h2-discussion

[heady garden]

With the Black Coat

[vocal lance]

why ||aspect of Anubis|| is so op? i literally burned bosses to ashes in few hits

[raw rover]

be me
over 400 hours spent
all achievements done, everything done, nothing else left to do in the game
uninstall.exe
be stuck in traffic with random liked songs on Spotify
"DROWN.... DROWN..."
goddammit

I'm gonna have to play some H2 when I get home

That didn't happen with Eurydice's song on Hades 1

[cunning laurel]

its a real life greentext

i agree tho scylla got some heat

[elfin heron]

Scylla's songs remind me of the River City Girls 1/2 soundtrack

e.g. this song is very similar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7VD59-2b1g

[raw rover]

We both old for that, you know that

[marsh karma]

Personally Wrath of Olympus is what got me to buy the soundtrack for the game

That 2nd half with the orchestral rock breakdown is titan-like

[bitter stirrup]

*Wrath of the Heavens

[deep harbor]

Oh that was nuts. So I re-bought the game on Switch 2 awhile ago (already had it on steam but hey, love the devs) and restarted. Just got my first Typhon clear and ow my arm

Mel coat with Zeus attack, static shock and the hammer that makes your dash attack fire 3 times.

Nothing but dash>attack>repeat with occasional dashing out to avoid something.

actually hurt my arm lol

[proper seal]

Edge of Erebus might just be the most underrated music ive ever listened

that 2nd half of the song IS PEAK

[bitter stirrup]

Crossed Flames >

[still mantle]

In case you didn't know I'm referring to rivals scylla, which many people find quite difficult

[dull pike]

Ahh I have not reached whatever that is. Sorry!

[still mantle]

Have you unlocked the oath yet?

[dull pike]

Yes

Oh is that what they're calling the buffed bosses now?

[still mantle]

Yeah cuz the vow is called rivals

[jolly hound]

TENTACLES

[dull pike]

Ahhh okok thanks I have not done that I'm like mid early game I think so I haven't had a reason to with much fear

[proper seal]

yea its basically the pact of punishments

[final saddle]

Rivals Scylla, Polyphemus, Chronos, and Cerberus are the biggest jumps in difficulty imo

[night acorn]

Hi any idea if they ll do steam hades 1 +2 bundle without soundtracks ?

[hard flame]

I think you can basically trace the lineage back from Scylla to Megan McDuffie to the Hex Girls to the Misfits 🙂

[quartz temple]

are there any character sheets for Scylla and the Sirens?

[craggy totem]

Character sheets in what sense

[quartz temple]

like…any reference sheets or any pics from an art book???? i wanna draw them but i need a good reference of their designs ^^

like any references of their 3d models or anything like that? or their designs in general

[proper seal]

I think that will happen once the Xbox and playstation ports have been released

But I suggest looking for discounts for both games

[pulsar tiger]

lol Hades 2 played for 200 hours or more on my switch 2

perfect switch 2 game 0 complaints

i give hades 2 a 96/100

i have even more hours on my pc

[cunning laurel]

wheres the -4

[jolly hound]

I just broke 300 yesterday

432 runs, which passes my h1 run count

[hard flame]

Only Narcissus is a perfect 100. You can approach 100, but you can't touch

[viral moat]

Narcissus is 101, he is so perfect and wonderful that he gets an extra point just for him

[sterile sequoia]

im almost at 100 hours on h2, currently at 85 with 100 n some change nights

[viral moat]

I am still trying to finish the main story at 50 hours in 😭

[torn wind]

I have one complaint you can consider

Charybdis when you’re on a good pace on surface

Oh boy I love a mandatory 45 second encounter

But not a serious issue I do genuinely love this game

[tiny swallow]

The perfect time for the postgame boss to show up, while I'm testing a new weapon, aspect, and familiar, needless to say they shredded through 5 death defiances

[sterile sequoia]

Yeah.

the other day i lost a run not to the boss itself but because i forgot you get plopped right into the next encounter after it n i had like 10 health n no DDs (was on strength)

[tiny swallow]

Well on the bright side afterwards I got to improve my relationship with 2 of the romances, and found out I'm maxed out for a third (for now)

[elfin heron]

that boss is so ass, very overtuned and spawns only like once every 5 runs, I only beat them once, so no keepsake yet

run Strength, they will one shot you otherwise, even with Strength they can hit for like 60 dmg

[proud swift]

|| It is lore accurate though.😂||

[elfin heron]

idk about that, ||the spear charged attack had a long windup in the first game, here it's instant and you say goodbye to half of your health bar||

it's like the devs looked at ||Theseus|| and said now can how we make this boss more annoying

[torn wind]

I mean he’s a million times easier than Charon tbh

Can literally just run away the whole fight and they can’t catch you

And the attacks are all pretty slow and reactable even on Frenzy 2

I still suck at fighting him but it’s a pretty fair fight overall

[elfin heron]

yeah my winning attempt was with Momus, just spammed omegas, it's not fun though, ||he even has a DD||

[torn wind]

Lore accurate fight

Average ||play fighting with older sibling experience||

[elfin heron]

it's satisfying when you finally skewer them and they bleed to death and literally die ||only to respawn back home||

[torn wind]

That is the funny thing is Mel never actually experiences dying

Very close but she always just teleports back home

[elfin heron]

funnily enough, Hecate is the only other person who does the "return to shadow now" thing

||FORESHADOWING||

[torn wind]

Eris does it technically

She jokingly says “return to shadow… now?”

[elfin heron]

Eris is different, there are those ghost arms pulling her down

[torn wind]

But like she doesn’t actually die

It’s not like H1 where you legit just kill the furies

[elfin heron]

while Melinoe and Hecate have the House of Hades symbol show up

[elfin heron]

maybe the devs thought this was too violent, idk

[torn wind]

I mean you still kill ||zagreus||

the same way as in H1

[elfin heron]

H2 kinda cutefies a bunch of things, one of the reasons why H1 diehards don't like it as much, what with all the cute animals and such

[torn wind]

I really don’t think violence is a concern lol

[sterile sequoia]

considering both games i dont think SGG are that opposed to violence

[elfin heron]

yeah, and because it's a one-off it really stands out

[torn wind]

You literally earned plushies by befriending people on H1

Your summons were designated by plushies you received from various characters

I don’t think cuteness is a new thing to H2

[elfin heron]

well I was browsing negative H2 reviews the other day and some people said that it's a female protag game and everything is cute now, and I can kinda see that, dumb complaint though, it's okay for 2 to do its own thing

[torn wind]

The “anti-woke” reviews are such garbage

[sterile sequoia]

thats insane

[torn wind]

And even humoring them is silly

[sterile sequoia]

i think the return to shadow now thing is more just bc it fits mel's character

[proud swift]

Steam community has some of the most absolutely miserable gamers out there.

[torn wind]

“Everything is cute now” because I’m a witch and I have animal familiars

That’s like the only thing I’d even consider cute in this game

And it’s not even something particularly special

[elfin heron]

this wasn't about wokeness, they just felt it was less gritty compared to 1

[sterile sequoia]

like using the last of her strength to return instead of just eating the death is a pretty smart tactic

[torn wind]

If somebody complains about a female protagonist then it is

It’s the same people that hated that Zag wasn’t explicitly straight in the first game

[elfin heron]

they also complained about Dora being too silly, idk I can kinda see that angle, I just don't have an issue with cuteness

[torn wind]

Bruh wtf are these opinions

Not you, the reviews

[sterile sequoia]

as if the first game didnt have silly characters???

dusa n skelly are right there like

[torn wind]

I could infinitely waste nectar on Bouldy and they complain that this game is too silly

[sterile sequoia]

its not a waste if you believe in bouldy n bouldy believes in you

[torn wind]

Theseus was a giant doofus with a machine gun chariot

[elfin heron]

perhaps their main issue was the female protagonist and they were nitpicking other stuff

[torn wind]

Heck, we befriended a floating gorgon head that would fly away if we even spoke to her

Because she fangirled over us

Like these are just normal video game things

People will find anything to complain about

[sterile sequoia]

on gods

also taking issue with a female protagonist in the year of our lord 2026 is just Sad

[torn wind]

“This game is too woke anyways I’m gonna go cheat on my loving wife now”

[elfin heron]

I play a lot of female protagonist games, some of them are my all time favorites like Silksong and A Hat in Time

[sterile sequoia]

hornet sweep

[torn wind]

“I refuse to romance Moros or Icarus because it makes me uncomfortable”

[jolly hound]

I do regret romancing Eris

And look who’s running America rn, hades reviews are the least of our problems

[torn wind]

I hate it here

[elfin heron]

that's a self-insert thing, some people have trouble seeing a protagonist as its own character

[torn wind]

I didn’t mean to push the convo to political but like yeah the growing volume of “anti-woke” commentary in a medium that is still incredibly dominated by social norms is definitely related to the changing acceptance of hatred in the US, one of the largest creators and consumers of media

[elfin heron]

why not, it's surpisingly tame, nothing really happens

[torn wind]

Yeah those same people probably hate Cyberpunk

Or any RPG ever where they aren’t an explicitly masculine and perfect example of their values

[sterile sequoia]

i kinda wish momus n oizys were present in the game cuz could you imagine them being in the same room as eris

world's most annoying conversation

[elfin heron]

when playing RPG's a lot of people try to create themselves (self-insert), while others try to think of a cool character (like in a DnD session) and actually roleplay them, the latter is obviously more effort and thus more rare I think

[torn wind]

“Well, you just named some of them”

[sterile sequoia]

it'd be so funny

[torn wind]

You can entirely play a character the way you want to in RPG’s but there’s a reason why so many of them present moral dilemmas that will potentially lock you out of content. You have to choose between playing yourself or your insert character, or doing what feels right.

