#history
silver crest
desert agate
It was a genuine plan
humble mulch
Shout out to humans not being to good in a room with more then 10% CO2
Also yeah it was a """plan"""
maiden citrus
I mean to be fair, this is german science we are talking about
humble mulch
So was the 1000 year Reich
But as we all know Germans can't plan or do anything for shit
desert agate
It was a very serious, very extensively thought out plan that had existed for decades by the point the Nazis came about
junior trench
bitches didn't even make it a 1000 month reich
junior trench
?
desert agate
12 years
humble mulch
At least they got like
1000 days
junior trench
1933 to 1945
maiden citrus
in two years skyrim will have lasted longer than the third reich
junior trench
and 1000 months is over 83 years
silver crest
humble mulch
Maka
I hate saying this
But by pure technically by including propaganda and people who should commit toaster bath, skyrim needs far more then 2 years to last longer
Also I find it amusing that they play the "every race served with the nazis" card
Never once have I seen a photo or anything on Chinese troops being in Europe fighting for the nazis
Pretty sure all of those are decent size leeps
maiden citrus
what would last longer in power, a 1,000 year long dictatorship of evil or a man in a wheelchair by popular vote
spiral cedar
He did
silver crest
I wish FDR got a 4th term
did he tho
spiral cedar
Just didn’t finish it
maiden citrus
t-tea
humble mulch
Well I mean
Finish it
humble mulch
Cause it then went to Eisenhower
maiden citrus
but yeah fdr was president longer than the third reich existed
humble mulch
Old white men who can stand are all the same to me most of the time
desert agate
Uh
junior trench
yeah but
silver crest
were term limits not a thing back then? or was he able to get 4 because it was wartime?
humble mulch
Yeah
silver crest
junior trench
Iron Daddy is based
spiral cedar
Yeh, term limits were a post-FDR amendment
maiden citrus
were term limits not a thing back then? or was he able to get 4 because it was w...
after him they made it 2 terms
silver crest
now that i think about it, teddy did try to run for a third term
junior trench
a certain party was butthurt about FDR's popularity and convinced people a term limit for just the presidency was a good idea
but not for congress
silver crest
but wilson beat teddy
desert agate
Because teddy split the vote by running with his own party
silver crest
yea
maiden citrus
Truman took a hard line
he had a few based moments true
humble mulch
Timeline where fdr and Stalin are lovers and the cold war is just them showing who loves the other more
silver crest
taft?
humble mulch
I think it was Taft solely cause that names sounds familiar
desert agate
Regardless fdr kinda had some cringe takes and potsdam would have been very different had he been there
Mornin riche
humble mulch
Morning
spring briar
ayo tf going on
humble mulch
humble mulch
humble mulch
Lmao
Thought that was gonna be a segway to your sumerian rap
Also time to Google Potsdam
somber knoll
Nani?
Sumerian rap is based though.
spring briar
potsdam is the city under berlin
it's pretty big
but everyone forgets about it
me, a SUmerian
when suddenly
boom
akkadians
dies
somber knoll
semi Chad then
humble mulch
Why does Clement look like a fascist
Like
He looks like a fresh out the book dictator
maiden citrus
why is stalin wearing adidas in the 1940s
spring briar
well Sargon was the first true world emperor so
literally king of the universe
now that's a title
somber knoll
yes
spring briar
that's a gigachad in my book
dusty kraken
Stalin invented Adidas dont you know
somber knoll
I figured Stalin wanted to squat in that photo
humble mulch
Wasn't
Adidas a German who's brother made Puma?
spring briar
WW2: I sleep
Bronze age collapse: REAL SHIT
silver crest
yea
spring briar
silver crest
they were brothers
they had an arguement or something
that's why adidas and puma split
strong plank
fun fact about FDR, actually, it’s partially thanks to him that the USN finally decided that aimed gunnery was something worth pursuing
silver crest
fun fact about FDR, actually, it’s partially thanks to him that the USN finally ...
wdym
spring briar
imagine
dusty kraken
What do you mean they didnt aim before
spring briar
I think regal means in terms of AA
strong plank
or targeted gunnery, I forgot the exact term
somber knoll
fun fact about FDR, actually, it’s partially thanks to him that the USN finally ...
I figure had he lived longer he might have authorized the Montanas. Key word, might
spring briar
that they tried to disrupt planes from drops by shooting AA in front of the plane
instead of shooting at the plane
junior trench
I figure had he lived longer he might have authorized the Montanas. Key word, _m...
they were authorized lol
strong plank
no that’s not it Richy
somber knoll
they were authorized lol
as in actually built them mb.
maiden citrus
Your ship has been added to queue, our apologies, the dockyards are currently producing an entire planet worth of essex, would you like to wait?
strong plank
So it’s mostly thanks to admiral William sims, who in the early 1900s was one of the navy’s attachés for Europe
maiden citrus
sims was immensely based yeah
somber knoll
So it’s mostly thanks to admiral William sims, who in the early 1900s was one of...
gotta thank the little cat.
spring briar
sims had a cool hairstyle
he looked like he was some capitol inhabitant in the hunger games
idk
I'm weird like that
strong plank
He saw what the other countries were doing with gunnery training, I think it was the brits, and went ‘hey we should try that’
somber knoll
also, that was when the US started building pre-dreadnoughts or smth?
strong plank
and was laughed at by the higher ups in the navy
spring briar
kekw
strong plank
so as a last ditch effort, sims wrote directly to FDR
who, having served as assistant secretary of the navy, thought it was a great idea and made him the Navy’s Inspector of Naval Gunnery
maiden citrus
he also taught britain how convoys work
spring briar
is this a certified USN moment?
