history

[ivory ridge]

truly

[runic prairie]

A carrier based Ho-229.

The plane with wings made of laminated fucking wood is going to perform well on landings.

And not just fold up like a piece of paper.

The Reich’s finest wood glue holds it together, made by malnourished 13 year olds that managed to avoid being sent in a suicide charge against a Soviet Machine-gun.

It never even fucking flew on its own power.

It’s not even fucking stealth.

How the fuck are you supposed to fit an He-111 on a fucking carrier?

[ivory ridge]

then they wonder why they get made fun of

[delicate beacon]

You should care. I literally got warned for posting that earlier today.

[ivory ridge]

skill issue

[runic prairie]

I also love how they don’t have the carrier conversions in the “Planned and Paper ships” category. As if there was some chance they’d actually be built.

[delicate beacon]

Well they were built... But yeah I get what you mean

[runic prairie]

Ok fair, the ships existed but they didn’t see any real progress.

Also FL I was going to be larger than a Midway and have a smaller air-wing than an Independence.

[delicate beacon]

Check plan Z where they call H-39 larger than Montana/A-150

I know German ships are relatively obese but that's just eksdee.

[runic prairie]

[subtle prawn]

You're kidding, right?

[shrewd pecan]

BURN EVERY REMAINING HO-229 TO THE GROUND!

[runic prairie]

Iowa, probably, Stalingrad definitely, the rest of those, hell no.

[delicate beacon]

Nope, you can read it in the image.

[runic prairie]

Besides, the Germans routinely proved that displacement ≠ capability with their chonkers.

[delicate beacon]

Even if they mixed up displacement types it's so wrong.

[subtle prawn]

I don't think the plans from the German archives even agree with that...

[runic prairie]

World of Warships has done more damage to naval history than any other actor.

[delicate beacon]

In their defence they weren't really designed for displacement efficiency. So a direct comparison per weight gets partly skewed against German ships. Though despite this they were still overweight besides the different design approach.

[subtle prawn]

Also, the Emden mentioned is different from the two previous SMS Emdens...

Drach has had a few questionable takes from what I've heard

[maiden citrus]

very

[eternal veldt]

The Ho-229 did fly on its own power IIRC

[maiden citrus]

kancolle was the first to start damaging naval history in ways that are still felt today in a way I'd say wows doesn't try to

[eternal veldt]

Except it crashed and burned hard thanks to the fucking Jumo 004

And wooden construction

[subtle prawn]

I haven't inquired further other than a few of them included something about HMS Hood and another had to do with WW2 AA guns

[eternal veldt]

Kancolle had some minor contributions

Served with a large portion size of revisionism, granted

[subtle prawn]

Other than Yuudachi, what else?

[maiden citrus]

drach found the 5.25'' british secondary to be the best dp of ww2

and the british 15'' the best battleship gun of ww2

both of these things are extremely far from true

[eternal veldt]

Just toss whatever war crime ship that I mentioned before

Never mention their stuff, but always mention how the other ones are good girls for rescuing people

[eternal veldt]

Nooo you see shipgirls arent tied to their histor-shut the fuck up

[runic prairie]

I mean, he did show the method he used to come to those conclusions in a fairly transparent manner, so it’s not as egregious as a lot of things.

It’s fairly easy to show his methodology was flawed.

[eternal veldt]

Partially true, I've seen WoWS being used as a source more and more recently

The amount of wehrbs crying for "omg where mommy schlieffen" gave me a headache

[maiden citrus]

yeah but at least wows doesn't present an entire story for a ship that's a fabrication and entrench it into culture to where people believe it and other games copy it too, they just say it's a plan whatever that wasn't built

[runic prairie]

To this I should add that while I understand his motive (time) to away away from mounts and FC systems, the mounts that weapons occupied and the director systems that influenced them are inherently inseparable from their effectiveness.

[eternal veldt]

Yes and no, the recent Pan American line's amount of justification requires high level of mental gymnastics

[maiden citrus]

there are many, many guns better than britain's 15'' in ww2, some in ww1 even

and we of course know what the best dp secondary of ww2 actually was

[eternal veldt]

Why yes, the Americans loathed the British helping out the Pan American nations, that's why we'll sell them our most advanced cruisers

[eternal veldt]

Mexico ordered a few gunboats, it is therefore reasonable that they will order a new big 4head cruiser after that

And now the descriptions for older ships are also getting revised, including my favourite Mongrel

[ivory ridge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/12sjifc/new_ship_description_is_a_bit_questionable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[maiden citrus]

even if it's an attempt at a justification that's pretty clear it was a plan and that this ship could have been the result in a perfect scenario of dominoes, not that it existed

[ivory ridge]

[eternal veldt]

To be fair, some of Kancolle's conversions/Kai Nis at least had some historical what-if basis

The Fuso K2s, for example

[runic prairie]

The biggest mistake the companies make is they try to make individual lines for each nation other than the U.S., U.K., Japan, and maybe Italy.

Instead of having a grab-bag with minor axis/ally/neutral navies they try to make WWII Germany, a minor naval power (with the exception of subs, which are of only a couple different classes), into a major one and with similar effect on other nations.

[subtle prawn]

Hello, what about the French?

[maiden citrus]

too few stats accounted for and some majorly fudged to make tiers all that accurate

trying to make nations with few ships of a type, or none of them, into lines

so yeah, agreed

[eternal veldt]

The major problem is that WoWS is an online game

You need to keep expanding no matter what

[strong plank]

No but you don’t get it

Big land power obviously = big navy power

[eternal veldt]

Some people were also quite salty, rightly so

The devs said IJN and USN first, then RN, then others

WG: Germany and Soviets first

Look, I know there is a Germany first policy

[maiden citrus]

lol

[eternal veldt]

It shouldnt apply to a boat game

[runic prairie]

Reload times are just… arggh.

It never ceases to annoy me. Like I could be fine with the adjustments but at least be transparent about the base stats and how you’re adjusting them.

Transparency is another one of those massive problems. They don’t list sources to the degree they probably should.

[eternal veldt]

I'd also pile a bunch of "promises" in, but WG basically said "hurr durr never promised, fuck you/Acktually our game development needed it, oops", and that deviates hard from actual history discussion, so whatever

And WoWS compression in general makes things extremely hard to play, looking at you, USN CA ballistics

[maiden citrus]

wym of course baltimore and admiral hipper are roughly the same fighting power

[eternal veldt]

Hipper is about as fat as a Baltimore, skill issue /s

Stop eating so many hotdogs smh

[thorny patio]

Wth am i looking at

[maiden citrus]

the 500 tons of iron in the bottom of witchita is actually my hot dog storage, it was just listed as iron

[thorny patio]

I open discord to see what looks like Rodney on crack

[maiden citrus]

north carolina prelim, but it's argincourt

[eternal veldt]

I ought to get jaba's treaty violation emote

[maiden citrus]

[thorny patio]

Rodney ON CRACK

[strong plank]

specifically chooses Helena as the US T7 light cruiser
doesn’t give her radar

[eternal veldt]

See, Regal

it isn't even fucking Helena

[strong plank]

yeah it’s not like uh

That’s what she’s known for

[eternal veldt]

It's St.Louis

[strong plank]

bruh what

[eternal veldt]

Helena was sunk before receiving any SK radar

[thorny patio]

interesting opinion: all HMS ships are drug dealers to the Chinese ships

[eternal veldt]

Nor did she receive any dazzle pattern

The ship in the tech tree is without a doubt St.Louis herself

Get fucked

[thorny patio]

They still selling that poppy

[strong plank]

she was one of the first to be fitted with an SG surface search radar though

[eternal veldt]

See if I care - WG

You havent seen the salt from Warspite when first released

The long range sharpshooter being fucked by being the shortest ranged T6 BB

(Gun accuracy being ignored here)

[wintry moat]

Poor Warcorgi

[strong plank]

WG explaining why Helena has no radar (during the battle of Cape Esperance the position of the approaching Japanese force was revealed to the crew in a dream)

[maiden citrus]

could be worse, could be closed beta us bbs that had short range

[eternal veldt]

CBT US BB is truly

CBT

No special normalization

[maiden citrus]

funnily enough the turning was accurate and they toned it down as it looked cartoony

[eternal veldt]

33 second reload on Colorado, literally dogshit AA

Unironically used her as a 21 knot fireship

Fun times

[maiden citrus]

but us bbs are extremely maneuverable, even the nonstandards

to the point the british comment on it in a nc visit

[eternal veldt]

All BBs turning circles were nerfed in a patch

5.5 IIRC

Iowa should be able to turn on a dime, but "gameplay balance"

[strong plank]

We’ve heard your complaints about CVs

So we’ve decided to nerf them in a way that affects all of them except the new Soviet ones

[maiden citrus]

gameplay balance, the same reason azizuki 3.9'' shells kill you as fast as a nuclear reactor

despite being very ineffective surface weapons

dw we won't give them dfaa though

[eternal veldt]

Your ship taking 9 torpedo hits in a row: I'm OK

an 100mm incendiary shell hit your hot dog locker on the very stern of your ship: magazines explode

Very epic

[maiden citrus]

only shell is a time fused aa he one

kill battleships at the speed of light with rof based on the hoists, not the gun

[eternal veldt]

Its arcade, so tbh, a bit nitpicking here

[maiden citrus]

I look at new mexico and weep

what is this aa creation

[eternal veldt]

And in any event its the boat models that give me brain damage

WeeVee 44 STILL has the fucking Mark 3 radar

[runic prairie]

Tie me to a missile and launch me at WG Headquarters. I am ready.