The issue with many RPG’s though is when they force the creators will upon the morality

[elfin heron]

so Momus was like a fool/jester archetype? wonder why the staff has a snake motif

[torn wind]

Rather than remaining truly neutral or leaning to agreeable

Gods often shapeshift into creatures in mythology in the mortal world

Or are symbolized in artwork as animals

Owls often being a symbol of Athena and wisdom

[elfin heron]

you can only have so many choices in a video game, there's no DM to provide infinite possibilities, I remember this being a common criticism of Fallout 3, the game mostly had black and white choices, kill or save etc, be super nice or a complete jerk etc, the devs responded by making The Pitt DLC where a more complex moral dilemma was presented, still just 2 choices though lol

[limpid stream]

Someone convince me of either the blades, skull, or coat. I never run them and have no idea how to build around them

[torn wind]

Yeah I did appreciate that Cyberpunk, just as an example, gave me more middle grounds. One such example being a guy that went cyber psycho and killed a bunch of people and you’re tasked with hunting him down. You have to decide to just waste him, hand him over to the people who want him dead, let him go free, or the secret option to force him to seek therapy. If you send him to therapy he’ll later message you asking if he should send money to the families of those he killed.

It’s not explicitly black and white

But so many people break down when games don’t give them options they like

[elfin heron]

save the coat for later, it's the last weapon they added, and it's a bit rushed and not that well thought out, skulls require picking up, so that's a different gameplay loop, the blades deal absurd damage with poseidon strike + slippery slope, very easy to play, use the default aspect with the +100% backstab damage bonus

[torn wind]

Which is where dumb criticisms on games like H2 come from

Where people refuse to accept that they’re playing a character

[broken glen]

For the blades, only the hidden aspect really shines for me. Pan is… alright, but it never was the same after the nerfs. The triads are just so juicy

[torn wind]

What about coat is rushed lol

What kinda opinion is that

It’s just a different weapon

[limpid stream]

I don’t have any hidden aspects RIP

[elfin heron]

the omega attack for instance, almost no one ever uses it because it's bad
the aspects are also all inferior to the default one

[jolly hound]

blades are basically trick knives and you win or no trick knives and you dont

[torn wind]

Nyx is literally top 8 in the game

[jolly hound]

skull, parray is so fun once you manage to collect all the pieces of exodia

[limpid stream]

I also don’t have Coat of Nyx but I think that’s the only normal aspect I’m missing

[torn wind]

It’s so much better than base aspect

Imagine thinking base coat is better than nyx

Also I mean like yeah there’s some stuff you don’t use on some weapons

[elfin heron]

the speed on mel is nicer

[torn wind]

You can solo the early game just using omega dash

And the missiles are just fundamentally better on nyx because of how broken they are with Poseidon waves or scorch

[elfin heron]

default coat is the highest mobility weapon/aspect in the game, it's just nice to be able to zip around

[torn wind]

Medea wants a word

Medea is the fastest aspect in the game for a reason lol

Mel coat barely even shows up on the leaderboards

[elfin heron]

is it faster than coat sprinting?

[torn wind]

Yes

[elfin heron]

hmmmmm, are you sure

[torn wind]

Imagine choosing an aspect on just a 20% speed buff though

[jolly hound]

The special dash moves fairly quickly, coat has sustained sprint speed, but Medea will finish the run faster

[limpid stream]

Trying Mel blades with Heroic Wave Strike

[torn wind]

Medea is as fast if not faster and also does way more damage

[elfin heron]

I mean, medea is faster at killing things, it's one of the highest DPS aspects, but I was talking pure movement

[torn wind]

Sprint speed matters very little if it takes me more time to kill stuff

[elfin heron]

I just enjoy the default coat's movement, the jetpack makes Mel fly around so fast

[torn wind]

If you’re really playing for speed then ideally you spend as little time running around as possible

Moros torches is one of the fastest aspects in the game for speedruns even though you spend half the time slowly moving around attacking

Because it kills stuff so fast

[elfin heron]

well I'm just a casual player, I don't optimize that hard

[torn wind]

But I’m just saying like Mel coat is GOOD like it’s a very solid aspect but there’s a reason Nyx is considered better

You can instakill nearly every enemy in the early game and the missiles have insane room clear

[elfin heron]

but anyway, speaking TTK I was really surprised by sister blades, aspect of melinoe
the build was: wave strike + slippery slope + daze rush + back burner
dash behind the enemy, just mash attack, they die near instantly, even bosses
this felt almost bugged, never seen anything like this again

[torn wind]

Oh yeah I had a super strong run recently with Mel blades

Trick knives is also insanely strong though I didn’t get it

Back burner is nuts too

[elfin heron]

with backburner and the base backstab bonus every hit is basically like a crit, 3x damage or so

maybe more?

[torn wind]

Yeah blades are very strong for single target damage just the thing that holds them back is that they lack area and require you to run around a lot more and chase down enemies

Some of the strongest aspects in the game are ones that basically clear rooms for you or are insanely fast to get around

Blades just generally lacks that

[elfin heron]

trick knives are good for crowd damage, if you don't have them then just spam o special

[torn wind]

I just spam dash attack anyways since ospecial requires to you channel and does very little base damage

[elfin heron]

you should have zeus or something on the special

[torn wind]

Zeus ospecial is good though yeah

Since it makes up for what ospecial lacks which is any meaningful amount of damage

It leaves you too vulnerable a lot of the time to really get up close

And the damage payoff for doing it is pretty pitiful

[elfin heron]

the coat is kinda the same, the rockets don't deal too much damage so you don't have any big attacks like on other weapons

[torn wind]

Splash or scorch missiles are super strong

Or Zeus

Since missiles are incredibly spammable

[elfin heron]

I usually use hitch

scorch on attack, hitch on special was my best coat run

[torn wind]

Coat is great for room clear and hitch works fine but often falls behind on boss damage if you don’t go flat damage fun

If you have nyx coat then nexus rush is good since you can get enemies with it while charging omega rush

And then still run splash, scorch, or blitz on special

[elfin heron]

I think I have Nyx maxed out, because Selene was trash so I skipped that, and I needed to max one aspect for Shiva

[torn wind]

My fastest underworld run by a good margin is actually Selene coat just cause I got a really good heinous affront build lol

[elfin heron]

but turns out I still need to max Selene for her relationship progress, ugh

[torn wind]

But the aspect itself isn’t great

I basically never got to use the hex because it takes so long to charge

[elfin heron]

can you still use normal hexes?

[torn wind]

Nope

[elfin heron]

worst aspect in the game then

[torn wind]

I mean it’s definitely like bottom 5

Just since it’s a worse version of the other coats with a hex you’ll rarely ever get to use since you basically never use omegas on coat

[elfin heron]

that's why I said coat was rushed, Selene is basically so ass, it's like they never playtested it properly

hexes can be very powerful, and this aspect ditches them entirely

[craggy totem]

Selene is seriously not that bad

[torn wind]

#h2-victory-boasting message

It’s not terrible no I actually quite enjoyed it

[craggy totem]

Literally all you need to do is slap on some magick-cost increasers or activate Growth

Fine Line does the trick beautifully -- it quadruples your ospecial magick cost

[elfin heron]

does it actually do anything outside of having that hard to charge hex? is it just mel coat without the speed buff otherwise?

[craggy totem]

Again, it's not that hard to charge

[cunning laurel]

yea slow mel coat if you ignore hex

[craggy totem]

But yes, it's just base coat

~~and base coat is a great weapon so you're already ahead 👀 ~~

im UNBIASED

[torn wind]

Yeah I hated coat early on cause I fell into the hole of thinking ospecial was strong and spamming it

[elfin heron]

base coat is only good after you max it out, rank 1 it's so slow the DPS is pretty bad

[torn wind]

I mean you’re welcome to watch the video I linked

[craggy totem]

The dash strike aint that slow no matter what speed you're at

[torn wind]

Dash attack with static shock is nutty. Also if I’m correct the wounds from ares attack can hit multiple times on dash attack

[craggy totem]

No, wounds have ICD

[torn wind]

It’s not as strong as Poseidon waves or scorch but it made for a lot of burst damage

[elfin heron]

I remember when I unlocked the coat and the demo trial for it, and it was so bad I almost gave up on the weapon, but it's pretty nice after the upgrades

[craggy totem]

Or do you mean like it applies on all three hits, in which case I don't know

[torn wind]

I recalled seeing red numbers multiple times in the first few areas

That it hit for the increase damage 2 or 3 times

[craggy totem]

I know grape juice has that effect with some multi-hit moves, but I'm not so sure about Wounds

given the icd

[torn wind]

It’s likely that it has to hit within a short time frame

[elfin heron]

btw, is Hel worth upgrading, not sure what to spend nightmare on next, Hel seems fun, could be good with poseidon waves?

