history

[viscid estuary]

[glacial perch]

If nothing else i think the latter deserves a line referencing it in game

Don’t you agree?

[manic latch]

No

It's not her landing the plane

It's the pilot

[viscid estuary]

Yeah, could be fun

[glacial perch]

Fair. But this is AL not irl. But yeah those are some damn good pilots to be able to do a carrier landing during a typhoon

[viscid estuary]

Could also throw it in some sort of “I’m gonna beat you no matter what the conditions are because I’m Her” type line

like her introduction or something

“No wind or wave can stop me” idk

[glacial perch]

I can see that but as far as her personality goes I kinda think I prefer a sorta “sleeping giant” type for her if that makes sense

[viscid estuary]

well I think odds are reasonably good she’ll be set up as the leader of the Eagle Union

So I feel like more of a “competent badass” is more probable

Chill sleeping giant could be good also

Sort of our counterpart to Shinano, but I personally don’t feel that’s necessary

[glacial perch]

yeah. I forget where I saw it but I’m thinking she’d be kinda like the way the battlestar galactica’s personality is described. She’s powerful and knows it. I guess I could describe it as sorta sheepdog ish if that makes any sense

[viscid estuary]

I really need to watch BSG

But that’s another discussion

[glacial perch]

Do you think the sheepdog mentality thing is an apt way to describe galactica?

I think it fits

I think I like that sorta mentality for midway

[runic ermine]

I met a veteran of the merchant navy yesterday

[glacial perch]

Cool

[steel rapids]

Ah what a great day

[supple sandal]

Vietnamese military command planning their operation and victories close together so everyone can get back to back holiday in the future

[steel rapids]

We Vietnamese called that 300 IQ move

[runic ermine]

Tbh that's smart

[wintry haven]

Sorry for late reply you what do you mean on changes nothing?

[ivory ridge]

it's not world of warships, those 3mm dont make a difference

just like anything from 150 to 155 is a 6in gun and both 406 and 410 are called 16in

[signal wave]

Okay uh history nerd people

Where is the bridge on the USS Langley (CV-1)?

[autumn sorrel]

Up front, near the bow

[signal wave]

thx

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQayrLxI-qo

[runic ermine]

Mussolini was killed today btw

[manic latch]

It was me Barry

I killed him

[ivory ridge]

[steel rapids]

You did what!??

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1784707697083867569

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1983, 3,000 friends and family of the crew of USS Enterpise waited on a pier in the rain for the carrier to return from an 8 month cruise only to see it get stuck in the mud 1,000 yards out. The crew lined the port side in an effort shift weight and dislodge the carrier.

Twitter · Apr 28, 2024, 10:14 PM

[willow jungle]

Battle of Surigao Strait. HMAS Shropshire, USS Boise, and USS Phoenix are the Right Flank Cruisers.

[desert agate]

[ivory ridge]

https://fxtwitter.com/TrueSlazac/status/1740392885739274704?t=LuTsxnQGB0oUbrZIc9ft7g&s=19

https://fxtwitter.com/TrueSlazac/status/1740447323665387916?t=HaUwhy0P9s6bPCwhRSitKg&s=19

💀

[steel rapids]

Just why

[ivory ridge]

Globalism

i thought I've eaten there for a second but i got confused with the McD in front of the Duomo

[steel rapids]

Lol

[supple sandal]

People calling April 11th 1954 statically the most boring day

Me knowing damn well millions of people around the world still shooting at each other because it is the cold war and the violence de-colonization era

[steel rapids]

The French in Dien Bien Phu be like

[supple sandal]

Everyone in Dien Bien Phu be like

[steel rapids]

Pain

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1784982616686366842

[supple sandal]

The helis are ARVN so into the sea they go

[runic ermine]

I need to eat there one day

[steel rapids]

Yup dump it all

Man Giang would be happy seeing this

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1785031811015328158

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1963, USS Coral Sea (CVA-43) entered Sydney to participate in events marking the 21st anniversary of the Battle of Coral Sea for which she was named. Over 100,000 Australians took advantage of the opportunity to tour the Midway-class carrier while she was in port.

Twitter · Apr 29, 2024, 7:42 PM

[gloomy rune]

Me being italian and not knowing about this

[runic ermine]

https://youtu.be/u1l0QRmajXM?si=I0UJyWgTVidNwrbE

[steel rapids]

Man my favorite channel

He's the best

[supple sandal]

The 3d model left much to desire tho

[steel rapids]

Yeah this guy and yarnhub are my favorite

[pure zephyr]

How well could Australia defend against a imperial Japanese invasion?

[steel rapids]

Hm

[grave ravine]

Imperial Japan didn't really have the capability to mount too much of an invasion, they were seriously limited in their ability to transport and land forces

[steel rapids]

Alr here's my opinion i am not sure if the Japanese back in the time has the capacity to attack Australia but if they do it will be kinda tough since the Aussie are very hard to crack, and by the time they still attack Australia, the US would sent troops and ships to counter the Japanese

So it's impossible to take over Australia due to the US could send reinforcements and counter attack

[glass trail]

for one, japan was very close to taking port moresby, which wouldve allowed them to launch air strikes on australia's mainland freely

it was pretty lucky for us to encounter them right before they were able to launch an assault on port moresby and arguably it was one of the battles that gave us an advantage in the war

[eternal veldt]

Conquering Port Moresby is one thing

Invading Australia is another, especially given the logistics and terrain of Australia

[glass trail]

its hard to tell what wouldve happened

i doubt japan would have held onto port moresby if coral sea hadnt happened seeing as nimitz was already preparing to defend it

[desert agate]

The important question to ask is how well could Japan actually invade Australia

[desert agate]

Japan already had launched attacks on the mainland, Darwin, Broome and a dozen other places in the Far North were all bombed repeatedly

[desert agate]

Realistically if Coral Sea hadn’t halted the Japanese fleet then Moresby would have fallen
It had a very small defending garrison consisting of 2 poorly trained and equipped militia battalions, the 39th and 53rd and while the 39th would later distinguish itself on the Kokoda track, the unit was in no position to effectively defend Moresby and the 53rd can be discounted as an effective fighting force in its entirety as it had poor leaders and even poorer morale

By the time of Coral Sea the 7th division was still in training in Northern Queensland primarily due to fears of a potential landing near Townsville but also to acclimatise the unit to tropical conditions after just returning from North Africa

The 7th was regardless in no position to redeploy onto New Guinea and even if it was if Moresby fell there was not a single port South of the Owen Stanley Range with the facilities to unload a division and its equipment

Hell there was barely another port other than Moresby on the island with the possible exception of Milne Bay which had no facilities or even a substantial permanent population but it at least was deep enough to allow troop ships to enter

The only other substantial unit on Papua, the Papuan Infantry Battalion which consisted mostly of native Papuans under Australian command was inland laying preparations for a guerrilla campaign and patrolling the Northern Coastline

There were some scattered AIF personnel including survivors of Rabaul distributed among the two AMF battalions but the 53rd utilised their Rabaul veterans and AIF personnel poorly mostly sticking them in HQ rather than on the front amongst the troops imparting their experience onto those personnel as the 39th did

The 53rd had critically low morale as well thanks to being quite literally Shanghaid onto New Guinea with some men being literally grabbed off the street on the day the battalion departed for Moresby and the troops overall being told they would not be leaving mainland Australia or even New South Wales

[desert agate]

going back to this

the resources available to the Japanese in any attempted invasion of Australia were incredibly limited
the IJN said it could provide the IJA with enough transports for 4 divisions, the IJA determined it needed 12 as a minimum
Assuming then, that an attack goes through the IJA would have to seriously limit the scope of its planned operation, it would be left incapable of landing near or taking any cities South of Bundaberg, assuming they even got that far, realistically no invasion goes past Townsville, being the most significant port in Northern Queensland, before being swiftly wiped out by a lack of supply thanks to USN submarines operating out of Brisbane, and the massive airpower available to the RAAF (which the IJN was incapable of countering) and the two divisions of the AIF in Australia (with the 7th being based at Townsville) plus 5 AMF divisions (although depending on timeframe one of those AMF divisions would be on the West Coast) and would prompt the rapid withdrawal of the 9th division which had remained in North Africa to fight at El Alamein (after 1942 the division would also be back home)

The only other option available to the Japanese, which was discussed quite seriously was a potential landing around Darwin to secure the city and prevent Allied air raids from the city, this landing would have been difficult to oppose thanks to almost non-existent infrastructure to provide logistics going towards Darwin with no paved roads and a single railway that would have certainly been cut North of Alice Springs that would have made any attempt to drive the Japanese off very difficult, although such proximity to the RAAFs home operations as well as major USN submarine bases would still have condemned the Japanese landing to a very brutal demise not unlike that seen at Rabaul

there was also a number of Indigenous units in the Far North who were capable of being self sufficient in the brutal Far North of Australia and were specially trained for guerrilla operations against a potential Japanese landing in the Northern Territory which would have seriously hampered any Japanese landings

[opaque wing]

I ain't reading allat 💀

Anyway, as a newcomer, walls of text are a good sign

[steel rapids]

Yes

It's the history nerd club

So there would be a wall of words

[ivory ridge]

Releasing in June let's go

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1785298355909779667

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD 1946, USS Solar was berthed at Earle, N.J., to discharge ammunition when a hedgehog projectile detonated and caused a series of three explosions. The blasts were so great that the ship's forward superstructure was folded back. The accident killed 7 sailors and injured 125.

