history

[tough quail]

based

[manic latch]

True

[spring briar]

What is being discussed?

[shrewd pecan]

multiple things

Mainly chally 2

[tough quail]

how much better T-80Us are than challys

also dude im me

i rag on the US constantly

[strong plank]

I mean if we really wanna settle this argument all we have to do is wait a few more weeks

[tough quail]

i would be literally the one leaking it

[shrewd pecan]

That is true

[tough quail]

i am excited for cr2s to sink into eastern european mud never to return

[shrewd pecan]

tho I don’t really think the chally 2 is gonna see much tank on tank combat

[manic latch]

Kornet spam

Or 152mm HE

[strong plank]

I’m waiting for someone to inevitably recreate that one part of the Bradley promo where it TOWs a T-55

[cinder escarp]

do I tell you?

[shrewd pecan]

in terms of threats main one’s gonna be artillery

[manic latch]

Ye

[tough quail]

im already aware unless there's like

even more lore to it

[strong plank]

James Burton, wherever he is, is going to be crying tears of salt

[shrewd pecan]

it’s funny to think the chally 2s are going to the air assault brigades

[tough quail]

also real talk i dont expect any of the big boy MBTs to actually be deployed

[manic latch]

You want Challenger 2 in action to see what happens

I want Challenger 2 in action to make Lazerpig mald

[strong plank]

[shrewd pecan]

Leopard 2s definitely going to be deployed

[strong plank]

As opposed to what

Propaganda reels?

[cinder escarp]

There's fools in the US Army too

[shrewd pecan]

chally 2 is being deployed with the air assault troops that previously operated T-80BVs

[tough quail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/515583624083406848/1090727811251175545/well_fuck.gif

well that explains where the measurement came from

[dusty kraken]

Funny how troops supposedly being air assaults are getting one of the fattest MBTs

[shrewd pecan]

honestly it’s the sensible thing to do since you know no one does combat drops anymore

[cinder escarp]

It's more funny that the CR2 will be deploying without applique

[tough quail]

they're going to try to drop them on the front line as kinetic bombs

[tough quail]

wh

wha

[shrewd pecan]

It didn’t get the add on armor

[tough quail]

lmfao

rolling coffin time

[shrewd pecan]

That or we just haven’t seen them with it yet

I’m assuming it’s just gonna end up getting covered with era regardless

[strong plank]

Yeah it’ll get the obr 2023 treatment

[shrewd pecan]

We won’t know until they hit the actual field

[tough quail]

hopefully they can at least scrounge up K5 for them jeez

[shrewd pecan]

You will work with 3BM12 and you will enjoy it

[strong plank]

I mean at least with Ukie ERA

we know it works

[tough quail]

im pretty sure even a T-62 can skewer the LFP of a cr2

so uh

[tough quail]

ukraine is the one with weird hyper experimental ERA that doesn't work though

[strong plank]

I mean opposed to the sheets of rubber and cardboard we were seeing photos of a year ago

[shrewd pecan]

man if your tank is unable to penetrate the unuparmored LFP of a western MBT your ammo designers are beyond incompetent

[manic latch]

Cr2 %100 gonna have Kontakt-1

[cinder escarp]

While I will not discuss [Current_Event] for rules reasons, horse the LFP is easily pennable by a T-34.

[tough quail]

the cr2 lfp is

enormous

[cinder escarp]

It's 76mm and completely flat.

[tough quail]

[manic latch]

Wait

I thought they fixed that

What happened to upgrade

[tough quail]

they "fixed" it with enormous amounts of applique that... yeah

[manic latch]

They didnt put all of them?

[tough quail]

rolling coffin moment

[shrewd pecan]

Ukrainian ones haven’t been seen with the appliqué

[cinder escarp]

The applique doesn't totally cover it

[manic latch]

The more I know about Nato more I believe US is doing %90 of the work

[shrewd pecan]

I LOVE ABRAMS I LOVE ABRAMS!

[strong plank]

Depends on the metrics

[tough quail]

even the abrams ufp isnt this bad

[manic latch]

Abrams one has angle

[tough quail]

you still need a round from the late 80s to punch through it

and not

[strong plank]

I totally didn’t just type up a literature review on NATO defense spending last night

[tough quail]

1944

[shrewd pecan]

The M1A2 V3 also increased the LFP protection I’m pretty sure as well

[manic latch]

Yeah Abrams has Obj 279 moment. Godly slope

[cinder escarp]

mmm, I love photos that giveaway details

[tough quail]

bricc

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCpQv3KNqys

[manic latch]

Simple history

[cinder escarp]

If you are wondering why the lower hull is so bad, the Brit'sh have not developed a new one in decades.

It's all chieftain

[manic latch]

There is no way they carry babies like this as bullet vest style

[tough quail]

im in this horrible flux of

"man the cr2 is so shit"

and

"man the cr2 is so fucking cool"

whenever i look at one

[manic latch]

Sadly I was spoiled alot by Apocalypse tank of command and conquer

So I really don't have favorite looking MBT

[tough quail]

lmfao

yeah understandable

[manic latch]

I literally need something like this to like it

[dusty kraken]

It has BESH so it's rad

[manic latch]

Now THIS I love

[cinder escarp]

That up there is the OG. Vickers Mark 7, the starting point for the CR2's turret.

[tough quail]

ye

[cinder escarp]

Brits then got very close to buying the Mark 7/2 (it is in fact what won the order that became CR2)

[strong plank]

Challenger 2 always looks to me like some sort of uncanny valley Abrams

It’s the cheeks

[cinder escarp]

Those with even a passing knowledge of tanks will recognize that hull.

[manic latch]

Then I offer you Falcon 2

[tough quail]

ive got the reverse

abrams look like mishapen cr2s to me

the lines flow better on challys

[cinder escarp]

(For those who don't know the 7/2 is on a Leo 2 hull)

[shrewd pecan]

The ideal chally 2

[tough quail]

ye

the mk7 is really fun in AW

[strong plank]

Eh i don’t like how the challenger cheeks are just

Wedges

[cinder escarp]

The original Mark 7 used a modified Vickers Mark 4 chassis, which had durability issues. Vickers didn't have the time and money to improve it before the contract deadline, so they just licensed the Leo 2 hull as a quick answer.

[manic latch]

New Abrams...cheek armor?

[cinder escarp]

But well, using the Leopard 2 hull meant that Germany would have export controls on potential Mark 7/2 sales - and the Brits dreamed of exports. So the Leo 2 hull gets ditched, and the Challenger 1 hull is brought back out of the drawing bin.

[shrewd pecan]

M1A2 V3 increased both the cheeks and the LFP

It’s why it’s 80+ tons when it’s equipped with maximum protection

[cinder escarp]

And of course, the great irony in this tale is the only country that the CR2 was ever exported to... is one the Germans have cleared export sales to.

So ditching the Leo 2 hull was quite pointless.