[torn wind]

Hence that I recall sometimes the third hit not getting the red numbers

[craggy totem]

It is good with Poseidon waves, though overall the aspect can be a little finicky if you're trying to go fast or slap on lots of Fear

A fun change from normal skulls though

[torn wind]

Poseidon waves is sometimes actually really annoying on hel since it pushes everybody away

[cunning laurel]

hel is my fav skull

[torn wind]

But for pure damage it’s good

Freezer burn is pretty fun on Hel

[craggy totem]

Simply Poseidon/Hera/Zeus/Demeter

They can't be pushed away if they're frozen /taps nose

[elfin heron]

the demo trial had some scorch/freeze hybrid build, but I feel like poseidon should be meta given the fast fire rate

[torn wind]

Scorch does more actual damage per hit but doesn’t have AOE

[cunning laurel]

hestia is better yea

[elfin heron]

not sure about the special though, seems chunky, maybe a % boon?

[craggy totem]

For the millionth time, those aren't demo trials, they're just trials

They don't show you The Best/Intended Way To Play The Aspect 😆

[torn wind]

Freeze, blitz or hitch are solid on Hel special or ospecial since it hits everybody

[cunning laurel]

hera zeus or bust tbh

[craggy totem]

On special you probably want Hera or Zeus

Hera is ridiculously good, you hitch everything

[cunning laurel]

demeter is just ok

[torn wind]

It’s a very safe option

[craggy totem]

Yeah but you can just stick her on cast

[torn wind]

But not great, no

I’d say if you had the choice definitely Zeus or Hera special on Hel

Since it’s easy to just chuck out the special and hitch everybody

[craggy totem]

Given the comment about AOE I would theorycraft that if you go Scorch, Hera special becomes even bigger

since Hitch spread gives you pseudo-AOE

[elfin heron]

so hestia or poseidon attack, zeus or hera special

[cunning laurel]

zeus attack is good too

close to poseidon i reckon

[torn wind]

Yeah for sure would be great with hereditary bane

[elfin heron]

though, Ares special could maybe be sick too?

[craggy totem]

Are you thinking about Static or 🤔

[torn wind]

Ares special is fineee but not great

[cunning laurel]

nah blitz

its always blitz cmon

[craggy totem]

Blitz attack gets you close to Poseidon?????

what are you popping the blitz with

[cunning laurel]

its pretty good yea

[elfin heron]

the wound power boost cooldown is like 3 sec IIRC, you won't be spamming the special that often

[torn wind]

Just keep shooting them

[craggy totem]

Base Hel attack kinda dinky

[torn wind]

I mean 140 damage isn’t that hard to achieve with static shock and all

[craggy totem]

Right, which is why I asked if andrw meant Static

[torn wind]

Maybe idk

[craggy totem]

But andrw clarified no, literal Zeus attack with Blitz, so that's why I'm wondering what you're popping it with

[cunning laurel]

oh usually you will have static as well but blitz is also good

[elfin heron]

it's funny how almost no one ever recommends Ares on any aspect, I like him on the axe special

[torn wind]

I’d rather a larger % buff if I’m doing axe ospecial since the base power is already pretty high

[craggy totem]

I mean, you don't usually take him for cores unless you're doing funni Heinous Affront

[torn wind]

So +50 matters a lot less

[craggy totem]

I will say he's not bad to take on special if you're doing "as intended" Selene, though, especially with Shimmering, because the multi-target

[elfin heron]

but Ares is definitely a bit mid, that rush boon where 3 blades drop behind you is very impractical

[torn wind]

Cutting edge Supay ♥️

[craggy totem]

NGL I've had Rush show up on the damage board in runs where I took stabbing rush on a coat

[cunning laurel]

prevents a hecate timeout tho

[craggy totem]

No Cutting Edge or Coffin Nail or anything, just vanilla stabs

If you're spending all that time dashing around, it adds up ig

[torn wind]

Yeah I mean ~100 base damage is pretty solid

It’s not the worst rush IMHO

[elfin heron]

the blades drop a fair distance behind you, I can't really see a use case

[torn wind]

Supay dashing through enemies

[craggy totem]

Well, if you're dashing around a lot, you will also be dashing through enemies a lot

[torn wind]

Supay your main gameplan is running through people

So that your specials can hit them

[craggy totem]

And coat dash-strike turns you into a moving AOE

[elfin heron]

I don't understand Supay at all, so that's something for another day I guess

[torn wind]

Supay is insane with air quality static shock and Poseidon waves

Especially if you get the ones for the extra special projectile and faster orbit

[elfin heron]

I maxed out Anubis and Morrigan, so going to learn these two first, they seem to be the best hiddens by far

[torn wind]

Nergal is up there

[craggy totem]

Nergal has its proponents, yeah. It does force you into melee only in a way that no other aspect in the game does, though

[elfin heron]

Nergal seems horrible unless there's some meme health leech build potential, idk

[torn wind]

Yeah RIP fighting rivals Eris with Nergal

[craggy totem]

It is very good at the health leech

[torn wind]

Psychic whirlwind = win button

[craggy totem]

It's also an aspect where you have to max it or it sucks

[torn wind]

Yeah base Nergal is basically unuseable

[craggy totem]

Lower threshold for activating aforementioned health leech is vital for making it memeable

[elfin heron]

Nergal has absurdly low mobility and it's the only weapon in the game with no ranged attacks whatsoever

[torn wind]

Dash special still exists

For some mobility and to cancel your attacks

Nergal is a bit slow yeah but that’s why psychic whirlwind is so OP on it

Also you have full movement while charging ospecial

So you can dash and move while charging it for considerable mobility

And like every other axe you can dash out of Oattack charge

[craggy totem]

It's not that it has zero mobility options, but that they are still pretty lackluster compared to the alternatives

[torn wind]

Yeah easily my most frustrating moments were fighting Eris or chasing down Jetty

[cunning laurel]

i have 1200 nights and 4 with nergal

[craggy totem]

The thing is that the berserk mode is pretty powerful, for certain situations

[elfin heron]

speaking of axe's o attack, it's normally 20 magic right, and sometimes you get a boon that makes it 30 magic (weed killer or something, I forget), what if you charge it to only 20, is it the OG power, or stronger, or weaker

[torn wind]

Again though getting exceptional talent and psychic whirlwind is just a win button on Nergal

[torn wind]

It doesn’t increase the max charge cost it increases the base charge cost

So it behaves the same way at minimum charge

[cunning laurel]

yea it wont swing as long

[torn wind]

All magick increases just increase the base cost and don’t change how the move functions or how much the cost difference is between min and max charge

Exceptional talent + weed killer just makes it 50-60 instead of 10-20

Oh yeah also Nergal oattack charges way faster than the other axes

Like 3x faster or so

And way larger with more damage

[elfin heron]

honestly, I've no idea how you're supposed to play Nergal on the mountain/summit, esp with frenzy on, it's insanely slow

[torn wind]

As said before, psychic or bust

[craggy totem]

And that's why +cost boons are so good on Selene if you want to play toward the aspect

The minimum-charge ospecial is so fast, but you're still getting the full extra cost tacked on

[torn wind]

But like that’s literally how most people play it is if you don’t get psychic in like region 1 or 2 then just reset

[torn wind]

Yeah I just rolled with what I had sadly

[elfin heron]

or you can just play Thanatos/Charon

[torn wind]

Yeah and I can choose to not play Dr Mario in Smash Bros

“He sucks just don’t play him”

Just cause something has weaknesses doesn’t mean it isn’t still enjoyable

[elfin heron]

says the guy who finished a Selene run without using the hex

at that point, why even bother lol

[craggy totem]

Cos coat is nice

[torn wind]

Cause coat is still fun on its own

[cunning laurel]

opportunity cost of investing in a damn hex

[torn wind]

I didn’t get growth at all sadly

I just rushed the godsent and damage increases for bosses and didn’t get enough paths to get growth later

[craggy totem]

Selene also saves me from that situation where I pick up a Selene moondrop and the choices are Moon Water, Dark Side, and Total Eclipse (no-godsent ver.)

Even if I never hit my hex button that entire run, it still tilts me 😆

[torn wind]

Yeah coat hex isn’t the worst in the game

Though godsent total eclipse is big funny

[craggy totem]

BTW even if you never hit Growth, you can still use your hex in UW runs in Erebus if you have the incant that insta-charges your hexes when you step inside the warding circles

[torn wind]

Yeah I always forget about that

[craggy totem]

I did that incant and somehow managed to forget about it for ages too

[torn wind]

I just recently finished unlocking everything in the game

From finally pausing on rivals chronos

[craggy totem]

OH RIGHT.....

[torn wind]

I was wondering what that final thing I needed Moly for was

And yeah that was it. I’ve now unlocked everything in the game

[limpid stream]

Poseidon blades were fun but I burned like 5 DD on unrivaled Eris and that kinda ended the run lol

[torn wind]

Yeah she can be pretty rough the first time if you’re not used to getting behind her and all

[limpid stream]

This is also just the second time overall I fought unrivaled Eris lol

[gritty dew]

Does the pin come back after a few rooms even if you fail the 10 seconds countdown? I never really used it until recently and I swear I lost a DD on the first use and then the pin showed back up later

[torn wind]

Yeah if you tank the hit using a DD it still gives it to you on the next room

[gritty dew]

Oh crazy I thought it only gave it back if you beat the timer

[torn wind]

Nah that's why it's really strong at high fear

You get 10 seconds of invulnerability in place of spending a DD

And then if you fail you still just spend a DD and get to continue

[craggy totem]

Pin is every room

[torn wind]

One activation per room but you get it for as long as you have it equipped

Which is insane value at high fear

[flat magnet]

I saw a bug today where when using morph on Charybdis tentacles, they remained sheep during the bit where the tentacles normally hide while Charybdis shoots pink blobs at you

And then turned back to tentacles

And you could continue to damage both throughout, meaning the fight was much quicker

Is this known? Does this always happen?

