history

[shrewd pecan]

a kuznetsov

a costly vessel considering you want both a carrier and a destroyer in one

one that your likely gonna also have to add extra escorts to the CSG to help protect

[peak mango]

ddg with an extended flight deck.

[shrewd pecan]

you aren't operating F-35Bs from a burke with a extra long flight deck

remove the F-35s and your basically asking for a San Antonio with a proper radar/weapon suite and its well dock deleted to more room for aircraft

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio-class_amphibious_transport_dock

your filling a role that basically

does not need to exist

[peak mango]

Idk. Remember some 5th gen air cover > no 5th gen air cover.

[shrewd pecan]

the carrier

can operate F-35Cs

we are not Russia or the Soviet Union

[peak mango]

can't independently steam.

Needs a group.

[shrewd pecan]

ok?

your cope carrier

is going to need escorts as well

no one in their right mind is going to let a vessel of that size and cost out alone without a pair of escorts

[peak mango]

Soooooo .. cheaper? 400' vessel can handle F35Bs, have sufficient armaments for self defense, and do .. say, LE missions.

[shrewd pecan]

my 4 billion dollar vessel

that has to manage both a DDG grade armament and sensor suite

[peak mango]

Nah. Cheap stuff with a deck and a small hangar.

[shrewd pecan]

so

its not a destroyer anymore

and it reverts to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Control_Ship

[peak mango]

It's a cutter... lol.

[shrewd pecan]

so my

F-35 platform meant to operate independently

that does not have a DDG grade weapon/sensor suite

[peak mango]

LHA (but those have escorts)

[shrewd pecan]

a aircraft carrying destroyer is not at all gonna be cheap I'm gonna be frank

[peak mango]

most destroyers carry aircraft (helos)

[shrewd pecan]

your lucky if it does not end up more than twice a burke to procure

1-2 helicopters

is different from

a squadron of F-35Bs and MV-22s

[peak mango]

Did I say squadron? 2+2 (maybe more, but not immensely so)... also hangar space is cheap.

[shrewd pecan]

what is even the point

if your managing

4 aircraft

all of that expense

for 1 operational aircraft at a time...

(if your lucky)

[peak mango]

Big diff between a single H-60 vs V22 (w/ refueling, which.. didn't get funded welp) and some minimal amount of F35s.

[shrewd pecan]

WHAT IS THE POINT IN 2 F-35BS

YOUR NOT EVEN GONNA BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN FLIGHT OPS FOR THEM

[shrewd pecan]

my destroyer doesn't need MV-22s

[desert agate]

So true!

[peak mango]

Depends on the opfor. But say, pop up CAP, strike vs unexpected targets, etc.

[shrewd pecan]

🙏 manage one sortie with both F-35Bs until you lose all of your air coverage for both requiring maintenance

[desert agate]

Do you know what aircraft readiness rates are?

[shrewd pecan]

I pointed out he wanted a kuznetsov

[desert agate]

4 planes is fucking pathetic

[shrewd pecan]

and then he negotiated himself down to the cope aviation destroyer

[peak mango]

Lol.. no.

[shrewd pecan]

your going to need a kuznetsov to make this concept at all work

[peak mango]

4 planes where none exist is pretty powerful, tbh.

[desert agate]

4 planes which are all down for maintenance isn't powerful at all

[shrewd pecan]

🙏 one sortie from the cope aviation destroyer

over just using you know

cruise missiles

[peak mango]

Too bad you don't have a half dozen because they're cheap.

[shrewd pecan]

my cheap 200 million dollar F-35B

[peak mango]

Ikr. SSGNs > all .. wait no.

[desert agate]

Also keep in mind the sheer scale of facilities that operating a small group of F-35s needs is far more than a modern DDG could possibly spare without losing capability

[shrewd pecan]

hence why

your gonna need something equivalent to a kuznetsov

if you want DDG armament/sensors on a carrier

[desert agate]

You might as well just put all of those maintenance facilities on a single ship so that all the experienced and trained crews don't need to be replicated a dozen times

[peak mango]

We've never had rotational air capacities ever...

[shrewd pecan]

rotational air capacity on a ship with only 4 aircraft

[desert agate]

That's not what that means buddy

[peak mango]

Or one ... nah I've never seen a single aircraft deployed with a minimal det that'll maintain it.

[desert agate]

A single F-35 requires between 4 and 9 hours of maintenance per hour of flight time
Lets take our hypothetical airgroup of 4 and launch a single 6 hour sortie
That means by the time it lands, it will need to go into about 30 hours of maintenance
Obviously these aren't hard numbers but they illustrate the point
Over say, a few days of continous operations, eventually you will hit a point where all 4 airframes will need to be in some degree of deep maintenance

You need a significantly larger airgroup if you want to maintain constant sorties for more than 2-3 days

And that's being generous

[peak mango]

Assumption - 'continuous ops'.

[desert agate]

And realistically, what capability is this F-35 adding that doesn't already exist?
A DDG can engage airborne threats at extreme ranges
Your F-35 has a powerful sensor suite but it's no replacement for an E-2, and good luck getting that off the deck without a catapult

So what are you enhancing?
1 plane isn't enough to maintain an air defence picket
It's also not really going to do much in a strike role, you need a saturation bombardment on most naval targets, and 1 plane just isn't enough

Where are you making a capability enhancement here?

[shrewd pecan]

my 4 billion dollar aircraft carrying destroyer incapable of undergoing continious air operations

[peak mango]

Is it gonna get more expensive every statement?

[shrewd pecan]

a burke is 2.5 billion

4 billion is generous

[shrewd pecan]

also this

[peak mango]

And a legend is 700m

[shrewd pecan]

if your capability estimate is that of a legend

what is the point of this thing

[peak mango]

extended flight deck.

[shrewd pecan]

that cannot protect itself

[peak mango]

Sure it can.

[desert agate]

You physically cannot fit 4 F-35s and their maintenance facilities and armament on a ship that weighs 4'700t

[shrewd pecan]

a legend is not surviving submarine or modern anti ship missile threats

your entire point here

was a ship capable of operating independently of a CSG with minimal escorts

and you want something with no aircraft and no sensors/armament

at this point

you're literally better off reviving the sea control ship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Control_Ship
since this is actually logical as a F-35B platform

while actually being relatively cheap

[desert agate]

Keep in mind that the smallest functioning aircraft carrier in the world, the Thai Chakri Naruebet still weighs 11'000t and has an airgroup of about 12, which is barely enough to maintain a sortie rate worth discussing

[shrewd pecan]

SCS capable of managing up to 20

[peak mango]

btw you're right but 😛 not in the SCS config. Anyway, heading to bed.

[shrewd pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/ichika-suzumi-justice-realization-committee-justice-task-force-pandemonium-society-mob-gif-15475387450835395859

[peak mango]

air groups are a mix and it's all a bunch of min/max.

[shrewd pecan]

20 aircraft vs a whooping 4

[peak mango]

Depends on the aircraft, dunnit.

[desert agate]

Well an F-35 is going to take up more space than just about anything else you can put on these ships, plus facilities

[shrewd pecan]

20 aircraft which if even just half are F-35Bs are still overall more F-35Bs than your cope creation...

[peak mango]

cope harder. Nah. Tbh? If the F35s need to fly for more than self defense and/or strike against semi defended foes, you need a CCG

[shrewd pecan]

didn't you want

[desert agate]

[shrewd pecan]

cutter grade armament

so like

a 57 MM

and a single phalanx

[desert agate]

What is your SINGLE airborne F-35 going to defend against that an Arleigh Burke class could not already defend against with its current armament

What is the theoretical threat envelope that your F-35 can compensate for

[peak mango]

what's the range of a burke again?

[desert agate]

SM-6 can hit targets upwards of 460km

[shrewd pecan]

the burke can engage air targets out to 460+ KMs using its ERAMs

land based targets out to about 1,666 KMs using its tomahawks

and ships out to like 600-200 KMs using either anti ship tomahawk or harpoon

[desert agate]

As if one or two F-35s could do more damage than a single Burkes Tomahawk barrage

[peak mango]

at.. what altitude?

[shrewd pecan]

much higher than the F-35B can engage

[desert agate]

The most modern SM-6 versions can be used as anti-satellite weapons

[peak mango]

what's a horizon and why can't sea level radars ....

but I digress.

[shrewd pecan]

the F-35B isn't engaging ballistic missiles or satellites

[desert agate]

What's data link and combined battle management

[peak mango]

and imagine if the launched F35 was part of that ...

[desert agate]

Your hypothetical ship can't carry SM-6, it doesn't weigh enough to carry the sensor suite necessary

[shrewd pecan]

you went from a DDG with F-35Bs to a legend with F-35Bs

[peak mango]

SM-6 can fit into a 40' container.

[desert agate]

You can either have 4 F-35s on a 4600t hull
Or you can have maybe a few missile cells and a SPY-6 equivalent

You cannot have both

[shrewd pecan]

I'm gonna also point out the fact the Kuznetsov is actually capable of being a scary surface combatant if the Russians actually sustained her

[peak mango]

Still not a 40k+ Kruznetsov

[shrewd pecan]

the 40k ton western Kuznetsov would be a actually capable ship

capable of doing the things you want it to do

[desert agate]

Or, you could, double the tonnage, drop the fixed wing aviation and oh now we've accidentally made a DDG

If your ship needs air cover, and is operating away from a CSG, then the CSG needs to move closer to provide air cover, just slapping a few F-35s on a DDG doesn't solve the fundamental problems of requiring air cover

Air cover requires persistent capability and the ability to surge mass into the sky as quickly as possible

[peak mango]

Air cover and/or fleet support is a secondary mission.

