history

[spring briar]

I think

[frigid karma]

TIL, inuit peoples carved slits into antlers as a primtive form of snow glasses

ik they're not going to but if Alaska was an inuit there'd be so many fucking options for her design

[spiral cedar]

That would be cool

inb4 she just looks like Sarah Palin

[shut wren]

Looks like the ice guy from the incredibles

[frigid karma]

straight out of the 80s (BCE)

[frigid karma]

If they'll bastardize her rigging enough, maybe Silver will like it because double negative = positive

[spring briar]

Here you go

Surprisingly hard to find

[shut wren]

[spring briar]

So yeah they’d put the claw into those holes and transport it like that

[frigid karma]

i feel like putting it on a platform and using the hook to raise said platform would be better

seeing as there aren't holes

in the fucking shell

[spiral cedar]

Ordnance safety in those days sure was something else

[spring briar]

Hence why I like the ammo cart

[frigid karma]

why is there a lack of rails being used for ammo transport on old ships?

wouldn't that be a much more consistent way of transporting ammo

[spring briar]

On ships it was fine

This is in a coastal fort

Some forts like this one was just more basic

Fort Rinella on Malta has rails and automatic elevators

[spring briar]

Yes, but a lot of those shells are either solid shot or have stable black powder bursters

[spiral cedar]

Yeah but like, if it drops on you

[shut wren]

[silver crest]

TIL that henry 8's older brother is named arthur

which means that if he didn't die early, we might have had an actual king arthur

[quick shard]

feels like that coastal gun who shot blücher

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1645232171605544961

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1941, USS North Carolina (BB-55) became the first new American battleship to be commissioned in 18 years. The North Carolina went on to take part in several battles including Philippine Sea, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa. "Showboat" is now a museum in Wilmington, NC.

Twitter · Apr 10, 2023, 1:08 AM

[shut wren]

[frigid karma]

https://twitter.com/DrydockDreams/status/1642963110280437767

Drydock Dreams Games (@DrydockDreams)

A kind reminder of what "deck-edge elevator" meant for USS Wasp (CV-7). Emphasis on the "edge" part, obviously 😅
I do wonder if some pilots did take the bait & rode along on that glorified outrigger...🥲
Pre-integration art by Rizki our 3D wizard!
#gamedev #3Danimation #indiedev

Likes

228

▶ Play video

Twitter · Apr 3, 2023, 6:51 PM

[shrewd pecan]

https://twitter.com/kadonkey/status/1644753791260975119

J.J. (@kadonkey)

Eagle rollout 50+ years ago. june 1972 mcd doug / boeing

Likes

1145

Retweets

153

Twitter · Apr 8, 2023, 5:27 PM

[eternal veldt]

Freshly brewed dementia, anyone?

[cerulean ice]

than any nation*

[eternal veldt]

That's my job.

[cerulean ice]

true

but also my hobby

[shut wren]

Professional Japanese copium

[cerulean ice]

that is why they have... a persona with a chinese name?

weird stuff

[shut wren]

Uhh

No comment

I dunno maybe they simp for Japan

[strong plank]

Masochism?

[shut wren]

Ig

[cerulean ice]

one of their names seems to be fake, likely this one, so perhaps they just have that little knowledge of the language, or a different reason to use it than just the above context

[shut wren]

[eternal veldt]

Could be worse

Seen someone with a weeb name, and a rising sun pfp

[shut wren]

I see

[maiden citrus]

if this man learns of montana he will die

[frigid karma]

if we define battleship by how the average modern news site definse battleship, i highly doubt yamato is beating a missile destroyer

[eternal veldt]

help

[shut wren]

get your lifeboats

[shut wren]

tf does that even mean

[cerulean ice]

%100

[quick shard]

The bloody hell does tha mean

[quick shard]

unless

[frigid karma]

just stumbled upon Falcon's Fighting Tales and even tho he only has 11k subscribers, his videos are fantastic, highly recommend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGBxq1PCilk&ab_channel=Falcon'sFighterTales

[zealous vine]

How were WW2 torps controlled from and aimed?

[silent oxide]

they were aimed at where you thought the target would be and hope they hit

[deep apex]

If you're in a sub, lots of trigonometry

If you're in an aircraft, yank and pray

[eternal veldt]

Torpedoes also had gyroscopes that guided the torpedo on their run after being fired.

Just pray that the gyroscope works, otherwise it'll run in a full circle and kill you.

[manic latch]

US had a special Type B-2 Torpedo Director Sight for A-20s

[zealous vine]

Woah

Where was the "trigger" for torps on ships?

[manic latch]

torpedo is fired by percussion by pulling the handle on the hydraulic transmitter or the manual firing cable handle which trips the sear, allowing the firing hammer to strike the firing pin. Torpedoes are fired simultaneously electrically by closing the firing key at the director.

[eternal veldt]

I dont remember if it was Heerman or Hoel that had their torpedo hammers busted

So the torpedoman had to literally use a hammer to hit each one to get them off the tube

[frigid karma]

underbarrel torp

don't ask NJ what she was doing in 1901

@humble mulch

As part of their effort to support such organizations, the Black Dragon Society sent an agent, Satokata Takahashi, to promote pan-Asianism and claim that Japan would treat them as racial equals. He would become a patron of Noble Drew Ali and the Moorish Science Temple of America, Elijah Muhammed and the Nation of Islam, as well as the Pacific Movement of the Eastern World.

Inshallah

NJ is a member of the nation of islam

[silent oxide]

NJ was non-existent back then so she'd look at you as if you were crazy

[frigid karma]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-missed-over-your-head-gif-8604199

[frigid karma]

@tough quail much honurable

[quick shard]

cliffs of gallipoli

the valley of death

the somme

DeVille's wood

[manic latch]

Ok

[autumn sorrel]

What is Western assessment Chinese Junk rigging and sea-worthiness?

[manic latch]

https://gagadget.com/en/233664-philippines-wants-more-turkish-atak-attack-helicopters-that-can-carry-agm-114-hellfire-and-aim-9-sidewinder-missiles-amp/

[thorn trail]

oh right we probably would need more after afaik cancelled the Russian Helicopter deal

[autumn sorrel]

I do wonder whether Vietnam will modern its attack heli squadron, Mi-8 is a poor substitute and buying Hind from Russia is now out of question

The same old problem apparently, no fund for further weapons purchase.

[shut wren]

Open more apple factories

make more money

[autumn sorrel]

We would, right after the political infighting stop

[shut wren]

whats happening over there?

[autumn sorrel]

Vietnam just replace the President and replace him with the head of the Police/security ministry

The factions in the party are starting to infighting again

The Army kinda stop all the big arms deal for now, they are busy with the “reorganization” program. New weapon, new tech, new tactic and new command.

[shut wren]

Good luck ig

[autumn sorrel]

Infantry weapon is slowly improving, new rifle to replace old AK, Arty brigade start to try out drone observation, some units even got issue with body armor for testing.

Problem is still the funding, Navy and Air Force get the priority, Army can only make do with the fund by prioritize some units

[shut wren]

Modernizeation takes a shit ton of money

understandable

[autumn sorrel]

Well, good thing is that before the reform program, funding was for arm factories so most weapon for the modernization program is all “Made in Vietnam”. It cut down the cost and ensure that we don’t rely on outside suppliers.

[shut wren]

Niceee

[autumn sorrel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCM-01

Copy of Kh-35 but use Korean engine, its good to be neutral sometimes

You can buy shit from everyone

[shut wren]

but then they pressure you to join a side

[autumn sorrel]

That’s why we adopt “3 No” Policy

Neutral but not quite Swiss neutral

[shut wren]

I see

does Viettel make everything or like...

