h2-discussion

[glacial light]

WHAT

[broken glen]

Any time I look at one of those skeleton diagrams at the doctor’s office I’m activated like a sleeper agent

[glacial light]

I haven't posted a link in half a hour

Dyno continues its prejudice against Australians

[broken creek]

Dyno got your ass

[glacial light]

First it times out lúithen now it's coming for me

[broken glen]

I’m gonna be on my deathbed and I’ll hear my grandchildren talking about transistor 2 being announced and I’ll leap out like the grandpa in Charlie and the chocolate factory

[glacial light]

:)

#h2-builds-and-combat message

The one true tierlist

[broken creek]

Tf would transistor 2 even be 🥀

[torpid sky]

"Integrated Circuit"

[broken creek]

I will die on the hill that transistor is their best game and its not close

[broken glen]

Oh yeah totally

I mean there’s elements that I love in each game to death but transistor affected me like nothing else

[broken creek]

Pyre is a close 2nd icl

If the gameplay was more than just wizard basketball 20 times over id of loved it so much more

[calm flicker]

How inefficient is it to perform Hel's Special? I had fun with it when I played such a style. I lost all 3 Death Defiances against Unrivaled Chronos, but it was the first time I fought him this save file.

[broken creek]

Depends

[broken glen]

Like summit in h2 tried to recreate the spine segment, but it just didn’t feel the same… I think it’s because in hades 2 you actually kill every monster you encounter, while in transistor, you run from the spine while it kills everything indiscriminately

[broken creek]

Anything below 62f its fine

Just it takes a lot more investment than just autofire and tap special

Since like when the decision is do I want 2 boons to be live(attack/special) or do I want 3 and even more mana, the faster option will always be the first one

[calm flicker]

I was told that, in a vacuum, regular attack & the odd regular special deal greater DPS, but special covers the whole map. It's a pretty damn good way of applying Blitz & Flourish.

[broken creek]

Yeah basically, by the time you charge the Ospec and it does its thing you couldve already cleared that much with tap special and autofire

Tap special still hits like everything in the room so either way its a good hitch/blitz applicator

[calm flicker]

Ugh.

Well, I'm not playing Hel anyway.

[red fox]

Putting hitch and using the ospec watch it nuke entire room is fun

[gusty tree]

They kinda overtuned VOR Cerberus IMO

[broken creek]

True, again anything below 62 Ospec is fine, and even at 62 building into it is reasonable

[red fox]

Sadly it cost 50 and forever to charge

[broken creek]

Insane take

[gusty tree]

I expect late game bosses to be hard don’t get me wrong

but how he is hard I have an issue with

[red fox]

Depends on which side cerb wake up on that night

[calm flicker]

Well, I almost never unequip Sorceress, so Hel's special doesn't have that long of a channel time to me.

[broken creek]

Elaborate if you can

Cuz imo hes one of the easiest rivals especially at high fear hes very manageable

[red fox]

Cerb is another stay on his back boss

[gusty tree]

the arena is too god damn small in phase 1

[red fox]

Just need watch out its back hand swipe

[gusty tree]

Phase 2 is fine

[broken creek]

Is there a particular move you struggle with

[gusty tree]

Phase 1 it feels very hard to avoid his attacks

[gusty tree]

His claws

[broken creek]

Like the slams or the swipe??

[gusty tree]

Both

[broken creek]

The slams are free just be behind him or dodge to the wave rather than the paw, and the swipes are a reaction test or just keep circling him so he doesnt select it

[gusty tree]

getting behind him is uh kinda an issue

[red fox]

It slam with one hand, then swipe with another

[broken creek]

You can dodge his first couple moves the exact same way, once you hit him a bit he'll do the counter, stand in the bite circle and dash to the safety in front of him that'll also take you through the slam wave

[gusty tree]

Need I remind you that Cerby takes up like 95% of the arena in phase 1

[broken creek]

After that sometimes he'll fire breathe(ez asf) or he'll double slam(again jjst be behind him you can dash through fine)

[red fox]

Small arena mean it can't do its bs dash away fire breath combo yet

[broken creek]

Ik @nova oar has a hitless clip she can share

[gusty tree]

But it also means getting behind him is harder and his attacks take up a bigger percentage of the arena

[broken creek]

He literally cant hit behind him unless he swipes back

Which is a set timing on the counter -> slam -> swipe ir just a reaction check

You have to be playing grossly far away for strafing him to be a problem

[nova oar]

For cerb?

[broken creek]

Yuh

Vor cerb is the convo rn

[nova oar]

https://imgur.com/a/vMd79UT

Here u go boss

[broken creek]

Ty twin

[thorn plover]

Guys does controlled burn proc with every momus omega?

[nova oar]

No

[thorn plover]

Ok thx

[vital hollow]

Is it a bad idea to take the Ares/Demeter Duo while using aspect of Charon?

[nova oar]

Do it

[red fox]

That ocast dmg should still apply

[vital hollow]

Yeah, but now I won't be able to dash out of danger and deal damage at the same time as easily since teh cast will move with my dash

[nova oar]

You don't channel the cast with charon

Iirc it works fine

[red fox]

It should only move with you when you channel it

[vital hollow]

OHHH, wait, this is huge

[short raft]

Is this true?

"WARNING: Narcissus has a limited amount of gifts for you, he will eventually stop giving you stuff."
-Wiki
https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Narcissus/Second-Hand_Gifts

I figures its wiki nonesense but well, worth asking

[slim pike]

it's still too long

base of 3 seconds is bananas

3 seconds of standing stock still in a manner that makes using the torch attack without dashing feel acrobatic

[vital hollow]

If you continue advancing his story along, he will eventually stop giving you gifts for like 5 visits or so, then it will go back to normal

[slim pike]

Having played hades 1 a bit more, I've noticed probably the biggest difference in boon design between the two games

Hades 1 tier-2 boons are ass

tier 2 being defined as boons that don't fill core slots but aren't duos or legendaries

[sudden eagle]

I find every VOR boss absurdly difficult with melee range weapon, it's probably a skill issue (it is), particularly when there are multiple bosses in the arena. But they are manageable with torches or staff.

[red fox]

What? You don't like those -10% dmg taken on tuesday afternoon boon?

[vital hollow]

I think I remember Artemis's secondary boons being pretty good

[red fox]

Well artemis does has pp and hunter mark

[slim pike]

0.25% more god gauge on crit. Woo

15% more crit damage boon, but heart rend adds 150%

[red fox]

Well this one is still pretty good

[slim pike]

40% more god gauge when taking damage. But then posideon also has the crazy good riptide

[slim pike]

But heart rend is way better

[red fox]

Remember its competition is not heart rend, it is 0.25% god gauge on crit

[slim pike]

Quite

Chaos was weaker but way more common it seems

And kinda needed as the real tier 2s since deadly strike goes nuts with a chaos strike boon on top

[red fox]

Chaos were generally more useful, as there is no gathering boost or magick buff when not using magick

[slim pike]

Eclipse

Also there were backstab, dash strike and first hit chaos boons

[red fox]

And penalties was less harsh as more weapon can do fine not using one of their kit temporarily

Dash strike is good tho

[slim pike]

They were one room shorter

[slim pike]

Got ditched as a concept in h2 becausr of skull and torch

[nova oar]

It's just a learning curve forsure

I think they're all fine

Adds a good challenge

[sudden eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/for-sure-macron-top-gun-gif-8849023885877138080

[glacial light]

Epic embed fail

[sudden eagle]

oh sorry I don't have the permission

[nova oar]

Ranged weapons are always gonna be safer

[buoyant matrix]

i wish we get embed perms in this channel again

[lapis helm]

<@&456908176877551658>

[sterile prism]

we dont have a fun melee weapon

[glacial light]

Aspect of ||the morrigan|| is fun

[sterile prism]

half as fun as it could be

[broken creek]

What do you consider melee

Cuz like coat, staff, axe, knives and medea are all what I'd consider melee

[slim pike]

Axe has a bigger range than some "ranged" weapons

[nova oar]

Only over half of all the aspects

[broken creek]

I mean all staves play the same minus anubis, all axes play the same after a certain fear minus nergal, all coats are mel coat, all knives are dash attack special/tk spammers

You could argue eos is melee sometimes

Moros when you run out of mana is melee lmao

[real scarab]

special slam mel flames melee too

[broken creek]

Yeahhh, mel and persephone skull you dont necessarily play far

[real scarab]

nyx boost most fun melee move

[slim pike]

Staff has a railgun mounted into it, but add in dual moonshot or just going hard on thrasher hammers and it's not exactly a long ranged weapon

The only meaningful "melee" distinction is kinda decided by the question "Would you use Flutter Strike or Flourish on this move?"

all weapons are long ranged weapons by this definition because who uses these boons?

