h2-discussion

[crude dragon]

The thing you ought to be spamming on it

[nimble rivet]

(i understand that yet it is easier to handwave it with "internet lingo" lol)

[wild slate]

so i need the chaos boon tht gives 55% less magick used

[crude dragon]

No, you don't

[wild slate]

or else i dont see the point

[nimble rivet]

Nope

Does he know?

[crude dragon]

You take Lucid Gain and your MP is solved for the entire run

[wild slate]

i dont use the regen card

oh i see

[craggy totem]

What is a gain boon that sounds fake

[crude dragon]

Grisly Gain

[nimble rivet]

Cardio Gain

[craggy totem]

Ah yes, cardio gain, when you go to the gym and do cardio for sick gains

[smoky orchid]

3

[pallid cradle]

The regen card is garbage, you shouldn't be using it

[nimble rivet]

This tbh

[craggy totem]

Might need to get the other two familiars maybe

[smoky orchid]

Aww

[nimble rivet]

Which is also why Glamour Gain is garbo as well

[craggy totem]

Glamour Gain is great you take that back

Aphrodite wants to know your location (jk she already knows your location from her little birds)

[pallid cradle]

Glamour is better as an orig proc than a gain

[crude dragon]

No, Glamour at least has the Origination proc going for it

[nimble rivet]

HOWEVER you CAN get origination stacks off of glamour gain by just walking so that's but better

[craggy totem]

At least with jpom, ime it legit is enough to function as a genuine gain boon for low-medium magick usage as long as you're in melee a lot

not just as a curse applicator

[nimble rivet]

(When you're on your phone and forget that your typing speed is terrible and get corrected by others with what you were gonna say anyway)

[wild slate]

so which boon do i go for for magick regen

[crude dragon]

On Charon? You always take Lucid

[nimble rivet]

It depends on the run but since you're trying Aspect of Charon, GO FOR LUCID GAIN

[wild slate]

i dont like the one where i need to get hit

[wild slate]

is this apollos one

[nimble rivet]

Yes.

[crude dragon]

The only reason you take Tough Gain is for Brave Face runs

[pallid cradle]

Lucid or Born Gain on Charon

[craggy totem]

(Like, the main issue with Unseen isn't just that it doesn't work while channeling, it's that plus the grasp cost. Glamour Gain doesn't come with a disproportionate opportunity cost in that way.)

[craggy totem]

The other reason is that you're playing magickless and you just want gods to stop offering you goddamn gain boons ;P

[nimble rivet]

Lucid Gain is so integral to Charon that I rerolled epic attack, special, and dash boons just to get lucid gain

[wild slate]

idk what brave face is but usully i just take what i can get thats not common

[crude dragon]

It's the Hera/Heph Duo that turns your MP bar into a form of mitigation

[nimble rivet]

I forgot what Brave Face is as well

[pallid cradle]

I run JPom on Charon a lot so I've used lucid, born, and flood gains all pretty effectively

[craggy totem]

Flood Gain is so underrated

[wild slate]

lucid gain maxed is only 100

[nimble rivet]

Neat, always thought that run would be pretty hard to pull off for me

[craggy totem]

Repeating the PSA: Flood Gain makes it so that even if you have zero magick, as long as FG is off cooldown, you can still re-trigger Flood, use your omega moves, and start regenning magick

[nimble rivet]

Only? Pal your O special is never hitting a 100 magick! You've got practically infinite magick!

[pallid cradle]

No, it's incredibly overrated. You can end up getting screwed on the timer quite a bit depending on weapon

[craggy totem]

People don't even know how it works, it can't be overrated

I'm talking gen pop here, not high Fear runners

[crude dragon]

TBF, you do also want the attack or special from Apollo to open up his Legendary, but yeah

The regen's the priority

[wild slate]

is bond forged just for decoration? like that mini head thing that appears on keepsakes

[crude dragon]

Pretty much

[nimble rivet]

Can't get Apollo's Legendary if you get thunked by early game because you keep running out of mana 🤷‍♂️

[pallid cradle]

Cardio Gain is also incredibly overrated by too many people imo

[craggy totem]

Exceptional Talent is overrated 😈 🔥

Why don't we have a golden apple of Discord emote smh

[nimble rivet]

Eh I wouldn't say it's overrated, Cardio Gain just has really good synergy with a bunch of builds

[crude dragon]

If only I said as much in the message

[nimble rivet]

Scorch w Mirrored Thrasher w blue or above Cardio Gain is a damage machine

[nimble rivet]

I can't read I'm sorry I just go off of the pictures and the voices in the game

[crude dragon]

On most builds, yes

[limpid frigate]

O i need to try that it sounds peak

[nimble rivet]

Although you can get a lot of better damage machines I merely used this as an example for how Cardio Gain synergises

[craggy totem]

Somebody got soooo offended when I said I personally disliked it lmao

[nimble rivet]

That's the Apollo Legendary, if I'm not wrong?

[crude dragon]

It is, yes

[pallid cradle]

The only reason I think this is considered good is it mitigates the cost of thrasher. It doesn't really add anything to your omega spam if that's what you're going for

[limpid frigate]

The only build i can see exceptional talent being woth on off the top of my head are artemis builds

[wild slate]

what attack boon do i go for

[nimble rivet]

But my funni autofire attack spam build that is not viable in high fear

[pallid cradle]

If you wanna 1 button to victory anywhere up to 32-40 fear just play Mel Staff

[crude dragon]

On Charon, the Attack slot only exists to open up Duos and Legendaries

You want either Hera or Apollo on the Special

[wild slate]

how do i get that

[craggy totem]

Be fair now.... it's also there to save your ass in early game when RNG didn't give you proper gain or cast boons yet

[nimble rivet]

Sir, I am honored that you think I'm good enough to do 32-40 Fear runs

[pallid cradle]

I still can't believe I won my first 32 run in a few months, rusty as hell with Mel Staff and minimal effort

[crude dragon]

Depends on the Duo or Legendary in question

[nimble rivet]

Do you have the book which you can consult to see what all the Gods offer?

[wild slate]

how do i get any in general i havent seen them in ages

[wild slate]

the offerings when i press Y?

[nimble rivet]

Yep

[wild slate]

i never use it

[crude dragon]

You have to have their prerequisites filled, then they have about a 10% chance to show up from then on

[nimble rivet]

Duuuuude its so helpful it gives you the exact requirements for what boons you need to unlock legendaries and duos

[crude dragon]

You should start

[wild slate]

ok so which legend/duo do i go for

[nimble rivet]

PLEASE learn to use it sooner rather than later

[craggy totem]

I can; I think people undervalue the benefit of previous existence, rust or not :P

[pallid cradle]

You are. I don't think there's anyone in this community who can't beat 32 Fear. It's always the vows people take that makes it unnecessarily hard for them. It's very rarely lack of ability to actually do it.

[nimble rivet]

The main one you want to aim for is Exceptional Talent, Apollo's Legendary boon

Unless, of course, the professionals in chat think otherwise

[nimble rivet]

True...

[craggy totem]

I mean, sometimes it's also lack of time to put toward the grind

[pallid cradle]

That's the most inspirational thing you'll ever see me say in this chat.

Feel honored lmao

[wild slate]

so where do i go from here
https://ibb.co/0RpjwxXV
https://ibb.co/9knbwx07

oh i have no embed perms 🥀

[nimble rivet]

Oof i haven't played the game enough to have memorised the icons

[wild slate]

haha fairs

[crude dragon]

Security System and no cores? Yikes

[pallid cradle]

Apollo door for the special or sprint, if you get the sprint go Hera for special, try to roll Zeus for a better cast or just settle on Heph for cast.

[crude dragon]

Nvm, you have the regen

[wild slate]

whats a core

[pallid cradle]

And you can pretty much have your build set out of that Ephyra

[wild slate]

OH nvm soryr

[nimble rivet]

The five boons that you can see even when your boons tab is closed

Attack, Special, Cast, Rush, Gain

[crude dragon]

Your core 5 boons, that being Attack, Special, Cast, Sprint, and mana regen

[nimble rivet]

Often times, most Duos are unlocked with putting two Gods in two core slots

I say often times but it's half of the time moreso

[crude dragon]

You could also pick up a Hex, since Charon's a weapon that will go through enough MP to have decent uptime

But that's secondary to getting your build online

[wild slate]

i got apollo sprint epic, hera special rare

[gusty maple]

Isn't Zeus attack / Apollo special best on Charon axe to open Zeus/Apollo duo ? That's often what I seek personally

[crude dragon]

No

Charon detonations don't trigger Glorious Disaster

[wild slate]

whats a good hex for it

[gusty maple]

oh wait really ?

I have flawed memories then

Must admit it's been a while since I did a Charon axe run

[nimble rivet]

Guys what's a good Heph build? I've been able to utilise every other god except Heph

[crude dragon]

Mom skull so you can gamble into a 2-second blast off the start, go for the Hestia and Apollo Duos

Also try to snag the Poseidon Duo to get even more frequent clangs

[nimble rivet]

Town Bell run

[median plinth]

I've found heph most fun as a supplemental god. Blasts are good if you can get the poseidon duo, but the shields every room is solid and gives you the freedom to do things like silken sash into white antler (I'm not a speedrun/max fear player)

[crude dragon]

You haven't lived until you get a clang run going

[nimble rivet]

The whole world's my anvil

[median plinth]

I also just did a charon run with hammer on cast + double special hammer. clang clang clang all over the map. That was fun

[nimble rivet]

I'll try this out tomorrow, but for now, I must go. And in case I don't see ya, good afternoon, good evening and good night.

