can't snipe CV anymore unless percy spots for her
#pvp
elder crane
and even that's questionable cause now you're running percy
it can work if you set team up well, but would say it's low on the req vs efficiency scale
also is extra vulnerable to torpmemes
flint sun
Guess I gotta build Nogtomato
sour oasis
Actually Warspite is pretty high up to stop Nagato now (does IJN buff stop when she sinks?). But when 3 CV defenses start rolling in, it's going to be hard on most BB.
light crystal
Actually Warspite is pretty high up to stop Nagato now (does IJN buff stop when ...
Nagaloli can b ded and Effect still up.
elder crane
Actually Warspite is pretty high up to stop Nagato now (does IJN buff stop when ...
Ye sniping Nagato... really doesn't do much by itself
as Exc says, Nagato buff is permanent, and she's pretty much entirely a buff stick
That's why I'm super skeptical about IJN 3 CV setups, cause Nagato buff > any CV I can think of pretty much
even if you're talking Shinano AKaga, maybe Nagato Shinano Musekagi is just better
radiant brook
So if you don't have Nagato/richy you're just fucked?
Warspite got killed by stealth
flint sun
I dont have x
candid sluice
Then you cannot pvp
delicate owl
So if you don't have Nagato/richy you're just fucked?
you getting aotn two seasons ago proves that nobody is doomed when they don't have nagato/richelieu 
candid sluice
Speaking facts 
radiant brook
More like being lucky
I failed to get it last season with better conditions
2 loss instead of 3 and a +9
So that puts me in a 10 point advantage compared to 2 seasons ago
sour oasis
"Get lucky" is one of the common maxims of the gatcha world.
Skill and planning only go so far.
radiant brook
Wdym by maxim? The sole determining factor?
somber axle
Only AoTN is a low bar to clear, blaming it on luck is a defeatist outlook.
candid sluice
Gatcha and luck to hand in hand
U can’t have one without the other
Well maybe luck but u know what I mean 
Aotn doesn’t ever require a ton of luck
Eos does
sour oasis
Maxim. Motto. Adage.
But yeah, luck is pretty much the most important factor.
radiant brook
Guess last season is just really unfortunate 
sour oasis
There you go.
royal oyster
there is approximately 0 luck involved in getting aotn
radiant brook
2 losses = no AoTN
3 losses and a +9 = aotn
?????
somber axle
Bad planning and poor fundaments.
sour oasis
there is approximately 0 luck involved in getting aotn
Given this is going to be a 2 maintenance season, we'll see how that holds.
royal oyster
if you're borderline, follow the pvp guide's advice and use all your tickets beforehand
sour oasis
Like what most sports teaches: it's better to be good than lucky, but even if you're not good lucky will still get wins.
candid sluice
As long as you play and win your exers it’s not difficult to get aotn 
Missed a few exers? Gotta bag for a bit to make up for those lost points
light crystal
That's why I'm super skeptical about IJN 3 CV setups, cause Nagato buff > any CV...
FM + SKK = 20% AVI damage bonus, except missing the Reload/Hit buffs
And u tradeoff ||a useless slot that is|| Nagato for SKK which has a good plane loadout for Wyvern usage
So I can deffo see it being a thing that way.
candid sluice
Wyverns are just that busted enough to replace nagato
leaden sky
Until UR AAgun comes 
trail temple
+fp +hit
mint hornet
candid sluice
trail temple
light crystal
radiant brook
ripe latch
trail temple
For some...
radiant brook
ripe latch
candid sluice
I smell a 🦵 🚪
ionic hill
so how do you achieve 19000 main fleet power tho
covert swallow
Uhhhh 
candid sluice
Rainbow equips and +13s
clear briar
What is this
4 seconds Takao?
ripe latch
clear briar
You need to at least achieve 6k on all of the backline ships individually
How do ya do that
'Cause I don't see a FDG there
candid sluice
Two +13 457s and a +14 wyvern
midnight heron
elder crane
FM + SKK = 20% AVI damage bonus, except missing the Reload/Hit buffs
Losing reload/hit is quite a big deal though
And you become extra vulnerable to torps
Don't forget FM is symmetric as well, and given BB team doesn't exist, you're boosting them too
twin vortex
Is possible power MF can reach 19,4k ?
elder crane
And since they'll get first strike off due to Nagato....
Naw
Must be a bug or something
twin vortex
I see
ripe latch
Bugato 
covert swallow
Is possible power MF can reach 19,4k ?
someone above you linked the same person at 19k
like blue said, prob just some bug or something
twin vortex
someone above you linked the same person at 19k
Ah, thanks for information
radiant brook
Holy shit 3/3 Dev 30 DR team 
covert swallow
candid sluice
Bulin
light crystal
And since they'll get first strike off due to Nagato....
I dont think who goes first would matter when you're gonna be hitting considerably hardr than them
I do not believe Hit matters when u can just use two mikes if u need to, and so its just a matter of ur airstrike being 1s behind or so
elder crane
Doesn't matter if they can already kill your vanguard is my concern, especially since aviation pioneer gives them +10% CV dmg too and no WNT means torps will hit harder
If your airstrike hits right as your vanguard dies, it does almost no damage to their vanguard as it moves forward, even worse than if vanguard is already in your face
Also idk if you can even get skk buff up in time? Probably have to beacon her
Esp a concern vs torpmemes I think
And hit still matters
Second mic just straight up worse for dmg than catapult is due to reduced scaling
Nagato hit buff doesn't suffer from that much cause it also boosts mic +hit
I'm interested in that team but with -Hiryuu instead of -Nagato
What with most matches being decided by vanguard living/dying, idk if final counter is good enough anymore
-Hiryuu +Musekagi seemed to work well, but also not really better I think?
+Skk or maybe even +Lusty seems interesting though
Another thing I might try later is running something similar to Helena comp, stack CV boosters to trade off vanguard then win cause you did more dmg to their main
But ofc offense will need something more consistent than Helena
crude mortar
just lvling everything to 120
elder crane
Idk if anything worth running like that exists tho
crude mortar
elder crane
Sirius is okay but I have doubts if her buff is enough
Hmm, maybe can just try to maintain stealth with 3 CV 3 Wyvern?
Alternatively maybe try 3 CV with Musekagi?
Nano Hiryuu Musekagi with Juneau Sirius and, Seattle I guess?
Reload might be an issue though, need to strike before you lose stealth
And ofc the vanguard issues I mentioned earlier, meh
Though Musekagi would help vs torps at least, I think
Ye I think I might try that next instead
Nano Hiryuu Musekagi Juneau Sirius Seattle with aviation pioneer
leaden sky
arent ur vanguard too easy to kill with sirius there, and not to mention speed wise
elder crane
Speed is fine given 2 CL Azuma is okay, is same base speed as CL DD Azuma too
Seattle will have to carry on the tanking front ye, though their vanguard should be dead after 25 s so doesn't need to hang on that long
Sirius dying is kinda fine since her buff remains
leaden sky
true, but dying too early means ur main would be prone to all those attacks
elder crane
Another thing I might try later is running something similar to Helena comp, sta...
