

[craggy portal]

any recomendations for the arcana cards?

[proper seal]

you want ur setup to look like this: https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/ArcanaDeck/?deck=WyJjMSIsImMyIiwiYzMiLCJjNiIsImM3IiwiYzgiLCJjMTEiLCJjMTIiLCJjMTMiLCJjMTQiLCJjMTUiLCJjMTciLCJjMTgiLCJjMjQiXQ==

but if u want more damage, you can swap out death for strength where you take less damage and deal 20% more damage

[red lichen]

Oh...

[torn wind]

You also CAN swap out boatman for excellence but then you potentially give up some early boons from Charon or Hermes shops

300 gold at the start of the run is big especially if you’re playing with vow of Debt since it guarantees a boon at first shop

Higher rare chance is decent depending on what builds you’re going for, such as Hephaestus blasts

Since they’re so heavily affected by rarity unlike most other gods

Heph blast builds basically just change the entire way you play the game since now Poms and rarity become amazing rather than mostly inconsequential

[craggy portal]

any particular keepsake to use?

[torn wind]

God keepsakes are always a good bet until you unlock Jeweled Pomegranate

Guaranteeing certain gods is pretty powerful

[craggy portal]

i havent got that yet

[torn pebble]

how come there isnt an official well administrated wiki fot the game?

I'm trying to look up how to complete certain prophecies but all I get is uninformational yt videos, useless AI summaries, and dead reddit threads

[cunning laurel]

nobody has bothered to make/upkeep one

what prophecies are you curious about

[craggy portal]

using this set up i was able to make it to redacted but wasnt able to defeat him

[prisma monolith]

the wiki is maintained by the community, feel free to add any missing information

[proper seal]

perfect it means u are getting closer

[craggy portal]

How can you tell when you are getting close to beating him?

[proper seal]

I like to use || Pom, the Calling Card, Chronos watch if im low on money or Hammer for decent run and then usually for the final part I use metallic droplet, blackened fleece, or lion fang depending on the situation and what weapon is being used ||

[proper seal]

youll know once u reach the final shop

[craggy portal]

No like within the fight

[grizzled basin]

Is there any possibility for developers to create a game profile with Steam points like they did with Hades 1?

[proper seal]

oh there is a phase where || Zeus will assist you with his thunderbolts marking that ur halfway through the boss fight. Also if he does the tongue attack twice back and forth ||

[proper seal]

its actually there already u can find it

[craggy portal]

I like to use || sash early, then chaos/hammer then a god keepsake, then end it with skelly keepsake ||

[grizzled basin]

No, it's like that one with 10k points.

[torn wind]

The phase order always goes fight > eggs > fight > knockdown > fight > eggs > fight

If you do enough damage during knockdown you can bypass and go straight to the second eggs

And if you kill the eggs fast enough it will go right back into fighting but if you take too long to kill the eggs he will go back into fighting automatically with the enemies still active

During his last two fight phases he will get extra attacks

[torn pebble]

i like to intentionally die to either of the final guardians depending on if im doing a surface or underworld attempt so I can later get 30% bonus damage from the Evil Eye

[proper seal]

like a bundle?

[delicate seal]

Can someone gift me hades 2 it's on sale

🥺

[cunning laurel]

this aint the place for that

[lean bronze]

im struggling so much on 16 fear surface, and i need to do a 24 fear run of it???

[real scarab]

Use a omega heavy aspect like Moros & spam Twilight curse, easy peasy

[broken creek]

whats the fear setup??

[delicate seal]

Can anyone give me hades 2

[severe wagon]

can you romace other chars without screwing up your romance with one of em

[real scarab]

Yes u can romance them all, no problem

[severe wagon]

W

thank you

[lean bronze]

i AM using moros

[lean bronze]

the issues mostly frenzy 2
Eris and prometheus double cooking me
I shouldve dialed it down to a frenzy 1 for practise first in hindsight

[real scarab]

You can do 16 fear wo/ rivals 3, they're really hard

[lean bronze]

maybe i should use dice arcana to roll curse?

