history

[eternal veldt]

Just have them form a line and go

[chilly osprey]

Yeah there's more than enough DDs to do escort

You can have the scouts and CTs go out and be aggressive

[spring briar]

Suffren is busy with Lorraine in Europe ig?

[eternal veldt]

and assuming everything goes well, then we devolve in the pure wanking that is the Littorios chasing down the IJN force with their excellent firing angles

While Richelieu just goes turbo mode and goes 32 knots to catch up

perfect franco-Italian wanking

[spring briar]

here, richie's firing angles are also perfect lol

[tough quail]

just dont tangle with inazuma and ikazuchi, cruisers famously dont do well against them

[spring briar]

BOW TANKING

[eternal veldt]

Which cruisers?

[tough quail]

exeter: fucked
atlanta: fucked
portland: fucked

friendly cruisers: probably also fucked

[eternal veldt]

Fine, then I'll bring in what scares RaiDen the most

9.2" gun from a land fortress

[chilly osprey]

The way I see it, especially if the RM-FNFL force don't have the two Duilio's, is that the light forces need to apply maximum pressure to the Japanese CAs and BBs to make up for the somewhat inferior gunpower

[eternal veldt]

Also, wasn't Atlanta more a combined effort with Akatsuki lighting her up for everyone?

[chilly osprey]

Otherwise if you do have the Duilio's you can just have one each fight a Kongo, and then one Richly/Littorio fight Nagato and then the other two focus on Yamato

[hollow wind]

I'm back

you guys are talking about Italy and France vs Japan?

[spring briar]

the way it should be yes

[chilly osprey]

A specific scenario where co-belligerent RM and FNFL forces are covering off Samar and meet the Center Force before they hit the Taffy groups

[hollow wind]

hm

[spring briar]

ok so phoe
who takes Yamato

[manic latch]

Marat

[eternal veldt]

Personally would think the two Littorios can take Yamato

[chilly osprey]

Depends on if we have the Duilio's or not

[eternal veldt]

higher barrel count to put pressure down

[chilly osprey]

That is one option

[spring briar]

richie stays at extreme range to deck punch Yamato

[eternal veldt]

time to check if the composite armour lives up to the Italian tests

[hollow wind]

Which independence war is the best for u guys

my internet connection

Ni

[manic latch]

So 3 Gangut class can beat Yamato?

[chilly osprey]

Though they don't have dye bags to distinguishing fall of shot from each other would be harder. If it's possible to coordinate a Littorio with a Richy that might work out better

[hollow wind]

Uh hm after that slight internet problen

[chilly osprey]

But splitting Yamato's fire is definitely for the best if possible

[spring briar]

richie should try to bait yammy's shot with her speed

[eternal veldt]

My question now is if Riche's all forward will come back to bite her

[manic latch]

[chilly osprey]

Ofc Yammie may just end up running from a torpedo for half the battle because of a torpedo salvo....

[hollow wind]

and make er hit the stern deck which has almost nonexistent anything thre

But has a couple secondary guns

[eternal veldt]

Assuming you cross the T, might need to turn a bit, open up the range, then do the punching again

[spring briar]

yamato's guns aren't made to get through there anyways

[eternal veldt]

Or, Yammy fucks up

and misidentifies a Le Fantasque as a CA

and starts opening up on her instead

[hollow wind]

Pretty sure air superiority would tear the Yamato after Richelieu baits her enough

[chilly osprey]

Tbh idk if it's worth the time/effort for Richy to try and deck punch Yamato

That's near effective maximum range for the battleship guns of the era

It is a 200mm deck after all

[manic latch]

How about 2 KGV vs Yamato

[chilly osprey]

May just be better for both ships to get closer and focus on penetrating vertical armor

Because these are the two punchiest 15" guns anywhere, after all

[spring briar]

yeah I was just being funny with deck punching because Mle.1943 shells anyways

[hollow wind]

just hit the command or just the boiler

[eternal veldt]

Also, phoenix, just checking

[spring briar]

they should do great

[eternal veldt]

Daytime, is it?

Italians don't exactly have a stellar record with night conditions, as far as my understanding goes

an action was called off IIRC because the CO was afraid of commencing night action

[hollow wind]

If the boiler of Richelieu is hit there goes the speed

[spring briar]

richie has illumination shells on her 152's

[manic latch]

Moonlight+ Yamato's optics

[eternal veldt]

Because if it's night action, I'd be more concerned with the Franco-Italian Combined Fleet

[chilly osprey]

Yes, though this is because;

• Prior to 1941 RM doctrine was to avoid using BBs at night
• After 1941, while it was an option, they were well aware that the British were superior night fighters for both training and equipment reasons, and did not want to put themselves at such a disadvantage

[hollow wind]

https://tenor.com/view/regia-marina-italia-ww2-italy-mare-nostrum-gif-18413166

[chilly osprey]

Against Japan and by 1944 idk if that would be the case

And Samar was a daylight fight to begin with

[spring briar]

but yeah best strat would be to get close from two directions in the same quadrant
and then just close in and try not to get hit too hard

[eternal veldt]

Yea, just throwing it out for thought, because I figure a night action might be interesting

France was expecting surprises during night action, and thus their torpedo configuration with their CTs

[chilly osprey]

I think a night action would depend on if any more fire control radars are available for anyone beyond Richelieu

[eternal veldt]

Ask the WG department to give Littorios more SG and SA radars

They gave it to Lepanto, afterall

[chilly osprey]

Gufo (EC-3/ter) can kind of do fire control but it's not going to be nearly as good as Richy's Type 284P

Gufo G.III would be a massive improvement but that's not going to be available

[manic latch]

If only Jean Bart was finished when it came to fight with Massa

[spring briar]

or
we have the Fantasques doing top speed torp runs

[chilly osprey]

But, anywho - if they can illuminate the Japanese ships, a Littorio can shoot at them

Part of what they developed in the summer of 1941, for night fights, was for the BBs to hang back and shoot at whatever the DDs illuminated

[eternal veldt]

Riche, can the La Gals 152s do illumination?

I know you said the DP 152s can do it

[spring briar]

let's see

[eternal veldt]

or I guess you could just use the existing 100mms....

[hollow wind]

ah yes pykrete aircraft carrier

What a very fucin bad idea

It may deflect the bullet

But it ain't gonna deflect the high explosive bombs and torpedoes

[spring briar]

doesn't really seem anyone knows for sure
but the shell existed
so I'll assume they had it

[manic latch]

Like Vanguard had supercharges

[eternal veldt]

It's fine, I think we can fall back to the 100mm for illumination if needed

I'm now more looking if the La Gals had FC radar by 1944

[chilly osprey]

They did not

[manic latch]

So they have nothing to offer for night battle?

