also idk if I want to +13 two champguns 
#pvp
candid sluice
Does the few seconds between and 457 and champ that notable?
Yea I can understand that
elder crane
well the main thing to note will be if mle fires fast enough to get shots in before stuff does things
candid sluice
But a +13 with +10 is already hitting hard
flint python
well the main thing to note will be if mle fires fast enough to get shots in bef...
Since you have Howe reload buff then yes
elder crane
don't forget 2xmle means second one fires later
ye that's what I'm thinking, though I'll have to see in practice
candid sluice
What’s the rld difference between howe and wardog
elder crane
good news is since CV meta no one uses rudder on main anymore, and fewer amagi
which really is why the comp works at all
flint python
Even if they have Evasion gear it still works since you equip your BB with hit
elder crane
Naw
candid sluice
Not always
elder crane
the thing is ppl stopped teching vs it, and rudder eva matters a lot
thin cosmos
without any evasion gear still more than 20%
elder crane
and also amagi
flint python
It even works against amagi team
candid sluice
Not with rudders
elder crane
even double +hit warkai was around 75% ish hitrate vs rudder+amagi buff iirc
flint python
Also howe have hit buff
candid sluice
Now without rudder and amagi
candid sluice
Yep 
elder crane
especially post WNT
flint python
I tried it works with +13 gears tho
elder crane
ye cause no one runs rudder anymore
candid sluice
Dude this is pre cv
elder crane
and fewer amagi around
candid sluice
No one runs rudders after stealth
thin cosmos
about 457, the reload gap is crazy important so can't be covered
elder crane
I'm pretty sure one HPFCR mle is fiiine
flint python
I tried it against amagi team with rudders warkai howe is still enough to snipe
thin cosmos
I don't think you can shoot 3shot before shinano launch
candid sluice
No way
elder crane
iirc even without Howe, HPFCR mle hits first salvo at 19 s in
thin cosmos
but think about damage you need
elder crane
Howe should shave off like half a second maybe
flint python
A second or a bit more if oath
elder crane
erm
thin cosmos
it takes time to travel for shell
elder crane
oath doesn't affect her buff
candid sluice
elder crane
and when we say stuff
usually we mean 120/200
ye I mean hit shell at 19 s
not fire
flint python
Oath increase stats and her buff buffs stats
elder crane
our numbers are already for 120/200 ship
elder crane
ye it's just over 20 s load time
with HPFCR
means 17 s + a bit
and mle has ~20% higher velocity
so lands at basically 19 s ish
thin cosmos
count initial cooldown
elder crane
when does MGM+2 shells land
Nano is usually more like 22 s
though I suppose can be 21 s depending on loadout
candid sluice
First airstrike takes longer to load?
Second volley hits before launch from my experience
elder crane
the usual meta ones at this point though is 22 s ish
candid sluice
Third isn’t fast enough
elder crane
does firing all three shots really take 3 s+ ?
Never really counted tbh
thin cosmos
pretty sure you can't hit third vs beacon
elder crane
bacon should eventually not even be meta smh 
thin cosmos
the initial time count seems odd for me
should be 20s
17s+2s+1s
nano has about 22s stats cooldown
elder crane
22.54 for me
but that's with tech
so I guess with Nagato buff and without tech is a hair faster than that
since +21 tech on 133 base reload is a bit lower than +20% reload
thin cosmos
yeah nagato buff also
elder crane
ye I suppose it's 21-22 s depending on loadout
thin cosmos
so what about BB cool?
elder crane
lower end of that means mle for sure can't land third shell
candid sluice
Tech isn’t factored in tho
thin cosmos
I guess you need at least 5total shell hit to kill nano
candid sluice
And u use mic so slower launch
Nano is thicc against shelling btw
That blue skill is annoying
thin cosmos
also yuki
candid sluice
With something like Percy warkai howe/monarch still not gonna sink her
candid sluice
Yeah maybe with DoTs it’s possible
But she’ll launch before the fires do major dmg
elder crane
Tech is factored in for displayed reload, no?
flint python
Impossible?
candid sluice
Don’t think so
thin cosmos
FDG fire he barrage at start so she can
candid sluice
Not 10”% sure tho
elder crane
What's your CV reload tech rn
candid sluice
Uhh one sec
elder crane
And who do you have 120/200
So we can compare
I guess Ryuusei reload time would be fine?
thin cosmos
me but fucking wyvern
thin cosmos
21.20
flint python
crude mortar
do you have rainbow gun to sink shinano
thin cosmos
with vf +cuda
candid sluice
What is that showing
elder crane
Or if you want to run numbers sure
candid sluice
Isn’t that the rld of the plane
elder crane
Ye this is post reload mod on Nano
crude mortar
isn't everything show always counting tech stat
flint python
It's not even equiped lul
elder crane
I'm selecting equipment for the slot
Lol
Ye exactly Kanzaki
But York isn't convinced, so let's check
I'm at +21 reload tech and those are my numbers
You can do calcs too if you want, 133 base reload on Nano
Too lazy rn
light crystal
bacon should eventually not even be meta smh <:PrinzDealWithIt:61100413808345096...