[crude dragon]

Like, even without the Duos and just having a minimum-cooldown blast, Furnace Blast, and Grand Caldera, it still goes insane

It was enough to carry my first win on my 1.0 file, before I had my usual setups and Strength

[rotund hearth]

The cling clang is fine but it's not my first pick

[crude dragon]

And boy howdy are there so many nails to hit

[rotund hearth]

Though if it's rarified it's crazy though

Cling clang every 4 secs

[median plinth]

yeah I was already through the 2nd region and needed something on the cast before the boss

turned out to be good with the "sticks to opp" cast that jpom gave me, much better than expected.

[craggy totem]

Howling Soul is pretty nice with all the casts that have DoT (and Apollo cast, which only damages at the end)

[pallid cradle]

Good build

[wild slate]

what i have now, is it realistic to get the duo/legend attack boon BEFORE i encounter Prometheus? hes the boss i struggle with the most
https://ibb.co/jkrVGYBT

[pallid cradle]

Not a very good bonus when you get J-Pommed into it at the start of a Charon run

Threw my timings all kinda off

[pallid cradle]

I probably wouldn't have taken the Zeus cast here

I don't like Zeus on Charon tho. Personal thing maybe

[wild slate]

i thought u said i should

[pallid cradle]

I said reroll the Zeus or just settle on Heph

[wild slate]

reroll? there was nothing to reroll

that was apollo

wait so i messed up with the boons then?

[crude dragon]

Zeus's cast wants to linger for full damage, Charon forcibly ends casts. Ideally, you want a one-and-done source of damage on it like Apollo or Poseidon, or something that'll persist after the cast expires like Hephaestus

[wild slate]

ohh

that makes sense

[crude dragon]

I would mention Hera if I didn't think Engagement Ring was the worst Cast in the game

[wild slate]

oh i forgot i stil have Eris before i fight Prom

so i can still change keepsake

[wild slate]

what boon do i go for now then (for my attack) 😭 🙏

[brisk dirge]

Ikr?? I can't seem to find any of the others

[pallid cradle]

You don't really go for attack on Charon. Usually I take it for a duo if I want one or I just finish with an empty attack boon slot

[craggy totem]

Which do you have so far?

[wild slate]

pardon

[wild slate]

which duo should i go for

[sturdy magnet]

I remember changing my Zeus boon Attack because I didn't want to put a cloud on Prometheus's hair

[wild slate]

finally got the duo boon sob

[crude dragon]

Which one?

[brisk dirge]

Cat and frog

[brisk dirge]

What does the pre nerf Strength arcana did

[crude dragon]

Was 50% DR and 25% damage

[craggy totem]

Bird is in the Underworld in a fountain room, you just have to keep an eye out. Dog is in Echo's room and polecat is on the Surface in the shop before Prometheus.

Dog and polecat are technically Hecate's familiars, so you'll need to get her permission to recruit them, but I think you need to recruit bird first.

[sturdy magnet]

I recruited Gale before Raki

[smoky orchid]

Its rly easy

Frog: behind where you spawn in the Crossroads when you do a run

Bird: shows up at random in Erebus before you fight Hecate

Cat: will show up at the far left of the docks before you go onto the first ship

Dog: needs specific dialogue from Hecate saying she will let the dog follow you

Polecat: same as above

I can't strengthen the ones I have tho

Frustrating but oh well.

[daring steppe]

Been playing for bit. Anyone else feel like Zeus's lightning bolts feel smaller and less impactful than the first game? Back then they were big thick bolts that felt powerful as hell... In the Typhon fight it looks like little sparks

[buoyant matrix]

zeus is still one of the strongest in the game, do you mean just visually?

[median plinth]

one of my primary complaints about the game is that the screen gets so terribly noisy with so many effects on

get fireball, fine line, balls, explosions, just too much

[light bear]

U need 4 pets then the incantation to upgrade pets will show up

[craggy totem]

I guess if the lightning bolts were bigger it would be even noisier!

[daring steppe]

Yes visually

[buoyant matrix]

the game is significantly more visually cluttered than h1 so it helps reduce confusion

it's a necessary sacrifice they had to make

[rustic mesa]

Day 1 ea player, starting a new file on my switch copy... I forgot what it's like to have to collect reagents lol

It's nice to see the game with all its polish from the start though !

[jolly hound]

Throw on hordes 3 for a few rounds then turn it off you’ll feel better

[median plinth]

it just feels like I'm playing diablo 2 again

I love the game and have put 100 hours, but man I wish some of the effects were under more control

[merry whale]

one can only dream for a visual clarity patch

[jolly hound]

Oh in that case do hordes 3 frenzy 2 then turn it off after three rounds and you’ll be good to go

It’s like Goku working out in high gravity

[tropic ravine]

Got a 7 mins 30 second run yesterday I’m sooo happy

[maiden mirage]

Is there some special requirement for Survive Survive Survive to appear? It just isn't showing up for me, and its the last one I need for voice of truth

[craggy totem]

Have you been running with Death Defiances?

[maiden mirage]

Yes, and have usually used at least one before getting there

[craggy totem]

Sounds like bad luck then.

[maiden mirage]

Would it be easier to try to get it by running one of the trials in the fields? Might make it go a bit faster at least, unless Echo won't show up during those

[tranquil wren]

she won't

[maiden mirage]

Well then, I'll just see if it comes up while doing runs for Bearing Dark Gifts I guess. I've got a few more to go for that yet. I need a few more aspects to finish that, Survive Survive Survive, and the Hestia legendary, and I'll have finished everything on the list. Lol

[craggy totem]

I'm impressed you got Heph legendary before Hestia legendary.

[maiden mirage]

I got Heph a couple times now, but i also used Master Conductor in quite a few runs, and threw in armor boons frequently, so that helped get there quicker.

I tend to get arctic ring on majority of my runs for the utility of it, so I just don't meet the requirements for Fire Away most times.

[craggy totem]

Ah, no wonder, of course.

[shrewd silo]

Do chaos trials contribute to story or anything?

[craggy totem]

Not directly, but I believe completing a certain total number of them is required to fully advance Chaos' relationship

[ebon bough]

i just cant win in the overworld. im starting to get fed up. soooo many runs and not a single victory. i made it to the boss 1 time on a run that featured 12 revives...

[maiden mirage]

I was playing h2 last night, and my family had some channel playing on the TV, and Clash of The Titans started, and the whole time in my head I'm going "No, that's not what Hades looks like, that's not how that happened, why did they make Zeus so shiny? That lady just said her daughter is more beautiful than Aphrodite, she's going to get cursed or something, that guy isn't insufferable enough to be Perseus " and so on. Am I cooked? Have the games rotted my brain too much?

[cunning laurel]

nah that movie is just very 2010

[median plinth]

let me know when you figure this out because I feel the same way

[cunning laurel]

what specifically are yall having trouble with on the surface

[devout cairn]

they keep getting distracted by prometheus's huge pecs

[median plinth]

I think each of the bosses take down significantly more health than I can handle

[tropic ravine]

Try god mode it increases your defense and it’s not cheating it’s on the settings

[tropic ravine]

Try god mode it increases your defense and it’s not cheating it’s on the settings

All it does is increase your defense

[median plinth]

yeah but the whole challenge is beating it. I've already gotten the story

[abstract depot]

No DDs for Chronos Phase 1 & 2 but Chronos Phase 3 burns through ALL OF THEM

[median plinth]

(I can beat it, just takes particular build/boon combinations to get there at the fear I'm currently running)

[abstract depot]

this guy is so nuts you need stutter step to reliably dodge everything 💔

[median plinth]

someone described chronos 3 as "my turn your turn" style combat and that helped me a ton

[ebon bough]

kinda everything. underworld is fairly easy and if i give it an honest try, i can win fairly reliably. so why can i not do the same on the surface? how is it a skill issue?

[ebon bough]

hell nah

[tropic ravine]

Just a suggestion 🤷‍♂️

What’s your weapon

[ebon bough]

even random enemies just have so much health. prometheus always kills me a couple times, which is certainly because i have not faced him many times

[tropic ravine]

Could be a build issue

[ebon bough]

my favourite are the fists and the daggers, but mostly the fists

[craggy totem]

Are you bothering to get anti-armor boons or hammers?

[ebon bough]

i take them when offered

[tropic ravine]

Fists?

Like the mech suit?

[ebon bough]

the black coat or whatever the iron man suit is called

[tropic ravine]

Mech suit isn’t really that good

Especially if your struggling

[nova oar]

😒

[tropic ravine]

For beginners

He’s struggling alot

[nova oar]

Eh you're not wrong

[tropic ravine]

I would say just use no skill Medea like me

[craggy totem]

Hm... I guess I can't relate because for me, black coat was the secret ingredient that just let me beat the Surface without trouble lol

What's your playstyle on it generally like?

