the shell was too heavy and expensive though so they hired french engineers to design 331.7 kg AP instead
#history
spring briar
Ok so I'm now at about 30 different projectiles for various russian and soviet 12" guns
@manic latch
spring briar
there's the melinite filled ones made in France
the ones made in the US
there are wrought iron shells
cast iron shells
steel shells
hardened iron shells
kind summit
Does anyone has a layout of an american Elco 80 ft torpedo boat?
tough quail
sweet CHRIST my EYES
i mean its at least like
slightly better looking than something like long beach
but fuck me
spring briar
ok bend over
tough quail
spiral cedar
Click the pdf link
celest fractal
Can people from other countries join the USN?
spring briar
Can people from other countries join the USN?
Be a U.S. citizen; or Legal Permanent Resident (Enlisted) Be between the ages of 17 and 39 to enlist or be between 19 and 42 to become an Officer* Have a high school diploma or GED equivalent (Enlisted) or have a four-year degree from an accredited university (Officer)
celest fractal
So I need to finish College and apply for a green card. Then i’m all ready?
humble mulch
Finish college, apply for green card or get married to an American citizen
spring briar
humble mulch
Think those are the 2 routes?
celest fractal
do you live in the US
Unfortunately no, I’m in PH
manic latch
humble mulch
Personally I'd suggest contacting your local US embassy on what the process is and what you should be doing
Cause like this is a discord lmao
manic latch
I think you can't reach important levels in military if you weren't born in US
humble mulch
Yeah there's a whole lot to it
manic latch
Officer is max as foreigner right
manic latch
kind summit
Yeah thanks
junior trench
I think you can't reach important levels in military if you weren't born in US
that's certainly news to me
kind summit
Yeah thanks
Its higgins tho sadly, I need elco
manic latch
that's certainly news to me
Wait. You need to be US citizen as rule.
So if you go through Naturalization. It should be possible right?
Not just birth only
humble mulch
Yeah
So if you get a permanent Visa?, green card, or married to an American you should be fine
But I’m not, and no one else here, is an immigration lawyer or military recruiter who can answer this question with more certainty
thorny plaza
Somome shell it please
cold pumice
what tank chasis has been used for "truck"https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717498714259980378/1024091887914729562/20220926_195702.jpg
thorny plaza
Wtf
unborn wyvern
what tank chasis has been used for "truck"https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments...
M4 sherman
subtle prawn
frigid karma
why did sniper garands not see as much use as sniper springfields in ww2?
having garands around would certainly simplify logistics and you get semi auto capabilities
tough quail
less accurate
dapper parcel
Like each compartment and room
junior trench
less accurate
no less accurate than the sniper G43s and sniper SVT-40s, as like those, they'd be taking the most accurate rifles from the line and sticking a scope to them
it's more that the off set scope mounting was just weird
and sniping wasn't a very prioritized function
frigid karma
idk
junior trench
also the US had Garands as an actual full blown standard issue
frigid karma
even if it's less accurate, just having the semi auto capability along with higher magazine size and easier logistics would be three massive pluses
junior trench
M1903 uses the same ammo, and the scope blocks the stripper clip guide, so you're just loading loose ammo like all the other bolt gun snipers of the era
so there's approximately zero logi burden
junior trench
sniper rifles aren't high parts usage items
frigid karma
what i'm saying is
junior trench
and parts, while interchangeable, were no where near as perfect as they are these days
so trying to fix your Garand sniper rifle with standard parts will just get you a standard Garand with a scope
frigid karma
if you have 1903s for sniping and garands for standard issue, you'd need to bring in parts for both guns
junior trench
rather than the accurized pulled off the production line because it was special rifle you got
qwerty
you need special parts for sniper Garands
because you have to hand fit them
frigid karma
isnt it mostly the mounting system
junior trench
lolno
it's the manner of fit
like I said
this is an era where sniper rifles are the oddballs from the production line who by random chance have the closest tolerances and best performance
so "parts" is an utterly inane thing to worry about
frigid karma
junior trench
because any part replacement is going to involve hand fitting and gunsmithing
or else you lose the quality which made the rifle a "sniper" rifle
also
it's a bolt action
if you're worried about how many parts there are you either have a very badly designed rifle or a horrifically designed logi system
frigid karma
look all i'm saying is
having garands for both standard issue and sniper rifles is a slight plus in logistics
a slight one
dapper parcel
even if it's less accurate, just having the semi auto capability along with high...
Going from a magfed bolt action to magfed semiauto isn't that much of an "upgrade" tbf
junior trench
having garands for both standard issue and sniper rifles is a slight plus in log...
it's not
at all
because you need special parts and fitting for the sniper Garands as well
frigid karma
but why would using springfields be better then?
frigid karma
this discussion is around garands vs springfields for sniper service
and i was saying using sniper variant garand rather than sniper springfields would slightly benefit logistics
ofc it's not a very large benefit, especially for the US which can easily field both guns in large numbers, but still
junior trench
it wouldn't benefit logistics at all
like
actually read what's being said to you
tough quail
no less accurate than the sniper G43s and sniper SVT-40s, as like those, they'd ...
afaik sniper bolt actions were more common pretty much everywhere
junior trench
yes
tough quail
not because anything is wrong with garands
but more just bolt actions are inherently more accurate
also cheaper
junior trench
also the sniper G43 and SVT-40 "sniper" models of the time really don't fit into the normal doctrine for sniping very well and are just in a weird place
dapper parcel
Are we talking about traditional sniper or sharpshooter/DMR here, because if it's the former logistical simplification doesn't really make sense beyond making the team carry less parts, which bolt action excels at
junior trench
M1C/D is weird because the US wanted to try to use it for both, but mostly the former
G43 and SVT-40 with scopes were usually the latter
but also sometimes the former for pretty callous cost benefit reasons in close terrain
tough quail
brain hurt
junior trench
"we can just leave one sniper behind with a semi-auto and he'll probably last longer than the usual dude with a bolt gun" delaying type shit
frigid karma
but more just bolt actions are inherently more accurate
but the marine corps was also adopting M1Cs by the korean war as their standard sniper
shrewd pecan
the ability to have more rapid follow up shots counter acts the advantage in accuracy with the engagement ranges your going to be expecting at the time in my opinion
spiral cedar
That's sort of the crux of the issue, yeah. Just because the bell curve of accuracy may be shifted slightly higher with an "inherently more accurate" design doesn't change the fact that you're still only pulling the tail end of the bell curve off the production line for sniper issue
strong plank
it might have also just been simpler to use the springfields they already had
that way you're not taking away M1s that could be issued to normal troops
spiral cedar
The variance in production quality in this era makes "inherent accuracy" for most rifles not relevant
Mauser action as a design may allow for higher accuracy in principle than Enfield action, but production variance swamped the inherent benefits of one over the other
shrewd pecan
you don’t really get the extreme range sniper shots until the Vietnam war
tho even the longest ones out of those was scored by a modified M2 browning
In terms of WW2 and the DMR niche I’d say the rate of fire matters much more than having a tad better accuracy
If your dealing with ranges measured in the 800+ department I get why you’d want the accuracy advantage
Tho the like 200 meter engagement distances of Vietnam and Korea you aren’t really getting much of that tad extra accuracy
somber knoll
tho even the longest ones out of those was scored by a modified M2 browning
Carlos Hitchcock moment
tho it wasn't until SVD became widespread that others consider the DMR concept with target ranges between 300-800 metres is at least gonna have some benefit.