Twitter · Apr 30, 2024, 1:21 PM

[frozen kestrel]

jesus christ...

[subtle prawn]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/04/france-orders-first-long-lead-items-for-pang-aircraft-carrier-program/

[spring briar]

I wonder what the long leads are

[subtle prawn]

According to a French MoD release, the contract awarded on 26 April by the Direction Générale de l’Armement (DGA – the defense procurement agency) focuses on the propulsion of the future aircraft carrier: The nuclear reactors, their containment structures and the secondary loop which converts the energy from the nuclear reactor into electricity.

[spring briar]

Yeah was thinking it would be smth like that

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind

Think Uss Midway worked hard during this

[steel rapids]

Lol those southern guys got wreck

[supple shore]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Boise_(CL-47)

why is boise wearing a oxygen tank with the mask, does it have to with a historical references with her during WWII?

[manic latch]

Represents Copium EU fans had when they thought her to be Alaska because of how long her barrels are in the art

Personally it's a stupid design focusing more on the artist's character rather than the ship itself

Hope they stop that after Anson incident

[sullen canyon]

It's because she was almost sunk at one point of her career, but managed to get back to the docks safely. Pretty much it's because she suffered a hit at the water line that caused the damage to her three turrets at the time

She also managed to hit an uncharted shoal as well too

Or if you want a wild speculation here, is she watched too much Batman stuff and thought she would look cool as Bane

[thorny patio]

So how much of a stretch would it be for the game devs to eventually add ships of the Brazilian navy from around the time of the world wars?

I mean it'd be neat to see at least this classy lady

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_battleship_Minas_Geraes

[tawny lava]

a big one

unfortunately

think of the last time a faction was added

[thorny patio]

I guess it would be more as a twist alt-alt history considering how old this ship was

[tawny lava]

i mean we have mikasa, i don't think the timeframe is a problem

it's more of the fact that it's a "minor" nation

[thorny patio]

That still participated in the battle of the Atlantic. It had ships sunk by German U boats and sunk quite a few in return

The last faction that was added was tempesta... And they have a legit handful of ships.

[tawny lava]

and they're not even a real nation

they're just a collection of old sailing ships

[thorny patio]

NP and dragon Empery were also for the longest time very VERY small.

And the fact that the Chinese navy got added at all is imo... Fuckin crazy

[tawny lava]

well, chinese developer, there was going to be a chinese faction anyway

[thorny patio]

Yeah but even so, it was still miniscule compared to "the big 4"

[tawny lava]

true

[thorny patio]

And Avrora was the only NP ship for a long time

Yet she was always NP

[tawny lava]

I mean i wish there were a bunch of smaller factions in the game but it's as if the devs forgot that they can add more at all

[thorny patio]

And then there's the fact that misc exists, so you could theoretically throw in any minor ship into misc

That's the laziest option

Wowarships has brazil

[tawny lava]

well they have pan america

[thorny patio]

Doesn't refute my point

XD

[tawny lava]

yeah yeah just saying

[thorny patio]

Oh it's okay, I'm not trying to beat you into submission here XD

[tawny lava]

they group up any smaller navies into a pan continental nation in game

lmao dw

[thorny patio]

But out of all the minor factions of WW2, Brazil had like the strongest naval tradition out of all of SA

They also actually participated in the ground fighting

[tawny lava]

It's a shame most people don't care about any nation in ww2 that's not the us, japan, ussr, britain and germany

and sometimes canada and australia

[thorny patio]

Oh!

Also, there's the fact that they added a Portuguese sailing frigate in the tempesta faction... So is it really that farfetched to imagine a Portuguese analog faction exists in-game?

[tawny lava]

it would probably be easily done

[thorny patio]

It would be the logical and probably easiest addition

[tawny lava]

most nations would be easy additions honestly

you don't even have to have them play that major a role in the story

[thorny patio]

I mean... Sardenga comes to mind

xD

[desert agate]

Adding minor factions would require AL devs do something that isn’t just appealing to coomers and actually hints at the historical inspiration for this game that basically doesn’t exist anymore

[tawny lava]

sardegna in AL and italy in ww2 get WILDLY different levels of attention

[tawny lava]

Bro is SPITTING facts right here

[desert agate]

I’ve wanted the RAN for years and it won’t happen because Manjuu is too busy adding napkinwaffe iron blood trash

[tawny lava]

I mean that's why i'm here in the first place, the historical inspiration

[thorny patio]

Imo their focus on IB I think stems from them ignoring them Early on

[tawny lava]

i genuinely have no care for gatcha games otherwise

[grave ravine]

I can't tell if you think the RM gets more attention in game our outside

[desert agate]

IB should be a minor faction

[grave ravine]

but either way people tend to ignore it

[thorny patio]

Plan Z basically supercharged their interest

[tawny lava]

idrk about that

[desert agate]

And they should be ignored instead of having 3x their irl fleet consisting almost entirely of paper

[tawny lava]

i really get what you mean with the paperships but i think it's fine them having a major role

i mean, it's not as if germany was a minor nation in ww2...

[desert agate]

On the Naval front it was

[grave ravine]

the German surface fleet was tho

[tawny lava]

it was outmatched

[desert agate]

What did the kriegsmarine actually achieve in a strategic sense?

[thorny patio]

I agree they get too much attention, but I also understand why in a game themed after ww2 in general that Germany is given a bigger role than they normally would

[tawny lava]

I mean if that's the argument what did the regia marina achieve in a strategic sense?

[ivory ridge]

the LITERAL first major event of the game was german, what are you on

[desert agate]

1% of the average monthly shipping across the Atlantic sunk? Wow well done Donitz you’ve really outdone yourself

[tawny lava]

same

[grave ravine]

The RM enabled the Axis to fight a years long campaign in North Africa

one that they notably lost, but it allowed them to fight it nevertheless

[desert agate]

Well for starters it regularly contested sea control over the Mediterranean and in some stages even achieved naval superiority over the Allies

[grave ravine]

the RM was effectively able to deny access to the central Med to the allies until it ran out of fuel in mid 1943

[tawny lava]

fair enough

but that's besides the point

[desert agate]

No RAN no Brazil, another 2 years of IB UR events

[grave ravine]

And in the prewar environment, the undisputed big 5 naval powers if you will were the WNT signatories, the US, UK, Japan, Italy, and France

[maiden citrus]

the azur lane specialty

[grave ravine]

countries like the USSR, Germany, and others were third tier powers

[desert agate]

Remember that time the RN didn’t get a single event for 14 months and IB got 3 events in that time including a UR event

[tawny lava]

All i'm trying to say is that i agree that there are too many IB UR papership events, but i don't think they should be a minor faction in the lore

[grave ravine]

To this day France and Italy still haven't had a UR event

[tawny lava]

Even just to "even the odds" the crimson axis needs another heavy hitter to oppose AL

[grave ravine]

and it ought to be Italy

[desert agate]

Too hard for Manjuu to do French or Italian URs
10 more IB URs

[thorn widget]

my country (australia) missing out (other than vampire)

[desert agate]

Sakura Empire exists

[desert agate]

Vampire isn’t even Australian in game
Also Shropshire is in game too

[grave ravine]

The Kriegsmarine was very definitely in 3rd place as far as Axis naval powers go behind the IJN and RM

[grave ravine]

newb was saying the axis needed two major navies

[desert agate]

Vampire and Shropshire are the only two RAN ships and neither are actually in the RAN in game

[thorn widget]

true, but shropshire was orginally british anyways and was handed over

[tawny lava]

more like 3

[desert agate]

So was Vampire?

[thorny patio]

Wait, should we take into account that the IB faction is no longer JUST The Kriegsmarine since they added ships from the interwar and Kaiserreich days?

[thorn widget]

true

[desert agate]

In any case adding the RAN as a faction is the only thing that would ever bring be back to this godforsaken game

[thorn widget]

the QE class is ww1 era, so are many other british sips

[thorny patio]

What about Brazil then? xD

[thorn widget]

real. we had a lot

[desert agate]

I’m not from Brazil so I don’t really care if they get added or not

[grave ravine]

The QEs fought in WW2 though

[thorn widget]

IB is probably more just a germany in general faction. i wish we had the kaiser class

[thorn widget]

jutland

[desert agate]

It would be nice if they did get added but it doesn’t matter to me if they do

[tawny lava]

I mean the axis have one less faction as opposed to AL so i think it's fine to buff the IB as a major antagonist to "balance the odds", germany was THE big bad in ww2 after all

[grave ravine]

least eurocentric mindset

[desert agate]

Eurocentrism and its consequences

[tawny lava]

well they started it

[thorny patio]

If it means getting Brazil, I'd happily nerf IB

[tawny lava]

what are you guys on about?