[lapis helm]

Are moderators active at all?

[slim pike]

DM the modmail bot

don't ping them directly

[sterile prism]

Id agree, but they arent fun melee weapons. With the exception of nergal and morigan

I guess the coat with the dash attack is fun

but the rest arent great

[nova oar]

If that's your opinion then fine, but alot of people enjoy them

Objectively they're still good aspects

[sterile prism]

yea, Im only speaking about whether its interesting to me

[wide wigeon]

does eris show up in tartarus on the first night?

do i need to do the 30% hp thing with cerby too

[buoyant matrix]

yes

[wide wigeon]

😫

[buoyant matrix]

can appear after every region until night 3 (or 4?)
then fields and tart only till night 7, then only tart till night 10

[wide wigeon]

I loved her when I didnt know she does this

alright I reached gramps first night let's hope i dont die

[lapis helm]

It's abit annoying that i have to verify

[nova oar]

What do u need the mods for?

[wide wigeon]

I died 2nd phase sad

[lapis helm]

My friend acted like an idiot last night, Altho nothing that could get him banned(that's what he told me). Well I'm here to appeal for him

[nova oar]

You mean night?

[lapis helm]

Yeah.... Had no idea He's that famous🤣

[nova oar]

Gonna be real he fully deserved it

Was also a tad creepy in my dms

But wont discuss here

Anyway

[lapis helm]

Wait really?

[nova oar]

Dm me or smth idk

[lapis helm]

Wtf, FR?

[flat glacier]

Do you still have those DMs?

[lapis helm]

sure

[nova oar]

I don't unfortunatly, but he's blocked and banned so its not a big deal

[tranquil wren]

was that the medea hater guy

[nova oar]

Yur

[lapis helm]

I think I have my answer

[storm glen]

wtf happened dawg

[lapis helm]

Oh It's solved

[nova oar]

The medea is trash guy got banned, whip is his friend and wanted info

[rough lintel]

Is it cooked that my surface has my best time and heat

I swear im not insane when i say surface is easiee

[nova oar]

You need to run uw more then lmaoo

Typically sf is about 2 minutes slower, and high fear is harder

[rough lintel]

I got a 10m run 12 fear

Frenzy 2 with hyper buffed zeus

[nova oar]

Yeah you can get lower than that easy

[rough lintel]

Yessir

Got bad rng no static shock

Istg hades 2 is easier than 1 in high hwat coz the boons are just much stronger

Zeus is zeus 😂😂

[nova oar]

Nah, fear is just easier

[nova oar]

ma'am*

[rough lintel]

What happened ma am

He got banned coz he said medea is trash?

Oh wow ur 19?

Damn ur even younger than me (holy unemployment)

[nova oar]

@rough lintel

[rough lintel]

J o b

[nova oar]

Turning 20 in about a week

[slim pike]

You don't have approval process in hades 2

you can actually still steer your build even at max fear

[rough lintel]

BRO I HATE APPROVAL PROCESS

OH MY GOD WORSE THAN DENIAL

[slim pike]

Precisely

Denial is a much better implemented version of approval process

[rough lintel]

Worse than rival scylla

Also i think fate whim is better than the other side of mirror

[slim pike]

there's still Void though, and personally I dislike the fact that max scars exists because it actively bricks multiple gameplay features

[rough lintel]

Void is bad

[slim pike]

Void is unfun difficulty

[rough lintel]

They should let us at least bring judgement

[slim pike]

void 3 lets you do that, void 4 is just miserable

[nova oar]

I think if they altered the way the game works with scars 3 and changed void then I could do max fear

[slim pike]

Onion is also uuuugh compared to underworld customs

at least you get to enjoy that boon for that biome and get some cash

[nova oar]

I lowk prefer it

[rough lintel]

Btw @nova oar is the weather down there rn like mf hell

[slim pike]

It is funny that Sea Star can proc on it

[rough lintel]

Coz it was this morning

42 degree sun

[nova oar]

Uh yeah just about

[rough lintel]

Yea but u have chrolex

[slim pike]

that's fair, but still

[nova oar]

Still gotta keep working n training

[slim pike]

Slowing down erebus of all places is horrid

[nova oar]

Yeah outside of erebus 62 I prefer it

[rough lintel]

Forfeit was bad but not as bad as void

[nova oar]

Amen

[slim pike]

well yes, saccing a few boons or your entire arcana grid

particularly as the game is balanced around having arcana at all

like if you were to try to work out the equivalent boon quality of 30 grasp it would be nuts

particularly with hilariously powerful arcana like the Sorceress, Death and Origination

[rough lintel]

Death? Rage bait used to be believable

[slim pike]

I've asked the question before about what people think a fresh file run with no arcana is in terms of fear-equivalent and it's quite high

[lapis helm]

You really hate him alot, Was He that bad here?

[rough lintel]

I think what u trying to say is furries

[slim pike]

3 death defiances isn't exactly something you can just get from aphrodite now is it?

[rough lintel]

Furries, origination, huntress and strength

Are the goats imo

[slim pike]

sure, but you're missing my point

[rough lintel]

But at scars 3 death is better

[nova oar]

I find it easier than 40-50f

[rough lintel]

But yes, aracna is stronger than boons

[slim pike]

how many boons from which gods would you need to match 30 grasp worth of arcana? it's quite a few and they're high quality boons at that

[nova oar]

Only because no frenzy, no timer, with the strats, it kinda gets laughably easy

[rough lintel]

Frenzy is free

[nova oar]

Getting a sub 20 is tricky tho

[slim pike]

Fresh file

[rough lintel]

If anything frenzy makes game easier

[nova oar]

It is, but no frenzy fresh file is even freer

[rough lintel]

Coz iframe is reduced

[rough lintel]

Oooo

[slim pike]

Fresh file is also missing good healing fountains and has a need to keep hp low after each boss

and it's a bit of a slog because your damage output is kinda terrible

[rough lintel]

Just accept eris thing 😖

[nova oar]

I mean you can

It just gets up to well over pain 3 levels

[slim pike]

choose your poison

[rough lintel]

@nova oar u in uni?

[timid vigil]

you say this but when I was trying fresh file for fun I died on Chronos with a good build because he was soooo slow I miss timed my dashes and got hit a lot

[nova oar]

Was

[lapis helm]

ah

LOL, The pregnant emoji🤣

[rough lintel]

Selene moon keepsake doesnt break fate whim

Still worst aspect in ghe game

[slim pike]

Suffers from a buildup of three things

One, Hexes are kinda bad and splits your room reward needs
Two, it's built around a combo where you inflict shine on enemies and then do omegas to them, which is a slow concept right out of the gate.
Three, Coat omegas are just kinda bad

[rough lintel]

It works with ares and zeus buikd

[broken creek]

I think the actual hex on it too is super inconsistent

[rough lintel]

But its coz they are strong themself

[broken creek]

Which sucks because coat doesnt want ares and zeus is fighting with hera to be on special

[slim pike]

ospecial in particular wants to be at the front of your combo

since it's long ranged and takes a while to hit

so waiting until you get a hex, get close enough to hit with the hex and then trying to launch a salvo at something you're now close to is uh.....

[rough lintel]

Solution to selene aspect: use circe staff

problem solved

[broken creek]

Truuuue just switch off

[slim pike]

Skyfall would work a lot better on a different weapon like Momus

ah, yes, that's the other thing

[rough lintel]

How to fix shiva? Use morigan

[slim pike]

Selene's entire aspect bonus is to get a free hex. Every aspect gets an aspect bonus and can add a hex as well anyway

[broken creek]

Nah fixing Shiva is playing it like a chunky mel coat

[rough lintel]

Playing shiva without a good mana regen is like having no mouth and i cant scream

[slim pike]

you say that, but shiva can just brawl with its basic attack

also it was only today I realised that shiva special is just the old skull attack with a funny hat on

same slow bounce, even has the same rocket upgrade

[rough lintel]

That saying i have no mouth and i must scream is so twisted u should read it

[rough lintel]

The only good build is apollo and aphro

[slim pike]

okay but again not my point

[nova oar]

What

(You're talking to THE shiva main btw)

[rough lintel]

Shiva best build is to put artemis attack

[slim pike]

Shiva's attack does like a good bit of embiggening and +%, but it's odd to call those the only options

[rough lintel]

Frfr

Shiva merciful end busted

Need nerf

[rough lintel]

I like aphro on special, bounce on it crazy style 😭😭😭

[slim pike]