[lean bronze]

i dont even have it unlocked
Its normal eris and prome

i have frenzy time horde 1 and debt 1

[real scarab]

Ah ok since you said prom double, I thought you meant the rivals version

[lean bronze]

mb
Double as in they both are the problem for me so i fail my runs

[real scarab]

Normal Prom is not that hard, wait for his attacks to finish don't stay close all the time and then strike, if you try to facetank him all the time, he will punish you immensely

I think Boated has some good videos for boss fights

[broken creek]

yeah its hard to say much about frenzy outside of just get used to it

but you can make some easy 16 setups without it

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsNSwwLDIsMiwwLDYsMCwxLDAsMF0=
like this is pretty free

[real scarab]

Nah fw better

[lean bronze]

ill give that a try

[lean bronze]

fw?

[cunning laurel]

post game stuff

[real scarab]

Fates whim, post game stuff yea, if you don't have it you should use reroll arcana for sure

[lean bronze]

o
Im assuming its only available after i max friendships with the people in list and see the fates

[real scarab]

It's avaliable after you finish the main quest

[lean bronze]

i think ive done that

[real scarab]

Did you get mom's keepsake?

[lean bronze]

Jpom? Yes

[real scarab]

Yea the condition to use it and other endgame keepsakes is called Fates Whim

[lean bronze]

Ahh i thought it was a different thing
Are all those fw keepsakes very op?

Also wow non frenzy eris is so easy after all those frenzy 2 erises

[real scarab]

Jpom is the best keepsake in the game imo

Chrolex is very good, it lets you buy lots of stuff

Calling Card can be very good at times too

[broken creek]

its meta

jpom gives everything +3 levels so your baseline damage shoots up and more things become easily viable to a point where the win con is just get origination online and even then thats optional

chrolex is the best econ keepsake in the game, assuming no debt you can buy out every single shop you take and even assuming debt2 you can comfortably get a boon every shop minimum

and calling card is niche its generally a funsies r1 take or a very specific r2/r3 take if you bank on something that super wants rarity like hermes or heph but otherwise its meh and generally isnt taken

and the only condition is you dont take reroll arcana and dont take an olympian summoning keepsake(so antler, fig leaf, and moon beam are all ok takes while the boon oriented ones arent)

[lean bronze]

lol chrolex

[lean bronze]

so chrolex for if i need money and jpom definitely?

still needa get calling card by beating zag
Havent done that yet
Also thanks plum
Your set up worked super well
game was fr in slow mo when no frenzy
Any recommendations for 24?

[broken creek]

your takes should(assuming you want like meta fear decision making) be jpom -> chrolex -> whatever -> pin/antler for each region

chrolex does wayyy to much to not take, since it also lets you take chaos with zero risk attached and get out with loads of money

[broken creek]

ummmm lemme make one, my like half serious if you wanna climb higher setup is like timer3 frenzy2 rivals4 since thats 24 and gets you used to things youll need to be used to for higher fears but if your goal is just 3rd statue i can make smth a bit less practice focused

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwyLDAsMCwzLDAsNSwxLDIsMiwwLDYsMCwxLDIsMF0=
if you still want to avoid frenzy and rivals id lean into this, denial will take some getting used to but just be able to narrow down what exactly you need to take and it becomes a non issue 99% of the time

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwwLDMsMCwzLDAsNSwxLDIsMiwwLDYsMCwyLDAsMF0=
or actually this one might be nicer and frenzy1 is a much more polite speed increase

and dipping away from denial and wards is just nice

[delicate seal]

Somone buy me hades 2 fast fast

[torn wind]

You already got told off the last time lol

“Well it didn’t work 4 hours ago so maybe now”

[elfin heron]

dunno about here, but in most places shameless begging like this is ban worthy

[dim kernel]

It's on sale buddy grab some change from under vending machines

[lean bronze]

ima try the sets ty
Tho my goal isnt just the statue
Its completing most of the game
Which includes the third statue

[fresh kelp]

What are haelians controller buttons for runs? Is it just default?