[eternal veldt]

No for Le Fantasques as well, I think? I only recall SA-1 on the US refit ones.

Figures.

[chilly osprey]

You only start seeing better sets than what they initially got in '43 starting in '45

[eternal veldt]

hold on, Le Triomphant got SA-1 in July 1941?

[spring briar]

seized by the British

after Norway

[eternal veldt]

Ah, no wonder.

[spring briar]

she's Iris Libre after all

[chilly osprey]

Hmm, that's an error, she got British radars

[spring briar]

I still dream of French warships in 1943 being fitted with domestic FC radar

damn you germany

[chilly osprey]

She had Type 286M installed in May-July 1941 refit

In 1942 it was replaced by a Type 290

[spring briar]

also Phoe

it's Gloire

not Glorie

Glorie is the dutch translation

and Montcalm
not Montclam

[chilly osprey]

Did I...

I did

[spring briar]

Also Le Triomphant

[chilly osprey]

Fuck me I really need to check these more for typos

[spring briar]

L'Ardoit

[eternal veldt]

Montclam, seller of good clams

[spring briar]

I don't blame ya

[eternal veldt]

Happens

[chilly osprey]

Hilariously I spell them right elsewhere on the same sheet

[spring briar]

[chilly osprey]

There we go

[eternal veldt]

Didn't Dunkerque also get DEM, or am I mistaken?

[chilly osprey]

Just Strasbourg afaik

[eternal veldt]

Technically not serviceable

right, never mind

[spring briar]

shame that dunk and stras didn't make it

[chilly osprey]

If only the fleet had been able to stay at Mers-el-Kébir where they couldn't be remotely touched by the Axis

[eternal veldt]

Sailing to Martiniques would have been alright if you ask me

Though IIRC that option was not passed on to Darlan

[hollow wind]

Ah yes Indonesia independence war

3 times the Dutch re invaded Indonesia breaking treaties

And it's basically the Dutch version of Vietnam

And also where I live at

[chilly osprey]

But then some people had to shoot it up for the fear of Axis troops teleporting over 1,000 km from the border of Libya in under an hour and seizing the French fleet

Very rational

[spring briar]

just put everything with Béarn and emile at Fort de France

I'm sure the USN will be very happy

[hollow wind]

wow

[eternal veldt]

Wasn't Bertin at Martiniques?

[spring briar]

bertin was at fort de france

[hollow wind]

This is what happens when yo queen stubborn as hell

[spring briar]

JdC went to Martinique

also a moment to appreciate that JdC literally fixed all the issues of the DT's

on two shafts with unit machinery

[hollow wind]

No wonder the Dutch ate their own prime minister

[chilly osprey]

Hmm, so, returning the illumination round discussion

Jordan and Moulin make no mention of the use of 152mm illumination rounds on the cruisers

[spring briar]

indeed

[chilly osprey]

That said the CTs will have them

So do the Italian DDs and the Capitani Romani

Not to mention searchlights

[eternal veldt]

the 100mm secbat has illumination rounds as I recall

[chilly osprey]

So they should be able to generate points of aim for the French and Italian BBs and CLs

[spring briar]

the 90mm do

[eternal veldt]

So even if the main battery doesn't have it, it's probably fine?

[chilly osprey]

They should be fine

The Italian 100mm has illumination rounds as well

[spring briar]

this kinda brings me back to the flashless charge thing as well

[chilly osprey]

How high up do flashless charges go for French ships?

At the start of the war RM guns up to and including 152mm have flashless charges, 203mm only starting in 1941

Afaik at least up to the 138.6mm guns had flashless charges in the MN?

I recall reading that a quarter of the charges on TdEs and CTs tended to be flashless

[spring briar]

During the war, BM was produced in a reduced flash version using potassium chloride for some 138.6 mm guns.

and here

it's a mess

I can't really take anything in terms of shell types for granted in navweaps

[chilly osprey]

Campbell doesn't give any information for charges used on cruiser guns, because of course that would be too convenient;

[spring briar]

given we can't even be sure about the toxic gas stuff

I have stuff about shells up to 1924

and then nothing

[spring briar]

about this
I have seen pictures from an ex sailor on richie having BM powder strips from richie so even this is eh

and if she has BM strips that could mean it should've had the flashless option

[chilly osprey]

BM doesn't necessarily indicate they had the additives to make them flashless charges. The issue is more identifying which calibers had the additives

[spring briar]

no but they could have

but is having flashless for such high caliber even useful?

[chilly osprey]

Makes origin of fire harder to identify for the enemy and also protects your own crew from loosing their night vision

[spring briar]

I'd want to see how big of a difference it makes

[chilly osprey]

You can counter the later - ex, in the RM, pending any flashless solutions for large caliber guns (i.e. 320mm & 381mm), they added anti-glare treatments to the night APGs, rubber blinders on eye pieces, added colored slides to night optics that could be lowered to protect them. They also added warning buzzers to command spaces so command personnel would know to close their eyes in advance of a salvo being fired - but obviously none of this was exactly ideal.

[spring briar]

and they would spot fall of shot with the surface radar?

or?

I'm sorry if I seem pedantic it just sounds like a hassle to me

[chilly osprey]

These are all methods introduced circa mid-1941, so well before they have any radar good enough for fire control, let alone spot fall of shot

That would fall to gunnery crew, most of whom would be operating the protected night APGs or other optics

[spring briar]

how do these night sights work?

[chilly osprey]

You have to keep in mind that bright flashes will completely ruin someone's night vision

[spring briar]

yes I can see that

[hollow wind]

https://youtu.be/N-aK6JnyFmk

[spring briar]

I just don't know how these night sights work

[hollow wind]

The other classic Vietnam soundtrack

[hollow wind]

You talkin bout the thermal or green vision

or both

[chilly osprey]

Basically the same as daytime sights, just that they have the specific treatments in order to protect the operators from glare at night

[hollow wind]

thermal or the green one?

[spring briar]

do they have a big aperture to capture as much light as possible to then focus
kinda like an owl's eyes

[hollow wind]

?

[spring briar]

it's 1941

[hollow wind]

oh

yeah no I don’t quite know that one

[chilly osprey]

That is often found in binoculars and the like specifically meant for night use, yeah

The Japanese ones are quite infamous for this

[spring briar]

I do want to mention that
if flashless charges are absent on richie
what point is there in having the contact detonator on the AP

[hollow wind]

Well I think it’s as bullshid as cod vanguard having holographic sights and stun grenades at 1939 till 1945 but it’s actually real

And gas masks that were not until 1960’d

what did cod vanguard do to history

[spring briar]

or just "close your eyes when the alarm sounds"

[eternal veldt]

If you're taking video games as a valid form of media, that's not good.