dapper parcel
Hitchcock's methods were also quite unconventional for a "sniper"
spiral cedar
maiden citrus
where to even dang start
alpine onyx
With such things there is no point in starting
somber knoll
Hitchcock's methods were also quite unconventional for a "sniper"
to be fair Man just slapped his M40 scope to his platoon's M2 and murmured "looks like this guy can spank a Vietcong form more than a Mile away".
and boom, the 2.415 meter kill happened.
spiral cedar
Using Trevor Dupuy’s Quantified Judgement Model numbers for force posture, terrain, equipment value, etc. the Germans were outperforming the Americans on a per-person by 3 to 1, or 2 to 1 if you assume 50% of that came from the QJM factor for Major Surprise, although achieving that surprise itself is an application of skill. In fact, the Germans outperformed their enemies by every conceivable metric in that battle, and had a few circumstances simply worked in their favour, they might well have won.
However, from a German perspective, the Americans were pushovers. Of the Western Allied powers that Germany faced from 1943, they were by far the least skilled. They had the lowest morale and cohesion, the least well-trained infantry, and while their tankers were less clumsy than the British, they were scarcely good. The only arm the US had that was actually professional was the artillery.
Patton’s main contribution was that he recognised the Germans weren’t beaten yet, and so, would probably attack. He is greatly overrated as a commander though. His infantry used what were basically WWI style attacks, little different than what the Soviets and Japanese were doing.
maiden citrus
the jaba quora time
spiral cedar
somber knoll
Jaba Quora time is always gonna be a good wacky time 
remote monolith
I miss this kind of horrid history take posting that is common in this channel a long time ago
maiden citrus
frigid karma
It sure hit a lot of them…odd of him to ignore the effects
subtle prawn
The destroyer Forbin in May 1943 during her repatriation to French North Africa following her internment in Alexandria. She retains her red brick hull number ‘T32’. When repainted in the US Navy’s two-tone Measure 22 scheme, the hull numbers would be reduced in size and painted in white. (US Navy, NH110755-2, courtesy of A D Baker III)
spring briar
manic latch
Sabaton: We don't glorify Wehrbs
Also Sabaton: chooses song topics that Wehrbs will worship to
Never ask Wehrbs why Germany wanted 6 H class not 6 Bismarck
manic latch
spring briar
Its actually not 305 but same principle
subtle prawn
celest fractal
Reading arguments in Quora make me wheeze every single time
manic latch
celest fractal
white rose
Oi, I’m trying to recreate the Task 77 force for my fleet in the game. What shipgirls will I need?
eternal veldt
As answered in al-lore already, you're looking for the Surigao Strait order of battle.
WeeVee, Tennessee and California are the more contributing "backline" ships as they are equipped with the modern Mark 8 Fire Control Radar.
The preceding torpedo strikes by the destroyers and PT boats, however, already did a good number on the approaching Nishimura force.
white rose
eternal veldt
Though, I don't recommend taking these ships to World 14 if that's what you are trying....
white rose
Not exactly
white rose
Though, I don't recommend taking these ships to World 14 if that's what you are ...
So then, to you, what would a Tf 77 Azur Lane fleet look like with the shipgirls we have available as of now?
I’m thinking Aulick would be in Vanguard
eternal veldt
I'd take the shell lobbers instead of the DDs
that means Denver, Columbia, Minneapolis, and the three BBs I mentioned, but that's me
Bache, Phoenix, Boise, Portland, Shropshire all work
white rose
Which BB’s? BatDiv 2 or BatDiv 4? Mississippi isn’t in AL yet.
eternal veldt
WeeVee, Tennessee and California are the more contributing "backline" ships as t...
These 3
They're the first to acquire firing solutions and commence firing
West Virginia opened fire at 0353, and got off 93 rounds of 16-inch AP before checking. Tennessee and California, starting at 0355, shot 69 and 63 rounds of 14-inch AP respectively, fired in six-gun salvos so as to conserve their limited supply. The other three battleships, equipped with Mark-3 fire control radar, had difficulty finding a target. Maryland picked it up by ranging on West Virginia's splashes and got off 48 rounds of 16-inch in six salvos, starting at one minute before 0400. Mississippi fired a single salvo and Pennsylvania never managed to locate a target and took no part in the action.
white rose
I can only get Columbia by Farming 11-4
eternal veldt
Bache, Phoenix, Boise, Portland, Shropshire all work
Well, the substitutes are here.
white rose
Still waiting on Edson, hopefully next Sea of Stars Eagle Union event. He’s heard my cries on Twitter, as evidenced by 3 separate tweets that I liked.
I’ll send links
If you are able to see the list of people who liked them, Intern-kun is one who liked them
It probably means nothing to most of you, but it’s definitely a sign of hope
Again, I want the USS Edson cause she’s literally a Ship museum around 10 miles from where I live
She served in a way akin to HMS Enterprise, but did a lot in her service. Probably the most well known Forrest-Sherman class DD
desert agate
Intern kun likes a lot of things on twitter that doesn't make them canon
Man's just a liaison between the company and the fans
white rose
eternal veldt
Edson is very very far away, all due respect.
white rose
From your location yes
eternal veldt
Forrest Shermans are strictly post-WWII vessels, and the furthest we've went are ships that started construction in WWII, and completed post-war.
