h2-discussion

[wide osprey]

also how is pan doing these days?

[lucid bronze]

not great

[spare tinsel]

i do not like Pan ngl

[wide osprey]

I prefer Ares special and Hera cast

[lucid bronze]

if poseidon icd gets removed (it should) hel and pan will become a lot better

[spare tinsel]

icd?

[lucid bronze]

and the pan nerfs + hammer changes mean it shouldn’t be a tactical nuke any more

[lucid bronze]

internal cooldown

poseidon waves have a pretty small cooldown before they can trigger again

which affects pretty much nothing except for hel and pan

[wide osprey]

Im guessing like
if hel attacks 3 times in 1 second
poseidon waves only get triggered once?

[spare tinsel]

probably smaller timeframe than that but yeah

[lucid bronze]

for hel about 2/3 of hits will splash

for pan about 1/2

coat rockets depends

nothing else is really affected

[pale wave]

Idk if this is the place to ask but do we know if the game will be on a Game-Key Card on NS2

[lucid bronze]

unless you go for some poseidon axe oattack build

with apollo leg

[spare tinsel]

i had a run a while where i had Blitz on coat special with the Duo that makes Omega Damage instantly trigger blitz, the dps is crazy

[wide osprey]

I wonder if they balance the cooldown around the apolo leg

which is kinda dumb

[lucid bronze]

no its definitely around pan and hel

apollo leg poseidon attack axe is just a bit silly

also they allow seething marauder to work

[wide osprey]

whats that?

[fossil echo]

What balance changes does everyone want to see next week? I'm hoping for some ares buffs!

[lucid bronze]

axe hammer that does 60 damage in an area after every hit

works with every hit of omega attack

so with Apollo legendary it’s 1200 damage

[wide osprey]

Ares buffs
Pan and Hel buffs
maybe a tweak to the morrigan knives (the one with the blood triad)
some poseidon buffs would be nice
some Hera nerfs Im expecting

[lucid bronze]

bring back mortal gain lowkey

if poseidon icd is removed pan and hel are fine

[wide osprey]

what was that?

[lucid bronze]

the rest i think are ok right now

[lucid bronze]

born gain but primes health instead of magic

also the health primed was always the same but magic restored would scale with rarity/poms instead of all of your magic

it would also make pan better

decent gain that’s an arterial spray prereq

[cinder gorge]

Bring back axe parry

[wide osprey]

how?

[lucid bronze]

#h2-discussion message

[wide osprey]

but like
poseidon attack ares special

[cinder gorge]

Also

You know what? Nevermind..

[wide osprey]

I wonder broken blood spree would be if the health was changed to 60 or 80 instead of 40

[cinder gorge]

If you used that with strength you'd essentially be immortal

Proobably staying at 40

[buoyant matrix]

trick knives situation gets fixed, ares getting a few buffs

[lucid bronze]

yes that’s the hel build I’m talking about pan

if you want arterial spray on pan the gain dash and cast are all kinda bad for it while the attack is fine but you’re not using it

[short raft]

also how do i backstab with knifes on typhon?

[spare tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386625846409953281/1417478530442199161/image.png?ex=68caa141&is=68c94fc1&hm=5f81d2a11f47fd032311db702ea3df334a0fc82fd6dc0f20bb555b9cd5c1e5d9&

what am i missing and how have i not encountered it yet wtf

[lucid bronze]

you don’t ❤️

[cinder gorge]

Big fish I think?

[buoyant matrix]

only the special

[buoyant matrix]

that's the yargonaut

[humble urchin]

the other thessaly mini boss

i forgot his name

[cinder gorge]

Wait.. there's 2 now?

[spare tinsel]

theres another in thessaly wtf???

[lucid bronze]

just rng

keep doing runs

[buoyant matrix]

yes, thessaly wardens are charbydeez and yargonaut

[spare tinsel]

i havent even seen Charibdis in like 30 runs

[lucid bronze]

I don’t think there’s any prereqs

[cinder gorge]

How is charybdis after the nerfs btw

[buoyant matrix]

just rng yeah

[cinder gorge]

She used to appear in every single surface run

[spare tinsel]

i still hate Charybdis

[cinder gorge]

Nowadays its like once/20

[lucid bronze]

a lot more bearable

[cinder gorge]

Istg old charybdis was harder than prometheus

[spare tinsel]

The arena is way too big and the tentacles just LOVE to spawn on the complete opposite side every time

[cinder gorge]

though I still think prom didn't need any nerfs after the initial one that slowed his homing missiles

[short raft]

Ok, but i didt BS him with my normal attack tho

i saw it pop like 7 times

[wide osprey]

I hope we get more buffs than nerfs

[orchid acorn]

only regular special

[orchid acorn]

there is only like 3 justifiable nerfs possible atm, and none of them were heph special like shown in the trailer

[cinder gorge]

I wonder how they'll expand on Chaos Trials

As things stand there isn't really any incentive to doing them

[wide osprey]

wait what are they?

[orchid acorn]

trick knives
medea
posessed array

[short raft]

Okay, no.
If you have the backstab knifes, AND position yourself looking away from thypon WHILE still hitting him with the hitbox, it will backstab.

[orchid acorn]

? wat

[cinder gorge]

Wack

There's no way that works

[short raft]

i just did it lol

[orchid acorn]

i know theres a bug where if you have the like apollo extra range you can sometimes cheese it

but i don't recall that being possible baseline

[cinder gorge]

That would imply backstab proccing based on Mel's facing direction rather than the enemy's

[buoyant matrix]

possessed array has a mid pickrate it's ok now

[orchid acorn]

its finicky, it goes off the like first possible hit for it. Some weapons start the hitbox around where mel is standing, even behind her in the case of staff

since you can't hit the enemy multiple times per attack(excluding stuff like the dobuel hit boon from apollo or stuff that specifically is multi hit) if the hitbox used is the one behind mel it can work which is why apollo works

[short raft]

well it works for the Backstab blades, go and try it lol

[orchid acorn]

go record a video of it im too lazy to boot the game until 1.0 for anything gameplay related

[short raft]

my pc aint dat good to record videos

[orchid acorn]

cause afaik when i tested a long time ago you could only do it with apollo in specific angles + the regular special return + pan if you curve the knife off the map

but that required stuff like apollo for pan too

i know cause i've been hard complaining about how mel blades is a level 0 aspect vs the final boss since warsong

[wide osprey]

Poseidon's legendary hates me

[orchid acorn]

just put on excellence and get the placebo boost

[buoyant matrix]

boated managed to get it in ephyra once

[short raft]

My crusade for Renewed Faith continues 6 weeks in

[buoyant matrix]

???

[cinder gorge]

You know the best part of 1.0?

[orchid acorn]

tbh i often get the legendary in ephyra when im actively seeking it

[cinder gorge]

We'll finally be able to unlock the ability to PET THE DOG

[wide osprey]

wat dat

[buoyant matrix]

run dds, lose them all in region 2, take gorgon amulet to region 3, burn through all rerolls

[orchid acorn]

excellence gives a 5% boost to legendaries per slot

[short raft]

Ok

[orchid acorn]

i call it placebo cause its functionally useless

well not actually useless but basically is

[buoyant matrix]

i wanna see what's going to be placed next to hermes shrines on the surface

[orchid acorn]

i can't wait for that to get thanos snapped at 1.0

"oops we forgot to delete that"

[buoyant matrix]

I've considered that lol

[orchid acorn]

they're gonna reorganize all of surface transition rooms like they did for Ephyra final shop

threw me off so much

[buoyant matrix]

ephyra endshop used to be different?

[orchid acorn]

same room different layout for the shop selling stuff

[short raft]

Zagreus purge shop confirmed

[buoyant matrix]

making river styx flow on the surface?

how and why would that happen 🤔

[short raft]

"Honor system"

[buoyant matrix]

it's gonna be something typhon related trust

[orchid acorn]

pre unseen( i think?) https://imgur.com/ZuiJpNS

post unseen https://imgur.com/PQFSVmq

[wide osprey]

SUPERGIANT
LET ME PLAY AS ZAG IN HADES 2 AND MY LIFE WILL BE YOURS!

[orchid acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-cat-smol-small-ragey-gif-26398063

[buoyant matrix]

looked like it currently does in warsong

[cinder gorge]

Adamant rail...

[buoyant matrix]

must be olympic and before

[orchid acorn]

i forgot when it changed

just know it did

[buoyant matrix]

good change

[short raft]

In truest i hope its a DLC

[orchid acorn]

it aint happening bro

closest you'll get is the mod that lets mel play hades 1

[wide osprey]

I would buy it

[wide osprey]

THE COPE WILL WIN!

