pvp

[storm jewel]

like literally this guy last night

[delicate egret]

end of season when you're just tired of pvp and want to sleep

[tough dirge]

my counter ijn is on the grind. nearly there 115>120

[storm jewel]

nothing special, and almost killed me 2 times in a row i was like dafug

[tough dirge]

damn I cant even beat them when theres shinano instead of amagi, what do you use?

[storm jewel]

i torp meme him cuz rushing

then switch mirroring

still almost dead

then reset for third time

[tough dirge]

[storm jewel]

[delicate egret]

want noshiron on amagi server when

[crude mortar]

all the comp nowaday very easy to win,if you cant get 80%++ winrate after free pvp gear update,then your fleet certainly had issue

[storm jewel]

certainly this guy belongs to the 5%

[delicate egret]

[crude mortar]

[knotty raft]

you pvp on amagi server a lot Sandstrom?

what's that look like these days

[delicate egret]

lol I touch pvp like once a season

[humble geyser]

lvling my torp fleet rn for ultimate memes

[delicate egret]

just come here for the salt

[crude mortar]

exactly why im here

[knotty raft]

aw. It was funny the first month

but then I got a job again

[crude mortar]

cuz all top pvper left this channel and go to other private discord

[delicate egret]

I swear half the people sandbagging must be unemployed or have really flexible schedule

[storm jewel]

[delicate egret]

idk where people find the time

[crude mortar]

and people left here just giving false information and gear suggession to each other

IDK

[knotty raft]

Eh, my lunch break at work is flexible so I can take the half hour before off reliably

[hollow dawn]

@crude mortar was I not clear or smth?

[knotty raft]

it's not that absurd really

or if we're slow it's doable too

[crude mortar]

@hollow dawn you assuming people here giving correct information? scroll up and read all of it so I should just sit here and let them giving false gear sugguestion to each other?
im just pointing it out

[delicate egret]

https://tenor.com/view/yikes-monkey-look-and-leave-yikes-monkey-look-and-leave-gif-14895670

[hollow dawn]

if you want to "just point it out" - you can do it like a normal person instead of provoking others

[crude mortar]

what did I do to provoke

[knotty raft]

[hollow dawn]

scroll up and read

[crude mortar]

im saying after washington treathy update and pvp gear update,if your fleet cannot winning 80% then your fleet had an issue

you taking this as provoking?

ok

[elder crane]

Currently top two contenders are either drop Hiryuu or drop Amagi
Nagato+Shinano is staple now

[late heath]

I think the issue is that you tried to meme too hard whenever someone asked a question instead of just response like a normal person and some people isn’t amused by that

[storm jewel]

sad my manju juneau main tank is wrong suggestion

[delicate egret]

hey man I liked that one

[knotty raft]

if they don't already "get it" they won't ever "get it." But yeah, I ask a question because I want an answer, not a bunch of meme gifs taking the piss on me for being out of date or whatever.

[crude mortar]

[knotty raft]

Never had issues with any comp prior and I think this is my first time running into this specific one and I can't get over it with something that's worked for everything else. Genuinely confused. That's all.

[crude mortar]

you know what

the way you gear your ship

is telling us you didn't had alot of experience in pvp

[delicate egret]

see you wonder "what did I do to provoke"

its about word choice

[crude mortar]

im saying the truth

there is 0 reason to run white shell on both monarch and warspite

and there is also no reason not to run beaver on flag vs nagato o

[delicate egret]

sure, but you can find a way to say that which doesnt tilt people

[crude mortar]

also average speed of that fleet vg is lower than acceptable rate

[frail orbit]

Actually he's just being salty on pvp B word ban
But yeah. Honestly, only reason why u put white shell is for hit stat, and it's only for Wakai

[crude mortar]

not enough boiler

[frail orbit]

And average VG speed should be at 40

Fast enuff to evade shit

And not too fragile

[crude mortar]

yoon and blue only 2 left savior of pvp channel

[frail orbit]

Erika, if u got some shit on it
Just vent it on our server, not here

[crude mortar]

my bad

[knotty raft]

Is that excluding Badge? my average is way over that

[frail orbit]

@knotty raft also yata, u might be new, so pardon for that 🙏
In PVP, it's not really a matter of dmg, it's practically just convenience n survivability for PVP

And yeah, excluding badge

U want faster btw
But a base of 40 speed average is enuff

[knotty raft]

I'm not new really either. I've topped PVP plenty before, which is why I genuinely need help here because it's very atypical for me to not be able to deal with something.

[crude mortar]

what server

[knotty raft]

jesus

[tough dirge]

@fast ember i choose this

[delicate egret]

img dump much

[tough dirge]

My bad

[knotty raft]

why wouldn't you want hit on Monarch?

@ yoon

[crude mortar]

you equip hit on monarch mid

you die to nagato

very simple

go try double evasion mid vs nagato

[frail orbit]

Should be him using WNT then
Or Frontier medal

And honestly with Monarch, u want hit ofc, but u want evasion also, and since she wants flag then u are practically at Nagato focus

Whether eva or hit, which one should be sacrificed?

For me

It's hit

[crude mortar]

enemy nagato most of the time if they are smart they gonna run double evasion and they cant hit enemy with double evasion

[frail orbit]

She got enuff hit anyway for a BB

[crude mortar]

and if they dont run double evasion they die to warspite

[knotty raft]

it's never really caused problems vs. nagato before but I can consider rudder in future cases, sure

[crude mortar]

ez

[frail orbit]

And in case u havent known

Monarch is nowadays just a PR option that's not even that worth for PVP

Sorry to say this

She's still gud ofc for her shelling

[knotty raft]

that's fine, it's just what I have leveled rn

[crude mortar]

its usable cuz treathy

[frail orbit]

But remember that shelling dmg is derp

[knotty raft]

until I get more IJN for a Nagato backline up

[frail orbit]

For PVP

[crude mortar]

any weak fleet can just beat strong fleet cuz the treaty

[knotty raft]

or would like, 105 Amagi 110 Shinano 118 Nagato still be preferable to full 120 of what I have now

[crude mortar]

-20 defend fleet -20% bb +15%

-20% -35%

[frail orbit]

And her barrage is always aimed at the backline which kills the need for slow

[knotty raft]

that all makes sense

[frail orbit]

Practically, that's old meme tho

[crude mortar]

still up to date tho

or not

[knotty raft]

or even just swapping Nagato in for Monarch? is that fine?

[crude mortar]

why nagato without ijn ship

[frail orbit]

^

[crude mortar]

just go centaur

[knotty raft]

don't ^ a message I can't read 🙂

[crude mortar]

become hooloovoo2

hes reading dont worry

[frail orbit]

If I were u, I won't even use Nugget

And only reason to use Nugget nowadays

Is as a stat stick

For Hiryuu n Shina

[storm jewel]

what is the deal with this wnt, i still dont get how good is it if it decrease the damage from both side

something w additive or multiplicative but my brain is too pepega for it

[crude mortar]

its stupid gear

BB had -20% dmg penalty

it become -35%

[storm jewel]

[crude mortar]

and enemy -35% but they had 20% defend penalty

it deal like no dmg

[storm jewel]

35%+20% ?

or 100 -35% then another -20%

[crude mortar]

20% of 65

65800.01

65 * 80 * 0.01

they gonna do shit damage

only fire damage not reduced

[storm jewel]

ah finally i understand it

[storm jewel]

thats a long essay rendar

[crude mortar]

[elder crane]

WNT is amazing/modifies meta because:

1. 20 evasion 30 Hit is amazing stats on any main fleet ship, if this was all it did you'd want 2 on every main fleet ship (well, you need to fit on some other stuff but you get the idea)
2. lower dmg on everyone means matches take longer, which means more time for RNG to even out. Offense is expected to win on avg so less RNG = better
3. lower dmg especially nerfs anything that tries to take a major advantage with early burst dmg, e.g. torpteams and warkai. Torpteams especially since that's annoyingly RNG for the offense team.
4. Ships with additive dmg buffs are hurt less. Most main fleet loses ~20% of dmg output, but Nagato boosted CV only loses 15%. Some offmeta option ate better too but seems like not enough to matter (e.g lucky E enterprise only loses ~8% of dmg and on avg only 10%)
5. Certain teams, notably anything with multiple CVs, has an issue that they take too long to do anything. Matches were sometimes decided by 20 s before standard CVs even launch, and when I ran Nagato Hiryuu Shinano before WNT, vs meta setups, half the time Shinano didn't even hit her second launch before match is over. WNT stall things out longer - Now, Shinano second strike almost always matters

FC probably benefits a bunch too, similar issues with second launch being strong but sometimes too late

[storm jewel]

ahh very informative, thank you man.
what is FC?

