WNT Needs flag or it does nothing
#pvp
winged holly
so if you're running bisko with graf zeppelin, bisko has to have the WNT if you want it
because bisko needs flag in that comp
if you're interested in survival, rudder is better on carriers than WNT
slender tartan
some people use it on a non flag. for the stats. they do it on aquila tho. if it works on graf i dunno. thats what im testing. but i cant really test it without HPFCR so i can change things up. with white shell she just to squishy. pops like a balloon 10 secs in
winged holly
for stats it's not better than rudder or mic
depending on what you're looking for
if your bismarck is popping like a balloon in 10 seconds then she's probably just underleveled
slender tartan
120 lvl . oathed. +13 all gear
winged holly
then you're doing something horribly wrong
slender tartan
with shells she gets popped. with proper gear she is not
but i dont have HPFCR. to change her gear. to test washington for stats on graf. so she gets white shells. and then she gets popped.
winged holly
bisko shouldn't be dying immediately unless you face a torp comp that gets lucky
but yes WNT needs to be on flag to have its skill work
it's not worth using for stats alone since better alternatives (like rudder) exist
slender tartan
by default i got her dual shells.+13 . i change her for NJ fights . i give her washington and steering gear. and graf the 2 pvp gears from core (oil and radar thingy). i want to give graf washington(for stats alone) and oil and give bisko HPFCR and steering. but i dont have HPFCR so she gets steering and white. and she goes boom.
so im stuck in limbo until i get one HPFCR. which is. 21/25 
. like please game. HELP ME
i would also like to test triple BB vs NJ-Aquila. since graf dies fast most of the time cuz reveal. maybe triple BB would perform better. like BISKO-FDG-ODIN. but odin is like 26DEV so she kinda worthless. i also dont have gear to give he aside shells. so yeah. her life expectancy is literally 10 sec. for now at least
tall nimbus
10 sec sounds about right tbh
full aquila crash damage since there's literally no AA resisting
stray VV shells
then 10 sec NJ barrage to finish her off
stable dawn
crimson bear
#pvp message Corrections mentioned here have gone up live on the site @gloomy lantern
light crystal
for stats it's not better than rudder or mic
The thing is, the WNT is the best gear for both EVA and Hit you can put on a CV.
dull hollow
i can probs give my aquila pvp gear
i dont use her for pve anymore
coz this cycle of meta boss
is a CL
winged holly
The thing is, the WNT is the best gear for both EVA and Hit you can put on a CV.
but usually you want one or another
mic provides AA as well as HIT
so it is also defensive
light crystal
mic provides AA as well as HIT
AA is useless
When you have BB's shooting at u
The meta has shifted from purely CV's to more BB heavy
Hit/EVA aux are much better than Hit/AA ones right now
winged holly
even then HIT doesn't sound particularly important on carriers
when a lot of your damage comes from crash
which ignores evasion
I suppose that is setup dependent but Aquila is crashing a lot, for example
light crystal
when a lot of your damage comes from crash
No it does not
winged holly
yes it does
light crystal
Crash is wholly unreliable until later on the battle
winged holly
????
light crystal
!!!!
Crash dmg gets reduced by alot when planes take dmg. Torps/bombs do not
The battle tempo is dictated by how much dmg the BB's are pumping
winged holly
Sure, but crash ignores evasion and wyvern intercepts for extra crash. You get a lot of free damage that way
winged holly
Crash is very valuable, which is why people coom over the wyvern
light crystal
It seems your grasp of the mechanics is sorta lacking in regards to the current meta, so u do u lol
winged holly
okay, humor me, if it's not important, why is wyvern good?
light crystal
Torps > Crash > Intercept.
Torps can delete the VG or heavily DMG them connect, if you get good RNG and they allign, they can also heavily chunk the Backline
winged holly
that's also true about aimed TBs but to a much higher degree
so why do people still use wyvern?
light crystal
They got high HP and high crash dmg, so provided most of the AA has been cleared (I.e, VG ded or almost ded), then they can do heavy crash dmg
light crystal
Intercept helps down some planes, but not alot. They also scramble on some barrage skills, like Hiryuu's
winged holly
if intercept is not all that useful why is it so much better than the cuda?
people were gasming when it came out
light crystal
I'm listing the qualities of it, , in order of most effectiveness to least, I'm not ignoring them
winged holly
but those "most important" qualities you've listed are properties of aimed TBs as well
which people do not run
light crystal
And that doesn't detract from the fact that we were talking about how Eva and Hit are better in the current meta than a AA/Hit item, like Mics
Dude
A Wyvern drops 4x torps compared to 3x of a Cuda, and they do higher dmg per torp too
U can't compare them
winged holly
indeed, but all the other great properties you listed of them were still true about ryusei
which people did not and do not run
light crystal
Ppl do no run Wyverns SOLELY because of the Crash
winged holly
but it's a major deciding factor
light crystal
Not the main
winged holly
You're claiming that the most important valuable part of TBs are good because, and I directly quote,
Torps can delete the VG or heavily DMG them connect, if you get good RNG and they allign, they can also heavily chunk the Backline
which is true to an even greater degree about aimed TBs. But people do not run aimed TBs. Why is that?
if crash was really as minor as you are making it out to be, then people would run aimed TBs since they do this, but better.
But they do not.
light crystal
You don't get it. Since they drop 4x, or more torps, that's why they're great, because they have a higher chance to hit the VG
Which is the reason some ppl like to use Speed gear on their Vg, to try to make it easier to dodge the wall
winged holly
Speed gear is to make BBs miss
it just as well could cause your vanguard to walk right through the entire thing
also those four torps are terrible against backliners if you put them up next to aimed TBs
light crystal
Ok, either way, will you tell me with a straight face you use Mics on ur CV's right now?Or wut Aux are u running. I think ur detracting alot from the original convo
light crystal
Ok, and wut u run
winged holly
I run bacon as my second aux because its 4% CDR stacks additively with aquila's CDR
light crystal
Ok, fair enough. Some ppl prefer full offense CV's, which is ok
winged holly
that is what I run
light crystal
I don't see it as optimal, but it can work out
You need to understand that I took issue with how you were saying that WNT is useless outside the stats
winged holly
that is not what I said
I said the stats were not useful
I said it was useless outside the skill
light crystal
It's the same thing!
winged holly
no?