[autumn sorrel]

It is an military corporation, on the outside it market as a telecom company but they are the main supplier of comm devices, tech and drones for the PAVN.

[shut wren]

yall doing anything new with yall navy

[autumn sorrel]

The company is technically civilian in charge but outside of civilian comm and international service, rest serve the military

[autumn sorrel]

About to build new frigate but Russian blown off the Ukrainian factory that make the engine, new suppliers aren’t found yet.

[shut wren]

bruhhhh

[autumn sorrel]

Good thing the Kilo got delivered before all shit gone to hell

[shut wren]

so like yall got the big thingy before it all went to shit

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, the whole war thingy also spook alot of higher up, they got shook out of the old mentality of old style guerrilla warfare and was drag kicking and screaming into the modern warfare.

That’s why modernization was push this early, they need to test thing out right now, can’t dragging it any longer

[shut wren]

like a wake up call

[autumn sorrel]

PAVN can throw men into any problem, gray areas that many Vietnam tech company operate it mean that tech is also present, it just that even with the current push for modernization, it will take years to revamp the entire Army.

[shut wren]

Modernaztion takes time for any army

[autumn sorrel]

It does

So we just try to get more money in the mean time

We go as far as ignore the pollution that Samsung factory dump out just to make sure they keep the factory here.

[shut wren]

steal it

[autumn sorrel]

Bad for business and FPT chip making venture kinda failed so better buy real stuff when you still in good term with the makers

[shut wren]

[autumn sorrel]

Funny thing about multiple faction in the communist party but it make them hard to pass really oppressive law so Vietnam is quite liberal, sound really anachronistic but unless you really go hardcore anti-commie, you can criticize the Party all you want.

[shut wren]

Lucky

[quick shard]

wats the topic?

[shut wren]

vietnam's military modernization

[ivory ridge]

@spring briar

[spring briar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/372267338663198720/1091061460643364986/1034723981825159228-1.gif

Thank you undy

[ivory ridge]

305mm casing

[eternal veldt]

"We need more sail"

[shut wren]

One match and say bye bye to life

[ivory ridge]

Boat

[autumn sorrel]

Is that a Italian war museum?

[subtle prawn]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/04/hhi-launches-first-chungnam-class-ffx-batch-iii-frigate-for-rok-navy/

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1645421758151794689

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1963, 129 men were lost when the USS Thresher (SSN-593) sank during deep dive tests in the Atlantic Ocean. After being told about the disaster, the young son of skipper CDR John Harvey made this crayon drawing of the sub lying on the ocean floor.

Likes

121

Twitter · Apr 10, 2023, 1:41 PM

[autumn sorrel]

Well, that’s was sad

[ivory ridge]

yes

the history of the City of Trieste from before ww1 to after ww2

[spring briar]

350

Lmao Ersatz monarch moment

[autumn sorrel]

Pretty violent I might say then

[autumn sorrel]

Need pic of a 1st rate flexing all her sail

[ivory ridge]

A city that was in the middle of 2 world wars and exchanged hands like 10 times in 40 years if you include temporary governments

Like

Yeah of course it was violent

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQB4TmtweKQ

[spring briar]

Onyo

[spiral cedar]

3 more hours until premiere

[shut wren]

Of what???

[spring briar]

Of the video

[shut wren]

Oh…

[frigid karma]

Jaba, how much money would you want/pay to show up on bnj

[spiral cedar]

Show up in what way

[frigid karma]

Just a short lecture on her shells or guns, probably

[spiral cedar]

Ah. Well I’d need to prepare notes and such, plus travel expenses

[frigid karma]

No I meant on the yt channel

[spiral cedar]

Oh

Well I’d still need to prepare notes

But the money is less of an issue for me than asking why they wouldn’t just ask someone like Okun directly

Aside from him being in his 80s now

[frigid karma]

That was the main reason why not okun, yea

[spring briar]

Okun should publish all his research

[spiral cedar]

Yes

[spring briar]

Lest it be lost to time

[frigid karma]

be historian in 2100
mfw all that’s left of okun’s work is in this channel
mfw I have to browse it

[maiden citrus]

Nj vs Bismarck guns huh, well, more, bigger, better

[frigid karma]

Harder, better, faster, stronger

[spring briar]

Biggest sin of her shells is the base plug and the fuzes

[eternal veldt]

I don't think Victory would have looked as scary/dangerous as Europa here - high tumblehome helps a wee bit.

[shut wren]

Guys hear me out

what if

we put ERA on ERA boxes to protect the ERA

or

ERA on explodsives and ammo to protect it

[frigid karma]

What if you're funny

[ivory ridge]

this was a psyop but still

[shut wren]

I wish i was

[shut wren]

mfs used gluesticks to slap ERA on shit

reminds me of this

[frigid karma]

@spiral cedar

it begins

"muh secondaries" in BB duel

[spiral cedar]

Also if you want to talk about radar directed secondaries

[frigid karma]

The german ship had the most advanced fire control (on its secondaries) i wouldn't like to call the comparison when we do not have their development plans, especially considering their massive advancements in radar guided anti air artillery. There are also ways to mitigate that.

MASSIVE ADVANCEMENTS IN RADAR GUIDED ANTI AIR ARTILLERY

[spiral cedar]

Mark 37 director with Mark 4 FD radar is pretty much your top pick for WWII anyway

[frigid karma]

((150mm shell flies right through swordfish fabric))

and besides, why the fuck is aa part of a nj v bismarck discussion

is NJ's seaplane gonna kamikaze bismarck?

[spiral cedar]

Naw, they’ll shoot down incoming shells

15cm CIWS

[frigid karma]

I need not ping horse

he is already rapidly approaching OP's house anyways

along with maka

[spiral cedar]

More people who have no idea how dispersion is measured

[maiden citrus]

[strong plank]

wait wait wait

but since the periods of the two classes did not exactly overlap

[frigid karma]

what's wrong? tirpitz was sank alongside bismarck in 1940

the one in norway was merely an inflatable

[strong plank]

wasn't Iowa almost sent to engage tirpitz or am I confusing it with a norcal

[frigid karma]

alabama

[cinder escarp]

I mean bisko is just warmed over bayern 💨

[strong plank]

ah yeah

I thought it was one of the iowas that just barely missed the chance to sink her

[frigid karma]

i mean you could make an argument that bismarck is an interwar BB while iowa is very much a midwar one

[spiral cedar]

For battery-at-sea firing, the appropriate conversions put the German 38cm at a true mean dispersion of about 0.47% of range at 20km (22k yards). The US 16” guns in battery-at-sea firing had a true mean dispersion of 0.40% of range. Both are fairly accurate guns, but the actual data contradicts the claim that the Bismarck class had superior dispersion characteristics for the main battery to the Iowa class. It’s yet another example of how most people don’t know how dispersion is measured and calculated

[frigid karma]

but is this with deadeye or without?

[spiral cedar]

[maiden citrus]

we accidentally the vt shells

[eternal veldt]

Mark 3 or Mark 4? NC's 1941 radar fit kinda impeded my ability to distinct between the two

[runic prairie]

A modern fast battleship versus what is, in effect, a somewhat redesigned and updated WWI Battleship.

Wow I wonder which one could possibly win.

[eternal veldt]

I don't quite understand the redesigned WW1 BB argument. Other than having a turtleback armour scheme and the same caliber guns (Which were of an entirely new design), Bismarck doesn't really share much with Bayern.

You might as well say Montana is a souped up New Mexico if that is the case, which I am sure Maka enjoys.

[dusty kraken]

New Mexico but long

[runic prairie]

Huh I guess you’re right.

Still, they’re anemically underarmed for their weight, having the same problem as the Admiral Hipper Class just on a larger scale.