We're not touching post-war vessels for a very long time.
white rose
But we literally just got pre-war German ships for Rondo
eternal veldt
Germany is literally scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point.
desert agate
And?
eternal veldt
US and Japan are not.
white rose
I did suggest adding other ships in the class like Turner Joy and Somers
desert agate
Yeah rondo was just an attempt to give the IB some actual content that isn't 📰
eternal veldt
All their WWII capital ships were exhausted very early in AL's lifespan
desert agate
We'll see Commonwealth factions before post war ships
eternal veldt
The only "large" ships we have remaining are Scheer and fucking Emd*n
desert agate
I hope
desert agate
The only "large" ships we have remaining are Scheer and fucking Emd*n
Surface raiders 
CL
no HP
extra damage to CLs I guess
eternal veldt
Do we really want to do Hilfskreuzers
and watch Pinguin get dunked by Cornwall
and I'm pretty sure you argued here that Sydney's captain was a bit silly and maneuvered her too close
desert agate
Well yeah that's exactly what happened
He closed to point blank range
So the complete lack of fire control wasn't an issue for Kormoran
eternal veldt
I'd say "Master and Commander moment", but that isn't quite right
desert agate
Opening salvo was within 500m iirc
eternal veldt
Statute of Wesminster cancelled 
desert agate
Republic declared
Biggest mistake Curtin made was downplaying nationalism after the BPF showed up
eternal veldt
how so?
desert agate
Well after the fall of Singapore, the loss of the 8th division and the complete collapse of the British Empires Far East Curtin made his famous "We look to America" speech that declared the importance of Australian independence in foreign policy and a departure from British policy
Once the BPF showed up circa 1944 the RAN had some of its major units subsided to RN task forces and his rhetoric was far more pro British
Although I suppose it's hard to be anti British when their battleships are sitting in your biggest city
eternal veldt
Heh, wouldn't be nice if Anson repeated what she did in Hong Kong after liberation
using her bofors and searchlights to shit on Japanese soldiers that refused to surrender
desert agate
Curtin also died before the war ended which prevented him from shaping Australia's post war policies
Given that his party entered and remained in government on the basis of British failures in foreign policy I can see him abandoning wartime convenience in favour of pulling Australia further from the empire, even if overall foreign policy likely wouldn't change hugely
He wasn't a republican but he certainly wasn't one to bow to British interests unless he believed it directly suited Australia something which his predecessors and successors lacked
The war forced Australia out of the empires closed economy but successive governments made attempts to claw back in, had Curtin not worked himself to death I'm not sure if he would have done that
eternal veldt
I see. Thanks for all that. Not exactly versed on Aussie history. 
maiden citrus
But we literally just got pre-war German ships for Rondo
Pre, not post
There are plenty pre war ships in game
manic latch
KIMON THE LEMON
tribal mortar
USS Bache after converted into a escort destroyer
chilly osprey
Greek wiki editors were fast lol
tribal mortar
I am speed
spring briar
@chilly osprey how good is FDI
chilly osprey
<@301343127229300738> how good is FDI
As a platform, they're pretty good for their displacement. It's worth keeping in mind they're 'budget' ships versus the FREMM and also intended to be more suited to export (and are significantly smaller, at 4,500t vs 6,000t), so they're not as good, but they are cheaper. That said, they are also considerably newer designs, and have a much better radar suite than the current French FREMM. If configured for AAW, like the Greek version, they're actually better at it than the FREDA.
The main thing they sacrifice versus the FREMM is ASW capability - their design doesn't go nearly as far to reduce noise and their propulsion is CODAD, so no runnning on electric motors only. Though their sonar suite is still quite good, so they can still do ASW, and they still fit a hangar for a medium-sized helicopter (which is basically mandatory for frigates in this day and age).
chilly osprey
That was the idea, yeah
Naval Group/DCNS felt that the FREMM was too large, expensive, and overall high-end to be an effective export option.
spring briar
FREMM is good for France to buy for domestic use
chilly osprey
FDI was meant to be both cheaper for the MN to procure (to meet the require of having a 15-ship front-line fleet), and also for anyone who might buy them abroad.
spring briar
are they planning to sell licenses?
chilly osprey
Which is part of why they don't really emphasize ASW capability as much. Going the lengths that something like the FREMM (or Type 26) to make the ship almost totally silent when hunting for submarines is very cost-intensive.
chilly osprey
are they planning to sell licenses?
Remains to be seen, but I wouldn't be shocked. During the back-and-forth over the Greek deal, what was supposed to happen was that some ships would be built in France, and then the rest in a Greek yard with French help.
chilly osprey
As things panned out, all three are to be built in France, and if they go for the fourth one on option that might be built in Greece (if the Greeks procure it)
manic latch
Germany: You will use this money for your debt right
Greece: Yeeees
Greece: 3 Diet Fremms please
chilly osprey
Yeah
ivory ridge
yes
manic latch
Italians when you mention Oto
ivory ridge
spring briar
Italian GDP: 50% nonsense, 50% 76mm OTO Melara
actually
what part of italian arms exports are just the 76mm
chilly osprey
iirc there was a point a couple years ago when Fincantieri's order book was worth something like 1-2% of Italy's GDP
spring briar
humble mulch
Lol
chilly osprey
actually
what part of italian arms exports are just the 76mm
I may be able to find that, give me a few
ivory ridge
talking about 76s
spring briar
spring briar
the rest of the Italian GDP is being used to troll undy
ivory ridge
thanks discord
spring briar
ivory ridge
the 76mm with its own radar for guided rounds
spring briar
chilly osprey
Used to intercept anti-ship missiles, or fast attack craft
Hmm, so, in 2021, 'naval weapons' accounted for $24M of Italian arms exports, versus a total for the year or $1.717bn, according to SIPRI. So, time to see how much of that was guns...
spring briar
slap 76mm on toyota truck
put an automated driving system in it
release in Crimea
manic latch
slap 76mm on toyota truck
put an automated driving system in it
release in Crime...