spring briar
he also taught britain how convoys work
together with that one British admiral noone remembers the name of
spiral cedar
The Prime Minister?
spring briar
no
somber knoll
Beatty?
somber knoll
figure it was the other one, Sir Lewis Bayly?
somber knoll
might be
From Simpson:
The combined Anglo-American naval war against U-boats in the western approaches to the British Isles in 1917–18 was a success due to ability of Sims to work smoothly with his British counterpart, Admiral Sir Lewis Bayly.
spring briar
yeah that's the one then
spiral cedar
spring briar
otherwise good luck convincing them
somber knoll
so as a last ditch effort, sims wrote directly to FDR
btw, that's Teddy not Frank.
maiden citrus
I think I’m one of the only people that wank them
spiral cedar
No
maiden citrus
So it’s pretty rare
spiral cedar
It was an accidental explosion
maiden citrus
Yeah regardless of the cause it was accidental
spring briar
I think I’m one of the only people that wank them
sike
you clearly haven't met me
sniffs brown cocoa powder
maiden citrus
B and acr oh my
ivory ridge
spring briar
*sniffs brown cocoa powder*
The late 1800s saw the development of brown or cocoa powders which burned more slowly, allowing guns like the 12"/35 (30.5 cm) to have longer barrels with higher muzzle velocities
sniffs cocoa
spring briar
Luca Tarigo?
maiden citrus
cocoa is so good
spring briar
nou
also
damn
never heard of the battle of the Tarigo convoy
maka let's talk about usn pre dreads
what's your favourite
Mississippi?
maiden citrus
I wonder how you could guess that was one of my favorites
spring briar
I do wonder
maiden citrus
was it the enormous armament for such smol ship? hehe
I do like both them and the conneticuts a lot
spring briar
hmm
maiden citrus
and fixes the problems that keasarge had
spring briar
what steel was used?
spring briar
makes sense
maiden citrus
and had sloped turret designs
maiden citrus
yeah just they were the last ones that used harvey, so the armor could technically be better, hehe
maiden citrus
they look great though
and eh, the turrets are probably the best protected part as they're 'modern style' turrets instead of the round things
also only one secondary gun size, so efficent ships going forwards with the power of retrospect
spring briar
I see they closed off the forward casemates
spring briar
love the stacks
maiden citrus
and then the missisipi class photo that makes it sure clear they are packing
7'' 8'' twins and 12'' twins all above weather deck level
spring briar
very impressive
maiden citrus
maiden citrus
on a ship the weight of a mogami and the length of a fletcher
spring briar
maiden citrus
the 7'' was considered pretty good at the time, though that obviously interfered with identifying 8'' vs 7'' splashes
the 8'' are high performance smokeless powder ones
spring briar
7" is also smokeless tho?
maiden citrus
yeah just they had gotten rid of them for a while, then the smokeless powder version came into being and they salivated
spring briar
maiden citrus
also
During World War I, a "flat-nose" shell was developed for use against submarines. The flat nose allowed the projectile to travel through water with reasonable accuracy.
spring briar
ye
maiden citrus
anti sub 8'' gun moment
spring briar
technical exchange
maiden citrus
the 7'' one was going to be shipped to france as an artillery piece, but war wound down
🇺🇸 🤝 🇫🇷
7'' artillery
maiden citrus
I wonder how such a setup would have worked in later conflicts, I don't think things like the brooklyn's had trouble identifying 5'' vs 6'', so hm
spring briar
fuchsia and sky blue
but not sky blue because you wouldn't be able to spot the hit with the sky in the background
maiden citrus
me attempting to explain to my navy why the main, secondary and aa gun dyes should be red white and blue
installation of cage masts
maiden citrus
freedome, disciplene
maiden citrus
wow this is surprisingly good
spring briar
for legal reasons that's a joke
ivory ridge
Luca Tarigo?
Yes
spring briar
maiden citrus
-baywatch gif-
ivory ridge
maiden citrus
maiden citrus
a very tiny italian torpedoboot
ivory ridge
Bote 
maiden citrus
description says it is torpedo boat 56 as (ansaldo shipyard)
spring briar
Undy and I, descendants from the Urnfeld culture
defenders of Europe
Sea peoples
enders of the bronze age
first users of iron
maiden citrus
can't post pictures
spring briar
spring briar
jebart
maiden citrus
when did france/italy first use iron?
spring briar
11th century bc
maiden citrus
spring briar
generally after the late bronze age collapse
maiden citrus
my european less recent history isn't all that great
surprisingly we used iron at similar times, such as the olmec using it for mail armor, but it's not smelted
spring briar
but iron really only became widespread in europe around 500 bc
actually smelting iron really didn't happen until like
viking times
since the temperature needed is just so high
maiden citrus
yeah just that often gets us not counted as entering the iron age to some people
when it's like, but bro, the iron ore is right there
spring briar
as long as they can forge it it counts for me lol
even with garbage iron it's still gonna do better than bronze
maiden citrus
spring briar
junior trench
eh
not really
in terms of material properties the average bronze is better than the average iron
the problem is availability
and later, steel
spring briar
in terms of material properties the average bronze is better than the average ir...
even when work hardened?