[elder crane]

Formidable+Centaur

[frail orbit]

🐌 me

[storm jewel]

play too late for formi

[elder crane]

Also it's a slight boost to non-frontloaded dmg vanguards since they lose 15% dmg (or less) rather than 20%
Aka basically Azuma

Hey, Azuma has a dmg boost skill too doesn't she

I think that's additive stacking too

[frail orbit]

PvP went slow again, keks

[storm jewel]

what skills is that

[elder crane]

The one that gives dmg boost based on how far enemy is

[storm jewel]

oh right

[elder crane]

If equipped with a high caliber Main Gun (280mm or more): increases damage dealt with Main Gun by up to 15% (25%) depending on the distance the shells travel. Also increases Burn damage dealt to enemies by 20% (50%).

I'm pretty sure that's additive based on similarly worded skills
Sadly anything that boosts the dmg of a particular ammo type is multiplicative instead of additive (e.g. sanrui)

I think Richi HE skill maybe is 🍝 and uses the standard dmg boost instead of ammo type dmg boost

Compare

Increases own HE damage dealt by 15% (35%)

And

When equipped with a high-explosive main gun, increase main gun damage dealt by 4.5% (12%).

Though ofc the actual decider is what the code says, not the desc

[storm jewel]

avg players like me can go understand up to before azuma part

should have taken cal more serious

[elder crane]

Basically Azuma loses 12-15% of gun dmg depending on distance
Instead of the 15% vanguard usually loses
And the 20% main usually loses

[storm jewel]

i went to sleep yesterday 1 hour before season ended, with like 60 points behind 2600, top 10

"damn i think I can eos top 10 this time, even missed 1 attack, all good"

woke up to phoenixF 2597

"oh i didnt make it top 10 then"

[royal oyster]

2540 might be top 10 in the op siren release week season

[coral wren]

200 points now, 6/10

[trail temple]

@storm jewel

I didn't do this

[storm jewel]

im in sandy

[trail temple]

Mb

(We got eos ladders for all servers - Rumia does avrora so no need for doubling up there)

[sacred heath]

might as well post them all

or at least washington for me 😄

[storm jewel]

16

Pog

i assume this is from azurlane meta discord?

[trail temple]

Ye

[candid sluice]

Is there one for amagi

[trail temple]

All in ALM discord, yes

I will do something up later

[solemn comet]

is nagato/amagi/shinano good or is it outclassed by nagato/shinano/hiryuu? i noticed lots of people using the 2nd one more and more

i just slap the wnt on nagato, my line of thinking was stacking debuffs

[frail orbit]

WNT exists

And evasion is just a matter of rudder or not in practice

[solemn comet]

so that made amagi obsolete?

[frail orbit]

For def, nope

For attack ye

[candid sluice]

What channel is it in?

[solemn comet]

i usually do the same fleets in both attack and defense, too lazy to mess with it

[frail orbit]

If u wanna use Amagi on def

Needs to be on flag

And need FDG Shinano wall

Namashi nevertheless still useful

But less coverage for heavy dmg
And then WNT exists

[elder crane]

At least from fighting them, doesn't really feel like that much diff tbh
But Shinanoyuu should make for faster matches, I assume

Idk about how either is vs 3 BB teams though
Shinanoyuu just murders them at least

[sacred heath]

@candid sluice i couldn't find it either

[elder crane]

Anyways overall Amagi debuff/buff is weaker vs IJN CV setup
Crash dmg bypasses evasion and the avi buffs make her stat debuff less effective

Since additive stacking

[frail orbit]

^

At least one of my wife is still useful anyways

[elder crane]

That's why, as I predicted, Nagato is much preferred over Amagi if running just one

The Wife is more effective than ever, it feels like

And the lil devil is back

RIP Noshiro(?)

[light crystal]

Getting hit by Hiryuu/Shin 818 is really bad. Your VG practically disappears. I've managed to counter it by running 818 on Hiryuu, and Cuda/Ryu on Shinano.

[elder crane]

It's not really that bad for stall

Jun ykkz azuma

[frail orbit]

And the lil devil is back
Lil devil who

[elder crane]

Ykkz

[frail orbit]

Oh

[light crystal]

U put YKKZ middle?

[elder crane]

In PvP she's a lil shit

Yeah better dodges stuff
And takes less vanguard gunfire

[frail orbit]

But but destealth mechanism we discussed on the other sv tho

[light crystal]

🤔

Maybe I should do that

[frail orbit]

Sankai saikou lah

[light crystal]

Running Boiler/550HP on my YKKZ lmao

[elder crane]

I'm back to boiler/FE

With fires more dangerous than ever

[light crystal]

I've dropped double boiler, or boiler/FE, and gone full HP, so 550 HP Aux and 1 boiler

[elder crane]

At least I think so, maybe I'm actually double boiler her

[light crystal]

I dropped double boiler cuz she died before Juneau healed her lol

[elder crane]

Ykkz in rear did noticably worse yea

[light crystal]

Now with the added HP pad, it increases the chances she gets healed by Juneau instead

[elder crane]

Azuma seems to not care too much

[frail orbit]

At least I think so, maybe I'm actually double boiler her
Not this accursed 2boiler strat again

Not this fuckin shit again

[elder crane]

2 boiler on def for sure

[frail orbit]

[elder crane]

[light crystal]

I never switch gears for Def/Att, I mirror Attack and Def.

[elder crane]

But yeah, offense, 2 boiler more RNG than worth, probably

[trail temple]

I might try hiryuu this season

[frail orbit]

At least am already going out from my 2ryusei phase on FC anyways

Just bkoz it's derp

[light crystal]

Anyway, I dont think my YKKZ takes too much fire DMG. Now is just mostly taking dmg from CV's instead

[frail orbit]

I'd also much preferred crash dmg build on Nugget Shiryu if not for Nugget being used as stat stick and not for her barrage

[light crystal]

Are you sure middle YKKZ is best? Ideally, you want Azuma to die first, cuz mobile YKKZ last is really good, cuz she zips by anywhere, can fully tank CV's then lol

[frail orbit]

Koz lel 40%

[elder crane]

I might try that actually
Maybe move pearl over from jun, I was wanting to stick a boiler on somewhere somehow

Again rear ykkz dies earlier

While Azuma seems to not care much somehow

[frail orbit]

Are you sure middle YKKZ is best? Ideally, you want Azuma to die first, cuz mobile YKKZ last is really good, cuz she zips by anywhere, can fully tank CV's then lol
Then again u want all sans Jun to survive

And for Jun

Damcon exists

[elder crane]

Without Pearl on Jun maybe I'll try dropping semaphore

I suppose I'll move Badge over to Nagato?

[frail orbit]

But why putting semaphore in the 1st place

[elder crane]

Or should I SG or HPFCR

[frail orbit]

WNT enuff lah

[solemn comet]

what's semaphone?

[light crystal]

I've had this one game where EVERYONE died, and it was just my 50% HP YKKZ and an enemy Shinano at 1-2/5 HP left. Her airstrikes could not hit YKKZ cuz she zipped across the map, and she managed to chip away Shinano at the end. Sure took a while, but it showed me how a healthy YKKZ cannot die to CV airstrikes if she's the last one alive.

[elder crane]

You'd have to have bad RNG for that yea

Shinano barrage is also too derp to hit stuff up close

[frail orbit]

This

PVE experiences taught me the hard way about it smh
Also why on semaphore tho Ren

[light crystal]

Is OS introducing any new useable Aux for PvP VG? Like a true gold Boiler or something?

[frail orbit]

When it's only like what

6s

Besides

Torpmemes already died anyway

With WNT

Is OS introducing any new useable Aux for PvP VG? Like a true gold Boiler or something?
Naa

[light crystal]

Torpmeme died because of WNT + Manjuu.

The combo is insane.

Against torp memes

[frail orbit]

Ye

Juneau Christ resurrection

Even makes some stupid unoathed Jun survived smh

[elder crane]

Semaphore stops instant torpsnipe on Jun since I'm not bulge or Noshiro

Otherwise WNT by itself isn't enough

Well, unless she eats every torp, which is a good thing anyways

Semaphore dmg transfer in that case gets healed back anyways

+pearl means the delay on heal is welcome

[sacred heath]

did we ever figure out which pvp aux takes priority if each side has one?

[light crystal]

This is my current setup. REALLY hesitant to move YKKZ middle, but I guess I can try and check it out and see how I like it.

[elder crane]

Both activate pretty sure

You just can't use both on same fleet is all, pretty sure

[sacred heath]

gotcha

[light crystal]

My current setup is Jun(Manju/Pearl), Azuma(Gyro/Heels), YKKZ (550HP/Boiler). Average Speed 40. WNT/Rudder on Nagato, Rudder/Beaver/Beacon(2x) on CV's.

[trail temple]

Both activate pretty sure
From what I have seen, that appears to be the case

[elder crane]

I'm actually running ghetto SGs on my CV
All three of them
Then +badge on Hiryuu

[trail temple]

Actually, with double cv setup, should we use 457 on nagato or stick to fdg gun?

[light crystal]

Im using 457 on Nagato lol

[elder crane]

With WNT, use HE for sure

[light crystal]

For Fires?