[manic latch]

Bruh ain't European bridges are 70 ton max

[shrewd pecan]

the US can bring its own bridges

[manic latch]

Hmm

[shrewd pecan]

also depends on the type of ton you’re using

Base SEPV3 is only about 66 in European tonnes

overall while I think there’s still plenty of weight savings that could be potentially done with the abrams if you want a tank as well armored as the maximum protection abrams it’s going to weigh like one

[manic latch]

First step

Banish the loader, autoloader with smaller manless turret

[shrewd pecan]

Replacing the wiring with fiber optics and replacing the gun with a newer 120 would shave off like 5 tons

[manic latch]

Smaller and needs less armor for having no crew

[dusty kraken]

No need for turret

[shrewd pecan]

In particular

[dusty kraken]

Become casemate instead

[shrewd pecan]

XM360E1 would be a nice replacement for the L/44

In terms of turret a new redesigned turret something along the lines of K2 type design would likely save further weight

[manic latch]

Ah reference to Object 490's earliest designs?

[dusty kraken]

Swedish doorwedge

[strong plank]

I don’t know if the army would go for an unmanned turret off the bat

[dusty kraken]

Or make a jagdabrams

[shrewd pecan]

tho if we do end up seeing a fully revamped abrams hopefully they’d redesign the hull front to allow for more UFP protection

I don’t think unmanned is a viable option for the army due to both doctrine and concerns regarding redundancies

[manic latch]

What about being future proof. Especially the potential of passing to 130mm

[strong plank]

I imagine they’d be able to make some good design changes just with modern modeling tech

You think about how 3d modeling has come

[shrewd pecan]

A crew-less turret would fundamentally change the way Army tankers fight vs a two man turret or a one man turret HSTVL style

[strong plank]

Yeah the most I could see them doing is future proofing it

Leave the door open but not go for it immediately

[shrewd pecan]

I don’t really think 130 MM is necessary

And if it’s about future proofing you might as well just go back to the 140s

[frigid karma]

Do tell

[strong plank]

Oh I was referring to an unmanned turret

[manic latch]

"I really don't think 120mm is necessary"
-105mm of old

[shrewd pecan]

The 105 outperformed the 120 MM for quite a bit

[manic latch]

Yeah until 120 shells got better

[shrewd pecan]

again 120 MM still has growing room and new tank threats haven’t really materialized to justify larger guns

[cinder escarp]

I was always egging korv on and giving him ideas for his arguments. And Korv's the guy who got fear_naught to make the leak to counter his argument.

[manic latch]

I can't take "korv" name seriously since it's the name of this cutie

Korv not reporting

[shrewd pecan]

You should always go for more velocity over a bigger gun until the gun reaches its maximum growing room

[strong plank]

In terms of 120 v 130 tho I agree

you look at who the army anticipates having to fight

[shrewd pecan]

If this was the cold war still where everyone was making a new tank every decade then sure go with the bigger gun it’s gonna make that tank better against the tanks of the next generation

But tank development has kinda stagnated

[manic latch]

Yeah Soviet 152mm MBTS would change many things for Nato

[strong plank]

Also less of a priority in s hypothetical pacific conflict

[manic latch]

Mbts in pacific

Hmm

Naval and air force will do the carrying there

[strong plank]

Not exactly foreseeing an armor arms race there

[shrewd pecan]

A ACV with a 105 would likely be more usable than a abrams in the pacific

[manic latch]

Japan has Type 10, Korea has K2, China has Ztz-99

Taiwan has Abrams

[shrewd pecan]

I don’t really think Taiwan’s tanks would be seeing much action beyond a worse case scenario

[manic latch]

If they survive from China air force ye

[shrewd pecan]

I mean they likely would

If Serbian and Iraqi tank forces can survive somewhat intact against NATO air forces I don’t see why the Taiwanese can’t

Throw in standard deception techniques like decoys, camo netting so on and so on

[manic latch]

[strong plank]

Oh yeah that reminds me, about the MPF

was interviewing a general who has a hand in some procurement stuff

[shrewd pecan]

Air power isn’t really the best for taking out full formations unless you have absolute air dominance, it’s better to utilize it against more static targets like logistics centers, command centers so on and so on over individual tanks

[strong plank]

jokingly asked if he knew what they’d name it

said his guess would be Starry

[shrewd pecan]

Kinda lame sounding

[strong plank]

We’ll have to wait and see

[manic latch]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donn_A._Starry

[shrewd pecan]

Schwarzkopf I don’t think is appropriate for the MPF

so that’s out of the picture

[strong plank]

Starry’s the one behind AirLand

[shrewd pecan]

Starry would likely be more appropriate

[manic latch]

Scott?

Sounds like scout

[shrewd pecan]

But at the same time it doesn’t really have the power behind it like abrams, Bradley, Stryker or Patton

[strong plank]

Is the MPF meant to be airborne?

[shrewd pecan]

it’s meant to be airlift able

[strong plank]

could always go Gavin

[shrewd pecan]

And is going to airborne units

[shut wren]

What if we lob a cruise missile at it

[manic latch]

Taylor, Custer, Marshall

[strong plank]

Schwarzkopf should be reserved for the next MBT

[manic latch]

Bruh is does feel too German

[shrewd pecan]

Why are you using cruise missiles for single tanks over actual valuable targets like command centers, airfields, air defense systems so on and so on

[strong plank]

I would imagine they would go more modern

Abrams was in charge midway through Vietnam

[manic latch]

What about good ol Petraeus?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus

[shut wren]

Bad wording on my part again

Like one of those old ass DF-3s

[shrewd pecan]

why are you using DF-3s against tanks that might not even be there when the missile gets there

[manic latch]

In January 2015, officials reported the FBI and Justice Department prosecutors had recommended bringing felony charges against Petraeus for allegedly providing classified information to Broadwell while serving as director of the CIA.

[manic latch]

Nevermind I guess

[shut wren]

fuck it lob a nuclear warhead at it

[strong plank]

You’d have bigger problems then

[shrewd pecan]

again

in the phase of the war where the first strike cruise missiles and ballistic missiles are being flung

every enemy unit is going to be scrambling to relocate to new locations where they aren't gonna be hit in the first strike

why are you wasting valuable missiles on individual units over the things that enable said units to fight and are far more static than they're

[shut wren]

No idea

Not a PLA official soooo

[strong plank]

Kids named Patriot and THAAD:

[shut wren]

So basically

We’re supposed to lob cruise missiles at Taipei

Like the command center and president house

Got@it

[shrewd pecan]

ngl there's probably in the first day of a war like that the Taiwanese Patriots are gonna be scrambling to relocate before going to new firing locations

[shut wren]

Surprise attack em

[shrewd pecan]

good luck at that

its gonna be down likely to whatever F-16s can make it off of the runways before they get cratered to protect airspace in the initial hours/day alongside more lower-level air defense systems

[shut wren]

Send like uhh

A Few J-15s or smith

[shrewd pecan]

the block 70s could likely hold their ground against the 15s

[shut wren]

Yea but like ain’t they getting em late 23 early 24

So if we start now…

[shrewd pecan]

its not really like

the mainland is really in a place either to mount a invasion of Taiwan currently

ah I forgot Taiwan had the ground-launched RIM-7s

[shut wren]

