history

[manic latch]

Could be NP UR plane ngl

[humble mulch]

Dummy thick. I like the front intake and have tricked myself into thinking it's just the mega evolved form of the Mig-15

Very big

[wintry moat]

Actually looks pretty like that

[cinder escarp]

Also the queen of the stovepipes

As for the giga mig-15 there is always good ole La-200

[wintry moat]

Doesn’t the La-200 have twin engines?

[cinder escarp]

Yep

[autumn sorrel]

I like it

[strong plank]

Babe wake up, the UK gov just published the 2021 F-35 incident inquiry

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/service-inquiry-into-the-loss-of-f-35b-lightning-zm152-bk-18

[cinder escarp]

This inquiry is a barrel of laughs

we don't fit the intake covers because they can blow off easy and get lost

instead we blow FOD (paint chips) into the engines

[finite gulch]

Rad af

Looks like a transformer

[cinder escarp]

apparently this is possible
good luck spotting that at night

Other funni bits - lockmart was too cheap to embroider "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" onto the covers, and applied them as decals. The decals come off, and become FOD.

[autumn sorrel]

Cutting cost at its best

[eternal veldt]

least nationalistic Japanese

[warm finch]

Rules the waves indeed

[autumn sorrel]

I maybe have a bit of reading difficulty but is this guy saying that bc other nation are bad, what Japan did is normal?

[eternal veldt]

The context is that a Japanese rising sun flag got censored

Guy starts malding

[autumn sorrel]

I can understand the censoring part, is it the "Rising sun" one?

[eternal veldt]

Yes.

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, censoring it is dumb

But go on into a rant that compare Japan warcrime to others action to downplay it is even dumber

[somber knoll]

surviving armor plate of Warspoot

[frozen kestrel]

Warspite deserved better

[subtle prawn]

The UK was in no position to be preserving her and she herself was not in good condition

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, Vanguard have even more chance to be keep than her

And UK museum budget at the time is… saying it is lacking is a gross understatement.

[royal harness]

@opaque sphinx I'm referring to when A6Ms encountered Spitfires in Singapore which quite comfortably outperformed the Zeros.

[grave ravine]

Ok looking at y'all's conversation, firstly we need to clarify are we talking about Zero or Reppu?

And secondly what do we mean by maneuverability

At stall speed Zero will turn rings around anything that isn't a biplane, and even some of those

But combat rarely happens at stall speed

And Zero had subpar control surface authority at high speeds

The really nice thing about Zero isn't it's ability to turn at low speeds, it's the fact it had absurd acceleration for an early war plane

Despite the garbage ass Japanese engines

Well yeah that's the only way they got the performance characteristics, both it's very good range and it's acceleration

By making it very light

Because as mentioned garbage engines

Yeah though F4U is years newer

And has a much much better engine

Double Wasp my beloved

I mean Zero was the best carrier fighter in 1941/42

No question

As much as I like the F4F

But F4F was also handicapped by a subpar engine for the period

And British carrier fighters were many shades of bad

I mean if you want pure power output you can Google that

Off the top of my head I think it was Wasp Major

Though it gets that from sheer size

Well there you go

An even more ridiculously large engine

They did put Wasp Major in a Corsair, but I doubt the XR-7755 would fit

[desert agate]

I would note that the RAAFs Spitfires routinely outperformed Zeroes above Darwin, Rabaul, New Guinea and other territories

And RAAF Kitty Hawks also performed quite well especially above New Guinea

The RAAF is notably the largest Allied air combatant in the South Pacific, at least from land for a good chunk of the war, at least in terms of fighter strength

Until Guadalcanal, the Americans had a few kitty hawks and not much more, and the cactus air force was still no more than a few squadrons at peak strength
And given how well the RAAF did perform against Japan, at least after Australia had recovered from the initial blows

[warm finch]

It´s a good thing to mention that historically speaking, energy fighters beat turn fighters in most situations with the right tactics.

[desert agate]

The RAAF had 19 squadrons deployed in North Africa and at home (over 200 aircraft and a 50% reserve), in June 41, and by March 42, after most of the squadrons in Africa had been withdrawn would expand rapidly to 35 squadrons just 18-24 months later, ending the war with 51 squadrons scattered throughout SWPA, and an additional 16 squadrons in Europe

Was the world's 4th largest air force by VJ day

The RAAF would sustain most of its casualties in Europe in spite of keeping a majority of its forces in SWPA

[warm finch]

Yes, you can see this hilarious thing in the Pacific war where the Americans realize how to fight the fast turning Japanese aircraft and start just absolutely dominating most fighter-fighter engagements.

[desert agate]

I need to find more in depth RAAF statistics in SWPA but alas, sleepy

[gloomy current]

I was under the impression the zeroes both outclimbed and outturned early war American carrier fighters, or was that not right

[autumn sorrel]

Early one, yes. It lead to Thatch tactic to help US fighters to mitigate Zero superiority with team work

[warm finch]

They outturned them but not necessarily outclimbed. The Americans made sure to never get into a situation where the former would not be a problem with things like the Thach Weave as Arch said. Most later American fighters had very good high speed handling which is why they used Boom and Zoom.

[maiden citrus]

they also didn't commit suicide by going fast, and didn't die immediately to a hand gun, which is probably more important than a human jogging speed amount of max speed difference

hence why wildcats had a positive k/d ratio for the entire war on zeroes

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1690354361770168320

[manic latch]

Happy launch day Gremy

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1690500128786796544

[wintry moat]

Jesus

do Kennedys die normally?

[rapid junco]

V-3?

[subtle prawn]

Oh, they made a typo

It's actually V2

[fluid granite]

well we can hope next one does

[grave ravine]

Zero out climbed F4F significantly, that's a part of why they were so dangerous

[manic latch]

@tough quail Leonid Brezhnev reading the Pravda newspaper, 1970s

[rapid junco]

I need to search for it
But i remember that there's an edition of the A Galera magazine that the cover is Getúlio Vargas reading an edition of said magazine

[subtle prawn]

https://fxtwitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1690537720559411200

[warm finch]

A lot of factors to that. A zero is almost always outturning a Wildcat. But it may not outclimb a F4F in the right circumstances. Hence why I didn't overgeneralize.

[grave ravine]

So new French ships

of the 6 ships being added, three were completed

The cruiser Guichen is a Capitani Romani class destroyer given to the French as war reparations

[subtle prawn]

Nope, incomplete De Grasse-class cruiser since she has triple turrets

[grave ravine]

oh huh

[subtle prawn]

She was cancelled

[grave ravine]

ah

I wasn't paying attention to the artwork

in that case there are only two ships that were completed, Suffren and Kersaint

Suffren was the lead ship of her class of treaty 8" cruisers

they were based on the Dusquene class but sacrificed 2kts of speed for improved armor

nevertheless, their armor was still fairly light for a treaty cruiser

the destroyer Kersaint was a Vaquelin class contre-torpilleur (though they were classed as cruisers under LNT, the French navy treated them as destroyers)

[subtle prawn]

It seems they're bent on trying to not add any of their post-war ships

[grave ravine]

yeah, I was a little surprised to see Lyon

[manic latch]

Well if they get Lyon. Soviets can get Izmails

Germans can get the uhh

Mecklenburg

Smh like that name

[grave ravine]

I had kind of figured we were more likely to get a Normandie or Courbet than Lyon

[manic latch]

Yeah Lyon before Normandie is weird

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Caracciolo-class_battleship

I also desire this to honor Undef

[grave ravine]

Mackensen?

[manic latch]

That I guess

[eternal veldt]

Normandie, like Flandre, shares a slight headache of sharing name with the Alsace and Richelieu class

The only candidate that doesnt is Languedoc

Might as well not cross that bridge until needed

[subtle prawn]

It still does kind of leave the question for which design they would use for Alsace proper here

[eternal veldt]

I mean, the 45k ton design is generally accepted to be the "super battleship" variant

So no reason to not pick it when you don't have infrastructure problems

[ornate wind]

What are some post war French ships anyways?

