history

[autumn sorrel]

Impressive, now put it on a workable chassis

[eternal veldt]

Because of a certain film

[tough quail]

i thought that was a nightmare blueprint thing

[manic latch]

You don't know the twin 152mm? It's a variant of Koalitsiya

[tight wolf]

genuine question

[eternal veldt]

And someone further doing a fucking youtube video on it

[tight wolf]

how did russia manage to fight ww2 without collapsing

[tough quail]

i didnt know they got off the blueprint stage

[tight wolf]

due to people not wanting to die

[shrewd pecan]

the discussion can be easily wrapped up with this one video that presents both sides arguments rather well
https://youtu.be/xG4ks5f31Wg

[maiden citrus]

by being a very large country

[flat copper]

Wait. How many were built, and how often was it used if it even was?

[shrewd pecan]

determination, defense in depth & lend lease

[manic latch]

Stalin

[autumn sorrel]

Thanks god they rework it back to 1 barrel for reasonable sake

[tight wolf]

stalin or stalling fr

[desert agate]

because they knew that surrender meant death, thus the only option was to fight with the hope of survival

[eternal veldt]

Both

[tough quail]

waIT WHY ARE THERE MULTIPLE IN THAT PICTURE

[maiden citrus]

as for the bombings I still think jaba put it 10/10 well

and nothing can really top it

[manic latch]

Likely few, but it was deemed to complex so single barrel happened

[tight wolf]

what does lend lease mean again

i forgot lol

[shrewd pecan]

aid given to the Soviet Union

[eternal veldt]

Keep in mind that the Russians also basically moved their industry deep into the Ural mountains with the German invasion

[flat copper]

I thought so.

[shrewd pecan]

ranging from military equipment to industrial goods

[tough quail]

to the whole of the allies, not just the USSR

[maiden citrus]

to the allies, just often meant for ussr

yeah

[desert agate]

when a daddy country and a mommy country love each other very much...

[random trench]

Imagine picking up your entire industry and moving it

[maiden citrus]

since often early on it would also go us -> britain -> ussr

[tight wolf]

wasnt soviet tech in ww2 behind?

[autumn sorrel]

It still able to do 3 round burst fire

[random trench]

It births Poland, the subject of divorce papers

[tough quail]

belgium???

[tight wolf]

didnt lend lease help the soviets alot cause like russian tech was behind

[shrewd pecan]

No in most cases

[tough quail]

kremlin dont

[eternal veldt]

Its something you would do when your country is on the brink of destruction.

[tight wolf]

when fatherland blitzkriegs the motherland

[autumn sorrel]

Not easy as it sound, tank quality gone very bad during that period

[desert agate]

the only country to send more in lend lease back to the USA than it received was New Zealand

[random trench]

Soviet tech wasn’t behind in some areas but they definitely had a metric fuckton of material losses immediately after the start of Barbarossa

[desert agate]

the only other country to come close was Australia

[random trench]

Truth

[eternal veldt]

The ROC did the same with relocating their capital deep into the mountains of Chinese proper where guerilla warfare would hope to stop the Japanese advances

[tight wolf]

fuckton of mat losses yet they managed to keep making tanks

[shrewd pecan]

the Soviets only really lagged behind in electronics and computing

[random trench]

Counter point, Argentina

[autumn sorrel]

It build up Soviet logistical system

[manic latch]

No, they don't have enough numbers

[random trench]

Who doesn’t like beef

[tough quail]

wat

[desert agate]

not a combatant, only declared war for like 5 minutes

[manic latch]

Molotov was the only ship with air radar before invasion for example

[random trench]

But Beef

[tough quail]

to be fair most ships in the world didnt have air radar

[eternal veldt]

Remember

[tight wolf]

only thing i know bout argentina is that it waged war with britain for an island

[random trench]

Name me a country which solely donated beef of all things

[tight wolf]

then gave up

[eternal veldt]

Be Poland

[tough quail]

molotovs more of an early adopter than anything else

[eternal veldt]

Get your war declaration rejected by Japan

[tough quail]

its just, yknow, all that work cut immediately cut short

[maiden citrus]

I am interested in the answer to this

[thorn trail]

If anyone was wondering Jaba talking about the surrender, it's in pins or this link #history message

[tight wolf]

LMAO

i love how japan actually did that

[tough quail]

Mongolia iirc

though it wasnt solely beef

[maiden citrus]

I need beef

[desert agate]

goddamnit now i want a steak

[eternal veldt]

Maka seeking the country to contribute hot dogs only

[random trench]

Argentina’s sole contribution to the war was fucking beef

[tough quail]

mongolia sent a ton of furs and boots as well

oh

[random trench]

That was literally it

[autumn sorrel]

You need Pork

[random trench]

Nothing else

[tough quail]

i guess argentina is similar then

[desert agate]

hey random whacky fact, Australia exports more wagyu than Japan does

[tough quail]

but yeah

[shrewd pecan]

The Soviets going into the war were caught in the middle of a massive expansion & Reform of the armed forces with most units either lacking equipment or being stuck with lower quality equipment

[tough quail]

the mongolian support of the USSR is cool as fuck

[manic latch]

Hell Soviet computers were also very comparable to West until 1960s. The massive gap began in 60s

[maiden citrus]

uhhhhhh

[autumn sorrel]

Don’t forget the officer corps was gutted the previous yrs

[maiden citrus]

yeah chat is too fast for me to touch most of this at work tbh

[eternal veldt]

Some soviets held up rather well against the initial slaughter, most famous one probably being Rasienai, I think?

[flat copper]

And good leaders since Stalin’s purges

[shrewd pecan]

the officer purges

[tough quail]

i dont know enough about 1950s computers in general to tell you if kremlin is full of shit or not

[desert agate]

the Soviets shot their own computing industry in the foot when they decided to start importing IBM machines which basically destroyed their R&D

[maiden citrus]

but also that's not the jaba thing I was thinking of

[shrewd pecan]

while having a impact

[manic latch]

In 1936, an analog computer known as a water integrator was designed by Vladimir Lukyanov. It was the world's first computer for solving partial differential equations

[shrewd pecan]

is honestly given more blame

than the fact the army was just generally

not ready to fight a war

[eternal veldt]

Remember Krem

Your precious Soyuz is considered a wrecking because of the purging and the tomfuckery over the TDS

Good job

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MESM

Literally could be first in Europe

[tough quail]

neat, ill look into it soon

[autumn sorrel]

German has been on war footing since 1939, they already fix all their mobilization problem by the time of Op Babarossa

[manic latch]

I will fix her

[eternal veldt]

stares at Belorussiya

Sure

[shrewd pecan]

I would argue the disinterest of most of the Soviet Government to actually utilize computers to their full advantage alongside the lack of a civilian sector to make up for the lack of government interest in computing largely killed whatever systems the Soviets were able to make

[tough quail]

behold

tons of glue

[thorn trail]

Nah soviet computing was already pretty far back by the 1950s

[manic latch]

Bro MESM exists in 50s

[thorn trail]

The eastern bloc fell behind hard in the semiconductor race

[flat copper]

I have quite a few things I could say about the Russian Navy, but I’d rather not risk hurting Kremlin’s feelings at this point.