[craggy totem]

It is known; I think it always happens but am not sure

[torn wind]

Yeah I’ve done that a few times

During morph enemies are locked out of all actions including the tentacles burrowing away

Sadly though you can’t morph Charybdis during the rivals Scylla fight

Which is interesting cause that means normal Charybdis kinda breaks the rule of not being able to morph wardens that have a boss healthbar

But the rivals fight follows the rule because it’s part of a guardian’s boss healthbar

[flat magnet]

Weird

Makes morph even better as hexes go

[torn wind]

Morph is one of the most no-brainer hexes if you have to take one

It’s insanely strong CC that entirely shuts down some of the most annoying enemies in the game

Satyr Sapper? Nah. Get Sheep’d idiot

Also it lets you bypass armor on those automatons that shield themselves

It’s just a fantastic hex even without a single upgrade or godsent

[night acorn]

I thought it did release when EA finished
Maybe there is hope

[torn wind]

Nah Nintendo signed an exclusivity deal at 1.0

So we’ll get a port at Q4 2026 at the earliest

But at most we’ll probably just get a bug fix patch and that’s it

[shadow grotto]

Zagreus is even hotter in this game

[torn wind]

And then they gave him the zestiest statue next to the buff Melinoes

[broken glen]

(Is there a statue of him in the base game?…)

[torn wind]

You mean H1?

What you mean "base game" as if H2 has a DLC lol

But nah in H1 the statues are of Skelly

[broken glen]

There’s a Hades 2 mod (Zagreus’ journey) that gives zagreus a statue next to the others (and it’s very zesty)

[torn wind]

That's in the base game

The statue of him kneeling? Yeah that's in the normal game

[broken glen]

It is. I can’t believe it I’m insane

I unlocked it on the same day the decor update came out for the mod…

[torn wind]

Lol

What a coincidence

But yeah that's 100% vanilla

[sterile sequoia]

i only just now realized the icon for vow of rivals/unrivaled prowess is mel carrying a boulder sisyphus style n not a 3/4 shot of a back of a skull

i think i might be blind

[tight apex]

hello i'm currently on 4 hours of my only achievement remaining being voice and vanity and narcissus keeps spouting random useless lines of dialogue at me instead of going to the fields so i can continue the quest, am i missing something or is my game just busted

[torn wind]

It's just what happens if there's other dialogue for the character that overrides the quest or that the dialogue is part of leading up to the quest

[tight apex]

i've been enjoying this game a lot but spending 10/15 minutes to get there in hopes he shows up and hopes he tells me the correct dialogue line is just so exhausting and unfun, is there anything i can do to speed this process up

[torn wind]

You have to also visit echo enough if you haven't already

[merry whale]

ye, dialogue luck strikes again

[limpid stream]

What does fear actually get you in this game

[merry whale]

nightmare, which is used for upgrading aspects

similar to titan blood in h1

[limpid oar]

get better at speedrunning, without fear you can get to fields in less than 10/15 minutes

[limpid stream]

Heaven Strike lvl 23

[limpid oar]

what red said, but aside from that there are extra resources in final regions you can only pick up if you have fear (or at least in Tartarus, not sure about Summit as I rarely play Surface) and some prophecies will want you to have certain amounts of fear on

[limpid stream]

Thanks

Also, unsurprisingly with lvl 23 Heaven Strike I killed ||Typhon|| lol. Fastest I’ve cleared him I think

[limpid oar]

how much blitz damage does a level 23 heaven strike deal?

[limpid stream]

I already left the win screen but it was like 400 something I think

[broken glen]

Well are we talking 10-15 IGT or RTA

With menus and intermissions things take a while

[limpid oar]

even if we're talking RTA, getting to Echo will take much less than 15 minutes with a bit of practice

and if the prophecy is the main goal they can just die in the next room and go next run, no need to finish it

[tight apex]

yeah that's what i've been doing but i'm just so incredibly bored and was hoping someone knew of a way to make him tell me the correct dialogue to advance the prophecy

or if i'm just out of luck and need to keep doing runs forever until he decides to be nice to me

[tiny swallow]

Anyone know how to upgrade the familiars? Because I currently have no idea right now and want to upgrade Raki

[limpid oar]

you may have to unlock every familiar first? not 100% sure on that, so someone pls correct me if I'm wrong 🥺

[tiny swallow]

Define every, the first three, or do I have to get the other two as well?

[slim pike]

It's atlas holding up the world. Sisyphus pushes the boulder

[limpid oar]

All 5 I think

[tiny swallow]

Damn you Hecate

[limpid oar]

Though I may be wrong on this because I unlocked upgrades back when there were 2 familiars

[royal cradle]

What do you use your Charon ticket's for when you've already upgraded everything?

[slim pike]

Nothing!

[viral moat]

Guess who finally beat the game

Only took me 50 hours!

Ngl I enjoyed the story more than I expected to

[elfin heron]

now go for the epilogue, it kinda recontextualizes the whole story, for better or worse

[viral moat]

Listening to the credits rn

[elfin heron]

ah, it will drop you back in the crossroads after the credits and there's still a lot of talking to do

[viral moat]

Hell yeah

[elfin heron]

but anyway, the "find the fates" prophecy will update again now that you've seen the ending, completing it will give you the epilogue ending, just keep it in mind

[viral moat]

What do I have to do to find them

[royal cradle]

The prophecy explains it pretty well 🙂

[dense flax]

Hi. Is there no bird's eye view of crossroads? Like the bat's eye view in hades 1?

[elfin heron]

no

[wide wigeon]

i need to check fresh file runs

do you kill the sandclocks in phase 2 gramps

[broken creek]

yeah you dont deal enough damage to ignore them

and if you dont kill them quick next time he does an ohko they can really easily mess with you

[broken creek]

at least i think its still the healing ones idk i havent fought normal gramps in ages

[wide wigeon]

i havent gotten beach ball in like 10 runs im getting the aphrodite hestia duo tho its great

[leaden glade]

Nope, just in Ephyra

[pulsar rose]

dude i just beat rivals scylla for the first time, why are ppl saying shes among the hardest????

that was really easy

[cunning laurel]

stray bullets hit for 30+

you probably dont have the fear on to make her difficult

[crude dragon]

It can very quickly become a bullet hell, especially when you mix in Frenzy

[pulsar rose]

ah i see

yeah im just grinding rivals upgrades, i only have rivals 2 on atm

[jolly hound]

Once its frenzy 2 rivals 2 you’ll probably take a few Ls to her

If I’m running Hestia her godsent hex is worth investing in early cause two charges of it wipes like, most of their health

[limpid stream]

Despite it initially being my favorite weapon (though I think I’ve changed my mind on that) I’ve apparently never cleared ||Typhon|| with the staff

[craggy totem]

Time to change that ;D

[limpid stream]

Trying to decide if I want to make it a jpom run

[craggy totem]

Always 😍

[limpid stream]

You’re right lol

No I got my least favorite god chamber 1

[jolly hound]

stick it on dash and try to make it work

or fate altered whatever

[shut needle]

Farm those nightmares

[limpid stream]

It was Selene I unfortunately can’t put her on dash lol

[craggy totem]

How dare

putting Selene on dash = pick Wolf Howl obv

[shut needle]

But now you know what Olympian to pair with her to be godsent

[jolly hound]

If you get mirrored thrasher going having a solid hex is really nice

[shut needle]

Can do builds where hex does most of your damage and keeps you safe

[limpid stream]

She has a duo boon????

[shut needle]

What hex did you get?

[limpid stream]

Night Bloom

[jolly hound]

That’s hera, her godsent makes your minion stronger

[limpid stream]

I thought she was like Hermes I didn’t know she had Duos lmao

[shut needle]

OK hera pairs with that to make it a super undead to fight with you, getting hera will open up a secret hidden upgrade on the path of stars
Heremes still doesn't lol rip

[limpid stream]

Selene is like the one chamber reward I reroll I don’t know how she works lmao

[shut needle]

Spend magic, use hex get path of stars to make hex stronger

[limpid stream]

I would have to give up Fated Whim to be godsent

[shut needle]

Oof ya that always sucks
Guess that answers my next question of how far you've gotten if you have fates whim stuff

[limpid stream]

I just started this run

Wonder if I can get lvl 23 Heaven Strike again /hj

[jolly hound]

See what’s on offer in ephyra before you quit

[limpid stream]

I’m not quitting either way

Also hey mirrored thrasher

[limpid stream]

Max bonded with two characters this run wow

[crude dragon]

<@&456908176877551658> Kill this bot

[flat glacier]

[crude dragon]

Thank you

[elfin heron]

Does anyone have any good run builds?

[proper seal]

you can look at #h2-victory-boasting for different builds

[elfin heron]

Thx

[proper seal]

np

[crimson gulch]

wheres the hades 2 bug report?