This is the intent
Both vanguard die
You win off Hiryuu vs Hiryuu since you did significantly more dmg to their main
That's how the Helena comp works rn but only 60% proc so mostly just good for defense
leaden sky
oh it's for offense, make sense
elder crane
Anyways you pointed out the main concerns
Need to make sure vanguard doesn't die too early, need to make sure you do wipe their vanguard, need to make sure you actually get enough of a dmg advantage
candid sluice
Using sirius? She feels really squishy
leaden sky
ye a bit of a trade off for her avi+hit buff, tho need a lot of tries to see if it's worth to slot her in there
upper cove
Sirius does her job great
It's not like there's not enough room for your vg to live with sirius there
light crystal
@elder crane i already did the math
No beacons nedded at all
Just suisei/vf17 on skk, gold hd and tigercat(s) the others
sour oasis
Bad planning and poor fundaments.
Victory is always through power, persistence, or luck. When someone is lacking in powerful equipment, slacking in variety of ships, they rely solely on.. Getting lucky.
elder crane
Just suisei/vf17 on skk, gold hd and tigercat(s) the others
No, as in skk buff before enemy strike wave hits your vanguard
light crystal
Well, the defence buff is just cherry on top
Ur taking her mainly for fat dmg buff in everyone, she ijn for shinano buffs, and 4 tb slot w 150% eff
elder crane
Still very skeptical on it coming out early enough, esp vs torpmemes
Also would rather just use Musekagi to maintain stealth for a bigger boost
Skk is around +13% dmg for CV or less (+10% on 100%-20%-15%+10%=75%, without WNT is 90% so +11%), Stealth maintain is minimum +25% pretty much given air resist usually at least 60%
light crystal
Well, otpimally ud want 4 wyvern, but gonna begin testing w 3 in 2 or so months
elder crane
Wait actually
Idk if Musekagi works
Will have to check if can reasonably make her launch fast enough without Nagato
trail temple
I am quite interested in the comp, the precision of the timing is a bit annoying but eh. One thing I don't know, and I am too lazy to do the math on it, is at what point are you over killing the vanguard? If you only need Nagato boosting your 3 wyverns to wipe out the vanguard and put you in the final counter lead, then Nagato would be better because the carriers will launch first. Shoukaku's defence buff should launch at around the 21-22s mark which should be in time for Hiryuu's launch. As stated earlier, triple cv with fm is worse vs torp meme than our current comp because lack of wnt, and fm also boosts the defender's carriers too so you'll have the initial memes at the start and another wave when their carriers launch.
Having said all that, should shinano + Hiryuu not be sufficient and having Shoukaku be enough to put their Hiryuu in final counter, then that may change my mind. Will be interesting to see when we do actually have enough wyverns to get some emperical data.
ramblings from someone who just woke up
light crystal
Overkill ain't bad imo 
clear briar
Well, otpimally ud want 4 wyvern, but gonna begin testing w 3 in 2 or so months
Kill me when people get their 4th Wyvern 
light crystal
Besides, also keen to try Kaine's comp (Essex/Ent/Cen)
It's pretty nice that there's some diversity now with ships. The WS meta, while effective, got a bit old after a while cuz it revolved around the one ship (As much as I liked WS). I think I was among the early adopters to Shinano/Hiryuu comp before Stealth was a thing, put Rudders on those suckers. Stealth hit, switched Rudder for Bacon lol
clear briar
That's a win I guess
light crystal
But being able to run different CV's now for diversity and still being efficient, makes it feel nice cuz it's flexible
clear briar
You're no longer limited to just 10 meta ships
light crystal
You're not really tied to the one or two ships. Besides Jesus, but Jesus has been a thing since day one and only got stronger with DCP lol
unreal storm
who is jesus? juneau?
trail temple
Overkill isn't bad no, but if you can achieve the same result but faster, then that will be the better option
light crystal
light crystal
Overkill isn't bad no, but if you can achieve the same result but faster, then t...
I strive for consistency over kill times 
clear briar
Experimenting Using Ibuki for this season instead of Jesus, double parallel torps 
light crystal
I value the option that allows me to reset less 
clear briar
Only Lv109 
sudden hinge
Only Lv109
clear briar
I level ships super slow
Only oathed her yesterday
|| Totally not a casual pretending to be a tryhard ||
sour oasis
You're no longer limited to just 10 meta ships
There's 10 meta ships?
sacred heath
where's naganami and jintsuu 
radiant brook
All but 1 are IJN
sour oasis
What about Richelieu
radiant brook
Richy is less common because that requires taking away nagato
sour oasis
I also use Suzutsuki, Jeanne d'Arc, Eldridge, Helena, Enterprise...
clear briar
Eldridge isn't meta
That's for sure
She's just a nuisance
light crystal
Juneau, Azuma, Noshiro, YKKZ, Suzutuski, Seattle, Naganami, Nagato, Shinano, Hiryuu, the Foxes, Makagi(?), Centaur, Enterprise, and the Essexes.
Those are the tried and proven ships atm
Leipzig is also good
sour oasis
If she's a nuisance, she's probably meta 
clear briar
If she's a nuisance, she's probably meta <:PrinzLaugh:588629691468873730>
Torps and HE wreck her
radiant brook
Eldridge is also rng
light crystal
Some use Helena, yes.
sour oasis
Torps and HE wreck her
They also wreck Yukikaze
clear briar
Plus she can't deal damage
radiant brook
I still use helena because I can reset until the debuff procs 
sour oasis
Plus she can't deal damage
Juneau doesn't really either
If she's a nuisance, she's probably meta.
clear briar
Juneau doesn't really either
Juneau has a 25% heal to the whole fleet 
sour oasis
If she was an afterthought, that'd be different.
light crystal
Juneau also has AA, lots of it
sour oasis
Eldridge has hyped up evasion in between perfect evasion. Just rely on your backline.
light crystal
So she's more than just the Heal in the current meta.
clear briar
I didn't mean a big nuisance
It's similar to running an Enterprise with Elite Damage control Manjuu
sour oasis
light crystal
And on top of the Heal and AA, she's also got DCP to tank alot.
