Colored places are the finished parts
#history
manic latch
stoic spruce
knowing how she ended up maybe it's for the better that she never sailed
manic latch
knowing how she ended up maybe it's for the better that she never sailed
Kinda depends. If Ulyanovsk was finished before the collapse. She would be doomed like first 2 Kirov class (who suffered reactor damage and couldn't be repaired during 1990s period which resulted in their scrapping.
But last 2 Kirov survived because well. Being much younger so not suffering from curse of 1990s that much. If Ulyanovsk was %90 finished let's say before collapse. Things could be different I guess
Kuznetsov would %100 retried for sure thanks to her
And yes. Ulyanovsk was also a aircraft carrying cruiser
Nuclear aircraft carrying cruiser*
shrewd pecan
I don't really think
Ulyanovsk would be in any better shape than Kuznetsov
again Kuznetsov's problems aren't really due to design there down to lack of budget and corruption
considering the state Moskva was in where she apparently wasn't even able to defend herself due to broken systems despite being a flag ship before she went down
tho obviously Ulyanovsk would have the better capability due to having actual AWACs aircraft, even if her shape was rough
desert agate
i mean there was also a couple of inherent design flaws
sorts of things you'd expect to be fixed in 40 years
but y'know
corruption
shrewd pecan
yeah
manic latch
Ulyanovsk would be in any better shape than Kuznetsov
At least there wouldn't be smoke jokes
Given nuclear instead Mazut
This was her flight force
Without Mig 29k
36 Su-33. 18 in Hangar 18 on deck
8 Yak-44 AWACS. 4 on deck 4 in hangar
17 Ka-27. 12 hangar 5 on deck. Two being rescue purposes
So total of 61 aircraft
subtle prawn
frigid karma
@desert agate do you have a pic of a hole in Bismarck’s citadel armor caused by Rodney ad a link to where it’s from
Specifically
Link to this
subtle prawn
spring briar
Le Hardi
frigid karma
This was a citadel penetration, right?
frigid karma
Shel
spiral cedar
Beeg cavity
spiral cedar
Is it Kongō's OG shells
spiral cedar
1400 lb right
spring briar
Type 3 weight yes
Cap looks to be of the same type as this
Hadfield cap to be exact
In that case the Japanese shell could also be a type 5
spiral cedar
Such a face-hardened plate is within, though near the edge of, the typical plate-to-plate quality variations of most such armors at that time. Indeed, British acceptance tests had TWO minimum striking velocity values where no through crack must be made in the plate: The regular one for the desirable standard plates (the one I use in FACEHARD) and a lower one where the plate would still be accepted, but at a lower cost to the Admiralty (the US Navy had no such double standard). This does make it more difficult to analyze British warship protection, since there is no way to tell what quality plate is mounted on any given part of any given ship. If the plate is one of the low-cost plates that they had at the proving ground and decided to use up in these tests, which is reasonable, as this is not a test of the latest 7" CA armor, then it can very easily be at 0.88 quality without any need to fall back on older, inferior armor types. Note also that the quality of the HT plates can vary somewhat and thus this can soak up some of the needed variation otherwise being applied to the 7" CA plate.
spiral cedar
Ah yes, Bismarck, the 1918 H-class battleship(??)
H class is a 1918 design, source trust me bro
alpine onyx
That is an improved version of this Bismarck = Bayern 2.0 nonsense
spiral cedar
alpine onyx
I think there was a source where they stated that they made 30kn, as it was announced via internal speakers to the crew
Totally trustworthy
maiden citrus
Ah yes, Bismarck, the 1918 H-class battleship(??)
and the ever present yamamoto class
tired flower
i heard that jmsdf will make the biggest destroyer in asia
spiral cedar
Ah yes, Vickers Hardened, developed to use only on the Yamato class, famous for being…not hardened…? wat
Iowa and Alabama would badly list after one or two even not penetrating APC or SAP shells and balancing will cause the Kirishima effect.
Which is why South Dakota famously rolled over after sustaining 26 hits and developing a 0.75 degree list…yes…
spiral cedar
Littorio gun > any 16” gun (because diving??)
Class B barbette armor (well I guess if you’re shooting at New Orleans or something…)
HE is too dangerous to carry on ships???
spiral cedar
shrewd pecan
Edwin Wilkerson
spiral cedar
14” Iowa deck armor
maiden citrus
god itself
kind summit
That is an improved version of this Bismarck = Bayern 2.0 nonsense
People see turrets look somewhat the same and they say that bismark = bayern when its not
celest fractal
Wehraboo 
tepid mulch
I think Wehrbs should ride these in the afterlife, but someone else has the detonator
celest fractal
Does Blood Winging still exist?
spring briar
All those quora posts gave me asthma
celest fractal
All those quora posts gave me asthma
as expected
maiden citrus
after the us remade it, one of the best medium sized aa guns
spiral cedar
From 1943 to 1944 it was the most important anti-aircraft gun in the US Navy
In 1942 the Oerlikon was more important just due to more barrels
But once the Bofors was available in quantity it made defeating enemy aircraft before they released their weapons easier
From mid 1944 to the end of the war, the 5”/38 became more important for killing kamikazes—the greater killing power and effective range was needed to more reliably down kamikazes before they could strike the ship
All three (light, medium, heavy) types of AA work in conjunction, but as technology and tactics evolved and availability changed, some became more important in a relative sense
tribal mortar
hmmmm... ok then, so AL as game did make a historically accurate bofors then?