[orchid acorn]

im anti that dlc cause i think its stupid af

but im pro that dlc cause its content and that means we would get post launch support for the current balance probably

im torn

[short raft]

They already have access to Sword and Gun animations and assests in game, so ehhhh

[buoyant matrix]

there will be no dlc

[orchid acorn]

agree, but anything that gives me potential for post launch big balance changes would be nice

[buoyant matrix]

trick knives won't change, medea won't get nerfed, ares won't be buffed, and there is no tooth fairy

[wide osprey]

we get free dlc cause supergiant is the goat

[orchid acorn]

there is NO way at minimum medea cast bug isn't fixed

[orchid acorn]

though i guess that is more of a zeus/hestia bug at this point than medea

cause its their code that is messed up letting medea apply to them

[buoyant matrix]

it's melinover pronto, let it go

[orchid acorn]

ares not gettng buffed i can see
trick knives not getting nerfed i can see
i can even see medea not getting nerfed

honestly now that it think about it wide grin hasn't been fixed, hearty appetite still has pre buff values cause they only changed the visual number....

it is melinover after all

[buoyant matrix]

pronto... you have to let it go man...

[short raft]

why is ares bad?

Like, is he unplayable bad?

[slim pike]

Everyone else is better, and he's trying to juggle three different techs

[buoyant matrix]

wounds is niche and only works on a few aspects, plasma needs too much dedication to be good, blades need too much dedication to be good

[slim pike]

the best thing Ares does is his two double damage sources

[orchid acorn]

his magick is, but even that is saved by his legendary kinda

but then you need a legendary to make a core boon work

not even GOOD, just work

[short raft]

Ok yeah his magic is bad, i only use it on Attack Speed builds and see the mana as a bonus

[slim pike]

he has some standout duos that can really help, but you kinda need to build into them

[orchid acorn]

the tldr for ares is that

• He is split between 3 different focuses, falling blades, wounds and blood drops
• falling blades has literally zero synergy with his other boons, outside of generic double damage and olympian damage infusion
• wounds is a mid mechanic only good for one shots and heinous affront(which is actually good!)
• blood drops do nothing, are hard to see on the ground, require you to pick them up and are capped at 100 now.
• attack speed interacts differently on all different weapons due to internal caps and diminishing returns
• movement speed past a certain point is actually negative for your character cause you'll run into stuff with a hard to control cahracter

[slim pike]

Got heph and apollo on the run? gotta run damocles' swords

[orchid acorn]

and even that got nerfed for some reason

with him dropping less blades

[slim pike]

and they're not a curse

[orchid acorn]

would it even matter if they applied wounds innately

like i don't think so

[buoyant matrix]

imagine 1.0 drops and they give ares a hestia tier glow up 😳

[slim pike]

(even though internally, the old style Doom is set up properly in the code, even to not proc origination with wounds)

[hard latch]

can we expect steam achievements to be added or do we not know?

[orchid acorn]

the achievements were accidentally added a few weeks ago

[buoyant matrix]

they've already been leaked lol

[hard latch]

oh cool

[orchid acorn]

unless they add more we already know all... 49? achievements

[hard latch]

i love me my achievement hunting

[slim pike]

Yeah, to get steam achievements, you first need to get posideon and hestia's duo boon

[orchid acorn]

most aren't even hunting tbh, they are just "play the game" style achievements

[buoyant matrix]

it's a little grindy with two difficult ones, you'll have a lot of fun 👍

[orchid acorn]

which really sucks and i hope they revamped them since the accidental reveal

but i know they haven't.

[hard latch]

i just finished silksong achievement farming, i need more to farm, hades 2 coming at the perfect time

[orchid acorn]

for example hades 1 had "beat tartarus/asphodel etc"

Hades 2 has twice the regions, so twice those type of achievements

with 1 less total achievement than hades 1

(assuming nothing else is added)

[hard latch]

gimme double hades 1 achievs

[orchid acorn]

didn't happen but i wish they did

they even have a "get all other achievements" achievement that hades 1 didnt have except on playstation 😭

-1 total achievement for that alone

[hard latch]

oh boo

[orchid acorn]

but yeah its like 80% filler "do X story plot incantation" "beat X region" achievements, with a few good ones that aren't like.... naturally obtained

[slim pike]

ehhh, I dunno about the silly-challenge cheevos you sometimes see

(don't get me started on RoR2' gameplay-tied achievements for doing really obscure things)

[hard latch]

i think those are fun

[orchid acorn]

theres a line to be drawn

and hades 2 is like at the starting line for most

[slim pike]

not when you get one shot per run to do something like "finish off the final boss with this weak lw damage move in a game where you have a lot of passive sources"

[orchid acorn]

for example the most "out there" achievement in hades 2 is probably the bring a dress to chronos one

more like that would be fine

[slim pike]

that's a gameplay challenge for playing well

[buoyant matrix]

bandit?

[slim pike]

not deliberately doing things badly

[hard latch]

is that like the delicate flower equivalent for hk?

[slim pike]

False Son AND Captain

and bandit, yes

[orchid acorn]

@flat glacier btw sorry for the ping but was there any update on that i asked you like last week. Still a no on the posting them?

[hard latch]

i just get dopium when i see the little steam achievement thing in the corner, loved isaac quite a bit for it

[buoyant matrix]

i highly doubt you can post them until the 1.0 launch

[orchid acorn]

yeah it was just conflicting info cause originaly it wasn't a problem but then it got deleted and he said he would check

figure mod chat discussed it by now otherise ill just default to "no posting them"

[flat glacier]

whoops, sorry, i knew something got lost in the juggle. i think the official judgment came down on the side of not discussing them for the time being 🫡

[orchid acorn]

😔 ok

[slim pike]

stop taking a leak on the SGG discord

[orchid acorn]

including text then?

[hard latch]

is this in relations to the thing you mentioned being an achievement?

[orchid acorn]

ye just wasn't a "leak" since its not datamining

was officially uploaded which is where the confusion was at originally

[orchid acorn]

yeah

[slim pike]

still an ooopsie

[orchid acorn]

wasn't against the rules as cited tho since it wasn't "a product of datamining" but mods ruled now

[slim pike]

And I wanted to make a pun

[orchid acorn]

im about to pun-ch you

[flat glacier]

generally the rulings tend to fall along the lines of "if it's in the game and accessible to players, it's okay; otherwise please do not", and since the list got removed it no longer falls under that first part

is my logic, anyways.

[orchid acorn]

fair enough

[slim pike]

We shall await the moment we boot the game and see (hopefully) a massive tower of achievements as the game back-checks what we've done already

[orchid acorn]

me when hades 2 launches with 200 achievements

[buoyant matrix]

most of them are repeatable actually

[slim pike]

yes, but still

[buoyant matrix]

so you gotta do them again

[hard latch]

tf2 or isaac amount of achievements

[slim pike]

that is too many

[buoyant matrix]

imagine a trophy for each path with each aspect, 48

[orchid acorn]

when i did a visual check like half of them were likely retroactive tbh

with another like 25% MAYBE being retroactive

just technically repetable but theoretically the game has the data for it in files

remainder was stuff literally not in the game or not tracked at all

(or needed more info to really be sure like get all keepsakes)

[buoyant matrix]

anyway, trick knives amirite

[orchid acorn]

an achievement for trick knives

"you win"

[buoyant matrix]

achievement for losing a run with trick knives

harder than a 50 fear run

[orchid acorn]

"world first"

[short raft]

Given your feedback, i made this up as a unifier.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/616448079788507146/1417489858003341396/image.png?ex=68caabcd&is=68c95a4d&hm=a26eb4cb2d774f3f27b54ae2325a0dc53293ffe89eb0ab9040699e55c6073f31&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1168&height=293

[orchid acorn]

just throw that on the legendary and make the auto succ basekit

gg ares is good now

though up to 500% damage is insane wtf

my concept was like 2 blood drops = 1 power

so assuming max blood drops which you'd only get at boss fights you get +50 power on wounds and swords

[buoyant matrix]

making his entire kit get stronger with blood drops would by funny

[short raft]

Yeah lol

im bad at balancing but the idea is good

[buoyant matrix]

grrr I'm so excited for 1.0

why is there still 9 days left

[orchid acorn]

Like my ideal ares rebalance is probably

• Profuse bleeding is now a basekit wounds feature, so hitting wounded enemies can spawn plasma
• Auto succ of plasma is now basekit
• Ares magick now restores 30 magick per plasma
• New T2 boon that doubles the power of plasma
• Ares legendary now adds base power to attacks/specials at some ratio per blood drop.

[short raft]

go and watch One piece, when u come back Hades 3 will be annoucet

[slim pike]

Kinda funny, remembering H1 Ares

[buoyant matrix]

have already read the whole thing

[slim pike]

you'd think his legendary would focus on Doom, since that's his main curse, but no, it centres on bladestorms

and in that game he seemed to have two separate skill trees that didn't cross over. so in H2 he gets three

[buoyant matrix]

the actual ares legendary was merciful end

[orchid acorn]

its still funny ares has two apollo duo boons

[slim pike]

Most frustrating pre-reqs to get

[buoyant matrix]

???

