history

[peak mango]

sounds horrible. Anyway most of the autosails also don't require tacking or other major route adjustments, which is a huge benefit over trad sailboats.

[narrow rover]

Let's hope the idea says alive

[peak mango]

I mean the shipping industry is money driven. If it's cheaper for them they'll do it.

[narrow rover]

I mean the leisure craft industry alone should keep innovations coming

[peak mango]

Fuel is money. Time is also money.

[narrow rover]

There's also a few cruise ships with sails ideas floating around

And a few built...

[peak mango]

Oh there's plenty amount the 'adventure' set.

But again, the big ones are a horrible place for them. They're already taller than heck and need active ballast just to not tip over. Those things are driven by 'how many passengers can we shove into 200m of ship' and 'how do we maximize revenue'. For those guys.. it's more the crew<>passenger ratio. Bigger boat = less crew per passenger = moar money.

They don't slow steam, they got schedules to meet lol.

But the 'expedition/adventure' types with barely 100pax on board? Totally there's a bunch availabe with sail.

But you're gonna be paying multiple the cost for the vacation.

[narrow rover]

Call me an asshole for saying this but
Burning more fuel than some cities just for people too rich to board Ryanair™ to get around
Just doesn't sound morally acceptable

[peak mango]

(Big) cruise ships aren't about getting around, it's about the onboard amenities and 'cruising experience 🙄 ' .. with short day stops maybe at densely 1-2 day between destinations.

[narrow rover]

I just don't get it lol
Like what's the fun in sailing around in a moving hotel block
Filled with retirees

[peak mango]

Heh I'm not the customer base, either. Been on plenty as an inspector, though.

[peak mango]

But here's the other thing - fuel burn per passenger mile is likely lower than ryanair 737s..

[narrow rover]

[peak mango]

Okay I did some maths (and double checked), looks like a modern 737 gets ~ 3l/100 passenger km. Cruise ship gets about 8l/100 (or 6l/100 if you count crew as being transported too). A modern compact hybrid car gets ~ 5/100. So more fuel than the 737, but it's in the same order of magnitude, and you're bringing a shopping mall and all your luggage with you.

[peak mango]

Anyway the fuel consumption per passenger km is more than a (solo driven) compact passenger car, but less than a sports car or large suv. So moral value of 'fun' (whether it's going zoom zoom or partying on the lido deck)?

[runic ermine]

I remember seeing a post on Twitter about this

[spring briar]

This is the tenth time I’ve seen this and its still not funny

[peak mango]

This was kinda cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njd2xvMcTx8

[desert agate]

https://x.com/lowlandsapien/status/1985131395862458565?s=46

Hugo (@lowlandsapien)

The Japanese landed near the Prince Regent River in 1944 looking for the secret Truscott Air Base and scouting for invasion. They were overcome with the desolation, lack of survivability, moving through spinifex and sandflies. They didn't last 48 hours.

X · Nov 2, 2025, 11:46 PM

Always interesting to see people learn just how dangerous the Australian interior really is

[runic ermine]

Natural defenses

[autumn sorrel]

Funny how Australia is an even worse hell to fight in than most other place in the Pacific

[junior trench]

The only Japanese force to land in Australia during World War II was a reconnaissance party that landed in the Kimberley region of Western Australia on 19 January 1944 to investigate reports that the Allies were building large bases in the region. The party consisted of four Japanese officers on board a small fishing boat. It investigated the York Sound region for a day and a night before returning to Kupang in Timor on 20 January. Upon returning to Japan in February, the junior officer who commanded the party suggested using 200 Japanese prison inmates to launch a guerrilla campaign in Australia. Nothing came of this and the officer was posted to other duties.[1]

they lived and wanted to come back

womp womp

On the evening of the 14 January 1944 a special Japanese Army Reconnaissance party left Koepang, in Timor on board a 25 ton fishing vessel called "Hiyoshi Maru". The party included:-

Lieutenant Susuhiko Mizuno
Sergeant Morita
Sergeant Furuhashi
Lance Corporal Kazuo Ito (radio operator)
6 sailors
15 Timorese (used as decoys)

Their orders from the 19th Army Headquarters on Ambon Island were to land on the north west shores of Western Australia. They were from the special "Matsu Kikan" (Pine-tree) secret agency which was commanded by Captain Masayoshi Yamamoto. They were all graduates of the Nakano Intelligence School. Their mission was undertaken at the request of the Japanese Navy to verify intelligence received from Navy sources that the United States Navy was building a Naval base at Admiralty Gulf.

Lieutenant Susuhiko Mizuno's role was to:-

• look at the possibility of landing in Australia
• Investigate the location for a landing place
• look for the existence of an military establishments

They encountered a large storm and heavy seas and had to turn back to Koepang on the morning of the 15 January 1944. They departed again on the evening of 16 January 1944.

The "Hiyoshi Maru" was given air cover for part of the voyage by a single Type 99 light bomber from the 7th Air Division based at Kendari. It was piloted by Staff Sergeant H. Aonuma with Hachiro Akai as Co-pilot. On 16 January 1944, the aircraft was heading directly for Cartier Islet when it saw an Allied submarine heading in the direction of the "Hiyoshi Maru". The submarine saw the Japanese aircraft approaching and immediately began to dive. The Japanese aircraft only managed to fire two bursts of its machine guns at the submarine as it submerged. The tracer bullets could be seen hitting the submarine. The Japs then dropped their six 50 kg bombs on the submarine. They then circled around the area three or four times to determine if they had hit it with one of their bombs. They suspected the submarine may have sustained some damage.

The aircraft continued south flying low to avoid the Allied radar sites situated along this remote coastline. They sighted the "Hiyoshi Maru" and continued south to try to locate Cartier Islet. When they could not find it they headed to the west. They then eventually located Cartier Islet.

At 9 am on 17 January 1944 the "Hiyoshi Maru" reached East Island which is actually a coral reef which is only visible at low tide. They reached Browse Island at about 10 am on 18 January 1944. They landed on the island where they found the ruins of a watch house.

They stayed on Browse Island for about 3 hours. This was to time their arrival on the nearby Australian mainland. The left the island at 1 pm on 18 January and the next morning through a morning mist they entered an inlet on the West Australian coast. They spotted some white smoke rising from a mountain on the mainland east of their location. They anchored by the shore at about 10 am on 19 January 1944. The landscape in that area consisted of many red colored rocks. They camouflaged the ship with tree branches and ate dried biscuits for lunch.

Three landing parties led by Lieutenant Susuhiko Mizuno, Sergeant Morita and Sergeant Furuhashi, went ashore and explored different areas of the Australian coast in that area for about two hours. They even took some 8 mm movie footage of what they saw. As it turned out they had landed only 25 kms from where the RAAF were several weeks later to start building their secret airfield at Truscott.

It was a very hot humid day. They all returned to the ship and reported to Lieutenant Susuhiko Mizuno on what they had seen. Besides some old campfires all they saw was lots of red rocks and lots of small trees. They slept on the ship that night and on 20 January 1944 they went ashore again and patrolled the area until about 2 pm. After finding nothing they decided to return to Timor.

This confirmed Japanese landing on the West Australian coast near Cartier Island and Browse Island coincided with a suspected landing on Mornington Island and Rocky Island in the Gulf of Carpentaria.

[autumn sorrel]

So basically, there's nothing to live off the ground, best they could do is raid?

[desert agate]

Yes they landed, saw nothing, achieved nothing and their idiotic plan to send 200 convicts would have found itself starving to death within a week and the survivors picked off by units like the NTSRU

[junior trench]

they arrived in the right place at the wrong time to look for the airfield

[autumn sorrel]

I think the seer was off by several months

[desert agate]

Having actually been to the area where the Japanese landed I can't imagine a more inhospitable location to land a force of any size

Particularly in 1944

[brittle glacier]

Big “It is okay HANZ, ve do not need vintner clothing! Ve bill conquer Russia in a month!” Vibes.

[desert agate]

There's basically no fresh water, absolutely no food, at least none that you can eat without the knowledge of the aboriginals, and the food that is present certainly isn't there in quantity to support a fighting force, no possibility of resupply and a number of large garrisons in the viscinity

It's not like 200 men is enough to attack Broome, the only settlement of any particular note in the area (still 600kms away)

Even today there's no roads, just small bush tracks and very little infrastructure to speak of

[junior trench]

aight

doesn't really change that the twitter post has a narrative you certainly embraced

[desert agate]

Agreed

[junior trench]

contrary to better records of the event

[remote monolith]

Siberia or the middle of the Sahara

or the Amazonian Rainforest

or the Tarim Basin

Central Kongo too

[desert agate]

I was more posting it in the context of people discussing ideas of a Japanese invasion rather than the specifics of that landing operation, the Twitter post wasn't the best to show that though

[desert agate]

Notably those are all inland

[junior trench]

right on the doorstep of any major Allied naval base

gunfire > climate

[desert agate]

Lae

[brittle glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/lmfao-lmao-laughing-laughing-hysterically-laughing-and-crying-gif-17366703318476009053

[remote monolith]

tbf not inner Siberia

or the coastal areas over the North Pole

[junior trench]

you sure you've got the right place

[remote monolith]

and even then, in Siberia you have entire region of volcanic death trap that basically nearly killed everything on earth that one time

[junior trench]

At Lae, the Japanese landed without opposition.[7] A small detachment of the New Guinea Volunteer Rifles and some men from the 2/22nd Infantry Battalion set about the demolition of key infrastructure around Salamaua, and after a minor skirmish which resulted in one Japanese casualty, they destroyed the bridge over the Francisco River and then withdrew into the hills towards Mubo.[9]

[desert agate]

Landing there certainly didn't go well for 200'000 Japanese troops

The NGVR and PIB were also notably brutal units

[narrow rover]

The K-bartana

[eternal veldt]

Stereotypes are funny, right?

[narrow rover]

IJN Glorious battleship armor folded 1000 times vs USS we built this yesterday #10000

[spring briar]

Mall ninja type shit

[mental tapir]

Italian Battleship
After draining a substantial portion of the 🇮🇹 budget and wine reserve in her design and construction, the Marina Dimenticata meets a "watery end" by way of surprise British torpedoes launched from ancient bi-planes at night (In reality minor damage was caused). Her real watery end would be met by a German Farten X during the 🇮🇹 navy surrender to the Allies

[narrow rover]

Tbh the kind of steel used to make short knives vs long swords are totally different

[timber linden]

Remember when the internet was fun.

[timber linden]

RN pizza pasta would be sent to Russians where the germans would still somehow sink her.

[eternal veldt]

mhm. Sure. Stereotypical portrayals of navies are absolutely appropriate and factually correct for a channel dedicated to discussion of naval warships and their histories.

[terse mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PedOONzKzsI

[remote monolith]

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/nov/02/robin-hood-review-sean-bean-gifts-us-the-most-gloriously-bad-tv-offering-of-the-year

I think part of my brain died a little reading this

[spring briar]

[runic ermine]

Im sorry what

[narrow rover]

[autumn sorrel]

Isn't the Anglo-Saxon like super into Christianity?

[narrow rover]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genrikh_Lyushkov

This goddamn war manages to throw at me the most incomprehensible individuals

[remote monolith]

A different, insular kind of Christianity, but Christian all the same

Anyway Saxon Propaganda on the year of our Lord 2025 wasn't something I expected

[peak mango]

Saxons are different than Anglos which is different than Anglo-Saxon... Depending on the period and usage. Saxon - generally thought of as coastal raiders, germanic speaking. Kind of an umbrella term for a bunch of groups. Angles/Anglos - germanic peoples who settled in Britain post Roman. Better details at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angles_(tribe) ... and also didn't start becoming Christian until ~ 6th century or so. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I

[runic ermine]

Yes. Especially with the youth today

[narrow rover]

What 80+ Kamikazes does to a mf

[brittle glacier]

Laffey? That you?

[narrow rover]

Yes, Laffey... in the book hilariously misspelled as Laffeij

[brittle glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/me-when-i-see-my-class-gif-15768348532634343334

[runic ermine]

What was life like for Americans living under occupation in Michigan in 1812?

[narrow rover]

An American, a Japanese, and a German walk into a bar...

1939... basically the last few months of peace these people got.

[junior trench]

1939
Japanese
Peace

[mental tapir]

They are "peaceful" to the westerners at this time (if you ignore the fight against the flying Tigers or the war against French Indochina)

[narrow rover]

I mean there's also the Italians already balls deep in Ethiopia

I mean, when do you think WW2 started, because I don't think I can answer that question

The most extreme example I've seen was: WW2 never started at one point, it was a culmination of centuries of colonialism

Hence there was a guy that placed the start date in 1895, Japan's victory against the Qing

But at that point you might just go all the way back to Cain smashing Abel's head in.