[elder crane]

Still waiting on stealth so I can break out the mics

With WNT Nagato is not always going to have a clear shot on main with 457, and ofc fire dmg is not nerfed, yeah

[sacred heath]

any comments for a budding tryhard? i was using namakai or namano last season; mixing it up with a 818 hiryuu this time.

auxes are kinda i think

got aotn last season but want to reduce resets

[elder crane]

You want seattlegun if you can spare it for Nagato
Also run mag torps

[sacred heath]

use magtorps instead of black torp + 610?

[elder crane]

That's just for initial nuking

[light crystal]

My beautiful 14.6k Power. Oh well. But yeah, FDG gun is probably better than 457 lol

[elder crane]

Mags still better if you plan on seeing second launch and doesn't take up a valuable aux slot

[sacred heath]

fair. then what to replace black torp?

[trail temple]

Don't forget your beaver badge either

[hot creek]

I stopped using WNT after awhile. Just doesnt feel like it helps the Nagato/Hiryuu/Shinano fleet at all. I mean, the point of the comp is to obliterate enemy VG at airstrike launch and nerfing your damage is yikes, sometimes enemy Juneau survives too long and that 15% makes a difference, not to mention matches take longer. I don't have survivability issues without WNT in the first place so there's just no benefit. Shinano doesn't need to survive long enough for a second airstrike if you've defeated enemy VG quickly enough, which WNT makes harder to do.

[sacred heath]

guess i could replace cosmic kicks with beaver

[elder crane]

Catapult on CV is yabai

[light crystal]

Imo, running a Beacon is imperative on your CV's, you wanna make sure you win the duel before enemy does 🤔

[sacred heath]

yeah, i'm saving for another bacon and avgas.

[elder crane]

Travel time means it's only critical on Hiryuu

You want +evasion for sure though

[sacred heath]

i'm trying to find a balance between pvp and pve equips so i don't have to swap so much

[elder crane]

Shinano not making it to launch 2 does pretty dissappointing dmg tbh

You don't really get a strong advantage from her without WNT

Also you should probably run it anyways on side

+20 eva +30 hit is very good

[light crystal]

I'm running WNT/Rudder on Nagato cuz 20 Eva is nice, but it's not 35/40 Eva, and besides, you want her to stay alive for as long as possible, you dont really need her to hit crap anyway (Besides, self-buff on Accuracy is already good enough).

Also Phoenix, u probably need to build around WNT, regardless if u use it or not urself, cuz it's a popular item anyway, so chances are ur gonna be under teh effect anyway

[elder crane]

The only time you won't be for meta fleet is vs torpmemes

And that's a bit yikes tbh

[hot creek]

Shinano's damage doesn't matter at that point. Shinano has done her job even with one airstrike as long as enemy VG gets sunk. Hiryuu will cleanup the rest of the enemy backline assuming she still had Final Counter up, and in this case she usually does, since Shinano being focused means Hiryuu wasn't.

[elder crane]

Torpmemes run Hiryuu themselves... lol

It gets very yabai if they chunk your Hiryuu even with just 1 torp, cause it means yours almost always will proc first in that case

[storm jewel]

u run ryuusei on your cvs ?

[light crystal]

Can u imagine if they made it so that WNT/FM could be used on same ship? Would effectively see BB's never being used again in PvP, besides meme use. Triple CV meta all the time baby. I guess they saw the danger and we dodged a bullet there ♿

[hot creek]

torp meme is still torp meme, either you have to retreat at start or dont and win. Enemy torp meme Hiryuu isn't a problem since your VG will be up. Its only a problem sometimes if after you wiped enemy VG and your VG comes eats a Nagato barrage to the face.

[light crystal]

I only run 1 Ryusei, on Shinano's third slot. Then I run Cuda on first slot, and 818 on Hiryuu.

[hot creek]

what is there to "build around WNT" anyways lol? It's not like I ever used torp meme for offense fleet in the first place, which is what it hurts the most.

[light crystal]

I'm wondering wut's the best Fighter for Hiryuu tho. Using Sea Hornet cuz of the surface dmg, but I'm wondering if I should try a different fighter for better anti-plane interception instead

Kawanishi has some hefty AA Burst 🤔

[radiant brook]

Is the pvp tier list that was pinned still relevant currently?

[hot creek]

yeah, mostly. its just missing Shinano comps

and LOL why is WS/Amagi/FDG T0 while Nagato/Amagi/Hiryuu is T1

I can tell yall right now, WS/Amagi/FDG, even with double 457's is good but not that great. Certainly not a whole tier better than generic IJN comp. I think yall really overrating FDG here.

[snow snow]

[storm jewel]

T0 is wrong
the best BB in da game, must be T-ex

[candid sluice]

Is there a list of rushers on each server

My first three matchups were not moving at all

[sacred heath]

the list of rushers is the top of the ladder for the first 10 days

[candid sluice]

Guess I’ll have to make my own list

[sour oasis]

Crowd source lists exist, but they tend not to have enough contributors

[candid sluice]

Avgas or beacon on sleepfox?

[cursive leaf]

should i get serious about sandbagging and tracking my points with the spreadsheet etc if all i want to do is make it to Admiral, maybe Fleet Admiral?

[royal oyster]

lol no

[cursive leaf]

oki, sounds good. I know i'm not good enough to hold AOTN, maybe in a few more months as far as ships and gear. but i just wanna get as high as i can to get the bonus merit points in my mail box

thank you, btw.

[royal oyster]

the trick to ranking is to not lose or forget to do your attempts

[cursive leaf]

understandable

i'll just keep rushing to try to climb as high as possible as well as doing my part as a stepping stone to those that actually have a shot at AOTN

is Amagi a hotly contested PVP server?

[proper sorrel]

no

you can be top 100 if you just use all your attacks and barely sandbag

though trying to get into top 10 is another story

[cursive leaf]

I got #1 rank once like 2 days into the new season, lol. of course it didn't last but it was funny to see.

[royal oyster]

in no server does it take more than like 25 bonus points in order to have enough score to rush aotn

and it's not hard to incidentally get that over 2 weeks

[cursive leaf]

I watched the youtube video for advanced pvp that goes over sandbagging, and i still don't really understand it. You wait for your opponents to finish their matches so you can get the bonus points for defeating them, correct?

But, then after you defeat that one person, the next set of 4 opponents will probably be more around your rank so no bonus points? I'm not sure how this works.

[royal oyster]

I've been the top score eos on my server for the last 3 months. but what do i know

[cursive leaf]

sorry, i feel bad for asking. i don't want anyone to fight here.

[meager valley]

You can do it with no bonus points and 1 or 2 losses on a few on them I hear. I got AoTN with 5 losses on Avrora and light sandbagging the first time I went for AoTN.
I consistently do it with 2-3 loses and light sandbagging cause I keep on forgetting to do my exercises lol

AoTN is really easy

[mint hornet]

After you beat the person you'd wait until the new set move again.

Each new set has people that have various amounts of tickets left, so although at the initial moment you're the same rank eventually they'll move (hopefully). Over the course of the season you'll continue to earn bonus points just at slower and lower rates because people can't give you as much of a bonus. Since you're sandbagging

Do all of your attempts to reach 5/10 before the reset ends, and rush at the beginning of the reset (second saturday/sunday) once you're over 2200 points and you can make AotN

you can miss like 5-10 depending on how hard you sandbag and make aotn on avrora

[meager valley]

Its Friday 2PM or 8PM for EST if that helps

We must be in really different time zones

[mint hornet]

just don't lose and don't forget to do your attempts and you'll be good to go

[cursive leaf]

ahh okay, thank you for the detailed write up. Just making sure I understand correctly, so i just do exercises throughout the day finishing one then waiting for some opponents to move in my new "bracket" right? Instead of what I do now which is doing all 5 of them at once after I wait for the "first" opponent to move in rank.

[mint hornet]

correct, you do 1 battle each time someone on your list moves

[cursive leaf]

okay, thank you so much! I think that clears up a lot for me.

[meager valley]

Also I reccomend going between 0-5 instead of 5-10 if you're not going for top 100 EOS. The bonus points aren't that much worse and it's a lot harder to mess up.

[candid sluice]

If you’re playing on amagi just sandbag first week, you can rush all of second week and you’ll still hit aotn eventually

[cursive leaf]

i was actually considering doing that this season going from 0-5. i tried waiting 5-10 and i ended up missing like 5 exercises. yikes.

[mint hornet]

yea if you naturally sleep through one of the 6 hour resets you can just go all the way down to 0/10
but otherwise stay at 5/10 at the lowest imo

since the more tickets you use, the less people you match up with that can give you bonus/haven't yet moved

[cursive leaf]

ah that's fair. also, yeah @ SaltyArrow, I am on Amagi.

[candid sluice]

Yee tbh amagi isn’t too bad when it comes to its pvp, as long as you know what you’re doing

First week sandbag and second rush is probably your best bet for reaching aotn

And of course adjust your exercises based on your sleep schedule too, don’t want to be sleeping on a whole reset

(Even then you can still get aotn like I did lol)

[cursive leaf]

yeah, this one killed me a couple times before. sleeping through two resets on accident.

i kinda already messed up by rushing earlier before this conversation, but i'll try the sandbag method that CZ Delta kindly wrote out for me. and I'll try to make you all proud lol.