[short raft]

Uhhh???

[slim pike]

why couldn't I use divine dash to get Merciful end?

[short raft]

op

[buoyant matrix]

it was like that in h1 early access and they removed that because it was way too strong

[orchid acorn]

Heinous affront is a light smite duo boon, divine vengeance is worthless

[slim pike]

Henoius affront is kinda there if you use visceral impact or divine vengeance, but light smite....

[orchid acorn]

the joke is that its not a zeus duo boon

[buoyant matrix]

same reason why tidal dash didn't open sea storm

[cinder gorge]

Why were blood drops changed to plasma anyway

[orchid acorn]

multiple theories

[buoyant matrix]

probably chinese age restriction system

[orchid acorn]

theres the ratings consideration, but the game still has other mentions of blood

[cinder gorge]

Of course..

[slim pike]

Also ares was made less red in that same patch iirc

[orchid acorn]

then theres the gameplay consideration, cause small little red dots were incredibly hard to see in the game

[cinder gorge]

I find plasma harder to see than blood honestly

[slim pike]

red is the enemy attack colour

[orchid acorn]

small yellow dots are marginally better and aren't as easily confused with enemy attacks

but it was an improvement generally

main issue still is that they are insanely hard to collect without the auto succ

[slim pike]

(I still get thrown by Blade Ring looking like an enemy AoE, shush)

[cinder gorge]

Well, I guess it does in a way

[slim pike]

especially if you have supernova

[cinder gorge]

trial of the gods when you upset Ares

[slim pike]

I tend not to upset ares, I find his one of the harder to deal with

[buoyant matrix]

ares is legit the worst god to make angry

[cinder gorge]

Only fitting hah

[slim pike]

tbh he seems to be the least offended by you doing so

[cinder gorge]

He's not playing around

[slim pike]

"If X, then Y" kind of attitude

[acoustic ruin]

i still think hera is way worse, for me atleast

[cinder gorge]

My headcannon is he's just happy you gave him a reason to blow off some steam

[orchid acorn]

wait we mean ingame? yeah hera is cancer

[slim pike]

Oh how times have changed.

[orchid acorn]

ares is a joke lowkeyt

[slim pike]

For the longest time Hera was a free pick to upset

[orchid acorn]

heph feels like he has a half second to react to the circle or get clang'd

zeus is free
apollo is like easier heph

[cinder gorge]

Heph is pretty tame

[orchid acorn]

heph circles spawn VERY fast and frequent

[slim pike]

apollo has smaller circles, but more of them

Demeter is the opposite, but oooof that's a problem in small rooms

[orchid acorn]

he isn't like.... hera tier but heph hits me often cause i want to think i have a moment to attack but circle>circle>Circle

yeah demeter is just long lasting area denial not hard but annoying in some rooms

good design imo

[polar abyss]

Demeter is annoying if you have Return though

Iirc, they will not despawn if they are in the gusts of Demeter

[slim pike]

we think Hera is hard now? Hrm. I guess I'm not frenzypilled enough to really feel what they're like at their worst

[orchid acorn]

yeah cause i believe the anti return zone is set in the mapper

and demeter AOE isn't like a preset thing

maps never change, demeter targeting does. i don't think anything has that property that isn't static?

barrel throwers in ephyra make fire, does that delete return revs/

[slim pike]

it's the same "out of bounds" that causes skulls and plasma to auto track I guess

[marsh spear]

9 days

[slim pike]

and causes room rewards to magnetise towards mel if they spawn there for some reason

[marsh spear]

That reminds me of the Kingdom Hearts Magnet spell

[slim pike]

does it make you more attractive?

[short raft]

Reminder: Magnet gloves bad

[slim pike]

Otherwise known as the Talos Principle

[short raft]

Like i love how thats his only attack

[marsh spear]

Pulls enemies into an orb over you

[slim pike]

Did you really want Talos to have the same flurry punch that prometheus has?

[orchid acorn]

yes

god olympus was such a good region addition

even when it was hard it was actually goated. great music, great boss, decent enemy design even if some were suspicious like spinners with invulnerability

then.... summit was added 🤢

[short raft]

why summit bad? usually its over before i get annoyed by it

[orchid acorn]

its not that its hard, or annoying like Elysium in h1 was its just .... sucks as a region

the rooms end in 5 seconds, minibosses are cool but you only get 2 rewards and the region is over in like 1 minute

no multiple waves of enemies like other regions have, you just one shot the like 5 enemies that spawned in the room and then take the door

usually before the tail can even slam down and you hear it do it mid animation

[short raft]

would it surprise you if Nemesis/Zagreus was summits NPC?

[acoustic ruin]

Nem wouldnt be on summit at all i would say, because she despises mel for going "upwards" at all

[orchid acorn]

nemesis aint happening period

Zag is incredibly unlikely but theoretically could appear - but summit doesn't HAVE SPACE for a npc

the region is 6(?) rooms long, you kinda can't just skip a room lmao

[slim pike]

"take NPC instead of miniboss room" <- balance descisions of a madman

[acoustic ruin]

well they could just replace hermes at the end

[orchid acorn]

at most you could argue for an encounter like how aretmis/nemesis to appear with zag or something

but thats not really... a "NPC room"

[short raft]

better than nothing

[orchid acorn]

honestly extending athena random chances to spawn at summit wouldn't even be a bad suggestion

[slim pike]

The monkey paw would've been for ares to be the NPC of the area

and we all got surprised by him being a full boon giver

[orchid acorn]

wish feedback was open so i could post about natural athena in summit now 🥀

[orchid acorn]

surprised
aw hell nah

i was EXPECTING him to be a full god

[slim pike]

I wasn't after what happened to atemis, dio and athena

[orchid acorn]

hell i was EXPECTING one of athena/dio to be a full god too

one of them getting sidelined i was positive was gonna happen, and i was team dio for that since he was always hippie no fighting in h1

but athena becoming an encounter was 🥀

[slim pike]

but... maybe I understand why they wouldn't want to do that. given experiences with other games

[orchid acorn]

if ares was made into a NPC i would become death

i would've wrote a copypasta on the level of that chinese guy complaining about hephestus

[slim pike]

Blazblue Entropy Effect cribs a lot from Hades-like progression, but it has WAY TOO MANY upgrades

6 tactics trees, each with like, 5 subtrees, each with their own duo skills with specific other skills in other trees

and... they're just kinda bad, you generally only ever want the "Potential" upgrades, which there's also loads of and actually make the game more fun

There's very little design space left for 3 more full boon givers

[orchid acorn]

athena could've mostly been imported 1-1

[short raft]

Super Monkeys pawns: It's Tartarus again but in the Summit, but Zagreus comes to help instead and thats how they add more rooms

[orchid acorn]

dio had overlap with hestia which is another reason why i figured he'd be sidelined

i expected more of a blade rift focus from ares

but what we got was cool thematically even if balanced not as good

[slim pike]

Athena's design was built around a lot more in H1 I feel

[orchid acorn]

heinouis affront prob my favorite build in the game

[slim pike]

Artemis would need a new gimmick or two, seeing as core boons in genreal are more diverse in H2

there was a severe case of "Your X does Y% more damage and inflicts status curse Z" as core boon design in H1

[orchid acorn]

idk i wish artemis could appear like twice per night

rarely

[slim pike]

Concave stone?

heh, here's a way to add more revenge boons to the game

just have Nemesis give you one as a boon, from a selection of different conditions

so you can't load up on them, but you get some variety

Let's be honest, if anyone woud give you a revenge boon, it's Nemesis

(or just make her keepsake do that idk)

[lucid bronze]

true but casts are kinda the exception

we need crystal beams in h2 please sgg

[pallid cradle]

We do not need the meme cast in Hades 2. If you wanna play a bad cast, play Ares.

[slim pike]

H1 casts were a mess of different mutual exclusivities though

[lucid bronze]

surely this will not make the visual clarity problems worse

[slim pike]

We have that

[lucid bronze]

although to be fair to sgg h2 clarity is a lot better than it used to be

[slim pike]

It's literally lunar ray prominence

[orchid acorn]

at a certain point you just loop into isaac visual clarity where you don't care whats on the screen cause you win anyway

[pallid cradle]

I bought hellclock the other day and that's the point I'm already at in that game.

Screen is a mess of visual effects? Don't care, I'm the only thing left alive when it's over.

[marsh spear]

Concave stone would be better if it could be activated on command

[orchid acorn]

it sure would, cause that means it gets another scaling mechanic and that alone is a buff probably

1/2/3 extra boons per night can be selected would be peak

might cross into crash territory on surface though

[wide socket]

dodge and daze based build is pretty bad right?

[pallid cradle]

I've never selected that keepsake. Can it select a swap boon?

[orchid acorn]

yes

just don't take it when you can be swapped 4head

[lucid bronze]

or it rarifies the boon to common/rare/epic/heroic

[orchid acorn]

its one of my go-tos

[pallid cradle]

Tbh that makes this keepsake even better lmao.