spiral cedar
The quad, pretty much
The twin is messed up in AL
It should be 2 side by side barrels, not 2 widely separated barrels
tribal mortar
hmmmm... ok...
maiden citrus
thw twin was updated
spiral cedar
Ah cool
maiden citrus
it looks good now
spiral cedar
Ye
Anyway yeah, most will agree that the Bofors 40mm was the finest medium AA weapon of the war
Reliable, mass-producible, effective ammunition, good rate of fire
tribal mortar
BTW, is there anything in mind of a AA Gun worth of UR Status that is made/planned during WWII to almost early Cold War setting?
spring briar
Twin 57 bofors
tribal mortar
Hmmmm... Holy... It is from Bofors again but ok
tribal mortar
Hmmm... oh ok...
spring briar
But the gun itself were obviously good too
tribal mortar
hmmm... oh okay.... but it is '61 made... but ok
tribal mortar
oh, 51, we can call that a legal one then...
tribal mortar
Hmmm... okay... nice info here
tribal mortar
Ouch... Okay...
spring briar
JB retro with the twin 57mm would be epic
tribal mortar
hmmm... more like, SanKai + that = no planes shall pass
celest fractal
If I finish Navy Flight School training will my wings be pounded directly into my clothes making me bleed?
spring briar
maiden citrus
The twin 76 mm AA could have been UR too but its ssr
yeah... that was a huge mistake
manic latch
BTW, is there anything in mind of a AA Gun worth of UR Status that is made/plann...
Could also go with Soviet quad 45mm or 57mm.
The twin 76mm with shield mount
57mm bofors mounts as Rich said.
manic latch
Could also go with Soviet quad 45mm or 57mm.
The twin 76mm with shield mount
5...
One of sexiest work of Soviets gotta say. Ships like Neustrashimy, Kotlin class, Stalingrad class, Project 24, 66, 84 etc had it
junior trench
BTW, is there anything in mind of a AA Gun worth of UR Status that is made/plann...
the us twin 76mm automatic should have been
but it's not, for some dumb reason
junior trench
the quad 45mm is fucking garbage btw
manic latch
the us twin 76mm automatic *should* have been
It's stats are worse than Japanese triple shielded 25mm too
junior trench
yee yee ass wannabe
junior trench
low rpm and no VT in an era when everyone with a brain was doing that
the 57mm is bad as well
bitchass can't even hit a missile target drone
manic latch
Yeah 57mm was bad
But given Japanese triple 25mm is gold same as bofors 40mm etc
Will be up to Manjuu more
manic latch
Ok this is American 76mm
This is Japanese 25mm
76mm has more dmg and range but worse rate of fire
Hmm
Bro why at tier 1 25mm has more damage and rpm than 76mm tho lmao
"Ammo Type" made me wonder however
Maybe they can make 76mm UR by adding "proximity fuse" near it's name
And ammo type changing to proximity fuse
spring briar
The twin 57 she told you not to worry about
Later usually substituted for the 100mm CAS mle.1953
manic latch
The twin 57 she told you not to worry about
So uhh 
How did French get the proximity fuses
Just bought them?
spring briar
From Sweden
the twin 100mm/55's also had proximity fuze shells
and it's an Mle.1945 gun so it might be valid for use in AL
manic latch
spring briar
25 mm hotchkiss boolet
(anti tank)
127mm/54 modèle 1948
basically a development from the twin 130 on the Le Hardis but scaled down to 127 mm to use USN ammo
which is good
kind summit
I wish we had swedish ships in AL
40 mm twin m/36 "Tre Kronor", 1949
And Helicopter on the roof of the Tre Kronor aft turret, 1954. The m/44 rails for launching the 103mm flares are clearly visible. Note: The elevated turret of the main gun is turned forward.
Pics being post war ships practically were there around the end.
kind summit
Yeah their AA would be nice
No-one really knows about swedish ww2 torps though, as the only pics avaliable are heavily post-war or pre-war. But if they make them like in World of Warships it should be alright
dapper parcel
the us twin 76mm automatic *should* have been
As usual AL gun choice and naming is a clusterfuck. With them often conflating the gun marks with the mounting marks, or not making a distinction at all
That IMO opens for, say, 3" Mk.33, or even Mk.37
chilly osprey
Though I'd note VT fuses for 57mm guns were only developed in the 1960s
spring briar
Though I'd note VT fuses for 57mm guns were only developed in the 1960s
64 iirc?
before that it was just HE
any idea if it was just noze fuse HE or if it was time fuse?
