history

[kindred reef]

idk

[ivory ridge]

[kindred reef]

ive heard the puma is good is that true?

[junior trench]

every PUMA sent to a firing range broke

[kindred reef]

lmao

[manic latch]

They are broken down

[kindred reef]

worse than bmp???

[manic latch]

German complexity is a habit I guess

[junior trench]

PUMA breaks

BMP just kills you

but I guess you still get to the fight to die in a BMP

which counts for something

[manic latch]

You know shit is wrong when you compare one of most modern IFV to decades old Soviet one that actually can go to locations

[kindred reef]

why does such a powerful country have such a bad tank force

[junior trench]

that's where you're wrong

about the powerful part

and the answer is the same

end of cold war rot and negligence

[kindred reef]

well it is one of the top economies in the world so i assumed it

[manic latch]

Germany barely focused on Military after 1991

Very underfunded

[kindred reef]

is their navy any good? ive heard they dont even have a carrier

[kindred reef]

why?

[manic latch]

Germany is afraid of weapons I guess

Dunno

[ivory ridge]

The big spending they announced at the start of the year (and that people thought was becoming the biggest military in Europe) was cut in half and was meant to be in 10 years span

Average Idiot: germany Is coming back! The old war machine Is waking up!
The Truth:
We Need Money to rebuild something pls

So lmao

[kindred reef]

its never a waste of money to protect your country, what else is the money going to?

[junior trench]

no

[ivory ridge]

It's very bad

[junior trench]

stop me if you've heard this before

one of their newest ships is

overweight

underarmed

below spec

[ivory ridge]

Like i would take the dutch over germany

Any day

[junior trench]

that's right

the Germans made Bismarck 2: Even Worse This Time

/joke

/sort of

[maiden citrus]

bragging rights of certain various things they have 1% better than other countries while having entire industries floated for them

[kindred reef]

it seems like the germans dont even care about germany

which army is better germany or austria?

[desert agate]

German navy exists entirely as a tech demo for German firms to advertise their exceptional diesels

[maiden citrus]

germany be like; paying that 1% of gdp into nato

'b-but we have x in our country' (debatable if better than the alternative)

[desert agate]

The Luftwaffe could be beaten by the RAF

The army uses broom sticks in place of HMGs on exercises because they don't have any

[kindred reef]

what does the luftwaffe even have, skyraiders?

[manic latch]

Wot

[desert agate]

Eurofighter

[kindred reef]

isnt eurofighter ok?

[desert agate]

It is

[kindred reef]

no good aam?

[desert agate]

But RAF has F-35s

[kindred reef]

wait actually?

bro

[desert agate]

Which is the only reason why the Luftwaffe would lose

[kindred reef]

how did they get f-35???????

[manic latch]

Money

[desert agate]

RAF is the 2nd most pathetic air force in europe

[ivory ridge]

are you talking RAF or RAAF, im confused

[kindred reef]

what is best? russian?

[desert agate]

The F-35bs on the Queen Elizabeth class are owned and operated by the RAF

[maiden citrus]

[desert agate]

Uh

[manic latch]

America

[desert agate]

Italy or France I guess

[kindred reef]

what about europe?

[ivory ridge]

🦅

[manic latch]

Uhh

America?

Can't they enter Europe when they want lmao

[kindred reef]

so the mirage would beat su-57???

[ivory ridge]

what Su-57

[desert agate]

SU-57 can't fight lmfao

[maiden citrus]

it's true I picked up my country and put it there

[desert agate]

there's uh

3 of them

all prototypes

all bad

[kindred reef]

i heard the russians had a scary plane in production idk

[manic latch]

10 test 7 serial*

[manic latch]

That's China

Because China gets something new every week

While most pictures come with leaks or civilian photos

[desert agate]

media reporting on defence sectors is very much flawed

[maiden citrus]

the reality distortion field became hard to maintain so it switched to china as a scapegoat

[desert agate]

the only people less trustworthy than politicians are journalists

[kindred reef]

yeah

[desert agate]

but yeah European defence sectors have kinda been eating shit in the last few decades

i mean

[kindred reef]

why doesnt europe care that they are easy to invade?

[desert agate]

mfw my former colony with 1/3rd the population now has an air force better than me

who is going to invade?

[ivory ridge]

if you dont include actual readiness the Luftwaffe is bigger than the AMI

[manic latch]

They are part of Nato so likely knowing America would carry them?

[maiden citrus]

they rely on certain foreigners to pick up their slack

[ivory ridge]

and we only have 19 of our planned F-35s because we build most of our own

[desert agate]

the Russians certainly aren't getting any closer to Europe

and that leaves uh

Serbia

[kindred reef]

and one of them crashed in texas

[desert agate]

as hostile nations in Europe

[ivory ridge]

Belgrade will be ash again inshallah

[kindred reef]

im pretty sure all of the balkans want to kill each other

[desert agate]

that was an American F-35 not an Italian production one

and also

planes crash

it's simply how they go

especially new planes

[manic latch]

Crashes are normal
23.06.2014: USA F-35A

• 27.10.2016: USA F-35B

• 28.09.2018: USA F-35B

• 09.04.2019: Jap F-35A

• 19.05.2020: USA F-35A

• 29.09.2020: US F-35B (3,4)

• 17.11.2021: UK F-35B (2)

• 5.01.2022: SK F-35A

• 24.01.2022 USA F-35C

Then there was 3 more later

[desert agate]

RAAF lost 6 of their Hornets in the first 5 years of operating

and 1/3rd of all their mirages

and dont ask the Germans what they think about starfighter

[kindred reef]

germany should buy an f-35 it seems like they are falling too far behind

[manic latch]

They did

[ivory ridge]

they uh

are

[desert agate]

they have bought F-35

[kindred reef]

oh

[ivory ridge]

a whole 35 of them

[kindred reef]

why so many?

[desert agate]

hey a squadron and a half isnt that bad (it is)

[desert agate]

thats not a lot

[manic latch]

Less than 50 fighters. It's not many

[desert agate]

Australia is getting 100

[kindred reef]

couldnt they buy one and reverse engineer for cheaper?

[desert agate]

that isnt how it works

[ivory ridge]

[manic latch]

China will grow larger

[desert agate]

firstly the Americans wouldnt let them do that

[kindred reef]

????

[desert agate]

secondly its massively more expensive

to reverse engineer something

especially with how cheap F-35 is

[kindred reef]

how much do they cost?

[manic latch]

100 mil?

[desert agate]

they're the cheapest in-production Western fighter

by a long shot

[kindred reef]

what about f-22?

[maiden citrus]

they don't have anything to make it, they don't know how to make it, and letting them operate them to defend themselves is being nice, when you break trust like that with the only thing giving you a military, you forfeit all future of that deal

[ivory ridge]

that's what happens when you make it the official alliance plane and sell it to like 20 different countries

[desert agate]

F-22 isnt in production it was also massively expensive

[manic latch]

US forbid export of F22

[kindred reef]

is it better???