light crystal
And you're wrong. But it seems you've made up your mind, so that's OK I guess
winged holly
huh?
being "useless outside the stats" means only useful for its stat bonus
which is the opposite of what I was saying
I'm saying that the skill is the primary value it provides
it's the most important reason to run it
it's not terrible since its stats are alright but it's not the best choice if you're not running it on your flagship
light crystal
Well, here's the thing. WNT reduces dmg. Which is OK for stalling heavy fleets. Mafia, is NOT a stalling fleet. NJ/VV/AQL are frontloaded int her dmg. They kill fast.
winged holly
-15% damage reduction to everybody is a good thing
light crystal
Nerfing what you're good at is counter intuitive.
winged holly
no it's not
light crystal
No it isn't.
winged holly
attackers inherently have an advantage by default which means defense wins predominantly with good RNG
by reducing both sides damage by 15% symmetrically you reduce the variance of the fight
which decreases the chance that your opponent will RNG out a win
light crystal
It depends on ur fleet. If it's frontloaded dmg, u dont want to use WNT, for the effects, at all. If it's a stalling fleet that requires 20s+ to start pumping DPS, u want the battle to last longer
winged holly
WNT is still beneficial in frontloaded damage fleets for the same reason
light crystal
It isn't.
winged holly
okay then 
light crystal
Ppl run WNT legitimately off-flag because the stats are very good.
winged holly
not best tho
better off putting it on your flag for teh skill
which is good
decreasing the variance of a fight where you have the advantage is always a good thing
as I said, it decreases the chance that the defense will RNG out a win
light crystal
The skill is good, but I'm telling you of its optimal uses. It's not a "one effect fits all scenario".
winged holly
except it's good in every team
for the same reason
decreasing the variance of a fight where you have the advantage is always a good thing
light crystal
Wow, I can't believe how misguided you are, but you know wut, I'll let you be, because talking to a wall isn't fun 
winged holly
okay dude 
I suppose calling me misguided is simply easier than explaining why decreasing the variance of a fight where you have the advantage is not actually a good thing
you made a statement about how mafia is all about frontloaded damage and then criticized offensive aux as not optimal
so I'm really not sure what you're getting at
light crystal
I consider Hit to be Offensive.
Which is why I run HPFCR on BB's
Otherwise, I'd be running double shell like a rtard if I didn't know any better that Hit helps the mainline alot
Meeting thresholds of accuracy is necessary, because a miss is 0 dmg, as opposed to trying to increase dmg by 5-10%
So rather than put a Beacon on my CV's and have like 60% hit rate on VG, I rather try to get it to 70% hit rate, and so on
winged holly
Otherwise, I'd be running double shell like a rtard if I didn't know any better ...
you know dropping a vowel doesn't make slurs part of the rules, right?
winged holly
I consider Hit to be Offensive.
sure, but you criticized my decision to use offensive aux and said that it's not optimal
which is fundamentally incompatible with your statement that mafia wants to kill quickly and doesn't care as much about the long game
and you still haven't explained why you think decreasing the variance of a fight where you have the advantage is not actually a good thing
instead you choose to accuse me of being "misguided"
light crystal
NJ and VV start pumping damage within 20s
winged holly
indeed, as does aquila
light crystal
So being able to mitigate that dmg and being able to get the first aistrike off is not a bad thing to do
winged holly
except you'll always get in an extra airstrike with aquila
light crystal
Not always
winged holly
(I mean beyond the preloaded one)
if your opponents have a triangle set up to snipe the position where your aquila hangs out, then you can easily just move her to the other side of your fleet to handle that scenario without any real issues
this is rarely necessary though since she can typically tank through those first few shots
light crystal
Anyways, I was trying to help u, but it seems u've made up ur mind, so Im cool with wut u do
My experience only comes from doing PvP all the time, always using 120/200's, with the best gear and being a meta whore as well
Surely I don't know wut I'm talking about
candid sluice
empty grove
prisma scaffold
light crystal
So when are you two going to duke it out in the ring?
Cross-server PvP when Manjuu.
candid sluice
didnt we have this wnt vs mic conversation a few days ago
winged holly
I find this amusing
"I only use 120 oathed units and therefore I know better than you about equipment" 🧠
dull hollow
mint hornet
flint python
I don't even run Wyvern on Aql anymore
hot creek
candid sluice
818 supremacy
light crystal
8️⃣
🗑️
light crystal
Yes, 2 battles out of 50+ lost might be from the Mafia era. Amazing
How about u go succ some Famie PP 
light crystal
Ooh, asking for another warning
stable dawn
trail temple
Looks pretty toxic here
mint hornet
empty grove
flint python
leaden sky
candid sluice
meager valley
sour oasis
why everyone so hostile
Because the alternative is ||teamwork|| collusion
candid sluice
friendship can overcome any obstacle
whole salmon
candid sluice
well whoevers friendship is the strongest will win ofc
sour oasis
well whoevers friendship is the strongest will win ofc
It's not like we can all be friends
trail temple
Make Love, not Warcraft
oblique silo
Bruh
oblique silo
New meta. When Ardent sinks, enemies still shoot at her if she has that skin
worldly cape
Inb4 that doesn't get fixed like the glitch with Hiryuu's After School Bullies skin
(Her skin disables her status visual indicators)
sour oasis
My PvP is lagging; I can't tell when my main fleet is dead until I scroll over and see no one there.
crude mortar
crude mortar
sour oasis
"A".
sour oasis
Let's see what happens when you go against a real flex fleet.
ebon kraken
light crystal
A true AOTN is the one acquired by "accident", cuz you've bagged alot to the point that being 5/10 makes u top 10 anyway by friday 
candid sluice
i was 1 point away from aotn last reset
light crystal
Amagae super ded then
rich escarp
hmm....what sort of gun should I use for VV in pvp? is a triple 406mm mk 6 fine?
rich escarp
how about a triple 406mm /50 main gun mount
covert swallow
Not optimal. If u got 457, use that instead
he said VV not NJ
candid sluice
light crystal
Then 406mm is BiS I guess
Although, personally, I wouldn't +13 for PvP purposes only
457mm seems more future proof for PvP. If u dont care too much about PvP, then u should +13 it for PvE then, as it's best overall gun for DMG in there
candid sluice
rich escarp
It'll be good to know for later, I just slapped my only 457 on georgia so I'll have to wait a bit
light crystal
Yeah, I would say it'd be optimal to have 2 457's, but honestly, it'd be hard for the average player to one more than one
rich escarp
I think....they buffed the rate mats for it drop? It feels faster lately
black and white shell should be fine for VV, right?