[hollow wind]

well I don’t

I mean sometimes

[chilly osprey]

Note the whole 'close eyes' thing is for command staff, specifically, not for the fire control systems operators

[hollow wind]

When the detail is actually yeah

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

but they ruined it that bad everybody had to not ignore it

[chilly osprey]

Most fire control personnel who were going to need their night vision and be exposed to flash were using protected optical devices, but this wasn't the case for, say, your captain or admiral on the bridge

Protecting your optics against glare was always going to be important even with flashless powder just because the enemy might blind you with searchlights

[spring briar]

automatic shutters timed with the gun blast

the power of the sun in your retina

all of this requires some deeper research

[chilly osprey]

The interference caused by the searchlights of Duilio, that had been switched on after she had been illuminated, proved to be considerable: observation of the target from Littorio and aiming with the optics of the night rangefinders were practically impossible, although using binoculars with ‘Zeiss-Septar’ polarising filters it was possible to take aim at the light sources with no interference.

[spring briar]

ofc, fancy polarising filters will do the job

until your enemy uses light of the same polarisation

quantum warfare

[chilly osprey]

lol

[hollow wind]

Sounds a lot like flashbanging everybody with every light source possible

[spring briar]

kinda what the Germans did at Jutland

[chilly osprey]

Well, searchlight use was quite risky

Because that makes you a target for everyone and their mother

[hollow wind]

They can’t see us if we blind them with our searchlights

[chilly osprey]

Anywho, prior to fire control radar being a thing, often a big distinguisher for night fire control systems was just that they were quite simplified versus daylight systems, because you needed immediate reaction and the distances were so short anyways

[eternal veldt]

Akatsuki:

[spring briar]

they had searchlights with diaphragm shutters
so they basically had a small laserbeam to locate a ship and once they found it they opened it up all the way to blast it with the full power of the sun

[chilly osprey]

Ex, you'd send fire control data directly to gun turrets instead of routing through the fire control center and waiting for the full ballistic calculations

[hollow wind]

https://youtu.be/BlxCxQhmtFY

[hollow wind]

The tale of the f16 that dodged 6 SAM missiles with no chaff no flares and f14 shooting down 2 mig’s

nice

[chilly osprey]

When longer ranges became possible, typically with fire control radars or smarter illumination methods, you could treat night gunnery more like a daylight fight (from a fire control perspective)

[spring briar]

FC and RPC makes everything so much easier

[hollow wind]

With illumination shells

I did saw a vid where a big firework and so many fireworks exploded that night turned into daylight for 1 second

[spring briar]

don't have enough power for RPC because 1930's
don't manage to put FC on ships because ww2
MN moment

[hollow wind]

Still sick that one f16 in Iraq dodged 6 missiles with no chaff or flares

[spring briar]

Iraq

there's your answer

[chilly osprey]

They really do lol

Especially if you want to fire and maneuver

[dapper parcel]

don't have enough power for RPC because 1930's
Now I'm wondering why no one jerry rig the existing hydraulic (mostly?) motors into servo through valve manipulation, instead of fully converting into the power hogs that was fully electric motor-selsyn

Heck, control the valves with selsyn

[spring briar]

convenience probably

and the fact it was so new

[chilly osprey]

That depends if the systems of the era could really handle it/be smooth enough with it

It would also require you to be using hydraulic systems in the first place, and many navies did not use such systems for turret control in favor of purely electrical

[spring briar]

eg they were trying it on the Fantasques
which are meant to fight it out at high speed
with rather light hulls

try and get that system to converge

all broken dreams in the end

the USN and RN atleast got it

[chilly osprey]

RN, uh, eventually

[spring briar]

eventually, sure

but within the boundaries of ww2, right?

[chilly osprey]

I'm actually blanking now, did they have RPC on DD guns during the war or did that come after?

[spring briar]

time to ask in wows disc

[spring briar]

None except a few of the battle class

• maybe

[chilly osprey]

That's what I thought

I recall some heavy AA guns having it

But otherwise it being a largely post-war thing for the RN

Vanguard had it for gun train only on her main guns, secondary guns were full RPC however

The USN is the only navy that got away with full RPC on DD guns

And most guns tbh

The Germans had RPC for heavy AA guns and elevation-onky RPC for cruiser and BB guns (idk about DDs)

The French managed train-only RPC on cruisers, though the reliability seems to have been called I to question. There's a note that the 152mm ships never used it, though it was installed.

Though, afaik apparently Richelieu's 152mm guns were supposed to have full RPC

The Japanese only ever managed RPC on their 25mm triple turrets

RM had it working on their 90mm heavy AA guns and then information gets conflicting about cruiser guns

Some sources outright say they had RPC, others say it wasn't full service control, it's kind of a mess

BBs and DDs were definitely FTP, though

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

RPC for the german heavy AA guns seems to be "only" elevation, fuze setter, tilt and firing

Essentially everything except for train

[chilly osprey]

Ah, thanks for the correction

[manic latch]

Crashed F-35 getting sawed in half

I don't think this is the C variant

[ivory ridge]

sussy

[manic latch]

[desert agate]

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=3571

interview with the designer of the KAL-1

[spring briar]

Em-2n’t

[desert agate]

its totally unrelated to the em-2 but y'know

When Loughrey began work on his “ideal rifle” he hadn’t even heard the term “bullpup;” his design was “simply the only way to achieve what I sought to do”
i found this funny

[spring briar]

Yep

Sounds pretty em-2 to me

[frigid karma]

convergent evolution

[ivory ridge]

Does it become a crab if you let it evolve undisturbed

[frigid karma]

crabs are unfortunately off topic for this channel so no

[ivory ridge]

Cursed centauro

[spring briar]

San Giorgio?

[maiden citrus]

cute

[ivory ridge]

Ye

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

My quest to find Soyuz

Since CIA says she was launched

And had test runs

[spring briar]

Source: the CIA

[tough quail]

she's carefully hidden in the baltic to be deployed for fire support if saint petersburg is ever besieged again

[shrewd pecan]

155?

[ivory ridge]

Yes

[shrewd pecan]

epic

[manic latch]

Here

I know she is hiding somewhere

[cinder escarp]

IMHO the 155 is more cursed

It honestly looks fake

[ivory ridge]

It is, that's a mock up

[cinder escarp]

I meant like a totally made up thing, not in the sense of it being a mockup

[ivory ridge]

Also if it wasnt obvious, this one was literally an FH-70 strapped on a Centauro

A weird mix between an SPG and towed arty lol

[livid knot]

https://youtu.be/P8kFYozFKFg

Did Indi-chan mention something similar in-game?

