pvp

[junior trench]

I'd disagree, some people care about PvP but either missed a certain UR or weren't able to hit pity.

[whole salmon]

You won’t see them because they literally disappear after the first week from your matching list

[whole salmon]

It’s 2023, if you don’t have a UR you won’t meet top 300

[junior trench]

I didn't say a UR, I said all. I meant more so those who don't have all three of the big UR backlines

[whole salmon]

What UR would you have to miss to swap in a Royal Oak?

Enlighten me

[ocean quest]

[whole salmon]

[junior trench]

You're taking my comment way too seriously my dude

I just said I expected niche use

And you're grilling me over it

Like, ya it didn't happen, I can tell

[whole salmon]

This isn’t a niche use

This is a substitute of a substitute of a substitute

You are talking like 20 ships down in the food chain

[junior trench]

You know what I mean

[whole salmon]

Royal Oak is as pvp meta as Monarch

[junior trench]

hindsight is 20/20

[whole salmon]

And your takes have all been close to incorrect so far

Kear didn’t replace Musashi

Kear wasn’t used in CV comp

And Kear ended up being the very thing that killed CV in pvp, congratulations

And it ended up being exactly how it was supposed to be

[junior trench]

First of all, they were guesses

Second of all, did I slight you in some way in the past where you're going to grill over crap like this for no reason?

[whole salmon]

Like I said before, you have every right to speculate

But most of your takes have next to no basis

[junior trench]

Apparently not

[junior trench]

Apparently I'm not allowed

[whole salmon]

I asked you to support your idea, you didn’t provide any

You said to wait and see, and now we have seen

[junior trench]

Ya we've seen

[whole salmon]

I’m putting a conclusion on a previous conversation that was put on hold

And that is all

[junior trench]

Ok, but why in the world are you turning an offhanded comment about Royal Oak into this?

[whole salmon]

It’s the same case again, you can speculate on usage of Royal Oak. But at least give evidence as to which scenario or which cases she could have been used in

You said to use it as budget, I asked budget to which ship, you didn’t answer

Perhaps my tone can sound a bit aggressive from your perspective but I want more concrete evidence and examples so testings can be forwarded

[junior trench]

I'm not sitting here pretending to know all about PvP

[whole salmon]

I’m all down to testing weird stuff like how we have Fortune Meta raised. i like more ideas but it still need to have some basis

[junior trench]

My opinions are not of someone who's top 10 in rankings, I've never been close.

[whole salmon]

We have even tested Luna Akagi Kaga comp and I can bet no one here even know that comp existed

But at least that comp had some theories to it

If you like Royal Oak and wanted testings done, we require the context of the fleet she is used in

[junior trench]

You're taking this way too seriously

[stable dawn]

pvp is a toxic gamemode

[junior trench]

I'm not saying this in the fact that I wanted to see vigorous testing done, my comment was as simple as it was when I said it, I just expected to see her at least a little bit after we saw what her skills were. That's it. That's all I said. I do not think she's good right now, nor do I think she will be unless like stated earlier we get a UR RN ship that super buffs her. I'm not in anyway campaigning for usage or anything like that. My comment was as simple as it appeared.

Like, does this mean I have to be interrogated anytime I say anything on here? Because if that's the case I'd rather just shut up.

[whole salmon]

Then I apologize if I caused you any inconvenience

[whole salmon]

Lmao this is already considered toxic? What does that make sigma Famine

[stable dawn]

the best way to play pvp is to not play pvp

the best way to discuss pvp is to avoid discussing pvp

the way ALO intended

[whole salmon]

But we are the one that have to do the guide to promote pvp

[stable dawn]

[boreal comet]

As if pve is any better in that regard

[zenith lantern]

Royal Oak was DoA, she's just a much worse version of Seydlitz

[scenic tendon]

Speaking about killing CVs, I havent seen anyone testing "2nd".

A decent BBV

[ocean quest]

just use kear

[scenic tendon]

my kearsadge is dev 25

well, she just reached dev 25 today

[whole salmon]

132 reload

[scenic tendon]

yeah

[whole salmon]

No quick CV fire either

Doesn’t seem impressive as far as pvp goes

[boreal comet]

She kinda has quick CV fire

But it's just 4 fighters

And a strike

[whole salmon]

The conversation is about the Second

Not Kear

[boreal comet]

[whole salmon]

The Second doesn’t have 4 Fighters or quick fire CV

[boreal comet]

She has seaplanes?

[whole salmon]

She has Fighters but only 3

[fickle echo]

She doesn't even have ghost aux gun lmao

[whole salmon]

I remember the copium Tenrai Shirakami Fubuki

Good days

[boreal comet]

Old man

[whole salmon]

I remember when I was really surprised at fun slots for frontlines

Then the devs slap us in the face with a Rikka and 5 aux slot

Then now stuff just doesn’t seem as interesting in comparison

[stable dawn]

waiting for kitakami that has 5 torp slots

[boreal comet]

And a skill where all charges reload simultaneously

[torpid shuttle]

holy moly

the new meta means that i dont have to wear manjuu in pvp anymore

holy based

less swapping

[stable dawn]

inb4

manjuu kear

[deft escarp]

That's kinda insulting to Monarch considering that she at least had some usage back then

[valid oxide]

Manjuu NJ or manjuu kear is the question

[zenith lantern]

Whichever one you pick for your fleet

It's hard to find room for both

[brazen socket]

Cough kearsarge can equip it so theres a chance cougj

Is Monkey the highest wr rn?

[zenith lantern]

Noone knows, the meta hasn't settled down yet

If you're using triple torp you pretty much auto win vs any of the old meta fleets. so few people have even started using Jintsuu Meta let alone Kearsage that everything new has a super high win rate

[torpid shuttle]

before kear, i kept reading stuff like
"Manjuu NJ is troll because it's RNG"
"Manjuu NJ is good because PVP's RNG"

so here now i decide fuck all that

i just have to get black torps and jinmet max 😭

[light crystal]

I run Manjuu on Ancho like any sane person would.