[manic latch]

Older so

Dunno

Does turn better tho

Thrust vectoring

[desert agate]

F-22 is an air superiority fighter

and will wipe the floor with just about anything thrown against it

F-35 is a highly networked multi-role fighter which will use its friends to help it wipe the floor with just about anything thrown against it

and also drop bombs on ground targets

and in a few years when the US stops fucking around with older software, fire anti-ship missiles too

[manic latch]

Cmon F22 can do that too. It's what she mostly did ironic enough

[desert agate]

not F-22s primary role

[manic latch]

Well ye

[desert agate]

and also significantly less networking

networking = capability in the 21st century

[manic latch]

Will need to see how that works

[ivory ridge]

something something drone swarm

[desert agate]

F-35 has the most powerful radar ever mounted to a plane of its size, effectively equivalent to a previous generation AWACs

it can use this radar to act as an AEW aircraft from European flat tops through data-link with those ships

it can use its radar in "stealth mode" to allow more heavily armed aircraft to vector onto a target

its EW suite is more capable than just about anything else available in any air force, bar the E/A-18G

[manic latch]

Find a partner that speaks with you like how Spon speaks about F-35

[desert agate]

F-35 can also data link with ground forces allowing for faster, more precise strikes

[maiden citrus]

just sell the australian military some hardware and this comes included

[manic latch]

I'm wondering if Europe will go full American fighter export mode if FCAS and Tempest fails

[desert agate]

future F-35 software blocks will also be able to communicate directly with LRASM helping to guide the missile onto target with it's own radar until the LRASM gets close enough to guide itself using passive emissions only

[manic latch]

They already suffer from lack of fifth gen experience

They will try to long jump Sixth gen

Whatever Sixth gen means that is

[desert agate]

networked capability is the future and armed forces like Russia and China would be best to stop treating it as secondary to other requirements

[manic latch]

Why it's future?

[maiden citrus]

logistics and decision making speed improvements = win

[desert agate]

giving commanders and combat personnel such as pilots, MWOs, and platoon commanders access to information regarding entire battlefields allows them to make decisions that are wide reaching and significantly better coordinated with their peers

networking allows this information to be delivered quickly and clearly so that responses can be formulated in the shortest possible time

[manic latch]

This does not carry the danger of whole thing collapsing if this network gets cut off right?

[desert agate]

data-linked emissions are stored and transmitted from the hardware itself creating effectively a local network

it's incredibly difficult to cut off and if it were to be, traditional methods still exist

[manic latch]

Skynet will be real after all

[maiden citrus]

yeah at worst if you somehow take it all down it just puts the bad guys back to communication parity with you

but now with numerous resources spent to take that down temporarily

[desert agate]

but given that western EW capability is significantly greater than any peer adversary i find it hard to believe that data link could be effectively interfered with for any amount of time

[maiden citrus]

right

[desert agate]

all you need is a flight of data-linked growlers or even F-35s with EW pods and your networking is secured

[manic latch]

Hmm

If potential rival countries didn't existed

[dapper parcel]

You don't even need that, with just something as "simple" as a secure spread spectrum it's mathematics itself that guarantee your link is secure

[manic latch]

What developments would take place instead?

[dapper parcel]

The need for commercial communication will naturally push for such capability

[manic latch]

Full cyber security focus?

Anti terror focus?

[ivory ridge]

anti aliens

[manic latch]

That's kinda based ngl

Nasa does work on anti meteor weapons

I think

But

You need to have something to counter it

[frigid karma]

No funding

[manic latch]

You wouldn't need stealth if radar didn't existed

[frigid karma]

So uh

Nothing

[manic latch]

F

[shrewd pecan]

honestly

I can forgive the germans for their 2000s rot

especially post great recession

considering how bad their economy got at certain points in the 2000s and the 90s

tho the complete negligence of the German army post 2014 is just

a absolute failure of German Foreign and Security policy

[nimble jay]

anyone has good reads on the norman-sicilians?
or the hautevilles in more specific case

those ppl sounds based as fuck in AoE2

[kindred reef]

is it just me or did Ägir have some goofy turret designs

[random trench]

It was pre-dreadnought I think

But I may be wrong

The Germans were still wondering how Britain figured out how to do dreadnoughts

Plus Agïr is a heavy cruiser

[tough quail]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/630553822036623370/1056285776222113822/rprht_azurlane221224_2.gif

[random trench]

Yes

@kindred reef one other thing when comparing soviet to German was that soviet equipment really wasn’t that notable in the air aside from a few standouts

It was a pure industry war in the east

[tough quail]

err

what

[random trench]

Grand strategy of the eastern front in world war 2

We’re talking equipment

[kindred reef]

nah bro look up Ivan Kozhedub

[random trench]

He was cool but like

Not the top fighter ace

That was René Fonck

[tough quail]

there were several very good soviet planes in ww2 tho, especially in regards to low altitude fighters

[random trench]

In air to air the Soviets consistently struggled

[tough quail]

and they basically had the only actually good anti-tank CAS

everything else was a bunch of flash with little effectiveness

[random trench]

The Germans built their dog fighters with spitfires in mind

[kindred reef]

soviet planes were good at dogfighting, and they had good planes for intercepting bombers too

[random trench]

They were good but against altitude fighters like the FW-190 and ME109-K they struggled

[kindred reef]

im not saying that soviet planes were the best, but they just dont get enough respect and are overshadowed by p-51 and such

[random trench]

By war’s end they definitely closed the tech gap

[tough quail]

just do what i do and circlejerk how PTABs made all other CAS look like shit

[random trench]

They could definitely compete with their German counterparts

[kindred reef]

well technically erich hartmann had more

[random trench]

But it took loss after loss after loss

For the Soviets to learn anything, and this translates to Russia too, they have to lose over and over before they get it

They didn’t have a staple fighter like the brits did

With the spitfire which had 26 variants

[tough quail]

...err

do you not know what yaks are

[kindred reef]

hurricane is epic

[random trench]

They didn’t just use yaks

That’s the thing

[kindred reef]

spitfire bad ong

[tough quail]

the brits didnt just use spits either

[random trench]

The Soviets had to try a lot of different fighters before they could stick to the La-7

[tough quail]

they didnt even majority use spits

[random trench]

My point being that the premium dogfighter was the spitfire

[kindred reef]

the best one was the hurricane

[random trench]

The hurricane shot down bombers and did better CAS while the spitfire gained air superiority

[random trench]

Tempest gang

[kindred reef]

ok tempest and typhoon look great except for the giant ugly radiator in the front

[random trench]

They did their job

So fucking well

And I’m so proud of hawker for that

But also

Did you know that the P-51 wasn’t made for the Americans

[kindred reef]

yeah didnt the brits have a clipped wing version or something?

[random trench]

The brits helped develop it

Basically the idea was for the brits to acquire a bomber escort fighter

But nothing the Americans had would work

[kindred reef]

we also lend lease the p-38 to them

[random trench]

So the North American made the prototype P-51

But it had a shitty pratt and whitney engine

Which couldn’t produce the power

So what Britain did was they strapped a rolls-Royce Merlin to it and boom

The OG p-51 was born

The P-51D was the clipped wing, drop tank, 4 .50 cal monster of a fighter

[tough quail]

tank fucker 69 has logged in

pretty based of the soviets to just casually turn yak 9s into better CAS planes than the majority of dedicated aircraft in the west

[kindred reef]

why does that look like tiny bombs coming out of a yak

[tough quail]

because it is

[random trench]

The P-51D was exceedingly similar to the spitfire MkIX

When the spitfire got the gryphon engine however

It left the P-51 in the dust

[tough quail]

PTAB cassettes are fun for the whole family

[kindred reef]

i hate the clipped wing spitfire almost as much ugly as the firebrand

[random trench]

We don’t mention it

[kindred reef]

?