So like, she pretty OP atm lol
sour oasis
Elite Repair Manjuu can be used by Helena or Eldridge too. (Just for kicks)
sour oasis
Helena also has that torpedo defense skill
I get that Eldridge is a low nuisance, but to me, that she's still someone who has a chance of wrecking your team if you sleep on her, warrants keeping an eye open.
trail temple
Eldridge has to take damage to proc her skill, so during manjuu it won't proc
I strive for consistency over kill times
Not the point I was trying to make, at all.
light crystal
So u were making a line intead? Very creative of u 
trail temple
Please, has to be a plane at the very least
light crystal
Planes are made from lines, yes
trail temple
Yes, lines, not a line 
light crystal
🛩️
candid sluice
elder crane
There's 10 meta ships?
Juneau
Azuma
Yukikaze
Suzutsuki (?)
Leipzig
Seattle
Helena
Sandy (?)
Noshiro
Naganami
Jintsuu
Ibuki (?)
Nagato
Amagi (?)
Shinano
Hiryuu
Warkai
Perseus
FdG
Enterprise
Essex
Intrepid
Musekagi (?)
Oh right I forgot USN team, added
candid sluice
As long as u don’t send it here it’s fine
light crystal
Juneau
Azuma
Yukikaze
Suzutsuki (?)
Leipzig
Seattle
Helena
Sandy (?)
Noshiro
Nag...
Forgot Centaur.
radiant brook
Is centaur considered meta now?
light crystal
She's pretty good
I've tested myself, and someone else has been using her along with Essex/Enterprise, and the proof of concept is there
I imagine if you slapped 2-3 Wyverns on top, they'd actually be really good. I'm talking 95% WR against the current meta sorta deal here (On Attack), so that's good enough to consider meta imo
sour oasis
Wyvern da real champ
radiant brook
candid sluice
elder crane
and this is another reason why you don't run 3CV
light crystal
I admit this could be an issue, however heavy BB comps are rare anyways
trail temple
Lots of things can be good, but not necessarily meta
elder crane
~~I admit this could be an issue, however heavy BB comps are rare anyways~~
is it as rare as losing to a proper meta team 
actually nvm, we're starting to get a fair number of HMS torpteams these days
radiant brook
Those who give a shit about PvP are usually around long enough to have black torps
light crystal
But unless we get Percy rerun, we're not gonna have more black dildos for a hot minute 🤔
sacred heath
Problem with black torps is they were from D1 when everyone was farming D3
Hardly anyone went out of their way to get more
I got one extra. Wish I had a third.
glossy meteor
hey guys what is the reasoning for enty taking damage from contact?
sacred heath
Ramming damage?
glossy meteor
ya
i lost a round cause the enemy van was still alive and i was low when luckyE proc
so why does she take damage from ramming
sacred heath
Oh, during lucky E? She probably was on fire.
She evades all incoming damage but can still take fire damage
glossy meteor
i thought it was only contact
glossy meteor
so is that it or any other ways she takes damage
cause i am pretty sure it was ramming LuckyE proc and i was against bel and Cheshire
sacred heath
Flooding and fire are the only two I remember.
candid sluice
She can also get rammed during lucky e
radiant brook
@glossy meteor Lucky E gives perfect evade, ramming ignores it
candid sluice
They’re different skills
glossy meteor
<@553055971748872223> Lucky E gives perfect evade, ramming ignores it
so basically she gets evasion not invuln what was the reasoning for it tho
balance?
candid sluice
Who knows really
glossy meteor
also doesn't counter activate invuln for 14 sec
candid sluice
15
glossy meteor
why
candid sluice
Historical reference
sacred heath
Why not 
glossy meteor
i get it but 15 i thought it was 14
sacred heath
glossy meteor
ok i get the history reference but seriously 15 my gosh
the only thing that comes close is luckyE but again evasion not invuln
candid sluice
That’s why she’s used a lot in exers
The skill pretty much never sees use outside of pvp
glossy meteor
i guess that is the price to pay for such a skill
but why is one invuln and the other evasion
sacred heath
Who knows
candid sluice
Ask the devs
glossy meteor
this is going to sound stupid but how do i do that like in game, discord, email
slate garden
triple black torp gang 
radiant brook
Probably because of launch spaghetti coding
ripe latch
pve on pvp 
light crystal
Hardly anyone went out of their way to get more
Well, I did
I saw them as a cheap alternative to rainbow dildos from Core shop, and being gold instead of rainbow meant easier on the Aux plates too
So I farmed 4 + 1 freebie from shop for 5 total
I remember ppl like Bluerendar back then were like "Yeah, those black torps rnt that useful, dont go out of ur way to get those". Good thing I didn't listen
candid sluice
I literally just joined when that event was running
stable dawn
I was in the middle of a state-wide power outage during the first week of the event, so it's honestly a miracle I could even get 2
mega unlucky
glossy meteor
<#468804193646542849>
Ah thanks
sour oasis
but why is one invuln and the other evasion
One is perfect evasion, the other is a death knell. I assume Final Counter was supposed to activate upon death (akin to Juneau's martyr). However it activates upon "killing blow" (and Hiryu can be healed during) having a pure invincibility window and then still being alive.
If Final Counter gets nerfed, it'll be when it turns into Elite Repair Manjuu: causes Hiryu to sink immediately after activation.
radiant brook
I mean, make it work like manjuu is what happened irl though
Launches last strike to Yorktown, then killed by enty
sour oasis
🍝
Chances are the devs didn't figure how to code it like that until Elite Repair Manjuu
When the Manjuu first came out, it would flag instant sink before the invulnerability window, which lead to some interesting Juneau moments.
glossy meteor
It's a miracle that the italian ships aren't going berserk with how much spaghetti there is
glossy meteor
<@553055971748872223> also, is that a holy potatoes avatar?
Yes
,
He is the junk bag
Or potatoes
Someone called him meatball
ripe latch
en analytics
remote sage
how's jintsuu ibuki yukikaze? would ayanami or someone else fill ibuki's role better?
I learned about eldridge the other day, they seem good against triple cv enemies to evade the first airstrike
hmm ibuki is a CA thought she was CL, so she doesn't get any pvp buffs, the 20% damage from CL might have been really good
light crystal
If u want to use Ibuki, u really wanna use Noshiro
remote sage
don't have that one yet, started playing shortly after that event so might not get it for a long time
say I want to keep jintsuu, and yuki are there several other good ones to fill slot 3?
like I know about eldridge, and june, I've been using roonu, but idk
tbh I'm not really sure I understand the torp meme, feels like all my torps miss, every time, and what kills the enemy vanguard is my FP and CVs
candid sluice
Are u trying to go full torpmeme? Then naganami
Optimal torpmeme vanguard is noshiro naganami jintsuu
remote sage
i started during the shinano event, specifically the hunter event right before that, I don't have either of those two limited ships
is there a FP meme with 3 CL? sandy helena and neptune or something? I've never see it in enemy fleets
candid sluice
Eh not really since your backline will be doing the most dmg if not your torpedoes
The vanguard is there basically to stall and let your backline get another round of shots off
remote sage
I have a weird issue with my backline
I use shinano with ryuseis exclusively for opsi/meta every day
when I bring her to pvp with ryuseis you can imagine
I've tried juggling equipment a couple times and it ruined a couple runs when I'd go into opsi/meta with cudas
so I've been wondering if I can just take shinano out of pvp, maybe use ark meta with wyvrens or something idk
does a triple bb backline work with monarch/warspite/doy? dunno how enemy cv stealth would get broken that way and if it'd be really bad
candid sluice
Triple bb has a really rough matchup against carriers because of that stealth mechanic ye
Tho perseus and warspite duo works
Shinano is just so extremely powerful in exercises there really isn’t anything that replaces her
lethal tapir
do you use different equips on ships for pvp? are there some niche equips i should keep just for pvp?
elder crane
do you use different equips on ships for pvp? are there some niche equips i shou...