[shrewd pecan]

I’m guessing it was just made to test 155 recoil on the centauro’s suspension

[sullen canyon]

[hollow wind]

battle of cape egano

Or cape espano

Or

I’m not talking about cap espearance

I’m talking about the one where zuikaku dies

[spiral cedar]

Engaño

[hollow wind]

oh

[spiral cedar]

You were close

[hollow wind]

So many battles in the Philippines to the point I forgor the name from battlestastion pacific

[eternal veldt]

@spring briar thoughts?

@tough quail as well

[hollow wind]

well there is Brest fortress so why not make a fortress on wa’er the French said

Named after the fortress

[spring briar]

Looks fine to me but I’m still not 100% sure whether wg used that specific prelim to base her on

[eternal veldt]

I don't think there's another alternative

[spring briar]

Would make the most sense

Mhm

[eternal veldt]

My first thought was that the ship was based on Dunkerque

[spring briar]

God knows why the DP 138.6 tho

[eternal veldt]

We've ruled out Cherbourg's Croiseur de Bataille 17,500 tons

I'll give a shout to Yuzo on WoWS discord as well. Not sure if he's a weeb like us

[spring briar]

He doesn’t mind

[fierce sparrow]

Brest. . .

oh WG..

[tough quail]

[frigid karma]

i mean

there's a french port called brest

[hollow wind]

https://youtu.be/2mnuQkmywrc

Ironic how the worst plane crash happened on the ground

[desert agate]

The vast majority of aircraft crashes happen either on take-off or landing

[hollow wind]

https://tenor.com/view/ww2-warthunder-japan-planes-gif-7304108

Japanese nippon steel

The best for taking out enemies scouting your carrier or battleship

[spiral cedar]

Japanese Japanese steel

[spring briar]

Nippon nippon steel

[hollow wind]

https://tenor.com/view/goebbels-ww2-gif-20718570

Ah yes Goebbels

[spring briar]

Wut

[hollow wind]

The propaganda master of no no germany

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

Little goblin geubels

[hollow wind]

The beeg map mod

[desert agate]

All the best Japanese steel is Japanese

Naturally

American Japanese steel is no good

[hollow wind]

Until 50 cals hit the fuel tanks

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

Oh that's the Brest fortress

It's not French it's polish

And then Russian

And then german

And polish again

[spring briar]

There’s a Brest in Poland and one in France

[hollow wind]

The one in France is the port

[maiden citrus]

I own 2 as well

[hollow wind]

And ship

[spring briar]

Where do you think Brest-litovsk comes from

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

I just rembered

[spring briar]

Maka too much information

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

Krem no

Respectful

[manic latch]

Respectfully

But of course Kremlin fortress is better

[eternal veldt]

@ivory ridge Because I'm really scared Adriatico is a thing, and you mentioned wanting to compare the two earlier

[hollow wind]

What nation should I pick

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

Bruh

Literally a reskin?

[maiden citrus]

[ivory ridge]

They are 1:1 except the rear superstructure

And of course the guns

[manic latch]

It's a Tashkent with different guns

[spring briar]

And deck color

[manic latch]

Or Italian equipment let's say

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

some superficial differences as well around the funnels

[hollow wind]

It's the Russian navy what u expect

[spring briar]

Shut

[eternal veldt]

and sits lower, for whatever reason

[spring briar]

Heavier guns?

[manic latch]

HD model

Tashkent has old

[maiden citrus]

balanse purposes prob

[manic latch]

No. Gearing also got smaller with HD model

[eternal veldt]

Gearing is night and day

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Tashkent is just old

[ivory ridge]

The major difference in the model is because of the 3 vs 2 torp sets

[spring briar]

From Goering to Gearing

[ivory ridge]

Otherwise they would be even more similar

[dapper parcel]

Putting a deck over the torp launcher but not using it for anything hmm

[spring briar]

ijn style

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

HD model moment

[spring briar]

Truly blessed

[eternal veldt]

oi oi oi, they got carley floats on the walkways

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

It's a CRs deck but they forgot to put stuff on it

Kek

[maiden citrus]

lol

[eternal veldt]

Boats not required

In the way of firing angles, smh

[ivory ridge]

I wish they werent required on Roma

[maiden citrus]

-adds the boats to some ships and screws them-

[ivory ridge]

[eternal veldt]

Roma

godfuckingdamnit

Boats on the Littorios are removed before combat actions for a reason

[ivory ridge]

Stalingrad gets to have dumb angles because the boats in the port are removed

Roma doesnt

[manic latch]

One is Stalingrad

Still tho. Why bother putting them on Stalingrad's dock model at first place

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

aug

Named after a volcano exploded like a volcano

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

Former Peruvian Navy BAP Almirante Grau (CLM-81) De Zeven Provincien-class cruiser (ex-HNLMS De Ruyter C801) being towed out of Lima, Peru for final scrapping - July 8, 2022

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

ayo my image ban gone

[ivory ridge]

Pog

[spring briar]

bonus points if you know where this is

[near raptor]

Where was this picture taken?

[ivory ridge]

Faro della Vittoria, Trieste

[spring briar]

[near raptor]

That’s where the shell is?

[spring briar]

good undy

yes

at the foot of the lighthouse
as you can see in the picture

[near raptor]

Ah cool!

[ivory ridge]

The anchor is from the WW1 Destroyer Audace, the first italian warship that entered Trieste in 1918

The plaque says "Shine and Remember the fallen at sea"

[spring briar]

07

[spring briar]

@ivory ridge
shitty quality picture of a 320mm/44 shell from one of the Italian rebuilds in the Canove museum
a museum dedicated to WW1

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

it doesn't have its cap sadly

13.5" APC ready for shipping

[manic latch]

https://www.flyingmag.com/pratt-and-whitney-gets-4-4-billion-to-develop-f-35-engines/

https://tenor.com/view/when-the-money-vince-mcmahon-big-chungus-wwe-gif-16018373

[spring briar]

My grave.exe

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

oh so they buried you with me

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

yos

[spring briar]

I love being able to post pictures

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

[hollow wind]

680 ships but 10.000 men less

If it had 10.000 more men at those times

That would be the actual biggest naval battle in history

[spring briar]

again, like 80% of people in the battle of Ecnomus were just rowing

[hollow wind]

And the others were boarding each other

And firing arrows

[jovial elm]

I'm a bit happier with this PR because the ships were planned at least

The CL is what eventually became tiger I think

[spring briar]

from my buddy silver

[desert agate]

guys

its literally

pinned

[ivory ridge]

im gonna pin you

[desert agate]

sounds hot im in

[frigid karma]

banned for off topic roleplay

[jovial elm]

The MoD lost loads of sketches for some reason

[exotic scarab]

Will this finally be a pr wave without Germany

[jovial elm]

Hope so

[ivory ridge]

lol

lmao even

[exotic scarab]

Almost all the ww2 books I've read said Germanys real Forte was submarine warfare

I don't get why al keeps giving them more surface

[jovial elm]

Wehraboos are wehraboos

[exotic scarab]

Most ww2 books in my middle school don't even mention the surface fleet in more then passing

[jovial elm]

Also Germany kinda messed up their sub warfare by falling for British trickery

[exotic scarab]

But either way the submarine fleet was there main

So if they give pr it better be a pr sub

[desert agate]

the submarine fleet that during no month sank more than 1% of shipping to the British isles

that one?