[desert agate]

Depends on how you define things

[thorn widget]

yeah to us australians, no one at the time gave a shit about europe. we only wanted to fend off the japanese

[desert agate]

It’s often taught in Asia that WW2 started in 1937

[grave ravine]

much of the world does not in fact think of Germany as "THE big bad"

[desert agate]

That’s wrong

[thorn widget]

well technically, yes. japanese invasion of china

[desert agate]

I would note that the Menzies government sold iron ore to Japan in the late 30s

[thorn widget]

yeah its not totally right, but many didnt want to be forced to fight in africa when our homeland was being threatened with japanese invasion

[desert agate]

Menzies was an Anglophile and he wanted to fellate the British and they wanted the AIF in Europe and Africa and so that’s where they went

[thorny patio]

The US also was diplomatic with the Japanese... At least we weren't willing to start a war with them

[thorn widget]

yeah, i have letters from my great grandparent basically saying fk menzies lol

they love curtin thou

[desert agate]

It wasn’t until the pig iron fiasco combined with a few other factors that brought down the government that Curtin took control and forced the British to concede and allow the AIF to be redeployed home

[grave ravine]

Eh, I mean at the time in the US it was generally recognized that we were on a collision course with the Axis, the US had been steadily moving towards a war footing

[desert agate]

As a minor tangent Menzies was at one point proposed to replace Churchill in 1941

[thorn widget]

lmfao

[tawny lava]

Of course not anymore, what i'm saying is that in the european theater germany was the major threat and the one everyone keeps talking about, let's be honest with ourselves Italy is not the first nation you think about when you think ww2

[desert agate]

Personally I think of Japan but yknow Eurocentric history and all

[tawny lava]

again,i'm talking european theatre

[grave ravine]

and as far as European naval actions go, the Med is in fact what I would think of first

[thorn widget]

same here

they did literally murder my great grandparents friends as pows

[tawny lava]

You are all competely misunderstanding what i'm trying to say

[desert agate]

I mean the British do dramatically overemphasise how important the Atlantic was

[thorn widget]

we do NOT talk about solomon islands and png

[desert agate]

They pose it as an existential threat which, yes, it was, but only if they lost which they were never at risk of doing

[grave ravine]

I think IB ought not to have been a major faction because IRL they were not a major surface naval power, and that has resulted in them getting a gazillion paper ships which nobody cares about other than the Wehraboos

[thorn widget]

nah atlantic was pretty important because of the trade system. german victory there would have starved britain (which was their goal)

[grave ravine]

Britain was never actually that close to starvation tho

[thorn widget]

they could just use the existing ww1 ships

[maiden citrus]

naval wise germany was absolutely tiny, while japan was a massive threat

[thorn widget]

so.... the battle of the atlantic was a british victory.... which was the point

[desert agate]

At the absolute peak of the U Boat campaign in 1941-42 the Kriegsmarine never sank more than 1% of the monthly shipping across the Atlantic

[grave ravine]

which nobody cares about because nobody actually cares about WW1 navies period

none of the Kaiserlichemarine ships actually got that popular even amongst the wehraboo crowd

[maiden citrus]

false, we do, and it's kinda bs ib specifically got interesting ww1 designs while other factions wait for ones that still existed in ww2 lol

[thorn widget]

thats because its not wehraboo..... its imperial germany

[desert agate]

The battle of the Atlantic is far far too overhyped in the history of the war, that’s not to disrespect those Allied sailors who fought and died in it but more that the Germans were never even close to winning at any point

[tawny lava]

You're taking my "it makes sense that IB is buffed in AL lore because germany was the most major and influential military force in the EUROPEAN side of the war" argument and turning it into "look it's another eurocentric history buff who thinks ww2 was only in europe"

[desert agate]

The Atlantic submarine war vs the Pacific is like night and day in terms of effectiveness
The Germans would be lucky to sink 1 or 2 ships in a convoy they engaged, the Americans and Dutch routinely destroyed entire convoys with ease

Anyway I’m going to work

[tawny lava]

at no point did i ever say or imply that the pacific, asian or north african or any onter theatre was any less relevant

[grave ravine]

which is why Manjuu hasn't bothered to make another WW1 event

[thorn widget]

probably

i wish they do thou

[maiden citrus]

all the interesting things we could get if events weren't biased af

[grave ravine]

Like it would legitimately be interesting to get the WW1 dreadnaughts from various countries, but instead we are just getting more shitty plan Z paper ships

[thorny patio]

Yes but the public, up until Pearl, were still very much against a first strike... The entire debacle with the Japanese came down to two governments that didn't want war, but couldn't ignore the outside forces pushing them into it

For the Japanese it was their inability to get a handle on their military, and an inability to stop the war in China.

From their perspective they couldn't justify what the Americans were asking of them: to send all their troops home without gain. It would be a political nightmare at home if they suddenly had thousands of disillusioned men with guns sent home with nothing to show for it.

But if they were to keep fighting, they had to get resources that they could only get by taking from the Pacific...

The US didn't want to go to war but it became clear that if they didn't stand against Japanese imperialism, they'd be doing something antithetical to the current governments policy... Which never looks good.

IM NOT DEFENDING Japan

God no

[desert agate]

Manjuu won’t make another WW1 event because they knew they went too hard with Seydlitz and could never top that peak again

[thorn widget]

real as fuck

[grave ravine]

I uh think its wrong to try and differentiate between the Imperial Japanese government and military

the elements of civilian government with power were just as committed to their imperialist war in China

[thorn widget]

nah they both murderous

[grave ravine]

and the IJN had mobilized for war over a year before the American oil embargo

[maiden citrus]

I don't think it's eurocentric at all, but we do know germany's navy is not a major one and that's the context of this game, like, the forces being equal doesn't matter, you could have given the axis multiple other countries historically and it would have still got them steamrolled by the time 1943 and later rolls around

[grave ravine]

The Kriegsmarine was not the biggest Axis naval power in Europe, and this is a game about navies, not tanks

[thorny patio]

I mean, the empire was always militaristic, but during the interwar period the civilian government was more liberal than what then became of it once the hardline war hawks took greater influence

[naive crag]

It's also alternate history, and Manjuu knows Germany would have built more ships if not for 20 years of treaty restrictions.

[thorny patio]

mukden was seen by the civilian government as a massive "What the fuck are they doing?" Moment

Or was it the Marco polo bridge incident?

[tawny lava]

That is all true, i just think it's fine for storytelling purposes, if you were to have 100% historically accurate navies you'd just be rewriting ww2 but with waifus

[glass trail]

i saw mukden

[grave ravine]

I disagree, because I think its made the game uninteresting, when we don't have ships with actual fascinating histories behind them

and instead get paper crap

[tawny lava]

It has because the devs have gotten lazy and just started doing basically JUST paper crap, instead of keeping it to a level that's interesting and not overdone

[grave ravine]

And lets be real, the AL storyline is incredibly confusing, not particularly interesting, retconned to hell, and not a major draw of the game

[maiden citrus]

part of the whole point of the game is to know and learn the history behind the characters that get added, but now it's just devolved into star rail nonsense where every character is a rando with nothing behind them

[naive crag]

With the exception of Unzen and BisZwei, the paper ships get some people into learning the histories of why those countries were designing those paper ships.

[thorny patio]

Well it doesn't help that the game has to have what amounts to filler to keep the game going for as long as it can while trying to still add in interesting stuff

[tawny lava]

i agree with the issue, i just don't think that paper ships as a concept or IB being buffed are themselves the problem

[grave ravine]

I mean there are so, so many interesting ships from various countries that they could be adding instead

[grave ravine]

because Hitler's design bureau had too much meth?

[naive crag]

That applies to counties other than Germany as well.

[maiden citrus]

indeed it does!

paper ships isn't just a ib issue

[thorny patio]

Also aren't some paper ships just collabs with warships?

[naive crag]

This past CNY is probably the only reason people would ever look into the China-Monfalcone proposals

[maiden citrus]

those are the pr ones yes

[grave ravine]

those are the pr and drs

and kinda Unzen

[maiden citrus]

unzen is so paper it transcends reality

[tawny lava]

unzen is just trash

[thorny patio]

Speaking of IB... Some of the older ships (release wise) still haven't gotten as much attention as the newer IB ships.

Graf Zeppelin
Leipzig
Graf Spee

[tawny lava]

I just wish it was all more spaced out, some paper ships every once in a while is cool but when it becomes basically the only thing that's coming out (coupled with the repetitive character design) it becomes boring fast

[naive crag]

Again, that's not just an IB issue

And Leipzig just got a skin a while ago

[maiden citrus]

mrw azur lane decides to put constellation in an event and not a single member of the new mexico class of which there are 0 of in game after 7 years

[naive crag]

The lack of New Mexicos is a travesty, but Constellation is a gem

[thorny patio]

Bro, the fact Texas isn't in the game already when it's successors are is wild

[tawny lava]

neither is new york

[maiden citrus]

'but these old ships would be b-'

mikasa is gold, next

[thorny patio]

A ship doesn't have to be "good" in any sense of the term to be in this game

[maiden citrus]

yeah just a lot of people have that argument

that if a ship isn't good in game it will have been a waste

[thorny patio]

Just look at the Colorado class

[maiden citrus]

(which is silly as ship strength in game, even stats, is 100% arbitrary)

[thorny patio]

I love my mountain mama, but Jesus they are meh

[grave ravine]

Otherwise like 80% of the best ships would be American, which no one would find interesting

[thorny patio]

Which makes the lack of NM even weirder

Because aren't the Colorados and NMs right after the other?

[maiden citrus]

nm, california, colorado

californias are in

[thorny patio]

The biggest faction is EU isn't it?

