pvp

[whole salmon]

After concealment update, Richelieu replaces Warkai

Riche Amagi Warkai can spot CV with fixed barrage and burn damage

Then as more UR BBs get released, they slowly phase out the old ones

[hollow walrus]

When did comps become made that emphasised less on sniping Enty

[whole salmon]

When people stopped using Enty

Nagato Amagi Hiryuu counters this comp quite easily

Have Hiryuu top, Amagi bottom

VH Amagi

And some Rudder

And Warkai can’t snipe as effectively

[valid oxide]

I was gonna say warkai is pretty decent but then I remembered every fleet I used her in also had musashi

[deft escarp]

Those were pretty popular back then iirc due to Hentaiprise hitting extremely hard

[hollow walrus]

Hmm when did comps that de-emphasized sniping Enty start happening

[whole salmon]

When people realized Enty isn’t that strong

Except for some people here still high on copium

[pseudo copper]

This is ALO, they rely on guides that old

[whole salmon]

Enty was quite clapped during the snipe era and the ijn era

Ijn fleets is faster than her, snipe comp counters her

Basically there’s no place for her

[hollow walrus]

what type of ship would be necessary to bring back a full preload team as on top

[whole salmon]

Unless you were a certain cheater back then

Using 61k HP Enterprise

[hollow walrus]

I am curious how the fuck is that possible

[whole salmon]

Or was it 72k

[pseudo copper]

72k

[whole salmon]

I forgot, it was something ridiculous

[whole salmon]

Here

[brazen socket]

IJN CV that mega buffs shinano and hiryuu

or shinano and musashi

and is very tanky

though at that point, a full preload wont be needed

[whole salmon]

Something that counters a stall frontline reliably

[brazen socket]

I don't think theres even a ur bb or cv that has a preload

[hollow walrus]

damage reduction/barrier/shield pierce

[whole salmon]

The issue is that currently, if the frontline stalls enough

The backline can just out dps you

This is what the devs had in place to kill torp meme

Multiple items and ships were released that can just tank and tank a whole lot

[brazen socket]

shimakaze would've just been disgusting if the devs hadn't emphasized on cucking torp meme

[whole salmon]

Yeah she would have

Shimakaze was kinda released in the wrong era, after torp meme was fully killed

So her impact is still big but still contained

[hollow walrus]

so you are telling me it could have been worse

[whole salmon]

Not like the Noshiro Nagami Jintsuu era where the entire frontline crumbles in the first 3 seconds of the round

[whole salmon]

We have vids of torp meme days

[brazen socket]

people got so desperate to counter it they started to use littorio

[whole salmon]

https://youtu.be/JpBJh4IWENE

[stable dawn]

QUYET

[whole salmon]

https://youtu.be/Q67dLMv-WXk

[whole salmon]

This is when Quyet comes in handy

[hollow walrus]

why littorio?

[brazen socket]

torp damage reduc shield

[whole salmon]

At least he still has his older vids up as reference for history

[deft escarp]

Way way worse

[whole salmon]

Juneau would basically die instantly

[deft escarp]

People who complain about Anchorage are just entitled af

[whole salmon]

But without Juneau, your entire tank frontline would die instantly

[stable dawn]

818 Akaga

[whole salmon]

The only ship that wouldn’t is Yukikaze due to rng from skill

[stable dawn]

No Mic

💀

[deft escarp]

They have no idea how cancer it is to constantly reset because everything dies in 5s to torps

[whole salmon]

You can’t tank during that time

[deft escarp]

[hollow walrus]

Juneau Christ

[whole salmon]

Enemy using 4 oxy torp and 2 black aux torp

They would 1 shot any CB

Or any ship for that matter

Backline isn’t safe

[deft escarp]

Yeah

[whole salmon]

We had to remove VH armor during this era

[deft escarp]

Your backline could get one shot or crippled

[whole salmon]

Due to it making our ships die faster

[stable dawn]

the triple beacon is beyond copium

smh

[brazen socket]

even now shimakaze just nukes a backline ship if the stars line enough, imagine her if torp meme wasn't neutered

god

[hollow walrus]

Someone said Littorio was a desperate attempt against torp memes

[deft escarp]

Yeah

[hollow walrus]

what were other ships used as desperate copium

[whole salmon]

It doesn’t matter if the torp frontline is paper if it killed everything 3 seconds into the fight

[deft escarp]

Yostar went out of their way to kill torp meme

[whole salmon]

Yostar did so much stuff to kill torp meme

[deft escarp]

It's a blessing to have Anchorage rn

[brazen socket]

anchorage truly shifted the tides

[whole salmon]

Fights at leasts now usually last longer than 20 seconds

[deft escarp]

Also people who don't have Anchorage have no excuse because she's permanent content

[stable dawn]

VH armor hiryuu. Now that's OG.

[whole salmon]

Also those vids

[hollow walrus]

Hoshi were there other ships used as desperate anti-torpmemes?

[whole salmon]

That wasn’t even torp meme when it is at its peak

They are still using IJN Quad torps in those vids

[brazen socket]

I'm not sure if any other ship had it outside littorio

[whole salmon]

Since the cancer than is MKIX hasn’t been released yet

I don’t have vid of that but it was even worse

[deft escarp]

I quit around that time so I didn't see it firsthand

[brazen socket]

Cause other options that were releasing torp damage reduc or shields were the ones controlling the meta by that point and were not desperate

though ironically, said options were also italian

[deft escarp]

Just the quad mags were already cancer enough

[whole salmon]

I mentioned it before but here

This is the list of what they did

They did a collection update, introduced more items there

And you notice, they all had pvp related skills

That was their effort to kill torp meme

[hollow walrus]

you think they'll add another item to shift the meta once again?

[whole salmon]

And they killed it for good

[stable dawn]

are you saying the devs used to care about pvp???