[orchid acorn]

if i have aphro+zeus guess what its a dodge build game

[marsh spear]

☀️ 🔥

[orchid acorn]

wispy wiles my beloved

screw hot pot tho

[marsh spear]

Why

[orchid acorn]

idk i want to like it but i don't want to take a scorch boon unless im actively playing scorch

[marsh spear]

But summer breeze

[orchid acorn]

is ass

[marsh spear]

Wow

[orchid acorn]

if your dodging that much you don't need healing

or rather if you NEED healing despite having dodge something went wrong

[lucid bronze]

all of the dodge boons are good except for hestia’s ones

granted that isn’t very many

[wide socket]

oh so its viable huh

[pallid cradle]

I mean Hestia cast is never a bad selection so hot pot isn't terrible

[orchid acorn]

there are 3 scenarios for that duo boon

1- you have almost zero dodge, only daze+dodge which is going to be rare when it procs so its a dead boon unless you are highrolling - and at that point whats warm breeze doing.

2- you have so much dodge + 20% daze that you don't need the healing cause you're always dodging, dead boon

3- you have decent dodge + daze where its inconsistent, but enough to matter so its supplementing the hits you do take. But you're still gambling with your life like 50% every hit

[orchid acorn]

daze not really.

Dodge yes.

daze just exists for a free half origination curse and 20% that can't be increased isn't very good

doesn't stack with dodge, its just dodge % > then daze

still a 2nd roll to not take damage but not exactly impactful

[wide socket]

yeah thats why i am also not incline to try it for so long

so basically still okay to take both gods just put daze in backburner?

[orchid acorn]

but i very often get at least 50% dodge via wispy wiles if i actively go for it

[orchid acorn]

you don't really WANT apollo period

[wide socket]

hahaha

[orchid acorn]

hes a good 3rd or 4th god but you really want zeus aphro

cause they are mostly air, vs apollo having some air

[wide socket]

apollo is usually my final god boon if i have no idea or in need of sloting dash

[lucid bronze]

apollo is the best 3rd god for dodge builds though

[orchid acorn]

yeah but hes not NEEDEDD

[lucid bronze]

i honestly think you can get away with not having Zeus

[orchid acorn]

in what world

[lucid bronze]

daze makes up for having less air

you would rather have him but apollo over Zeus is fine

[orchid acorn]

no it really doesn't cause as previously stated, its a 20% roll AFTER dodge

you would much rather have +20% dodge than 20% daze

apollo has like 2 air t2 boons, the majority of his are fire. his cores are air though as apposed to aphrodites water

[pallid cradle]

Apollo was always my start on Axe as a whole and a few other aspects where I wanted the attack for big radius on attacks.

[slim pike]

errrr

His dazing boons are all fire

that's the theme, basically with one exception iirc

[orchid acorn]

6 air boons 7 fire boons, honestly more than i expected

[slim pike]

he is a fire-infusion god

and at least he has a theme

Aphrodite doesn't have any real rhyme or reason to her element

[lucid bronze]

most split gods are roughly 50/50

or 25/25/25/25 for hera

[prime rampart]

She makes ppl go weak in the knees 😂

[lucid bronze]

yeah but what else would you put on her

[slim pike]

Heph is easy: blasts are fire, else earth. Demeter cold boons are water, else earth

[lucid bronze]

and every other god feels fitting she’s just the left over combo which still works ok

[slim pike]

I mean, theming as to which ar air and which are water

[lucid bronze]

ahh

yeah it does feel pretty arbitrary

[orchid acorn]

are they?

[pallid cradle]

Aphro makes sense. Weak helps with tank builds which water is part of due to both Demeter and Poseidon infusions and then she also has dodge effects that can be paired with the Apollo stuff.

The one that makes no sense is Zeus because he's primarily wind which makes him not really play into dodge and he ends up being his Hades 1 self where you just wanna see about 7 doors with Zeus on them at a minimum.

[orchid acorn]

im pretty sure its 1 god has 100%, the other is 50/50 split

oh "most split gods" i missed that wording

[potent current]

yeah heaaling and dodging doesnt go very well

[lucid bronze]

it’s fine to pick up if you get it

the healing is surprisingly good

but don’t build around it

[potent current]

Yeah

not every duo boon has to be op or dps machine

[lucid bronze]

because then you run into this problem

[pallid cradle]

Yea but they also shouldn't be natural selection or whatever it is now. I still think it's kinda bad.

[lucid bronze]

it’s like tropical cyclone where it’s a solid pick up but not a good build around

[potent current]

i really wonder how this game is gonna end, there is so much story left to unfold

[orchid acorn]

natural selection wouldn't be OP or dps machine at like 12 poms.

it would just be a nice utility duo boon to boost your build

[slim pike]

Apollo does seem a bit of an odd god to design duos for

you either have something proccing off daze, or you just go down the "Make something the other god does bigger" idea

he's a support god by his very design after all. His cores emphasise the weapon and mel's own abilities and survivability. He's the god that gets the least benefit from Rallying Cry going active other than maaaaybe aphrodite

Warm Breeze seems to be the only one that's slanted slightly more towards Apollo than the other god

[lucid bronze]

apollo has some of my favourite duos in the game

i like all of them (even gd sometimes)

[slim pike]

but you see what I mean about him being the support act there

[marsh spear]

GD?

[slim pike]

Glorious Disaster

[marsh spear]

I agree with the analysis

[short raft]

I DID IT, I FOUND IT
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/616448079788507146/1417507494221320232/image.png?ex=68cabc3a&is=68c96aba&hm=347d6876ebcaa72278d44cd376ef753939e47dfdb2fcfbda825b3a04f05908c1&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=890&height=192

[lucid bronze]

he usually is however his duos are fun and cool so i don’t mind

[marsh spear]

🤮

[lucid bronze]

sunny disposition shiva my beloved

[slim pike]

You could argue GD is zeus supporting Apollo there, since the strikes proc from prominence flare ticks

[marsh spear]

True

[slim pike]

and while that boon is mostly bad, I like the natural synergies both gods bring to it, Air Quality and Super Nova

and how they cleverly made Solar ring naturally synergise with supernova by having the damage tick happen at the end rather than the start

[lucid bronze]

if sgg makes any balance changes before 1.0 please just make gd work like every other omega move buff boon instead of needing more channeling

[slim pike]

it's the channel time that really hurts

I don't even mind the extra cost

[lucid bronze]

just make the ocast cost more magic like every other similar boon

[marsh spear]

True. It's so slowwwww

[lucid bronze]

not more channeling

right now it’s playable with winners circle

[slim pike]

I've had circe with it, WC, AQ and Supernova. it's a monster

[lucid bronze]

if you get it with air quality on Circe it’s really fun but so clunky without winners circle

[lucid bronze]

same it’s great

[slim pike]

but that's 4 boons and one aspect

[lucid bronze]

just wish it didn’t need wc to feel usable

[slim pike]

and throw on an arctic gale and everything dies

Ocasts that do 4k+ damage is kinda funny

[marsh spear]

Why isn't there a boon to make meteors fall on casts final fantasy style

[slim pike]

You'll take your anvil ring and like it

[marsh spear]

Meteor spell Diablo 3 my beloved

[slim pike]

Also is Total Eclipse a joke to you?

You can even slow down enemies with it

[marsh spear]

I knew you'd mention it

Alas Moonfall cannot be colour shifted with boons

[slim pike]

Excess, kinda

man, if that could proc GD...

[marsh spear]

Back in Diablo 3 there were elemental variants for the meteor with really cool names. And the colours and particles ✨ 🌈 🌟 🌠

[marsh spear]

Yes I'm extra what about it 💅

[slim pike]

you can get a big flaming meteor, kinda

[orchid acorn]

"back in diablo 3"

🥀

[slim pike]

quite why Hestia got total ecplise and not lunar ray idk

Apollo clearly works with total eclipse

[marsh spear]

That's Selene turning on the heater. To MAX

Sun Fall?

[orchid acorn]

yeah but it would be ass, total eclipse just gets bigger and lunar ray now applies scorch

[slim pike]

Apollo makes big thing big

[marsh spear]

Mega Eclipse

Screenwide

[slim pike]

I want my old disintegration flamethrower back..

[kindred shard]

P sure you need epic winners circle just to break even on the channel speed

[slim pike]

yes I know Shine of Apollo is disgustingly powerful when set up

did a run last night where it did over 200k of my damage

(Contact with the auto aiming you get on pad is kinda lul)

[marsh spear]

I still think i cooked with trio boons

Contact is just unseriois

[slim pike]

is what now?

[marsh spear]

Un serious

Stupid small keyboard

[slim pike]

+500 damage for each enemy you hit for the first time?

