u could pause and quit to retry
#pvp
abstract cypress
radiant brook
Well yes I was hoping she could proc at last second
Doubt it would make a difference though, locked to a 4/4 cancer with no more refreshes
slender atlas
this week i lost 4 time by shinano hyryu, 
what team can deal with that meta pvp fleet?
elder crane
mirror
To be more serious, if you don't have IJN, then Frenchies or Enty-PoW are good enough choices presumably
slender atlas
i have everything except hyryu .lol
elder crane
Nagato-amagi-Shinano works well enough
With Juneau-yukikaze/Suzutsuki-Azuma
slender atlas
try but lose 2 .lol, i dk if it RNG or not
slender atlas
what is ol wasd?
abstract cypress
ol = old, wasd = washi sd enty
slender atlas
slender atlas
surprise
abstract cypress
probably ur equip that bad
radiant brook
What makes them good at dealing cancer?
abstract cypress
they dont do good
at least its strong
with good ships + eq u could beat anything
cuz 20% buff
slender atlas
i think it about ship rather than gear, i have all gear +10
slender atlas
2 bacu and sb2c
slender atlas
not use, it usually miss.
slender atlas
reduce cd + speed plane as aux
slender atlas
maybe😤 fdg usually suck, salvo go to vanguard
and my juneau not equip the immortal item, so lazy to change from helena to jeneau everytime i want to pvp.
slender atlas
for hyryu meta
thin cosmos
why do you use fdg instead nagato??
also wyvern and 13 gear is dangerous even for mirror so should watch and rdy to retreat in bad luck
elder crane
mmmm nah you really want full dev30 for FdG to be worth using
elder crane
ye but it's not like you have a choice on equipment
FdG at dev25 is straight inferior to many other available options
elder crane
I refuse to believe you don't have anything better if you already have FdG at dev25
sterile bobcat
what aux does azuma generally run?
sour oasis
Evasion
light crystal
If putting Beaver Tag on the back on one of the BB's, run Rudder/CosmicKicks on Azuma, if doing triple CV and with full CV gear at the back, run Rudder/Beaver on Azuma.
Bottomline: Always run Beaver on PvP, and always run best (Rudder) + next best (Kicks or Beaver) Eva Aux on Azuma.
sour oasis
If you lack a research gold rudder, the blue rarity camo/wheel are poverty substitutes work fine too.
crude jetty
How can you get these Kicks?
elder crane
Muse special event
crude jetty
sooooo... Ill never get it ever again? >.<
elder crane
Probably next yr unless they include a copy version in a collab event or something
light crystal
Mediocre reward system certainly doesn't incentive long term commitment beyond winning a battle for "fun" and placing high on a scoreboard for a very fixed amount of time. Maybe they do something about it, maybe they don't. Until them, PvP away at your discretion
candid sluice
sour oasis
<:AE1_zero_think:735771982146043904>
Auto Lane.
What part of this game is exciting?
thin cosmos
As I think, trash pvp system is intended by developers
and it works really well as trash
light crystal
Well, to be fair, game started very indie at first. And PvP system hasn't gotten any true meaningful overhaul since inception, beyond the Stealth update, which was more of a global thing that also affected PvE. So it's not so much that it was intended to be barebones from the beginning than more of not getting too many resources allocated to it.
Perfect example is the Guild 2.0 update. It did revamp Guild system from being an afterthought for most players to actually being useful now. Said sorta revamp has not happened to PvP, well yet anyway. Maybe one day we get Exercises 2.0. Or we don't. I do still want them to revamp reward system, nonetheless.
thin cosmos
hmm your thinking is quite different with me.
Since Azur lane has quite high income, so they could add more game contents if they really wanted
It's not a game with really high graphics and developer effort
about guild system also, they could add it but so many don't like guild system, so they didn't add it.
So recent guild update is due to their target user change, not developing ability
radiant brook
Lost my 7th exercise, my shinano died right after enemy enty goes down and explodes
It's the 1 second between last enemy goes down and victory screen appears
light crystal
I wait till the last second myself cuz of muh sense of pride and acc♿ mplishment. Usually works out cuz of Attack bonus, and using meta fleets with stable RNG conditions to win anyway 
Like, 3 resets needed to "win" in the last 3 weeks I think? Usually roll over everything, even if dip into low HP.
candid sluice
I always reset before last second situations like those, I don’t trust my internet nor my reaction time to pause and reset in case I lose
thin cosmos
yeah don't have to take risk
candid sluice
Can’t afford to lose points for eos 
light crystal
Not that I'm put in a position I have to take that risk often, more of once in a blue moon, but when I do and I see muh bitches come on top, it feels nice
If everyone else is ded, like VG and Nagato, and only CV's are alive, gold Helldivers shine. They can take care of straggler VG's still alive harassing ur CV's lel
Blessed be the 🙏
thin cosmos
I would retreat in case I have 1% chance of lose
light crystal
I think the only one time I'd run Suiseis on my CV's for Miryuu in a 3 CV config, so she proc the Blue skill barrage. The other 2 XSB3C, and gold Suisei on Miryuu. So I can run Wyvern and some other non-IJN Fighter.
I feel Miryuu/Hiryuu/Shinano have some viability as a trio. More so than Shinano/Hiryuu/Enty, cuz LE can be too RNG
I think once you got free access to Wyvern, it's gonna be whoever can stack more of them on their fleets, hence trio CV comps may see an uprise
So like, stacking up to 4 Wyvern over just the 3 that Nagato/Shin/Hiryuu can might be the way of the future
thin cosmos
I don't think so
radiant brook
Or wipe vanguard fast enough to justify ryuusei memes and take out a backline immediately
radiant brook
Alteryuu gets bonus from IJN planes though
light crystal
Dont be silly, that doesn't mean jack shit kek
Put FM on center Miryuu, than run Shinano/Hiryuu side. She will buff everyone with FM, and Shinano will buy self and regular Hiryuu. Probably better than Nagato/Shin/Hiryuu at that point tbh
So much plane
Much carnage
🛩️ 
thin cosmos
just show with record
candid sluice
Just use enty with +13 helldiver
thin cosmos
I already tested soryuu+hiryuu+shinano and it's worse than meta of now
candid sluice
Vanguard = 🛫🛫
candid sluice
Too bad miryuu red skill can’t be synced with her airstrikes easily
thin cosmos
So it's matter of who is faster
light crystal
Getting there is the problem, Wyvern supply is currently low, so u can get away with just 2CV/1BB. But should change as they become more available over time.