[autumn sorrel]

Chinese Century of Humiliation was a culmination of millenniums of Confucianism

[narrow rover]

Unionically that was a take by some people lol

Because China and Korea got smacked hard in the early 20th century

But also
Japan is mostly confucian and they did.... fine?

[autumn sorrel]

Korean being colonize by Japanese are King Taejo fault

[narrow rover]

[autumn sorrel]

Japan hardly ever Confucian

[narrow rover]

Hard to say
Not to the extent of Korea or China, they didn't have imperial exams for one

[autumn sorrel]

Unironically, Joseon dynasty being such a Sinophile and develop Neo Confucianism are what fucked Korean over in the long run.

[narrow rover]

I don't think the Joseon dynasty had a choice
It's not exactly in a position to make a friends group to oppose China (like the only nearby country that can offer troops is Japan), and it's not sizable enough to contend with the Chinese on their own

Confucianism was only a part of it
To be fair, there were only two countries that REALLY wanted to make Korea a part of themselves by the late 19th century. One was the Qing (which was essentially dead at this point...) and the other was Japan, Russia sort of didn't care as long as they could keep the Japanese out of Korea

Korea hoped that Russia and Japan would exhaust themselves fighting over Korea, and eventually no one would take it

[remote monolith]

admittedly the doctrine of Neo-Confucianism did have something of an unwitting hand in weakening the Qing

not that it causes the Century of Humiliation, but its there

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, not as if Qianlong military campaigns didn't leave his successor in a worse financial situation

[narrow rover]

Fundamentally the Qing sort of overstretched itself

Happened with the Ming, happened again with the Qing...

[remote monolith]

true, but the minimal taxation and government doctrine of Neo-Confucianism did made them unable to tax a lot of their potential GDP

[narrow rover]

I mean how much of that is confucianism and how much of that is just China being a bit too large

I actually saw a really interesting paper on this, one sec

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15387216.2014.907530

[remote monolith]

all of them working in conjunction I'd say

the Qing had a pretty hamstring government in the first place, and there was no incentive to change that because Neo-Confucianist doctrines advocate minimal taxation and expenditure by the government

[autumn sorrel]

Qing China probably are way richer than what we were led to believe but the majority of those wealths are concentrate in private treasury of wealthy local officials and Royal Princes.

The fact that they can easily pay the reparation of the Opium Wars and easily funded large Private Armies during the Taiping Rebellion show that.

But the problem is that their government system are way too archaic plus Qing have an incentives of not stirring the pot too much less them see Hans Chinese be more discontent.

[mental tapir]

Yeah honestly props to China for being able to climb back to where they are now even if they still had to go through plenty of misadventures post-1949

[narrow rover]

Its size will guarantee some level of strength regardless of what the heck it does.

Like, Japan couldn't bring China down, and the CCP armies had a draw with the US just 5 years after WW2

On the other hand, its size also means that other countries will always be wary of it

So, a bit hard to make friends

[mental tapir]

Idk, India has comparable size in terms of population and land and it's nowhere near as powerful or influential

Indonesia also seems to have similar size and likewise wasted potential

Ofc there's something something neocolonialism

[remote monolith]

Neocolonialism and a history of being far, far more fractious and varied than China, with not many Indian empires managing to unite the entire subcontinent since the Mauryas, and Southeast Asia being mostly Mandalas with very fluid rulership that ebb and flows

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah but China literally divided by warlordism and regionalism for centuries.

[remote monolith]

people often point to Majapahit being able to unite the archipelago, but that 'unity' was very tenuous, with its direct governance restricted to Central Java and parts of East Java while everything else are tributaries at best that Majapahit couldn't draw Manpower from

[remote monolith]

and yet there's many periods of unification as well, far more than India and Southeast Asia

[autumn sorrel]

Even Hans Chinese are not that easy to rule even under a Han Emperor

[remote monolith]

the Mughals only united the northern half of the continent

same with the Delhi Sultanata

[autumn sorrel]

True but you don't have genocidal war just because the Yellow river slightly change its course

[remote monolith]

believe me there's plenty of that kind in India

but records of them are very sparse because the tropics annihilates written sources easily

[autumn sorrel]

Nah, what happened in China regularly make India greatest tragedy look pale by comparison

[remote monolith]

Mahmud of Ghazni famously annihilated massive chunks of Hindus for example

[remote monolith]

lets not get to comparing tragedies

everywhere in the world has their share of bad massacres and borderline genocidal campaigns

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah but not every place in the world have half the page of "Human Cannibalism" dedicated to them

[remote monolith]

so? Cannibalism happens in all parts of the world all the same in desperation

[autumn sorrel]

I still find it morbidly funny how a rebel Chinese general approach to secure provision. His solution? Just eat the civilians.

[remote monolith]

if you wanna go there then the Native Americans also seemingly has so many experiences with cannibalism there's multiple various legends of man-eating haggardly humanoids

[autumn sorrel]

And not like for desperation, he can live off the land but he choose eating people and bragging about that instead

[remote monolith]

there are evidence of Australopithecus bones that has been eaten by its own kind

and this is over 1 million years ago

[autumn sorrel]

Even cook them in absurdly large cauldron as if some sick joke about hot pot for his army.

Go back to Neo-colonialism thing, it is used too much as an excuse.

[remote monolith]

and of course, there's medicinal Cannibalism in Europe where human meat are extensively used as medicinal aids

so cannibalism is pretty common everywhere, even in our own ancestors from Africa

but anyway, overall India was hardly ever united, and even the Maurya example I said above seemingly had limits with the deep south at Sri Lanka seemingly being its maximum limit under Ahsoka

after the Mauryas, there was nobody able to truly unite India until Aurangzeb came the closest

[desert agate]

If you're going to discuss this in terms of historical geopolitics, India as a state is only a very recent invention, India has almost never been unified throughout its history and arguably still isn't

In spite of that many of the Kingdoms, Princeley states and other states in India became highly influential in their own right, particularly the Tamil kingdoms

[remote monolith]

also after the coming of Islam there was a fairly clear sharp divide between North and South India

making unification even more complicated

[desert agate]

As far as modernity is concerned, India intentionally isolated itself geopolitically during the Cold War, it distanced itself from the West, buying Soviet weapons and trading with the Soviet bloc, while also maintaining a pretty respectable streak of democracy keeping the Soviets at an arms length as well

Much of this foreign policy agenda still exists in India, or at least support for it, Indian involvement in international allianced like the Quad are solely pointed at Indias issues with China and there isn't much political or economic will to expand those relationships

[remote monolith]

like, the north was entirely Sultanates, strong ones, but its very much deeply Muslim, like the Delhi Sultanate that beaten the Mongols, while the southern empires like the Vijayanagara are exclusively Hindus

although iirc there was a point under Tughlaq where most of the subcontinent was nearly united, but it didn't last long and it rapidly reverted again into northern India, again setting back the Indian unification

[desert agate]

Also to be noted it that India has failed to give its working/lower/peasant classes the economic opportunities that the Chinese did in the 80s, and has basically no incentive to do so

Living standards increase in India in spite of government policy, not because of it

A lot of that traces back to Indias religious caste system that inherently creates a less egalitarian society, unlike the Chinese who systematically dismantled their caste system, and while far from perfect have created a society where social mobility is not only possible but generally achievable to most people in the country, at least those fortunate enough to be born in the highest tier cities

[remote monolith]

outside of that, Hindu communities were also separate from each other since yknow, there's multiple different sects, multiple different ethnicities, and whatnot with their own smallish kingdoms and empires that can contend with one another

[desert agate]

Indonesia suffers from much the same foreign policy issues as India, unwilling to lean hard towards either bloc (although was far more aligned with the Soviets during the Cold War), and while the Indonesian government is inarguably better at bringing its citizens wealth compared to the Indian government, it is still far from perfect and many of its institutions are descended from the exploitative Dutch and Japanese systems from the colonial era

[remote monolith]

also, despite Buddhism being all but extinct in India these days, there used to be actual Buddhist dynasties all over India for some time, which also complicate things (Ashoka famously being a Buddhist for example), and this also spread to Southeast Asia as seen in the rivalry between the Hindu Sanjaya and the Buddhist Shailendra dynasties

[remote monolith]

and like India, it's still a fairly fractious state with a lot of sectarian and ethnic issues flaring up every now and then

just need to see the DI/TII Rebellions or PRRI/Permesta

one was a hardline Islamist rebellion, the other a collection of regional insurgencies chafing under being brought under a central government

as recently as 2004 there's the the GAM movement as one of the last visible regional separatism issue

[desert agate]

Internal integration also hurts both countries
Trying to move between different parts of both countries is incredibly difficult, rail connections are unreliable, roads are often poorly maintained and this does not create the ideal environment for economic productivity

Compare this to China which has been improving its rail network nonstop since the 70s, and Japan which is the worlds most internally integrated nation

[remote monolith]

ooon the other hand, with nearly all of the regions being uniformly Muslim majority with relatively moderate stance, its not collapsing anytime soon due to the presence of organizations like Nadhatul Ulama and Muhammadiyah

[remote monolith]

in fairness China already had their basis in the old premodern highway systems, and highly sophisticated walkways like the Shudao

its was a bit of a miracle that people like Zhuge Liang succeeded in maintaining that road system throughout the ages, enabling Sichuan to stay connected with other regions in China

you're not finding much of road systems like that in the deeply tropical and dense jungles of Southeast Asia and mid-south India

and that's what I meant, the successive dynasties of China were able to maintain these connective road systems and state apparatus that eventually laid down the basis of a unified modern state

[narrow rover]

Funnily enough the last (and possibly only) big crisis for Chinese sovereignty was 1931

When Japan yoinked Manchuria.
Thankfully Japan's politics didn't allow them to de-escalate and consolidate

But there was about nothing the Chinese could do to take Manchuria back for a long while...

And later the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. Had the war continued and the US troops advancing to push the Japanese out had met the Russians, you would have with near certainty have seen a Korea situation.

But China got lucky there.

[desert agate]

What does this mean

[narrow rover]

This but a lot more Americans in the green zone

And a lot more Russians in red

[brittle glacier]

Oooooooo tasty. https://x.com/timfarmer/status/1985757453825331201?s=46&t=TEoI1NedDr2SzpcZHBLRdw

Tim Farmer (@timfarmer)

An interesting look from April 1944 when the RAF decided to turn a Bristol Beaufort into a flying flamethrower. This experiment loaded an "Aeroflame" container, 1500 lb fuel cylinder with pipe nozzles attached, into the bomb bay. It was never deployed in combat operations.👀

X · Nov 4, 2025, 5:14 PM

[timber linden]

Allies: that plane is pretty cool
Ground crew: that a German plane
Allies: then it is a war crime

[spring briar]

who was talking about the Germans

[brittle glacier]

Sir, The USS Enterprise invented Napalm Strikes.

[mental tapir]

Also look up Operation Meetinghouse

[mental tapir]

It's cool but it's better if the fire starts after it hits the ground and not before

[brittle glacier]

They could probably thicken the fuel…

[timber linden]

Korea....wait enterprise didnt make it that long...would have to be nam for the reincarnation

Did the navy use napalm during nam?

Chatgpt said yes...so it fits

[brittle glacier]

Nope, World War 2 Pacific Theatre.

[peak mango]

Heh yeah. It's funny how all Chinese empires basically stop once they hit the subtropics.

Also, a lot of the PRC internal suppression mechanism is really because it has several different constituencies, going back for a couple of millenia. Cosmopolitain coastal traders are always gonna have different wants and needs than a rice farmer or a herder.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb5K4gNCzNo

[brittle glacier]

Hence why there were so many warlords.

[peak mango]

Much the same as Europe, really. Only there they call them kings.

[brittle glacier]

Probably why the CCP tries so hard to homogenise everything.

[peak mango]

If you're Han.

[brittle glacier]

I’m actually not too clear on that front.

[peak mango]

There's a reason I only write in Trad and it isn't because I can't do simplified.

[brittle glacier]

And I thought 1066 was bad.