[tropic ravine]

Ivr beaten fsme 50 times

[echo mural]

e

[nova oar]

I wouldn't call medea no skill

[tropic ravine]

By no skill I meant like really easy

[ebon bough]

Thats what it felt like for me too. Yet things just fall apart always

[cunning laurel]

just bc its strong doesnt make it easy

[nova oar]

It's easy to get a good build that can carry you but it's pretty technical

[tropic ravine]

For me atleast it was

[tropic ravine]

Yeah

I mean all weapons are good in some sense but some are a lot better than others imo

[nova oar]

100%

[tropic ravine]

Especially at beginning

[ebon bough]

I use all of its attacks. Spam attack, charge when expecting an attack, use charged special when melee isnt an option

[nova oar]

Some aspects are alot better unleveled than others

[tropic ravine]

Do you use casts?

[median plinth]

I found mel skull easier than medea honestly

[ebon bough]

I really wanna get 2nd aspect of the black coat, but i have never seen that gem before 🙁

[ebon bough]

Yes

[craggy totem]

FWIW there's plenty of things that the omega attack can't block, so it might be safer to just use your dash iframes when you're expecting an attack to come in. What arcana are you running?

[median plinth]

don't need to dash into enemies and take a chunk of damage, just dance around and pepper them

[nova oar]

I would never really use the ospecial, oattack is good for huntress, but apart from that just attack and special

[hearty fog]

Honestly, Medea is a pretty good implementation of high risk, high reward.

[nova oar]

2nd aspect is way worse than the first one

[hearty fog]

It's got one of the highest skill floors of any Aspect in H2.

[tropic ravine]

Yeah but after a few runs it’ get so good

[craggy totem]

You never use the ospecial on coat?

[ebon bough]

Damn

[hearty fog]

And man does it crush once you get there.

[nova oar]

Oh we're not talking about medea?

[craggy totem]

No, PH and I are talking about coat

[ebon bough]

Why not ospecial? How do you use the regular special?

[nova oar]

Oh lmfao you're right then

[craggy totem]

She got mixed up between two convos, that's all

TFW no threading

[ebon bough]

Oh righr

[tropic ravine]

Triangle button on ps5 controller

[nova oar]

Ignore me I was talking about medea, for coat absolutely use ospecial but don't use oattack

[craggy totem]

But I do want to point out, the regular special can be spammed at the same time as you attack without interrupting yourself, so it's actually not that hard to queue up regular specials too

[ebon bough]

Feels like a worse version of the secret shield from h1

[craggy totem]

Yeah, don't rely on it for safety

[nova oar]

Medea is stronger than beowulf ever could be

[ebon bough]

I like to use oattack when i wanna ignore armored enemies trying to attack

[tropic ravine]

Accidental pregnant man emoji sorry

[ebon bough]

What boons do you guys recommend for the coat?

[hearty fog]

Yeah, even allowing how much more powerful Melinoe is than Zagreus, Medea not having to be tied to Bloodstones or Tipsy Shot makes it so much more powerful.

[nova oar]

Oattack is very bad just don't use it

[hearty fog]

Like, every Medea run is a Tipsy Shot Beowulf run.

[ebon bough]

Hm, okay

[nova oar]

And it has access to heinous

[craggy totem]

My personal favorite is Hestia attack, though Poseidon attack is also highly recommended in general. On special you can run whatever thing with a useful curse that you want. (favorite hammer is Exhaust Riser, of course 😆 )

[ebon bough]

Maybe i should look into using medea more cause i really liked that build in h1

[tropic ravine]

What’s the best aspect for the coat I really don’t like it at all

Looks so underpowered

[hearty fog]

Ares Attack, Zeus Special, Light Smite from Apollo. The world is your oyster.

[nova oar]

Poseidon or hestia on attack, hitch/blitz on special, go for exhaust riser and launcher frame/shimmering rockets

[nova oar]

Nyx>Shiva>Mel>>>>>>Selene

[tropic ravine]

Really

A sprint omega

[ebon bough]

Alright, im gonna try these tips

[tropic ravine]

How many attempts have you done

[thin laurel]

the point of nyx is less the sprint omega itself and more the buff it gives you

[nova oar]

Night spawn is really good and it's free extra damage

[tropic ravine]

Might have to do some coat runs soon

[ebon bough]

To be clear, do you mean that selene is really terrible or really good?

[craggy totem]

She hates Selene

[tropic ravine]

Selene in general is ass

[thin laurel]

in general if you like fast paced non-magick gameplay it’s Mel or Nyx
if you like channeling it’s Shiva or Selene, but Selene is a bit underwhelming

[craggy totem]

Many people do consider it the weakest coat relatively speaking, but she has an especial and personal hate for it lol

[hearty fog]

I'd swap Shiva and Nyx (Shiva has the 67 clear) but otherwise agree.

[craggy totem]

As far as I'm concerned Mel>Nyx>Selene>Shiva 🔥 ⚔️ 👀 😈 👀

[crude dragon]

Nyx with Poseidon and chain lightning

[hearty fog]

The removal of Attack Curse from Sky Fall kneecapped Selene.

[nova oar]

It's worse than the other coat aspects

[thin laurel]

idk if shiva having the 67 clear matters as much in this scenario considering it didn’t like….. use the aspect. for general use I’d say Nyx comes out on top, as much as I like Shiva

[nova oar]

Nyx is better in general for speeds and high fear vytautas is just built different lmfao

[hearty fog]

Roger, roger.

[thin laurel]

you could also compare 62 and 65f use rates I suppose, and I’d guess for high fear Mel coat is more popular than Shiva tbh

[nova oar]

Shiva is my favourite aspect but nyx still clears it

[thin laurel]

but also yeah the guy who did the shiva 67 is just kinda insane, and could have done it with any coat easily

[craggy totem]

Just did it to flex huh 😆

[nova oar]

Pretty much yeah, if it can do damage, he can 67f it

[craggy totem]

Has Supay been done yet

[nova oar]

Are you trying to start a fight

Pretty sure supay is only 65

[craggy totem]

I can't imagine why you would look at that specific comment and come up with the notion that I would have been trying to "start" a "fight" :P

[nova oar]

😒

[thin laurel]

think for a moment abt the way esca uses shiva

[nova oar]

True 😔

[thin laurel]

as a personal tier list I think “dash attack shiva with no omega attack” is in fact the worst of the bunch actually

[nova oar]

Oh absolutely lmfaooo

[craggy totem]

This dog too old to learn new tricks after all 🫡

[thin laurel]

Mel > Nyx I personally disagree with but also they’re so similar fr, and iirc Mel Coat is their favorite weapon period so

[gritty jewel]

Quick question: If I unequip the ||Jeweled Pom|| in the middle of the run. Do the boons that I've received lose their levels?

[craggy totem]

Nope

You also keep the blessing and continue to receive bonus levels as long as you maintain the Fates' Whim conditions

[thin laurel]

not only that, you keep getting bonus levels for future boons too. the effect lasts all run, unless you take a keepsake which breaks fate’s whim

[craggy totem]

It's sweet AS

[tropic ravine]

I can agree

[gritty jewel]

Sweet, thanks for the quick reply. Don't think I'm getting many if any more boons in ||Tartarus||, so might as well stick on the Knuckle Bones 👍

[thin laurel]

i.e. if you take a keepsake from the 9 gods who offer core boons, or from athena (hermes arty dio and selene are fine for various reasons)

[gritty jewel]

Huh. I've been keeping it equipped for the whole run

[nova oar]

Why not take antler

[craggy totem]

Yeah you don't need to do that, it doesn't give you any benefit to keep it on for multiple regions

[nova oar]

Take it off region 2

[tropic ravine]

Fun fact ||fig leaf|| doesn’t break the conditions of ||fates whil||

[thin laurel]

all you have to do it put it on region 1 then avoid taking 10 specific keepsakes

[gritty jewel]

I like more than 30 hp 🤣

[nova oar]

BORING

[gritty jewel]

Wow, seems good

[thin laurel]

VERY good, and then you can stack it with the other fate’s whim keepsakes if you want to

[crude dragon]

I think you should be forced to learn to play Shiva correctly

[craggy totem]

And all of the FW keepsakes work the same way

[craggy totem]

What, ya gonna turn up at my front door with a controller and a lesson plan? :P

[thin laurel]

just avoid the 9 core gods (whose keepsakes let you rarify one of their boons), and Athena keepsake. everything else is fine.
and even if you take those you don’t lose any bonus levels you already have, you just lose the hades boon + stop getting future boons powered up

[gritty jewel]

Oh no images here?