kind summit
Not sure about soviets but iirc swedes made it earlier for the same caliber
stable ermine
TIL that Laffey was nicknamed "The Ship that would not die"... damn
i guess that explains her alcoholism
manic latch
i guess that explains her alcoholism
somber knoll
zealous vine
🍹
kind summit
Brits had a funny cart on Nelson and her sistership
frigid karma
No-one really knows about swedish ww2 torps though, as the only pics avaliable a...
so basically hitscan torps but low dmg?
spiral cedar
TIL that Laffey was nicknamed "The Ship that would not die"... damn
Well, depends on which Laffey you mean. Our Laffey is Benson-class DD-459, who emphatically did die to a combination of battleship and destroyer attack in the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. But there is a different Laffey, Allen M. Sumner-class DD-724, who survived repeated bomb and kamikaze attacks and is now a museum ship
strong plank
Yeah the benson Laffey tried to melee a battleship and didn’t make it
kind summit
so basically hitscan torps but low dmg?
Yeah probably
I mean you can find pictures but you probably wont find pics of their speed and stuff
tough quail
when you throw hands with a battlecruiser and she smacks your ass straight off
strong plank
iirc it was actually a torpedo that killed her
kind summit
She got a hit from Hiei and then got a torpedo
strong plank
She did injure the enemy admiral though, and kill his chief of staff
unborn wyvern
iirc it was actually a torpedo that killed her
I read that as "It was actually a Torpedo that killed Hitler" and now im imagining a TBM Avenger dive bombing the Führerbunker
frigid karma
heh
reminds me of bf1, you can use torpedo bombers on any map with planes, even in the middle of the desert
stable ermine
Well, depends on which Laffey you mean. Our Laffey is Benson-class DD-459, who e...
Right. I discovered that later. I was wrong LoL
spiral cedar
It happens. Learning is the important part 
fervent wyvern
American destoryers 
eternal veldt
I forgot if it's Buchanan that had a shot trigger its torpedo mechanism and had a warhead stuck in its funnel during Guadalcanal 
subtle prawn
jovial elm
maiden citrus
I’ll have two number 9s, a number 9 large
stone sorrel
Vaping is cool
tough quail
words you read on the azur lane official history channel
spring briar
The original hadfield AP cap patent shows it has knurling
And idk how to feel about that
tough quail
did you know the vmf invented vaping
shrewd pecan
Yeah less uncontrolled cook offs from lit cigarettes being dropped in ammo & fuel storage
ingenious isn’t it
don’t get me wrong Kuznetsov is still spewing out black smoke, it is Russian surface fleet maintenance
just not as bad as in that meme
spring briar
kind summit
don’t get me wrong Kuznetsov is still spewing out black smoke, it is Russian sur...
Its 3 engines out of 4 working
So yeah it makes it worse
Fairly common among ships if they use too much power though
rapid junco
spiral cedar
This is the kind of person who gets a 10% tip at a restaurant and then follows you outside complaining it wasn't 20%
rapid junco
He didn't even elaborate why we were "Incompetent"
But my guess is like
"Latin Americans are dumb"
Although i should say that the Youtuber that made the video did some slips
For example
He mentions the data of what the 1st Fighter Squadron did in Italy
But he don't mentions the unit itself
cinder escarp
don’t get me wrong Kuznetsov is still spewing out black smoke, it is Russian sur...
The never-ending refit from hell replaced the boilers, should she ever actually finish it she won't be vaping anymore.
The boilers were completely fucked, and look like this coming out
tough quail
juicy
spring briar
I’ve seen chemical reactors that have been constantly running since the 50’s to this day in better condition than this
unborn wyvern
This is a certified Canadian Pacific Railway moment
spring briar
Looks like the corner of a swastika lmao
frigid karma
nazi pac-man
spring briar
WeeVee said fuck it and became a Mogador
dusty kraken
Was gonna say it looks like what happens to your lungs if you smoke but lung cancer looks better than this tbh
shrewd pecan
The never-ending refit from hell replaced the boilers, should she ever actually ...
I don't have much hope for them not returning to that state within the next decade with Russia's most recent budget considerations
god the fact she was even running this long with boilers like that
manic latch
god the fact she was even running this long with boilers like that
Bring Union back please. My girls are dying 
manic latch
I’ve seen chemical reactors that have been constantly running since the 50’s to ...
Did they also used Mazut tho
But Sarcasm is correct. Boilers replacement should fix the smoke problem
As we see her sister in China has no problems like that
Keep her safe and comfy China
spring briar
Did they also used Mazut tho
shrewd pecan
I mean
China has actual defense budget
and not nearly as bad defense procurement corruption issues
subtle prawn
maiden citrus
and army is the 4th
junior trench
Ribbed for your pleasure
subtle prawn
shrewd pecan
o damn
guessing its gonna be the one going to the Army trials
damn 50 MM with Spikes
spring briar
Cardonald laughing at firth and hadfield’s banana shells
junior trench
tfw the RN just mixes them up for issue
"RNG has decided you get no deck pen today"
maiden citrus
something wrong with our bloody ships today and well basically every day in fact
spiral cedar
>>> Such a face-hardened plate is within, though near the edge of, the typical p...