[eternal veldt]

Can we not

Current events

[manic latch]

It's very easy to be USN fan yes

[tough quail]

you should not worry about kremlin

you should worry about me

👁️

[shrewd pecan]

you and your post soviet rust buckets

[eternal veldt]

I will shit on Kirov as built though, fite me

[tough quail]

kremlin takes the hits

i bite back

[autumn sorrel]

Same go for their chip industry, there really isn’t any demand from a non existent civilian market so they lack competitive

[flat copper]

@tough quail Oh God.

[manic latch]

You still use cold war Ticos and Flight 1 Burkes tho

[tough quail]

she's basically the most aesthetic cruiser of the war though so it makes up for her guns being turboshite

[thorn trail]

The eastern bloc actually tried to catch up to the west in semiconductors

[eternal veldt]

If its only the guns it wouldnt be a problem would it

[thorn trail]

East Germany was one such nation

and let's just say their entire industry was built on quicksand

[shrewd pecan]

I mean the newest Tico

[eternal veldt]

Torpedo cutting off a prop blade and your whole deck buckling from firing is not diejoubu

[shrewd pecan]

is still decently newer than the bulk of the Russian capital fleet

[tough quail]

shhhhhhhhhhhh its fiiiiineeeeeee

[thorn trail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxrkC-pMH_s

[eternal veldt]

Even Mogami doesnt reach this comedy level

Come on

[tough quail]

also kremlin please dont actually start a fight

[flat copper]

Hey @tough quail Any thoughts on the Kamchatka?

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8

[tough quail]

shitpost barge

[eternal veldt]

Ah yes

[manic latch]

Better video

[desert agate]

the drach watcher has arrived

[eternal veldt]

Kamchatka

Otherwise known as falsified accounts

[tough quail]

but that's late stage tsarist russia in general

[autumn sorrel]

GDR botched their first batch bc they don’t want to spend few more buck on slippers

[tough quail]

also yeah im pretty sure half of that is fake

but i dont care because its funny

[limber dune]

can you breakdown how much of it is falsified?

[manic latch]

I will make a Bingo on "yes I hate Russian/Soviet Navy because only info I have about them is internet memes"

[eternal veldt]

Its written by a communist who has a bone to pick with Rozhenestvensky

[maiden citrus]

more comedically, the funniest part of computer history between the two is when civilian computers in the us reached a point where they were classified as super computers by law and so could not be sold to the ussr and that had to be rethought

[desert agate]

would be very difficult to prove without access to original sources

[shrewd pecan]

I will defend the one thing Russia does well when it comes to naval procurement

their frigate designs are pretty alright

[desert agate]

just take it all with a graind of salt

[manic latch]

Yasen or Gorshkov?

[flat copper]

I’m also pretty sure a fair bit of the records on all the ships were lost. But yeah, the stories are funny as hell

[eternal veldt]

And yes, I unfortunately dont have primary access

[tough quail]

also their ships have like, actual shapes going on

[limber dune]

ah the traditional "it came from one source and im not gonna check if theres any other sources which backs it up"

[tough quail]

instead of being weird plastic barges

so thats nice

[shrewd pecan]

Gorshkovs

[eternal veldt]

But from my understanding the accounts do not match up with what was described

[flat copper]

Pretty sure Avrora was fine though.

[autumn sorrel]

Anti Commie does make a fool of themselves time to time

[eternal veldt]

Alexei Novikov-Priboi (aka Alexei Zaterty): Tsushima or Tsushima: Grave of a Floating City: Steward aboard Orel/Oryol, and an open revolutionary (was in fact imprisoned for revolutionary sentiment pre-RJW but was released to serve). Despite the fact that his account is incredibly suspect (he insists he found his memoir notes in a beehive after hiding them there decades before, and studies by Westwood and McLaughlin note that he contradicts his own anonymous publication under A. Zaterty shortly after the RJW, and that there are INSANE discrepancies between the 1937 1st Edition and later revisions), it is applauded and often cited (perhaps with bad judgment) because he is the ONLY comprehensive testimony written from the perspective of a common sailor, and combined reported "reports" from other sailors he met while a prisoner-of-war. Pro-revolutionary, very anti-officer and anti-Rozhestvensky (he is cited as a possible origin of the "Rozhestvensky throws binoculars when angry). His book will be insanely hard to acquire; I got lucky and found one for sale in the US for $12, but the next copy was $120. Lived and became a famous Soviet author.

[autumn sorrel]

Gepard

[limber dune]

maybe aurora was fine because it also served the communist regime

[manic latch]

Yasen cute

[eternal veldt]

Never mind the fact majority of the wikipedia article came from a single fucking website

[tough quail]

though i dont think they do the red decks anymore which is bullshit

stinky

[shrewd pecan]

its something Russia is actually able to both afford and build while being rather well armed for a frigate

vs the uhhhh

super cruisers designs they keep shitting out

then never end up building

[eternal veldt]

But hey, throwing binoculars is funny, I guess

[thorn trail]

I honestly thought this was one of those futuristic trains you see in movies

like futurustic tram carriage

[autumn sorrel]

Frigate with Cruise missile strike capability, I will take ten

[tough quail]

submarines are just water trains

[eternal veldt]

Just next to a French officer tearing his wig off, throwing it and his telescope off a ship of the line

[maiden citrus]

behold, snowpiercer

[tough quail]

🧠

[shrewd pecan]

they build better frigates than the Germans

[desert agate]

dw guys Russia can totally afford a new carrier

[eternal veldt]

Then subsequently restrained by his fellow officers

[desert agate]

Meko 300s:

[eternal veldt]

For being absolutely angry at Villeneueve

[desert agate]

[manic latch]

I'm sure there is only 2 I know, Lider and uhh Project 21956

[tough quail]

tato i build better frigates than the germans

[autumn sorrel]

Tbf, German keep building pocket battleship

[shrewd pecan]

its a low bar to cross

but Russia has failed to cross a lot of low bars as of late

(I AM REFERRING TO PROCUREMENT ONLY!)

[thorn trail]

aren't German frigates big but kind of underpowered in terms of armament lately?