[ivory ridge]

i dont even like playing this game anymore im just playing for collection

[delicate beacon]

Subs just dont make it fun and I keep constantly getting my fingers burned because history told me the pan is hot but in wargaming land it's the handle.

[ivory ridge]

most of my games are coop for dailies, operations for dailies and credits and ranked for steel

[shrewd pecan]

the under appreciated

also the bizarre

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1657926191087583232

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, U-858 was taken over by a U.S. Navy crew. The German CO had surrendered the sub at sea four days earlier and was then ordered to proceed to Fort Miles, Delaware. The transfer was watched over by a Sikorsky HNS-I, the first helicopter to enter U.S. military service.

Twitter · May 15, 2023, 1:49 AM

[runic prairie]

Design information on the Hypervelocity Projectile.

@spring briar

I have to say it looks incredibly similar to the 60mm guided CIWS projectile developed in the 90s.

Similar guidance, similar control mechanisms.

Here’s the 60mm for reference.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/AIAA-92-2751-HYPERVELOCITY-PROJECTILE-TECHNOLOGY-(-Bischer/3cce2bb892f0459d51d0174d0efa20f37290cc0b

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a345781.pdf

Here’s the full DTIC report.

Shit I realize that is, in fact the 60mm design.

I’m an idiot.

Albeit it is a different version of the shell.

[dapper parcel]

Lmao, hydrazine + fluorine

Gotta be in the WCGW category

why not use borane at this point

[thorny patio]

so i just found out the "beehive" gun was a real thing and.... why and how???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Shiki_(anti-aircraft_shell)

[spring briar]

How?
They filled an 18.1” shell with long tubes containing pyrotechnics
And gave it a time fuze

So it would basically act like a big shotgun to shoot down formations of enemy planes (on paper)

In reality it mostly damaged the gun and was more of a liability

[thorny patio]

in practice:

"oooooooh pretty fireworks"

[wintry moat]

Yup

[thorny patio]

it legit just looks like fireworks

japan.... whyyyyyyy

u know whats even worse? the germans outfitted TIRPITZ with this type of shell at one point

[spring briar]

Here’s a cross section of the shell (on the right)

[thorny patio]

During repairs after Operation Tungsten, the 38 cm SK C/34 naval guns of the Bismarck-class battleship Tirpitz were modified to allow their use against aircraft, being supplied with specially-fuzed 38 cm shells for barrage antiaircraft fire.

[spring briar]

Desperate times

[thorny patio]

how fucking desprate must u be?

[desert agate]

Tirpitz actually got a few kills iirc

the same cannot be said for the type 3

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/05/14/video-navy-commissions-destroyer-uss-lenah-sutcliffe-higbee-in-key-west

[dapper parcel]

What? Do you want something less credible?

[dapper parcel]

Tirpitz was good old blast frag (flak), not incendiary

[grave ravine]

It is worth noting that 14" San Shiki turned out to be quite useful during the bombardment of Henderson Field

Also damn I missed shitting on WoWS and wherbs last night

[dapper parcel]

Oh great, this is yet another wiki quotes that doesn't even exist on the cited source....

[alpine onyx]

Would be stupid not to do that. Can allocate some space for AA shells, and major threat came from planes

[spring briar]

It’s not optimal

[dapper parcel]

It was normal HE shell with time fuze chucked up front

[spring briar]

Remove tirpitz’s turrets and replace with rotating AA platforms

[spring briar]

Pretty much an enlarged version of this

[autumn sorrel]

So type 3 exist for which caliber? I know about 460 and 410 but any sub caliber and does the 155 use normal time fuze or type 3?

[spring briar]

460mm, 410mm, 203mm and 127mm

[autumn sorrel]

Why 127mm? Isn't just better using time fuzed?

[spring briar]

Time fuzed is better regardless

[grave ravine]

Doesn't it exist for the 14" guns as well

I'm fairly certain the Kongos used it during the bombardment of Henderson Field

[spring briar]

Yeah

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQOpP1AI4qY

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1658106444238012419

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD 1935, a 52-year-old William Halsey became became the oldest person to earn naval aviator's wings. RADM Ernest King had offered him command of the carrier USS Saratoga if he took an air observer course, but he chose to complete the aviator course to better understand pilots.

Twitter · May 15, 2023, 1:45 PM

[runic prairie]

It’s never too late.

[grave ravine]

OK, H-39 immunity zone lol

its actually not immune to ww1 era 16" guns at 20k yds

and thats ignoring the weakness of the upper belt

[manic latch]

Against what tho

Deck or belt hit

[grave ravine]

Belt

if I remember properly

Id have to check though

[manic latch]

Hmm

Hope this is the true figure

I mean sure at certain angle that turtleback will be just a flat 120mm
But
Shell has to pen through now angled 180 or 300mm belt first to hit it

[grave ravine]

might have been belt then

[delicate beacon]

300mm flat belt?

[manic latch]

With 120mm Turtleback after it

So shell will likely lose high penetration levels after penning 300mm then hit the turtleback with less effective way

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Am I wrong Rich

Do I amuse you

[spring briar]

Ofc not

Just don’t hype it up too much

[delicate beacon]

The belt seems less tall than contemporary designs though

And by relying on your last line of deck armour you have nothing to catch spalling.

[supple sandal]

Nothing new

But I just want to post it

[shrewd pecan]

Everything truly went down hill when we retired M81

[strong plank]

ucp and its consequences

[manic latch]

I prefer Type 96

Will be replaced with Patria

[ivory ridge]

now put a big gun on it

otherwise cringe

[manic latch]

Then you make it IFV not Apc

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

Oh no

[grave ravine]

@shrewd pecan not promo material, but close enough IMO

[shrewd pecan]

put it into the thread

[manic latch]

With a US Navy lieutenant at the helm, five Soviet Sailors enjoy a ride in a miniature aircraft carrier during their visit to the base. In Norfolk for a five-day goodwill visit are the Guided Missile Cruiser MARSHAL USTINOV (CG 088), the Guided Missile Destroyer OTLICHNYY (DDG 434) and the Replenishment Oiler GENRIKH GASANOV. This is the first time that ships of the Soviet navy have visited an American military port. July 1991

[spiral cedar]

Speaking of Soviet sailors visiting the US

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586216580463984650/1107796780990595133/50_Chrome.png

[eternal veldt]

Its a uniform 120mm turtleback across H-39 IIRC.

[delicate beacon]

I wanna see penetration tests on P1047 armour

[slate blade]

you need to know where the sub is to hit it with a hedgehog so sonar is pretty much mandatory. it has significant advantages over depth charges.
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Hedgehog_(weapon)

[charred coral]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs414i24wuE

[charred coral]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/dambusters-commemorated-80-years-after-daring-raid/ar-AA1bdNaq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=dc111bdca2204e23a819f94e4fa1842b&ei=16

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQVlnzMAlA&ab_channel=AustralianArmy

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/OnthisdayRN/status/1658336472900968448?s=20

On This Day RN (@OnthisdayRN)

#OnThisDay 1956 Destroyer HMS DIANA steamed through the nuclear fallout created by UK atomic tests off the Monte Bello islands. She then repeated the task the following month. The Chiefs of Staff wanted to know how the Ship and men would fair. Many died early or suffered.

Likes

201

Twitter · May 16, 2023, 5:00 AM

[ivory ridge]

bruh

[spring briar]

remembers french nuclear tests

I feel ya bud

[thorn trail]

Curious question: What are these weird hatch looking things on top of the turrets

[desert agate]

probably to assist with loading ammunition

[thorn trail]

Ah

[wintry moat]

What the?

what's with the comically small tip?