[maiden citrus]

(they're blue despite being the best capital ships in the world upon completion, but then again, we have common rarity fletchers)

[maiden citrus]

it would be yes

[grave ravine]

AFAIK all the fletchers are blue or purple

But even that's a travesty

[grave ravine]

In terms of number of ships in game, I believe it's Sakura

[maiden citrus]

I think the funniest part was making gearings and sumners purple

when either one would trounce a shima

[thorny patio]

You wanna talk travesty? Why the hell are the Königsbergs fuckin blue?

Wait... They aren't even that

[maiden citrus]

they're commons

[thorny patio]

THEYRE GREY

[grave ravine]

A Fletcher would trounce Shima

[maiden citrus]

which to be fair... irl they are pretty bad ships, unfortunately

[naive crag]

Because the Königsbergs were terrible cruisers

And I'm saying that

[maiden citrus]

they look great, love their in game depictions

but yeah sadly they're pretty bad irl

[naive crag]

[maiden citrus]

wows makes them look based af

[thorny patio]

I was about to say, I use them in wow and they are AWESOME

like best mid-tier ships imo

[maiden citrus]

it's because they're one of few ships to get 360 turret rotation (MANY, MANY SHIPS COULD DO THIS)

and armor in wows is just, do you have less armor? congrats you're tankier

due to the hp system and citadel weirdness

[thorny patio]

When I saw they were commons in AL, I felt slighted XD

[tawny lava]

That's always been so stupid

[thorny patio]

Also judge me if you will, but I like playing with the Kaiserreich battle cruisers

[maiden citrus]

if some ships that could historically do so also got the 360 turret turning it would make them hilariously strong

since consider the following: as far as I'm aware from a photo I've seen, atlanta could do so

[tawny lava]

Couldn't the clevelands do that too?

[thorn widget]

couldnt nurnburg also do that?

[thorny patio]

Battlecruisers in general are fun for me

Cus I like being a glass cannon

HIT HARD DIE FAST

[maiden citrus]

no, they're +150 to -150 degrees

which is nearly but not quite

[tawny lava]

I see

[maiden citrus]

yes

[thorn widget]

wows?

[maiden citrus]

most 360 degree turrets can turn twice before reaching a limit

roughly 720 degrees

[thorny patio]

Oh, speaking of wows... why is Prinz Heinrich considered a big ass battleship when in AL she's paired with the vanguard?

[thorny patio]

Yes but just in general

[maiden citrus]

large cruisers go in vanguard

in azur lane

[naive crag]

not the same ship

[thorn widget]

real, i pretty much only play eugen lmfao (dont stop me from having fun, i hate grind games)

[thorny patio]

Eugen in beastly in wows

[tawny lava]

I got eugen out of a container lmao

The heal is nice but the reload is painful

[thorny patio]

Welcome to German naval engineering

You got big guns

[thorn widget]

honestly when i was trying to get her without p2w, i found nurnburg often shoots faster and gives me better damage output, but yeah i love eugen agains things with more armour

[naive crag]

@thorny patio
The one is AL is a P-class cruiser. Heinrich in WoWs is the 5041 BC proposal iirc

[thorny patio]

Ah

[thorn widget]

i literally first came to WoWs because of irl prinz eugen and my interest in ships cause by my family's naval history, then i came to AL

[naive crag]

Heinrich in WoWs is Ersatz Yorck. 5041 was Schlieffen

[tawny lava]

Same but without the family history

[thorn widget]

real

[tawny lava]

I can't even remember how i got into history in the first place

[thorny patio]

I got into wows because my ancestor died on the Arizona... And through wows I found AL

[thorn widget]

oh real

[thorny patio]

That's why when I started AL, I stuck with using Arizona as my flag

[tawny lava]

Probably those awful history channel "documentaries"

[thorn widget]

im never replacing my waifu fleet

[thorny patio]

It's sorta my staple ship

[tawny lava]

A much more noble reason than most

[thorny patio]

And when Arizona Meta was released?

Oh man, I saw her art and she was the first meta I ever felt truly compelled to fully complete

[maiden citrus]

dang I was going to post this photo of an atlanta with one of its turrets in an obvious 360 capable position but I can't find it

[thorny patio]

Like... Call me weird, but Arizona Meta sitting atop her own wreckage like the caring watch guard of her dead crew, which would include my great-great granduncle... I honestly can say she's my favorite ship

[tawny lava]

Fair enough i say

[thorny patio]

Also the bubble with an actual illustration of her sinking is a nice touch

[maiden citrus]

sad as I thought the photo was really neat, I should've saved it

[ivory ridge]

Otto was so fucking dumb, DDs are all the germs have left for surface ships and they pick a paper shitter that barely counts as DD? lol

[thorn widget]

this honestly...

none of the ships that i can recall my family being on are even in AL partly because australia and also because most of it was later than '45

[thorny patio]

Yeah, I honestly think Manjuu is capable of developing truly beautiful illustrations like this through their artists. Every part of that image has a meaning. It speaks to what the ship is

[thorn widget]

but my navy grandpa loves bismarck lmfao

[tawny lava]

That whole event was kind of a mess

[thorn widget]

fr

[tawny lava]

The island thing was neat but the characters not so much

Can't even remember who came out

[thorn widget]

i told him i like eugen more and he was like... .fair enough

[ivory ridge]

also introduced gacha metas which is just

[thorny patio]

Arizona Meta doesn't even feel like a meta... More like they just wanted to give Arizona a more proper kit and design so she could stick out

It worked

However I love both versions

[tawny lava]

Should have beer a retro imo

Like bismarck fucking zwei

[thorny patio]

Or Rodney META... Why didn't they just retro her like they did her sister!

[tawny lava]

The retro situation sends me crazy man

[thorny patio]

Retros imo are a neat way to give older ships a new coat of paint XD

[ivory ridge]

"what's a retro" - Italian player

[thorny patio]

Oof

[tawny lava]

That one hit hard

[tawny lava]

But yeah retros are awesome

They even work historically

[thorn widget]

where my 1942 eugen irl retrofit???

[maiden citrus]

where my DDEs at

DDEs are based

[tawny lava]

Dde?

[maiden citrus]

destroyer escorts

[tawny lava]

Oh i see

[thorny patio]

It could happen... I mean if a SSR like sandy got a retro to UR... Eugen could get the... Oh and then she got a μ form

[maiden citrus]

we have a couple so far

[thorn widget]

Where my HMAS Australia, canberra, sydney, brisbane, perth, melborne at?

[thorn widget]

real

[maiden citrus]

eldrige and hammann 2 are ddes

[thorn widget]

actually there would be a perfect event, the Sydney vs Kormoran

[thorny patio]

You know what would be wild? Add in PT boats XD

[thorn widget]

REALLL

[thorny patio]

Absolutely never going to happen, but I'td be insane

[maiden citrus]

the day they add an erie class they can have my money

[grave ravine]

Waiting for Sammy B and England

And Stewart

[thorny patio]

Wait are you saying you'd want them? I mean so would I but I was just meme'ing XD

[maiden citrus]

I always imagine my mass produced are eries, so yeah

they're quite cool historically

[grave ravine]

Goofy little ships

[thorny patio]

Goofy little goblins of terror

[tawny lava]

What was that one dde that sunk a whole bunch of ijn subs?

[grave ravine]

England

[tawny lava]

Oh yeah

That thing was basically a doomguy for subs

[maiden citrus]

3.5'' belt, 1.25'' deck, 4x1 6'' guns, lots of aa, sonar, radar, floatplane, 8,000 mile range and weighs... 2k tons

[thorny patio]

Actually... You could have PT boats as a sub-class like the sailing frigates.

Maybe give them a buff against suicide ships, constructs and planes

[maiden citrus]

somebody cooked

absolutely miniscule sized swiss army knife

[thorny patio]

But more deeps

DEEPS

[grave ravine]

Anyways what I want is more American destroyers

Melvin, Johnston, O'Bannon etc

[tawny lava]

I want more italian destroyers

Even i forget sometimes that there were a good few of them

[ivory ridge]

sorry here have more Capitani romani wasted as golds

[thorny patio]

I WANT TEXAS GOSH DARNIT

[maiden citrus]

eries technically have no instances that violate the wnt etc either so you can just build infinite of them

[tawny lava]

Wouldn't say they're wasted

[ivory ridge]

I would

[chilly flower]

I thiiiink there was a better photo featuring this capability but I can't immediately remember which member the photo featured even after doing a quick navsource check (including the Juneau class)
buuuuuuuut

[ivory ridge]

very much so

[chilly flower]

Atlanta herself no less

[maiden citrus]

good find good find

[tawny lava]

Why's that?

[ivory ridge]

Because they couldve been URs

[maiden citrus]

not the one I was thinking of but an excellent one

pretz always got you

[ivory ridge]

Now they are mediocre SSR DDs

[maiden citrus]

the one I'm thinking of was taken in dock

[ivory ridge]

not even good ones

[chilly flower]

There's a lot where one turret is pointed to an extreme arc but I can't for the life of me remember the exact one

[maiden citrus]

and iirc it's turret 3 facing the bridge

[tawny lava]

They can still do that

[maiden citrus]

pointed at the sky

[chilly flower]

I think I remember that one too

[ivory ridge]

citation needed

[thorny patio]

Imagine retrofitting NJ to have her tomahawk cruise missiles XDs

[tawny lava]

I mean there were 10 of them

[ivory ridge]

and you think the fucking

laid one ones

would be UR

over the ones that actually fought????

you're more delusional than manjuu

[grave ravine]

USS Gyatt with her terriers

[maiden citrus]

gestures at many of the urs

one should never count out manju to do something stupid

[tawny lava]

Chill maybe?