[rare summit]

It feels weird to have picked up Hades 2 like three days ago and reaching the ||first|| final boss way sooner than I did with 1

[crude dragon]

TBF, you also have experience with the first game

[elfin heron]

there's a second path with 4 more biomes and 4 more bosses and it's way harder

[rare summit]

I'm aware, I unlocked it... ish

[tidal sigil]

guys when i get gigaros does the surface get stronger or do i just suck

cuz it feels like the bosses are a lot tankier

might just be vow of rivals though

[tidal sigil]

now beat vow of rivals

[rare summit]

Ways away from that my dude

[tidal sigil]

i guess😭

so can someone answer my question

[rare summit]

Fair, albeit muscle memory that needed retraining plus I hadn't touched Hades 1 in over a year

[tidal sigil]

i still have yet to kill charon

im gonna work on that since i have a brain that knows how to get big boom damage

[crude dragon]

No, it's the latter

[tidal sigil]

damn aight

i js killed typhon tho so its ok

it would be a tuff finish if i killed chronos for good but with the vow of rivals third phase one

[crude dragon]

Well, Supergiant does give you a fighting chance

[tidal sigil]

what

i mean i guess

i havent fought him in rival tho so its gonna be a challenge probably

also guys how do i find persephone

do i need to kill chronos "for good"?

[crude dragon]

Just put the credits in the bag

[timid hatch]

There is something very funny about leaving ||Dio's party||, leaving and immediately dying to midboss, then coming back home to the same music as before the boss

I don't think that's actually a 1.0 spoiler, Olympus

oh I also just completed his prophecy so that's fun

[torn wind]

Nah 1.0 spoilers means post-credits stuff

[unkempt zodiac]

Is there any kind of consensus on the difficulty of h1 vs h2

I've been playing more h1 recently and it feels so much harder than uw and even a little harder than sf maybe

But I also never learned how to build in h1

[elfin heron]

what do I order from Charon when I no longer need nightmare? and what do I spend bones on?

[unkempt zodiac]

You can get psyche for good ratio of prestige

[elfin heron]

so psyche for both? it's the best one for converting into kudos?

[unkempt zodiac]

Afaik

[timid hatch]

I think it's mixed, generally. In my personal opinion and in how it tends be viewed.

[unkempt zodiac]

I for instance find it incredibly hard to get sub 5 minute region clears with most weapons

Whereas that's very easy in hades 2 for me

[timid hatch]

It feels harder in H2 (from my perspective) to get a highly busted build but it also feels less necessary and iirc from what I've heard very high/max Fear was reached much more quickly than was for Heat in H1. Speedrunning feels harder for me in H2 but WR runs are faster in H2 than H1. I feel like I've seen more people speaking of H2 being more difficult... sort of but also more commentary about how you can get by with almost any build without a problem unless you're really unlucky.

[unkempt zodiac]

I find it harder to get a busted build in h2 since you get fewer boons in h1

[torn wind]

H1 is considerably harder early on since it frontloads its difficulty way more, but H2 has stuff like harder rivals bosses compared to the extreme measures bosses

[unkempt zodiac]

Minor rewards take up a huge amount of h1

[unkempt zodiac]

I suppose that's true, em2 is free heat

[elfin heron]

lmao, Nemesis offered me 360 gold for Bridal Glow

[unkempt zodiac]

Good job nem

You're getting a great deal I swear

[elfin heron]

one of the best deals in history

[jolly hound]

I got toula on a chaos below run and my irl cat is so mad about it

[bitter stirrup]

Your irl cat when you enter the average Elysium room in H1:

[lean bronze]

so close, my 24f surface runs are all so so so close

[jolly hound]

He got used to those I think, he was big mad at toula for existing

also did chaos above and got wantler and lost all my defiances in the first two rooms then somehow pulled it off yeeeehaw

[timid hatch]

Does anyone have any advice for getting through Olympus (including Prometheus) unscathed besides "grind the Shiva trial with WAntler until I prove I can WAntler it" (hell, WAntler it 5 times in a row, DDless if I really want to go there)?

Like, I got to Prometheus with all DDs left then didn't even clear him

[quick crescent]

Prometheus requires to really take your time and keep your distance

Only hit him once or twice then back tf up

[cunning laurel]

sounds like you just gotta practice the fight more

[lean bronze]

the problem with that is the time 3 vow

[quick crescent]

oooh then i got no clue

[lean bronze]

its a vow you can take
it forces you to play somewhat fast as after the 5 mins are up (Each region is 5mins) you take dmg til you die

[broken creek]

iirc prom has a rhythm of like 1 -2 -3 - flame move

[quick crescent]

i know that i was meaning that i got no clue what they can do

[torpid flicker]

CHAT I JUST BOUGHT HADES 2

[broken creek]

so hes super predictable just kinda walk around him and when its the flame move be ready to dash otherwise he kinda doesnt do anything

and the memory game you dont even have to remember anything the dash timing is super free, although if you cant get it down you can always stand in the spot thats open off rip so you have to remember one less then just have mental callouts