[desert agate]

Then what is it going to do?

For the dozenth time

What is your plane actually trying to do

[peak mango]

LOL. What do you think ships do when they're not training for war?

[desert agate]

That is not an answer

You need a wartime capability

Otherwise, the capability is useless

[peak mango]

Imagine if wartime was only part of the mission...

[desert agate]

What is your plane going to do in wartime

[shrewd pecan]

so he wants a

glorified Moskava or Kiev

at like a 1/4th of the tonnage

[desert agate]

YOU WANT A WARSHIP THAT CANT FIGHT IN WAR

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskva-class_helicopter_carrier

[desert agate]

WARSHIPS

FIGHT

WARS

[peak mango]

Refuel strike packages. Picket. Etc.

[desert agate]

You can't have a picket with only 4 planes

[shrewd pecan]

the picket of 4 planes

[peak mango]

what is a 'radar picket', never heard of it.

[desert agate]

What strike packages? The idea is you're operating independently of a CSG, that means you're out of range

[desert agate]

A radar picket requires continious deployment

Which you have already said

You don't want

[peak mango]

opporturnistically in range.

[shrewd pecan]

the destroyers have something for this already

[desert agate]

How can you have a radar picket, if there isn't a radar picket all the time

[shrewd pecan]

its called a sea hawk

[peak mango]

You missed it, btw. It's exactly the answer.

[peak mango]

The futbol team? 😛

[shrewd pecan]

man I wonder what this radar is for on the Sea Hawk

[twilit geyser]

You just described the Izumo-class excerpt the Aegis..

[desert agate]

How about you try saying things instead of not saying things

[peak mango]

Ikr

[desert agate]

That might help us a little

[peak mango]

Izumo is a little too aviation centric, but yeah.

[shrewd pecan]

he wants a Izumo with DDG armament and then he revised that down to either a destroyer or cutter with only 4 F-35s

[twilit geyser]

SM-6 is exoatmospheric? Isn't that SM-3 at best?

[shrewd pecan]

both are tbh

[peak mango]

There's been intercepts

[peak mango]

2, actually. Small avdets with 5th gen strike generation. But in any case, nothing like a carrier's worth.

[shrewd pecan]

2 F-35s

[peak mango]

Are you saying that you can't make a meaningful strike with a pair of F35s?

[twilit geyser]

Within the atmosphere though.

[shrewd pecan]

yes

[peak mango]

k.

[shrewd pecan]

I don't even know

@desert agate can JSM even fit in the F-35Bs bays?

[twilit geyser]

With severely limited aviation capability, it's best to sport helicopters at that. You're handicapping everything on your ship for the sake of aviation.

[desert agate]

Would you like to provide us with a target that would justify the expense of operating these planes that can also be destroyed by 2 planes

[shrewd pecan]

ok it can't, its F-35A & C only

B can only carry it externally

so

[desert agate]

I'm not sure because it isn't integrated on the F-35 yet but I don't think any of the F-35B operators are planning to buy it

[peak mango]

your mom... Er I mean idk.

[shrewd pecan]

you get a whooping 4 missiles....

with 2 F-35Bs

[shrewd pecan]

F-35Bs bays are too small for it from the looks of it

so external carriage only

in terms of the cope destroyer carrier

idfk what type of aviation facilities he's dealing with

since I doubt a F-35B is carrying JSMs in a vertical take off

[peak mango]

sdb.

[desert agate]

Please stop talking forever

[shrewd pecan]

sdbs aren't destroying ships

[peak mango]

who said anything about anti ship?

[desert agate]

THEN GIVE US A ROLE FOR THE PLANES THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO

[peak mango]

sdb

[shrewd pecan]

nothing

they're there to do nothing but look pretty

[desert agate]

just use a Tomahawk

[peak mango]

single use.

[shrewd pecan]

the F-35Bs on your ship are practically single use

[desert agate]

Then use another Tomahawk

[peak mango]

as you wish

[peak mango]

But like I said, zero/low/mid intensity roles.

[shrewd pecan]

the end product of what he wants...

[peak mango]

again, no..

[shrewd pecan]

your going to need

a flat deck to operate F-35Bs

these things aren't gonna be taking off vertically from the fucking helicopter pad

[peak mango]

through deck with reinforcements

[shrewd pecan]

so the F-35Bs are going to have zero range

and next to no armament

since now there weight limited

by needing to do vertical take offs

so you want the capability to

launch strikes using F-35Bs that can't go anywhere

and can't bring any armament

[peak mango]

Hrm. If only there wasn't immediate refueling...

[shrewd pecan]

the MV-22 refuelers

that don't exist

and aren't gonna be capable of carrying enough fuel to top off these F-35Bs

[peak mango]

Yeah RIP.

[shrewd pecan]

these F-35Bs that are also gonna have to cut weight to be able to make a landing on your cope carrier

[peak mango]

.. but no.

I'll replay the maths later. G'nite y'all.

[shrewd pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/ichika-suzumi-justice-realization-committee-justice-task-force-pandemonium-society-mob-gif-15475387450835395859

the western kuznetsov would made for a more interesting argument 😔

[peak mango]

yeah y'all would goon on it more.

[shrewd pecan]

it would of been actually capable of doing things

[twilit geyser]

Harrier Carrier

[peak mango]

container ship wen

[twilit geyser]

That's literally just Iran's new 'carrier'.

[shrewd pecan]

the drone carrier

[peak mango]

yup

[peak mango]

turks too

[shrewd pecan]

the Turks have a actual capable design

vs whatever the fuck this is

RC hobbyist ass ship

[narrow rover]

Iranian shipbuilding man

[brittle glacier]

Certain elements aren’t going to have those, Airborne and Marines most prominently.

[brittle glacier]

This one was hilarious.

[woeful heath]

I see, thanks.

I'm surprised some Roblox WoWS added it before Wargaming ever did

[narrow rover]

Battlecarriers are stupid smh

To be fair the only one ever built was not a good design

[runic ermine]

No they don't because its Turkey

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCG_Anadolu

[runic ermine]

Is it actually capable

[shrewd pecan]

yes considering its a licensed produced spanish design

[runic ermine]

So it isnt a Turkish design?

[little palm]

A good licensed design is better then a godawful in house one

[runic ermine]

I just dont like Turkey

[little palm]

Lame

[supple sandal]

Feel like whenever Wargaming is low on money they just say "release the weeb collab"

[cyan oriole]

yeah

and people actually buy the reskinned yamatos and whatever for $150

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/BoeingDefense/status/1973137132773580812

Boeing Defense (@BoeingDefense)

Celebrating 5️⃣0️⃣ years advancing the world's best attack helicopter!
︀︀
︀︀Since its first flight, the #AH64 Apache has evolved to become an indispensable asset on the battlefield.
︀︀
︀︀Thank you to all our global customers and supporters as we transform the Apache for the next era.

**💬 1 🔁 15 ❤️ 86 👁️ 4.8K **

FxTwitter · Sep 30, 2025, 9:25 PM

[zenith veldt]

https://imgur.com/a/L4a3fP7

[terse mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWqcidtcfgg

[subtle prawn]

<@&460646206851252224> Scammer

[narrow rover]

Japanese PoWs in Okinawa
And this one guy that has a head so huge it almost looks photoshopped

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yHHKADmgsM

[remote monolith]

Man ngl imperial museums vid title game had been kinda eh lately

I know they kinda need the money and shit but, idk it's just not that good even when the content itself is pretty solid

[subtle prawn]

It's for the clicks and algorithm

[remote monolith]

I know, it's algo bait in its purest form

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akkDq5CaV_k

[runic ermine]

Spain had it rough in the 19th century

-Peninsular War killing hundreds of thousands of people
-War of 1812 causing them to loose their last colonial holdings in modern day America
-Several wars of independence across the empire
-Spanish American War that really showing how much Spain had fallen from power

And things didn't immediately get better in the 20th century

[brittle glacier]

How long until we get 30mm magpul grenade drums?

[lilac pollen]

They did the right choice instead of sacrificing in vain

[narrow rover]

I mean... most did sacrifice themselves in vain

Battle of Okinawa was extremely bloody

• civilians caught in the midst of all that and killed

Around this time the Japanese army is getting increasingly skeptical of "spies"
Some people got executed for not following rationing orders (Yokohama or something, IDK exactly where it was)

Okinawa in particular has a really distinct regional dialect
Communication between mainland-born soldiers and locals was sometimes hard and it led to the solders executing random civilians out of paranoia

Ghastly, really

[rapid junco]

Chilean cruiser O'Higgins (ex-USS Brooklyn) with camouflage
https://www.navsource.net/archives/04/040/04040.htm

[runic ermine]

Rip
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/us/george-hardy-dead.html#:~:text=George Hardy%2C a retired Air,on Wednesday in Sarasota%2C Fla

[narrow rover]

RIP

[brittle glacier]

Fuck's SAKE!!!

<@&472236072743600148>

[topaz sparrow]

/kick 746775857569464410

[nova ice]

member must be a mention or valid user id.

[topaz sparrow]

Too early in the morning for ts

[runic ermine]

Timezone moment

[narrow rover]

[brittle glacier]

Homie probably got hacked, but incompetence must have consequences.

[junior trench]

"getting hacked" is really such a poor way of describing "didn't practice basic internet hygiene"

[brittle glacier]

No its clearly a 2000's movie nethackrunner on a custom uber laptop with 3gb of RAM.

https://tenor.com/view/hacker-pc-meme-matrix-codes-gif-11310648121341593764

[zealous vine]

Who's actually responsible for turning a ship's turret (5" all the way to 18")

[desert agate]

https://x.com/fictillius/status/1973891700121874939?s=46

Evan (@fictillius)

Dive dive dive

X · Oct 2, 2025, 11:23 PM

“This is the finest harbour in the world, and one day a fleet of ships built here could rule the world.”