cause to get a bronze sword of better hardness than a workhardened iron sword you need a high tin, workhardened bronze
junior trench
you can just hammer a bent bronze weapon or tool back into shape, and hammer an edge back onto them
which also hardens the edge
maiden citrus
well we had arsenic bronze too, just thought I'd see what you thought of that
spring briar
the switch was more so in blades
bronze was still getting used in armor far into the iron age
since you want that ductility and ability to not shatter
maiden citrus
it also took the spanish over 100 years to notice native americans could work with platinum
and learn how to
spring briar
and all in all tin was so rare back then that the switch was logical
Rimush (2nd king of Akkad) allegedly ordered a tin statue of himself
kind of the equivalent of ordering an iridium statue of yourself today
maiden citrus
In 1735, Antonio de Ulloa and Jorge Juan y Santacilia saw Native Americans mining platinum while the Spaniards were travelling through Colombia and Peru for eight years. Ulloa and Juan found mines with the whitish metal nuggets and took them home to Spain. Antonio de Ulloa returned to Spain and established the first mineralogy lab in Spain and was the first to systematically study platinum, which was in 1748.
maiden citrus
junior trench
kind of the equivalent of ordering an iridium statue of yourself today
how stardew valley of him
spring briar
mf literally uses the equivalent of 10 full armies weaponry worth of tin for one statue
no wonder he got assassinated
spring briar
the problem is availability
and the difficulty involved in making bronze castings
and in simply forging it
cold working is painfully tedious
junior trench
what if he commissioned an aluminum statue
spring briar
damn
maybe he would've gotten a lead statue
but damn Tutankhamun's iron dagger would've been epic to see
junior trench
meteoric iron/near steel sort of thing iirc
which is head and shoulders above the average iron
spring briar
yes
nickel
instead of going with this much cooler narrative
marvel went with vibranium
I sleep
maiden citrus
have a good sleeple
maiden citrus
I work nights, so I just got home a bit ago
spring briar
ah
maiden citrus
spring briar
spring briar
@manic latch post soyuz bow
manic latch
<@688903088819404825> post soyuz bow
keen crow
Question: new AP shell who was it on
manic latch
Question: new AP shell who was it on
British ships with 381mm
Richel knows it better
keen crow
British ships with 381mm
@rocky wigeon
rocky wigeon
manic latch
Yo Richel give details
You know the shells
@spring briar
Bitch i know you are here
keen crow
Smh asleep on the job
spring briar
Question: new AP shell who was it on
The 6crh projectile was introduced in 1938. Originally, these new projectiles were limited to Warspite, Renown, Valiant and Queen Elizabeth. In other words, they were only issued to those ships with the upgraded Mark I/N or Mark I*/N mountings. This was apparently because the projectile handling equipment on the non-modernized ships could not accommodate the longer 6crh shell. Those ships that did not get this handling system upgrade (including HMS Hood) could not use these longer shells, so in their place they were given projectiles with the same shell body and cap but fitted with a shorter 4crh windscreen similar to the older APC Mark Va -- the shells were heavier due to a thicker AP cap and a blunter pointed nose under it (1.3crh), but they were the same length as the earlier Mark Va shells. Following a refit in mid-1940, Barham was outfitted with 6crh projectiles and the surviving ships were modified to use them from late-1941 to mid-1943. Hood, Royal Oak and Repulse apparently never carried 6crh projectiles, as they were all sunk before the necessary modifications could take place.
Good good
keen crow
keen crow
```
The 6crh projectile was introduced in 1938. Originally, these new projectile...
@rocky wigeon have fun reading that
manic latch
@spring briar
Therapist: Paris with Soyuz style bow is not real. It can't hurt you
spring briar
yeee
After her conversion to "Royal Yacht" in 1947, HMS Vanguard rarely carried any main gun ammunition at all and little secondary or AA ammunition, as she had become badly overloaded. "X" turret was put into a state of preservation and was never made functional again while "Y" turret was rendered inoperable in order to allow the use of a sunroom on the after deck. In 1951 Vanguard was tasked as the Home Fleet flagship but she had become primarily a peacetime status symbol. In 1952 the Gunnery Division of the Naval Staff estimated that it would take seven months to get her operational as a warship again. Main armament shoots were seldom performed during this time and those that were conducted used just the forward turrets and are said to have been primarily intended as morale boosters rather than for serious gunnery training. "HMS Vanguard was a pleasant and spacious flagship, but a Naval Staff anxious to increase her combat efficiency seemed faced with a choice between filling an overweight ship with ammunition or with fuel should she actually ever be made into a fully combatant unit." - Eric Grove in "Vanguard to Trident." In 1955, Vanguard was decommissioned for a refit and weight reduction program which was intended to make three of her four turrets operational and allow them to carry their full outfit of 15 inch (38.1 cm) shells for the first time since 1946. Half of her secondary and AA armament was also to be made functional during this refit. However, this program was halted in March of 1956 and she was then placed in reserve. She was sent to the scrapyard in 1960.
UR moment
ivory ridge
Question: new AP shell who was it on
Tldr, every royal navy ship with 381mm ship not sunk by 1943
maiden citrus
I mean hey at least her bow seakeeping is good
spring briar
keen crow
Tldr, every royal navy ship with 381mm ship not sunk by 1943
I don’t know any of these things, asked for a friend
maiden citrus
just ignore the uh, lower specs on literally everything and not actually being a functional military unit even if the paper specs were true
ivory ridge
maiden citrus
even the aa guns had reduced ammunition
spring briar
fun fact: Vanguard had yellow dye in her shells
spring briar
but new!
ivory ridge
So true
spring briar
please don't use "so true" when you're actually agreeing
ivory ridge
spring briar
ivory ridge
spring briar
so true
spring briar
trying to outdo a jet developed in the 80's
ivory ridge
delicate beacon
desert agate
please don't use "so true" when you're actually agreeing
So true
chilly osprey
@ivory ridge So, looks like Paolo Thaon di Revel is going to Qatar in mid-August.