[subtle prawn]

T47 and T53 class destroyers, JB retrofit, and anti-air cruisers De Grasse and Colbert

And maybe a few CVLs that were transferred to them if they cared enough

[eternal veldt]

We'd have to dig into the CVLs sooner or later

France just depleted their homemade CV inventory

[ornate wind]

Idk about the destroyers tbh, seems a bit too far after ww2

[subtle prawn]

"Too far after WW2" clearly didn't stop them from adding the 57mm AA gun as well as the Westland Wyvern into the game

[ornate wind]

That’s equipment though

[subtle prawn]

And the 57mm AA gun is the one they use

[ornate wind]

Like just because we have missiles doesn’t mean we can have 1970s ships right?

[eternal veldt]

We kinda have those with the retrofitted An Shans...

[ornate wind]

I guess the way I thought about it was that keel laid during or slightly after ww2 would fly.

So like there’s room for Des Moines, Worcester and Midway, but 10 years seems kind of a stretch.

[subtle prawn]

They don't have many SSR-worthy left options so they will have to bite the bullet eventually

[manic latch]

We don't have any post war laid down ships

[ornate wind]

I think there are enough that you don’t have to dig that deep

Especially regarding destroyers, there’s still mogadors

[eternal veldt]

France still has enough capital ships to go around

just not carriers

[grave ravine]

and the Centaurs

[manic latch]

Centaurs are laid down before ww2

[manic latch]

Read

Or during

[ornate wind]

Speaking of, did the British ever use non asw Skyraiders?

[subtle prawn]

They used AEW Skyraiders

[manic latch]

The Royal Navy acquired 50 AD-4W early warning aircraft in 1951 through the Military Assistance Program

So they only used early warning

[ornate wind]

MB, that’s what I meant

So what exactly is that skill on Albion?

The Skyraiders attack one

[chilly flower]

AEW

[ornate wind]

Ah

[grave ravine]

AEW detects subs lol

[manic latch]

Manjuu moment

[ornate wind]

Okay that might be where I made my mistake

Lmao

[manic latch]

Should have give more evasion

[somber knoll]

An Shan has entered the chat

[somber knoll]

Only Painleve left yeah

[grave ravine]

coming in the next event

[somber knoll]

oof

[grave ravine]

I mean it is a france event

[ornate wind]

I mean if you want to go back to that, that’s a retrofit, it’s like how I can see SCB125 upgrade for Essex class being plausible

But not like a forrestal

[manic latch]

She is a gnevny class

Still not post war laid down

[grave ravine]

there was an escort carrier France got

[manic latch]

Colossus

[grave ravine]

near the end of WW2

[manic latch]

Hms Colossus

[somber knoll]

yeah, and the upgrades were the 60s so

[manic latch]

So

It's still not a post war laid down ship

[grave ravine]

no not Colossus

[ornate wind]

Yes but it was for a 1940s ship

[grave ravine]

Biter

[eternal veldt]

France got two CVLs

[grave ravine]

France commissioned Dixmunde before the war ended

[eternal veldt]

Arromanches, Ex-Colossus
La Fayette, Ex-Langley CVL-27

Neither are ideal

[ornate wind]

Lmao

MN was the real BB coper

[eternal veldt]

Not every nation needs a carrier

you can say that with 20/20 hindsight, sure

[grave ravine]

Painleve was deprioritized because surely the Brits would have them covered for carriers

[eternal veldt]

The Richelieus are on the urgently needed list

because, after lobbying France for a few years not to build them because "muh appeasement"

war is on their doorstep, and they needed a ship to handle Bismarck, because their KGVs are not yet ready

so "pls build Richelieu faster"

[somber knoll]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/534621810306580500/1063538951303991426/RichelieuPat-1.gif

[grave ravine]

Alsace bumped Painleve on the to be built after Richelieus and Joffre list

[eternal veldt]

Well yea, they got intel Germany was building 16" BBs

[manic latch]

Alsace would be absolute unit when teamed up with Lion

[eternal veldt]

Just grossly underestimated their tonnage

[manic latch]

Soyuz would be stuck on Leningrad with Mines

[eternal veldt]

I mean ultimately France was sold on the triple x 3

not quad x 3

[manic latch]

Cringe

[eternal veldt]

so about on par with Lion

[somber knoll]

when eventually they got bamboozled.

[subtle prawn]

They did feel it was better than all known battleships under construction in my book tho

[eternal veldt]

It was, but a bit big of a jump - It'd be logical following the first 2 40ks, imo

Toss them into the next tranche or something

[manic latch]

Soviets: Big jump huh

Soyuz would be staying around 40ks if it wasn't for Yamato rumours

[eternal veldt]

maybe don't purge your naval officers

and fucking up the TDS of Soyuz so hard

[manic latch]

ITS YAMATO'S FAULT

[somber knoll]

[manic latch]

It pushed her over 50k tons

[manic latch]

Tds still worked, but it was realized later American style is better than Italian

[grave ravine]

9 15s isnt going to be better than stuff like Sodaks and Iowas and all

[somber knoll]

Don't they consider one with one of the Alsace?

[grave ravine]

as well as the mysterious "16 inch" battleship Japan was building

[eternal veldt]

Depth is about all it got going

[somber knoll]

but like, with the 380s

[subtle prawn]

When I say that I mean the Type 3 version, not the type 1

[eternal veldt]

Pretty sure the Ansaldo officials consider the soviet homemade pugliese grossly inferior

[manic latch]

Well Italy refused to sell the details

So Soviet spies did their thing

Likely not all the blueprints tho

So it feels off compared to original

[eternal veldt]

I mean, they gave you conventional TDS on the export design

[manic latch]

Sang's work

[eternal veldt]

just dogshit armour scheme

[grave ravine]

did they decide on which version they were going with?

[eternal veldt]

Type 1 was the one officially chosen as it was that "two 40k ton BBs" were ordered

Type 3 was 45k tons

Type 2 was ruled out because it adds a fourth major caliber to the navy whereas most had 2~3

[manic latch]

What do you mean +20 plates to give you equal protection against 406mm AP at every angle is bad

[grave ravine]

ok thats what I thought

I just realized I misread what your earlier post was

[eternal veldt]

No doubt the Type 3 is the superlative version, though

[manic latch]

23Bis great because of bug fixes it makes

Belt armor is single 380mm (or 375mm should check)
TDS is single West Virginia style (I think it was patented from US)

Better secondary layout, more 100mm

[eternal veldt]

Though, IIRC someone here raised a concern with how high the secondary 152mm is

double superfiring over Turret #2 sounds quite top heavy

[manic latch]

Yamato: So?

[eternal veldt]

and how much did Yamato weigh again

[manic latch]

70k

[somber knoll]

btw, WoWS Alsauce was the type 1, wasn't she?

[eternal veldt]

Type 3

Flandre is a pretend-type-1

[somber knoll]

ah

I was hoping that Manjuu will do their own thing and making her Type 2

which is the only plausible UR candidate imo

[eternal veldt]

I mean

take Flandre

make her grow up a bit

(just slap 406 instead of 380)

that's Type 2

[somber knoll]

that's what I mean

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/479676955411873802/873647501310316544/champlode.gif

[peak surge]

Imagine Yostar adding the Montana class battleships

(This is USS New Hampshire)

[wintry moat]

Yes

American UR

[thorn trail]

eh EU has more UR candidates

[peak surge]

Well The US Navy has had plenty of ships that never truly left certain phases. Either the drawing board or never completely built. Best examples are the rest of the Essex Class and USS Kentucky and USS Illinois which were laid down but canceled

[subtle prawn]

I'd rather they have another actually completed UR first before a paper one

[peak surge]

Also this is a meme I found which I feel Long Island would not be happy

(The real accident)

[dreamy vector]

That is a?

Wildcat?

[peak surge]

(The meme)

[peak surge]

It's a Buffalo)

[dreamy vector]

Ah right

Buffalo

Hard time making it out

[peak surge]

Well that photo has a meme as you can see

Here is another ship I'd like to see in Azur lane.

U-505 which is the only U-boat captured by the U.S.A (which was called USS Nemo)

[strong plank]

mate we can’t even get our real ships never mind our paper ones

[peak surge]

Who knows. They might... it's up to Yostar

[strong plank]

Yostar didn’t even give us the real CV-10 and CV-12 so uh

my confidence is not what you would call sky-high

[peak surge]

You mean the ships that were originally going to be CV-10 and CV-12

[strong plank]

No I mean CV-10 and CV-12

those ships don’t have kansen forms, like canonically

[dreamy vector]

Bismarck zwei

[strong plank]

you mean Rodney and KGV’s target practice?