Have trust

Let us cook

[shrewd pecan]

I don't think the tens of thousands of military and civilian dead are particularly worth it for either side

nor the value and cost of having to maintain a destroyed Taiwan to the mainland

[shut wren]

Political benefits or smth

Let them cook

[shrewd pecan]

its a island of 24 million people where 50% of the population have some form of military training/experience

[shut wren]

The only stuff I see em using is airsoft BB guns n shit

[shrewd pecan]

in which a war would destroy any economic potential of said island, likely plunge China into a decades-long recession and likely destroy large chunks of the Chinese military in the process even in a victorious war

on top of likely plunging the entire globe into a recession as well

[shut wren]

Eh what’s another 20 years of build up again

[shrewd pecan]

literally the war is not worth it for either side since it would devastate both the US and China, fully cripple Taiwan and likely take the global economy with it in the process

[shut wren]

Let’s hope who ever is in charge of the CCP in 2027 doesn’t go mad shit

[thorn trail]

Taiwan has like about than 50% of high end semiconductor production

Any war in Taiwan is gonna fuck up that for at least 20 years

Because of how long it takes to rebuild the supply chain for that and the fact that only 1 company makes EUV as of rn

[shut wren]

The netherland thingy?

[thorn trail]

yeah ASML

[shut wren]

Yea those guys

They supply TSMC

[thorn trail]

ASML only makes like 2 EUV machine every month or so

[shut wren]

Those shits hard to make

[thorn trail]

those machines are massive af actually

[shut wren]

I know

[spring briar]

@manic latch

Soviet 420mm

[frigid karma]

You have been warned in Azur Lane Official. Reason:

Please refrain from conspiracy to commit a federal crime

[cinder escarp]

Fear had to wipe his internet accounts but had no other crackdown. Is still in Bri'sh army esports even.

[frigid karma]

bruh

[cerulean ice]

Why the heck is there a guy talking about invasion of Taiwan and using "we" to refer to the communist side

do you need a reality check or something?

[cerulean ice]

They won't name it Schwarzkopf because then Schwarzkopf would sue them for copyright infringement

[subtle prawn]

https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1644083836148482049

U.S. Naval Institute (@NavalInstitute)

#OTD in 1968, the battleship USS New Jersey (BB-62) was recommissioned after spending ten and half years in the "mothball fleet" in Bayonne. Six month later, the New Jersey began to conduct shore bombardment in Vietnam.

▶ Play video

Twitter · Apr 6, 2023, 9:05 PM

[thorn trail]

isn't he already dead?

[cerulean ice]

what

[thorn trail]

Oh wait I thought you mean the general himself would sue

didn't know there was a company named Schwarzkopf

[frigid karma]

That guy has a strange hate boner towards the nationalists

[shrewd pecan]

he's a mainlander living abroad

[shut wren]

^what he said

[shrewd pecan]

anyways now that I'm done taking my foster dog for a walk

in terms of a invasion of Taiwan is probably also good to note that likely any form of ground-based warfare would be the great equalizer

all Taiwan has to do is hold the beach heads and push out any breaches that do happen

[shut wren]

Crossing my fingers that they fail

Trust

[shrewd pecan]

the Island of Taiwan itself is a natural fortress that can be only invaded at certain times of the year due to weather conditions

[cerulean ice]

dude, what the fuck

please exercise your senses to investigate ground vegetation

[shut wren]

I just finished touching grass

[shut wren]

Yea I know

[cerulean ice]

you sure don't look the part

[shut wren]

Ok

And

[shrewd pecan]

Even with Chinese naval and air supremacy, the Taiwanese would likely be more than able to deal with beachheads, again they have been preparing for this type of war since the 50s

[shut wren]

Guess who’s also been preparing since the 50s

[shrewd pecan]

naval invasions are the hardest type of operation to pull off

and the Chinese military despite making great strides in modernization is still heavily inexperienced and relatively green when it comes to combat

[shut wren]

I know

Time to get some combat experience

[shrewd pecan]

Taiwan is a peer threat that has the much simplifier task of merely being the defender

[shut wren]

yea I know

[cerulean ice]

you have long since pushed away from the topic of tanks into modern politics so you better just disengage Tato instead of indulging the twat

all you will earn from this is a warn

[shut wren]

[shrewd pecan]

I am aware

tho considering our types of discussions I don't really think this is gonna draw too much ire

since this isn't really touching into the politics or anything merely just the military component

if it crosses the line then I will be happy to cease if asked

[shut wren]

If some red guy (or the orange people) tell me to stop I will

[shrewd pecan]

👁️ I don't think arguing a theoretical war would be horrible for everyone involved is necessarily line crossing

[shut wren]

Let us cook

[cerulean ice]

Tato, nah, you haven't said anything wrong, the other guy though seems to have wet dreams about a genocide

[shrewd pecan]

anyway I'm pretty much done with the topic

[shut wren]

Wha-

[shut wren]

Uhh

Funny American thingy with fuel tanks?

Or is that napalm

[shrewd pecan]

its a photoshop slapping the F-16 conformal fuel tanks and drop tanks on the F-35

I just thought it was funny looking

[thorn trail]

what's with Italians and SAP guns

it seems like the Italians were the only ones who focused a lot into SAP

[shut wren]

It looked like a F-35 so I just guessed

[frigid karma]

Are you basing this out of wows

[thorn trail]

not really

[frigid karma]

Plenty of nations use sap

[shut wren]

[thorn trail]

yeah but from what I've read Italy seemed to focus a lot into it more than the other nations

[ivory ridge]

Not really

The only case where you could say that is looking at BB guns

Where the only 2 shell types for the 381mm was AP and SAP, with no HE

Cruisers and DDs didnt really have SAP

That's a gimmick wows went with for no reason

[delicate beacon]

Not even CLs or DDs with HE + SAP?

[chilly osprey]

Cruisers didn't use SAP

Destroyer ammunition was an SAP, however

The structure of the shell was similar to the American 5" Special Common

[thorn trail]

why no HE?

[chilly osprey]

Shore bombardment with the big guns wasn't really a core mission, so while one was ultimately developed for that role, it was never carried.

[delicate beacon]

SAP is basically HE for against targets with some armour.

[chilly osprey]

It actually wasn't that uncommon for new battleship gun designs to not have an HE shell put into service with them.

The British did so with the 16"/45 Mk.I used on the Nelson-class, as did the French with their 330mm and 380mm.

The British 16" and French 380mm did eventually get HE during WWII, pretty much explicitly for that shore bombardment missions.

[wintry moat]

Britain's cruisers liked using it

[dapper parcel]

What was called "Common" shell in other navy is technically a "SAP"

[thorn trail]

Ooo

[dapper parcel]

They often lack the special steel/hardening process, but nonetheless not a high capacity shells either

[thorn trail]

Would the 7th fleet battleships have been able to fight Kurita's central force if they were able to break through the Taffy's and the 3rd fleet wouldn't have arrived fast enough?