[chilly flower]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-jesse-pinkman-walter-white-walt-wtf-gif-26915436

The three cited first-use cases of napalm from aircraft were all performed by USAAF aircraft in 1944 (February 15th B-24 raid on Pohnpei island, the major March 6 Berlin Raid, and finally anti-personnel use by 318th FG P-47s in July during the invasion of Tinian)

It had originally been intended specifically for use against industrial targets by heavy bombers, but after middling to disappointing results in the ETO, the 8th AF sent most of them back to the depot/handed them over to the tactical-airpower oriented 9th AF in theatre- in the PTO it was much more widely used, though much of that use was in the B-29 raids against Mainland Japan

[timber linden]

Did she, you learn something everyday

I got botted by someone who cried foul on my criticisms of the PRC. I would be careful

[brittle glacier]

Might’ve just been naval aviation use.

[timber linden]

So nam is back on the menu

It's the 60th anniversary of the toliet bomb

Oh wait that was midway....

Still great example of old Americana

[brittle glacier]

Enterprise Crews would rig up drop tanks with fuses and fill em full of either napalm or AvGas.

Forget which one.

[peak mango]

I'd imagine depends on what's available. Napalm is mostly just thickened gasoline.

[chilly flower]

They were using them in Sept 1944 strikes yes, but so was San Jacinto and Franklin also within TG 38.4, so not exactly the very first as far as I'm aware (possibly also Belleau Wood too but I have yet to check)
two excerpts from the former's war diary during the time

[junior basalt]

Any good free to watch ww2 movies/shows about the ships and battles?

I just rewatched midway and im hooked.. again.. this fixation comes around a few times a year lol

[round kernel]

What about Greyhound

[junior basalt]

I dont think ive seen it ill check it out

[spiral cedar]

https://youtu.be/LFn6p9s7KJU
Not a movie exactly…but if you don’t mind the lack of voice acting, it’s a good watch

[brittle glacier]

I am once again asking Azur Lane to publish an anime series retelling the entirety of the Second World War using shipgirls.

[mental tapir]

Nah they won't

Azur Lane's at the point where they use ship names and classifications only so that they don't have to come up with their own

History is something they barely reference and often get wrong lmao

Anyways does anyone know how much WW2 Germany got to try out and evaluate IJN/IJA aircraft?

[peak mango]

best you can get is the korean war with rabbits...

[brittle glacier]

🙁

[peak mango]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Hare_Affair

[brittle glacier]

Isn’t that the one where the Americans were penguins?

[peak mango]

Eagles. Obv.

[narrow rover]

I mean... when China did its first national census in the 1950s, more than 400 "ethnicities" were reported...

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAETtC_ToEE

[jade wraith]

Wsp

[jade wraith]

Hello

Aww man

No one is here

[restive venture]

I’m here

[jade wraith]

Oh

Hi

[restive venture]

Hello

[jade wraith]

What's ur fav ship?

[restive venture]

All of them

[main trench]

I've got a firefly book from belfast museum the other day

[jade wraith]

Ooh

[main trench]

Pretty cool flipbook

[jade wraith]

That's cool

Unfortunately over here we don't have much to see

[main trench]

Asia ?

[jade wraith]

Why?

[jade wraith]

Yep

[restive venture]

I see Tower Bridge, is London

[main trench]

Well just guessing

[main trench]

Yes near the river channel

[jade wraith]

Oh no I'm asking about the 2in1 deal

[restive venture]

I like it

[main trench]

Belfast the ship + her cosplayers

[jade wraith]

Ohh

[restive venture]

But my best favorite ship in Iron Blood

[jade wraith]

What's that?

[main trench]

Bismarck?

[jade wraith]

Ah

Bismarck

[main trench]

Faction in azur, refers to germany

[jade wraith]

I'm guessing Sakura is Japan?

[restive venture]

Bismarck, Tirpitz, Fritz Rumey and Roon

[restive venture]

Yes

[jade wraith]

I see

[main trench]

Correct

[jade wraith]

So what about the RN?

[main trench]

Roon turret is awkward tho

[restive venture]

Her hand

[jade wraith]

(Royal navy

[restive venture]

Hmm

[stark agate]

Hmm

[jade wraith]

Oh hi

[stark agate]

Hello indeed

[restive venture]

Hello Wood

[main trench]

Explain?

[jade wraith]

Could you guys name all the ships that fought in the battle of jutland?

[stark agate]

Perhaps

Probably only British ships though

And none of the smaller ships

[jade wraith]

Excluding them

[restive venture]

Didn’t know

[jade wraith]

Not much people know of Malaya

[main trench]

Ah I see, well I just know because I played world of warships

[stark agate]

Battleships/Dreadnoughts King George V, Ajax, Iron Duke, Canada, Agincourt are the ones I know who were present

[restive venture]

[main trench]

Gotta at least start somewhere

[jade wraith]

Yes

I think the entire Elizabeth class was there

[stark agate]

Some Battlecruisers were Tiger, Indefatigable and Indomitable

Not sure about the rest

[jade wraith]

Orion?

Let me see

Pretty sure iron duke was in there

Yep

9 dreadnoughts I think

[stark agate]

Oh and Warspite

How could I forget her

[jade wraith]

Yeah you did mention her

U did say Elizabeth class

Anyways goodnight

[stark agate]

It was not me who said a class, I was just naming off ships

Night

[brittle glacier]

5” go BRRRRRRRRRR https://vxtwitter.com/timfarmer/status/1986159012371460246?s=46&t=TEoI1NedDr2SzpcZHBLRdw

Tim Farmer (@timfarmer)

Interesting closeup footage from April 1, 1945 during the Battle of Okinawa of an LSM(R)'s rocket barrage. This looks like one of the four ships configured to use 85 Mk51 launchers with the capability to fire over 1,000 per minute. I believe the NARA mis-labeled this as LCI-535.🫡

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Nov 5, 2025, 7:49 PM

Also, for the record, I didn’t know much about how these launchers worked looking at the archives photos of Barb, but now that I see it? HO-LY FUUUUUUCK, that’s a TERRIFYING amount of firepower for a WW2 sub.

No wonder Lucky wanted them on board, that’s like, 10x 5” rockets per launcher…80 5” rockets per full salvo…

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIBtpED-vUw

[desert agate]

250 ships? No

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jutland_order_of_battle

Just google it mate

Not exactly the hardest thing to do

[sudden marlin]

I think this goes here (?)

Sometimes the designs in this game are so deceiving like i (not a naval nerd, learning) read about Norfolk, girl was out there helping put down Bismarck and I just read on Lexington wtf do you mean she ?? Was ?? Out there fighting Musashi??? That's so cool
I fear im about to go down a rabbit hole

And this might br a cliche question but does anyone have any more ships i could read that have like involvement with "bigger" ships or did something really badass that isnt like "main" ship or like one thats underrated in game but has smth like this irl (this is so general I apologize if this sounds stupid lol)

[jade wraith]

It's just a challenge. But I probably phrased it wrong

[mental tapir]

The Lexington fighting Musashi was the Essex-class Lexington, not the Lexington-class Lexington currently in-game, who sank at the Battle of Coral Sea IRL

We're likely probably maybe getting Essex-class Lexington as Lexington II this December (no guarantees though)

[peak mango]

Lots of interesting ships, with their own histories. Read about Laffey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-459). and Laffey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-724).

[zealous vine]

DD Stord, DD Glowworm, DE Johnston, BB Washington, DD Yukikaze, CL San Diego, BB Massachusetts, DD Jervis, CA Scheer

While not ingame, Italian MS boats are quite the read

[peak mango]

But.. I mean what's 'bigger'? or 'main'?

[zealous vine]

Anything that isn't too big to not be famous, regardless of service history (Musashi, Wisconsin, Vanguard) or mainstream (easily famous - Hood, Hipper)

[peak mango]

Lots of exciting stories from cruisers and dds and whatnot. Taffey-3 is pretty canonical in hero stories.

[sudden marlin]

Ahhh oops sorry sorry but still extremely cool though i hope we do get her !

[sudden marlin]

(Also a reply to the one abovw)

Thank you for these i will be neck deep into this for the next few hours lol omgg

And italian ms boats ill search that too

Thank all!

[zealous vine]

Ah one more, DD Carabiniere

[sudden marlin]

Im in Gloworms article rn and

Arethusa mentioned(!!) is this our arethusa? And also Hipper got me like 📈📉📈📉📈📉📈📉📈

[sudden marlin]

I think more ship girls need glasses or something

Also thank u i will add this to the list i think ive seen this name somewhere

[zealous vine]

Ah, she's ingame

[sudden marlin]

(Sorry gonna put this here hope u dont mind)

DD Stord✅
DD Glowworm✅
DE Johnston✅
BB Washington
DD Yukikaze
CL San Diego
BB Massachusetts
DD Jervis
CA Scheer
Italian MS boats
Laffey
Laffey²
DD Cabiniere
HMAS Perth
HMAS Sydney
USS Houston

Ill just keep editing my message so i domt clog the chat

If I was Johnston idk i might air the place out cause wtf u mean YAMATO ?😭 Johnston didn't even deserve all that fr wtf

No literally she was minding her business and this mfer🧑‍🦯🧑‍🦯

SHES MOVING AGAIN? Johnston isnt staying down 🤩🫰

Listen idk much ab Yamato other than shes rlly hyped and i know shes huge but i think she needs like her ass beat cause what in the world is going on rn

Nahhh Johnston went down swinging shes badass idgaf girl got attacked mistakenly and was like hell nah Damn bro 😓 this one actually got me so far bro she was so cool she was even found in her last fighting position how badass is that

---

Alright Washington dont break my heart pls if this is our Washington she was rlly cool in slow ahead so im excited

SOUTH DAKOTA MENTIONED

Wtf where did Ayanami come from

Ok training arc👁️👁️

TIRPITZ??

Bro she ran over someship wha

WHY IS HIPPER HERE AGAIN

Jesus Washington is big that photo is so pretty tho

Omg Hornet and Washington

Ha ha washington aint getting hit by no submarine (dont jinx it)

ENTERPRISE ? Omg Enterprise, South Dakota and Washington sounds like such a cool trio wait

????

Washington feels like. A spy with her evasiveness

Done with Washington

[sudden marlin]

So it issss omg i love her design im happy to see her in the wild

[desert agate]

HMAS Perth
HMAS Sydney
USS Houston

[sudden marlin]

Thank u

Thank u a lot this has me by the throat i didnt expect to be this invested

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tef-NjYGEKo Fujian was commissioned into the PLAN

[jade wraith]

🔥

[junior trench]

on a totally unrelated note, fish name subs are still coming back

[eternal veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/wahoo-fish-wahoo-fish-gif-18429124278693178740

[desert agate]

I love AUKUS

[junior trench]

https://tenor.com/view/wahoo-limbus-company-don-quixote-team-wahoo-gif-3746807626216475243

[west terrace]

https://youtu.be/KVQBLIppcYs

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-I4HxGw6QE

[zealous vine]

Keep your spirits high 👍

[sudden marlin]

Johnston really captivated me so i started drawing her (i probably cant do her justice but i need to do something about this brain worm let me live) so i will keep the list for when im done with this crazy obsession with Johnston

I am so invested bro i didnt know they was rlly getting down like this in the water holyyy😭

[peak mango]

We have fish names at home ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Protector-class_patrol_boat

[narrow rover]

We name subs after independence activists

From the Japanese Empire era

It makes a bit of a funny moment when the candidates are later found to be communists/worked for North Korea

[brittle glacier]

Y’all could do the funniest thing ever and name one after HIM…

[narrow rover]

I mean

...did he really harm Japan?

[brittle glacier]

The JMSDF Yamaguchi…got a ring to it.

[narrow rover]

I'm not from Japan tho

[brittle glacier]

Ah

Derp

[narrow rover]

Hence my mention of North Korea and independence activists... I'm from SK

[brittle glacier]

Not fully up to date with everyone’s lore.

[brittle glacier]

Ah.

[narrow rover]

I've seen this photo used for self defense classes

[brittle glacier]

Still funny.

[brittle glacier]

Asanuma clearly never took one.

[narrow rover]

"You see, had Asanuma pushed Yamaguchi hard, the sword would have missed!"

[brittle glacier]

“How does one counter such actions? With a gun of course!”

[narrow rover]

Yamaguchi actually delivered two perfect stabs to the abdomen, I'm convinced he'd been practicing for this for a while

[brittle glacier]

Technically a dagger…I think.

[brittle glacier]

I would not be surprised.

Modern Japanese Assassinations are wild.

The two biggest ones are:
Man gets stabbed to death by a seventeen year old with a samurai sword.
Man gets shot to death by a 41 year old man with an electronically ignited blunder buss.