[eternal veldt]

Slightly faster.

[spiral cedar]

4

[eternal veldt]

I think the main reason for Hipper's massive weight was due to the amount of redundancy and workshops aboard. Whether you think that is great or dogshit, that is up to you.

[runic prairie]

Ask Blücher

[eternal veldt]

Blücher had the unfortunate issue of sailing close and getting everything torched by shell guns, and her gun director knocked out.

Then the auxiliary magazines exploded.

[frigid karma]

*fortunate

plenty of SS drowned that night

[eternal veldt]

Fair enough. I think its more a tactical blunder and complacency more than technical issue.

[runic prairie]

The Kriegsmarine’s greatest service to humanity.

Creating a coffin for Nazis to drown in.

[eternal veldt]

Lützow veered away and was fine...until she gets fucked by a massive bomb.

[frigid karma]

tfw 75% death rate in submarinse

[runic prairie]

Allied ASW something else

[eternal veldt]

Something something death traps

[frigid karma]

surprising there weren't that many mutinies

[runic prairie]

U-Boat or Eastern front. Choose wisely.

[frigid karma]

if i had a loyal crew, probably the uboat ngl

surface waving a white flag and a map of uboat positions in the atlantic

[runic prairie]

Pull a Captain Ramius

[frigid karma]

"one ping only"

[runic prairie]

“I think I heard singing.”

[frigid karma]

"a quarter and two dimes"

[quick shard]

probably because of the hanger

[alpine onyx]

Also the Hippers had essentially the same fire control as the battleships, in particular in quantity of equipment. That stuff balloons weight

[eternal veldt]

No, hangar isnt a problem, I believe. Most other nations had it just fine.

[alpine onyx]

And balloons power requirements, which in turn balloons the amount of redundant power on top

[quick shard]

on the middle💀

[eternal veldt]

The British had them on the catapult amidship as well. A wee bit of mild steel covering isn't going to make the ship balloon in size.

[alpine onyx]

Also Blücher was loaded to the brim with ammunition and landing equipment, which as the fire broke out started going off and made firefighting inside near impossible

[eternal veldt]

See also the La Galissonieres. Very decent light cruisers for their size.

[quick shard]

TÅRNE 1 BRANN

[eternal veldt]

The US had their hangar either built in amidships ala the Northamptons - New Orleans, or carve a hole in the rear part of the hull to fit it in for the light cruisers.

The latter was not liked by the British for "reducing hull integrity" and "more prone to flooding", at least in the process of designing new BBs.

[quick shard]

Guess those were the moments before nazi occupation

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1645445754268385282

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Happy National Siblings Day! This 1954 family portrait is from a rare occasion when all four sister Iowa-class battleships were together. From front to back is USS Iowa, USS Wisconsin, USS Missouri and USS New Jersey. All the ships are now museums. #NationalSiblingsDay

Likes

431

Retweets

121

Twitter · Apr 10, 2023, 3:16 PM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1645485796177203201

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1918, Germany sank the entire Liberian navy with a single shot. After Liberia entered WWI on the Allied side, Germany sent a U-boat to Monrovia that used its deck gun to score one hit on the R.L.S President Daniel E. Howard, sinking Liberia's only gunboat.

Likes

125

Twitter · Apr 10, 2023, 5:56 PM

[runic prairie]

Here’s an A-5 Vigilante with conventional bombs.

[quick shard]

one happy family

[manic latch]

[thorn trail]

how do you read this graph

like what does the legends on the top mean

[eternal veldt]

@maiden citrus

[maiden citrus]

aw yis, love this pic

[alpine onyx]

355mm triple

[eternal veldt]

Oh, while you're here. Quick question - When did Oigen get the Wackeltöpfe for her forward directors? During her stay at Brest?

[digital mantle]

What is IJN Aircraft Carrier that was paired up to sail with battleship Ise and Hyuuga? I like to try to organize my Sakura fleets a certain way…

[eternal veldt]

Historically? Zuikaku.

In the IJN's brains, very stage stage? Shinano.

[digital mantle]

What about light aircraft carriers?

[eternal veldt]

Zuiho isnt in game yet. Pick Chitose or Chiyoda for an Engano lineup.

[digital mantle]

Gotcha!

[thorn trail]

wait did all of the Kido Butai carriers present in Midway have that weird island arrangement of the side by side thing where the other ship's island is mirrored?

[autumn sorrel]

The pair thingy? Yeah, Akaga and both the bunny

[eternal veldt]

Only Hiryu and Akagi had port side islands.

Shokaku originally would be port sided, but seeing how crappy port side islands are, it was changed mid-construction.

[quick shard]

Never ask Thomas the tank engine on wat he did in 1933-1945

[eternal veldt]

And I need some confirmation on this one, but there is a "Super Shokaku" for the Circle 3 Plan - upping the machinery up to 182k sHP, but I have no solid ground yet, so take it as bullshit until otherwise.

[eternal veldt]

"My source is that I made it the fuck up" until proven otherwise.

and whatever this shit is. Maybe Shikikaze will know.

[shut wren]

mfs gonna carry 7 planes

[manic latch]

A picture of shells used in the Battle of the Somme. In the week leading up to the battle, over 1.5 million shells were fired

[autumn sorrel]

How many barrel was changed though?

[shut wren]

so like

they just melt em down and reshape em or

just refill on spot

[autumn sorrel]

Maybe rebore them

[manic latch]

If source is true these are what British had

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, if IJN decide to make CVL like Independence, which ship hull will they choose?

[eternal veldt]

Ibuki is a thing

Technically CA, but Ibukis are modified Suzuyas, who are in turn, modified Mogamis, which when complete, are...light cruisers

But really, they already converted their subtenders into CVLs, as with the Zuihou class

[manic latch]

BB-63 USS Missouri firing her guns near max elevation during Desert Storm in 1991

[maiden citrus]

[solid mango]

[shut wren]

Thoughts on the NGAD from what we know at the moment?

[manic latch]

Moment it's revealed, It will be worshipped and will have shitton of videos of how amazing it is and such

It's your typical new gen aircraft reveal

[shut wren]

so

basically covered in funny reflective fabric

[manic latch]

Can pull a B-21 yes

[shut wren]

NNGAD when

[manic latch]

7th gen

[shut wren]

da

when

[vapid river]

Damn i almost forgot the appearance of ship carrying planes

[manic latch]

Ship carrying planes..

You forgot carriers?

[vapid river]

Not the big ones

[shut wren]

I mean

you could fold em up

and put em in cargo ships

[vapid river]

Do planes nowadays still propeller planes like ospreys?

[shut wren]

uhh

[manic latch]

You mean tiltrotors

[shut wren]

no?

I mean fixed wings dont

but some do

[manic latch]

Only Osprey and V-280 have that feature right now

Miley you aren't from Mars right

[vapid river]

Nah

[shrewd pecan]

There’s a few turboprops out and about

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano

[vapid river]

Its just history that ive leanrt so far only consist baseless politics

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_KT-1_Woongbi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-6_Texan_II

[vapid river]

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_Hürkuş

Damn embed died

She does look alot like T-6

[shrewd pecan]

The crop duster https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor-L3Harris_AT-802U_Sky_Warden

god air tractor and L3Harris is such a weird match up

[shut wren]

is it possible to have a Turboprop and jet plane in one?

[manic latch]

There is such plane

America build once

Trying to remember

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_XF-84H_Thunderscreech

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Vultee_XP-81

The US made quite a few of these

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_XF2R_Dark_Shark

[shut wren]

USA moment

[silver crest]

so they just stuck a jet engine on a plane and watch what happens?