STACK THE WYVERN
thin cosmos
moreover 1BB is needed for counter BB deck
light crystal
So yeah. Getting there. Working on it. One day
Until then we stick with Nagato/Shin/Hiryu
🙏
radiant brook
Wait why 1 BB is needed to fight against enemy BB formation?
candid sluice
Gotta love getting aa print from r6
radiant brook
Isn't 3 CV makes enemy BB unable to target and fire?
thin cosmos
your vg would be focused with fire so much higher chance to deleted
which is disaster for CV
radiant brook
Oh ok I thought I was dumb for putting monarch along with 
thin cosmos
no it's good use
candid sluice
I’m still using warkai
radiant brook
never yeet half of nugget health for me
candid sluice
Mines takes her out first volley
thin cosmos
if she survive, 18seconds, it's totally ok
candid sluice
Despacito + hpfcr +13 champgun melts
thin cosmos
just save 1of your VG till the 2nd air strike, all ok
candid sluice
And her nepgun aux dmg against enemy vg is always nice
radiant brook
Should I use monarch+fdg gun+boomer radar in pvp?
candid sluice
U guys think this is a +1? Rank 100 is 1433
thin cosmos
high chance as I think
elder crane
Put FM on center Miryuu, than run Shinano/Hiryuu side. She will buff everyone wi...
You're short 10% dmg and 20% hit buff (and 10% reload buff)
So it's Miryuu (who gets no other buffs mind you) vs Nagato (who is tankier as well)+12% dmg on Hiryuu and Shinano+significantly better hitrates (vs vanguard we're talking close to 10% dmg)+launching first
and buffs for IJN vanguard as well
ye... lol no
elder crane
enjoy doing less dmg later 
light crystal
Well actually, I want to try it when I get more Wyverns or some shit. Dont see the need to jump ship and go tri-CV just yet anyway
K Spreadsheet guy
elder crane
if anything you might as well try if you don't have Wyverns
abstract cypress
K Spreadsheet guy
light crystal
Nagato/Shi/Hiryu get the job done for now, but I do need to look for triple CV alternatives in the future. I think Miryuu fits the bill. Over Shin/Hiryu/Enty anyway
elder crane
idk why you're so obssesed with running 3 CV
if you just don't have a good option available then it's just worse, nothing much to say
light crystal
I dunno, haven't really seen ppl using Wyverns in Washington anyway
Too few ppl have them atm
elder crane
I mean I guess same reason why ppl run like KMS and stuff
abstract cypress
after beatin ijns bs i almost lose cuz this freakin DR comp
this 16k power scares me
hes not even pvp hc
fck i should ss
light crystal
16k Fleets are probably meme tbh
abstract cypress
yea
light crystal
Not enough plates to +13 over 10 pieces of gear atm
elder crane
you get enough plates to have ~1/3 of equip +13 rn, ofc ignoring rainbow shit
But if it's FdG barrage that's just
well
your team being shit tbh
light crystal
elder crane
Overall I've not actually been all that impressed with wyverns
it's certainly a noticeable improvement but not like really major
which is kinda suprising tbh
light crystal
U did put it on Hiryuu aight?
abstract cypress
i still half bp for a wyvern
elder crane
Shinano slot 3 duh
light crystal
wdym duh
abstract cypress
probably got one in few months
light crystal
Maybe thats ur problem lmao
abstract cypress
light crystal
It should be on Hiryuu cuz higher TB Eff
elder crane
Shinano has higher base stats to back it up
light crystal
Also, if she dies and procs Blue, she launches an airstrike
elder crane
also 4 planes > 3 planes
light crystal
Meaning more Wyverns in the air
elder crane
also Hiryuu wants to be fast to launch for Hiryuu vs Hiryuu
light crystal
lmao
abstract cypress
elder crane
nah even at 3 vs 2 strikes Nano slot 3 is more dmg than Hiryuu
light crystal
I think u should try it on Hiryuu muh dude
elder crane
you get much higher AVI backing it up
and 4 planes vs 3
plus Nano launching slower is fine, but Hiryuu launching slower is shitty for the mirror
light crystal
I think ur doing it wrong with ur single Wyvern
elder crane
and ofc +4 planes for spotting is more than +3
light crystal
Gotta test it on my end with a Wyvern on Hiryuu ofc
ebon kraken
light crystal
But until I do so and see for myself, Imma think that u really outta be putting ur first ever Wyvern on Hiryuu over Shinano
abstract cypress
🍿
light crystal
Can't take another guy's word till I see it on action
elder crane
Is this the 2x+12 helldiver shit again
light crystal
light crystal
Now ur being rude lol
Chill
I just said I gotta see it on actin for myself to be proven wrong
Nothing to it
elder crane
anyways Nano makes much better use of it since 4 plane slot + higher AVI
effs don't even matter for crash dmg
light crystal
Well, I'm going with the logic of killing VG first anyway
light crystal
Hmm, gotta see it. Like I said higher Eff and if blue skill procs launches an airstrike right away
elder crane
even if you ignore everything else, the +20 Avi boosts Nano dmg more
higher eff doesn't make up for higher AVI and 4 plane slot vs 3 plane slot
and vs vanguard Hiryuu FC doesn't matter
candid sluice
Exc are u trolling?
light crystal
Ur running Fighter/DB/TB right? Or double TB on Shinano?
elder crane
that shouldn't hit vanguard in the first place
thin cosmos
too be honest, it's 8 TB vs 9TB
elder crane
Fighter ofc since spotting things
thin cosmos
in most case
light crystal
@candid sluice dont see y
I run Fighter for interception lol
Sometimes I see Shinano do fuckton of DMG over Hiryuu. I imagine it has to do because she's downing more planes or something
Like, Shinano racking up like 40 kills or some shit
And hiryuu like 20
elder crane
we're talking 900 vs 800 base AVI things too
thin cosmos
shinano has benefit with 1more interception plane
elder crane
Nano did much more dmg even with no AA-gun planes basically
thin cosmos
hiryuu has benefit with sync air strike
light crystal
I run Hornet. High base dmg on bombs
I think good compromise in general. And ofc VF17 on Hiryuu
elder crane
anyways it's
4x140% with 900 ish aviation backing it
vs
3x150% with 800 ish aviation backing it
kinda a no-brainer
for strike planes you're looking at 8 Nano vs 9 Hiryuu, but Hiryuu FC won't be hitting into opponent vanguard anyways if you're looking at that
but you also have intercept on top of that, which you're looking at either 12 vs 9 interception planes or 16 vs 12 interception planes in favor of Nano
light crystal
Btw
elder crane
I'm going with F7F on Nano for now since higher crash/HP
With Hiryuu launching first, plane speed isn't so much an issue anyways
elder crane
ye ofc
cause it kinda is in final calc...?