[meager valley]

[candid sluice]

Lol don’t sweat it this is a waifu collecting game not a competitive esports game

[light crystal]

Trying to be sneaky eh, wonder how effective it'd be tho

Azuma users should be unfazed, it's the main issue. Noshiro users could be in a pickle, however.

[solemn comet]

is double 818 on shinano good or do you even just want 1 in her kit?

[candid sluice]

I think only one is necessary

[storm jewel]

okay sandy-er pls rush all your attacks and go sleep

[trail temple]

#rushgang

[snow snow]

ok

I'll do all 10

just for u bb

[candid sluice]

Being stuck with players who don’t move is like being stuck behind a group of people walking slowly in a hallway

[sacred heath]

if everyone sandbags, no one sandbags

[trail temple]

Rework pvp points plz k thx bye

[candid sluice]

Since when did lvl 50s and 60s sandbagged

[sacred heath]

really annoying how it brings up the monthly login screen every time starting 1h before reset

[trail temple]

Since when did lvl 50s and 60s sandbagged
They just lose, they don't sandbag

[candid sluice]

How are they losing to mutsuki

[light crystal]

Should I run Sextuple Bofors on Juneau? Currently running STAAG, cuz of Hit. But since she has high AA, why not make some use of it with Sextuples, as she's guaranteed to actually be around for enemy first strike (Due to Manjuu and WNT), and she could help with the AA a bit 🤔

You know, fuck it, Imma do it

[candid sluice]

Does AA even matter

[light crystal]

Well, why not. Maybe an extra plane or two downed can make a difference

[meager valley]

AA doesn't matter too much as long as its gold

You need the 45 AA boost for survivability on IJN ships

Juneau can actually shoot stuff so theres no reason not to give her a sexy bofors but shes really the only PvP ship like that

[frail orbit]

laughs in scenario if stealth mechanism got implemented

[meager valley]

[candid sluice]

My god these people still haven’t moved

Would it be better to drop to 0/10 just to be with the other rushers? That way they’re guaranteed to move?

[meager valley]

sandbags
complains about sandbaggers

[keen obsidian]

fuk forgot to do my fights again...imma just not gonna play the keep 10 fight at all times game

[candid sluice]

Since when did level 50s and 60s sandbag my guy

This is amagi server

[upper cove]

Since amagi is the new server

The level 50/60s are probably alts tbh

[snow snow]

can confirm

[royal oyster]

if you want braindead bonus points, push to 0 and then skip a reset. you'll never top rank end of season that way but you're less likely to fail by wasting attempts and aotn is pretty easy regardless

[candid sluice]

I honestly think most of the sandbagging comes from week 2 lol

Week 1 I only see people move when I go to sleep and wake up the next day

[slender atlas]

just push to 0, u can get 2k2 point and top10 when season almost end, no need bonus point

[light crystal]

Reliable Assuma.

[sudden talon]

is nagato/amagi/warkai still better than nagato/amagi/shinano?

[trail temple]

[elder crane]

Never was better, probably now noticably worse

[sudden talon]

oh okay i'll switch to shinano then

[storm jewel]

how come ?

i thought with warkai you still consistently snipe everyone and secure win faster/safer

[elder crane]

WNT favours the stronger long-term output of Shinano, and means she always hits her second launch when it still matters

Just warkai by herself only barely focused hard enough for a fairly early kill before WNT, now it's

[meager valley]

Shinano/Warkai/Amagi

It's so much better than those nagato comps

Every time I use Nagato/Amagi/Shinano I end up switching back cause it's kind of shit

Put swordfish/barracuda on Shinano. She combos well with Warkai/Amagi and gurentees a kill vs every ship with eva gear besides Shinano or FDG with the Amagi buff.

Wait I shouldn't decrease my chances of winning

[storm jewel]

u are expecting dudes on sandy to use wnt on defend ?

last 2 weeks i didnt event see 1 manju juneau

[sudden talon]

wnt?

[storm jewel]

washington naval treaty

[sudden talon]

oh ty

[light crystal]

I use Nagato/Shinano/Hiryuu. U lose out on DPS if u try to shoehorn in Amagi imo

Plus, she has poor AA, so in a prolonged CV battle, she's gonna drag the team behind lol

[meager valley]

I'm leveling Hiryuu to try that rn

[light crystal]

Shinano does better with Hiryu

[sudden talon]

I haven't versed that comp yet looks interesting

[meager valley]

Of course shinano outdanages hiryuu

Oh with Hiryuu

[light crystal]

Shinano/Hiryuu/Nagato comps are becoming more prominent nowadays tbh https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516951413411020819/785715023523086346/unknown.png

And Hiryuu can outdamage Shinano. It depends on how and when Last Counter procs, and how many strikes Shinano gets, since Hiryuu launches first, she will tend to outfarm Shinano

[meager valley]

Yeah, luckily they're pretty trash so far. It's too easy to kill Shinano before her second airstrike.

Shinano melts without amagi

[sudden talon]

^ thats what I was thinking, usually my amagi and warspite kills one of the side ships before they get off their 2nd attack

[meager valley]

People probably use bad equips or something tbh

[light crystal]

Nr, I haven't had issues with Shinao dying first. If I see WK, I just have Hiryuu tank her WK, and EZ win

Hiryuu tanking WK means u getting 2 strikes in thanks to WNT and Juneau living long enough thanks to Manjuu to provide a good timed heal

[meager valley]

Yes, but on offense I get to choose who to snipe

[light crystal]

WNT and Manjuu Juneau really neuter WK

[meager valley]

Typo

Smh

[light crystal]

I stopped using WK after more than a year of using WK, cuz I started to have difficulties dealing against the comp

And we may or may not have the CV Stealth thing hit Exercise. if right now the Nag/Shin/Hiryu comp is preferred, the Stealth thing will render WK useless

[meager valley]

Yeah

I have this https://youtu.be/qj-MaDgyS6w
Last one was too close to prove my point but that was literally the worst possible RNG

Oh wait that's wrong

Nvm

This just shows how right you are that amagi is worse than Hiryuu lol

[candid sluice]

What aux are yall using for shinano?

[light crystal]

Rudder/Beacon

@elder crane U know, u keep saying Ashen Hiryuu is too squishy. I think that's gonna be irrelevant if the Stealth mechanic hits. I'd want to say that more DPS is better at that point cuz u dont have to worry about BB's for the most part. Main issue for Ashen Hiryuu would be not getting buffed by Nagato/Shinano tho

Would be cool if Ashen ships could get the nation buffs if applicable as well

[candid sluice]

Is avgas not worth using on her?

[storm jewel]

he only use barracuda slot 1, ryuusei slot 3 so not worth it

[candid sluice]

If I use double cuda would it be worth then?

[storm jewel]

personally i think double cuda worth with avigas if shinano launch right under 1 sec after hiryuu

cuz i think 🤔 maybe need that aa bait from hiryuu fighters ahead of cuda

but idk

[storm jewel]

man this Yukice guy on Sandy, his torp meme is something

WNT+Manju juneau and it still hurts so much

[trail temple]

Chuck nelson flag and see what happens

[storm jewel]

I dont have it

wait the fug im recording and not pay attention and lost to him

shieeeet

damage just from torp, backline gone so fast and didnt even notice few seconds later hiryuu proc her final counter (then got healed back but w/e)

[trail temple]

@elder crane what's your take on plane loadouts for Shinano when paired with hiryuu? Double ryuu, ryuu and cuda or something else?

[elder crane]

I'm still a fan of Ryuus on Hiryuu, but 818 on her is a thing too
Shinano shouldn't run Ryuus, it's overkill given her already high strike dmg and ryuus in barrage. Plus more of her dmg is when vanguard is still up. I'd run Cudas in her TB slot, then you can make any sort of argument about the rest you want basically, especially slot 1
I'd run something with bombs there if you run 818 Hiryuu though, probably

[sacred heath]

My 818 hiryuu + cuda/hd/ryu shinano has been doing well, but it might be overkill as you say. I'm still playing around.

But it's common for hiryuu to mvp with this setup

[light crystal]

It's been working for me. I like seeing the backline go from near full to dead in one Shinano airstrike

[midnight heron]

idk how 818 is useful tbh ive tried it a few times and most of the torps just launch behind enemy vg making them worthless

its useful on def for sure

just another problem of the lopsided battle line in pvp

[trail temple]

Instead of your BB shells missing your backline, it's torps missing the vg

[trail temple]

Atm I'm taking 818 on hiryuu and running ryuusei in slot 1 and cuda in the third slot. Still experimenting tbh but wanted to sort of compare the different styles and make my assessment from there

[elder crane]

818 on Shinano slot 3 is quite the waste imo

[narrow obsidian]

What should back line secondaries guns be ?

[candid sluice]

Nepgun is what I use

[narrow obsidian]

What about scuttle gun ?

[hot creek]

seattle gun

[snow snow]

if you have extras, then seattle/chapa gun

but vg gets prio for those

[elder crane]

Chapagun is no good
It doesn't have the PR extended range

[meager valley]

Seattle gun is bis because it has a long range. Next best is the chappy gun. You can run AP but I don't like only AP because of Yukikaze.