[naive timber]

Basically

[manic latch]

If you ignore shitton work of engineers calculating and designing the hull while doing wind tunnel tests with a model

Yes

[silver crest]

[manic latch]

First flight is always unpredictable

[shut wren]

who cares about the mfs in the back

[manic latch]

Everyone knows Iowa class but few knows its chief engineer ye

[rough pond]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Slaves_(film)
Huh, so Sevastopol was kind of a movie star in Germany? Interesting.

Too bad it's a nazi movie

[manic latch]

Yeah it was a counter for Potemkin movie of Soviets

[shut wren]

[spiral cedar]

The top graph is just error checking

The bottom graph is the width of the zone in which 50% of the shells can be expected to land

As a function of range

[desert agate]

what

[desert agate]

pc-21 my beloved

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-152

Yak-130 is better of course. But 152 cute

[vapid river]

What?

Pog

[desert agate]

just a very odd thing to say thats all

[vapid river]

True tho

Expect nothing from textbooks

[desert agate]

history is more than tanks and planes

[shut wren]

Culture and arts n shit

[desert agate]

history is inherently a study of humans and their attitudes and how they evolved and shape our world today

[shut wren]

[desert agate]

the fact that politics is inherently entwined with that study is not only unsurprising but also inevitable

[shut wren]

[desert agate]

even those who concern themselves solely with military hardware will find a difficult time explaining the design philosophies behind those vehicles without delving into the reasons behind those design choices and by extension the political environments those choices existed in

[vapid river]

Hmm
Similar to people who aptly do something but can't explain outwardly

[manic latch]

Yeah like look at me

People call me unstable

But you don't know the reason yet

[vapid river]

Reason?

[manic latch]

Indeed

[shut wren]

[shut wren]

What?

[eternal veldt]

A piece of military hardware is even tied into politics.

Case in point: Mutsu.

The whole many clauses of the Washington Naval Treaty and debate surrounding her.

And subsequent Japanese dissatisfaction towards the allocated tonnage.

[runic prairie]

Another example is the various light attack aircraft of the Vietnam War.

Treaties meant that the U.S. couldn’t supply South Vietnam with jet aircraft so they focused on various prop planes.

[shrewd pecan]

the US supplied South Vietnam with numerous jet aircraft

one of the main aircraft of the South Vietnamese airforce literally was the F-5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_A-37_Dragonfly

[desert agate]

I've had the pleasure of seeing an A-37 in flight

There's one privately owned in New Zealand and it shows up at airshows all over Oceania

[shut wren]

Bruh though I saw PLAAF on the Vietnamese symbol

[runic prairie]

It was in accordance to the 1954 Geneva Accords

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/KH-LA-VN_540720_GenevaAgreements.pdf

[delicate beacon]

Van Galen destroyed two German aircraft with her 12cm battery

[shut wren]

[shrewd pecan]

their roundels are very similar

[shut wren]

Ye i kniw

[runic prairie]

The importation of Jets was highly restricted but prop aircraft were free game.

[delicate beacon]

China copies everything

[shrewd pecan]

South Vietnam got its first F-5s in 1967

same with its A-37s

[runic prairie]

Yeah, I’m talking late 50s, early 60s

Before most U.S. involvement

[shrewd pecan]

their first 2 jet combat aircraft entered service two years after the US formally intervened

[shut wren]

[delicate beacon]

Of course the 4cms on Van Galen jammed

It was even expected at high elevation

Who thought the Pompom was a good AA weapon

[shrewd pecan]

before full on US involvement their aircraft pretty much just consist of F-8Fs and C-47s, alongside Skyraiders and a few other types

[shut wren]

Aren’t C-47s known for their Normandy invlovdnrbtt

[runic prairie]

And even covert U.S. involvement was using prop aircraft.

Jets were restricted as an item of military equipment under the 1954 Geneva Accords, which prohibited importation of them.

[shrewd pecan]

eh

in 63 they were using B-57s and other jet aircraft during the covert phase

[shut wren]

[runic prairie]

That doesn’t change the initial pressure for prop aircraft including stuff like the B-26K.

[shrewd pecan]

yeah but the US was still making use of jet aircraft during the covert phase with the Southern Vietnamese themselves starting to operate various types by 65 and beyond

[frigid karma]

voodoo

mini lancer

[shrewd pecan]

baby lancer

[runic prairie]

Cute little guy

[shut wren]

Who’s milkers it doing

[young lantern]

Wasn’t the PLA Air Force founded first before Vietnam? Like in 1949

[delicate beacon]

I honestly dont know

[young lantern]

I checked it said Vietnamese Air Force was founded around 1955 for North Vietnam

[frigid karma]

yep

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAuLt6MpijA

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/romania-unveils-plan-to-buy-f-35s

[frigid karma]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[manic latch]

Yeah SR-72 is also delayed i think

[shut wren]

PLAAF was 1949

[tough quail]

oh did they give more info on the funny neo-foxhound

[manic latch]

Luv me Fox

[tough quail]

friend

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1645826075618942976

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1945, a kamikaze struck USS Missouri (BB-63) during the Battle of Okinawa, leaving his plane's machine gun impaled in the flash suppressor of a Bofors 40mm. The attack caused minor damage but the Missouri shrugged it off and did not even alter her course.

Likes

131

Twitter · Apr 11, 2023, 4:28 PM

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1645873514115739650

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

Today is National Submarine Day. During WWII, 263 U.S. Navy submarines deployed on war patrols. This image of 52 submarines in the Pacific Reserve Fleet at Mare Island in 1946 represents the same number of subs that went on eternal patrol after being lost in the war.

Twitter · Apr 11, 2023, 7:36 PM

[night heart]

hey !!

[manic latch]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-massive-fleet-of-radar-planes-and-the-strategy-behind-it

[shut wren]

They have the cool thingy on top

[subtle prawn]

https://news.usni.org/2023/04/11/no-timeline-yet-to-add-tomahawk-sm-6-to-constellation-frigates-says-program-manager

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AlexLuck9/status/1645975133323165696?t=ux4Ogti6Nw8krsj5-Lq82Q&s=19

Alex Luck (@AlexLuck9)

This kind of nonsense is a great example how every effort to speedily procure systems in quantity is getting kneecapped by ridiculous demands.

https://t.co/Nr0oseMQcT

Twitter · Apr 12, 2023, 2:20 AM

[frigid karma]

The committee believes the FFG-62 class should include optimized Tomahawk Weapons System hardware and software, which would both provide a necessary lethality increase for the FFG-62 class and serve as a key technical risk reduction advance in realizing Tomahawk-capable USVs,” reads the statement.

Whatever happened to all other ships in a CSG serving as protection for the carrier while the planes do the actual offense?

is this just congress trying to stroke itself

[desert agate]

Giving the Constellations full strike length VLS is just ridiculous

A frigate is not just a mini destroyer

Giving it strike length VLS, at that point you need better radar and a combat management system and at that point you might as well just buy more Burkes

[frigid karma]

Congress said it wants the integration of the Tomahawk to serve as a test bed for a virtualized system to control the Tomahawk and to experiment with the missile options for future unmanned surface vehicles.

Then why the fuck are you throwing tomahawks onto every fucking constellation

Why even the constellations, actually? Do these budget asw platforms have special 'virtualized systems' or "unmanned capabilities'?