[dreamy vector]

[eternal veldt]

botched landing, you say?...

[peak surge]

Ouch.... which carrier is this

[eternal veldt]

USS Charger, CVE-30

[peak surge]

Again just ouch...

[eternal veldt]

ah, but that isn't the only one!

[dreamy vector]

What about

Bismarck sea

[eternal veldt]

The battle itself is interesting

Still one of the more iconic pictures - and one of the closest pictures of an enemy warship I can think of.

[peak surge]

One ship they need to add to Azur lane is this little bastard of a Destroyer. USS Johnston DD-557

[dreamy vector]

As well as bismarck sea

[blissful sluice]

“Sir I think they missed a bit ”

[warm finch]

So fun fact: This is actually why the first arresting wire is only reserved for emergencies, because if the pilot missed like this it would have potential to do much more damage than on the second or third wire.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRlx5n7wmx8

[manic latch]

US brief Future Soldier uniform from 1959

[warm finch]

Ah yes the late 50s early 60s period, a breeding ground for wacky ideas.

[warm finch]

Oh do not worry Iam just babbling...

[random trench]

square

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/railmaps/status/1690707084915183618?s=20

Railmaps on Twitter

It’s quite remarkable that fully a century after completion of electrification of Melbourne’s suburban rail network in 1923, painted signs on the walls at Flinders Street station denoting the stopping locations for DDE class suburban steam locomotives are still clearly visible.

Twitter · Aug 13, 2023, 12:49 PM

[autumn sorrel]

Middle Eastern op names

[warm finch]

Soviet Operation names:
-a planet
-a guy
-whatever the general saw in a book I guess

[manic latch]

The sail of Project 661 Anchar/Papa-class nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine K-222, the fastest submarine ever built, to be preserved as a memorial in Primorsky Park in Severodvinsk.

On December 18, 1970 she reached underwater speed of 44.7 knots (82.8 km/h, or 51.4 mph). In order to reach this speed, safety protection for the steam turbines was turned off and switched to manual operation mode

[digital mantle]

Which ships, IRL, historically used the Twin 40mm Bofor “Hazemeyer” AA Gun Mount?

Anyone? I’m tryna organize my Shipgirls’ equipment by historically-accurate load-out…

[autumn sorrel]

HMS

Depend on theater, available equipment and the time

[subtle prawn]

HNLMS Isaac Sweers

[grave ravine]

British destroyers are the only ships in game that maybe would have it, but you would have to check on a case by case basis if the given ship received it during upgrades.

[digital mantle]

Thank you!

[grave ravine]

Generally it was preferred to use normal RPC mounts on larger ships because they could fit separate directors for the guns

We don't yet have in game any of the later destroyer flotillas that were built with Hazemeyer

Hazemeyer was originally a Dutch mount, but we do not have any Dutch ships in game

[autumn sorrel]

Yet

I still waiting for that proto dutch BC

[desert agate]

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-future-of-the-rans-surface-combatant-force/

RAN had ceased to be sustainable long ago. That’s what happens when accountants treat trained and skilled people as an expense, and not as an asset.

[warm finch]

RAN ceased to be sustainable when they put a cope slope on their ship as if they wanted it to become a lightning carrier, only to forget to heat proof the deck.

[desert agate]

That isn't at all what happened

Like

In the slightest

There's literally nothing about that statement that isn't wrong

Firstly RAN never put the ski jump on, Navantia did, and in an effort to keep costs down, RAN didn't bother to remove it (it doesn't actually reduce the usable deck space afaik)

There was a faint hope that the slope would be maintained in mind of future F-35 operations, but that was never the primary reason, finances were

Secondly, the flight deck not only doesn't need to be heat proofed (the USN uses removable pads on deck for some of their ships to facilitate F-35b operations), we don't actually know what RAN did to the deck

Given how RAN was unwilling to remove the ski jump on the Canberra's, I find it hard to believe they went to significant effort to change the flight deck and remove the features the original Juan Carlos I design had in regards to its own heat resistant deck

The issue in question is in fact solely whether RAN changed the structural integrity of the below deck areas which make landing operations particularly stressful on the ship, which is classified information

The Canberra's are also notably not surface combatants which makes them irrelevant to this discussion

[somber knoll]

if anything, you'll find some British ships that are fitted with the STAAG Bofors mount

[somber knoll]

so basically the classic engineers vs accountants situation

[wintry moat]

RAN is who?

Ok

I thought so, but San Juan as a name threw me off

[grave ravine]

not many of those either

STAAG was similarly used primarily on smaller ships

and Britain hasn't had their newer destroyers added to game

the only ship I can think of that mounted STAAG as built in game is Vanguard, and she had a single STAAG mount on B-turret, otherwise her light AA was sextuple bofors mounts

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuT5gCKvf0g

[peak surge]

If they ever add in USS Midway

Yep. The time it dropped a toilet bomb on Veitnam

[grave ravine]

yeah lol, only the two M-class destroyers were laid down during the war, and even they are a repeat of a prewar class ordered before the war started

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/iIZzExeV278

[supple sandal]

But why

[peak surge]

There is plenty of stories on it. Originally the toilet was going to be thrown off the ships but the air officer decided to turn it into a bomb. So they gave it a some tail fins, a detonation trigger, and filled it up with Napalm. The funny thing is that they had to hide this from the tower so they wouldn't see the thing they were doing. The "Toilet Bomb" was dropped to celebrate 6000lbs of bombs dropped on North Vietnam

[supple sandal]

War, goofy and horrifying

Imagine being the guy getting killed by a fucking toilet

Well, filled with napalm

[warm finch]

It´s a severely watered down version as you yourself later point out... my statement is inaccurate, not completely wrong.

The cope slope on the Juan carlos is to accomodate the Harrier, a VSTOL like the F-35. And what I wrote says that the cope slope is there for it to be a lightning carrier. Making the statement inaccurate, but not completely wrong. And the "removable pads" bit... isn´t that a form of heat proofing?

[tough quail]

remember to feed ur halos

before they consume the smaller helicopters around them

[manic latch]

Fren

[shrewd pecan]

a new hope

[warm finch]

Even though Russian carrier aviation is a PoS I can´t deny it looks good.

[deep apex]

Only from the front though.

[warm finch]

Yeah... until the flanker falls off the deck

[deep apex]

Ye

[eternal veldt]

Rows of Victory Ships, 1951

[maiden citrus]

[peak surge]

If only this was one of Shangri-la's lines.... how she launched a P-51 Mustang from her flight deck

But the plan didn't go all the way through

[manic latch]

Ulyanovsk...

[shrewd pecan]

not like Russia could of afforded her in the first place

[chilly flower]

#history message
earlier post for the Sea Horse, more photos below

https://www.vintagewings.ca/stories/revenge-of-the-shang
and the article they're from

Also trialed the PBJ for Carrier use and one of the F7F prototypes on the same day, you can find them in there

The one and only North American P-51 Seahorse is seen from Shangri-La’s island superstructure as she rolls down the deck during one of its launches. We can tell it is in the launch as its tail wheel is just rising off the deck and the arresting wires have all been slackened so that the fighter can roll over them. The waist elevator, see at top right is just abeam the island, putting the Seahorse about halfway down the 888-foot-long deck. Of Elder’s experience with the P-51 Seahorse, aviation writer, artist and historian Gaëtan Marie writes: “During the months of September and October 1944, Lt. Elder made nearly 150 simulated launches and landings with the ETF-51D. Sufficient data concerning the Mustang’s low speed handling had to be gathered before carrier trials could begin. The Mustang’s laminar-flow wing made for little drag and high speed but was relatively inefficient at low speed, resulting in a high stall speed. As the arrestor cables could not be engaged at more than 90 mph, Elder reported that “from the start, it was obvious to everyone that the margin between the stall speed of the aircraft (82 mph) and the speed imposed by the arrestor gear (90 mph) was very limited.” ” Photo: US Navy

[manic latch]

Well it was for Soviets

[shrewd pecan]

and the Soviets wouldn't of lasted either

[manic latch]

Scrapping of Ulyanovsk

[haughty osprey]

What being broke and incapable of surface warfare does to a mfer

[manic latch]

What literally collapse of your country does to a nation*

Also can you explain the mental gymnastics of scrapping a supercarrier because nation is collapsed so it cannot be afforded= incapable of surface warfare

[haughty osprey]

Oh I'm not denying Soviet collapse fucked the project.