[wicked surge]

imagine still running anchor

[light crystal]

Why? Kear/NJ/Vanguard work

[zenith lantern]

Everything with torps works right now because the old meta fleets are free wins

But Musashi is better than NJ and (without having seen much Kear yet) Hiryuu seems essential.

[light crystal]

Musashi better than NJ? What

[zenith lantern]

Come on that's not exactly controversial

[stable dawn]

inb4 Aoste uses purple gun or PR triple 410 on her

[zenith lantern]

MK7 (on Musashi)

[steel coral]

I like the idea of Van/Kear/Seyd

[zenith lantern]

I'm really hoping Seydlitz can work but I don't think she will. You can't fit Fortune Meta in that fleet when you need her without removing Felix.

Just in case there's any doubt that the old meta is dead here's our testing of the Chinese ENVY fleet attacking against the old meta fleets

And this is old meta fleets attacking. Old Hymen vs Hymen with Jintsuu, Shima and Fortune and MSN and 3BB vs ENVY (with Noshiro as 3rd VG)

[wicked surge]

So keary good?

[light crystal]

That's the first I hear about that. When I fight enemies, their Musashi is not exactly the msot threatening backliner in my opinion, either.

[zenith lantern]

Probably, there's not enough testing on Lexi yet with Kear to say

[zenith lantern]

Sounds like you've not even been playing the same game as everyone else.

[trail temple]

Have you been on Washy lately? I have been levelling my ships and still win with no major issues

[deft escarp]

Triple 460

[light crystal]

Explain how she's superior, and what gear you're using when making the claim, then.

[stable dawn]

95% of washy fleets are pve geared lmfao

but once in a while you run into someone like Butte Lorde or Amatir and have to look at the screen

or if you're using triple BB, JC Denton

[zenith lantern]

You can check the guide in the pins for gear. And look at the damage numbers after battles to see how she performs.

[stable dawn]

[trail temple]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-ash-ketchum-throw-hat-anime-gif-17669418

[light crystal]

[deft escarp]

She's more tanky and barrage hits vanguard more consistently

[neon bronze]

:catpopcorn:

[light crystal]

Not sure I like this name or w/e, but I guess I'm a Volcano 🐒

[torpid shuttle]

musashi kill vanguard better but nj cos of 457 kill backline better

or smth like that right

[stable dawn]

the other option was Virgin

[trail temple]

I did drop NJ

[zenith lantern]

Musashi just kills everything, her lightning destroys backline just as much as vanguard

[stable dawn]

it's true. I see her regularly 1-2 tap enemy Aquilas from full health lmao

[deft escarp]

Lmao yeah

Why not try Musashi yourself if you're doubting her capabilities

[fickle echo]

Can't wait until they release Yamato and Aoste says she's bad

[torpid shuttle]

well yea musashi dmg big

but i meant NJ has a chance to outdmg sometimes

[torpid shuttle]

im gonna try the ancholess vanguard reccs later

[pseudo copper]

Much better tbh

[stable dawn]

already updated

[pseudo copper]

[valid oxide]

Deathkt back from the dead

[whole salmon]

Why did you immediately trust us when we said Fortune Meta is good but when we said Jintsuu Meta and Musashi are super good then you suddenly doubt us lmao

We do pretty much the same testings for all ships

Even more so for Musashi and Jintsuu Meta

[light crystal]

The claim that Musashi is better than NJ, I have skepticism about

As for Jintsuu meta, I just didn't know about her at all

[stable dawn]

how does it feel to be a virgin enjoyer?

[light crystal]

😭

[whole salmon]

In Kear NJ Vanguard comp

Kear doesn’t buff NJ

NJ doesn’t buff Kear

In which case just swap one out for Musashi

[light crystal]

Musashi doesn't buff anyone either

[whole salmon]

Kear’s USS requirement only buff CV which is irrelevant in 3 BB comp

[stable dawn]

NJ gives Kear 5% DR

[light crystal]

Weird argument

[whole salmon]

[valid oxide]

Doesn't kear already have a DR of her own?

[stable dawn]

which means Kear takes 25% less damage from shells

still notable

[whole salmon]

That’s why Aldarn said Musashi is better than NJ in this case

Vanguard Kear doesn’t get stuck with 2 457

But you know what else does get stuck? Vanguard NJ

This means MK4 Vanguard is needed

[stable dawn]

I actually mentioned this a while back

mk4 vg is the way to go

[whole salmon]

I thought Borgar already mentioned this in Sheet

[stable dawn]

the gear setups are separate from the fleet setups

[light crystal]

No it doesn't, all three have 457, and Vanguard always shoots first while at middle

[whole salmon]

You have no idea what getting stuck means

[light crystal]

[whole salmon]

Vanguard and NJ with 457 have their firing time super close that Vanguard would delay NJ’s firing time

I thought this was already brought up ages ago

[stable dawn]

it's because of how the game works for BBs

[whole salmon]

Literally a year ago

[stable dawn]

or really anything

[whole salmon]

We talked about how to avoid Musashi getting stuck

And now we talk about how to avoid Vanguard NJ getting stuck

That’s why MK4 Vanguard is used pretty much everywhere

Aside from people completely oblivious to the stuck mechanic ofc

[stable dawn]

what should we even call it

I feel like getting stuck is too long

and a bit of a misnomer

[whole salmon]

Stuck Mechanic, cba finding another term

[stable dawn]

how about

trample

because that's essentially what it is

[whole salmon]

Trample Mechanic?