who cares about AVI without gear
that's with gear and Nano buffs
light crystal
Wut do u mean by 3x and 4x? I dont get that
elder crane
planes in the slot
light crystal
Isn't it the same for all CV's?
elder crane
...no?
abstract cypress
light crystal
Ohhh
elder crane
Hiryuu slots are 3/2/3 planes per slot
thin cosmos
come on...
elder crane
Shinano is 2/3/4
abstract cypress
spreadsheet guy wins
elder crane
there's like
thin cosmos
shinano only 4)
light crystal
In a single one?
thin cosmos
cento
light crystal
So those 3 have 4 planes in one TB slot?
light crystal
Cuz I was thinking both Shinano and Hiryuu had 3 planes on their TB slot
thin cosmos
anyway return to wyvern, dealing would be not much different
elder crane
crash is around 1k ish it seems btw
light crystal
But if Shinano has more, well makes better sense she makes better use of any one single Wyvern u have at the time
thin cosmos
so better focus on interception+reload
elder crane
so like you get extra 8k ish dmg by 25 s ish
hmm
if you put it that way
that's a lot
candid sluice
thin cosmos
I mean puting at hiryuu vs shinano
elder crane
nah I mean on the impact Wyverns have
light crystal
She has an extra Ryusei airstrike on her barrage, right?
Is that 3 planes or also 4?
elder crane
2 planes
light crystal
Oh
elder crane
2 Ryuuseis and 2 bombers
light crystal
Suiseis, I suppose?
thin cosmos
siden
elder crane
iirc it was 2x1k or something weird per plane
light crystal
Well I see
thin cosmos
with 100% slot effectiveness
if hiryuu cooldown is more important, must put wyvern at shinano
light crystal
Nah
thin cosmos
but still I wonder importance of fast reload of shinano
light crystal
I would run Wyvern on Shinano over Hiryuu cuz more planes like Blue said at first. Cooldown has very little to do imo
elder crane
I mean for Hiryuu maybe even given the option you wouldn't want wyverns
light crystal
Make better usage of the extra Wyvern planes
elder crane
depends if the dmg matters enough to be slower to launch than enemy Hiryuu
especially if torpmemes returns to meta
thin cosmos
but sometimes fast reload is bad
light crystal
Well, running better planes that have bigger alpha to kill the other Vg first is better than worrying too much about winning Hiryuu duels
thin cosmos
you have chance to launch while invincible
light crystal
Like, the amount of times I see Hiryuu duels having have matter for me is like less than 3%
elder crane
ye but
- invincibility would have to wear off in the like 1 s time diff
- strike timings don't line up anyways for that
so you'd have to proc FC on not an airstrike
if torpmemes is the meta, expect to see a lot of Hiryuu vs Hiryuu
light crystal
Well, I kill hiryuu mirrors all the time
thin cosmos
there's difference with both VG gone
elder crane
with both VG gone, strike time is just halved
elder crane
so one strike proc FC, next strike does nothing, then the strike after that decides
or interception shit
tbf
thin cosmos
and you can't fix what time the skill activated so it's quite random time
elder crane
Wyverns means you have dmg advantage on intercept
maybe also dmg granularity too since reload on it is diff from fighters
light crystal
I think I've had only had one battle come down to Hiryuu v Hiryuu being the last ones alive in the past 5 weeks or so
One.
So like
I think I'm fine for now lol
elder crane
Well 2 more month for Wyvern #2 unless lucky?
I'll have 2 UR plane prints for sure by end of this month
light crystal
U mean a second one?
elder crane
ye
thin cosmos
he just mentioning some print not 9
light crystal
Then again, ive resigned myself with shitty luck so w/e
elder crane
also I've gotten ungodly luck last month, probably won't last lol
thin cosmos
well the guy with wyvern now, definitly lucky...
elder crane
already 2 UR prints dropped this reset of which neither is plane lol
I got 5 total UR plane print drops
3 from cat 2 from abyss
light crystal
One thing's for sure. Even tho I have the girls for torp meme (Naganami, Noshiro, Jintsuu and Ayanami if needed), I never intend to actually use torp meme
I dont want RNG to dictate my battles
So fuck that shit
thin cosmos
I dont want RNG to dictate my battles too
light crystal
Low RNG meta Fleets are better
elder crane
so far it's nice to have a team that doesn't take almost 1 min avg to win fights vs good defenses
torpmemes really cuts battle time almost in half
thin cosmos
I want RNG to dictate opponents battles!
elder crane
surprisingly low RNG for now probably cause I haven't seen any good defense torpmemes lol
that will be yabai given how often I snipe enemy main fleet ship instantly on offense already
with just +10
light crystal
U survive the first torp salvo hell
Ur golden
Cuz then they die on first airstrike
I suppose if thye get lucky and fully snipe away one of ur CV's with some god tier RNG, then ur fucked
Butlike
elder crane
well ideally for torpmemes both vanguards die...