U and ur stupid mike. It will never take off. Give it up.
candid sluice
My nano non oath +4 rld
thin cosmos
oh pve gear upgrade first
elder crane
sadly Stuka is new Ryuusei now 
Better pattern voodoo
Time to scrap all +13 Ryuusei to +13 stukas instead
(jk don't do that, even if true it's not worth)
candid sluice
trail temple
crude mortar
is stuka homing
frail orbit
||From m...., my shifu, lv 136 of manhattan project CN server||
elder crane
No stukas drop in triangle pattern
crude mortar
pvE
elder crane
So edge torps closer to target
candid sluice
Stuka has less alpha doesn’t it
elder crane
Supposedly better hitrate
CN dalao testing apparently shows 3-8% ish across the board vs moving bosses depending on boss speed/pattern
In my experience it does hit a bit more vs Miryuu at least, I think?
crude mortar
@frail orbit CAREFUL MOD IS MIGHT BE AROUND HERE
light crystal
https://mobile.twitter.com/HugoHaoYue/status/1366941489649963008
No mikes, so that's already a plus 
elder crane
Miryuu has 15 eva
light crystal
Actually, who r u using Shokek with?
elder crane
+hit literally does nothing
candid sluice
elder crane
Devs probably typod and was supposed to be 150 lol
Which means
It would have been
Mics meta
candid sluice
What’s the standard eva of campaign bosses
elder crane
There's a large jump for 13 and 11 HM
candid sluice
150 seems pretty high
elder crane
SH/Abyss ranges from 60-110 iirc
frail orbit
There's no B word either @crude mortar
crude mortar
elder crane
Ch 12 tho is only 45 eva iirc
candid sluice
Yeah 150 is high
elder crane
Ehh it's supposed to be super hard boss
thin cosmos
just ship type problem
elder crane
We've seen EX bosses w more eva than 150 pretty sure
candid sluice
Miryuu just feels like a huge dmg sponge
thin cosmos
dd bosses has very high evasion even in lower area
candid sluice
Except for last laser spin phase
elder crane
Ye on dmg output Miryuu does like nothing for 1 min lol
And then explodes in last 20 s
candid sluice
The random bs projectiles the throws out don’t hurt that much
And the ones that do dmg can be dodged
Just that laser phase is insane
elder crane
Talking about lasers
thin cosmos
it's not vs miryuu infact but vs helena
elder crane
Devs never did fix that bug
thin cosmos
come on!speak sg!
elder crane
Where lasers hit submerged subs for 0 dmg
elder crane
Wanna bet
crude mortar
ya all talking about pve and abusing bug
elder crane
Eventually there will be a sub
crude mortar
are they mods gonna gulagging you all
elder crane
And then after ppl make a fuss about it
Devs will finally fix the bug
Probably stop taihou barrage from hitting subs too
And then massively break something else
elder crane
Basically the free space on the AL patch bingo card
crude mortar
it tooks like 2 year til they do something about pvp
isn't it
will it took 2 more year to fix bug
elder crane
What did they do?
crude mortar
by adding wtn and shit
thin cosmos
first they upgraded plane hp
crude mortar
*wnt
flint python
elder crane
Oh, right, actually yes
thin cosmos
it was 25%of now...
thin cosmos
yep
elder crane
Like, suuuuper early
thin cosmos
but it was start of my server
elder crane
WaSDNC got rebalanced in general
Mostly Wa and NC got some skills swapped around iirc
thin cosmos
before that enty plane was also invincible)))
thin cosmos
not enty but plane
crude mortar
the plane too
thin cosmos
nope
crude mortar
@elder crane
candid sluice
Did that actually happen
crude mortar
elder crane
Ye rn Enty planes gain lucky E immunity from AA boat in PvE but not normal AA dmg in PvP
🍝
candid sluice
Holy shit
flint python
It's only invincible in pvp
candid sluice
Devs patched a bug? 
elder crane
So the stuuupid DoT bug
Ugggh
Nothing in patch notes
Every few months I'd check
And it would change
candid sluice
But it’s actually useful in pvp
elder crane
I think that one fixed for good now
candid sluice
Yea those hotpatches get sent out and doesn’t say what it actually fixed
elder crane
The thing is
candid sluice
Those 34MB downloads that kick me from the game
elder crane
On release it work fine, for at least half a yr
Then when I check a year later it isn't
Then a few month later they fix it
And then next month it's back???
thin cosmos
that's the world of coding for most normal programming
elder crane
Sometimes I don't even
Tbf true
But I think the problem is probably some master version never got it fixed
thin cosmos
it's very hard
elder crane
Cause we know devs pull rando code from CN/JP to try to fix EN when it breaks
Which is what causes the issues on non-tl text (notably usually JP but occasionally CN text) and loading screen controversies
proper sorrel
no wonder en has lots of bugs
reported bugs on jp gets fixed within 24 hours
if not on break ofc
trail temple
Yes
light crystal
Just like my hopes and dreams of getting a Wyvern.
radiant brook
Guaranteed once every 3 months dosen't sound bad tbh
Unless you ultra lucksack 457/twipple
candid sluice
frail orbit
Just hit pity smh
For a wyvern
At least fuckin guaranteed over a single ryusei from research jokes on u
light crystal
Just hit pity smh
tfw even pity cucks on u till the third week of the Reset
frail orbit
radiant brook
IJN cancer suddenly feels more tolerable once I switched comps 
radiant brook
Hakuryuu dosen't exist, it can't hurt you
light crystal
Can we get a Noctis rerun soon so more ppl get in on the trend?