[crude dragon]

I was thinking more like a car battery and jumper cables, but that'd be the idea

[craggy totem]

You can upload elsewhere and link here

[gritty jewel]

I have the Heroic keepsake Duo

[nova oar]

Nope

[gritty jewel]

Not all of them are Heroic

[nova oar]

Even more reason to take antler

[crude dragon]

50% crit go brr

[thin laurel]

oh yeah, some don’t have a rank 4 (aka the 9 core gods + narcissus)

[nova oar]

Some can't go to lvl 4

[gritty jewel]

lmao, I have never used the antler and suspect I won't until it's the very last to do 😛

[craggy totem]

It also doesn't automatically set your keepsakes to rank 4 -- it's +1 rank, so if you have any underleveled keepsakes, those will be less than rank 4 too

[nova oar]

You're missing out

[crude dragon]

You really ought to, because it's 30% crit at rank 3 and 50% at rank 4

Before Success Rate

[gritty jewel]

Heroic Knucks it is

[thin laurel]

antler is fun af, some time if you have good damage and a lot of free hits try it out 👀
stuff like snow queen, lovers, gale, nitro boost, trusty shield, other forms of armor… dodge and daze help too, or blood spree from ares. so do DDs.
you deal so much damage that bosses often won’t be able to hit you enough times to actually damage your health bar lol

[craggy totem]

I'm just gonna take a moment to plug final zone Lion's Fang, especially with Cherished Heirloom

[thin laurel]

also yeah lion’s fang is VERY good, better than knuckle bones for offense and it’s not rly close

[craggy totem]

As the alternative for those of us of the "weenie" persuasion

[crude dragon]

Weenie Hut Antler

[thin laurel]

I think ppl assume it’s not good because the bonus slowly goes away, but it’s still solid by the end unless you’re taking literally every tartarus side room possible

[nova oar]

[hearty fog]

Do you not?

[gritty jewel]

I am coward 😛

[nova oar]

I never take tart side rooms

[thin laurel]

then try investing in lion fang 👀 some time
no downside, just damage

[maiden mirage]

Finally got Survive Survive Survive

[thin laurel]

or if you want max safety consider engraved pin

[hearty fog]

found the fake fan

[thin laurel]

knuckle bones only rly pops off versus multi target bosses imo

[gritty jewel]

I had a ridiculous run with that

[craggy totem]

Chronos is a Cheaty McCheatergramps and doesn't even take damage from knucklebones on his extra phases, 0/10 grandparent

[thin laurel]

survive survive survive the run saver fr…. also has doomed 4 good 62 attempts of mine on morrigan when echo refuses to offer it AND athena doesn’t offer renewed faith smh

[gritty jewel]

Lost 4 DD in Erebus, then she refilled them and then I got the Boon from Hades where you do extra damage from DDs popped

[nova oar]

Exactly why it sucks

[gritty jewel]

So good

[nova oar]

How does one lose 4 dd's in erebus

[craggy totem]

Legit when I first started the game I thought knucks worked by reducing the total max HP of the boss by the specified %

The truth was disappointing!!!!

[gritty jewel]

||Very early Zagreus for the first time ever||

[thin laurel]

oh that’ll do it lol

I was going to say if it’s high fear then I get it, but I doubt you’re doing 62 fear or something lol

[gritty jewel]

I had a single boon, I think. Thankfully Toula was with me

I ended the fight against Rivals Hecate with 1 hp.

[thin laurel]

but at 62 I’ve absolutely lost 3-4 DDs during the hecate fight (to her and timer), refilled them in oceanus, and then proceeded to do the next two regions mostly hitless lol. erebus just sucks

[nova oar]

Still winning that is aura tho

[nova oar]

AMEN

[thin laurel]

also I think coldshade empowered me to not care as much if my erebus is bad, he was like. “oh yeah I go 40 seconds overtime for hecate, it’s no big deal. you only lost 1-2 DDs? nice”

[tropic ravine]

Anyone else think it’s kinda boring after you finish the true ending and npcs don’t talk about anything important anymore

[gritty jewel]

I think it was the best run I'd had by the end. Finished with 42 boons etc.

[nova oar]

I always reset if I don't get the sub 5

[nova oar]

Have you done the epilogue? Gets you more dialogue

[tropic ravine]

I have

[thin laurel]

I did when we were both working on it, then I asked for advice abt nyx and went like. oh. oh right, overtime erebus is kinda fine if your build is in a good place for a fast oceanus

[tropic ravine]

Rest of my achievements I have to do is prophecies

[thin laurel]

I agree that the dialogue gets a bit less interesting post-epilogue, but also I can’t rly imagine how to remedy that since like. they can’t recording Actually infinite dialogue, or make the story never end

if it wasn’t a roguelike game it would just be Over and fresh file time at that point lol

[nova oar]

You've finished all the story content ofc theres no more dialogue

[tropic ravine]

I know but it’s soook sad

Hopefully dlc is soon

Right supergiant

[nova oar]

Yeah i mean oceanus is always fairly quick just hope you get the dd refills

[nova oar]

We won't get dlc

[tropic ravine]

Aw

Confirmed?

[hearty fog]

I very very very sincerely hope the next thing we get from SGG is a new game entirely.

[thin laurel]

agreed.
I like hades. love it even. I want them to do a new unrelated project, please

[hearty fog]

Turn-based slightly horror RPG with the directional attack system from the PS1 classic RPG The Legend of Legaia.

[nova oar]

They said they were done working on the game

[tropic ravine]

Dang

Oh well new project then

[hearty fog]

Hades is my favorite game of all-time.

[nova oar]

If we even do get another update it'll be balance changes at best

[tropic ravine]

Hopefully it’s just as or even better as hades

[hearty fog]

But I easily love the worlds of Transistor and Pyre more.

[tropic ravine]

The new projects to come

[thin laurel]

my worst case scenario is hades 2 randomly entering Sisyphean live service hell for some reason.
and second worst is immediate hades 3 with no other stories in between. I like their original worlds, a lot

[tropic ravine]

Imagine hades 2 but made by Ubisoft

Would be like tartarus

[thin laurel]

EXACTLY.
hades and hades 2 are the most polished of their games and have by far my favorite gameplay, but SGG is too good at coming up with original worlds for me to want to see endless iterations of “what if x mythology”

[hearty fog]

The contraints of the existing mythology dampens some of the greatest creative minds of the generation.

That's an insane thing to say, ignore that.

[thin laurel]

also I think they’re very good at roguelikes but idk if I want them to get stuck in “roguelikes only” forever. there are some interesting and memorable story beats in their other games which just Can’t exist in hades

[hearty fog]

I've been stunlocked by music exactly 3 times in my gaming career.

The first time was stumbling upon Zia's room in Bastion. The second was the first time I hit the title screen on Armored Core: For Answer. The third was Eurydice's room.

[nova oar]

Drumsha moment

[thin laurel]

that is what I was thinking about yes lmfaooo

[ocean void]

Do anyone knows what is the thing that looks like a wax seal atop the 4th save slot?

[nova oar]

Could you dm me a ss?

[ocean void]

Done.

[storm glen]

the balcony in cave story did it for me

[maiden mirage]

Ok, every time I discover some new tiny detail, I'm even more impressed. Chronos has voice lines for if you have the timer enabled, really? Lol

[nova oar]

He also has pause voicelines

[pallid cradle]

Hades 1 story was better, Hades 2 gameplay clears

[thin laurel]

I wanna say Hermes has timer enabled voice lines too lol

[gritty jewel]

Managed to beat Rivals Scylla first time. Very ||goth||

[maiden mirage]

Yep, I knew about that

[gritty jewel]

Well now I'm curious 👀

[thin laurel]

honestly impressive, that fight is insane. top 3 or so hardest in the game I’d say (altho ofc adding vows like frenzy and pain makes it a lot harder)

[gritty jewel]

I'm just doing Rivals vows atm. Fun one!

[thin laurel]

also the choice of featured artist can make it vary a lot 👀 do you remember who you got?

[gritty jewel]

||Charybdis||...

[thin laurel]

then extra impressive to first try it, that one is 100% the scariest when the fight is new to you

[gritty jewel]

Am gamer 😎

[thin laurel]

at this point I find featured scylla more annoying just because one specific move of hers during that fight is bizarrely hard to dodge

but it’s fun, I like how much it varies

[gritty jewel]

I'm assuming ||he does the big AOE where you need to hide near the drummer?||

[thin laurel]

you mean the scylla attack I find annoying? or

the move of hers I hate is her charging at you in her shell lol. it’s very simple but the timing and hitbox on it are both just unpredictable enough that she catches me off guard

[crude dragon]

No, the donut is just Roxy, she does that in the base fight as well

[gritty jewel]

Big fan of Scylla. Top fact, her voice actress is the same one who plays Blonde Blazer in Dispatch 🙂

Oh and Elspeth in MTG Arena!

[thin laurel]

her voice actress is fantastic yeah
also plays dora!

[gritty jewel]

Also great in the Dispatch One-shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=METTzGKzmxU

[nova oar]

It was the save select icon

[nova oar]

Hey I did it first try with frenzy where's my medal

Thank you smashman I greatly appreciate it

[thin laurel]

....did I know you existed when you first did rivals? ngl idr, I feel like we started interacting later than that, idr crossing paths during EA much

[nova oar]

Uh definitely not I wasn't active here till full release

[thin laurel]

ahhhh okay makes sense

I was only rly active for like. warsong, I played during olympuc but didn't join the disc

[nova oar]

I did all the rivals first try tho (moros my beloved)

[nova oar]

I didn't play at all between warsong and 1.0

[thin laurel]

idr which I first tried... I wasn't a particularly good player during early Unseen lol, I think that's the patch where I started to actually get good
I thiiiink I died to sirens but otherwise first tried?

altho I vaguely remember considering dying on purpose based on scylla dialogue lol. ily scylla, anything for you (I guess)

[storm glen]

i was so active (lie)

[abstract depot]

The charge is bull

i literally do not understand why its so obnoxious to dodge

[storm glen]

the 1 move in the game u have to iframe dodge

[nova oar]

All you have to do is dodge into her

[abstract depot]

Yeah she still clips me 8/10 times, her dash is bs

[pallid cradle]

Ironically how siren songs work.