then it's hope torps smacked main fleet a bit
light crystal
That's 1/300 kinda scenario imo
elder crane
not... really tbh
Shinanoyuu vs meta stall was already quite close to consistently 1-striking enemy vanguard
thin cosmos
btw I tested ibuki alone and it wasn't enough to cover speed gap
elder crane
add in any torp dmg, and it's 
light crystal
Well, maybe if I fight more sweaty torp meme I might run into some higher rate of bullshit
But like, as long as ur Cv's are alive for first airstrike exchange
Thats all u need
Cuz Attack bonus
lel
elder crane
that's the weird thing so far
offense has been ridiculous so far, but I see no one running it on defense
like I smack down enemy main at least one ship at least below half HP over half the time on offense
With only +10 stuff
and with ~1/3 of the time half my torps timing out before hitting main since offense things
light crystal
Well
elder crane
really not looking forwards to seeing +13 shit on defense
light crystal
To run it optimally
U need 3 of those new HMS torps, and 3 black dildos
And like
Not everyone is gonna have that
So yeah
thin cosmos
for my case, I just don't to give anyway chance of losing to weak teams
light crystal
If worst comes to worst
elder crane
anyone without Manjuu Juneau lead just explodes basically
light crystal
I'll tweak my Offense a lil better to account for resurgence on nasty torp memes
Untill then
elder crane
so that's like minimum req for offense torpmemes to begin to have trouble
thin cosmos
they just can shoot at bottom or top of screen
light crystal
WNT/Manju Juneau is enough
thin cosmos
then it's totally suck
elder crane
that means you murder a main fleet ship
thin cosmos
no sometimes it just way over that ship line
elder crane
even CV since they sit at top/bottom naturally so even without homing they get murdered
light crystal
I think Imma hafta lock myself out from torp meme, well mid or so term anyway, if the gold plate rate stays as-is. I can't be arsed +13'ing a bunch of HMs torps that I don't even want to use, whereas I could be +13'ing planes instead
thin cosmos
torp use different parts so in 4month, 3 13 torp would be rdy
light crystal
Well. eventually u would accrue enough torp plates over time, I guess? But like, at least for the ones that are convertible, I would convert those into other things, like Aux and plane plates. Even AA, I dunno lol
light crystal
Probably not as efficient if u want to guarantee a snipe with a higher success rate
Cuz if the torps are +13, ud have to land less to potentially fully snipe a backliner or VG away, therefore lowering the high inherent RNG
elder crane
when enemy VG go upside, your torp just do nothing
Unless dumped literally at bottom edge or far back, that means bottom main is getting chunked if running linears
elder crane
Anyways idk why but I recorded 10 mins of initial torps + Naganami 10 s launch, uploading whenever it feels like it wants to complete
light crystal
Naganami is pretty strong for an Elite eh
I think she could be an SSR and still be considered strong
elder crane
Whyyy
Can
I
Not find a single lead Manjuu Juneau smh
To test against
This guy I just found, so close, but just is running Noshiro +Bulge on lead Jun
Sadly that does nothing for main fleet
That was a Nano on the bottom
elder crane
Yes I'm on Avrora
But everyone good is sandbagging I guess
So very hard to find good def fleets right now
light crystal
Maybe they sandbag toomuch and everyone in top 500 uses shitty defences 
Thats y I like it in WA. A good balance between the try harding and everyone not giving a shit and putting try hard defences all the time
elder crane
Ye everyone top uses shitty def mostly and the good ppl are hiding among shitters so can't spot
Also is not yet week 2 so maybe many ppl not running proper def yet
light crystal
I really rather have a higher ratio of ppl trying defences over not
Well, sometimes is good they put shit defences to get quick fights here and there
But eh
Overall I like to see a challenge
elder crane
Idk why ppl want to let others up for "muh maybe 1 bonus pt"
Just increases competition for final rankings really, other sandbaggers can also get bonus
light crystal
I read the wiki explanation for it
ANd I never agreed with it on principle
I say everyone should try hard their defence if they can
elder crane
And maybe with strong def you can knock out someone not paying attention every so often
Linear torpmemes esp maybe since the fleet power on vanguard is pretty low
light crystal
If they want to level up their shitters oil-free, well they have to put some effort against try hard defences
sour oasis
Whyyy
Can
I
Not find a *single* lead Manjuu Juneau smh
Desire detector. Gatcha will never give you what you want.
meanwhile I'm facing five flex fleets that take at least two resets and two minutes to whittle through
light crystal
explain what is this
Wut the super sweaties have done to maintain 100% across the board after years of playing
Looking at u, Donald Trump from Avrora
dull hollow
muse lusty
is kinda
super funny in pvp
illus "i got tired of protecting my teammates so i protect them by evaporating enemy yukikazes" trious
abstract cypress
Wut the super sweaties have done to maintain 100% across the board after years o...
im on saratoga
trail temple
radiant brook
9 losses, might as well quit AoTN this season
abstract cypress
just attack the most left man
uncut agate
you don't have enough score
candid sluice
U shouldn’t even be worrying abt ranking 
light crystal
@elder crane Yo, wut gun do u use on Juneau. A damage one, like 138/130mm, or the general use one, like 114mm?
More AA, better ballistics, AoA like 30% faster. No fire damage. Time to test it out I guess 👏
Under these scenarios where Juneau lives after enemy VG is ded and starts shooting at the backline, 138mm could be better, I dunno
dim portal
light crystal
Y u hide name 
light crystal
abstract cypress
with that id rather hide lvl than name
i thought its just a pict turn out a gif
that eyes scares me
candid sluice
elder crane
Under these scenarios where Juneau lives after enemy VG is ded and starts shooti...
If Jun is starting to shoot enemy main you've won anyways
AA not really a concen imo given how high it is already and that Jun dying before 30 s is a positive and Manjuu gives straight immunity already
So I was using twin 128, technically is highest DpS if it does pens a decent amount
Honestly not too much diff with just running twin 130
coral wren
btw can juneau make hiryuu activate final counter twice?
iron knoll
Why al pvp fleet has hiryuu and Juneau in?
Like the most pvp I do i only see juneau hiryuu
sacred heath
because they're both excellent for pvp
juneau can heal a lot, plus she can use the elite damage control aux
hiryuu does good damage and has 15s invincibility
iron knoll
Ohh okay
light crystal
Hmmm
sour oasis
im hardstuck captain for 3 days now
Have you won every exercise? You get 15 a day. You don't even have to fight the left most, just get wins. This will eventually take you to the top ranks like fleet Admiral by day 14 (when more players at the top skip exercises)
light crystal
So hard to decide
I guess Ill stick to 114mm and go back to 138mm if I dont like it or something then, so I'll keep that 138mm in reserve lel
sour oasis
Actual question : I've seen defense Hiryu activate final counter while still having 1/6 of their HP. Their vanguard had long died. Is this because Hiryu had pearl on her and I didn't see that?
light crystal
I think general consnesus is to put good damage gun on Juneau then
Some ppl even use 130mm lel
sacred heath
@sour oasis iirc, whatever the killshot would've been is just disregarded
so if she got pegged by a 457 shell, she could have way more than 1hp remaining at FC proc
light crystal
It isn't an issue usually tho
If u see ur games coming down to Blue skill rpoc it could be an issue
sour oasis
For the most part, not really. But my RNG gets weird sometimes.
light crystal
But that should be a safety net, and u shouldnt really be playing around having to rely to getting ur Hiryuu being last one alive all the time lol
sour oasis
Well, I've seen solo defense Hiryu make my half dead Yukikaze all dead. Somehow.