[tough quail]

[kindred reef]

what is that

[random trench]

This was the replacement for the spitfire

[tough quail]

a ptab, tiny HEAT anti-tank bomb

[random trench]

HEAT is cringe

APFSDS-T gang

[tough quail]

slightly less effective dropped from an aircraft

[random trench]

Vacuum bomb has entered chat

[tough quail]

[kindred reef]

little boy has entered chat

[random trench]

Geneva convention?

More like Geneva suggestion

[kindred reef]

it never actually outlawed nukes, and the nukes saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of U.S. and Soviet soldiers

[random trench]

We know this

Anyone who knows WW2 knows that

I would have preferred if the USSR collapsed much earlier

But alas

😭

[kindred reef]

well some people say we should have not dropped them

[maiden citrus]

some people also say the moon landing was fake

[kindred reef]

lmao

[random trench]

That’s a debate for another day

[kindred reef]

they are probably soviet trolls

[random trench]

Nukes are a thing and we can’t stop that

World War Two is fun and all

But ww1 history and pre-great war history is interesting too

1850-1900 is a really fucky time period

[maiden citrus]

agreed

1850-1920 is pretty overlooked in favor of slightly later

[kindred reef]

yeah i like the part where france lost in that time period

[tough quail]

the next couple rounds didnt really go so well

when the neighbors fuck around and need to find out

[random trench]

Von moltke my beloved 🥺

[kindred reef]

what is that gun lmao

[tough quail]

a chauchat

standard french LMG of ww1, replaced in 1925 by the FM 24/29

[random trench]

Notoriously bad gun

[tough quail]

notoriously bad by people with surface level knowledge, anyway

[random trench]

French infantry equipment is so fucking weird dawg

Like it’s weirder than soviet equipment

[tough quail]

and conflate it for the horrendously awful AeF rechamber in 30-06

[random trench]

And that’s saying something

[tough quail]

which is the worst thing since leukemia

[random trench]

The French are the worst thing since cancer

[tough quail]

sounds like loser speak to me

[maiden citrus]

french are pog

[tough quail]

but yeah the chauchat gets a really bad rap from the 30-06 rechamber which has the wonderful combination of being a

poorly done rush job, on an already fairly bare bone, war-expedient gun, to chamber it in a round hotter than the fucking sun

very not good combination

[random trench]

The French are just bad

Why does no one believe me

[tough quail]

because they read a book in their life

[maiden citrus]

because the french are my allies so I won't talk poorly about them in a serious manner

the british however

[tough quail]

im hoping i get to talk about how Fritz X is actually a french invention

[rugged jetty]

Also the Hispano cannon

[maiden citrus]

me using them messing with the fritz x stolen tech as an example for CA to not just copy siren bs

was a masterful moment I still think about

[tough quail]

lmfao

also true

hispanos are incredibly based

[random trench]

The French are the enemy and must be treated as such

Just ask the Germans

They know France like the back of their hand😋

[tough quail]

yeah, ask the country that invented world wars and ended Europe's reign as the largest power in the world

[maiden citrus]

the germany have only personally gave me one thing of value, admittedly it's very valuble

but france gave me freedom from the bri*tish and the statue of liberty, so that's at least two things

[random trench]

As a British/Chinese person living in Texas, I feel you

Fuck the British

[tough quail]

also tasty bread

[random trench]

Yes brioche is based

[hushed saffron]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich

[maiden citrus]

it also gave me richie

[hushed saffron]

....I wasn't expecting that.

[random trench]

Uh huh

The sandwich was invented by us

[eternal veldt]

Hawaii used to be called the Sandwich Islands

[tough quail]

and then i ate them

[eternal veldt]

What do you like on your sandwiches

or is this you

[tough quail]

yeah thats about right

[maiden citrus]

world of warships balance parameters

aka cheese and boloney

[eternal veldt]

World of warships now is just "could have" "might have been "it can be assumed that" flavours, sorry

I'm not letting them get away with the Colombian Wooster and Polish Mogador, sorry

[tough quail]

man i wanted to circlejerk some more

someone be my outlet for bitching about "universal machine guns" in ww2

[maiden citrus]

machine guns are cool but what about human guns

[tough quail]

is that just a guy throwing rocks really fast

[frigid karma]

It’s a gun shooting humans

[eternal veldt]

Reject MG

Return to catapults

[tough quail]

true

[eternal veldt]

Death by high velocity stoning

[random trench]

[tough quail]

u see we invented a medium machine gun we can take off the tripod and fire on the bipod

sure its an uncontrollable piece of shit when you do that that melts its barrel and blows up if you dont use specialty ammunition for it

but its universal

👁️

[remote monolith]

death by saying Jehovah one too many times

https://tenor.com/view/stoning-stone-monty-python-thot-life-of-brian-gif-12291021

[spiral cedar]

That's just a gun

[eternal veldt]

Stronger blunt trauma, maybe

[fierce sparrow]

Stoning...

[desert agate]

https://www.miragenews.com/makeover-for-wa-maritime-museums-iconic-922164/

[desert agate]

https://twitter.com/AWMemorial/status/1606869858163085316?t=RNGSkHuryzSuRvkMmtD99g&s=19

Aust War Memorial (@AWMemorial)

Eighty years ago today, one of the most iconic images of the war in the Pacific was captured by chance; George Silk’s photograph of a blinded Australian soldier being led by a barefoot Papuan on Christmas Day 1942. Read article: https://t.co/CIUarR5R4N

Twitter · Dec 25, 2022, 4:30 AM

[kindred reef]

bro

german fighters had a clock in them

thats dumb af

unnecessary

there was no reason to have it

they had a fuel gauge

but yet they had it anyways

[desert agate]

Almost all combat aircraft since the development of modern aeronautical instruments have included clocks

It's for far more than just monitoring fuel

Coordinating strikes on a target in coordination with artillery at a set time so you don't get blown up by your own sides shells for example

[spiral cedar]

[alpine onyx]

Yes, that naval gun video was such quality

Quality entertainment of course

[eternal veldt]

Could be worse, his AA video

[tough quail]

tea rolling up with niche Romanian rangefinders

[alpine onyx]

AA video is rock bottom, even Quora struggles to get that low

[maiden citrus]

the mark 1 eyeball was invented in romania in 1932 and can track an enemy aircraft at any speed out to a reasonable distance

[tough quail]

Is the implication here that Romanians didn't have eyes until 1932

Or that nobody did

[spiral cedar]

Prior to 1932 only the Mark 0 Photosensitive Tissue was employed on a wide scale, though after 1888 the Mark 0 Mod 3 had some of the precursor developments necessary for tracking moving objects

[maiden citrus]

post war romania moved on from such organic devices and began entering the cyberpunk timeline, employing the enhanced m3 binocular instead of the mere dated mark 1 eyeball

[frigid karma]

Romanians are all vampires and only use bat echolocation as sensory inputs, actually

They do not have eyes

[subtle prawn]

Care to explain what’s wrong with it?

[maiden citrus]

that's why it took them so long to evolve eyes, natural selection put pressure on them as plane speeds grew, making echolocation less effective

[tough quail]

is the mk2 just the mk1 with eyelids so you can squint

[maiden citrus]

that's a mod applied to most mark 1 eyeballs yes, with notable exception such as those on uss fish which are unmodernized

[frigid karma]

Mk2 eyeballs commonly known as four eyes are actually just retrofitted mark one eyeballs with a layer of glass over them

Interesting fact

[maiden citrus]

that's the m3

the m3 bifocal, it's a mod of the m3, m3 binocular

[tough quail]

god this is complicated

[maiden citrus]

the only difference is the distance to the eyeball on the cyborg

[alpine onyx]

The entire range of errors is in there. Starts with inconsistent standards when getting realistic RoF values (to the point where a clip fed weapon gets rated worse than a hand loaded one, because... ???), to the point where he literally makes up flaws.