[spring briar]

dunno

[wintry moat]

Huh

Oh those are tiny

I just noticed

[spring briar]

yes

tiny shell

big cartridge

[wintry moat]

Thought they a lot bigger

I was just listening to Drach’s St. Nazaire raid

the poor bastards in Cambletowns bow as she went off

[spring briar]

it happens

anyways ironclads

ironclads in AL would be interesting since it would shift around which faction is major and which aren't

[wintry moat]

Hmm

How about, one for each major nation?

just as a thought exercise

[delicate beacon]

Dutch Ironclads

[wintry moat]

I was offering you range of motion

Oh

Fuck me I cant read

Just clicked

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684721152739770371/1108151832993341580/FwRxX97WcAAvHR0.png

[spring briar]

No

[ivory ridge]

https://c.tenor.com/y7isUX6gGv8AAAAM/taihou-taiho.gif

[solid mango]

What cursed being had just been presented upon my two retinas

saves

[grave ravine]

That is photoshop right?

[ivory ridge]

yes

[lavish fable]

yo a fellow botes sufferer

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/Fighterman_FFRC/status/1658305649367740416

Fighterman_FFRC (@Fighterman_FFRC)

It's #TomcatTuesday again!

Likes

249

Twitter · May 16, 2023, 2:57 AM

[charred coral]

https://tenor.com/view/goggles-on-pete-mitchell-maverick-tom-cruise-top-gun-maverick-gif-25325507

[desert agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR4F65RJoPs&ab_channel=TheAustralianArmour%26ArtilleryMuseum

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1658777293441957889?t=tigBiAUv16QKBOOxT4otHQ&s=19

Navy Lookout (@NavyLookout)

BREAKING:

Royal Navy’s Type 31 frigates to be fitted with Mk41 vertical launch system

https://t.co/RzyNv6MoBl

Likes

234

Twitter · May 17, 2023, 10:11 AM

[autumn sorrel]

Isn't there are that SPAA system that use Oto Melera 76mm?

[eternal veldt]

Otomatic?

[thorny scarab]

Mind explaining exactly what it is you posted here?

[eternal veldt]

Two men enjoying their company, clearly.

[thorny scarab]

And how does it relate to History?

[desert agate]

one of those men is Saddam Hussein who is objectively a major historical figure

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, that's one

[remote monolith]

couldn't trace from where that exact photo came from, but it's not exactly rare in forpol, the other side of the curtain did it quite often

[manic latch]

It's called Socialist kiss yes, Chkalov kissed Stalin once in that way

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/TheDreadShips/status/1658445258403741696?t=hqZP8gvLVP_mkCYnmb7lZQ&s=19

Dreadnought Holiday (@TheDreadShips)

Just seen that the officer in charge of Hegle Ingstad not crashing into things has been found guilty of crashing into things.

Nautically trained followers of this account might recognise the subtle clues that first attracted the attention of the authorities...

Likes

816

Twitter · May 16, 2023, 12:12 PM

[remote monolith]

aye

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrVhCfE8R2Q

[rapid junco]

@ivory ridge

[ivory ridge]

nice

[autumn sorrel]

Do USN have a better crew training for AA than IJN? I remember USN use an old dreadnought as a gunnery school for AA training, do they train sailor there or gun battery master?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/05/japan-is-looking-for-a-new-class-of-ffm-frigates/

[strong plank]

Preliminary armored flight deck CV design I found while dicking around on the NHHC site

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8U83ZKzFFU

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1658857965338673153

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1987, USS Stark (FFG-31) was hit by 2 Exocet missiles fired by an Iraqi aircraft. 37 sailors were killed and another 21 were wounded. Iraq claimed the pilot mistook the frigate for an Iranian tanker. The crew's valiant damage control efforts saved the ship from sinking.

Twitter · May 17, 2023, 3:32 PM

[wintry moat]

Damn

The US DCP works it's magic

once more

[grave ravine]

The Propeller of U-20, the submarine that sank Lusitania

Reconstructions of various Viking ships at Roskilde, I kinda forgot to take pictures in the museum of the original ships

The keel of another ship they just started constructing

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yU3ALfVcp0

[spring briar]

10" shell from Huascar

[manic latch]

Rich

War thunder changed 356mm Type 91 APC and Common Type 0 explosives types from shimose to Type 91

Is it better

[spring briar]

much better

lol

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/AndreiS49747209/status/1658758405866102789

Dacian Draco🇷🇴🇪🇺 (@AndreiS49747209)

🇷🇴The submarine program has been approved by the Parliament

Romania will have 3 submarines, not less

Because the program is 2 bilion €, exactly divided by 3 we get 700 mln $ the price for an AIP Scorpene

Likes

238

Twitter · May 17, 2023, 8:56 AM

[humble mulch]

[thorn trail]

Lmao Tea appears when Romania is said

[spring briar]

@tough quail

[tough quail]

excellent

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1658926717455482882

Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24)

BREAKING:

The Romanian parliament's Defense Commission today approved the purchase of 54 second-hand M1A2 SEPv3 tanks from the US for USD 1.1 billion.

Poland is also buying 250 tanks of the same model, which is the most advanced Abrams version there is.

🇷🇴🇵🇱🇺🇸

Twitter · May 17, 2023, 8:05 PM

[humble mulch]

[subtle prawn]

Bruh, do you have some sort of Romania detector or something?

[thorn trail]

Romanian shill

[spring briar]

@tough quail

[tough quail]

yes!!!

Oh so that's what Romania did with tates money

[manic latch]

Yo we aren't still under that stupid "avoid modern vehicle" rule right

Since it clearly reverted back to normal

[subtle prawn]

That rule didn't even last a day here

[tough quail]

technically it's just anything from more than two decades ago

so basically nearly every modern vehicle in service

but it was also a case of bored power trip modding so who gives a shit

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NATO/status/1658733683795214337

NATO (@NATO)

Retweet to join us in celebrating our Ally #Norway 🇳🇴 on its Constitution Day

📸 Traditional Norwegian folk dance and fiddle music performed by sailors on deck of KNM Fridjof Nansen 🎶

🤝 #WeAreNATO

Likes

1495

Retweets

293

Twitter · May 17, 2023, 7:18 AM

[spring briar]

@manic latch

[manic latch]

I don't know man

[spring briar]

Elevation on the regele was 45 degrees however

So might well be possible

[humble mulch]

So hear me out

If they hit a swell

[spring briar]

They don’t need to

As you can see

The range at 30 degree elevation is already 21km

23 seems feasible at 45 degrees

Which was their max elevation

[humble mulch]

Wait is that from naval weps?

[spring briar]

Yes

It’s the 12cm/50 mk.5

[humble mulch]

Coolio, that's probably more accurate then my romania shit then, can't remember what the numbers were when we last talked about it

[spring briar]

I just find it weird from a fire control standpoint

Like was Karkhov even moving lol

[humble mulch]

Yeah they were both moving

[spring briar]

Unless it was an exceptionally lucky or well aimed shot

You know what they say

[humble mulch]

Yeah it's probably pure luck

[spring briar]

Aim small, miss small

But navweaps does believe the numbers at 30 degrees of elevation to be exagerated

And I feel the same

[delicate beacon]

12cm Mk 5?

[spring briar]

Yes

[delicate beacon]

Wait where are you looking on Navweaps?

[spring briar]

Same as used on the dutch dds

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSweden_47-50_m1924.php

[delicate beacon]

Yeah no

Cant be No. 5

That one isn't made by Bofors

[spring briar]

But it is mk.5

[delicate beacon]

Wait what

But Bofors didn't use Mks.

Where's the numbering from?

What weapon was on the Regale?

[spring briar]

120mm/50 Bofors Mk.5

[delicate beacon]

But navypedia said Mk. 4

I'm sure I've seen the blueprints aroind

[humble mulch]

Regina my love

[spring briar]

[delicate beacon]

Ah hold on

I need to check the Bofors publications from my private archive.

[spring briar]

[humble mulch]

Oh yeah, I don't think there's shell data for this either

[spring briar]

Shell

[delicate beacon]

Speak for youself

[spring briar]

Ping me if you find info

Imma go sleep

Goodnight

[delicate beacon]

Done cross referencing

The breech is most definitely that one of the 12cm SK L50. And the extra hoop matches too.
The Bofors values for this gun were 24kg 900mps 30elev/10depr 19.500m.

Dutch values go in quite more detail except range

[humble mulch]

So 19.5km, not 21.5km

[delicate beacon]

Where did you get 21,5km from?

[ivory ridge]

i saw san typing but didnt notice that was sang

i was about to

do stuff

[humble mulch]

Navy weps

[ivory ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/plink-wide-cat-plink-cat-meow-gif-27396868

[humble mulch]

That's what richy was looking at first

[delicate beacon]

Wait which page

[humble mulch]

Zero idea

[delicate beacon]

Were you looking at the 21,3k yards?