I'm assuming my Yuki did a lot of stupid ramming while FC was on, and died to a random bomber drop. But that's like Glowworm levels of headbutting.
🎲
light crystal
Dont underestimate concentrated point blank Helldiver bombs.
radiant brook
Oh look 4/4 cancer at rank 1k and no more refreshes
sour oasis
@radiant brook Aura seems beatable
radiant brook
Nope, fought him and lost every time
sour oasis
What was the head to head stats?
radiant brook
He had a formidable that launches around the same time as shinano and melts my vanguard immediately
And he had jda that procs holy prayer all the time
royal oyster
you can wait for reset since you're at 4/10
sour oasis
royal oyster
then you get 5 more refreshes
plus if your bar for cancer fleets is fully equipped level 120s you're going to have some struggles
sour oasis
And he had jda that procs holy prayer all the time
That's likely because you have a rapid fire vanguard or airstrikes.
radiant brook
Well the other 3 are the standard nanoryuu torp meme
royal oyster
middle two have unusually low main fleet power
sour oasis
Do you have more level 115 meta ships yet?
royal oyster
probably not fully armed
radiant brook
No that holy prayer procs right after the last one ends
sour oasis
That's not how it works
radiant brook
Still the same 6, still grinding PR so the ships are pretty spread out in levels
sour oasis
Do you want to focus to win now, or focus on PR to win later.
Or just give up scaling PvP until you're ready.
radiant brook
Idk, I just don't want to meet hard counters left and right at rank 1k+
Imagine refreshing 5 times and it's the same torp meme cancer every time
sour oasis
Rank 1k is where the bottleneck should happen. (A year or two ago, it was rank 3k)
I mean, what rank did you expect it to show up en masse?
radiant brook
300?
sour oasis
... Why 300?
radiant brook
Because that's the highest you guys posted that has meme fleets?
sour oasis
Who? Where? When?
radiant brook
I feel like meme fleets that can be taken down easily just don't exist in avrora pvp
Every time I refresh it's just the same torp meme fleet and torp meme fleet
sour oasis
They do. It's rare, but they do. I run one.
radiant brook
Huh why haven't I see one ever since this season began?
sour oasis
🎲 🍀 
@radiant brook Rank 10 Tsaku runs a relatively weak defense fleet.
Rank 16 Alyausha has almost no defense fleet.
Rank 15: Peniku8 has half a defense fleet.
radiant brook
Fake, after a week of constant refreshes i should have seen one by now
But nope, it's either proper cancer or discount cancer
sour oasis
You're in a tight spot. The bottleneck is filled with tryhards who crab bucket each other to reach the top 100.
Fake
I bet you never believed in Santa either.
You're not diversified enough to get through the tryhard mob to reach the coasting zone.
You really should focus on getting the most out of Juneau (which means getting Yorktown). She's a great budget equalizer.
candid sluice
If u don’t even hav the basic top meta ships how can u even hope to beat anyone top 1k
Against two opponents whose backline isn’t over 14k power
sour oasis
If u don’t even hav the basic top meta ships how can u even hope to beat anyone ...
They were expecting this at rank 300. I don't get their logic why, but this pretty typical brain "expectations meeting reality"
candid sluice
Reality is often disappointing
sour oasis
And unforgiving.
candid sluice
If you’re getting hard walled at 1k then maybe it’s a sign to stop expecting to rank up
Especially against torpmeme
sour oasis
TBH two years ago this hit me at rank 3k. Took an extra few months of focusing on PvP to move into the lower merit ranks.
candid sluice
You can’t raise godly pvp ships instantly lol
sour oasis
Well, it was more like godly workarounds.
candid sluice
That’s why u need to spend time actually raising ships
Instead of complaining about bad rng
sour oasis
I was using Enty and pre-kai Hiryu to counter A-kaga.
radiant brook
Well I was hoping to see at least a meme fleet or 2 in rank 1k
candid sluice
That attacker bonus gives u more breathing room to use whatever fleets u can work with
sour oasis
@radiant brook there probably is... But literally just one or two in a thousand.
candid sluice
I’ve pushed to aotn using Long Island enty combo come on
sour oasis
I’ve pushed to aotn using Long Island enty combo come on
But your ships were probably 120
sour oasis
Two years ago, cognitive chips just began. And today it's torpedo memes.
sour oasis
Took a few resets but it worked out
Quantify 'a few'
candid sluice
5-6 per matchup
sour oasis
Yeah, that's what I was expecting.
candid sluice
Gotta wait till u see quick takeoff proc 17 times in a row
But that combo actually did put in hella work
sour oasis
I can attest to using level 90 LI and Ranger to RNG through early PvP. Took a few more resets, but yeah, looking for the same pattern.
radiant brook
So i was investing in the wrong ships all along
sour oasis
So i was investing in the wrong ships all along
Which ones are you investing in? (You eventually have to invest in most of them to deal with different fleets)
radiant brook
The current 6 I'm using
Trying to bring Juneau up but not enough bulins, and Yorktown never dropped so can't get manjuu
sour oasis
The current 6 I'm using
You need more than 6... Also keep trying for Yorktown.
Also, check the exchange. Yorktown (and Juneau) show up in the medal exchange too.
radiant brook
@candid sluice MLB, and I had pretty shitty luck for drops
Never got Juneau drop from story, only event
Even then it was only 1 copy
sour oasis
Sounds like your luck is crap overall.
radiant brook
Pretty evident by the complete inexistence of meme fleets in my refreshes
candid sluice
It’s week 2
radiant brook
It dosen't exist in week 1 as well
sour oasis
Yeah, sorry. All I have are words of encouragement. Ganbatte ne.
candid sluice
Meme fleets that once existed are no longer there
radiant brook
I already told Mr F about this earlier
sour oasis
Meme fleets that once existed are no longer there
They're there, just much less.
radiant brook
I posted that one screenshot about 4/4 cancer in rank 4k
That should be an omen enough
candid sluice
Maybe you should... slow down and work on building a proper fleet
sour oasis
I still think you can beat Auta
With enough retries. Maybe shift your ships and equipment.
candid sluice
Complaining ain’t gonna get u anywhere
sour oasis
I still don't know exactly what you have
radiant brook
I did, lucked out a win when jda never proc'd holy prayer even once
sour oasis
And why you're fixated on the six.
radiant brook
Because they are the only 120 I had
candid sluice
At least one proper fleet
If u want to actually rank up u need to raise proper ships
sour oasis
At least one proper fleet
Don't even need a proper fleet. Just need something close... And a lot of restarts.