rich escarp
experimental XSB3C in aquila second slot sounds like a good investment over another fighter, right?
light crystal
Hit rate with shelling against VG's can be somewhere in the 60%'s without buffing Hit. So instead of of hitting a "0" alotgter, trying to meet thresholds for Hit-rates is preferable, so use an HPFCR at least
Without it she doesn't even have a preloaded airstrike at the start, so it'd be asinine not to have a DB instead
rich escarp
Rip my electronics today, hah
light crystal
Like, should be a no-brainer tbh
Even for the purposes of PvE, you'd probably want her to have a DB at all times, unless you're trying to level someone else with her and trying to make sure she doesn't get MVP
rich escarp
Just making sure I wasn't making some huge mistake. When I first started pvp I had the pellet shell barrage gun on tosa in my fleet
Thank you so much for all the help!
worldly cape
Although, personally, I wouldn't +13 for PvP purposes only
I was going for the +13 in that gun for futureproof in OpSi
And the next boss is a BB(V), so it won't be used
light crystal
Differing priorities, that's ok 
Well, even for PvE, you'd have to consider if being better against Medium/Heavy over mainly Light, and vice versa, is better
trail temple
Top 10 for each server
coral wren
those are familiar names since they're active here 
btw, where is kanzaki erina? did he sacrifice by colluding with his friend kenny? if so, then i salute their friendship 
hot creek
QuadEnvy™
oblique silo
Did i just see DuoEnvy in 4 different servers
9 accounts
leaden sky
nice
candid sluice
im retired
candid sluice
but still got 6th
candid sluice
time to move to lex server
leaden sky
trail temple
btw, where is kanzaki erina? did he sacrifice by colluding with his friend kenny...
Eri went to the shadow realm, didn't pay much attention to AL this season
worldly cape
I only got 2567 because I was unlucky with my opponents
All of them were lazy af
And how the hell do you even break the 2600 barrier in a legit way?
candid sluice
friendship
stable dawn
insomnia
grizzled hemlock
friendship
collusionists*
frosty topaz
any way i can improve gears without having to change them for pve
duca can take whatever tho since i dont use her in pve
frosty topaz
i could also use this i guess https://azurfleetmaker.com/?fleet=dLNcmm
frosty topaz
i only have 1 black dildo
and no georgia gun yet
or extra HSFCRs...
why HSFCR on VV btw
oblique silo
To give her a preload
frosty topaz
it goes to 95%?
frosty topaz
so is speed not important with torpcancer? thats why no beaver or boilers
sour oasis
so is speed not important with torpcancer? thats why no beaver or boilers
As a defense for torpedoes, speed is a gamble. You're scattering tea-torps and you might be confusing regular homing, but if they have Duca, your vanguard may double back into them.
If you're the one using torpedoes, invest fully in offense and restart until the right defenders die immediately. If you're prioritizing the defending vanguard with torpedoes, you can give your backline ships speed boosts.
light crystal
Stack the PP
trail temple
sour oasis
No touch PPs when stacking.
mint hornet
light crystal
PP's of Friendship, Unite!
Spread the Gospel of NJ Manjuu to the masses
somber axle
Adding this Aoste guy to the shit list, filthy Famie worshiper.
leaden sky
candid sluice
crude mortar
candid sluice
Erika knows about lawnmowing strategy 
proper sorrel
minmax lawnmowing by also doing 2-1 at the same time
silent yew
main NJ, Percy, Richei
hmmmm. warkai and enty no longer that good?
and will helena sync with that team ? 👀
calm mica
Enty will probably be dead before she launches her first strike. warkai can still work though
light crystal
Forget about Helena. Just use Richy, WK and NJ
Level up a Juneau, and use alongside YKKZ and JDA
calm mica
I'd still recommend percy just for the reveal
light crystal
You don't need reveal
There's what, like 1CV/2BB comps nowadays? Just have 3 BB's (NJ and WK in this case can do, Richy would support and or go for VG) focus down NJ/VV
calm mica
I feel like if you let even one Aquila with wyverns go entirely unrevealed, you end up screwed unless their team sucks. There's also some people still using IJN. Just something to consider
light crystal
The issue with Perseus is she will be useless for 35s, and unless she does good DMG to VG, your whole backline DPs will go down to shit
calm mica
I don't think it'd be that bad. Not the best option, but she's still valuable in some matchups
light crystal
Against IJN it shouldn't be too bad either. WK/NJ would mow down Nagato, then NJ will begin focusing on VG
Provided you got good enough AA, u can weather Shinano/Hiryuu strikes
And once their VG is dead, they will be helpless with your VG breathing down their neck and your BB's just taking easy potshots (Cv's will get auto revealed at that point due to VG dead)
calm mica
You say that as if it's easy. YKK can still decide to be immortal very easily
Then you're letting unrevealed Hiryuu and Shinano go in on your whole team
It'd take a decent bit of resetting to get that strategy to work, I just think Percy would be more consistent
light crystal
🤔
dull hollow
i think most ppl here are just assuming
and not actaully eating un revealed hiryuu nano strikes
as someone who joined the preload meta late
let me tell you that those 2 will ohko ur entire front and usually take a backline off
also going 0 cv vs enemy cv means you are 100% relying on you to win the frontline exchange
nj's high shelling variance means youre really playing with fire there
esp if they have good speedy roach setup
granted these days
we have anchorage but
i havent tested her yet
so i cant say
but also most of us dont have anchorage up to snuff either
candid sluice
thats why im still using nano hiryuu with decent aa vg
that crash dmg gets slept on
light crystal
More like that whole comp is getting stepped on
But don't worry, I'm sure your Crash DMG will be your Lord and Savior in these trying times ||Implying it ever was||
candid sluice
i got higher eos score than you so its doing something right
flint python
light crystal
i got higher eos score than you so its doing something right <:YorkBruh:58862970...
Ok, Food-chan
candid sluice
youre more food than me 
flint python
trail temple
sour oasis
After Aquila, who makes the most of a wyvern?
quartz drum
sour oasis
Perseus?