[deft escarp]

I quit around the time they introduced Nelson flag iirc

[stable dawn]

[whole salmon]

It was 2 years ago now tho

[brazen socket]

The only other item that I could even think to shift meta is an item that would introduce anti heal

[whole salmon]

They stopped caring since

[hollow walrus]

anti-Juneau

[stable dawn]

they cared enough to make Musashi's stealth mechanic not apply

[deft escarp]

Anti heal would just have Harbin replace Juneau

[brazen socket]

yeah and that still would stall

inb4 an item that cuts through smoke

[hollow walrus]

imagine if it did

[stable dawn]

Yakuza would finally be T3

[hollow walrus]

nah we need a damage pierce ship

[stable dawn]

[whole salmon]

Back then we also only have 1 VH Armor

And luckily the era of VH armor has passed

Cus I don’t want to face 3 VH armor ships with Hood gun

[deft escarp]

It was commonly used on Amagi right?

[whole salmon]

HPFCR was also rare back then

Only 1 was available I think

We used it on Nagato and not Amagi

[deft escarp]

VH Armor but it makes the ship using it have light armor

[whole salmon]

Since Fallen Wings only ran 1 time on EN

[deft escarp]

[hollow walrus]

ERA

[whole salmon]

Pvp was wonk and weirdh

However what is certain is that

[stable dawn]

can you imagine if UR Table was actually as strong as HPFCR was back then

[whole salmon]

No matter what ship is available or not

[deft escarp]

Most meta ships back then were event locked too

[whole salmon]

Pvp will always find the best fleet

[deft escarp]

Now you can easily get like 4 meta ships

[brazen socket]

Inb4 they introduce an item that makes bismarck meta

[stable dawn]

gearing is ironically a lot more accessible than before

[whole salmon]

So removing ships and items wouldn’t work, a new meta would form and that is basically it

[deft escarp]

Or 5

[brazen socket]

Item gives her damage pierce and 15% damage reduction

[hollow walrus]

from the looks of it seems like pvp nowadays is more accessible to people

[deft escarp]

Juneau, Harbin, Anchorage, Hiryuu and FdG are permanent content

[hollow walrus]

top tier pvp used to be very gated?

[whole salmon]

So all of this about “let’s ban Anchorage, Shima, Juneau, Musashi, NJ, URs, DRs, etc” just feels hella cringe

Since it simply makes pvp more gated

[brazen socket]

Yes, before if you werent a boomer you were screwed

[whole salmon]

If you didn’t play during events, you simply have nothing

[stable dawn]

let them mald. It's ALO after all

[brazen socket]

EN had it hard cause you only got ONE chance at hpfcr pre-pr3

[whole salmon]

Yeah

We only had 1 chance at HPFCR

1 chance at VH armor

457 takes forever to get

[deft escarp]

Precisely

[hollow walrus]

Also I don't get the "Ban Anchorage and Juneau"

They're very accessible

if you don't have them then why

[deft escarp]

Ikr

People clamoring for this are stupid lol

[brazen socket]

They just want torp meme back

Thats it

Lmao

[deft escarp]

Back then you gotta cope for the events to come back

[whole salmon]

Torp meme currently is gated

Black aux torp isn’t available for those who didn’t play event

You are stuck with the new USS tech tree torp or Quint Rainbow Mag

Either way, clapped

[deft escarp]

Wait for ISSS for Nagato, Swirling Cherry Blossom for Amagi

[pseudo copper]

Guys, can we ban Haku?

[stable dawn]

they'll delay it going to war archives by another 2 years so we can instead get...
white torp

[deft escarp]

Then grind for FdG and Azuma

[brazen socket]

En anni should hopefully have percy event archived so we could get perma black torp

[pseudo copper]

ALM says she is good

[hollow walrus]

Wait how do people actually get 18k+ FP in pvp

[deft escarp]

We had no research queue back then too

[pseudo copper]

20k is ez

[deft escarp]

So you gotta constantly check your phone for new research

[whole salmon]

I’m also waiting for War Archive stuff

More black aux torp is appreciated

[stable dawn]

You didn't grind 8 copies during the rerun???

[whole salmon]

Nope

I only have 3 but uses only 2

[hollow walrus]

don't they put event unique items into core data shop as well?

[deft escarp]

I only have 2 lol

[pseudo copper]

I have 2 and use 2

[hollow walrus]

so like mass buying of black torps seems to be possible once the event is archived

[deft escarp]

I came back in the middle of the event when it first ran then grinded my second copy on rerun

[brazen socket]

A gear that makes your enemies torpedo non magnetic

[whole salmon]

Also btw

[stable dawn]

idk, what does white torp do???

[whole salmon]

I remember spending 600 cubes for a Nagato that refused to drop

[deft escarp]

Non magnetic with +100% crit rate and crit dmg

[stable dawn]

maybe it's like white shell but idk what that does either

[whole salmon]

Cus back then I didn’t want to get gated

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

Turns out to be one of my better decisions

[deft escarp]

LOL

[hollow walrus]

increase torp crit damage

[whole salmon]

Cus Nagato was indeed quite a gate

[deft escarp]

Yeah

Not having Nagato is like not having Musashi these times

[hollow walrus]

hold on. If I actually started playing seriously back when I started this acct, I could have actually gotten black torp

[stable dawn]

20% to faction stats
fun and balanced

[brazen socket]

610 torpedo meta

[hollow walrus]

Because I started January of that year

[deft escarp]

Remember when Shiden Kai was bugged?