[tough quail]

tbf like

[manic latch]

Builds only Fifth gen in Europe instead buying it

Gets bullied by Europeans for it

[tough quail]

the entire world sucks at procurement

[limber dune]

yes

[manic latch]

I will have my revenge on Fcas and Tempest procurement

[tough quail]

the only one doing "well" at military procurement is poland

[eternal veldt]

I think someone here has a bone to pick with the Baden Würtemburgs

[tough quail]

and they;'re going to bankrupt themselves

[shrewd pecan]

honestly

[desert agate]

its okay guys the Hunter class will still work we just need to wait longer

[limber dune]

because iirc it was meant for low-intensity conflict

[manic latch]

Easy when you are buying it from others

[desert agate]

[shrewd pecan]

as long as they chill on their

[tough quail]

they think its too easy

[shrewd pecan]

MLRS numbers

[autumn sorrel]

They have a legitimate threat to sink the economy under just to buy weapons

[tough quail]

and somehow think they can uhhhh

[eternal veldt]

You know what I find funny

[shrewd pecan]

they'd be basically operating a South Korea sized army

[tough quail]

have a military larger than the combined whole of western europe

[shrewd pecan]

with a South Korea sized budget

[eternal veldt]

Both Prince of Wales has issues with their shafts

[shrewd pecan]

its doable

[eternal veldt]

Bad namesake do be bad /s

[manic latch]

Turkey still has more tanks than Poland since M48s lmao

[autumn sorrel]

But not a SK size economy

[tough quail]

man i want an m48

[maiden citrus]

I mean tbf we kinda can't do the hilarious counterargument since current events

[tough quail]

:(

also no

[shrewd pecan]

South Korea had to maintain that defense spending level for decades before their economic miracle

[tough quail]

poland is not going to keep their fleet of bullshit

[eternal veldt]

Reject egg

[manic latch]

She is fixed

[eternal veldt]

Embrace Centurion

[tough quail]

as soon as the maintenance periods start rolling in

[shrewd pecan]

the 500 HIMARs purchase plan is uhhhh

stupid beyond belief

[tough quail]

polands military is going to eat shit hand over fist

[shrewd pecan]

but everything else I think its reasonable

[autumn sorrel]

That is kinda wishful thinking

[eternal veldt]

Yea, an unfortunate coincidence

[shrewd pecan]

I generally

[manic latch]

I support it, imagine the maintenance funding those things will suck it up

[tough quail]

because they have more spaghetti logistics than the entirety of italy can produce

[desert agate]

Im just glad ADF is kinda fixing its procurement

except Navy

Navy likes pain

[shrewd pecan]

do not know how the fuck you keep that many 227 MM systems operational

[desert agate]

[shrewd pecan]

they want a US sized MLRS ballpark

its just not gonna happen

[autumn sorrel]

I rather have the capability to manufacture ammunition for the weapon system than buy more of it.

[shrewd pecan]

there gonna have the South Korean rockets on license

[flat copper]

I’m reminded of a time when Willis Lee wanted the Bureau of Ships to install a bunch of AA guns on all ships in the USN, but they were very hesitant to do so because they were worried about how sea worthy the ships would be with so many guns on board. The guy that Lee sent had clarified to them that the letter had only said “the procurement” of AA guns, and the Bureau signed the letter.

However, when Lee’s guy came back with the signed letter, he made one last edit “the procurement and installation”.

[shrewd pecan]

but I don't think that includes 227 MM rockets

[random trench]

@desert agate I just realised

[desert agate]

no LRASM-SL?

[random trench]

When I said the Italian navy was crippled at Taranto

I was wrong obviously

But not completely

[tough quail]

woe

unde be upon ye

[autumn sorrel]

[manic latch]

J-20 without canards is sexy af

[random trench]

Taranto crippled Italys BATTLESHIPS mainly

That’s it

[tough quail]

(it didnt)

[maiden citrus]

[desert agate]

for a few weeks lmao

[tough quail]

^^^^^

[random trench]

But still crippled 😕

[tough quail]

the battleships were mostly repaired very quickly

[eternal veldt]

...Littorio was quickly repaired

[tough quail]

like

by this logic

[eternal veldt]

The only true loss is Cavour

And even then, she was salvaged and work was done on her

[random trench]

They had a broken leg

[tough quail]

i was crippled by tripping and falling over a few days ago

until i stood back up

[tight wolf]

ok finally finished reading the 10 reasons why japan wasnt close to surrender

[random trench]

You need crutches

[eternal veldt]

To get 65mm AA guns and DP 120mms

[desert agate]

guy drops a spanner: OH GOD THE NAVY IS CRIPPLED

[eternal veldt]

You just straight up gave Italy a chance to beef Cavour up even harder

Until 1943

[tough quail]

MORE POWERFUL

[thorn trail]

wasn't Taranto very shallow and pretty easy to recover from

[tough quail]

god

[random trench]

Yurd

[eternal veldt]

It is

[shrewd pecan]

2943?!

[tough quail]

why is italian AA so fucking based

[autumn sorrel]

Yes

[tough quail]

it was rad in the late 30s all the way until now

[random trench]

I mean the Italians DID lose a whole battleship

[eternal veldt]

But, Littorio sank in mud

[desert agate]

it was like Pearl but the damage was minimal and easy to recover from

[random trench]

Which I mean isn’t a whole big deal but

[eternal veldt]

Again

[maiden citrus]

we did it guys we got their battleships

-nevada shows up with boom sfx-

[eternal veldt]

Cavour was refloated

And fucking repaired

[thorn trail]

2943 Cavour? Someone to fight SB Yamato

[flat copper]

I thought the story I told a few minutes ago would get a laugh here.

[eternal veldt]

It is not a hull loss like Oklahoma and Arizona

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/lGqQ3Zq7lx8

[random trench]

I also was brushing up and the reason why the Royal Navy struggled so hard to beat the Italians was because the Italians were specifically ordered not to engage in pitched battle

[shrewd pecan]

everyone thinking we gonna end up with rad looking space battleships

[desert agate]

yeah thats fleet in being

[eternal veldt]

The RN in general is fucking strained in resources

[tough quail]

the royal navy can pitch deez

[autumn sorrel]

Fleet in being is still a valid concept back then

[shrewd pecan]

but deep down we all know we're gonna be stuck with the space combat cylinder

[desert agate]

[manic latch]

Uss Elon Musk

[tough quail]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-burning-hell-pain-gif-17379863

[maiden citrus]

already on it

attaching pylons to secondary hull

[desert agate]

please die

[thorn trail]

can we get Project Orion battleship

[manic latch]

It will happen

[random trench]

As you can see I need to read more

[manic latch]

James Webb

[tough quail]

i will blame you for it personally kremlin

[random trench]

I used to know this like the back of my hand

[eternal veldt]

I should also note that Matapan's disaster had to do with Sansonetti

[desert agate]

if it happens im shooting it down

[thorn trail]

We need more pylons to help the protoss

[shrewd pecan]

everything is gonna look like this

[maiden citrus]

you have to be notable to get a ship named after you

[tough quail]

my man

[desert agate]

reminds me of something

[manic latch]

Same

[maiden citrus]

not just buy companies and rename them with your x brand

[random trench]

USS Zendaya

[desert agate]

we dont have a USS Ford so we wont get a USS Elon Musk

[maiden citrus]

the ships only need to move against the waves

little more

[random trench]

Yurd

[eternal veldt]

See, the solution is to have Earth become a radioactive wasteland

Then you need to design a spaceship that needs to land on another water type planet

[tough quail]

i like how this guy didnt know enough about france to know anything past the suffrens

[eternal veldt]

Ez

[tough quail]

and didnt know enough about italy to

even try

[manic latch]

Yup

[eternal veldt]

Hold on

What about the Suffrens?