Blitz on medea is Hades 2's idea of merciful end, prove me wrong

[rough lintel]

Blitz himself is ME

[slim pike]

We can prove this too, all I have to do is say "Mooncrest Riser" or "Awakened Rockets" and watch you eyeroll without even thinking about it

[broken creek]

When's the 67 clear then twin

[slim pike]

I'm still mad about the fact we have a game that has trick knives and mooncrest riser being seen on the same item, (yes I know they're for different weapons)

[nova oar]

VY ISN'T HERE HE CAN'T STOP ME

[nova oar]

😒

[slim pike]

yeah there we go

[nova oar]

Aphro special shiva is really bad

[slim pike]

(Chakra collider is okay though)

[broken creek]

Me when I look at staff hammers and then look at skull hammers

[nova oar]

Not my first pick but it's solid

[broken creek]

Like there's 2 useful skull hammers max

[rough lintel]

I mean we can just slap zeus on shiva

[slim pike]

Me when I look at possessed array and then literally anything else on skull

[rough lintel]

And it prolly work coz storm ring ftw

[broken creek]

Mfw hel sucks because it cant get p.array

[rough lintel]

U can win runs by just storm ring 😅

[rough lintel]

Hel with legendary ares

And ares hera duo

[broken creek]

Like its bad for other reasons but for the sake of it being funny

[rough lintel]

With poisedon attack

[broken creek]

Just high roll a perfect god pool and boons 😭

[rough lintel]

yea play without fate whim

[broken creek]

But then it does 2 damage max

[rough lintel]

Hel doesnt really brnefit from fate whim tbh

[broken creek]

Bro what

[rough lintel]

Nah u slap poseidon on

[broken creek]

+4 common pos is the same as epic lvl1

[rough lintel]

Once u get the proper build with hel u phase bosses instantly

Theres no point

Nothing lives

Even with +4

[broken creek]

Poseidon and hestia are both gods that love their pom scaling

[slim pike]

You'll take your Helheim charge and like it, mister

[cunning laurel]

"proper build"

[broken creek]

Saying jpom isnt good on it is just not knowing how numbers work

[rough lintel]

Ik that but optimal hel is stronger than just random

Ofc a jpom optimal hel ks better

[slim pike]

Flame strike is actually kinda weird on pom scaling

[broken creek]

There's a reason it sucks at high fear yeah

[rough lintel]

Duh

[slim pike]

15, 10, 10, 10, 5 then 5 forever

[rough lintel]

If u have fast attacking theres no point of pomming hestia

[slim pike]

means that jpom doesn't even use up all of the juicy +10 bonuses

[rough lintel]

U just cap out scorch stack anyways

[broken creek]

Me when I get my super cool and awesome +4 Pyro tech

[rough lintel]

At 999

[slim pike]

999*

[rough lintel]

Oh yea i love

[slim pike]

yeah, but it's a shortcut to freezerburn all the same

[rough lintel]

I think hestia is the second best dps in the game beside sus

[slim pike]

funny to hear that after like, all of EA

[broken creek]

Weapon dependant, hera is generally more impactful regardless of weapon

Zeus/hera work on literally everything and is best for 80% of weapons

[slim pike]

Hera is kind of a dark horse because the game doesn't tell you how much damage it did after a run

[rough lintel]

I love flare, gale, geyser spout, meat grindsr and aq on charon axe

[cunning laurel]

you can feel the hitch though

[rough lintel]

🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️ 30k damage per cast

[broken creek]

I wish it did

[slim pike]

hitch damage just uses the damage source of what caused hitch to proc, you don't see a category for just "hitch"

[broken creek]

The whole screen turns green and everything dies

[fresh wind]

Hera sprint ❤️

[slim pike]

You can feel hereditary bane when doing rivals prom and there's 3.5k of hitch damage stacked up on the other guy

jpom breaks hereditary bane and I'm here for it

[broken creek]

Hereditary bane being additive is crazy

Ik its cuz without jpom its like 10% but still

[slim pike]

+5% for rarity, +10% for pom

[fresh wind]

Clearing out rooms w hitch sprint + bane simply by taking a lap or two is so funny

[slim pike]

It's because the boon doesn't actually have a pom function defined, so it uses a fallback

rapture ring does this too

[rough lintel]

And knucle bone

[slim pike]

it just adds whatever the common rarity does

[rough lintel]

[rough lintel]

Rapture ring dealijh 700 at cast is great

Charon love

[slim pike]

it takes a lot of poms to scale past anvil ring, but it will do that

and yeah, wave boons are just +5

Heaven strike bottoms out at +15 per pom, but heaven flourish bottoms out at +10

bit of a weird one that, but one to think about when pondering king's ransom

(oh and storm ring is a flat +5)

[calm flicker]

Does leveling up Lion Claw refresh it?

[slim pike]

... that's a good question

[calm flicker]

Under the pretense it does, I'm saving up Lion Claw for a very special moment.

I do wonder. What does Lion Claw's decaying nature allude to in Heracles' original myth?

[slim pike]

even if it doesn't, when you hit cherished heirloom you'll still get a nice +20% global

[cursive nacelle]

Yes

[pulsar rose]

how long does a game usually last?

i've seen ppl talking about sub 20 and usually 17 min games are my average

[dire sand]

Depends on your goal

[slim pike]

Screaming speedruns are sub 5 minutes

but that's like, all in on that one goal and nothing else

[pulsar rose]

yea ofc i mean like just an average "beat chronos" run

[dire sand]

Speedruns like a good first goal is probably sub 10, generic play idk however fast you feel like playing I guess

[pulsar rose]

ok

[charred thorn]

what is the best weapon rn

[pulsar rose]

thanks for the answer

[pulsar rose]

aspect of than axe trust

[royal orbit]

Goodmorning another wonderful day to make some progress

[pulsar rose]

afaik there is no best weapon, theyre all really strong

i like using axe but also i've heard a lot of people really hate it

[dire sand]

Medea skull is still all over the src leaderboard so I guess that one's the main good one

[pulsar rose]

its annoying af to use tho, and its honestly only good on speedruns

[charred thorn]

huh really and here is me thinking it's circe

[dire sand]

Ye this is fair

[royal orbit]

The axe with no upgrades seems absolutely trash, mega buns. I managed to get to Chronos by prioritizing the Omega special with magick regen, but only made it to the 2nd phase with extreme sweating

[dire sand]

Realistically it's whatever weapon you vibe with I think

[pulsar rose]

oh yeah 100% no upgrades is AWFUL

[dire sand]

Cause like idk speedrun goals are arbitrary lol

[pulsar rose]

i play it with aspect of than, with rapid hack and psychic whirlwind you're essentially guarranteed to win

[royal orbit]

Thank god some validation so it gets better?

[pulsar rose]

YES 100%, i've always used axe

i'd reccomend getting aspect of thanatos, it's amazing

[pulsar rose]

bonus points if you get nimble limbs at just about any rarity above common

[dire sand]

I'm a blades enjoyer myself

[pulsar rose]

i've liked blades but i can only really do well if i get posidon on attack with them

[royal orbit]

I haven't even tried going to Olympus yet, I JUST unlocked the upper world. But I shall keep Thanatos aspect in mind

[pulsar rose]

oh dont worry about that. I'd reccomend focusing on chronos for now, the surface final boss is a real pain when you're new. i struggled with it a lot

get upgrades with materials from chronos runs, then try surface stuff

[royal orbit]

Oh, I already beat Chronos a few times. Not to brag but, I first tried him( #h2-victory-boasting ) I'm just replaying some underworld runs for any missed dialogue. I think I missed a bit

I really want bronze to unlock the skulls and I think I need to go to the surface for it

[pulsar rose]

you have to beat chronos quite a few times to actually finish the game fully

though thats super understandable if you want to focus ons urface

[royal orbit]

For the perma-death thing right?

[pulsar rose]

yeah

im pretty sure its 8 times for all of them?

[charred thorn]

whats the best build for aspect of melinoe staff

[royal orbit]

Yeah I know what you mean I also just recently unlocked that upgrade. It's like 7 or 8 I think

[calm flicker]

I really don't feel inclined to play Melinoe's Umbral Flames when all 4 aspects play so nicely with the Night Arcana. How do Melinoe & Eos compare?

[pulsar rose]

eos is realyl fun on flames

*really

[pulsar rose]

you need 7 sand for that one, but theres another that uses 1 sand and i reccomend getting that one

have you tried to pause the game in the chronos fight?

[royal orbit]

My first attempt. 💀

[pulsar rose]

yeah, get the upgrade that allows it

you can just tab out to force pause but also its more convenient to have it lmao

[royal orbit]

I don't really see anything wrong with just raw doggin it. Is there an advantage to pausing?