Ultimate IJN bias, in the house once again.
radiant brook
What trend?
Oh black torp
thin cosmos
just that 3 black oxy gate keeping for me..
I was too lazy at that time
who could expect parallel torp
light crystal
I didn't, I farmed 4 as drops (besides freebie from shop) as PvE cheap substitutes for Rainbow dildos
radiant brook
thin cosmos
holly dildo coin
light crystal
So even running this defense, I still get to 2 to play around with PvE
I would like a rerun myself so I can farm more for PvE, they're good
trail temple
I wasn't lazy with that event, I was just got damn unlucky. Everyone was like, who cares it's not great. Meanwhile me
I got 8/15 from 55kish points
light crystal
Yeah, u needed some commitment to stay on D1 over D3 instead for that event lol
Whereas others saw useless rainbow dildo sidegrades, I saw potential
trail temple
My commitment was not rewarded
Hopefully next event I can farm the remaining 7 and get the 15 from the shop to make 3
Then I'll need a spare Shinano so I don't have to swap between cudas and ryuuseis and I'll have my completely RNG defence fleet
thin cosmos
fucking port shop no UR print again! only 1 print with 128 total items
thin cosmos
in march was ofcourse at last shop..
midnight heron
ppl already have 360 gold parts for +13 rainbow gear 
candid sluice
+13 rainbow seems like a waste
silent ocean
increases base damage in all fronts so idk seems worth since it wont be powercrept for a long while
light crystal
I would +13 at least one Wyvern
clear briar
FFS
gritty cove
EU pov, trying to do all the matches before going to bed
trail temple
With +13 wyvern, you'll get extra damage for sure, but you could +13 your planes with the prints you'll get for wyvern. So, is it still worth doing over something else?
candid sluice
Yea why not +13 some other planes first helldiver mainly
And it doesn’t increase crash dmg or anything just torp dmg
And we all know how accurate parallel tbs are anyway
light crystal
Well, someone like Shinano could make use of it
candid sluice
I’m not saying don’t +13 it just that there are higher priorities than wyvern upgrade
light crystal
For planes, not that much imo
Even if it takes more plates, I'd want to + a TB over a DB. That said, since plates are scarce materials, I prefer to + stuff that won't be superseded right away, which is why I have enhanced XSB3C's over Barracudas. If I had the luxury of having had a Wyvern earlier, I would've enhanced that over a XSB3C, however.
candid sluice
frail orbit
Fuck off
Ryusei spending
Is literally my biggest mistake
🙃 🪓
Smh me spending for biggur dmg on miyu raid
candid sluice
I use ryuusei in pvp as well so I don’t regret
sour oasis
+13 messers
light crystal
Heck, +13 Fighter > +1 on Wyvern
candid sluice
trail temple
Petition to have Blue spread the gospel message far and wide into other AL communities
cinder wyvern
who the flagship?
radiant brook
Akashi
cinder wyvern
oh yea
radiant brook
cinder wyvern
forgot she's a backliner 
radiant brook
Burnt up all my attacks, unable to move until reset
candid sluice
radiant brook
Hey I got the t100 merit reward so that's nice
radiant brook
Cracked t10 but too early
mint hornet
frigid grove
Is this ok for Nagato?
delicate owl
an he gun such as the twin 406 skc is better
trail temple
Another shop reset, another disappointment. No UR prints
candid sluice
Same
uncut agate
i got all 3 of this month's UR prints today
leaden sky
Shop is overrated, meow node is the way 
trail temple
Meow nodes are worse
tender bay
I’ve gotten more ur prints from cats than abyssals <:YorkBruh:588629709328482325...