OTOMATIC is dead Rich. Crash wasn't your fault let it go
spring briar
ivory ridge
it took me a while to realize but it's pretty easy to distinguish SR guns to Strales
spring briar
my my might it be the massive radar housings?
ivory ridge
well the whole mount is different
spring briar
manic latch
Godspeed you magnificent boyo
ivory ridge
I showed you my barrel please respond
chilly osprey
it's almost all 76mm guns lol
shrewd pecan
Godspeed you magnificent boyo
With the growing drone threat, I can see something like the otomatic actually having somewhat more of a purpose tbh
manic latch
Bringing back guns huh
spring briar
I think one VT fuzed 76 mm shell is more expensive than some of the drones in the air rn over UA
ngl
phoenix
shrewd pecan
Proxy AA rounds are like the 2nd cheapest option over EW
spring briar
how much does 76 ammo cost
chilly osprey
I don't have anything recent atm
manic latch
With the growing drone threat, I can see something like the otomatic actually ha...
US is focusing on noise/jammer weapons right
chilly osprey
But back in 2004 it was like €900 for one round?
chilly osprey
Yeah
manic latch
Laser is naval only right.
spring briar
seems pretty cheap
manic latch
What will you give to mobile land forces
shrewd pecan
Nope there’s the laser Stryker
tough quail
im excited to see how they fuck up the next spaa
manic latch
chilly osprey
Ammo procurement can tend to be variable in cost, often it depends on how much volume it is bought in
manic latch
Nope there’s the laser Stryker
Bro what kind of generator that thing can carry
spring briar
russian 455kg shells costing 550 rubles
tough quail
sergeant york still fries my brain trying to figure out how it ended up so bad
manic latch
shrewd pecan
Prototypes being fielded this year
chilly osprey
Tbh, I'd really only consider something like a 76mm gun making sense for land AA if you're trying to use DART to intercept cruise missiles. Or, maybe, if you think someone's going to come in low with an Su-25
Otherwise, smaller autocannons up to the 40mm range are going to be what you'd want to use against the cheap and shit drones
spring briar
76 also seems a bit overkill for drones
even the larger ones
chilly osprey
Anything of real performance you'd need a SAM anyways
ivory ridge
remember what they took from you
spring briar
ugly tires
manic latch
remember what they took from you
Like the old days of Soviet Union 
ivory ridge
ugly tires
shrewd pecan
if you need like a all factor air defense system for protecting various things from drones, artillery rounds, rockets and aircraft I can see the use in a 76 or a 57 for the purpose
spring briar
65 mm return
manic latch
57
manic latch
sergeant york still fries my brain trying to figure out how it ended up so bad
Didn't they jumped to that thing from 40mm Duster
chilly osprey
if you need like a all factor air defense system for protecting various things f...
Yeah, but I'd argue that for land based systems 57mm and 76mm are too heavy for what you'd be using SPAA against, and anything heavier that might justify the heavier gun you might as well shoot at SAM at
manic latch
NATO needs to develop 305mm artillery already...
Bruh they won't pass 155mm
chilly osprey
A 20-40mm is going to kill most loitering drones pretty well. But if you want to shoot down MALE's firing stand-off munitions, you should just be using SAMs
spring briar
305mm RAP with 80 km range
shrewd pecan
eh it’s likely a 35-40 MM would get the task done, but still I can see the use in a 57 or 76 in a combined air defense grid
spring briar
manic latch
305mm RAP with 80 km range
Also Soviets had not great experience with 420mm and 406mm. Why do you think they lowered to 203mm
spring briar
because you can't tow a 406mm gun
shrewd pecan
It gives additional range over the conventional auto cannons while still being much cheaper than the SAMs in terms of cost per shot
spring briar
manic latch
because you can't tow a 406mm gun
Why 305mm is fine 
chilly osprey
Also Soviets had not great experience with 420mm and 406mm. Why do you think the...
why do you think everyone eventually lowered to 152-155mm, including the Russians
manic latch
*why do you think everyone eventually lowered to 152-155mm, including the Russia...
Russia still use 203mm
ivory ridge
chilly osprey
~~Russia still use 203mm~~
They use what they have left in service, which is very different. They've been moving away from that caliber, phasing it out in favor of more 152mm guns.
manic latch
They use what they have left in service, which is very different. They've been m...
Yeah. I miss the twin 152mm tho
spring briar
dispersion
manic latch
dispersion
Delayed fire 
alpine onyx
Looks better at a parade
spring briar
delayed+swaying --> longer time needed to rezero
manic latch
Looks better at a parade
It never joined parades tho single prototype as i know
chilly osprey
It gives additional range over the conventional auto cannons while still being m...
I'd agree with that argument entirely if we're looking at ships at sea, but I just don't know if it's worth it if you're placing it on land vehicles. They're a lot heavier and have much more of a footprint than a 35-40mm gun. And for the same size vehicle you carry a lot less ammo.
And against low-flying stuff, you may very well lack the LoS to actually take advantage of the increased range, the same way you can at sea.
shrewd pecan
Yeah. I miss the twin 152mm tho <:Sadge:757500586777116752>
it probably has the MRSI round count of a god, tho I can’t imagine them being too accurate
shrewd pecan
I'd agree with that argument entirely if we're looking at ships at sea, but I ju...
fair
manic latch
it probably has the MRSI round count of a god, tho I can’t imagine them being to...
Yeah I guess. Maybe it's fire rate over accuracy mentality
But would be perfect Event vehicle for War thunder
Useless but funny memes
Like that Swedish? Artillery
shrewd pecan
Would be a bitch to maintain tho
manic latch
Likely the complex system and that was the reason it wasn't accepted
So going with single 152mm
Love the Koalitsiya 
One of sexiest artillery
What was US developing now
They cancelled a few
manic latch
What was US developing now
Ah M1299
3rpm
But 10 if autoloader
155 mm L/58 XM907 gun
70 km (rocket-assisted round)
manic latch
But 10 if autoloader
Originally the autoloader was planned to carry 31 rounds and be in service by 2024, but as designed it was too large for the vehicle, so it was reduced to a 23-round capacity for better weight, center of gravity, and "onboard kills".
manic latch
Originally the autoloader was planned to carry 31 rounds and be in service by 20...
Why they didn't make the vehicle bigger
That's almost %30 loss
shrewd pecan
weight and likely size limitations
manic latch
shrewd pecan
idk the thing is meant to operate beyond the range of basically all counter battery
it has the luxury of rearming in safety
manic latch
idk the thing is meant to operate beyond the range of basically all counter batt...