[pulsar rose]

no, but i've had quite a few situations where i need to pause for a moment for a wide variety of things

[craggy totem]

You don't need an upgrade for the normal fight anymore

[pulsar rose]

sweaty controller / hands, some sort of emer-

[pulsar rose]

YOU DONT?

[craggy totem]

Yeah, they changed it for launch

[pulsar rose]

...

[craggy totem]

You still need it ||for the Rival Chronos fight||

[pulsar rose]

i see

well ok then nvm dont waste ur sand

one less fight needed to be done

[royal orbit]

makin pancakes makin bacon pancakes, make some bacon n I put it in a pancake

[pulsar rose]

hades music is so peak

[calm flicker]

It was fun to not be able to puase against Chronos in early access, but we all knew it would inevitably be removed due to simple gaming etiquette. At least Unrivaled Chronos keeps the 4th wall break alive.

[royal orbit]

Just like Thor in GoW Ragnarok

[pulsar rose]

anyways what should i do in the hades 2 now

i've gotten the true ending, and im kinda just running around trying to get my last keepsake from || chronos ||

i keep putting off messing around with || fear || since i already have than at max

[slim pike]

just got the true ending? So not the epilogue yet?

[pulsar rose]

theres an epilogue?

[slim pike]

Play on, there's still a lot more story to see

[pulsar rose]

ooooooooooooooooooooooo ok

what do i need to do for it?

[slim pike]

Stay out of #h2-story-discussion until then

[slim pike]

Just keep consulting the fated list and start ticking stuff off

[pulsar rose]

mk

[slim pike]

do a mix of runs on surface and underworld

basically just have fun playing the game for now

[pulsar rose]

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

but surface boring asfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

its ok i need to get that story.

[slim pike]

Oh and a non-spoiler hint

you need to have vow of rivals 3 enabled on your surface runs eventually

[pulsar rose]

NO

[slim pike]

get that all upgraded if you haven't already

[pulsar rose]

i refuse

epilogue cant be that good anyway.....

[slim pike]

oh pleaaaase, you'll get the hang of it

[pulsar rose]

ugh fine.....

[slim pike]

they're just bosses, and you likely have arcana and weapons to upgrade still

[pulsar rose]

god i hate medea so much.

[slim pike]

You do use the fountains when poisoned right?

[pulsar rose]

ITS LIKE IN HADES 1?

[slim pike]

Yes! The game literally marks it out

[pulsar rose]

no i infact do not, i wasnt aware they were there.

[slim pike]

the dialogue points it out

[pulsar rose]

okay nvm its not that hardd then

[slim pike]

the game draws markers to them when you're poisoned

[pulsar rose]

i see, well thanks

[slim pike]

the fountains even look the same

how... how did you not work this out?

[pulsar rose]

listen

actually i dont have an excuse im just an idiot XD

[craggy totem]

I mean, the game also draws a marker to the object you have to interact with when you do Returning to a Real Possibility, and we still had loads of players come in here like "uhm it's not working"

[slim pike]

it even zooms the camera on it too

you can lead a horse to water, dunk its head in the water until it almost passes out, and apparently the horse still won't understand why it's got a bit wet

[gusty tree]

What is yall’s favorite weapon aspect?

Maybe not necessarily the one you think is best, but the one you enjoy the most

[slim pike]

probably thanatos for just being able to chill and do anything with it

[gusty tree]

Mine is also on the Axe but it is Melinöe

I know it is a strong contender for the worst aspect in the game, but big number and it was the aspect that I first beat the surface with.

[craggy totem]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/280788714790322176/1469009435299938375/image.png?ex=69861926&is=6984c7a6&hm=e5422005a098040be337b7ee9327c63d2df6bc40b2c50031639143bb7c63a480& I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to which is my favorite aspect to play

[gusty tree]

Aspect of Shiva - Interesting

[fresh wind]

So ive been trying Athena in fields of mourning on speedruns bc I know thats the meta but it seems sorta underwhelming?

I get the thinking behind it but its only ever procced for me in the very first room where it has two rewards + very little area to cover

And I know the time spent going to the next reward/unlocking/starting the fight is saved too with timer stopped but I was hoping itd proc in the rooms with 3 rewards not 2 😔

[craggy totem]

I felt the same way

[timid vigil]

i can be wrong about this but athena can only appear on the first 3 encounters, since in fields you'll usually have 2-encounter room into miniboss she'll usually appear on the first encounter or the second if the first one was a fig leaf (she cant appear on miniboss)

[craggy totem]

I guess the thing is that for the super tiptop runners, the like five seconds saved is worth it

For me, as someone who is never gonna be and is not trying to be tiptop, I mostly just ignore amulet

[timid vigil]

the time save is def worth it

[crude dragon]

No, none of the axes are bad

[jolly hound]

yea if your fig leaf and Athena both pop in the first fields, then miniboss, then echo, then another 2 reward room, that’s about as fast as it gets

[craggy totem]

Like, the last time that I PBed, it was by nearly an entire minute -- five seconds isn't gonna register at my level haha

[jolly hound]

but speedrunning in general requires so much random chance, like if you get 3 reward trees only after echo, tough

[crude dragon]

They're not almost all S-tier like the staves are, but none of the axes are below A-tier

[fresh wind]

Yeah i figure the top top runners who run it know more than me

But if its really "just" 7-8 seconds then wouldnt something like metallic droplet be better

[craggy totem]

Those guys are out there figuring out timesaves for the 1.5s it takes for Artemis to spawn in or whatever

[timid vigil]

i'm not a top runner by any means but i feel like the time save is super worth it, still, sometimes i like to gamble hammer r3 if i think getting a best in slot hammer is gonna save me more time than athena (and i like gambling)

[jolly hound]

Moros, it hits really hard and spinning balls with hitch or blitz is absurdly strong

[fresh wind]

With droplet you not only shave time off with pure movement but your build itself becomes better for the whole act

[craggy totem]

Prolly depends on your aspect

[fresh wind]

Then I guess getting the Athena boon itself shouldnt be ignored

[timid vigil]

if i'm playing an omega heavy aspect yeah

[slim pike]

you attack faster too

[fresh wind]

But I mostly wondered if i was missing something beyond "yeah the 7-10 seconds is worth it for top runners"

[short raft]

Is there anything else to use Ashes, remains in the like in the late game?

[craggy totem]

Actually, I'm curious about the Athena boon thing. Do any runners take Strength but deliberately grab the heavy prime "every location" DD from Athena to go with the Antler in Tartarus?

[fresh wind]

Ive had multiple runs in a row where I got it in like, the smallest rooms possible lmao

[jolly hound]

Can’t hurt - if you’re doing something that doesn’t care about mana, the refilling defiance makes antler way less stressful in q4

[timid vigil]

for speedrunning no

[craggy totem]

I almost never antler and the times I did antler weren't very fast because I was too scared lmao

But I was curious :)

[jolly hound]

antler wants you to Leeroy Jenkins

[timid vigil]

my favorite one personally from athena is defensive posture

or righteous pike on moros

[craggy totem]

The cooldown on Posture makes me nervous 😅 I like Mental Block bc it's lowish cooldown and the deflect is centered on Melinoe rather than a projectile

[jolly hound]

if you have a godsent twilight curse and double strike, the extra godsent charges go extremely hard, though that is an edge case

[timid vigil]

i mean... if we are talking speedrunning you'll probably not have a hex at all lol

[craggy totem]

I never get to do more than two hexes in a boss fight, and that's specifically with Twilight Curse + Growth + Chronos

I guess it's diff depending on how omega heavy the weapon is

[jolly hound]

yeah true I adhded a bit

My first rivals 4 chronos win was off a super triple kamehameha so I’m biased

[short raft]

What triggers the rng on the well random item?

[gusty tree]

Something about Weapon aspects that interests me is how effective the Melinoe aspects can be.

It wierdly enough reminds me of alot of the stock weapons from tf2.