JFC

[frigid karma]

speaking of ridiculous

the comments

[desert agate]

gunfire support
Looks like we're back in Nam

[frigid karma]

tfw tomahawks also take up asroc slots

👏

this isn't 1991 you fucking troglodytes

you'll be fighting a navy which presumably doesn't disappear in the first 30 seconds

[junior trench]

They already have strike length

Strike length is literally the only length the USN uses, but that doesn't mean Tomahawks and SM-6 are actually integrated for the ship's systems

[shrewd pecan]

she has the same radar set as flight III Burke

[frigid karma]

Congress: "we need to cut costs"
Also congress:

[tough quail]

we're going to take shoes away from the infantry to save costs

also every rifleman gets a towed M2 to increase lethality

[dusty kraken]

they better not make the infantry eat without tables

[eternal veldt]

It's called fireproofing, smh

[frigid karma]

so are you talking about

or this

[manic latch]

50 cal of course

Since you can tow maxim machine guns

[frigid karma]

or this

or this

[manic latch]

Such creative naming doctrine

[frigid karma]

or this

i'm just going to assume you mean this

[tough quail]

the last one is correct yes

[frigid karma]

BTW, on my last wikipedia trip

"General, we really need an m4 with 90mm guns"
"Fear not, the M4 tractor with 90mm ammo box"

[tough quail]

i want to say i hate US designations but i know i will wake up to a text wall from the usual suspects explaining why it's optimal and other countries suck at it anyway

[frigid karma]

eh, on the ships department we have it better than the british

"Yes all of our ships are named after random adjectives"

[tough quail]

oh yeah the navy/air force is fine

i just mean army shit

[frigid karma]

yea, that's not really excusable

[tough quail]

i like that china basically just has like, ww2 ijn/usn plane naming schemes

[frigid karma]

especially since in ww2 no one called it a garand, just an m1 rifle

so if your sergeant got shot dead halfway through his sentence, good luck ig

[tough quail]

[frigid karma]

drags a 120mm aa gun to the front
turns out he just needed a rifle

[manic latch]

Minefield yeah

[manic latch]

Fuck me
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_mine

[frigid karma]

til

enlisted's carcano somehow has an m1 ping

and ejects a full enbloc clip upon empty reload

Italy has invented ♾️ ammunition

[tough quail]

i love italian metal gear

[shrewd pecan]

ah

WW2 designations

they had the decency to smack a word alongside their twenty million different items with the same designation

tho personally I'd take everything having the same designation over the number soup you get with a lot of the current & post WW2 platforms

[frigid karma]

mmm

[manic latch]

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/04/11/new-electronic-warfare-upgrades-for-f-16-pass-emulator-testing/

[dusty kraken]

the sergeant on the battlefield calling for a M143292 gun carrier troop transport aerial reconnaissance mission command cargo transport general purpose vehicle

[runic prairie]

And the pennant number system is really goddamn stupid.

Even the Aussies got on-board with the Hull Classification System. There’s a reason why it’s used as NATO standard for warship classifications.

[desert agate]

i mean

of course we did

we love standardised bureaucracy

thats why we keep naming ships after rivers

3 river classes in 100 years

and the next class of FFG is the Hunter class

named for the Hunter river

[eternal veldt]

Tbh, I like the adjectives system. A great boon for my English lexicon.

The pennant system is a bit awkward, but even the Type 26s IIRC are approaching a standardized system of using city names.

The Type 31 and Dreadnoughts are in the weirder zone, but I guess it is understandable that these are names with long mileage in the navy.

[shut wren]

Could get more chunkier

[vocal crane]

AO all my homies how you doing how about some history!

[manic latch]

Hmmm

[autumn sorrel]

Are we doing Central Power Wednesday?

[tight notch]

[vocal crane]

Yeah sure why not I’m more of a America Monday but yeah

[autumn sorrel]

Fine, u get Hellriegel for Central Power Wednesday

[desert agate]

Oh hey its the lost a war club

[vocal crane]

Yeah, but the flags look cool, and It keeps socialists away

[manic latch]

Attracts national socialists

[desert agate]

Germans Turks and Hungarians all well known for winning fights with the Soviets

Bulgarians didn't go so well either

[manic latch]

Turkey freeze to death before reaching battlefield with Russia

[autumn sorrel]

When they have competent leader, but Soviet can thrown men at any problem

[desert agate]

[manic latch]

What

[desert agate]

Please do not Asiatic horde in the #history channel

[autumn sorrel]

tbf, both side died of cold weather

[vocal crane]

[autumn sorrel]

Turk just so happen forget all their winter clothes and food

[vocal crane]

[manic latch]

Chief

[vocal crane]

Tannenburg noises*

[desert agate]

Attaturk literally saved the entire Caucusus front

Then got sidelined because it made him too popular

[autumn sorrel]

I said both side died, I need to emphasize on how worse Turk fare than Rus

[manic latch]

I think Ottoman had only 2 victories in Ww1. One was Ataturk's front

[manic latch]

You went "throw man at problem"

[desert agate]

The only decisive Ottoman victory was Gallipoli which Attaturk was responsible for

[vocal crane]

Which was hard to do worse then the collapsing wasteland

[autumn sorrel]

My bad, should have clarify ww2 soviet

[desert agate]

Attaturk then saved the Caucusus front until he got sidelined

[manic latch]

Did you know Germans had more man during start of Stalingrad

[desert agate]

Please do not Asiatic horde in the chat

[autumn sorrel]

Is that a Taboo that I do not know?

[desert agate]

Well it's wrong

Objectively

[manic latch]

Enemy at the gates and its consequences

[autumn sorrel]

I hate that movie

[vocal crane]

Anyways the Bulgarians did good for how small they were

[desert agate]

The Soviets combined a highly potent combined arms force

[autumn sorrel]

I said "thrown men" in term of huge pool of manpower not throw horde of soldier at enemy

[vocal crane]

Taking out Romania and helping with Serbia

[autumn sorrel]

I am well aware of how Soviet army was organized during ww2, pretty good system I might say

[manic latch]

So does that also apply to America because of D-Day?

[autumn sorrel]

In many aspect, yes

Well, return to ww1 Rus

[desert agate]

Also manpower quite literally is an advantage on its own

But that doesn't take away from the effective tactics and strategy implemented by the Soviets

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusilov_offensive

[autumn sorrel]

IMO, Imperial Army at the beginning of the war was relatively well prepare to fight the war they think they would fight, good understanding and training on MG, emphasis on cav ,they are well suited for a mobile war in the east. Problem is the German

[autumn sorrel]

I am not dissing the Imperial Russian Army, especially during that time, they are still a competent fighting force

[desert agate]

Reminder that less than 20% of the Russian army in 1914 could read

[manic latch]

Yeah. Bursilov offensive forced Germany to halt its attack on Verdun and transfer considerable forces to the East. Afterward, the Austro-Hungarian army increasingly had to rely on the support of the German army for its military successes. On the other hand, the German army did not suffer much from the operation and retained most of its offensive power afterward

So helped France alot

[autumn sorrel]

True, Soviet get unfair rep as throwing squad of conscript but they have extensive training manual for infantry and they certainly have lot of experience and veteran to form a core and build the army around them.

[shut wren]

[manic latch]

Like French surrender memes. I think Soviet horde thingy appeared because of this single battle
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Rzhev

[shut wren]

How tf did they estimate 2.6 million dead

[manic latch]

Zhukov was shaken from this as he said
Today, after reflecting the events of 1942, I see that I had many shortcomings in evaluating the situation at Vyazma. We overestimated ourselves and underestimated the enemies. The "walnut" there was much stronger that what we predicted.

— G. K. Zhukov.