Sure

Yeah it fits

[stable dawn]

trampled the other BB

ez

[valid oxide]

JiM unzen harb or JiM harb nosh

[stable dawn]

I'll add it to the glossary

[whole salmon]

Test it out for us

I’m interested in the results

[torpid shuttle]

pretty w naming

[valid oxide]

[torpid shuttle]

what abs cd?

same as pve right

[valid oxide]

At least give me a method

[torpid shuttle]

there's abs cd and something else

[whole salmon]

Fight a strong fleet or at least a strong enough fleet like 10-15 times and see if you win the majority of it or not

[torpid shuttle]

gun lock is PvE specific i think

well that is bullshitting

gun lock exists as 0.3 seconds, abs cd is 1 sec in pve tho

[valid oxide]

I gave up on this season PvP while getting new ships levelled, I will be so low ranked that there won't be a strong fleet

I'll be lucky to fight anything stronger than mafia

[winged depot]

musashi is better than nj

what is this hate

[torpid shuttle]

it's one person

[winged depot]

bro's in denial

[torpid shuttle]

but yeah this stuck mechanic

isnt it literally absolute cooldown

[whole salmon]

Yes

[torpid shuttle]

then just leave the name as abs cd

[whole salmon]

I did mention it was abs cd already

Calling it stuck mechanic makes more sense in this context

[stable dawn]

we could also just call it "jammed"

trample or jammed?

[whole salmon]

Jammed then

[stable dawn]

jammed kind of implies they stop firing, which is not true

[winged depot]

delay

[torpid shuttle]

jammed makes more sense within bb guns

[stable dawn]

trample makes more sense from a logical standpoint because it's like one BB steps on the other's foot

but it doesn't stop them from walking per se

[torpid shuttle]

sounds pepg

[stable dawn]

pvp is pepg

[whole salmon]

Thank god Kear is slow enough

[stable dawn]

I'll just use Jam because it's short

ez

[whole salmon]

Vang and Kear can still run 2 457 right

Without jamming

[stable dawn]

they should

[whole salmon]

Since Kear is super slow

[stable dawn]

[torpid shuttle]

kear's as slow as duke of york so

[whole salmon]

That’s good at least

[whole salmon]

Well the first test is usually the speed requirement

Which is 144 speed total after beaver is applied

Or an average of 40 speed before beaver is applied

[whole salmon]

Tho there is actually a range, having too much speed might be bad

[whole salmon]

So your comp here would need a lot of speed items to meet the requirements

[torpid shuttle]

on noshiro harb reccs

[whole salmon]

Jintsuu M, Unzen, Harbin would need 28 extra speed (So around 3 Boilers and 1 Kicks)

Jintsuu M, Harbin, Nosh would need 17 extra speed (So around 1 boiler and 2 kicks)

[whole salmon]

So the speed rec is easier to be achieved with this

Which frees up slots for black aux

That’s one of the main advantages of Shimakaze and one of the main disadvantages of Unzen

Unzen is super slow which takes up slots for you to put in boilers etc

While Shima is super fast while also buffing speed of other ships, making her meet the req easier

[whole salmon]

Jintsuu Shima Fortune for example doesn’t require any Speed item to meet the speed req

[stable dawn]

gotta go fast

[neon bronze]

in Monkey (Sushi - NJ - Kear) comp.
What guns do they equip

356 sushi - 457 NJ - Mk4 Kear?

[hollow walrus]

isn't Kear slow enough that you can go 457 on Kear and not have her fuck over the cooldown of the other BBs?

[torpid shuttle]

said a ton of times alrdy

[neon bronze]

would prefer to sync tbh... dunno the reason though.

Brain empty

[pseudo copper]

It's Aoste

You expect anything better?

[winged depot]

[trail temple]

While I am not trying to clown on the guy, he has been using mafia for a year while others have moved on. The fact that he can claim it still works (up until recently) means one of two things:

1. He's intentionally using bad fleets as a gauge of what is and isn't good; or
2. there are no good fleets in washy to test against, meaning anything he says, while with good intentions, is not representative of other servers.

[fickle echo]

Doesn't Aoste overcaps a lot meaning he doesn't get to fight high ladder players that much?

[trail temple]

I'm running a lv115 fleet in washy

It unironically does fine fwiw

I do need to reset against certain people but other than that, nothing too stressful

[neon bronze]

washedington ded server?

[lusty hill]

he's fighting the conspiracy

[hollow walrus]

which is deader, Washy or Sandy?

[neon bronze]

sandy, not much 2590s there
washy has one ol'burger camping at around the 2590s, plus some visitors sometimes

[stable dawn]

actually it's
3. He has not done serious bagging for almost the entire year, with the exception of one recent season

and during that season they changed their fleet

so

well let's see what happens once people start adopting torp comps

maybe it's time for Yakuza II???

[deft escarp]

Delay mechanic

Since the salvoes aren't really being stuck but rather delayed due to absolute cooldown

[ocean quest]

blacktorp farming is a really fun experience

174 keys with 2x oil for 36 blacktorp prints so far

[brazen socket]

Cuck

Cuck and getting cucked is right there

Smh

[trail temple]

30 keys down, 30 torp prints

[ocean quest]

[valid oxide]

Shit I forgot I needed to grind for blacktorp

[deft escarp]

[valid oxide]

I did 8 runs with high efficiency plans Nd now I have no moral

[neon bronze]

get other feet

fleet*

[valid oxide]

Oh yeah with which vanguards should flag use WNT, if any in current meta

Also is manjuu NJ real now or still meme

[wind orbit]

always has been

[neon bronze]

when in doubt. manjuu anchorage

[valid oxide]

I'm not gonna be using anchorage half the time now though

[neon bronze]

trying torpmeme?

[valid oxide]

Yeah

I intended on either torp meme or fortune torp meme

Just wanna get my backline equips sorted

[neon bronze]

then sure, manjuu nj. gotta have some invul just in case

[valid oxide]

Also I decided against unzen, too much work to get decent speed

[neon bronze]

heard torpmeme needs some resets, but even with these resets it should be really fast

[valid oxide]

Oh yeah about this too

Should I WNT flag or just use it as a hiryuu stat stick since I don't have feather

[neon bronze]

hiryuu

forgot my homework

[valid oxide]

These should be fine right? I don't think I'm missing anything too outrageous

[neon bronze]

yeah

[zenith lantern]

Depends what you're facing. Against traditional fleets no resets needed. In a mirror match against other torp meme fleets then you'll have to reset more often than you're used to.