[crude dragon]

[crimson gulch]

thank you

[placid folio]

First time trying aspect of shiva...spamming specials feels like playing demoman tf2 lol

[limpid stream]

Is the black coat (mel aspect) magick hungry

[wide wigeon]

how does daze work dude

like is it rng when the hits miss or can i control it by positioning myself

[bitter stirrup]

It's just as it says, 20% chance for them to miss

[wide wigeon]

🥀

[proper seal]

not really honestly

[wide wigeon]

wish it was 100%

or wish we could pom it to increase

I mean that one duo boons that increases chances also excludes dodge and daze right

[bitter stirrup]

Why would you want to be invincible with 1 boon

[wide wigeon]

lmao nah you right you right

[limpid stream]

Holy crap I’m so fast with the coat on

[bitter stirrup]

Though you can get to 100+% dodge by stacking a whole lot of boons

Gale, Blinding Rush, Hot Pot, Wispy Wiles, Hasty Retreat, Word of Smaller Stature

[wide wigeon]

ight wish me luck gramps is next hope i dont die

ion even believe in luck GAH

[wide wigeon]

gale gives dodge?

[bitter stirrup]

Fully upgraded Gale (the familiar) is 6% dodge and move speed

[wide wigeon]

a whopping 0 times gramps missed

amazing js beautiful

id have won if he missed at least 1 time

[limpid stream]

RIP you’ll get ‘im next time

Have you cleared him before

[wide wigeon]

yeah this is fresh file attempts

[copper bison]

is Charybdis really as bs as I think she is or am I just bad

like, base Charybdis for the record not Rivals Sirens

I'm specifically talking about the half health attack where the entire screen becomes a Touhou game

[broken creek]

oh that move you just need to learn how to properly dodge it

tldr you go from one far end of the arena, dont go too fast, and you have time to get to the other side of the arena, and none of the projectiles will catch you(90% will explode on their own and the last 10% you can dash through 100% safely at the end)

[bitter stirrup]

Beware of the Shadow Anchors if you haven't already cleared them out

Easy to forget they're there cause they can blend in

[tiny swallow]

A bit ago I complained about Heracles not showing up and since then he has shown up literally every surface run I have done, maybe I should complain about Dionysus next since he's my last keepsake lmao

[elfin heron]

yeah that attack also stumped be for a bit, basically just run to one of the corners then slowly walk left to right (or vice versa) as the projectiles follow you

[elfin heron]

woah, you got all the others before Dio? for the me the last one was Zag, he spawns like once every 5 runs lmao, ||and always in the damn Oceanus||

[tiny swallow]

I think Dionysus has shown up a grand total of 2 times for me, so yeah I've just been unlucky

Anyway, it's fun messing around and accidentally doing stuff you're not supposed to, I'm trying to recruit Hecuba as a familiar, and decided that the Luckier Tooth wasn't necessary for the underworld run, so I equipped the Crystal Figurine, then proceeded to get Judgment after beating Hecate, I now have every arcana active at once lmao

Made the Arcana of the Ages prophecy easy at least

[wide wigeon]

lmao that's amazing

[sterile sequoia]

that happened to me twice while i was trying to level up the figurine, arcana of the ages was literally free

shoutout circe fr

[elfin heron]

huh, gonna try this, I'm doing all those "hidden aspect vs Chronos" prophecies anyway

[crude dragon]

You see, the fun part about Dio is that the complaints never stop with him

[sterile prism]

Fellas, I figured out how to swap weapons mid run

[still mantle]

HOLY [redacted] RIVALS 4 GRAMPS IS STRONG

Man every time I pull out jpom, medea, and say its time to lock in, first chamber gives me selene 😭

And jpom gives me old grudge

[bitter stirrup]

Thank the Fates for Acceptance of Another Fate lol

[still mantle]

What

What is that

Where can I get it

[bitter stirrup]

Oh maybe you don't have it yet, I think it's post-epilogue where you can reset the seed at the Oath

[still mantle]

Where can I get it

[bitter stirrup]

iIrc it's an incantation that unlocks after you finish the Fates epilogue

[still mantle]

Aw man

Im like halfway through that

[elfin heron]

yeah I think it's unlocked immediately after you find the fates

basically you salute the fear board and it resets the seed, that's all it does

you can do this as many times as you want, undo the night, salute the board, rinse and repeat

[still mantle]

Do i need to max out my bond with moros for the prophecy?

[bitter stirrup]

I can't remember what the requirements are, some of them are just random dialogue luck

[elfin heron]

not sure, but some characters don't neex max, e.g. "the one who labors for gods", I thought this would be a massive grind due to him being a rare spawn, but nope, you just need like 5 ranks or something

maybe even 4

[still mantle]

I still need to do moros, hecate, and heracles

[elfin heron]

Hecate needs max, not sure about Moros, but why not, he's super easy to max out

the way you (actually) find the fates is such a meme though, it's like something from a 90's adventure game, do these exact steps for seemingly no reason, and then something happens

I've read somewhere that you're actually always able to access them via those secret steps, it's just ||if you do it early you'll only hear them giggle and they won't respond||

[broken creek]

moros you have to ||get to his romance bit(you dont have to say yes but you do have to max him)||

iirc moros and hecate are ||the only 2 that need a max||

[craggy totem]

Tag your ending/epilogue spoilers

[elfin heron]

you don't need to get to the yes/no part with Moros, simply maxing out his relationship is fine
I know this because I've only slept with Eris so far, these scenes are giga rare it seems

[still mantle]

I know

[elfin heron]

oh, you already spoiled that part? shame

[still mantle]

Yeah, I haven't actually seen the ending cutscene but I know that you gotta do some weird shi like ||activate moros's keepsake thrice||

[elfin heron]

spoiler tag that

[still mantle]

NOOO

I GOT STUNLOCKED BY ||HERACLES|| AND HIT TWICE BY THE FLAME WAVES

[elfin heron]

and that's why I take defensive posture

[still mantle]

I took ddash😭

[tiny swallow]

I don't know who shows up less for me, Dionysus or Icarus, which sucks because I'm pretty close to finishing Icarus's story

[jolly hound]

You slightly improve your odds by staying outside on Olympus

[broken creek]

but in doing that you lower dio chances

[tiny swallow]

You know what probably helps getting the familiars? The treats that let you recruit the familiars, so maybe next run I can get Hecuba lmao

[broken creek]

generally icarus should spawn in thessaly and if he doesnt i tend to just accept he isnt showing up period since getting dio in olympus is super nice

and icarus dumping the population of a small country onto olympus would piss me off

[jolly hound]

you’ll know if the next inside room is dio or not tho

ngl one of the few downsides to hordes 3 is I dread Icarus

the only downside tho

[broken creek]

yeah but id rather give myself 2 doors with those chances instead of 1 and then hoping to god i get 3 billion watchers dropped on me by a twink

the olympus fountain is also tied to doors

[jolly hound]

important to watch your twinks

[elfin heron]

what about Artemis and Athena? don't their encounters start the same

esp Athena, enemies start spawning rapidly and almost overwhelm you, then she 9999's them a moment later

[broken creek]

they do a similar thing yeah but icarus hurts more because hes generally in thessaly where you have a whole 2 inches of space to deal with a gazillion enemies

i think theres also some funny code stuff that makes him easily the worst in terms of enemy density i could be wrong though

[elfin heron]

btw, how long will Odysseus be gone after unfinished business? thought he was kidding because nothing happens in this game, but he actually left for real

[elfin heron]

it's the worst biome, I especially hate the spilled oil, it's so easy to set on fire and then you have even less space

[north heron]

what are the requirements for all the chthonic chids?

[tranquil wren]

you have to forge a bond with the character

the chids are all based on people in the Unseen tab of the Book of Shadows

[tiny swallow]

Surface run complete, still no Dionysus, and every other ally was kind enough to not spawn either, but I did get another familiar and finally unlocked upgrading them so Raki now has a +50% so I can hopefully get Aspect of Nyx faster, so I have that going for me

Even if I did get Dionysus I'd have to do more surface runs anyway to clown Eris some more for her relationship (and because Heracles is important to a prophecy)

[elfin heron]

you guys are crazy, I see Dio like every 2nd run, same with Athena, I always get one of the two at least

[north heron]

im only missing bonds for selene and medea from that tab but it looks like i have 3 missing chids, does nyx count? or who else is there?

[tiny swallow]

Athena has been kind enough to show up semi-often, but Dionysus has shown up a grand total of twice for me, I'm consistent with all the underworld allies though

[tranquil wren]

icarus probably

he's usually the last

[broken creek]

are you taking the door paths more often?? his room is tied exclusively to door transitions

if you prioritize door paths then he'll start showing up wayyyy more consistently

[jolly hound]

Artemis won’t show on Olympus or Thessaly so nbd. Athena kinda annoys me cause she steals the win ngl

[tranquil wren]

I don't fully recall if Nyx has a Chid as well, but I don't think so

[elfin heron]

same goes for the familiars, I unlocked them all like 35 nights in, I just played a bunch of Chaos trials then baked the cookies
unlocking familiar skins will take you a while if you're this much behind the schedule

[tiny swallow]

Sometimes, I've just sorta been experimenting and seeing what happens, usually disappointment

[elfin heron]

anyways, I just finished upgrading all arcana, and I was thinking, what is even the point of Judgment? just for that vow that reduces your grasp? why else would you take it?