[neon bronze]

i only farmed one black torp when the percy rerun happened

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

Holy

That stuff was hella cringe

Shiden Kai was best fighter for a time

Instantly kills an entire airstrike

[hollow walrus]

wait how was it bugged

wait what huh

[whole salmon]

Your planes couldn’t even reach the other half of the field if enemy has Shiden kai

[hollow walrus]

wait why was the Shinden bugged>

[stable dawn]

wasn't its AA off by a factor of 10 lmao

[hollow walrus]

OH

LMFAO

wait by 10??!?! lmfao

[neon bronze]

that's broken as fuck

[stable dawn]

they patched it within the week iirc

[whole salmon]

https://youtu.be/FxIqgEDgS_0

ALM made a vid of it

[stable dawn]

back when ALM was up to date with the game

[whole salmon]

Shiden Kai can kill an entire airstrike

If both sides have Shiden Kai

[deft escarp]

Shiden Kai was bugged in that it had insanely high intercept dmg so your airstrike dies to a Shiden Kai intercept

[whole salmon]

In an Enty 1 v 1 situation

[neon bronze]

even Hiryuu + Shinano airstrikes?

[whole salmon]

Fight legit might not end

[deft escarp]

[hollow walrus]

So nobody gets to attack?

LMFAO

[neon bronze]

classic RNG

[stable dawn]

PvP is a well designed gamemode

[deft escarp]

I grinded like 2 copies of it when Shinano event first came out

[stable dawn]

with absolutely no bugs, obtuse mechanics, and balance issues

[whole salmon]

Remember that time

There was a skin bug on Ardent

[pseudo copper]

Still up to date bro

[whole salmon]

Which let her corpse stay on screen

And bait all BB shots

[stable dawn]

and it could bait shots

honestly kind of wish that was a real mechanic for a ship

[whole salmon]

BBs would shoot at a dead corpse

Smh

[stable dawn]

Ardent skin def. had higher sales just because of that

[neon bronze]

unplanned p2w feature

[deft escarp]

I vaguely remember that

[hollow walrus]

what other bugs had unintentional pvp consequences?

so there's the shinden kai intercept bug and the ardent one. What else?

[pseudo copper]

According to Famine, we are all unintended bugs or smth

[stable dawn]

You can argue the current meta is just because CV stealth mechanic is borked

[deft escarp]

Oh yeah

[stable dawn]

turns out not revealing the enemy is just better because you can focus down targets

[deft escarp]

I think I used the bugged Shiden Kais to cheese my first clear of world 12 that time

[whole salmon]

https://youtube.com/shorts/O6Myx0ocd9g?feature=share

[hollow walrus]

just fix CV stealth mechanic by giving every backline stealth mechanic smh

[stable dawn]

but that's not historically accurate

🤓

[candid sluice]

72k bug was pretty wild

[hollow walrus]

But but w14

[stable dawn]

was the 72k enty a bug or an exploit?

[whole salmon]

72k HP Enterprise was wild

[hollow walrus]

smh they should add the w14 mechanics to pvp

5min fights kek

[whole salmon]

I think it was exploit

[stable dawn]

they should add subs too

[pseudo copper]

Where are my USS DD bullying Japanese BB/BC?

[whole salmon]

StaagPrince replaced regular Enty with story mode Enty or something

Leading to that Enterprise dealing no damage

[stable dawn]

the DDs are all MSGK ofc

[whole salmon]

But also having 72k HP

[hollow walrus]

So no damage Enty but pure tank instead?

[pseudo copper]

She did same damage as regular Enty

[stable dawn]

was stagprince banned eventually?

[pseudo copper]

No

He got warned to stop it or smth

[stable dawn]

yeah I do remember him getting warned

[whole salmon]

https://youtu.be/A-n5ULTvAY4

https://youtu.be/FUloH6Lqj44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGjV2swHSRg

[hollow walrus]

fr tho it would be funny to see what would happen if w14 style mechanics got added

give frontline concealment

[whole salmon]

Juneau healed Enterprise for 18k HP

[neon bronze]

[stable dawn]

fun and balanced

[hollow walrus]

wait is this how you guys knew it was exactly 72k?

[deft escarp]

[neon bronze]

juneau heals ships by a percentage of their hp

[hollow walrus]

oh right

I forgor

[neon bronze]

by 25%

[lusty hill]

How does that enty works?

Bug or cheating?

[hidden robin]

probably cheating

in Avrora i also noticed some mfkers have their HP aux on but their damage output was high af

but i simply couldn't prove them cheating.

[uncut agate]

Bug, yostar acknowledged that bug and warned him not to use Enty to sour other people's experience in PvP

[hidden robin]

really?

couldn't find it in #known-bugs

guess they're afraid that people may take advantage of it.

[uncut agate]

#pvp message warn mail , i misremembered maybe

[stable dawn]

yeah Avrora is full of cheaters in pvp. Especially that NoobAsian guy.

[junior beacon]

There's so many grammatical errors that I can't believe it's real

[flint python]

Musashi welcomes Kearsarge to triple BB colorized

[gentle mirage]

Is there an updated excerise fleet list for good setups?

[pseudo copper]

That's how you know it is real

[pseudo copper]

Check pins, Salty message

[gentle mirage]

Gotcha, just making sure nothing changed sense i took small break

[brazen socket]

when will the higher ups include gridman fleet for pvp sheet smh

[hollow walrus]

it's already there tho?

[brazen socket]

Oh

smh gotta check before saying stuff

[flint python]

they placed it low

conspiracy time

[brazen socket]

Are the higher ups hiding this super secret broken tech

[whole salmon]

More so the devs nerfed the comp

[brazen socket]

Wait what

[whole salmon]

A translation of the post

“The misfiring bug has now been fixed. The attacking side's win rate dropped to 77%.
4 sets of data: 10-5 12-3 14-1 10-5, the fluctuation becomes more obvious after the survival pressure comes up, and the winning rate in a single round will be as low as 66%, which is very embarrassing.”

That is the CN test against MSN, the previous win rate before the bug fix was 90%

[brazen socket]

So funny robot no more make shots disappear?