[maiden citrus]

as far as I understand it in the 7th fleet referred to, it would have been Yamato, Nagato, Kongo and Haruna + 15 destroyers and 8 cruisers

vs

West Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee, California, Mississippi and Pennsylvania + 15 destroyers and 5 cruisers (plus some other ships in the area on duties such as picket patrols; 11 additional destroyers and 3 additional cruisers, which brings the total to 26 destroyers and 8 cruisers)

so, yes, they could have

[eternal veldt]

I dont remember if any of the ships were running low on ammo, or just a myth

[maiden citrus]

hm, west virginia only fired like 15 or 16 salvoes iirc, so probably myth

[eternal veldt]

77.3% HC, 22.7% AP according to USNI

The principal anxiety on the part of these flag officers was shortage of ammunition, especially of 14-inch and 16-inch armor-piercing projectiles for the battleships. Owing to the fact that they had been loaded for bombarding Yap rather than fighting a fleet, the battleships’ main battery magazines were initially filled 77.3 per cent with HC (high capacity) bombardment ammunition, and only 22.7 per cent AP (armor-piercing), the only projectile that can penetrate armored decks.1 Moreover, 58 per cent of their HC had been expended in the shore bombardment at Leyte. The battleships, therefore, placed enough AP in their main turret ammunition hoists for the first five salvos and were prepared to shift to HC if they encountered anything smaller than a battleship. And it was agreed that Battle Line should hold gunfire until it could shoot at ranges between 20,000 and 17,000 yards, in order to obtain the highest percentage of hits.

If this is true, 5 salvos is a bit

[maiden citrus]

I see that makes sense too

[eternal veldt]

Slinging HC against Haruna isnt daijoubu

But, I'd argue that the smaller vessels could do the heavy lifting

[maiden citrus]

true, though it's 5 salvoes against inferior enemies and one big boi, and many ships in the prior engagement didn't expend any ammo or very little

[eternal veldt]

Phoenix will beat the fuck out of Noshiro any day

[maiden citrus]

yeah on the cruiser and dd front they're out quantitied and qualitied for this fight, e.g. a lot of the dds are fletchers

[eternal veldt]

Get fucked by 6" machine gun fire

[maiden citrus]

just even for bbs it's a very uneven fight of 6 vs 4, and only one of the four can fight any of the six one on one, let alone outnumbered, even if we hard limit all the ships to only 5 salvoes they initially have prepped, that's a dangerous game

especially considering what wv was doing just prior

[eternal veldt]

I'd also argue that in general Kurita was exhausted

3 days without sleep IIRC, and after a few harrowing escapes first with Atago sinking rapidly, then Musashi going down

[maiden citrus]

like I'm not certain of the formation, but if anything but yamato is the lead ship

[eternal veldt]

Hence Kurita's belief that Taffy 3 was a significantly bigger force

The Centre Force was undergoing formation change when Taffy 3 was spotted, IIRC

[silver crest]

1984 was banned in the ussr for being anti-communist and it was banned in the usa for being pro-communist

[eternal veldt]

From cruising formation to battle formation

[maiden citrus]

3 days without sleep sounds awful

[eternal veldt]

found it

[maiden citrus]

oh

[eternal veldt]

When spotted, Kurita's force was in a AA defensive circle

[maiden citrus]

kongo's about to die

[eternal veldt]

then ordered into battle formation

[maiden citrus]

🪦

taffy is to the northeast I'm getting

[maiden citrus]

so your closest two capital ships to 6 late war us bbs are

two kongo class

[eternal veldt]

At 7:03, Kurita ordered an "All-out Attack"

Basically, no real "organised formation"

[maiden citrus]

which probably means the kongos steam out ahead of yamato even further

pretty unfortunate for them all around it seems

thank you for getting information like the fleet locations and bearings to each other

[eternal veldt]

by 0710, it's this

[maiden citrus]

KONGO NO

DON'T DO IT

[eternal veldt]

0750

Organisation: no

Taffy 3 remains organised, at least for the carriers that are running away the best they can

Rip Gamby, I guess

[thorn trail]

So if the 7th fleet battle line did arrive to do battle, Central Force would have been disorganized af?

[maiden citrus]

and in a poor position to engage them

their weakest ships are the closest to the retreating taffy

[autumn sorrel]

Well, 1984 technically is a authoritarian wet dream and handbook, Orwell may have warn people against that kind of dystopian but he basically laying out the entire “how to do it yourself”

[thorn trail]

yeah but afaik Taffy 3 was retreating to the east while 7th fleet was closer to the coast of Leyte

[eternal veldt]

meanwhile:

Fuck around and find out, I suppose?

[eternal veldt]

I think it partially depended on whether Kurita issued out an all out attack or not

[thorn trail]

yeah so if 7th fleet would have engaged, they would have come from the west of central force right?

[eternal veldt]

Can't believe I have to use Canned Coal for fleet formations, but here we are

Formation 1: ASW formation
Formation 2: Alert/Cruising formation
Formation 3: AA formation
Formation 4: Battle formation

For Ten-Go, for example, Yamato started off as Formation 1 as she exited Kure, then gradually went into Formation 3 by the time US planes appeared

and of course my book on the combined fleet only covers the boats but not the formations

[maiden citrus]

they're retreating to the southwest by 0850, so probably towards the 7th fleet actually, going by all the movements and maps it does seem the 7th fleet is likely, logically, to the southwest

[thorn trail]

[maiden citrus]

they went east into the wind earlier to launch aircraft it indicated

[eternal veldt]

There is one thing

If the Japanese decides to bug out, the 7th isn't technically in a state to pursuit

Because 21 knots

[maiden citrus]

but seems like they completed a 180 to go back south (originally were headed north)

yeah, just if they do sail into them the odds aren't good

[thorn trail]

so Kurita retreating was probably the best idea

[eternal veldt]

Overall though, I don't think the odds are good for Kurita if Oldendorf is involved

[maiden citrus]

it saved his ships, since certain other ships were also beelining towards him

[thorn trail]

if they ran into the 7th fleet, the 7th fleet could have engaged them long enough for TF34 to arrive

[eternal veldt]

Especially if the surrounding Crudivs and Desrons are involved

[maiden citrus]

a fleet that would have not had odds, but a fist to show him

[eternal veldt]

And in a disorganised formation, no less

[maiden citrus]

so while he didn't really accomplish his objective, there really wasn't much he could have done and he made the right choice

[eternal veldt]

Portland, Minneapolis, Lousville, Denver, Columbia on the left flank

Phoenix, Boise, Shropshire on the right

I guess there is Crudiv 7 to contend with, along with a few more CAs

[thorn trail]

Wait what ships were supposed to be in TF34 again

[eternal veldt]

Halsey sent Iowa and New Jersey back if I recall, don't recall what were the accomanying ships

[thorn trail]

that was supposed to guard San Bernandino strait

[eternal veldt]

BB New Jersey(FltF, FF, GF), Iowa
CL CruDiv14: Biloxi, Vincennes II, Miami
DD DesRon52: (Cap J.P. Womble):
DesDiv103 (Cap J.P. Womble):: Owen, Miller, The Sullivans, Tingey
DesDiv104 (Cap W.T. Kenny): Hunt, Lewis Hancock, Marshall, Hickox

More Clevelands join in the fight

[thorn trail]

wait only 2 BBs

thought the other Fast BBs would have been in there

[eternal veldt]

Those two are the fastest

33 knots, haul ass back to the strait once "The World Wonders" was received

[thorn trail]

Oh no not the one that was sent back

the one originally planned to be left behind

[eternal veldt]

Did sink Nowaki along with Chikuma's survivors IIRC

There wasnt one, that was the miscommunication, I believe

Halsey said a formation would be created if enemy forces were sighted

HQ believed that the formation was already created

Hence "Where the fuck are my boats?"