I will not forget the Crusader
spring briar
manic latch
I will not forget the Crusader <:Sadge:757500586777116752>
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld cancelled the US$11 billion program because he considered it neither mobile nor precise enough
shrewd pecan
I’d agree it didn’t make sense for the era
tho for today platform would be incredible
manic latch
I’d agree it didn’t make sense for the era
Virgin M1299: I will keep range to be safe from enemy
Chadrusader: Composite armor
shrewd pecan
The thing only weighed 40 tons man
shrewd pecan
probably strategic mobility pre weight cuts
manic latch
The Army required that the Crusader was to share a common engine with the M1 Abrams. The principal driver for this change was to shed weight off the Crusader
manic latch
probably strategic mobility pre weight cuts
Actually...
The officials discussed cuts to the Crusader, RAH-66 Comanche helicopter, and F-22 Raptor. Some officials questioned whether the howitzer was redundant given the parallel development of a lighter howitzer for the Future Combat Systems modernization effort
Yeah a future dead project likely helped the death of Crusader project
Ironic
manic latch
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Combat_Systems_Manned_Ground_Vehicles
I really wonder why Russia tried to pull same thing with Armata project given even US had this problem
Like it looks good on paper. All vehicles sharing same hull
Tho when it's tried to be executed
strong plank
I almost forgot about NG Abrams
probably more of a GDLS program than anything the pentagon’s asking for
Although I have heard from a reliable source that the army’s working on some sort of program
new tank concept for 2030 type of thing
spring briar
watches Perun video about the Bundeswehr
90% of comments start with "as a German" followed by reee
strong plank
So I guess the two could feasibly be connected
strong plank
though the impression I got was that the army thing is more of a design study
Could be yeah
shrewd pecan
Probably just another tech demonstrator
tho I do want to see what next gen Stryker is
strong plank
Wasn’t the Stryker meant to be an interim design until something came along to replace it?
shrewd pecan
It looked like something LAV-700 influenced
the Stryker is getting older and could probably use some type of major overhaul soon
manic latch
https://vxtwitter.com/GD_LandSystems/status/1574446915990732802
Damnit why it has to be black chrome
strong plank
You know I do wonder in regards to next gen Abrams having a crewless turret
if the pentagon would go for that after its experience with Stryker MGS
manic latch
Armata style smol turret?
spring briar
Damnit why it has to be black chrome <:Sadge:757500586777116752>
no need for electric furnace to fry an egg in the desert
strong plank
I mean it’s obviously not gonna be black when it’s built
spring briar
bet
strong plank
They just want to go for the sleek apple-esque marketing look
manic latch
I mean it’s obviously not gonna be black when it’s built
Black Knight flashbacks
shrewd pecan
I don’t think they’d go with a crewless turret for whatever the army goes with
spring briar
T14 moment
strong plank
Yeah I don’t think it’s real likely
shrewd pecan
It doesn’t really match with how army tankers fight
manic latch
Black Knight flashbacks
strong plank
But given they did use MGS for a bit, I guess it’s not like they have zero experience with the idea
shrewd pecan
now that can always change
spring briar
challenger 2 makes me sad
manic latch
challenger 2 makes me sad
Internet explorer.
Leaves rifled in 2030s
So uhh
What was the advantages of no crew turret
Except size
Less weight for sure
Easier maintenance given smaller size?
strong plank
better crew protection iirc
manic latch
Yeah they have to hit to hull to kill you
But turret has no armor or very little. So you can easily get mission killed?
strong plank
owo
strong plank
marine corps recon vehicle
spring briar
I see
shrewd pecan
What was the advantages of no crew turret
better protection for the crew since you can focus all of the armor in the hull
spiral cedar
The deck [of Bismarck] was thin – maximum 120 mm, against the maximum 232 mm adopted by the British in their contemporary King George V, over the magazines.
Kinda scratching my head over where these numbers came from
spring briar
yammy is 203 iirc
strong plank
it came to me in a dream
spiral cedar
200 over the horizontal, with a bit of backing
manic latch
> The deck [of Bismarck] was thin – maximum 120 mm, against the maximum 232 mm a...
Man if this was true it would be even more sad
spiral cedar
Specifically:
Horizontal protection (Centerline):
Weather deck - 0.55" CNC on 0.71" CNC (1.15" CNC equivalent)
Second deck - 0.71" CNC
Main armor deck - 7.87" MNC on 0.39" mild steel (8.06" MNC equivalent)
Splinter deck - 0.35" D steel (ignored)
Horizontal protection (Outboard):
Upper side hull - 0.98" D steel (vertical)
Main armor deck - 9.06" MNC at 7 deg w/ 0.55" mild steel backing (9.34" MNC equivalent)
Since it would imply KGV boosted all its defense to AP bombs not Torp defense
Which what her class needed most
spring briar
Since it would imply KGV boosted all its defense to AP bombs not Torp defense
the british actually were pretty concerned about AP bombs in their BB's after about 1930
they increased deck armor on the QE's
spiral cedar
I’d add that the Richelieu’s main guns were low-velocity, high mass, like most other modern navies.
manic latch
> I’d add that the Richelieu’s main guns were low-velocity, high mass, like most...
SHS Richel moment
spiral cedar
This person writes like Jackie Fisher
spring briar
This person writes like Jackie Fisher
WWE moment
manic latch
This person writes like Jackie Fisher
Never ask him why Alsace has turret at back
spring briar
who?
spiral cedar
Fisher for comparison
spring briar
his editor has four fold schizophrenia
spiral cedar
spring briar
okun also writes like that when he gets particularly excited
I wonder what the RN would have looked like if there was an anti-fisher first sea lord
SLOW
NON UNIFORM SMALL GUNS
ARMOR
oh wait that's just Maka
spiral cedar
I wonder how this will age
spiral cedar
While Bismarck wasn’t anything great, France had to build four Richelieu’s to counter two Bismarck’s. That pretty guarantees they conceded superiority to Bismarck.
spring briar
spiral cedar
As far as I remember the German guns hit harder than French ones.
spring briar
desert agate
How about I hit that fool harder than he can hit me
spiral cedar
Another classic Ben Lim moment
desert agate
You've gone so far down the rabbit hole that you've noticed regulars in the shit takes
manic latch
Another classic Ben Lim moment
Yamato carrier support
spiral cedar
He shows up in a lot of my screenshots
shrewd pecan
what type of sick joy do you even get from looking for these horrible takes and sharing them
spiral cedar
Ah, yes, the Type 22 general purpose radar, which almost managed to equal US 1942 search radar in accuracy, being used for fire control 
spiral cedar
Rough seas therefore the shells were falling almost vertically? What?
spiral cedar
I want to use the phrase “the so-called ‘truth books’ of history” sometime
Why, the British were simply hiding all that battle damage from Bismarck! Brilliant!
manic latch
Why, the British were simply *hiding* all that battle damage from Bismarck! Bril...