Same. I got 3 UR plane prints from cats and 0 from abyssal bosses for all time
leaden sky
gold parts always drop either torps, or general.. where's my main gun parts 
remote sage
would a hiryuu meta with tigercat, suisei, wyvren gold cata and beacon be good for pvp? seems like a really powerful ship, can't figure out what to use them for though
trail temple
She's not really a powerful ship in pvp, no invul kinda ruined her chances as well as not receiving any buffs from Nagato (or any faction for that matter). Might as well stick to Shinano/Hiryuu or a USS carrier setup
remote sage
that was going to be my next question what makes shinano better than hiryuu, all 3 of hiyruu's skills launch an airstrike, seems very offensive
trail temple
Shinano is tankier and has better synergy with IJN teams. Additionally, her loadout is much better as well as just launching more planes than other CVs (9 compared to the usual 8, before factoring in her additional planes from her skill)
Miryuu just folds like paper from the ones I have seen in meme fleets
remote sage
thank you for explaining it, the more I try to figure this game out the more confusing it gets, I still don't really know anything, just sorta copy what everyone else does
frail orbit
Miyu doesn't even go for a freakin pvp
As her crash is awful
And as much as u could go spam these barrage
candid sluice
Yeah her skills are not useful in pvp at all
Red skill dmg is low and can’t sync with her airstrikes without butchering her plane loadout, the random bs she throws around also do very little dmg, blue skill planes are alright but eh
And of course no ijn synergy and no invulnerability skill that her OG variant has
tender bay
Iirc u should have attack enemy with 35+ score plus on admirals to get +11. But if he has exactly has +35 from me will i get +11? (Guy on rank 37)
uncut agate
yes
uncut agate
thin cosmos
I just missed 10 exer yesterday so would be hard season..
but still I think I can get AotN if rush cause I had good score before
light crystal
@elder crane As the OG Mike guy, thoughts?
light crystal
At some point, stacking the Wyverns is gonna be the way to go
sacred heath
light crystal
The thing is building around Nagato's missing Reload/Hit/AVI-Dmg buffs
sacred heath
one problem i see with that loadout is i'm not sure shoukek would fire first
light crystal
Hence the Mikes, which also provide AA. If u run all 3 mikes, that's like running an extra Backliner. So gotta joggle around it
Well, the way I understand it, the proc can take effect during the actual strike
sacred heath
light crystal
I don't know if the limitation is that the damage buff has to be applied before the airstrike is released from the others, or if it's just applied mid 
This is another option in case Shoukaku needs to be first 
uncut agate
centaur should also work, 4 fighters - 4 TBs, 15% avi buff 
light crystal
Problem with Centaur, she doesn't get buffs from Shinano. Also, Shoukaku provides fleetwide damage boost, and damage debuff, so overall more utility and flexibility
Basically: Shoukau = More synergy.
upper cove
only thing centaur has over shoukaku is getting debuffed less from her hull type
but shoukaku's buff is additive with that exact debuff which makes it even more ridiculous when compared to centaur's buff
elder crane
I don't know if the limitation is that the damage buff has to be applied before ...
Yes skk has to launch first
Also isn't it possible to beaver vanguard instead
light crystal
Has it been tested or datamined? Either way, if she uses VF17/Suisei, she should launch first anyway, if she has to
light crystal
Well, yes, but u see, I plan to run my torp me defense
elder crane
They have to be active at moment of launch, moment of hitting doesn't matter
Ah, I see, carry on then
light crystal
So now they got to deal with the Wyvern onslaught, on top of the torp meme, for added fun :v
I better make one Suisei then, just for Shoukaku 🤔
elder crane
The only thing I'd think about is if you can get avgas on all three
Of them personally I'd say nano is most important to mic
For others then not sure if worth losing avgas
elder crane
Ye but then it's mic or avgas
light crystal
I mean, it's weak, but cant hurt min maxing it anyway
Well, she has 6 sets of Wyverns being released, should be fine if some are downed lol
thin cosmos
I will put shokaku center
light crystal
The others will release their 8 protected by Gas haha
elder crane
Ye but then why not also protect Nano's
I'd prefer avgas on all three and mic on Nano
So then it's up to other two for which is flag+avi badge and which is off-flag+beaver
light crystal
Well, could drop mike on her, but then they might miss the VG a little more often, dunno
thin cosmos
also beaver on CV bad, so will put at vg
elder crane
Torpmemes vanguard
Actually
That's maybe an issue?
Since Nagato buffs torpmemes
Not sure how important that is
light crystal
Yeah, I considered that, but eh
thin cosmos
btw you should think about opponent also can hit before you
sour oasis
this guy's over here playing in 2022
Assuming by then a counter won't be made.
elder crane
Both the hit and the reload are useful buffs
light crystal
I think it would impact on they nuking the VG as bad, but should still reliably nuke the backline, unless someone's using Amagi on Attack kek
elder crane
Reload meaning the torps launch before airstrikes land
Ye that's the main thing I'd be careful about
thin cosmos
incase torp vs torp, not really item settings can make difference if you killed in 3second
light crystal
Assuming by then a counter won't be made.