Reminder of this
spring briar
At a lower cost to the admiralty
spiral cedar
Why yes, sometimes we’ll get a lower quality plate and buy it anyway, and just slap it on
spring briar
maiden citrus
when you cheat the paper specs, then decide you want to try typing god mode into the command console too and the game crashes
spiral cedar
No, there is no way to know what quality your armor plate is, or who made your shell, or what your muzzle velocity will be out of these mixed barrels
spring briar
You’re the ammo procurement officer on HMS Hood, pick one
maiden citrus
honestly stuff like this just makes me wonder how much worse even a lot of the uk ships that didn't really do anything were even from reality or paperspecs
maiden citrus
dreadnought is already worse than sc on paper, and the british cheated paper, add stuff like this and where do you end up
maiden citrus
Also AL’s “6 CRH” shell looks suspiciously like a 4 CRH shell
if it was a 4crh it'd be the best meme this game has
spiral cedar
Also AL’s “6 CRH” shell looks suspiciously like a 4 CRH shell
It is
Checked with ruler
maiden citrus
spiral cedar
It’s like 3.7crh but that’s just the slight perspective shift from being slightly angled
spring briar
The most egregious issue on dreadnot are the shells, in 1909 France had a 20 degree obliquity requirement in place, but UK shells werent going through half caliber thickness armor plates at 15 degree obliquity
junior trench
dreadnought is already worse than sc on paper, and the british cheated paper, ad...
don't forget the funny thing where a British inch/pound is thinner than an actual inch/pound iirc
maiden citrus
so the 'excellent performance' quip is about a shell that, pictured at least, does battle with nevada's 14''/45s as commisioned
maiden citrus
don't forget the funny thing where a British inch/pound is thinner than an actua...
yeah that's what I mean by one of the paper specs
they say it is x when it's not
then even have the gal to round up
spiral cedar
Meanwhile, USN in 1910:
BuOrd: Okay, new 10 deg obliquity requirement, go
Midvale: All of ours passed, minimal damage
Crucible: Some of our shells failed but overall no lots failed
Bethlehem: Uh…none?
maiden citrus
and dreadnought was so rushed, so on top of all these, you just gotta wonder had bad the ship actually was
maiden citrus
spiral cedar
80 years early, but it was a long-term promise
spiral cedar
To an extent
maiden citrus
only around 35ish years early honestly
spiral cedar
So long as you’re able to at least shoot out to 20k yards in WWI, you should be okay
spring briar
Also reminder the British and Germans were using practically the same shells at Jutland from an exterior point of view but germany used hard caps and britain soft caps
spiral cedar
Bringing the enemy under fire to reduce their accuracy is important
spring briar
😭
spring briar
Light shells seem to have been Germany’s shtick
Tfw good W/D^3 but shell explodes before making use of it
spiral cedar
“Hey why are our shells exploding on contact”
“Well because that’s what the spec says, any delay action is a malfunction”
“When was this written?”
“19th century…”
spring briar
Me with french ballistic tests against Iéna’s hull showing correct function of the shells
@spiral cedar found the plans for that one old IJN 36cm shell
Looks like hadfield pattern shell
spiral cedar
Positively WWI cavity
spiral cedar
According to the US 16”/50 range table for the 1900 lb HC projectile, at 20,000 yards, an extra 10 fps MV will produce an extra 124 yards in range. If we take this to be comparable to the effect for a similar variation in the UK 16”/45 range table for the 16” AP projectile (not going to be exact but we just want ballpark here) and if we take this effect to be fairly linear (first order approx.), then the 28 fps variance in new-gun MV for Nelson’s guns will increase the range pattern by over 300 yards (347) before any other effects are applied
spring briar
The british 16” and its stocky body are not the best examples of ballistic performance
spiral cedar
To check whether this is a reasonable estimate, we use the same methodology for a known value for the Nelson guns. At 40 deg elevation the two riflings vary by 690 yards. Taking the lower velocity rifling (39090 yards) to be indicative of the lower MV, we get an equivalent value on the US range table of 257 yards at 39100 yards, for a calculated estimate of 720 yards
This amounts to about a 4% overestimate for just under double the range
This suggests we can expect roughly ~330 yards of extra range dispersion from the varied new-gun rifling effect on Nelson’s guns
This is more of a problem for Rodney since Nelson didn’t get the mixed barrels until 1944, but Rodney had them since 1937 and continued to get new ones through 1942
spiral cedar
Yep
maiden citrus
yes
spring briar
spiral cedar
The different riflings were mixed on each ship and even in each turret. According to "Naval Weapons of World War Two," this was unique as "such differences were totally at variance with the usual British policy for heavy guns in important ships" whereby every effort was made to ensure that each ship had guns of uniform characteristics. As completed, both ships had all Mark I rifling. Nelson in May 1944 received guns with Mark II rifling for "B" and "X" turrets, but "A" turret was not changed until March 1945. For Rodney, in December 1937 "B" turret was changed to two guns with Mark II rifling and one gun with Mark I rifling. In 1938, her "X" turret was fitted with three new guns with Mark I rifling and "A" turret received three new guns with Mark II rifling in February 1942. This mixing on Nelson and Rodney caused initial dispersion problems due to the differing muzzle velocities, but these reportedly became less pronounced as the guns wore.