[shrewd pecan]

probably using Wehrmacht numbers since western statistics for deaths in the Soviet Union for Stalin era are all over the place up until public access was gained to the Soviet archives

[manic latch]

Yeah Historians had to use what German officers or generals had to say since Soviet archives are closed till 90s

[shut wren]

[autumn sorrel]

The losses aren't from throwing men at the German but more likely from badly coord between each Front led to un-coordinate attack, severe shortage of ammo and supply, deficiency in early war soviet tanks, many unit were trap in pocket when German counter attack

[shrewd pecan]

It’s how we keep ending with the genocide Olympics with people making stupid graphs like this with the highest possible estimates

[manic latch]

Wtf

[autumn sorrel]

Chinese one is kinda right tho

[tight notch]

Adolf Hitler

[shrewd pecan]

when you know Stalin would be fourth on this graph since he’s responsible for about 7.5-9 million deaths

The entire religion thing on that graph as well is just

Horribly inaccurate

[manic latch]

Tojo at 5 mil

Hmmm

[shrewd pecan]

In terms of Mao his estimates range from 40-80 million deaths

[autumn sorrel]

When you considering it, Pol pot have lower kill count but based on percentage of the population then he have the highest rate

[tight notch]

Some people say he is Pagan or Deist.

[desert agate]

They are wrong

Himmler was a pagan(ish)

[autumn sorrel]

They only count people killed when he was in charge

[shrewd pecan]

I don’t think it would be really accurate to describe him of any faith

[shut wren]

[tight notch]

I know. He is used Pagan symbols.

[shut wren]

Chinese state run media be like

[tight notch]

Agree.

[shut wren]

“Small mistake”

[unborn wyvern]

all this reminds me of that one really edgy tiberium dawn ad

[autumn sorrel]

"Small leap"

[shut wren]

“Everyone makes mistakes”

[unborn wyvern]

suboptimal grain production

this was a real ad they made btw

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah now I need to hear the tankie arguments about how the Chinese and Russians are incapable of industrialization and mass literacy without 40+ million people dying

The fuck is that ad

[autumn sorrel]

They can't top Genghis

[thorn trail]

what the heck CnC

[unborn wyvern]

I love how they threw in Jacques Chirac (Bottom row 2nd from right)

[shrewd pecan]

He did love shooting African presidents

[shut wren]

💀

[unborn wyvern]

it was probably because he resumed french nuclear testing (i think) a year before the game came out and it caused an outrage

[runic prairie]

It was a simple skill issue

[autumn sorrel]

You haven't heard the argument of how Pol pot will magically rebound Cambodia after he exterminate all who he think is un-needed

[runic prairie]

It’s pretty easy to improve if all you have to do is stop murdering your citizens.

[autumn sorrel]

Did you know that Pol pot actually try to institute a kill count on Vietnamese? He basically want to launch cross border raid everyday just to kill Vietnamese civilian and he even stated his quota on how many he want to kill everyday

[runic prairie]

That definitely sounds like something he’d do.

The Vietnamese didn’t take too kindly to that for some odd reason.

[shut wren]

[autumn sorrel]

We did respond, with reason at first and then we do a little sight seeing in 1978 when we launch a small scale invasion to show him how stupid it was and he should stop, he didn't.

[shut wren]

Shoulda went all in

[autumn sorrel]

We should have reach Nhompenh in 1978 and end it all then, it was stupid to wait till 1979

Even more stupid is when PAVN let him known that we can smash all of their defence so Pol pot ran like the dog he is in 1979 so we can't capture him

[shut wren]

I mean

Coulda killed him instead

[autumn sorrel]

Turn what supposed to a quick war into a fucking quagmire and Vietnam own version of "Vietnam"

[shut wren]

Vietnam got Vietnamed

[autumn sorrel]

The Politburo was naive back then

Still think Pol pot is a a fellow comrade

[shut wren]

Happened with China and Vietnam so

Countries were starting out

New people and shit

[autumn sorrel]

You mean the border war in 80s?

[shut wren]

70s to 80 and early 90s

[autumn sorrel]

Should I mention that my uncle was Cambodian campaign veteran and my history teacher fought chinese in Lang son in 1979

[shut wren]

Nice

[autumn sorrel]

Yeah, that war is still somewhat fresh in the collective mind overhere

[shut wren]

One of my uncles iirc fought the Vietnamese in 79

[autumn sorrel]

Not really nice though, my Uncle fucking hate Cambodian

[shut wren]

I see

[autumn sorrel]

Well, he might have fought my teacher

[shut wren]

I might be getting mixed up here because he was the second ones to rotate in

The PLA rotated in elite division from each command region

[autumn sorrel]

He might have fought during the later border skirmish, you guys were kinda dick back then, treat vietnam as some sort of training ground

[shut wren]

Y’all came into Chinese border towns and shot civilians with AKs

The first part of the war the PLA realized that they had no experience

Soooo

[autumn sorrel]

Funny when think about it, many high ranking officer, divisional and regimental commander of PAVN right now are veteran of war with China, so the attitude in the Army is mostly weary of China

[autumn sorrel]

Wat? You guy shot us first. Deng literally said he will punish us for attacking Cambodia

Why would we go north and shot up some Chinese for?

Well, the relation between 2 country does go bad when VN try to be neutral during Sino-soviet split, Hanoi tend to lean more toward Moscow during that time

[shut wren]

Y’all people were doing what ever and attacking border towns or something

No idea bruh

[autumn sorrel]

Eh, we only do raid after 79 but restricted to the heights that PLA have arty observation post on, never do some small insignificant village

Are you meaning the Chinese deportation edict after 1975?

The deportation edict tend to be overlook here in VN, mostly bc it was group with the "boat people" waves during late 70s and 80s. It was a very censorship era in our history, you might as well called it the forgotten era here

Famine, economic mismanagement, war, low living standard, it is easy to see why people avoid talking about it.

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgtmAeK24nw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCuA4gWoPMY

[autumn sorrel]

Too late for combat?

[manic latch]

It has T in its name

America some reason is unlucky with T named tanks

Either never leaves prototype stage or too late for war

[shrewd pecan]

usually most of the T prototype tanks

didn't leave the T stage for a good reason

[autumn sorrel]

We really miss out on all of those fall out aesthetic tanks

[shrewd pecan]

like the T29, T34, and T30

all impractical and only really served as testbeds

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-QRS79Ei78

[manic latch]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2023/april/time-scrap-lcs

[frigid karma]

Why did bombers never mount missiles as part of their defensive arms?

[manic latch]

If bomber is in missile range than likely enemy fighter as well. And I don't think fighter would choose to go head to head with a bomber

And I doubt bomber would try to dogfight with that gigantic body

Russia will try this tho
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/02/tu-160m-bomber-will-be-able-to-fire-air-to-air-missiles-backwards/

B-52 had a turret behind her tail but that replaced with I think EW? Suite

[runic prairie]

It was also originally supposed to be replaced with a rear-firing AIM-4 Falcon system iirc but development was not pursued beyond some concepts.

A similar system would’ve been on the P-6M Seamaster but that whole project was cancelled.

[manic latch]

Ah

[runic prairie]

Missiles on bombers isn’t an especially new thing. It’s just not regularly implemented because evasion is better than fighting.

But Russian designs are supposed to be high-flying so it might make sense for them whereas U.S. doctrine is/was focused on low altitude penetration.

[manic latch]

British Nimrods with sidewinders yeah

They aren't bombers but size is there

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1646170388068442114

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 2009, U.S. Navy SEAL snipers eliminated three Somali pirates who were holding Captain Richard Phillips hostage on a lifeboat. The pirates had earlier seized the Maersk Alabama, the first U.S.-flagged ship to have been boarded by pirates in two centuries.

Likes

145

Twitter · Apr 12, 2023, 3:16 PM

[runic prairie]

There’s also the ASALM, which was a cancelled project for a successor to the AGM-69 SRAM.

It was a ducted ramjet design that had air-to-ground and air-to-air capability.

The real kicker is that it carried a 200kt warhead.

There was work on a surface launched variant as well.

Like the SRAM it had passive radar homing so it could be used to penetrate air-defenses but this had the side effect of making it useful against AWACS.