[neon bronze]

[zenith lantern]

which is where Fortune comes in

[valid oxide]

I'll probably have to reset more often with my cope no shima fleets

[zenith lantern]

Unless they also have Fortune then you might want Ancho instead of Fortune but we're not totally sure on that one yet

[neon bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/tsubame-gaeshi-fate-stay-night-gif-19709049

[boreal comet]

Badass animation but wtf did I watch

[tacit ferry]

Ain't this fate

Worst anime of all

[hollow walrus]

UBW best anime

[wind orbit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3soDAtIxz0

[tacit ferry]

5,6/10 🔥🔥

[deft escarp]

Zero*

[wind orbit]

weird way to spell kaleid

[serene epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/kissing-gif-20150608

[torpid shuttle]

i rly had to reset once

[ocean quest]

torp magic

oh ur on washington?

[brazen socket]

You would have been absolutely fucked if it werent for the fact they were handicapping themselves with nagato and warspite

[torpid shuttle]

i actually cant run any T0 fleets atm wtf

still lacking on kear and shima

[ocean quest]

hymen with torp vanguards is still really really good

and if ur on washy theres still like no torp comps running

havent met any past season

[torpid shuttle]

wow really

im washy

trol

[ocean quest]

yea same

[torpid shuttle]

.

since they have shima, i wonder if they opted trolling

[ocean quest]

only one ive seen was from borgars but he was running a meme version

[torpid shuttle]

probably just dont play game

[ocean quest]

maybe no pve grinding

and troll defense

[torpid shuttle]

yes

[ocean quest]

but i dont think theyve ever placed high

[torpid shuttle]

i stop playing pvp after aotn

[ocean quest]

I need rank 1 someday

for my ego

but ill need to beat borg

[torpid shuttle]

no ty

if ego means sandbagging during my exams

no ty

[ocean quest]

if u ever meet my def lemme know

overcapped today so ill be rushing

[zenith lantern]

Hymen might be t0 tbh, the tierlist isn't settled. Hiryuu's combination of hidden + invun is really, really strong right now.

[torpid shuttle]

i'll try it in some time

[scenic tendon]

Looks pretty identical to my fleet.

Although I'm going mid Hiryuu with WNT

[whole salmon]

The weird thing about torp comp is that

Even if they have a clapped backline

As long as the frontline is strong enough

They can still rng their way to force a reset out of you

[lusty hill]

that's me cuz I have no shima

[deft escarp]

Just raise Fortune Meta

[ocean quest]

thats because we're twins and besties

[neon bronze]

gaming

[scenic tendon]

Get R1 and try to talk to me later.

Noob.

[ocean quest]

relax

[scenic tendon]

Aldarn's mafia got my team down to a single NJ

[stable dawn]

[trail temple]

It's okay, he hasn't gotten a 2600

[ocean quest]

has there ever been a 2600 on sandy

[trail temple]

Uhhh, if there was, not for a long time

Maybe that one season where everyone was over 2600

[stable dawn]

login bonus season

[scenic tendon]

Soon.

[trail temple]

End of the year soon?

[scenic tendon]

Just have to tryhard Lex.

Don't you know that I have a Lex account?

[trail temple]

In the same manner as Kirito, I'll await the day with anticipation

I do

[scenic tendon]

[trail temple]

I saw your screenshot with Aldarn in it

[scenic tendon]

Thanks, Andy.

I reached R5 once.

The same season I reached R1 Sandy.

[scenic tendon]

Can I call you Andy? Or is there any name you prefer?

[trail temple]

Andy is fine dude

[scenic tendon]

Sure, Andy, I'm 1tonight of the Sandy. Nice to meet you.

Although I don't really like Sandy...

Damn I forgot I have my image perm banned for a month.

Lel.

[ocean quest]

[scenic tendon]

The fourth Horseman, Dejwid on the Pale Horse.

[neon bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-cat-angry-cat-crazy-cat-small-cat-gif-27448311

[boreal comet]

Definitely not one of mine

[torpid shuttle]

where's the ultra stall ancho juneau fortune meta comp

[ocean quest]

i think aoste ran something like that

but then

[deft escarp]

@scenic tendon How ready is your torp meme comp?

Because I kinda wanna try something

[hasty urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[scenic tendon]

You meet me?

[deft escarp]

If I do meet you

[scenic tendon]

Not ready lol

[deft escarp]

[scenic tendon]

Lex or Sandy tho?

[deft escarp]

Sandy

[scenic tendon]

Sure

I'm leveling up some ships

[scenic tendon]

How about the current def fleet?

[deft escarp]

Current defense fleet?

What ships?

I'm working rn so I can't check

[scenic tendon]

Was asking in case you had fought my fleet before...

[chrome vessel]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[neon bronze]

depends on your preference

i still not have jintM raised and mlb'd, sucks

[trail temple]

I just went balls to wall with torp aux

Pearl on Shima

[neon bronze]

just ask someone else, i don't have the relevant experience for new torpmeme

[wind orbit]

You don't, badge and Shima skill is enough to reach the range.

[scenic tendon]

Good subs for Shimakaze?

[valid oxide]

Harb

[foggy whale]

Noshiro

[scenic tendon]

Herb.

[scenic tendon]

[misty cosmos]

Unicorn's heal makes me want to rip my face apart

Like their vanguard somehow becomes like Senator Armstrong and just doesn't die

[neon bronze]

pvp?

[pseudo copper]

[stable dawn]

just kill her with torps lol

[pseudo copper]

Have you been hit by FT's torps?