[humble mulch]

[humble mulch]

This is what he posted so whatever one has this

[delicate beacon]

Kanon van 12cm No. 4
120mm cannon of 6390mm (53¼ cal) in total length and 6000mm (50 cal) in barrel length. The gun weighed 4060kg, the mount with aiming devices 1490kg. Sleds weighed 1450kg without shield and pivot 1300kg. Shields weighed 310kg. Total weight was 8610kg. Elevation was +30°/-10°. Recoil force was 30.000 and length 580mm. Rifling was 4915mm long of which the 36 grooves were 1,5mm deep and 6,97mm wide with 3,5mm lands. Twist rate was 1 in 3,6m or 30 in calibres.

The following fixed rounds were used:
HE Springgranaat L4,2 of 24kg filled 20,17kg empty with a 18,67kg filled casting for a 42,67kg round to be fired at 900mps.
Exercise steel shell Granaat voor Schietoefening (staal) L4,2 of 24kg filled with a 16,92kg filled casing for a 40,92kg round to be fired at 800mps.
Exercise cast iron shell Granaat voor Schietoefening (gietijzer) of 24kg filled with a 12,60kg filled casing for a 36,60kg round to be fired at 500mps.
Starshell Lichtgranaat L4,2 of 23kg filled with a 12,57kg filled casing for a 33,57kg round to be fired at 500mps.

Bofors cannon for use on the Admiralen-class destroyers. Planned elevation was +30°/-10°. This 12cm “L50” cannon fired a 24kg shell at 900mps using smokeless gunpowder macaroni No. 16. Max pressure was 3100 at 15 degrees or 3200 at 28. Bofors publications gave a 8900kg weight firing a 24kg round fired at 900mps at +30/-10 elevation for a maximum range of 19.500m.

Kanon van 12cm No. 5
120mm cannon of 6310mm (52½ cal) in total length and 6000mm (50 cal) in barrel length. The gun weighed 4265kg, the mount with aiming devices 2240kg. Sleds weighed 2010kg without shield and pivot 945kg. Shields weighed 310kg. Total weight was 9770kg. Elevation was +30°/-10°. Recoil force was 30.000 and length 500mm. Rifling was 4915mm long of which the 36 grooves were 1,5mm deep and 6,97mm wide with 3,5mm lands. Twist rate was 1 in 3,6m or 30 in calibres.

Rounds fired were as No. 4

8 models were produced by HIH and fit on Banckert and Van Nes. Elevation was +35°/-10°. Born from a need for local production after the first world war. The cannons were interchangeable with No. 4 and their fire control, crew and aiming devices were operationally identical. Munitions were produced by Bofors and Artillerie-Inrichtingen. The raw material for production was tested thoroughly and with modern equipment. Although barely passing the minimal requirements, the end product turned out to be highly qualitative. Eight guns were ordered for Banckert and Van Nes.

Specifications of a by HIH described export 12cm L50 were as follows: 24,0kg HE shell with ca. 2,7kg burster fired by 9,0kg propellant charge in 9,5kg case for a 42,5kg cartridge fired at 900mps for 991mt muzzle energy. Piece weighed 9000kg; 4265kg for the barrel with breech. The jacket was screwed on the breech. The 120mm calibre 6310mm long had a maximum pressure of 3200 atm and constant twist of 30 calibres. Mount weighed 4735kg with an elevation range of 35°/-10° and traverse range of 360°. The gun was mounted 1475mm above the lower base plate side and the recoil length of 500-540mm. Brake reaction was 30.000kg.

Oh hey need to fix the elevation for No. 5

Remind me tomorrow

[humble mulch]

Mombo number 5

[delicate beacon]

So yeah, if the Mks are following the Dutch scheme it cant be Mk 5.

It's probably just a Bofors M/1924 aka No. 4.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1658979355517698049

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 2006, USS Oriskany (CV-34) was sunk off the coast of Florida to create an artificial reef. Navy engineers estimated that it would take 5 hours for the carrier to sink after the charges were detonated, but the ship slipped beneath the waves after only 35 minutes.

Likes

122

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 17, 2023, 11:34 PM

[mystic basin]

[rough oar]

*TIL wreck of Titanic still being studied to this day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XtefrMNhg

[deep apex]

Of course

[thorny patio]

We have to study it as much as we can. The wreck is located in what amounts to a giant sand dune... Eventually it's either going to rust away into nothing or get buried in sand

[manic latch]

@tough quail Abrams with Russian Arena APS systems, 1998

[autumn sorrel]

Arena already exist since 1998?

[manic latch]

Designed in 1993 yes

[tough quail]

it's one of those dissolution era projects that's been played around with ever since

[manic latch]

https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1658865278447411201?t=aN400hrZh6Cs_YlV4Ulpww&s=19

UK Defence Journal (@UKDefJournal)

British aircraft carriers will soon have, in addition to their F-35 jets, "highly capable, long range and long endurance surveillance and offensive strike platforms".

https://t.co/kfBevllxR4

Likes

1154

Retweets

125

Twitter · May 17, 2023, 4:01 PM

[desert agate]

https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/anzac-frigates-to-gain-capability-lose-weight

[remote monolith]

glad they're finally paying attention to the health of these frigates and put them on intense exercise programs

[ivory ridge]

after years

of people thinking the only pic we had of this vehicle was a photoshop

we got a second pic

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684721152739770371/1108399738358874183/20230516_223559.jpg

the rambo lambo

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deibquob5bA

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1659246205233135616

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 2001, the French Navy's flagship FS Charles de Gaulle entered active service, becoming the first nuclear-powerer aircraft carrier outside of the U.S. Navy. This is FS Charles de Gaulle with the world's first nuclear carrier, USS Enterprise.

Twitter · May 18, 2023, 5:14 PM

[grave ravine]

I think the discussion about efficiency v resilience really gets to the crux of the issue that Western militaries are having in a variety of sectors, the years of focusing on counterterrorism and the cost cutting post Cold War have led to us being in a very poor position to react to an actual hot war, as has clearly been demonstrated by how slow we have been to ramp up munitions production in response to Ukraine.

[tough quail]

Is that a fucking lm002

What gun is that???

[spring briar]

@spiral cedar

[ivory ridge]

KBA 25mm

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/511918-lamborghini-lm002-kba-25mm/

[tough quail]

Holy shit that's awesome

[spring briar]

British 12" APC and German 12" APC looking
EXTREMELY
similar

[grave ravine]

Bruh what is this goofiness

Zuiho is from the same class as Shoho

[spring briar]

what

[grave ravine]

Ryuho is a different class of submarine tender converted into aircraft carrier

and Chitose and Chiyoda weren't even submarine tenders before they were converted

And I checked fleet tech, this isnt just the wiki being silly

[strong plank]

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1659087494988681216?t=cCGL6-P58lsrISyvxyjCWg&s=19

Thenewarea51 (@thenewarea51)

Absolutely surreal, the 🇯🇵 ShinMaywa US-2 💪💦https://t.co/n4U8HgVLyN

Likes

3307

Retweets

494

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 18, 2023, 6:44 AM

[slow raft]

KILL MECHANISMS

There's a Fear Factory song called that somewhere I'll wager

[tough quail]

airfield defeat weapon

use normal words please mic

[runic prairie]

Never

[dusty kraken]

"If the US was so good why isn't there a US 2?"
Japan:

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1659190680881602560

Генеральний штаб ЗСУ (@GeneralStaffUA)

May 18 - Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the Crimean Tatar Genocide and Day of struggle for the rights of the Crimean Tatar people - 79th anniversary of the deportation of the Crimean Tatar people in 1944.

Likes

315

Twitter · May 18, 2023, 1:34 PM

[manic latch]

https://aviationweek.com/aerospace/aircraft-propulsion/rolls-royce-rolls-out-worlds-biggest-commercial-engine

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/05/18/australian-navy-faces-major-hurdles-in-building-aukus-attack-boats-says-defense-review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iNhQeuLK2Y

[manic latch]

Sure, it's performance was good during a battle

But why people act like allies would just watch Me 262 instead start doing their own eventually

[maiden citrus]

germany, putting a new fighter into the war in the final days in small numbers: this will change the war

the allies, who have been winding down war production for 2 years due to the war being all but decided: oh?

[delicate beacon]

5 years?

[dapper parcel]

Even if Allies literally doing nothing I don't think it'll be any different...

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/RCN_MARLANT/status/1659260914305048587

MARLANT (@RCN_MARLANT)

Benvenuti! Italian ship Virginio Fasan (F591), a Carlo Bergamini-class frigate of the @ItalianNavy arrives in Halifax today for a port visit. Welcome! 🇮🇹⚓️🇨🇦

Twitter · May 18, 2023, 6:13 PM

[hearty sigil]

The allies once tried to make an aircraft carrier out of special ice

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyyZGG043P0

[thorn trail]

How much bigger is the UltraFan compared to the GE90

[grave ravine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYpvtU1SDEk

[solid mango]

5 38

[grave ravine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJCfeipvIQ

[zinc abyss]

https://youtu.be/d5jjKb9MiYY

[desert agate]

bro wtf is this

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1659605853429809175

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

It's National Bike to Work Day. Prior to WWII, the U.S. Paramarines experimented with folding bicycles that leathernecks could carry as they jumped from planes and then use to peddle into combat. The bike program was never approved, and the Paramarines were disbanded in 1944.