[craggy totem]

Yes! I love how good they are (from "decent" to "BiS in some or most circumstances")

[jolly hound]

yeah none of them are obvious downgrades it’s pretty nice

[gusty tree]

But I guess as for favorites

Witch’s Staff - Circe
Sister Blades - Melinöe
Moonstone Axe - Melinöe
Umbral Flames - Eos
Argent Skull - Persephone
Black Coat - Selene

[gusty tree]

Well most of them

cough cough Melione on the skull

[final saddle]

? Mel skull is good

[gusty tree]

It rewards you for having less ammo

[craggy totem]

Yes, so you spend your ammo and don't immediately go pick it up

[jolly hound]

Mel skull is lit. It’s not Medea but I enjoy it

[craggy totem]

That's not a downgrade, that's "you have to think about your playstyle"

[jolly hound]

That hammer that makes the skulls get bigger as they travel is so fun

[craggy totem]

How does that work on Medea, btw? I never understood that

[gusty tree]

Aspect of Medea on the skull is weird

[jolly hound]

I think it hits harder if you load, pause, special but not positive

[gusty tree]

It remains me of one of the bow aspect from hades 1

[jolly hound]

Remap your controls if you’re on controller, it only really shines if you can instantly do attack dash special

[gusty tree]

I use mouse and keyboard

But uh my muscle memory is used to a cursed setup because of what I use in first person shooters

Like really cursed

My friends question my sanity

[jolly hound]

oh ok then someone else can explain it

point is you want to be able to attack then special instantly (for me, not moving my thumb enables this, I’m old)

[calm flicker]

I too complain about using the gamepad on Hades 2.

[gusty tree]

I guess if you want to know my setup

UHJK

Alt for cast

Comma for hex

Space for dash/sprint (I use my pinky)

Mouse for attack and special just like normal

[calm flicker]

Strange. How come you keep your ha- oh, are you left-handed?

[wide wigeon]

what does the proclaim thing do

[craggy totem]

Purely cosmetic, just puts a badge on your victory screen

[gusty tree]

technically left handed, but my mouse is right handed

sooo

[calm flicker]

Just an endgame currency sink whilst you finish completing everyone's arcs.

[gusty tree]

This setup is what I use in first person shooters

[wide wigeon]

im done with everything except the proclaim thing

[wide wigeon]

making my head hurt fr

[wide wigeon]

oh yeah i still need to upgrade hel and shiva to lv5

[gusty tree]

Alt for Crouch

Space to jump

Mouse for attacking and changing weapons

comma to reload

V to interact / pick up items

[merry echo]

Peanut butter im eating high protein peanut butter rn

[calm flicker]

I mean, it's not that bad.

[wide wigeon]

mouse with right hand and keaboard left?

[gusty tree]

Yes

[wide wigeon]

hell yeah

[calm flicker]

I just wonder why you put your left hand on the right side of the keyboard.

[wide wigeon]

wjy not wasd you doing too much rn

[gusty tree]

I like the button layout for my thumb better as opposed to WASD

[wide wigeon]

so like thumb goes to do comma and alt?

[merry echo]

Saves me the time, money and effort

[gusty tree]

I don’t like going up and across directly from my spacebar on wasd

I prefer the more diamondish shape layout of the buttons on WASD

[calm flicker]

Huh. I've seen external gaming hardware that adds an itty-bitty keyboard for where the thumb is. You make do.

[gusty tree]

I mean I use space with my pinky alot of the time and buttons I would hold with my thumb

[craggy totem]

My cursed keybind thing is that I use WASD but.... WASD with my hand in the "home row" position that I was taught in typing class as a kid

(I'm told that gamers move their hand so that their middle three fingers are on WASD)

[gusty tree]

Yes

[calm flicker]

I use WASD because there's few a time when videogames demand so many inputs as to need face buttons for my thumb.

It also helps it's nearby the first integers of the numerical row.

[wide wigeon]

most games im playing other than hades is arrow keys and no mouse at all

[gusty tree]

You call my setup cursed and yet you use arrow keys

[wide wigeon]

its the best for silksong wymmm

[merry echo]

Use wasd bruh

Much easier

[wide wigeon]

no

[gusty tree]

nah, I prefer UHJK

But using arrow keys has to be some type of crime

[wide wigeon]

why would you use wasd on a 2d game

[craggy totem]

Arrow keys are the default keybind for Necrodancer :B both of them

[gusty tree]

Look at your keyboard there is practical use to use UHJK

[calm flicker]

Because that's what my left hand is familiar with: movement.

[gusty tree]

I can’t think of any practical use for arrow keys even for 2d games

[wide wigeon]

nah im only used to left hand movement if the mouse is involved

[calm flicker]

Well, it's useful as a D-pad for KB&M.

[craggy totem]

Mouse isn't involved in the cases I'm thinking of

[wide wigeon]

mouse is always a right hand thing

[calm flicker]

At least when needing to interact with a GUI.

However few a time when the mouse isn't available for interacting with a GUI.

[royal orbit]

What are testaments? I just noticed them

[wide wigeon]

2d games arrows 3d with a moving camera wasd

my brain switches to arrows pretty easy idk about yall lmao i cant even imagine playing silksong with wasd feels weird even thinking about it

[gusty tree]

There are pro players for various games who use next level curse your bloodline keybinds

[craggy totem]

They're basically bounties

They are assigned on a per-weapon basis, and you are tasked with defeating a particular boss with that weapon on a specific level of Fear.

[wide wigeon]

yeah ive seen some league players with insane setups lmao

[gusty tree]

Like if you think mine are bad, some pro players for games like Fortnite or CSGO use nightmare concoction keybinds

[craggy totem]

Completing a Testament (bounty) rewards you with Nightmare, which is primarily used to upgrade your weapon aspects.

Once you've done a couple of these, alternate methods of obtaining Nightmare should slowly become available to help speed up the process.

[gusty tree]

Fasher is a good example

[wide wigeon]

i need to do like 10 runs to completely upgrade all aspects i think

[gusty tree]

He has his hand on the right side of his keyboard which is fine on its own, but he uses Right click to move forward and his mouse look is inverted.

And lo and behold he is still one of the best CSGO players on earth.

[royal orbit]

Cool. Thanks escalier

[bitter stirrup]

I use TFGH because my D key is erratic

Had to change in the middle of my Hades 1 32+ heat runs, still fs me up sometimes

[wide wigeon]

my q was bugging out a few times last week, couldn't cast sometimes its fine now tho

[bitter stirrup]

I also remapped Cast to mouse wheel since I use it a lot

[wide wigeon]

I went back to play hades 1 and the gameplay is much better in 2 but I like the story more in 1

[bitter stirrup]

Yeah H1 had a simpler story so easier to execute and stick the landing

[wide wigeon]

story of 2 feels like it has many more problems

[gusty tree]

I’ll agree that the story of 2 is worse

But I don’t think it is worse because of the premise, I think it is worse due to the structure of the story.

[wide wigeon]

oh i have no problems with the premise lowk amazing premise

[gusty tree]

The story structure is worse

I think that the explanation as to why you are able to play post game is better, but that is the only advantage I give the story of hades 2

Other than that the structure of the story is messier and we don’t get alot of explanations as to why things are

[jolly hound]

Time travel is hard af to write

[gusty tree]

Like we learn that Chronos and Typhon team up, but we don’t really learn why it is Typhon specifically as opposed to another being that could probably cause as much destruction as him

[broken glen]

Yeah the devs bit off more than they could chew, but at least the gameplay is still really good

[jolly hound]

Cause he’s the biggest bad guy in the entire Greek cinematic universe and they want something mountain sized to fight at the end

biggest by volume *

[gusty tree]

Why are Prometheus and Eris bosses fights? Because they feel very disconnected from the main story.

[fresh wind]

I just had a run where I was like 5 sec off my thanatos PB for UW and didnt think much of it, then I remembered I forgot to turn Shadows on for that run 😭

[gusty tree]

We don’t get alot of explanations for things and some of the bosses feel disconnected from Chronos or Typhon which are my main issues with Hades 2’s story

[jolly hound]

Prometheus is working for chronos and leading the surface attack and Eris is a pain in the ass chaos goblin except she has a gun so gotta respect the threat she poses she even says she’s in your way just because

[gusty tree]

did I say prometheus

I meant Polythemus

[jolly hound]

Yea I was kinda like..bruh wut lol

[gusty tree]

Thier names are too damn similar

[jolly hound]

He’s a mob boss

Sounds like he’s from the sopranos, runs a crappy city, has a deal with the local drug dealer

[gusty tree]

Said drug dealer leaves posion god damn everywhere

[naive pier]

Man I hate Hecate's transformation attack.
It's funny in concept, but it's too hard to dodge for the consequence you suffer for getting hit by it.
Like it screeches the gameplay to a halt for FAR too long of a time.
Wish there was a spell to stop it, or turn the timer for getting hit down by like, half.

[fresh wind]

I agree

I used to run frinos sometimes just to mitigate it

[gusty tree]

Bosses that seem to have importance to the main story though

Chronos and Typhon for obvious reasons

Hecate

Scylla

Prometheus

[fresh wind]

Then learned to dodge the single one easily + triple one sometimes

And still think it just shouldnt have been included

I get it works thematically

[naive pier]

the triple one should still be just 1 orb too, like it's super satisfying and difficult to dodge one of them but sometimes you can't even see the other orbs and you're just "YEAH I DODGEED IT- aw, son of a"

Like I don't have any complaints about any other attack in this game except for this one.