[timber linden]

https://youtu.be/_Lbk6SrH1qs?si=Ci3BV7AazlnKPQwa

Not the best channel but still nice to see the wife getting talked about...despite her poor war performance

[junior trench]

darkslop

[autumn sorrel]

Hydraulic-electric system

[timber linden]

I remember when dark 5 was good. Those day they had the beat music and no voice over

[shrewd pecan]

#history returning to its routes of slop maxing

https://discord.com/channels/456397991847395339/1102857408478457916

we still have peak though

[autumn sorrel]

Man, knowing that US military have stuff like this in the late 80s

[junior trench]

if we doing those ads

we gotta have the peak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqDgn-qXr0E

[narrow rover]

Felton, go home
You're drunk

[peak mango]

Two manju with a hand crank (yay gear ratios), to hydraulics, to electrical.

[peak mango]

Mmmm grid square removal system.

[brittle glacier]

I’d imagine that’d be someone in the gunnery crew?

[supple sandal]

"was hitler gay" video when

[narrow rover]

Soon™

[runic ermine]

https://youtu.be/RR2nqneoe7A?si=I9TqYpCf5KV21Zym

[narrow rover]

Very

[runic ermine]

Most mechanized army in the war surprisingly

[narrow rover]

Yup

Least mechanized army, aside from the really shitty ones like the Chinese army was probably Japanese

[runic ermine]

1 to 3 ratio is wild

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMcnIqgmAaw

[runic ermine]

The Stalingrad of the Philippines

[narrow rover]

It's just fucked
200,000 civilians dead because one Japanese general (Sanji Iwabuchi) had a death wish essentially

[runic ermine]

https://x.com/Jason_R_Burt/status/1973881425977094382?s=19

J&L Historical (@Jason_R_Burt)

Getting baptized on Iwo Jima is some next level baptismal lore. 🇺🇸

X · Oct 2, 2025, 10:42 PM

[runic ermine]

I also found these
https://x.com/amerpipedream/status/1974108637552652634?s=19

Americana Pipedream Apparel (@amerpipedream)

Supposedly this is a French volunteer in the Yugoslav Wars. Thought it was interesting he’s wearing BGS Sumpftarn.

X · Oct 3, 2025, 1:45 PM

https://x.com/rac112apilas/status/1974142291913945301?s=19

Voltigeur (@rac112apilas)

French volunteers François Roulet and Gaston Besson serving in the Croatian army during the Yugoslav conflict.

X · Oct 3, 2025, 3:59 PM

Also:https://x.com/TeamTimekeeper/status/1974196922304114870

Team Timekeeper (@TeamTimekeeper)

@rac112apilas Fun fact, Gaston Besson was one of the co-founders of Ukraine's International Legion

X · Oct 3, 2025, 7:36 PM

[spring briar]

Neat

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/BoeingDefense/status/1974103330474635757

Boeing Defense (@BoeingDefense)

The @AustralianArmy's first two Apaches have touched down. 🇦🇺
︀︀
︀︀These are the first two of 29 total aircraft for Australia — the 18th nation to join our #AH64 family. The AH-64E will provide enhanced attack capability and allied interoperability.
︀︀
︀︀More: www.boeing.com.au/news/2025/first-boeing-ah-64e-apache-helicopters-delivered-to-australia0

**💬 7 🔁 44 ❤️ 326 👁️ 12.1K **

FxTwitter · Oct 3, 2025, 1:24 PM

[desert agate]

Thank god we're finally free of the Eurocopters

[autumn sorrel]

inb4 new orders

[desert agate]

ADF isn't buying European rotary platforms for a long time

Almost as if they're shit

[junior trench]

the PR disaster of them getting implicated with notably bad bush fires is also uh

y'know

[desert agate]

The Taipan was a notably disastrous platform

The biggest issue with the Tiger was that it was simply too expensive to operate and that it completely lacked parts commonality

There was also some underlying datalink and comms integration issues

The Tiger was the sort of platform that a robust acquisition program would have advised against

[junior trench]

iirc wasn't that the result of the uh

I forget the term

but like the Q&A stage of starting the procurement process

like the military was already saying they didn't want it

from the start

[desert agate]

The Tiger was probably the first platform to be acquired in the political environment that saw ADF buying so many flawed platforms in no small part because they promised a degree of local industry support that swayed political leadership

[junior trench]

the French are amazing suppliers, they are horrible partners

whatever workshare you think you agreed to, you're not going to get

[desert agate]

The impetus for buying a light attack helicopter really starts in Timor, where ADF realised their attack platforms were completely obsolete Vietnam era bushranger gunships that would have been utterly pathetic in a hot war with Indonesia

And the US didn’t really have any equivalent platforms on the market at the time

Sure the AH-1 exists but that was leaving US Army service at the time and I don’t think ADF was too keen on buying those airframes which inevitably would have happened

And Super Cobra had also been out of production for 20 years

The ADF that exists today is basically designed to do Timor again
The ADF that will exist in 20 years will be designed to actually fight and sustain a high intensity conflict anywhere in the region

[autumn sorrel]

ADF expect future conflict with Indonesia, again?

[desert agate]

No?

ADF spent 20 years acquiring platforms that could compensate for the capability shortfalls that operations in Timor, Fiji and others highlighted

Defence very quickly realised that it got very lucky on the political front in Timor, and had it been forced into a war with Indonesia, that war would have been bloody and difficult because ADF lacked expeditionary sustainment capability

[echo onyx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9H-Ynd6Eew

kitty

[narrow rover]

"Western style" sailing ships of Edo Japan (1840s)

[subtle prawn]

I hear the AW101 is a decent ASW chopper

[supple sandal]

Platform named "Tiger"
Is bad

I think I started to see the issue here

[supple sandal]

Premium

[supple sandal]

It isn't a Stalingrad if there isn't "oh we can totally supply this isolated position with just air transport"

[remote monolith]

in fairness even the Pzkfw VI was a pretty nice tank for the role it was intended for

aka a breakthrough tank in the sort of mobile doctrine Germany was pining for

it just so happens to be also a logistical nightmare built by a country with sever standardization and mass production issues and rampant cronyism

[narrow rover]

Even the best weapon cannot save a nation that has a skill issue

[eternal veldt]

In mild defense of it, they tried to reduce the parts required for it, including the interleaving system

And, as wunderwaffe as it is, some system to standardize production as despair starts setting in with the Entwicklung series.

Major issue: You're getting fucking bombed to oblivion and your precious metals aren't doing so hot.

[supple sandal]

Would be too funny to parachute on top of the enemy...

... That is also running a anti airborne drill

[narrow rover]

It's usually how most Axis programs ended up lol

Unless it was revived postwar

Germany kinda tried to revive the Breitspurbahn idea? Just for western Europe of course but the super wide gauge railway idea stayed

[supple sandal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/498678490800062464/1424040572540293263/Screenshot_2025-10-03-18-59-13-871-edit_com.google.android.youtube.jpg?ex=68e280a1&is=68e12f21&hm=a31fa0472777ba7537bf7896cb397d309d5755bb61097045c70bb978274d838b&

What plane is that

[remote monolith]

light blue

christ its the fucking Dutch, everybody run

[timber linden]

No pride in country leads to this

[spring briar]

Sure

But having a sense of humor also goes a long way

[lilac pollen]

That pilot is gonna a lecture after this

[cyan oriole]

I think battlecruiser tiger and cruiser tirger were fine

[supple sandal]

Ground crew

[brittle glacier]

Yup

That's a supply issue.

[narrow rover]

Perhaps the ground crew attached the wrong smoke cannister

[runic ermine]

Doing France's royal flag would probably be a nightmare

[spring briar]

Which one

Bourbon?

Restoration?

Early kingdom?

[timber linden]

Just do a generic French flag.....all white

[lilac pollen]

Ohhhh, that’s spicy

[autumn sorrel]

Gotta admit, Fleur-de-lis is better coat of arms than Republic tri-colors

[timber linden]

White smoke with puffs of yellow at timed intervals

[peak mango]

Alpha Jet.

[supple sandal]

why the US dont just make something like the BMD-4 but with more American style

They tried to make the MGS, the M10 booker

but those got nowhere

put the 105mm on the bradly hull?

[subtle prawn]

There was such a proposal in the past, but it didn't get past the drawing board

[narrow rover]

Post-WW2 German airship proposal

Sadly, didn't go very far

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_armored_gun_system the modernized M8 for MPF was internally a cramped mess

Closest your likely gonna get besides the stingray

[supple sandal]

Right

The Sheridan

[shrewd pecan]

personally

fuck the entire idea just joint procure a variant of the ACV or the LAV-25 with a 105 with the marine corps

if the entire idea is to have a assault gun with strategic mobility for a pacific fight you might as well just get something amphibious

[supple sandal]

The LAV aren't amphibious?

[shrewd pecan]

they’re

The marine corps are looking for a replacement rn

[autumn sorrel]

They tried, with Sheridan. Not really a good experiment and US doctrine never incorporate them properly

[autumn sorrel]

ACV already in LRIP

[shrewd pecan]

ACV is not the LAV-25 replacement

The ACVs is the size of a bus it is not replacing the LAV

[spring briar]

I agree

[spring briar]

Get better jokes

[echo onyx]

flamethrower ju 88

didn't know it was a thing

[supple sandal]

I seen people tried to do this in the last 100 years

It never worked

[autumn sorrel]

It worked, in smaller scale

Chinese infiltration tactic using smaller units to sow confusion in UN lines during the early phase of their intervention is very effective.