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of the modern bomber fleet the bulk of the American fleet these days likely aren't gonna be getting close enough to be intercepted by enemy fighters since cruise missiles

or they have the stealth to easily deep penetrate (B-2)

[runic prairie]

Angry Dale Brown noises.

[shrewd pecan]

no reason for the B-52 fleet to go in close enough when they have JASSM-ERs and AGM-86s up the ass

even the B-21 for nuclear strike missions likely aren't gonna need to get all that close once the AGM-181 shows up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-181_LRSO

merkava 3 through the Leclerc's commanders sight

[frigid karma]

TILthis thing exists

Le Mini SturmTiger

Resembles an A7V from the back

[shrewd pecan]

the actual reasonable assault gun

[frigid karma]

Version with H hull

[shut wren]

There was PLA reports of Vietnamese raids on border villages bruh

[manic latch]

Brumbar

[autumn sorrel]

Is that before 79 or after?

[autumn sorrel]

As in Panzer IV H? What the difference from earlier hull?

[frigid karma]

IV H has side skirts on its hull and turret

earlier models don't have such a model

this assault gun is a brumbarr, it's a PzIV with its turret ripped off for a 15cm gun on a casemate

though as that 2nd pic in tialy shows, the IV H hull was also sued

[autumn sorrel]

Hmm, no engine upgrade, only adding schutzen?

[frigid karma]

they actually ended up adding more armor

[shut wren]

Before

[frigid karma]

though later models used the iv j hull which had a different engine

french cvn revealed

Is it just me, or is that island really far back like a ford's?

[autumn sorrel]

Only thing I know is that there was a call up wave in 78, my uncle who was demobilized after 75 was recalled back to the army but he was assigned to the Cambodian border, Northern border was only get reinforced in late 78 after PLA start transferring more troop there.

[autumn sorrel]

Gerald Ford class?

[frigid karma]

Known for the time being as the PANG (for Porte Avion Nouvelle Génération), the 75,000 tonne (82,673 tons) ship will be 310m (1,017 ft) long and 85m (279 feet) at the widest point of the carrier deck.

The two nuclear reactors, provided by TechnicAtome, will provide electricity for three shaft drives (for a size comparison, the larger US aircraft carriers have four shaft drives). The CEA (Commissariat à l’énergie atomique et aux énergies alternatives) atomic energy commission will oversee the execution and coordination of the reactors, which will only need to be refueled once every 10 years — meaning, at least in theory, the ship could stay at sea for that entire time.

PANG will carry about 32 new generation fighters, up to three E-2D Advanced Hawkeyes (France ordered three in the last days of 2021, for delivery in 2028), and a number of unmanned aircraft.

It will be built by a joint venture, MO Porte Avions (the MO stands for Maîtrise d’Oeuvre i.e. execution and coordination), created in March 2021 between Naval Group and the Chantiers de l’Atlantique. Olivier de Saint Julien, the director, said at the Euronaval show — which opened Tuesday in Le Bourget, in the northern suburbs of Paris — that the Chantiers de l’Atlantique had a dry dock in Saint Nazaire, on the west coast of France, which was big enough to build the PANG. That’s key, because the existing Naval Group dry dock used for the Charles de Gaulle is too small, as the PANG will outclass the older carrier by 159 feet in length and 68 feet in width.

[frigid karma]

ye

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/10/france-reveals-first-look-at-new-nuclear-powered-aircraft-carrier/

[shut wren]

I see

[frigid karma]

2036 for sea trials, seems about right

i would've called it a bit optimistic before but defense funding everywhere is seeing more 0's

[shut wren]

I do remember my uncle said to my family back then that he was going to fight in Vietnam

[frigid karma]

@tough quail baguette boat w/ plon

[autumn sorrel]

Even with the current economy?

[frigid karma]

wait fuck this is from 10/22

I thought this was more recent

This is the more recent stuff

SEA AIR SPACE 2023 — The US Navy has opened a foreign military sales case with its French counterpart to potentially facilitate the sale of two key advanced systems used onboard Ford-class aircraft carriers, according to the officer overseeing the American ships.

The two systems are the electromagnetic aircraft launch system and the advanced arresting gear, both produced by General Atomics. EMALs and AAG are integral to getting planes off deck and back safely more frequently. That tempo, known as sortie generation rate, is one of the most important metrics for a carrier.

“There is an active case for the French to potentially procure EMALS and AAG for their next aircraft carrier. That case is managed mostly by [Naval Air Systems Command],” Capt. Brian Metcalf, the program executive officer for aircraft carriers, said on Tuesday during the Sea Air Space exposition. “On my side of it, I help NAVAIR and the French Navy on the ship integration of that system. How will it get built into the aircraft carrier?”

[autumn sorrel]

So before Macron shit happen recently, it kinda hard to approve the budget right now with the current political climate

[frigid karma]

well, just a week ago. they're considering buying emals

[frigid karma]

macron is most likely just posturing, "a more independent EU" is generic buzzwords

talk is cheap

[shut wren]

[autumn sorrel]

Isn’t Macron still getting alot of flak for merely propose raising the retirement age? I don’t imagine French people letting that slide

[frigid karma]

yea, that's why i think his recent rhetoric is more or less just a smokescreen

the current political climate has [ ] going on, which is why i think more defense spending is pretty likely

[autumn sorrel]

It is easier to distract your citizens with an outside war

I do wonder, who will be aim at for now

[shut wren]

Hmmm

[frigid karma]

my point here is with the rising of geopolitical global tensions, seeing a new french CV in 13-14 years is well within the realm of possibility

wherease prior to 2022 i would've doubted such a goal

[autumn sorrel]

Oh wait, French still fighting in Central Africa, news died down about that one

[shut wren]

[shrewd pecan]

France has the need to power project into Africa, Asia and South America

alongside its defense commitments in Europe

[tough quail]

cool and good

old, but ye

[autumn sorrel]

I see a new stealth fighter on the CV model, French have new fighter program or is it the one they have with other EU nations?

[shrewd pecan]

FCAS

[shut wren]

So uhh

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Combat_Air_System

[shut wren]

Not sure if I asked this yet

But

Thoughts on the NGAD?

[shrewd pecan]

next gen American fighter that will likely continue American air dominance into the coming decades

we don't have much to say about it beyond its a decade out alongside likely costing a arm and a leg

[frigid karma]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-know-dont-know-bird-clueless-gif-12587825

[autumn sorrel]

cough “F-35“ cough

[shrewd pecan]

F-35s decently affordable when it comes to modern offerings

[frigid karma]

all new fighter jets get shat on immensely

just look at f-15

[autumn sorrel]

When they start mass production then the cost fall down ig

[shut wren]

[shrewd pecan]

its already in mass production

[frigid karma]

F-35 had the bonus trauma of coming about in the age of the internet

[shrewd pecan]

the 1000th airframe has already started assembly

they've been producing over 100 airframes a year for the last 5 years

[shut wren]

Don’t they have like 700 in service

[shrewd pecan]

also my new favorite graph

[frigid karma]

would appreciate having a link along with it

[autumn sorrel]

Swede is still neutral foe now, right?

[shrewd pecan]

I got it off of twitter

[frigid karma]

"i saw it in a dream" no longer works

Well tato, that's even worse

[shrewd pecan]

the F-16 numbers line up

with the accident numbers I've seen

[shut wren]

What happened with that Japanese black hawk

[spring briar]

Rejected minions cast

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/

[autumn sorrel]

Should have let them serve Hitler

[shrewd pecan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F-15_losses

[shut wren]

Central Park memorial of 7th infantry regiment from ww1

[shrewd pecan]

https://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-22/mishaps-and-accidents/

https://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-35/mishaps-and-accidents/

the F-16s crash rate especially early on was uhhh

stupid let's just say

I just like that graph since its easy to point to whenever your dealing with people losing their heads over a F-35 crash

[shut wren]

[thorn trail]

a lot of it was controlled flight into terrain iirc

[shut wren]

How many people died for those crashes?