[narrow rover]

On a more serious note I probably won't glorify Yamaguchi... Asanuma was not a good guy, but this kind of assassinations is what led to Japan's chaos in the 1930s and eventually ending up on the wrong side of WW2

I was similarily concerned with Shinzo Abe's death

[brittle glacier]

That’s fair.

[narrow rover]

Though Shinzo's death seems to have been more of a freak event rather than some society wide issue

[narrow rover]

On the other hand, postwar Japanese politics ever since Mr. Nobusuke Kishii is quite fun

[spiral cedar]

If you're able to access books (I realize they can be harder to read than articles due to cost and accessibility issues), this is a good reading list. Most of it isn't focused on individual ship histories, but they can also help put your favorite ships into their historical context as parts of larger battles. Always nice to see one you recognize in a larger narrative
#history message

[cyan oriole]

I wonder if there are good books available online for that

for example Friedman's US cruisers is available in like 20 places, but of course that would be an awful read for enjoyment purposes

[sudden marlin]

When i get access to a library its over for everyone (thank you)

I've finished my johnston design so ive been proceeding on reading on the others and it is just so cool when i see one of the ones i like in an article

Thank u for this list i might cant use it at this moment but it is definitely a goldmine

[brittle glacier]

I feel this probably wouldn’t work all that well? https://vxtwitter.com/hw97karbine/status/1986565004208824327?s=46&t=TEoI1NedDr2SzpcZHBLRdw

hw97karbine (@hw97karbine)

US personnel examine a Japanese 15cm anti-submarine mortar mounted on a freighter in Naha

The scene was captured on June 23rd 1945, a day after the Battle of Okinawa ended

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Nov 6, 2025, 10:43 PM

[earnest plinth]

found this in my room

[narrow rover]

Japanese anti submarine operations weren't all that good to begin with

It's basically a last ditch weapon

You kind of get why Japanese navy officers later said fighting the Americans felt like fighting aliens
The technological gap between those two was kind of similar to modern day USA and Iran...

[eternal veldt]

Less that, and more that too little was made too late due to a rather strained economy in a catch-22 cycle.

Japan's economy requires a good navy to defend its logistics, either in the form of capital ships or escort fleets.

To build either of those, you need a good economy to do so - Not exactly possible with shortage on both the capital and escort fleet, and the navy being rather hellbent on forcing a decisive battle that comes with a conclusion in an overwhelming Japanese victory.

As it stood, Japan actually had sonars and radars in small numbers on board their escort ships as reported in USNTMJ - just nowhere near not enough against the onslaught of US submarines and aviation capacity.

I've mentioned here before that 1944 is the year with the heaviest loss in terms of the Japanese merchant marine tonnage, with some 2,000,000 GRT shipping lost due to submarine or aircraft attacks - to put that into context, Japan started the war with 6,000,000, with some tonnage siphoned from other sources as the war wore on, and the nefarious Mark 14's issues were getting remedied.

[desert agate]

Yes by empowering the violent wing of the Japanese political left and creating a casus beli for further violence that killed innocent people

[narrow rover]

Japanese politics at the time was kinda stupid ngl

As much as I want to blame everything on Kishii, it's true that the communists were staging violent uprisings from the get go, so... yea. Shitty situation

[sudden marlin]

The name of the ship is slipping my mind 🥲but

The ship was on fire or had multiple fires and was kinda just barely making it and then the flag got blown off so the captain put up a new one in the middle of the fight

[narrow rover]

Quite a few examples

Which time period?

[runic ermine]

What about CANZUK?

Or
Canada
Australia
New
Zealand
United
Kingdom

[sudden marlin]

I... dont know 😭 ive been on a mission of sorts just neck deep into all of the stuff even getting side tracked to other ships

I know she was an american ship probably ww2

Super targeted but she was surviving well and then her flag got destroyed and crew put up a new one

I just distinctly remember this flag thing for whatever reason over anything else i know she also had like a bomb thrown onto her from a japanese flying thing

[runic ermine]

https://x.com/RWApodcast/status/1987066697426116627?t=Jmj7RjskUsVG2tLw4VUmKg&s=19

Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast)

The Imperial Russian uniforms for Central Asia were so great. Incredible drip

X · Nov 8, 2025, 7:56 AM

I love the cap with the neck protector

[little palm]

I thought that sash was a tire for a second

[spiral cedar]

Not the same thing, but it made me remember this:

At 0042.05 South Dakota reports turret three firing sixteenth salvo, range 15,500 yards, on target astern (Ayanami) and that she had set fire to own planes. No spot. At 0043 South Dakota reports that her seventeenth salvo blew two planes overboard and extinguished most of the fires started by the previous salvo, Range 15,500, Spot NC.

SoDak firing her main guns ignited her own planes, but her next salvo blew the burning planes overboard while putting most of the fires out

[spring briar]

[sudden marlin]

Thats so cool holyyyy😭 self sufficient at its finest (joking)

She was one of the first designs I liked in AL (if this is her) every new thing i find out makes her so much cooler to me

[narrow rover]

Yamato (Musashi?) also knocked out her own AA crew with the main guns once iirc

The type 3 AA shells? Yea the problem with that thing was that... in any situation you'd use those with your main guns, your AA crew would also be firing...

[spring briar]

Richie singed the hairs of the arms of her 20mm Oerlikon AA gunners

[narrow rover]

Funnily enough the more repeated noises coming from DD guns (described as loud clacking) was apparently more damaging to hearing than the loud booming noises coming from BB fire

It might be that crews were more careful though, since BB gun shockwave can genuinely hurt you badly

[sudden marlin]

I was gonna make a joke along the lines of well Yamato and Musashi are big girls they can't see everything theres bound to be some mistakes but that's probably overdone but still that is very surprising but also if they lived from that (yamato musashi or richie (who???) people on the end of that) then thats even cooler to me i think

Idk it's just like imagine surviving anything from such a personal . Position like that and still serving

Although you said she knocked them out so i do worry they concussed or something lol

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIyD4iwaaQc

[runic ermine]

Cool

@spring briar just out of curiosity, do French history classes teach about French involvement in the American Revolutionary War

[narrow rover]

Germanys first post WW2 aircraft

...it took a while for them to regain trust and be allowed to build more comprehensive stuff

[brittle glacier]

Oof

[narrow rover]

Gliding was heavily promoted in the interwar years to train pilots. Still continues today, and Germany produces the majority of the world's sailplanes

Meanwhile... Japan's first postwar airplane

Though they built the YS-11 in the early 60s, so I'd say they got back on track faster than Germany did.

[desert agate]

Who cares about that irrelevant British fantastical empireslop?

No body outside of the UK and some weird Canadian monarchists cares about CANZUK

The UK, no matter how much it tries to delude itself into believing otherwise, is permanently entwined with the geopolitics of Europe and the North Atlantic, and no amount of nostalgia for a long gone empire with global influence is going to change that fact

Australian and Kiwi policymakers are far more capable of recognising that than the British are

Australians care about AUKUS because it directly impacts Australian national security and geopolitical interests, what does CANZUK give us other than some weird nostalgia for a time and global order that is long behind us?

[runic ermine]

You sound like an American attempting explaining how the Commonwealth works

Isnt CANZUK more like an EU type thing

[desert agate]

No it isn’t a thing that’s the point

It exists solely in the minds of nostalgic nostalgic Brit’s who think the rest of the former dominions think the way they do

CANZUK =/= Commonwealth

The commonwealth actually exists and isn’t just former white colonies

[runic ermine]

Oh so it should be SACANZUK

[runic ermine]

Also what I ment is when Trump said he wanted to join the Commonwealth a bunch of Americans thought that ment becoming a colony again

Like seriously is education illegal in America or something?

[peak mango]

No? That said, commonwealth status was sort of associated with being a former crown colony with the commonwealth realms still retaining the (monarch of england) as titular head of state.

[runic ermine]

Ireland is a Commonwealth nation

[peak mango]

Yes there are republics in the commonwealth as well. But like I was saying, the specifics of what is/isn't commonwealth aren't really needed for a good working knowledge of history, and tbh, from what I understand, in most history texts in the US, the inner workings of GB/UK/commonwealth get omitted somewhere after the war of 1812. At least at the primary/secondary levels.

[desert agate]

South Africa famously white

[runic ermine]

Thats the point its an African country

[desert agate]

There are countries which are part of the commonwealth and have no ties to British colonialism

[peak mango]

At most, it's tangentially mentioned as an interfering (US Civil war) or allied (WW1/2) foreign nation.

[runic ermine]

Yes

[desert agate]

The commonwealth isn’t an alliance nor is it an equivalent to the EU it’s basically just a fancy foreign aid fund

Don’t confuse CANZUK and the commonwealth

[peak mango]

canzuk v five eyes ... 😄 also aukus

[runic ermine]

I know

[runic ermine]

Im saying that CANZUK would kinda be like the EU but smaller

[narrow rover]

"National resistance" manuals

...essentially teaching civilians to do guerilla warfare

Some of the tactics are, should I say fantastical

Such as using a wet blanket to fight flame throwers

[eternal veldt]

Originally, I couldn't find anything since getting turned into swiss cheese is....quite a common thing to occur if you're in the spotlight.

Your last part regarding an airstrike, however, was a good clue, and I can think of no better fit than Laffey DD-724 herself.

Ship historian Sonny Walker said that a Japanese plane flew into the mast and knocked down the American flag. Kelly went out and retrieved the flag from the main deck and headed back to the signal room with it.

On the way back, he found a sailor with his leg missing. It turned out to be Kelly’s good friend, Fred Burgess. He was leaning against a gun mount on his good leg with blood pouring out his missing leg. He cried for Kelly to help him, so Kelly and some other men rushed Burgess to the sick bay.

Once there, Burgess asked Kelly for the flag and Kelly gave it to him. He died, still clutching the flag, before a doctor had a chance to see him.

The Laffey was attacked by 22 Japanese planes that day. She was struck by six planes and four 400-pound bombs. Kelly narrowly missed being crushed by a falling 2-ton antenna. Another blast tossed him fifteen feet in the air.

A shipmate hung a new flag on the deck – “so the Japanese knew who they were fighting,” Kelly remembered, 32 men were killed on the Laffey that day and 71 were wounded. Kelly is amazed that anyone was able to walk away from that attack.

[desert agate]

Why?
To what end?
The EU made sense because it was an expansion of the existing economic ties between the Western European economies, hence its original name as the European Coal and Steel community

What economic ties exist between the CANZUK nations?
Australia and New Zealand are close to be sure
As are Canada and the UK
But what economic ties exist between Australia and the UK, New Zealand and Canada?
They have pathetically small trade relationships, we’re not talking about a common sense partnership between economies which are already closely entwined anymore

Australia and New Zealand are economically and geographically aligned in Asia, the movements of the Asian powers and their greater destinies are the primary interests of Australians and Kiwis

What interest does the UK and Canada have? They are in the European and North Atlantic economic spheres, the movements of Indonesia or Japan do not matter to those nations

CANZUK may have made sense in a world where the primary trading partners of the constituent nations were within the British economic bloc, where the nations involved enforced tariffs to avoid goods from outside of that bloc being competitive

That world no longer exists
Australia’s biggest trading partner is China, same with New Zealand
The UKs biggest trading partner is the EU
Economic ties between Britain and the Antipodes are pathetically small, and smaller yet are the Antipodean ties with Canada

[autumn sorrel]

Who is having the delusion of old Imperial Grandeur this time? Canada or UK?

[desert agate]

Sure in the eyes of British policymakers, the idea of CANZUK makes sense, expanding trade relationships with the former colonies and creating a viable alternative to the EU in a post Brexit world

But what part of that is good for Australia and New Zealand? Britain doesn’t import anything that those nations export and vice versa
What do they get out of this fantastical idea of former colonial unity?

Australia and New Zealand are not British nations anymore and they will never be so again
They are permanently entwined with the economies of Asia

[autumn sorrel]

The illusion of British Security Guarantee?

[autumn sorrel]

Hypothetically, it sound like CANZUK is something doable in post ww2, around mid 50s to 60s. How would something like CANZUK be receive if it was propose back then?

[desert agate]

What security guaruntees can Britain give to Australia and New Zealand?

Britain does not have a global navy anymore

It cannot project its force of arms into the Pacific

Britain in inexorably tied to European security, it cannot, and it is not willing to expand its security interests anywhere East of the Suez Canal

[desert agate]

Impossible post-Korea

Even less possible during Vietnam

[autumn sorrel]

That's why I said "illusion", I was being sarcastic.