But the incompetence of the Soviet Navy's surface component as a general trend still holds.

Besides, Ulyanovsk's design wasn't exactly the cutting edge of supercarrier development.

[manic latch]

It was the second carrier class of Soviet Union so naturally it wasn't superior to US designs who had decades of experience

@tough quail @shrewd pecan BTR-82A

Is it me or

It's actually a very good improvement

It has more or less normal protection against 12.7 mm, a lining, a comfortable sitting compartment, seats with mine protection. But lost the ability to swim.

[autumn sorrel]

That doesn’t look like 82A to me

[manic latch]

It's a massive change

Hell I would have given it new number

[autumn sorrel]

Look like a heavily modified 87

[quasi ridge]

I liked waterloo, but it doesnt really match up to the real battle with 140k men each

Kind of very chatic battle with lines

[cinder escarp]

It basically is 87v2. But ask VPK...

[warm finch]

... did you just agree with him?

[manic latch]

Yes?

Orel supercarrier design was the more advanced design

Soviets wanted something more cheaper thus Ulyanovsk's design with slopes

[warm finch]

More advanced design... more expensive... basically just means soviet union collapses earlier

[manic latch]

Yes

Orel would have only catapults

While Ulyanovsk had it for Awacs but not for main bow

[warm finch]

Which is lowkey not that great of an idea... I mean, I kinda like the "cope slope and catapult" combo, which from my limited understanding would actually be better than just one of either. And the Ulyanovsk taking a half measure with both but not combining them is... just kinda meh

[shrewd pecan]

uparmored chally 2

[manic latch]

@tough quail

Look ye mighty and despair

Abrams gonna get this as well

[shrewd pecan]

cage armor abrams with a cope cage

[tough quail]

i mean

goofy roof aside

slat armor abrams would look sick

like everything else with slats

[manic latch]

No

[tough quail]

thats el cheapo cage

i mean like

or just the back of every T-90M ever

[spring briar]

do I want to walk into this convo?

[spring briar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlSH6n37ts&t=3s

[tough quail]

i dont think theres anything controversial about "slat armor looks cool"

im not claiming its super good or anything

[spring briar]

I saw cages
and didn't want to start shit

[warm finch]

Knowing the british love of cheap shit, Iam proud they didn´t do this themselves (please for the love of god tell me this is not a currently british chally)

[tough quail]

no it's from Mysterious Eastern European Events

because they apparently did unironically send those without TES

[warm finch]

I fucking hate eastern refurbishment culture

[manic latch]

Yeee

I prefer the nets tho

[peak surge]

We need the Texan.... https://youtu.be/oAL0iIw-I8Q

[manic latch]

They are like fishnet socks

[manic latch]

This thing will be cancer in War thunder

12 Kornet to your face

Tho latest atgm mechanic nerf might change things

[shrewd pecan]

assuming it ever comes

Since Russia already has like

The most cancerous atgm carriers in game

[shrewd pecan]

yeah mr no ammo detonation despite having a MPAT round directly impact it’s ATGMs

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/08/15/u-s-flight-iii-destroyer-multiyear-deal-grows-to-10-ships-3-hulls-awarded-in-fy-2023

[peak surge]

Fletcher Class 2.0

[tough quail]

not really

[warm finch]

We´re kinda getting there.

I mean what other navy has 72 of the same major surface combatant class in active service?

[manic latch]

https://www.naval-technology.com/news/uss-wichita-gets-new-engine-after-just-four-years-service/

Oh God they will turn to A-10 of Navy

Navy doesn't want these

[warm finch]

The parallel is actually eerie

[strong plank]

Eh, I could see them having their niche

not every mission needs an arleigh burke or a Ticonderoga, so I could see them help free up more capable ships for more pressing assignments

[warm finch]

From my (as I always say) limited understanding, that´s what the LCSes were supposed to do, but they were ultimately too small and too specialised to be usable.

[manic latch]

But that alreay exists

Constellation class frigates are mainly for that

Doing jobs Burke can't bother

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQknH-rVAvU

[strong plank]

Yeah but there aren’t any constellations yet

[tough quail]

yeah but like

fletchers were cutting edge uber destroyers when they were built at warp speed

burkes are like

"we want to build other shit but congress wont let us because we cant get rid of a carrier"

[rapid junco]

I always thought the A-10 were more liked and successful
Well, i know very little about them anyways

[warm finch]

...what other shit? The Zumwalts?

[tough quail]

or the fucktrillion other cruiser/destroyer projects that have been curtailed, delayed or cancelled

or just normal frigates that are good

[chilly osprey]

Burke still gets built because the navy had no other solid area AAW design ready to build after the Zumwalts got cut down.

[tough quail]

the usn is just kind of forced to slog through molasses

[chilly osprey]

The other major AAW designs under study in that era were all 'cruiser' designs too massive to be affordable, as has been the case with every cruiser design since the 1970s.

Always worth remembering that in the late 90s and early 00s the USN was planning to use the Zumwalt-class to replace the VLS Sprucans, CG(X) or something like it to replace the Tico's, and a Burke replacement wasn't something they thought they had to worry about for another couple decades.

Lo and behold the cruiser program failed because the cruiser is long dead as a viable ship type, the Zumies were pointless due to the reduced ASW threat and the apparent future AAW threat, and the USN really did not have much in the way of better options other than 'restart Burke production'

And to be honest given what the Flight IIA TI & III are like they're still the premier type of destroyer under mass production in the world, save perhaps for the Type 055, but those are production at a much slower rate.

[maiden citrus]

slow golf clap

informative and also gets the point across better than I would have

[strong plank]

Burke flight III is still a capable platform

[maiden citrus]

'capable' is a way of putting it yes

[strong plank]

It’s just that the Burke class is hitting the ceiling in how far it can be built upon

[chilly osprey]

Oh, of that there's no debate

That's why DDG(X) is a thing

Since Flight III is basically the maximum they can flog out of the hull

[strong plank]

The A-10 is pretty popular among the ground troops

[deep apex]

They aren't considered the brightest for a reason

[strong plank]

Well its actually for understandable reasons

[warm finch]

The British army:
The Marines:

[deep apex]

Marines don't count

[strong plank]

You can get an F-16 or an F-35 to come and plink a bomb where you need it

[deep apex]

Kidding

[warm finch]

True, they´ve transcended humanity

[strong plank]

but if you’re on the ground, you’re generally not gonna see the aircraft that’s just saved your ass

unless it’s an A-10

[warm finch]

In which case you´re gonna hear it

[strong plank]

With the zumwalts,

I keep wondering if Congress and the navy killed the concept a tad too soon

Given the conversations being had about survivability in contested environments

I’d have to imagine the ability to deliver naval gunfire support in a contested area would come in handy in a cross-strait scenario

[warm finch]

The thing with the Zumwalts, they´re unsustainable. The average LRLAP round costs over 400 thousand dollars. That´s a million every 3 round burst!

And even arguing that the navy stopped procuring those. A Burke costs less than half of a Zumwalt at a much more relevant specialization as well as 16 more VLS cells.

[manic latch]

1. that happened after cancelation of the class

2. it was 800k-1 million

[warm finch]

...and? Are you trying to correct me or add information?

[manic latch]

Both

[warm finch]

Well FY2015 puts the purchase of 150 at an individual cost at 476k

[strong plank]

Yeah the LRLAP ammo costs went up because the order was downsized from 40 ships to like

[warm finch]

And even then, that doesn´t change the current cost.