Shinano I could see, but Perseus is just so her preload reveals enemy CV. Is her preload going to be worth the bit of damage versus say Shinano who.l definitely gets a visible boost.
oblique silo
Shinano is definitely better. I just don’t see any other CV being 3rd
quartz drum
and will helena sync with that team ? 👀
support in your team
light crystal
support in your team
60% of the time, or worse, if ur RNG says so
quartz drum
I think he doesn't need damage anymore, but needs support
candid sluice
problem with lena is shes utterly useless 40% of the time
silent yew
support in your team
ic
sour oasis
Shinano is definitely better. I just don’t see any other CV being 3rd
I have the opposite; I see all the HMS CVs as possibly a 3rd (Ark, Formi, Centaur) just on power. Perseus because of preload. And I've got nothing on the USS and Graf Zeppelin.
candid sluice
indepkai
sour oasis
I don't know enough about how she works.
candid sluice
launch fast
coral wren
silent yew
will lvl 106 aquila and lvl 100 VV and littorio be able to farm 12-4 safe?
meager valley
yes
sour oasis
launch fast
How fast? Preload fast?
candid sluice
How fast? Preload fast?
like 15-16 sec not preload
high rld + load time reduction skill
sour oasis
frail orbit
These guys saying some shit while having a scuffed team made of scuffed ships smh 🤦♀️
calm mica
candid sluice
karmic lake
sour oasis
When you have lemons, you just have to suck them.
calm mica
Thing is you can win with a scuffed team. Experimented with 3 BB myself recently. It needs a hard reset if you lose vanguard fight though. Even with perfect aux on them you'll lose it a decent bit of the time
Loss of vanguard battle must show results in the main fleet damage you earn instead, and with an unnoticed CV on the opposing team, it's not even a contest
karmic lake
When you have lemons, you just have to suck them.
mint hornet
karmic lake
calm mica
Load your pvp fleet with lemons for shell skins, guaranteed to win
sour oasis
Always was
dull hollow
im kinda gravitating towards 818 over wyvern for aquila
if you run rainbow HE vv ofc
cheeseing the opening salvo is a much better win condition imo
it's also why I like helena despite everyone railing against her
when she procs the power ceiling is way higher
than just bringing another generic tank who does literally nothing besides mill around
tho with pr4
our selection of tanks is improving
to be beyond "Seattle meatstick"
candid sluice
iriya is converting to 818 club
dull hollow
well only on my friends acc
coz she has no wyvern anyway
also my main acc still wont move off 818 because i run indekai
coz i have 3 wyverns
but only 1 rainbow HE
and i cba to move my gear around esp on the
JP server
candid sluice
do u even need to swap equips for jp pvp
dull hollow
nope
at least
not the way i setup my teams
other than putting the 457 back on NJ
that's all i do
and my middle vg unit
is always someone im leveling
rn it's skunk girl
flint python
jp pvp kekw
dull hollow
bro i am like
top 1 every single day by a huge margin
it's fucking aids
-1 2 to 3x
coz of NA sleep vs JP schedule
flint python
also I prefer 818 over wyvern in current vv nj aql comp tbh
flint python
what server u on
dull hollow
truk
candid sluice
time to move to jp and get top1 eos
dull hollow
ive always liked comps that have higher win condition spikes than comps that are "more consistent"
it's why i preferred double ryuusei for Release nakaga
or why I big brained using stukas over sbc2 just coz it reloaded faster
candid sluice
no definitely not
candid sluice
im a zoomer
candid sluice
backline?
flint python
locks on backline
flint python
that is still possible btw if you lag enough pepelaff
dull hollow
also back then the drop distance for ryusei was a bit different too
they tended to spawn directly on top
of the enemy
which means you could just get random frontline deletions
that and release nakaga did not have 120 uncap
and Aurora was just released
so frontlines would regularly disappear at 14s
meaning whichever nakaga launched first would win
thus my stuka meme
let me outrace all the sbc2 net deckers
candid sluice
was boiler and beaver a thing back then
flint python
boiler pog
dull hollow
yukikaze was the best roach
but even still with aurora and sendai
would disappear
back then
Wash + sodak was a counter to nakaga
but only if
you run a full torp 0 HP front
u would sack your front in 14s
enemy front mills around in front of ur DD gun bbs
disappear
and due to sodak HP soadk mechanic
u would win the shelling duel afterwards
candid sluice
ew the whifflord ones
dull hollow
didnt matter
back then vg were not roach
meta was aururoa sendai
with jintsuu usually
they get in range of US BB
they disappear
candid sluice
sendai flare
dull hollow
a lot of ppl thought
USN fleet was suppsoed to be tanky front
but that was useless
ur BB would just whiff
and u eventually lose by attrition
sacking ur front early
was key
the flipside tho was that comp was useless vs HMS
coz hms shelling was just too strong
thanks monarch
it was a good triangle counter
candid sluice
storytime with iriya 
dull hollow
nakaga for general use
USN > nakaga
HMS > USN
well, sort of triangle
then essex and centaur got released and
candid sluice
so rock paper scissors simulator
dull hollow
there was a good period of fun with 3 CV
jean bart poked her head in
then warspite and amagi came out and it all went to shit
and hiryuu kai
candid sluice
where richy
dull hollow
tho warspite kai's release saw a good number of non standard comps
candid sluice
i saw frenches made an appearance for some ime
dull hollow
Warspite + Akaga
was supremely funny
warspite + 2 bunny CV
also good itme
richeliue made a splash
was a good sidegrade to amagi hiryuu from what I remember
it didnt have a clear advantage but it did well
candid sluice
yea i remember struggling against richy sanrui fleets back when i was fairly new
was like sept or oct
dull hollow
reminds me of the good ole days of Jean Bart leveling cheese
jean bart + 5 ships u wantd to level
if u were willing to reset
could win vs anything if u brought decent enough units
the d30 fdg arms race
- rainbow ap gun
was a bit aids tho
esp if u faced vs the 1 lord per server guy
who somehow had 2 gunbs
beefore u even had 1
i rememebr facing fdg amagi warspite
back thencv detection didnt exist
guy had 2 Ap rainbows
took like 30 resets to win
dull hollow
dunno
i reember using VH azuma tho
idr why
i think it was coz
i would win front exchanges a lot
but then get melted by BB 2ndary
so i htought
ok
vh lets me mill around more
oh yah the azuma arms race was kinda aids too
flint python
VH aquila new meta
dull hollow
yah in hindsight i dont think it was very smart
it was also b.c
VH was better for azuma in opsi
and i was
lazy
i dont think ive ever used
def gear on my backline in pvp
just coz i didnt want to move my gear
when it comes to pvp i always favor high variance high spike comps coz I can just search for win condition; if i dont get it i just reset
finding the "highest/best" winrate comp is purely for academia data purposes; in practice resetting until you get what you want is probably gonna help you clear faster
Imagine watching out an entire battle to see if your NJ squeeking out a victory with manjuu
vs just running a helena pure dps comp and slamming at 20s (16) 60% of the time
i mean i get it, the former is fun to watch too
clutch long battles are entertaining
light crystal
Boomer talk 
calm mica
Boomers also had a meta
candid sluice
u cant fish for luccsac lena procs when youre 5min rushing tho
trail temple
Being 1st place everyday, that's a hint in itself
frail orbit
Imagine being No. 1 ||food|| forever, ||can't even fight for his own freedom||
trail temple
flint python
jp meta
candid sluice
kgv chinawall new meta?