[broken creek]

yeah thats abt it, its only real use is 65f because void3 lets you use judgment

[north heron]

i have icuras skully odysseus charon artemis dora nemesis hecate and moros

[elfin heron]

pretty lame since it's the hardest to upgrade card

[broken creek]

you can do some really funny piggy bank + judgement runs just for funsies but in terms of power its gonna be stinky compared to a regular build

since like why would you wanna have to wait 3 regions just for a chance of what youd start with just to also get another handful of arcana that wont help anyway

but for void3 stuff its key which is a niche thats nice to see at least so its not 100% useless

[craggy totem]

Some people do it for the meme

[elfin heron]

I've been doing piggy bank runs in case Judgement procs for the all arcana cheevo, but nothing yet sadly

[broken creek]

piggy bank cant hit judgment lmao

like its hard coded not to be able to iirc

[elfin heron]

it can, someone posted it today

[craggy totem]

Didn't someone just post that they got it from piggy bank?

[jolly hound]

I had Circe turn judgment on once and had a dominant win on 32 fear but even then I’m gonna take girth or anti scars or dodge or 8% crit raki over it

[craggy totem]

Sniped 😆 Yeah okay I wasn't hallucinating then

[broken creek]

couldve sworn >-> otherwise 67f would be reset hell even more than it already is

[craggy totem]

WDYM? Are there people taking figurine on 67?

[broken creek]

no of course not because why in gods name would you

i just couldve sworn its hard coded to not hit judgment otherwise you would see some runners using it at least a little

[craggy totem]

Ahh

Probably nobody wants to play Reset Hell: Even Worser Resetting ig 😆

[broken creek]

maybe im just dumb and misremembering ig

[elfin heron]

idk how people speedrun games like this, someone gets lucky and grabs shocking loss + success rate, now their run is WAY WAY easier than yours and they can gloat about it

[broken creek]

yk whats crazy is that shocking loss isnt even a thing you care for in speedruns

literally just take medea, zeus special, hera attack, and get p.array and the entire game melts

[craggy totem]

I mean it's really nice to have on things that are not Medea :P

[craggy totem]

I think most of the people who repeatedly attempt going fast come to realize that running a roguelite is a high RNG thing

[broken creek]

also youd be surprised at how consistent this game can be if you dont do fw

[elfin heron]

this combo is also RNG, even just p.array, unless you reset until it's in the first room

[broken creek]

its not just dont do fw and you get the setup like 99% of the time

[craggy totem]

There's def people who just play the game real gud, but even they can get screwed over by bad RNG and vice versa

[elfin heron]

there's no keepsake to spawn hammers

[broken creek]

youre basically guaranteed one r1

like i cant remember a single run where i didnt get a hammer out of r1

[elfin heron]

yeah but it may be some trash not p.array, you'll get wide grin instead lmao

[craggy totem]

Well, if you're running with certain vows, it's harder, but without those vows, yeah, you'd have to go out of your way to avoid hammers, I think

[broken creek]

now if you wanna talk about like actually run defining rng like npcs, chaos, shops, and general fig scams sure

but like build scams arent really an issue

[elfin heron]

or 4 rooms worth of ashes LOL this can actually happen

[craggy totem]

Artificer:

[broken creek]

iirc every weapon has a sub6

or like sub5, medea has a sub4

[craggy totem]

But yeah, I agree map RNG makes such a huge difference

[broken creek]

unless you wanna really squeeze out time and play fw in a speedrun, build rng isnt much of an issue, just more of a question of do you get it online by chamber 4 or 6

[craggy totem]

Like, Erebus is mostly dinky anyway, so it makes a bigger impact if you get two Chaoses and your Arachne and midshop are offered at separate depths and Artemis shows up vs. if you get a sickass build

[broken creek]

yeah its free rooms thatll screw you over more than anything

[elfin heron]

so yeah, I get it when people run games like Silksong, you can see yourself improve with each run, but here you got p. array + born gain and you just won, and then you won't get them for the next 5 runs

[craggy totem]

No, I think you can still see the difference, at least if you try enough times

[broken creek]

decision making is like half the game

and the other half is execution which you can see that top speedrunners have some insane execution for some of the rooms

just depends on staying consistent for when the room rng hits

[craggy totem]

Like, currently for me, if I play out a run, I can see that my "normal" time is around 7 to 7:30, whereas the "normal" time for the speedrunners is sub-6 or faster, and when I was playing the game prior to the break I took, my "normal" time was 8min+

You can feel an average even if you are running FW

[broken creek]

mhm like my 62f average on circe was sitting around 15-17 minutes but others are consistently around 13-15

[elfin heron]

with weapons like Medea, I feel like you can just run FW and be fine, it's good with most boons

[craggy totem]

Well, the thing is that with Medea, a specific build is so busted on it, that's why speedrunners take rerolls

[elfin heron]

you don't need the hera/zeus combo or whatever

[broken creek]

sure yeah but do you wanna have to reset constantly because you didnt hit zeus, hera, and p.array or do you wanna play with rerolls and actually play the game for more than 2 minutes at a time

i think the current wr uses rerolls

[elfin heron]

just take Apollo or Aphro attack, and it's already almost as strong

[craggy totem]

It does, but the second-place on the global anyfear board is jpom

I think your point about consistency/not resetting is the bigger experiential diff

But peak jpom is fast, just less predictable

[broken creek]

peak jpom vs peak rerolls yeah jpom is gonna win just its easier to get peak rerolls

[elfin heron]

the thing is, the game is not made with trying to chase some build meta, and speedrunners trying to force a meta just turn it into a reset hell like you said

[craggy totem]

I mean, it wasn't made to be a speed game, although they did kindly include the qol features like the salute

But speedrunning has never been about "play the game as intended" :P

[elfin heron]

I remember wasting like 20 min trying to force a perfect Moros build lmao, it felt dumb as hell

[craggy totem]

Aint you seen all the memes about speedruns that rely on straight up glitches

[broken creek]

i think the idea of "chasing a meta" isnt necessarily a design thing to try to uphold, no matter the game there will always be a mathmatecially and executionally best strategey, and sure a rogue game is designed around you having tons of options but regardless something will always be best

like look at any competetive game, the existence of a meta isnt fundamentally an issue because no matter the state theres always a best option

[elfin heron]

it seems like the community is moving away from glitch abuse, because well it's not entertaining, you just skip content, so more recent games are all about skill, like Silksong, the most popular categories are all no major glitches

[broken creek]

the second something is chased in an optimal and competitive way like speedrunning or fear climbing there will always be a best option and thats not to a consequence of the game but rather what the player is chasing

[broken creek]

yeah a lot of games nmg or restricted tend to be most popular so you actually get to play the damned game lmao

didnt hk all glitches have like a 3 minute run but it was fr just looking at menus the whole time like who would want to do that

[craggy totem]

IDK, glitches can take skill to pull off

[elfin heron]

but the speedruns for older games like Castlevania or Zelda still focus on clipping through walls and what not, those are older fandoms

[craggy totem]

I was just talking to some folks the other day about a Necrodancer glitch that apparently got patched in its latest DLC version

They linked a video of it and it was hilarious

[broken creek]

sure im not saying they dont, just that like from a viewer and as someone whos ran games before id much rather have like cool out of bounds stuff that doesnt invalidate everthing and make it a walking sim

[elfin heron]

don't you see the contradiction here? it's like trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole, the game is not designed for there to be a meta

[craggy totem]

Though I guess that is more about entertainment value than skill lol

[old veldt]

yeah glitch wr runs are stupid

like elegy in 3 mins n stuff

[elfin heron]

funnily enough, Team Cherry patched out the inventory shenanigans a few weeks ago lol, HK got a new patch

[broken creek]

and yk what thank god downpatching exists

[old veldt]

wdym not designed for a meta? no matter what happens there will end up being a meta because some things are bound to be better than others

[elfin heron]

there was a glitch where you open inventory while moving and this would give you a lot of momentum, but as of the last patch the game actually pauses when you're in inventory

[craggy totem]

And like, nobody is making you play optimal builds or watch runs with optimal builds

[broken creek]

sure but in a game like this when your choices are some of the strongest single target damage(zeus) with the best daamge spread(hera) as much as you want to chase a "there is no meta" there always will be

[warm pelican]

Chat am I doing something wrong because I have not seen any psyche rewards from completing rooms in like 10 runs I’ve only been able to get it from the bone shop

[craggy totem]

Rooms don't give you psyche

[broken creek]

yeah why patch out menu dropping i dont get why they did that😭

[elfin heron]

because it's a rogue like and it's random power ups each time

[craggy totem]

You get psyche from the lost souls that you guide

[warm pelican]

Ohhhh okay sorry it’s been a couple months since I last played

[craggy totem]

NW, figures!

[broken creek]

and theres specific weapon metas as well, zeus hera is strong on like 99% of things but its kinda dookie on hel, so the hel meta becomes posiedon attack zeus/hera special

[old veldt]

just because its random doesnt mean there shouldnt be better options than others

or even if it should, that it could happen

[broken creek]

and no game ever is totally balanced to make metas not exist

because if it was itd be boring asf imo cuz when everything is equal feeling powerful doesnt get to exist

like at a fundamental level blitz and hitch are stronger than wounds and scorch

[elfin heron]

I think Monster Hunter speedrunning makes more sense, it's also very short runs (it's a mission based game, you just pick your mission and depart), but you're in full control of your build, no need to reset for 20 min until you get the meta stuff

[broken creek]

yeah but then you reset so the monster does the same 1 move 10 times in a row otherwise you reset

[elfin heron]

lmao, people will optimize the fun out of anything I guess

[broken creek]

sure theres some scripting but even mh times have rng involved and resets

[craggy totem]

You also don't need to reset for 20 minutes running H2?