[ivory ridge]

I get that manjuu does weird stuff but this isnt weird this is just

lmao

[chilly flower]

similar but still not the exact photo
Sandy and Juan getting outfitted next to Massa

[maiden citrus]

'oh this ship is a fan magazine submission, it should be ur'

[maiden citrus]

fellow atlanta lover here to showcase

[ivory ridge]

a) thats japan, the devs beloved, not italy, the faction they forget existing thrice a year
b) not the same as releasing the actually existing ships as gold and the unfinished ones as URs

imagine this

Iowa class, all 4 the completed ones, as gold

then out of nowhere

Kentucky UR

[grave ravine]

My lukewarm take of the day is that Atlanta's capabilities as a surface warship have been unfairly tarnished, and that Atlanta was actually a pretty good DL

[maiden citrus]

TIME TO FRY SOME CHICKEN

[ivory ridge]

dont you think thats a bit much?

[maiden citrus]

it would be stupid yes, but stupid is the expected

[maiden citrus]

currect take

[chilly flower]

[maiden citrus]

atlanta's defenses are fine and offenses specialized for aa, but also fine

[chilly flower]

doesn't help that the circumstances in which the two sank are uh
both unlucky and kinda ludicrous for any CL of the time to survive imo

[maiden citrus]

two long lances in the same spot let's go

[chilly flower]

yeeeeeup

[maiden citrus]

(survived the first one as an 8k ton cruiser)

[grave ravine]

It isn't even really specialized for AA, the armament is largely designed around smacking destroyers

And the Japanese 5500 tonners

[maiden citrus]

atlanta's aa broadside is actually pretty absurd

[grave ravine]

But they turned out to be brilliant for AA

[maiden citrus]

it has more large flak than even bbs

[tawny lava]

I didn't even know anyone ever considered the atlantas even remotely bad ships

[grave ravine]

A lot of people claim they were only good for AA

[maiden citrus]

which had enough large flak for the funny nc incident where their allies called them to ask if they had been hit because they were dumping so many shells downrange that it was thought they were on fire

[tawny lava]

First time i hear that

[maiden citrus]

atlanta's reputation has mostly mended over the years

less people have the odd take they were bad

[grave ravine]

This is also why I said it was a lukewarm take

[maiden citrus]

like the japanese tried to make an atlanta type ship and it was so infinitely worse

[tawny lava]

The akizukis?

[maiden citrus]

more things like the aganos

[tawny lava]

Didn't those predate the atlantas?

[maiden citrus]

azizukis are closest to fletchers/gearings but really fat and anemic shells

first agano was commisioned october 42

[tawny lava]

Interesting

[maiden citrus]

agano's only real plus is they are slightly faster

[tawny lava]

Wasn't the japanese 100mm a good AA gun?

[maiden citrus]

it fired at roughly the same speed as a 5''/38, but the shell was much worse, especially for surface work

was it 'good' yes it was, but it wasn't as good as many us guns like the mentioned one

japanese aa gets a bad rep in general though so I should clarify japan had the 2nd best aa in the world

[tawny lava]

I mean most guns are good AA guns in comparison to the japanese equivalent

[grave ravine]

And their torp armament is a bit heavier

[chilly flower]

Atlanta meanwhile had to put up with a long lance amidships (though allegely crewmembers remarked about a second torpedo impact iirc? not confirmed though), lost everything but aux power before then getting hit by 18 x 8" shells from Frisco (which overpenned but did a lot of fragmentation, largely just killing crew including Admiral Scott), and even after that wasn't sinking in a hurry even as the sun rose (but still in such a state that she couldn't really make it back, not in the contested slot) so they evacuated remaining crew and scuttled

[grave ravine]

IIRC more 8" hits were Portland than Frisco

[maiden citrus]

so compared to the majority of the world the japanese 3.9'' is a good aa weapon

so are the japanese 5'' aa guns in general

[chilly flower]

Were they? I haven't read that anywhere

[maiden citrus]

japan's failing in aa comes from no medium sized weapons and the 25mm is very mediocre

but japan's large aa is probably the world's 2nd best as a whole system

[grave ravine]

Lundgren did an analysis that's up on Navweaps that amongst other things found that Frisco only fired one salvo at Atlanta, while Portland fired two

[chilly flower]

also, more relevantly for large caliber AA in general
is that they generally aren't that great outside of deterrence unless you have VT fuses, which then renders them viable for really taking down aircraft outright

[chilly flower]

care to link?

[grave ravine]

The older 127/40s were somewhat worse, but compared to what a lot of other navies at the outbreak of the war had it was still pretty good

[maiden citrus]

right, japan's aa gets a lot of bad rep

[grave ravine]

And Japanese AA fire control was overall pretty good

[maiden citrus]

but that's mostly because they were fighting the nation with far and away the best aa by miles, so it just looked poor

[chilly flower]

yeah

[maiden citrus]

japanese aa fire control was better than british systems

[grave ravine]

Yeah

[maiden citrus]

hence why 'second place in the world' might seem odd but

[chilly flower]

US losses to AA in the PTO weren't exactly insignificant either, it was a pretty credible threat

[tawny lava]

Overwhelming US air superiority later in the war probably didn't help either

[chilly flower]

even stuff like the 25mms were deadly when there was a lot of them around to throw up lead

and they stacked them on

[grave ravine]

http://www.navweaps.com/index_lundgren/index_lundgren.php, the first article, titled Naval battle of Henderson field

[maiden citrus]

the 3.9'' from japan is one of the few weapons to truly match the 5''/38 in rate of fire over time

[grave ravine]

It's an attempt at a minute by minute track chart and recounting of the battle

[maiden citrus]

it just didn't get vt and had poor shells, and the equipment was strained

[grave ravine]

I have some issues with the paper, but it brings to light a lot of interesting things

[maiden citrus]

e.g., the 5.25'' from britain had less than half the fire rate, and were difficult to handle so became even more impotent quickly

[grave ravine]

Drach also did a video where he discussed the paper with Lundgren https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kK9hkbHS5g

[chilly flower]

I'll have to give that a read

[grave ravine]

I should note that I don't agree with Lundgren's analysis of the strategic situation, and I think its worth contextualizing US actions with some of Hone's recent work on the evolution of US night fighting tactics

but as an actual recounting of what occurred during the battle, its the best out there and helps explain a lot of what seems odd and confusing in the past historical record

[shy grail]

4in/45 from Britain also matched it, and had better shell weight, better barrel life, an actual SAP shell, and had VT starting in 1944

Most importantly though that its mount was fairly small and it was very light for its weight. Compared to 3.9in/65 it weighed less than half as much

[obtuse palm]

The 5.25 in did not had quite as bad RoF as Navweaps suggests, it was similar to 4.5 in

[shy grail]

Only downside was manual operation but the even the RP refits (starting from 1942) did not increase the weight much

[shy grail]

Actually they fired it 1000 mps vs slightly under 800 mps for 5in/38 big difference

[maiden citrus]

I mean the shell itself not necessarily just velocity, for example it has pretty much only aa purpose rounds and even those are not as good

[frozen kestrel]

Quick question: What variant of the Phalanx CIWS did the Royal Navy have in the late 80's?

[junior trench]

I would certainly hope so, considering both are using overweight ammunition for HA fire

both suffer

[obtuse palm]

Both are alright when compared to contemporary 4.5in and over mounts in British service, both LA and HA, and compare alright against other nations not named the US. Even against most 4in guns of the time it is still comparable (loses to 4in/45 and 105mm L65, and 3.9 cm/65 mount is newer than either). Both have poor RoF for a HA gun when compared to the US 5in/38, because US 5in/38 has a very good mount because they invested in it

[autumn sorrel]

Block 1 was introduced in 1988, I would imagine RN ordered block 1 upgrade for all their front line unit as soon as possible but knowing the UK financial and budget cut discussions back then, the process probably was slow, so block 0 is still the standard.

[frozen kestrel]

So Block 0 would be the most accurate?

[runic ermine]

Lmao

Also, the classic argument of which flag should represent Austria-Hungary

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9bWz7fMH6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yXFVaIRX3Q

[flint mesa]

Is there any jet fighter in al?

[subtle prawn]

Unless you count skins from events, then no

[flint mesa]

[tawny lava]

[flint mesa]

[flint mesa]

An A3J-1 Vigilante nuclear bomber from VAH-7 and F8U-1 Crusader fighter from VF-62 are launched from USS Enterprise (CVN-65), 1962

Seems like they are taking off at the same time

[fierce sparrow]

scrolling up and...