[supple sandal]

Type 56 storytime 🤝

[autumn sorrel]

It work well against enemy that are inflexible in their defense

[autumn sorrel]

I know about that way before Type 56 ever talk about it

[supple sandal]

I mean he only like active posting in the recent years

[zealous vine]

What is the maxed out variant of the RDF-LT and HSTV-L

[supple sandal]

Is this about war thunder

[narrow rover]

What if: USS Macon joined WW2

Probably some Japanese tries to banzai into it

[supple sandal]

Then whatever that flying GREEN boat is doing is obvious very bad at his job

[narrow rover]

Perhaps he's trying to slice the hull open with his wing

I think it's a... rather weirdly drawn H8K Emily

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTr7XvVdHhA

[runic ermine]

This one

[spring briar]

Hard

[runic ermine]

Design wise or hard to make with smoke?

[spring briar]

The former complicates the latter

[lilac pollen]

How the fuck do you even destroy things, just fly low spray flame into the enemy and hope they don’t shoot your ass up?

[echo onyx]

I am the wrong person to turn to

[echo onyx]

also this was used early in the war

[lilac pollen]

Dumbass engineers…

[runic ermine]

Richie you are a very based frenchie

[zealous vine]

Tysm!!

Id like to ask as well, does anyone have a source referencing Proj. 24, 36 and the 40 variants?

Ive scoured around google, didn't bring up a single thing

So I assume it's referenced in a book, likely Friedman's

[runic ermine]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DPWwEFVjpn8/?igsh=MW9vZ3Q0Nm8zZnd3aw==

historycoolkids

During the Korean War, Lieutenant General Matthew Ridgway openly criticized racial segregation in the U.S. military, calling it “wholly inefficient” for combat effectiveness and “both un-American and un-Christian.”

At the time, the Army still maintained separate Black and white units, a legacy of longstanding racial policies. Ridgway a...

Likes

3780

Instagram

I really need Lego Korean War minifigs

[cinder escarp]

Ever heard of the soviet intervention in Afghanistan?

They pulled that off perfectly.

It didn't win them the greater war, but they pulled of the decapitation utterly perfectly.

[supple sandal]

New info gained

[autumn sorrel]

How does French Irish regiment and English regiment distinguished from each other seeing that both wore red?

[desert agate]

One was in front of you the other was behind you

[autumn sorrel]

I supposed the smoke of the battlefield would obscure the movement and make it really confusing?

[runic ermine]

During the War of 1813 both American and Canadian militia sometimes wore grey and brown. This once led to confusion but not in the way that you'd think

[brittle glacier]

Instead of shooting each other, they teamed up accidentally?

[runic ermine]

No, the British commander thought that the Americans forces were militia because they were wearing grey. However, he apparently later exclaimed, "They're regulars, by God!"

Because they were men of Winfield Scott's Brigade, who were wearing grey due to supply issues

[brittle glacier]

Oof

[runic ermine]

Basically the American forces present were a lot more professional than the British initially thought

[brittle glacier]

(probably not the same battle but you get the point)

[peak mango]

*enemy .. markings look like fishing trawlers, so yeah, drop burney stuff on fishing boats works great I'm sure. Just not against.. idk, warships.

[brittle glacier]

Most of Germany’s Maritime activity at the time was merchant raiding. Even against something like a Q-Ship a low flying Ju-88 laden with vitamin nape is going to be a horror show.

[chilly flower]

The tail-fitted flamethrower example wasn't intended for ground attack, rather self defense
https://youtu.be/LjBIzc4groM?t=388

The Dornier Do 17 that shows up in the video has quite a story behind it, involving the attempted use of such a weapon during the BoB:
https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/35945-luftwaffe-airborne-flamethrower

and some extra context from Luftarchiv
As early as the end of 1939, Lieutenant Stahl, technical officer at KG 51, proposed repelling attacking fighters with flamethrowers installed in the rear of bombers and long-range reconnaissance aircraft. The attacking fighter would fly into the cloud of soot and oil emitted by the flamethrower, causing its cockpit windows to suddenly become blinded. In February 1940, corresponding tests were carried out with He 111 and Ju 88 aircraft at the Tarnewitz test site. The device was then also used on a trial basis at the start of the Russian campaign by KG 51, but does not seem to have caught on with the troops. The “Gero 11” A and Bund C flamethrowers were used as attack weapons on the Fw 190 for dive attacks.

A downward-pointing installation for anti-infantry use did exist in form of the the "Gero" type, for ground attack versions of the Fw 190, but as far as I'm aware it was only experimental- incendiary bombs and napalm canisters are much more practical for achieving the same affect

[peak mango]

Idk. I think a q ship will be rough, engagement range on flame is in the low hundreds of feet, well within the no escape zone of any decent AA. If it hits the Q ship would be in rough shape for washdown but the odds aren't great.

[chilly flower]

There was no point in such a thing being used for anti-shipping (as mentioned, it was self-defense for the Ju 88 featured in the photo, rather than a primary weapon), it wasn't intended for that in the first place and didn't even work for the two roles that were envisioned for it

[woeful ember]

just found out kaga and tosa are actually classified as kaga class battleships

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/the-development-of-the-tosa-kaga-class-battleships.39464/

its in the hiraga archives

[timber linden]

The wife always win

[woeful ember]

most sites get them swapped saying kaga was tosa number 2

and happen to find this out from a wargaming streamer who streams world of warships saying kaga is the lead ship of her class and found out that its in the hiraga archives

also found out the reason they renamed the 4th amagi class battlecruiser in world of warship to ashitaka instead of either atago or takao was because atago and takao are already cruisers in game and irl

the japanese where going to build 4 amagi class battlecruisers one of which was techinally completed just with different plans and everyone knows her in game but the names where supposed to be amagi, akagi, atago, and takao

i do know georga is a iwoa class just with bigger and less guns than her sisters

just never built

in world of warships they have the same thing with georga but in japanese and that would be shikishima

she is a yamato class just with bigger and fewer guns

[runic ermine]

That's New Orleans

[brittle glacier]

Then I stand by my actions.

[brittle glacier]

Depends on how good the crews are and if they were trained for AA, they usually had some small caliber cannons, think like 3-4”, and some machine-guns all for U-Boats. Because let’s be honest, if you run across Scharnhorst or Gnaisenau in anything lighter armed and armored than them you might as well tuck your head between your cheeks and kiss your ass goodbye.

That said getting jumped by the Luftwaffe wasn’t a good thing either. Even if they weren’t conventional.

[peak mango]

Was meant to be a reply for a previous comment (darned mobile), but yeah, basically a mobile smokescreen which doesn't cover more than one angle.

[peak mango]

Still enough pewpew to disrupt a flame run, if they're on the ball. Like I said last time we talked about it, flame is just an impractical weapon against ships.

[brittle glacier]

aye fair.

Though I figured civilian vessels would be a different story, what with being on average more flammable with lesser damage control.

[peak mango]

Wood, rigging, etc burns. Metal doesn't, really. And almost everything even semi modern has firefighting onboard.

[brittle glacier]

Fair

[fickle junco]

https://youtu.be/eixbEdSezzA?si=hGj8RACFvif-GzRN

[cyan oriole]

which project 24 are you looking for

[cyan oriole]

why would Friedman have a book on Soviet ships

Friedman is an English-language sources guy, "the book" for this topic would be in russian and probably locked away somewhere, you will have to rely on Russian web sources generally

here's project 36

"By 1944, global experience in the development and operation of destroyers was already evident. The weaknesses of the Project 30 were already clearly visible. Industry management proposed an improved version, developed by TsKB-17, Project 36.

The Navy's Shipbuilding Directorate rejected this design, citing excessive displacement with virtually the same armament, and most likely because they did not want to halt the Project 30 destroyers in serial production, thereby precluding the need to restructure production.

Most importantly, the Navy's leadership, having seen its fill of the American Gearing-class destroyers, which carried six 127-mm dual-purpose guns and ten torpedo tubes, insisted on designing a larger and more heavily armed ship, a development of the pre-war Project 35, taking into account new technical capabilities."

Displacement: standard - 2105 tons, normal - 2355 tons, full - 2425 tons.
Dimensions: length - 114 m, width - 11.65 m, draft - 3.53 m, depth - 6.55 m.
Armament: 2x2 130-mm universal turrets, 4x2 - 40mm stabilized autocannon, 2x4 - 23 mm assault rifle, 2x4 - 533 mm TT; 50 large depth charges.
The power of the main mechanisms is 43,000 hp. Maximum speed 34 knots. The cruising range is 4000 miles at 14 knots and 3000 miles at 18 knots.

[cyan oriole]

the project 24 destroyer leader and the postwar project 40 are much easier to google

so you can find basic information online pretty easily

https://wiki.lesta.ru/ru/Лидер_эскадренных_миноносцев_проекта_24

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эскадренные_миноносцы_проекта_40

[cyan oriole]

necropinging this giga to ask what info is missing for italian guns? curious what kinda stuff goes into making these types of schematics

(and also because I'm curious how the italian and french guns would compare)

[eternal veldt]

Ashitaka was the original designated name for Atago

This was rejected seeing that Mount Ashitaka was "too small" for a vaunted capital ship of the IJN, and therefore Atago was used. What WG chose to do is secondary and in light of the existence of Takao/Atago as heavy cruisers, but not an invented name.

Georgia is in World of Warships as early as Alpha testing, under the name Scheme IV with 406mm Mark 6s instead of the 457s we have in game. The model itself is based on the preliminary model presented by the US Navy.