[fresh wind]

The only other thing that makes me feel like that is the enemy from fields of mourning that sucks you into its vortex

Idk what theyre called but who decided those should be in the game

What's their name + contact info

I just wanna talk

[jolly hound]

If it helps, you need to dodge 7 times, and dash right through it not away from it

[craggy totem]

I call them vacuum blobs and they are indeed the worst

[jolly hound]

I’ll count em off out loud

[gusty tree]

I don’t think this attack is that bad

[craggy totem]

I don't dodge seven times, I dodge like four times with long sprints in between

[gusty tree]

Not even in her VOR fight

[craggy totem]

My reaction time is too slow to do seven fast dodges, so that's why I need the long sprint version 😔

[naive pier]

I do what Escalier does too.

[jolly hound]

Haven’t tried that, interesting

[craggy totem]

That being said, it's kind of a proof of concept that you can be a slow gamer and still manage it most of the time

[jolly hound]

Make sure you’re not near a pillar when she fires it off, that’s usually why I get hit if I do

[gusty tree]

speaking of VOR, VOR Hecate is like the most tame difficulty spike from the base boss

[real scarab]

nah polyphemous, eris & cerb exist

[gusty tree]

I think it is Hecate and Prometheus

[jolly hound]

And try to ignore the bullet hell just focus on sheep ball if you get hit for 5 damage who cares

[gusty tree]

Prometheus is hard because he is a late game boss with punishing attacks

[wide wigeon]

polyphemus rival is easy asl icl but the worst part of any polyphemus for me is that bird that I hate

[craggy totem]

I would say you can ignore the bullet hell (assuming not max Pain lmfao!!!!) but you can't ignore the Total Eclipse strikes, those things stunlock you

[gusty tree]

But his VOR doesn’t add that much difficulty

[craggy totem]

Polyphemus doesn't have a bird

Are you talking about Prometheus

[wide wigeon]

I was confused LMAO yeah prometheus

[real scarab]

poly is cyclops

[wide wigeon]

polyphemus is the sheep guy yeah medea doesn't add much

[gusty tree]

Polythemus has a lowkey overtuned VOR fight

[wide wigeon]

I js get ptsd from the satry tunnel flashbacks

[gusty tree]

It isn’t the hardest fight in the game, but for how early the boss is

[broken glen]

They have some fun banter at least, Medea becomes his doctor

[wide wigeon]

can we get a hades 3 with 1's level of story and 2's gameplay

[broken glen]

I’d personally prefer for SGG to make a fully original game after this

They can do incredible worldbuilding when they don’t have to abide by the limits of Greek mythos (not saying hades is bad, just that transistor and pyre are REALLY GOOD)

[wide wigeon]

transistor is Futuristic kinda cyberpunk yeah? and pyre is more cottagecore (this is what I remember vaguely its been a minute)

and hades is old timey gods so next game shall be regular man in 2026

[craggy totem]

Pyre is uh.... not cottagecore

You're sort of in fantasy purgatory

[wide wigeon]

its green is all i remember

[craggy totem]

All the food is, like, mud and bugs

You're all convicts from a dystopia who have been exiled into fantasy purgatory

If you've been down there long enough you start involuntarily turning into demons

[wide wigeon]

I played like 15 minutes I died a lot cause I thought it would be js like hades gameplay wise

[broken glen]

The best way I can describe transistor is an apocalyptic, slightly-dystopian utopia

[craggy totem]

Yeah, Pyre has the most unique gameplay of all of their catalogue

[wide wigeon]

transistor has the best songs

[fathom lake]

Hades 2 has so many bangers its illegal

[wide wigeon]

I can only think of 5

[naive pier]

just had the worst Scylla fight i've had thus far

Umbral Flames, Eos, with no attack or special boons
Scylla+Charybdis

The kicker was a Chaos Bane that prevented me from using Omega moves or I'd take damage, so I had to run circles around the arena spamming Hephaestus Cast and specials.
The final Scylla phase was so.
So bad I don't know how I didn't use a death defiance, somehow I kept regenerating AND losing health I do not know how

(Well I did use a DD earlier in the fight)

[fathom lake]

(rivals) Scylla its so annoying 😭

[naive pier]

Odysseus, earlier in the game, when I kept dying over and over to Base Scylla:
"Reports suggest you to after the drummer first."

Rivals Scylla:

[jolly hound]

if you won it wasn’t the worst fight

[naive pier]

Sometimes death is preferable to being tortured

[jolly hound]

At least you got to listen to the entire song

[calm flicker]

So Excellence provides +5 Legendary spawn chance?

[crude dragon]

Yeah

Except for Paid Dues because that has a lower spawn chance

[buoyant matrix]

+5%

higher for miniboss boons

[calm flicker]

Go figure.

I would assume the base Legendary chance is 10%?

[buoyant matrix]

yes

[calm flicker]

Can Scorch be increased with Origination, Ares' Infusion, etc.?

[craggy totem]

For Origination, it's not the Scorch amount that gets increased, but rather the damage that is dealt by proccing a stack of Scorch (and anything else that is a global damage boost -- that is, it doesn't specify a specific damage source -- behaves the same way)

(Not sure about Ares ott)

[buoyant matrix]

ares infusion works like origination yeah

[crude dragon]

I think it's only Furies that increases the stacks applied?

[royal orbit]

Hasty retreat is just one of the best boons in the game right

[buoyant matrix]

you don't get a lot of boons in underworld

it's also very rarity dependant

and usually I'd rather have one of his better boons

[royal orbit]

Yeah true I haven't even done the incantation that stops you from dying yet

[jolly hound]

It’s up there, if you have Apollo daze and aphro infusion it really adds up

[craggy totem]

The +cast damage stuff from Chaos/Arachne etc apparently do increase stacks applied from Smoulder Ring specifically

[calm flicker]

So that's the singular saving grace Demeter's Godsend has over Hestia's.

[crude dragon]

Thing is, it's competing against other extremely-strong boons like Success Rate, Travel Deal, and some other one that I need to look up

[craggy totem]

Nitro Boost?

[calm flicker]

However few of them there are, Demeter's Godsend scales harder with universal +x% DMG buffs. And Zeus' Infusion.

[old veldt]

Nitro boost?

Oh lmao

[crude dragon]

Yeah, Nitro Boost was the other

[craggy totem]

hundreds of nights in, though, my most taken boon is still Quick Buck lmfao

[crude dragon]

It's money

[old veldt]

What's success rate again

[calm flicker]

x1.5 chance likelihood, barring Dodge & Daze.

[crude dragon]

Increases the proc chance for all the RNG effects that aren't Daze or Dodge

[old veldt]

Hmmm okay

[calm flicker]

Ha. I said it sooner & with greater brevity. I won.

[old veldt]

In other servers id snail

🐌

[crude dragon]

Oh, right, Winner's Circle is also situationally strong

[cunning laurel]

nothing compares to nitro boost

[buoyant matrix]

that's at epic, it's 30% at common

[jolly hound]

Zeus infusion loves dem. Arctic gale and tornado dash go brrr

[jolly hound]

fmk: nem, aphro, jetty

[craggy totem]

What a random-ass assortment

[abstract aspen]

https://imgur.com/a/7jeVXRP
I'm running for legendary boon hera but the game said hermes

[brave gate]

I hate Paid Dues

99% of the time when I’m offered it I’d rather pick a different boon and/or use my money to buy stuff

[calm flicker]

I would assume Possessed Array isn't performed without sufficient Magick? Its description using thr word "lose" is very specific.

[jolly hound]

Correct, it just doesn’t pop when the battery is empty

[naive pier]

Sometimes being tortured is preferable to death

[jolly hound]

The “lose” description basically means it doesn’t count for your hex. However if you get things like fine line from Hera or weed killer from dem, which normally raise cost of o attacks, the p array price will stay 25

[calm flicker]

I understood as much.

[jolly hound]

abuse that lol

go brrrr

[calm flicker]

What?! I thought I accidentally posted the same message twice! But I deleted the first one?

[jolly hound]

[calm flicker]

I already equipped Circe's "double Familiar's stat boost" boon. I should equip Silver Wheel.

[jolly hound]

That thing and raki is so busted. Level 7 epic pressure points haha

[calm flicker]

Isn't it redundant to equip Pressure Points with Raki? Wouldn't I rather equip a boon that actively generates CR?

[craggy totem]

Why would it be redundant?