She's escorting two ships being delivered to the Qatari navy
manic latch
trying to outdo a jet developed in the 80's
As if anyone managed to make a plane better than F22 that's not US
I still have doubts on even Tempest on passing F-22
Or maybe we are greatly overestimating F-22. She is still using the electronics and systems from 1980 doesn't she? Mostly the reason why people say F35 is better is the technological advantages
exotic scarab
Maka
I hate saying this
But by pure technically by including propaganda and pe...
it came out this year tho
spring briar
chilly osprey
I mean, yeah, in terms of computing power the F-35 is waaaay ahead of the F-22. The electronics are 15-20 years younger and the system as a whole is intended to work with other systems and be upgraded far more than anything in the 80s ever was.
manic latch
I mean, yeah, in terms of computing power the F-35 is waaaay ahead of the F-22. ...
So what's the reason F-22 still being seen as a God even today. I mean yes it was a technological marvel during 1980s but even after decades with no major upgrade it still seen as that being
Is it the "looks good= is good" logic?
desert agate
Still has a better radar than anything except the F-35
junior trench
1980s computing power at that scale isn't exactly small
and is basically where all other planes are at, at best, anyway
manic latch
spring briar
Sumerian computing power vs Ubaid computing power
desert agate
How many fps could they run on CS:GO?
delicate beacon
Can it run doom?
spring briar
How many fps could they run on CS:GO?
one clay tablet per half hour
so
about 0.0000000000001 fps?
chilly osprey
@spring briar Would you happen to know how thick the plating Dunkerque's belt was secured against was?
I know there's a 60mm teak backing but I'm trying to figure out what was behind that
chilly osprey
Not that I can see
I'm trying to figure out why the increase described earlier in the book is given as from 230mm to 250mm when they expanded protection to be against the 305mm
The deck armor is reported as going to 140/130mm, which makes sense - that's just adding the 15mm backing plate
But the belt is confusing me
spring briar
I'll see what I can find
chilly osprey
My two hypothesises are;
-
It's counting a 25mm backing plate
-
It's including the effect of the 11.5° incline
spring briar
My two hypothesises are;
1) It's counting a 25mm backing plate
2) It's includi...
11.30° for Dunkek
11.50° for Strasbourg
chilly osprey
11°30 = 11.5° for Dunkerque
11°50 for Strasbourg is 11.83°
chilly osprey
Yeah Jordan and Dumas seem to be giving it in minutes rather than decimals
Otherwise they shouldn't be putting the degree symbol right after the whole number
spiral cedar
11°30radians
chilly osprey
... you wouldn't mix radians and degrees, no?
spring briar
not normally
spring briar
blame the Sumerians
spiral cedar
Is this some dark arcane math f*ckery I'm not aware
No
Just me being annoying about unspecified units
spring briar
anyways I hope that answers your question, phoe
chilly osprey
It helps a lot, yeah
desert agate
anyways I hope that answers your question, phoe
I didn't read the p on that
And got slightly
Concerned
chilly osprey
Lol
spring briar
Yes hoe
fierce sparrow
manic latch
So let's do Stealth rating for planes
F-35> B-21?>F-22>B-2?>F-117?> J-20>Su-57
Yeah kinda unsure about bombers
B-21 is much smaller and younger than B-2 so it gotta have better stealth
junior trench
??? > ??? > ??? > ??? > ??? > ??? > Su-57/Clean Super Hornet
manic latch
??? > ??? > ??? > ??? > ??? > ??? > Su-57/Clean Super Hornet
What's your version
Ah
Don't be sad 57, I still love you 
shrewd pecan
At this point I’m pretty sure the F-15 has better RCS than the Su-57
junior trench
nah
F-15 asserts dominance through having an old school RCS and the enemy not being able to do shit about it
rapid junco
@delicate beacon
The guy who took this picture said he took it today
Around
5 or 6 AM
And they didn't refloat her yet as Cordova had said
manic latch
At this point I’m pretty sure the F-15 has better RCS than the Su-57
Because Su-57 is bigger?
"China is planning to conduct a flight test for an important type of aircraft that has crucial strategic significance
The remark was made by Ge Heping, Party chief of the Chinese Flight Test Establishment, AVIC at a rally meeting on Tuesday"
manic latch
"China is planning to conduct a flight test for an important type of aircraft th...
Please be H-20 
desert agate
manic latch
shrewd pecan
Tejas export
manic latch
Heard rumours of China offering deal to Saudi to mass produce FC-31 together
Or let's say, the company that owns the FC-31
chilly osprey
I'm sure US intelligence would be thrilled at the opportunity to look at FC-31's
spiral cedar
@spring briar Do you have any info on whether the MN tested the K dye bags to see whether colored hit flashes were visually distinct from colored shell splashes under low visibility conditions?
cinder escarp
The FC-31 isn't a product, they were three unique demonstrators
manic latch
The FC-31 isn't a product, they were three unique demonstrators
Rumours begin with this I think
delicate beacon
Search something.
Only 3 results.
One of them is Quora
frigid karma
Anything funny
frigid karma
sanglune is either taking antiseptics, preserving biological matter, or making bombs
tender monolith
why pick one?
subtle prawn
delicate beacon
Hmmm French 87mm AA gun with 110rpm
spring briar
fierce sparrow
tribal mortar
Is there a ship in #game-news
tribal mortar
just wondering
Nah, in historical context
Or did my question is wrong
Yeah imma search what she looks like in real life
manic latch
Yeah imma search what she looks like in real life
She doesn't exist irl
tribal mortar
eternal veldt
repost, just in case anyone asks in this channel.