[maiden citrus]

but since the inventions were close together, it resulted in a dispute and both sides claimed m3

[alpine onyx]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f5538f957b1151138f79488/t/5fecd937143c0d28f2a6a2d5/1609357623773/AA+Guns.pdf

This is his table that he used for his ratings

and it's loaded with double standards, misinformation and myths

[subtle prawn]

So what were the most egregious of errors there?

[alpine onyx]

• German 37mm M42 has only 60rpm, instead of the 140-160 that primary documents give
• he includes FCS talk for the USN 3in, but doesn't do it for other guns (most importantly for the IJN 100mm, for which he then pulls up praise of it being lightweight, which was in part due to it being behind most contemporary guns in that regard)
• he claims that the German 88mm was often used in double heavy caliber secondary batteries, you will find no ship to which this applies, he made that up
• he claims that the German 105mm mount breaks all the time, which not only is not backed by any of the sources he listed (plus the number of sources and primary documents I went through), he fails to think far enough to realize that the 88mm gun on the light cruisers had the same mount. And he did not try to make that point there.
• he only selectively includes on-mount stabilization, and disregards it even on some prominent examples

His general reliability talk is very much inconsistent, he rides on alledged reliability issues of some weapons like a mad man, and will happily turn a blind eye to others

[maiden citrus]

the reliability of the chicago piano is another example I see on the chart as mythological, the vibration issue was fixed pre war, and it had an off mount director

he repeats one and doesn't mention two even though it's a big plus for its period

[alpine onyx]

I am not too versed on stuff outside Germany, there's more on that chart for which I don't have the citations to back it up when pressed

[maiden citrus]

the 5.25'' was quite a meme in the video for sure

[alpine onyx]

phoenix mentioned that the Italian 90mm gun is also getting misrepresented

[subtle prawn]

So what did he say about the Italian 90mm gun?

https://twitter.com/mahmouedgamal44/status/1606551797723795456

Mahmoud Gamal (@mahmouedgamal44)

.@skynewsarabia reported that the White House has approved the sale/transfer of U.S.-made Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) To the Egyptian Navy, without providing further details, whether those LCSs will be from Fredoom-class or Independence-class.

https://t.co/06Fr3YOQY3

Likes

254

Twitter · Dec 24, 2022, 7:26 AM

[alpine onyx]

Reliability talk of course, and the practical RoF being way too low

[shrewd pecan]

just because you don't think there's a reason to include something in a piece of military equipment doesn't mean there isn't a reason to include it

[alpine onyx]

How heavy would a clock even be back then? Half a kilo?

Can imagine worse things to spend that on

[spiral cedar]

You mean, 10 nautical miles of range for an A6M2

[shrewd pecan]

timing is one of the most key things regarding air missions

[spiral cedar]

Shinano would have had 20” primaries and 18” secondaries

[shrewd pecan]

one single mounted 20 incher

2 triple 18 inch mounts

[maiden citrus]

it's true, the m1 was made by a 1 year old male

[shrewd pecan]

you ever just

think of something incredibly stupid and figure out someone has actually done it

[spiral cedar]

Whoa there, Colorado with 30” of belt pen at 20k yards that’s a new one

[maiden citrus]

colorado but it's Parallel Superimposition and my turn on the dream machine

[mystic wadi]

MURICA!

[mystic wadi]

quick someone needs to get this info the WG and fix the US BB line.

[spiral cedar]

Please don't, they might actually believe it

[maiden citrus]

history under clubs again it seems

[spiral cedar]

So it seems

[maiden citrus]

wondering if permissions are messed up in general too, for various reasons

[eternal veldt]

We need to be isolated

[wary chasm]

I recently read Yamato's record and like........damn. For such a great ship she is she kinda.........didnt do as much as I thought she would

[alpine onyx]

We are the cool kids club

[spiral cedar]

The fate of many ships in war

[wary chasm]

unfortunately

[alpine onyx]

Most IJN BBs spent a lot of their time doing little, minus the Kongous, those were deemed expendable

[wary chasm]

thought she would go guns blazing like my beloved biscuit but no

well, at least she was cool, I guess that counts

[alpine onyx]

Aw man, I gotta mute all channels again

[maiden citrus]

yeah have to mute many things, I can see every club for some reason

weird change

[alpine onyx]

Yamato did kinda go guns blazing, and left the stage with a big boom

Just not the way she was built for

[spiral cedar]

But battleships aren’t workhorses, they are naval power made manifest.

They can accomplish their job merely by showing up and forcing the enemy to cancel their mission, causing them to abandon a landing force to transport or whatnot.

In WWI, the battleships of the Grand Fleet and High Seas Fleet only engaged one another directly in one battle (Jutland), but the battleships were nevertheless integral to naval strategy—by keeping the German capital ships bottled up, the Grand Fleet kept the many small ASW vessels safe from German guns, so that they could keep the U-boat threat at bay.

So even if their battle records are not flashy, battleships can nevertheless do their jobs, and play important parts in a war.

[alpine onyx]

Be Tirpitz, sortie once a month, British panic, Soviets claim to have sunk you, go back to port, get bombed again

[wary chasm]

well, its the Queen of the North we're talking about

[wary chasm]

True, that is very true

[spiral cedar]

The chemical smoke used to shield Tirpitz from air attack have caused chemical damage to the rings in Norwegian trees that persist to this day (and can be measured from tree rings)

[wary chasm]

Really? I didnt know that at all

[alpine onyx]

Mhm

[spiral cedar]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-find-evidence-germanys-world-war-ii-battleship-norwegian-trees-180968772/

[alpine onyx]

Guess the Germans tried to turn the ugly sisters into workhorses, in lack of workhorses themselves

[wary chasm]

I'll have to give that a read later then, how interesting

[manic latch]

It's worse

[maiden citrus]

ah there you are, I didn't get to say you could have extra cookies

[manic latch]

will give those extra cookies to Soyuz

[maiden citrus]

were you not the man in red in my house a little bit ago

[manic latch]

One and only

[maiden citrus]

🎅

[manic latch]

Oh that red

[desert agate]

need a full list of all the dumb shit he says in those videos

[spiral cedar]

That would take a whole separate YouTube channel

[desert agate]

or a really long google doc

[spiral cedar]

Bah, no one in ALO would ever make something like that

[alpine onyx]

Just collect the most memorable stuff

[desert agate]

yeah true

[alpine onyx]

County class has better armor than a Hipper

[desert agate]

wait a second

why is #history a club again

[spiral cedar]

Mods needed something to do

[desert agate]

what have i missed in the last week

[alpine onyx]

At least they didn't ban Sang

[desert agate]

[maiden citrus]

server seems to have been restructured to where you can pick and choose any channel like a club

[fierce sparrow]

ehh? What's going on here

[maiden citrus]

the 5.25'' was the best aa gun of the war because it range big

[manic latch]

Should have used me in WW2

My love has unlimited range

And ammo

[alpine onyx]

German fire control cables in superstructure bad, because 406mm shell from 10km cut them

[maiden citrus]

didn't pretty much everyone have them

[alpine onyx]

Shhhh

Shut up with those weird questions

Or else you might ruin one of the main circlejerk points

[spiral cedar]

What was his response when questioned on this btw

[alpine onyx]

That was his response

The question was if he could elaborate on the fire control cable stuff

And from Bisko getting her cables to the director on the foretop cut by that hit from Rodney that smashed the entire everything around the bridge he extrapolated that the cables must've been more vulnerable than on other ships

He didn't really bother to actually dig up the arrangements of cables and the protection of them from various ships to make a proper comparison

Granted, that's very specific information that's hard to come by, but could at least be honest about it and say that you do not know

[spiral cedar]

Mm, that seems to be a recurring issue

It's fine to not know something, but not to fail to make clear where your knowledge ends and where your speculation begins

[thorn trail]

Anyone here well versed in Aztec or Mayan Mythology?