[spiral cedar]

Because surface ships are sexier

[alpine onyx]

Could do a PR minesweeper since Germany was big in that game as well, but no one cares about German ships below 30000 tons

Also mine warfare in AL, not a thing

[spiral cedar]

So just the battleships and Prinz Eugen?

[alpine onyx]

Look how smol and cute

And then imagine a few hundred of those

[exotic scarab]

u-47

[exotic scarab]

reply to this message but bot doesnt like 47 art

[spiral cedar]

I don’t mean the art, I mean the ship itself

[exotic scarab]

i am not sexually attarcted to giant pieces of metal,wood,and other materials

[alpine onyx]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371433115970961411/980460255920140298/unknown.png

[jovial elm]

I was meaning the sonar detection device they stole off the french that the British convinced them was leaving trails to their submarines

[spring briar]

Why weegee

Whyyyyyy

[spiral cedar]

EBBBE

[spring briar]

True

Long shaft

[manic latch]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jul/10/high-winds-send-f-18-fighter-jet-overboard-aircraf/

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/l419dJ1qiRI

[dapper parcel]

When the last time anyone building capital ship with bare tripod mainmast?

[eternal veldt]

Vanguard, if we really stick to the definition of masts

Otherwise, Im leaning on the US for their massive tripod refits for the standards

[inland thicket]

there goes a few million dollars, whoops.

[hollow wind]

PBY black cats

I wonder how long they were used

They were effective

[strong plank]

For the US, until 1957

[eternal veldt]

Plymouth's loss by the MoD is unfortunately a shitshow

The papers were damaged by water, possibly through a leaky roof

Then, someone bright in the MoD thought the papers were not important, so they chucked it away

Life of a blueprint: either damaged and accidentally thrown away, or leaked online by hardcore players or game developers

[desert agate]

the Australian black cats were even more daring and dangerous than the American ones

[hollow wind]

Bcs they're Australian

And possibly the 20 mm cannons

From that cod mission

[desert agate]

nah we didnt fit 20mm guns to our black cats

too heavy

[hollow wind]

Toroedoes

Torpedoes and depth chargee

[desert agate]

we removed all the armour plating and increased the maximum range as much as possible

so we could perform aerial mining operations in south east asia

[hollow wind]

Well that's for recon one

[desert agate]

nope

nothing to do with recon

[hollow wind]

that's for the mine one

There's 3 right

Mine recon and Asw

[shrewd pecan]

black cats didn't necessarily have the 20 MMs either in US service

[desert agate]

the americans refused to make those modifications to their own PBYs

because they believed they were too dangerous

[hollow wind]

They just used torpedoes once

[shrewd pecan]

they were just painted black for night ops

[desert agate]

torpedos were a regular fitting on catalinas

[hollow wind]

Depth charges

[desert agate]

anti submarine warfare was another valuable task the catalina was well suited to

[hollow wind]

And recon

[hollow wind]

But only sometimes

They use the smaller planes instead

[desert agate]

the longest ever commercial flight in history was also performed by Australian catalinas

flying for up to 33 hours from Perth, Western Australia to southern Cyelon (now Sri Lanka)

[hollow wind]

Poor German sailors

[desert agate]

known as the double sunrise flights

[hollow wind]

Got bombed the entire war

[shrewd pecan]

shame shouldn't of joined the German navy

[maiden citrus]

catalinas and bombing subs, name a more iconic duo

[hollow wind]

The British battleship line

[tough quail]

lads

[hollow wind]

what want do yo-

[desert agate]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/515583624083406848/989646826699378739/image0.gif

[manic latch]

[dapper parcel]

stowage in inlet duct?

[manic latch]

Ye

I think J-20 version is actually more improved than F-22 one

Since it closes the missile bay after missile is outside

[ivory ridge]

Bote

[dapper parcel]

when trap cards went out of hand

[silver crest]

🤨

[chilly osprey]

Gorizia my queen

[eternal veldt]

@spring briar lol, lmao

Marseille being over 30,000 tons

WG must have been feeding Marseille too much cheese

[junior trench]

that's not a good thing

F-22s kicks it out and is done with it because the seeker is already cued for LOAL

J-20s needs to sit out there to let the missile seeker lock

[manic latch]

[frigid karma]

does any design of a mini french nelson-dunkerque bastard exist

[maiden citrus]

[rapid junco]

Our only confirmed kill

[manic latch]

@spring briar

[spring briar]

No

But there is a richelieu nelson

[frigid karma]

9x380?

or 12x380?

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

9x380

So like nelson

[frigid karma]

saipan in heavy seas

[somber knoll]

[spiral cedar]

Wibbly

[exotic scarab]

thats almost as bad as september 10ths garfield comic

[unborn wyvern]

Mother of God, Garfield did 9/11

[ivory ridge]

guess the site

[shrewd pecan]

no don’t think I will

[frigid karma]

I know that site too well

[frigid karma]

you know they probably can't spell that right when uh

[ivory ridge]

[frigid karma]

they have a grammar error on their first sentence

it reads worse than a broken google translate btw

anyone who cites this site as a source during a discussion should be auto evicted

[rapid junco]

Gioana class sub chasers

[eternal veldt]

Again, the site unironically believes Republique, a mega Gascogne invented by WG, exists

Instantly noncredible

[tender monolith]

does it also think Georgia exists

[eternal veldt]

No, but it shows Iowa class configurations with a year of 1901

The Final Countdown is real

[chilly osprey]

[strong plank]

honestly quite incredible

[frigid karma]

I remember when the US won the battle of Belleau Wood by calling in artillery support from the newly retrofitted space iowa built 17 years ago

[exotic scarab]

why cant we do stuff like this again (brian booru 1000s irish lord)

put historical figures in armor and outfits that are from centuries later

i want to see fredrick der grosse in a bundeswher uniform

[night heart]

Is that a joke ?

[exotic scarab]

wouldnt be suprised

https://slate.com/technology/2018/06/why-the-military-cant-quit-windows-xp.html

[somber knoll]

Should have gone to Win7 first.