What might also intrigue you is the designation of the No.13 class - most sources are in consensus that would be the name of the class, but time after time you will see some of them calling them the No.8 class - This is because they are the thirteenth-sixteenth indigenous capital ships of the 8-8 fleet built by Japan under the new numeral system, but only the eighth to eleventh indigenous battlecruisers. Similarly, this is also why Japan is uniform on calling the pair of Kaga/Tosa as Kaga-class - Kaga is Battleship No.9, Tosa is No.10.

(Battlecruiser being very loose here, since Japan is very rapidly closing the gap between the fast battleship and battlecruiser with the Amagi and Kiis anyway.)

[supple sandal]

So before bird eye view map, do people just rely on hilltop view map to coordinate tactics

I remember that it us took quite a while for a dude to use hilltop and a bunch of triangles to make the first "modern map"

[peak mango]

Attempts at a perpendicular view goes back quite a ways, though. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps. That said, field directions are likely using other units or noted terrain features as reference points.

[subtle prawn]

Where did the confusion of the Kaga-class being referred to as the "Tosa-class" originate from anyways?

[terse mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0Uf6FIxoLA

[cyan oriole]

tosa was laid down first

so assumedly western contemporary sources reported it as the tosa-class

or something

[cyan oriole]

180mm gun penetration data from a russian forum

114mm at 11km seems low, the same guy said that Hipper gun could penetrate a 200mm plate from up to 15.5km

if these values are true and even if we assume this is against KC or something, the 180mm gun would be more in line with a 152mm gun

[spring briar]

Really depends on the exact projectile

Seems to me this is SAPCBC

And not APCBC

[narrow rover]

I recall Hippers shells having relatively low explosive mass

[cyan oriole]

they're like 2.2% filler or so

which is pretty normal

[cyan oriole]

that would explain it

[alpine onyx]

That's about accurate for a penetration where the shell breaks up. For an effective penetration maybe 13km

[cyan oriole]

speaking of sap shells, do penetration tables for the French 203mm gun exist?

assumedly the 30s AP shell is a non-starter, but one would think that something for the earlier shell was issued

[spring briar]

I have some numbers

[brittle glacier]

Is there a naval equivalent to a hollow point or APFSDS shell?

[supple sandal]

okay

why the fuck it is called stryker

and not striker

[brittle glacier]

It was adopted in the early 00’s by the US Army. So two possibilities:
it was the early 00’s and that was what they decided looked cooler.
Or in US Army tradition they named it after a historical general or some shit.

[cinder escarp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_S._Stryker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Stryker

They found two guys to make it seem more "legit"

[supple sandal]

fair nuff

[brittle glacier]

Ah man, I was about to say that…but yeah…so it was less traditional that I thought.

[supple sandal]

I mean MoH recipient is fine

[brittle glacier]

Tradition is usually a historical general…this is actually way cooler.

[cyan oriole]

it exists, but by the time it was introduced, the heavy naval gun was obsolete

not like there's anything to use it on

[brittle glacier]

Imagine putting a 16” SABOT round through the bow of a destroyer…

[cyan oriole]

or even better, an iraqi patrol vessel YEP

[brittle glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/mythrezia-ak-guy-brandon-herrera-white-claw-gif-11423188553586792889

[cyan oriole]

you can't say that and just leave 😭

[spring briar]

Im at work

[zealous vine]

Sorry for my ignorance, I merely fall back on Friedman for any literary source because I don't know much about the naval archive scene (and I haven't and can't invest much into my hobby)

[peak mango]

Isn't that just HE v AP? Hollowpoints make more damage by squishing and making a bigger wound channel at the expense of penetration (ie, HP), sabots sacrifice boom for penetration (velocity).

[brittle glacier]

I’m mostly talking about purely kinetic effect rounds, to cause lots spalling or cause excessive shock damage to the ship, even AP rounds on that scale usually have explosive filler.

Kinda a dumb idea, but it’s just something I came up with randomly.

[narrow rover]

Territorial draft for a peace treaty with Japan, discussed August 1947

How much of Okinawa could Japan (immediately) get back as well as the Kurile islands were quite often discussed, the 1947 treaty draft probably being "this is ideal from Japan's perspective"

As fate would have it, once the cold war reached Asia... Okinawa would suddenly become really important, and Russia would never negotiate with Japan sincerely.

To be fair in regards to the kuriles iirc something could have been negotiated in the 50s had the US not torpedoed the discussion... but they knew something the Japanese didn't... perhaps that the USSR would never hand the islands over

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcxzrLGEikg

[spring briar]

There is no such thing

Internal bulkheads would protect the rest of the ship against splinters

And you’ve essentially just made a pretty small hole

So you’d be worse off than even back in the late 1890’s/early 1900’s when some navies used actual solid shot AP

To make holes in the belt around the waterline

[narrow rover]

Unless you nail the ship deck to keel with an absolutely ginormous railway gun shell or something

The Gustav can probably break the keel if it scores a direct hit

[brittle glacier]

The idea would be to go through as many internal bulkheads as possible, splintering them as they went, but I see your point.

[brittle glacier]

Near misses with bombs can do a good bit of damage to internal systems, could you achieve similar effects by hitting it real hard with a giant bullet that dumps all its energy into the surrounding frame?

Particularly if you can’t penetrate, why not hammer the rivets and electronics loose?

[peak mango]

If it's hard enough to penetrate decks and bulkheads, decks aren't going to give it that much places to dissapate energy. It'll just punch a hole, and each compartment in the ship acts as spall protection.

Also just about everything internal is protected against shock, mainly to deal with nearby HE going off. Shock from a kinetic round isn't that much different.

[brittle glacier]

Having listened to a few historical books that wasn’t the impression I got, seemed like a lot of stuff wasn’t all that shock proof.

[peak mango]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_Vibration_Information_Analysis_Center fwiw.

[spring briar]

No.

[spring briar]

Bulkheads don’t splinter

They are made of tough and ductile steel

So you’d just get a hole

[peak mango]

Well maybe some spall.

[spring briar]

Maybe you hit something important but you’re unlikely to ever hit a mag
And if you do hit one how are you going to blow it up without a burster

[spring briar]

You’ll get some spall that will be confined to the compartment it penetrates

[peak mango]

Heh I'd start aiming at engine rooms if you had that much peen. But those are pretty low in the ship, even if it's some of the bigger hunks of metal you'd likely hit.

[peak mango]

Yup, each compartment acts as spall containment.

[spring briar]

Also afaik there have been some cruiser/battleship APDS/HEDS shells made for testing

I know in the French navy for the 155mm and 203mm guns
And in the Soviet navy for the 14” and 12” I think

[peak mango]

Heh speaking of 16" APDS ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3alzHF8TPM

[spring briar]

Scott munley

[peak mango]

Fly safe. 😛

It's a bunch of discarded 16" sections joined together... heh.

[spring briar]

Mhm

[brittle glacier]

If you get the range and angle right you could go in near vertical. Then you get the benefit of either boarding them or the shuttle the ship.

[spring briar]

[narrow rover]

I reckon it can still structurally compromise some smaller ships if it does hit the keel directly somehow

Like this thing was rated as being able to go through 30 meters of rock

[spring briar]

You’d achieve the same effect with long fuse HE shell

[spring briar]

Concrete is not rock

[narrow rover]

Yea but the original discussion was "can a solid shell do significant damage" and my answer is "yes if it's the size of a small house"

[spring briar]

Also it’s more like 7 meters

It’s not the size of a small house though

[brittle glacier]

How fast was a Gustav shell at the muzzle?

[spring briar]

Sure you’ll make an 800mm hole

[narrow rover]

7m of reinforced concrete iirc
I think it did go through 20+ meters of rock during its only wartime use

[spring briar]

720mps for AP
820mps for HE

[spring briar]

20 meters of ground and then trough a bunker roof at Sevastopol.

Which
Yeah no shit it’s basically a very inefficient AP bomb

[peak mango]

A keel isn't a single solid member - it's typically an area in a metal ship. Putting a hole in that area, smacking a stringer or two along the way, might weaken it slightly but isn't all that devastating.

Example - take a piece of paper. Fold it into a curve. use some tape to attach some toothpicks to hold it in shape. Measure the strenth of the arch. Now stick a pencil in the paper. Measure the strength again.

[brittle glacier]

I always thought the Keel was the central steel brace/girder at the bottom of the hull…

[peak mango]

Traditionally. But with skin and stringer construction, you don't need a single solid beam. The skin itself with it's stringers is the strong bottom member.

[spring briar]

The keel is simply the bottom of the ship

Its belly so to speak

[peak mango]

Okay here's an example of what it looks like in a modern ship

That bottom section (nicely painted yellow) is the 'keel section'.

built to be stiff and be able to support the ship. But it's not a solid member - It's skin and stringers and crossmembers welded together.

So, say a single 16" hole through it won't be reducing it's strength significantly.

[sullen canyon]

I feel like the New Jersey ship museum is most likely going to see more stuff in the coming months or so. Heck they recently did the Anniversary part for Azur Lane recently, so why not?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FceYzy5mPPk

<@&460646206851252224> Another one

[scenic spoke]

the US Army in 1918 for no reason

[brittle glacier]

plenty of reason.

[cyan oriole]

long live friedman

[cyan oriole]

sabot rounds mostly work through overpressure, not spalling

and that's useless in a massive warship where the majority of the ship is useless empty space

[cyan oriole]

don't forget about the one the iowas used

in the end I don't think they were ever deployed on the ships though

11" during the 60s, 11" and 13" during the 80s and 90s

[runic ermine]

A lot of reason actually

[scenic spoke]

“no!!! That’s a warcrime!” - Germany

[runic ermine]

https://x.com/amerpipedream/status/1975671148320059885?s=19

Americana Pipedream Apparel (@amerpipedream)

Operation Enduring Freedom began on this day in 2001.