I saw something... cursed

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfh0L3PCv6o

[junior jacinth]

https://youtu.be/3pSKMhL3SNI?si=BkSIAMwE_NyF2I1F

[junior jacinth]

Well this flag makes more sense

[runic ermine]

Tbh games that have both the Austrian Empire and Austria-Hungary tend to use the Civil ensign for Austria-Hungary

Myself I like the Civil ensign a lot more

[junior jacinth]

Probably that because was used when the war started

Mostly military

[runic ermine]

Both were. One was just the monarchy's flag and the other was more accessible to civilians

Also both flags were used in propaganda

[junior jacinth]

Yep

[steel rapids]

Welcome home in black body bag

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6uvdPDTaE8

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2024/05/02/secnav-del-toro-names-next-big-deck-amphib-uss-helmand-province

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1786005583495094592

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1982, HMS Conqueror became the first nuclear-powered submarine to sink an enemy vessel when it torpedoed the ARA General Belgrano during the Falklands War. The General Belgrano was formerly USS Phoenix (CL-46) which had survived the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Twitter · May 2, 2024, 12:11 PM

[supple sandal]

God damn it phoenix

[lime belfry]

Phoenix, the forgotten hero of Azur Lane early game

when she is the most used ship for cheap farming

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shrFR5wSGkk

[runic ermine]

Imagine a series on the Austro-Hungarian army but it's a comedy about how no one can understand each other

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1786523865687937425

[maiden citrus]

based

[fierce sparrow]

[indigo jay]

hello commanders. I saw this a long time ago but didn't know what it was. May I ask what use it has on ship?

[desert agate]

It’s a range finder

Basically you look into the middle and you get 2 lines you need to cross to find the range more or less

Not quite that simple but gives you a basic idea

[indigo jay]

thank you for explanation

[heavy bay]

If you ever visit Iowa, there's one of these on the tour route that you can play with

[spring briar]

POV: you are a dinosaur in Palenque, Mexico ca. 66 million years ago
@remote monolith @maiden citrus

[manic latch]

@shrewd pecan ITS HERE

Abrams with Kontakt-1 ERA

[autumn sorrel]

Where the Ukr own manufacture one? The new one that they use on Oplot

Not enough supplies or no mass production start yet?

[manic latch]

I don't know if factory that would make it still exists

[autumn sorrel]

Wasn’t it Kharkiv plant?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-iI-oOey7M

[manic latch]

@tough quail
https://vxtwitter.com/ChungTzuW/status/1786533860370440251?t=-bmGuq4xeS2wqpolF2bFiw&s=19

[spring briar]

Those questions are actually

Mostly brute force math

[junior trench]

Weird thing to wank about having a militarized society with child indoctrination because "look at the math"

But I guess it's all related to the rather hilarious degree the Soviets attempted to conduct "scientific warfare" by having a formula for literally everything

And then having comical GIGO problems

[spring briar]

I also don't really get the point in scaring off promising individuals before even having put them trough training with this

[fierce sparrow]

https://fxtwitter.com/notsonarwhals/status/1786783213504856488

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxWHW3LC8F4

[frozen kestrel]

So, this is King George V's WoWs model, but I'm currently working on retexturing it to be Prince of Wales (as seen in the images attached). I know there are some differences between KGV and POW, so I'd like to know what the major ones are, so I may rectify them/ delete incorrect assets.

[steel rapids]

Big gun, good armor and great engine sound

[junior jacinth]

https://youtu.be/S27XZRTDdMg?si=42oQMBoKL15vlW0D

[runic ermine]

I guess a lot of people just thought that it looks cool

[junior jacinth]

Yeah

[runic ermine]

I mean they're totally right about it too

[junior jacinth]

Yeah I know, most of those people saw this and thought “hey that looks awesome” and then Avery civilisations took them

[lime belfry]

ngl games make the Tiger iconic

it is usually movies and games that popularized a weapon to obcession

[rapid junco]

And documentaries from the History Channel and National Geographic

[digital mantle]

What does the “SK” stand for when referring to German Naval guns with this designation?
Is it an abbreviation for “Škoda”?

[steel rapids]

And also German tank ace makes it popular

Propaganda

[indigo jay]

u can read more details here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235056925-kgv-versus-pow/

[naive crag]

Schnelladekanone
"quick-loading cannon"

[remote monolith]

https://fxtwitter.com/BeyondOur_W0rld/status/1786260301568188581

it was almost never seen alive
it has zero fossil records from New Zealand
turns out its somehow from New Caledonia
we don't know its evolutionary process
its relationships with other geckos is highly debated

we dont even know HOW it went extinct

considering that this is literally the one complete specimen we ever have

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1786481351434060228

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute) on X

#OTD in 1945, USS Aaron Ward (DM-34) was pummeled by six kamikaze strikes near Okinawa. The crew battled against raging fires and exploding ammunition to keep the ship afloat. A kamikaze propeller can be seen lodged in her superstructure, just forward of the 5"/38 guns.

Twitter · May 3, 2024, 7:42 PM

[daring peak]

Compared to Yamatos mbg

[lime belfry]

zombie skill in Azur Lane in a nutshell

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFPhEaT0BVQ

[spring briar]

[fierce sparrow]

https://fxtwitter.com/TankMuseum/status/1787165647987728646

[junior jacinth]

https://youtu.be/qP8wCavvPi8?si=hsNlqslleds-RKai

[desert agate]

Animarchy is in this server

He used to be semi active in this channel

[runic ermine]

Wait really?

We can finally discuss more in depth stuff

Like if the Soviets could invade Hokkaido

[desert agate]

stop it please

[runic ermine]

I was joking

[desert agate]

Also I think he might have left anyway

[runic ermine]

Most likely

[tough quail]

@spring briar @manic latch

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

I've found my new favorite thing ever

[spring briar]

Oh god the flag circle on the nose

[tough quail]

right?

[willow jungle]

Canon Antitank d'Infanterie 90 mm or CATI 90. A Belgian tank destroyer which they strapped a 90mm gun on a Loyd Carrier.

[desert agate]

there was a similar French one with ATGMs

[manic latch]

Never forget

“Karelia” project 667BDRM

[runic ermine]

What was it called?

[eternal veldt]

AMX-10M, I think?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF0_UwP0H90

[versed tree]

Big cool mommy

haters will say she isnt^^

[fierce sparrow]

https://fxtwitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1787487570294952042
https://fxtwitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1787487575222935876

[runic ermine]

Who was worse?

[chilly osprey]

Cadorna sucked but at least was only given a shitty job where he had no real option other to attack in the same few spots. His options were limited.

Hötzendorf bears a huge chunk of the responsibility for throwing Europe into WWI. Fuck him in general.

[fierce sparrow]

https://fxtwitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1787482769666572402

[thorny patio]

I HAVE FOUND A FUNNY

introducing, the Vespa 150 TAP

an Anti-Tank scooter

[frozen kestrel]

Quick question: Found this one the side of King George V's superstructure while texture mapping. Anyone know what this is?

[shrewd pecan]

baby M1A2

Wonder where the prototype is now

[autumn sorrel]

Which part of the superstructure?

[autumn sorrel]

Sadly, no fire on the bike, you have to dismount the gun and place it on a tripod to fire, the bike are just to transport

[frozen kestrel]

Directly below this thing (which I'm guessing is a fire control director), in front of the main mast

[desert agate]

@eternal veldt

[autumn sorrel]

It said the FC director is aft of the mainmast but maybe the position got wrong in the texture. As for the lights, no mention of it in any technical data, probably something involve with RN practice, they prob mention it somewhere in their training manual.

Correction: technical info that I can find, silver probably can dig deeper into this

[thorny patio]

So I just learned SUBARU manufactured the "Kate" bombers during ww2

Oooooh noooooo

Subaru

Whyyyyyyyyy

I mean it was obvious, Mitsubishi also developed planes... I just forgot Subaru was that old as well.

I legit thought Subaru was more of a modern company

The developed the "tenrai" as well

[desert agate]

All of Japans modern automotive companies have their roots before WW2

Daihatsu is probably the only one that was the least involved and even they had their factories seized by the government during the war

[eternal veldt]

Possibly a signal light. The object above is the HACS Mark V director, found only on Duke of York, Howe, and Anson (until 1945).

[autumn sorrel]

Oh, today is 7th May

Dien Bien Phu Surrender day

That's explain why the nearby heli regiment was being so noisy

[runic ermine]

Myself I'd say that Hötzendorf was worse due to his failures in Serbia and on the eastern front as well as overstretching his supply line so bad after Caperetto that his soldiers didn't have ammunition to attack the Italians along the Piave River

[autumn sorrel]

Hotzendorf push for war so hard that any diplomatic overture after the archduke assassination became pointless.

[lime belfry]

the day the French lost, yet again

[autumn sorrel]

Bonus point, Giap used Vauban siege tactic in later stage

So, the French worse enemy: another French

[lime belfry]

the french underestimated their foes, their worst enemy is their own ignorgrance

"Sir, we should occupy the hills around the valley... what if the Viet had artillery ?"