28 fps difference in MV when new-gun
spiral cedar
Eugene Slover:
Dalghren sometimes provided tables like the one below to show us how wild the pattern would get if the powder IV were allowed to varie in the
same lot of powder.
The table shows very well the effect of gun IV variation due to powder variation.
This is why each and every batch of powder was tested at Dalghren to insure that each lot of powder issued to the fleet would produce the same
IV in a new gun with the same weight of projectile.
Occasionaly in todays world someone finds one of these tables and incorrectly assumes that all lots of powder cause these variations in gun IV.
They have assumed incorrectly because you cannot have these variations in powder because you would be shooting all over the ocean and you
would never hit anything.
The only things that cause a variation in gun IV in the Fleet are changes in powder temperature and change in weight of the projectile.
You will never find in any USN text book where there is a variation in gun IV due to variations in the same lot of powder.
Dalghren made sure this could not happen because of testing each and every lot of powder before it was issued to the fleet.
Meanwhile, Admiralty:
Yeah lmao what’s an extra 28 fps
In actual range tables issued to the gunners, the only cause of varied MV (aside from barrel wear, obv.) is powder temperature
spring briar
The gunnery crew of Richelieu that was forced to use a 785 mps mv instead of 830 mps
spiral cedar
If the powder is consistent, that just means you need a fixed correction to the range tables
spring briar
wasn't fun
also makes everyone use her 785mps mv instead of the original 830 mps in debates
but hey a bit more deck pen
also kinda funny that even Alaska had the option to fire at a lower MV for more deck pen
just as the SHS was intended
spiral cedar
Alaska did?
spring briar
there's two range tables
one with original mv and one with reduced charge and only 549 mps
lol
manic latch
and not nearly as bad defense procurement corruption issues
You tell me Tato. You tell me. This just happened in 2021
No wonder she is stuck in drydock hell
spring briar
navweaps doesn't state what this reduced charge was for though
and it lowered the max range to 21 km
spiral cedar
there's two range tables
one with original mv and one with reduced charge and o...
I believe that’s the charge used for gunnery practice
Since they don’t want full charge barrel wear for practice if not necessary
spiral cedar
There is a 701 m/s “special charge” though 
Still listed as for the practice round tho
spiral cedar
The 701 for the /50 is known to have been issued because Jurens (iirc) confirmed it by checking the logs, but I just don’t know of a similar case for Alaska specifically
spring briar
USN be like: gets 16" guns and plans to use with Mk.5 iirc?
everything goes fine on construction of NC's and Sodaks
plans to use /45's on Iowa?
somehow Buord fucks up and needs to make a new turret with old /50 barrels?
introduce SHS and implement on all ships instead of Mk.5
profit?
or was SHS already a development for the /45's
spiral cedar
You mean the Mark 6 guns?
spring briar
yes
spiral cedar
They’re pretty much contemporary
spring briar
I would like to make a full development timeline for the SHS and the USN 16" guns because they make less sense than you'd believe at first glance
spiral cedar
The Mark 5 shells and the Mark 8 shells started development about the same time, and that’s also when the NCs were being designed
(mid-1930s)
spring briar
the Mk.8 was originally designed not as a deck puncher but as a shell with more weight to retain penetration despite being longer to protect the shell's function
iirc?
the USN's big requirement for shells was that the fuze would function
maiden citrus
iowa planed to escalate to 50s and they were going to use already existing 50s (from the 1920s sodaks) but they made the turret incorrectly and had to design a new 50
spring briar
to such a degree that the exact timing of the fuse didn't matter too much
spiral cedar
The deck punching was a desired result, they just also didn’t expect much loss in belt pen as a result
This ended up being a bit overoptimistic until the latewar SHS was developed
maiden citrus
but shs was already around yeh, the colorado hoists just couldn't handle the long shell
or they'd probably be using them too
spiral cedar
The heavier shells were developed for long-range gunfire to get "plunging fire" deck hits, where the added weight of the shell and the somewhat lower muzzle velocity combined to give the shells less air drag and a steeper angle of fall, allowing the heavier shells to penetrate deck armor significantly easier. It turns out that increasing the projectile weight and lowering the muzzle velocity to compensate has a much more negative effect on face-hardened side armor penetration than on homogeneous, ductile armor (as used in decks and other thinner places). Thus, side armor penetration was going to be slightly lower for these heavy shells than the higher-muzzle-velocity, lower-weight older-ship shells even if both had the exact same physical properties. The weight ratio is only to the 0.2-power, while the velocity ratio is to the 1.21-power, assuming equal damage to the shell. This exact relationship was not known then, but spec test results indicate that they knew that there was a difference when dealing with face-hardened armor. Against homogeneous armor, the total kinetic energy is indeed the rule, so there is really no penalty for swapping velocity for weight, hence the bonus of using a heavy shell.