[timid hatch]

At least the regions roll over but yeah Time 3 basically mandates sub20 runs which is like, bare minimum "decent (noncompetitive) speedrun" range. Which I do tend to aim/hope for sub20 runs even though I don't always even take Time 2

[broken creek]

time3 is free as long as grit and hoards arent taken

[lean bronze]

remembering them by numbers is quite easy for me
im too cowardly to leave it up to sprint timing

[broken creek]

although surface can be mean sometimes, thessaly and olympus hate fun

[timid hatch]

I'm unsure if I've had even one sub20 surface run yet and I think my PB on UW is still 18+

Admittedly I do tend to still aim for winnability over speed so I still do things like taking most of the Tartarus detours I can find to make Chronos easier

(which I'm unsure is even optimal for that when I take midbosses)

[broken creek]

yeah you should almost never be taking tart side rooms

since every room you take ups the enemy density in the next rooms

and the rewards tend to not be all that useful, and the second you add on forfeit its 100% a waste of time since youd have to take 2 rooms minimum just to get anything

high fear takes the hades room since dissent or life tax are run saving, although speedruns even avoid hades as to not up enemy density

[bitter stirrup]

My advice for Prometheus is always be running in a circle around him so that you will naturally dodge his kick and punch

[lean bronze]

what do i do for typhon tears

[bitter stirrup]

Unless it's a Family Dispute everyone loves Family Disputes

[torpid flicker]

Should do most of the content in Hades first then jump to Hades 2? Or after the epilogue I should jump straight to Hades 2

[timid hatch]

At least Family Disputes don't occur on midboss rooms lol (at least, I'm 80% sure they don't...)

[crude dragon]

You could jump in after the epilogue, but you might as well also do the prophecies with Sisyphus, Eurydice, Patroclus, and Chaos as well

[timid hatch]

Personally I'd recommend maxing all relationships then doing whatever challenges and 100% completion measures you feel like, to get the full experience of the original game. H2 will presumably be there when you want to get around to it, even if that's after a satiation delay due to being such a similar game

[rare summit]

As an Arthur enjoyer in Hades 1, I realize how I like how chonky the axe feels

[marsh karma]

I never really got a hang of aspect of medea in general, i always like the multitasking of Hell the most

[timid hatch]

Oh man Aspect of Medea

Best surface run so far (only sub20 surface I think, checked since recently wasn't sure if had done one) was Medea.

Just like... lots of zipping around in hypermurdermode without even needing Omegas

[marsh karma]

The thing with Aspect of Medea is that on a meta standpoint, it's obviously the best but on a game design standpoint, it's probably the poorest designed weapon in the game

Since it basically reverts the feel and combat of H2 back H1 by basically nullifying the need to ever do anything but your specials

[bitter stirrup]

Many aspects' "optimal" play ignores omegas though

And even with Medea you want to cast all the time

[lean bronze]

24 fear surface done
nights champion, beat typhon with all nocturnal arms and 20 fear skull testament all in one go

[torpid flicker]

Ahhh ic thx

[lean bronze]

do you have some speedrun tips for beginners who want to try it
3 mins in erebus and 5 mins for erebus+oceanus is just miserable

[bitter stirrup]

I am also a speedrun beginner tbh

I kinda want to try it since it can be less stressful than fear but I know if I ever get a great build I'll be thinking it was wasted on a non high-fear run lol

But I really can't give any advice outside of the obvious "take every skip"

[lean bronze]

ah understood
do you know who i can ask?
i do be taking every skip dw

[bitter stirrup]

Kol and jpieces are the ones I know off the top of my head that main speedruns here

[real scarab]

https://youtu.be/hMmholFSJoc

[broken creek]

shoutout boated

but yeah tldr take medea, use reroll arcana, zeus r1 -> fig leaf -> gorgon -> antler is the keepsake route

ideal build goal is zeus special hera attack possessed array and a well fed born gain and everything blows up

take every room skip(npcs, shops, chaos), take every miniboss since theyre faster than regular rooms, frenzy2 makes everything spawn faster, shadow is taken for one UW miniboss, in tartarus you dont take hades since he makes the proceeding rooms longer, uhhhhh yeah i think thats about it

[lean bronze]

[lean bronze]

should i turn on god mode for speedruns?