[frail orbit]

Its not even BiS

Nepgun next best

Koz of the range

Rule of thumb
If u dont have 3 scuttlegun/nepgun for BB aux then ur next bet is a DD gun which is much worse

Bkoz u dont even wanna expect yourself to be on the receiving end of VG death

[storm jewel]

[rustic ridge]

is setup list being up to date? Was expecting drake to be in one of the setups

[hot creek]

Drake's not well-suited for pvp, theoretically. Nobody's really tested her at D30 yet though I wouldn't expect much from her.

[candid sluice]

Aside from nugget toes who else can use wnt as flag?

[meager valley]

FDG, maybe Amagi and maybe Richelieu.

I can't this of any other decent flagships rn

[elder crane]

WNT is mountable on CV/L too no?

So literally anyone

20 eva 30 hit is good for anyone too

[light crystal]

That's BS imo. I rather use Chapgun than Napgun, a little extra range be dammed. AP just tickles VG, whereas HE actually shreds it. Naturally, I use Seattlegun either way.

[upper cove]

it's less about HE having good mods and more like seattlegun/chappy gun just having a lot of base damage/dps

the extra range on seattlegun makes it the better choice but honestly there's not much of a budget choice after those 2

[frail orbit]

That's BS imo. I rather use Chapgun than Napgun, a little extra range be dammed. AP just tickles VG, whereas HE actually shreds it. Naturally, I use Seattlegun either way.
Lul, back in the day when there's no Scuttlegun, it's the best thing u got anyway

[elder crane]

That "little extra range" is the diff between hitting and not hitting the defense vanguard
You literally are in range twice as often (or more on sides) with Nepgun rather than Chappygun
15 range difference!

[light crystal]

It doesn't matter tho

It tickles

I rather murder than tickle

[elder crane]

Nepgun does more than half the DpS of chappy gun

Muuuuch more

[light crystal]

Dude I know this, I've seen how AP secondary guns behave as opposed to HE ones in PvP lol

[elder crane]

So have we all, since Nepgun til PR2 was the only option lol

[light crystal]

Seattlegun is superior of the two. Wut I'm saying tho is that I rather use a Chpagun than a Nepgun.

[elder crane]

Enjoy being able to hit <1/2 the time

[light crystal]

Enjoy tickling the VG

[elder crane]

Much better than doing literally nothing

[light crystal]

Rather kill VG when it counts tbh

[elder crane]

then run DD gun

[light crystal]

I think in your case you've used torp meme, so you may value the support of the backline more over than actual damage, so you value being able to hit at range, regardless of actual damage. Which is alright

[elder crane]

Dude

I fucking hate torpmeme

I tried it two season just to see how it is

[light crystal]

I thought u used it :v

[elder crane]

Still hate it

Waaaay too RNG

Especially in mirror

Well I suppose I also used semitorpmemes a bit waaay back when

Suicide vanguard with WaSDA/Hiryuu Amagi Hood

That still ran Juneau though

[light crystal]

I used to use Noshiro, but tbh, Azuma is so much better lol

I suppose if u dont have Azuma Dev 30, Noshiro is aight

[elder crane]

Azuma is much better in current meta yeah

[light crystal]

I never did use VH Azuma

[elder crane]

VH Azuma was never good in EN

[light crystal]

First of all, because torp meme never went away on EN at first, unlike Pepega JP/CN

[elder crane]

Meta never got to being that polarized

[light crystal]

And now, well, witht he advent of CV's, she'd take more AVI dmg anyway kek

[elder crane]

I mean
I've been saying that since forever lol

[upper cove]

noshiro was working fine with me but I switched up my comp and now I think azuma would be much better

[light crystal]

She does fuckton of damage with ACC boost from Gyro and Nagato

And the Idol Heels are so good. With a Gyro, it gives her decent EVA, and puts her right at 40 Speed too (27 + 5 + 8). She's very much at home atm

[elder crane]

#pvp message
This was the first time I really riffed on VH Azuma here; earliest post here I found saying it's a tradefoff was dec 2019

[frail orbit]

Then again
It only prosper in CN/JP and even then, a very niche case of it due to most of em already getting D30 Azuma/FDG way before us getting PR2

I meant regarding Azuma VH

Could be said that this is a very niche case of server disrepancy

[elder crane]

Reminds me of sanrui for Namaryuu lol

[sacred heath]

wtb more rushers in my queue, pst

[sacred heath]

fkn fk

i forgot refresh and dropped one

can i please just have one perfect season

[naive dome]

i have had perfect season and then i overslept and missed fights

[light crystal]

Stacking Fleet Power I see.

[midnight heron]

its hilarious how ppl dont understand backlines cant make good use of dmg control https://youtu.be/gR8ruTkS5sw

[elder crane]

If only it wasn't forced death, basically

[trail temple]

[royal oyster]

we knew all along that enty with that aux was an anti-synergy

[light crystal]

Funny because it was probably meant to be her signature item ♿

[frail orbit]

Signature item my ass

Juneau Christ resurrection lah

[light crystal]

Well, lore-wise I meant.

The whole taking fuckton of damage multiple times but kept coming for more after them repairs and she getting the Grey Ghost moniker cuz of it

[sour oasis]

True, but it is a surprise if she's the last of the enemy alive and continues to Lucky E; it's got a good chance of doing heavy damage to a vanguard and main fleet at the same time.
If you can reliably get to Enterprise, putting the damage control manjuu in the front wouldn't help their fleet comp much anyway.

[storm jewel]

my winrate against this man is like

30%

so frustrated

[rustic ridge]

why? amagi/nagato/fdg should smash that

[storm jewel]

i mirrored him except azuma (noshiro instead)

[meager valley]

Usually when you get low win rates I find its because your opponent has really good gear

Idk why but It tends to look like most people don't use rudders on their backline

[slender atlas]

why? amagi/nagato/fdg should smash that
@rustic ridge
ya but win rate is not high though😂

[meager valley]

Warspite is better than FDG in that comp tbh

Shinano dies really quickly from Amagi+Warspite barrage since her skill doesn't seem to account for barrages

[slender atlas]

dont underrestimate barrage of fdg

[meager valley]

Yeah FDG has a insane barrage but does she hit the same target as Amagi?

[elder crane]

Yeah you're going to have a bad time without own Azuma if you try to mirror

[slender atlas]

👍

[storm jewel]

ya my azuma is 109, cant match that

[elder crane]

I wish
Takes until almost 40 s at minimum, basically
Especially if they're running rudder on Shinano

[slender atlas]

my fav team comp, pretty high win rate againt any team.

[storm jewel]

and interesting enough, we always sometime end up in hiryuu vs hiryuu fight, and im too scared for it

[elder crane]

That's pretty typical

[meager valley]

She tends to die quickly vs Shinano/Warspite/Amagi. It could be crash damage that makes the difference for me since I go barracuda/swordfish.

[elder crane]

This is with or without Jun+Ykkz?

On enemy side

[meager valley]

With Ykkz only

[elder crane]

Oh well no surprise there

[meager valley]

Shit vanguard means Juneau doesn't die

[elder crane]

How do you win then

[slender atlas]

sometime idk why enemy azuma so tanky than mine. lol, maybe 2 eva gear

[elder crane]

Probably cause low speed on your vanguard

JdA base speed is

[slender atlas]

🙄i have 4 spd gear in fleet lol

[meager valley]

It just works. Jueanu/Ykkz/Noshiro doesn't deal much damage but they have enough support/tankiness that it tends to work out.

[elder crane]

Yeah and you could be running just 3 instead

But then JdA

That's the annoying thing about her, sadly

That and no Juneau

[light crystal]

I can confirm Jeanne is excellent. But i only used with Richy. Richy/amagi/wk-Juneau/Jeanne/ykkz

97-98% WR against anything, for 3 months straight. Only stopped being as reliable, sub 95%, once Shinano came into the scene

[storm jewel]

Pog

[rustic ridge]

did you even beat fdg+dog with that setup?

[sacred heath]

how quickly do changes to your defense fleet get synced with server? once per hour?

[hot creek]

sometimes 20 mins. sometimes an hour. nobody really knows.

[elder crane]

It for sure syncs at server reset times though

[light crystal]

This is interesting, I'm not running Fighters on Shinano, yet still gets more plane kills than say Hiryuu 🤔

Oh, it could be that since Hiryuu launches/scrambles planes slightly faster than Shinano's slow ass, they soften up the enemy planes, so Shinano's end up finishing them off?

[upper cove]

I mean aa is fundamentally rng to begin with but ya hiryuu softening them up is possible

[rich escarp]

Any good reccomendations for vanguard ships until I get my azuma? I already have Juneau and Yukikaze (the great) equipped

[sacred heath]

Noshiro?

[rich escarp]

Aw, I would love to, but I don't have her until they rerun her event

How good would Jintsuu be?

[snow snow]

not that great tbh

she's glass compared to noshiro

unless you're using a fleet that takes advantage of her torp buffs, she isn't that good

better replacement would be saint louis

[rich escarp]

the french one or the one with the car skin everyone makes fan art of?