[strong plank]

whatever it was before being reduced to 3

at that point each shell cost roughly the same as a tomahawk

[manic latch]

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2023/08/15/fire-breaks-out-aboard-uss-winston-s-churchill-in-florida/

[warm finch]

I think 23, then 7, then 2, then to 3 because they wanted to keep up shipbuilding capacity at one shipyard

[strong plank]

well no

It was 3 because they had already authorized and started 3

It’ll be interesting to see what the hypersonic upgrade brings

[warm finch]

,,On 19 August 2008, Secretary Winter said that a third Zumwalt would be built at Bath Iron Works, citing concerns about maintaining shipbuilding capacity. House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee Chairman John Murtha said on 23 September 2008 that he had agreed to partial funding of the third DDG-1000 in the 2009 Defense authorization bill." Citing Wikipedia because it´s 3 in the morning and Iam not feeling like reading a 3k word article on forbes or somewhere

[strong plank]

The AGS issues aside the zumwalts are still like

pretty damn decent

[warm finch]

Oh do not get me wrong, they´ll get the job done.

[manic latch]

Most expensive surface Combatant

If they didn't the job done then well

[strong plank]

a lot of the tech they introduced is laying the groundwork for future surface combatant designs

[warm finch]

If you put an order of 200 thousand dollars for 10 luxury cars but only end up making 4 that will naturally increase the per-car cost. This is honestly nothing new in yank procurement

Looking at you Northrop

[manic latch]

It was always going to be more expensive than Burke no matter what you do tho

It's bigger and younger

[subtle prawn]

From what I've read recently, they could have made the AGS fire other rounds like the regular ones, but they chose not to in the end

[manic latch]

For 250 million $ yes

[warm finch]

I can count.

[strong plank]

Clearly the solution is to stick a VPM where the guns would’ve been

[warm finch]

Just put a cannibalized CIWS there like the other guy does!

[strong plank]

Nah that fucks up the stealth

[warm finch]

Oh trust me if I was being serious you wouldn´t see me being that on the nose about it

[strong plank]

anyway

best case, the zumms end up serving pretty well as they’re able to accommodate newer technology

worst case, they end up walking so future classes can run

[warm finch]

The F-22 of ship design I reckon

[strong plank]

not really a good comparison

[autumn sorrel]

F-22 work

Zum doesn't

[strong plank]

the F-22’s lack of engagements is a testament to its capabilities and its reputation

also uhhh

The zums work

[autumn sorrel]

As a test bed, kinda. As a viable combat platform, doubtful

[strong plank]

The AGS might not be operational

But they still have like

80 VLS cells

[manic latch]

It does have Mk57 vls and very good ASW technology

Damn guns are taking good ammount of potential vls slot tho

[warm finch]

I disagree, but I don´t think it really matters that much.

[strong plank]

I mean if you wanted to go all in on the meme

replace the AGS’ spot with more VLS

Make it a full on arsenal DDG

[manic latch]

B-2* both production got ruined by cost cuts

[autumn sorrel]

USN require some of their ship to have shore bombardment capabilities, they are get to the point that I think getting ol 8inch is more reasonable

[strong plank]

Not ‘some of’

[autumn sorrel]

New gun and ammo is good but jessus, the cost

[strong plank]

Shore bombardment was what zumwalt was designed for

[warm finch]

The B-2 didn´t really provide us with many new concepts. JDAMs were already here, stand-off weaponry can be carried by B-52s, it´s not as much a testbed as it is the fruit of the test beds.

[manic latch]

6 second reload 155mm gives her equal to 6 m777 on land

So 1 Zumwalt equals 12 m777 support

[strong plank]

Remember, the zums’ VLS are on the edges of the decks

[autumn sorrel]

You want to fly B-52, over contested air space?

[strong plank]

So if the guns are removed

that space is free real estate

[warm finch]

I value my life.

So no

[manic latch]

B-52 had horrible experience in Vietnam with losses, B-2 wouldn't have those there

Unless it flied low enough for 37mm

Some reason

[warm finch]

The F-117 already did that though? As in, could strike installations deep behind enemy territory

[autumn sorrel]

B-52 survival in Vietnam depend heavily on ECM, Wild Weasel action and SEADs.

[manic latch]

Now compare their range and bomb load

[warm finch]

I think you just agreed with me?

[strong plank]

F-117 didn’t have the range necessary

[manic latch]

USE LOGIC CHIEF

[warm finch]

Range isn´t a concept though.

[strong plank]

Plus the F-117 was used for different mission types

As it was one of the first aircraft in the USAF’s arsenal that could drop pgms

[manic latch]

B-2 being flying wing is the main reason it gives her amazing range

[autumn sorrel]

100 and 130mm AA gun in Vietnam was guied by S-75 radar installations

[warm finch]

Can you read? I literally said that the concept is nothing new. That the sort-of testbeds like the F-117 and B-52 showed the concept would work.

[strong plank]

I wouldn’t call the B-52 a testbed

Nor the F-117

[warm finch]

That´s why I said sort-of

In relation to the B-2, they are testbeds for the weaponry and some of the concepts.

[strong plank]

Testbed implies technology being tested on a platform that is ultimately intended to be fielded by something else

you’re talking about just

incremental improvements in technology

[warm finch]

Kinda?

[shrewd pecan]

The B-52 still serves a important role

[warm finch]

I know

[shrewd pecan]

and the F-117 very much wasn’t experimental

[warm finch]

That´s not what I meant

[shrewd pecan]

Also the F-117 & B-2 fundamentally served different roles

[warm finch]

I never said it was experimental. I didn´t mean that those two were built to prove the B-2 or some other concept could work. Iam saying they were given a target that was ultimately incorporated into the B-2s list of capabilities.

[shrewd pecan]

The B-2 was made primarily for the nuclear strike role

While the F-117 was primarily intended to be conventional in nature

[autumn sorrel]

Krem, KS-19 is such a sexy gun

[warm finch]

I know, but it did utilize JDAMs to strike certain installations like the Nighthawk would

[frozen kestrel]

F-117 really looks like an attempt at an alien stealth fighter made in the GoldSource engine

(GoldSource being the engine for the original Half-Life)

[autumn sorrel]

I mean, it would be a waste if it doesn't have the normal bombing capability

[autumn sorrel]

Either you get smooth and elegant angle like B-2 or straight down murder hole straight and sharp angle of Nighthawk

[warm finch]

(You hearing this B-58?)

[frozen kestrel]

Kinda looks like someone tried to make a low poly boomerang in Blender and fucked up the vertices

[frozen kestrel]

Yes

[warm finch]

I feel like the YF-23 was an unused enemy design for Half Life 2 lol

[frozen kestrel]

The timeline would line up

[autumn sorrel]

Krem, what is Project 215? Look like upgrade Osa but I can't find anymore info than a pic on Pinterest

[autumn sorrel]

Wake up guys, new Drach video, about dutch sub

Hooray

[manic latch]

What's that

[autumn sorrel]

Let me dm you

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY7fCNj4al0

[primal wave]

Do we know what gun Guichen had historically?

Is this the Guichen we're getting?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_cruiser_Scipione_Africano

[eternal veldt]

No. We are getting the De Grasse class cruiser, armed with a 152mm gun similar to the La Galissonieres.

The slated names for the class are De Grasse, Chateaurenault and Guichen. Of the three, only De Grasse would be completed post-war, in a greatly altered configuration.

[primal wave]

Okay thanks!

I think it's cool how they stay historically accurate on a waifu collector game.

[eternal veldt]

Yes and no, somewhat.

Some characters got the names, but I feel the design don't match up to them.

and #al-lore is anything but historically accurate.

[strong plank]

historically accurate

Northampton 2

Lol, lmao

[junior trench]

whatcha mean

she was og laid down as an Oregon City class

mod of Balti

[strong plank]

Sure, for a year

But she wasn’t finished as one

[junior trench]

not particularly relevant

a ship being completed differently, when there's other ships of the class which actually existed, is pretty different from the swarm of Deutsche Papierschiffe

[manic latch]

@shrewd pecan

[frozen kestrel]

Aren't F-15's really good at notching missiles?

[manic latch]

Stealth sacrifice missile capability

And F-15 flies much faster and higher which is also better for the missile

While 35 has stealth and superior radar

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3bCms1yeM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1691830658799374634

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1956, the "Battle of Palmdale" occurred when the U.S. Air Force attempted to shoot down a runaway Navy F6F-5K Hellcat drone. USAF pilots fired 208 rockets without scoring a hit, instead starting fires that burned 1,000 acres. The drone eventually ran out of fuel and crashed.