[thin laurel]

the timing is just very weird, idt it's consistent so if you mistime it she clips you right when dash is on cooldown

[pallid cradle]

"I love you, anything for you"

[tiny timber]

any advice on completing the last step of the fates prophecy? i find it is hard to tell when a room is finished

[thin laurel]

I think I remember red or someone posting a clip of dying to it and I felt vindicated since he is a way, WAY better player than I am lol

[thin laurel]

if there's only 1 enemy left and no others are spawning that should mean it's the last wave
also, you can do it in 2 chaos trials and skip erebus so if you mess up it's faster to retry

[tiny timber]

that chaos tip is a godsend. thanks i'll try that if this run doesn't work

[nova oar]

Then you're mistiming it

[thin laurel]

trial of doom works, and so does the one in oceanus with no pre-chosen keepsake

[icy canopy]

Hey fellas I just joined because I figured I could ask some questions if i need it

Is there any ways to farm nightmare easier and quicker or am I kinda just stuck getting 1 per run and thats it

[thin laurel]

eventually you'll unlock the ability to buy it directly from the broker, and special order it with charon cards

[icy canopy]

I can currently buy it from the brocker, as for charon cards I dont think I can yet

[thin laurel]

there's also an incantation which makes region 4 rooms sometimes have some free rewards (including nightmare, moon dust, pet treats) if your fear is at 12+

and higher fear bounties iirc reward more than 1 nightmare

[nova oar]

You need to have 8 nightmare in your inventory and talk to charon

[icy canopy]

whats the incantation called?

[icy canopy]

ok bet

[flat roost]

Circe made me smol and I just ran into Icarus and im TINY this is doing things to me

[tall notch]

||prometheus|| just dodged demeter legendary

i didnt even know that was possible

damn

[sturdy magnet]

During the Trial of God/ Dispute. I would prefer any other gods than Zeus. As a payback for what he did to Prometheus

Same thing I do in the first game. Choosing Anyone except Athena for what happened to Arachne (I know Arachne was a bit overconfident as a mortal that time. But still)

[cunning laurel]

lol fighting athena was soo annoying back then

[craggy totem]

What a legend

[sturdy magnet]

I did that in second gameplay of Hades

[tall notch]

ikr?

[sturdy magnet]

Heheheh this for Arachne.

[storm glen]

dude she was right does the confidence even matter she won bruh

[crude dragon]

Would you choose Zeus over Hera because of what she did to Heracles and Echo?

[tall notch]

chat is "trying to look like ||prometheus|| from hades 2" a valid workout goal?

[tall notch]

oof hard choice

[crude dragon]

Yes

[sturdy magnet]

I always forget what Hera did to Echo and Heracles

Yet her boons are OP

[sturdy magnet]

Yeah. She did has some guts when Athena interacted with her after a long time.

[maiden mirage]

Well, I only need to win with 6 aspects to have finished everything on the list. Anubis, Pan, Melinoe(Revaal), Persephone, Hel and Nyx

[crude dragon]

Well, she cursed Heracles into a fugue state where he murdered his wife and kids (the crime for his labors), and is the reason Echo can only repeat what others say

[foggy sable]

so how do I properly use medea?

[red fox]

Atk special repeat

[sturdy magnet]

I knew that.

[crude dragon]

Pull a pin, Special in

[foggy sable]

it honestly feels like the least complicated aspect in the game

which worries me because usually things aren't actually simple

[sturdy magnet]

I wouldn’t blame Heracles fighting alongside Prometheus in the Vow of Rivals

[red fox]

The hard thing is avoiding damage when you always in enemy face

[foggy sable]

fair

[nova oar]

Stealing this

[crude dragon]

By all means

[nova oar]

You just spam attack special as fast as possible, the hard part is aiming it right and not taking damahe

[tropic ravine]

Im trying to beat chronos with antler but hes sooo hard

Im using mods to go to him instantly

[nova oar]

😭

[foggy sable]

how do I unlock purging pools for all regions

[tender oracle]

remember to set your right arm on fire after getting buff!

[nova oar]

Purge i think 5 boons at the tart well

[tender oracle]

use the tartarus purging pool enough times and eventually it'll show up as an incantation

[nova oar]

Get snow queen, lovers, nitro boost, blood spree, life tax, armour, the works

[red fox]

3 purge only iirc

[tender oracle]

note that surface does not get purging pools

[nova oar]

Or just do it naked, he's still pretty easy

[tender oracle]

Rivals 4:

[smoky orchid]

A lot

[nova oar]

I can antler rivals 4 just not naked

[smoky orchid]

So I... I googled heracles just so I could learn more

Reading through his Wikipedia, and... he is responsible for the milky way. But by accident. But... Man

Greek mythology is so wild

[tall notch]

Unrivaled Aura or Third Degree Burns, call it

[tropic ravine]

I hate that one orb thingy

[nova oar]

Orb thingy?

You mean the throbbers?

[tall notch]

thats what that is called?

wild

[nova oar]

Yeah the gold chronos orbs are golden throbbers

[tall notch]

how do i use anubis to kill anything thats not a low hp enemy

guardians seems impossible with anubis ngl

[nova oar]

Pos attack for normal runs, ospecial for speedruns, super strong aspect

[tall notch]

how do i single target damage tho?

[nova oar]

Do you want me to record a run? Anubis can shred single target with a good build

[nimble rivet]

Don't get too attached to your dmg radius is all I can say

Keep shifting it

[tropic ravine]

I think so yes

[tall notch]

is the single target dps good with the special? I agree that the aspect has the best crowd control but maybe im just using it wrong

[tropic ravine]

Im hitting him and spawns them then I instantly die

[tall notch]

you dont need to record an entire run anyway 💀

ill do some research

[nova oar]

Ospecial is the best for speedruns but you're definitely doing smth wrong cause anubis can get great dps

[nova oar]

I felt like doing some high fear anubis 🥺

[tall notch]

is the regular special not any good? Ill try to use the aspect again next time

[tall notch]

well you could do them regardless? :D

[nova oar]

It's more funny than it is good, nice for origination

[nova oar]

I'm gonna do I reckon a 55

And if I don't first try it then i'm gonna give up and cry

[tall notch]

well if you DO record it ill give it a watch

2 times i have used anubis and it just tickles the cyclops

[nova oar]

I'll probably just do the bossfights i won't make a whole vid

[nova oar]

Should I do uw or sf then

[nimble rivet]

You'd better use Hecuba

[tall notch]

anything, i just wanna know how people even use it in bosses

[cunning laurel]

are you using omega attack

[nova oar]

Why would I need hecuba

[nimble rivet]

Fair Lúthien and the loyal hound Huan ;)

[nova oar]

Rivals or normal

[tall notch]

it summons those line things right? they seem like avg damage for the mana cost but i just straight up might be wrong

[nova oar]

Oattack is good but depends on the attack boon

[tall notch]

how would you even do 55 without rivals? lol

[merry whale]

scorch alone tends to carry underworld, blitz on spec is also super nice

[nova oar]

I would do less fear with non rivals lmfao

[tall notch]

are those lines just like the circle or do they do imeediate damage?

[nova oar]

They're like the circle

I'll do 45f surface and 55 uw today I think

[tropic ravine]

Ares restoring hp when attacking clutched up

[tall notch]

that boon on dual blades is just straight up unfiar

[tropic ravine]

Weirdly enough the keepsake is making me go more slower than faster

Antlers

[nova oar]

Playing it too safe

[tropic ravine]

But his second phase is light work

[foggy sable]

genuine tough decision

do I want secret crush or a 10 AIR WISPY WILES

lol

(im like 90% using my attack)

[nova oar]

Infusion

[nimble rivet]

Flashback to when it carried me through Rivals Sirens

[tall notch]

does spamming the anubis attack have any benefits?

[nova oar]

No

Do I take the 170% aphro attack on anubis this could be really funny

[red fox]

You ..change the location ig

[fickle drum]

I have a question that might sound a little weird. My friends told me that the game felt a bit bs to them at first. One even said he felt like quitting after dying to for example Chronos' nearly-full-screen attack, before learning how it worked. That the original felt more fair. Now, I completely believe them, although my own experience was very different. I was just curious, does anyone have accounts matching their or know anyone who does?

[tropic ravine]

anyone else notice that once you use someones boons they dont pop up for a few runs?

[nova oar]

I never felt like there was much bs, it was always my own fault when I died

[nova oar]

It's random

[tropic ravine]

really

[cunning laurel]

ive probably had zeus special the past 20 runs

[fickle drum]

It's not unusual to see patterns in randomness that aren't there.

[red fox]

Before learning how the fight work always feel bs thats how it work, just like how poison bs in rival 1 surface until i learn it is fixed pattern

Die to chronos insta kill? Don't n stand in red or dark ground next time that is the most telegraph move in game

[fickle drum]

They said they didn't know there was a safe spot because it wasn't on screen.

I said I just kinda... Followed the lines.