[lapis wraith]

sorry never studied them

im not that much into mythology

[eternal veldt]

The funny thing is that the Shinanos are technically more streamlined Yamatos

15.5cm mounts begone, belt thinned down from 410 to 400 IIRC

[spiral cedar]

Probably @maiden citrus

[maiden citrus]

I am somewhat

[thorn trail]

Is there anyone who's like the Tiamat of Aztec Mythology (Earth mother who went to war against her own sons and daughters after they rebelled against her)

[maiden citrus]

I believe that would be similar to Tlaltechutli

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlaltecuhtli

One day, the gods Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca descended from the heavens in the form of serpents and found the monstrous Tlaltecuhtli (Cipactli) sitting on top of the ocean with giant fangs, crocodile skin, and gnashing teeth calling for flesh to feast on. The two gods decided that the fifth cosmos could not prosper with such a horrible creature roaming the world, and so they set out to destroy her. To attract her, Tezcatlipoca used his foot as bait, and Tlaltecuhtli ate it. In the fight that followed, Tezcatlipoca lost his foot and Tlaltecuhtli lost her lower jaw, taking away her ability to sink below the surface of the water. After a long struggle, Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcoatl managed to rip her body in two — from the upper half came the sky, and from the lower came the earth

[thorn trail]

Ooo interesting

Who is Camazotz?

[maiden citrus]

a bat related spirit who serves the underworld

[thorn trail]

How important is he in aztec mythology?

[maiden citrus]

well, Camazotz is Mayan as I recall, and rarely appears anyway in stories

[thorn trail]

Ah okay okay. In the stories he does appear in, what does he usually do?

[maiden citrus]

well one did tear off someone's head to use it as a ball for the god's next ballgame, it's also plural, basically how we think of demons in hell is what Camazotz is, so they are more used as symbolism than actual story relevance

[thorn trail]

Ah

[maiden citrus]

that's the only story I know it appears in

[thorn trail]

@maiden citrus is there anything related in mayan or aztec mythology regarding "nine layers" or smth

[maiden citrus]

yes, the Aztec underworld has 9 layers

[thorn trail]

Why does it have 9 layers? (Sorry if I'm asking too many questions and disturbing you. I'm really interested in Aztec/Mayan Myth right now as FGO's latest chapter is loosely based on those two)

[maiden citrus]

as soon as you asked the timat question I figured, hehe

and it's just how the underworld formed based on the shape and age of the universe supposedly, kinda like the world tree in norse

[thorn trail]

I asked the Tiamat question because Kingprotea has an alter version in Lostbelt 7, and since Kingprotea is made up of earth goddesses I was wondering if the Aztec had a contemporary

[thorn trail]

Oooo

[maiden citrus]

Tlaltecuhtli did survive that encounter too, so technically even still alive

[thorn trail]

Oh ok. Does the Aztec underworld have a hades equivalent?

[maiden citrus]

yup, the king of hell Mictlantecuhtli

who has quite the striking appearence too

[thorn trail]

In a scale of good to evil, how is he?

[thorn trail]

What does he look like?

[maiden citrus]

he's a little less good and reasonable than hades would be for example, as he's somewhat reasonable but also fickle, can be reasoned with though

[thorn trail]

Does Aztec myth have a female hero?

Like in Aztec or Mayan myth is there like ala female version of Herc or smth?

[maiden citrus]

he's a skeleton covered in blood with a skull containing eyeballs only

sometimes depicted as having a body but still 'wearing' a skull

[thorn trail]

Huh

[maiden citrus]

yeah most depictions of him in media are freaky as a result

personally like onyx equinox' general depictions of this mythology

[thorn trail]

@maiden citrus Who's Kulkulkan?

[maiden citrus]

ironically you could kinda consider Mictlantecuhtli's wife Mictecacihuati to be one somewhat, as she is the god of the death who was sacrificed as an infant to gain these powers, she rules over the bones of the dead who died of natural causes, and protects them

I'm not aware of any exact heroes though but I'm also not an expert, and to be blunt a lot of hero stories (outside those of the gods) did not survive

[maiden citrus]

the serpent diety, comparable to those like quetz, but older than that in stories

[thorn trail]

Oh god...

[thorn trail]

what ships are these?

[spiral cedar]

That image feels like it needs a Jpop song playing over it

[eternal veldt]

Make a guess.

[thorn trail]

I got nothin

[spiral cedar]

whoever could it be

[eternal veldt]

Hood in the background, Repulse in the foreground.

[spiral cedar]

I wonder

[thorn trail]

What's the context of these 2 pics?

Was this during the world tour of Hood?

[desert agate]

pretty likely given that they both participated and Repulse is pre-reconstruction

[eternal veldt]

Repulse actually likely received her reconstruction already

You can see the HACS Mk I near the top left

Likely taken post December 1933, no catapults in sight on Hood

[desert agate]

oh shit

you right

i was looking at the triple 4in mounts

[eternal veldt]

Given Repulse's lengthy refit from 1933-1936, picture must be taken later than May 1936

[thorn trail]

Repulse had a refit?

Yostar Repulse retrofit when

[eternal veldt]

Most WW1 capital ships in the RN received substantial refits between 1920-1939

The Revenges are supposed to be next in line, then came the war and they're told to go fuck themselves because all docks are busy

and the most modern of them all, Royal Oak, got torpedoed with heavy casualties in the opening year

Repulse at one point had something funky going on though, let's see if anyone can spot it

[delicate beacon]

Did this become a club again?

Help, now this channel is distanced from #al-lore

[ivory ridge]

[thorn trail]

Don't see it. What happened?

[eternal veldt]

Prototype twin 4.5" centre right.

[manic latch]

Death to Samurai

[thorn trail]

are these the roomba AA in the game

[eternal veldt]

Yes.

[manic latch]

https://youtu.be/qxlVJ9-ZdJY

[manic latch]

Rich 7th question is about French navy

[thorn trail]

@maiden citrus Who's Tezcatlipoca?

[delicate beacon]

He's trying to shit on the French the first two questions already

[maiden citrus]

brother of quetz

[thorn trail]

Is he always angry or something?

any of his stories tell of him being a warmonger or angry dude or smth?