trail temple
Should move to JP Salty, ez meta and you'll be able to show Quyet how to be a real tryhard
candid sluice
pass me an account with aquila ill consider it 
trail temple
Won't need Aquila
It's not like you're upgrading from Amagi, you're downgrading if anything
candid sluice
at least give me nano or nj
candid sluice
soo pow hyuuga fleets?
flint python
all you need in jp is warkai
frail orbit
north vine
flint python
wait what server does quyet play on
should've made another alt there
north vine
go ask him 
light crystal
Did u realized u posted that on wrong section? kek
calm mica
||yes||
flint python
pvp coins
dull hollow
No
There no way with the amount of -1 i chug
Coz i dump 10 hits every night
After 11pm reset for me
I dont track or try for+1s
Blowing 5 in morning and 10 at night
With 100 winrate
Means top10 in jp
candid sluice
do you guys think the submarine will be meta for pvp????
candid sluice
fuck wolfpack fish fleet is new meta
candid sluice
nautilus can with her aoa
stable dawn
trail temple
Embrace your inner lolicon
flint python
subs in pvp would be epik
quartz drum
sour oasis
Sub PR when
edgy cypress
bruh 😔
flint python
fought myself
calm mica
Trust nobody, not even yourself
jaunty finch
is there an up to date equipment guide for pvp?
candid sluice
not really
jaunty finch
what aux do you want to run on hiryuu/cvs in general
jaunty finch
okk, ty
jaunty finch
also I see some conflicting info, do you put manjuu on jeaneau?
royal oyster
conflicting info on who to put manjuu on. how is such a thing possible
candid sluice
depends if u feel your juneau dying too early or no
light crystal
conflicting info on who to put manjuu on. how is such a thing possible <:AkagiLU...
Famie boi and Friends will have u know the Manjuu goes on NJ
Personally, I would put on some one in the VG. If ur Juneau dies too quickly at the start for some reaosn, u can put it on her. Otherwise, on some other tanking ship, like Seattle, Birmingham, or Anchorage.
flint python
put on nj ofc
oblique silo
Put it on NJ if you have a smol pp
calm mica
Most ships should have a decent chunk of damage with 99% of people using Aquila, so unless Juneau dies in 1 second, it'll go on NJ or whoever in the vanguard
calm mica
But anyone running Suzutsuki can trade a boiler out for manjuu easily enough. Not like manjuu NJ is the one and only option
meager valley
theres no point to put it on Suzutsuki
well ig a little bit of a point cause the stats are good 
but you don't get the passive.
if i needed to put it on a vanguard, it'd still be Anchorage or Seattle.
calm mica
I meant put it in someone other than her. Like trade out a boiler on Seattle for manjuu
meager valley
oh
sullen sierra
was curious, know most people use at least one gyro on azuma for the hit, does that not apply to other PR vanguards like seattle?
flint python
people still uses gyro? people still use azuma?
light crystal
I never used Gyro
VG's job is to tank/stall for the Mainline usually, and besides the speed, Gyro was a wasted Aux on her imo
sullen sierra
ic, better to just use boilers?
er, better question, running Juneau/Duca/Seattle, how do you all usually build vanguard auxes?
light crystal
Bulge/Boiler on Juneau, Tears/Kicks on Duca, and Rudder/Manjuu on Seattle
calm mica
Boiler/Rudder Juneau, Tears/Badge Sandy, Boiler/Rudder Duca
I feel like the extra oomph of torps from Sandy pays out more than the AA from Seattle, but it's not a major difference
Actually, it's probably because I'm running 818. Sandy's torps fire before Duca's so Duca's slow ones end up landing a bit more easily I think. Haven't paid it much attention though.
sullen sierra
ty
sour oasis
people still uses gyro? ~~people still use azuma?~~
How else do you kill Juneau
||Is this McDonald's with new Pokémon cards?||
candid sluice
its the new meta
light crystal
frosty topaz
Is fdg still worth using in pvp
frosty topaz
what would be the strongest pvp fleet with Nimi in it?
sour oasis
what would be the strongest pvp fleet with Nimi in it?
Fleet power? The one where she's surrounded by five UR ships.
Win shares? Take whatever the current top meta is and knock out the weakest vanguard for Nimi.
frosty topaz
this perhaps? https://azurfleetmaker.com/?fleet=djiha5
sour oasis
this perhaps? https://azurfleetmaker.com/?fleet=djiha5
That's pretty strong. Note that if you want pure HP aux, Seal of Four God's (or any other SR aux that just boosts HP) does it better. Considering PvP fights last about a minute, the Toolbox recovery doesn't kick in more than 5% extra; a high performance rudder (higher Evasion is a losing dump, unless opponent is using accuracy buffs) or fire extinguisher (for HE shells) may be more helpful keeping Nimi alive.
Azuma isn't going to be the best partner to get wins sometimes just because PvP is biased against CA.
Consider other CL partners.
frosty topaz
what if i put beaver badge on Nimi
sour oasis
Worthwhile. The speed boost it provides still lasts after the ship carrying it sinks.