[autumn sorrel]

Why? Royal Navy was still a force back then and while UK force sent to Korea was small, it still show that they are able to do so, not to mention their presence in Malaysia as well.

[jade wraith]

Do y'all know about the rape of Nanking?

Or also known as Nanking massacre

[narrow rover]

Yes
Why?

[narrow rover]

Like the only commonality between those guys is language at this point

[runic ermine]

I have a book on it

[runic ermine]

Also:
-Same King
-Were once part of the same empire
-Part of the Anglosphere
-Similar cultures

Its more of like a club to go "Hey we got historical links"

[desert agate]

The political situation in Britain post-Korea was such that significant investment in conflicts so far away was to be avoided
The Royal Navy was reconfiguring itself from a power projection force to a force solely confined to NATO combat areas
While the Malayan Emergency saw significant involvement of British forces, the Royal Navy saw comparatively little involvement, and Borneo was much the same and these interventions were more thanks to colonial legacy in Hong Kong more than anything else

SEATO and ANZUS were basically the final blows to serious British involvement East of Suez

The RAN was configuring itself into an independent force around 2 carrier groups, the Kiwis were operating in a supporting role, the USN was stronger than ever

The RN wasn’t needed and didn’t have the resources to spare

[desert agate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

[runic ermine]

Yeah that too

[desert agate]

Australia and New Zealand have an open border

The UK does not want an open border with either

Nor does it want complete free trade

The last thing the UK wants to do is accelerate its already massive brain drain of taxpayer trained skilled workers into the Australian and New Zealand economies, while also having cheaper and higher quality ANZ agricultural goods entering their own borders

Open borders, free trade, the mere existence of the monarchy, international trade policy
None of these things and more are in agreement between the UK and ANZ

Many of these are fundamental issues that neither side will compromise on

CANZUK is never happening, it is a fanciful idea and it won’t actually benefit anyone

The UK gets its death spiral accelerated and ANZ have to completely overhaul their trade policy and standards

Nobody wins in this equation

[desert agate]

Yes one of the most famous historical events of the 20th century I think many people know about it

[narrow rover]

They could start by cobbling together a team British empire for the next Olympics

And finally challenge China and USA

[remote monolith]

Size range for Nanotyrannus compared to Tyrannosaurus

With this the ecosystem of Hell Creek is relatively complete and the puzzling niche hole plugged

lancesis and lethaeus go after the juveniles and small to middle sized prey a rex might miss, possibly in competition with juvenile rexes themselves

[desert agate]

You are aware that Australia is one of the most successful Olympic nations in medals per capita?

[narrow rover]

Per capita yes

Total number hell no

So combine the medal tally of AU, Canada, UK...

Maybe add South Africa in there if they're willing to join...

[remote monolith]

So in this category there would be animals like Pachycephalosaurs, Struthiomimus, Ornithomimus and perhaps some Troodontids

[desert agate]

Not even per capita Australia is still consistently one of the top Olympic nations

[remote monolith]

Dromaeosaurids might also be on the menu, but the problem is Dromaeosaurids from Hell Creek are fairly sparse

[narrow rover]

Swimming carries Australia
Apparently every Australian needs to run from the sharks or something

[remote monolith]

Dakotaraptor is a chimera of different animals

[narrow rover]

[desert agate]

4th place from a country of 25 million
Why would we want to share that with the losers in the UK, SA, CAN and NZ?

[remote monolith]

Also, this is the Dueling Dinosaur that proved Nanotyrannus is real

[narrow rover]

Having more medals than Germany or Japan is quite the achievement ngl

[desert agate]

Maybe the rest of them can cobble together a team that can compare with Australia

[remote monolith]

It's a juvenile Triceratops, a adult is way above the paygrade of a Nanotyrannus

[desert agate]

Yes being one of the worlds most successful sporting nations is impressive

[remote monolith]

Here is it getting prepared

God to pry this shit off private ownership was a struggle

About 18 years of hard work before a museum got it

It's also valuable because we got genuine dinosaur skin impressions from a Theropod

You don't see something like this everyday, especially for a Theropod

For Ornithiscians we have Borealopelta and Edmontosaurus at least

Further comparison of Nanotyrannus with the biggest rex specimens

Jane mind you, is an almost adult Nanotyrannus

There's still a pretty large gap between an adult Nanotyrannus and adult Tyrannosaurus, but I suppose it's to avoid too hard of a competition between the genus like during Tithonian Jurassic

Like, in that time period you have Torvosaurus, Allosaurus, Ceratosaurus and perhaps Saurophaganax and Epanterias occupying the same general niche of extra large prey hunterd

The smaller predator niches were handled by creatures like Ornitholestes instead

Meanwhile Hell Creek for now is seemingly pretty 'uniform' so to speak, so there's:

-Tyrannosaurus at the top, preying on adult Ceratopsians, Hadrosaurs, Ankylosaurs and possibly juvenile Alamosaurus in its southern ranges
-Nanotyrannus for juveniles of the first three, although Ankylosaurs might be beyond its cutting teeth to manage, and Ornithomimids plus Marginocephalians like Stygimoloch
-Indeterminate Dromaeosaurids and Troodontids for the smallest dinosaurs and mammals like Didelphodon

Overall, not too complicated, and somewhat reminiscent of the 'dual kings' set up Tyrannosauroids generally got during the Cretaceous (eg Daspletosaurus and Gorgosaurus, then possibly Tyrannosaurus mcraensis and Albertosaurus early on in the Maastrichtian)

I wonder if there's still room for specialized Sauropod eaters down south though, I'm not too familiar with Central American dinosaurs, and given they're tropical

There's a big chance most of everything there got turned to mush by the jungles

Or just fucking pummeled by the Asteroid, you never know

Like, this arrangement does means adult Alamosaurus has not a single predator whatsoever except if diseased or injured, because a Tyrannosaurus basically has no hope of tackling one

Essentially, a Tyrannosaurus, in order to compensate for its powerful bite, has a pretty small gape for its size, restricting the size of limbs or flesh it can bite off. In other words, it's super specialized for bone crushing, not meat chugging

It's no Allosaurid with its sauropod specialist wide gap and slicing teeth

But yeah, overall this has been hell of an exciting discovery for Maastrichtian Cretaceous research, game changing even

On an unrelated note, holy Mother of Jeebus there's so many things wrong with this description

[autumn sorrel]

On one hand, I love mega big shark, on the other, I really want to know those idiots going to explain how a predator the size of Meg can escape human notice for tens of thousand of sea voyage history.

[remote monolith]

Besides that, look at the year

200 millions years ago

For context, 200 million years ago means the fucking middle of the Triassic

Otodus Megalodon lived 20 million years ago give or take iin the Miocene

[autumn sorrel]

Deep sea giantism cannot apply to Meg, the sheer size mean that if deep sea Meg did exist then not only we already find it but we should at least have something in historical document at least.

[remote monolith]

Also, Megalodon is hardly the largest predatory matine creature ever

[autumn sorrel]

I think they google "How old did Shark exist on Earth" and just take the first answer

[remote monolith]

With that criteria, the crown belongs to the Blue Whale

Followed by Icthyosaurs

[autumn sorrel]

Imagine chumping on Shrimp can be classify as "predator"

[remote monolith]

Or the reverse depending on whether you believe the extreme figure for the Austh Cliff Fossil

No seriously, some of the maximum size for that thing breach 40 meters, idfk how

Like imagine a 40 meter long sea monster that actually HUNTS

Since Icthyosaurs are active hunters

[remote monolith]

Hey, if it eat other things for its main diet it's a pred

[autumn sorrel]

But yeah, probably will watch it mostly for entertainment.

[remote monolith]

Good luck, I can't do it, I'll get a fucking aneurysm

[autumn sorrel]

Just treat it like any other Big Foot docu

[jade wraith]

It's barely known around the world.

[jade wraith]

Ahh nice

[narrow rover]

Hmm, depends on where you're from. Here in Asia it's quite often taught in school as an example of Japanese cruelty during WW2, but if you're in like... say... Poland, you have uhh, the other Axis power that was a bigger concern

Here in Korea German stuff is not taught in depth, so you have a rather... disturbing about of wehraboos.

[jade wraith]

Yeah, but sometimes even in asia not much people know

[jade wraith]

What's wehraboos?

[narrow rover]

People that like Germany (1933~1945)

[jade wraith]

Oh

Kanye west

[pulsar bronze]

I hate how that's so goddamn accurate lmao

[jade wraith]

On what

[pulsar bronze]

"kanye west"

[narrow rover]

Nah, there's definitely a small but noticeable gap between wehraboos and straight up uhh
Nazis

[remote monolith]

Wehraboos used to be a full spectrum

Basically ranged from "Yeah the Nazis are bad but the Wehrmacht is cool and unbeatable, also they're innocent" To "Yes I too like the Generalplan Ost, why do you ask"

Nowadays though the milder varieties became extinct as more evidence came up explicitly condemning the Wehrmacht's complicity

So they either grow out of the apologia and just appreciate say, the hardwares while fully acknowledging these are terrible people, or transition fully into a National Socialist

[narrow rover]

I was definitely not exposed to military stuff before that happened

Like 10 or so years ago

[autumn sorrel]

Which part of Asia?

[narrow rover]

I guess if it's like, somewhere that Japan didn't really occupy?

Here it's taught occasionally but sort of sidelined in favor of teaching about independence activists

Korea sort of... sat out WW2. Was part of the Japanese empire, but wasn't really a war zone. Not bombed. So 1937~1945 is rather glossed over except the occasional mention of conscripted laborers

The real @^>/show was 1945 onwards, especially the early Korean republic era (under Rhee) and the Korean War

It's not well known, but the communist purges in Korea around the Korean War era was insanely brutal. Puts South American dictatorships to shame... possibly more than 1 million "supposed communists" were slaughtered. Most were completely innocent.

[remote monolith]

It's unironically not taught here, but that's because International History in general is deliberately gimped over National Propaganda

[narrow rover]

I mean how important was WW2 to your country's history

Some countries hardly experienced it

[jade wraith]

SEA

Over here is "Hirohito bad"

[narrow rover]

Thailand masterfully sat out WW2

Only region in SEA not to get hit with the shitstorm

[runic ermine]

They joined the axis...

[narrow rover]

The other option was getting smashed into oblivion by the Japanese

They joined the Axis yes but they hardly did anything, honestly even lesser than Germany's minor allies
Except supply a bunch of laborers for Japan

[runic ermine]

Germany's minor allies actually got involved in the Eastern Front

[narrow rover]

Yea
Somehow Romania gained territory postwar

[runic ermine]

Bulgaria did too

[mental tapir]

Also Thailand somehow managed to declare war on the US without the US then blowing them to kingdom come afaik
Okay, not true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Bangkok_in_World_War_II?wprov=sfla1

[woeful heath]

Not much in a Malaysian Standpoint

In the Education textbook
Barely 5-10 pages at max

It did not mentioned any war crimes, any destruction (barely)

Only mentioned that they separated races, exploited them and basically a map of how they invade Malaysia (basically arrows from landing area down to Singapore)

But neat to know that they do mention Repulse and PoW sinking

[mental tapir]

Quite a bit for the 🇸🇬 standpoint; in that it justified independence and conscription, since we could not rely on the British to protect us

[peak mango]

Don't get me started on the HK point of view. :/

[narrow rover]

Kinda surprising considering Malaysia was actually occupied for a while

We do know that the majority of executions early in the occupation (Sook Ching, courtesy of a certain colonel Tsuji...) was overwhelmingly directed at the Chinese diaspora

And the relationship between Chinese and Malays etc in modern day Malaysia is uhhhhhhhhhh

[autumn sorrel]

Admittedly, my own history class also gloss over ww2 and Nanking only receive a short sentence that group it along other Japanese Warcrimes.

[narrow rover]

I mean no one knows anything about the anti guerrilla operations at Hainan even though it was almost as brutal as Generalplan Ost
Because no one cares about Hainan

The Nanjing massacre remained in a special place in Chinese historiography because it was... their capital city. Imagine Russia invaded the US and executed a bunch of civilians at DC... it'd be nailed to the US history book for centuries, while someone in say, Nigeria would probably get only a passing mention

[ornate timber]

I don’t understand the idea that ancient generals were so much better than more recent generals. I keep seeing videos and posts like this one pop up all over the internet and it’s always been kind of funny to me

[narrow rover]

I honestly disagree with there being truly great generals

[ornate timber]

Completely agree. For all the credit Rommel, McArthur, or Montgomery get most of their success was because of the lower level officers or common soldiers. It’s always just been weird to me that there are people who genuinely think Napoleon could have been a good WW2 general.