That's like saying "I already got a % attack, I don't need any other +% boons"

They both contribute to the crit rate, it's not like one replaces the other

[merry whale]

pressure points on top of raki go brr

[craggy totem]

S T A C K

[calm flicker]

Increasing one's innate CR to non-0 is the most important part. That's what makes Raki & Pressure Points so powerful. After that, surely I'd want Lethal Snare or other?

[royal orbit]

Is there a synonymous best staff aspect or is it close

[craggy totem]

Lethal Snare only buffs your crit chance on attacks

[calm flicker]

Well, that's my favorite Artemis boon, anyway.

[craggy totem]

I love LS, but there are aspects or builds which could benefit more from global crit chance

[pulsar rose]

finally got every keepsake after || chronos refused to show up for his mf watch ||

[craggy totem]

Charon, for example

[jolly hound]

Probably Circe, but Mel is preferable on o special builds, Anubis gets stupid strong in very specific circumstances, momus is goofy but usable

[merry whale]

spin2win special crit

[craggy totem]

You don't need omega special on Mel staff

[jolly hound]

dual moonshot go brr

[craggy totem]

You still don't need omega special on that

[calm flicker]

Hm? Melinoe's doesn't increase special power.

[jolly hound]

Oh it doesn’t?

[craggy totem]

It increases specials' power

[jolly hound]

Oops

[craggy totem]

You can just use normal special and get the benefit

I understand the confusion, since it also gives you bonus max magick, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything

~~I also understand why they put it on the Melspect, but tbqh it should have gone with Momus or Anubis if they were gonna 🔥 ~~

[merry whale]

wait what

i thought it did buff all specials

am i tripping balls

[calm flicker]

Singular & plural.

I know. It's easy to miss.

[merry whale]

another instance of the omega game not liking when you use omegas

[craggy totem]

No, no, it does buff both, I was just thoughtless and careless with my wording while hastening to say it's not just the omega special. Put me in the stocks 😔

[calm flicker]

At least s are encouraged with Nergal, Anubis, &, to some extent, Shiva.

[merry whale]

ok cool lmao

[calm flicker]

It's more fun to build for Magick.

[merry whale]

game weird

mhm, i just feel like this game is so weeeird with how it treats magic like it's an entirely optional archetype

rather than treating it like an integral part of the game

[craggy totem]

I just think about Hecate's abs

[merry whale]

this is after me playing thru nine sols a while back, that game has insanely cool mechanics that actually wants you to abuse the tech it's built around in order to get thru the game

[craggy totem]

Is she a powerful ancient witch? Yes

[merry whale]

hecate do be strong

[craggy totem]

But she works out anyway. Gotta get that eight pack

[merry whale]

this is also the issue i have with how omegas feel balanced around arcana increasing omega charge speed for safer use, only to have that stripped away in max fear so ur further discouraged to build around omegas

and even if u do it's more difficult to build around and rarely even outclasses just playing omegaless 🐟

in another timeline game woulda embraced omegas more and made them integral for high level playing but unfortunately

[calm flicker]

I find it rather baffling Moonstone Axe's
dash-attack -> special -> attack 1 -> attack 2
deals greater DPS than attack from a design standpoint. For fecund's sake, it has a very heavy commitment demand & costs Magick.

[craggy totem]

IDT that a game needs to be balanced around its highest difficulty (this is, admittedly, coming from the perspective of a Necrodancer player, where the highest difficulty character removes every weapon unlock and almost every health/healing mechanic in the game), but even at a casual level, there is a bit of a ? wrt the balance between some of the omega moves and their normal counterparts

Like Blu's example :P

Or perhaps balanced around is the wrong phrase to use at the beginning there -- centered around? Catering to?

[calm flicker]

What's IDT?

[craggy totem]

Er, "I don't think"

[merry whale]

i think my thoughts just apply to "high level" as in even for casual players it should be like they can play omegaless, but playing with omegas should substantially elevate their gameplay

which is simply not true and omegas are just an archetype u can play or not

[craggy totem]

I wouldn't even mind that if it weren't for the fact that there are multiple aspects where it's like, the omega attack and/or special are actively unpleasant and suboptimal to use

[merry whale]

truue like what the hell is nergal ospec gonna do

[craggy totem]

People rag on normal coats' omega attack (me included kinda....) but at least it has a little bit of a niche for certain players

Hel omega attack is like? ??? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

[merry whale]

in fact when in the world am i getting hel omega attack out without being punished for trying to charge hel omega attack

because in no world am i going to stand still for 4 valuable seconds? when i'm actively encouraged to use omega special to activate valk which disables omega attack charging?

omega attack coat is like very ok

[slim pike]

3 without sorceress

[craggy totem]

Doesn't Sorceress decrease channel time?

[slim pike]

2.1ish with. But that is a looooong time

[merry whale]

still standing still for 3secs is ass

[craggy totem]

Oh, okay, gotcha

[merry whale]

2secs even

[craggy totem]

Look, Tranquil Gain requires you to do it for, what, 0.5s? And I already hate it

[slim pike]

I think it only counts once the attack starts firing too

Hel attack can be made to work but you need helheim charge and racing thoughts or revelation

[calm flicker]

Hm? Whether or not Nergal's special's multiple hits trigger Berserk charge, I always figured it was a low-commitment version of attack. After all, the player's movement speed whilst channeling the move is relatively fast, not to mention it has quite a fast channel speed.

[slim pike]

By christ that adpect beeds a channel time hammer

[slim pike]

One charge per swing. But multiple heals once berserk

[merry whale]

maybe, idk i've always found it just better to nergal omega attack lol

[calm flicker]

So there we have it. There are multiple uses for Nergal's special.

[merry whale]

that also bothers me cuz ospec is like the one ranged option for axe

normal axe

[slim pike]

It's actually quite good. But it's basically oattack but on a different button

[merry whale]

hm, i see

ig i'll see to playing around nergal ospec more

[slim pike]

Giga cleaver and ET make it lulzy

4 procs of the entire ospecial, but you can move freely after the first like normal

So you leave this lingering pulsing AOE while mel can solit down and make a sandwich or something

[calm flicker]

Low commitment version of attack.

[merry whale]

aphro cast hera ospec

we have solved room clears

[slim pike]

Also normal special on nergal is useful generally

[merry whale]

ye i find myself using normal spec to poke a bit

[calm flicker]

(Although, Nergal's special has long endlag, so don't just spam it in the fray).

[slim pike]

Sometimes you just want to bap someone without doing whac a mole

It's axe dashstrike on a different button

[craggy totem]

[TF2 Engineer Gunslinger thwap] "bap"

[slim pike]

Oattack is a bit werid too

3 charge stages, 1, 3, 5 swings

Each one bigger than the last

But if you only charge one level, you get 50% more power

[calm flicker]

I wish non-Nergal's attack's DPS was proportional its

massive

commitment demand.

[slim pike]

Oh hey psychic whirlwind

Didn't see you there

[craggy totem]

Hammer dependence 😒

[slim pike]

Ever got exceptional talent on the axe?

[merry whale]

oh yea than is like uniquely ass in terms of how it needs the nutty hammers

it why i like playing mel axe more

[slim pike]

You get to pretend the enemies are all playing super meat boy

[slim pike]

That needs dashing heave

[merry whale]

technically ye but u also have leeway into psychic or seething or rapid etc

having a % boon on atk is already enough

[craggy totem]

Rapid Hack and Seething Marauder are also perfectly fine on Thanatos

[slim pike]

Seething moreso

[craggy totem]

It might not be speedrunny or whatever, but it's Fine ™ for casual play

[slim pike]

Rapid makes mel axe into than axe but way harder hitting

[merry whale]

idk i just remember struggling for days trying to get a than 62 surface

compared to mel

maybe i suffer from skill issue

[craggy totem]

62 Surface is not casual 😆 But sympathies on ur struggle

[merry whale]

62 surface is casual with the nutty aspects

[pallid cradle]

Anything is casual if you run it enough and then say it was first try

[jolly hound]

life is pain

[merry whale]

i mean i have like a 70% success rate on 62 runs rn

it's just kinda a thing i do when i'm bored now and need easy brain stimulation

[calm flicker]

Oh? I figure keeping to special/cast is good enough for Thanatos' Mortality.

[craggy totem]

Nobody except Charon really relies on omega cast for damage tbh

Not as a primary linchpin anywho

And Charon isn't doing the omega cast "manually"

[pallid cradle]

You can make circe an omega cast weapon but it's not what it starts off wanting to be.

[royal orbit]

I got Hestia's cast heroic, and it supposedly deals 120 damage per second, but the scorch description says foes take 100 damage every second. I'm sorta confused, is it stacked or is it capped?