"Dont worry Leon, they cant possibly put heavy arty on mountain"

[autumn sorrel]

They seek to emulate Na San, problem is that Navarre fail at map reading and don't realize that the place he want to build the fortification are in the lowland

[lime belfry]

tbf Dien Bien Phu is a tad too big compared to Na San

and the VM in Na San didnt have AA, heavy arty, truck

[autumn sorrel]

351st appearance were really the surprise for French intel

Giap was taking no chance after Na San

[lime belfry]

not really

the French fully knew the 37mm and 105mm were coming

from Navare memoir

however, they thought The Beatcat can deal with them

plot twist: they cant

and neither was the B26

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, kinda is. They don't expect heavy formation like 105mm battery to be up on the hill, at most divisional 75mm field gun

[lime belfry]

Nahh, the french intel knew the Vietminh had 105mm

the problem is they dont know how those were deployec

[autumn sorrel]

They knew, they just don't believe Viet Minh have the logistical support to haul the cannon up there and maintain them

[lime belfry]

gigachad GAZ 51 hard carried logistic

but people would forever forgot about them for the more iconic porter bicycles

[autumn sorrel]

My Gramp was driver for 351st, he have tale of moving cargo and ammo to depot where the porter would do the rest of the journey from

[autumn sorrel]

Man, another day that I am remind of how old B-52 are

[shrewd pecan]

initial designs were literally just jet powered B-29s

[autumn sorrel]

Imagine, Alien invade us and B-52 will be the one who deliver Thermonuclear device, finally do what it designed to do

[runic ermine]

Did NATO just make a top gun reference?
https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1785330772250972269?t=9_5rwWRSn2NDPNgy_tTD6w&s=19

NATO (@NATO) on X

🇺🇦 Ukrainian top guns train with NATO F-16 fighter jets

A coalition of NATO Allies has agreed to donate their F-16s to the Ukrainian Air Force, and as part of the deal, Danish instructors are training Ukrainian pilots, technicians and ground crew how to fly and maintain the F-16

Twitter · Apr 30, 2024, 3:30 PM

[frozen kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/wait-what-meme-wait-a-minute-gif-14484132

[ivory ridge]

you do realize the movie didnt come up with that term right

the movie got the name from the instructor program, which itself got the name because of the meaning of the phrase itself

[upper oar]

Anyone here very knowledgeable about ww2?

[autumn sorrel]

What kind of question is that?

You want us to provide article about an event or weapon schematics?

[upper oar]

I figured but thought I’d ask anyways before I ask my question

What would’ve happened if operation pedestal never happened?
If it hadn’t the allies would still have the; HMS Eagle, HMS Cairo, HMS Manchester, HMS Foresight, and 9 other merchant ships for supplies. Additionally damage to the other ships wouldn’t have occurred; HMS Nigeria, HMS Indomitable, HMS Kenya, as well as 3 other destroyers that I can never find the names of, and several other merchant ships. How would this have impacted the war going forward, and what would the impact regarding Malta have been?
Imo despite its ideal location, the cost of the operation was extremely high and not worth it, but I’d like to hear what people think would’ve happen had they not attempted the resupply of Malta.

[autumn sorrel]

One of Malta convoys?

Let see

[upper oar]

Yep

[autumn sorrel]

The lost of ships are regrettable but RN has accomplished it strategic goal of resupply Malta

The reduction of Axis shipping is vital for future operations

[upper oar]

Do you think that if British command knew what the losses would be that they still would’ve gone through with it? I know it was vital for preventing shipping to the African theatre, but they lost a decent sized surface fleet effectively including the HMS Eagle in particular

[autumn sorrel]

About the losses, it might sound heartless but those losses are totally in acceptable parameters of RN, especially if they completed their mission

[autumn sorrel]

They would wager it against the possibility of holding Malta and will always come to the conclusion: worth it

[autumn sorrel]

And Eagle usefulness is questionable

She was very obsolete by that point

[upper oar]

Interesting I always do wonder about that over the choice of opting for sub warfare against shipping instead. Admittedly carriers were lost accomplishing less before like the glorious, but losing the eagle and then taking dmg to the indomitable seems like a big price. Really? I knew she was dated but thought she still was quite capable.

[autumn sorrel]

Subwarfare in the Med is… challenging to say the least

The Med doesn’t have the ideal conditions for sub pack warfare like the Atlantic did, the depth are way shallower and you risk getting run into Italian anti submarine group

[upper oar]

True and I suppose you have less space to work with in general in the med

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, if you consider subsequent convoys mission with how effective RAF were at attacking Axis convoy from Malta

[upper oar]

Come to think of it if the Germans were already dedicating forces to the African theatre why didn’t they send a powerful surface fleet to bombard Malta and land troops to take it

Or the Italians I suppose

[autumn sorrel]

They could try and RN can have an earlier battle of Cape Matapan style victory

Even spread out as it is, RN Med fleet way outclass and outnumber the Italian

[upper oar]

That’s why I said I suppose Italians lol mainly Germany would be better suited in terms of naval power

[autumn sorrel]

And after Crete, there won’t be any para drop operations anymore from the German, if they want to take Malta, it will require the Italian to use their Marine and Merchant Navy to transport troops, equipment and supplies. Which spread the Regia Marina out even more between combat and convoy duty.

If anything, a failed invasion of Malta can range from slightly worse Matapan to full on cripple of Regia Marina.

[upper oar]

Well yeah I definitely see why the Italians themselves would’ve struggled to do it but request maybe 2 light cruisers a heavy cruiser with a destroyer compliment from the Germans to support their invasion. If I recall correctly (I might not be) Malta is long but not very wide only about 13km which means the German ships could provide fire support anywhere on the island or minimally have bombarded taqali airbase.

[autumn sorrel]

German Navy don't have any present in the Med, travelling through Gibraltar is impossible with RN placing a strong blocking force there

And German Navy is genuinely worse than Regia Marina

Hmm, I need to rephrase this, German Navy don't have any surface present in the Med, sub could travel stealthily through Gibraltar but that is it

[upper oar]

Ofc subs are generally an exception but didn’t the germans originally have a plan to deal with Gibraltar in operation felix until they delayed it?

[autumn sorrel]

They could do a bombard run like how IJN did at Guadalcanal to Hendersen Airfield but by the time any Axis task force even reach the Island perimeter, they would be met with attack from RAF and RN QRF

Cunningham isn't dumb, he want the Italian to come out so he can destroy them

[remote monolith]

and they did, if I recall some 60 subs managed to slip through GIbraltar

[upper oar]

Hmmm I suppose that makes sense

[remote monolith]

all but one didn't come back

[autumn sorrel]

I remember U-boat command did complain about how difficult it was to operate in the Med, same for Regia Marina complain about the Atlantic

[remote monolith]

mhm

[autumn sorrel]

Turn out, Italian tailor design their sub for the med and German for the Atlantic

[remote monolith]

the Med isn't particularly rough and stormy, so the sea tends to be clear, iirc this makes U-boat escape trickier

[upper oar]

That makes sense

[autumn sorrel]

When was the Med Storm season?

[upper oar]

Autumn I think? Not sure

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm

Need someone to have access at the Bunders Archives

They prob keeping combat log of u boat in the Med

[upper oar]

Probably

Also it’s crazy in ww2 how unlucky certain ships were vs how lucky others were glorious gets hit in the central engine room in a smokescreen in high seas in fog at well over 18,000 metres meanwhile heermann runs solo against 4-5 Japanese battleships and gets away unscathed

[autumn sorrel]

Ah, wiki have the list of patrol of U boat in the Med

[upper oar]

Oh really?

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, date when they slipped through Gibraltar and their combat patrol

[upper oar]

Thank god detailed logs were kept

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJkndT0TXQ

[spring briar]

[upper oar]

Hey what if question for you ramage in the USS parche vs the USS ramage let’s say they start at only 5km distance to give the parche a chance. Is it possible for parche to win?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7C_N9WzT24

[runic ermine]

Yes but f16s using the term top gun

https://tenor.com/view/coincidence-i-think-not-coincidence-i-think-not-the-incredibles-gif-5096707

[runic ermine]

I know

I'm just saying, they specifically uses that term in that post because the movie top gun is a famous appearance of the f16 in media

[runic ermine]

Yes

Ok this is actually really really cool

[steel rapids]

History without demonetization? sure pls!

[upper oar]

Important question taking each of their three at peak strength how many of each ship type were there in the Royal Navy US Navy and Imperial Japanese Navy?

[runic ermine]

Agreed

[obtuse palm]

Hit at 26 k yards on HMS Glorious, Heermann got hit by Kongo before that run (Robert Lundgren claims 28k m/30 k yards!!)

[obtuse palm]

That's due to the waters being in a enclosed sea and the Mediterranean's own thermocline and water content, not because of a lack of storms, British forces often recorded sailing through Force 6-8 gales on their missions

In a particularly bad instance, during the battle of Second Sirte, the British forces present all suffered structural damage trying to sail through a Force 8 gale whilst manourving significantly trying to fight the Italians, and the Italians themselves had 2 destroyers sink after passing through a Force 10 gale on the way back after the battle

[ivory ridge]

The massive focus of the germans to the north africa theatre is one of the reasons an attack on malta didn't happen

[remote monolith]

ah I see, thank you

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrAOq_7sPoU

[steel rapids]

Da shermans

[obtuse palm]

Operation Pedestal would almost have certainly happened, politically untenable for Churchill otherwise. Also a lack of Malta in 1943ish would mean that the Tunisia convoys are much more survivable than otherwise (they suffered a fair bit)

[sly socket]

yoooo its the chieftain :D

[tough quail]

i would struggle to properly put into words how badly the kriegsmarine would be decimated trying to bombard malta

the regia marina would at least have a fighting chance, anything germany would try to send would struggle to make it there in the first place, and then get demolished for their hubris

[junior trench]

hear me out

develop special oxygen hyper torpedoes just for WW2 era Gibraltar to control entry through the strait

[tough quail]

im genuinely surprised stupid shit like that didnt happen

given the shit britain was doing for the home islands

[dreamy vector]

German captured M4A1 standard 75mm
"WAR DADDY Il" at kummersdorf proving
grounds

taken in 1943 date unknown.