[marsh spear]

Yeah

Bonks

[slim pike]

it just screen clears small enemies because of the autoaim snapping

overflow is kinda nuts for the extra damage that does too

[kindred shard]

The triple beam with auto aim just tripling the damage

I gotta play lunar ray sometime

[slim pike]

assuming the cost is okay

[kindred shard]

Ive been too harsh on hexes

[slim pike]

Lunar ray is only 30 base cost, so you can actually make an adaptable build with it just using your brights

Trinity is +60 cost, prominence is +90

[slim pike]

They're occasionally disgusting, but high fear players tend to shun them due to their huge reward investment that high fear just doesn't afford

[ancient nebula]

Hexes have saved me on 40+ fear so many times.

[marsh spear]

The I frames

[ancient nebula]

Dark side has been a saver so many times on the hectic Typhon fight

[ancient nebula]

The thing about hexes is that high fear with vow of forsaking means that you get more opportunities to have paths of stars as opposed to boons. There is a bit of an investment but most hexes can really carry you in high fear - depending ofc on a few choices. But I think there is a chunk of the community that shuns them for very little reason.

I agree that not EVERY run can accommodate a hex in a way where it will make a significant difference. But one can use them creatively with very little cost

[kindred shard]

Twilight curse just for room clear alone sounds very good

[ancient nebula]

Same with godsent total eclipse

[kindred shard]

Does the teleport morphed enemies to cast thing use your cast as priority on circe

[ancient nebula]

You can just delete the room with it

[ancient nebula]

I'm not sure to be honest

[haughty hill]

it would be kind of grotesquely strong in that case

and yeah in general people are too harsh on hexes

[ancient nebula]

I also love night bloom. I'm a sucker for both night bloom and Sun Worshipper because both can deal so so so much damage in the final encounters

I love a messy breakup

[sleek oar]

Fusion?

[sharp plank]

Hey, I got a question about "Air Quality": I read in a reddit post that it should boost Scorch damage to a ridiculous level since it ticks so many times, but I just got it and when I apply scorch it seems to only deal 50 dmg once.

The post is a year old, so I figured they patched it? Or do the scorch ticks vary with the sources it got applied with?

[haughty hill]

air fryer got patched

[sharp plank]

Sad, I got so hyped that I just got it the first time after I read the post haha

[orchid acorn]

scorch no longer can crit/benefits from air quality as of like unseen balance patch 1

[haughty hill]

it was never a ridiculous buff to scorch per se anyway, scorch only ticks 6 times a second so pyro technique was better when invested in

[orchid acorn]

also yeah ^

[haughty hill]

it just factored into AQ builds being ridiculously efficient and good

[orchid acorn]

after enough scorch you were past air quality improving it since air quality was always last in the damage s tep

[sharp plank]

Ah I see, so it got a little overhyped in the post

[orchid acorn]

it never "boosted" it to nutty levels since it was literally "minimum 50 damage"

[haughty hill]

reddit in general overhypes hugely

[orchid acorn]

what WAS crazy was it being able to crit

[haughty hill]

crit was fine...

[ancient nebula]

Yeah, I always found it odd that it ever could

[orchid acorn]

combined with stuff like freezer burn?

[haughty hill]

freezer burn being able to crit was all that kept scorch alive for a long long time

[orchid acorn]

real and true tbh, but post hestia buffs it was overtuned

i find it a bit sad it can't crit anymore but i'd rather have playable scorch than conditional scorch

[haughty hill]

wwwwas it because freezer burn was like, the least affected by the buffs

it just made everything else scorch catch up

you got some buffs to application speed but that just made it viable on more weapons the best ones already stacked it superfast

and the burn rate buff was if anything a minor nerf to freezer burn

[ancient nebula]

Scorch definitely has a proper place now. I don't mind seeing Hestia

[haughty hill]

scorch overall was a great rework yeah I just don't think removing freezer burn's crit was necessary

not when romspark can crit 😩

and freezer burn was always just, fancier and more difficult romspark in many ways

[orchid acorn]

after i saw that cerb phase 2 oneshot i was team removal

[haughty hill]

you can do that with a bunch of stuff tho

[orchid acorn]

also isn't it a thng that they only made it not full crit and it can still ares minicrit or something

[haughty hill]

I'd be very surprised because grievous blow runs off crit code, IIRC

but also getting grievous blow on a freezer burn build requires an essentially dead boon because even tho the hestia/ares duo applies wounds and will be how you actually apply them it's not a prereq for grievous blow

you gotta get ares on your secondary (of special and attack)

and that's if it works which I don't think it does?

[orchid acorn]

yeah you're right i misremembered 😔

Scorch can no longer be affected by crit, ares DD, or air quality
from hippo

[little mason]

Is hades 2 out yet?

[haughty hill]

25th

[slim pike]

does not

it has a different set of exclusions and both can multiply together

[orchid acorn]

oh it was THIS i was thinking of

Freezer Burn can still be affected by ares dd, and air quality if for some reason your freezer burn is tiny

[little mason]

Illl keep asking until then everyday

[slim pike]

for some reason they saw fit to have no crit on incandesent aura

for reasons!

[icy blade]

does scorch stack up higher than 999 in the background or is it actually capped at 999

[haughty hill]

If scorch can crit it can definitely be affected by ares DD because they're handled literally right next to eachother in the code, it shouldn't even be possible for any damage that runs the crit code to not run the DD code.
hippo circa june when we (mostly hippo, lol) were Investigating Scorch

[little mason]

Can scorch work with ares crit

200% more dmg

[orchid acorn]

see above

[slim pike]

Capped. But heath of hestia sorta breaks it

[haughty hill]

afaik not anymore no

[little mason]

Where?

[haughty hill]

capped at 999 except for total eclipse godsent which can go higher

oh plasma beat me to it lol

[orchid acorn]

did you see what i said above, i realized it was freezer burn that can still minicrit

[west fossil]

But why though?

[orchid acorn]

they felt hestia was too broken and had to like quad nerf her

[haughty hill]

as in, why is it capped at 999? because otherwise you could trivialise unrivaled chronos

[slim pike]

Yeah except that that godsent only breaks the scorch limit one enemies below 999 scorch. Once they're above that it stops trying to add more

[little mason]

Well she is fire mom there just jelous of her hot rizz

[west fossil]

Wasn't it always capped at 999 though? I'm asking more about why the godsent specifically can go over the cap.

[haughty hill]

use freeze or phase shift, stack 12k scorch, freezer burn

[orchid acorn]

it never had a cap.

[west fossil]

Wait, what?

[little mason]

That's a cap

[haughty hill]

a cap got added when they gigabuffed scorch application in unseen

[slim pike]

It's buggy

[little mason]

2000 was the cap

[west fossil]

Am I just Mandela effecting myself?

[haughty hill]

oh was it 2000 before lmao no wonder I never saw it

[orchid acorn]

there were like psuedo caps where phase changes would get rid of all remaining scorch

but you could have infinite scorch on any enemy afaik

pre unseen

[haughty hill]

It has a cap of 999 now, but that's relatively recent

[west fossil]

(UR Eris my behated.)

[haughty hill]

they did it at the same time they like, doubled scorch application numbers

[west fossil]

So I'm just misremembering how long it's been in place then.

[orchid acorn]

for example cerberus pre unseen would cleanse it all whne he dug down and went invincible

and how long scorch has been good

cause it was giga buffed IN unseen

[little mason]

Best ending would be eris dying and strife ending so chronos dies

[slim pike]

EA scorch was such a joke in comparison

[haughty hill]

anyway it goes past 999 on hestia godsent because otherwise the scorch effect would do effectively no damage to your main target

[orchid acorn]

go look at the technical test if you want joke numbers

common posiedon splash was better than heroic full build hestia

[haughty hill]

filtered by the best character 😩

[orchid acorn]

you had to have like heroic scorch attack + like two t2 boons to equal common posiedon attack or something in dps

Fire Extinguisher Hades 2 - Fire Element Boon Foes with at least 300 Scorch take a burst of damage that consumes the effect.
my beloved

[slim pike]

I think it's a bug, like the cap works in two ways. One is that if the applied scorch in one lump would go over 999, cap it at 999. the other is that if scorch is already over 999, it doesn't bother at all

[rough silo]

will hades 2 be discounted at launch?

[slim pike]

I think hearth of hestia applies scorch rapidly in like, 300ish stacks, but the first check doesn't work, but the second one does?

[orchid acorn]

i think its intentional that they don't want a single use(before stuff like athena or the 2nd use in the tree) to be wasted

[slim pike]

I need to look at the script better

[slim pike]

it's not one big lump sum iirc

[orchid acorn]

but i havent looked at the scripts either just making assumptions with dev philosphy

[slim pike]

it just ticks LOADS of scorch very rapidly

[buoyant matrix]

not likely

[orchid acorn]

honestly, likely

just... not by much

[rough silo]

alr

[slim pike]

no wait, huh

[orchid acorn]

if not literally at launch, during the steam sale literally 4 days later

[slim pike]

it just applies 1200 scorch

[orchid acorn]

every steam sale since EA launch has had it sell for like 10% off

(and major update if they didn't fall on said sale)

so i'd expect that

[haughty hill]

I feel the latter would imply there are intentional ways to bypass the cap and since Hearth of Hestia is the only way of doing that...