[whole salmon]

It let to Mecha being able to tank less

Leading to higher pressure from the enemy

[brazen socket]

Thats a shame, no more funny robot meta

[candid sluice]

propaganda from the higher ups mecha still meta

[whole salmon]

So the “higher ups” in this case are the devs

Straight nerfed the comp’s survivability

There’s still ways to make it work but it isn’t MSN level

[neon bronze]

T2 fleet now

[flint python]

which is why I just run burst mech

[whole salmon]

Tbf for someone without Shima and Aquila/Shinano for example

Then running Gridman comp still works quite okay

It is a good enough budget that’s worth considering

[winged depot]

petition to rename the gridman comp to Unultraman

[valid oxide]

But hiryuu also exists

[neon bronze]

He hasn't logged in for 10 days now

[stable dawn]

UNULTRA finally retired?

[neon bronze]

[light crystal]

For PvP, wuts gonna be the best setup for Kearsarge?

Also, if u put this on Kearsarge and she on middle, does it nerf her own dmg or wut?

[fickle echo]

[tacit fox]

is gridman better than the meta fleets which use ayanami as a replacement for shimakaze?

[fickle echo]

Ayanami is bad replacement for Shimakaze, she dies way too early and can't do anything else if her torps miss at the start

You're better off using 2 CLs with some speed gear

[valid oxide]

Harb nosh

Or harb Juneau for stall

[fickle echo]

Ayanami as a Shima substitute is a plot from the higher ups to make newbies unable to defeat their fleets

[tacit fox]

damn, i've been psyop'ed

alr thx

[light crystal]

I run both

[stable dawn]

[valid oxide]

You should also run Percy Aquila chise as your backline

And replace ancho with noshiro

[flint python]

Mafia gud!?

[trail temple]

That cheater is on Washington bro

[lusty hill]

Ayanami as shima is not that bad, I used it most of the time and can get consistent win against most fleet that isn't yakuza

if anything it's the higher ups that underestimates ayanami

[valid oxide]

I'm not a higher up

And Aya was genuinely worse than noshiro

And felt more cope than warkai

[lusty hill]

The higher up have brainwashed you

[hidden robin]

Aya back then can nuke the backliners to death, not sure now though.

Aya just has worse survivability than Shima.

[valid oxide]

Now she dumps preload misses and then dies

[trail temple]

Serenity used Aya to beat Famine, Aya is good confirmed

[rustic bridge]

Eat Shimakaze

[trail temple]

Enterprise is gonna get stronger bro, you ready?

[gentle mirage]

Enterprise retro 🙏

[trail temple]

Let's not put poor Saltybelfast in a coma, Let's get him used to Kearsarge strengthened Enty first

[rustic bridge]

My Bismarcks kill enty

[flint python]

[rustic bridge]

My PvP Back Line

Enty Killer fleet

[trail temple]

What's beating you this time?

We need to see the epic battle of Salty Belfast vs Famine

[rustic bridge]

[valid oxide]

Eat miyuki meet

[empty mesa]

No Bisco gun?

[neon bronze]

if it works, it works

[autumn quest]

Is it my best possible fleet if i dont have sashi and shima and how are their gear ? I dont have any black torpy and angel's feather

[valid oxide]

Use USS magtorps on Harbin, make Juneau off-tank, make hiryuu flag with WNT

Also your vanguard AA guns are cursed

I run sexy on ancho and Juneau and staag on harb

Also give fdg the same secondary as NJ unless you have a plygun for her

[neon bronze]

i don't think they even have plygun prints

All in all, not a bad fleet

[valid oxide]

I've ran a worse fleet before so it's fine

[neon bronze]

It can be better

[valid oxide]

My harb gear is still arguably worse than theirs because I do not own an oxytorp

[autumn quest]

Should Harbin still have pearl ?

[neon bronze]

can run these, hiryuu top/bottom and hiryuu flag
no uss magtorps in fleet maker (), you can run it in place of quad mag for juneau
bb guns are whatever, can use double 457, can use 457 and geo gun. might matter to some, but you can run some fights to see it for yourself

[flint python]

sg radar

[hidden robin]

delicious Hit, why not

[autumn quest]

Thx and btw why should Harbin still have pearl when she's in the middle ?

[hollow walrus]

isn't fairy magic better than these 2?

[neon bronze]

she is discount shimakaze

[neon bronze]

i doubt he was active when fairy poster event was ongoing

[hollow walrus]

you usually run pearl on your middle vanguard

[neon bronze]

and i don't like pearl juneau

[hollow walrus]

he has. i remember he was active in gph asking at the time kek

[autumn quest]

When was the event ?

If it was in end 2021-2022 i dont have it

[autumn quest]

Fuck i cameback 2 weeks after this event ended

[neon bronze]

currently these are the suggestions for Hiryuu's aux gears

[hollow walrus]

Ah. Then if you don't have it then SG radar really is your better option then

[hidden robin]

man hope there's a good-for-pvp NP girl soon

[hollow walrus]

Soyuz

[hidden robin]

i'd prefer a good NP vanguard

[neon bronze]

ALM has one russian fleet, maybe you can run it

[hidden robin]

i won't put that poster on Soyuz

[autumn quest]

Idk if i should put hiryuu flag with WNT or not

[neon bronze]

it depends, some people prefer hiryuu flag, other people prefer hiryuu top/bottom
performance is similar so use what you prefer running

[trail temple]

[autumn quest]

btw can this fleet carry me to R1 ?

[neon bronze]

rushing, yeah

[autumn quest]

i'll try going for it next season

[zenith lantern]

Hiryuu flag is fine. None of your BBs benefit from flagship so go for it. Usually it’s just Musashi that forces her to the sides

[autumn quest]

[valid oxide]

I use musashi and I still use hiryuu flag

[pseudo copper]

ALM fleet and pvp, pick one

[autumn quest]

i forgot to ask but between ancho and juneau,who should get my only sextuple and what the other should get for AA ?

is staag fine ? @neon bronze

[hollow walrus]

Imo Anchorage sextuple and Juneau can have the roomba

if you only have 1 sexy

[steel coral]

[deft escarp]

@whole salmon Imagine old PvP meta with 3 VH armor, all on Amagi, Hiryuu and Azuma

[severe spindle]

Does Ayanami is better than kawakaze with aug?