Twitter · May 19, 2023, 5:04 PM

[spiral cedar]

https://twitter.com/USN_Submariner/status/1659287682785091584

🇺🇸𝗢𝗹𝗱 𝗦𝘂𝗯𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗲𝗿⚓️ (@USN_Submariner)

Construction of the #USNavy's last diesel boats began #OTD in 1956 as the keel was laid for USS Barbel (SS-580), where the DBF pin originated. They were the most chonky class of submarines the US ever built...mathematically speaking.

Likes

117

Twitter · May 18, 2023, 7:59 PM

[spring briar]

the balkans

or do you mean that random gameplay vid

[desert agate]

the latter

[grave ravine]

The yugoslav breakup wars saw a truly fascinating mix of weapons

including the above naval mine rolled down a hill

[spring briar]

Bombardment of Ancona

[lament quartz]

BB-61

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_EpdlaJPpQ

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1659312710272577542?t=lRYxH8KxKpM09TjpBLF3gA&s=19

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Junior Sailors on USS George Washington Endured Some of the Toughest Living Conditions in the Military, Says New Navy Investigation - USNI News
https://t.co/D8RUGnp0gD

Likes

257

Twitter · May 18, 2023, 9:39 PM

[runic prairie]

Not a cellphone in sight, just people living in the moment.

[eternal veldt]

@alpine onyx need some help with two things.

1. Any clear photos showing this section of Spee, top down like so?

2. Any clear photos of her late 1938 neutrality markings, especially on the turret front plates?

[thorn trail]

Wait neutrality markings? What was that for?

Was that due to the uh Spanish Civil War?

[eternal veldt]

Yes.

trying to confirm if the turret face was painted. My guess is no.

[manic latch]

@tough quail Mommy Flanker feeding little Tejas

[tough quail]

slurp

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

Also congrats on getting first spike equipped vehicle

Not a looker but

[tough quail]

Nah I dig it

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/TheBaseLeg/status/1659913062235897856?s=20

Mike Yeo 杨启铭 is also at post.news/thebaseleg (@TheBaseLeg)

Spanish F/A-18 crash near Zaragoza. Pilot said to have ejected

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 20, 2023, 1:24 PM

[ivory ridge]

Using the chinese QN the F&F is a gimmick, but at least the freccia in on a much better platform

[manic latch]

Good ol Puma should get it soon as well

Wish Germany did BMP-2M style

2 launchers of both sides

[ivory ridge]

It wont

It will be a new vehicle

I dont know why the fuck people expect gaijin to modify the existing one

That's not how this game works

https://twitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1659934661013905410?t=hSk-XDiE2se5TdwWVTLuYw&s=19

A-129 Mangusta (@NichoConcu)

🇮🇹🇪🇸🇯🇴
B1 Centauro.

Twitter · May 20, 2023, 2:50 PM

https://twitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1659934669511467008?t=zfAsGFTUiJwX2CxwaT2HmA&s=19

A-129 Mangusta (@NichoConcu)

Bonus 🇺🇸🇷🇺🇧🇷

Twitter · May 20, 2023, 2:50 PM

[sullen canyon]

You do realize this is #history right?

Or... Is there an actual Bismarck II ship out there?

[manic latch]

No

Doesn't make sense

[sullen canyon]

You might be better off asking that either in #al-lore or #al-general there though

[west rock]

ok i dilit

oh this channel is cool with non AL related history too?

[sullen canyon]

Pretty much as long as it doesn't get political and was something that isn't considered as certain recent events, it should be okay

If anything just check the pins

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YArog-tTr10

[tough quail]

so have we still been talking about new equipment I can't remember

[delicate beacon]

Whats there to talk about again

[tough quail]

uhh

[humble mulch]

New gearlab stuff?

[delicate beacon]

Just Gimme these

[humble mulch]

There's the UR 100mm dd gun frin Sakura

[tough quail]

irl stuff I mean

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/AndreiBtvt/status/1659684326718468096

Andrei_bt (@AndreiBtvt)

"Kurganets" is dead, long live "Manul"
Rostec reports that the latest Manul infantry fighting vehicle will soon enter production. The vehicle is a BMP-3 converted for front placement of engine. 40 years have passed and finally realized?

Likes

1222

Retweets

167

Twitter · May 19, 2023, 10:15 PM

[tough quail]

well that's what I was gonna post

funny dragoon redeemed

kumnuts was too tall and goompy looking imo

[subtle prawn]

Richie, what was that that I just saw?

[spring briar]

What?

[spring briar]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OET99SBbiwM

@manic latch

[manic latch]

Not a fan of this old but

Good

[spring briar]

Wdym not a fan of this old

You mean you do not like this ship comrade?

Are you a foreign spy?

[manic latch]

I dont like ships that old Rich

My limit is 1910s, anything older is just OK at best for me

[delicate beacon]

*surrounds Kremlin with Pantserschepen*

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

…

Disappointment

So you don’t even like the pre dreads?

[delicate beacon]

Finding ship from Bureau Scheepsbouw is hard

[manic latch]

Yes

They are ugly

Predread more like prebeauty

[delicate beacon]

Silence, Dreadaboo

[wintry moat]

Some predreadnoughts are pretty

[spring briar]

Most are

If not all

They are cute and beautiful

[spring briar]

Look at this beauty

[manic latch]

Steam Iron

[subtle prawn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/13mlinb/a_helicopter_from_uss_america_dropping_off/

[spring briar]

Petition to ban krem from having soyuz until he appreciates pre dreadnoughts

[strong plank]

A mild amount of tomfoolery

[wintry moat]

Then there's the Charles Martels

The patchwork fleet

[manic latch]

If predreads were so good why they got replaced

[humble mulch]

I prefer age of sail

[delicate beacon]

Signed.

[grave ravine]

Ah yes, the only ships we should care about are the newest and greatest ddgs and ssns lol

[manic latch]

Congress: True

[hallow roost]

Anyone have details on the new fw190 variant used in the game? (A-6/R6)

Apparently it's a "bomber destroyer" equipped with rockets (well, finally another german fighter with rockets that's not a PR exclusive)

[frozen kestrel]

Just a quick question: Anyone have any high quality blueprint-esque images of Bismarck? I'm modelling various ships in Blender, and Bismarck's on my queue

[delicate beacon]

https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/23397aae-3e2a-42c6-a232-a86b1132611c/

[delicate beacon]

@there you go

I suck at pinging.

[delicate beacon]

here you go

[frozen kestrel]

Thanks

[manic latch]

210mm HE rockets designed for anti infantry, no clue why Manjuu added for navy

Likely a testing for Tiny Tims

It's either very good against light targets or heavy targets depend on thinking of Manjuu

[hallow roost]

ah, it's supposed to be anti infantry rockets, how odd.

it's most likely the same rockets as the bf109g since it's a german plane.

[manic latch]

Uhhh no

Bf109G in game use AP panzerbrechend L/4.8

86mm AP rockets

While this rocket of Fw 190 is 210mm HE

[hallow roost]

i mean that was my hypothesis for the ingame version, not the irl one

maybe you're right, seems likely it's a HE rocket

[ivory ridge]

Jesus christ the new DD added to the game is heavier than a mogador

lol

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863493888358088725/1109616479063789608/image.png

[manic latch]

German designs are usually overweight for their purpose yes

Still weird choice to do 1937J

more likely Z52s are hidden for UR

I think this design is not even in wows as well, I do admire Manjuu's wider research on designs now

[delicate beacon]

Their wider research seems to be only for a selective country though

[manic latch]

Perhaps

[delicate beacon]

Though to be fair, the information world is littered with references to the wunderwaffles.

It could do with more attention for the rest of the R&D projects.

Like BUSTER

[manic latch]

We got Kursk, Project X cruiser, one of rarest projects for a naval fan to have knowledge of

So I highly trust Manjuu now

We should make "blueprint iceberg" for navy meme

Deeper= more unpopular projects

Montana/H class is surface level

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/910690876169281587/1078341189171957800/caption-6.gif

[delicate beacon]

In the Depths we acknowledge the Dutch are in AL because of all the 40mm mounts, the Yat Sen gun and Snorkel.