Let's see,
On CV, British parallel TBs used for high crash dmg, over aimed TBs, and Mics, used for +hit (in PvE almost nothing has enough evasion for this to be worth)
On BB, Washington Naval Treaty is more a CA equipment for PvE for the stats, and Nelson flag is rarely useful in PvE. Any other +evasion similar.
On standard vanguard, Pearl, engine, and somewhat Manjuu are almost never used in PvE
On torpmemes, you almost never run blacktorp in PvE
north vine
nelson flag fdg in pve works tho
north vine
its pretty much the same thing in pve for torp meme unless you cater for that small diff overtime
radiant brook
+10 manjuu can be a replacement for a +10 toolkit
And allows you to survive attacks like mark blade storm
candid sluice
I use manjuu on helena in ex
north vine
but is EX even "pve"
lethal tapir
Let's see,
On CV, British parallel TBs used for high crash dmg, over aimed TBs, ...
wow thanks alot for the detailed explanation..by pearl you mean gyroscope btw?
north vine
wow thanks alot for the detailed explanation..by pearl you mean gyroscope btw?
pearl is pearl's tear
lethal tapir
ah i see, i dont think i have that one
candid sluice
EX is one of the few things in pve that requires me to manuel and actually entertaining
lethal tapir
this manjuu?
candid sluice
No no the collection rewards
For Yorktown class carriers
Gives 8 sec immunity to uss ship equipped with it
north vine
EX is one of the few things in pve that requires me to manuel and actually enter...
but is she lv 1 tho 
lethal tapir
ohh i see, i found the pearls tear in collection too
gotcha
i didnt realise theres so many good equips in collection xD
i only recently learned about the beaver badge
and now these 2
candid sluice
Yea there are some nice pvp equips from collection
Washington naval treaty being another notable one
crude mortar
lethal tapir
and it looks like pearl's tears is basically meta on juneau since its the same as her skill
north vine
how many wyvern 
candid sluice
Intrepid outdmging essex
shy hazel
trail temple
@elder crane For Makagi, would you suggest microphone on her still? (Paired with nagato)
elder crane
<@!430396894993186816> For Makagi, would you suggest microphone on her still? (P...
I had her beacon since otherwise even 120/200 with Nagato she launches too slow for AA (to intercept 10 s interception exchange triggered by Hiryuu barrage) with VF-17/XSB3C/Wyvern
If nonoath I think you'll need beacon and Firefly if you still want full AA loadout
elder crane
Ikr
candid sluice
ripe latch
light crystal
Let's just say I like having options.
ripe latch
fake cat carry 
sour oasis
wow the manjuu sounds kinda OP, 8 seconds of free time
Not entirely free; after 8s your ship auto sinks (even if they recovered some HP in that 8s)
sour oasis
Let's just say I like having options.
Almost thought that was a Genshin lineup
ripe veldt
is this an actual comp
give or take im running semi-meme vanguard to level up but getting facerolled in 10s
sacred heath
i mean it looks like a free win to me
radiant brook
No hiryuu, no Juneau, no black torp
Easy win
Also it might be a serious threat if he replaced enty with warspite
covert swallow
sandy seems pretty good to me in pvp currently, am I missing something?
candid sluice
Sandy isn’t a terrible pick tbh
elder crane
Not for this team imo
light crystal
is this an actual comp
Literally swap Roon for Juneau, and it's something at least lol
"Viable"
Cant imagine not using Perseus for PvE tho, so I dunno how ppl can stand putting PvP gear on their Perseus. Probably not even tryharding PvP kits either anyway 
Well, they'd put wut, Beacon and JetFuel? And Fast Figther and Wyvern? Not the worst I guess
candid sluice
Swapping equips is a thing
covert swallow
I use shinano with double steam cata for pvp
because I don't feel like swapping aux
light crystal
I put Bacon on my Percy for PvE lel
light crystal
To get a second heal sometimes
covert swallow
candid sluice
Double cata is the way to go for all pve
U don’t need to heal if u wipe out the whole fleet
light crystal
Battles usually end around 40s, so every little bit u can do to get a second airstrike for another heal in is nice sometimes
candid sluice
I usually get a third heal off without beacon
light crystal
Second airstrike comes in around 34s like this
In PvP I assume Percy mortality rate ain't high to get a second strike in, is it
sinful pewter
I mean, It's not like you're using your pvp gear on anyone else, so as long as you have the sets saved it's no effort to switch
candid sluice
Sometimes she can get off another strike but very rarely from my experience against her
In pve I swap my wyvern and sea hornet onto Percy and use ryuuseis on my shin kinda a pain to swap between them but it’s whatever
light crystal
I dont use Shinano in PvE
elder crane
Cant imagine not using Perseus for PvE tho, so I dunno how ppl can stand putting...
Ye that's literally just the PvE loadout so...
Also idk about fast fighter
Would rather just run strong one gvien reloading at like 34 vs 36 s doesn't matter
light crystal
But muh second heal
candid sluice
Yeah I’d rather get faster clear times
Sea hornet wyvern with double catas puts in work
light crystal
But I already have fast clear times, to the point I need to compete to squeeze out that second heal 
Imagine using Wyvern for PvE 🤔
candid sluice
If u have fast clear times u don’t need the second heal
candid sluice
Imagine using Wyvern for PvE 🤔
Only for mob battles
light crystal
No, as in, wasting it on PvE instead of PvP lol
light crystal
I would use Wyvern on PvE if the supply were there
Maybe after I get my 4/5th Wyvern and beyond
elder crane
No, as in, wasting it on PvE instead of PvP lol
If you run percy Pvp too is not a waste
elder crane
Also on second strike/heal
34 s vs 36s doesn't really matter?