[thorn trail]

yeah afaik Halsey planned to have 6 of the fast BBs in this formation if it was necessary

then didn't detach

[eternal veldt]

http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob/OOB_WWII_Pacific/OOB_WWII_Cape_Engano.php Just take what would be at Engano and take them back to San Bernadino if that is the case

Sibuyan II: Japanese Boogaloo

[thorn trail]

actually have read that if TF34 didn't stop to refuel their accompanying destroyers and ditched them to rush towards Leyte Gulf, they could have caught Kurita's force as it was leaving

[eternal veldt]

Ditching your DDs is very no

You're charging towards a significant enemy force who could be very well organised and in a position to launch a torpedo attack as soon as you are on scene

How to lose your mint capital ship quickly

or worse, a repeat of Indianapolis

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/TheBaseLeg/status/1643920286386122753?t=0eLh3Fa4gCoZ-CwrxRPl8g&s=19

Mike Yeo 杨启铭 is also at post.news/thebaseleg (@TheBaseLeg)

JGSDF UH-60JA Blackhawk missing

Twitter · Apr 6, 2023, 10:15 AM

[eternal veldt]

And speaking of alternative samar

Obligatory reminder of Drach magically refloating the ships sunk at the Palawan Passage to fight Oldendorf

[maiden citrus]

[manic latch]

Beautiful

[frigid karma]

huh

do tell

[maiden citrus]

nothing, both bring liberty

[eternal veldt]

Coming soon: what's the difference between Hood and a carley float

[frigid karma]

one is much less explosive

[manic latch]

He is gonna do infinite variant of these

[tough quail]

what do uss New Jersey and flips through notes hidden valley ranch have in common

[frigid karma]

no, you're doing it wrong

it's USS New Jersey vs Bottle of Hidden Valley Ranch

the winner, of course, is the ranch because it's amphibious and can hide in kansas

[spring briar]

Just found a Chinese post claiming that if this shell exploded in the japanese ship it hit instead of being a dud, the beiyang fleet would’ve won yalu river

What

[frigid karma]

maybe if every other japanese sailor committed sudoku simultaneously

and the fleet doesn't sink itself on the way home

[eternal veldt]

The shell did explode

....Just inside the breech of a Chinese ship, unfortunately

[tough quail]

it gets much more interesting when we get to "What is USS New Jerseys views on the Holocaust?" and the video is an hour and a half long

[maiden citrus]

both are power flexes of garden items

[frigid karma]

"...but"

[astral rover]

how real was Brest irl?

[tough quail]

do not read patton new Jersey's diaries

[tough quail]

Dunkerque preliminary design iirc

or modeled after one

[frigid karma]

quoting silver

Historical Authenticity: 3/5
In WoWS, Brest has 8 pairs of dual-purpose 139mm mounts astern, which were never utilised for such a role. The ship also has an older superstructure, similar to the older Courbet and Bretagne-class battleships. This is highly unlikely as the heavy gun directors of this age are innovatively stacked on top of each other to maximize space use on the superstructure

[frigid karma]

reminder that new jersey is obviously new jerseyan and new york is 18% jewish

[astral rover]

oh coolio

[tough quail]

I honestly totally forgot about the 139s

[astral rover]

so aside from Alaska and Guam for US, who else had designs for large/super cruisers, at least for what could be added to AL?

[spring briar]

Japanese shells at the battle of the yellow sea, french shells at dakar, american shells at gunnery practice moment

[maiden citrus]

strausburger

some other designs are already present in the pr system as no one really built any

[eternal veldt]

The British had a few large cruiser designs, including a Greek Export cruiser with 10" guns

The Ansaldo Cruiser-Killer project for soviets, also armed with 10" guns, are also viable candidates.

The Italians also have a 17,500 ton "Pocket BB" design, if you wish to add that as well.

France also has the "Croiseur de Protege 23,600 tons", also a feasible ship.

[astral rover]

cool cool thanks

[eternal veldt]

Alaska is now on my stinky doodoo list for that stupid bow stem extension

aesthetics all ruined

[spring briar]

Always has been on my stinky doodoo list

[eternal veldt]

I could tolerate her apperance summat

until this

[maiden citrus]

dw alaska I like you

[spring briar]

Biased

[eternal veldt]

CA2-D my beloved

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

the underfed monty?

[spring briar]

“Puerto Rico”

[eternal veldt]

I do dig Payto Rico

[frigid karma]

same deal

[frigid karma]

would you like to see a shipgirl oc of her

[spring briar]

Alaska the sunken cost fallacy

The Magenta, Neptune or Marceau of its day

[eternal veldt]

Not interested in shipgirl version

[spring briar]

No

[frigid karma]

aw

it's a pretty good oc too

[subtle prawn]

Stalingrad, if going by precedent of using the WoWS classification as her ingame classification

[eternal veldt]

like, just throw a clipper bow on her and it's perfect for me

Smol Montana

[spring briar]

I would take USS Michigan as a shipgirl over Alaska any day

Michigan my beloved

[maiden citrus]

it's a shame no one has done the scs

[eternal veldt]

Normal people: Stalingrad BC

Dementia: Stalingrad, missile cruiser

[spring briar]

Russian disc shells

[eternal veldt]

I promise you comrade, it is aesthetic

• and other kinds of things to tell yourself

[spring briar]

Like “Alaska was good”

[eternal veldt]

Alaska would be good, if, uh...

-not a massive cost sinkhole

• has actual things to fight
  -catapult not amidships

[subtle prawn]

Am I allowed to think it's cool at least?

[eternal veldt]

Therefore, Sirene, hand over Scheer

We shall use her as Alaska target practice

[spring briar]

• dunkerque class didn’t exist

[eternal veldt]

Dunkerque has a couple flaws, tbh

the secbat being doodoo

[spring briar]

And was build half a decade earlier

[maiden citrus]

and has virtually no aa or equipment in comparison

[eternal veldt]

also...Germans being a major inconvenience

Eh, Dunkerque's BoGPs show the 37mm ACADs, at least

[spring briar]

If I can take a Dunk and give her the american industry treatment you’d be agreeing

[eternal veldt]

hang on

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

This but swap out the 130’s for 127’s

[maiden citrus]

now we're talking

[eternal veldt]

but yea, the dream

[spring briar]

Strengthen the bow a bit

[maiden citrus]

that camo scheme also looks good

[spring briar]

And finally add full radar fc and upgrade her RPC

[eternal veldt]

well, it's not an accurate scheme

[spring briar]

Wouldn’t cost that much
And you have something Alaska can look up to

[maiden citrus]

it'd be a somewhat slower alaska with better tds (and half the cruising range)

[spring briar]

Speed is garbage

Don’t forget the teachings of the standards maka

[maiden citrus]

while true for what they want to do, cruiser killers do need to be somewhat fast to stay in range a while

[eternal veldt]

huff

[spring briar]

Ok we simply upgrade dunkek to have surals

Bang

34 knots

[eternal veldt]

Dunkerque doesn't have Surals?