[maiden citrus]

hm, not in particular, though the two did squabble in the past, he teamed up with quetz in the story above to battle the earth goddess I posted about

[thorn trail]

oh. so he's not crazy then

huh

[maiden citrus]

most Aztec dieties are neither wholly good nor evil

[thorn trail]

oh ok then

[maiden citrus]

he does look pretty cool though, has a fake foot since he lost his in battle and often has a magic mirror on his attire (often on the chest like an arc reactor), is referred to as a sorcerer and smoke would come from him like a locomotive (sometimes from the mirror he wore)

some say the mirror let him see everything

to show how he was neither good nor evil, he was the one that introduced and most enjoyed human sacrifice, but he also protected slaves, and if slaves were treated poorly he would cast magic on their masters to cause sickness

[remote monolith]

I'm gonna take a gander and guess you're currently on LB7 of FGO

[thorn trail]

I'm reading thru the story rn yes

[maiden citrus]

yeah I guessed it too based on one of the questions lol

good luck

[thorn trail]

I did say that way before that the reason I'm trying to learn because of FGO

[maiden citrus]

only fgo I watched was the one with quetz in it

[remote monolith]

figures kekw

Tez is a major player on LB7

[thorn trail]

Grand Berserker

I'm still confused how he's grand berserker

[maiden citrus]

he is rooting for you

I mean he did destroy the world once, must count for something, and is a patron of warriors

he likes to sit at crossroads at night and challenge traveling warriors

[remote monolith]

btw Tlaloc, Kukulkan and Camazotz are in the LB too

[thorn trail]

Oh he's the patron of warriors and challenges warriors? Make sense now that he's a berserker

[remote monolith]

and oh boy Kukulkan

[maiden citrus]

I'm not super versed on fate myself, but I knew this event was coming

[thorn trail]

Why does she look like a more adult Medea

her face reminds me of Medea so much

[spiral cedar]

Ah yes, a very on-topic answer

15 second reload time

[maiden citrus]

edit: I forgot to address the topic

8rpm bb guns

[spiral cedar]

Answer to same question

What is reading

Less than 200 lb filler, too weak to even destroy the shell

[maiden citrus]

for reference, a stick of dynamite is roughly 0.4 pounds

yeah what's 500 sticks of dynamite going mach 2 going to accomplish

[thorn trail]

200 pounds is a lot of power

even against like multiple inches of steel

[spiral cedar]

Did you know that if you have an electrical circuit fire all your guns at once, all your shells will also land at about the same time

[thorn trail]

wouldn't this be like shit for aiming or something?

[maiden citrus]

we could even call it a control of firing system, or fire control for short

[spiral cedar]

Not really, it’s standard practice

[thorn trail]

Ah wait yeah

but also don't BBs even in Dreadnoughts time did this?

Like full broadsides

[spiral cedar]

Yup

These are all dumb Quora answers

[thorn trail]

I specifically remember something related to even pre-dreadnoughts doing this

[spiral cedar]

The South Dakota would have outclassed Nelson. Faster, and better fire control. With similar firing ranges, the Nelson wouldn’t have been able to get close enough to fire at South Dakota, since SD could turn away and outrun the distance of the Nelson’s shells. While the Nelson would have been running into SD, basically extending the firing range of the SD. This would have been an issue with Nelson against the NC as well.

Ah yes, ‘outrunning’ 16 inch shells

Nagato might have been a good fight, but I think the Nelson would have had a good chance against her. Both were built around the same time and had the same technology. Nelson, however, had a longer effective firing range. Nagato’s slight speed advantage may have given Nelson some problems and probably would have made up for the range difference. Remember, Nagato is why the Iowa class was built, and Nelson would not have done well against an Iowa.

Being faster than Colorado, it could pick when and where, but it would have to be firing at max range. It was not fast enough to move in closer, fire, and then get out fast (it was only 2 knots faster than Colorado). That being said, it could employ the same tactics that an SD or NC would use against the Nelson. Against Nagato, the exact same situation was reversed.

The South Dakota and North Carolina were both 5 knots faster than Nelson and that makes a difference. They could jump in closer, fire, and get out faster. They could also just sail away from Nelson, near her max range, and constantly out run the shells.

[eternal veldt]

"outrun shells"

[maiden citrus]

yes this is how ships fight

[eternal veldt]

South Dakota travelling at 2,600 fps

[maiden citrus]

deja vue

[eternal veldt]

ram into Nelson and just slices her in half

[dusty kraken]

I AM the shell

[thorn trail]

What was the largest shell ever used on a dreadnought?

[spiral cedar]

Yamato’s 46cm Type 91/1 APC

I assume size here means diameter

[thorn trail]

weight

[spiral cedar]

Still Yamato’s 46cm Type 91/1 APC, though if you count HMS Furious as a ‘Dreadnought’ for some reason then she has heavier shells

[thorn trail]

wait HMS Furious's 18in shells were heavier than Yamato's?

[spiral cedar]

Yes

[thorn trail]

How much heavier?

[spiral cedar]

About 100 lbs heavier

So about 3%

[thorn trail]

Why did Furious even have such big guns for a small ship

[spiral cedar]

Fisher

[thorn trail]

ah of course it had to be Fisher

[spiral cedar]

He figured bigger guns have better ballistic properties, giving them greater effective range that would allow them to disable enemy warships from outside their effective range

[thorn trail]

But that involved having ships that have basically paper for armor?

[spiral cedar]

Well, that part was political

They were wartime designs and due to the long lead time of capital ships, he was not authorized to build any more during wartime besides the stuff already started

So he had to sneak them under the radar by calling them "Large Light Cruisers"

This limited their armor and tonnage

Armor of capital ship thickness has to be specially ordered so ordering thick armor would have gave away the game

[thorn trail]

Also something had to do with the Baltic project?

[spiral cedar]

As for guns, he just illegally bypassed the necessary authorities

The shallow draft of the Courageous class would have made them ideal picks for the Baltic Project, yes, though Fisher was more interested in the draft minimization out of a probably misguided belief that shallow draft minimized resistance and thus increased speed

The Baltic Project was only one justification for the ships. Admiral Fisher wrote in a letter to the DNC on 16 March 1915: "I've told the First Lord that the more that I consider the qualities of your design of the Big Light Battle Cruisers, the more that I am impressed by its exceeding excellence and simplicity—all the three vital requisites of gunpower, speed and draught so well balanced!"[2] In fact they could be considered the epitome of Fisher's belief in the paramount importance of speed over everything else. Fisher's adherence to this principle is highlighted in a letter he wrote to Churchill concerning the battleships of the 1912–13 Naval Estimates. In the letter, dated April 1912, Fisher stated: "There must be sacrifice of armour ... There must be further VERY GREAT INCREASE IN SPEED ... your speed must vastly exceed [that of] your possible enemy!"[3]

[manic latch]

He wouldn't build them if he was allowed to build better things

[thorn trail]

From what I hear about Fisher, if he was alive around the time of Guided missiles he would have probably pushed for a BB sized arsenal ship

[manic latch]

It's unknown what their exact use would be. Could be support vessels for their firepower, very big monitors (Furious only have 2 guns), or dunno smh to fight with Pre dreads of Germans

[spiral cedar]

Probably SSBNs tbh

[thorn trail]

Would Fisher be more willing to do the funni than LeMay of SAC?