Didn't we literally just discuss using reroll dice

[broken creek]

when your goal is the quickest time physically possible then yeah, and also optimizing and fun arent mutually exclusive imo

[old veldt]

who knows it could be fun for them, fun is subjective after all

[elfin heron]

yeah but you give up 3 levels on each boon, can you even get a WR like this

[old veldt]

the wr rn is with rerolls

pretty sure

[broken creek]

yeah wr is rerolls and it couldve been faster

like the player themselves says it couldve been faster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpGZA4UtbNU

shoutout foolish btw

[elfin heron]

why 8 fear specifically?

[old veldt]

frenzy cause its faster, shadow helps for one miniboss in erebus

[broken creek]

^^

[old veldt]

the smoky guy i think

[broken creek]

yeah in the case of shadow spiller it saves you from having to kill all the trees

and for everything else it doesnt matter since you only have to kill the main boss

[elfin heron]

the trees aren't optional normally?

thought you could just enter the smoke and kill it, though I get rid of the trees first normally

[broken creek]

nope, gotta kill the shadow spiller and all the trees it takes forever

shadow its just the spiller and the wailers are just there for vibes

[elfin heron]

how does he have both fig leaf and white antler?

[broken creek]

cuz fig can trigger 3 times(once a region) over the course of the entire run so you take it off r3

zeus keepsake r1 so hes guaranteed, fig r2 so its active the rest of the run, gorgon r3 cuz what else are you gonna take, and antler r4 cuz its antler

[elfin heron]

is it like the FW keepsakes

[broken creek]

yeah it stays even when you take it off

[pale pier]

Just started replaying hades 2 again after switching to hades 1 for a while and my first reaction is "Meli is so fast what the helly."

[broken creek]

its a pretty useful take r2 for surface high fear too since timer can easily be a super big issue there

[pale pier]

I had forgotten how fast Mel is compared to zag

[elfin heron]

she can't dash 6 times in a row though

[craggy totem]

Blinding Rush tho

MFW every Bridal Glow hits Blinding Rush instead of damage boons

#rigged

[elfin heron]

but anyway, I also played a bit of H1 a couple days back, it's kinda crazy how many traps there are in the first game, it's so annoying

they REALLY cut down on this crap in 2

H1 has floor traps, statues shooting stuff, just random magma balls bombing random spots non-stop etc

[old veldt]

yeah

only oceanus and tartarus have traps

and miasma ig

but every reagion in h1 does if u include the lava balls

[craggy totem]

Don't forget the thorns in addition to the miasma

[elfin heron]

Oceanus' sprinklers deal no damage though, and the exploding thingies take a while to explode, so you can move away

[old veldt]

so then also lava in asphodel

[craggy totem]

Then on the surface, you have the fire barrels in Ephyra, the oil spills in Thessaly, and the stabby fangs and splodey eggs on the Summit

[elfin heron]

Tartarus has the spike tiles from the first game, but I feel like there aren't as many, some rooms don't even have them, and well it's region 4 this time, not 1 lmao

[old veldt]

not many h1 traps do a lot either

[craggy totem]

Tart also has the timebubble traps in addition to the spikes

[old veldt]

oh i lwk forgot surface existed

[old veldt]

and the cogs

[craggy totem]

Real deathtrap

[elfin heron]

oh yeah, and once an encounter is over it's impossible to damage yourself in 2, while in 1 all the things are still live, step into lava and you will take damage just the same

[old veldt]

you can damage yourself on thorns in fields

[elfin heron]

is that the only exception once an encounter is over? just 1 damage though

[old veldt]

probably

[elfin heron]

I know the eggs and such stop exploding once you beat a room

[old veldt]

maybe on surface theres smth idk i dont do surface much

[elfin heron]

basically, 1 is kinda mean, no wonder there's a Steam thread complaining 2 is too easy lol

[old veldt]

i meannnn the traps themselves dont really deal a lot of dmg unless you let them

the ones that do more then 10 are pretty easy to avoid

imo h2 is easier simply cause mel is stronger

[elfin heron]

there are statues constantly shooting spears in Elysium, and they hit pretty hard

[old veldt]

yeah but theyre quite slow

the pots do a lot, but theyre normally easy to break or avoid

[craggy totem]

This has not been my experience 🤔

You can also bust up the steam tanks in Oceanus post-encounter

It's only the Tartarus traps that auto-disable afaict

And on the Surface, Thessaly

[elfin heron]

the eggs on the summit don't explode once an encounter is over, you can literally walk up and smack them, nothing happens

as for Thessaly, the burning oil will be put out, but you can set it on fire again and take damage, happaned to me with Hestia's rush

[pale pier]

Having not played hades 2 in like 2 months, I'm surprised at how well I'm doing combat wise. Dude, it's so easy to switch between the two lmao

[elfin heron]

so with the fangs vow, some enemies have pink circles around them, what does this perk do

[craggy totem]

I will swear up and down that I have seen them explode -- though admittedly I didn't stick around to see if I'd take damage

[old veldt]

it might be drainer, which takes away 3 mana each second but idk

[jolly hound]

drinks your mana

[elfin heron]

ah, so pretty safe to be around

[old veldt]

does high fear take side rooms tart

does it depend or is it never

like 62+

[craggy totem]

They take the Hades room, and I suppose they could take the fountain room if it showed up, but I don't think I've ever seen people deliberately take the minibosses

[old veldt]

how do yk its a fountain room

[craggy totem]

It's a boon but it hasn't got the "miniboss" symbol

[old veldt]

oh i didnt know that okay

[craggy totem]

I guess it's kinda like how you can tell if you've got a fountain room coming up next in Thessaly

🤔 hm

[old veldt]

um... how do you tell that

same thing?

[craggy totem]

Half same

Normal boats have the arrow symbol, right? Or you have Circe or miniboss.

[old veldt]

ok

[craggy totem]

So if it's got a reward on it and it's not marked as a miniboss, then it's gotta be a fountain room

[old veldt]

well you learn smth new every day lmao

[vocal lance]

hey guys, does anyone know what's the last 2 characters in ||3 fates prophecy||? i don't have any idea

[old veldt]

hercules and prom iirc

[vocal lance]

oh, thx

[frail olive]

Hi guys I have a question for u all (if the answer is obviously please don't laugh at me lol but the Athena keepsake only works for surface runs right?

[craggy totem]

Nop

[old veldt]

it works for both as long as the requirements are met

[crude dragon]

Incorrect

[frail olive]

Oh that's helpful I feel dumb as hell now 🤣

[slim pike]

Yeah, they really pulled that back

in erebus the traps hurt them

[torn wind]

Yeah H2 traded map awareness of traps for enemy count and density

Oceanus still has a good number of traps though, feels a lot more like an H1 area

[neat frigate]

To transfer save data from steam to switch do you just need to enter your steam account info or is there more to it? Planning on getting the switch version soon just wondering what the process is

[old veldt]

how do you get greater favour of gaia?

[crude dragon]

The only requirements I know off the top of my head are having every pet at max level and every fish caught

I think there's also something about having having dug 50 seeds, mined at 50 mining deposits, fished at 50 fishing spots, pacified 50 lost shades, and gathered 50 outcroppings?

[craggy totem]

By hand, right?

[torn wind]

I’d imagine so since you probably need to get greater gift of Gaia before you can get greatest gift of Gaia

[craggy totem]

I mean as opposed to letting your familiar do it

I have a vague memory of someone getting annoyed because they'd been having Toula do all the fishing

[torn wind]

Ah yeah since doesn’t getting rare fish require you to do it and get the timing

[craggy totem]

I thought H2 removed the rare fish mechanic entirely 🤔

[torn wind]

🤷‍♂️ I just know you can get fish worth more on occasion

[craggy totem]

I don't remember going to any particular trouble over it, and I got all the fish

[old veldt]

how do you check which fish you dont have?

[craggy totem]

Inventory?

[old veldt]

it shows which you dont have?

or do you mean also look up a list

[craggy totem]

I remember it showing silhouettes for at least some of the ingredients you didn't have yet, but it's been a while since I 100%ed so I admit I don't know if this is true of the fish

[sturdy magnet]

I’m kinda disappointed that Ares Hex can be used when you’re equipped, Xinth aspect of Selene

[craggy totem]

...why?

[torn wind]

Idk what this statement means lol

[red fox]

Maybe missing "only"

[torn wind]

Maybe

[craggy totem]

That would make more sense. But I mean, all of the hexes have one specific god for the godsent.