[storm glen]

this game is much fairer than h1 imo

[devout cairn]

I can see Chronos' oneshots being a bit bs when you first start but aside from that the game feels fine, mostly

[storm glen]

hades 1 is even worse with visual clutter and balance

[fickle drum]

I am a little frustrated that I can't tell Prometheus' animations apart, but I think I don't mind having room for improvement.

[storm glen]

i think most hades 1 players dont actually know how to fight the bosses and just button mash in general directions

[tall notch]

any visual clutter in hades 2 is far surpassed by the immediate boliling blood in hades 1

honest to god wake up dp in my isometric roguelike

[nova oar]

this is the weirdest anubis build i've ever had

[cunning laurel]

did you actually go aphro attack

[fickle drum]

Now that I think about it, I think Hades 1 leaned a lot more on hyperaggression than this game does. I mean I still think it rewards aggression, but it's more nuanced, I feel.

[nimble rivet]

The context heavily changes through games, and the feel/design changes accordingly.

In Hades, your overprotective (but not really) dad is trying to keep you from going to the surface. There is no reason for him to be petty, nor to be unfair.

In Hades II, everyone is out to kill you, honor and fairness be damned. Chronos very clearly states on multiple different occasions that he is not trying to be fair and does not give a flying fart cloud about honor or some other nonsense.
Hence, in Hades II, every single attack is underhanded. And as such, you have to pull out your own underhanded measures too.

There is no fairness here, only Death to Chronos

[fickle drum]

Yet he humors you when you pause the game.

[nova oar]

I did yes, hera special with controlled burn and fine lines, it's working well

[storm glen]

chronos is definitely messing with u in this game lol

he shows up in the zone 2 intermission literally just to fck with you

[nimble rivet]

He doesn't respect you at all!

[craggy totem]

Hera special 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

[craggy totem]

Not to mention the nightmare sequences!

[storm glen]

anyway about hades 1 and 2 i said this take very early in EA but it hasnt come up since

but in hades 2 it feels like the enemies are traps

which is why there arent as many actual hazards

[fickle drum]

Oceanus would like to have a word.

[cunning laurel]

or they realized traps arent fun

[storm glen]

more enemies control specific spaces instead pf just bum rushing u

[fickle drum]

You have no idea how often I lose tons of HP to steam vents.

[nimble rivet]

The whole game is obsessed with zoning

[red fox]

Well some enemy still bum rushing you just we have better answer against that

[craggy totem]

and some of them just chill in specific corners of the room doing absolutely nothing so that you have to be like "why isn't this encounter ending" and then hunt them down

[storm glen]

yes they gave us a space control tool too to counter that

[nimble rivet]

The new cast is the single greatest innovation of Hades II

[storm glen]

in turn enemies that do rush you are more relentless

[fickle drum]

The cast's primary purpose seems to be defensive, at least until you buff it.

[nimble rivet]

Fishy death flashback...

[storm glen]

the closest thing to smth like that in h1 is the numbskull room of death

[red fox]

Horde + fishes is something

[fickle drum]

Like those shriekers are probably the first example of why the cast works the way it does.

[storm glen]

where you load into a room of numbskulls constantly giving each other blue shields

[nova oar]

just realised i dont have dds on i might be screwed

[crude dragon]

Pain

Agony, even

[merry whale]

hordes 3 with fish is unbelievably painful lol i wish they just all spawned at once

[fickle drum]

But then they wouldn't bs you to death.

[merry whale]

tru

[crude dragon]

At least fish get hard-countered by stuff like Dying Wish and Flash Fry

[craggy totem]

High Surf

[storm glen]

fish will break past the cast eventually you know

[merry whale]

truu i should pick up dying wish more

[fickle drum]

I was just wondering if there were people who had experiences closer to theirs, or maybe I'm just more of a real gamer than I think?

[merry whale]

i've been ignoring that boon since jpom meta

[storm glen]

a lot of people complain about the chronos ohko

[merry whale]

memory game was a lil controversial during ea

i find it fun and the optional rivals twist makes it super fun

[fickle drum]

Memory game breaks the pace a little but it's not unfair.

[storm glen]

proms first iteration was on crack cocaine

[nimble rivet]

I assume we are speaking of the time bubbles that linger after Chronos activates them? Yeah, those are unfair while still being fair.

[fickle drum]

More waves and faster?

No it's the fullscreen attack that threw them for a loop.

[storm glen]

the memory game was identical but his actual moves were near unreactable

[icy halo]

The thing about memory game is it's a skill not remotely tested anywhere else in the game. So folks for whom the rest of the game is completely accessible can have trouble there. I'm not saying that that makes it wrong for SG to feature it - I don't think games have to be designed to be accessible to 100% of people - but it's interesting

[fickle drum]

So the way I feel about Prom now, except with less skill issue?

[storm glen]

hed finish his fire field and then immediately backhanded you for 40 damage and there was nothing you could do about it

[storm glen]

yeah prom now is actually doable

[nimble rivet]

Oh we're speaking of Prometheus lol

[storm glen]

i remember people would not stop complaining about hestia

[nimble rivet]

For some reason I thought of the time bubbles in Chronos' phase 2 lolololo

[fickle drum]

I had to be specifically told that Prometheus and Heracles never attack simultaneously.

[tropic ravine]

Noooooo I was doing so well but had the same time as last

[fickle drum]

Originally it was about Chronos' fullscreen attack.

[storm glen]

she was bad back then but like. 80dps scorch wasnt that bad cmon guys

[nimble rivet]

More specifically, Prom and Heracles have active and passive attack phases. But both can't be in the active phase at the same time.

It's like Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls but better

[fickle drum]

Passive attack?

[nimble rivet]

Passive behaviour is a better word

[fickle drum]

I don't dark souls, I'm not that much of a god gamer.

[storm glen]

ranged attacks

one of them will rush you and the other will spam you

[tropic ravine]

did she get buffee

[fickle drum]

Like every time I beat a boss in Bloodborne I was just glad it was over. I didn't really feel like I learned anything. It was more like the boss decided to die that time.

[storm glen]

yea

[nimble rivet]

Haven't played Bloodborne lol

[tropic ravine]

same

[nimble rivet]

But Dark Souls I can speak for. Dark Souls isn't necessarily hard, it just needs time and commitment, moreso than other games.

[fickle drum]

Also I got kinda tired of having to farm blood vials every other attempt at a boss.

[graceful dune]

Never played BloodBorne, just know my dad played it and it was hard

[neon isle]

for the memory you can iframe the flames too so i think its not as huge of an accessibility concern as ppl say

[nimble rivet]

Anyways this is #h2-discussion so let's not continue speaking of Souls games here

[fickle drum]

Haha true

[neon isle]

thats not to say that accessibility isnt terribly important

just that there are other ways to beat prom

[nimble rivet]

The flames linger for just long enough that you get thunked post i-frames

[fickle drum]

I don't know how to time dash well enough to completely avoid an attack.

[neon isle]

oh interesting, i usually stick to the top and then get iframed there

[storm glen]

no ur doing it wrong

[fickle drum]

Going against the wave does help.

[nimble rivet]

Entirely possible

How's the modding scene for Hades II rn?

[fickle drum]

As far as I can tell the wave is an actual wave, so it moves. Which means to dodge it you have to dodge towards where it comes from.

[storm glen]

i mean worse comes to worst you just pause the game and write down the order

[tropic ravine]

dash is pretty forgiveable you can just walk to it and dash through

[nimble rivet]

That's what I did lol

[tropic ravine]

i reccomend dashing into a place you think its gona be , so if its wrong you have a chance for the i frames to save you

only if your not 100%

[fickle drum]

I remember playing a different game where players used to dodging into attacks in other games got owned because that's not how evasion works in that game. XD

And then I played a game that owned me because it punishes dodging away from an attack.

The safest place being inside the enemy's hitbox is counterintuitive to me lol.

Needless to say, Eris threw me for a loop for a while.

[nimble rivet]

Eris made me want to throw the controller at my screen

Truly, she is Strife Incarnate

[nova oar]

I never understood the eris hate

She used to be way harder back in the day

[red fox]

Tbf fighting eris more like fighting with the arena

[broken creek]

She also used to be invalidated by the old hestia dash lmfao

[storm glen]

she isnt hard but she isnt fun either

imo this kind of really punishing boss design needs to feel super good to be satisfying and eris is just awkward you have to fiddle with weird aoe indicators and is she going to stand in the fire or not and random adds

[nova oar]

I LOVE DENIAL

Just saved my run

[nimble rivet]

That's the one where you don't get skipped boons right?

[broken creek]

Yep, its lowkey goated since you can force boons depending on the luck

[fervent sundial]

Eris is sometimes jank when you're very close behind her and she hits you anyway

Some fights became easier when I started looking for the way the character model turns white (like her dash attack)

[nimble rivet]

You're getting hit by her head which is vibrating from the gun recoil

And since her head is but an empty coconut, it hurts a lot

[fickle drum]

Doesn't denial deny you boons you might want?

[nimble rivet]

If you get unlucky

[fervent sundial]

I take it you don't like her then.

[fickle drum]

I thought you always removed unchosen boons from the pool.

[fervent sundial]

Definitely not.

[fickle drum]

I thought it was like, when you choose a boon, the two other ones are removed?