[tough quail]

no armor

[limber dune]

poor france and italy always gets screwed despite being the major naval powers

[maiden citrus]

sufferings

[eternal veldt]

I mean, that's pretty much the Suffrens

[maiden citrus]

it's kinda hilarious how france either did like

no armor

or

[autumn sorrel]

2nd rate power

[maiden citrus]

and only or

[tough quail]

yeah i mean

[maiden citrus]

world class armor

[eternal veldt]

There is high compartimentalization and ER/BR separation

[random trench]

I do have a question regarding the Regia Marina

[tough quail]

yeah im glad the la gals dont exist

or algerie

[eternal veldt]

But that and French metallurgy in 1920 is

[tough quail]

or god forbid fucking richelieu

[eternal veldt]

Die

[random trench]

Did they ever at all see the need for aircraft carriers

[manic latch]

Aquila

[maiden citrus]

I mean if we're going off by just a few ships most memes break

[manic latch]

Impero

[desert agate]

well they were working on a few so yeah

[limber dune]

compared to fucking germany or russia? they're leagues above them lmao

[maiden citrus]

like how iowa is uh

the fastest bb

[random trench]

Interesting

[desert agate]

problem was uh

[tough quail]

that said i would argue carriers for the RM is

[desert agate]

regia aeronautica

[tough quail]

completely useless

[random trench]

I just never really heard of any notable ships

[random trench]

Yurd

[eternal veldt]

Aquila, Sparviero for Italy

[random trench]

And the war being so close to home that it really wasn’t needed

[tribal mortar]

This is fascinating, I had zero clue about this. Thanks

[eternal veldt]

Joffre, Painleve for France

[desert agate]

RM/RA rivaly puts IJN/IJA rivalry to shame

[eternal veldt]

France even had Bearn, but she...didnt work well

[tough quail]

because they dont really have the resources to completely commit to a full carrier fleet without severely damaging the rest of their navy

and

yknow

its the med

[maiden citrus]

incorrect, it allows sailors to sleep there at sea with all its bunkbeds, in case the city is bombed

[tough quail]

they have land planes

[eternal veldt]

As expected of a first carrier

[tough quail]

you know what

fair shout

[autumn sorrel]

You are comparing them with some one who don’t have a navy until just a few yrs prior and the Russian

[eternal veldt]

Horse, no

Regia Aeronautica sucks dick with Regia Marina

[maiden citrus]

aquila has all that aa for a reason

it's a reverse helicopter destroyer

[random trench]

@desert agate did I tell you that my great grandpa served on warspite

Like Unironically

[maiden citrus]

it's not a cv, it's actually a barracks ship

[tough quail]

okay, valid

[eternal veldt]

The spotting and recon being sucky is what costed Italy Matapan

[tough quail]

but i still fall back to the earlier point of

[desert agate]

you did mention it

[tough quail]

they dont have enough to commit to a large carrier wing

[random trench]

My only claim to inheritable fame

[tough quail]

1-3 carriers as an investment is basically worthless

[eternal veldt]

If you have a full fledged carrier to do the spotting, things may be different

[flat copper]

Göring pretty much single handedly fucked over Graf Zeppelin

[eternal veldt]

And Sansonetti not being a dumbass

[random trench]

Plan Z could have been everytbing

[tough quail]

well

[shrewd pecan]

Graf Zeppelin was uhhhh

[eternal veldt]

"Bait the enemy cruiser squadron into BB range"

[shrewd pecan]

fucked over by a lot of things

[tough quail]

okay, yeah, i suppose recon has an argument

[maiden citrus]

they probably need 4 or 5 to not get lonely yeah

[tough quail]

but as a striking force its kinda stinky

[eternal veldt]

chases the squadron down

[maiden citrus]

some fish are like that

[dusty kraken]

italy could've make their CV by putting engines and propellers on Corsica or something smh

[tough quail]

based

[eternal veldt]

Let me get Phoenix

[thorn trail]

Plan Z also assumes that the other nations don't plan to rearm their navy to compete with Germany

[shrewd pecan]

I keep 6 aircraft carriers for home defense

[random trench]

And also competing with Britains home fleet was practically ALMOST suicide

But British commanders are dumb

[maiden citrus]

plan z is germany if they had the space battleship yamato time dilation shipyard

[limber dune]

which really doesnt invalidate my point. still major navies.

[manic latch]

Literally only sin of Soviet Navy was starting construction of +300 too late

[flat copper]

“For Germany, a navy is a luxury. For Britain, a navy is a necessity”

[random trench]

Yes

Because island

[desert agate]

British naval officers when you provide them with a plan that assumes a competent enemy rather than the enemy making the worst possible decisions in a given situation (they just lost most of the Pacific fleet)

[eternal veldt]

Here, Regarding Italian carriers

[random trench]

I stand by the statement of “British soldiers are lions led by donkeys

[shrewd pecan]

they got caught in the middle of a massive military expansion

[maiden citrus]

if you told me britain didn't test its own guns against its own armor for immune zones I'd believe you

one, because of what spon just said

[tough quail]

tbf for germany a navy is a necessity too

[shrewd pecan]

and the navy had to abandon the most in the process

[tough quail]

its part of why they died

[maiden citrus]

two, because uh, yeah it kinda be like that sometimes

[manic latch]

T-34M

[random trench]

They didn’t need a surface navy

[thorn trail]

Just wondering: How would the N3s or G3s have faired in a WW2 scenario against if the H-class ships were actually built

[random trench]

They just needed to be decisive in what they wanted FROM their navy

[tough quail]

man if that T-34M render with the hull cheeks is real im incredibly mad we lost that

[manic latch]

Dosnt N3 has

9 457mm

[eternal veldt]

Pointless to compare on paper

[maiden citrus]

g3s would have been fine, they're basically nelson but faster

[tough quail]

(they did need a surface navy)

(the u-boats sucked ass)

[random trench]

Towards the end definitely

[maiden citrus]

n3 is quite strong and probably elicopses anything but the memey H classes

[tough quail]

no, always

[desert agate]

G-3 is Fishers wet dream and therefore kinda sucked

[random trench]

But Atp why even have a navy if you have both Britain and the US bearing down on you

[tough quail]

legendary sub 5% allied shipping sunk....

[desert agate]

ooh U-boat mythbusting

i like that

[tough quail]

at the height of u-boat activity

hell i think it was lower than 2%

[desert agate]

less than 1% per month on average

[random trench]

I mean both options would have led to defeat either way

Simply because the allies could put produce

[flat copper]

I don’t know nearly enough about WW2 subs as I do surface ships.