[shrewd pecan]

I'd have to look through the hull losses individually to get you a exact numbers on pilot deaths

[runic prairie]

The implementation of automatic ground collision avoidance systems has been a real blessing.

[thorn trail]

I still don't know why the F-16s seemingly was more prone to ground collisions since from what I've seen the F-16 was more vulnerable than the other fighters

[runic prairie]

It could be because of better manuverability leading to more over-Gs.

Also there’s just more of them and many were less advanced than other U.S. aircraft at the time.

[shrewd pecan]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/type/F4

the F-4 gets up there as well

in 1980 alone about 40+ F-4s suffered crashes or hull losses

[runic prairie]

Old aircraft, similarly old avionics.

Not especially surprising.

Plus low-level strike training.

[shrewd pecan]

again I don't use these rates as saying these aircraft were horrible I'm just pointing at them as a reference point of how much safety has improved with the F-22 and F-35

[runic prairie]

Yeah no it’s pretty amazing, especially Auto-GCAS

That and SUBSAFE have probably saved a lot of lives.

[shut wren]

whats gonna be the next gen US MBT

[runic prairie]

Who knows.

Abrams seems just fine for the time being.

And stuff like Abrams X shows it has room to grow.

[shut wren]

Whats the difference between the M1A2 and the M1A2T other than the name

[shrewd pecan]

its a export M1A2 SEP V3

so

export armor

[frigid karma]

Special configuration variant of the M1A2 SEPv3 reportedly being offered for sale to Taiwan as of March 2019 and approved by US State Department as of July 2019.[155] Per DSCA statement, it is roughly equivalent to M1A2 SEPv3, except depleted uranium armor is replaced by FMS export armor. There is no mention of the Trophy APS system. The new-built tanks will be produced at Anniston Army Depot, Anniston, Alabama, and the Joint Systems Manufacturing Center, Lima, Ohio

[shrewd pecan]

no APS

[shut wren]

Noting

[shrewd pecan]

https://youtu.be/JCq3bcH0OHY anyway I'll also drop this here since it was a nice watch

[shut wren]

I shoulda watched it

[runic prairie]

Do you know if that armor package is Tungsten like in the Aussie Abrams?

[shrewd pecan]

who knows

[shut wren]

Get the minecraft and WT people

[frigid karma]

i know

[shrewd pecan]

probably using KE-W rounds like the aussie abrams

[shut wren]

they know

[frigid karma]

i'm not leaking shit

[shut wren]

Qwerty CIA offical?

[runic prairie]

Wait you guys aren’t CIA?

[shut wren]

im MSS

[shrewd pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/fbi-glow-gif-24347506

[shut wren]

OH SHET

[autumn sorrel]

Try to apply for Section 2, my background isn’t reliable enough

[shut wren]

[runic prairie]

So is this just like the break room for international intelligence agencies?

[shut wren]

and war thunder players

sometimes

[runic prairie]

What’s the difference?

[frigid karma]

You said war thunder

[autumn sorrel]

My great grandfather was landlord so I apparently belong to the Upper class

[frigid karma]

now hit will come in minimodding and tell us to go to #other-games

[shut wren]

We do it legally

they do it illegally

[autumn sorrel]

We only post info that was already leaked so technically nothing was leak here

[shut wren]

ok ok

[runic prairie]

Ask Poindexter how that worked out.

[shut wren]

who tf was that

[runic prairie]

One of the Iran-Contra guys

[shut wren]

huh

[runic prairie]

The 80s were weird

[autumn sorrel]

Is Switchblade in combat in Ukraine?

[shrewd pecan]

both 300 and 600 are

[runic prairie]

Yeah.

[shut wren]

ye ye fr fr

[autumn sorrel]

How combat effective is it?

[shrewd pecan]

extremely

[shut wren]

alright boys we got something new to steal

[runic prairie]

It seems decent. Not much has been shared (possibly by policy) so it’s hard to say.

It’s not really anything revolutionary

[autumn sorrel]

We will soon thrown drone at each other at this rate

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

the US is already planning on doing that with the coyote

[shut wren]

Mhm I love modern warfare

gonna be like COD

[runic prairie]

Lasers are probably the way forward for C-UAS

Just cheaper and better PK than other stuff.

[autumn sorrel]

It will be kinda hell for PLA if they invade Taiwan though, Taiwan is the biggest chip maker and they can definitely make better suicide drone.

[autumn sorrel]

It will be hell irl

[shut wren]

Missile strike those factories before we do it

[shrewd pecan]

good luck missile striking every single garage

[shut wren]

[autumn sorrel]

Isn’t capturing those factory intact was top priority? You don’t get new chip from ashes

[shrewd pecan]

anyway

[shut wren]

I mean

one of the top priorities were the land

its a great position

[shrewd pecan]

have a bunch of flight manuals

[shut wren]

thanks

now i know how to fly my Mig-29 that i totally have

[autumn sorrel]

Need to find and post PAVN after action report for Dien Bien Phu, I doubt the report even exist.

[runic prairie]

The Taiwan strait is really one of those places (like the strait of Hormuz) that I’d rather not be if the balloon goes up.

It’s basically a shooting gallery because of the constrained waters.

[shut wren]

Missile strike the barracks first

Trust let us cook

[shrewd pecan]

that's if the barracks still have personnel in them

[runic prairie]

It’s easy to disperse land based ASMs.

[shut wren]

Fuck it just bomb everything

[autumn sorrel]

Wait till they use containers launcher unit

[shrewd pecan]

the build-up for that type of operation is gonna be incredibly obvious

and is gonna give Taiwan more than enough time to start dispersing its forces

[shut wren]

Yea

hard to conceal a million men and their equipment

[autumn sorrel]

I don’t see any realistic situation where PLA can actually surprise Taiwan

[shut wren]

Cuz it isn't realistic

[autumn sorrel]

Unless they pull the Rus card and do constant drill near Taiwan for maybe half a year, throw enough smoke and maybe you can deceive Taiwan

[shut wren]

First one tomcats?

second one and third is SR-71?

[shrewd pecan]

no there all clearly F-20 tigersharks

[shut wren]

Move everyone into position the night before shit blows

[frigid karma]

beak

[shut wren]

not a good idea

[frigid karma]

Not really

[shut wren]

[frigid karma]

I'll take htis to DMs

[runic prairie]

Russia tried that. Didn’t work too well.

[shut wren]

[autumn sorrel]

Well, you guy have until 2025, Taiwan air force will receive more plane by then and it will be def harder the now

[shut wren]

Ahem

big man at top said by 2027

[shrewd pecan]

their hard limit is 2035 before China hits demographic collapse

[autumn sorrel]

You trust him?

[shrewd pecan]

beyond that

[shut wren]

Yes

[shrewd pecan]

as we mentioned here before

[shut wren]

shit blows yea yea

[shrewd pecan]

Taiwan mainly serves as political theater for China

[shut wren]

alright time to force people to do

uhh

you know what

[shrewd pecan]

its a excuse to hide other issues

[frigid karma]

exactly

[shrewd pecan]

and any actual invasion attempt

is going to cripple everyone globally to such a extent

to where its not worth it

[frigid karma]

it would serve them no purpose or be even remotely rational to invade taiwan

so i fully expect a potential invasion

[runic prairie]

Globalized economies do that sort of thing.

[frigid karma]

😐

[shut wren]

bruh if they do it

do it before 2027

or after 2029