[craggy totem]

Scorch goes into a sort of "bank" of damage

[naive pier]

(Sorry for tiny wall of text)
I am about to attempt my first* Underworld Rivals!Chronos run, and I am...rather intimidated, even moreso because this I just did 12 Fear Olympus and need to do a 16 fear Underworld now.
And, I still struggle with both Rivals!Scylla and Rivals!Cerberus, too.

Any advice on what weapon/aspect+keepsake to bring into Erebus, and what Daedalus/Boons I should look out for?
My preferred weapons are
Staff - Melinoë
Blades - Melinoë
Flames - Melinoë, Eos
Axe - Thanatos
Skull - Medea, Hel
Arms - Melinoë, Selene

[craggy totem]

And then you deal damage from that banked Scorch at a fixed rate

This means if you apply a bazillion scorch, the DoT is still capped at the same rate, but it'll keep ticking for a long time because you banked so much

[broken creek]

The easy answer is mel staff, hera special zeus attack get dual and shimmering moonshot

And keepsake route should always be jpom -> chrolex -> whatever -> pin/antler

[craggy totem]

There is a boon, Pyro Technique, that can increase your Scorch damage tick rate (which will burn through your bank faster)

And another boon, Burning Desire, which effectively makes your bank temporarily infinite as long as you keep the enemy weak

[royal orbit]

Essentially if your scorch damage is 400 just to toss out a number, it'll deal it in 4 seconds. Also, coincidentally I have Pyro Technique here too, but Smolder Ring is heroic

[calm flicker]

I mean, cast is extremely easy to perform. I've formed the habit of never performing regular cast when I can dodge whilst channeling it.

[cunning laurel]

it isnt instant though

[broken creek]

Yeah ocast is still fundamentally a risk

[cunning laurel]

why not just cast and use your weapon instead

[broken creek]

In which avoiding that risk is 99% of the time better

[naive pier]

I'm still running Dice arcana builds in my underworld runs until Narcissus gives me his last boon...but I guess I should hold off for this specific run.

[broken creek]

Yeah jpom and chrolex are 2 of the strongest keepsakes in the game so :P

[cunning laurel]

dice is strong enough too, start with zeus or hera

[old veldt]

What do you use for third area

[calm flicker]

I know. Always performing cast is a remnant of me always performing moves when I was under the pretense they always dealt greater DPS.

Obviously, I know better, but cast remains.

[broken creek]

When i say whatever I mean whatever 😭, e.hammer, gonion, gorgon, early pin, wheel, sash, card are all super valid picks depending on the situation

Hell even moon beam if ur a freak

[craggy totem]

Yes, 4s unless you have Pyro Technique speeding it up. Though one sneaky thing is that it doesn't wait a full 1s to do a 100dmg chunk -- apparently it's in smaller increments that just average out to 100/s

[old veldt]

How does the first part of 'seek us melinoe' work? Is it gifting a certain amount do nectar, hearing a certain amount of dialogue, etc

[royal orbit]

I've caught onto that, it'll do 1 damage per/0.01 second

[calm flicker]

Basically yes.

[craggy totem]

IIRC it's hitting certain points in their dialogue progression, assuming I haven't mixed up the steps

Some of that may require you to gift nectar as part of it, though?

[red fox]

Few of them need max heart i believe

[old veldt]

Okay

[calm flicker]

Zagreus was at least slightly surprised Melinoe didn't read the fine print of the infernal contract. Could this suggest Zagreus has, at least to a small extent, gotten better at bureaucracy?

[frigid vigil]

After being confused why I hadn't unlocked the "Fair Fight" achievement on Steam, I looked it up and apparently I'm not the only one with this issue. I play on Switch and Steam via cross-saves so I'm wondering if that has anything to do with it.

Any advice on how to proc this achievement on Steam?

[nova oar]

It's not an achievement that works across the saves

You need to do it on steam

[frigid vigil]

Just as I suspected. Thanks

[naive moth]

does the circe +15% size thing increase mel’s hitbox?

i kept getting tagged by Prometheus’s flames

[nova oar]

Yes

[naive moth]

see i thought it might but there’s no way that makes prometheus flames undodgable

unless i just need to git gud

[pulsar rose]

question, what does || reaching silver status with charon mean ||

ping me if a response btw im doing a run rn lol

[nova oar]

Isn't that just his bond

[pulsar rose]

oh, i didnt get a popup for anything

"Oh i have 3 boons at common that i'd love to rarify, i'll switch to phial before using the fountain"

"Arctic gale gets rarified which i didnt even realize i had" (im gonna get air quality anyways so its useless)

End Task -> Reopen

[old veldt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1343254467583152148/1469144412591362150/83406aa7-c297-4368-927c-68e0e481e7ec.jpg?ex=698696db&is=6985455b&hm=74d74c9ee7beb837e60dbd7c71470fdfce7569cb56f2eb0cc0a6830467b4efa2&
I died to Cerberus first time trying 32 fear (tho tbf it was first then on rivals 3), is this the optimal oath setup? Moros torches btw

Sorry for bad photo I can't be bothered to send from switch rn lmao

[broken creek]

Could be easier tbf

Lemme make you one, are you firm on frenzy1?

[old veldt]

I mean if it's not the best I'd change, but it doesn't seem a big deal

In fact I was recommend frenzy 2

For wards grit hubris

[broken creek]

Yeah frenzy2 makes timer easier and lets you be lax on others

[old veldt]

Oh I thought you were recommending 0 lmao

[broken creek]

https://h2crossroads.pages.dev/FearCalculator/?vows=WzAsMCwxLDYsMCwwLDAsNSwwLDIsMCwwLDYsMCwyLDIsOF0=

Id do this

[old veldt]

Denial?

[broken creek]

Hubris2 is still a joke vow, denial is just a mindset change, fangs2 is free with no hoards

[old veldt]

Over shadow?

[broken creek]

Oh yeah I forgot shadow exists

Yeah change that lol

And debt2 is still free with chrolex

Although if you plan on going higher id recommend you get used to denial decision making

[old veldt]

Ok

Ty

[old veldt]

Btw do you normally cheolex boons you don't want/magick or minor finds

[cunning laurel]

never a boon really

[broken creek]

Uhhh magic pots depending on the weapon, hearts if im greedy, chaos and selene all the time

And boons can work if youve already gotten a lot of em and wanna stop a force(denial) or just keep em out of your pool

[red fox]

Boon sometimes if i don't need anything already

[broken creek]

I minimum aim for 1 chaos purge and 3 minor purges, sets you up with 1100 not including boatman, rewards, or enemies

[pulsar rose]

no athena, i actually dont want to prime literally all but 10 of my magick to deactivate my strength

[jolly hound]

Purging chaos in front of nyx

[ocean cargo]

yo i got a question

[old veldt]

Huh, I never really thought about chaos

[broken creek]

Or when she says she wishes to speak with me and i leave cuz im on a timer and dont care

[old veldt]

Like purging them

[ocean cargo]

how do u unlock great chaos below......

[broken creek]

Free 500 gold, room skip, and zero risk 😌

[cunning laurel]

every pet every keepsake every aspect and some other fear stuff

[ocean cargo]

alr alr do i need fear 16?

[cunning laurel]

maybe, idk the exact value. itll probably be done if you get every testament

[ocean cargo]

i got every testament

i think it cuz im missing onepet

[cunning laurel]

that'll do it

[ocean cargo]

bet

THANK YOU TWIN 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[wide wigeon]

which forms yall got your pets

[jolly hound]

red hecuba, white raki, hat toula, evil frinos and gale

[wide wigeon]

ion remember gale but for me its friendly frinos hat toula red hecuba and black raki

[cunning laurel]

love a red raki

[harsh swift]

When is this game coming to Xbox

[cunning laurel]

probably this year but who knows

[calm flicker]

Heh. I didn't get Trick Knives for Morrigan, but I did get Final Slice, Zeus' Infusion, & Sweeping Ambush.

[red fox]

Because it is unavailable on morrigan

[calm flicker]

Oh. Go figure.

[nova oar]

Never

[short raft]

How do i dodge the triple sytch throw on ||Chronos phase 3? || i usually tank it.

[ebon badger]

hello! may I speak to a server moderator please?

[craggy totem]

I purge boons if I'm running Denial and I know I've run out of stuff I actually want

[craggy totem]

DM the ModMail bot in the sidebar

[nova oar]

What for??

[ebon badger]

thank you

[ebon badger]

thanks for the help yall! have a good evening!

[old veldt]

does onion from forefit affect godpool

[craggy totem]

No