A lot of restarts.
candid sluice
Indeed
But I still could pick up wins before knowing u could restart the fight
Use something like lucky e or helena dicerolls
sour oasis
Or both. Ugh. So much RNG.
This is why I hated RPG with random stats Fire Emblem because so much RNG grinding isn't good for the brain.
candid sluice
Not good for mental stability yes
That’s why I never took pvp seriously during my early days
sour oasis
That's why I don't take PvP seriously during my later days
radiant brook
Current PvP fleet, and suitable replacements(?)
sour oasis
You need to really replace Swiftsure sooner than later. Is she helping you win at all?
abstract cypress
thats great fleet
trail temple
I only like 1/3 of that vg
north vine
no juneau 
abstract cypress
thats also a problem yes
sour oasis
I wanna say Swiftsure. Sirius (buffing CV) might be better... But there are a lot of backline alternatives, but few vanguard ones.
north vine
you need a few more ijn if possible, for shin to do more
abstract cypress
shin skill need ijns
north vine
blue is not activated fully
abstract cypress
usin same fleet from 2 years ago, still stonks 
sour oasis
shin skill need ijns
It's only a small self buff. Loewe doesn't have another IJN CV to take advantage of the CV buff.
sour oasis
Current PvP fleet, and suitable replacements(?)
How does their gear look?
sour oasis
+13 gear would be a great level equalizer
sour oasis
+13 wouldn't hurt 
radiant brook
Hold on lemme take the screenshot and upload to Imgur
sour oasis
That's like 6. ||Don't tempt the mods||
abstract cypress
fuck mods
they love dead channels
pvp was a part of main
b4 shitty mods attack
ban everyone and demote it to club
radiant brook
7 actually, will include warspite gear
Wait
The link is in, it's a bit unintuitive
@sour oasis
candid sluice
What’s the rest of ur fleet
candid sluice
Uhh that aux gun
sour oasis
You are running a lot of AP guns when you take on DD and CL.
candid sluice
No vanguard assist from warspite I guess
trail temple
The shells' effects don't work on warkai's snipes btw
candid sluice
I use ap on warkai
sour oasis
Also +11 those helldivers if you can. Any edge you can make to crack the enemy vanguard means you get to the nuts on the backline faster.
radiant brook
Should I use fdg gun on monarch? Already +10
trail temple
ryuuseis are super hit and miss too
you need to clear vg before they can really be impactful
sour oasis
Helena's very optimized. But yeah, lack of HE vanguard guns is definitely a hurting point for your CA CL and BB.
sour oasis
Bel's triple gun is... Very baseline to put it kindly.
radiant brook
Available CL guns (ignore DD guns)
Also should I give RooM sanrui gun or core gun? Both +10
sour oasis
That.. That's not a big selection. Lacking in research guns (like the +14 on Helena).
For PvP purposes of setting stuff on fire, the core shop gun.
candid sluice
Why +13 seattlegun
sour oasis
It's HE.
candid sluice
But why
sour oasis
It's what they have.
sour oasis
candid sluice
That is just cringe to see
sour oasis
I don't even have the mats to +11 equipment
candid sluice
Lol
radiant brook
So I invested in the wrong stuff again
Guess I'm very good at picking the absolute worst shit to invest in
candid sluice
Not sure what the thought process behind +13 seattlegun was
radiant brook
For pve stuff?
abstract cypress
For pve stuff?
for waifu
radiant brook
What +13 should I do next on the guns?
radiant brook
Champy gun is still +7, although thats my +10 priority
abstract cypress
Even in pve situations +133 BB guns are way higher prio
meta =/=prio
waifu = prio
sour oasis
u just need to go to wiki
To be fair, wiki has a stupid ton of math. To this day I don't know what the alpha stat is.
trail temple
Wiki was made by Asians confirmed
sour oasis
But I'm ALEN. I can't read.
trail temple
candid sluice
EN and reading don’t go together
sour oasis
But yeah, alpha damage, dps, I just skim to reload speeds: quantity can beat quality.
radiant brook
Already had one +12 sexy bofor on sandy
@light crystal how are you getting THAT on a t10 position?
light crystal
🤔
sour oasis
Wdym
#pvp message
radiant brook
I mean how is a t4 running a fleet that's a easy win for CV players?
radiant brook
Shouldn't t100 be full of cancer fleets that's impossible to take down in 1 attempt?
thin cosmos
don't think they will use same fleet when attack
sour oasis
No. 15% of top 100 (more like top 500) is just random crap.
royal oyster
most of the time, the top 100 is just full of rushers anyway
radiant brook
I feel cheated with this, given that I meet cancer fleets at rank 1k+
And then someone runs this at t10
sour oasis
You need to pass the bottleneck (that rank 1k to 2k)
That's where all tryhard flexers are
All of them.
light crystal
I mean, about half or so of the match ups I get are already try harding, but I roll them over by using low RNG meta fleet with good equips and Attack bonus
So to me, it doesn't really matter wu they use cuz its all the same lel
thin cosmos
Just raise your fleet specially with gear while complaining. Complaining can't change anything. How can we trust someone who is unlucky every time for long duration for every thing?
sour oasis
Just raise your fleet specially with gear while complaining. Complaining can't c...