It wasn't until the 16" Mark 8 MOD 6 of late-1944 that an improved Mark 8 shell with some of the better toughness of the later MODs of the 14" Mark 16/16" Mark 5 shell series was finally developed; nobody had thought that it was any kind of problem, since any of those shells were WAY better than the WWI shells they replaced.
spring briar
then the /50 decreases deck pen for more belt pen but a bit less deck pen because by then the USN wasn't yet in their deck punching doctrine?
spiral cedar
The 1920 SoDak /50 or the Iowa /50?
maiden citrus
I believe the idea was to give more belt punching ability but retain the still much stronger than average deck pen
spring briar
they initially used the /50's because they were spares from the sodaks?
maiden citrus
the original sodak 50 with original shell is a monster belt puncher
spiral cedar
I believe Friedman’s discussion of it was just that the /50 was a “more powerful gun” (which it is) and that they wanted any increase in firepower over SoDak after spending an extra 10,000 tons
maiden citrus
yeh
spring briar
this was before the introduction of fc radar so they didn't count on accurately being able to punch decks as well I believe
spiral cedar
It was before, yes, but they expected to hit at long to extreme range—with aerial spotting
spring briar
maiden citrus
ships in the usn were trying out radars in the late 30s, but yeah they were also well equipped and trained for aerial spotting
it's why the standards had lots of catapults and scouting craft
20s updates increased elevation and lots of practice was given with aircraft for spotting
spring briar
This ended up being a bit overoptimistic until the latewar SHS was developed
late war SHS was a better belt puncher?
spiral cedar
The weight didn’t change but the toughness was improved, which gave it belt punching only negligibly inferior to the latewar Mark 5 (2240 lb)
spring briar
less deformation on the shell means the shell is losing less energy
makes sense
but by then the BB vs BB scenario was pretty much a pipedream
spiral cedar
Well, not exactly
The USN continued to form lines of battle against reports of Japanese BBs approaching down to Ten-Go
spring briar
what year is this?
spiral cedar
1944
spiral cedar
Ten-Go is ‘45
spring briar
were USN AP fuses still having quite a large range of error on their delay action by then?
junior trench
partially tungsten SHS for the colorados
spiral cedar
So (depending on when any specific ship got the new shells, but BuOrd gave out specific orders that the ships were to get the new shells ASAP so it probably wasn’t long for most ships) had the Japanese closed with their battleline (and the USN stood and fought) at Philippine Sea, Leyte, or Ten-Go, they could’ve had a battle with the new and improved SHS
spring briar
how do you think the SHS would have evolved if BB's had been continued to be built but belts slowly became thicker and homogeneous as time progressed?
spiral cedar
were USN AP fuses still having quite a large range of error on their delay actio...
I don’t believe they changed the fuze design or intended delay for the Mark 21 BDF, just the 1943 fix for the “long term storage in high temps” issue (dipping the fuzes in Bakelite)
So the variance should have remained the same, just fewer duds
spring briar
~~partially tungsten SHS for the colorados~~
France was prototyping 203 and 155 mm sabotted AP with tunsten cores
basically, would we be seeing the same developments as tank ordnance
spiral cedar
how do you think the SHS would have evolved if BB's had been continued to be bui...
They may have eventually tried out the “triple alloy” super-hard caps on the big SHS too that IRL only the 6” and 8” SHS got, but that one does actually come at a cost in deck punching, which is a lot less preferable for BBs (that can actually hit at such ranges) compared to CL/CA
spiral cedar
probably not, since the USN penetration test standards skewed thicker and thus there’s less benefit to pointed noses relative to rounded
(at high obliquities rounded is better for thick plates)
If the goal is to pen thin armor sooner then pointed works better
maiden citrus
spring briar
They may have eventually tried out the “triple alloy” super-hard caps on the big...
why the need for such cemented belt killer shells?
spiral cedar
For the cruisers, it sort of makes sense because as cruisers escaped treaty limits they would grow in size and armor, and thicker armor was more likely to be cemented
spring briar
you got a source for these shells I can read?
spiral cedar
And the upper deck would knock the cap off anyway so it wouldn’t make too much difference for the deck on most trajectories, though admittedly still somewhat worse since the shell bodies were lighter (greater % cap)
The NOTCHED CAP/HARD CAP (over 600 Brinell Hardness Number face) is true (YES) if the face is, as in the German L/4.4 AP caps, above 600 BHN, though the notch at the corner od these caps to screw on the windscreen was not very big (this "notched corner" is usually for small shells like 37mm with a windscreen screwed onto the cap face's edge). This YES entry causes a reduction in penetration at ~40 degrees or less (no effect above this) due to the cap breaking up earlier during the more square-on impact causing the cap to cave in earlier and shatter more easily, so it does not dig into the plate as deeply before being either shattered or knocked off as the average softer/tougher caps (but still hardened). US Navy 6" Mark 35 MODs 9 and 10 and 8" Mark 21 MOD 5 (super-hard "Triple Alloy" caps) are the only US Navy caps that fall under this YES entry.
spring briar
notch parameter
12%
ffs
French APC is made to just fwoop through belts with minimal resistance and the 785 mps velocity does not do it any favours
though it is a good velocity for the crucible made 15" shell
btw did the USN adapt the improvements of the SHS to the Mk.5 too?