[slim pike]

but it keeps trying to apply 1200 burn every 0.05 seconds

[haughty hill]

pfuh okay wait that should go much higher then

[orchid acorn]

it'd be funny if the check was literally only stopping stuff from applying slower than that

[slim pike]

so clearly the cap works

[buoyant matrix]

i am currently watching squid game

i just wanted yall to know that

you may continue discussing scorch

[verbal rampart]

Scorch is the best of curses, I beat Chronos for the first time with scorch

[shy coral]

Is ot recommended to make a new save when 1.0 drops?

[slim pike]

Looks like maxstacks 999 is only checked if it's trying to add scorch when some is already there? huuuuh

[nocturne zenith]

this would be personal preference, no? the only thing you need to really worry about ("worry") is using your sand and lenses before 1.0 since they'll get nuked in the update

[short raft]

I have 2 duos, and my Blade cast build is dealing so lil damage, why?

[shy coral]

Oh okay makes sense

[orchid acorn]

when did you start your save is my question

[nocturne zenith]

which duos? there's a lot.

[orchid acorn]

cause if it was like unseen, or maybe even warsong i'd say no if you are still fresh remembering the plot

[nocturne zenith]

also what build are you talking about?

[orchid acorn]

if you started circa EA launch i'd say restart

[shy coral]

I havent updated since july second

Thats unseen

[orchid acorn]

july of this year?

and again, not the question. not the last time you PLAYED when you STARTED your save

[dusky mountain]

guess who took 24th and 25th off 👀

[short raft]

The blade related one, apo and hepe's
its a cast build.

[dire sand]

I already have the week of the 29th off lmao

[dusky mountain]

thats convenient

[shy coral]

Yeah i started this save with the update that came out on july second

[dire sand]

I did that months ago I just am lucky ig

[orchid acorn]

if you actually started your save in the unseen update 3 months ago, just keep with your current save tbh

[dusky mountain]

its gonna be a hell of a time, Diablo 4 S10 on 23rd, Hades on 25th, and Ghost of Yotei Oct 2nd

[shy coral]

Oke doke

[nocturne zenith]

aphrodite/heph duo is heartthrobs on blast. so you're going for heartthrob spam?

[orchid acorn]

i only recommend people restart if they are like EA veterans who havent heard a unique line of dialogue intended for the story since like may 2024 lmao

[west fossil]

It's been that long???

[nocturne zenith]

also if you're doing a cast build then i don't think aphro/heph is doing anything for you. their duo has nothing to do with casts and heph's cast doesn't count as blasts for the duo.

[silent cedar]

I got the game like on EA launch lmao rip

[short raft]

this is a ares build what?

[orchid acorn]

While nothing has changed plot wise for the most part, there are some pretty big meta progression changes and its just a general refresher on the plot. you likely know the big story beats but not like minute details of every characters side plot and how the story progresses etc

[nocturne zenith]

what's this then?

i thought apo and hepe -> aphro and heph

oh coffin nail

[sharp plank]

Ehhh not so nice, I started my save a year ago, played like 9 runs and paused until two weeks ago when I started with the grind. Will I need to reset the save or will I have no benefit of it?

[nocturne zenith]

i don't think coffin nail works on omega cast? not certain

wait ares cast drops blades i'm stupid

[potent relic]

I figured someone here knows faster than I can search but does H2 always have you meet the same god on your first run like H1 had you meet Athena? I can’t recall

[orchid acorn]

to be specifically clear you don't NEED to restart

[nocturne zenith]

coffin nail by itself yeah, it's not fantastic for damage. it just makes the blades a bit more reliable in terms of hitting before the enemy moves or dies

[short raft]

ok ,w,

[nocturne zenith]

if you combo it with ares/apollo duo it can do better numbers and it gets kind of funny on something like momus

[orchid acorn]

within your context you are likely playing with most of the intended content and everything past that is fresh in your mind with what you've seen in the past few weeks

[short raft]

using the laser staff instead lol

[orchid acorn]

the comment i made is for people religiously playing maxed out saves since EA start lmao

[sharp plank]

Ah I see, so there is no specific content that got added that requires a fresh save, as long as you have not been at the point of the story where additions have been made?

[nocturne zenith]

yeah that's your problem. circe has no particular synergy with coffin nail i'd say

[covert valve]

I was doing a no-hit shrine for a pom, failed, and had sea star trigger on the onion 😔😔

The fates are laughing at me 😔😔

[sharp plank]

Thats great to hear, I was worried for a second there haha

[potent current]

Beach Ball

[orchid acorn]

for the most part not much earlygame story HAS been added

[orchid acorn]

its specifically cause people wouldn't have seen or heard the dialogue in over a year that should prob replay the game

think of it like watching a series. Season 2 came out but season 1 was over a year ago

do you really remember the plot or just the major story beat

[covert valve]

Aw hell. I'd love an animated Hades series.

[short raft]

I will start a fresh save anyway, for whatever reason, dora give me 0 prometeus comments/dialog

[potent current]

@orchid acorn fire pfp

[orchid acorn]

this is also a consideration

there are likely a few edgecase bugs that people have problems with from existing save files that a fresh file shoudl just fix cuase it won't have existing jank

like ive seen so many people complain about dora/arachne progression despite me and ry not seeing any issues

[proper oar]

is it a good time to say the early access experience has been near flawless for me, and the story has felt like it’s developed over the course of EA pretty well. I’m not gonna start a new save

[potent current]

it would be hella expensive with the current animation style and i dont think hades' story can be episodical

[covert valve]

I used to have it for arachne. It finally triggered only yesterday because of the patches they made. I started playing around April this year I think

[proper oar]

The idea that Melinoe is simply not ready and we’re still training just fits super well

[covert valve]

Yeah...dare to dream though...

[orchid acorn]

feel free, thats your choice. if you feel comfortable going in raw without a refresher n the plot or experiencing it the "intended" way thats on you. not like our playthroughs are gonna be as intended anyway with how experienced we are beating chronos in like 5 nights or less lmfao

[slim pike]

That's kinda neither god but it's own effect

[orchid acorn]

i just say restart so you actually get the dialogue "in order" as intended + rereading the plot

[slim pike]

unless you go by visuals, where it's very clearly a water orb

[orchid acorn]

like i got dialogue in unseen about medea wondering whats on the mountain like sis i wonder what could possibly be there

not like i have 50 of his eyes in my bag

[nocturne zenith]

fwiw i'm going to stay on my existing file for 1.0 on steam just so i can see the ending and not have to avoid spoilers for ages, but when i grab the switch version i'll start fresh without cross-save

[potent current]

Yeah and i love it, duo boons should be their own things

[orchid acorn]

1.0 with existing saves will likely have a lot of issues with out of order dialogue, let alone if you go in and just win on the first night post release where your gonna get even more out of order with it playing first win dialouge > next run getting dialogue they added in to complete retroactively but its past when i was supposed to play etc

but that can easly happen with winning to fast on a normal save too

[slim pike]

I'm of the opposite opinion

[orchid acorn]

so w.e

[covert valve]

I agree. My very good friend that introduced me to the game, told me losses on runs not only contributed to the god meter, but told me that losing actually meant I wouldn't miss important story dialogue. I was getting annoyed by how quickly things seemed to be nuking me...then again, the Hades series is only my second rogue like

[granite mauve]

that blasted hydra never takes my feedback

[slim pike]

I feel Duos should play off both gods, or benefit one god's theme in the style of the other

[orchid acorn]

assuming you mean god mode which is optional, but yeah losses "progress" the story.

[covert valve]

So after the full game is out, I'm most definitely starting a new file.

[orchid acorn]

eventually you still need to win but you get more plot and other stories by losing

[covert valve]

Yes. God Mode meter! Apologies

[potent current]

Hot take i think Hades games should be played only in EA because this happens lol

[dusky mountain]

how does god mode even work, can you still die with it? never used it in any game

[orchid acorn]

in hades 2 it scales up to 80% damage resistance

[potent current]

You take less and less damage every time you lose

[orchid acorn]

so if you were to take 10 damage from an attack, you only tak 2

[nocturne zenith]

god mode is 20% damage resistance, increasing up to 80% as you die repeatedly

you can turn it on and off at any time

[dusky mountain]

ohh so it scales up

[slim pike]

Hot take, they need to rename it to goddess mode

[covert valve]

God Mode increases your damage resist! Very good for people that are only playing for the story and don't want to be able to do a bajillion runs for wanting to experience it

[dusky mountain]

if you get a win, does it reset to 20?