[manic latch]

Dutch is like at deepest ye

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

Or African battleship design we won't ever know

[ivory ridge]

the deepest is the existence of france

even the devs forgot about it

[manic latch]

59°59'33.8"N 30°31'39"E

Maybe I should tattoo this coordinate

Only thing left of Soyuz on this world after all

[ivory ridge]

[shrewd pecan]

[spiral cedar]

You should

[tough quail]

what is that anyway

[ivory ridge]

i think

[delicate beacon]

406mm gun in a single turret

[tough quail]

huh

didn't know that was an actual thing

[ivory ridge]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/59°59'33.7"N+30°31'39.3"E/@59.9927682,30.5273795,142m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d59.9926944!4d30.5275833

[tough quail]

I did wanna go to Leningrad someday so I'll put that on the list of NEAT STUFF to look at

[manic latch]

She was in defense of Leningrad

Soyuz fought without existing

[tough quail]

with the unfortunate face of a really goofy gun house

[manic latch]

Intersting fact someone keeps painting the gun every few year or so, sometimes it's rusted, sometimes it's white, sometimes it has camo

[autumn sorrel]

Reading back and found out Krem don’t like pre dread and ironclad

[tough quail]

I can understand ironclads but predreads are funny

[grave ravine]

Like how can you not like this kind of goofiness

Or the floating hotel

[humble mulch]

me and the boys after a few drinks at the bar

[hallow roost]

And Habbakuk too

[hallow roost]

wows has the regular type 1937 (gustav julius maerker) and type 1938 (felix schultz)

and also, is the new purple AA gun the oerlikon mk v?

[strong plank]

meanwhile CLC-1

[dapper parcel]

Kaneda 500k when?

[ivory ridge]

A classic

[desert agate]

mostly ended yeah

[remote monolith]

I really should obliterate my old Quora account cause my email keeps getting these ridiculous questions

pretty sure I saw one asking why Hitler didn't just paradrop into Washington, London and Moscow to end the war quickly

[thorn trail]

Average HOI4 playewr

[autumn sorrel]

How do I delete/stop quora notice?

Those thing really clogged up my mail box

[alpine onyx]

Something is deeply off there, because the photos I see of Spee don't have the markings like that...

[eternal veldt]

Because these are her 1937 cruise pictures.

The photo I posted was after International effort to the Civil War suspended.

[alpine onyx]

I can find Scheer pics with those markings

With unpainted turret fronts

[eternal veldt]

That's what I surmised. Thanks. Still need info on the stern platform though.

[alpine onyx]

Deutschland's front plates also have no paint

[eternal veldt]

Thing is, those stripes don't extend all the way to the edge of the side plate. Spee's is, for some reason.

I'll just have to put my faith in this.

[alpine onyx]

I'm afraid I can't find pictures of that aft platform either

Forward control post, or side positions

Easy

But the aft platforms are usually not photographed in detail, neither on them nor on the ugly sisters

[eternal veldt]

That's unfortunate, because I'm trying to confirm if that section is bare-steeled or planked

or a mix as presented somewhere else.

[thorn trail]

those dots on the hull are windows right

[eternal veldt]

Dots on the hull?

[eternal veldt]

Naturally, yes

[thorn trail]

So why were there a lot of them

[thorn trail]

actually why did Cruisers have a lot of windows

[eternal veldt]

Ventilation

Even battleships had a lot of them

[thorn trail]

I'm looking at some BBs as well and the more modern BBs had lesser windows on the hull

[eternal veldt]

Because it started to be realized that they are a watertight integrity hazard

Helena as launched was full of port holes, after Pearl Harbor, she was immediately sent to Mare Island and almost all of her portholes are welded shut with ocatgonal pieces as shown on the right

Coupled with the implementation of artificial air ventilation on US ships, it made the ship unpleasant, but not completely devoid of fresh air at the very least

[thorn trail]

Oh

[eternal veldt]

The IJN also went the same way

Weld the lower row shut, blank a few on the upper row

[thorn trail]

Yeah but it seems to me that at the same time the British and the Americans had less portholes, the German kept the same amount relatively speaking

[deep apex]

You'd be surprised how fast flooding can be exacerbated by portholes

[eternal veldt]

The German surface force....not that active after the debacle of Barents Sea

[thorn trail]

Yeah the only large german ship I can see that had relatively less portholes was the Bismarcks

[alpine onyx]

Don't think that the portholes were really recognized as an issue by the Germans

Lützow's report after she got torpedoed and took a list didn't mention portholes

Neither did Eugen's or Lützow's report on the respective stern torpedo hit

[eternal veldt]

I think your butt dangling off is a bigger problem than portholes at that point

[west rock]

looks like a cruiser, which ship was this

[eternal veldt]

The aforementioned Luetzow and Eugen, after both got torpedoed

[west rock]

torpedo dmg is crazy. Pretty impressive that eugen managed to survive the war after that

[eternal veldt]

That's fairly minor compared to some of the beatings some ships received.

Don't worry, they'll buff out

[alpine onyx]

Eugen didn't like the idea of getting sunk during war

So she just refused

Can't be legally sunk without consent

[zealous gull]

Hey all, I have to do a class presentation project of the HMAS Melbourne collisions with HMAS Voyager and USS Frank E Evans (I got allocated the topic), does anyone have good resources about it beyond Wikipedia? Also ideas of interesting ways to present it?

[dapper parcel]

Wiki's Bibliography is pretty comprehensive already, official reports is already listed (and linked) at least

You may also want to familiarize yourself with COLREGS first

[eternal veldt]

@desert agate

[zealous gull]

Rules of the road? Sounds like a good call, I’ve got a copy lying around already

[maiden citrus]

spon is very educated on the topic, I'd await his response

[charred coral]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXmMT4sETu8

[desert agate]

Gimme a few hours I'm at work

[zealous gull]

sweet thanks for that

[shrewd pecan]

The American extremely early morning shift vs the Australian night shift

[zealous gull]

Now that I'm reading more into these accidents, seems like the COLREGs are definitely quite important to get an understanding of

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

@humble mulch Soobrazitelny II

Project 20380 are likely my favorite corvette class especially by looks

[autumn sorrel]

Krem, what was soviet assessment of Kiev class aviation “cruiser”?

[daring galleon]

Huh, USS Mindoro (CVE-120)'s Insignia kinda looks like... a Minnie Mouse shipgirl?

[manic latch]

Soviets actually wanted a supercarrier that would be similar to Kitty Hawk class of US. Project Orel was designed as a Soviet Kitty Hawk in some way. But she was way too expensive for Soviet liking so they went for a much smaller beings like Kiev class. Good thing it allowed passage of Turkish straits for being cruiser, so Black Sea was easy to enter or out.

They weren't fully satisfied of course. That's why Kuznetsov class and later Supercarrier Ulyanovsk projects were borne. Unlike Kievs who is forced to use Vtol Yak-38s, they would have much more plane options

So Kiev class is when you are going to a wedding for dance, but you can't have the beautiful girl as partner so you go with someone much more "humble"

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1660318873164423169

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1982, HMS Ardent was struck by several bombs dropped by Argentine aircraft during the Falklands War. The ship sank the next morning with 22 sailors killed. It was the third Royal Navy ship named Ardent to be lost to enemy action in the 20th Century.

Twitter · May 21, 2023, 4:17 PM

[manic latch]

The Sea Cat anti-aircraft missile system failed to lock onto the attackers, who also outmanoeuvred the 4.5" gun by carrying out their run out of its arc of fire.

[thorn trail]

Ok why didn't the US go with wing turrets on early dreadnoughts? and why did it take a while for the British and German dreadnoughts to remove wing turrets

[manic latch]

I think it's only modern ship that was lost to dumb bombs

[thorn trail]

what CA guns had the fastest fire rate? and how fast were they

[grave ravine]

The US was a little late to building dreadnoughts, having embarked on a fairly significant pre dread building program in the 5 odd years before Dreadnought was built, and Congress was thus slow to appropriate money for US dreadnoughts, and when they finally did so they implemented a significant tonnage limitation to save on costs. The USN thus wanted a ship with similar capabilities to foreign vessels in terms of armor and firepower on the broadside, and at least decent speed, and on less tonnage than other country's entering dreadnoughts. The solution the USN arrived at was placing all the turrets on the beam, and making them superfiring over one another, something the USN had already been experimenting with before.

[strong plank]

Probably the Des Moines class’s 8”/55 mk16

[thorn trail]

How fast

[strong plank]

8 shots per minute per barrel

triple turrets

[thorn trail]

hmm

How many turrets did the Des Moines have

[strong plank]

3 triple turrets

?

[thorn trail]

Oh ok ok

[grave ravine]

I thought the Des Moines class got up to around 12 rpm with burst?

[spring briar]

I wouldn't say that the US was late with building dreadnoughts

USS South Carolina is actually one of the first

and predates the Nassaus

[thorn trail]

Did Atlanta class have the most guns of a light cruiser?

Or was there another light cruiser with more 5in guns?