[spring briar]

She has indrets

[eternal veldt]

Right. Sural just compressed the size more.

[spring briar]

Yes

And perhaps the space we gain from installing the smaller 127’s can fit another sural or two

[eternal veldt]

You know what, might as well go all the way

[spring briar]

Don’t forget Maka

One nation cannot create perfection

It always takes two

🇺🇸🤝🇫🇷

[maiden citrus]

the red white and blue mix

[eternal veldt]

Huh. Stras with a mack looks surprisingly proportionate, too.

Just need to cleanse what's behind it and squeeze more AA/guns.

[spring briar]

We were busy trying to fix the 130mm DP

[eternal veldt]

You were busy with many things

Should have sealed off the Ardennes with the Maginot too, but thank you Gam*lin

[cerulean ice]

🇬🇧

Am I doing this right

Maka do you have any idea how little those colours narrow it down

Return of Skoda navy 🇨🇿

[eternal veldt]

oh, and off to a slight tangent. Atlanta and Juneau differences, anyone?

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

A certain island also has red, white and blue, but can't say more than that.

[cerulean ice]

🇵🇭

[spring briar]

Flag contains yellow

[cerulean ice]

Wink wink

[spring briar]

Disqualified

[cerulean ice]

Twin 130 and quad 130 do look nice though

[eternal veldt]

They do. Unfortunately it jams like a bitch.

Would be interesting if Le Hardis had Dunkerque's twin mounts.

[spring briar]

Suffering from being the first DP mount ever mounted on a bb

[frigid karma]

fox, why the sudden interest in #history ?

[eternal veldt]

and tbh, 130mm wasn't enough to stop menacing DDs anyway

[frigid karma]

haven't seen you in AL for a while now

[eternal veldt]

so go full insanity and load 152DP + 130DP

Get fucked

[maiden citrus]

a return to the 8'' secondary

[frigid karma]

broke: 8" on lexingtons

woke:

[eternal veldt]

weight was a suggestion anyway

[eternal veldt]

I miss her.

[spring briar]

After my research,
Patrie vs HMS Dreadnought honestly sounds like a semi fair fight as long as dreadnought stays close enough

[quick shard]

Wat type of ship is seigfried?

[eternal veldt]

Battlecruiser/Battleship.

[eternal veldt]

and I'm certain you know Midway's original requirements called for 8" guns.

[manic latch]

Missile Stalingrad my beloved

[eternal veldt]

Actual blueprints actually called O-class as a battleship - something concurred by Siegfried Breyer.

[quick shard]

must be a large cruiser

[manic latch]

Is Kronshtadt with 6 380mm BB to you?

[eternal veldt]

Actually, speaking of Kronk yet again

[spring briar]

Trash(ip)

[eternal veldt]

Don't ask me where to buy it

[manic latch]

Hoo Project 66 too

[maiden citrus]

69

[manic latch]

Kron is 69 ye

[eternal veldt]

69 and 69-I, yea

[maiden citrus]

nice

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

Kronk looks alright, just not a fan of the bow

[spring briar]

305mm shell from Dingyuan

[eternal veldt]

Also, you know how model kits always has the vehicle looking great and all that

Try this person, how to sell your kits fast

[spring briar]

305mm dingyuan shell fragments recovered by the Japanese

Mf just shattered

[manic latch]

Here is story of Project 66

[eternal veldt]

I know. I also know of the variant with the quad 130s.

[manic latch]

"Stalingrad is too precious to chase 203mm cruisers. Build a 220mm cruiser to chase them instead"
-Stalin

[spring briar]

And that’s how not to gamble with ships

[manic latch]

Yeah it was a proposal for all ships using twin 130mm BL-109

That's why Super Krem and Nakhimov also has them

[quick shard]

who dat?

[manic latch]

Project 66

[spring briar]

Mad at you krem

[quick shard]

dat alot of guns

[eternal veldt]

ah, finally had the time to check that video game for WV44

honestly quite incredible, pathetic if you will

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

One fucking job..

[spring briar]

I showed you 420mm krem

You didn’t respond

Blocked

[frigid karma]

i feel like this is a questionable decision

[spring briar]

It’s literally gambling

[frigid karma]

you're a brown water navy, why are you chasing american cruisers presumably into open waters with carrier aviation and submarine likely stalking around

[manic latch]

Well he does mention the danger of chasing

So if you have to kill it

Use something less expensive

[manic latch]

Cutie

[manic latch]

Oh

I mean

It's wrong but really need to focus on it to see it

Most whales barely look at their ships

[eternal veldt]

yea nah, most people know WeeVee for being an actual sniper IRL

definitely catering to the naval history people...but.... WG being smoothbrained as usual

5 minutes of coding will literally fix it, but brain damage is too hard for them,

[maiden citrus]

give wv

[eternal veldt]

tbh, might even skip this entirely knowing the state of the game, will see what happens

[manic latch]

War thunder will do better job

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/sikorskys-protest-of-bells-v-280-win-over-its-sb1-shot-down

[eternal veldt]

Gaijiggle's wall annoys me

but their Nevada's pretty good at least.

[manic latch]

Strong too

[eternal veldt]

Thanks to Maka though, I can just simply nab the model and no need to pay anything

[maiden citrus]

[maiden citrus]

and honestly wows state is fine, it's fun

wt nevada is super pretty though, I have it saved for refs

[eternal veldt]

Eh, each to their own. the teams and subs piss me off lately.

Wish there's more operations, then I'll play more.

[spring briar]

The way they butchered Duguay Trouin

[eternal veldt]

WT got the rof nerfed, right?

[maiden citrus]

ofc

[manic latch]

Currently it's uhh 48 sec reload I think

[eternal veldt]

I meant Duguay Trouin

[manic latch]

Oh

[spring briar]

Penetration mostly

[manic latch]

Duguay is 14 sec reload

[eternal veldt]

a 1.x BB RoF is actually pretty reasonable tbh

Even Iowa's were on a ....30+ second reload cycle, I recall

I wonder if they fixed Mogami's stupid 6m rangefinder yet though.

[manic latch]

What was the problem

[eternal veldt]

Mogami's E2 turret should be using an 8m rangefinder, not 6m.

[manic latch]

What's the good rangefinder size for a BB

406mm especially

[eternal veldt]

Richelieu was using 14m IIRC

Yamato at 15?

[manic latch]

I think Soyuz was 12m

Damn Richy

Tho she is quad

Got the room

[eternal veldt]

Not sure about the US and UK, actually.