X · Oct 7, 2025, 9:14 PM

[narrow rover]

Meanwhile Germany:

G A S

[lilac pollen]

FLAMENWEFER

[terse mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2uzCYPcE3I

[autumn sorrel]

First of all, it is a Remington 870, not Winchester 1897.
Secondly, it was first intended for second line duty but logistic problems and then trench assault tactic called for shotgun in front line service.

[white rose]

Why was the rangefinder on the fore-most main battery on the USS Missouri removed at some point in her modernization?

[brittle cargo]

Most likely seen as excess weight.

[zealous vine]

https://youtube.com/shorts/gpcK9olu23c?si=GCeM96es4zFYQIFP I've never seen footage of Richelieu

[zealous vine]

Some ships had this practice

Tirpitz as well; water just broke them

[twilit geyser]

Advances in fire control and radar made the Mk53 rangefinders on turret #1 redundant. The Mk52 rangefinders were still seen as necessary on turrets #2 and #3.

As others have also noted, turret #1 also sits low at the hull, splashes from the water negated their use, because of this, they were quite literally deadweight.

All ships had them removed in the ~'50s.

[brittle glacier]

Here’s a thought, if a competent shipbuilding navy were to build a BB today, what do you think it would look like?
I’m leaning towards a Ford-sized behemoth that’s 50% VLS cells on the top deck with multi-barreled 5” turrets, 16-20” triple turrets with RAPs, GAU-13 CIWS mounts using skyranger munitions all tied into a modern fire control system.

[desert agate]

A competent navy wouldn’t build one

[brittle glacier]

A competent navy would build enough arsenal ships to sink Australia. But it’s only a thought experiment.

[zealous vine]

Im completely with deedle, but let's screw around a bit

[cyan oriole]

you don't need big guns

there is no point

I would think the main gun armament would be some sort of howitzer-type contraption

since the only point of a battleship is for fire support

it's not like you can ever bring your main guns to bear on an enemy surface ship in the year of 2025

[zealous vine]

The closest experimental tech we've gotten to some viable gun platform exceeding missiles are SLRCs, which have been cancelled in 2022

[brittle glacier]

The odds of the US making even an Arsenal ship are low, so I don’t expect a battleship to ever happen, but it’s a kickass idea.

[cyan oriole]

yeah and those were superimpractical

all that guidance just for a tiny payoff

and it's not even like it would have a good hit rate

[zealous vine]

Let's ditch economics and triple the naval budget

[cyan oriole]

no, a competent navy would not waste that much money

the best option is for a large number of multi-role platforms

it's better to distribute firepower in the modern age

both for survivability and versatility

oh and a massive ship barely fits into most drydocks

so another logistical nightmare

[brittle glacier]

Rocket Assisted Projectiles, a lot of space for extra propellant, but in a 16+ inch shell you’ve got a lot of space, especially with modern explosives. Engaging enemy ships ain’t in the cards, but that’s not really the point is it, and if you really want to extend range you can use sub caliber DS shells as well.

[zealous vine]

Johan isn't arguing doctrine and the larger picture in the first place

[brittle glacier]

Yes.

[cyan oriole]

the issue is that dispersion effects are the bottleneck for accuracy

you will never hit the enemy ships

especially with a high velocity projectile (which is affected more by long range dispersion effects)

[brittle glacier]

APKWS proves just how compact a guidance system can get, especially compared to 70mm versus like, 406+

[cyan oriole]

in the end it's moot, any battleship is just a big target, it's like a carrier except without any of the offensive capabilities or utility of a carrier

in fact even more vulnerable than a carrier, since the carrier contributes to its own submarine screen and to its own air defense

[cyan oriole]

guidance systems are not perfect, you are still looking at a very inefficient platform

the only reason for a battleship is shore bombardment for landing operations

[brittle glacier]

Yes, but a battleship can reliably provide coastal fire support in a much more restrictive environment than a carrier, or even a Tico or Burke.

[cyan oriole]

reliably? not at all

the point is that the maximum payoff of the battleship is much higher for a much lower cost

[brittle glacier]

*more reliably

[cyan oriole]

less reliably

carrier can just send out aircraft from outside of the range of most enemy defenses

battleship will be under threat the entire time

[brittle glacier]

Weather, contested airspace, enemy IAD, etc. A wing of aircraft can face a lot more ground fire with far less defensive measures than a modern battleship.

[cyan oriole]

the modern battleship is also way more expensive, and it would cut into the budget for escort ships

the carrier is not limited to this role alone

you would need to commit a carrier anyways probably

indispensable for anti-submarine operations

so now the question is what is the point

[brittle glacier]

The Pacific, mostly.

[cyan oriole]

just invest in rockets fired from small craft

or maybe a bunch of ships with a large howitzer each

less of a floating target

[brittle glacier]

Hear me out: A refitted Tico

[cyan oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/city-the-animation-wako-izumi-city-wako-keiichi-arawi-gif-6383524622833642270

[brittle glacier]

“THEY WILL NEVER PENETRATE OUR COASTAL BUNKER!!!”
The Assault-Tico just off shore:

https://tenor.com/view/skull-lau-laughing-laughing-skull-gif-25226833

Also: imagine how many bomblets you could fit in a 600mm mortar shell.

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, an arsenal ship filled with VLS isn't a bad idea. I would dispel with the big guns but multiple light weight Ota Melara 5 inch would work.

[desert agate]

It is a bad idea because a ship solely armed with VLS is not versatile at all

At that point you have a ship that can do 1 job and nothing else

Need an ASW screen? No chance
Radar picket? Why bother?

[autumn sorrel]

Or, just put multiple M269 Launcher-Loader Module from M270 on it. Make it a swing out contraption in weather proof container.

[desert agate]

Peacekeeping?
Regional flag showing?
Blockade enforcement?
Policing?

None of these jobs are viable

[autumn sorrel]

Just use Burke

[autumn sorrel]

Easy, spam more Burke.

[desert agate]

Yeah and for the price of 1 arsenal ship you can probably build 2-3 more Burkes

[autumn sorrel]

Everything can be solve by using more Burke and sling SM-6 at it.

All joke aside, Arsenal ship might be come in handy if you really need to have that many VLS packed on one platform.

[desert agate]

There is actually a very nice goldilocks zone where having too much VLS actually becomes a detriment to your capability

[brittle glacier]

arms ASROC

[desert agate]

The RAN is currently exploring the idea of uncrewed or low crewed arsenal ships and the only reason they're exploring the option is because they have no other choice thanks to manpower requirements

In wartime generally you have no manpower issues

[desert agate]

Ikara was better

[brittle glacier]

Let the fat old man die already.

[autumn sorrel]

No

[autumn sorrel]

So spam more Mogami instead?

[desert agate]

Yes that's why we're buying 11 of them

With the option of more

[brittle glacier]

Build a modern hull, stop bolting shit onto it. I think we’ve reached the limit and the old bastard needs to be laid to rest.

[desert agate]

I've yet to see a good reason to stop upgrading Burkes that doesn't boil down to aesthetic

[brittle glacier]

Efficiency.

[desert agate]

Keep in mind that the first DDG(X) is planned to be laid down next decade

[brittle glacier]

Build a modern hull, THEN start bolting shit onto it.

[desert agate]

What is innefficient about the Burke platform presently

Is the flight III currently struggling to perform its designed peacetime and wartime roles?

[autumn sorrel]

I think it is because they are overkill for what mission targets currently is

[brittle glacier]

No

It’s because a purpose built hull is better than a modified one.

[desert agate]

The Burke is not overkill for a modern peer or neer peer conflict in the Indo Pacific

[autumn sorrel]

Like, they are great for dealing with near peers and peers opponent like China but way too overkill for Houthi

[brittle glacier]

Agreed.

No

[desert agate]

Describe what part of the Burke isn't purpose built for its role?

[autumn sorrel]

I know, I specifically talk about the Red Sea situation.

[brittle glacier]

The amount of rebalancing and shit they’ve had to do with how too heavy the fucker is.

[brittle glacier]

*top heavy

[autumn sorrel]

Platform like FREMM and Mogami is much more suited for anti piracy and protecting shipping lane.

[desert agate]

The American ships aren't even the heaviest Burkes

[autumn sorrel]

It still stable enough for rough sea

[desert agate]

The Sejong the Great class is sitting at 12'000t full load

The Atago class hits 10'000t

The hulls clearly have plenty of growing room

[autumn sorrel]

USN isn't China. They have decades of shipbuilding and sea keeping experience, there now way they design an upgrades of Burke that have stability issues.

[desert agate]

Especially since a flight III hull only comes in at 9'500t

[brittle glacier]

It was also originally a CGN

A really fucking good CGN

[autumn sorrel]

Classification is really dumb in USN.

[brittle glacier]

But still a CGN

[brittle glacier]

The Ticos were originally DDGs

[desert agate]

I didn't realise the Burke was nuclear powered

That must be news to most of the world

[brittle glacier]

My bad, CG

[autumn sorrel]

Imagine they decide to troll the Russian and just make Burke Nuclear powered from the start.

[brittle glacier]

Point still stands.

Brain wanted to stamp on the N…

[desert agate]

The Burke is not a cruiser
It doesn't do the job of a cruiser
The only reason people call it a cruiser is because it's bigger than most other DDGs

Cruiser and Destroyer denote roles and capability, not size

[brittle glacier]

CURSE YOU RICKOVER YOU BASTARD!!!impotent fist shaking

[desert agate]

Keep in mind that the role of guided missile cruiser basically doesn't exist anymore

[brittle glacier]

Its original classification and purpose was as a CG. Meanwhile our current CG which was originally a DDG packs twice the firepower.