Not like there's dmg burst at that window
So either heal will go off anyways or not go off anyway
light crystal
🤷♂️
candid sluice
How is it wasted I can always swap equips
light crystal
Swapping kits 😬
north vine
be a brave man and run percy sea horny/wyvern/staag + mic/avgas on pve as well
candid sluice
Tryharding in pve
crude mortar
@trail temple are you there
trail temple
Now I am
light crystal
Encapsulates Nagato's existence ||Or lack thereof||.
supple solstice
what fighter is better for akaga fleet tigercat or sea hornet?
ripe latch
use mix
supple solstice
tiger and sea one each sister?
candid sluice
If your other planes are different then sea hornet is the way to go
But if you’re using barracuda tb on both then mix of those two fighters
granite flame
ebon kraken
ripe latch
light crystal
Ud use tigercat for timing purposes, mostly.
coral wren
Thoughts?
Nanoda
Helena
Sandy
Richy
Hiryuu and OWAERIDA
Sorry for image spam
Should sandy be swapped for someone else
Or is her AA really good in pvp
midnight heron
u're gonna get rekt by any decent 120 fleet
midnight heron
more than likely theyre using trashy equips
zenith tundra
from when assorted things is an actual comp?
test at least vs some bad equipped nagato shinano hiryuu and then you can see how well it does.
zenith tundra
i said try vs not use that
coral wren
I like Richelieu because she takes a good chunk of hp from the enemy vanguard at the start of battle and applies burn to everyone
zenith tundra
if u want anti meta there is always perseus ws + another good bb (hms preferably)
coral wren
Plus her second salvo times perfectly with radar scan
coral wren
if u want anti meta there is always perseus ws + another good bb (hms preferably...
ws?
zenith tundra
i used perseus ws fdg for almost a full season and it was almost as good as non wyvern nagato shinano hiryuu
warspite
coral wren
Ah
Sometimes I run Percy Richie owaerida
Vanguard gets deleted right at the start 
But doesn’t work against super tanky vanguards
zenith tundra
if u don't use bb perseus is kind of pointless. she is used to discover cv so ws can kill them fast
coral wren
Because after the beginning, if the enemy survives, there’s nothing else you can really do for a while
coral wren
if u don't use bb perseus is kind of pointless. she is used to discover cv so ws...
I have skypirate on Percy so she does good damage
But I can just slap Howe in there
Or even nugget/warkai
elder crane
I have skypirate on Percy so she does good damage
Once you face good teams she does like nothing basically, so ye
coral wren
I just restart until I get lucky and they scoop up all of my torps like ice cream
elder crane
On that team, I'd rec you twin 100 ykkz for the AA instead of Sandy, given her shit AA it actually helps a good amount vs enemy CV
Sandy actually has good gunpower and more than enough AA so use a DpS gun on her
no point in using 100 mm or even 114 mm over 130/128 if you have copies of those
also mic on her is ???
coral wren
Just cus
elder crane
mic your CV instead
coral wren
K
elder crane
on that note, rudder on CV is pretty pointless these days
you'll want droptank btw on them at least, assuming you can't afford avgas yet
though if you rely on lucky E it can be fine to just run other shit on Enty
coral wren
I put it on owarida because sometimes she dies right before she uses an airstrike so I thought that might save her a tiny bit of time to clutch that lucky e
elder crane
aviation crash damage completely bypasses evasion
so you're probably better off with mic even for survivability
coral wren
Talking about salvos too
Sometimes, especially against people with Odin or warkai, enty dies pretty quick
elder crane
If you're having issues with BB team I don't really see how you win vs meta comps
coral wren
I don’t know how I win either
elder crane
anyways if you're that concerned I'd probably take a toolbox even
coral wren
Btw for some reason the rank 10 guy appeared in my pvp opponents today and I ended up beating him
I guess it’s just luck
coral wren
Btw for some reason the rank 10 guy appeared in my pvp opponents today and I end...
In the morning
elder crane
rank 10 right now = not meta player
coral wren
Then it went back to my usual opponents
elder crane
cause meta players are sandbagging around 200-1k rn
coral wren
rank 10 right now = not meta player
He had Odin, owaerida, biscuit, drake, sandy, juneau
elder crane
that's not remotely meta
coral wren
It took me a few tries
coral wren
that's not remotely meta
It was strong tho
elder crane
it's not
elder crane
if you made tiers of teams
that would be like tier 5 at best
actually that's waay too generous
any half decent CV team would crush it
elder crane
if you found it harder than the other shit you face, then either
- they are actually 120 stuff
- they actually run equipment
an avg level 110 team is beyond shit tier
literally 3 level diff and you already lose the -20% dmg taken relative advantage offense gets
that's how much levels matter
coral wren
I get this every single time I tell people that my fleet is good, it’s always “they probably had shit gear” or “blank fleet would crush that”
Always the same
elder crane
cause it's true
coral wren
There’s no chance that every single 120 fleet that I come across just happens to have shit gear
elder crane
except that's true
also that one didn't
cause the team comp was shit, if you had more issues with it than others, then that's the diff good equipment makes
zenith tundra
most fleets u'll fight are usually just meme defenses with no real value in stalling/walling people with good comps. trying against those is usually not a sign of how well ur fleet does. unless u face only bad comps all season u'll definitely feel the difference once you fight vs a full meta fleet because u'll reset more then you can win with random comps
elder crane
anyone who's tried to test comps rigorously runs into this
99% of defense teams are shit
90% of meta defense teams have such shit equipment that they fall flat
run into that 1% of ppl who actually have a meta defense geared well and it's super noticeable
coral wren
I like to try to fight the strongest fleets I can find
Except for KMS fleets cus they all bad
zenith tundra
what server are u playing on?
coral wren
Amagi
zenith tundra
ok...
elder crane
e.g. back when I was testing out HMS torpmemes (before it was meta)
100% winrate until like last three days
then I run into a few ppl who set things up properly, and get the like 60-80% WR I was expecting out of torpmemes (vs those teams specifically)
it was to the point where my torps would completely whiff and yet was still comfortable win
covert swallow
There's like. 3 people on amagi that I sometimes have to reset against
elder crane
rn I don't even bother to equip my offense fleet half the time lol
after stripping off half their equipment for PvE stuff
elder crane
me too, when I was running Nano
rn testing AKaga tho so ofc permanently stukas
candid sluice
Amagi server doesn’t have a lot of meta defense fleets to be fair
Probably why they’re finding success with that fleet
covert swallow
Yep. We have no torp meme def fleets at all. Pretty nice
That'll change after noshiro event I assume though
elder crane
I take full credit for that cancer
elder crane
ye torpmemes always are a thing
just
not HMS torpmemes
technically can be pretty good with just two
lethal tapir
for pvp shinano do you use paralel or convergin torps? assuming no wyvern since i imagine wyvern is the best choice anyways
also do you go all in with double bombers, or are fighters still important?
candid sluice
If no wyvern then use cuda
Ryuusei memes are so incredibly inconsistent it’s not even worth using them imo
And first slot shinano should be a fighter
Or wyvern
lethal tapir
i guess first slot is wyvern when you have 2 right?
or when i get my first wyvern i should do wyvern + cuda
candid sluice
If u only have one wyvern throw it in 3rd slot and keep a fighter in first
U swap to double wyvern when u have it
hot creek
I use both Ryuusei and Wyvern.