[remote monolith]

It's thanks to multiple reasons, not least because accounts of ancien generals tend to be hagiographical in nature

[remote monolith]

I mean, it's all down to subjectivity on what you think constitutes a great general. At the very least many are simply competent enough with what they do, and generally are charismatic enough to keep cohesion during harsh conditions

Plus comparing pre-18th century war leaders to later ones tend to run into difficulties owing to the difference in how wars are run throughout the ages

Pre, you'd also have martial capabilities thrown into the mix

Afterwards, nobody demand Eisenhower to be able to duel von Manstein to be considered great

[remote monolith]

If you plop Napoleon directly into WWII without prior knowledge obviously he'd fumble. However, throw someone like him with genuinely good tactical sense of a battlefield into some time of adjustment period then and chances are he'd do fine

[mental tapir]

It's also people putting Great Man Theory above Historical Materialism

[remote monolith]

That too

As mentioned, historical accounts tend to be hagiographical, and plays up the role of the Nobility, tye have all, the learned who has access to education

[mental tapir]

"Bro trust me bro, if Yamamoto had isekaied back to 1905 after his death he'd have surely built the nuclear I-400s and destroyed the US, bro" /j

[remote monolith]

Very little comparatively are recorded of the lower class, the trader, the freemen, and those beholden to the policies

[remote monolith]

Konpeki no Kantai went beyond Great Man and went straight to Giant (Japanese) Man

[narrow rover]

Extreme case, you could be the best general ever lived performing the perfect defensive maneuver, against a teenager whose sole military experience is HoI, but if your soldiers are armed with rocks while the enemy are space marines... yea your military prowess literally doesn't matter

[narrow rover]

I honestly think he'd have been more of an anti-war figure had that happened

Yamamoto is to this day one of the most revered figures in Japan for reasons I just cant get my head around...

[remote monolith]

Yamamoto, admittedly was still a pretty good leader who managed to get the drop on the Allies in his capacity as a supreme commander and orchestrated the fall of the European colonies within months, fighting on the decidedly worse side aside

[desert agate]

There are no masterable skills of good generalship, a good general uses the technology of their times. Of course Napoleon wouldn't be a good general in 1942, he didn't know how the weapons worked, the logistics or the technology
His mastery of the common logistics of the time enabled his campaigns.

[remote monolith]

So no surprise he'd be at least still respected

[desert agate]

I would also note that yes, there are generals who were carried by their subordinates, but most generals enabled their own skills and victories by being able to surround themselves with capable staff officers

[remote monolith]

I mean hit, the question still hinges on whether they meant Napoleon is directly plopped in WWII, or if someone with his brand of competence grew up in the time period

[desert agate]

To command a force of thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even millions of men, you need subordinates, you need people who can go up and down the line, and a good general is someone who can identify those people and use them most effectively

[remote monolith]

I have no issue believing that a general with Napoleon's brand of aggressive maneuvers can become a notable commander

[desert agate]

Military command is defined by the skills of delegation
If you cannot delegate, you cannot win

[remote monolith]

Cause this is the same man who organized a superb crossing of the Alps, got the drop of the Austrians and annihilated them at Marengo

Theoretically, that kind of feat can be done quite practically in the mid 20th century

[desert agate]

Yamamoto was an interesting character
Both overconfident and realistic, depending on the situation
Often willing to create overly elaborate plans to create his ideal battle, but also capable of simplicity

You can find many faults in the man but also many of those faults are not of his personality and far more of the society he existed in, and particularly the military culture of the IJN

[remote monolith]

Conversely, I do think someone of Napoleon's temperament would actually be a very poor theatre level commander in WWII. He was personally brilliant, prone to daring maneuvers, and can just barely seize the day. But just look at his post-1812 campaign, where he couldn't be everywhere at once and as a result his marshals all faltered

[ornate timber]

Part of the problem with the ancient generals thing and the reason I don’t think Napoleon would have done good is the exponential increase in complexity. Here in Mexico the main generals people remember are the revolutionaries like Pancho Villa. Pancho Villa was known for having a great military mind for the time but his campaigns collapsed almost immediately after Obregon and others introduced Trench Warfare to the Revolution in 1918. The fact that you can have competent leaders struggle so much from a development 4 years into a war doesn’t fare well for the older generals like Napoleon. Not to suggest that Villa or the others where on the same level as Napoleon

[remote monolith]

Again, this hinges on if you immediately plop said figure in the setting, and not just mean someone with the figures temperament, inclination, or capabilities facing the situation

People gets older and less flexible as age goes on, that doesn't even need some revolutionary tech to happen

[desert agate]

A man who doesn't know what a machine gun is probably won't know how to utilise one effectively in combat, nor how to counter one

[remote monolith]

To give an example, Antigonus Monopthalmus was a brilliant man in his youth and was able to conduct successful campaigns, but then he fell at Ipsus at the age of 88

[narrow rover]

Tbh it's a part of the public perception about the Japanese empire at least in Japan... Like, I dont know why everyone doing alt history there tends to come up with a scenario where Japan beats the US. Why not simply... avoid the fight entirely? Like, there's nothing in Japanese culture even at the time that necessitated Japan losing WW2 and getting the nukes dropped on them twice. Heck a fight with the US was not exactly something even the Japanese wanted until... 1940...

[desert agate]

Japan could not avoid war with the Western Allies

[remote monolith]

With Japan's temperament at the time a clash with the west was inevitable due to the nature of the Meiji Restoration

[narrow rover]

Some sort of conflict was probably inevitable yes

[desert agate]

You can't make the argument that they shouldn't have started the fight because it couldn't have been avoided

[ornate timber]

By the time of the Marco Polo Bridge incident the US was already weary of Japan and japans old ally, the UK, had also turned on them

[remote monolith]

You have to pull the time frame significantly backward towards the end of the Heian Era likely to stop a warmongering Japan

And that assumes no other changes in other parts of the world

[desert agate]

The war in China had drained Japan dry, their entire economy was on the brink of collapse, but there was no possibility of withdrawing from China, the only way to continue the war was to obtain the resources needed to fight it

[narrow rover]

I do think history flows in a certain path but that's like saying Hitler was inevitable the moment Germanic tribes became a thing.

[desert agate]

The Anglo-Japanese alliance had been dead for 20 years by this point

To call Britain an 'old ally' is a little silly and implies that the British were not directly opposed to Japanese interests from 1914 onwards

[remote monolith]

Possibly, but it's precisely because of the breakdown in civiliab society near that time period, leading to a culture of martial warfare that lasts until the Edo period, that gave Japan the impetus to spread its borders outward

Remember that Hideyoshi did try to expand to China in the Imjin War

[desert agate]

How do you think that Japan could have avoided a war with the Allies without withdrawing from China?

[ornate timber]

I meant it in the way that Britain was Japan’s last true western ally before the war. By the point it ended there was little to no hope of keeping peace with the west

[narrow rover]

Iirc invasion of Indochina was what pushed the US over the edge? If that is impossible... they're sort of stuck there in China while the US stares at them in the meantime. So something has to go wrong with either the Triparte Pact or the German invasion of France

Not really something Japan can change, though

[desert agate]

Japan would have gone to war with the Allies regardless of events in Europe, it was not possible to avoid at this point

The democratic powers would have blocked Japanese oil imports one way or another

[narrow rover]

Not sure, fighting US, Europe, China at once without oil from Indochina? I mean, I know the Japanese are suicidal but...

[ornate timber]

If the Taishō democracy had stood maybe there would have been no war but even by that point war with the west was very likely

[remote monolith]

Again, the mentality is already that of an expansionist, imperialistic empire, you're not changing that without drastically changing the whole timeline. Problem is, Japan as a fairly homogenous and insular culture did have a history of attempting to expand its outside borders even before WWII

[desert agate]

That's a really weird way of simplifying Japanese domestic political developments during the interwar years

[remote monolith]

I honestly don't think Taisho would have done anything to oppose expansionism, I'll be real

[narrow rover]

I dunno. This just feels like the Sonderweg argument in Germany which honestly felt really stupid.

[desert agate]

I love my peaceful democratic Taisho era Japan that would never launch expansionist wars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Manchuria

[remote monolith]

Taisho was the son of Meiji, and Meiji himself was unopposed to blatant expansionism to Korea

[narrow rover]

Taisho democracy arguably did more harm than good if anything, if the amount of fear some traditionalists felt about democracy was actually there and not just a postwar hindsight

And Taisho was uhh actually insane

[remote monolith]

Sonderweg was pretty bunk yeah. Problem is, I feel with Japan, you at minimum have to considerably change the way the Meiji Restoration happened, which might also involve changing how the Tenno system works too

Actually no wait, a stronger emperor is probably worse all around

A Japan headed by a fully autocratic, divine-blooded man of absolute temporal and religious authority might actually turn super ugly

But then again the Caliphs were those and we know what happened to them

[ornate timber]

To be honest I don’t know much about the interwar years. But from what I had heard the Taishō era was when the Kwantang army and the military really took hold of the Japanese government. I guess I just assumed the Mukden incident happened after the period had ended

[narrow rover]

Tbh this is all hindsight really because say, if France became super aggressive we'd probably be pointing to their colonial African policies as a "sign" and that everything was inevitable

[remote monolith]

It did happen after his era, it was during Showa

Taisho died in 26

[desert agate]

Strictly speaking Taisho democracy lasted longer than Taisho himself

[narrow rover]

I do agree with the Meiji constitution being the very root cause of all the problems

[remote monolith]

Yeah but the regnal era already changed

[narrow rover]

Iran

[remote monolith]

And practically most monarchies really

Although admittedly not many monarchies were actually all that powerful

European ones definitely not, Kings and Emperors gotta fight with the Pope on the regular for the whole annointment business

[narrow rover]

All I can say with modern Japanese history in terms of alt history is that... there's probably no timeline where it doesn't turn into a shitfest

Like heck, they in the end got a better deal out of the 20th century compared to say, China

I can't for the life of me imagine there's a significantly better timeline

[remote monolith]

Nah I think if the timeline is Shintoist theocratic Japan it can be avoided

But well, that borders on impossible

[narrow rover]

Or it can all become Turkey

[ornate timber]

I always love alternative history because they can never find a timeline where Mexico is stable 🥲

[remote monolith]

Buddhist/Shintoist sects that became pseudo states did crop up historically in Japan, but they pretty quickly got stamped out

[remote monolith]

Neo-Aztec Nahua state under Montezuma X

[narrow rover]

One thing that never gets discussed is how the annexation of Korea massively boosted the army's standing in Japanese politics, though. Without Korea Japan straight up cant expand into the continent

[remote monolith]

Me when in my thousand years of history I try to invade Korea three separate times and they all fail badly

[narrow rover]

I mean, for countries that are less than 200km away from each other, warring 2 times over a course of 700+ years is a remarkably rare ordeal

Korea had more fights with Chinese dynasties than fighting Japan

[remote monolith]

In fairness, Japan's history is a fair bit more recent too

China was already killing each other for hundrede of years before the Han while the earliest identifiable Japanese emperor dated probably not earlier than 500 or so, aka Kinmei

The other ones are semi-mythical at best

[narrow rover]

I mean I think you get it lol

Trying to link Hideyoshi's invasion of Korea to Japan's conquest of Korea in the late 19th and early 20th century is... not really historical

It used to be a popular historical sentiment here but it's faded from academia.

[remote monolith]

Kekw you're not wrong, I just like doing that because of how similar the imperialistic premise is

[narrow rover]

I think more people are trying to find links between "Kokugaku" (nation studies) and Japanese imperialism. Kokugaku scholars were trying to find something that is "unique" to Japan and establish a national identity, which sometimes culminated in a form of "cultural supremacy" or the ahistorical sentiment that Korea was a part of Japan many centuries ago.

[remote monolith]

Like the fact Hideyoshi genuinely did dream to try and steamroll Korea and then into China the exact same was as Imperial Japan was.... Kinda comical

[narrow rover]

The only thing I can say on this matter is that island nations tend to look outside for sources of wealth, i mean look at Britain....

[remote monolith]

In fairness, the English kinda stopped expansionist war on the mainland since the Hundred Years War ended and they lost everything but Calais

The counter-armada aside

[narrow rover]

But Japan's colonization scheme started off as a security measure. Put as much territory between you and Russia. It's not the same as European colonization that started off as economic endeavors

Funnily enough the other country that colonized like this was... Germany and Italy

...coincidence...?