It also opens up a chance for your offensive ship to have an offensive aux. (Unless you need Azuma there that fight, in which the Badge provides her with a needed helpful boost)
frosty topaz
i already put oxitorps on duca
like this perhaps? https://azurfleetmaker.com/?fleet=NDoSfL
sour oasis
Nice. Solid "Plan B".
PvP defensive fleets are still kind of varied, so it's nice to have different offensive options.
Or get people to stop flexing
light crystal
I would also use other torps other than Tea torps, like quad mags
frosty topaz
i prefer teatorps for pve tho
light crystal
And Juneau/Duca/Z23, if u really want to use Z23 and still have good win rate...
Even for PvE, I'd still use Quad mags cuz of hit rate
Tea torps are only if u happen to manual...
frosty topaz
yeah im not that bad at aiming torps
light crystal
frosty topaz
probably worth noting that this would be for a defense fleet on amagi server
so winning everything isnt super important
just has to be enough to make people reset some times
covert swallow
I think I'd just quit the game if I ever had to reset against a nimi fleet
candid sluice
why do u have the nep barrage gun on luigi
frosty topaz
her barrage is pretty strong, no?
perhaps not for pvp i guess
should i run nepgun instead?
candid sluice
luigi gun dmg is strong where using a shitter gun just to proc aoas aint worth
use seattlegun or nepgun instead
frail orbit
Abruzzi gun
dapper patio
sour oasis
See, this is why I hate nicknames.
dapper patio
dull hollow
sry i peronsally prefer the Brooklyn gun
sour oasis
There's inconsistent consensus and I need a cheat sheet to associate the gun with the name (compared to the in-game name, which while also a pain to remember, it's at least easier to look up)
trail temple
When you have an easy 4 games in 4.5 minutes because someone decided to use manjuu on their NJ
calm mica
That sounds pretty long, actually
trail temple
Games were about 45s each max, got your 10 seconds loading per game and about 3 seconds each to go through the win screen
calm mica
That should still be under 4 minutes by the math. Also always impressed with how long load times are for some people.
abstract cypress
I think I'd just quit the game if I ever had to reset against a nimi fleet
fite me
kms fleet junk best fleet
calm mica
KMS only faction that can flex an all PR fleet, it must be the best
abstract cypress
cries in 0 luck
trail temple
That should still be under 4 minutes by the math. Also always impressed with how...
It is under 4 yes, but since I started around 4.5 mins to reset, I was using that time
candid sluice
my loading screens take at least 10secs
even then that shit can stay at 99.7% half the time
slender tartan
KMS bisko WNT , DR stat checking mafia fleets. getting good results so far. if only i had a better VG than double roons. gonna take a while maxing coffee-chan and agir tho
candid sluice
are you using white shell on bisko?
slender tartan
i usually have her with double shells cuz im lazy. but when facing mafia i have her WNT-rudder. i want to get her with WNT-HPFCR. but i dont have a second HPFCR . only one i have is on FDG. white shell-HPFCR i feel she gonna be too squishy to stand a chance against NJ and white shell-WNT will miss quite a bit probably since she IB.
dapper patio
what is the current top build in EN server 
trail temple
No def aux needed, just straight up FP on your BBs
frosty topaz
Just here to point out that +13 twin 380mm is actually kinda good for NJ in pvp
It has enough damage to keep up with her shelling efficiency but can still spit out barrages
And since her barrages target furthest behind its pretty good for shipping backline with Aquila and torps
clear briar
...why not use the twin 457mm?
clear briar
I'd rather use the AP Twin 406mm from Gear Lab
Sacrifice 20FP for 22 additional DMG per bullet
frosty topaz
twin 380 beats it at +13
dapper patio
if you have enough protocore, now it's a confirmed 457 in shop
frosty topaz
how the fuck do u get that much core
dapper patio
because i had fucked up all the PR 1 and PR2, and any additional BPs exchange all of them to protocore
and the PR1, PR2 exp books can exchange for protocore too
frosty topaz
i used those to skip fdg grind lmao
dapper patio
yes you can, if you are lazy to grind
crude jetty
So... what would be a good hms fleet rn?
hot creek
WS/Howe/NJ sorta works.
calm mica
NJ isn't HMS though
hot creek
NJ is inevitable
candid sluice
you automatically lose if u dont use nj
flint python
not on offense pepelaff
light crystal
NJ isn't HMS though
It is if you rename into an HMS name
WS/Howe/NJ, Juneau/Cheshire/Ancho
trail temple
Any ship is HMS/KMS/USN/IJN/etc. if you will it to be
In fact I saw a HMAS fleet the other day
candid sluice
i saw kaine use a pure french fleet and get eos
covert swallow
I finished the pvp boat, now what? 
candid sluice
120/200 her
trail temple
Lewding someone who has the personality of a child?
||I approve||
covert swallow
candid sluice
dont worry just equip the intelligence chip on her she will become big brain
frosty topaz
Get her to lvl 100 so u can mind break her
sour oasis
That should still be under 4 minutes by the math. Also always impressed with how...
I hate you just a little.
And people need to put up more Bullin defense fleets. Get people moving. When everyone drags, no one drags.
Worst thing to put out is a near-naked six 120 to tempt players to switching offense fleets to harvest xp.
calm mica
lol sorry. I personally give myself 5 minutes to do the last 3/4 I have left during the refresh while I'm working and always finish in 3 minutes or less. Glad exercises aren't as excruciatingly slow any more
worthy cave
What is the pvp meta nowadays (disclaimer: i know you can just put non-120 ships for exp in and still win 99% of the time)
sour oasis
What is the pvp meta nowadays (disclaimer: i know you can just put non-120 ships...
UR rarity, preload, invulnerability. It's still about equipment as much as ships.
flint python
worldly cape
In my opinion, the only stuff that might shake up the meta hard could be:
- New gear/skills that counter/negate preload
- A UR ship with preload
- UR ship that's an even better stat stick than NJ
dapper patio
well... i never gain exp via PvP
jaunty finch
i only have a +13 mk7 and +11 champy gun, for nj is there a big difference in dmg? what about at +13
sullen sierra
is it best to use double seattle guns on seattle or some other combo of something?
light crystal
In my opinion, the only stuff that might shake up the meta hard could be:
- New ...