Have you met Terminus?
radiant brook
Terminus who?
royal oyster
very few people actually run properly equipped meta defenses. you should eventually be able to beat the poorly geared ones without too much trouble
radiant brook
Is he the sort of guy who had 4/4 meme fleets every time?
thin cosmos
good example is juneau, you can get her at 7-2 with almost no oil
sour oasis
Terminus... Complains.
thin cosmos
Have you met Terminus?
no
radiant brook
@royal oyster I did bump into some discount cancer and had to reset a few times to win because Nagato never stops firing big 7
25 times in a row while resetting in the same fight
uncut agate
when Nagato fires big seven, I just pray that my vanguard doesn't run into it
radiant brook
@sour oasis about that vanguard pic I posted earlier, who should I replace swift with?
radiant brook
You said replace swift eventually, but didn't said who is the replacement
light crystal
The only things I may fear is proper torp meme fleets that run triple HMS torps and 3 black/rainbow dildos. And ofc, early adopters of Wyverns. But so far haven't really ran into any issues.
radiant brook
Oh Sirius, I EN'd
thin cosmos
))))) so you changed your mind about new torpedo)))
sour oasis
You do not have any ships where an immediate substitute would yield more wins.
royal oyster
the only thing to fear in pvp is your list sleeping on you
radiant brook
What about sandy replace swift?
sour oasis
@royal oyster They've yet to rank
sour oasis
What about sandy replace swift?
Is Sandy maxed out and retrofitted?
She's a good tank
radiant brook
Full retro'd, at 101
thin cosmos
beaver+pearl is more important. so he have to farm yorktown after searching where is dropping place for her
radiant brook
And getting her to drop
Grinded Juneau for a few months without any drops
Only to get her from tragicomedy D3
thin cosmos
sandy has 4200 hp only so very fragile specially vs torp and azuma
sour oasis
Or medal exchange
sour oasis
beaver+pearl is more important. so he have to farm yorktown after searching wher...
There's always exchange
uncut agate
I got tonnes of Yorktown in 3-4
radiant brook
So I should start farming Foxes?
Since desire sensor will pick up that I want foxes and will give me everything that's not the foxes
And everything else includes Yorktown/hiryuu
thin cosmos
It's just your chioce. you can wait while give up aotn or try hard to get enough fleet
uncut agate
7-2 would be better for Yorktown, you can get purple plates and 4x ? there
thin cosmos
about pvp it self, I just wonder this is your first mobile game.
most of mobile game has much tougher pvp system.
Even a lot of them are pay to win.
sour oasis
radiant brook
I did play the "PvP" in honkai impact
I quit due to how competitive it is and how important it is to your progress
thin cosmos
yeah I never saw power buff for attacker
So just get in your mind "time needed to be strong". Then peace would come. Or try more hard
more than 300 fight per day is good example of try hard
sour oasis
PvP really shouldn't have rewards. Really too easy to collude.
radiant brook
Or maybe it's just jealousy that seeing others fighting meme fleet at t100 while I'm stuck with 4/4 cancer all the time at rank 1000+
thin cosmos
I can't trust. I believe statistics.
It's more likely you call some weak teams as cancer
radiant brook
No it's really the usual IJN cancer, or variations of it like jda/ykkz/juneau
thin cosmos
jda is good example
she is just counter for akaga and trash other time
shield activated at 10s and has very low hp
radiant brook
Feels weird that she proc holy prayer when my airstrike activates and never any other moments
Even with a gun heavy vanguard that's supposed to bait holy prayer
radiant brook
Reset is useless when it happens all the time
royal oyster
that's not how jda's shield works
radiant brook
Managed to get a win after like 15 resets where she didn't use holy prayer once
candid sluice
Bruh if rng is your problem then resetting is the only solution lol
Every single time you come here to complain it’s always about rng
trail temple
This is a game that rewards insanity, because if you retry, you will eventually win - even if it's 1 hour later
sour oasis
I used to run Ranger. I reset 12 times almost every damn fight.
royal oyster
jda's shield has 0 rng on its uptime
radiant brook
Dosen't that mean you will fall in rank and meet more cancer?
thin cosmos
Feels weird that she proc holy prayer when my airstrike activates and never any ...
that's why I can't trust what you are saying about bad luck
opposite to what is known
candid sluice
If you really want to win you will reset until you do
If not just take the L and move on
candid sluice
Stop
sour oasis
When one person calls you out, they might be fake. When everyone calls you out, you might be fake.
trail temple
fyi leon, jda's shields don't have a % to proc, it will proc
radiant brook
Oh so it's guaranteed to happen, I thought I was just having really horrible luck
trail temple
Not intended to be condescending but, you should check the wiki too
thin cosmos
sheild has really low hp. So how that shield survive 8second? more over it's not on your air strike time
so jda is just a meat.
sour oasis
It doesn't survive, I like the fact when it breaks, she makes the vanguard invincible for 2s.
trail temple
^
sour oasis
Great for reducing cluster damage.
thin cosmos
only for akaga)))
radiant brook
Has PvP reached a point of "if you are new, prioritize it immediately"?
sour oasis
No
sour oasis
only for akaga)))
Actually I've met one or two comps that have rapid fire cluster of CV + BB + torpedo within 6s. It was very much "I need rudder or JdA"
sour oasis
But not mandatory
Unless they want the 100% in their profile.
thin cosmos
Actually I've met one or two comps that have rapid fire cluster of CV + BB + tor...
??? 10s shiel can save you?
light crystal
I member the days I ran Richy/Jeanne comps. Damn, those were the days. Petty fun and reliable lol
I only switched back to IJN when Shinano came along
A couple of months before Stealth dropped too
thin cosmos
suzu is perfect counter for french
trail temple
Unless they want the 100% in their profile.
That doesn't change that it's great for those reasons. That would however change whether one should do it or not though
sour oasis
??? 10s shiel can save you?
In that everything comes at me in 6s, 2s reduces damage by 33%
sour oasis
> Unless they want the 100% in their profile.
That doesn't change that it's grea...
True. But I was more insinuating "you can't discount crazy"
thin cosmos
I can't understand your logic at all
trail temple
thin cosmos
that attack should come in same timing with shield. so tell me what team do so
sour oasis
that attack should come in same timing with shield. so tell me what team do so
The attack takes 6s. So the first attack is partially absorbed by shield, the shield breaks, 2s on invulnerability. Then the remaining 4s damage comes.
thin cosmos
I know that
sour oasis
2s of damage removed from 6s of damage is 33% damage removed from 100%
thin cosmos
important thing is that attack should come in 10s~16s
trail temple
Novo wants a comp I think
thin cosmos
or 30s~36s
sour oasis
I don't remember the defense fleet. It was torpedoes so I assume Noganami Jintsu Noshiro. There was BB and CV, but I don't think it was IJN; maybe Warspite and Centaur?