[nimble rivet]

Nope

[fervent sundial]

With Denial, yes?
If that's what we're talking about

[red fox]

Well if you see 2 boon you want , you have to decide which you want more

[fickle drum]

And then you won't get another chance at the other two.

[red fox]

And you are not longer need to chase a deleted boon

[fervent sundial]

if it's a run without Denial then the same unchosen boons can be rolled later

[fickle drum]

Yeah I just don't see how denial translates to something good. Or how it only deleted boons when you're unlucky, or am I just looking through the wrong lens?

[fervent sundial]

Denial can be a good thing if it eliminates two useless boons, ofc

[red fox]

The bigger risk of denial is forgot what boon remains and forced to chose sac boon

[red fox]

It is a vow it ain't gonna be always positive

[fervent sundial]

Denial isn't meant to be good, it's a hindrance like all of the fear trials

[fickle drum]

What even happens if a god runs out of boons to give?

[fervent sundial]

You get money

[red fox]

It is just have a side effect to make boon choice more predictable later

[broken creek]

30$

[fervent sundial]

Literally it'll just offer you like 30 coins per region I think

so on Olympus it's 90

[broken creek]

You kinda end up not taking gods once youve gotten enough boons

Because otherwise you might force a bad trade or waste a room reward

[fickle drum]

Force a bad trade?

Can't you just take the one that isn't a sacrifice?

[nimble rivet]

Sacrificial boon that sacrifices something that you need

[red fox]

Forced sac boon because nothing else in pool

[broken creek]

If you already have an attack boon for example, and youve denialed everything but an attack boon from a different god you're forced to take it if its the only option

[nova oar]

its always 90

I love accidently taking strength and still winning

[fickle drum]

What are even the odds of that happening?

[broken creek]

More than you think since if a core is filled gods rarely offer trades as is

[red fox]

Pretty likely if you ain't careful and not running forfeit

[fervent sundial]

100%, if it's the only thing left in the pool

[fickle drum]

I thought using strength was something everyone always did.

[broken creek]

So it ends up being at the end of the pool most of the time

Hence why you stop taking gods in like region3 assuming your build is already live, I personally stop taking a god after like 3 of their boons unless I know im getting something guaranteed

[nova oar]

i was doing 45f surface vor4

Much nicer to have dd's and take pin

[honest kindle]

Man, hades 2 is much harder than Hades 1

I guess I can't remember to cast as much but still

[nova oar]

I disagree, once you get used to the mechanics it becomes easier

[hearty pumice]

As it turns out, turning the skull into a shotgun is really effective if you know how to hold down left click.

[honest kindle]

I think the main issue I have now compared to H1 is that I do not know what the good combos are, arcana cards, good aspects etc

I simply refuse to look up a guide or anything before finishing a run each side once

[nova oar]

That's your problem there then, once you get good the game is easier than the first

[hearty pumice]

Honestly? Just follow your heart. Don't weigh your options until you know what they are. I've found that, when you don't know what everything does, your best option is just to do whatever.

[nova oar]

Pretty much yeah

almost anything is viable at base difficulty

[honest kindle]

yeah I still got basics down from H1

Almost beat final boss at like 16 grasp but haven't gotten there anymore

I still dash too much though

[hearty pumice]

Like, I would've never taken the "unload all your shells at once" thing if I was weighing my options on a statistical level, but once I found out that the omega cast gets the same effect, it became one of my favorite upgrades so far.

[honest kindle]

yeah, I literally just got aspects available what, 10 runs ago ?

And last run, I got the ability to upgrade arcana cards

[nova oar]

What does wide grin have to do with ocast

[nova oar]

Would recommend going to #h2-for-new-players

[hearty pumice]

It unloads all the shells all the same during ocast, while still only using 10 magick. And even if it used 40, the speed alone is enough to draw me in, nuking larger enemies.

[red fox]

You said ocast

[hearty pumice]

Ah. Right.

Attack, not cast. Mmmm.

I am so good at english!

[nova oar]

Ah oattack, I never use it on skull tbh

[hearty pumice]

You should when it becomes a shotgun!

[red fox]

Wide grin oatk is fun

[hearty pumice]

Otherwise, yeah same here. Unless there's a latge crowd

[nova oar]

It's faster to just shotgun it normally but I see the appeal

[hearty pumice]

It at least felt stronger. Plus you get to drop nukes on people.

[grave gorge]

Why is rivals Chonos so much harder than Rivals Typhon? ("It's not, you're just bad at Chronos" not an acceptable answer)

(even though it's the correct answer)

[nova oar]

Uw bosses got a larger difficulty increase

[red fox]

It add entire phase and enhanced move on first 2 phase

[nova oar]

I'm too much of a speedrunner 😔

[red fox]

And mob has death effect on first phase

[hearty pumice]

Dam

Anyway, back to the abyss for me!

[honest kindle]

speaking of speedrun, is there the same, or similar heat system as H1

Game as speedrun-able, less ? more ?

[nova oar]

The heat system is called fear in this game, and it's just as speedrunable

[red fox]

Fear is less bs than heat too

But vor (like hades1 em) improve boss much more

[nova oar]

It's a bit easier too

[craggy totem]

There are some rather wacky speedrunning tactics in this game which didn't exist in the first Hades game, if that sort of thing is what you enjoy

Wacktics 🤔

[honest kindle]

alright sweet

slowly getting the hang of it, no hit cyclop

[wintry wharf]

Okay, imma soon start trying the Supreme, the Shiva the Destroyer ultimate build, an attempt to aim for it

For I have become Death, Destroyer of Worlds

Woon't go for J Pom RNG for now tho, hah

[honest kindle]

are boons guarded by minibosses more likely to be better or not ?

[crude dragon]

Because Rivals Chronos has new timings to basically everything

[crude dragon]

They have better rarity odds, yes

[crude dragon]

More, since you don't have to die to reset your seed

[maiden mirage]

Nem just made me die from an expiring curse. She was in one of the rooms and dropped an item without any fighting, and I ended up in the guardian fight with Hecate with nowhere near enough time to beat her. If Nem wasn't in that room, the curse would have been done with the fight before that.

[craggy totem]

As in, it didn't count as an encounter?

[nova oar]

It do be like that sometimes

[maiden mirage]

Exactly. It was the one where you only talk and she drops the small health upgrade

If it had been the contest for who killed more, I would have been fine

[nova oar]

what fear?

[maiden mirage]

None, trying to finish up the last few aspects for the list before I push any more fear runs

[nova oar]

ah

[brisk dirge]

I have been trying to get the polecat and dog........

[maiden mirage]

Must have been payback for kicking her butt in all the competitions so far

[brisk dirge]

Ouch. I haven't been getting the familiar dialogue from hecate

[wintry wharf]

Okay, 5598 hit on the postgame fight by area 2 is really satisfying hah, still about 1/5 of the full potential tho

[brisk dirge]

Woah that fast?????

[nova oar]

i need to get back into speedruns

beat my 5.30 pb

maybe do a sub 6 shiva

[brisk dirge]

That is a lot. What did you do to get that much

[nova oar]

my best is 9k with max shiva destruction and ares, what setup are you going for?

[wintry wharf]

Rn almost at end of Rift I got Heroic Aphro attack, Raki and Night for regular crits, got Epic Mutual Destruction, aiming for Heph legendary for +2 stacks of Destructive, got Epic Secret Crush, gonna aim for Demeter's Weed Killer, gonna get Fleece area 4. Sadly I didn't get World Collider yet from first hammer, just Reaper Frame

[buoyant matrix]

yeah never take an expiring curse late into the biome, it's particularly dangerous in oceanus

[crude dragon]

Or if you do, pray you find some armor to tank the hit for you

[wintry wharf]

Okay, right before Prometheus, second hammer had Chakra Collider for Power Shot, sadly no World but still, acceptable, aaand activated Tall Order too

Okay, got a 8040 vs Prom, still not the best...

Ugh, didn't even hit 9k, that sucked despite so many things going well, I just couldn't get a single Critical Crit at 8 Destructive on a Wounded Foe inside a cast

[nova oar]

rough

[wintry wharf]

Yeeeah, I hoped it'd go better, I had about everything else I could ask for, I just needed a double crit

[maiden mirage]

I think I paid Nem back for screwing me over. She just challenged me in Oceanus, and there were a bunch of those pinheads. I beat her 97 to 1. Lmao

[craggy totem]

I've had some bad Scylla fights but haven't exercised any caution about Expiring. RNG spared me lol

[tidal cliff]

pinhead rooms without a cast boon are so miserable

[craggy totem]

High Surf 🫡

[maiden mirage]

Who needs a cast boon when you have High Surf and Nexus Rush?