If when you say preload you mean preload airstrike, the issue is that Anchorage sorta counters preload airstrikes now
Ships that have accelerated shelling/airstrikes that can attack outside Anchorage shield/smoke would be more desirable and effective, long run
worldly cape
Other thing could also be for example to add 3 items, that each disable a weapon system for both sides during the first 10-15s of the battle
But if both fleets have it, then the effects are nullified
calm mica
This would be best gear on Seattle. Her 2nd slot has low efficiency, so another gun would just be a peashooter. Fast load AA gun gives extra tank vs airstrike damage and help fire rate on the AA circle.
frosty topaz
i kept trying to make that case in gph but they just say im dumb
calm mica
Well, outside of pvp the chappy gun would probably be best 2nd gun for farming from the +45 FP. Just depends on what you're using her for
grim belfry
A friend asked me about making an all German PvP fleet. And I just want some advice. :3
Which of these ships should be in his PvP team?
I want to say for sure Bismarck, Z23 and Z1
light crystal
This would be best gear on Seattle. Her 2nd slot has low efficiency, so another ...
That's what I would use myself as well
candid sluice
A friend asked me about making an all German PvP fleet. And I just want some adv...
kms at least wants an fdg if not its gonna be a real uphill battle
rn their best backline would be smth like bisk graf tirp and front leip 46 23
crude mortar
iron stream
does NJ first barrage always target VG?
candid sluice
iron stream
better to get confirmation here than in the PvE channel
candid sluice
just hop in a match and look for urself lol
iron stream
gotta wait for refresh
light crystal
gotta wait for refresh
Random
crude mortar
which one generate more gem
i need gem to buy oil to lvling my pvp ship
mc donald or burger king?
@candid sluice
candid sluice
the pwofessionals say that mcdonald better for gem
kurger bing might be better for coin tho
candid sluice
yeah when they reach level cap and u need to lb or awaken
crude mortar
kk thx
candid sluice
When u have something like this u should switch to burgers
Because how are you supposed to progress otherwise
candid sluice
oblique silo
does NJ first barrage always target VG?
The AP has humanoid priority. The HE is random
calm mica
Came up with a good way to remember which is which. Burger 金 (kin/gold) would be for coins
sage flicker
Anyone have a guide on the best way to gear up the exercise fleet?
sacred heath
depends on who you're using, somewhat
sage flicker
My fleet is Nagato, Shinano, Hiryuu main and Juneau, Yukikaze and Azuma
sacred heath
that's a bit of an older setup but it can still do okay on attack
i used to use something similar
lemme see if i remember
light crystal
Switch out Azuma for Seattle or Anchorage at least
light crystal
Seattle or Anchorage would boost survivability overall, and also against preload/Avi.
sage flicker
Seattle is possible, but should I change my PvP fleet more?
light crystal
Probably, but it can be viable enough with swapping Azuma out for Anchorage instead, or Seattle
sacred heath
i mean ideally yes, the whole thing except juneau
but your current setup can still work
sage flicker
Not yet started on Anchorage, so too far still, but have almost every other ship
What is the meta/most ideal fleet?
sacred heath
something like NJ VV Aquila + Juneau Duca Seattle
light crystal
Ideally you'd run NJ/AQL/WK/VV/FDG/Richy as your backline, and Juneau/Anchorage/Seattle/Duca/YKKZ for VG.
sage flicker
The NJ VV Aquila is very possible to make, but what gear is optimal when I still lack access to any of the Gear Lab?
sacred heath
with your current fleet, gear would look something like this
but this is only a guideline. there's tweaks and options.
sage flicker
HPFCR?
light crystal
White Shells, Beacon, JetFuel/Avi tanks
light crystal
Boiler, Pearl, Bulge, DCP (Manjuu), Rudders/Beaver/Kicks
The general approach is to make your VG stall/tank, and for the Backline to do the DPS. VG can also go full DPS, but too risky and RNG
sacred heath
this is what my backline looks like
light crystal
PvP is not too complicated once you know the mechanics. The problem is that there's plenty of misguided and/or outdated information, or just plain misinformation, going around.
sacred heath
and this is vanguard. it's not 100% optimized but it works, and still gives people trouble on defense 
not that defense fleets matter, really, but yknow
sage flicker
True, tend to just use the same attack and defence fleet
But you prefer without Juneau?
sacred heath
personally, yes, although juneau would be more consistent than running naganami like i am
i'm handicapping myself because i hate juneau
but it still works
sage flicker
How would the gear look if you skip out on Naganami? Played for years, but mainly collecting, not really paying attention to gear yet
jaunty finch
what's the best team I can make without Italian ships, right now I am using hiryuu nj enterprise, Juneau agir noshiro
working on anchorage*
sacred heath
@sage flicker something like this but with juneau main tank and duca in middle
sacred heath
what's the best team I can make without Italian ships, right now I am using hiry...
do you have independence retro?
sage flicker
Thanks a lot! Given me a very good way to build forward!
jaunty finch
is that the one from core shop
sacred heath
yeah
jaunty finch
not yet, but was considering building her
sacred heath
she's fantastic in pve, and viable in a US pvp fleet
jaunty finch
who would I replace
sacred heath
hiryuu imo
sacred heath
idk, my agir's not even dev20 yet so i haven't looked at her. but def swap either agir or noshi for anchor
jaunty finch
I don't have anyone else that's y I'm using her lol
sacred heath
i'd probably say agir since her AP gun won't do much against vanguard
jaunty finch
and use similar equips as above?
sacred heath
honestly idk whether i'd put manjuu on anchor or juneau; i need to play with them
jaunty finch
do most people use all their attacks in the last 5 mins or something? I tried following the guide and attacking when I see opponents move but a lot of the times they just stay there and I don't get that many points
sacred heath
some people wait for the last moment
i check occasionally and see if people moved enough
and generally will go down to 5/10 like 30 min before reset
because i'm not that serious about pvp anymore
candid sluice
what's the best team I can make without Italian ships, right now I am using hiry...
im using zero italians in my fleet currently i can pass the builds over if u want it
light crystal
im using zero italians in my fleet currently i can pass the builds over if u wan...