[neon bronze]

kawakaze w/ aug isn't written in the bible yet

aya is fine, though her performance is rng
yukikaze is fine and preferred for some as prefereence to recommend to beginners

[pseudo copper]

both copium imo

[severe spindle]

I dont have Shimakaze

[pseudo copper]

Use Harbin + Juneau

[neon bronze]

harbin is your best option

[pseudo copper]

Or if no Harbin use Ykkz

[light crystal]

[pseudo copper]

Aoste

[light crystal]

Will NTR you

[fickle echo]

Aoste

[stable dawn]

[light crystal]

[pseudo copper]

Aoste is gay?

[light crystal]

Canon likes white haired girls.

[neon bronze]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758215756990906398/836778582071705610/image0.gif

[pseudo copper]

So you like white haired guys

[light crystal]

Where u get that from, when there's two guys in the game so far, and the rest girls, is out there

[pseudo copper]

Not just 2

[meager oak]

....wait wait wait Harbin works better than Aya?

[valid oxide]

Harbin gets more than 1 torpedo launch so yeah in most cases

Whereas Aya preloads, misses, then dies

[pseudo copper]

Not just that

Better in every other aspect lmao

[valid oxide]

Same difference

[pseudo copper]

Difference is 1 torp launch more doesn't make a diff

Also what is with the slow realisation that Harbin is better, it is in the docs

[valid oxide]

You mean only shown in MSN as a better alternative

Where every other fleet reccs Aya as a shima alternative

[pseudo copper]

Should be all ngl, Aya cope is too cope

[valid oxide]

Agreed

[autumn quest]

Does nano really require two 13+ wyvern ?

Another question how does harbin compare to shima ?

[whole salmon]

If you want Shinano to be on par with other fleets of that tier then yes

Or at least 1 of them at +13

Otherwise you are better off with a BB

Shinano has and always will be a massive investment

[neon bronze]

2 wyverns, 360 plates of investment

Each

[whole salmon]

Harbin currently competes with the off tank role with Juneau. Shima occupies the middle slot

If you have both, there’s no need for them to compete. Can just use both of them

If you don’t have Shima then you can cope as a substitute

[whole salmon]

It is always nice to get 1 Wyvern to +13 anyways

If you ever plan to use other CVs like Aquila or Hiryuu, they would also prefer to have that Wyvern

Think of it like a super long term investment if you are interested in this game mode

[neon bronze]

@whole salmon worth raising third wyvern for meeb?

[whole salmon]

Currently no

Just don’t use Meeb

[neon bronze]

[whole salmon]

Tho I do know a lot of people with 3 +13 Wyverns

Including myself

It was during Weeb fleet era to compete with Mafia

[neon bronze]

now meeb... still strong but easily countered now

[whole salmon]

Weeb fleet still requires the most investment

[neon bronze]

Yeah NJ wants 457

[whole salmon]

3 Wyverns, 1 Tenrai, 1 457, 1 Table

[valid oxide]

Okay but sushi wants a plygun

So meeb

[whole salmon]

Ply gun doesn’t have the priority of upgrade compared to 457

[neon bronze]

Musashi uses 410kai so still less investment

[whole salmon]

That’s why I don’t mention Drake gun in all of this

And the UR DD gun

Or UR AA guns

[neon bronze]

As NJ would wanna use tashgun (maybe, then) and 137 (now)

[whole salmon]

They are still considered lower priority

[neon bronze]

Edges out

[whole salmon]

Well there is a fleet that requires more

But that’s a special case

[valid oxide]

Which one

[whole salmon]

The triple CV comp of CN

[valid oxide]

Oh CN fleets

[whole salmon]

At least Wyvern was a better investment than

The MK7 used on VV and later on Seydlitz

And now is never seen again

[meager oak]

What dev minimum for Harbin to replace ayanami?

[autumn quest]

better use hiryuu instead until nano got a 13= wyvern?

[neon bronze]

wait is that the anti 3BB one or something else

[hollow walrus]

isn't that the akaga + Luna one

[neon bronze]

30

[meager oak]

25 won't cut it?

[autumn quest]

[hollow walrus]

you really want PRs to be dev30 at minimum

I guess the more tank oriented PRs can be slightly useful at below dev30

[meager oak]

.....I uh used ancho at dev 20.....

[neon bronze]

Which is fine, Ancho is usable at around dev10 here

[whole salmon]

There’s some stuff you need to keep in mind

If you are using Ancho and Harbin before dev 30

That is their reload stats are lower

Which would affect when their smokes are proc

Which would greatly affect their survivability

So use the appropriate torpedoes for those timings

[flint python]

people started using ancho any dev level back then lmao

[meager oak]

Is it not possible to stagger their proc?

[whole salmon]

Ofc having Ancho is better than no Ancho

[flint python]

I used her dev 5 and she carries vs mafia

[whole salmon]

And the thing is that back then a lot of people don’t have Ancho

Now dev 30 Ancho are the norm

Going up against it would still prove an issue

[meager oak]

I don't run much into ancho at amagi anyways

Lots of shima tho

[whole salmon]

But the torp thing is still important, keep in mind the timings

You might proc smoke after the CVs sent their airstrike

[hollow walrus]

without dev30 isn't Harbin also lacking a decent amount of her damage?

[flint python]

what rank are you lol

[meager oak]

how do I avoid getting blasted out of existence

[whole salmon]

Ofc you won’t run into strong fleets if you are of lower ranks

Which is fine, if you don’t aim high then there’s nothing to be afraid of

Just fight fleets you can beat

[meager oak]

Rear adm

[hollow walrus]

What does your fleet look like

[whole salmon]

How many tickets left

[flint python]

[meager oak]

10

Wait tickets?