[remote monolith]

Twist of fate I'm sure, although German colonization abroad was really less finding economical alternatives and more vanity project since there's not even that big of an interest domestically for something like that

[narrow rover]

It seems like late comers to the colonization project often resorted to extreme measures

Like Germany in Namibia. Guh that was gross...

Japan also got quite nasty in Manchuria even before WW2 and it got worse when hostilities happened. Like shoving opium addicts into mines as essentially robots of bone and flesh...

[remote monolith]

The German one was pretty much because Wilhelm was a giant dick

No really

[narrow rover]

I mean you can blame usually one guy for everything but the people doing the slaughter was complicit too

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, Hideoyoshi would have great success had it not for the existence of Yi Yun Shin that bought enough time for Ming to organize an actual expedition force capable of fighting pitch battle with the Japanese.

[autumn sorrel]

I'd like to see a scenario where Nurhaci fighting Samurai

[narrow rover]

Nah, not really. A researcher once said Japan is the land of tactics that strategy forgot. Hideyoshis entire plan hinged on Korean notions of warfare being exactly the same as Japanese, and that the king wouldn't leave the capital and be captured.

He had no grand strategy except HIT KOREA GODDAMN HARD

...profit?

The tactics were amazing, like amassing the largest amphibious invasion force the world had ever seen at that point

But the strategy was lacking

[autumn sorrel]

Well, Did Korean Court actually present an united front against the Japanese?

[narrow rover]

The king was okay, and the military kept up the struggle

[autumn sorrel]

The fact that the Court daily backstabbing sent multiple capable war leaders into their death make it a very decent case study on how Neo Confucianism almost doom the war effort.

[autumn sorrel]

What if that was the plan? Hideoyoshi might have Chinese ambition but as a practical man, he also have to deal with the fact that his nation is full of soldier that suddenly see themselves without a job due to unification. Either he take a long time to demobilize them and risk unrest or, just send them all to Korea. If they win then great, if they lose then what he going to lose? Soldiers of Damiyo that could have threaten his rule?

[narrow rover]

Yea there's some suggestion Hideyoshi's invasion was just to get rid of extra troops.
The Korean government was a flaming pile of shit but there was one thing they did well that made people keep struggling against the Japanese
...tax rates
Korea's historical tax rate was rather low.
When Japan (historically had sky high tax rates) implemented its own tax system on captured Korean territories, the peasantry essentially considered that a scheme to starve everyone to death. Because the tax rates they implemented was SO GODDAMN HIGH (...it was actually lower than in Japan proper).

Also Joseon was one of the most unified regions in the world. There was no strong regional or ethnic rivalry Japan could use to its advantage.

Now all of these advantages kind of became disadvantages in the late Joseon era and slapped us in the balls but that's another story

[remote monolith]

Thatll actually be pretty epic

Manchu horse archers fighting Yari Ashigaru and mounted Samurai

[remote monolith]

low tax rate

Goddamn Confucian strikee again

[narrow rover]

It probably contributed to China never knowing how many people was exactly in its borders until like 1950

E.g. it's a bit of a nightmare trying to find out how many Chinese died in WW2, because the last national census was in the 1750s, which was also extremely inaccurate, and neither the Chinese nor the Japanese were great at counting corpses.

In that kind of situation you can never tax properly.

Korea bizarrely had similar issues despite not being nearly big enough to have such problems.

[remote monolith]

I'm not too familiar with Korean history, but I do know it's heavily influenced by Confucianism and other Chinese thoughts

[remote monolith]

https://fxtwitter.com/HooptyBooty/status/1987880687181971859

HauptmannHK 🇧🇪🇺🇦 🇪🇺 (@HooptyBooty)

Funeral procession for a Belgian soldier whose remains were found in September during the construction of a bike lane in Diksmuide. 111 years after his death, he'll finally get to rest alongside his comrades.

Quoting David Vandenberghe (@Davdberg)
︀
Deze ochtend vond het eerste deel van de begrafenisceremonie plaats aan de Dodengang, in aanwezigheid van @FranckenTheo. De kist werd door middel v/e originele fouragère wagen (privébezit) en een historische escorte (vrijwilligers) overgebracht nr De Panne. (Fotos De Panne).

**💬 1 🔁 5 ❤️ 45 👁️ 711 **

FxTwitter · Nov 10, 2025, 1:51 PM

another fallen soldier, his name known unto god

[spring briar]

[narrow rover]

We're also routinely excavating soldiers from the Korean War. American soldiers also often turn up in the bone pile...

[timber linden]

https://youtu.be/_2f0tZBSByI?si=0vyo_woHtutNOnzo

[runic ermine]

May he rest in peace

@spring briar question, do they teach about French involvement in the American Revolutionary War in France?

[spring briar]

Yeah
But not in depth

Like a mention

[narrow rover]

IDK why but when I was a child I thought the US Civil War was like the Korean War
North vs South so

[peak mango]

Well it was, pretty much the industrialized north v the agricultural south.

[runic ermine]

50 years...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/edmund-fitzgerald-50-year-anniversary-9.6971199

[narrow rover]

Eh, in case of the Korean war the industry was up north, but due to a large number of people fleeing the Soviets the North Koreans was actually short on qualified staff to run said industry, and had to forcibly prevent Japanese staff from leaving for years.

[runic ermine]

What about French colonization of the Americas?

[spring briar]

The bullet points

[narrow rover]

I like America so I wish there was three of them

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUaZ6aJkMHA

[runic ermine]

In Canada we study New France heavily early on

[spring briar]

interesting

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u1ibtv5J70

[runic ermine]

What do you guys learn?

[narrow rover]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinghai–Tibet_War

Mind, this is WHILE the Japanese were rolling into Manchuria and almost effortlessly taking an area double the size of Texas in weeks

...god China was a disaster

[runic ermine]

I feel like I mentioned last year how bad China's situation was

[spring briar]

I was schooled in belgium

[narrow rover]

I mean it comes up often. It's... bad

[runic ermine]

A fake country?

[spring briar]

Belgium is older than most countries

[runic ermine]

I know I was joking

[runic ermine]

Found it
#history message

[narrow rover]

Tbh with hindsight
There are countries that never recover from that level of chaos. Like just look at something like Yugoslavia or the fall of the USSR.

That China was able to muster some strength and eventually "outlive" the Japanese empire was quite impressive, even though the US did most of the work there.

...the government did change as a result but that's another story

[runic ermine]

France also did something similar

[runic ermine]

Several times...

[narrow rover]

I mean France was completely overrun, China was not

[runic ermine]

Im talking about:
-Lost all colonial holdings in North America
-Broke
-Help America gain independence from Britain in order to get back at them
-America doesn't pay back and the economy is even more fucked
-New King is weak and he knows it
-Peasants revolt and make France a republic
-The new government is divided between the radicals and the moderates
-Radicals eventually have full control and begin killing everyone including the King and Queen
-Pretty much all of Europe declares war
-A lot of peasants are unhappy that the revolution is turning Anti-Catholic and entire provinces revolt
-Crazy guy in power and his supporters get chopped
-New government is unpopular while a certain General is...

[narrow rover]

Lmao

So not WW2

[runic ermine]

End of the Seven Years' War to the start of the Napoleonic Wars

Like its a miracle France survived

Maybe God still loves his eldest daughter even when she's going through a phase

[narrow rover]

Some regions just have plot armor

[spring briar]

It really doesn’t have much to do with that

[desert agate]

I think putting MQ-28 on the Canberra class would be a reasonable and inexpensive force multiplier for the RANs expeditionary component

[terse mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOtbP7DkgaY

[desert agate]

https://fxtwitter.com/CDF_Aust/status/1987991277967995112?s=20

Admiral David Johnston (@CDF_Aust)

Lest we forget 🌹

**💬 2 🔁 11 ❤️ 29 👁️ 1.0K **

▶ Play video

FxTwitter · Nov 10, 2025, 9:10 PM

Lest we forget

[narrow rover]

Reckon this is a real aircraft propeller

Or just some decoration

It was found in Japan. There weren't a lot of 4 bladed, wooden props being used there, so if this is a real propeller it might be an incredible find.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG2NmYrktFw

[desert agate]

More pictures would help, but I'm inclined to say that it's real, it looks a little bit too good to just be a decorative piece

But also I don't have much experience with wooden props

[shrewd pecan]

depending on who made it should have a serial number of some sort on it

past that it looks like a aircraft propeller but identifying what it is without mesaurements or the serial number is gonna be near impossible considering the amount of aircraft that used wooden 4 bladed propellers

[desert agate]

The biggest thing that makes me think maybe not is the wood splitting and the join at the base of the propeller blade

Admittedly there are not many 4 bladed wooden propellers out there

But the ones that exist generally seem to have cleaner joins

@chilly flower may be of assistance here

[narrow rover]

I reckoned it had warped due to age. Propellers aren't meant to be used for roof material like that...

[runic ermine]

Plot armour? Cuz France was one of the main characters for a bit

[narrow rover]

https://x.com/teikenCG/status/1988163456802160889?t=dBATQUriLCkB1_jmOzuTpQ&s=19

宮間めさの@聯合艦隊建造系VTuber (@teikenCG)

G6 蒼龍原案を建造中です！

X · Nov 11, 2025, 8:34 AM

How much of a bad idea is this
Battle carrier but triple turret stack up front

Probably 8" cruser turrets

[subtle prawn]

https://bsky.app/profile/flightradar24.com/post/3m5eoo5t3e22m

Flightradar24 (@flightradar24.com)

One pilot in Canada took to the skies for a #RemembranceDay tribute. Dimitri Neonakis has a history of special sky art in Canada, most recently a flight path supporting the Toronto Blue Jays in the World Series. See www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraf... for playback of this flight and others.

Likes

110

▶ Play video

Bluesky · Nov 11, 2025, 5:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHyfQixr4I

[spring briar]

To get more british views

[peak mango]

Imagine Sara but with Des Moines autoloaders.

[narrow rover]

I mean I don't think they'll fit

But if you can get that firepower out of a Zara then congrats you've just invented Über Cruiser 101

[peak mango]

Wdym? Lexington class had 4x2 8" turrets.

[narrow rover]

More like weight

Des Moines is like 17000 tons

Zara class cruisers are
What, 11000 tons standard?

[peak mango]

Sara ... toga. Not Zara

Guns were removed in 42 and weren't super helpful.

But with autoloader and AA centric shells...

[narrow rover]

Bruh
I thought you misspelled Zara

Well I still think they'd be a bit heavy to install without modifications

[spiral cedar]

Yeah the DM autoloading 8" turrets are way heavier (about 50% heavier iirc) than the Baltimore 8" turrets

Which are themselves heavier than the comparatively lightweight 8" twin mounts the Lexingtons had

Note "mount;" the early interwar US 8" turrets were not technically "turrets" in USN terminology (they excluded certain design features that made them simpler and lighter)

Plus the early ones also tended to be barely armored and thus lighter

DM turret weight so high up will require structural changes to the Lexingtons as well as weight rebalancing (non-centerline)

[narrow rover]

I think you could do it, it'd just not be worth it

[runic ermine]

https://x.com/Galatee_3/status/1988290406329839747?t=bWDcmP6MOjygK3IE3xkUYQ&s=19

Zyklop (@Galatee_3)

X · Nov 11, 2025, 4:59 PM

[spiral cedar]

There were two different kinds of mountings. The earliest ones were officially classified as "twin mounts" and "triple mounts" rather than "turrets," as they had handling rooms directly below the gunhouse and did not have a rotating stalk. The later mountings used on New Orleans (CA-32), Astoria (CA-34) and Minneapolis (CA-36) were classified as "triple turrets" as they did have a rotating stalk. All of these mountings had the guns in a single sleeve.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W71EJo9ZjPU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE0uQssakno

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/xa1ALtQqrVs

a blast from the past

[twilit geyser]

004 class aircraft carrier under construction.

Enterprise a year ago to compare.

[peak mango]

War to end all wars ...

[peak mango]

Definitely not worth it for AA turrets... (basically the use of those mounts at the end of ww2 any any rate)

[narrow rover]

It should have been
But the postwar peace conference was the peace to end all peace

[peak mango]

What conditions would have been needed, that the germans could accept, not to become aggressive again?

[narrow rover]

I mean I don't know
But actually occupying the whole of Germany would have at least worked to dispell things like the backstab myth
It's why post WW2 Germany/Japan didn't get aggressive again (among other reasons)

[peak mango]

So, you think a harsher agreement was required.