Oops. I see a typo. I am no longer credible. 
ivory ridge
Now post it on reddit
eternal veldt
Im waiting for all 5/6 ships first.
Along with book references.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Plymouth_(F126)
Any time now...
subtle prawn
Ouch
spring briar
me literally two days ago in another discord:
L'Indomptable, Le Terrible and Le Triomphant stripped their turbines just after launch
Le Malin couldn't "shift in gear" so to say
L'Audacieux had some firebricks fall off on the inside of her boiler
and Le Fantasque grounded
Quite an eventful early life
lolw
alpine onyx
you forgot the follow up
I may use this to write off all French turbines as 100% unreliable regardless of how other ships performed
eternal veldt
Should I call this the Veneto Syndrome at this point
alpine onyx
manic latch
```I may use this to write off all French turbines as 100% unreliable regardless...
Know the feel
alpine onyx
looks at WG
"If Soyuz had been built, she would've been the cream of the world's shipbuilding"
manic latch
"If Soyuz had been built, she would've been the cream of the world's shipbuildin...
And they hated WG because they told them the truth
alpine onyx
manic latch
Would be the largest BB of Europe. 
Unless Germany buils H-42
It's fucking weird Alsace is 45k tons still
That's 20k lighter than Soyuz
spring briar
it's called efficient engineering
manic latch
it's called efficient engineering
But Richel was 43k tons full weight. How it's possible
spring briar
"If Soyuz had been built, she would've been the cream of the world's shipbuildin...
it's still one of their more entertaining naval legends episodes
innacurate or not
manic latch
Yeah it made people mald
Since they aren't used to learning about BB that's not Yamato, Iowa, Bismarck
alpine onyx
It was more like listening to a Wehraboo talking about Bismarck
just with Soyuz
and with more "what if"
spring briar
also Soyuz is definitely overweight due to her sheer width
her overall armor thickness being much thicker than that of the iowas to mitigate the steel being of lower quality etc
manic latch
also Soyuz is definitely overweight due to her sheer width
her overall armor th...
Difference is only 70mm
Her magazine armor causes the real weight
Since that part goes 400mm+
alpine onyx
you mean a lower belt?
manic latch
Like belt under turrets.
Does her main belt cover there?
Since it turns to thicker armor for ships like Soyuz and Vanguard
alpine onyx
the belt covers the entire length from the bulkhead forward of the A turret until the bulkhead aft of the steering (tho thinning down a good bit aft of the bulkhead behind turret C)
and is a uniform 305-310ish mm
manic latch
Yeah find it
It covers
Tho
Kinda weird thing
Why her ass gets the 343mm?
The part above her propellers
alpine onyx
oh it was thicker there
not thinner, confused them with the NCs
probably because there was less if any of an incline there
while the main belt had 19°
manic latch
Soo let's see
Yamato: 72k tons
Montana: 72k tons
Soyuz: 65k Tons
H-39: 63k tons
Iowa (not cold war): 57,540 tons
Vanguard: 51k Tons
Alsace: unknown. Likely 50k tons?
Lion: 47k tons
Full load only
spring briar
which alsace version
manic latch
which alsace version
12 380
dapper parcel
I always have problem when someone comparing theoretical design with real ship, since invariably they assume almost best (or at least better) case scenario for the theoretical ship while the actual ship suffer from incremental patchwork for problems discovered during construction & service.
I mean, who knows Soyuz won't get Mogami'd
manic latch
I always have problem when someone comparing theoretical design with real ship, ...
Soyuz surely won't pass 72k tons would she
spring briar
alsace with 12 380's I'd put at around 55-56k max
dapper parcel
But yeah I don't believe British when they say Lion 47k full weight
This was mostly before they found out how awful KGV was so 
spring briar
chilly osprey
51,500 tonnes metric for Alsace N°3 at normal load. So, 50,690 long tons
So full load is probably circa 3-4k tons greater than that
Depends on how large her fuel stowage is. Normal load is half of fuel bunkerage in French practice at the time, iirc?
chilly osprey
XD
chilly osprey
Anywho, idk why there's much surprise over Soyuz weighing so much more than the Alsace N°3 design. She's a physically larger ship (beam is 3.4 meters greater), has a poor hull form, a hull that is likely very weight inefficient and definitely sub-par in construction method (USSR could not do continuous welding, so they were reliant on riveting and spot welding), and above all boasts heavier armor (in raw thickness if not efficiency).
spring briar
yeap
they even say it
in the naval legends episode
like
multiple times
very underarmed for a ship of her size
spring briar
definitely the best option
ivory ridge
chilly osprey
"This will not strain our industrial base that is totally able to meet the minimum required for our cocaine-fueled planning in the first place"
[Said moments before Stalin started purging people and making things dramatically worse]
eternal veldt
dapper parcel
Did they bank on carbon diffusion process being linearly scalable or something?
Metallurgy is certainly interesting (to me at least) but not often talked about in detail
I wonder if it also due to their design bureau never touch grass being completely separate from their construction yard 
As in, the distribution makes sense for a design engineer, but not to a production engineer
eternal veldt
If you're asking about why the scheme is arranged this way, it's to do more with protection philosophy
dapper parcel
I remember it have something to do with LOS armor thickness from certain angle of engagement
dapper parcel
What I'm trying to say was that the complex distribution makes sense theoretically, to a design engineer who want to optimize everything to the fullest
But not to a production engineer, who want everything to be uniform flat square plate
manic latch
But not to a production engineer, who want everything to be uniform flat square ...