[grave ravine]

Also AFAIK the Brits and Germans stuck around with using wing turrets for a bit because they gave significant firepower in the forward arc, though I could be wrong about that

[strong plank]

Huh

Navweaps has it at 10pm

[grave ravine]

I thought the Nassaus entered service before the SCs?

[strong plank]

The base atlantas had the most iirc

the Oaklands removed the wing turrets

[spring briar]

yes
but that doesn't mean the USN wasn't early with Dreadnoughts

[grave ravine]

ok

[spring briar]

the South Cal got laid down in 1906

the nassaus only 1907

[strong plank]

And the Worcesters had 6 inch guns

[thorn trail]

I'm asking because I have this weird ass monstrosity in UAD

12 5in dual gun turrets

Was wondering if any CLs of any navy had more guns than the Atlanta class

[strong plank]

Finally

The CEO of air defense

[ivory ridge]

https://www.itamilradar.com/2023/05/20/italian-navy-units-outside-the-mediterranean/

[thorn trail]

CA is also pretty weird

[spring briar]

however what the USN was quite late with was Pre Dreadnoughts

[grave ravine]

yeah we only started building modern ships in like 1890

[spring briar]

they didn't build any oceangoing ironclads either really

1865-1888 in the USN was just sleepy time

[grave ravine]

yep

Classic 19th century who needs a navy US

[manic latch]

She was already suffering

Her sub class removed 2 side turrets

[alpine onyx]

In a broadside Mogami has more

[grave ravine]

in cl form, yeah the brooklyns too

[alpine onyx]

Mhm

[thorn trail]

Ooo

[grave ravine]

Atlanta can only get a 14 gun broadside, while the Mogamis (in cl form) and the Brooklyns get 15 gun broadsides

[spring briar]

Dream job

[spring briar]

Nice rust

[manic latch]

I think rust looks worst on Zumwalt because how flat her surface is

[spring briar]

I forgot these existed

[manic latch]

[thorn trail]

How far from each other was Beatty and Hipper from each other when they started battle Running to the South?

[gloomy current]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster

@limpid flare

[limpid flare]

That doesn't look very healthy

[gloomy current]

118 dead people tend not to be

[ivory ridge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xl0C6K2Nug

one of the few Perun videos that i can actually post here

[grave ravine]

Nuclear Space Lasers!

Another based Teller project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excalibur

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyus_(spacecraft)

[grave ravine]

The Cold War was such a meme

[manic latch]

It was

[delicate beacon]

Not for Europe though

[manic latch]

Soviet sailors look at the American command ship Catoctin (USS Catoctin; AGC-5), which arrived in Sevastopol during the Yalta Conference.

[grave ravine]

Thats fair, the cold war was generally a bad time for anyone caught in the middle, I just meant a lot of the wacky tech the US and USSR made to combat one another is a meme

[thorn trail]

Probably a stupid ass hypothetical, but as I was reading about naval logistics and how underway replenishment was pretty vital in the Pacific theatre for the US, what would change if the British Navy had perfected underway replenishment back at the start of ww1

[grave ravine]

I mean AFAIK most of their ships were still coal fired in WW1

[thorn trail]

Yeah I know

But throw that into the air and assume that somehow they were able to perfect it even with a lot of ships using coal

[grave ravine]

Britain was probably the best in the world and underway coaling

and had a massive fleet of colliers

[thorn trail]

What would change in the strategic picture for the British Navy? Since afaik they rarely did underway replenishment in WW1

Since in my head the idea was that they could put the Grand Fleet into sea for a long ass time relatively speaking

[grave ravine]

but coaling while underway was just not practical technologically, generally ships stopped to do it because its just way more efficient

I don't imagine it would change the strategic picture all that much either, if its only Britain with the capability

[thorn trail]

If Germany had the capability somehow tho

Let's switch then

If it was Germany that had it

[grave ravine]

Would probably make German raiders a lot more annoying to deal with

[thorn trail]

Wouldn't change the picture for the North Sea I presume

[grave ravine]

no

Britain may invest more in cruisers and battlecruisers

but the Grand Fleet was never at sea on operations for that long, because they only ever needed to sortie when the high seas fleet was out

[thorn trail]

Okay another stupid hypothetical. Let's say the main battle line of the Grand Fleet was replaced with the BBs and BCs that were in WW2. Would the British have the advantage? Assume all the tech for the WW2 ships were in well working order

So basically the entire battle line would be replace by the Nelsons, KGVs, Vanguard, R-class, QE class, Renown class and Hood

[grave ravine]

Well yeah, ww2 battleships were just better than ww1 ones, tech marches on and all

[thorn trail]

But they'd be outnumbered by the High Seas Fleet right

Oh nvm

the High Seas fleet would be outnumbered

[manic latch]

They will score more hits and fire faster while also having better armor

[thorn trail]

thought the British had less than the High Seas Fleet had in ww1

[manic latch]

British having smaller fleet than Germany?

Hard to imagine

[grave ravine]

Britain would actually still have more battleships

[thorn trail]

No I mean i thought Britain in WW2 had less BBs/BCs than Germany had in total in WW1

but I counted wrong

Britain had a total of 20 or so BBs and BCs

[grave ravine]

though if you also take away the British battlecruiser squadron, then they are in a serious hole

[thorn trail]

You'd only lose Hood and the Renowns tho?

that's only 3 ships relatively speaking

[grave ravine]

No I meant if you take their ww1 battlecruisers

[thorn trail]

Ah

Yeah no I meant the entire British capital ship line

I counted something like 18 BBs in WW2 (well not all at once)

[grave ravine]

ok yeah then while the Brits lose a couple ships, its probably a net benefit because the new ships are more capable, and also substantially faster than the High seas fleet

[thorn trail]

5 QEs, 5 R-class, 2 Nelsons, 5 KGVs, 1 Vanguard

[grave ravine]

Most they had in commission at once would be 15 I think

[thorn trail]

US had 26 iirc

[grave ravine]

wait no I forgot about Royal Oak

[thorn trail]

Wait 25

[manic latch]

I mean

They did lose 3 BCs because of lack of armor no?

[grave ravine]

I meant that Britain had far fewer battlecruisers in WW2 than they did in WW1, if they lose their ww1 battlecruisers than they are in a deep hole, 3 battlecruisers is not enough, and while they could send the KGVs to fill out the battlecruisers, then the battle line starts getting thin

[thorn trail]

Then again

What ships in the HSF would be able to match the KGVs

[grave ravine]

none of them

any HSF ship is very dead if it encounters a treaty battleship

[thorn trail]

if Hipper's line met the theoretical fast line of Hood, Vanguard, Renown class, they'd still be outclassed right

[manic latch]

None

Isn't largest guns they have is 305mm

[thorn trail]

Hood, Vanguard and the 2 Renowns would be 4 ships vs Hipper's 5 ships of the Scouting group

[grave ravine]

Yeah probably, having 1 extra battlecruiser will not deal with the substantial firepower advantage the british ships have

[thorn trail]

Yeah no this is a massacre for Hipper in this theoretical

[grave ravine]

yeah

[thorn trail]

15in

2 Bayern class BBs

[manic latch]

Ah

[thorn trail]

Ok yeah what's the smallest group of WW2 battleships from any nation that you'd be comfortable with winning Jutland against the HSF's battleline

[manic latch]

Smallest group?

[thorn trail]

I mean which specific ships

[manic latch]

I'm betting on Yamato and Musashi couple

It's what they are designed for

[grave ravine]

I mean they are designed to each fight two or three standards, but in this case they are way outnumbered

[manic latch]

But they aren't against standards however

[thorn trail]

This is assuming that the screening force for both sides still exist aka the "theoretical" replacement fleet still has the British cruisers and destroyers by their side

Most of the HSF aren't Superdreads tho

[grave ravine]

I mean they might run out of shells before dealing with the HSF

[thorn trail]

they only had like 2 ships classed as Super-dreads

[thorn trail]

Ok the assumption as well is that the British escort forces are still with them

So basically only the BB and BC lines get replaced by these ww2 ships

[grave ravine]

I think the Yamato's are still at a disadvantage here, for starters even if you only expect them to sink the enemy BB and BC line, they still have to be sinking ships faster than 1 ship every 10 salvos, assuming they are carrying a full load of AP

and any German BBs or BCs not engaged could be tearing up the British cruiser and destroyer fleet

[thorn trail]

So just 2 Yamato's are a no go?

[grave ravine]

which could snowball into them having to deal with significant light forces as well

[thorn trail]

How about 4 Iowa's

or 4 Iowa's and 4 SoDaks

Or a combination of those 2 classes

[grave ravine]

4 Iowas and 4 Sodaks stomp them IMO

heck even just say the 2 Yamatos and 2 Nagatos ought to be able to do it, unless like Bayern gets a lucky shot on one of the Nagatos

4 Iowas should be able to do it as well

I mean fully upgraded to ww2 spec QEs may be able to do it

[thorn trail]

Ok while we're on the topic of ww2 ships in Jutland, would adding the Scharnhorst into the HSF change anything?