[tough quail]

thats my point though

[maiden citrus]

it was almost 2% but not quite yeah

[eternal veldt]

How not to lose the war

[limber dune]

its a donkey led by fancier donkey

[eternal veldt]

Dont start a war

[tough quail]

its an absolute necessity to protect their shores

[eternal veldt]

Fuck around and find out

[tough quail]

they just dont have the means to obtain it

i.e

they were doomed to lose

i.e

don't piss off most of the industrialized world with your crazy nazi expansionism bullshit

[eternal veldt]

And if you want to talk about Germans, really, I feel Panzerschiffe are the peak

[random trench]

Truth

[maiden citrus]

though to be fair with how much was being shipped even 2% really sucks

[tough quail]

correct

[eternal veldt]

Hard to find one, absurd cruising range

[manic latch]

Random Siberia jumpscare

[tough quail]

AAAAAA

[random trench]

Why is that a dope af photo though

[eternal veldt]

And absolutely bricked firepower that would fuck over any merchant protecting auxiliary cruiser

[tough quail]

that looks like a russian album cover

[thorn trail]

iirc the casualty rate for 1943 at the peak was 4% at max

never reached any higher than 1% after that peak

[random trench]

I still don’t know why devs haven’t put HMS Dreadnought in the game

[flat copper]

A bit of an exaggeration maybe

[maiden citrus]

but yeah it's nothing like ww1 and is often overstated, because people read it as tonnages and not percent of tonnages, though... like I said tbf it still does suck you lose that much, just because you have a lot doesn't mean it doesn't suck you lose some

[random trench]

One ship every 17 days

[maiden citrus]

not an exaggeration

[eternal veldt]

Because Dreadnought is fucking outclassed in the matter of years

[flat copper]

I meant Japan’s response

[eternal veldt]

In just a matter of years

The Brits made the Orions

[maiden citrus]

us ended the war with a bigger fleet than pretty much the whole world combined and cancelled an entire britain's worth of ships in 44 when they realized, wait, it's basically over lol

[random trench]

Well yes, but you wouldn’t even HAVE modern battleships WITHOUT dreadnought

[eternal veldt]

That would supersede Dreadnought in nearly everything

[maiden citrus]

yes you would

[desert agate]

every time i see this footage i notice more RAN ships

[flat copper]

I fully believe in the industrial might of the American war machine.

[tough quail]

the 1900s-1910s is naval warfare development on hyper steroids

shipbuilding advanced at warp speed

[manic latch]

Literally every place in Siberia feels like that lmao

[random trench]

Idk man I still think dreadnought was pretty monumental

[limber dune]

tfw this came from the same organization that designed the type 1934 destroyers😂

[maiden citrus]

dreadnought wasn't the first designed 'dreadnought' even

[eternal veldt]

Not just 1900-1910

1850 onwards

[thorn trail]

not really. Satsumas and South Carolinas were already on the slipways when Dreadnought was launched

[eternal veldt]

We went from sailing frigates to guns that can fire over the horizon in a short 50 years

[maiden citrus]

south carolina was designed prior to dreadnought yes

and is a better design

[random trench]

Ik

[desert agate]

oh hi Canberra

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of F-16XL & F-15E, the right aircraft won

[random trench]

Still

[eternal veldt]

Satsuma is not a dreadnought

[shrewd pecan]

but that doesn't change the fact the XL is just

rad

[eternal veldt]

The gun shortage meant she is a semi at best

[maiden citrus]

but fisher made them build dreadnought on steroids and that's why it finished so fast

[random trench]

Dreadnought was launched first

Yes

[maiden citrus]

iirc he even had stuff delivered to the docks before approval

[eternal veldt]

Even Kawachi is debatable if you are a dreadnought purist

[random trench]

And it was still a pretty damn good shop

Ship*

[desert agate]

it annoys me that some of the best footage of RAN combat operations in the Pacific is used by Americans to wank their navy

[flat copper]

Hey I didn’t make the video

[random trench]

Even if it was outclassed

[tough quail]

im pretty sure fisher built like

15% of the royal navy with his bare hands

strung out on various drugs

[eternal veldt]

You know whats fucking hilarious

[manic latch]

I'm happy with 4 R-33 Mig-31. Tho shame Mig-31M died, she would have 6

[random trench]

Homie was too angry that they weren’t miles ahead

[eternal veldt]

I saw a documentary talking about Midway once

The stock footage used is a US plane strafing Shimakaze at Ormoc Bay

[maiden citrus]

lol

[manic latch]

Imagine tiktok existed in ww2

[tough quail]

you guys still remember when WT put shimakaze in with only two turrets

[shrewd pecan]

sorry Krem, this is a Sukhoi channel

[tough quail]

rude

foxhounds are fnuy

[random trench]

https://tenor.com/view/fighter-jet-flying-airplane-plane-gif-17766438

Gripens on top

[limber dune]

must be working with some 1950-era secret documents

[shrewd pecan]

one chance at life

[thorn trail]

lmao that's funny

[random trench]

Canard Aircraft on top

[shrewd pecan]

Gripen

[maiden citrus]

'we put her in historically accurate'

[eternal veldt]

No

Its more the false belief that all IJN DDs ditched their turret Bs for more AA

[random trench]

The gripen is possibly one of the best aircraft in its price range

[eternal veldt]

The fuckbuckets did that, the Kageros did that

[random trench]

Pretty damn cheap for a fighter

Comparatively

[eternal veldt]

So surely Shimakaze would do it as well, right?

[shrewd pecan]

which Gripen?

[manic latch]

F-35 exists

[shrewd pecan]

that argument falls apart when you're talking about

[maiden citrus]

it's still funny to imagine the sekrit dokuments had a smudge and they couldn't make out the turret

[random trench]

PRICE RANGE

[shrewd pecan]

the top end of the Gripen family

[flat copper]

Who would win

The most advanced Japanese DD that is essentially the next evolution of the torpedo boar with enough torpedoes to match the name

Or

One fletcher class destroyer where half of the weight is made of it’s captains balls of steel?

[random trench]

DO YOU KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE THE F-35 IS

[limber dune]

well, did the yugumos exist when they added shimakaze?

[manic latch]

35 is still more cost effective lmao

[desert agate]

Gripen is about as expensive as an F-35 per unit

[shrewd pecan]

the JAS-39E is almost as expensive

as the F-35A

[random trench]

This is true yes

[manic latch]

CHEAPER THAN A NEW F-16

[random trench]

However

[thorn trail]

the F-35 is actually as cheap per unit

[eternal veldt]

I'll tell you how to sink shimakaze

[random trench]

Wait

Hold

[flat copper]

Ok the Johnston was sunk, but Shimakaze still missed all its torpedoes

[desert agate]

its somewhat cheaper in operating costs but the capability gap is worth it

[eternal veldt]

Very easy, .50 bmg

[thorn trail]

yeah

[random trench]

I’m thinking of block 1 f-35

[eternal veldt]

And a couple bomb near misses

[shrewd pecan]

the JAS-39E is 89 million per

[desert agate]

block 1 F-35 isnt even combat capable

[shrewd pecan]

while the F-35A is about 80 million

[eternal veldt]

Shimakaze is so lightly built, she just flooded herself to death

[maiden citrus]

shimikaze is worse than fletchers in many, many ways

[tough quail]

mods are asleep

post wide flankers

[flat copper]

🤣

[thorn trail]

Didn't Finland recently select the F-35 and they found the Gripen to be more expensive per unit