Jesus Christ
spiral cedar
Why, the very fact that I have no evidence proves it was a conspiracy to hide the information!
Turtleneck skin for Bismarck when 
Source: We mutually made it the fuck up
spring briar
spring briar
God damn the early models looked different
manic latch
PANG
A 2nd carrier remains a possibility 2 or 3 EMALS configuration is still being investigated
Will be compatible with V-22 and MQ-25
Launch end of 2034
Preliminary design data:
Full Load Displacement 75,000 tonnes
Overall length 310 m
Length at waterline 305 m
Overall width 85m
Width at water line 39 m
Flight deck surface 17 000 m'
(Max. design) draught 10.8 m
Work in progress of course
So take a big salt
frigid karma
Speaking of “bismark”
maiden citrus
oh wait that's just Maka
but I like uniform small guns in my own designs, I do also think you can make small gun layers work though
spiral cedar
I remember that
unborn wyvern
"The misspelling correlating with lower player performance" 
maiden citrus
bismurk in moshun a bast maid of steal
tough quail
> While Bismarck wasn’t anything great, France had to build four Richelieu’s to ...
some people need the electric chair
i always tab into this channel in a good mood
and i just
read the backlog
and i just kind of devolve into sludge
frigid karma
Why does space battle forums have so many discussions of history
Doesn’t seem to fit the name well
tough quail
probably made up primarily of 40k larping wehraboos
strong plank
<:EyjaConfused:690210620020228150> Rough seas therefore the shells were falling ...
I love the even bigger implication here
That no sailors survived ww2
Wait he meant Hood didn’t he
nvm 
spring briar
Horse I’m in heaven
tough quail
yooooooooo
frigid karma
Neat
spring briar
me scouring the russian internet dodging propaganda while trying to find the capped model 1907 APC
(I have seen horrors beyond comprehension)
frigid karma
Horse I’m in heaven
Where is this btw?
spring briar
St petersburg
tough quail
https://tenor.com/view/hurricane-irma-windy-strong-winds-hurricanes-hurricane-se...
you can't dodge me 
you will be forced to accept that the T-10M was better than the M103
frigid karma
Both are worse than the conqueror
tough quail
the chunky AMX-50 was the best of the last gen heavies, just didnt hit proper production
spring briar
Proper production is for countries with too much money
tough quail
you'd be surprised
frigid karma
Ww1 had them
spring briar
frigid karma
Aren’t they mostly North Africa?
tough quail
no
frigid karma
Maybe there’s some obscure Soviet tomfoolery
chilly osprey
WWII-equivalent technicals are kind of everywhere
Troops in the field will find creative ways of putting guns on trucks
tough quail
there were a lot of really fucking stupid anti-air trucks getting thrown everywhere
ghetto mortar carriers and artillery too
chilly osprey
Though, certainly plenty in North Africa among other places. The Italians really loved to put artillery on trucks.
frigid karma
How big are we talking?
tough quail
not too hard to hook up one of the smaller field guns to a truck
tough quail
the absolute biggest i can think of is like
the funny german flak bus
though thats a little more in depth
frigid karma
I was imagining a 155 on a car
tough quail
but it's still a glorified truck with an 88 and some shields slapped on
frigid karma
Isn’t the flak bus tracked?
chilly osprey
Largest I can recall off the top of my head is a 102/35
tough quail
it's a half track iirc
spring briar
75mm mle.1897 + ducktape + truck
tough quail
🤔
fair shout
im probably thinking of something similar and fused them together in my brain
frigid karma
im probably thinking of something similar and fused them together in my brain
Maybe this?
spring briar
Hell nah
frigid karma
He’s talking abt a half track
chilly osprey
102/35 mounted on a Fiat 634N truck
frigid karma
Now that is a technical lmao
chilly osprey
90/53 on a Lancia 3Ro
spring briar
Cease
frigid karma
Continue
tough quail
i mean this is the war that saw somewhat regular use of just
chilly osprey
90/53 on a Breda 52
frigid karma
Any funky French resistance technicals
frigid karma
Char 2c turret on a Lamborghini
tough quail
dragging 80mm+ mortars around behind motorcycles
chilly osprey
Lancia 3Ro again, this time with a 100/17
spring briar
Any funky French resistance technicals
Look at this beast
tough quail
beep beep
frigid karma
What caliber? 100?
frigid karma
100 was a long shot
chilly osprey
SPA Dovunque 41 with a Breda 20/65
spring briar
Yes
chilly osprey
Someone needs to make a book on WWII technicals lol
frigid karma
Any armored shit
ivory ridge
Lancia 3Ro again, this time with a 100/17
This one was added this year in WT 
tough quail
hey unde what's the biggest gun you've fit on a truck
frigid karma
Didn’t Spanish civil war have improvised armor by bolting on plates to trucks
chilly osprey
This one was added this year in WT <:YEPPEGA:717573566647763016>
based
ivory ridge
chilly osprey
Naturally
ivory ridge
chilly osprey
Also, I found a pdf on Italian shells, but it's all in German.
unfortunately, seems to just be army shells from WWI
tough quail
lads on tour
chilly osprey
Too large to share over discord, though
spring briar
Also TIL during the battle between Slava and the HSF at moon island the russian put makeshift ballistic caps on their shells to increase range
chilly osprey
That must have done fun things to the range tables
frigid karma
you mean moon sound?
frigid karma
is there an island around there called moon island
only moon island google tells me of is one in massachusetts
must've been a hell of a navigation error on both sides
spring briar
frigid karma
anyways how do you make "makeshift" ballistic caps
spring briar
From brass
ivory ridge
hey unde what's the biggest gun you've fit on a truck
Not a truck but how about a 149/40 on a Semovente chassis
spring briar
No
ivory ridge
tough quail
Not a truck but how about a 149/40 on a Semovente chassis
fucking based
frigid karma
Screw cone on shell
how much would that even increase range by?
spring briar
how much would that even increase range by?