[desert agate]

Almost like they changed it for a reason huh

[brittle glacier]

That said we could easily, using modern purpose built technology, build a much smaller, more agile hulls with better defences and lower crew requirements.

[autumn sorrel]

So more Frigate?

[brittle glacier]

More an actual destroyer.

Imagine if our destroyer fleet had way more go juice.

The Burke is already a dragster, especially at that size.

[desert agate]

So basically what every Western navy is currently doing

[brittle glacier]

Yes, but with the LockMart seal of doing it better.

[desert agate]

Again the Burke replacement is already picked and is set to be laid down next decade

[autumn sorrel]

You are describing the mission profile of a ww2 and early Cold War Destroyer, which is currently of Frigate.

[desert agate]

Ah yes Lockheed Martin ships of course

[autumn sorrel]

You want over-budgeted and slow-delivered platforms?

[brittle glacier]

I use LockMart as a general term for the US MIC.

[desert agate]

Well maybe don’t do that

[brittle glacier]

Fair

[desert agate]

Fleets buy the ships they need for the jobs they need
The USN needs bigger ships and it needs bigger crews, unfortunately that’s a side effect of being the world police

[brittle glacier]

The US Destroyer is meant to go fast and beat ass.

[desert agate]

Looking at the other tier 1 destroyers of the world, you’re generally seeing smaller ships with smaller armaments, partly for cost and partly because they don’t see a need to sail around the world constantly

[brittle glacier]

Then call em what they are: Cruisers.

[desert agate]

Destroyers and cruisers are 2 very different roles

And the cruiser role basically doesn’t exist anymore

A cruiser isn’t just a ship that can sail far anymore, this isn’t the 17th century

[brittle glacier]

Cruisers were invented for power projection, to go fast and go long.

[desert agate]

It’s actually a defined role in a naval task group

[desert agate]

The role of the cruiser, as with most other surface combatants has been superseded by the multi role platforms we call DDGs

[brittle glacier]

There’s thirty different roles and meanings for every classification of ship out there save for Battleships and dreadnoughts.

[desert agate]

A cruiser, does not act as a radar picket
It should not be used for ASW screening
Nor is it well suited to the various peacetime flag showing and policing roles that are expected of a global blue water fleet

A DDG, can be a radar picket
It can do ASW screening
It is suited to peacetime roles

These are doctrinal terms which are defined

They're not just based on vibes

[brittle glacier]

Cruisers were up until recently, mainline ships. They had a bunch of roles and towards the end were mostly escorts.
Destroyers were escorts as well, just fuckin’ tiny. They had a wide array of roles and capabilities, but they were near universally: escorts.

[desert agate]

Naval planners in the last century realised that there was no point in having 4 different surface combatants all specialised for different roles
It was cheaper, more efficient and produced better battlefield performance to simply have 1 ship do as many roles as you can squeeze into it
Hence the modern DDG
A ship which can

Hunt submarines
Be a radar picket
Perform policing
Show the flag
Merchant escort

But it can also do traditional capital ship roles

Carrier group escort
High intensity air warfare
Fight in a battle line
Be a flag ship in a task group

The modern DDG is a ship that can do everything
Why would naval planners bother having 2 separate ship types to do a job that 1 hull can do?

You made the argument earlier that you want more efficient ships with lower crew requirements
Well the Burke is a ship that uses modern technologies to allow it to perform so many roles without any modification

These ships are highly efficient combatants

Burkes do not just do cruiser jobs
They're more than just cruisers, they're highly versatile platforms that can do a variety of tasks both in and out of the battle line
Cruisers are generally stuck in the battle line, they don't get detached too much because their capabilities are specialised towards those battle line roles

And yes there is still space for the Frigate in the modern fleet but it isn't nearly as specialised as it was last century

[brittle glacier]

A parallel could be drawn to the MBT concept.
A general purpose Swiss Army knife capable of doing everything any of its previous counterparts could to do one extent or another…yet we do not call an Abrams a Light Tank. Which is essentially what is happening with the Burke. And to my knowledge the Burke is pretty unique in its array of capabilities.

[desert agate]

No we don't because it evolved from medium tanks

Do you have an actual argument for why the Burke should be a cruiser or just vibes?

[brittle glacier]

Technically the concept evolved from the Centurion which I believe was classified as an Infantry Tank originally, or a Cruiser tank…

[brittle glacier]

No. I’m just a Tico fanboy.

[desert agate]

You seem to have an issue with doctrinal designation because Centurion wasn't an infantry tank it was a cruiser and notably the cruiser tank role is almost entirely analagous to the American medium tank role

[remote monolith]

centurions are military commanders though

and lucrative positions at that

[desert agate]

Go back to Rome Caligae boy

[brittle glacier]

The British Tank Designation System in WW2 was fucking weird.

[desert agate]

It was more based on role than weight class

[brittle glacier]

So was the US system. Light Tanks were for scouting, thus they were small and nimble. Mediums were the standard and thus middle of the road and fucking everywhere. Heavies were for assaulting mostly static heavy defensive formations and thus, were heavy as fuck. Assault Guns were for fortifications. Super Heavies were for trying to figure out how to invade Japan…initially Germany.

Infantry Tanks were for Infantry support.
Cruiser tanks were for seemingly everything else.

[peak mango]

Well, first - we need something that makes missiles and bombs obsolete necessitating big hunks of metal with or without explosives to have effects. So the first thing is some really REALLY good point defense. Say, a combination of HELs, microwave weapons, perhaps ESD/plasma batteries, etc, then a deep magazine of cheap kinetic interceptors. Basically you have to shift the paradigm such that if it's in line of sight, it gets zapped, so only big hunks of metal can survive. Second to that, you'd want some ASW/sub protection if your defense envelope can only hit above the surface.

Then, well, you can dispense with the a large VLS in favor of big guns with RAPs, some rapidfire 5"ers (or whatever the minimum size is for a shell not to get bugzapped), some integral spotter drones.. maybe a couple of VLS too.

But that's the only reason why guns could come back - because other means became ineffective.

[brittle glacier]

Fair.

[peak mango]

IMHO - cruisers are capable of independent steaming and ops, with DDs tend to be fleet vessels/escorts first.

[brittle glacier]

That’s what I’m saying! Or at least trying to…

[peak mango]

That said, with modern size growth, DDGs stepped into the roles CGs were doing.

[twilit plume]

https://youtu.be/eixbEdSezzA?si=xw16iYRL_A_1bQil

[peak mango]

And ... amusingly enough, we'll soon have USVs taking on the dedicated escort roles...

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...

[brittle glacier]

So…Guided Missile Heavy Cruisers?

[peak mango]

Again, 'cruising' is a role exemplified by independent action capabilities. Doesn't matter the ship you stick into that role if it can accomplish the job. What's the difference between sticking a couple of letters in the class designator?

[brittle glacier]

I meant making a bigger Tico.

More everything, act as a mainstay fleet asset in place of an LHD or similar.

[peak mango]

For what operational reason? Office space? Mag depth?

[brittle glacier]

Access to greater firepower with more onboard munitions, even act as a more capable drone carrier. Not to mention a greater concentration of point defences to make up for a lack of airborne interception capacity.

[peak mango]

And amusingly, Ticos were originally considered DDGs prior to the 1975 reclassifications...

[brittle glacier]

Yup

And Burkes were the other way ‘round.

So we went up in CG capability but down in DDG capability.

[peak mango]

Cost of standing up a new design isn't pretty, tbh. Though it's likely needed soon.

But it'd be nothing like a Tico.

[brittle glacier]

It’s that or stick two arsenal ships in each group, one with SAMs the other either surface focused or with a mix.

[brittle glacier]

Oh for sure.

I was thinking more in layout.

[peak mango]

Mag depth isn't the issue. Shoot, stick a hundred VLS cells on a barge and tow it behind a ship .. (kidding, don't)

[brittle glacier]

One 5” mount on either end(though I’d give em dual mounts or greater), shitloads of VLS cells, drone hangars, sensors, point defenses, etc between.

[brittle glacier]

Agreed, bad idea.

[brittle glacier]

The great part about modern tech is with autoloaders and radar tech(Aegis) you could effectively have a 5” flak machinegun for drones and missiles.

[brittle glacier]

*slower/dumber missiles

Cheaper than throwing fistfuls of SM-6s at everything that doesn’t crawl, swim or have RVs

[peak mango]

Okay so .. here's what needs to happen for a 'do it all' type ship capable of independent steaming (in addition to the stuff already onboard a modern vessel)

1. power. Microwave weapons, lasers, moar radars, etc. Power and cooling reqs are going to go way up.

2. boat handling capabilities. USVs are the new torpedo boat/escort. Needs dedicated handling capabilities for that.

3. microwave, lasers, CROWs centric self defenses

4. extra command/control capabilities to handle and synthesize it all. CICs gonna get a lot bigger / AI / etc...

None of that is going to fit into a Tico.

Mogami's CIC

[brittle glacier]

I only use Tico as an example because it’s the only Cruiser we have in service at the moment. Obviously it’d be bigger.

[peak mango]

Zumwalt's ...

[brittle glacier]

The Zumwalt could have been so cool…

[peak mango]

Zumwalt's just about the size of a Tico.

[brittle glacier]

I tend to forget the Zumwalt exists, just like the Navy wishes it could.

[peak mango]

Too early for it's time.

[brittle glacier]

Probably gonna be a few decades before we even consider looking into something similar. Which is a shame because a Stealth(did they ever go through with that?) Destroyer with advanced firepower would be just what the modern battlefield needs.

At sea at least

[peak mango]

Oh I'm somewhat kidding about a barge with VLS, but not really. Park a couple dozen typhons on a roro ocean rated barge ...