[alpine onyx]

Shoulda made Shima more sturdy

[manic latch]

I name thee, Yak-38M1M

[eternal veldt]

Lets be honest, Fletcher is basically cheating compared to everyone

Tfw a Fletcher has more broadside AA weight than your fucking dedicated AA cruiser

[thorn trail]

I remember the Finnish report saying that the Gripen was no more cheaper than the F-35 while losing in capabilities

[flat copper]

Don’t fuck with the tin cans

[random trench]

Yurd

[maiden citrus]

yes but it's still funny people might thing they weren't very good just due to how many got built

[random trench]

Though my all time favourite aircraft is still the euro fighter

[limber dune]

didnt even get the opportunity to face the man of steel since she was damaged in a collision and was stacked with survivors from sunken ships lmao

[random trench]

Despite not being a 5th gen aircraft

Shit still fucks

[maiden citrus]

reminder fletcher also has more aa throw weight than bismarck

[eternal veldt]

If it isnt good

You dont build it in numbers

[shrewd pecan]

being able to fling 8 meteors is honestly

[eternal veldt]

Industry skill issue

[shrewd pecan]

quite a nice feature to have

[random trench]

Yurd

[eternal veldt]

Thats why you dont build the Sims in hordes

[random trench]

PIRATE sensor on to

Too*

Top*

[thorn trail]

I wonder what was the worst DD to be mass produced

[flat copper]

I fucking love those little ships (relatively little)

[thorn trail]

*DD class

[desert agate]

clemson

[eternal veldt]

Many contenders here

[maiden citrus]

good question

[limber dune]

she was strafed to death, it wasnt just two near misses.

[eternal veldt]

Ehh...wouldnt say Clemson

[maiden citrus]

clemson? what

[shrewd pecan]

just gotta wait on JATM to actually be a thing thats in service

[tough quail]

[eternal veldt]

Strafes and near misses caused her boilers to flood and explode

[alpine onyx]

Hatsuharu, until they realized that at least a third of the armament had to go

[eternal veldt]

A dead ship in the water then just dies

Also, time to piss off Sirene since he's here

[manic latch]

My secret form when Soyuz gets hurt

[eternal veldt]

ahem

Type 1934

[maiden citrus]

I was going to ask if the german ones count as mass produced

[alpine onyx]

Do I need to get my bingo chart?

[random trench]

I’m trying to find a point in time in which I know a huge amount about

[desert agate]

stop this schizophrenia please

[random trench]

To where I genuinely don’t look stupid

This is a matter of pride

[eternal veldt]

Be humble then

[thorn trail]

Ok I know Sirene is gonna wack on me but was Shitzig really the worst CL of ww2

[maiden citrus]

it's more interesting to always be learning than always show off

[random trench]

Actually you know what

[desert agate]

not everyone knows everything
my SME is Australian history so god help me when the chat talks about other stuff

[eternal veldt]

No

Sirene will agree wholeheartedly with you on Shitzig

[random trench]

I’m a business finance major

[alpine onyx]

1934s weren't truly mass produced, they were this sort of first badge of botes

[eternal veldt]

Its the Type 1934 I think he may contend with

[flat copper]

I’ve still yet to learn every detail about my favorite ship (Enterprise)

[random trench]

I can tell you the ins and outs of any type of loan, mortgage or financial agreement

[maiden citrus]

I mean yeah you said a clemson is the worst mass produced dd when they're so solid they were used for tons of jobs even in ww2, but I forgive you

[desert agate]

military economics is based

[eternal veldt]

And I'd argue the Type 1936As as well

[maiden citrus]

which one, if you need NX-01 schematics I have some good ones

[random trench]

Here’s how you finance a war

[thorn trail]

So was Shitzig the worst CL of ww2 or was there another ship that can contend this title

[random trench]

Go into debt

[desert agate]

id just argue that theyre pretty underarmed for the time

yeah they have shittons of torpedos

but thats about it

[alpine onyx]

My hatred for Shitzig is too strong to accept any other contender as worse

[maiden citrus]

most dds at the time only have a few 4'' popguns

[limber dune]

japanese CLs👀

[tough quail]

TIL you can make space ship designs for cheap by just pulling the masts off of SSBNs and using those

[alpine onyx]

Even tho Agano should be just as bad

[eternal veldt]

Was about to say Agano

[desert agate]

most RN DDs of the period have at minimum 4 guns, some as many as 5

[flat copper]

I was about to fucking confuse Benson and Clemson

[desert agate]

clemsons have 2

[eternal veldt]

Wouldnt really count the 5,500 tonners

[shrewd pecan]

everything will all eventually become space cylinders

[maiden citrus]

and clemsons have good range, good asw design, and the ability to be upgraded to have a 6 gun broadside

[limber dune]

oyodo is worse

[shrewd pecan]

space subs

[manic latch]

Never

[eternal veldt]

Oyodo is, eh

SubRon flagship

[limber dune]

built for something so niche that they never could use her for her intended purpose

[desert agate]

sorry, 4, 2 on the wings

[eternal veldt]

The real based move is to raze Oyodo

Then put 24 100mm duck guns on it

[desert agate]

which like

[eternal veldt]

Circle Five my beloved

[desert agate]

for a class coming into service in 1919, against a V/W class which is not only younger but also more capable

idk

[tough quail]

correct take

[thorn trail]

Speaking of AA, would it have been possible to just remove the superstructure off a CL hull and just slap all the guns on it

[tough quail]

fellow 10cm enjoyer

[thorn trail]

Like use it purely as an AA barge

[eternal veldt]

No

[limber dune]

removing the director?

[tough quail]

you wouldnt be able to aim it at anything usefully

[limber dune]

goodluck hittinga nything

[eternal veldt]

A turret weighs much heavier than a supersrructure

And without directors your guns are useless

[thorn trail]

I mena not 5in guns or smth

Just like

all the smaller AA cannons

[eternal veldt]

But why

[tough quail]

i mean, yes

it would just be kinda

awful

[eternal veldt]

The 20mm is dogshit by 1945 against Kamikazes

[maiden citrus]

more capable how? it's less sturdily built, has less range, far less torpedoes, and in correct configuration also has less firepower

[eternal veldt]

So much so even the 40mm is barely acceptable

And more importantly, cramming that many assets on a single ship is putting everything in a single basket

[limber dune]

kitakami moment

[eternal veldt]

Better to split it between ships

[manic latch]

Soviets used the hull they created for Soyuz class torpedo system testing as AA platform

[tough quail]

oh my god i forgot about that thing

[random trench]

See I Unironically know more about tanks than I do about ships

[maiden citrus]

as for aa they both suck but its also equal

[alpine onyx]

Even built for her niche role, Ooyodo as an individual ship was significantly better than Agano

[eternal veldt]

Kitakami, what a shitshow

[desert agate]

is a Clemson really more sturdily built than a V/W?