[hollow walrus]

attempts

[whole salmon]

Like how many attempts left

Also that frontline is oof

[meager oak]

Oh yeh then 10 sorry

[hollow walrus]

yeah that frontline is ded

[whole salmon]

I think some people here can have 10k with only 2 ships in frontline

[meager oak]

Ayanami is bare naked

[hollow walrus]

level advantage is big

[flint python]

I wanna test vs gridmeme def but only 2 people run it in amagi lol

1 of them is me

[meager oak]

I used to run my OpSi BB fleet

[hollow walrus]

you should probably focus on leveling the frontline you have now because level advantage is massive

[meager oak]

All I'm seeing are boomers with 18k-15k damnit

[neon bronze]

Level up your fleet first, then tackle the gears

[scenic tendon]

just some free points

you have MSN, try to get better gears and Harbing to replace Ayanami and everything will be okay

[autumn quest]

Should i start using shinano over hiryuu when she has at least one 13+ wyvern ?

@whole salmon

[whole salmon]

Tbf for Hiryuu you also need the Tenrai as well

[autumn quest]

Not 13+ ?

I got 2 tenrai

10+ tho

I'm 13+ gold planes first for pve

[autumn quest]

13+ required like shinano ?

[whole salmon]

Not as high of a priority as the Wyvern but the Tenrai is also quite important

CVs are just high investment in general

[light crystal]

Wut Fighter on Kearsarge you'd say. Pancakes or Tigercats? I'm leaning on Pancakes.

[stable dawn]

Kear has 200% fighter efficiency right? Might as well go Pancake for insane crash dmg.

[light crystal]

[neon bronze]

[ocean quest]

would you rather run hiryuu or haku without shinano

[neon bronze]

Hiryuu no contest

[ocean quest]

should she run wnt if no shima

[neon bronze]

If she's flagship, definitely

If you want to run BB flagship, give the flagship a WNT and give Hiryuu an Angel's Feather

Hiryuu comps nowadays generally have WNT active regardless of Shima

[whole salmon]

@light crystal @stable dawn I was going to say just use the one with the higher crash damage but then I found an unexpected issue with Kearsarge

[stable dawn]

[whole salmon]

You know how in pvp we use either Aviation Fuel or Aviation Oil Tank to keep planes alive from enemy AA?

This is a common practice on CVs for a long time now

But Kearsarge would be running HPFCR and 1 HIT/EVA item

[light crystal]

She would alucnh planes 20s into the battle anyway

AA would be thinner

[stable dawn]

[whole salmon]

So would the planes even matter if the enemy AA shoot them down immediately

[light crystal]

Like I plan to run her middle, with Beaver/HPFCR

[stable dawn]

in that case we could put something really crazy like a super fast fighter just to proc her burn effects

[whole salmon]

So yeah that’s the other solution

[stable dawn]

the question is how fast?

[whole salmon]

Like aside from AA

There’s still stuff like Wyvern etc

[stable dawn]

she needs USS gear though

[light crystal]

If using Beaver, I'd rather put HPFCR over Jetfuel. My guess is it's fine

[hollow walrus]

the fastest fighter is USS

the skyrocket

[stable dawn]

no bombs, just speed

[hollow walrus]

oh right yeah it doesn't have bombs

[valid oxide]

Fastest USS with bomb is bearcat iirc

[flint python]

id just run my pancake with avgas hpfcr

and pray it works

[whole salmon]

“Increases HP of Carrier-based aircraft by 140. Increases flight speed of Carrier-based aircraft by 5.” is the effect of Aviation Fuel.

Fighter’s speed and HP comparison

• Pirate: 130 HP, 49 speed
• Tiger Cat: 156 HP, 52 speed
• Sea Hornet: 146 HP, 60 speed
• Pancake: 182 HP, 42 speed
• Bearcar: 140 HP, 50 speed

Tiger cat still looks the most balanced

Without Fuel, Pancake might be too slow

But even then, this still seems kinda rough

Missing the HP increase from Fuel hurt a lot

[stable dawn]

wait only 182? Are these level 1 stats lmao

because a +13 pancake should have 1049 HP

[whole salmon]

@stable dawn I took from wiki

[valid oxide]

You need to change to max stats iirc

[whole salmon]

I get what’s happening @stable dawn

182 is the base for all, it then scales depending on CV

[stable dawn]

oh whoops

[whole salmon]

Since my Wyvern on Shinano has diff HP from my Wyvern on Chise

Both at +13

[whole salmon]

So this is still accurate

Just that it scales differently depending on the CV

[whole salmon]

Tho Pirate Squad is actually an okay option ig?

When it proc, it already boost AA of fleet

Whether it survives or not doesn’t matter

[flint python]

bruh in game info misleading

"equipped aircraft"

[stable dawn]

[whole salmon]

Plane health has this formula
floor: (max_HP + (hp_growth * (ship_lvl - 1) / 1000)) @stable dawn

[whole salmon]

This seems to only be the max HP stat

[whole salmon]

My Chise is only level 121

[stable dawn]

oh so it doesn't buff base HP?

[whole salmon]

So ig that make sense

Mhm does Fuel buff the max HP value or the total plane health?

[stable dawn]

if it's base it'd be kind of nutty lmao

[whole salmon]

If it is total plane health

Then ig we could prioritize a faster plane for Kearsarge

Sea Hornet seems okay for this case

[hollow walrus]

She does lose 30% reduction to first airstrike without a USS plane

Depends on how important that would be

[neon bronze]

so squishier kearsarge

[valid oxide]

Wdym squishier kear

[neon bronze]

wait i misread

brain empty rn

[valid oxide]

My brain empty too

I used to use warkai in PvP

[hollow walrus]

Actually would the 30% cooldown reduction for you 1st airstrike if equipped with USS planes change the choice tho?