[sacred oracle]

🥖

[radiant brook]

FFNF Louis = sanrui
USS Louis = lewdis

At least that's how we call them

[light crystal]

[rich escarp]

I suppose Sanrui could kinda work with her engine boost skill...

[meager valley]

Sanrui is good cause of that and her augmented HE ammo skill

Not meta anymore but she used to be

[candid sluice]

What aux is used on ykk and jun?

[snow snow]

manjuu/pearl/torp bulge + boiler on juneau
pearl/fire extin + boiler on ykk

[light crystal]

I use Boiler/550HP on my YKKZ

I feel that fire mitigation is meaningless in CV meta, and as boosting average Speed to 43 instead of just 40 (As in my current set-up) is counterproductive too. Rather have that higher HP safeguard to make use of Manjuu Juneau.

[spark galleon]

Does the 15% AVI buff from shinano's yellow skill apply in pvp? The one that applies to the first 2 battles of each sortie in pve

[elder crane]

PvP fight always counts as fight 1 for any skills that care

[safe meteor]

whats a CV meta?

[crude mortar]

not yet

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/270859188442365952/787967728781754398/682722718818500623.gif

wait next patch

[light crystal]

31 kills. Like bruh, she's not even using any fighters! Amazing.

[serene saddle]

Starting to like this setup

Hms backline sniper with anti air supports

[meager valley]

Have you tried main tank juneau?

[waxen dawn]

Soon vicky will no longer be a meme not really

[cursive leaf]

what's the best way to beef up Juneau to boost her survival as main tank? I feel like right now as VG1 she dies too quickly, but if i put her in VG3, my main tank dies before her.

[sacred heath]

damage control + nelson pennant

[elder crane]

Use the new DCP on her
Let her die then have the 8 s make her heal at right time

And yea nelson pennant can also help adjust

[cursive leaf]

ahh okay. i only have the nelson pennant for now. i think my juneau is using a toolbox and pearls tears, probably crap choices i know.

i have a long way to go before i'm able to get the damage control aux, but i'll keep that in mind, thank you!

[elder crane]

You probably want torpbulge for now
Also consider spreading out the heal on pearl

[cursive leaf]

is there an updated resource where i can read all about pvp guide(s)? I'd prefer reading rather than vomiting questions in here.

I've checked the azurlane pvp en tierlist but a lot of the info there seems to be outdated from what i've noticed just from observing chat in this channel

[elder crane]

Setup-wise things are still a bit in flux due to new equipment being still relatively recent

[cursive leaf]

like certain ships and their recommended gear not being the same

[elder crane]

How to do PvP and mechanics stuff is mostly (?) In pins, none of that has changed

Some general advice remains the same though
Like evasion/hit on main fleet being much more valuable than in PvE

And speed being valuable for vanguard

[cursive leaf]

got it. thank you.

[elder crane]

Main fleet evasion is actually stronger in PvE than in PvP, it's just usually useless since usually the only things shooting at main there is stuff who's dangerous from burns, so fire extinguisher is better
But keep this in mind for events that spam AP shelling at main fleet and for op siren

Hit is more valuable since player ships have higher evasion/luck than almost all PvE enemies, and hit stat offsets that
Keep this in mind for op siren again, and some EX bosses

[cursive leaf]

ahh, i see. I feel like i'm fundamentally ignorant on the way pvp mechanics work.

like for example why hiryuu kai's rec aux gear is avgas and beacon

also there was some interesting discussion a while back in this channel regarding best planes, and seems like (gold?) cudas are better than ryuuseis because of something called crash damage?

[elder crane]

I don't use either on her though
I'm using rudder+mic instead
Rudder on most main fleet ships is standard now since 40 evasion is just too good
Mic is specialized hit stat is good and the teams that are actually threaten my setup on offense are 2 CV setups, so extra AA helps

Planes reaching end of screen cause dmg to main fleet

Just like enemy planes in PvE

Barracuda has very high crash dmg for whatever reason

I personally still prefer either Ryuusei or swordfish 818 squadron on her though

Anyways beacon is used for timing adjustment reasons

[cursive leaf]

ahh i see

[elder crane]

On Hiryuu, that's usually for mirrors, so your Hiryuu launches first

[cursive leaf]

i had assumed that the reason for avgas and beacon both on hiryuu was to maximize final counter or something

[elder crane]

Avgas is used to make planes more resistant to AA dmg, so they do more crash

Since crash dmg scales with remaining HP

[cursive leaf]

ah interesting

[elder crane]

30% is always done, 70% is with remaining HP

[cursive leaf]

so one thing i noticed about hiryuu, is that when the ryuusei's hit their torps, she absolutely destroys, but very often she just whiffs ships completely with the torps. i watch them sadly fly off screen not hitting anything.

[elder crane]

Crash dmg always happens - it cannot be evaded, and will never overkill much (unlike bombs/torps which can be dropped on ships that just died already)

Yes that's typical

That's part of why extra speed on vanguard is so good

[cursive leaf]

and i'm guessing by the gear that you recommended above, that isn't worth correcting with like hit or accuracy increasing equip, right? it's just a fact of pvp

[elder crane]

Extra speed means you have a good chance of physically dodging aimed torps, bombs, and battleship shelling

Oh it's literally just moving out of the AoE
The only thing that can be done about it is applying a slow effect

That's why swordfish 818 squad is sometimes used

[cursive leaf]

does this channel offer fleet building advice like gameplay-help? i feel like i have no clue what i'm doing when it comes to even that. i'm just using my highest level ships currently, but i don't know who to train up to use for pvp.

[elder crane]

Could you show us what you have?

[cursive leaf]

sure! of course.

i'm glad this channel exists. i can understand people wanting to be tight lipped about fleets or equips that work in pvp since well.. it's a competition. but i'm happy to find people willing to help

[elder crane]

For a lot of this stuff, CN server tends to do more work on it
Player count things and all

If you're willing to dig through with google-tl, chinese AL wiki has some good info
For the most detail, you'll have to dig through the forums or bilibili though, which gets a bit tough to do

[cursive leaf]

i took a screenshot of a couple of my formations that i use depending on the situation, as well as my defense fleet. i'll add dock screens as well so i can get advice on what to level up for pvp?

[elder crane]

Just show dock mostly
Also as a jyfi if you use secretary selection, you get a cleaner display of dock

[cursive leaf]

seems like i get a big bar that says cancel or confirm at the bottom though

oh and i can filter out commons for the purposes of dock showing right? i'm assuming even in pvp commons aren't feasible.

[elder crane]

Well at least it's properly entirely sorted by the criteria you tell it to sort by

If you're looking for end comp, no, but levels >> anything else
There's some decently useful commons for PvE too

Anyways as you probably have noticed, earlier on, just take your highest lv stuff that's decent
10 levels matters much more than making a better team
So don't worry too much about that until lv110+
You'll probably want to focus on PvE before PvP until you complete ch12, since that's where you'll do most of your post-lv100 leveling
PvE itself I would rec you don't care too much about leveling the best ships until at least ch 8, since 8-4 is a good pre-lv-100 spot

[cursive leaf]

i'm currently on 12-2

https://imgur.com/a/eLmGOcs

[elder crane]

Yeah that's a pretty good spot
12-2 or 12-4 is usually preferred

[cursive leaf]

i guess the images are out of order, even though when i made the post it was in the order i wanted. sorry about that

[elder crane]

I'd probably rec you work towards Nagato Hiryuu Shinano setup given you don't have Amagi
Could also maybe try warkai in there instead (?)
Washington Naval Treaty if the 2 CV setup, unless you want to go for torps with it - wouldn't recommend that without Noshiro, or if you don't have black torpedo aux
Vanguard is for sure Juneau and Yukikaze
Preferred third would be Azuma, but getting her to the dev20+ needed will take you a looong time probably
Noshiro sadly also not an option
Saint Louis or maybe Helena are your best bets I assume, for now

Wait why did I assume you have Yukikaze lol

[cursive leaf]

haha

i wish i had yukikaze

i've been rolling light build forever

and just never get her

[elder crane]

Sirius could also be something you try
Main issue will be not having your vanguard fold in before Shinano and Hiryuu can put in work

I'd rec you 818 Hiryuu and go for that RNG in that case, since Shinano can murder vanguards if Hiryuu lands 818 slow

Sadly I don't really see how any vanguard you field will make it to 45 s vs good setups without a minor miracle, so you'll have to kill their vanguard before that
Well, unless you want to commit to getting dev25 Azuma

[cursive leaf]

yeah my vanguard appears to be the weakpoint in both pvp and pve play

[elder crane]

I think you have some pretty good options for PvE vanguard
Just PvP is, uh, fairly particular about what ships should do

Also for the PvE end of things, if you haven't heard yet, the Takao class (Takao, Atago, Maya, Choukai) are getting a fairly large buff for PvE with the release of op siren
Well, unless they tone down the buff before it releases

[frail orbit]

Then again
It's beta thingy

Inb4 gotta get rekt for talking about beta stuffs

🏃💨

[elder crane]

Tl;dr is that after 20 s they will be on the level of Portland tankiness or higher for PvE content

[cursive leaf]

wow that seems like something i'd really be interested in. I've always liked Takao and Atago and was sad to see that they're not "that great"

[candid sluice]

At what point in the ranks do I start getting bonus points like +11s? Is there a specific number of tanks above me my opponent has to be at?