The only counter I can think of is a UR AA gun being GODLY
elder crane
Make sure missing reload buff doesn't mean you can't launch torpa before they hit your vanguard
light crystal
But eh
elder crane
UR godly AA maybe means return to enty meta which would be yabai af
This time extra dependent on lucky E
light crystal
Why do u think that?
elder crane
Lucky E prevents AA dmg too
sour oasis
light crystal
Really??
elder crane
And USN CV team is almost legit now
light crystal
I actually saw someone mentioning that a while ago
So planes get Lucky E protection too? Hmmm
elder crane
Ye I remembered it wrong it seems
Well, not really strong AA currently so it doesn't matter too much
light crystal
Still, 70% roll of the dice for either suck or be god, so dunno about that
light crystal
IJN might still be more consistent, even with UR AA god gun
elder crane
Defense E would be annoying
sour oasis
Only in Avrora would this RNG hell be considered commonplace. PvP reward rework when
thin cosmos
I think a year later is just too far to think
light crystal
Also, I dont think the USN have very high TB Eff and high plane count on the slots. So I dont think Wyvern meta would be as great on them as it is on IJN by default
thin cosmos
there can be big pathes can change meta at anytime so don't have to think about
elder crane
IJN might still be more consistent, even with UR AA god gun
Well that's the problem
IJN meta currently minus torpmemes is actually not so bad since team is fairly consistent
Especially now that Nagato barrage doesn't play that big a role
Lucky E meta though 
Trauma
light crystal
I think u should still be using Nagato over Shoukaku. Unless u have at least 3 Wyverns, at which point u can make the switch to Shoukau for optimal DPS
Ofc, ideally u'd need 4 Wyvern, but 3 should be enough, one for each at least
elder crane
Seriously btw
Back in lucky E meta
70, maybe at best 80% winrate depending on the local meta
Though tbf
That was partially cause Eldridge too
Still 2 prints from second wyvern
thin cosmos
36hours left for my 1st wyvern...
light crystal
Still 2 prints from second wyvern <:PortDoll:585585241142591535>
🔪
candid sluice
Still 2 prints from second wyvern <:PortDoll:585585241142591535>
I will be malding hard if u get a second one before my first
light crystal
Gotta train my Cranes. But like I said, U probably dont want to run Shoukek over Nagato until u got at least 3 Wyvern 🤔
glossy meteor
hey guys how do i deal with torp clumping
glossy meteor
basically its a topr team im against but all the torps are in one bunch
like a line
sacred heath
oh lol, you found an HMS torp squad
glossy meteor
oh i just won
trail temple
That's how you win, through rng
trail temple
More anti sandbagging methods when?
candid sluice
Guildmates
timid current
what should shinano have for pvp, 2 bombers or 2 torps?
timid current
guess ill try two cuda for now since i got shafted by UR AA designs, thanks
radiant brook
What's the earliest time to get AoTN? Assuming you snag every bonus and win every match
Day 12?
radiant brook
Earlier than I thought 
slate garden
usually the 2nd reset of day 12
radiant brook
3am Saturday 
trail temple
If you're 1925 with 0/10, you'll be trying when everyone else will be trying to get it, in short, you'll fall behind
radiant brook
Ehh I already lost 5 games right when season begins
Getting fleet admiral is pretty good already
trail temple
Yeah, small wins are the aim
abstract cypress
flexington aint moving as always
inb4 crow would be rank 1 with 5 tries remaining
candid sluice
No movement on my server too
uncut agate
take the initiative, you start moving 
candid sluice
And eat +9s and +8s
elder crane
I go with cuda + wyvern for now
@timid current
If you're running Hiryuu (or maybe just period) you want fighter slot 1 for sure for spotting reasons
If solo, then maybe double cuda better than Wyvern so you don't launch intercept planes
At 10 s Hiryuu launches her TB barrage, which triggers a round of interception
5 fighters+barrage isn't enough to spot enemy by itself, but 5 fighters+4 wyvern is
If you don't have Hiryuu and have no fighters/wyvern, then this doesn't happen at all and everyone remains stealthed
sour oasis
Seeing more and more different defense teams. Dpad has a nice Helena/Juneau setup that will strike down almost any planes without extra oil or gas tanks. Several A-kaga teams running with gear lab planes. And of course the 'standard' load outs with Hiryu and/or torpedo meme.
thin cosmos
that's very good situation as I think.
elder crane
Dw once shit is +13 then it'll cut down to 3-4 clearly best ones
Which tbf is still much better than before
timid current
Dw once shit is +13 then it'll cut down to 3-4 clearly best ones
Which tbf is st...
speaking of +13, what gear should i +13 first for pvp? and i do use hiryuu+shinano
light crystal
It's tough to say. Gold plates are not a commodity right now, so you need to plan a head and try to use it on future-proof stuff. Personally, I used mine on a Rudder, Cosmic Kicks, Azumagun, Tashgun, two XSB3C's, two Sex bofors and three 533Mk9 torps.
sour oasis
Torpedoes
Planes are a more serious answer. You can +11 some purple helldivers as a stopgap until you can upgrade them for gold ones (you get the plates back but not all your gold coins).