[torn wind]

Though it would be insanely broken depending on the weapon if it could be used on other stuff

Imagine Nergal with a 50% omega damage buff and all that extra damage from skyfall

Or Charon

It would probably be a top 3 or top 4 hex if it wasn’t aspect-locked

[sturdy magnet]

You can’t use his Hex with the other weapons of the Nocturnal Arms

[craggy totem]

It's the aspect's entire gimmick

You might as well complain that you can't enter Berserk mode on Mel coat

Or that you can't explode your casts with the staff ospecial

(Berserk mode on Mel coat would be sick though)

[red fox]

Now i wished i can enter berserk mode in mel coat

[craggy totem]

Lmao jinx

[torn wind]

Selene coat does make me wish though that we got a different aspect for coat and were able to use a skyfall on other aspects

Since it’s like the worst aspect for it since you have to take boons that increase magick cost just so you can make decent use of the hex

[dull pike]

i like the chaos trials a lot it makes me use keepsakes and boons i'd never touch otherwise bc im trying to survive lmao, but there's less pressure bc its only one area. it's such a good mechanic

[crude dragon]

Nah, it's just a dice roll now

[crude dragon]

Well, every area in the game has 3 fish, including Chaos

So you can do some process of elimination by comparing the ones you do and don't have

[red fox]

Or bring toula every run and pray

[limpid stream]

Only one weapon left for the prophecy, the skull

[tiny swallow]

I fully am not getting that prophecy with Typhon, because I just suck with anything besides the blades and axe lmao

[warm terrace]

Haha so funny, if you pause the game while fighting Chronos he whines hes the only one supposed to control time ❤️

[limpid stream]

Is there a way to increase my odds of getting a Zag fight?

[red fox]

Pray harder

It only appear in certain region

Only appear in midshop

[cursive kayak]

i also like the random chaos runs for similar reasons

[proper seal]

unfortunately no

[limpid stream]

What regions

He only visits me when my build sucks I swear lmao

[crude dragon]

Any region with a midshop, so Erebus, Oceanus, Thessaly, and Olympus

[jolly hound]

I’ve just inserted my 9th set of new batteries into my switch controller, all from hades; my GameCube wavebird controller lasted five years on one set of batteries

thanks bezos

[merry whale]

jillian jumpscare yoo

what's good

[cursive kayak]

AYYY it’s been a hot minute!!

[merry whale]

fr

[cursive kayak]

hope you’ve been doing well

[merry whale]

same to u

anything u've been up to

[cursive kayak]

not particularly, just writing and gaming. you? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[merry whale]

real, been dabbling in a bit more writing and getting thru stuff but otherwise also continuing the high fear sweat

[cursive kayak]

hell yeah

[merry whale]

yee, got my first 67f a week or two ago and am now kinda just rotating aspects trying not to suck

[quick crescent]

dude i havnt had the erebus fountain room spawn in forever, done like 20 runs and havnt gotten it, i just want the danm bird

[craggy totem]

You could probably maximize your chances by picking only normal reward doors wherever you are offered a choice (aka not minibosses, family disputes, Arachne, etc)

[still mantle]

If you do it with rivals 4 on he unpauses it

[torn wind]

Yeah fountains do feel pretty rare but like in Olympus at least they’re specifically restricted to walking through doors instead of taking the launch pad

As said though you can only get fountains for normal encounters

[quick crescent]

oh i didnt know that thank you

[torn wind]

Yeah you can’t get fountains if you take the launch pad

Since it’s an indoor area

[still mantle]

I only ever get fountains in Olympus

[torn wind]

You can get outdoor or indoor areas from taking the door but it’s impossible to get indoor areas when taking the launch pad

[still mantle]

And I have gotten the tartarus fountain exactly once

[torn wind]

I mean I get them often enough 🤷‍♂️ but like it’s never something I expect to get in a run

I maybe see one every 3-5 runs

[quick crescent]

without any spoilers, how may i start my finding of the three fates?

and also what is the item i need to give to nemesis so i can get her into the bath?

[torn wind]

Bath salts require you to first unlock the baths from an incantation

[quick crescent]

i have the bath

[torn wind]

And finding the 3 fates requires you to beat the game first

[quick crescent]

and by beating that requires the time dissolution incantation?

[torn wind]

You just check her codex entry to see if she wants bath salts then give it to her

You can buy them from the broker

[quick crescent]

no im locked out of giving her stuff, it says she needs something but i dont know what it i

oh nvm now i can give her stuff

[torn wind]

You'll occasionally be locked out of gifting if either the character has a special interaction with another character or if the character and you have an argument of some form

So it's usually best to gift first if given the option

[quick crescent]

yeah must have been an interacton then

[torn wind]

Since some conversations with characters like Eris will lock you out of gifting

[quick crescent]

yeah i always forget to gift the gods before talking to them

[torn wind]

Yeah well that too but meaning for characters at the crossroads

Or icarus when you meet him in thessaly

Since he's likely to fly off after talking to him

[frank karma]

Wait is wide grin actually good? I always thought it was a trap but I've been hearing people say that's its good.

[bitter stirrup]

It's good enough on Mel and Persephone, it's just that it doesn't actually get the Mel Skull power bonus

[frank karma]

Oh shoot it bricks Mel aspect?

I figured it'd be the opposite

Wide grin + P array is busted for sure. I know for a fact that the P array isn't affected by wide grin

I just wonder if wide grin is really that useful besides that really strong combo

[bitter stirrup]

You lose the aspect bonus which would ideally give you 232 base power over 4 shots and instead give you basically 160 power in 1 shot, just depends on how you play it probably

I don't have much experience playing skulls so I can't say for sure but I know Boated cleared max fear with Wide Grin Mel Skull twice, and once without PArray

Forces you to play much closer range to get all 4 shells to hit

[jolly hound]

My PB on skull fear wise was wide grin and p array (started wide grin, p array in olympus followed by a mad dash to get mana to run it), I beat the eye of Typhon in 2 seconds

And my first win ever was wide grin skulls figuring I had plenty of wins with adamant rail cluster bombs back in og hades and this is the same principle, and won my first try v chronos

It will screw up the rhythm on Medea and also reduce total power on Mel skulls but 45 fear blowout win over Typhon, imma give it some love

It def turns it into a melee weapon for best results but so what I do melee weapons a lot

And if you get looming ignition too it’s very very satisfying to watch

[jolly hound]

That video was why I took wide grin going for 45 lol

[full gulch]

how does wide grin work

[red fox]

You fire all shell like shotgun

[astral bough]

i jus beat underwolrd in 7 minutes with thanatos

do i have to have a video to upload to speedrun.com

[proper seal]

Well that depends, I think speedrun.com has specific category for Thanatos

[main copper]

Any chance of another small balance patch?

I feel like theres a lot more mid boons in Hades 2(Only 40 runs in so I might be wrong)

In Hades 1 there were a buncha mid Hammers but I think Boons were mostly fairly balanced ngl(240 runs)

[crude dragon]

Maybe with the console release, but I wouldn't hold your breath

[elfin heron]

like what? most people agree that Demeter and Ares are underwhelming, the rest are okay more or less

if there is a patch, I'd rather they rework the coat's omega attack to work exactly like the shield in the first game, because otherwise it's worthless and no one uses it

[cursive nacelle]

id disagree on demeter she's really good, the freeze is way underrated. I guess she falls off in the fear 50+ because of her lower dmg but thats not where 98% of players are anyway

[elfin heron]

freeze doesn't work on bosses, and Demeter's damage boost is the lowest out of all gods, so

[cursive nacelle]

it does work on bosses just a bit less

without frenzy on it widens your attack opportunity for a full second per application

[elfin heron]

I think gust (slow) works on bosses while freeze doesn't, the visual effect is very similar

so frigid rush is very much worth taking

[bitter stirrup]

Freeze definitely slows bosses down too

Arctic Ring and Snow Queen from what I've seen are some of the most taken boons in high fear gameplay

[main copper]

I feel like unless you pom the fudge out of Hephaestus Boons they arent consistebt enough

But I am still early game

[elfin heron]

yeah, those are great, the opinions are split on the freeze strike/flourish

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah but you can have Hephaestus in your god pool just for the armor boons and that's good enough

[elfin heron]

Heph's keepsake for guaranteed rare/epic, then use Poseidon's keepsake in region 2 for Seismic Servo to cut down the cooldown

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah Demeter attack and special is probably just for utility on weapons like Circe and Supay, special is good enough for Mel Staff but not ideal

[elfin heron]

it's kind of great on the torches actually, charge up the special and the whole room is frozen

this was how I dealt with the mountain/summit rooms in my early runs

but once you get better at the game, you don't really want freeze

[broken creek]

and whats crazy is she actually doesnt

freeze is the safest curse in the game and she gives access to snow queen(one of the best defensive boons in the game)

and plus she can still put out nice damage realistically the difference between all the % scaling gods is negligible what matters most is the curse attached

[elfin heron]

trusty shield is the same boon but better because you might actually tank 2 hits

[broken creek]

true! but heph also has like nothing else useful unless you high roll an epic

[elfin heron]

I like the one where he gives you hp based on your magic, if you pick this + Aphro's hp/magic boost, you can have a very fat hp bar

[broken creek]

demeter cast is just one of the safest things in the game ever, melting swipe with demeter attack makes the entire room kinda stop moving, shes a very strong god on her curse alone

also demeter dash is also one of the strongest defensive boons in the game

[elfin heron]

btw, how does trusty shield work with dresses/other sources of ammo, how does it know how much armor to regen

[broken creek]

iirc internally it tracks trusty first so like the first(assuming jpom) like 20 you lose will be regened

[elfin heron]

e.g. I have a 40 armor dress + trusty shield, so that's 70 armor, I take 20 dmg in the next room, then how much I will have in the room after that? still 70?

[broken creek]

yeah

[elfin heron]

okay, so as long as you don't take more than 30 dmg, you will regen to full

[broken creek]

yeah just dont lose more than what trusty counts as

[elfin heron]

it gets hard to track when you're also running the sash and armor maxxing lol