I feel like it’s different for every rank

[mint hornet]

starting from you're above 1050 points, the person you fight has to be 35 above you to give you +11
and 71 points above you to give +12 (70 up can give +2 but i've never seen it myself)

ideally they rush into top 100 and you can see exactly how many points they have above you

otherwise you kinda have to get a feel for it/math out how likely they are to be 35 points above you

for your other question

[candid sluice]

Only 35? I feel like I’ve taken on higher ranks and still gotten +10 from em

[frail orbit]

35 as in

[mint hornet]

the rank that the person has is different from how many points they have

[frail orbit]

The points

Not the ranks

Usually

[mint hornet]

lemme ss my list to show it

[frail orbit]

Top 100 rusher plebs

Anyway if he's on avro

Just share the name of rushers

[candid sluice]

I’m in amagi

[frail orbit]

Ouch

[candid sluice]

Yea I’m working on compiling my own list of rushers but it’s taking a while

[mint hornet]

so rank 260 is probably only 10-13 points above me

[candid sluice]

So is it a difference in total points?

[mint hornet]

yea

[candid sluice]

Ahh there’s no way of finding out how many points they have huh aside from just asking

[mint hornet]

this is the breakpoints at other points in the season

it's in the pinned list if you ever need to see it again

yea the only ways are either
they're in top 100, you ask them or you kinda math it out

like say top 100 is 50 points above you
you can probably fight rank 150 160 and still get a bonus point

[candid sluice]

Ahh alright sounds good, thanks!

[mint hornet]

np

good luck

and if you're just trying to go for aotn

rush on one of the later resets (saturday or sunday) because there will be less people also rushing for it

[candid sluice]

I mean I’m on amagi so getting aotn isn’t a problem

I’m shooting for end of season lol

[storm jewel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/762686402025619516/788321739024236574/image0.png

which one for azuma?

[candid sluice]

Baguette

[trail temple]

If they're not in the top 100, no you're just making an educated guess as to whether they're score is 35 points or higher than yours. 9/10 I guess right but it's the 1/10 that gets me and that's usually when I'm chancing one where I am close to the +10/+11 threshold

[elder crane]

Taaaashgun
Azuma's main job is to murder vanguard before she sinks

Hence why CN actually prefers 114 mm apparently, since more AA = less dmg from airstrikes

[trail temple]

I've sometimes notice that when my Shinano does her air strike, her ryuuseis are sending the torps in parallel as opposed to converging. I originally thought that maybe the vg had a part to play but it also happens when there's no backline. Has that happened with anyone else?

[elder crane]

that happens sometimes when the intended target dies before the torps are dropped and retargeting doesn't happen in time

can happen with aimed torps on anyone

[storm jewel]

hmmm AA, less damage from airstrike

seem like the need for VF17 in shinano

[dim portal]

Definitely not worried.....

[radiant brook]

Does the pvp rank gain affected by the foe you face?

Like you get less rank if you fight a sandbag team instead of a meta team that is meant to stop you

[candid sluice]

The points you gain are based off your opponents points

Which is why you always fight the leftmost person

[radiant brook]

unless it's the IJN meta with retrospite

[candid sluice]

Well if it’s not gonna give you bonus points then just reset

[upper cove]

yes that's how the in game timer works

[dim portal]

yeah probably why Warspite was 1 pixel away from sinking 9s into the battle

[candid sluice]

Is reppuu or pirate better on hiryuu?

[elder crane]

Pirate usually preferred these days

[candid sluice]

Reppus not used to bait planes anymore?

[elder crane]

Given the state of ship options, no one should have particularly good AA damage, pretty much (anyone who does ends up being easier to beat anyways for taking it)
And given Shinano, extra AA for air dmg resist is nice

the 5% AA buff is like 3.5% ish less dmg taken

I was thinking about stealth buff last night, and, hmm
10% air dmg resist pen
given the usual AA values of PvP ships, that's around +30% dmg dealt, multiplicative
combine that with +25-30% dmg from +13, and feels like there's potential for major shifts

Just taking our current basic 818 Hiryuu-Shinano setup, that's going to be an incredibly annoying defense setup afterwards
basically your vanguard is dead if 818 lands with both those dmg increases, unless you maybe like try to Eldridge or something
Ofc devs maybe will adjust PvP, but uh, I'm not holding my breath lol

And 818 on offense is just super unreliable, I was testing some setup timings yesterday and 818 just didn't land with 3 TBs launched half the time...

it's Nagato barrage all over again but even more swingy

Foxes maybe have a possible thing too since their strike will disrupt enemy stealth buff, and stealth maybe helps mitigate their survivability issues

If perseus somehow makes it into PvP I will laugh my head off
seems really yabai though, so ehhh

[meager valley]

if neptune can't win with an HE gun, can we truly say that she's good in exercises? Many many shipgirls are able to win if you put the right pieces around them, give them the best conditions to work in, act supportive of their skillsets, but if Neptune really had the heart of a champion, she would be able to do it with HE just like how she can do it with AP. There's even another cruiser from her royal navy, Drake - she does it with Normal ammo. To leave a lasting legacy on the exercise scene, my wish is to see Neptune with HE ammo.

[elder crane]

With op siren upcoming, Nep is pretty much the worst-off PR now in general

Even (fs5) Izumo finally found a use since siren killer does make her the like 4/5th best flagship vs sirens

[sacred heath]

my speedy vanguard keeps committing suicide by overshooting enemy flagship and then getting stuck on her

[frail orbit]

Isnt that always been the case tho?

[elder crane]

Izumo is worse off normally
But being dmg-focused, Siren Killer saves her

Nep meanwhile is survivability focused but not even that good
Extra dmg is nice but doesn't matter too much

[stable dawn]

nep buff when

[light crystal]

Neptune doesnt really need any buffs imo

[brisk swallow]

How easy is it to reach top 1000 (Rear Admiral Lower Half) in a season without a meta fleet?

Captain seems to be my limit

[sacred oracle]

If you throw any vaguely synergistic fleet of 115+ish ships and farm points from the beginning of the season it shouldn’t be too hard

Might be even easier than that

[midnight heron]

rly hard to answer tbh cuz most of us have left those scrub days behind long ago lul

[royal oyster]

if you have exactly 0 bonus you can get all the ranks except aotn if you don't lose

with 5 refreshes a day and a list of 4 opponents it's hard to get into an unwinnable list considering your ability to reset fights

[brisk swallow]

Would someone like to help me assemble an exercise fleet? I've been using one I crafted months ago by haphazardly throwing my at the time best ships together

[royal oyster]

you should level your ships. you're not going to win against full 120s with 100s

[brisk swallow]

So top 1000 in a season is impossible as of current?

[royal oyster]

I guess warspite suruga hyuuga and your 3 highest level vanguards

replace them with better pvp ships from the pinned tierlist, or newer ships like shinano

[sacred heath]

I dropped a fight earlier today against Namano + juneau yuki azuma

was using nagato shinano 818hiryuu + juneau yuki noshiro

couldn't kill their vanguard for the life of me. just couldn't do it. probably should've dropped hiryuu and gone back to amagi or warkai to snipe their amagi

just frustrating

818 hiryuu on attack is just too inconsistent

[hot creek]

Not having Azuma yourself is rather signifigant.

[sacred heath]

yeah my azuma is only 108/25; working on her now finally

nm, azuma garbo tier

brb scrapping azuma

[upper cove]

Azuma bad

[royal oyster]

definitely doesn't have anything to do with the two aagm+1 ships in there. no bugs with our mvp screens here

[sacred heath]

tbf i've been grinding this team for a couple days and isuzu has only gotten mvp twice

but azuma bad still confirmed

[somber axle]

Buff Azuma

[mint hornet]

fate sim buffs now

[candid sluice]

Is 818 really that bad on offense

Or is it’s inconsistency that’s really frustrating

[sacred heath]

the inconsistency

when things connect, the enemy gets baleeted hard

[radiant brook]

Pvp really is very rng

Your team hoards the torps while the enemy avoids them all

And then stuff like lucky E or Monarch's Coercion never price for you but always proc for the other team

[candid sluice]

[sacred heath]

[clear briar]

[candid sluice]

I hope the line of detection for CVs is equal for both sides, attacker and defender

[radiant brook]

How to stop my ships from intentionally eating all the torpedoes in pvp?

[elder crane]

Soon you'll find out the question to ask is

How to have lead vanguard sweep up all torps before hitting main fleet?