Unknown Panther D in the background, presumably used for testing purposes

Damage to the white star insignia could be seen.

It could be a VK3002 (Panther prototype) please correct me if I'm wrong.

[versed tree]

Such a cool ship

[maiden citrus]

Agreed

[junior trench]

mfw db tag for Washington includes

https://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015617.jpg

[maiden citrus]

yee

[junior jacinth]

https://youtu.be/WZ_Z8WFCLzE?si=HbQSGdDLyDAHqofI

[tawny lava]

Wouldn't the panther prototype be VK3002?

[dreamy vector]

Typo mb

[tawny lava]

Kk

[manic latch]

@tough quail

I-16 Type 24

[fierce sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRLIYz8f58E

[ivory ridge]

🫡

[fierce sparrow]

oh well. it has to go with a new weapon system was it?

I know the zumwalt is going to be use for weapon testing

Like hypersonic missiles

[grave ravine]

Being replaced by IRCPS tubes

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/all-the-money-just-poof-chrisley-knows-best-waste-of-money-its-just-a-waste-of-money-that-money-just-vanished-gif-21713162

World's most expensive modern naval gun

[steel rapids]

Damn thick Sherman

[autumn sorrel]

No AK-130M

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMdtBD5OvII

[viscid dust]

https://youtu.be/gUH5eILBUlc

Happy VE Day yall

[manic latch]

Yosh

[hearty sigil]

it is just insane to me how big IJN Yamato was

like this thing is almost 3 american football feilds long

[manic latch]

Iowa is longer

Her large Size comes from mass and width

[tawny lava]

The superior measurement system

[tawny lava]

Only slightly if i remember correctly

[visual rover]

ROCS Shen Yang (DDG-923)
(former ww2 destroyer ex-USS Power DD-839)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Power_(DD-839)

[ivory ridge]

@rapid junco

[frozen kestrel]

that is such a fucking awesome artwork

[rapid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/hitori-bocchi-rubia-anime-deslumbrada-bocchi-rakita-sotoka-sotoka-bocchi-gif-23322455

[frozen kestrel]

Quick question: Which location would make the most sense for Iron Blood's headquarters to be placed in? Bremen, Kiel, or Hamburg?

[sullen canyon]

Why is #al-lore questions in #history again?

[frozen kestrel]

I keep forgetting that channel exists

Although, I probably should've asked where the Kriegsmarine's headquarters were instead

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wUCZzetxTY

[autumn sorrel]

Depend on where have the best communication infrastructure, supply depot and utilities

[dense bear]

As a person that lives in Germany it's probably Hamburg because Hamburg has the biggest port in Germany if I remember correctly but it could also be Kiel

I think the German navy is stationed in Kiel

[obtuse palm]

OTL OkM was headquartered in Berlin (Shell-Haus), but the fleet commander (ex. Lutjens) was based in Wilhelmshaven actually

[obtuse palm]

Currently German navy headquarters moved to Rostock

[fierce sparrow]

Oh! I see that yt full video of the "Greatest Ever" episode about tank.
Which is the UK's equivalent of the Top Ten by Military Channel(currently as American Heroes Channel).
With folks like the late Tom Clancy to the late Jacques Littlefield. Then there are good folks like Steven Zaloga to David Fletcher.

And as expected, the top 10 list is utter bruh... just as bad as the Top Ten by Military Channel.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/368244534578118658/1086722679190593758/BurningMurmory.gif

oh it's so not good...

[tawny lava]

Link?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sVaIuY6n_0

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erV34Mj8gX8

[lime scarab]

I’m not sure if this is a appropriate question to ask here but some asked this in general chat and now I’m curious what’s your guys thoughts on the subject

[steel rapids]

Propaganda

[lime scarab]

May I ask why you say that?

Because it doesn’t work or still under construction?

[steel rapids]

It have alot of problems even before sea trials

There was a fire

That damage it alot

Also having a carrier do show that you have alot of power but having a carrier doesn't mean that you are the strongest

The US has like 11 carrier if i right correct me if im wrong

Russia also has 1 carrier also

[lime scarab]

Yes USA has 11 aircraft carriers

[steel rapids]

Alr

[lime scarab]

Where you going to be make point of that with the USA carriers?

[shrewd pecan]

if you count LHDs

its 20 rn

[lime scarab]

Yes so basically @steel rapids so China’s new aircraft carrier is built very poorly or rushed to be developed if that’s what I’m understanding

[tawny lava]

As far as I'm concerned it's much more of a genuinely capable vessel than anything russia has or will have in it's arsenal in the future

Mostly because China (as far as we know) is nowhere near as corrupt to the core as Russia is, so it's much more likely sound thought was put into it

But the other hand we all know how much dictatorial states like propaganda, so it's probably a bit of both

[grave ravine]

Source?

[grave ravine]

When Fujian enters service (which is still a couple years out) it will be the most capable carrier not in USN service. China does legitimately need these capabilities if they want to fight the US to invade Taiwan, though Fujian alone is far from enough. As with all warships, it is also absolutely a propaganda piece and meant to be a symbol of the strength of the PLAN.

[tawny lava]

Assuming it's not going to be another Admiral Kutznetsov situation

Which is a real possibility in my book

Or it might not

[ivory ridge]

china is better in treating their navy

plus they have an actual navy budget

Russia's has been an afterthought since

well

1991

[tawny lava]

True

Which is why I'm not 100% calling it a bluff

But it's a non zero chance, china likes to fake many things about itself

[ivory ridge]

Like russia bult some capable ships even in the last 20 years but not counting subs and support vessels their biggest ship built was like

on the low end of modern frigates

tonnage wise

[tawny lava]

And even then they still operate literally a 100 year old support ship

Russia's is a sorry excuse of a military

[lime scarab]

Aren’t they trying to repair there only aircraft carrier to extend its service event though it should have been scarped a long time ago

[tawny lava]

China is not Russia however, sometimes the bullcrap they like to boast of ends up being true

[lime scarab]

Like there frigates

[tawny lava]

That thing has been a floating bucket of scrap ever since it was launched

I mean by the time it had it's aircaft complement fully loaded it was already over a decade old

[lime scarab]

If I remember correctly the Russian navy wanted to build a new aircraft carrier but it got cancelled because it was expensive I think

Also Newbtype7 would you say that chinas submarines are also dangerous as well?

[tawny lava]

I don't think it's been officially cancelled, because it was never approved in the first place

[lime scarab]

The government thought it was a waste of time or something

[tawny lava]

I can't say because i'm not very knowledgeable on submarines

[lime scarab]

Ok but it sounds like your knowledge in aircraft carriers and maybe other warships

[tawny lava]

I mean a little

I don't keep up that much with modern Weapons development

I like to learn about older subjects

[lime scarab]

Basically older warships

[tawny lava]

As far as i remember it never got past the proposal stage, it was shown off, considered, but nothing conclusive was said, cost is likely the main culprit

[tawny lava]

yeah

[lime scarab]

What kind of old warships do you like to talk about

[tawny lava]

Most of them really, i like anything made between 1900 and 1950

[lime scarab]

So like the South Dakota class from 1910

[tawny lava]

I don't know much about them but i think they're cool

They could have been the first dreadnoughts, i'm fairly sure they started building them before Dreadnought

hold on

wrong ship

For some reason i confused them with the South Carolinas

[wintry moat]

The age of Steam and Steel

[tawny lava]

yup

[grave ravine]

Currently China's submarine fleet is relatively small and relatively shitty

It is mostly diesel electric rather than nuclear boats, and includes a significant number of old and relatively limited boats

[desert agate]

This is wrong

The PLANs new carrier should not be underestimated in its capability

Many of those claiming that the ship was poorly designed or built can often trace their claims back to the salacious reporting of Indian tabloid/online media

And while it’s important to recognise that journalists may have access to certain information that isn’t available to everyone, Indian media is notoriously nationalistic and heavily biased

[runic ermine]

Reminds me of the claim of mass wave attacks. Everyone's saying it but not showing where they got the information

[desert agate]

A lot of that myth came out of Korea and exaggerated memoirs of post war German commanders

[runic ermine]

And enemy at the gates

[desert agate]

The PLAs submarine forces are heavily underinvested, the force lacks a modern quiet diesel electric submarine and operates a handful of SSNs that are by many estimates at least a generation behind the Wests
The primary striking power of the PLAs submarine force is its SSBN force

[desert agate]

Enemy at the gates was the product of the notoriously inaccurate era of 70s historiography
Almost all history books from the 70s were based on translated memoirs from either recently deceased or very old WW2 commanders many of whom just tried to cover their own asses in retrospect
It wasn’t until the last 20odd years that those historians were called into question and the myths they spread by uncritically believing Nazis were challenged by the historical community

There are some books from the era still held in high regard but the majority just spread lies

[tawny lava]

Do you think this was done in bad faith? Or just incompetence?

[runic ermine]

And in Ukraine one side says "wave atrack" whenever the other is attacking

[runic ermine]

Possibly both