[stable dawn]

yes, and now I'm in a hospital

[pseudo copper]

[brazen socket]

I believe this is a skill issue

cause how are you losing bc of unicorn heals

[misty cosmos]

Tight match up

ran out of refresh

[whole salmon]

Show fleet

The daily reset just started

How are you out of refreshes so soon

You aren’t tight for time either

[serene epoch]

Show fleet, let the council of cock decide your fate

[neon bronze]

probably just casual fleet vs waifu def fleet

[whole salmon]

From past screenshots, seems like a new player

[neon bronze]

who would've known the arts of espionage assist greatly in internet discussions

[misty cosmos]

Well, ever heard of misdirection?

Definitely not a new player

[ocean quest]

that looks like a new player

[stable dawn]

explains how you can lose to unikai

[pseudo copper]

Nah, obv a fossil with those ships

[ocean quest]

[whole salmon]

Well sure idk if you were new or not but you were still on w7 last month. That is considered “new” for me

Well anyways yeah that fleet is terrible for pvp

Check the guides in pin

[valid oxide]

Honestly losing in PvP is a skill issue

[deft escarp]

@whole salmon Would a bunch of rainbow AA guns be able to fire twice before planes reach the end screen with fuel?

[whole salmon]

Normally no unless they are using Flapjack then probably yes

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

That frontline either has no speed or no damage

[deft escarp]

He probably didn't have Shima

A week or two after Shima release she'll probably be there

Man

Is stall comp dead now

[stable dawn]

been dead since JintM came out

[deft escarp]

Been thinking about making one but it either has like no damage or not enough mitigation

Best one I could think of would be Seydlitz, Hiryuu, Musashi backline with a Felix and other ships on vanguard

[whole salmon]

There’s always a powercrept Amagi

Giving evasion rate to backline and debuff to enemies’ damage would be big yikes to this comp

[stable dawn]

powercrept lusty
preload airstrike
gives shield to vg AND backline

[deft escarp]

I thought Amagi wouldn't be enough

I'm gonna ask this guy to make this torp comp as best as he can

He already has the ships barring Shimakaze which should rerun very soon

Hiryuu, Amagi, Musashi could work ig

[whole salmon]

She isn’t enough

That’s why I said a powercrept version

The concept of her kit by design is enough but her numbers are low

[deft escarp]

Ah

How important is Shima btw on vanguard?

[whole salmon]

Having Shima or not determines how much speed items you are willing to spend

[deft escarp]

If your vanguard has no dmg, would Musashi be good enough to eliminate torp comp?

[whole salmon]

Jintsuu M Unzen Harbin likely wouldn’t work

Either you dedicate damage to it, meaning it has no speed

Or you dedicate speed to it, meaning sub par damage

[deft escarp]

I mean against a proper torp comp

Like Jintsuu Meta, Shima and Harbin/Jintsuu/Noshiro

[whole salmon]

In order to reach 40 average speed with that comp, you would need around 28 extra speed

So 3 boilers and 1 kicks

And then 1 more slot for Pearl

And oh wait, 5 slots of frontline is gone

You can’t even use black torps

[whole salmon]

It wouldn’t work

Anything slower than 40 average speed would get shredded by Musashi

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

Or even worse, if you run full damage with that comp, it might get killed by Rocket Planes by Aquila, now that’s cringe

[deft escarp]

So having high enough speed would mean that Musashi wouldn't be good enough on her own to deal with vanguard

[whole salmon]

Musashi would still shred frontline

Just not as reliably

[deft escarp]

Oh

[whole salmon]

Below that then she would just wipe you out in 1 barrage

[whole salmon]

Especially when this comp is slow af

Unzen’s 24 speed is big yikes

You are better off with a Noshiro in that slot

If you don’t have Shima

[deft escarp]

Against a JintsuuM/Shima/Jintsuu comp Musashi by herself wouldn't be enough, no?

[whole salmon]

Of course not

Jintsuu M Shima Jintsuu has more than enough speed

Shima has speed buff for allies as well

[fickle echo]

It doesn't even need to be Musashi

[deft escarp]

So ig I need dmg on vanguard as well

[whole salmon]

Torp frontline can’t be build tank

If your torp frontline is slow, you are better off running Anchorage

[deft escarp]

I'm talking about stall comp vs torp vanguard

[whole salmon]

Stall comp usually we don’t have to bring up such issues

Because everyone builds boilers on stall comps

That’s basically a given

But on torp comp, usually it is a trade off of speed for damage

[fickle echo]

Even if you stall the torps you'll end up leaving the enemy ships alive to launch again

[whole salmon]

But ofc if you have Shima, there’s no issue

[deft escarp]

Would an Anchorage and Fortune Meta vanguard work?

[whole salmon]

Jintsuu M Shima Fortune/CL can easily pass the speed requirement

[stable dawn]

ancho and fortuneM is zdps

[whole salmon]

But if you switch out Shima for an Unzen, then the fleet becomes pepega

[stable dawn]

but it works for Aoste so good enough

[deft escarp]

[fickle echo]

The new mafia

[whole salmon]

It is kinda difficult to recommend Unzen as substitute for Shima tbh

[deft escarp]

Yeah ik

[whole salmon]

When Unzen doesn’t quite fill Shima’s roll in pvp

At that point you might as well run Ancho Jintsuu M Juneau

[deft escarp]

What of Anchorage, Fortune Meta and Shima?

[stable dawn]

yeah that's why I didn't even put her on the sheet outside of new player comps who literally don't have anything better

[whole salmon]

Also if December’s slot is a UR DD with slashes to clear torp

[stable dawn]

Laffey II hype

[whole salmon]

I would be laughing my ass off at those who didn’t grind OPSI for Jintsuu M

[stable dawn]

inb4 she's just a gun DD

[deft escarp]

I'm speedrunning her rn

[fickle echo]

Unzen is so slow the only way I ever saw she working was paired with Shima

[stable dawn]

[deft escarp]

Also, anyone tried Naganami in torp meme yet?