(is it allowed)

[broken creek]

uhhh i wouldnt think so

if you wanna use it for practice to get more used to medea sure, but for actual runs its not allowed

[lean bronze]

aight
time to start my medea training arc

it'd be nice to not hit air fr

[marsh wedge]

does anyone have an extra Hades 2 card I have extra melinoe

[lean bronze]

beat trial of doom
that one took a few tries

[wide wigeon]

why is nem saying thr "already hit a wall" dialog when I already beat gramps on night 1

this is after I died in night 2 by the way

[broken creek]

lmao h1 had similar things

i did a hell mode fresh file there and played on a little bit and the dialogue got so backed up

[lean bronze]

im stuck in the 10:00-9:00 zone in terms of underworld speedruns

[torn wind]

Are you always prioritizing fastest route rather than best reward?

[lean bronze]

yes

[torn wind]

What’s your typical time getting out of Erebus?

[lean bronze]

a few seconds less than 3 mins

3 mins ish

[torn wind]

That’s definitely on the slower side for sure

Is that with special encounters and mid shops or no?

Big time losses in Erebus really just come down to encounter RNG and enemy spawns since stuff like worms and spindles spawning really far away from the exit can waste a lot of time

[foggy sable]

yall ever just forget about tall order until it shows up right at the end?

also anubis can be insane with heph lol

[torn wind]

It’s good if you get the cooldown low enough and get something like chain reaction yeah

Since it can just instantly activate every time

[foggy sable]

I got a 2 second cooldown on the attack

I love it when hephaestus blasts do nearly double what anything else did

[torn wind]

The damage can be a bit inaccurate since it counts overkill damage if I’m correct

[foggy sable]

I also got a rare blood spree so I was basically immortal

[foggy sable]

ok but still

[torn wind]

Yeah still

[foggy sable]

big number

[torn wind]

Heph blasts are very strong when you build into them

They definitely get neutered a bit by wards but getting something like static shock or hitch can help a ton with that

Or Hestia if you’re already going for her to get chain reaction

[foggy sable]

remind me what hitch is? its been awhile since I last properly played lol

[torn wind]

Hera

[foggy sable]

right

my current goal is to get every weapon to 16 fear so that it looks cool

[torn wind]

I’m working on all 40 fear but I might change that to 50 idk I need to get more comfortable with rivals 4

[foggy sable]

like yk how the best number on any of the stats is green?

I want them all green 🔥

unfortunately thats basically impossible with the time ones

so im sticking to fear

[torn wind]

I ruined it by doing 50 fear on a weapon on under and overworld when I’d been doing 40 before

[foggy sable]

aw dang it

[torn wind]

You might as well do that with 32 UW and 24 surface since that’s what you need for nights champion

So if you were to get that it would ruin your green numbers

[foggy sable]

well yeah but I can do that after ive hit 16 fear

[torn wind]

Also max for testament bounties is 20 fear

[foggy sable]

and then I can move on to the bigger numbers

idk i like all the aspects so I dont wanna leave any behind lol

[torn wind]

I’m just saying I feel you might as well finish doing the other stuff first so it doesn’t feel like a waste but that’s up to you

You’re kind just mopping back the ocean tide by doing all of that for green numbers then proceeding to just go to a higher fear anyways

Takes a good number of hours to do 48 runs

[white zodiac]

im trying to get the aspect of shiva but selene wont give me the waking phrase even after i beat chronos with her aspect

[bitter stirrup]

Do you have Nyx unlocked and Selene or Nyx at level 5

[white zodiac]

yeah i do but i only have mel at lvl 5

[bitter stirrup]

It has to be Selene or Nyx at level 5

[torn wind]

It’s okay shiva is dookie anyways

[white zodiac]

oh okay thanks

[torn wind]

But it is kinda fun

[white zodiac]

im tryna 100 percent

[bitter stirrup]

Many good players like Shiva but I am not one of them and I HATE Shiva

[torn wind]

I mean plenty of people hate on aspects like Pan but Pan has done max fear when plenty of other aspects haven’t

It’s dislike for a weapon because it’s very dependent on specific builds with not much room for flexibility

So quite strong but requires a lot of resets to get a decent run going

[bitter stirrup]

iIrc the high fear tech for Shiva is dashing in between the attack combo so you get to move while not using the slow ass dash-strike

At least that's what was done in the 67 by Vytautas

So counterintuitive for dash-strikes to be BAD

[torn wind]