When you use both, there is no escape for the enemy VG. If they stand in one place, they get hit by aimed torps. If they move around too much, they get hit by parallel torps. You always get some kind of decent baseline damage with this setup, in my experience.
leaden sky
I'd say the converging torps are more for backline after clearing vg, easy clear opponents main with ryuusei or similar tb
Slot in one converging tb and the rest with wyvern is also a viable option
candid sluice
So ur using ryuusei slot 1 and wyvern slot 3 Phoenix?
next burrow
What’s the best dd gun to equip on vgs now?
elder crane
Any DD gun that is too shit just takes 100 mm for AA reasons
Also Nano already has barrage aimed TBs and bombs already nuke stationary target
Aimed TB unnecessary
And also stuka>ryuusei smh
candid sluice
Spread pattern ⚠️
light crystal
Im running TB Junkers on first slot to try it out atm, was running Cuda all this time 
sullen sierra
what aux's do you all usually run on Nagato in a Nagato/Shinano/Hiryuu setup?
elder crane
Badge/WNT for me
Unsure about badge tbh
imo esp for offense, you want a survivability aux in that slot. Badge can go on Azuma as well, so I guess you could try AA radar, which helps vs CV? But rudder helps more vs torps/shelling, which she tends to eat a lot of since not stealthed.
Nelson flag is another option, esp for torpmemes vanguard
With Manjuu Juneau lead though, I don't think it actually helps, maybe it even actually hurts
sullen sierra
okay, yeah, was running badge/rudder on her atm, fairly new to pvp so wanted to make sure that was the general direction to go at least, mostly eva/acc stuff i imagine is good vs fp or other things
covert swallow
just be monkey brain and run double shells like me
sullen sierra
was also curious on a Twin 381mm, 406mm, or 457mm opinion
midnight heron
does upgrading bb gun (past +10) increase burn dmg 
elder crane
does upgrading bb gun (past +10) increase burn dmg <:WarZoom:771757087092244511>
Yes, burn scales with weapon coefficient
covert swallow
amagi flagship new meta
elder crane
Look at this dude
Stolen strategy from Insanity smh
midnight heron
ic thx
ripe latch
Look at this dude
strategy vs hiryu 
ripe latch
sullen sierra
do you all prefer the Twin 381mm or 406mm on Nagato? Assume Twin 457 would also be an option but not sure if that's very good with Shinano/Hiryuu
clear briar
Always the Twin 406
next burrow
AP supremacy all the way <:YorkBruh:588629709328482325>
Alright thanks
sour oasis
strategy vs hiryu <:FormidableWink:628995011513679892>
Strategy vs Hiryu is almost always going to include one of your own.
ripe latch
elder crane
do you all prefer the Twin 381mm or 406mm on Nagato? Assume Twin 457 would also ...
ye no wasn't even preferred before stealth (cause wnt mostly) and now stealth means you'll shoot vanguard mostly
in nakaga maybe?
meager aspen
Is it good enough for pvp? Is it good to upgrade rainbow torps to +13? Thanks in advance 🙏🏼
And I forgot to mention she's already lv 120 oathed
candid sluice
If you’re going to go full torpedoes I would at least use quad magnetic torpedoes
Also nah +13 oxytorp isn’t a priority
candid sluice
100/150 aviation fuel and either homing beacon or microphone
elder crane
Is it good enough for pvp? Is it good to upgrade rainbow torps to +13? Thanks in...
If ya gonna run laffey, you'll have to run her defensively, with +HP aux
Her torps aren't really good enough to warrant double oxytorp, instead it'll just make her really squishy
Or like, torps in general need to be full stacked torpteam with magnetic effect to be usable in PvP
*some exceptions for HMS torps from gear lab
inner quiver
She doesn’t seem to be in the tier list?
pinned comment from 2019 should be outdated
sharp obsidian
@inner quiver thank you! No wonder!
distant token
do you all prefer the Twin 381mm or 406mm on Nagato? Assume Twin 457 would also ...
twin 406 unless u dont have it
sullen sierra
thanks to all who answered, yeah, i have a spare, ill use that
coral wren
Is it good enough for pvp? Is it good to upgrade rainbow torps to +13? Thanks in...
Laffey isn’t great, especially in pvp
distant token
^
only good dds are ykkz and suzu
maybe aya if u are running torp memes
oh and naganami
coral wren
In pvp if ur running dd you gotta run hp aux
Or they will die easily
I use double oxytorp on ibuki
candid sluice
coral wren
candid sluice
Blacktorp teatorps or nothing
light crystal
I wanna try Potter
candid sluice
Amagichan new meta
radiant brook
The datamine always got translated hours before EN maintenance starts
candid sluice
ripe latch
meager aspen
If ya gonna run laffey, you'll have to run her defensively, with +HP aux
Her tor...
Ah I see, that's why she always sunk
meager aspen
Laffey isn’t great, especially in pvp
Ok noted, I'm doing this because I have Yukikaze at the moment
ripe latch
azur meta died on ranked 
sour oasis
Is it good enough for pvp? Is it good to upgrade rainbow torps to +13? Thanks in...
Laffey is good enough as a stop-gap. As you play more PvP, or want to achieve the highest ranks, you will be replacing her with CL like Juneau or Helena.
+13 oxytorp isn't a priority, even if you had a torpedo-centric vanguard; better gold aux to +13 include Pearl or Powered/Improved Rudder. Laffey is also not the best to make the most out of them. She's a balanced ship and PvP stresses on maximizing specialist ships.
Yukikaze is a nice ship to build up. She's great in PvE and PvP. She could make use of oxytorp better than Laffey.
sour oasis
Ah I see, that's why she always sunk
Consider unlocking the Pearl aux. It's more HP than a toolbox even though it lacks the auto-repair.
meager aspen
Consider unlocking the Pearl aux. It's more HP than a toolbox even though it lac...