[spiral cedar]

Who knows

Then again

And then in my remarks I went on to observe, as is stated by Mr. Norman Angell in the "Great Illusion," where he holds me up as a Terror! and as misguided - perhaps I went a little too far when I said I would boil the prisoners in oil and murder the innocent in cold blood, &c., &c., &c....```

[tough quail]

the courageous class makes more sense when you read into their actual purpose

they're not really built like or intended to be real surface combatants

they're just monitors that can sprint

main draw iirc so they don't get mulched by submarines or other intercepting warships while leisurely shelling the coast

[fervent wyvern]

heh

[manic latch]

Supercarrier

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C540_c738GI

[manic latch]

Albany

[tribal mortar]

History club, merry Christmas

if I do remember, WWI there was an unoffical truce because of Christmas and exaustion

I hope im not wrong on that info

[remote monolith]

it did happen yes, but limited to 1914

subsequent years would see much more intense fighting along the front and thus much reduced Goodwill between the two sides, in addition to command actively preventing such incidents to prevent treason

[thorn trail]

Where chonky CFTs

[spring briar]

[ivory ridge]

This year's Warship includes features on the secret battleship design that Mussolini's Fascist Italy sold to Stalin's USSR, the little-known German flak ships of World War II, the French aircraft carriers Clemenceau and Foch, and the development of electronic warfare in the Royal Navy.

Warships 2023

pretty hype

[manic latch]

ITALY SOVIET FREN YEEEEEEEWEES

Marco Polo time

[thorn trail]

Why did US ships have a more flatter shape to their BBs compared to the other nations that have more concave looking ships

[manic latch]

Welp

Turks actually finished Prototype of MMU

[ivory ridge]

Turkiye stronk 💪 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇳 💪 🪳

[gentle viper]

day 1 of posting Undeappreciated Cold war vehicles, Super M60 Patton

[delicate beacon]

best tank

also, found some new stuff in passing on Dutch tanks.

Amongst it the LTH-1

And a potentially tankified M39

As well as Russian spoils of war from Finland

[eternal veldt]

Oi, horse

@tough quail

Not the final, it would seem

[tough quail]

that sure is a secondary battery

[maiden citrus]

at least for now

[eternal veldt]

There we go

thanks to sarcasticat on the WoWS server

[maiden citrus]

much better

[eternal veldt]

Coom

[tight bridge]

Got a new book to read for Christmas

[sullen canyon]

Isn't that the ship that got lost a lot or something? Or am I thinking of an inside joke from KanColle for that?

[eternal veldt]

Canned Coal joke

Gambier Bay is the carrier that got fired upon by the Centre Force at Samar

I am curious of the damage assessment, since Yamato likely fired on her

And we know a near miss on White Plains basically knocked out her electricity grid and shook the whole ship

[tight bridge]

She was a Casablanca-class that had the dubious achievement of being the only US aircraft carrier sunk by surface gunfire during the war

[eternal veldt]

Ah, after action reports only suggest Yamato fired on White Plains, never mind then.

[ornate wind]

Is this channel for pure history or is history in the context of the game okay too?

[shrewd pecan]

channel has a rather wide reach of what's discussed here

tho if its game related it probably goes in #al-lore unless its discussing the historical nature of the ships or comparing the ingame events to IRL ones

[ornate wind]

Ah, I was just wondering if USS Midway releases, would it be a stretch to reference its 1950s angled flight deck?

[frigid karma]

Not really

We haven’t had a split deck Cv config yet

[desert agate]

after this shitfest of an event anything is possible

[eternal veldt]

Essex already references her SCB-27A refit when she says "When we'll get jets"

Yorktown II is in the sus zone, may or may not have received SCB-27A already

This year is overall a shitshow for AL in terms of historical consistency if you ask me, but I digress

[frigid karma]

Indeed, but vg and this event were both serious earners

So expect more

[ornate wind]

Wait what parts were inconsistent?

Well, besides the kriegsmarine events

… and the Soviet event…

Okay yeah

Kinda cringe

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

And Chinese DDGs

Lol, lmao

[ornate wind]

Oh yeah lmao

Weren’t those like

[eternal veldt]

Ships in AL usually stick to two criteria:

Serves in WW2
Planned to be built in WW2
Keel laid down in WW2

This year, we had
-2 Chinese DDGs with 60s tech
-"II" namesakes

• A fucking 40 gun pirate frigate of the 1700s

[ornate wind]

70s tech

[frigid karma]

Look it’s a fucking Chinese gacha game

I’m not very uptight about it

If they wanna add crazy shit I’m all for it

[ornate wind]

I’m fine with the “II”s tbh

[eternal veldt]

But yes, as hit said, anything is possible

And I'm not going to have the II argument over here, we have enougu meltdowns elsewhere

[ornate wind]

What’s this II argument?

[eternal veldt]

As things stand, Yorktown II is either in her WW2 configuration, or 1950 SCB-27A configuration (which may justify UR), take your pick

[ornate wind]

Ah right, when I saw her initially that extra bit of rigging almost looks like the second flight deck

[eternal veldt]

No, that's perfectly fine and in line with an Essex class flight deck

or rather, "design liberties"

This, however...

[desert agate]

Mfw on take-off to attack Japanese mainland positions I hit a random piece of steel sticking out the end of the flight deck

[eternal veldt]

... is perfectly in line with SCB-27A modernizations that eliminated the "Long Hull" and "Short Hull Essex" differences by elongating the bow into a clipper form

[ornate wind]

I swear this looks like an angled flight deck

[eternal veldt]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/USS_Hornet_(CV-12)_damaged_flight_deck_1945.jpg either that or Manjoob somehow confused in the process and I'm just delusional

[eternal veldt]

Looks more like a design element, the angled flight deck of the Essexs are very subdued

[desert agate]

A lot of conversions and early angled decks were

Melbourne

[eternal veldt]

A deck edge elevator also sits right in front of the angled flight deck, so it's a hard no for me

and, it's unmodified in Yorktown's CG, so SCB-125 is not yet applied

[ornate wind]

I always thought that the SCB-125 flight deck seemed somewhat ‘detached’ from the main ship

Unlike later deck layouts with the angled deck laid in to the design and placed closer to the fore

Hence my initial impression that it was the SCB-125 deck

[eternal veldt]

See the heavy grid lines near the front? That's the deck edge elevator.

[ornate wind]

Tbf, I don’t think we have any other depiction of a deck edge elevator present afaik

Weren’t those only a thing after the war?

[eternal veldt]

while I originally thought that this stubbed bit was the angled flight deck, it simply isn't, it's on the Essexs their entire life

No, USS Wasp CV-7 had the deck edge elevator, and arguably one of the most successful things the USN did with what's left of their carrier tonnage in the LNT.

[ornate wind]

Oh right

Dang how’d I forget

[eternal veldt]

It's why the Essexs immediately used it, and with great success

[eternal veldt]

This here is clearly trying to portray a deck edge elevator, half arsed as it is

and of course Hornet II doesn't have it

reeee

[ornate wind]

Ah you’re right, there’s also the lack of catapults

[ornate wind]

Bro I swear, none of the Essex class have the depiction in game

[eternal veldt]

I just told you Yorktown II has it

[ornate wind]

Except her

[eternal veldt]

Intrepid gets the "There was an attempt" star

[ornate wind]

Uhhh are you talking about the little protrusions?