[whole salmon]

Normally it would but

It depends on the fleet you are running

If you don’t have a CV then yes

If you have a CV, you might be able to cope with having your CV’s airstrike tank the bulk of the AA

[hollow walrus]

How much would you need to gimp the CV's plane loadout tho for the CV to launch at the same time as Kear?

[lusty hill]

Is it possible to get aotn without sandbagging?

Or maybe just getting a bonus twice a day

[whole salmon]

Not a lot tbh, Aquila can do it already

Kear with Sea Hornet still take 21.93 seconds to launch

Trying to time Kear’s planes before she fires her guns also seems unlikely

[valid oxide]

Chise bf109g skyraider wyvern should sync with it assuming chise has goldburn equipped

[whole salmon]

The timings seems too close, shells would arrive first due to slower plane speed

If the plane would even arrive at all

Since at 16 seconds, enemy’s AA have nothing to fire at

So all of it would be concentrated on Kear’s planes

You could say you let her slot planes tank the AA

So the planes on her barrage can apply burn

Which is a decent strategy

[pseudo copper]

Thorin made one with level scaling for us including barrage planes

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/wiki/User:Ymiros/Sandbox#Plane_HP

Pancake is 1049, Tigercat 899, Hornet 842, Bearcat 810, Corsair 750

[whole salmon]

Does Fuel add to total HP or the max Hp stat of the formula

[flint python]

av fuel works on kear or not?

[whole salmon]

Seems like still the same ratio, just scaled up

[pseudo copper]

Unsure tbh, wanna ask Thorin?

[whole salmon]

Ranking remained the same

[whole salmon]

Yeah, it seems important

[pseudo copper]

@sullen iris mind clearing it up for us

[whole salmon]

Even if it does work

Not worth using

Over the other slots

[pseudo copper]

She can equip

[whole salmon]

HPFCR and Beaver still gets higher priority

[pseudo copper]

But I see no reason to

[flint python]

Id go hpfcr + treaty

[whole salmon]

Wait

[whole salmon]

Kear’s barrage planes only have 536.924

Devs, wtf

[pseudo copper]

Yeah, sad af

[whole salmon]

That’s kinda sadge

[pseudo copper]

50 speed, though decent crash

So possibly use Tigercats instead of Pancake tbh

[whole salmon]

50 speed seems okay

[pseudo copper]

Same speed as regular bearcat

[whole salmon]

Pancake is slower even with Fuel

Just that the HP stat is mbruh

[pseudo copper]

130 less than Wyverns

[whole salmon]

That’s around the Hiryuu Kai barrage planes

Hiryuu Kai barrage planes are 554.072 and 48 speed

And we all know those are mbruh

Shinano’s is 540.524 and 60, quite okay

[hollow walrus]

How long till people can test her out at dev30?

[whole salmon]

Might take a while but

The plane HP scales on ship level

And skill level

[flint python]

1-2 months maybe

[whole salmon]

Unrelated to dev level

What her planes are now are basically what they would be at dev 30 survivability wise

[flint python]

can someone post kear enhanced barrage compared to nj if anyone have numbers

[hollow walrus]

Let me check the barrage datamine

[whole salmon]

I only brought up the Fuel thing

Because we have tried some similar stuff in the past

Like using Chikuma or Shirakami Fubuki to spot

[hollow walrus]

On second thought opening sites on phone is

[whole salmon]

And then we realize that the planes are too paper to do any spotting

Since it would get shot down pretty much immediately

Even Unicorn can’t reliably spot sometimes

[deft escarp]

Ah, that problem

That's one of the things I saw being a potential problem with Kearsarge

[whole salmon]

It’s not something usually discussed

[deft escarp]

Backline ships would typically want an evasion gear+offense item (fuel for CV, HPFCR for BB)

[whole salmon]

Since running Fuel has been such a common practice

That basically in every default set up

[deft escarp]

But Kearsage has to pick between those three

[whole salmon]

But then I realized

We tried doing this before

With Fubuki

With Chikuma

[deft escarp]

Eyo

[whole salmon]

And the planes dies

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

[deft escarp]

Wait

What of the pancakes though?

[whole salmon]

Too slow without Fuel

It might even take AA damage twice

[deft escarp]

Lmao

[whole salmon]

[neon bronze]

so dead fighters'

[whole salmon]

Having like 50-54 speed is good enough

[flint python]

we go rocket planes then pausechamp

[deft escarp]

Ig she could excell against triple CV (kek) or triple BB

[whole salmon]

Triple CV?

The Wyverns would destroy those planes

[deft escarp]

Would her pancakes even reveal enemy CVs with fuel?

[whole salmon]

Kear can’t intercept remember?

[neon bronze]

thought that Kear planes could intercept and make 3 BB best fleet

[deft escarp]

Wait wtf

[whole salmon]

Wait they are fighters

They can intercept

Well, not the barrage ones

[pseudo copper]

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

Unless you plan to run Rockets

Then they can’t intercept

[deft escarp]

I was talking about the pancakes

Figured that the barrage planes would basically be useless given the 580 hp

[whole salmon]

Pancake isn’t even in the equation

It might take AA damage twice and dies

[flint python]

kill their vanguard before kear launch 🧠

[whole salmon]

We fix Pancake’s speed with Fuel

But without Fuel

You are staring at a 42 speed plane

[deft escarp]

Pretty funny how restricted she is lol

[whole salmon]

It’s not something often discussed but yes

We do run Fuel on every CV for a reason

Especially now with Sextuples and UR AA guns

[deft escarp]

Since you can't toss evasion gear for survivability and also needs fuel and HPFCR but can't use both

[whole salmon]

All of which are likely +13

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

Kear’s barrage planes have like less HP than the planes on Hiryuu kai’s barrage

[deft escarp]

[flint python]

maybe can cope without eva gear with her 20% nj+5% dr

[whole salmon]

You know those Hiryuu planes that launches at 10 seconds in

That does next to nothing except die?