[maiden citrus]

clemsons have reinforced structure yeah

[alpine onyx]

Agano was just an awfully designed ship, using awful pieces

[manic latch]

Ye

[maiden citrus]

to the point they can even house 5''/51s

which is a very powerful gun

[eternal veldt]

When your 40 torpedos are so bad they took half of it off and delegated you to TRANSPORT duty a few months into the pacific war

[alpine onyx]

Ooyodo may have a botched plan in mind, but the end result is still a workable ship

[eternal veldt]

Truly Bantai Kessen

[flat copper]

I actually feel sorry for that.

[manic latch]

She never sunk and did her mission lol

[limber dune]

tfw they cant even give you all the tubes and torpedoes you needed to be the overhyped torpedo cruiser

[eternal veldt]

Yes, Yamada, this is a 40 torpedo tube ship

No, we are not fighting, get into the fucking oil drum

[tough quail]

see this is why im baffled when people go "but the ww2 soviet navy isn't interesting :(" when they do batshit insane shit like this

[maiden citrus]

'we did it!'

-crowd cheers-

'so anyway, time to undo it'

-crowd sighs-

[desert agate]

id argue that an all centreline armament of guns and torpedoes makes the V/W considerably more space efficient and also gave them considerably more reserve displacement for upgrades and the like

[thorn trail]

can I ask what V/W means

[tough quail]

literally V/W class

[alpine onyx]

V- and W- class destroyers

[tough quail]

the names start with v, then w

[random trench]

I was trying to find what the British navy was good at routinely, because my opinion on the Royal Navy is pretty negative

[thorn trail]

Oh British

[eternal veldt]

I mean, uninteresting Soviet Navy

[thorn trail]

I thought V/W was a single class

[alpine onyx]

Vampire is most famous one probably

[eternal veldt]

You guys proposed a soviet montana

[random trench]

Anti submarine warfare was something we were good at

Which is nice

[limber dune]

wait till you hear the j/k/n class

[eternal veldt]

JKN

[thorn trail]

I thought it was an abbreviation for a class or smth

[desert agate]

it was

[limber dune]

ah mb

[eternal veldt]

LM are their own

[maiden citrus]

that's possible, though the clemson does have large superstructure facilities (that are strong enough to mount 4 guns and 2 aa guns on!) so it's not as if it doesn't have mount points

I don't know what the full load of a v/w is fairly

[desert agate]

the V/W class is a single design, all the names just start with the letters V and W

[thorn trail]

Like I thought V and W stood for some words

[random trench]

Volkswagen

The ship

Yes

[maiden citrus]

british dds are often named after letters

[eternal veldt]

Most British DDs follow the alphabet system

[random trench]

Nowadays it’s just type xx destroyer

[eternal veldt]

Exceptions to ships like Tribals

[maiden citrus]

tribals are kinda based

[random trench]

Eskimo noises

Type 83 destroyers are fun

[manic latch]

I do hate my memory Tho. Sometimes I forget the anchor weights of Soyuz or her wooden deck weight

[random trench]

Why would you need to remember that

It’s such a specific detail

[thorn trail]

Yeah I get that the british did alphabets. My brain is just dead af rn that my first thought was that V/W was an acronym like how WV is for West Virginia. Brain first defaulted to reading that as Virginia/West

[manic latch]

It's equal to knowing your wife's shoe size

[random trench]

Which is an 8

[manic latch]

It will be very useful for gifts

[eternal veldt]

[desert agate]

depending on her time period, at her maximum Vampire fitted 6x2 pompoms, 5 .303s (1 Vickers, 4 Lewis), 1 12 pounder,

[maiden citrus]

now I just imagined west virginia sailing into battle backwards due to turbo electric shenanigans

[random trench]

I look at my fiancées feet a lot because I always look down

[maiden citrus]

causing the japanese to identify her as virginia west class

[thorn trail]

[manic latch]

Exactly

[random trench]

Feet

Mmmmmm

[desert agate]

she also at various stages fitted 2x2 Breda 20mm guns

[flat copper]

Wait what?

[eternal veldt]

Nishimura's last vision at Surigao on Yamashiro's bridgr

[thorn trail]

hold on only vanguard had the sextuple bofors mounts right

[random trench]

There’s only one ship which I actively know a lot about

That being warspite

[eternal veldt]

West Virginia steaming at him , butt first

[desert agate]

in fact you can actually see her Breda guns in this picture

[maiden citrus]

there have been so many clemson modifications I'm unsure where to start

[desert agate]

Breda guns which are entirely unnoficial

[maiden citrus]

but that is cool

[thorn trail]

"I'm trying to sneak by but I'm dummy thicc and the sound of my stern is alerting the enemy"

[eternal veldt]

Clemsons also have the funny of being

APDs

(and subjected to war crimes from an IJN favourite)

[limber dune]

this looks more like a transliteration of the japanese name for them tbh (unless they just phonetically wrote it as virginia west)

[maiden citrus]

very strong flush hulls and super asw shape/design, love me some clemsons

[random trench]

Someone answer this question for me

Why is it that using oil as ship fuel was something revolutionary

[limber dune]

weight

[manic latch]

I even searched most of CIA archives online to find the documents about her. Which I did

[random trench]

In context of the arms race between Britain and Germany

[eternal veldt]

Oil burning is efficient

[maiden citrus]

it holds a lot more energy than coal per weight, and is easier to work with

[desert agate]

looking at a random Clemson, HMS Chesterfield, fit 3 76mm guns and 1 .30cal for AA

[limber dune]

also it doesnt produce terrible smoke

[random trench]

And somehow the Germans just never thought of this

[eternal veldt]

And yea, coaldust gets everywhere

Worst case scenario, Tsushima

[desert agate]

but tbh it wouldnt surprise me if someone squeezed a bunch more on

[eternal veldt]

Coaldust ignited by HE, setting whole ship ablaze

[thorn trail]

No more like Germany didn't have the resources to do that

[eternal veldt]

I now see why Tsushima gets talked about so much

So much nuance in it

[thorn trail]

Germany didn't have that much oil while coal was pretty abundant

[limber dune]

germany is rich in (admittedly shitty compared to british) coal

[random trench]

That makes more sense

[manic latch]

@random trench Sovetsky Soyuz's CIA file

[random trench]

LMFAO

[eternal veldt]

Germans...literally went straight to diesel

For maximum cruising range

So much so that even Japan considered Diesel for the Yamatos

[maiden citrus]

standard clemson for the time was like, the 3'' and four machine guns

[random trench]

Im also a firm believer in that a 76mm tank gun is better than an 88mm

[maiden citrus]

but sometimes

Six 3-in or 76mm/50 Mk 20 were installed as well as two 12.7mm/90 or cal.50 Browning AA HMGs.

[eternal veldt]

Unfortunately the Japanese diesels sucked dick

[maiden citrus]

sometimes you just throw caution to the wind

[limber dune]

well that explains why they only gave diesels to the second-line destroyers and kaibokans

[random trench]

Sherman tanks always fun

[manic latch]

A4: No

[eternal veldt]

Yes and no

[manic latch]

A4 sucks

[eternal veldt]

Nisshin, a seaplane tender, uses diesel

[thorn trail]

Wait quick question regarding AA: Which ships carried the octuple pom-poms and the sextuple bofor mounts

[random trench]

Do you need a maid of honor? There’s a Sherman for that

[eternal veldt]

Its the ones on Taigei that is an absolute shitshow

[flat copper]

Yamato had less cruising range than battleships built twenty years before her.