That only happens with Project 23Bis. Simplifying the armor scheme
chilly osprey
What I'm trying to say was that the complex distribution makes sense theoretical...
That tends to be the case when you look at how the Projekt 23 and other projects at the time were designed.
The Soviets wanted everything to be the best they could possible, in terms of armament, protection, speed, endurance, seakeeping, etc - but put very little thought into how that could be achieved, the complexity of construction, adverse impacts of certain qualities they wanted, and this helped turn many of the designs of that era into engineering disasters.
spring briar
eh they atleast incorporated the steel issues
chilly osprey
Not that there weren't people that couldn't see that this was the case, but it really wasn't the work environment where one could claim the entire project was unworkable
spring briar
I expect that soyuz as launched would have a long period of fixing issues
chilly osprey
Fundamentally the USSR really needed to wait another 5-7 years before trying to build battleships, especially ones of such ambitious scale
spring briar
probably 2+ years
chilly osprey
If they had worked through more cruiser designs and gotten a better grasp of how to build a cruiser that wasn't a mess (and they were almost there) and also given their naval industrial base a bit more time to hit the scale necessary to build capital ships, then they should have been perfectly able to build a decent battleship.
But the Projekt 23's (and 69's) were just way too early
They could not produce armor and components in the scale they required, and only a variable 30-60% of what they did produce was of sufficient quality to be usable, and that exacerbated all the design issues present that were completely independent of the production problems.
manic latch
I expect that soyuz as launched would have a long period of fixing issues
Depends.
If it's during war. Then she straight goes for Siege of Leningrad and spams those 406mms until she can't anymore
spring briar
if she gets there, sure
manic latch
if she gets there, sure
You underestimate the Soviet will. If she couldn't move then many smaller ships would try to drag her there
spring briar
I'm not saying she wouldn't
I'm just saying she could
manic latch
Or just enough range for 406mm
chilly osprey
She would not have any guns when launched...
tough quail
at the end of the day they just kinda started too late to get a properly good battleship going
spring briar
like a good bean stew
gotta start that up early in the morning
tough quail
they learned quickly given the hilarious jump in quality between kirov and chapayev but not fast enough to get an actual BB going before they went kaput
manic latch
She would not have any guns when launched...
Put Katyushas, 152mm, and 37mms on her, with many flaks
Mobile artillery platform
And of course 203mm artilleries
manic latch
<:Blessex:753375684126310451>
Imagine Soyuz with no turrets but 30 of these on her
chilly osprey
There are vastly more efficient methods of bringing in such firepower
manic latch
tough quail
sure there is
dapper parcel
Where such armaments could be sourced for a ship in Leningrad anyway?
tough quail
but half of the fun of the wartime VMF is them just janking guns on in the middle of being bombed
manic latch
but half of the fun of the wartime VMF is them just janking guns on in the middl...
Soyuz would likely get heavy damage like Marat
Since she would %100 get focus of German 210mms and Ju-87s
tough quail
having the giant slab of a deck is pretty helpful in that regard
i doubt she's going to pop like marat
spring briar
sometimes it ain't about efficiency or min maxin
sometimes you just gotta do watcha gotta do with whatcha got
no time for all this fancy shmancy stuff
hell naw
big guns and steel all ya need
tough quail
i dont think germoney has anything that's going to punch through a flat 6" deck, not to mention the 2" deck below it
chilly osprey
She shouldn't explode like Marat just given she's not going to have any ammunition or propellant on her
tough quail
great insight
spring briar
Sometimes you don’t even have to move
The enemy will come to you
Jean Bart moment
dapper parcel
the front fell off
manic latch
Kronk
spring briar
*the front fell off*
ivory ridge
spring briar
No no no no
spring briar
spring briar
🤮
maiden citrus
lolkongo
spring briar
also is parizhaya kommunia in wt??
frigid karma
damn, quick work on the plymouth page @eternal veldt
manic latch
also is parizhaya kommunia in wt??
With her refit yes
desert agate
clearly #history content very on topic definitely wouldnt fit better in #other-games
or something like that
gee wonder why cool people get warned and evicted but others get away with that sort of thing
really makes you think
ivory ridge
Sang getting evicted for posting AL content 
this server is a fucking joke i swear to god
maiden citrus
friendship ended with rogue translators, now rogue mod is my best friend
ivory ridge
and then you guys wonder why this server is made fun of in all the other AL servers
desert agate
no fun allowed now keep posting warship photos and ignoring the fact that this is an azur lane server and an azur lane official history channel
no azur lane allowed
ivory ridge
so true
why the fuck would you even evict one of the biggest contributors to the channel
do you guys just want to kill it
desert agate
you reckon if i start supporting russia i'd be able to avoid getting into trouble for posting off topic
ivory ridge
so true
ivory ridge
just ping the moderators for that
im sure they will be happy to do that
after all they caused the problem
alpine onyx
I can ask Mods about Project 1047?
maiden citrus
I would make a joke on how now we don't have to compensate the dutch with war prizes, but
alpine onyx
alpine onyx
and here I had blueprints of the 1940 type torpedobote, which was half Dutch
desert agate
too bad sang cant be here to enjoy it
desert agate
doesnt like russia enough clearly 
manic latch
doesnt like russia enough clearly <:bukiPride:628994546566692874>
Makes sense
tough quail
because certain mods have critical synapse failures and their brains tumble out of their skulls
maiden citrus
be careful talking about new pr ships
desert agate
some are cool tho love you tea
manic latch
frigid karma
Hey guys does anyone know how [redacted] is related to edinburgh
desert agate
hey should we tell the mods to unpin silvers pr ships document?