Likes

236

Twitter · Aug 16, 2023, 3:13 PM

[manic latch]

Sovetsky Soyuz

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/08/16/usni-news-video-uss-constitution-is-getting-a-mast-makeover

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1691995463766233350

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1977, Elvis died. Because Elvis had played a key role in raising money for the USS Arizona Memorial, the U.S. Navy floated a wreath at Pearl Harbor in his honor. During his career, Elvis secretly visited the Memorial several times to pay his respects. https://t.co/3uJP54f8Tn

Twitter · Aug 17, 2023, 2:08 AM

[thorn trail]

wait what ship is this

[rapid junco]

Its St.Louis

Except

When she was serving my country's navy

Then her name is Tamandaré

[deep apex]

Brazil

[frozen kestrel]

That ship using her hull or...?

[manic latch]

If only

Sharing names only

[desert agate]

I find it odd how often the Papua's are forgotten in the fight for their own homeland

[desert agate]

You are very much grasping at straws here

[cinder escarp]

Lightning carriers themselves are grasping at straws

[subtle prawn]

Question for you Spon, do you feel it was the right choice to select the F100 over the Burke for the Air Warfare Destroyer program?

[desert agate]

Burke's are exceptionally capable platforms but RAN just doesn't have the manpower to operate them

So the smaller Hobart design fits RANs requirements better, even if a Burke is a far more capable platform

[subtle prawn]

What about the decision to not buy the Kidd-class destroyers despite having been given the opportunity to in the 90s?

[desert agate]

The Kidds were old and RAN had a program underway with the Anzacs, would have been difficult to operate the very long lived anzacs and their ASW capabilities in the same quantity, and while they would have been an upgrade over the Perths, the issues of reworking RAN for a small class with the Hobart's coming in the middle of the next decade

The Kidds also had similarly significant manpower requirements that RAN wasn't capable of dealing with

[cinder escarp]

There's a big issue with the kidds, even though they were quite capable post refits.

(It's an issue that affected the kidds, sprucans, ticos, and the OHPs)

Lots and lots of structural & superstructure aluminum.

Cracks everywhere.

[warm finch]

It's just how I argue things but noted?

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1692186037928198652

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, FADM Halsey ordered the 20 carriers, 9 battleships, 25 cruisers and 79 destroyers of TF 38 and the British Pacific Fleet to perform high-speed maneuvers near the coast of Japan so that the awesome fleet could be documented with aerial photos in Operation Snapshot.

Likes

212

Twitter · Aug 17, 2023, 2:46 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/gduknews/status/1692195019065528535

General Dynamics UK (@gduknews)

#Ajax

Twitter · Aug 17, 2023, 3:21 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANHl-zz3m0c

[manic latch]

Where Abrams

[warm finch]

Here

Don´t know why some were in the frankly ugly desert camo and some in the bussin´ forest camo...

But I think it might be because the good looking ones are being sent to the situation to polands immedate southwest judging from the identification plates on the front.

[manic latch]

US should do parades as well

They do airshows but

Parades are very rare

[warm finch]

Yeah, but I reckon it makes sense. A parade usually happens in a city that is somewhat close to the majority of the population. I.e. Czechia doing them in Prague, Poland doing them in Warsaw. How do you want to do that in the US? Thus all of these things have to be localised and while the navy and air force can just use it for maneuverability training the army doesn´t have that luxury.

And besides it comes off as dictatorial more often than not

From what I hear the parade in Poland is seen by certain people as that

[subtle prawn]

France has military parades and I haven't seen anybody call them dictatorial

[manic latch]

Pennsylvania Avenue

Decent place for parade

[warm finch]

Oh do not get me wrong I´d LOVE to see it. Just that it´s kinda not worth it. The yanks already know how great their military is.

[warm finch]

Yes but in Czechia or Poland your parents grew up under a brutal dictatorship. Hard to disassociate the army from that, y´know?

[manic latch]

We wouldn't have B-2s flying over stadiums then tho

[warm finch]

I don´t understand American military culture I have to admit, but I´d say the only stealth bomber in activate service is a lot more effective than a few dozen tanks based on a 70s chassis going around on a street.

[shrewd pecan]

DC's roads aren't really meant for big military parades

its why there usually reserved for special circumstances

[strong plank]

Yeah like uh

back in the mid 2000s they did some sort of exposition/display with some equipment

And it fucked up the asphalt

[shrewd pecan]

combine that with the impact of having to close down several major roads in a major city

[strong plank]

The desert-painted Abrams might be the American ones

apparently some US forces took part in the parade

[shrewd pecan]

they're

it says 1st cav on the tank

[strong plank]

ah gotcha

[warm finch]

That makes sense.

[strong plank]

the military does advertise itself

every time the Boy Scouts do a jamboree they bring a bunch of equipment to show off

they brought a Bradley and a bunch of armor when I was there

[manic latch]

Ye

[shrewd pecan]

considering there's no historical significance or anything for a military parade to be regularly held in DC there's no real point in shutting down a major city when you can just hold said parade else where

[manic latch]

True i guess

[shrewd pecan]

better to just reserve it for when the US wins a war or something else major

[warm finch]

Speaking of...

[strong plank]

yeah so it was that 1991 parade that fucked up the roads

[manic latch]

Wonder if fixing that road is cheaper than firing a Tomahawk

[strong plank]

DC roads designed to support 30 tons + 85f weather + 50+ ton vehicles

[manic latch]

V for Victory

[desert agate]

The last time America tried to do a major parade it resulted complete political catastrophe and heavily contributed to the resignation of the chief of staff us army

[manic latch]

Wtf

[warm finch]

I- I kinda don´t want to ask, but HOW?

[sullen canyon]

And now you wonder why the US doesn't do that many Military Parades anymore

I want to say the only time we had those kind of parades is like a post war celebration of sorts or something along that order

[desert agate]

It was due to the former president and his views

Beyond the concerns of looking fascistic, there was a significant disagreement between the executive and the military regarding wounded soldiers, the military wanting the wounded to be front and centre and the executive wanting complete exclusion

I won't go into further detail due to concerns of political discussions

But basically military parades are too politically contentious to happen at scale for the US

[sullen canyon]

Precisely

[desert agate]

Australia basically only does public parades on Anzac day

[shy zealot]

Remember
People who were literally evil mustache man include: Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Thomas Edison, and Abraham Lincoln.

People who did nothing wrong include: Evil mustache man, Erwin Rommel, Robert E. Lee

[manic latch]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-18/labor-redoubles-non-nuclear-commitments-seeking-support-aukus/102743308

Yo spon

What ya think

[warm finch]

Boy do I have some things to tell you about gandhi...

[shy zealot]

Yeah, yeah, I know

One's degree in the university of Plebbit tells one that he was a racist, pedophile, and advocate for nuclear conflict

I feel you're missing the point of one's jest.

[warm finch]

...what exactly is the point tho?

[shy zealot]

I'm making fun of reddit-discord history contrarianism and also making a joke about contradictions within it.

[warm finch]

Try saying that 10 times fast

[desert agate]

Government has already agreed to support AUKUS and its relevant expenses in DSR, downscaling it may be something government decides to do due to current economic struggles, but it won't be cancelled

Gandhi was also quite racist

[haughty osprey]

Quite is an understatement

[desert agate]

Gandhi in South Africa was a thing

[shy zealot]

Already commented on that

[shy zealot]

and as we know, historical figures were static beings who never adjusted or learned from anything

[warm finch]

Mostly just for the worse, Stalin arguably killed himself with the whole purging all the doctors thing

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zub7HBQFGQM

[storm echo]

https://www.businessinsider.com/company-plans-to-build-new-version-wwii-catalina-flying-boat-2023-8
PBYs are coming back

[desert agate]

As I've said before, modern militaries dramatically undervalue the capabilities seaplanes provide

[blissful sluice]

as somebody who likes midway, I approve

[storm echo]

that's pretty true

like, how are you going to take off in your B2 when all of your airbases in the pacific have been firebombed and cruise missiles by the Chinese

Seaplanes are undervalued

they're very versatile for one

[desert agate]

Aerial mining, search and rescue, mobile airborne ASW (not restricted to airfields), rapid resupply of amphibious operations, ect

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pUkIoPFxvg

[cinder escarp]

I've seen a T-34/85 drive in person, it's very... janky.