Thanks for the advice.
radiant brook
Who should I swap ykkz with from helena and sandy?
candid sluice
Your backline?
sour oasis
Given their navy is built on a gamble, I'd vote Sandy out first.
radiant brook
Shin/war/hiryuu
ripe latch
light crystal
Screw Sandy
no u
midnight heron
tfw u win torpmeme cuz they proc ur fc 5s from match start and u instawipe their vg
radiant brook
elder crane
Ye as torpmemes you pray that you don't nuke Hiryuu early
candid sluice
elder crane
Not before their vanguard is dead
radiant brook
So best hiryuu PvP loadout is tiger/helldiver/wyvern?
elder crane
Cause then Hiryuu FC (under stealth too!) Risks making your VG lose trade
And then Nano/Hiryuu helpless vs vanguard in their face
Helldive Wyvern yes
Plane selection, Hornet in most cases probably
radiant brook
What if there is only one wyvern? Wyvern on shinano instead?
elder crane
Maybe VF-17 if not on Nano already
candid sluice
Yes
covert swallow
I still don't have this thing unlocked 
radiant brook
So hiryuu should never take ryuusei?
elder crane
Naw, is not so useful anymore now that you don't really rely on the dmg output from Hiryuu FC
covert swallow
idk who I'd even use pearls tear on if I got it, which is the main reason I haven't bothered.
elder crane
Naw, is not so useful anymore now that you don't really rely on the dmg output f...
Nano already should be mostly killing then so you should just run parallels
elder crane
idk who I'd even use pearls tear on if I got it, which is the main reason I have...
Any vanguard pretty much?
covert swallow
maybe sandy instead of toolbox?
elder crane
Easily yep
Was about to say, unless torpmemes can always find spots for Pearl and Manjuu
covert swallow
this is my vanguard atm
elder crane
+eva on DDs
You might want to check out an eHP calculator vs the hit stats you expect in PvP (100+, 150 ish is standard these days really)
Or like PvE too even, though I think vs super low hit shit rudder on suzu actually works
radiant brook
You need some Jesus Juneau in your life
covert swallow
I don't want to use juneau because she's ugly not waifu tier for me
elder crane
oh hey nvm suzu actually crosses the threshold eHP-wise where rudder is not actually much worse at all
although I'd still rec +HP aux with secondary effects on her
covert swallow
even for pve? ik we're not supposed to talk about pve in here much but, I use all 3 of those ships in pve too and would like to avoid switching gear if I can. also I mostly thought speedy EVA suzu was funny, not too surprised if I should swap the aux.
candid sluice
Generally dds want more hp over eva since they alr have high eva
covert swallow
ah, I'm too monke brain to understand that, I'm used to other games where the more EVA you stack, the better.
elder crane
in PvE toolkit is extra preferred esp over second +eva since the regen adds up over time
idk most games have eva stat scale like shit
eva rate is a coinflip if there's an anti-stacking mechn or not
covert swallow
so should I swap beaver badge or rudder on suzu for toolbox?
candid sluice
Interesting thing abt suzu is toolbox rudder actually gives her more ehp somehow
elder crane
enemy hit: 75
elder crane
we a PvE channel now?
but ye often in PvE higher HP DDs take rudder
and ykkz cause high luck
btw if you want to take into account PvP
don't forget +5% evarate buff and +15% evasion from Nano
candid sluice
Doesn’t ykk want toolboxes tho because she has high luck
Wait does stacking eva have diminishing returns?
elder crane
yes
more luck = eva scales better
less luck = eva scales worse
cause luck = evarate mod
covert swallow
suzu has pretty good luck right
candid sluice
So rudder toolbox ykk?
elder crane
also note that your calc slaps +4.3% evarate on Suzu
which unless you manual is lol glhf
elder crane
she zoom out smoke in 0.01 s
candid sluice
That’s why I at smokescreen skills
elder crane
also idk if they calc the smoke effect correctly
since in smoke she eva caps pretty sure
so you can't just effective effect = raw effect/uptime
covert swallow
also, is double shell nagato fine for pvp?
elder crane
not really
though is generally second best PvE loadout
candid sluice
Don’t use double shells
elder crane
usually the best is white shell+HPFCR
elder crane
PvP you go beaver WNT
candid sluice
That too
elder crane
or something else defensive over beaver if beaver is on a vanguard
candid sluice
Nugget just wants to spam barrages so hpfcr good
covert swallow
pearl tears nagato?
covert swallow
elder crane
ye y'know what
imma do that
esp since I adjusted team she's always the first to go
covert swallow
she dies for me first a lot
elder crane
low AA and no stealth
covert swallow
especially since there's not really proper torp memes on amagi, vanguards don't blow up instantly
north vine
elder crane
Pearl not on Juneau helps for stability though
cause sometime Juneau does a Neo impression and lives for much longer than she should
light crystal
U relying entirely on her heal is questionable imo. Besides, as long as it's CV v CV, the longer she's alive, the better, as the CV's will take less damage on the back, cuz Juneau is in front providing AA
There is outliers tho, I suppose, outside CV meta where Juneau living too long can be an issue.
I only have one Wyvern, and on Shinano. In this instance, getting Shinano sniped off before her first airstrike was an issue, as I had to rely on Hiryuu DPS
Also, was not using WNT at the time. Well either way, once I get two Wyverns, one on each, this particular scenario will stop being an issue and I'll go back to curbstomping all BB comps
elder crane
I only have one Wyvern, and on Shinano. In this instance, getting Shinano sniped...
can still have issues if bad vanguard fight RNG
You got pretty lucky/their vanguard is pretty bad if managed to strip down to only Azuma at that point
without Nano present, is very much a risk you lose vanguard fight, and then Hiryuu can't do much about that
light crystal
@elder crane Pretty squish VG too
inland halo
is laffey worth using in pvp?
and if she is, is it worth giving her an ap gun?
candid sluice
Not really
light crystal
Like I said tho, loosing Shinano before she got out her first airstrike was not good. And relying on a non-Wyvern Hiryuu to DPS carry was oof too. Wasn't using WNT either, like I said.
sour oasis
is laffey worth using in pvp?
and if she is, is it worth giving her an ap gun?
As a stop-gap, sure. Until you get CLs with higher ceilings, Laffey is an underwhelming all-rounder.
But no, there's maybe like one DD AP gun that's good. You're better off setting ships on fire with He bursts.
crude mortar
its so easy to beat fdg warspite double 457
just run double eva gear baiting
how can you had any problem vs that fleet on offense
light crystal
just run double eva gear baiting
crude mortar
did you just start doing pvp after stealth patch
warspite fdg always shit vs double evasion gear before the stealth patch
and still shit after the stealth patch
especially vs double evasion gear on the top of wnt
radiant brook
So what's the best pvp gear for nanoda?
candid sluice
Who tf pinged me
trail temple
Best gear for ykkz? The one where she isn't in the fleet. 
candid sluice
meager aspen
As a stop-gap, sure. Until you get CLs with higher ceilings, Laffey is an underw...
I have Helena, is she can replace her as VG in pvp?