Yeah shiva dash attack is buns

Super slow and doesn’t even do that much damage to make up for it

[elfin heron]

huh, why do people prefer Shiva over other coats? the rockets are much better than the basketballs IMO

[broken creek]

Cuz big punch feel good

And it builds slightly differently than the other coats which can be a nice change of pace

[elfin heron]

are Shiva punches considerably different? and do the charges affect them?

when you have a charge going there's dark energy around the fists, but idk if it means anything

[bitter stirrup]

Shiva punches are an attack combo that goes 40-40-70+70

[broken creek]

I mean in a high fear context omegas are never touched

But the attack sequence change lets % scaling still beat out posiedon, iirc apollo is the standard take

Since apollo size bonus is on a per weapon basis rather than a standard across them all, and coat gets a pretty massive modifier from it

[elfin heron]

is the charge gimmick only for the omega attack? or does it boost regular attacks as well?

[broken creek]

Just omega

[elfin heron]

meh

Nyx is better then

[broken creek]

Well yeah ofc

But like why play anything that isnt medea or mel staff then

Nightspawn is just build in shimmering rockets its kinda hard to beat that

[elfin heron]

huh, why Mel staff though? I stopped playing it a long time ago once I maxed out Momus and Circe

Mel's only advantage is chunky specials

[broken creek]

Yeah and its insane

80 base damage specials is ridiculous

[elfin heron]

so what, you take Apollo or Hera and just spam specials while dash canceling?

[broken creek]

Add on dual moonshot and a half decent % scaler and you have 300+ damage on a ranged 1 button press weapon that stays ridiculously mobile and can be built with any god

And is zero mana

[bitter stirrup]

Dash-strike + Special with hopefully Zeus on attack and Hera/Aphrodite/Apollo/(maybe Demeter/Ares) on special

[broken creek]

Its extremely safe, flexible, and consistent and is kinda the uncontested best fear climbing weapon

[elfin heron]

idk, Circe with Raki and Zeus/Hestia cast is very strong, and if you get gust ring + air quality then it's literally cheating

[bitter stirrup]

There's a reason it has 11 67 fear clears when no other aspect has more than 5

[broken creek]

Sure but then you need those boons when mel only needs 2

[elfin heron]

I should try Mel again sometime I guess

[broken creek]

Plus staff has a gazillion insane hammers so anything is gonna work if you try hard enough

[elfin heron]

if you're specifically building around the special, it's just dual moonshot though? what else?

ah, there's also the bouncy one, what was it called

[bitter stirrup]

Shimmering Moonshot is good, Melting Swipe is insane utility, then the Thrasher hammers are good fallbacks

[broken creek]

Shimmering is insahe with hera on special, wicked thrasher is a +30 power on the attack, mirrored thrasher is functionally a 2x on the attack, melting swipe ruins armor and mixed with hera will nuke rooms

[torn wind]

Yeah Mel staff special is genuinely stronger than many entire aspects as a singular move

[elfin heron]

is shimmering the one where it bounces to other enemies?

[broken creek]

Yeah

[torn wind]

Yeah

[broken creek]

I think someone did the math and like a shimmering moonshot hera special deals like near 1000 damage if its crowded enough

[elfin heron]

yeah but what about bosses

[torn wind]

Shimmering + dual moonshot just lets you instakill most enemy groups with hitch

[broken creek]

You still will have a 300+ button bomb that takes 0 effort and has 0 downtime

Its not hard to get the special to deal like 500+ without crits

[elfin heron]

wdym 0 downtime, even with dash cancels there's a bit of a cooldown

[bitter stirrup]

Common Zeus attack + Common Hera special without Dual Moonshot or any other multipliers is already like 350 damage

[broken creek]

You dont have to manage mana or wait for a cast to finish

[torn wind]

“Oh no I’m out of magick whatever will I do.” pulls out the 0 magick Mel staff glock

[bitter stirrup]

Now add rarity, Dual Moonshot, Furies, Origination, Huntress

[elfin heron]

I'm still not convinced though
what if you play Mel axe and just dash strike, isn't that even more damage, and still 0 magic, and still ok mobility

[broken creek]

Mel special base is 80, iirc common jpom hera is 90%, dual moonshot is 2x, orig/strength/furies is 100%, youre already at ~500 in one special press

[broken creek]