I'm curious if +13 sex bofors are enough to stop gas/oil planes NOT named Wyvern.
light crystal
Would depend on the ship 🤔
Juneau cannot handle it by herself, not enough AA stat/AA Eff
elder crane
It's just, what, +18% dmg
light crystal
Maybe if u used with other heavier AA carry ships, like Ches/Seattle
elder crane
And given ppl were dropping avgas before... Yeah I havr my doubts
Seattlul
Pretty sure Seattle does barely any more AA than Juneau?
light crystal
Really? Even if u use double AA guns
Have u tested it? I happen to have a 120/200 Seattle, but haven't tested it myself
Maybe if I find some Wyvern user Imma try to AA meme and see how it goes
thin cosmos
reducing airstrike with AA gun is really possible concept?
elder crane
Sex bofors double AA radar Sandy with sex bofors Juneau did like 60% of the HP per tick... Of interception fighters with avgas
And in strike waves the dmg per plane will be lower
thin cosmos
Ofcourse you can reduce damage but enough to cover sacrificed other things like VG damage?
elder crane
Ye that's the problem, you certainly can do something but idk how much it would matter
Plus
+13 on planes increases HP iirc
thin cosmos
just killing CV before launch is much better solution
elder crane
The main things maybe is that CVs are everywhere so maybe can afford it now, or gear lab AA makes getting off second AA tick somewhat consistent
If not that then it'll be the same as before
Ye planes get a +18% (rounded) boost to HP for +13 it seems
So that completely offsets having +13 AA
Well, I guess not completely since avgas number is fixed, but close to it
thin cosmos
are there no buff for hp in pvp?
I mean for plane
with maximum AA setting, VG can deal about 3k per tick.
can cut 10s interception if plane hp has no buff
light crystal
just killing CV before launch is much better solution
Thats y I like to use my torp meme Defense. Wyvern or no Wyvern, it's a roll of the dice if they win or not, given how and on whom the torps hit
elder crane
are there no buff for hp in pvp?
There's a level based scaling and another 4x multiplier on that
+10 seemed to have roughly 4k HP, for reference
thin cosmos
+10 seemed to have roughly 4k HP, for reference
are you sure? 4k is insane so I wonder, also there are gap at plane hp between wiki and in game cause in wiki about 150hp
they have around 1k hp
the first sheep plane just got 1hit and almost dead
timid current
It's tough to say. Gold plates are not a commodity right now, so you need to pla...
why cosmic kicks? wont that disable the nagato buffs if used on a sakura ship?
timid current
oh i thought it would just disable it
thin cosmos
but I think 2evasion per upgrade too low compare to other gears
timid current
i put a gyroscope on my azuma but would the kicks be better even if the evasion is low? already using +13 rudder
thin cosmos
I like kick more but can depends on situation
gritty cove
intellectual gaming
candid sluice
abstract cypress
the real intellectual gaming
didnt kill opp b4 they could launch
anyone from lexi can tell how ez is my fleet?
glossy meteor
gosh darn it guys
lost my finale cause luckyE didn't proc at the end
and i redid it 3 times
proper sorrel
just stop using enty 
frail orbit
Ur Enty noob
glossy meteor
well i don't have much of a alternative for decent carrier rn
most i have are around 90 and she is 120 soo ya
also i don't wanna go with the ijn meta
and how does using enty make me a noob tho
glossy meteor
ah thanks also ya pro enty
partly she is my best carrier partly cause 8 sec invuln helps
also 'Merica
i see
timid current
i mean like, my oathed 120 shinano sometimes loses and i swap to my enty, who then proceeds to win so she isnt bad lol
just very rng
glossy meteor
ya it kinda suchs at times
i would've won my last battle if it procced and i lost cause i failed to reset in time
candid sluice
Enty is such a letdown
70% proc chance is a lie
Pretty sure there’s a hidden text where it swaps to 0% when you actually need it to proc
thin cosmos
some says it always active some says always not
radiant brook
Is there a hard counter to black torp+HMS gear lab torps?
frail orbit
No
Just mirror
Even Nelson flag wouldn't work that much
Simply koz +13 torp scaling are so beeg
Expect shin or FDG ass getting penetrated triple by skunk fartorps
thin cosmos
well the best counter is just putting torp bulge at all 6ships, then you would in trouble against other fleet
radiant brook
Just saw my shinano got murdered by skunk torp after my vanguard absorb half of the torps and die
So if half the torps are needed to kill a 120/200 shinano then yikes
candid sluice
Lead manjuu jun and pray to soak all torps
radiant brook
Reject armpit, return to mégane
trail temple
partly she is my best carrier partly cause 8 sec invuln helps
It's not a true invul, she can die during lucky E (and I am not referring to manjuu effect)
candid sluice
Ramming
trail temple
Futa ykkz > lucky E Enty
sour oasis
There is a hard counter to torpedoes, but it only works to a certain point. Torpedo meme defense, if cranked to 11, still has a chance to take someone out.
Best counter is to use boilers restart until their first salvo misses and the beatings can begin.
radiant brook
The thing about black torp+HMS is that: if they miss vanguard, they can guarantee a kill to the back
And it's enough to even kill 120/200 
sour oasis
Hence why I said 'best counter...'