because
its clearly offtopic
frigid karma
especially fake
and
nonhistorical ships
tough quail
what a fucking moron
desert agate
hey no horse you'll get warned for that
frigid karma
how dare he post about pr ships
tough quail
horrifying
alpine onyx
So if we talk about Roon, it'd be bannable, because Roon is as unhistorical of a ship as she could be?
ivory ridge
last time about the vanguard announcement being changed from KGV to vanguard class
maiden citrus
pros: mentioning roon is bannable
ivory ridge
totally not history
tough quail
well no she's actually plenty historical, ironically enough
ivory ridge
nonono
maiden citrus
cons: mentioning roon is bannable
alpine onyx
Okay fair
tough quail
which still baffles me to this day
alpine onyx
but the inspiration is so awful the artist did the right thing
frigid karma
barely resemble an actual turret, let alone the real gun
tough quail
no but thats not it
its not that he drew her badly
the actual ship parts are accurate and detailed well enough
manic latch
i mean, look at haku's 100mm gun or drake's early sketches
Abruzzi's guns oh no no 
tough quail
..just
for the wrong ship
she has enormous 283mm turrets, too many 6" guns and a P-class funnel
manic latch
Still better than Hutten. She only has a Scythe for "hull"
frigid karma
also uh
georgia 127 💀
maiden citrus
georgia is georgia, enough said
please don't ban me for talking about a pr ship
tough quail
spon was the red mod all along
maiden citrus
at least you won't get evicted
eager dove
spon sus
desert agate
amogus
maiden citrus
since protected class and all
tough quail
wait maybe thats why we keep getting completely asinine bannings
spon is just doing it while drunk
desert agate
im not drunk im just really really tired
maiden citrus
berci didn't get banned he got promoted to red mod
eager dove
least power hungry internet janitor
maiden citrus
desert agate
oh fuck
tough quail
you can discuss among us only after ten years have passed since someone last made an amogus joke
then it counts as history
maiden citrus
so I can discuss skyrim
manic latch
a mod is ghosting us right now
tough quail
yes we're aware
eager dove
there are orange names inside my walls
desert agate
its the reds tho
tough quail
how does skyrim affect geopolitics
manic latch
Imagine If dragons were real. Ships would invest on AA faster
spiral cedar
Dragons are from an anime, meaning it’s off topic. Banned
tough quail
but the AL anime had those bizarrely detailed and accurate warship models
tough quail
you know what that means boys
manic latch
Nooo
maiden citrus
how does skyrim affect geopolitics
on one hand, skyrim belongs to the nords, on the other hand...
tough quail
since boats are now banned do y'all want to talk about
somber knoll
D for Dragon
desert agate
no horse theres that tank girl game thats banned too now
tough quail
fuck
spiral cedar
Just don’t if they’re too funny. As that might make them qualify as a meme and those are banned
maiden citrus
idk, kinda hard to feel like being in this server with people like that calling shots
somber knoll
looks for topic from recent Gun Jesus videos
welp nope.
spiral cedar
<:MonkaW:779553442308947968> <:NKVD:943648977482575972>
More than 1 emote used as reaction = emote spam. Banned
somber knoll
poof
manic latch
maiden citrus
was that kremlin caring if I'm here or not
manic latch
Classified
spring briar
Damn
maiden citrus
you had a chance to be wholesome right there
maiden citrus
we're attempting to decide what history counts as
desert agate
you guys banned it
spring briar
I like the bronze age
ivory ridge
Where fair moderation?
tough quail
well we had some until y'all banned one of the regulars for talking about the PR girls
it do be like that sometimes
spring briar
Poor sang
maiden citrus
maybe he was almost done building a capital ship
and that's why he randomly got banned
poor dutch
tough quail
the wehrmacht at it again
thorny scarab
You guys realize he’s evicted for off topic and not banned, right.
somber knoll
I like the bronze age
I prefer early Iron, but bronze is fine too
manic latch
How long evict lasts
desert agate
yeah and its kinda unfair because it was literally on topic
tough quail
just as stupid, given relating the new girls to history is a completely valid topic
maiden citrus
ah yes there's my warn
desert agate
he was just moving an off topic discussion out of #al-lore into #history where it could be on topic
spring briar
I prefer early Iron, but bronze is fine too
But Late bronze better than early iron
frigid karma
off topic
literally server about AL
new ship called plymouth comes out and he explains he's asking for historical info on it
spring briar
How long evict lasts
Permanent
frigid karma
too bad it wasn't a russian pr, maybe he'd be here
spring briar
For whatever reason
manic latch
too bad it wasn't a russian pr, maybe he'd be here
I'm here 
somber knoll
But Late bronze better than early iron
sadly yeah
best Hoplite armor was late bronze too
alpine onyx
@spring briar yo, did I ask you for data on the turning behaviour of the Dunkeks already? If not, hand the data over
spring briar
Then again. Sometimes due to sheer chance a bloke managed to make mild steel
ivory ridge
You guys realize he’s evicted for off topic and not banned, right.
My brother in christ you just evicted one of the biggest contributor of historical discussions for posting a fucking official tweet
spring briar
<@450678921512353792> yo, did I ask you for data on the turning behaviour of the...
Still haven’t found it after all that time
alpine onyx
maiden citrus
and are spam warning people for being upset about it
spring briar
alpine onyx
do you have sum for Richie maybe?
fast nacelle
This is certainly not the channel to be upset about it
manic latch
My brother in christ you just evicted one of the biggest contributor of historic...
Oh he posted as a tweet not a picture?