[stable dawn]

you get stomped on by old aggro comp

and CVs

[deft escarp]

[fickle echo]

You made the same question before

[deft escarp]

There's too much pressure on stall vanguard ig

[stable dawn]

tbh vg damage is so high now I've given up sustained dps on my backline and just went back to yakuza

[whole salmon]

Don’t worry

[stable dawn]

can't lose to stall if your enemy is dead by 20s

[whole salmon]

The devs will readjust the meta in a year at most

So we don’t have to wait for long

When in doubt, trust the IJN

[stable dawn]

perfect time for JintM to rerun

[whole salmon]

[fickle echo]

"adjust"

[whole salmon]

Currently it isn’t full Japanese fleet yet

[fickle echo]

https://tenor.com/view/random-bullshit-go-moon-knight-random-random-bullshit-gif-25725102

[deft escarp]

Nagato retro where

[whole salmon]

So it will be full Japanese eventually

[foggy whale]

As a maidenless Shimaless player I tried Unzen, she dies too easily too

[deft escarp]

Fortune Meta just took Juneau's place

[whole salmon]

Cus it is pvp, everything loops back to the Japanese

[deft escarp]

We went from Juneau, Azuma, Yukikaze

[whole salmon]

Remember when Italians were meta

[stable dawn]

pvp is a toxic gamemode

[whole salmon]

Now we don’t have a single Italian in sight

[stable dawn]

we have a history of toxic game mechanics

[deft escarp]

To JintsuuM, Shima, FortuneM

[whole salmon]

[stable dawn]

enty duels

[whole salmon]

Like remember before Italians

[stable dawn]

eldridge invuln

[whole salmon]

The meta was 6 IJN ships

[stable dawn]

hiryuu 15s

[whole salmon]

We are slowly looping back to that era

[stable dawn]

warsnipe

[deft escarp]

6?

[stable dawn]

torpmemes

[deft escarp]

I thought it was 5

[whole salmon]

Yeah full 6 IJN ships

[deft escarp]

[stable dawn]

preload percy

italians

NJ

shima

[whole salmon]

Nagato Shinano Amagi/Hiryuu, Noshiro Naganami Jintsuu

[stable dawn]

musashi

[whole salmon]

Some others are Azuma and Yukikaze

[deft escarp]

Oh fk

Lmao

[stable dawn]

oh yeah and ancho

can't forget ancho

[fickle echo]

Not according to Aoste

[whole salmon]

Saying IJN dominated the meta was an understatement

It was literally THE meta

[stable dawn]

now we're back to torpmemes

[whole salmon]

Then Italians and USS removed IJN from the meta entirely

[stable dawn]

[deft escarp]

Wait

[whole salmon]

But slowly over time, it crept back

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

First it was Shima, kicking out Juneau in Mafia comp

[deft escarp]

Musashi, Amagi, Shinano

[whole salmon]

Then the return of Shinano and Hiryuu in Weeb comp

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

Then the introduction of Musashi

[stable dawn]

all they need now is a vg that makes your backline invuln as long as it's alive

then torpmemes is dead

[whole salmon]

Now we have went fully circle back to comps being 50% IJN

[deft escarp]

Yukikaze retro

[whole salmon]

A few more patches and we might get 100% IJN

[fickle echo]

You forgot VG replacing Veneto

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

[stable dawn]

yuckykaze

[whole salmon]

Italians were erased

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

So erased in fact no one bothers using Duca in torp comp

[fickle echo]

I'm the only Italian left in pvp

[whole salmon]

Even tho theoretically it is possible

Duca in triple torp should work as a substitute pick

[stable dawn]

problem is duca torps are slow

literally hard countered by fortune

[whole salmon]

Fortune is still rare

So triple torp can still work for a few more months

[stable dawn]

I already see them on washy

[deft escarp]

I'm gonna suggest the guy to replace Unzan with Noshiro

Make him the first torp meme user in Sandy

[whole salmon]

Jintsuu M, Harbin, Nosh would need 17 extra speed (So around 1 boiler and 2 kicks)

And Pearl as well

[steel coral]

only have kicks and wirbel luft

good enough

[neon bronze]

:catpopcorn:

[lusty hill]

Does noshiro have good damage or is she just a buffer

Noshiro has torpedo damage reduction

How come I never know she's good

[neon bronze]

All 3 iirc

[lusty hill]

should I raise my noshiro to replace ayanami or is it better to wait for shimakaze rerun

[neon bronze]

noshiro is more consistent and buffs torps

which is good in torpmeme comp

plus she isn't a wet noodle like ayanami, she has decent bulk + pvp mechanics for her hull type

[lusty hill]

but she need 3 more gold bulin which I need to mlb the tech

I'll cope with ayanami and wait for shimakaze

[valid oxide]

Aya was more cope than nosh yet for the longest time, Aya was recommended over nosh

[zenith lantern]

Me and Ari found Noshiro to be a lot better than Aya when we were starting up on Little E. Aya’s too inconsistent, too often she fires her preload torps into Anchorage for zero damage and then dies. Noshiro buffs your other torps and is much more likely to stick around for a 2nd launch.

[whole salmon]

Before Aya got her Aug, Shigure was even better than Aya

Aya was always cope but still popular

Due to her brand being “the torp ship”

[deft escarp]

They haven't experienced the terror of Noshiro, Naganami, Jintsuu comp

Now that I think about it, maybe I used Noshiro, Ayanami, Shigure comp before lol

[deft escarp]

Maybe this guy's fleet isn't well equipped

Already won 3 times over him with my updated fleet

[stable dawn]

17.3k fp on main

the ones I've seen have around 19k, granted I probably have more tech
so for you would be low 18k or so

[deft escarp]

Ah

Maybe the FP is just right

My fleet tech is pretty low I think

[hasty urchin]

Shimakaze in Everyone's Fleet

[trail temple]

I'd say it's not fully equipped either

[stable dawn]

nah even super low fleet tech wouldn't make a difference that large
my login warrior alt on amagi turns 18.8k fleets into 18k fleets roughly, and you definitely have more tech than that lol

[pseudo copper]

It's a few hundred yeah not a few k

[zenith lantern]

It’s definitely under equipped. My Lexi fleet with the same comp has 16.9k FP for the vanguard. My Little E of Ancho, Jintsuu M, Harbin has 15.1k with no Shima so it’s closer to that.