[brittle glacier]

Could try what the Vietnamese are doing. Remote floating naval platforms, not sure on the specifics of those, but make em real heavy on the boom boom and spread em around like oil rigs.

[peak mango]

I mean it's partway there. Too much emphasis on the AGS, not enough on microwaves and CROWs and deep short range intercept magazine.

Basically was meant to power things that weren't fully fleshed out or designed yet.

[brittle glacier]

Yeah

[peak mango]

And efficient USV launch/recovery/maintenance while underway wasn't on their radar.

Which requires some dedicated designs, really.

[brittle glacier]

We should start treating short range defense systems like they did 5” turrets for the Iowa: Armored and with direct access to interior onboard magazines.

[peak mango]

Ehhhh slap a fairing on a CROWS

[brittle glacier]

Hear me out: M134 CROWS, with ammo feed leading into the ship’s central magazine. Also replace the Vulcan on the Phalanx with the GAU-13 and do the same, lower rate of fire, more accurate radar, and wider range of ammunition capabilities, including DU AP rounds and proxy fused shells as seen in projects like SkyRanger.

Also lasers, lots and lots of lasers.

Well DE in general.

But Disco-Cruiser sounds like a blast.

[peak mango]

idk about central mag. I'm okay with extended belts for under deck storage though.

Modernized otto with better ammo handling would be nice as a primary gun though.

[brittle glacier]

One gigantic fuck off bin of high pressure 7.62 rounds to feed the entire CROWS system throughout the ship.

[brittle glacier]

Otto?

I was thinking take the Mk. 110 mount, fully automate the system the slap another gun or two in it.

Not the 110

THATS for cutters and shit

Mark 45

Specifically the L62s

[peak mango]

Sounds like a horrible idea damage control wise.

[brittle glacier]

Fair.

[peak mango]

If you can't hit it with one, you likely aren't hitting it with two rounds.

[brittle glacier]

More about increased volume of fire. Think of what it could do to drone swarms and even aircraft, for super cheap too, assuming we KISS, back in WW2 your average 5” proxy shell cost 53$ by the end of the war(before inflation)

[peak mango]

Also otto because 120 rpm > 20 rpm

[brittle glacier]

I’m not familiar with the system.

[peak mango]

76mm oto melara

It's what's on the frem

[brittle glacier]

Also that 20rpm is based on the internal magazine of the Mk. 45 mount.

[peak mango]

and formerly the OHPs

Heh it's pretty ubqitious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_76_mm

[brittle glacier]

With some tuning and an additional gun you could quadruple(or more) the rate of fire, and have it double as a rapid fire sea to shore battery, really ruin some fucker’s day.

[peak mango]

more rotational mass isn't your friend when talking about tracking fast moving targets.

[brittle glacier]

Hmmm…super-firing mounts?

[peak mango]

Maybe fore and aft. Like I said, if you can't hit it with a first shot, a second shot at the same aimpoint isn't going to help that much.

[brittle glacier]

Or replace the bearings with mag lev?

[peak mango]

Rotational mass.

[brittle glacier]

Aye fair.

[brittle glacier]

When you’re trying to shred drone swarms and the like, the more you can blast from afar the less you have to deal with up close.

[peak mango]

I wouldn't go too heavy into them, though. We're talking a secondary air defense being it's primary role, followed by the (very rare) close in shore support. Which means you've already established marine dominance and likely air dominance.

[brittle glacier]

Fair

[peak mango]

Swarm defense - 1) EM weapons. 2) lasers. 3) Airburst arty at a couple of KM tops.

Again, 76 airburst has more shots on goal and if you're not at the right aimpoint, doesn't matter how big the explosion is or how much lead you throw up.

[brittle glacier]

Fair.

Depends on if you want to use timed or proxy. First round in busts some up, second round in goes deeper into the swarm and detonates.

[peak mango]

'swarm' is a misnomer. Target densities likely aren't THAT high.

And .. round selections are well past timed/proxy/etc these days.

[brittle glacier]

Im not too familiar with modern fusing.

[brittle glacier]

My brain is stuck on the Chinese drone show BS.

But yeah, you right.

[peak mango]

Take a look at the page for the oto I linked. Multi mode programmable (both prox+timer), course corrected shell (DART), INS+GPS with terminal guidance (VULCANO) ...

[brittle glacier]

Ooo

[peak mango]

Maybe at launch, but any reasonable swarm guidance is going to have a decent amount of separation. That said, those are also tiny, something with, say a RPG head is going to be much bigger (and that's barely for anti tank) and something with anti shipping will be bigger still.

[brittle glacier]

Why do I wanna put this on a PT Boat sized USV with Hydra or Zuni Rocket Pods bolted on…

[peak mango]

Going too small might get you stabilization issues in heavier sea states.

[brittle glacier]

What size would you recommend? Also: We need to use Zunis more.

[peak mango]

Minimum? Something like the MDUSV sized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Hunter , vs the RIB/PT boat sized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet-class_unmanned_surface_vessel

[peak mango]

Fleet sized can handle a 70mm pod no problem, though. Esp with APKWS.

[brittle glacier]

They managed to fit 37mm autocannons on the old Torpedo Boats.

Those were plywood.

[brittle glacier]

I mean if it can handle a Hydra it can handle a Zuni, Zuni is 127mm Hydra is 70, both can be fit on most aircraft.

[peak mango]

Bruh. 100kg worth of gun vs 10000kg worth of gun.

[brittle glacier]

Ah.

Despite its age, “The Final Countdown” still kicks ass.

[brittle glacier]

Anyone know where one might find a comprehensive list of active US navy ships circa 1941/42?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5TGPYm-IA

[brittle glacier]

Step 1: Get invaded by two factions that nominally despise each other.
Step 2: Have any value at all.
Step 3: Profit.

[runic ermine]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPkBqFsDP6k/?igsh=MWk5amExMnZ5MGR6Zw==

royalaviationmuseumofwc

The CF-100 Canuck — the only Canadian-designed jet fighter ever mass-produced. 🇨🇦

A Cold War icon, right here at the Royal Aviation Museum.

#RAMWC #Aviation #CF100Canuck #aircraft #exploremb

Likes

112

Instagram

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/airandspace/status/1975994355081973812

National Air and Space Museum (@airandspace)

In October 1940, the Vought XF4U-1 Corsair prototype made history as the first single-engine U.S. fighter to fly faster than 400 mph. This F4U-1D (a later production variant) is currently on display at our Udvar-Hazy Center: s.si.edu/3Wgam1v

**💬 1 🔁 16 ❤️ 81 👁️ 4.2K **

FxTwitter · Oct 8, 2025, 6:39 PM

[narrow rover]

TIL: Nelson once fought a polar bear and supposedly won

[brittle glacier]

I mean, if he lost, we wouldn’t have heard about it…or him…

[lilac pollen]

Survive a bear but couldn’t survive a naval battle

[autumn sorrel]

Better than his opponent, basically neutered for the rest of the century.

[warm ferry]

👍 came to check if its been posted

[peak mango]

Naval register, I'd suppose. Might not be in the data format you're looking for, though.

[brittle glacier]

Woooo…

[peak mango]

gl. They /still/ haven't digitized everything lol.

[brittle glacier]

Eugh

So long as it’s legible and navigable it shouldn’t be too much of an issue, right?

[peak mango]

https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Resources/Naval-Vessel-Register/

[narrow rover]

Today I learned
Hitlers super train the Breitspurbahn would have been towed by
Get this
A 4-12-12-4 + 10-10 + 10-10 + 4-12-12-4 steam locomotive

The largest production locomotive is just 4-8-8-4

As stupid as this idea was I sort of wish someone at least picked up the concept.
It's technically feasible to send a train from the Americas to Eurasia...
Would have been pretty difficult during the cold war though...

[peak mango]

maybe over the bering gap

[narrow rover]

Well yea
There's also a Japan-Korea undersea tunnel concept

So imagine riding this thing all the way from New York to Tokyo

[peak mango]

Doesn't follow a great circle, DENIED...

kidding.

Also.. cold war 2.0

[narrow rover]

You probably will never get a global railroad until somehow the earth is united

[peak mango]

That's when the aliens come lol.

[narrow rover]

Just too many countries need to work together to make something like this possible

[supple sandal]

https://x.com/EurasiaNaval/status/1975999642212209149

Eurasia Naval Insight (@EurasiaNaval)

PLAAF training lecture for new pilots:

Trainer: Why do you engage in close dogfights?
Cadet: Because I have superior maneuverability!
Trainer: Wrong, because you are really dumb.

X · Oct 8, 2025, 7:00 PM

[scenic spoke]

gah dahm south dakotas are short

(ignore the montana class they’re just chillin)

[zealous vine]

Treaty moment

[brittle glacier]

Designed to fit in naval treaties and the Panama.

Barely fit both

Wasn’t there a prototype for a 20” naval cannon at some point?

[remote monolith]

really, again?

[brittle glacier]

?

[remote monolith]

another scamme

[brittle glacier]

Ah

The woes of digital security.

[autumn sorrel]

Well, with the newest discord info leaks, again, a lot of people are losing their acc and have bot take over

[peak mango]

Gotta love hull speed.

[narrow burrow]

I have a story to tell.

So the Royal Navy had official ship badges for each ship. And these came in 3 sizes. 1 large badge was made and hung on the wall in the bridge. These are called Bridge or Screen badges. Smaller ones are Wardroom Badges, and even smaller are mess badges. Sailors could pay or even cast their own mess badges.

Now here is the HMS Glowworms Screen Badge

Only one screen badge gets made per ship because they are big and stuff right

Well I just bought this