Hard counter will take up slots that may neuter the offense capabilities of an incomplete navy.
sacred heath
The thing about black torp+HMS is that: if they miss vanguard, they can guarante...
except when vanguard pulls them slightly away and they miss entirely
which happens to me all the fkn time
radiant brook
Maybe my team was too monkey brain for that
I only see them eat the torps, or dodge and someone at the back dies
agile coral
thin cosmos
it's quite funny that most people said torp meme dead when blue first said about HMS torp
radiant brook
Blue: is casted out as a hoax crafter for warning us about the HMS torp crisis
Us, after getting crashed by HMS torp users: perhaps we have treated you too harshly
candid sluice
sour oasis
🔈 🔇
crude mortar
just add rainbow torp bulge to the game and i'll gladly whale for it
thin cosmos
and then you would lose to normal azuma team...
thin cosmos
torp bulge=sacrifice beacon or gas
thin cosmos
well then you just not understanding what's HMS torp
crude mortar
are you sure
thin cosmos
yes sure
crude mortar
what make you think i dont know
@elder crane yo
this guy think i didn't know about hms torp
yo
if you use normal ijn meta fleet
then you are bounded
to lose to other ijn meta with higher gear
and reset alot
i reset vs torp like 50-50 from what test with blazing comp
while other just reset again and again
just because you are weak to torp meme doesn't mean i'm weak to torp isn't it
@thin cosmos
that was when i didn't had wyvern and blazing had wyvern
i had wyvern now i believe i win alot easier vs torp meme
thin cosmos
well you are talking about different thing
people don't saying torp meme can't be break
crude mortar
yes
thin cosmos
it's rather -can't avoid reset
thin cosmos
and that 80% isn't enough
none of current defense fleet has that high try rate vs full team with best setting
crude mortar
if i had 3 wyv i think its more than 80%
thin cosmos
I guess not
crude mortar
how so
radiant brook
The thing about HMS torp+black torp is that:
If vanguard avoided it, it will go to the back and lock onto a backline
crude mortar
just tank it
radiant brook
It WILL kill someone, even if it's 120/200 fdg
thin cosmos
main issue is killing your back line not VG
crude mortar
then how about you just eat all the torp
and survive
you couldn't do it
doesn't mean i cant
radiant brook
That requires manjuu and even then your team can be monkey brain and expose the ones without manjuu to the torps
crude mortar
i use helena 65% torp reduction with noshiro and juneu i beat easily
frail orbit
Cassandra truth being inevitable
crude mortar
i reach 26th mark
their whole fleet just died
at 26th second
all their fleet just vaporized
unless you had sandy vg
or eld
defense fleet doesn't really matter to me
thin cosmos
that's why I try to make the best defense fleet)))))
crude mortar
depend on what you aim for defense fleet
if you aim to make enemy keep resetting
it just not possible if enemy actually know how to play game
thin cosmos
my aim is basically "defense fleet can be a problem"
crude mortar
kiro fleet
real meme
not winning
but losing 1.30+
and people get randomly stalled
candid sluice
mint hornet
frail orbit
Tfw I had to rush earlier
trail temple
Take the -1 and move on
mint hornet
kiro 
crude mortar
it lose
buoyant parrot
trail temple
Stuff of nightmares
thin cosmos
so what else can be matter?
crude mortar
stall people out of the game
you use torp meme
they saw you torp
they prepare
you saw this dogshit fleet
what you expecting
thin cosmos
so you also know torp defense matter
radiant brook
What even is kiro fleet
frail orbit
Inb4 PVP basically cockfight
mint hornet
buoyant parrot
oh wait was it CZ Delta who early drop out of the season coz of a retired torp meme?
frail orbit
Seriously
thin cosmos
well stronger players have very different concept of "what is nasty fleet"
frail orbit
radiant brook
Or maybe this yoon
mint hornet
i'm tied for first ether
crude mortar
yes
frail orbit
Use ur brain
crude mortar
hardware factor too
frail orbit
Kekw
buoyant parrot
😂
candid sluice
radiant brook
So what even is kiro fleet?
mint hornet
So what even is kiro fleet?
crude mortar
you see this fleet
candid sluice
crude mortar
ah its waifu fleet
radiant brook
Full stall?
candid sluice
Wtf is that vanguard
radiant brook
Why algerie
frail orbit
I frame memes
crude mortar
anti torp
radiant brook
Oh ok
radiant brook
John Dark
silent ocean
mean long as jeanne explodes in the first few sec ez win but yeah more then one shield mixed with eldridge would get annoying
crude mortar
game reach 20s
eldridge proc
he win vg trade
cuz cv fleet doesn't do anything vs eldge
frail orbit
And keep in mind
crude mortar
and he had
frail orbit
Geometric arrangement wise
crude mortar
hiryu enty
candid sluice
Enty hiryuu backline too
crude mortar
to try to cuck you too
candid sluice
Yea lmao
frail orbit
Torpmemes favor def fleet
Bkoz of 1 thing
Def fleet vg went closer to our backline
crude mortar
and sometime
silent ocean
placement yeah?