[thin laurel]

tbh who needs a boon on your cast to keep you safe 🤷
just cast for crowd control + rely on any form of AoE and you're good to go

hitch, flash fry, high surf yeah, static shock, even gusts can kinda shred since their HP is so low

the naked cast (gasp how scandalous 😳) is pretty powerful vs stuff like fish and wailers

[tidal cliff]

Most the time if you get unlucky in Erebus and don’t get many boons then I have like 3 boons by Oceanus and I don’t have that type of aoe😭

[thin laurel]

I mean I feel you, I do a lot of high fear erebus and then you get even fewer boons but still, raw cast is pretty good at dealing with them

I guess some weapons have very little innate AoE, but for me those usually make me worry about wards so I prioritize getting some sort of solution ASAP, and stuff which is good for wards tends to be good vs fish as well

[maiden mirage]

The first 10 seconds of every fight is insane. Hydraulic Might got the buff from Heroic Bridal Vow. It's now a level 5 Heroic Hydraulic Might that gives me +250% damage for the first 10 seconds of an encounter. Lmao

[thin laurel]

I kinda love the built in synergy of boons like that
hydraulic might + security system + flood gain? you have infinite magick, don't need to worry about getting hit, and do a ton more damage for the first 10 seconds of a fight
and then you have a duo boon open to decrease flood gain downtime if you want

[noble sapphire]

. . polyphemus has green-blue hair cause he's a son of poseidon doesnt he

i just thought about it

[craggy totem]

If you have Heavy Metal along with it, you kind of have double Hydraulic Might

Those two sure work together well, huh?

[nimble rivet]

I got a clang run

[tropic ravine]

First sub 7 run

6:48

[nimble rivet]

but then lost to eris' bs rivals hitboxes

[tropic ravine]

Max frenzy is sooooo worth it

[nimble rivet]

congratulations!

[nova oar]

Peak

[tropic ravine]

Ty

[buoyant matrix]

based frenzy pilled

[nova oar]

What aspect?

[tropic ravine]

Medea

[tropic ravine]

1. Spawns enemies faster and 2. Chronos invulnerability in some moves run out quickly

Im used to most of the timings tbh

[nimble rivet]

i got heroic heph attack with seismic servo and chain reaction

but i lost health in a very stupid way to polyphemus

lost all three dd's 😭

[nova oar]

Pizza does not need frenzy explained lmaooo

[red fox]

But someone else might

[buoyant matrix]

he's really enthusiastic about it bruh let him go on 😔

[tropic ravine]

“ Even the most skilled masters revise the small steps, for the mind, body, and spirit puts their weight on them. “ - kung fu panda

[nova oar]

I feel like that doesn't apply here

[tropic ravine]

I made that up

[buoyant matrix]

nah let him cook

[fervent sundial]

His grab attack catches me off guard sometimes because he hardly ever uses it

[tropic ravine]

“ porky pig with a shotgun is a very wise person and is always right “ - chronos

Told you

[nova oar]

As a martial artist I agree that it applies to kung fu but you don't need to revise smth if you just know it

[buoyant matrix]

i had to turn frenzy off for my ally damage farming run

terrible experience would not recommend

[nimble rivet]

normal grab is ez to dodge but istg the rivals grab is 2x faster

[nova oar]

Rivals grab is the same

[nimble rivet]

it's a skill issue then

doesn't matter i will always keep coming back

[fervent sundial]

To the game?

[nimble rivet]

they made a mistake when they put prometheus on the persistence arcana card

it is actually supposed to be a picture of me

[nova oar]

Bars 😭

[fervent sundial]

I've only had the game a few days and I've lost count of the number of times I've quit for good

[nova oar]

Why?

[fervent sundial]

Rage, obviously

[nova oar]

Ah

[craggy totem]

All this Hades brain got me looking at "FH" and thinking "Fates' Hwim"

[worldly galleon]

giga moonburst goes kinda hard on momus apparently

also, summons really do an insane amount of damage, wow.

[craggy totem]

Someone was saying the other day that resurrected summons have a builtin damage boost and deal more damage to enemies than they would have done to you

[worldly galleon]

that much I can see with the numbers, but they also seem to move and attack much faster

[craggy totem]

There are upgrades for it, but I can't speak as to whether they have builtin boosts for that too without upgrades

[fervent sundial]

Yeah it's a ton more

[worldly galleon]

It could be different for the duo vs the selene upgrade

I had both, but I never got took any path of stars, and it at least seemed that they attacked much faster

[fervent sundial]

The summons are my first choice every time

[red fox]

Ofc they are doing more dmg to enemy than to mel, summon doing like 10 dmg per hit isn't appealing

[craggy totem]

I just appreciate that they make the model of the resurrected enemy way bigger rather than only putting an effect on it, cos no way I'd be able to distinguish them fast enough otherwise lol

Yes, well, slow attack speed isn't appealing but axe exists

[red fox]

Thats why i don't play axe except charon

[fervent sundial]

The omega attack is pretty fast

[worldly galleon]

the omega attack is what makes the axe appealing, but tbh I don't understand what the point of the special is at all.

[nova oar]

On nergal maybe

[fervent sundial]

The special with armor shattering is three hits which is pretty good

[worldly galleon]

sure, but the block is really hard to use, and the channel is so slow that it feels difficult to use the omega

[broken glen]

omega special on nergal is... fine. It works. Regular special doesn't have wards breaking utility though

[nova oar]

Special is useful for cancelling the attack sequence

[red fox]

Special for shredding ward and reset atk sequence

[fervent sundial]

and its range can be increased

[nova oar]

You typically play axe by using dash strike and special the whole run

[broken glen]

unless you get psychic whirlwind

[worldly galleon]

Kind of underwhelming but maybe I should try it that way. I just kind of end up dash striking and omega attacking

[craggy totem]

I have beef with Psychic Whirlwind for feeling so deeply unsatisfying

[worldly galleon]

I like seeing big damage number go up

[broken glen]

it's just too free. It's like the equivalent of a legendary boon for a hammer

[craggy totem]

For me it's more that the amount of channel time for axe omega attack vs the amount of time you're actually omega attacking feels terrible in the first place, and then there's this hammer that makes it so that it's Optimal ™ to be doing that all the time

I resent this

[broken glen]

Like cool I guess I'm a blender now. The swings are a bit more satisfying on Nergal since it's easier to loop and the hits feel more chunky, but it makes gameplay so boring

[craggy totem]

It should be illegal for gameplay tactics that I personally don't enjoy to be optimal

[worldly galleon]

blending is cool though

[broken glen]

It's fun for a bit, but "thanatos/nergal run where I cycle omega attack and everything dies" gets boring after a while

same with trick knives. I've had so much more fun with pan since I've stopped taking it

[worldly galleon]

🤷‍♂️ the "optimal" builds can get repetitive because they're optimal, but I don't mind it.

[craggy totem]

No, I enjoy plenty of optimal or in-the-neighborhood-of-optimal tactics on other aspects

[broken glen]

I mean it's less even in the boon selections and moreso just that I'm pressing the same button repeatedly. Very braindead

[craggy totem]

Not all optimal tactics are created equal, are far as enjoyability for any given individual (subjective) or variability (objective)

[worldly galleon]

No I understood what you were saying.

[rotund comet]

i finally figured out how to modify my resource tracking spreadsheet to work without exposing contents of the game your not introduced to (well, mostly)

so far i have a very basic system where when you mark tarot as unlocked, it knows which tarot is now visible and automatically adds that section to the table

[worldly galleon]

to be honest, I like using all of the weapons and most of the aspects, though I prefer the old torches a bit. So idk, the only thing I find unsatisfying is the omega's that take too long to charge (like axe omega spec, or whatnot). So I can't really relate that much to finding anything "unsatisfying" 🤷‍♂️

[dire coyote]

is the devs here, can they please make the hades 2 on sale this december please

before i will be busy next year, i badly need this game on sale

[tropic ravine]

yeah sure ill ask them tommorow

[craggy totem]

Whether they do or don't will have absolutely nothing to do with a random Discord user asking for a sale

[dire coyote]

both preferably

[tropic ravine]

yueah why not

[echo heath]

I'll ask, my uncle works at Supergiant

[red fox]

Hades 2 just went on sales before recently

[tropic ravine]

my dad is actually hades

[rotund comet]

tomorrow i just gotta modify it to have a checkbox for upgrading your cards/dynamically updating your descriptor and requirements to upgrade, then add the section for grasp upgrades.

does that really offer anything significant? not yet, BUT if i can expand that structure for weapons and invocations......

[red fox]

Damn we have zag here

[dire coyote]

there is definitely a sched for sales right? why no sale december?

[nova oar]

Yeah wasn't it for sale a couple weeks ago

[nova oar]

We have no idea dawg

[tropic ravine]

brotato its not even that expensive

[broken glen]

One sec gonna get Greg on the phone rq

[tropic ravine]

half the price of tripole a

but there might be a christmas sale

[nova oar]

True that

[red fox]

Less than 1/3 price of AAA here lol

[echo heath]

Hades 2 is also still relatively new, so it's possible that it'll stay normal price for a little while?

[tropic ravine]

true

[echo heath]

Idk, I'd simply pay whatever because it's worth

[tropic ravine]

if you go to isthereanydeal and check regurlarly you might be able to get a discount

[echo heath]

Bought it once on Steam during EA, bought again for Switch 2

[nova oar]

Mine is 40 dollars compared to 120 aaa

[broken glen]

...if you want a cheap SG game, pyre, transistor, and bastion are all cheaper than the hades series (and great games!)

[tropic ravine]

@dire coyote 20% off on epic games

[craggy totem]

Also, for the young folks in here: in any company big enough to have separate departments, which Supergiant is these days, the software developers are generally not the ones making business decisions.

[rotund comet]

well, the point is even with the reminder invocation helping ya out, its nice to be able to see exactly which resource your gunning for the most

[tropic ravine]

where do i buy them

steam?