[ocean quest]

tech affects fleetpower?

[neon bronze]

Tech isn't counted in pvp matches but it still affects the fleet power numbers you see

[ocean quest]

thats why my fp was so low

[lusty hill]

Is it worth it ro grind tech to scare the newbies

[pseudo copper]

People see your fleetpower based on their tech

[lusty hill]

That doesn't make sense

That's like their power is based on my progression

Imagine if pvp is like that

Opponent ships is geared the same as the ships in my dock

[pseudo copper]

Fleet tech has no effect on pvp outside fleetpower being different

And that is client side based on client tech

Opponent having same gear as you means it is down to flip of coin + you have attacker advantage anyways

[whole salmon]

@stable dawn CN testings on Kear is done, what they found is:

• Spotting is useful against Hiryuu type comps since the side that spot Hiryuu first has a higher chance of winning since it usually comes down to Invul duels
• They have a weird impression on Kear's rocket planes due to low hit rate against fast frontlines. Kear does have very good potential of anti frontline but the hit rate is unreliable. He also noted that the 0 luck of Kear and the low damage against Heavy could also be noted as shortcomings
• They prefer Tiger Cat on Kear, they dislike Flapjack due to its slow speed
• They do run Manjuu on Kear, their comp also includes Hiryuu
• Oh and he also noted that Kear is slow enough that you can get away with both Kear and NJ running 457 without jamming

They do conclude that Kear has good potential on defense

[neon bronze]

video or some cn website blogpost?

[whole salmon]

Gathered from the same dude who did CN wiki on his bilibili thing

[neon bronze]

so rafff

[whole salmon]

Yes

Other testers are still high on Jintsuu Meta

[stable dawn]

Monkey is meta bois

🐒

[whole salmon]

They are testing the Kenny comp from the guide

[stable dawn]

[whole salmon]

They might test other comps over the next few days to weeks

Tho it seems nice that EN side is still heading towards the generally correct direction of the meta

Cus currently idfk where JP is heading

[stable dawn]

use vanguard

[deft escarp]

It's 18.3k now

[valid oxide]

In JiM harb nosh is harb sandwich or off-tank?

[neon bronze]

sandwich if you want her there because she's squishy
offtank if you want jintsuuM and noshiro torp buffs on her
she takes the pearl's tears (unless if you have other plans) on account of her squishiness + lack of shimakaze so put her where you're comfortable using her with

[valid oxide]

Noshiro torp buffs aren't based on torp launch though, no? I thought they just flat buffed

[neon bronze]

let me read 4 a while

[deft escarp]

I know Jujintsuu

And I call this technique the torp chamber

[neon bronze]

Increases the DMG this ship deals to enemy CVs and CVLs by 5% (20%). While this ship is afloat: increases the TRP of your Vanguard by 5% (20%). Also increases Vanguard's Crit Rate by 3% (12%) starting at skill level 7.

alright

[deft escarp]

Maybe I should try Anchorage, Shima, Fortune Meta

I could try out Naganami once I have her raised

That torp salvo at 10s may be able to play around Fortune Meta's slash

[zenith lantern]

Scary that I’m agreeing with CN . MK Hero best backline. Next thing Quyet will post a video on it too

[fickle echo]

Wait until Aldarn gets 3 CV'd by CN again

[deft escarp]

Imagine Nagato also buffed TRP

[stable dawn]

Nagato META when

[zenith lantern]

I didn't think 3 CV was going to be good. But someone had to test to confirm

[steel coral]

MSN poggies

[valid oxide]

Just got my first blacktorp

Just 2 more to go

[light crystal]

[lusty hill]

that skin is cute

[scenic tendon]

The best thing about it

Is her hair

Anyway its getting dirty

[flint python]

Am I and Nard the only ones using jintsuu meta in Amagi lol

[stable dawn]

pvp is dead

[lusty hill]

What is the deadest server

[pseudo copper]

Sandy followed by Washi

[gritty cove]

I refuse to believe Sandy is dead

[ancient raptor]

As a Sandy player i can confirm it is

[pseudo copper]

As an AL player I can confirm it is

[stable dawn]

[valid oxide]

I don't have her mlb yet

Also I want at least one more blacktorp before making the switch

[deft escarp]

Zemn

Conan's Musashi is using 410 instead of 356

[boreal comet]

Why have you returned

[pseudo copper]

I've always been here bro

[boreal comet]

[deft escarp]

@whole salmon Btw, how's Vanguard in place of NJ?

Currently using Vanguard, Hiryuu, Musashi, Anchorage, Shima, Noshiro rn

[neon bronze]

copium, have tried that in the past when my Meeb didn't steamroll every fleet

[deft escarp]

Zemn

[ocean quest]

do you not have harbin at least?

[deft escarp]

I have her

[ocean quest]

why noshiro then

[deft escarp]

I'm using Noshiro to buff Shima's trp

[ocean quest]

have you heard of jintsuu meta

[deft escarp]

Anchorage is there to stall a bit while Shima and Noshiro torp the enemy

[deft escarp]

I don't have her rn

[ocean quest]

[deft escarp]

I'm also using Vanguard without WNT to make enemies take more dmg

[zenith lantern]

The main problem with Vanguard is she's squishy. She's great against CVs though because of her high AA and CVs mean less early incoming damage.