[exotic scarab]

it took till the 2010s to upgrade from XP

have to say bmt/medhold was quite to shock to find out the armed forces doesnt always use the most advanced equipment

[burnt haven]

Nah it's reliable and meets the mission profile

If it isn't broken don't fix it

[exotic scarab]

they had exposed wiring since one of the face plates for the wall fell off in the medhold dorm

[dusty kraken]

Update to vista so hackers crash if they try to hack it

[exotic scarab]

and they litterally tapped a laundry tag to the wall saying its missing and it was dated to 2020

and the last check of the fire extingusher in the dorm was in 19

[subtle prawn]

Le Terrible on the first of her sorties de vérification on 10 May 1935. (US Navy NH 86548, courtesy of A D Baker III)

[spring briar]

Speeeed

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToUZ3VangEk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeCtq1dCeqk

[eternal veldt]

@alpine onyx anything I should change for GK 4541? I remember you saying the mix of double and single casemates and placement of the 105mm mounts are kinda stupid, not sure about the rest.

[alpine onyx]

I generally strike the casemate guns, as the Germans removed them from the ships that had them in 1940/1941. Even Graf Zeppelin underwent some attempts to remove them in favor of more 105mm guns during construction (which failed since they were too advanced in construction, but future designs would not have gone the 150mm gun route)

[fierce sparrow]

Prinz Rupprechr and Harbin...

[manic latch]

My Soviet fleet is ever growing stronger

[eternal veldt]

Aye. Specifically mentioned them in the "retention" part. I recall your reasoning being that the Deutschland pre-dreads removed them.

[alpine onyx]

And well, they also wanted to kill Graf Zeppelin's

[eternal veldt]

Well, that's what Flugzeugträger B did.

At least, according to Breyer (if his stuff on GZ is credible).

[alpine onyx]

In lack of proper first hand accounts ( ), it has to do

[somber knoll]

Krauts realising their own German complexity (read: idiocy) only to come up with another idiosyncrasies

At least they realised with Strasser that 150 mms was pretty much added weight.

[alpine onyx]

The casemates weren't their own idea, their only reference point was Akagi pre modernization (so the version that still carried two twin turrets), as other navies refused them access to plans.

The design alterations from there to the final GZ design are already a major uplift

[dapper parcel]

One interesting thing that I don't remember where I read it
German delegation asked Japan for state of the art carrier design. The Japanese did just that, giving them Akagi's plan, but never mentioned that she'll go for a complete rebuild next month or so and that there's a lot of thing wrong with her concept.

[alpine onyx]

Yep

[somber knoll]

yea.

and to be fair they were not the only ones either.
pre-refit Saratoga with at least usable 203 mms

[eternal veldt]

Kaga already went for the shipyard in 1934, as I recall, followed by Akagi shortly.

Makes sense, given the inhospitable hell that is Kaga's living environment.

[alpine onyx]

The Germans visited Akagi in Autumn 1935, and Oktober/November is when the reconstruction began

[eternal veldt]

Though, Akagi's isn't exactly top notch either. Lots of smoke on the flight decks.

[dapper parcel]

Kaga was also the more expendable of the two, so they willing to experiment on her

[alpine onyx]

They also got a "visit" of HMS Furious, but with how Breyer words this it seems like they got no usable input from there

[eternal veldt]

The design was intentionally delayed so as to gain experience from GZ's operation.

[somber knoll]

eh for all intents and purposes they were just sightseeing in British shipyards

[eternal veldt]

Assuming that if all planes were indeed launched from the catapult, there is certainly much room for improvement.

18 aircraft in the air in 18 minutes at best, followed by a 50-minute air tank replenishment before another 18 planes can be taken off.

[alpine onyx]

Them taking the pile of Akagi blueprints and eliminating the turrets for flight deck real estate, going with a single deck instead of three, not cooking the crew with funnels, having a much more usable heavy AA battery and not using those stupid elevators (or was that only on Kaga? Either way it was a stupid design) is already quite an evolution to do blindly

[somber knoll]

Yeah. the only problem was they didn't have enough time to experiment like how IJN did with the foxes and the USN with the pink-haired idols

[alpine onyx]

Also I doubt that they could only do catapult launches

[eternal veldt]

I reckon the lighter ones like the Fi-167 could be launched without it.

Though, I think planes like the BF109 needed it?

It's in muddy waters, given that the designer "claims" it is full catapult launches.

[somber knoll]

ain't the catapults needed for the Junkers (both the the C and D variant?)

[eternal veldt]

Something something, Raeder wants 203mm triples on GZ initially.

[alpine onyx]

Oh god don't remind me

[somber knoll]

and I assumed like silver that the Fieseler and the Arado were light enough to launch without the catapults.

[eternal veldt]

At the end of the day, I don't think we'll know unless the BdA manages to unveil more sekrit dokumints.

That, and Goering's fat ass refusing to help the designers.

[somber knoll]

Classic Goering with "Mah Luftwaffe will rule ze skies" motto.

Poor Kriegsmarine was still not juvenile enough to run their own air squadrons.

[eternal veldt]

But yea, Sirene. Anything else I should add on the creation basis of the SGK series? There's bloody little info on these ships, minus from Russian sources.

[alpine onyx]

I got nothing else on them tbh

[eternal veldt]

and I'm not about to buy Kreuzer und Kreuzerprojekte der KuK for a weeb bote, if it's even related.

[alpine onyx]

I could go and start dismantling WG's model

[desert agate]

hermann meyer

[eternal veldt]

"retention of casemates, heavy torpedo armament, bad 105 placement" is already pretty bad already. You've got more things to pick on?

I guess you can pick on the funnel too, since it's more astern and smaller than 4541. But I guess they can pull the "lol reboilered" liberty off.

[alpine onyx]

Nothing that I'd risk betting on, but the superstructure arrangement is also unlike what the Germans wanted

They wanted an open platform with near 360° view, and only deviated from that if the available space was too tight to allow for that

they have enough space between mast and funnel to double the superstructure, so there should be ample space to allow for that

however the conning tower might be in the way

Also if my eyes are correct she has no target designators for her heavy AA?

lol

[eternal veldt]

Just use IJN directors with an AA stick, easy.

[alpine onyx]

Directors re not the issue

It's that she has no ZAG

[eternal veldt]

Oh, those.