Since similar thing happened when someone shared Vanguard tweet here
ivory ridge
Literally 1984
maiden citrus
the one dude here who knew everything about the dutch navy
ivory ridge
Warning one user after the other wont fix anythinf
spiral cedar
Literally 1984
Unfortunately, 1984 also got evicted from the channel
frigid karma
This is certainly not the channel to be upset about it
Where is the channel to be upset about it?
strong plank
This is certainly not the channel to be upset about it
ok then, where would be an appropriate place to voice reasonable complaints then?
fast nacelle
Them being your friend or not is irrelevant, please refocus your discussion here
frigid karma
fast nacelle
#discord-feedback literally in the name
manic latch
spring briar
Wrong reply xd
spring briar
do you have sum for Richie maybe?
Maaaaaybe
strong plank
so wait lemme get this straight
maiden citrus
and what will that do when you shot down the appeal
frigid karma
it's not that he's our friend, but that he's literally one of the biggest contributor of various historical blueprints and designs
tough quail
regal has entered the arena
strong plank
posting an official AL tweet = ban
repeating authoritarian propaganda = all good man
tough quail
oh no teas actually here
maiden citrus
well we should listen to what he has to say
strong plank
y'all mods need to police each other the same way you police us
humble mulch
Guys
I'll be the one who fucking mutes you all
please go to #discord-feedback and voice your concerns there. You will unironcally get warned for bitching in here regardless of what it is. Write out your paragraphs and send it there.
tough quail
i think you kinda missed the part where nobody really cares
spiral cedar
History eh…how about the history of stupid laws throughout history? That should be fine 
maiden citrus
well I guess that's that, it's a lost cause
tough quail
there's a point where the system breaks down
spring briar
I’m french
We can talk about revolution
frigid karma
go to #discord-feedback and what? tell the mods to stop banning people for reasonable things? good luck lmao
spiral cedar
Since the 19th century, marrying a corpse – aka necromancy – has been legal in France. This dates back to times when being born out of wedlock was a social taboo. If your husband died in battle before you could get married, and you were pregnant, necromancy made your children legitimate. The dead’s consent is established by family members or an existing engagement. The law took its specific, current form in 1959 after a dam burst, killing 423 people.
frigid karma
it's france
spring briar
“They got is in the first half”-legislature
spiral cedar
In 1571, Parliament passed a law forcing all non-nobles to wear a wool cap on Sundays and holidays. Lawbreakers faced a 3-farthing fine. Parliament passed the officious legislation to boost the domestic wool industry, which found itself in dire straits in 1571. This law was absurd even in its day, and Parliament repealed it in 1597.
tough quail
y'all want some bmps fam
strong plank
yo
should we put together some sort of irl history Q&A on the new PRs like jaba did for vanguard?
alpine onyx
Tank went through a cold river
spring briar
y'all want some bmps fam
Can’t post pictures due to image ban
strong plank
or would that get a warn too
spring briar
frigid karma
even the fucking dolphins
A village on the coast of France has banned swimming in the presence of Zafar, a bottlenose dolphin that has become problematically horny.
Roger Lars, the mayor of Landévennec, issued a regulation last week that prohibits people from swimming and diving on the shoreline when Zafar is present, as well as coming within 50 yards of him.
spring briar
Ayo my brother Zafar
strong plank
Can’t post pictures due to image ban
what too many shell pics does to a mf
ivory ridge
should we put together some sort of irl history Q&A on the new PRs like jaba did...
We have Silver's doc
spring briar
Ikr
ivory ridge
Close enough probably
tough quail
im going to laugh my ass clean off my body if they actually axe that pin
spiral cedar
1957 so it counts as history
In Calaveras County, California, the annual frog-jumping contest is a big draw. The contest is won by the croaker that jumps the furthest. An incredible 4,000 frogs entered in 2007 alone. Frog-jumping competitions are serious business, and subject to a baffling 1957 state law. ‘If such a frog dies or is killed, it… may not be eaten or otherwise used for any purpose’.
spring briar
strong plank
An incredible 4,000 frogs entered in 2007 alone
somber knoll
Then again. Sometimes due to sheer chance a bloke managed to make mild steel
late, but yep. the early steel smelting was pretty much crude to at some point being a bronze casting byproducts. the bloomery process wouldn't be established until at least the first millenium AD
strong plank
how
tough quail
these frogs will be buried as war heroes
strong plank
the frogs themselves entered?
frigid karma
In the 1960s, NASA funded an experiment to teach dolphins how to make human-like sounds and learn English. Though most of the trainers would work during the day and leave at night, one trainer, Margaret Howe Lovatt, decided to take it one step further and live in the facility with a dolphin named Peter, according to a 2014 article in The Guardian. But Peter soon began showing sexual interest in Lovatt, rubbing himself against her knee, foot or hand. Eventually, when the experiments ended, Peter was transported to another facility, where he allegedly "committed suicide" by consciously not taking another breath, according to The Guardian.
😔
tough luck bro
spring briar
late, but yep. the early steel smelting was pretty much crude to at some point b...
People should stop shitting on bronze
strong plank
> In the 1960s, NASA funded an experiment to teach dolphins how to make human-li...
I hate that I've heard of this before
frigid karma
also, what the fuck was NASA doing to teach DOLPHINS fucking NEGLISH
tough quail
probably some neo MKUltra nonsense
tough quail
we're going to teach dolphins to seduce PLAN officers
strong plank
some scientists probably did a line of coke before watching free willy
frigid karma
yeah but their vocal range is
spiral cedar
And there were various linguistic theories about language aquisition
strong plank
also wait
spiral cedar
Someone needed to try it