There’s like a full sized elevator right there

[eternal veldt]

thus "there was an attempt"

[ornate wind]

I now see why I completely forgot about the deck edge elevators

Sadge

[eternal veldt]

In general AL's rigging is...not that good in terms of accuracy

Better than some other competitors out there, at least

cough Victory Belles cough

[ornate wind]

I mean I can generally tell what it’s trying to do ig

Sometimes I wish there was more superstructure representation

Although a lot of Royal Navy battleship superstructure looks pretty terrible imo

[eternal veldt]

Oi

Do not diss the Queen Anne's Mansions

[maiden citrus]

there is an example of good looking british bb, don't worry

[eternal veldt]

Inb4 Revenge

[maiden citrus]

yis

[eternal veldt]

cool and good response

British tripods are 👌

[ornate wind]

Alright but no one wants to see a block

[eternal veldt]

Blocks worked fine with their overhanging platforms

I just have issue with Vanguard's block

[ornate wind]

Monarch’s rigging is great

[ornate wind]

Exactly

[eternal veldt]

QE and Renown are good though

[ornate wind]

I don’t really like the KGV superstructure

[eternal veldt]

The real RN moment is leaving the entire compass bridge out in the open, exposed to the elements

Because "muh night battle visibility"

[ornate wind]

I had to search that up

Goddamn

Surely they had one inside the bridge no?

[eternal veldt]

Admiral's bridge is below, I'm afraid

[ornate wind]

Well I guess I can see why the Royal Navy wanted it there

[jovial elm]

Just read a real life story of a British phantom testing out the skyflash missile where the missile did a 180degree turn and locked onto the phantoms radar illuminator...

Yeah, basically it didn't have a warhead so once it passed under it's target it flew near vertically until it lost all energy then proceeded to dive back down again where it regained lock.onto the phantom that launched it

[eternal veldt]

Royal Navy Phantoms, eh?

Will never not be funny

[ivory ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/684721152739770371/1056894943085477948/libya4.jpg

no clue how these things are still running

[jovial elm]

I would say those are the REALLY late ones judging by the engine housing

[jovial elm]

Sorry, should have stated that this was in the really early days of the skyflash testing

[eternal veldt]

Dear god, another shit meme

[maiden citrus]

a continuous trainwreck

[eternal veldt]

Sure, let's just disregard VB-3's effort at Midway

[spiral cedar]

What light carrier tf

[eternal veldt]

Wasp, smh

Just magically teleport her from the fucking Atlantic to Pearl

[spiral cedar]

Not even Wasp

[eternal veldt]

Or R*nger, god forbid

[maiden citrus]

time for some teaching

[junior trench]

bread

[fierce sparrow]

Food...

[eternal veldt]

@spring briar off to bad start

talk about Montana class, shows pic of Tirpitz leaving the Fjords

and then gaze upon this 🤡

third pic and it's this already, jesus

help

How do you want me to take this fucking seriously

[remote monolith]

TIL that the military March often used for Godzilla movies was legitimately a March intended for the IJN to use, only Akira Ifukube didn't get to submit it before the war ended

[eternal veldt]

no no no no no

[remote monolith]

same goes for a lot of people that worked on Godzilla, most were employed by the IJA/IJN in some capacities

one of them even ran a brothel in Manchuria for the Army

wasn't exactly proud of it though

[eternal veldt]

Why yes, just write off the whole prolonged discussion of KGV's gunnery, from 14-16" guns, from considering obliging the LNT, to the laughable reason of "excellent service of the RN" and boil it down to just "bad decisions"

Almost close to a badly copy-pasted paragraph from Garzke and Dulin's H-class section, possibly with even worse collocation

and here we go, just copy-pasted wrong values, no values over the uniform 120mm turtleback even too.

Right, of course, just simply rule the A-150s as unable to be built because of poor Japanese industry capacity, rather than intentional halting of Shinano at 50% due to prioritisation of resources to ships that can be thrown into the gauntlet in 6 months, and following the disastrous results of Midway

[spring briar]

Those illustrations

Why is everything so fat

[eternal veldt]

Soyuz is based on VV 🤦

It's based on the 1935 version of Ansaldo UP.41, Successor of VV, not VV herself

and if those "Soviet elements" are meant to be the 180mm Secbat guns, the Soviets themselves never wanted to use them in the first place

[ivory ridge]

I mean to be fair

That's not what he said

He said "the design provided by the italians was based on the VV"

Not the soyuz

He's saying UP41 is based on the VVs

[eternal veldt]

That's fine then, "Soviet elements" just doesn't seem quite right, or at least, requires elaboration

no reasons provided for the thinning of the belt, of course

Nor the reason for halting Belorussiya was provided

hahahaha, I'm sure someone here will disagree

[spring briar]

Poor pr.24

Forgotten

[eternal veldt]

Okay

Now the spicy part comes

[spring briar]

H-44?

[eternal veldt]

"German guns were noted for their accuracy"

Gotta need some sources here, buddy, running quite dry

[spring briar]

Also the assumption that they would not even try for radar FC on H-39

[eternal veldt]

Especially since Bismarck needed corrections from the gunnery officer, and required 5 salvos to hit Hood - which by RN standards - is just perfectly mediocre

There's the tomfuckery at Barents' Sea from Luetzow as well, but I think that's under dispute, so I'll leave that be

[ivory ridge]

The H-39 possessed excellent firepower

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

"WEAK HORIZONTAL PROTECTION"

MR. STILLE, IT'S FUCKING 150MM + 50MM DECK ON SOYUZ

[spring briar]

[eternal veldt]

Oh, it's over

I'm guessing these are the sources, what a shitshow

[spring briar]

Shortest book

[eternal veldt]

It's literally fucking poor man's Garze and Dulin's Axis BBs

with even less detail than wikipedia

[spring briar]

Well for 10 dollars

Literally one of those science books for children

With 20 pages

[eternal veldt]

That analysis part is pretty dangerous

You know what, let's throw this fanfiction in as well

[spring briar]

Also can I just uhhh

[eternal veldt]

This is the kind of shit I'm writing when I was an edgy teenager 10 years ago, shit you not, just with less detail

[spring briar]

Wtf is thiiiiiis

[maiden citrus]

artist credit, me

I have made the ships chonkier on purpose

[spring briar]

🌭

You made the ships so chonky their barbettes are clipping through one another

[eternal veldt]

and this just shows a complete misunderstanding of the Matsu class DDs

Matsus are convoy escorts, not a BB escort vessel

You want someone to escort A-150, you're calling up people like Yukikaze, Hatsushimo (Type A Long Lancers) or Suzutsuki and Fuyutsuki (Type B AA ships)

not Type D Matsus

[maiden citrus]

hey colorado does have good firepower

oh, in comparison to

montana

oh

[spring briar]

Super shimakazes surely

[eternal veldt]

Shimas got canned for more ducks

[maiden citrus]

the turrets are now spring loaded

[eternal veldt]

But man, what a take

"H-39 is better than Lion"

Did Berci sponsor this book?

No mention of the 1945 Lion proposals either, it stops dead after the 1938 Lion discussions

[manic latch]

Whole book feels like bad wiki article

[eternal veldt]

Worse than Wiki

It's for the very very basic layman, maybe with a side of wehrbs

The Yamato gensis article literally has better quaity than the entire A-150 section

[manic latch]

He could have complained about Soyuz's 425mm Barbette which is very low compared to others but noooo

[eternal veldt]

Embarrassing

Alsace already has a very good book on it

you know what's it called?

French Battleships 1922-1956

[spring briar]

writes book about Super Battleships
includes Soyuz and Lion
does not talk about the A-150 design lineage
mentions the fucking matsu class

[eternal veldt]

Jordan would take a 380mm APC shell and shove it up Stille's ass

actual quality research

[spring briar]

Btw I should show what I got for christmas

trying not to scream

[eternal veldt]

tumblehome

I got something for Christmas too

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

Family