Yeah those

[whole salmon]

Tbh perhaps we just ignore the planes

Just run whatever and hope for the best

[deft escarp]

Inb4 someone copes by saying "throw away rudder then use both HPFCR and Fuel on Kear"

[whole salmon]

But then again, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is either powercrept before the year is over

[deft escarp]

[whole salmon]

Or if she doesn’t end up being pvp meta

It’s not like URs and DRs are guaranteed to be pvp meta

Drake, Plymouth, Hakuryuu, Brest aren’t used in pvp

Neither are UvH, Yorktown 2, Implacable, Kronshtadt

[stable dawn]

obvs you use NJ Kearsarge Aquila
since Aquila has preload and reveal, you don't have to rely on reveal from kear EZ

[flint python]

I alr said

[whole salmon]

Dropping Musashi

[stable dawn]

it's like

reverse meeb

[whole salmon]

[scenic tendon]

I hope I can...

[whole salmon]

I’m more excited for the UR in Sep than I am with Kear

[scenic tendon]

Kearsarge might be a good shop for pvp

[whole salmon]

And hopefully that UR can fix Kear

[scenic tendon]

bro

[flint python]

midway

[scenic tendon]

Kearsarge is here just to buff York 2

[stable dawn]

if USS gets a preload CV, kear ascends to godhood

[flint python]

[stable dawn]

that's all we really need

[scenic tendon]

Unicorn

[whole salmon]

Yeah it depends on if we get a strong USS CV or not

[scenic tendon]

[stable dawn]

midway cope train

[whole salmon]

So we can run Kear - USS CV - Musashi

[stable dawn]

preload with lusty shield

[flint python]

uss on jp ani

[whole salmon]

Maximum copium

[flint python]

[whole salmon]

If it is Yamato

Then Kear is dead

[stable dawn]

I'm banking on I-400

[scenic tendon]

Kear buffs USS BBs tho

[neon bronze]

i have no expectations on next ur

[scenic tendon]

but lesser buff

still decent tho

[neon bronze]

maybe if it's a busty girl not drawn by dishwasher maybe

[stable dawn]

Copium Overdose

[scenic tendon]

I'm an avg enjoyer of dishwasker

[whole salmon]

Here’s the thing right

[scenic tendon]

[stable dawn]

it's going to be dish and we're going to cry

[whole salmon]

She doesn’t

[scenic tendon]

what?

[whole salmon]

Where’s the BB buff?

[stable dawn]

kear gets 5% DR from NJ

and NJ gets nothing from kear

[whole salmon]

NJ doesn’t even buff Kear’s FP

That only applies to BBs and BCs

[scenic tendon]

I have image perm banned sooo

lmao

[whole salmon]

Where’s the buff?

[stable dawn]

why are you image banned

[whole salmon]

Just send text message

[stable dawn]

[neon bronze]

[scenic tendon]

I read it wrong tho

but a decent buff to bbs

When this ship's aircraft hits an enemy: 50% (100%) chance to inflict a special Burn ailment to that target for 10s, increasing that target's shelling DMG taken from your Main Fleet by 8%.

but like

[stable dawn]

that's an enemy debuff, Musashi gets it too

[scenic tendon]

if the airstrike can strike first

[whole salmon]

That is universal and you would just run Musashi instead

[scenic tendon]

its not stackable?

[whole salmon]

Blue gun Musashi outspeeds

[scenic tendon]

damn

[whole salmon]

And planes might not even get there due to the horrendous HP

[whole salmon]

But assuming it does manage to get there

With its 50 flying speed

NJ might already finish firing

[scenic tendon]

time to check my opponents

this is so cursed

[stable dawn]

well with what's happening now

does this mean

all of PR6 is terrible?

[whole salmon]

Some people say Felix has potential

[stable dawn]

that's more cope than Jervis

[whole salmon]

But I know next to no one relevant in pvp that has a Felix raised

[stable dawn]

who are you going to replace, shima?

[whole salmon]

There’s even an of using Flandre to counter Ancho

Which is even more copium than Felix

[scenic tendon]

people raise felix first to be the first one to comment

I need a Shimakaze's rerun

like now

I mean

later

I should buy fair wind cruise

[stable dawn]

watch the new UR be a shima counter who is also a UR DD herself

[neon bronze]

[scenic tendon]

another UR Anchorage?

[whole salmon]

You know what happens if we get another Ancho?

[scenic tendon]

why do I have to go stalling in 3 bbs

[whole salmon]

Instead of using the new one

We would use both

At the same time

[scenic tendon]

blue musashi became harmless to the vanguard

[stable dawn]

2 minute exercises

have to start rushing at 10m

[deft escarp]

Back to the old days of 2m exercises

[flint python]

full stall meta

[sullen iris]

Pretty sure it just adds to the total hp

[pseudo copper]

Thanks

[sullen iris]

Also wait wtf is that question

Why are you asking me if it increases the total hp or just the b part of the ax+b formula, what even is the difference?

[pseudo copper]

I'm guessing he wants to know if it adds before level scaling and scales with level

[sullen iris]

Yeah no it doesn't
But neither does maxhp

[whole salmon]

That’s good to know

[honest moon]

So apparently, if you defeat rogue kaiser gridman summon, you effectively take out both rikka and yume

[flint python]

yes

[honest moon]

But if rogue kaiser survives till timer for summon is up.. rikka and yume effectively come out undamaged

[honest moon]

That's a question mbad.

I finished rogue kaiser too fast so i wouldn't know

Still, meme fleet

[zenith lantern]

From what I saw the Gridman has a separate health pool to Rikka and Yume, when the transform ends though Rikka and Yume retain any damage they took before the transform happened.

[flint python]

damage Kaiser takes is split to rikka and yume after transformation ends

also Kaiser max hp is based on Rikka and Yume current hp when they transform

[honest moon]

I see