Or Baltimore/Noshiro/Mogami(Retrofit)
candid sluice
Helena and noshiro works well
sullen sierra
saw that niffty eHP calculator in here earlier, does anyone have a link to that?
candid sluice
Interesting thing abt suzu is toolbox rudder actually gives her more ehp somehow
U talking abt this one?
sullen sierra
yes
candid sluice
It’s a bot command that I used in another discord server
sullen sierra
ah, damn..
sullen sierra
oh, okay, ty
elder crane
just run double eva gear baiting
Ah yes I do like gimping team vs CV team who pretty much just ignore main fleet eva anyways
Tbf rudder Hiryuu isn't so bad since how much dmg is she doing anyways smh
But then Hiryuu not rudder tanking warkai is already good enough so :WarShrug:
distant token
just run double eva gear baiting
vh armor hiryuu
crude mortar
back then cv running full evasion or get rekt
and people nowadayt is like
nahnah gotta use those dmg aux
elder crane
Honestly maybe not so bad either, VH Hiryuu
crude mortar
refuse to use evasion
elder crane
Torp weakness maybe not a downside
elder crane
refuse to use evasion
Evasion useless vs enemy CV team
crude mortar
yes
elder crane
Less dmg = you trade worse
distant token
adopt speed tech
crude mortar
but againts certain bb comp its needed
crude mortar
yeah
distant token
well for defense fleet against warspite VH armor
elder crane
Let them chew on Hiryuu while Nano||ra-punches|| smashes their face in
Anwyays I prefer not to make team worse vs the actual threats tyvm
candid sluice
Rudders on carriers on defense
candid sluice
Holy shit lol
covert swallow
leaked footage of Enterprise META
ripe latch
bug with unlim equip? 
candid sluice
Where’s your +13 wyvern
sour oasis
+13 heels. That's not always a priority... What other aux did Blue +13 
candid sluice
+11 avgas?
radiant brook
+13 rudder and sexy is not a bad move for pve though
radiant brook
@crude mortar w13: hello here, a team with no sextuple
ripe latch
trail temple
Can do w13 fine without sexbofors
elder crane
Can do w13 fine without sexbofors
Cannot do ch13 fine with only staag
Well
*Some exceptions apply
candid sluice
light crystal
Should probably +13 those Heels 🤔
I've been using Azuma in PvP alot nowadays, I honestly should +13 the Tashgun and the Heels. Hell, even that STAAG.
Also use that same kit for PvE in OS, so getting all +13 is gonna be like what 15% extra dmg bonus there as well lol
I wanna +13 Nagato's FDG gun, as well as Azuma's whole kit I think 🤔
leaden sky
dew it
meager aspen
candid sluice
next burrow
So uh disclaimer that I’m not really the most informed when it comes to pvp
But do we ever run helena and juneau together
candid sluice
Maybe if you’re using uss memes
next burrow
I just read the guide and it says that helena uses the manjuu item, but afaik juneau does too
next burrow
Maybe if you’re using uss memes
Actually I am haha
candid sluice
With essex?
radiant brook
Sandy is decently tanky
next burrow
Actually Im also thinking between pow and enty atm
candid sluice
They’re all light armor so they get blasted by azuma
radiant brook
If they are monkey brain and stand there and get hit
next burrow
Oh ye that’d be rough
candid sluice
I’d run Seattle over sandy
candid sluice
Could work but she’s a heavy cruiser
There’s a guy here who uses uss carrier memes who would know more than I do
@crude mortar
candid sluice
Hidden pvp mechanics so cas get the short end of the stick
It’s in the pins somewhere in this channel
If u scroll a bit u can find em
next burrow
Oh, thanks
elder crane
Hey what
candid sluice
elder crane
Helena works for Nanoryuu too
And warkai percy
Good crutches for weaker teams on offense/on def in general
candid sluice
Who gets manjuu in that case
elder crane
Helena
Vs torpmemes you probably want Jun lead
But vs standard it's fine to Helena Manjuu lead too, at least when we tried testing that it didn't seem to really change much
Also just the usual setup was pretty similar too, manjuu Jun lead with mid Helena, at least on defense
candid sluice
Okay there’s your answer
elder crane
Or I guess tl;dr doesn't really matter cause team is quite RNG anyways, just don't lead nonManjuu Helena 
candid sluice
Yeah I just don’t like helena because she’s highly inconsistent but of bias on my end
elder crane
is not good on offense for sure ye
if you can field a good enough team
on def it actually works really well
wr-wise it's not as cancer as torpmemes defense, but you also can't just immediately reset like you can vs torps
since you need to wait the 25 s to see if Helena-boosted strike wave wipes your vanguard or not
leaden sky
Hybrid fleet
crude mortar
its called killing eldridge
leaden sky
Shit im using eldridge
candid sluice
USS jintsuu naganami noshiro
glad mulch
chad hiryuu vs everybody
sour oasis
If she hasn't activated her counterattack yet, Hiryu's in a good spot. ||Until ... Or surprise Manjuu||
radiant brook
Back and shoulders fetish
candid sluice
Cultured
light crystal
This fkface again. Well, Imma wimp it out and move my Hiryuu up then. I consider that a sign of weakness of me having to do that to get an EZ win against wut I see as an otherwise weak and inferior fleet, but if I don't do that it unnecessarily makes it harder than it needs to be, so meh
candid sluice
Why does switching your fleet position = weakness
elder crane
Nakaga on the other hand just wrecks that 
your main fleet dies but then vanguard kills them
light crystal
Why does switching your fleet position = weakness <:YorkBruh:588629709328482325>
Cuz I dont ever have to do that, so me needing to do that to make the fight easier = sign of me admitting his fleet can actually pose a threat.
Well granted, I did do that alot back in the day when I used Nagato/Hiryuu/WK, but those days are behind us.
elder crane
if it's just making WR go from (normal vs meta numbers)->(guaranteed win), hmmm
or actually, is WR even lower than vs, say, CV helena comp if you don't swap
light crystal
Also, Seattle stronk eve when not pewing pewing planes.
sour oasis
Well granted, I did do that alot back in the day when I used Nagato/Hiryuu/WK, b...
Meta means ever-changing too.
light crystal
Muh torpmemes 
light crystal
Yes, Abruzzi has a further torp dmg mitigation
Like, it feels u can run Venetto, Aquila, Juneau, Abruzzi.
light crystal
U could either add Enty/Hiryuu as a third on Backline, and Noshiro/Seattle on VG
Actually
Aquila, Venetto, WK
That could also be a thing
light crystal
Yeah, u could run WK middle, Venetto/Aquila on sides, as Venetto's barrage is aimed, it seems? https://streamable.com/oyc4l6
So yeah, first impressions, 3 new SSR pasta botes have PvP potential