spiral cedar
Yes but it was a smaller benefit since it was already quite tough
So the latewar Mark 5 and Mark 8 are close in belt pen
spring briar
but which has the better deck pen
spiral cedar
Mark 8 ofc
spring briar
see that's the weird thing about it
at the same range of smth over 30k yards Lion's shells have more deck pen than the shs out of the /50 though idk if this is the old or the new SHS
spiral cedar
Where are you getting Lion’s stats
spring briar
facehard
using blue band shell pattern for Lion and compare it to SHS
spiral cedar
FACEHARD doesn’t do deck pen
spiral cedar
What range
spring briar
one sec
spiral cedar
Navweaps tables:
US 16”/45 Mark 6:
25 - 1521, 25.4
30 - 1490, 34.1
35 - 1531, 45.2
US 16”/50 Mark 7:
25 - 1632, 21.1
30 - 1567, 28.25
35 - 1556, 36.27
UK 16”/45 Mark II/III
25 - 1544, 24.0
30 - 1498, 32.2
35 - 1517, 41.5
So relative to the US Mark 6 it’s quite similar, tho somewhat less steep angle of fall (combined with lighter shell) means worse deck pen
The US Mark 7 is clearly faster and flatter shooting, so whether the deck pen is more or less will depend whether the heavier shell (literally) outweighs the shallower angle of fall
I’ll be back when I wake up
maiden citrus
sleep well friend
spring briar
(bottom pic)
far left Lion shell
far right Iowa
using the older SHS
so less though
deck pen is almost the same but slightly better for Lion's shell apparently
top pic is for maka to have fun with
spring briar
stares angily at maka
spring briar
second, it's a great visual
I can turn Jaba's tables into those easily
want me to demonstrate?
maiden citrus
hm, yeh that sounds fun
maiden citrus
the hips don't lie
maiden citrus
spring briar
the rest is just adding color and funni drawings
maiden citrus
funni drawings are always nice admittedly
maiden citrus
maiden citrus
pats good
manic latch
Navweaps tables:
US 16”/45 Mark 6:
25 - 1521, 25.4
30 - 1490, 34.1
35 - 1531, 4...
Where Soyuz
Say Rich. Did Lion had more data on her guns than Soyuz ones? Despite Soyuz gun having real action in ww2
manic latch
manic latch
manic latch
subtle prawn
manic latch
https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1571661121865809920
Gaijin: Good good
dusty kraken
gaijin trying to not add a leopard for an update challenge (literally impossible)
manic latch
The rare picture of General Dynamics proposed diesel-powered M1A2 Abrams (SEP turret standard) for Turkish MBT competition in 2000.
GD mated a SEP turret to the EuroPowerPack automotive test rig creating the prototype diesel-powered M1A2 in preparation for Turkish competition
dusty kraken
gaijin trying to not make french players feel cucked (almost impossible)
ivory ridge
manic latch
Tho yeah they need their navy
spring briar
They got their Mirage
tribal mortar
lmao
jovial elm
They got an amazing jet this patch, silence!!!
Italy, the uk and others don't have a decent top tier jet at all yet
jovial elm
build good jets then
Or Gaijin should just get the rights to the tornado
I guess I am the only person watching the state funeral
jovial elm
I agree, the 3 or 4 people left who play naval would love to see that
spring briar
spiral cedar
Those aren't the stats I meant
I meant stuff like shell weight, striking velocity, angle of fall
spring briar
well don't have that
maybe navweaps?
spiral cedar
Navweaps has it for the Mark II and III version of the gun
The final draft of the ship was meant to have a heavier shell for better deck pen, but they seemingly never settled on a shell weight so it's unknowable how it would have performed (IV)
spiral cedar
Navweaps tables:
US 16”/45 Mark 6:
25 - 1521, 25.4
30 - 1490, 34.1
35 - 1531, 4...
So if we take the numbers we do have, aka what Navweaps gives, it'll be with these numbers
spring briar
makes more sense that the SHS has more deck pen anyways
ivory ridge
They got an amazing jet this patch, silence!!!
Italy, the uk and others don't ...
The Uk got the harrier 2 tho?
manic latch
They got an amazing jet this patch, silence!!!
Italy, the uk and others don't ...