[eternal veldt]

And those are the ones intended in the Yamato design

[manic latch]

And uhh how much heavier Yamato is

[limber dune]

ah, not really familiar with the japanese auxiliary, good to know.

[manic latch]

Also

[flat copper]

Doesn’t help her case.

[manic latch]

Yamato's cruising range had wrong information irrc

Let's see if I can find

[eternal veldt]

Vanguard had sextuple bofors

Octo pompom is widespread, many ships had it

[thorn trail]

only vanguard had it?

[maiden citrus]

clemsons were truly versatile

[thorn trail]

which ships notably had it?

[eternal veldt]

...nearly every famous vesel of the RN

[maiden citrus]

a lot of the troop ones basically took the front two engine rooms out and installed living space for hundreds of landing troops

they're so quirky

[thorn trail]

ah s o they basically slapped it eveywhere

[eternal veldt]

Its the equivalent of the US bofors except sucking much harder

[limber dune]

actually, do you have anything about this one? might read it up someday

[eternal veldt]

Only have it in Japanese language

[limber dune]

thats fine

[eternal veldt]

And a small excerpt only

[thorn trail]

wait what was the issue with it

[maiden citrus]

pompom is a mediocre chicago piano, don't at me

[manic latch]

@flat copper ok what do you believe Yamato's endurance range is by nm?

[flat copper]

Well I didn’t memorize it sorry.

[eternal veldt]

On Prince of Wales at least, the Pom Poms had no tracers, so they could not see the shot, nor deter determined attackers

[manic latch]

Her trial results. It's around 3000NM better than her design requirements

her actual endurance is some 10,141 nm at 16.6 knots.

[eternal veldt]

And once power to that ship was lost, the pom poms just straight up died

It speaks volumes when the AA director said the lone bofors on the back was more effective than the octuple pom poms

[maiden citrus]

pompom shell is slow, not very destructive either as I understand it, and range for the weapon size is very meh due to the slowness, also some build problems and the director is poor

[thorn trail]

Ooo

[eternal veldt]

Ah yes, HACS

[thorn trail]

How about the STAAG

which ships had it?

[manic latch]

Daring?

[limber dune]

is the pom pom the same gun that the japanese mounted on the hatsuharus and shiratsuyus?

[manic latch]

No it's British 40mm

[limber dune]

the 40mm they found terrible that they swapped it for the 25mm?

[eternal veldt]

I find it funny how the brits refused to drop the pom pom

And decided to just glue the bofors on instead

[thorn trail]

5.25in was the largest "practical" AA gun right

[eternal veldt]

Wonder how much of a logistical nightmare it is

"shells for the 40mm please"
"Which one"

[manic latch]

152mm

[desert agate]

they called it the 2 pounder

made things easier

[eternal veldt]

Right, that would help

[thorn trail]

naval gun?

[eternal veldt]

Practical wise, I think 127 is the limit

[manic latch]

Tiger and Worcester

[eternal veldt]

The 133mm is pretty awful

[thorn trail]

I'm searching 152mm AA guns and all I've been finding were army guns

[manic latch]

Search Uss Worcester

[eternal veldt]

And yes, the postwar N5 is pretty good

Mk16DP less so from what I heard

[maiden citrus]

without automation 5'' is about it yeah

[eternal veldt]

France tried ™️

[thorn trail]

Oh the Cleveland guns

[maiden citrus]

even the 5.25'' had weight and loading trouble

[manic latch]

No

[maiden citrus]

it's why the fire rate is so low

[manic latch]

Worcester guns

[thorn trail]

oh right the cleveland ones weren't DP

[maiden citrus]

not on paper

but in practice...

https://puu.sh/JM4MT.png

never let your dreams be memes

[eternal veldt]

Birmingham shot a couple down during Empress Augusts Bay IIRC

And lets be real

[manic latch]

Japan planning for 140mm/55cals for AA, on their treaty designs, was for that dp turret capable pf elevating 80 degrees,

casemates being able to do the same

[eternal veldt]

Any gun is dual purpose if the attacker flies low enough

[desert agate]

County class main armament was theoretically DP

[maiden citrus]

correct

[desert agate]

Canberra even took down a bomber with her 8in guns

[maiden citrus]

the 5''/51 even has AA shells

lol

[limber dune]

fubuki moment

[eternal veldt]

I think I heard somewhere Haruna/Kirishima was using their 36cm guns to make water columns on the SBDs after they made their runs during Midway

[thorn trail]

wait speaking of low: What's the highest altitude torp bombers can realistically drop their torps

[maiden citrus]

dang 5'' casemate with

anti air vt shells

[manic latch]

Nelson and Gremyashchy also did it irrc

[maiden citrus]

because why not

[eternal veldt]

Water bad

[desert agate]

a few hundred feet at most

[maiden citrus]

des moines and iowa also have official anti air charts

[eternal veldt]

You joke, but

Mr.Hiraga already conceived it

[thorn trail]

but in practical use how high were they when they drop?

[random trench]

I’m seeing everything aboht battleships and I’m still of the mind like “rest in shit battleships, get dunked on shitheads”

[eternal veldt]

"dual purpose casemate" on Kongou Daikan

[maiden citrus]

no I mean the 5''/51 has them

which is bizarre in a way

[eternal veldt]

With 70 degree elevation

[maiden citrus]

but also based

[limber dune]

not as bad as houston supposedly using her main guns for AA duty in one encounter because the ABDA fleet were literal rust buckets

[eternal veldt]

Yea, I know

[random trench]

This post was made by aircraft carrier gang

[manic latch]

Remember when US had 2km barge concept

[maiden citrus]

I needed it

it lets me grow beef farm at sea

[thorn trail]

floating beef farm

how much shit is that gonna produce

[eternal veldt]

Excerpt you requested

[limber dune]

let me just leave this here, cya

[limber dune]

thank you very much

[maiden citrus]

not sure about that one chief

chemical weapons and poisonous gasses torture

[thorn trail]

Oh this shit again about the bombing of japan

[eternal veldt]

Hull sagging: yes

[deep apex]

[random trench]

Ice cream ship ice cream ship

[maiden citrus]

catamaran too, based

[deep apex]

Not this bullshit again

[random trench]

ICE CREAM SHIP

[manic latch]

Mini Soviet Fren

[random trench]

What in the fuck

One missile and that goes boom

[manic latch]

It's a mini carrier

[maiden citrus]

it's short and stout

[thorn trail]

Would be funny if supercarriers went catamaran hull

I know are many terrible fucking engineering issues with it

But a catamaran hull carrier looks goofy

[maiden citrus]

just have a cv suspended on two dds

like water skiis

[tough quail]

i consider posting something this stupid a war crime

[eternal veldt]

you called?