It's like watching a 15 FPS animation IRL

[desert agate]

I'd upload my footage of it from tankfest last year but unfortunately the sd card the footage is on is on the other side of the country 4000km away

And I'm not back there for another few days

[cinder escarp]

I was at the possibly final Tankfest Northwest, and it was quite noticeable.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2KM_VzYfnE

[somber knoll]

dat lone triple turret

[somber knoll]

Desuland?

[eternal veldt]

yes

[somber knoll]

[thorn trail]

ok what influences turret shape design?

I've been wondering what determines the shape of the turret and what are the things they take note when designing said turret

[somber knoll]

this is just me being subjective, but you do realize a turret's main components are the gun itself, loading mechanism, and all the additional systems to control them right?

[autumn sorrel]

See the ear thing on the turret, those are rangefinder

[thorn trail]

Yeah I know the ear is a rangefinder

Like some turrets have the front face be sloped while others are flat and what not

[autumn sorrel]

Then what influence them is most likely designer style, doctrine and industrial limitation

Tech also count in if it triple and quad turret

[somber knoll]

there's also the influence of their reloader.

horizontal reloading style like Bisko tend to be flat
while vertical ones can vary

[alpine onyx]

Also requirements for the turrets, if subdivision is mandatory, if redundancies are to be applied, if hoists/machinery can be shared between the guns, etc

Like if you insist and demand a fully redundant set of backup hoists for each gun, you get what happened to Bisko with a rather wide turret

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iCqg34IBOo

[quasi ridge]

Germany won WW2

[strong plank]

weird way of spelling ‘lost’

[desert agate]

Germany won the shallow grave it deserved

[spring briar]

Ever since Sirene discovered those reserve hoists

His life has never been the same

[rapid junco]

Task failed succesfully

[shy zealot]

Richy

[rapid junco]

Since you are here, Riche
I wanted to ask if i mentioned this guy
Admiral Alexandrino

[shy zealot]

Who

[rapid junco]

Admiral Alexandrino Faria de Alencar

Its a naval personality here
I wanted to talk about him for Riche since he commanded a ship that Riche likes

[shy zealot]

[spring briar]

oh

the coastal bb we sold to you?

[rapid junco]

Ah
No

Aquidabã

[spring briar]

still good

[rapid junco]

Alexandrino commanded Aquidabã during the second Armada Revolt in 1893
And was forced to exile himself after the rebels (his side) lost

Returning to Brazil later on
He would be minister of Navy 3 times (1906-1910; 1913-1918 and 1922-1926)

And he is responsible for the acquisition of the Fleet of 1910 (the one who included the Dreadnoughts), acquisition of submarines, creation of the Naval Aviation. (He was really into inovation despide being born in 1848)

Ah
And he was also the great grandson of Pierre Labatut

He would pass away in 1926 (at the age of 77)
When he was still a minister of the navy
Nowadays, there's a Navy School with his name

[spring briar]

I love the Aquidaba

[rapid junco]

Yeah
And i wonder why though
Could you explain?

[spring briar]

It's Brazilian

from my favourite period in Brazilian history

and it's a cool ship

[rapid junco]

Ah
So you are keen on the Empire era

Ngl going to lie
That i though your favorite ship that operated with us would be the Deodoro class
Or São Paulo (ex-Foch

[spring briar]

I mean it was

quite a lot better than the early republic

also

lmao Paraguay

[rapid junco]

Yeah... (sweats_

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1692557922910290207

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

The Lockheed R6V Constitution remains the largest fixed-wing aircraft ever operated by the U.S. Navy. The double-decker transport plane was developed in the 1940s but proved to be underpowered and too expensive. Only two were built. Both have been scrapped.
#FunFactFriday

Twitter · Aug 18, 2023, 3:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx7lxK_q8wY

[shy zealot]

🇱🇷

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/Lewdtenant_Isan/status/1692269336172585239

Lewd-Tenant Isan (@Lewdtenant_Isan)

Pratt and Whitney chose violence with this one

Likes

3571

Retweets

438

Twitter · Aug 17, 2023, 8:17 PM

[alpine onyx]

That truth became a major piece in the insanity of German ship design, and it being replicated for the smaller calibers only cemented it

[spring briar]

haha

no they didn't

even the 105's?

[tough quail]

Oh

No

[alpine onyx]

Even the 105s

At least on the Hippers, haven't checked the others, for every 105mm mount there is a dedicated magazine, and then two main hoists and two reserve hoists

So in total twelve main hoists and twelve backup hoists

[spring briar]

lmao

[manic latch]

@spring briar @tough quail

The Russian nuclear icebreaker "50 Years Of Victory" meets the French icebreaking cruise ship "Commander Charcot" at the North Pole.

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

lads

[spring briar]

Soyuz and Clem meeting amirite

[wintry moat]

Damn

just came out swinging

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

[somber knoll]

Huh, just realized that Mark 35 torps is now available in the gear lab.

other than navweaps, does anyone have a cutout of the torp design?

[supple sandal]

https://youtu.be/NxINRnY5x3g

[manic latch]

Kronshtadt, pull the lever

Wrong lever

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2b6_d50zJg

[manic latch]

@tough quail Osa's origin

[manic latch]

Ustinov

Reason Osa couldn't get fire and move

[autumn sorrel]

Wait, real shit?

[manic latch]

I mean most Soviet quotes are either fiction to hate on a character or real deal

So take it by %50 truth

[cinder escarp]

Given Ustinov's confirmed harsh and domineering tendencies, probably accurate.

Reminder the sole reason the T-80 was developed and put into production was him.

Ustinov was personally groomed by Stalin, gave 150% effort, and demanded that from everyone under him.

For T-80, Ustinov wanted a Gas Turbine tank. And come hell or high water, he got his.

[supple sandal]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)

[warm finch]

... I guess it worked? I mean the T-80 is relatively decent for basically a severe evolution of the T-64?

[vestal willow]

Is this the channel to ask about what the newly released ships are historically speaking?

[tough quail]

pretty much

[vestal willow]

So what's the deal with Guichen? She's listed as a De Grasse AA cruiser though she clearly has triple 6" turrets as opposed to the historical De Grasse's twin 5" DP guns.

Was that only a post war addition after De Grasse's building was resumed, or is that just inconsistent on AL's part?

I'm guessing that the class was initially planned with triple 6" turrets but the AA modification was something done for De Grasse post war, though in that case I don't know why Guichen is presented as an AA cruiser when she should be a standard light cruiser

[eternal veldt]

De Grasse, as designed, is a light cruiser succeeding the La Gallisoniere class cruisers.

That's why you see three triple 15.2cm turrets on her rigging, as this is how the class should look if they were completed.

[vestal willow]

Yeah, that's what I mean. So I'm assuming that it was only after the war that her design was changed into an AA cruiser because of the obsolesence of standard pre war light cruisers. Though if Guichen is supposed to reflect the original design, why is she called an AA cruiser?

[eternal veldt]

Quite simple: Said 152mm guns were on paper dual-purpose.

They are not the same guns as the preceding La Galissoniere class cruisers, which were single purpose only.

Rather, they were based on Richelieu's 152mm secondary battery guns, which were capable of 70 degree elevation and loading at any angle.

[vestal willow]

I see. I'm guessing they had nowhere near the training speed required to actually perform in that role though?

Then again if used as barrage guns that probably wouldn't be necessary

[eternal veldt]

The mount on the Richelieus was not satisfactory.

Loading above 45 degrees often led to jams.

Combined with low reloading speeds and your mentioned slow elevation and training rates, it wasn't that good.

But, however reality reflected, these guns are capable of anti-aircraft duties.

[vestal willow]

Alright, thanks for the interesting information

What was the designation of the turrets used on Richelieu on supposed to be used on De Grasse?

Were they both Mle 1930?

[eternal veldt]

Richelieu's 152mm secondary battery was designated 152/55 Model 1930, in a triple HA-mounting of Model 1936.

[vestal willow]

Right, so the mounting differed. I guess in that case the name of the equipment now offered in the event shop is not necessarily wrong

[eternal veldt]

Same for De Grasse, just limited to 70 degrees instead of 90 degrees on Richelieu.