[maiden citrus]

it's at least in the band of historically accurate

being the lowest possible value without falling out of it

and this being wt one can imagine other vehicles not adhering to such a thing being the general rule

[eternal veldt]

Well yea, not like we're about to leak classified material to justify it

[frigid karma]

heard someone claim he was switching to WT because there isn't HE spam there

I don't play top tier naval myself but doesn't helena like

[maiden citrus]

just like how even with maximum crew skills nevada secondaries aren't historically accurate reload speed, still too slow

[frigid karma]

eat every BB ingame because the HE just murders the crew

like instead of staying in the citadel, the crew just run around on deck and in unprotected sections of the ship and get spalled to death

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Uhhh

[eternal veldt]

Jordan's book, I presume?

[manic latch]

Helena is more broken than Des Moines

[eternal veldt]

But thank you

[manic latch]

Because of the fact she pumps 15 152mm

[quick shard]

hm general having another history session i missed?

[spring briar]

Until she overheats her barrels

[eternal veldt]

Littorio's ones are surprisingly small.

[manic latch]

Des Moines suffers because she is 6.3

So sometimes have to vs BBs

But Helena?

Comfy at 6.0

[eternal veldt]

A shame WT fucks up her camouflage.

[manic latch]

Oh damn

Littorio is Soyuz level

Italian Fren once again

[quick shard]

switching sides

[manic latch]

Sushi Pizza time

[maiden citrus]

[quick shard]

DISGUSTOSO

[maiden citrus]

littorio handing me a hot dog pizza

god bless

[frigid karma]

unsurprisignly, from new jersey

[quick shard]

Is dat a kabab?

[maiden citrus]

made myself a hot dog at work today, it was a good day

[manic latch]

Man DM was such a good design Project 66 had very hard time against her during war games.

Now Project 66 has like 20km more range than DM
But

1. Long range is sus, since there is barely hit chance and Project 66 may end up without ammo by all the shots she makes at DM

2. Medium range is better but DM has fire rate advantage and Soviets consider her fire control as superior. So risky for 66

3. close range. 66 has much superior balistic for penetration but DM is at full potential for her reload advantage

[quick shard]

Ima get the bleach-

[manic latch]

Your pfp

I thought it was a guy with a beard

[quick shard]

Thats my gf;-;

[frigid karma]

your gf is very handsome

is she available :3

[quick shard]

Wat

[frigid karma]

i like women with big beards

[quick shard]

THATS A FACEMASK

[frigid karma]

sure it is buddy

[quick shard]

DONT GET THE WRONG IDEA

[quick shard]

i changed it now shut

[frigid karma]

t-35 is convergent evolution

[spring briar]

My gf now

[maiden citrus]

me

[frigid karma]

my Swedish post-World War II main battle tank, designed and manufactured in Sweden. with the Swedish military abbreviation of stridsvagn, Swedish for chariot and tank (literally combat wagon), and the 103 coming from being the third tank in Swedish service to be equipped with a 10 cm gun.

[manic latch]

Ok yeah

Virgin Nevada crew reload 52 seconds

Chad one reload 40 seconds

Her biggest problem is she doesn't have SAP

[frigid karma]

the problem with US BBs afaik is they use IRL sustained reload speeds while other BBs use optimal reload speeds

USN line as a whole is horribly imbalanced, top tier is dog while low tier is horrifically op

and moffet is just omegalul what

[manic latch]

Yeah US DDs are next level

Dreadnoughts will be pay wall for Whales to speed grind it for fast BBs I guess

[spring briar]

Maka gf

[manic latch]

Looking at navweapons

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Nevada reload is true I would say

Navweapons say 1.5-1.75 rounds per min

Good ol Colorados will also be 1.5

[alpine onyx]

Didn't even realize they do, and all of them do

I should read the blueprints instead of just counting rivets and stuff

[manic latch]

It only gets better with 406mm Mark 6 of NC

2 rounds per min

[spring briar]

Sirene

[quick shard]

should i roleplay as a IB skk?

[manic latch]

Roleplay is against rules

[alpine onyx]

Hi Richie

[quick shard]

OH FUCK

[maiden citrus]

correct, and then even in the sustained reload speeds it's the minimum, as I said

[quick shard]

NIGERUNDAYOOOO

[manic latch]

Yeah max crew training should make her 35 seconds not 40

[eternal veldt]

Honestly, if US BBs are their actual historical ones

your AA would be shredding any planes coming at you

[alpine onyx]

looking at O's blueprints, ugh, my head hurts

[maiden citrus]

skill issue

learn the matchup

[spring briar]

Where

[eternal veldt]

Not even get close

Just a 127mm VT fuse tearing your wing off as soon as you spawn

[maiden citrus]

sadly, though I'm semi a lot of the time

[alpine onyx]

why would one put the combat medic center within the citadel

and it's not even small

it's huge

[eternal veldt]

Protection

[alpine onyx]

[manic latch]

I got warned for pretenting to like QE

[spring briar]

Sachsen class ironclad

[alpine onyx]

and why are regular storage rooms in the citadel

reeee

[eternal veldt]

Honestly, I just like the O-class' aesthetic

[alpine onyx]

their aesthetics are nice, I just think they are a strategic deadbirth

[manic latch]

Strategic deadbirth

[frigid karma]

everyone knows the reason hood detonated was because an officer's teacup's saucer was destroyed by the shell, and rather than face the humiliation of drinking tea without a saucer he chose to self-immolate

[manic latch]

Like Spahkreuzer?

[frigid karma]

hence why regular storage rooms have to be in the citadel

[eternal veldt]

Aegir to some extent makes sense to me, tbh

Bigger Scharnhorst of some kind

[manic latch]

[alpine onyx]

wait, the word is stillbirth

[eternal veldt]

just...not as protected

[alpine onyx]

throws dictionary into corner

Aegir is better, yes

[manic latch]

More justification for Kronk to exist

Dutch 1047, Kronshtadt, Scharnhorst

[alpine onyx]

Aegir as a faster Scharnhorst with less protection kinda makes sense if you want to double down on convoy raiding

[spring briar]

Biggest plus are the 305’s

[alpine onyx]

305s mean more ammo and better volume to slap aside cruiser escorts

though the auxiliary armament is still in need of some love

at least one extra pair of 105 twins, if nothing else

[eternal veldt]

Adds it to weather deck with no protection

[alpine onyx]

I think one pair was already on the weather deck

[spring briar]

And arguably less ammo needed per target

[alpine onyx]

with the enclosed C/38 mount that's less of a concern, but still would prefer raised mounting

since even the enclosed and raised 5"/38s on the SoDaks had their issues in heavy weather

[eternal veldt]

The 15cm mounts are the same as the Spaehkreuzer ones, if I recall?

[alpine onyx]

mhm

and the 1936As

quite good mounts, despite the sour taste they left on the DDs

[eternal veldt]

The hull sucked...can't do much

[alpine onyx]

too large of a mount for a DD

[eternal veldt]

Compensating for something?