[narrow rover]

I think... I mean, even if, say, the Russians survived and were at the peace conference demanding a much harsher treaty (probably results in Germany being broken up), someone's going to put the pieces back together in 20~30 years

So it's not all that bad for Germany either

[peak mango]

Russians were.. self occupied at the moment.

[narrow rover]

Well uhh
Yea
There's where all the problems began

The Russian revolution...

[peak mango]

And if the western allies demanded too much, the germans would still have kept fighting.

[narrow rover]

Eeh, kinda, but I reckon it'd be a few months to Berlin at the most

[peak mango]

Sure, but would anyone in 1918 agree with you?

[narrow rover]

No

It's with 100% hindsight

To be fair Japan or heck even a surviving Russian empire could have started something on their own so even killing Germany could end up not being enough

[remote monolith]

as bad as it sounds, yeah very likely

Versailles as it happened was a pretty slap in the wrist and no more given that Germany was in a position to pay off its debts at the time

[narrow rover]

It's the worst of both worlds. It's not harsh enough to force Germany to change, but meanwhile also harsh enough that it makes people pissed

And also no means to make sure the changes stick.

[remote monolith]

its the golden means fallacy personified, tried to balance the demands of the different Allied victors and failed to satisfy anyone

[narrow rover]

It was probably the only real course of action unless a meteor hit Berlin in 1917 or something. But goddamn, it was STUPID

Which makes me think... why couldnt the Tunguska meteor hit something significant

[autumn sorrel]

None

Germany will rise again even if the peace terms were favourable

[peak mango]

So no peace should have been offered without unconditional surrender.

So... The fight would have continued.

[autumn sorrel]

Yes

[peak mango]

Not sure anyone in WW1 would have been ready for that.

[autumn sorrel]

The reason why post ww2 Germany and Japan was so easily amiable to the near complete disarmament of the their nations is the horror of total war that the population experienced. WW1 Germany civilians was mostly intact and the Imperial Army up until the end of the war while exhausted still pretty much a coherent fighting force unlike the shattered Wehrmacht of ww2, that's why the backstabbing myth was invented.

[subtle prawn]

Actually having Allied troops march into Germany to ensure those nationalists can't proliferate the myth the military was stabbed in the back by the politicians and the Jewish people

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, I would blame the Communist agitator in the Navy.

[peak mango]

Blood no one in 1918 wanted to spill.

[narrow rover]

Apparently it was possible to chill in the countryside in Japan and not realize the destruction had been significant

So right after the surrender, some people were genuinely shocked they'd lost
Mind, Japan was 70% rural at this point

Until they came out of their hidy holes and saw the bomb damaged cities
"OH THATS WHY we lost... fair I guess"

you can also have Germany straight up win the war but that's just Kaiserreich

Japan go home, you're drunk

...1945 design

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EgycFLlKys

[brittle glacier]

Well this jut gives me terrible ideas…https://vxtwitter.com/hw97karbine/status/1988509819192606950?s=46&t=TEoI1NedDr2SzpcZHBLRdw

hw97karbine (@hw97karbine)

HMS M1 Submarine Monitor armed with a single 12-inch Mark IX gun

The vessel was lost with all hands #otd a century ago in 1925 after colliding with the Swedish SS Vidar

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Nov 12, 2025, 7:31 AM

[runic ermine]

The Red Army surprisingly got a few Pershings from Lend Lease

[lilac pollen]

Wait what when the tank was still fairly new by the end of the war, why would the US send it to the Soviets

[runic ermine]

Idk

[peak mango]

I mean turboprops are more efficient, but it doesn't look that far from, say, a P6M.

[narrow rover]

I mean yea but I wouldn't be dreaming of a super flying boat in 1945 Japan
You're losing the war

I'm willing to bet it influenced this design though

[peak mango]

No carriers left, gotta fly /something/

[narrow rover]

To be fair it's not the WORST Japan idea from 1945

[peak mango]

rocket powered human guided missiles, you say?

[narrow rover]

It's usually

grandiose ÜBER WEAPONS
more innovative ways to kill yourself
war crimes unseen since medieval times

I'm still shocked these guys found a way to weaponize human empathy

E.g. offering to surrender, and then blowing yourself up with hidden grenades and taking the people accepting the surrender with you

Or the hidden threat that 200,000 PoWs held in Japan would be executed if the allies set foot on Kyushu

Which made even the Americans rethink downfall (definitely a contributing factor)

I mean, it's a symptom of trying EVERYTHING to win, regardless of whether it's moral or not, but still... goddamn

[peak mango]

corpse boobytraps have been a thing. Or severely injured troops having one last grenade.

[narrow rover]

This is the army that made a doctrine out of "disposing" your own injured troops if they became a liability, and brainwashed everyone into accepting it

[peak mango]

Not historically unique.. unfortunately.

[narrow rover]

I can only assume how frightening it was to go up against them... knowing you're dead if you get captured. Basically fighting the 40K drukhari but IRL

also human experiments, also very 40k

[peak mango]

I mean .. it's literally happening within the last few years.

[narrow rover]

To be honest...? Yea...
Maybe WW2 obscured some of the other disgusting conflicts happening everywhere else.
Like the East Pakistan conflict killed 3 million in the most horrific massacre since WW2 and 90% of the world population basically doesn't know

[lilac pollen]

Bro give me information without a source lol

[runic ermine]

https://www.tankarchives.com/2018/03/pershing-heavy-by-necessity.html?m=1

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_VEeEj1buM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7LI4jAGKYs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXsy1sIOKg

[lilac pollen]

I mean the source when the Soviet get to receive it

[timber linden]

It has made the world the way it is currently

[brittle glacier]

Are there any instances of depth charge projectors being used to DI surface ships?

[peak mango]

sounds like a desparation move.

[brittle glacier]

My mind immediately goes to ships like the Glowworm, Piorun and Laffey(459)...

[peak mango]

I mean you'd basically need to be right next to the target.

And... it's not a lot of explosive charge per unit.

I mean that's ramming and rock throwing distance.

[brittle glacier]

Aye that's what I was getting at.

[narrow rover]

Hard to get to ramming distance in WW2 unless it's something extraordinarily lucky like Glowworm

The polish DD during the chase for Bismarck supposedly closed in to almost machine gun range but they also got lucky Bismarck was too preoccupied to blow it out of the water

[remote monolith]

https://phys.org/news/2025-11-pterosaur-species-previously-overlooked-specimen.html

TLDR, new Pterosaur species discovered in what amounts to a fossilized dinosaur vomit

the dinosaur in question is likely Irritator given that its northeastern Brazil

[peak mango]

Laffey was 6m away from Hiei .. I mean if she had hedgehogs that weren't exploded on deck at that point, I'm sure she'd have used them.

"So close that the guns could not depress low enough to hit her"

[remote monolith]

related to this, here's the holotype for Ludodactylus who apparently died after its jaw got punctured by a giant yucca leaf

[maiden citrus]

I remember reading about that lol

[autumn sorrel]

Yucca leaf is that hard?

[remote monolith]

Some of them are hard ans sharp enough to get lodged like this yeah

Poor thing just don't have the tools to get rid of it

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsFqlVwzzGU

[brittle glacier]

Might’ve actually killed the Japanese CO…

[narrow rover]

Iirc the commander was injured but wasn't dead

[narrow rover]

A bit of an extraordinary case really
Almost boarding range

[brittle glacier]

“Might’ve actually killed” as in, could have succeeded.

[brittle glacier]

Boarding you say?

https://tenor.com/view/sir-yes-sir-oorah-marines-ram-ranch-gif-22934490

That would’ve been so funny.
“Combat boarding actions? In the year of our lord Nineteen and Forty-two?!?!?!”

So much chicanery could have been done. Rifle grenades down hallways, corn fed farm boy Marines against Japanese Sailors…

[eternal veldt]

Except it did happen in the action of USS Buckley against a sub.

Same for USS Borie, also against a sub.

[brittle glacier]

A suicide boarding party(in Buckley’s case) isn’t the same as Marines boarding an enemy battleship in the middle of an active naval firefight.

[eternal veldt]

Both cases are similar that the ships were not identified until the very last minute, and that there was no time to get sufficiently clear to use the larger weapons effectively.

In the case of Laffey, it is fortuitous that she was not sliced in half by Hiei in the chaos of that night.

Boarding Hiei would...most assuredly be a fantasy.

[brittle glacier]

That’s just quitter talk.

[eternal veldt]

Ask Curacoa and Ingraham what happened when larger ships collided with them.

[peak mango]

last ditch boarding action would be hilarious though. The sheer crew size difference would be suicidal, but it'd be a hell of a way to disrupt gun crews and rather distracting to fighting the ship. Not that there'd be a boarding team at the ready or anything.

[brittle glacier]

I am aware what happens when giant boats smack into smaller ones.

[brittle glacier]

The Americans would have Thompsons handy. That’s a pretty good step up on the Japs…

[peak mango]

west phillipine sea games of chicken?

[brittle glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-simpson-car-crash-chestnut-tree-gif-17501269138887961856

[brittle glacier]

Also yes.

[brittle glacier]

“Rattle em boys!!!”

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/GarethJennings3/status/1988916297342554506

Gareth Jennings (@GarethJennings3)

Two years after selecting the @BoeingDefense E-7A #Wedgetail as an interim #AWACS successor, @NATO has now abandoned the acquisition as "the strategic and financial basis has disappeared" - www.defensie.nl/actueel/nieuws/2025/11/13/awacs-partners-zoeken-alternatief-voor-vervanging-vloot

Quoting Gareth Jennings (@GarethJennings3)
︀
.@NATO selects @BoeingDefense E-7A #Wedgetail for its #AWACS replacement. Six aircraft to be delivered to @NATOAWACS, to begin operations from 2031... www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_219907.htm?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=natopress&utm_campaign=20231115_awacs

**💬 14 🔁 53 ❤️ 170 👁️ 61.9K **

FxTwitter · Nov 13, 2025, 10:26 AM

[peak mango]

gotta love european procrument. So.. A320+the NG MESA radar then.

[subtle prawn]

It got cancelled because the Americans withdrew from the program

[brittle glacier]

When have we ever followed through with a major European program? Save for maybe ammunition.

[autumn sorrel]

Sad but predictable

[peak mango]

Fair, though unless they wanted the USAF variant the existing design for the Aussie+ version should have been procruable for basically unit cost.

[desert agate]

The RAAF Wedgetail is the same as all of the others

[peak mango]

Poor wording on Boeing's part, it seems like. A lot of people reported it would be a specific US variant.. I guess it's just Boeing overrunning costs at this point.

I mean it's not like the Navy didn't eff up procuring the FREMM ...

https://theaviationist.com/2023/03/01/u-s-air-force-starts-e-7-rapid-prototype-program-as-e-3-awacs-replacement/

Example ... "Boeing said in a press release that two variants of the E-7 will developed, but did not provide further details. Some analysts suggested two examples of the same variant will be built and not two different ones for the USAF."

[subtle prawn]

<@&460646206851252224>

[knotty ibex]

Don’t forget Nantucket 117

[runic ermine]

Any upcoming history games or movies that you guys are keeping tabs on?

[subtle prawn]

https://bsky.app/profile/navalnews.com/post/3m5npm36xok2h

Naval News (@navalnews.com)

Upgraded Mogami At Indo Pacific – (Non) Zero Change, Shipbuilder Makes Move 🇦🇺
By @alxluck.bsky.social
www.navalnews.com/event-news/i...

-# Upgraded Mogami At Indopac - On Zero Change And Shipbuilding
Government and industry officials provide new information on changes for RAN Upgraded Mogami. Meanwhile Civmec touts frigate-building skills.

Bluesky · Nov 15, 2025, 7:52 AM

[mental tapir]

Goofy ahh "The Final Countdown" alt-hist: Battle of Britain but it's the modern RAF vs the modern Luftwaffe

[brittle glacier]

Meh.

[narrow rover]

Modern Germans being sent back is funny because iirc they'll support the allies but I also think a lot of them would want to prevent Germany from being split

[timber linden]

Both are gutted shells of what they were even in a modern sense

[narrow rover]

"Okay we'll help y'all defeat our grandparents but here's the thing, can we shoot a few at the Russians?"

Same with say, modern Japanese being sent back, though iirc they'd try to stop the nukes at all cost

I wonder if the best use for the modern forces would be to pull off some sort of kidnapping mission, like yoink Hitler straight from the bunker and force him to announce a surrender at gun point

[brittle glacier]

No. We flatten Soviet Industry.