[vestal willow]

Surprised it doesn't give any AA stat but that's probably for balancing reasons and I digress

[eternal veldt]

I wouldn't look much into the stats of the weaponry personally.

cough Barracudas being gold

[somber knoll]

silver, have you seen the newly added Mark 35 torps in the gear lab?

[eternal veldt]

I haven't. What of them?

[somber knoll]

do they actually have both on surface and under water capabilities?

[thorn trail]

the surface one seems to be just an AL thing

all I can find on the Mk35 says they were only for subs

[eternal veldt]

A "Universal" torpedo derived from the Marks 24, 32 and 33 with about 400 being produced between 1949 and 1952. In service until 1960 when it was replaced by the Mark 37.

Final settings were provided from a fire control system to the weapon through a 1" (25 mm) diameter umbilical cable which was cut away during weapon expulsion from the tube. It was intended as an ASW weapon, with the secondary objective of anti-surface vessel attack.

Settings included a pre-enable run-out course and distance, search ceiling and floor, and right or left circling search pattern.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_PostWWII.php

[thorn trail]

Oooo

So it was surface capable

[somber knoll]

yep

tho this goes on like "sub first, ship second" approach

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-zNCF-Lni4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9DapNV7epE

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1692919276376584546

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1961, the Swedish HMS Bavern had perhaps the rarest of submarine accidents when it was involved in a fender-bender with a car. The Volvo had been parked on a hill but slipped out of gear and rolled down the slope to collide with the docked sub, causing minor damage.

Likes

166

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 3:19 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/3497502/keel-authenticated-for-future-uss-tang-ssn-805/

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1692897173082632484

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

Korean Mobile Protective Firepower (K-MPF) light tank concept via Hanwha's a design patent.
The K-MPF is based on K21's powertrain and K-NIFV hull, with a new 105mm turret equipped with an autoloader and ATGM dual launcher.
https://t.co/vSNRZVNe2R

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 1:51 PM

https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1692913129276260496

Ronkainen (@ronkainen7k15)

M10 Booker Combat Vehicle firing 105mm main gun on the move.

Likes

545

Retweets

105

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 2:55 PM

[shrewd pecan]

Tank for the infantry

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1692966975234847049

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

In 1949, a Marine pilot's Corsair developed engine trouble while flying off the coast of Calif. The pilot radioed his base: "Call my wife. Tell her I'll be late for chow." He then ditched in the Pacific. He was rescued but it is unknown if he made chow on time.
#SeaStorySaturday

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 6:29 PM

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1692970554444144919
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1692970651928101276

Oryx (@oryxspioenkop)

Introducing the Dutch CV9035NL MLU! 🇳🇱🔥

Packed with upgrades like a launcher for two Spike-LR2 ATGMs, Iron Fist APS, a sleek new turret, and an advanced EO mast.

Likes

362

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 6:43 PM

Oryx (@oryxspioenkop)

For the nerds:

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 6:43 PM

[runic ermine]

That looks really nice

[strong plank]

God I’ve discovered the funniest take in the comments

“You should only need one kind of gun, like the Sherman”

who wants to tell him

[deep apex]

"you should only need one caliber of gun"

Phillip Petain is dying of laughter in his grave

Motherfucker did not at all see the effects of using a single kind of heavy gun in modern warfare

Is this guy WW1 French High Command in 1914?

"Yeah the 75s are all we need."
The 10.5cm German short-barrelled howitzer: "Are you sure about that?"

[strong plank]

Other commenter

the US still could’ve acquired the CV90 with a 120 smoothbore and saved “billions”

gee it’s almost like they wanted a light tank and not an afv with the same main armament as an Abrams

[manic latch]

American Sprut huh

Also

I thought M10 wasn't a light tank

Or is it Pentagon coping for terminology

[shrewd pecan]

M10 > sprut

the Army is saying it isn't a light tank

you could classify it as a assault gun since that's closer to what its intended to do

just like how the Stryker MGS is classified as a assault gun since they have similar mission sets

[manic latch]

2 decade difference

Also M10 can't swim

24 ton heavier than Sprut

[shrewd pecan]

maintains its air mobility

has actual armor protection as well

but eh we probably shouldn't dive into the technology cope shitfest

M10s while design wise can be very much considered a light tank

as I said earlier doctrine wise its more of a assault gun

its main job is to assist light infantry elements

[manic latch]

Only logic over Stryker yes

[shrewd pecan]

stryker mgs only had 18 rounds

was on a platform that was left unmodernized compared to the rest of the Stryker family

wasn't meant for infantry brigades

on top of that Stryker MGS isn't really needed anymore

considering Stryker brigades are going to be assigned to divisions with ABCTs

[subtle prawn]

https://defence24.pl/sily-zbrojne/krazowniki-obrony-wybrzeza-dla-marynarki-wojennej-rp Discussing the possibility of Poland acquiring a Ticonderoga

[strong plank]

The booker also doesn’t uh

make maintainers want to kill themselves

or at least it shouldn’t

[shrewd pecan]

it's FCS is also apparently suppose to be crazy

[strong plank]

and reportedly the ergonomics are basically that of an Abrams

[grave ravine]

Booker is also designed to be easy to get out of

[grave ravine]

That would be incredibly goofy

The Ticos are like completely tapped out

[manic latch]

Literally rotting

[cinder escarp]

The early T-80s aren't even that serious of an evolution. They replaced the super jank suspension of T-64, reworked the engine bay a tad, and on the 80B replaced the very jank ceramic balls in the turret with the more reliable kvartz. But they're still basically T-64s.

[tough quail]

https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1692936667634520175

Nicholas Drummond (@nicholadrummond)

An assault gun, light tank, and reconnaissance vehicle all rolled into one. The US Army's Mobile Protected Firepower program has been perfectly managed from start to finish. This is the result.

Likes

355

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 4:28 PM

remember lads if you add more names it makes it sound more impressive

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1692984416195186970

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's #NationalPotatoDay. There is a disputed story about USS O'Bannon coming upon a surfaced Japanese sub that was too close for the ship's guns, so the crew pelted the Japanese with potatoes. Thinking the spuds were grenades, the sub submerged and was then sunk by depth charges.

Likes

211

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 7:38 PM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1693032709940011116

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1981, two F-14s from VF-41 "Black Aces" shot down two Libyan Su-22 Fitters. The Gulf of Sidra incident marked the first air-to-air victories for U.S. Navy F-14 pilots. Iranian Air Force pilots had scored the first F-14 victories a year early against Iraqi aircraft.

Likes

119

Twitter · Aug 19, 2023, 10:50 PM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1693060495538872468

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Happy #NationalAviationDay! You cannot help but admire the skill of U.S. Navy aviators after watching this F/A-18E from VFA-115 land on a carrier in low visibility. #FlyNavy

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 20, 2023, 12:40 AM

[manic latch]

New MBT vs DECISIVE LETHALITY PLATFORM

But

XM30 was a very good changed from OMFV

Hope US continues changing weird names

[autumn sorrel]

Krem, VPN is refit and rebuilding Petya

With "stealth superstructure"

[manic latch]

I saw it yeah

[strong plank]

Because DLP doesn’t necessarily mean a tank

it could be something else that fills the same criteria

Will it end up being an MBT? Most likely

but the requirements aren’t simply “where new mbt”

[manic latch]

"La Creatura"

[grave ravine]

Goofy German multi vehicle tank

[manic latch]

"Lethal Armed Combat Recon Electric Assault Tank Utility Recovery Armor" aka La Creatura

I swear American names are like this

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/WillyCuz/status/1691169585402150914

Willy Cuz (@WillyCuz)

Awesome footage from the USS Missouri battleship. During the Gulf War when she came under anti-ship missile attack. This footage takes place in the artillery plotting room.

#USNavy #battleship #gulfwar

Likes

826

Retweets

179

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 14, 2023, 7:27 PM

[cinder escarp]

gas masks

Come on, there aren't gas warhead termits

[stone oak]

Surface chuds are just jumpy folk

Targets and submarines iykwim

[spiral cedar]

Toxic fumes are a fairly common side effect of explosive ordnance hitting warships

And in any event it was known that Iraq had chemical weapons, so they had reason to be overly cautious

[manic latch]

Also fires are a thing yeah