[alpine onyx]

yes

for the lack of scouts

[spring briar]

Took just shy of 2 hours to sink Glorious with only a short break in the engagement
Mf 11” bursters

[eternal veldt]

Just take more torpedo tubes off Shitzig and use it to finish the job

[manic latch]

I just need to teleport Atlanta class and Sumner class to Soviet Navy during 1941

Those DP VT fuses would help alot

[alpine onyx]

If I believe WT they had VT fuzes during the war

[manic latch]

Yeah it's weird cold war ammo they slapped to all 130mms

[spring briar]

You need to teleport stalin away in 1941 and put someone with a sense of urgency in charge

[manic latch]

Kuznetsov of course

He knew invasion was coming

[eternal veldt]

Get Zhukov in charge

Cold War avoided

[manic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/zhukov-gif-20082782

[spring briar]

Boom best friends with eisenhower

[manic latch]

Cola factories in Soviet Union

[spring briar]

I prefer dr pepper

[manic latch]

"It was me Zhukov"

[spring briar]

Send this to a SHS simp without context

[spring briar]

Wtf

How to scratch your breech

[maiden citrus]

send this to shell enthusiast

[manic latch]

How bout this

[spring briar]

Warhammer?

[manic latch]

Duh

[spring briar]

Thanks I hate it

[maiden citrus]

my basement

I'm just exercising my 2nd amendment rights

[spring briar]

And this, people
This is how your shell gets stuck in armor

Tiny cap syndrome

[maiden citrus]

to be fair by sticking shells into enemy armor you can stick nasty messages inside them

[spring briar]

“Thine breath smelleth from across the ocean”

[eternal veldt]

Put a strongly worded letter inside the shell to convince them to retreat

[frigid karma]

sticking missiles into enemy planes is also how to kickstart soviet missile programs

[maiden citrus]

written on the shell is; 'you suck and will be distracted as you disarm this'

[frigid karma]

instead of putting your shell design in shells, send them strongly worded death threats

[maiden citrus]

to be historically accurate the shell pamphlets should include incorrectly labeled condom sizes

[eternal veldt]

something similar to this:

||"What the hell kind of knight are you: the devil shits and you and your army eat [it]! You Alexandrian beerbrewer, Cossack quiver, Podolian hangman, Armenian pig, swine's snout, mare's asshole, butcher's dog! You're not fit to command the sons of Christians, we'll fight you on land and sea, unbaptized brow, fuck your mother! We don't know the date, we don't have a calendar, but the day with us is the same as with you: kiss our ass!"||

[spring briar]

Is maka hinting at an event in her family history

[maiden citrus]

just a cold war funny

[manic latch]

Operating a Macrocannon is extremely taxing and tiring, and the sheer size and weight of the components makes any mishap that occurs almost always a fatal affair, crushing the life out of the poor wretches involved. Life expectancy amongst such crews is often measured in mere weeks.

[maiden citrus]

that's why you eat a hot dog and transform into popeye before you operate it

[manic latch]

Just as the Founding Fathers intended

[eternal veldt]

He'll buff out

[frigid karma]

spinach hot dog!

that's a novelty

[maiden citrus]

this beef is so pure it has 40g of iron

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

Meh

It’s the HE variant

[thorn trail]

Does Sabot make sense for battleship guns?

or no?

[maiden citrus]

you ever wonder if richy's bathtub is a hollowed out HE shell

[manic latch]

Rich. How large I need a Man o War to be so I can have Tsar cannon broadside?

[eternal veldt]

Short answer: no

[manic latch]

[eternal veldt]

Ship of the lines at 80 guns were already at their maximum limit, in fact, they hogged very badly due to the weight

[spring briar]

France had prototype sabot’s for their 155 and 203mm guns

Which they never used so no

[thorn trail]

actually how stupid is if Sabot was use as the armament in like 15in guns

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Without modern construction technology, trying to put somewhere around 30-60 of these things on a ship of the line will just cause the ship to break in two

[maiden citrus]

wooden ships were kinda at the material's limit

[spring briar]

Yeah no

[eternal veldt]

That's why even 80 guns were not that popular

74 was the best they could do, and only one deck of 32 pounders at that

This big lad....yea.

[spring briar]

Also the recoil would not be able to be contained

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

The gun would just become a battering ram

[eternal veldt]

Impossible, you want to reenact Lepanto?

or Salamis?

But really, if you want actual weapons against ship of the lines

try a mortar ketch

or the good ol' fireship

Soleil Royal

[thorn trail]

wait what actually was the reason why older BBs have like straight fronts while newer classes like Bismarck has like a curve

[frigid karma]

Why would you use sabot in ships tho

[eternal veldt]

If you mean the US standards, look closely at the bow area

[frigid karma]

You’d have a thin rod of steel that couldn’t do much damage after penetration anyways

[eternal veldt]

there's usually a bunch of casemates there, sealed off or not

Unfortunately, casemates bad

[spring briar]

Naval sabots are basically mini shells
They have a small burster

[thorn trail]

actually not really the Standards more like the british BBs

[eternal veldt]

Look at QE. Also a bunch of casemates near the bow area.

[manic latch]

Didn't Izmail had sabot looking shells. Or something close to her caliber

[eternal veldt]

Which were quite wet too if I recall.

[thorn trail]

Even the Nelson and KGV class? those bows look flatter than the other corresponding size BBs

[spring briar]

(This is fake mind you)

[eternal veldt]

If we're talking about that, then it relates to block coefficiency and hydrodynamics

the sleeker the ship, technically the faster it goes

[thorn trail]

ah it has to do with hydrodynamics

[eternal veldt]

If you want one of the greatest examples of sleek ships, look no further than the good ol' Clipper

Extremely thin hull, as long as possible for maximum speed

For closer examples, see also Iowa and Hood

[thorn trail]

so the clipper bow is because to make the ship as sleek as possible

[eternal veldt]

both are ships that are extremely sleek and long to ensure the ship goes as fast aspossible

[manic latch]

Lexington?

[spring briar]

You mean those 305mm HE sabots?

[eternal veldt]

Slight problem: Their seakeeping sucks omega dick, as it usually happens to fast ships

[manic latch]

I think so

[eternal veldt]

Lexington got turned into a carrier, so it's not as visible as an example

[manic latch]

Fat = turn fast

Slim= go fast

[eternal veldt]

Iowa's design for speed is very easy to see

Which is fine and dandy until mother nature tells you to eat shit

or worse, Dunkerque

[spring briar]

Mb yeah they were for the 14”/52

[eternal veldt]

bow broken and dangling off from heavy weather

and turret 1 basically being a submarine

[manic latch]

Izmail's shells @thorn trail

[thorn trail]

I presume it's also why British ships were not as streamlined as the US ships since they were meant to mostly do battle in the stormy North Atlantic?

[eternal veldt]

Atlantic conditions were a major consideration, yes.

Even then, the KGVs were not satisfactory with seakeeping.

[thorn trail]

woah didn't really expect Sabot shells for BB guns to exist

[alpine onyx]

and then there are the Northern Seas