[orchid acorn]

yeah and warsong added a slider you can put it at any amount you want

[covert valve]

Valid

[potent current]

Hot take, gods doesnt have a gender

[covert valve]

Nope! It does not

[nocturne zenith]

no, it never goes down

[orchid acorn]

It used to progress backwards per win, but now i believe its just a slider.

and you pick what you want up to your current DR

[nocturne zenith]

wait what? this is news to me.

[covert valve]

Really?? Damn!

[slim pike]

That's literally the Vows

[orchid acorn]

that was added in warsong iirc

[dusky mountain]

i dont get the difference between hell mode and high heat

[potent current]

its sad that we never saw Melinoe's nightmare abilities

[covert valve]

Mayhaps with launch?

[slim pike]

Take vows, get nightmare, enemies respawn randomly, enemies attack faster, double ammunition

Wait, no, that's Doom

[nocturne zenith]

iirc hell mode removes the mercy invincibility zag gets when he takes a bunch of damage at once. haven't checked if there's an equivalent in h2.

[dusky mountain]

every chamber you clear has an additional eris

[orchid acorn]

Settings
God Mode Limit: new! You now can reduce the effect of God Mode if you wish

2/19/25

trying to find a screenshot on google but i can't find one quickly surprisingly

i've seen it before

[nocturne zenith]

i've literally never turned it on in h2 so /shrug

[slim pike]

Not yet

[nocturne zenith]

and tbh i only started using it in h1 when i started pushing higher heat

[covert valve]

I didn't know it like...went down when you got wins.

[dusky mountain]

guys, do you think with 1.0, we will finally get to know the mysterious identity of COmmander Schelemaeus?

[covert valve]

That...wouldn't have made me very enthusiastic about playing lol

[covert valve]

Don't we know already? He was a VERY good sailor when he was alive! 😌😌

[nocturne zenith]

i don't think it does? based on the way the patch note is worded you can reduce it if you want but it won't do so automatically without your say-so

[orchid acorn]

like i said now its just a preset amount you change but idk how it works that well i dont use it

[covert valve]

No i meant before they added the slider lol

[nocturne zenith]

pre-slider it never went down afaik

[covert valve]

That's valid!

[orchid acorn]

it also highly reduces the value of boons that give DR themselves like weak or even just strength

otherwise with 80% god mode + strength you would literally be invincible

[orchid acorn]

i could be wrong, but i swear it adjusted basded on your wins/losses

[nocturne zenith]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[covert valve]

Yep yep!

I like strength a lot! Now that I have God Mode maxed out, I don't need as much DD, so having that extra damage rlly helps out a lot! :D

[orchid acorn]

google tells me it never goes down and was complained a lot about so im wrong ig

[orchid acorn]

😭 lore accurate mel coming in literally invulnerable

[wide socket]

ayyy i managed to break 20 fear rival cronus second try because of that athena DD hahahaha not a praricular bright build but i have 81% plastma boost and a heroic attack XD

[covert valve]

She's an absolute unit I swear 😭
Like the trailer really showed us her muscle definition 😭

The animators knew what we wanted 🥴🥴

[orchid acorn]

chronos POV seeing puppy walk in at 1.0 https://imgur.com/AKitvL6

[covert valve]

And also, show me Nyx because I want her free for...reasons

(I just want her to go off on Eris and laugh about it while I eat popcorn)

[balmy shuttle]

give the update to me already bro i cant wait

[covert valve]

...I would like to have Arachne be a dateable

[orchid acorn]

id settle for patch notes

[covert valve]

9 more days...9 more days we can do this

[balmy shuttle]

i cant do this no mo

[verbal rampart]

The thing is : I doubt she will, actually. Hades 2 might be the time to show us an actual flaw of Mother Nyx : she's a loving mother, but maybe she sometimes lack, hum, how could I say it? Eris didn't end up like this by coincidence, Nyx just let her be

[covert valve]

Nyx definitely didn't leave her be I don't think, with the amount of trouble Eris was brewing, despite being the literal embodiment of discord. I think if you look at it, a lot of how Nyx parents is reflected in the way Chaos parented her, and she makes the same mistakes a lot. But I think this time away, and their relationship with Chaos should probably give her some perspective.

[slim pike]

Nyx made those offspring before there were humans around to make it a problem

Humans should all bow down and worship their creator: Prometheus

[covert valve]

I'm hoping hanging out with Mel may give Eris some perspective on...when and where to sow discord (hehe)

[cursive kayak]

eris seems to have this idea that people want to “fix her” rather than accepting her, and that might have stemmed from nyx. she certainly isn’t a perfect parent

[covert valve]

This has nothing to do with how attractive he is...yes?

[slim pike]

No I mean, he literally made humanity out of clay

[covert valve]

Oh yeah no, that's fair

[cursive kayak]

that would be amazing

[verbal rampart]

The first game really showed Nyx under her best profile : loving foster-mom, and with two childs, Thanatos and Hypnos, who actually are kind gods. But the second game shows us Nemesis, Eris and Moros, who are very different and suggest a flaw in Nyx's parenting (Nemesis being constantly angry, Eris being irresponsible and Moros being awkward)

[covert valve]

That but also, you see the way she treats Than and the way she treats Hypnos, and can already tell that she isn't the perfect mother that she may seem to be. When the game hints at the other children of Nyx, not to mention Than mentioning that they aren't all close, even highlights this fact.

[cursive kayak]

i mean moros was essentially raised by the fates if im remembering correctly, nyx didn’t even really parent him

[cursive kayak]

yeah! exactly

[covert valve]

What, like he was born and his sisters just kidnapped him and went: Ours now??

[verbal rampart]

Exactly. But I just can't find the words : Nyx's parenting has a flaw, but I can't name it

[covert valve]

What, were the fates thinking they'd be better parents than Mother Nyx 💀

[small echo]

I'd say Moros turned out alright, same with Nemesis but that's because I have issues

[verbal rampart]

I think that's actually why we see Nyx under her best light (pun not intended) : she's not a perfect mother, but she might be the actual best mother of the setting. At least, a better parent than Hades

[little mason]

nyx is manipulative and controlling

[covert valve]

I do. She's too much of a workaholic and doesn't take time to actually be a mom...because she doesn't follow the conventional example of a mom.

[little mason]

[oak ivy]

Is this the first time we see literally 0 devs online???

[orchid acorn]

no.

[oak ivy]

😔

[verbal rampart]

Don't do anything rash

[little mason]

were the devs now 🤓

[orchid acorn]

finally

[verbal rampart]

Bound by responsibility.

[oak ivy]

not even Nikola is there...

[orchid acorn]

give me 10 minutes with the codebase

[hearty fog]

Nyx was very hands-off. Than turned out well, Hypnos can be absent-minded but means well and does do good work.

[orchid acorn]

the game will never be the same

[granite mauve]

buffing Medea and Zeus rn

[oak ivy]

this is something I can believe!

[hearty fog]

The rest... Well, Mel can help Nem and Eris.

[verbal rampart]

Hands-off! That's the word I was searching for! (I'm not a native english-speaker)

[covert valve]

I think a little too hands off is what causes Eris and Nem to be....well...Eris and Nem. Apart from their natures

[cursive kayak]

moros turned out socially stunted and with a glaring lack of self-esteem, idk if that’s alright

[hearty fog]

Exactly.

[oak ivy]

jesus

[verbal rampart]

Nemesis is actually not too bad. She's just constantly angry at everything, but she is not irresponsible.

[covert valve]

But also, do we know the extent of how much a god's very nature can affect who they are...and if they can control it? Like does nature vs nurture even come into play with...gods?

[verbal rampart]

But Eris yeah no excuses for her

[slim pike]

Hi Int, Low Wis, as we say in the D&D world

[hearty fog]

Yes, the gods can change.

[slim pike]

The gods have changed

[hearty fog]

Hades, one of the most rigid of the entire expanded pantheon, grew softer over time due to his love for his family.

[orchid acorn]

Medea - nerfed to 60%
Cast bug fixed

Mel axe 40 power and hp and applies to reg special too

Artemis now shows on the door with her bond chibi, and +5% to every spawnrate

Mel skull power bonus now applies based on skulls not fired on impact, rather than on fire

Ares self succ is now basekit

Persephone can no longer give level 0 boons, except for unpommables

then i vanish

[slim pike]

there was a god of war before Ares and you meet them in Hades 2

[covert valve]

Doesn't give her an excuse to misplace her anger though. She's downright awful to Mel sometimes

[verbal rampart]

We have an actual example of this in a dialogue between Zagreus and Achilles : every god has to be the god of something. So my guess is : your nature doesn't dictate what you are, but what you are defines your nature.

[little mason]

dont forget eris is removed from the game

[verbal rampart]

She definitely is but it's because her very own nature is denied : she is vengeance. So, when it is about punishing Chronos, why denying her what is supposed to be her right?

[covert valve]

Wouldn't she be triggering vengeance herself then, considering her nature would come second because primarily, the right towards that vengeance would go to Melinoë?