[radiant brook]

Still the same though, since the enemy torps never miss, like my ships have literally 0 evade

So they could just eat torps and die instantly

I'm starting to hate rng fleets like belfast/enty

They either have invincible smoke or constant lucky E procs

[elder crane]

Oh, lower level fleets?
Things get better at higher ship levels, since higher PvP HP multiplier
Also 10 levels >> everything else on ship selection, so don't worry too much about using particular ship until post lv110

Work towards picking up the manjuu DCP in collection rewards, put that on lead USN vanguard (especially Juneau) and it helps a ton
Nelson's semaphore is nice too

[radiant brook]

Working on it but facing full 120 meta fleets everywhere is a pain, I feel like completing the daily 3 pvp wins is pretty impossible since I don't have those same ships

Like belfast with her invincible smoke

[elder crane]

If you're losing vs bel, I'd rec you go for reverse sandbagging to deliberately keep your rank low so you can win more

[radiant brook]

And I feel like my own smoke will provide no evade increase

Oh and my team's rng based proc will never activate like lucky E or monarch red skill

What's reverse sandbagging? Intentionally losing?

My pvp fleet

[elder crane]

You get more pt gain for fighting ppl of higher pts
So you deliberately fight lower rank ppl to take fewer pt gain

[radiant brook]

Can't do that when everyone is full meta fleet filled with lucky rng procs

[elder crane]

Yeah do you have like anything decent lv110+ for main fleet?
For now that will be better than Monarch
Understandable if you want the XP though

[radiant brook]

Everyone I see is about 14k+ power on both sides

Nope, those are my highest leveled main fleet units besides sara at 110

[elder crane]

Additionally just like normal sandbag, hold at least 5/10 matches at all times to keep score low

[radiant brook]

Now I have 5/10 so wait until reset?

[elder crane]

Yeah if you can

110 Sara, mmm, idk if that does better than 103 Monarch

Also on equipment selection different from PvE
It's never bad to put a PR rudder on any and every main fleet ship, and BB should take SG Radar rather than Shells
Vanguard should ditch rudder and toolbox for more engines though
As you noticed, ships have lower evarate in PvP (due to enemy hit stat being higher) so just physically dodging shit by sheer movement speed tends to work out better

[radiant brook]

Now I start meeting sandbag teams after intentionally losing once

And I have only 1 washing machine thx to my acc being less than 3 months old

[elder crane]

Yeah that's a RIP

Not much to do about that
2 SG radar on BB is fine too
Also the 15 evasion 25 hit event aux for CVs

[radiant brook]

Dosen't matter, as long as they have evade, my ships will never hit anything

[trail temple]

Do you think, with the stealth mechanic, we'll be likely to shifting towards the use of parallel TBs as opposed to Ryuusei?

[elder crane]

I think with wyvern everyone will run wyvern or bust

450 crash dmg TB
With intercept capabilities

That and intercepting means destealth

[candid sluice]

So CVs that are under stealth cannot be targeted at all? By the likes of warkai and friends?

But they can still be hit by stray torps and whatnot right

[elder crane]

Yep and yep

[candid sluice]

So then warkai will just target the next ship down the line huh

And if they’re all CVs she’ll attempt to shoot vang

[trail temple]

Yes

[candid sluice]

Hooh time to test out triple CVs

Would barrages still aim at the backline?

[stable dawn]

Eagle Union meta?

[elder crane]

Fixed/linear barrage ofc still work as usual

Also no it's IJN meta one way or another

[trail temple]

The IJN simping continues

[abstract cypress]

still waiting kms to be good

[storm jewel]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1mi4y157um?from=search&seid=6612364335928600756

Feelsgoodman BB is gone

[trail temple]

still waiting kms to be good
You will be waiting a looong time

[candid sluice]

Lol what is that vid

[upper cove]

bruh moment

[radiant brook]

Cool, 1 BB 2 CV meta again

Still nugget with shin+another CV

[crude jetty]

can you still get this manju item?

I never knew where to get it in the first place <.<

[candid sluice]

Yeah it’s a collection reward for yorktown and her sisters

[crude jetty]

ohh!! so I can still get it!! :3

nice

is it new BiS for Juneau?

[abstract cypress]

BiS on any ship

[midnight heron]

bis on backline

[abstract cypress]

id put on backline if u can put multiple of it

hp + aa pog

[elder crane]

There's the potential for Shinano or Nagato with Foxes, what with all the dmg boosts
But yeah given wyvern exists, I don't think standard setup can do any better than Nagato Shinano Hiryuu

[radiant brook]

As soon as one dies, the boost goes away so that's another point to shin+hiryuu

[elder crane]

Nah it actually sticks around
But the issue is probably Hiryuu basically, as always

If it can at least somewhat reliably 1-shot vanguard though, maaaaybe

[radiant brook]

And final counter cheese

[candid sluice]

Hiryuu not being snipeable by wardog is gonna be annoying

[elder crane]

Actually, for Akaga, maybe you double microphone them

[granite flame]

[stable dawn]

shinano hiryuu meta confirmed eternal

time to buy more rings

[sacred heath]

implying you didn't already oath hiryuu for waifu reasons

[stable dawn]

The real meta is to rename her to Ch'en after oath

[edgy kiln]

is this the strongest pvp setup right now?

i have serious trouble defeating this fleet

[radiant brook]

Pretty much the best rn

Even worse if enty replaces shin with non stop luck E

[edgy kiln]

Ent still relevant?

[mint hornet]

Not really, you can 2 shot her with warkai barrage and the 1st main gun Salvo before she launches

[edgy kiln]

is there any setup without Juneau & Hiryuu to "somewhat" rival that?

pvp is slowly getting out of my hand

[naive dome]

the only non-juneau vg that can compete with that is torpmeme

warkai amagi shinano backline can deal with that, if you're not into hiryuu, still a 50/50 tbh

i feel bad for the poor souls in pvp without shinano

[candid sluice]

With the CV hidden mechanic, would eva aux items be a lower priority for carriers? Maybe prioritize beacon and avgas to launch planes faster and reveal enemy CVs?

Or would washing machine still be used

[naive dome]

from that bilibili video above, AA seems to be buffed so I think gas tank would be required

[edgy kiln]

is there any new gear list update for pvp i can look into?

[candid sluice]

Yeah I feel like gas is a priority to get planes to end of the screen, replacing rudder

[elder crane]

Probs gas cause the new TB is broken af for crash yeah, and for destealth reasons
I'm thinking microphone second though for smacking vanguard

No Eva needed cause stealth, probably

[elder crane]

Without Juneau or Azuma your only chance is torpmemes, but even that is going to be tough since you really want Hiryuu with torpmemes
Still, just RNG well enough and its doable

[somber axle]

Marry Juneau

[elder crane]

Thankfully w DCP around it doesn't matter so much your Jun level/oath

As long as she makes through the burst dmg using DCP

[midnight heron]

wow just met a torpmeme dat actually does wat its supposed to do

8.3k crits and 4.8k non crits

its either my backline gets deleted instantly or they get deleted

[rich escarp]

I keep running people with muse items. Is this the new pvp meta?

[royal oyster]

playing music for your pvp opponent is one kind of meta

[storm jewel]

may i guess his name to be Yukice

[midnight heron]

no

its on relaxington

[light crystal]

I'm waiting to see how Meta Bunny is gonna be in PvP potentially. I know the main weakness is not getting buffed by Nagato/Shinano tho. Buteh, maybe her other strengths can offset that demerit.

[sacred heath]

No final counter is a big loss

[light crystal]

Eh, it's w/e imo. I'm more interested to see her offensive power. Worst comes to worst, if u really want ur LC no matter wut, just run double Hiryuu. Or, Run Meta Hiryuu Offense and leave regular on Defense. Either way, still intersted to see if she can see play in PvP

[storm jewel]

its a forking dope ship who really care a guy in here run triple murica cvs and it works

[slender atlas]

which to replace Jeane for better survive hyryu+shinano air strike? currently using azuma yuki jeane

[slender atlas]

i think torp VG more scary, this team i can win most the time, ionly lost to torp team

[meager valley]

Juneau

Noshiro maybe if you don't want to use Juneau

Or Cheshire. I think she can be pretty strong.

[solid phoenix]

Hey people, is FdG Dev 30 is still considered on-par VS Shinano with Namagi?

[meager valley]

I don't think so

[cursive leaf]

man, i think next season i'm going to try 0-5 sandbag instead of 5-10

i think i missed more than 15 exercises

[elder crane]

FdG clearly no longer reigns supreme
Still very good ofc... until stealth probably, then probably will be hard to even say that

[edgy kiln]

team comp is not the only problem, the guy is unusual, like you i can win most of the time but not this guy, or i was extremely unlucky

[royal oyster]

he's probably properly geared unlike most people

[edgy kiln]

of course

[storm jewel]

ye team comp is not the only problem, plenty of torp meme plenty of shinaryuu but only 1-2 are really pain in the butt

[granite flame]

@elder crane stealth?

[trail temple]

New cv mechanic

[light crystal]

Interesting fleet.

Got carried by the carriers thankfully

[candid sluice]

Ibuki

[jovial sedge]

Guess everyone knows but some things just wont change in this game

Its even called meta ffs... This insane dev bias

[mint hornet]