No

Its not nearly as fast, safe, or efficient

[torn wind]

Dash attack Mel axe’s strongest buff is the hammer that adds the two explosions and without that it’s not nearly as good

[broken creek]

Since remember staff special is a piercing projectile

[bitter stirrup]

Mel Staff dash-strike + special can be done from afar even with Dual Moonshot

[torn wind]

And even still it’s quite unsafe

[bitter stirrup]

And can be done while moving laterally or away from the enemy

[broken creek]

Mhm that too the dash attack is still massive

While axe you have to be point blank, hit almost nothing unless you get 2 very specific hammers, and still you wont be matching mel staff damage and efficiency

[elfin heron]

so you're saying no one uses omegas at high fear, is that because of the vows that gimp your magic?

[broken creek]

Yeah

And they become very dependent on certain gains and rewards that could just not happen

[torn wind]

Why use magick when a tonic is 300 free gold

[broken creek]

Shiva, charon, thanatos, hel, persephone, momus just to name a few all forgoe magic at high fear

[elfin heron]

can you still take judgment on max fear, or is it 0 grasp?

[broken creek]

0 grasp at 67 yeah but you can take it at 65

Since 65 is 6 grasp

[bitter stirrup]

And when you're priming 80 magick from Trusty Shield and Static Shock

[torn wind]

67 is absolute no arcanas without using Circe keepsake or her boon

[elfin heron]

67 seems pretty harsh

like, barely beatable

[broken creek]

Its extremely doable

[torn wind]

If going from 62 to 65 if a steep climb, 67 is a cliff face

But it’s definitely still doable

[broken creek]

Ive gotten to chronos 3 times, atp half the weapons if not more have done it(some on multiple routes), iirc there's over 10 different players who have cleared it

[elfin heron]

there's that prophecy where you need to beat regular Hecate with 0 grasp and it feels like it takes forever, but now it's the whole game + rivals

[torn wind]

It’s just that you have zero passive damage buffs or ways to recover damage in any ways. So the entire game turns into a gauntlet of enemy knowledge

[broken creek]

Sure vyt has like a gazillion of those clears but 67 is very very doable and kinda fun once you get past erebus

[torn wind]

I remember somebody saying they were legitimately PRACTICING the shadow spiller warden fight

Because you can’t possibly kill the shadow minions

[broken creek]

Dude that fight is really dumb tbf

[torn wind]

And they are nearly impossible to avoid

[broken creek]

I hate wailers at max fear

[elfin heron]

oh yeah, what about the shadow warden vow? is the clone invincible? just dodge its attacks?

[torn wind]

Yeah wailers are already BS enough but not even being able to tank the hit is absurd

[broken creek]

Just dodge it/ignore it yeah, they can be killed but the fight only ends when the main one is killed

Ive thought about reinstalling to gun for 67 again but then id have to relearn the whole thing lmao

[torn wind]

Shadow vow gives minions to every fight but the wailers spawn way too many to possibly deal with them in a timely fashion so you just have to bum rush the spiller and hope you can do enough damage

The master slicer fight also apparently sucks. Root stalker is amazing to get at 67 fear since it’s basically unchanged

[broken creek]

Shadow spiller is a dps check, the tree one is free, and the assassin is annoying asf

[elfin heron]

I had this vow on and only noticed the clone in Oceanus, the seahorse mini-boss

[torn wind]

It’s actually faster for speedrunning to always run shadow vow because specifically on shadow spiller it removes the root enemies around the outside of the arena that you’re forced to kill

[broken creek]

But like ideally assuming you had good luck in erebus the rest of the run comes down to your own execution and not getting terrible fangs rooms

[torn wind]

Shadow vow makes a single fight in the entire game inherently faster by removing enemies that you have to kill

But it can also make some fights faster due to having more enemies to hitch and such

Like the king vermin

[elfin heron]

oh yeah king vermin, once Odysseus told me about him, the boss name changed from uh oh to king vermin, neat little detail

[broken creek]

Oh good point actually I always forget thats a big part of shadow

[torn wind]

Yeah more enemies to hitch genuinely makes having vow of shadow easier in some cases

Also for on-death effects

[elfin heron]

so people say some weapons are bad on max fear, but can't you make a Zeus cast build on any weapon?

that should win the game, no?

with bridal glow, pom pom pom etc you can make a complete nuke build, just cast and run away