Enough to make the germans scared
spring briar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Ordnance_Training_and_Heritage_...
I see a K5 railway gun
Bunch a wehrbs
ivory ridge
truck
spring briar
Americans be like
Shipping 283mm railway guns overseas
Why?
Noone will ever understand
frigid karma
Noone will ever understand
like father, like son
why do the brits want random shit from all over the world in the british museum?
spring briar
They also have the one piece
ivory ridge
can we get much higher
spring briar
So hiiiigh
ivory ridge
Botes
frigid karma
huh, arabic
ivory ridge
@chilly osprey seen you in the comments of this post talking about some kind of FREMM EVO, do you have anything to read about that? I'm kinda interested
ivory ridge
huh, arabic
Omani boat
chilly osprey
Oh, forgot to get back to that guy about that
chilly osprey
<@301343127229300738> seen you in the comments of this post talking about some k...
According to insiders (via Badman), FREMM-EVO is a new evolution of the FREMM-IT-ASW - effectively FREMM updated for the 2020s, which the navy wants to procure to increase the number of ASW frigates available.
This would be effectively taking one of the ASW FREMMs, replacing the CODLAG propulsion with IEP, the forward 76/62 with a 127/64LW, and redesigning the superstructure for the Kronos Dual Band radar. Presumably they would also be built with SADOC 4 as their CMS. They may also have 32 VLS as built, rather than being FFBNW the strike-length cells.
At the time it was reported, the MMI was looking to procure six such ships (and two extra DDX on top of the two planned, to bring the fleet to six ships sooner rather than later), though from the director of RID we here four frigates, which probably reflects a later estimate (no word on the extra DDX from him, however).
ivory ridge
Nice
I wonder, with current world events, how likely would it be for cavour to stay commissioned a bit longer even after trieste is ready? 
Err
Garibaldi
frigid karma
there are 2 schools of thought, but neither should probably be discussed in this channel as it's current politics
chilly osprey
Honestly I'm not sure. Garibaldi was supposed to be out of service once Trieste entered service, but then this whole satellite launch platform thing came up.
And that was before certain events
I'm not sure, as of now, when she's actually intended to enter service in that role
But idk if the navy has the manpower to spare to, say, operate Garibaldi on top of everything else once Trieste enters service
strong plank
ivory ridge
strong plank
"just pull the F14s out of storage" my brother in christ they are in iran
ivory ridge
cinder escarp
Nukes at high alt are extremely effective EMP generators, they are continent-scale pulses
tribal mortar
Is Amatsukaze a prototype for Shimakaze?
cinder escarp
Nope, she's just a bog standard Kagero
Shimakaze was "based" on the Kagero/Yugumo class, but was a new design intended to fulfill the "Type C" destroyer role.
tribal mortar
Damn you Kancolle wiki
cinder escarp
(Kagero/Yugumo was "Type A" and Akizuki was "Type B" - later on the Mutsu/Tachibana were added into fulfill the "Type D" role as replacement destroyers)
junior trench
Afaik there was only ever some boiler testbed shit as the relation
tough quail
yeah she's just running similar machinery
cold pumice
I do not care for modern destroyer design
desert agate
1930s
modern
tough quail
dont try to make sense anything he says
tired flower
shrewd pecan
Nukes at high alt are extremely effective EMP generators, they are continent-sca...
I'm going to be honest here if your attempting to disable the US military with nuclear weapons, I don't think the EMPs are gonna be the relevant factor here when everyone is dying in nuclear hellfire
dusty kraken
Dollar store F-22
shrewd pecan
<:MurmWat:839635014256951296>
flying the F-14 with none of the systems that made it good operational
fierce sparrow
zealous vine
What are the only decent qualities of russian warships ww1, 2-ish (including paper ships)
Or even potentially redeeming
alpine onyx
They had a decent medium AA gun at the outbreak of WW2 (but don't ask about the rest of their AA)
somber knoll
junior trench
blowout panel machine broke
or to be more exact
the Leopard 2's like 12 rounds of turret ammo is capable of burning through the bulkhead separating it from the electronics compartment of the turret to its right
setting the electronics on fire, and eventually the rest of the tank
manic latch
What are the only decent qualities of russian warships ww1, 2-ish (including pap...
that felt personal
They ended up more useful than your Musashi is that what you want to hear
spring briar
What are the only decent qualities of russian warships ww1, 2-ish (including pap...
305 mm/52 naval gun
manic latch
Imperial Russian 12" shells had very good metallurgy
Did you liked the 356mm (build for Izmails)
spring briar
I mean
it's a scaled up 305/52
how bad can it be
I will regret saying that
I'd also say Tsesarevich but she was built in France
and people are quite critical towards tumblehomes, which is understandable
maiden citrus
maiden citrus
to bring you happiness
spring briar
the only thing that brings me happiness about her is her guns
and how funky she looks
manic latch
Ayay
junior trench
Aluminium?
yes
spring briar
yes
you're fucking kidding me right
what for?
"wEiGHt SaVInG"?
Al has at worst a fourth of the tensile strenght
half the melting point
which dumbfuck designed this
humble mulch
Using aluminum as the bulk head material where your shells are is incredibly fucked
zealous vine
<:PepeStare:912789768964833341> that felt personal
No like, I really want to hear about the potential of Soviet naval craftsmanship
Perhaps I shouldn't have emphasized the "only"
manic latch
No like, I really want to hear about the potential of Soviet naval craftsmanship
I see
See. Revolution really ruined lot of things
- the purges
Since the war prevented any development on important things like armor, weapons etc
zealous vine
Good point
manic latch
And some engineers of Tsar leaving go other nations or getting killed by Stalin
Stagnated the whole think
I doubt Russia would have problems on building cemented plates +230mm if revolution never happened
spring briar
be careful with using the revolution as a reason for everything wrong with soviet industry
all it takes to not be able to produce such niche stuff is sending a senior engineering that has knowledge to gulag because he criticized the regime
zealous vine
How developed of a navy do you think they could get?