[covert valve]

I mean, Meli certainly doesn't have to do it alone and I guess that's where Nem is right, but taking it out in Mel, who has no say in the matter, is rather...immature I feel

[hearty fog]

Who?

[verbal rampart]

That's a very good argument and an actual explanation as to why Hecate decided the task would be Melinoe's. But overall, you're alright : until late in the game when she softens, Nemesis is mean. Really mean.

[slim pike]

Aphrodite

[little mason]

hestia

[slim pike]

Also Nem is a very specific form of retribution

for Hubris, specifically

[verbal rampart]

All of this makes Melinoe's even nicer to actually accept Nemesis' apologizes

[slim pike]

the other forms of retribution come from the Erinyes

[covert valve]

Of course...one of the most popular fatal flaws out there

[slim pike]

arrogance before the gods

[verbal rampart]

I guess that's why she actually despises Olympus and consider the events of the game as "probably deserved"

[little mason]

what are you talking about im the best

better then the rest above the gods

[verbal rampart]

Ok Narcissus.

[little mason]

you just dont understand me

none of you do

[granite mauve]

zagreus after purchasing a painting of himself:

[covert valve]

Rightfully so, honestly

Melinoe=Laurel so...
Zagreus=Narcissus...viable

[verbal rampart]

That's why I love her character : Nemesis is mean, she is angry, but she is not arrogant. She simply knows her strength and her role as a goddess and try to extend her thinking of vengeance.

[covert valve]

Hot take: This is a very skelly line 💀

[verbal rampart]

Nemesis is easily my favourite romance option besides Icarus

[slim pike]

Also, truefax, the symbol of the olympic games is an insult to the olympians

[covert valve]

She's my least favourite lmao, and I say this as a lesbian. I am an Arachne stan

[slim pike]

"Haha, we stole fire from you, yoink!"

[orchid acorn]

true believers are awaiting the promised land at 1.0 for arachne

[hearty fog]

I'm pretty sure that is the vibe of some of the dialogue between Zag and Skelly whenever you unlock Heat statues in H1.

[verbal rampart]

Wait what, Arachne is a romance option?

[covert valve]

Hear hear 😭😭

[granite mauve]

melinoe is such a narcissist I can’t believe she has THREE statues of herself

[hearty fog]

Some of us are just coping.

[covert valve]

[verbal rampart]

Oooooooh ok. I see.

[orchid acorn]

we WILL get a human arachne that is a nerdy girl at 1.0

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[covert valve]

Charge Charge Charge Cast

[little mason]

nah we will squish the spider

[slim pike]

Funny story, I did a Nemesis romance in the last room before the endshop of Erebus. So I've got this weird thought of Hecate just pacing around thinking "Where is she? Doesn't normally take this long"

[orchid acorn]

she can squish me in human form

[covert valve]

insert pedro pascal laughing and then immediately crying gif

[cursive kayak]

i also think that nem just doesn’t really know how to properly express emotions and that all turns into anger, which is why she’s so mean at the beginning.

i always read “the task should be mine” anger as “you were wronged and it’s unfair that you have to be the one to right those wrongs when it’s literally my domain (and it’s unfair that hecate literally turned you into a weapon to do so)”

[verbal rampart]

Does Hecate makes any comments on MelNem growing relationship?

[hearty fog]

"Melinoe? You're breathing quite heavily but you don't look wounded."

[slim pike]

Not that I recall

[verbal rampart]

Nem's insolence towards Hecate is priceless

[slim pike]

Hecate is all bark and no bite

[dusky mountain]

Nem in the hot springs is such a beaut

[slim pike]

wait, no, that's Hecuba, my bad

[dusky mountain]

those eyes

[verbal rampart]

Because she needs not to bite

[slim pike]

She barks and everyone nearby is all like "OMG CUTE DOGGO MUST PET"

[covert valve]

Honestly you're totally valid in thinking that, and I think this is where the Nuances of how Zagreus turned out vs how the others turned out can be seen. Nyx actively patented him, initially due to her sense of duty to the former queen and the realm, but grew to love him as her own, because she knew Hades was nowhere near healed enough to parent him properly. In contrast, she chose the hands free option with the others because they were her own children

[verbal rampart]

I love the fact that Hecate is such a dog-person that she's actually surprised when you get a cat

"Wadahell, a cat? In MY Crossroads?"

[slim pike]

A supercat that can magnetically grab fish from 20 meters

[short raft]

tell me ur a modder pls

[cursive kayak]

which is so funny bc cats are more typically associated with witches and witchcraft LOL

[covert valve]

"Yoink. Grabbed your fla-I mean fish!"

[cursive kayak]

hecate is a dog mom

[orchid acorn]

for simple things like numerical yeah but anything bigger is such a pita like implementing artemis on door would be too annoying to do for me

[slim pike]

Also that blasted little toad

although Frinos is anything but little

[covert valve]

Frinos best boy

[verbal rampart]

Frinos may be a frog, but he's also a goat

[cursive kayak]

i love my fat emotional support frog

[slim pike]

Toula is like a bobcat in size

[orchid acorn]

i already modded my game to have 0% level 0s on persephone and i love it

gib official

[verbal rampart]

Oh also : since you don't like Nem romance, what do you think about Eris romance? Because personnally, I hate it.

[nocturne zenith]

i got lucky with like a level 5 heph attack once on it but it still didn't manage to feel really great

[cursive kayak]

i wish. at least the very first boon should have something

[covert valve]

HEHEHEHEHE I love eris romance

[verbal rampart]

Just. Why.

[covert valve]

"I'm gonna kill you."

"You wanna kiss me so bad it makes you look stupid."

[orchid acorn]

the weapon even says it gives bonus levels 😭

not may not a chance straight up has bonus levels

1 should be the minimum

[cursive kayak]

YEAH

[orchid acorn]

(barring unpommables)

[verbal rampart]

Ok ok I can understand but Icarus and Moros romances are way better in my point of view.

[covert valve]

Icarus is currently number 2. Moros is above Nem and Below Eris

Arachne
Icarus
Eris
Moros
Nem

[orchid acorn]

arachne>eris>celibacy>nemesis>men

[covert valve]

That and it's like a reverse ZagMeg 🥲

[verbal rampart]

For me it would be : Icarus ; Moros ; Nemesis ; Arachne (if it really happens) ; Eris

[cursive kayak]

i think the eris romance isn’t worse, just very different. and it’s also incredibly well-written

eris has this idea that mel is this stuck up princess that would want to change her (just like everyone else in the pantheon) and raises her walls to like 50ft high. it’s only when she realizes that “hey, mel might be kind of chill actually” that she allows herself to lower her guard.

[orchid acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/dale-walking-dead-i-know-what-kind-of-man-you-are-gif-3136629546574604277

whats the term for furry but spiders

[covert valve]

Ough

I can't even say the s word??

That's bull

[hearty fog]

I know I need to at least start giving her more Nectar eventually.

[verbal rampart]

I hate Athena both for what she did to Dusa and what she did to Arachne

[acoustic ruin]

if she gets a form change, she will change into a more fleshed out form of an arachne, with a bigger human body

[hearty fog]

But I got tilted from her showing up as a boss and said "No!"

[covert valve]

....reminds me of Narcissus friendship

[covert valve]

Is it canon that dusa is what she is bc of Athena?

[hearty fog]

Athena is the one who originally cursed Medusa, yes?

In more ancient versions of the myth.

[cursive kayak]

id rather there be an athena arachne confrontation than arachne turn human

[covert valve]

Bc some sources suggest that Dusa was just a Gorgon plain and simple, and that a god hating dude wrote the whole shtick with Poseidon

[verbal rampart]

It's never outright said, but Dusa seems to be "afraid" of Athena

[covert valve]

But I definitely am not in a hurry to max my friendship with Athena

[covert valve]

Hmmm
I see. I might not max out Athena friendship then...but I do want achievements...

[acoustic ruin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831124269823426610/1417534798381060196/FFY1ibYXEAQ4AFa.png?ex=68cad5a8&is=68c98428&hm=9ba6c0247ab44a81c9e787e8e7f43c7ff54fe76ac17e90bc8ee826dd34a24fcc& this is the furthest i would allow arachne to change "human"

[covert valve]

I know what you are

[verbal rampart]

I do want achievements too, but Athena is very low on my friendship-list

[hearty fog]

We know that Arachne was originally human, yes? Her spider form is a curse given to her from Athena?

[slim pike]

Athena gave the shield to Perseus that was used to slay Medusa

[covert valve]

Same. Would've been the same with nem had I not been wanting achievements

[verbal rampart]

Yes, she outright says that she was human

[brazen ibex]

Slowly realising that The End of Time is gonna be my number one listened song and ill be top 0.1% of listeners

[covert valve]

Yes

[cursive kayak]

yeah

[acoustic ruin]

someone who likes the idea of polymorph into anything 💀 ? And using a picture of "Im a spider so what" to convey my ideas 💀