I presume the Scharnhorsts would be with the scouting group of Hipper, which would be now a 7-6 advantage for the HSF

in the run to the south

[grave ravine]

Yeah, Beatty isn't going to have a good time, not that he was already

[thorn trail]

it would be way worse if I said it was the Bismarcks lol

[grave ravine]

yeah, Bismarcks would be a real problem, though I still think in the end the Brits probably would have had a strategic victory at Jutland

[thorn trail]

The reason I'm asking this is because there are too many alternate what-ifs of "what if modern ships sent to ww2"

I want to know if WW2 ships sent to ww1 that aren't carriers would change anything

[grave ravine]

I mean I think the upshot for WW1 is that unless it allows the HSF to decisively defeat the RN, its not changing the course of the war all that much

In my personal opinion anyways

[thorn trail]

The reason why is because the only ships at Jutland that had the same caliber of guns as the Bisko's are the 4 QE's and 2 Revenge's

[thorn trail]

And yes I am sleep deprived rn that I'm thinking of these wild ass scenarios

[grave ravine]

yeah, but thats still 6 15in gun ships to the German's 2

[grave ravine]

me too lol, I got to head to bed

[thorn trail]

Bisko should have the speed advantage against the entire battlecruiser line tho

and also the firepower advantage

[grave ravine]

Yeah, if the Biskos go with the battlecruisers its trouble for Britain, in that Britain is gonna have a real shitty time in all the battlecruiser actions

battles like 2nd Heligoland Bight are going to be a shitshow

[thorn trail]

yeah but this theoretical only assumes the timespan of Jutlan

didn't want to think of the strategic consequences for the entire war in this theoretical

[grave ravine]

Ah, then yeah Beatty is getting chewed up and spat out, but if a main fleet clash does occur, it probably still favors the british

weight of firepower and all that

[thorn trail]

Ok another stupid idea

What if the Hipper had the Alaska's

lol

and not just the 2 Alaska's built

assuming all the Alaska's ordered somehow joined the HSF 30 years ago

[grave ravine]

Again, bad news for Beatty, but probably doesn't swing the battle, the Alaska's wouldn't fare any better than the rest of the HSF when they run into Jellicoe

[thorn trail]

So unless we throw any of the bigger BBs to the HSF, nothing is changing the numerical superiority of the British

[grave ravine]

yeah probably, though if the HSF got something like the 2 yamatos, that probably gives them the edge

[thorn trail]

1 Yamato is probably enough tbf

If the Yamato's were designed against 2-3 Standards, then the Grand Fleet would be in serious trouble even with just one Yammy

[grave ravine]

yeah

Yamato would absolutely tear through the British battleship line

[thorn trail]

How about the Iowas?

How many Iowa's would be enough to tip the balance into the HSF's favour

[grave ravine]

probably also 1 or 2

While they aren't quite as well armored or armed, radar directed gunfire is OP

[thorn trail]

Honestly if 1 or 2 Iowa's would tip the balance into the HSF, then I am confident that the 2 Bisko's would tip the favor into the HSF's side

they did still have radar

and they did have 8 15in guns

[grave ravine]

I mean with the Biskos you are looking at a significantly worse protected ship, with significantly less ability to do very long range shooting

bisko is optimized for close in fighting, which gives the QEs a real shot to gang up on her

[thorn trail]

Then again, they're only fight would be the pre-refit QEs

which means they would still have the range against the QEs even if they had the same amount of 15in guns

[grave ravine]

Iowa and Yamato can just sit at range and be basically immune to anything coming at them

[grave ravine]

British estimates for the IZ of their WW1 ships against WW2 guns, they are probably not entirely right (they especially seem to underestimate the performance of the rebored Italian guns), but they are decent enough estimates

[thorn trail]

ngl I still don't know how to read these type of tables

Someone already taught me how

But my brain still can't process

[grave ravine]

The upshot is that the QE's and R class's armor probably wouldn't fare too well even against Bisko's guns, and Iowa and Yamato would probably punch through at any range.

http://www.sfu.ca/~dmunro/images/KGV_Tirpitz_IZ.pdf

[grave ravine]

Later pair of graphs estimating immunity zones, may be a bit easier to read

[thorn trail]

Ah ok

makes sense now

[grave ravine]

Its worth noting that these are the QEs with improved deck armor, they got an extra inch of deck armor after Jutland

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/EVostox/status/1660314733642391552

Elizabeth Vstx (@EVostox)

UPDATE:-
On 21 May 2023. Royal Malaysian Police raided the scrapyard site where the remains of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse were illegally salvaged at Kota Tinggi, Johor (See Video). Parts of ship anchor, cannon barrel (113mm Mk. 1 AA Gun) and UXO were found at the site.

Twitter · May 21, 2023, 4:00 PM

[shrewd pecan]

damn

[golden gull]

Slay

[wintry moat]

Damn

Maybe the old girls can rest easy now

[chilly osprey]

Oh, yeah, these are kind of a meme. They just sort of assumed the same performance from the Italian 320/44 as from the British WWI-era 12" guns.

With, you know, the 850 lbs APC that was far lighter than the APC used by the 305/46 used by the Italian dreadnoughts pre-reconstruction.

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1660376572258394125

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

After depth charges exploded near USS Sturgeon (SS-187), the sub's cook broke the silence to complain to the skipper that something had to be done about the attacking enemy destroyer. "That SOB is making my bread dough fall," claimed the cook.
#SubSunday

Likes

391

Twitter · May 21, 2023, 8:06 PM

[remote monolith]

@maiden citrus PREHISTORIC PLANET IS OUT, I REPEAT PREHISTORIC PLANET IS OUT

[undone siren]

did you know david McCampbell the highest scoring us navy ace flew from the uss essex

he flew 4 f6f hellcats the last one being named "minsi iii" where he reached 34 victories

[eternal veldt]

This is painful to see.

[maiden citrus]

watching it right now yeh friend

[spring briar]

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, why did they reject the polymer case 6.5?

[desert agate]

sorry for the delay, I've had shit on here's a few documents
I can't access the JAG report on Evans, unsure if its because it's region locked to the US or because it's been removed but I'd recommend digging into it

First document is the Royal Commissioners report into the loss of HMAS Voyager
Second document is a paper written by the Sea Power Centre which has some Voyager related info
Third document is Melbournes log for 1964, fourth document is her log for 1969, in the time periods of the losses of Voyager and Frank E Evans respectively, haven't read them but they should have useful info
The final document is the last recovered ships log for HMAS Voyager, it doesn't cover the collision itself (the collision was in Feb, this log ends in Jan) however should have some useful info as well

There's other stuff around, AWM is a good port of call I'd suggest contacting their archives for anything specific, Navy also has some in depth documentation on their website

The Royal Commission should be the definitive source you need though, since it basically had precedence over any Navy investigation

Anything that the Royal Commissioner didn't know and Navy does, is either not important or Navy isn't willing to provide to civilians

[grave ravine]

Yeah I saw your comments on the Twitter thread I found the chart on, how good is the second paper that the later graphs I posted are from?

[junior trench]

if you want added headaches when dealing with the RN's claimed IZ's, I can relay something from Okun via Jaba

Such a face-hardened plate is within, though near the edge of, the typical plate-to-plate quality variations of most such armors at that time. Indeed, British acceptance tests had TWO minimum striking velocity values where no through crack must be made in the plate: The regular one for the desirable standard plates (the one I use in FACEHARD) and a lower one where the plate would still be accepted, but at a lower cost to the Admiralty (the US Navy had no such double standard). This does make it more difficult to analyze British warship protection, since there is no way to tell what quality plate is mounted on any given part of any given ship. If the plate is one of the low-cost plates that they had at the proving ground and decided to use up in these tests, which is reasonable, as this is not a test of the latest 7" CA armor, then it can very easily be at 0.88 quality without any need to fall back on older, inferior armor types. Note also that the quality of the HT plates can vary somewhat and thus this can soak up some of the needed variation otherwise being applied to the 7" CA plate.

"roll for sub-standard but still accepted plates"

[chilly osprey]

Much as what I said in the post I linked on twitter, these kinds of calculations are best used to illustrate what each nation thought about their IZ's versus other navies and vice versa. They show us how they might have been thinking about how best to deal with an opponent - but unless we know their methodology for sure it's not advisable to take them as gospel, because they may or may not be a lot wrong with their assumptions.

[grave ravine]

http://www.sfu.ca/~dmunro/images/KGV_Tirpitz_IZ.pdf This is the paper I got it from

It talks a bit about the assumptions they made