frail orbit
Than ours to their backline
frail orbit
Busted
frail orbit
Ur only hope
frail orbit
Is to stall with heavy/med
radiant brook
Guess IJN cancer isn't the primary defensive threat anymore
crude mortar
its meme fleet
crude mortar
if you aim for eos
frail orbit
Even with 2x twin 457
candid sluice
And u realize u need to reset 2 mins into the fight
crude mortar
^
frail orbit
Bkoz of WNT stalls the shit out of it
candid sluice
Hella annoying for eos rush
radiant brook
Weird, haven't met one yet
crude mortar
then what you do if you rush last 5min
crude mortar
^
frail orbit
Or worse
crude mortar
you might eat -10 from this shit
frail orbit
-1 tix
candid sluice
-2 even
thin cosmos
so your point is time spending is much more important than win rate?
crude mortar
are you going for end of season
candid sluice
For hardcore baggers ye
candid sluice
U want to waste as much time as possible
crude mortar
if not then defense fleet doesn't matter
candid sluice
It’s for those 10min baggers
crude mortar
10min bagger is easy
candid sluice
U want them to keep resetting till refresh
crude mortar
6min bagger thats when shit start to get hard
cuz if you 10min bagger
you might feed +1 point
to top rank player
and in the end they get top1
cuz you feed them
thin cosmos
alright alright now I see your point
buoyant parrot
just nuke kiro 1st 5 seconds, well if you're VG is strong enough to nuke it :) not a problem for seasoned veterans but for capt. that are just starting to build and get to know exercise including semi veterans will have a hard time against kiro meme
candid sluice
What fleet u using to clear that quickly
thin cosmos
sorry for previous chat
candid sluice
I can’t do 5 in 6 min
thin cosmos
you have very different goal of defense fleet
candid sluice
Yea that defense is to waste time
frail orbit
Smh laughin at what my shifu said a month ago being so true now
TL: told ye y choose the lesser dick if ur backline n vg could have big dick
thin cosmos
I care about retreat rate only
candid sluice
Lesser dick wkwk
buoyant parrot
if you are able to reach rank 1-20 at the last 20 mins, You'll see those seasoned veterans using Meta and without them even trying to stall you, you will get stalled coz of how just over powered their gears are^^
thin cosmos
anyway return to HMS torp, bulge can't save you from retreat
thin cosmos
well before HMS torp and with manjuu it was happy day and they were meat
frail orbit
Na it won't
frail orbit
Unless
crude mortar
to add 3rd torp crit rate buff ship into the game
frail orbit
1 thing
silent ocean
watch out for a naga retro XD
buoyant parrot
is anyone from the seasoned veterans already have 2 wyverns?
radiant brook
Scaling to +13?
frail orbit
Than atk aux n eq
mint hornet
is anyone from the seasoned veterans already have 2 wyverns?
does anyone? 
buoyant parrot
maybe blue is close to 2nd wyvern?
mint hornet
yea
thin cosmos
yes and it makes me so sad
sour oasis
Donald might have 2 (but not +13)
radiant brook
I feel like none of our suggestions to upscale def aux or nerf black torp+HMS will work
Unless CN shares the same sentiment
crude mortar
why is blue
thin cosmos
holly shitty luck game!
buoyant parrot
i miss that guy, I hope he rename himself now to Joe Biden
sour oasis
I miss Vladimir Purin
elder crane
are you sure? 4k is insane so I wonder, also there are gap at plane hp between w...
Well, when I brought sandyret with the team, 1.8k hits took off a bit over half the HP of interception planes during Hiryuu barrage, sooo
candid sluice
Blue is 2 away from second and I’m still 1 from my first
elder crane
how much did you bribe yostar <@!430396894993186816>
with you guys 
or well
with your salty tears
crude mortar
why did i get 8 torp
what have i done in my life to desrved this luck
@midnight heron
radiant brook
I got my first wyvern only this month 
candid sluice
5 mg 3 aa for me
sour oasis
why did i get 8 torp
Because it was funny
crude mortar
im so sure im getting my rainbow torp before 2nd wyvern
candid sluice
But u can make rainbow magtorps at least
crude mortar
i rather trade
candid sluice
Wtf am I supposed to do with aa prints
candid sluice
Rainbow octuple bofors with 45 range and dps of sexybofors
sour oasis
I don't even have OpSi gear and I'm still going for AotN day 12 set 2
radiant brook
I'm 2/9 to 2nd with one print left in shop
radiant brook
It is, you already got one wyvern already
crude mortar
are you saying 2/9 with no wyvern
uncut agate
I haven't seen a single HMS torp + black torp vanguard in Lexington
buoyant parrot
is +13 Mag Torp + 2 Rainbow +13 Dil better than
this?
radiant brook
Lexington is ultra laid back
Avrora is anything but laid back
crude mortar
wtf is that torp
thin cosmos
both shit
radiant brook
IJN gear lab torp
crude mortar
who use that
crude mortar
its missile
buoyant parrot
that's the strongest none homming torp in the game.
buoyant parrot
really???
crude mortar
yes
buoyant parrot
ima check that HMS
crude mortar
its clearly missile launcher
buoyant parrot
buoyant parrot
but isn't that too spread out? but since I'm using Gold Dild. Maybe that can do more damage that quint
frail orbit
It tends to be clustered