(Say, could they create something akin to a super-dreadnought like Queen Elizabeth?)
zealous vine
And on time? I mean, not building a super dreadnought when fast battleships are starting to pop up
zealous vine
just look at the Izmail class battlecruisers
Oh right
spring briar
on time is another story
depends in which shipyard its being built tbh
nikolaev is ideal
but baltic shipyards during the winter have much slower production
unborn wyvern
Also all production was canceled in 1941 and diverted to making tanks and guns due to a unforseen significant emotional event
molten karma
I know I haven't been in this channel in a long time but I would like to thank whoever recommended this book to me a few months ago, fantastic purchase
subtle prawn
celest fractal
Today I contacted the US Embassy
I found out that you need to have a green card to join the US Navy. Also, some positions are unavailable to non citizens. Looks like my dream of becoming a US Navy Aviator is dead
spring briar
spiral cedar
Unless you become a citizen
desert agate
LMFAO
spiral cedar
What
strong plank
spring briar
🕵️
spiral cedar
Which was it
celest fractal
Richie why did you send an anime kissing gif
celest fractal
also why don't you just become a pilot in ph
Our Air Force is modest at best
spring briar
that means you'll be more valuable on an individual level
desert agate
look up aircraft of Philippines air force
primary fighter is FA-50
I'm so sorry
ivory ridge
loli f-16
desert agate
Tbh I don't think getting US citizenship would be that hard for a Filipino
spiral cedar
Dual citizenship is a thing as well
The issue is time vs. ideal ages to become a pilot
celest fractal
I only have 1 citizenship
Jesus you still need a green card to apply for a US Citizenship
spring briar
I mean if you're young enough and have the facilities to become US citizen, go for it
otherwise I'd say the second best is becoming a ph pilot
spiral cedar
US Navy pilots require a 4 year degree from an accredited college + US only citizenship (aviators are officers and officers usually require single citizenship, tho you can apply for an exception)
And the age the US Navy accepts pilots are 19-32
Add on the green card and citizenship wait times, which could be about 2 years each (~4 total)
Tho the citizenship wait time could overlap with college degree I suppose
celest fractal
spiral cedar
May be a bit faster if you can find someone to marry in the US who is a US citizen
spiral cedar
Add on the green card and citizenship wait times, which could be about 2 years e...
Green card wait time is longer for Filipinos since they hit the (stupid) country quotas for immigration the US has
celest fractal
So it will probably take 6 years?
spiral cedar
Possible
spiral cedar
Green card wait time is longer for Filipinos since they hit the (stupid) country...
And I mean, longer than 2 years for PH green card
There have been cases of some taking 20 years
You’d probably want to talk to your local US consulate for more details
Since there are lots of details that determine type of visa that can change the wait time significantly
Earlier you ask the better so you can make your decision
celest fractal
Thanks
spiral cedar
Even if you do decide it’s worth it, be sure to keep a backup career in mind since it’s still possible to fail the pilot course for reasons outside your control. So make sure your degree is in a field that both the Navy likes and that you can get a job in later
celest fractal
Noted
spiral cedar
Anyways, buena suerte 
strong plank
intelligence is always a fun field
spring briar
spiral cedar
Sparky time:
If we cannot keep up a constant air cap over our airfields by rotating planes and wearing everyone out (note our super carriers can't even keep a CAP overhead, only a pair of so-called "less costly" F/A-18 Super Hornets are on deck ready-to-launch), its entirely possible that some friggin bi-planes (aircraft that sacrifice qualitative speed for maneuverability and long flight duration or range) with air-to-air-missiles could hover near our air bases and NOT LET ANYTHING TAKE-OFF. The UAV panacea people would love this mission as its made-to-order for their anti-egomaniac-fighter-pilot agenda. You could say we would shoot down the modern-day Gloster Gladiators with surface-to-air missiles but they would counter that they are invisible by stealth features--so no detection and lock-on would take place. Shoot down the few F-22s we have and its "Game over!" for the USAF or the USMC with F/A-18s...or any other expensive fighter-bomber we can only employ in handfuls.
strong plank
one of these days I'll watch pentagon wars
spiral cedar
Imagine multiple PGM strikes on the crowded flight deck full of F/A-18s or F-35B/Cs. If the enemy is crafty he will not shoot-down all our F/A-18s or F-35B/Cs during their abortive counter-air mission--he will let some THINK they have gotten away and follow them back to their carrier to then shoot them down--and sink their carrier and kill the 5, 000 men and women onboard. Maybe this is what the Nazi Neocons want--to offer a version of Pearl Harbor-enrage-the-American sheeple-into-war bait that comes to the door steps of areas they want to rob their resources from?
strong plank
I just haven't been in the mood for brain damage yet
Imagine multiple PGM strikes
oh so he does admit they work then
spring briar
just old hot takes?
spiral cedar
A lot of pundits theorize that had the Germans mass-produced a QUALITATIVELY superior Me262 jet fighter beginning early in WW2, they could have seized air superiority from us and ground our ground maneuver to a halt--maybe even preventing the D-Day landings which as it was succeeded only by a thin margin due to our Army incompetence.
Our P-39s and P-40s were in some ways at a qualitative disadvantage against both the German Me109 and the Japanese Zero--both of whom were what we would call today "lightweight fighters"--killer bees without armor protection in order to maximize maneuverability. The typical bureaucratic WW2 spin is that we mass-produced our medium-to-heavy armored fighters and somehow also had superior maneuverability and speed via better aerodynamics and power. However, when you read about Colonel Lindbergh's unofficial P-38 combat missions, he almost got shot-down one day by a Jap Zero LATE IN WW2.
Which is totally unrelated to why both the Me-109 and the A6M variants progressively added more armor and protection to the airframes, right?
frigid karma
which succeeded only by a tiny margin
Does this man think all the fronts were like Omaha beach
spiral cedar
Ah yes, the A6M, a Navy-only plane that its pilots were taught to use in B&Z tactics and not turn-fights like the Army guys, is now being used as the reference plane against Chennault’s Flying Tigers who didn’t fight the A6M since they fought Army planes using different tactics… 
tepid mulch
Any ideas what ships the Imjin War era Joseon navy have besides turtle ships and panokseons?
chilly osprey
The things I come back to in this channel...
spiral cedar
ivory ridge
The things I come back to in this channel...
Never safe on weeb servers
manic latch
Today I contacted the US Embassy
I found out that you need to have a green card...
Told ya
Have to be US citizen to reach important places there