The attack comes around -0:25s and ends at -0:31s
thin cosmos
so only naganami barrage torp has timed
sour oasis
If I didn't have JdA, my vanguard would be more dead at 4:30
thin cosmos
well the shield do not exist at 25~30)))
sour oasis
It was once, it was niche, but it was scary to see a defense fleet who synchronize their attacks.
thin cosmos
I would say they just were weak
sour oasis
Instead of most cases, most fleets are just have the optimum equipment and will attack in short bursts. A non-stop series of attacks for 6s is frightening.
thin cosmos
well it's just worse
sour oasis
It's easier to see if anyone on my team is alive after a big attack. Harder to see where my vanguard is when the enemy attacks non-stop.
thin cosmos
you will lose more plane hp, can't kill before opponent launch air strike
sour oasis
(This is why Hiryu is my insurance - always an extra 10s to quit)
sour oasis
you will lose more plane hp, can't kill before opponent launch air strike
That makes no sense. Context?
thin cosmos
obvious
sour oasis
Perhaps in Korean, but through a translation, your comment lacks context.
How will I lose plane HP and can't kill faster?
thin cosmos
you think 2cv without delay and with delay would do same?
sour oasis
More simpler please. I am EN.
thin cosmos
just think of time.
sour oasis
Why are we talking about 2 CV?
thin cosmos
how long plane can be attacked
sour oasis
Simpler please.
thin cosmos
we are talking about attacking in short time or long time
so unless they use 2bb 2cv or 3cv
it's just an example
I already tired with why should I explain this obvious thing
sour oasis
I don't know what you're trying to explain.
Are you talking about you or me now?
Are we still talking about JdA and vanguard invincibility?
thin cosmos
Instead of most cases, most fleets are just have the optimum equipment and will attack in short bursts. A non-stop series of attacks for 6s is frightening.
so I can't agree with this at all
sour oasis
My offense fleet is built around periods of invulnerability. If I can see when the defense fleet's burst appears, I can readjust my load out so that window of invincibility coincides with their reload. If a defense fleet is attacking non-stop, I don't have the equipment to overpower them.
I lack direct power and must use ingenuity to win PvP.
So spaced out attacks is almost a hard counter for my navy and equipment pool.
thin cosmos
so how do you count current meta?
sour oasis
RNG
sour oasis
In one test I had nothing to stop a defense fleet so I just used JdA Eldredge and hoped for a lot of invincibility.
thin cosmos
so against 10s invincible how can 6s attack work?
sour oasis
??
thin cosmos
??
sour oasis
Who has 10s invincibility?
thin cosmos
eld
sour oasis
It does not, Eldredge win. (Well assuming everyone else does damage)
thin cosmos
so I hope now you can see what was wrong for you
sour oasis
No I do not.
thin cosmos
ok let's stop.
sour oasis
candid sluice
sour oasis
In the case of Eld, there's no difference if the attack is short or long as long she turns on invincibility
Otherwise it is super annoying hoping it activates rather than 'oh she's dead immediately quit'
light crystal
I've been leveling up my Eldridge to have in possible USN comps. Had half a mind of using with PoW/CV fleets for fun or something. But eh, maybe will have to wait for true Iowa/USN-FS to actually use her. We shall see.
elder crane
Finally found a proper defense to but heads against
Trump boi
Got in 7 runs I think before I accidentally killed him
Straight up sniped Nano twice, Nagato and Hiryuu each once lol
Overall seems like I beat out his main ez but the problem is like almost half the time his vanguard win and I have to awkwardly rely on Nanoyuu to kill a low HP ykkz or Azuma lol...
I think given it seems Hiryuu v Hiryuu for torpmemes offense is not really a concern, I'll swap to dmg loadout on Hiryuu instead
Also considering changing up vanguard a bit too since it seems dmg isn't really the issue on offense
radiant brook
Against hiryuu, is it wise to put monarch on the same lane as her so when her barrage procs it will take a chunk out of hiryuu's health?
elder crane
Can be
Hiryuu final counter can be mitigated a lot by having it hit your vanguard instead of main
radiant brook
If stealth wasn't a thing I would be using way lot more
sour oasis
Against hiryuu, is it wise to put monarch on the same lane as her so when her ba...
Normally not a bad idea, but when you kill Juneau and her Martyr recovers the amount you blasted away...
elder crane
Ideal would be final counter after your vanguard is in their face, but while both vanguard up is usually kinda fine too
radiant brook
It was to force final counter to happen early
elder crane
Normally not a bad idea, but when you kill Juneau and her Martyr recovers the am...
Well doesn't matter where he aimes then I guess?
radiant brook
With discount cancer I could kill Juneau right as monarch fires
elder crane
It was to force final counter to happen early
If otherwise Final counter comes in after vanguard is dead, then ye
sour oasis
Well doesn't matter where he aimes then I guess?
They also lack Juneau, Elite repair, and general VG damage
thin cosmos
Finally found a proper defense to but heads against
Trump boi
Got in 7 runs I th...
any retreat?
elder crane
Ye 2 losses
One each to Azuma/ykkz slowly killing off Nano/Hiryuu at end
Azuma one was hilarious, he had like no HP but Hiryuu just kept missing
But his movement rng meant he didn't shoot main guns, only secondary, so took forever lol
thin cosmos
the win rate is quite same as I expected
as I think it can't be a meta.
there are some portion of it's performance due to it's nicheness
most people do not use flag+bulge now
elder crane
Nah that doesn't really matter
thin cosmos
nope can be matter
elder crane
I'm heavily overkilling Manjuu Jun if I hit that, or smacking main
Bulge or flag doesn't help
Also this is just +10 torps
Dmg output will not be an issue
thin cosmos
you just focus on main
elder crane
And it's not optimized that well so far imo
thin cosmos
VG can kill your CVs if they preserve more hp
elder crane
Nah if torps land they will be murdered regardless really
Tested vs a no Manjuu Jun team with bulge on lead ship+Noshiro and Amagi debuff active
Still murdered their vanguard anyways if torps hit
thin cosmos
think about the situation like your screenshot
thin cosmos
yeah but only 1shot
it's not that weak for can be killed in 1 air strike
so near 30s, your VG gone, his hiryuu only left, 2VG at front of your 2 full hp CVs
thin cosmos
and the half is problem!