[ocean quest]

get to the grind for jintsuu meta before she disappears for a year

[deft escarp]

I'm only using her rn to buff torp dmg

Maybe I'll have Hiryuu flag and use NJ

Gonna raise Naganami as well to try stuff with her

[zenith lantern]

WIthout JintsuuM torps are unlikely to be enough to carry a fight, your backline does the main work

[deft escarp]

That s1 seems kinda interesting

I just need to +13 my Tenrai as well

[ocean quest]

why not just harbin..... her torps are okay and she has smoke

[deft escarp]

Gonna ask Conan if his 457 are both +13 along with teatorps too

[deft escarp]

Just theorizing with her s1 giving her another torp salvo at 10s

Since she launches torps while Anchorage doesn't have her smoke

It may not be good enough vs Fortune Meta since her slash cooldown is 10s

[stable dawn]

Like 2-5 people per server use Fortune META right now

[valid oxide]

I'm pretty sure I can get fortune meta up and running faster than I can get JiM mlb and fully skilled

[flint python]

are you assuming naganami lives to proc her 10s skill

[whole salmon]

Copium

You lack manjuu

[deft escarp]

I have it on Anchorage rn

[whole salmon]

More copium

[deft escarp]

Currently using Vanguard, Hiryuu, Musashi, Anchorage, Shima, Noshiro

[whole salmon]

That looks like a budget standard fleet more than anything

[deft escarp]

What do I replace here then?

I'm on my way to have Fortune Meta raised and still have yet to get Jintsuu Meta

And I'm only at 50 bps for Kearsadge

[whole salmon]

Run MSN

[deft escarp]

After I raised Fortune Meta I just stick to it until I can get Jintsuu Meta right?

[serene epoch]

Vanguard to NJ or Kear
And Noshiro to Juneau Kai if no JintME/FortME/Harbin

[flint python]

just focus getting jintsuu meta first

[whole salmon]

Jintsuu Meta is more important than any copium stuff you listed

[deft escarp]

Dem

[whole salmon]

Without Jintsuu Meta, stick to old comps

Don’t bother

[deft escarp]

It's gonna take me a month or so to get her

Hopefully I can get my Tenrai +13 by then

[deft escarp]

@scenic tendon

[scenic tendon]

Tell me the result then

And you rolled me at the wrong time lel

I will get my hand on jintmeta next reset

[deft escarp]

Now I just need to raise my Jintsuu Meta

[scenic tendon]

No

[neon bronze]

who is this jintsuu meta

[scenic tendon]

You need more than 20 days

[deft escarp]

Your mom

Lol

[neon bronze]

and why my fleet only deal 400k dmg against her

[scenic tendon]

No way Beth is a floofs son?

[deft escarp]

I know Jujintsuu

I call this move the torp chamber

[fickle echo]

How? Even my LE fleet deals at least 600k

[scenic tendon]

What, you guys are doing dmg to her?

[deft escarp]

Huh

Ig she'll be useable by the start of next month

Gonna stick with MSN for now ig

[neon bronze]

jk, i deal around 750k w/out helena scans and 1m with the two crucial helena scans

Lack fleet tech and plane enhance levels

[wicked surge]

I didn't wanna change my eagle gear for her so I only do 800k

[scenic tendon]

okay

Keasarge is good.

got a 1.2m dmg fight from using keasarge

dev 26

[neon bronze]

☕

[scenic tendon]

I moved

You can eat the bonus now.

[serene epoch]

lel

[scenic tendon]

Finally

Jint 6*

And I just realised I have my image perm banned for a month

[polar crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/bocchi-the-rock-nijika-nijika-bocchi-the-rock-bocchi-the-rock-gif-nijika-btr-gif-27231010

[stable dawn]

[severe spindle]

Opinion of this fleet, its good?

[pseudo copper]

Reiver is a cheater

[severe spindle]

Wdym ?

[scenic tendon]

He cheated on them

[severe spindle]

So that explain the insane amount of torps that destroyed my vangs secs after starting battle

[whole salmon]

Jintsuu Meta’s effectiveness has been proven via numerous testings across EN servers already so it is safe

It is also backed up by testings of CN servers. JP server then only a few people have tried it so idk

Basically her torps is good, her torp buff is good, her survivability is okay. She enables Shima to be extremely offense focused and you basically win via constant torp wave spam

[hidden robin]

forgot to use 5 tickets again

f***ing 10 ticket cap

[rustic bridge]

[fickle echo]

SaltyBelfast is back

[valid oxide]

Everyone is back

[scenic tendon]

@deft escarp feel free to be walled

I mean, testing

[trail temple]

He's as much of a cheater as you are

[neon bronze]

real gaming

new meta, gotta change and raise jintM-chan

[scenic tendon]

-chan?

[steel coral]

you raise levels, I raise families

[neon bronze]

Fair, i've never found much time to level up my ships

[rustic bridge]

I never Gone

Muhahahaha

[scenic tendon]

You taste salty.

[pseudo copper]

Naturally, still on 1 each

[scenic tendon]

Is the new Houston 2 good for pvping?

[lusty hill]

use houston 2 to flex your opponent potentially make them scared

[stable dawn]

Use Houston 1 skin on Houston 2 for maximum deception

[scenic tendon]

Essex's sleeping

Time to do something naughty

[lusty hill]

[lusty hill]

Is golden hind good for pvp

[neon bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-boner-dick-pp-hard-boner-cat-horny-gif-22689656

[scenic tendon]

@valid oxide you can use AvP or Ark Royal

[valid oxide]

For what

[scenic tendon]

For your lack of Implacable

[valid oxide]

Already use avp

[fickle echo]

Talking about PvE in #pvp smh

[scenic tendon]

Idk

I tried 2 wyverns implacable

[golden lantern]

is there a new meta nowadays?

[neon bronze]

all involve jintsuu meta in one way or another

[golden lantern]

so without the that ship u cant get into top 10 or?

[whole salmon]

Getting high ranks is dependent on how you play, not necessarily what fleet you have

Having a strong fleet certainly helps

But it is still down to how you sandbag

[golden lantern]

does this still work?

[scenic tendon]

sure