[alpine onyx]

It'll be fine, the AA officer will use a stick and a megaphone to yell instructions from the spotting top

[junior trench]

if the catapult rails didn't create an obstacle on the flight deck, maybe

[exotic scarab]

[spring briar]

[exotic scarab]

at least the new german girl is pretty horny

[spring briar]

Gottem

[exotic scarab]

im only still interested in AL for the fanart

[remote monolith]

https://twitter.com/trichodes/status/1546488270204305409?t=Nzov3vJpuANH-V0NS_Hopg&s=19

Alejandro Izquierdo (@trichodes)

Although the paper is officially published this Friday, some of you have already found out about it, so I cannot keep it secret any longer. Here is the newest bivalved #arthropod from the Burgess Shale: Balhuticaris voltae. (1/8)

Link: https://t.co/g8imYXCpZH

Likes

4404

Retweets

940

Twitter · Jul 11, 2022, 1:35 PM

babe wake up new Cambrian giant is here

[spring briar]

Ayoooo

Sea dragon

[humble mulch]

I want one

[maiden citrus]

Arthropod dropped

[dusty kraken]

damn Subnautica is so popular they made a live action version of it

[spiral cedar]

This is a book that I can find no info about

[manic latch]

https://www.amazon.com/Atom-Bomb-Missiles-Ancient-India/dp/9351282503

Buy it then

10 bucks

[spiral cedar]

No

You buy it

[manic latch]

Nah I only buy Soviet books

[strong plank]

new invictus pics

https://twitter.com/MBeinart22/status/1546899186800594944

Matt Beinart (@MBeinart22)

Here are the latest photos of Bell's 360 Invictus prototype for the Army's Future Attack Reconnaissance Aircraft (FARA) competition. The prototype aircraft is ~90% complete now, according to Bell

Likes

262

Twitter · Jul 12, 2022, 4:48 PM

[manic latch]

Dickus invictus

Gawd that stealthy hull

Hope it doesn't end like Comanche

[spring briar]

Ah yes

The indian astras

Aka

Nukes for fringe metascience boyos

[frigid karma]

you're a commie, no?

share it with us

[manic latch]

[frigid karma]

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/ancient-india-aeroplanes-nuclear-weapons-chief-history-chairman-indian-council-historical-research-228149-2014-11-21

"We have so many proofs that these events happened," Rao, 69, said in an interview, describing events in the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, the ancient Hindu epics about love and war, truth and deceit, that feature characters using inextinguishable fire and weapons with the destructive power of a nuclear arsenal.

[maiden citrus]

sure bro

[frigid karma]

ah, religion

[manic latch]

I do have a PNG of communist books you can get. But not sure if I am allowed to share here

[frigid karma]

how do you explain gandhi then

his nuclear doctrines were derived from ancient hindu practices

[strong plank]

Oh the fucking vimana thing

[dusty kraken]

look after seeing Indian servants in the Fate franchise I can surely say that ancient Indians have fucking nuclear bombs/s

[frigid karma]

have none of yall seen nuclear gandhi

[strong plank]

That’s the thing Gil flies around on in Zero

[dusty kraken]

and whatever the fuck that Gilgamesh has

[strong plank]

No like literally

that’s the thing he has

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaimānika_Shāstra

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana

[strong plank]

The Vaimānika Shāstra is an early 20th-century Sanskrit text on aeronautics, obtained allegedly by mental channeling, about the construction of vimānas, the "chariots of the Gods".

Unironically “this was revealed to me in a dream”

[manic latch]

Old Artists: Let me put some flying temple or object so picture looks cooler not empty

Today: My god is that ufo

[dusty kraken]

Unfathomably based

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/brahmastra-brahmastra-trailer-brahmastra-movie-alia-bhatt-ranbir-kapoor-gif-25953425

Brahmastra

Trishul

(Trident)

And Karna creating a second sun with an arrow in the mahabharata ofc

Because India

Yes Indian mythology is a passion of mine

Reee

Pretty much several weapons in indian mythology can destroy the entire universe

[subtle prawn]

https://tankmuseum.org/articles/ken-tout-obituary

[exotic scarab]

well yes acient nations were more advanced then we give them credit

we have not found enough to give proof of technology that far ahead

[frigid karma]

I think if India had nukes as far back as then we’d all be speaking Hindi rn

[exotic scarab]

also isnt there a legitmate thing where the first nuclear test added something to all steel forged afterword

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel

yeah if there was ancient nuclear test we would find some evedience of that in stuff like this

or tree rings

the use of nuclear weapons is pretty hard to hide

esspically when as they claim they were used on cities

[frigid karma]

well no

indian states are quite warlike, i highly doubt they would do something like develop nukes then just leave them to rot in the shed after a couple years

If you did time travel back to ancient India and gave them a machine that shits nukes out periodically for free and also gifts a free detonating mechanism, I think the entire subcontinent would be radioactive beyond compare by now

[exotic scarab]

[exotic scarab]

That doesn't counter anything I said about there being plenty of ways to tell if there was a nuclear bomb used in the past 2000 years

Also another thing I don't get about these theories is if they were so advanced why did we forget about all this tech

[humble mulch]

We forgot how to make Romed concrete

That’s like

The whole forgot part isn’t something you should ever get hung up about

Quite literally a “yeah a guess” and shrug

We also don’t know how to make that one weird type of fire

There’s plenty of things humanity has forgotten to do and then relearned

[chilly osprey]

You know, I did not have 'person claiming India had WMDs in 3,000 BCE' on my bingo list for 2022

[humble mulch]

Yeah I’m not saying they had them
And I 100% agree the sub continent and planet would have been fucked beyond belief if they did

[chilly osprey]

Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that was your stance

[humble mulch]

But the whole forgot part is actually the only reasonable part about all of this

Lmao no you’re all good

[chilly osprey]

I'm only just now able to react to the original post XD

[humble mulch]

Just making it clear cause I’m defending like part of this whole train wreck

[frigid karma]

I’d say a literal nuke is important enough to not forget

Mods this is history btw

[humble mulch]

Dude you know how hard it is to explain how to make a nuke to someone who cannot read your language, nor speak it

Now these fuckers are also what

5k years old?

Like bro we are still finding new Dino’s and still have a whole ass conspiracy on the great pyramids

[exotic scarab]

i mean as in completly forgot they even existed

forgetting to do something is fine but completly forgetting technology as major as flight and nukes even existed is the part I dont buy

[frigid karma]

oh yeah will

if the indians knew how to build nukes why didn't they use them against christopher columbus

[humble mulch]

Dude I'm going to hit you with my motorcycle

[frigid karma]

you'll hit...and miss

[humble mulch]

[broken valley]

That’s a fair point

Real talk: the Mongolian empire is wack

[tough quail]

that's where you're wrong kiddo

[exotic scarab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqcVro-3f4I

[broken valley]

They all died because of a virus

Like bro, how does one of the most feared empires fall to the sniffles

[exotic scarab]

didnt that also wipe out a majority of america before the colonists

and allow europe to take them much of the land

[broken valley]

Probably

Any thoughts on blitzkreig?