Must suck not having pulled AQL
jaunty finch
im using zero italians in my fleet currently i can pass the builds over if u wan...
yes plz, thanks. although I just don't have most ships I mostly just have nj 
candid sluice
Must suck not having pulled AQL <:BuckyPride:666111441786372158>
shinei
light crystal
NJ/Indep/WK, Juneau + Ancho + Seattle/YKKZ are playable enough and top tier tbh
candid sluice
hold on lemme check my equips i forgot what they were
i have an indepkail build too somewhere
light crystal
jaunty finch
NJ/Indep/WK, Juneau + Ancho + Seattle/YKKZ are playable enough and top tier tbh ...
wk is warspite ?
hearty herald
for Buki in pvp do i give her the HMS MK IX or Quad mags?
candid sluice
i found more success with teatorps blacktorp
hearty herald
these?
candid sluice
yep
hearty herald
that's the ones i was talking about 
candid sluice
yea that with blacktorp is very epic
hearty herald
if i had blacktorp 
candid sluice
light crystal
sacred heath
flint python
sacred heath
rich escarp
so silly question, why is Seattle a "big thing" in pvp now? Is her AA super needed?
sour oasis
so silly question, why is Seattle a "big thing" in pvp now? Is her AA super need...
A few factors.
One is that she's a PR ship and not event locked.
Second, she's USS, so she gets a boost from NJ and possibly Helena.
Third, she's a tanky CL (as opposed to the torpedo magnet that heavy cruisers or mobile battleships like Azuma are).
Fourth, extra AA ain't bad when the threat of pre-loaded airstrikes are popular (a defending Seattle is still capable of holding down a defense in case you're throwing three BB at her)
TL;DR
Seattle is a non-event locked vanguard to deploy that's more annoying on defense than offense.
calm mica
Yeah, she's a good combo of everything you like to see on a vanguard ship. Light armor + high AA so less damage from airstrikes and torps. Add in the NJ and self damage reduction and you have more than you could ask for.
candid sluice
the best offtank ship we have right now
light crystal
that's what she said
safe meteor
hi
you think Italian fleet + NJ best, or are there better combinations?
like Richelieu FdG NJ or something
calm mica
Hard to tell who's the best in theory with multiple copies of the rainbow DB being entirely out of reach, but for the forseeable future, I'd say italian + NJ is best, yeah
If you had 2 of the rainbow DBs left, meta could maybe shift back to IJN but by then, something else will probably release that'll change it first
light crystal
Is Hakuryuu thought to be that broken? I've got my doubts. I think strong yes, but how OP are Tenrai on Haku, is the question.
calm mica
Was thinking about Hiryuu moreso than Haku. Almost guaranteed 2 airstrikes and then you get +20 avi and a better bomber
Probably not enough to make a difference on her own, but with one on Shinano too, could maybe eliminate VG a bit better, then rely on the wyvern crash to soften main fleet for NJ to sweep
light crystal
Hahaha, yeah, then no
First of all, Hiryuu's DB kit is pitiful to make good use of a Tenrai
Shinano, ok, more respectable
Haku, however, more optimal
Haku's optimal setup would probably be Wyvern/Tenrai/Wyvern. Could also go Wyvern/Tenrai/Tenrai, I guess.
candid sluice
thats a good way of having a 24sec airstrike load time
edgy cypress
😔
calm mica
Look, I'm not calling you dumb, but... You do realize 2 airstrikes of a divebomber at 115% efficiency > 1 airstrike of a divebomber at 130%/150%, right? You can't assume you get infinite airstrikes in pvp
Also the original point was that 2 Tenrai is already way out there. Putting 2 on Haku and a 3rd on another is going further off the deep-end
sour oasis
you think Italian fleet + NJ best, or are there better combinations?
like Richel...
NJ+Italy covers most situations. 🤌
But there is a bit of rock paper scissors; against a 3 BB fleet, they might lose vanguard fast, and a 3 BB fleet might lose to 3 CV (and that 3 CV fleet will lose to a 2BB+CV)
safe meteor
how are 3 BB losing to 3 CV?
calm mica
Maybe if the offense team is 3 BB. I doubt you're losing vanguard faster against a 3 BB defense considering Aquila's preload
safe meteor
if you wipe their vanguard before they do yours, your vanguard cant really die anymore
and we only have 2 carriers with pre load
sour oasis
Might.
candid sluice
you give too much credit to aquila preload
calm mica
Don't give her that much credit. Just more than a BB that doesn't shoot vanguard and will shoot water 15 seconds in
light crystal
Ok, Mr Hiryuu fan
trim bough
is this team good?
light crystal
Switch out Sandi for Juneau and it's ok
candid sluice
yea thats solid already
trim bough
frosty topaz
was shig ever popular in pvp
trail temple
As in Shigure?
coarse hearth
guys, i just wonder why NJ so deadly against my vg btw?
Does it bcoz of her early barrage like richy ?
I just not bright enough to figure it out 
candid sluice
Is your vg slow
midnight heron
standard case of bad rng 
sour oasis
was shig ever popular in pvp
No. She's a shadow of Yukikaze at best.
sour oasis
guys, i just wonder why NJ so deadly against my vg btw?
Does it bcoz of her earl...
Is it just NJ or are you eating like three barrages?
frosty topaz
No. She's a shadow of Yukikaze at best.
Wouldn't she be good with yuki for torpcancer fleets
With jintsuu or something
sour oasis
Wouldn't she be good with yuki for torpcancer fleets
There's better alternatives though. Even discounting event ships like Noshiro and Duca IL Abruzzi (Luigi), Ibuki, Jintsu (requirement for ♋), Sendai to an extent...
Shigure is very flimsy as a ship (especially as a DD), something Yukikaze (with some luck) can at least mitigate.
Short of it: Shigure is a 3rd string alternative (at best) for PvP.
delicate egret
candid sluice
if u dont have the most optimal choices then i guess u could run her in a scuffed torpmeme fleet
but she was never the best option so she was never used
sour oasis
Someone scuttled Naganami just because she wasn't an SR...
frosty topaz
flint sun
oh IJN is back to being the best meta again?
light crystal
oh IJN is back to being the best meta again?
calm mica
It's transformed into IJNJ
inner quiver
which torps should i use for pvp
candid sluice
on who and what fleet
flint sun
Oh I said that cuz I saw ijn related stuff lol
spark locust
which torps should i use for pvp
purple torp at +3 is OP as hell
mine's still at +2
building it up
takes a while given that the purple torp uses over 100 T4 parts 
inner quiver
on who and what fleet
on the vanguard ships that are good in pvp
candid sluice
either magtorps or teatorps then if no specific ship