[frigid karma]

french did it better in 1918

[exotic scarab]

overrated and not that new

[spiral cedar]

Not a term used by the Germans except when referring to English-language news sources inventing the term

[exotic scarab]

it just sorta feels like nothing

the germans advanced quickly and wanted to defeat their opponents quickly...im not a O-9 but I think thats the basic idea of tactics

[humble mulch]

It's just

Combined arms

[frigid karma]

did you know that germany invented flanking

[remote monolith]

tbf Roman concrete was made of particular breed of volcanic ash that won't be available anywhere after the empire's collapse, making them impractical until recent times, and some recipes indicates animal blood was part of the reason why the concrete is so durable

[humble mulch]

Yes I know, but the recipe was only recently refound in the last 10 years

[dapper parcel]

Roman concrete was also a case of survivorship bias
You only see structures that are well built/overbuilt and survive the test of time
Of course they have excellent integrity

[remote monolith]

well yeah, cause before modern era it's not entirely practical or cheap to use them, and we could replicate the durability of their concrete without following their recipe, it's just cheaper to make less durable concrete so it can be cleared out easier for the next batch of people

[dapper parcel]

We can engineer much better concrete, it's just not cheap

And for most of the modern civil engineering case, there's no need to engineer a structure that last 200 years if the purpose isn't expected to last 100 years

[remote monolith]

pretty much yeah

unless your goal is to make sure everybody knows you've been in this world like some sort of megalomaniacal pharaoh

[junior trench]

forgot is a strong word

probably more like we don't know the recipe anymore, but most likely have remade and improved it by now

[spring briar]

Castelnaud in Dordogne

[fierce sparrow]

oh damn...

[exotic scarab]

how much for the armor

[spring briar]

A lot I’d assume

[manic latch]

Make your wife wear that armor and then

Wrestle her in mud soil

Then call it Agincourt cuddling

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

[manic latch]

"Then they had to walk a few hundred yards (metres) through thick mud and a press of comrades while wearing armour weighing 50–60 pounds (23–27 kg), gathering sticky clay all the way. Increasingly, they had to walk around or over fallen comrades."

I love how similar Knights are to tanks sometimes

[spring briar]

Ok krem

[exotic scarab]

[spring briar]

Cressy cuddle sounds better

[exotic scarab]

also lol implying anyone here would get a wife

[tender monolith]

could or would?

[exotic scarab]

would

we will all become the wives

[tender monolith]

i'll take it

[unborn wyvern]

Fact, the first time Blitzkrieg was done properly was in 1991. All other attempts were half-assed campaigns VS neutral countries and pacifists without proper equipment

[tough quail]

okay

[frigid karma]

Ah, but the Iraqis surrendered by the score, so they are evidently pacifist forces

[cinder escarp]

They also hardly had proper equipment

[unborn wyvern]

in 2003 yeah but in 1991 they had pretty good equipment. Problem is

the purges

They had the 5th largest army in 1991 and that sounds good on paper until you realize that the majority of them were conscripts, they had been worn down by the Iran-Iraq war and Dictators don't like it when Soldiers and citizens do that thing "thinking for themselves" which is great for maintaining order and control but in a Tactical situation will get you killed

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

just because your army is primarily conscripts doesn't mean its bad

its really down to conscript training

[frigid karma]

Looking at the amount that surrendered

Yikes

[shrewd pecan]

well yeah their command and logistics structures got wiped out from above

and they were fighting the entire rest of the globe

[humble mulch]

Also yeah when majority of your command and logistics gets sent to the moon in a single day and whole free world starts pouring, your moral isn't gonna be doing too hot

[broken valley]

Does anyone wanna talk about why France was pathetic in the world wars?

[strong plank]

France
pathetic
Aight IB tag

[tough quail]

anyone want to talk about how innovative and generous the germans were

for both inventing world wars and then jobbing to let other countries win both of them

that was really nice of them

[desert agate]

France willingly and voluntarily bore the vast brunt of the casualties of WW1 so I'm not sure why you would use the plural for war given that France made no operational mistakes worse than any other major power of the war

[broken valley]

Ohh

I forgot

But honestly I really like history

[strong plank]

The French and Belgians laying down their lives so that the British could flee Dunkirk

[desert agate]

and as for France in WW2, there are many many essays written about the fall of France and why it happened and I can link you to some, but outside of that, the French fought valiantly on all fronts

[tough quail]

i forgot

https://tenor.com/view/lance-stroll-lance-stroll-clap-f1-gif-23942883

[desert agate]

horse

chill bro

i get it

just chill

#history message @broken valley if you're interested

[broken valley]

Alright, sounds interesting

[spiral cedar]

Some more on the Maginot line here

[silver crest]

the design of the maginot line bunkers is interesting

they left very little cover for the back of the bunkers so that they can easily be retaken

[somber knoll]

oof

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826150561648083034/950975414568878131/essexschizo.gif

[frigid karma]

Essex class carrier loss rate: 0%

[tough quail]

we know

[eternal veldt]

[maiden citrus]

seems pretty unfortunate detail to have wrong

[loud comet]

Is Prinz Rupprecht use the same 406mm main battery as Friedrich der Große?

[ivory ridge]

Yes

[loud comet]

In Germany 15cm gun like 150mm SK C/28, 150mm TbtsK C/36. It says SKC/(number) or TbtsK C/(number), what does that mean?

[ivory ridge]

Year of design

C and SkC are about how it's loaded i think

[eternal veldt]

SK > Schiffs Kanone -Naval cannon
C > Construktionsjahr - year
TbtsK -Torpedoboots kanone - Torpedo boat cannon

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_projectiles.php

[dapper parcel]

You can extend the nomenclature to a lot of field

[eternal veldt]

and Rupprecht's 406mm is just moronic

Certainly not the same mounting as H-39

[dapper parcel]

SK SchiffsKanone = Ship cannon
TbtsK TorpedobootsKanone = Torpedoboat cannon
UBK UnterseeBootsKanone = Submarine cannon
KwK KampfwagenKanone = Fighting vehicle cannon
PaK PanzerabwehrKanone = Anti tank cannon
FlaK FlugabwehrKanone = Anti aircraft cannon
BK Bordkanone = Onboard (as in on aircraft fuselage) cannon
MK Maschinenkanone = Machine (auto) cannon

probably left out some

[alpine onyx]

10,5 cm Sk C/33, in 10,5 cm DoppLaff C/31

Good nomenclature

Says everything you need

[dapper parcel]

you forgot the L/ nomenclature

tho that's a bit modern

[alpine onyx]

The official nomenclature didn't include that

Fully written out it was 10,5 cm Schiffskanone, Konstruktion 1933, in 10,5 cm Doppellafette, Konstruktion 1931

Even plenty of cases where they just left out the caliber

In RM/24 you'll find a lot of prints for the guns C/34a through g