Ye getting Harrier GR7 shut
manic latch
neutrality F-35s
"Neutral " sure
ivory ridge
https://twitter.com/thef35/status/1571879284377018371
and these could have their FACO in Italy too 
manic latch
only 4th gens ingame right now are the Mirage 2000 and the F-14
Mig-29 next 
shrewd pecan
also I don't even know what your expecting from the Tornado ADV, its gonna have the same armament as the British F-4s
manic latch
British is getting the Harrier 2 so
US should as well soon
Something feels wrong about A-10. Dunno why I expect her to turn better
shrewd pecan
I'm half tempted to grind the A-10 just for the AIM-9Ls
ivory ridge
Gaijin said the US didnt get the Harrier 2 this patch because they already have good CAS
shrewd pecan
yeah
manic latch
yet
ivory ridge
Also i dont really see people wanting the Tornado for the ADV version
it's mostly people wanting the IDS for CAS
then again, the British ADV was upgraded a lot
manic latch
When your Tu-4 gets fucked by sidewinders because it's balanced
shrewd pecan
depends on which variant they get
ivory ridge
well duh
shrewd pecan
I'm assuming they aren't gonna smack them with the radarless one
ivory ridge
technically Italy can get the most Tornado variants
IF we include the ECR, which is unlikely
shrewd pecan
god I hope they don't add SEAD missiles to the game
manic latch
Soviets shall get 3 Su-25 for now. Early, K, and maybe late later
ivory ridge
UK: IDS and ADV
GER: IDS and ECR
IT: IDS, ECR and ADV (leased)
shrewd pecan
yeah I kinda hope the ECR never gets in
since ground RB CAS/drone bullshitery is already bad enough
lol
ivory ridge
and the Italian F-16As also arent normal F-16As
they were upgraded so much that they are better than newer variants
shrewd pecan
I should probably go through the effort to grind Israeli air at somepoint
eventually we will get the Jew eagle
manic latch
they were upgraded so much that they are better than newer variants
Saudi Tech tree soon
shrewd pecan
god no more tech trees
manic latch
Poor Turks getting their vehicles as paywall
shrewd pecan
only viable one at this point is Korea and that's just gonna be M48 and T-62 variants until you finally get the K1s, K2s and the fictional North Korean T-90 they'd probably smack in there
manic latch
True
shrewd pecan
South Korea would probably make a viable sub tech tree for someone
I don't want to say Japan since that would just result in nationalist bullshit
tho Japan is like the only candidate that needs it
chilly osprey
and these could have their FACO in Italy too <:Korone_Woke:724450364107128933>
Afaik that is the plan. The first 8 will be built in the US and likely remain there for some time for training (exact same pattern as the Dutch), while the remaining 24-28 would be built in Italy at the Cameri FACO, depending on whether any of the assembly gets done in Switzerland.
So many Dutch birds at Cameri lol
spring briar
shrewd pecan
yeah
Centurion > Leopard 1 > M1A1AIM > M1A2 SEPV3
shame tho honestly
will never be able to have the Australian Boxer, M1A2 and IFV all in one lineup
dusty kraken
We need a technicals tech tree called middle east
frigid karma
Maybe, maybe not
manic latch
If not. This guy himself burned the BHR alone
subtle prawn
spring briar
unborn wyvern
Do you guys think it's a scapegoat?
I think it is really, it's the Iowa turret explosion all over again with the navy blaming policy and procedure failures on their part on a single individual with a colorful history as a get out of jail free card
spiral cedar
Where are you getting Lion’s stats
@maiden citrus @jagged monolith @spring briar @tough quail @eternal veldt @junior trench @ivory ridge
Target 1:
Weather deck - 1.5" STS
Main armor deck - 5.0" STS on 0.75" STS backing (5.5" STS equivalent)
Target 2:
Turret roof - 7.25" Class B
Target 3:
Turret face - 18" Class B at 49.10 deg
Basically, SoDak amidships deck, turret roof, and turret face respectively
SUMMARY
Target 1: Weather + Armor Deck (outer)
31k yds - UK 16"/45 Mark III APC
28k yds - US 16"/45 Mark 6 AP Mark 8-1
31k yds - US 16"/50 Mark 7 AP Mark 8-1
Target 2: Turret Roof (outer)
34k yds - UK 16"/45 Mark III APC
29k yds - US 16"/45 Mark 6 AP Mark 8-1
32k yds - US 16"/50 Mark 7 AP Mark 8-1
Target 3: Turret Face (inner)
00k yds - UK 16"/45 Mark III APC
08k yds - US 16"/45 Mark 6 AP Mark 8-1
14k yds - US 16"/50 Mark 7 AP Mark 8-1
(I used the thinnest section of SoDak's machinery armor here, mostly because when you add up all the spaced + laminated layers it equals the 7.25" turret roof in thickness, so I felt it made an interesting comparison to a monolithic plate)
maiden citrus
spring briar
silver crest
any reason as to why the tune of god save the king/queen was used by a lot of monarchies?
somber knoll
any reason as to why the tune of god save the king/queen was used by a lot of mo...
you do know what kind of song it is rite?
silver crest
you do know what kind of song it is rite?
yes, it's about monarchy but why that specific melody tho
did they just like that melody that much?
even the 13 colonies used that melody as their independence song
somber knoll
🤦♂️
That's British national anthem
simple as that
think of it like why you sing the Star-Spangled Banner in all 50 states instead of using a regional favorite tune.
cobalt blaze
What do you guys think was the Luftwaffe’s worst L?
My pick, losing a fighter to a minimum gauge armored train.
cold pumice
the park near the library has a train that small
dark spade
hey what part of history did Asia build floating towns and castles for naval warfare?
spiral cedar
Something’s off, I can feel it
spiral cedar
I’m just confused how those entirely different sets of stats got mushed together
@tough quail
spiral cedar
frigid karma
YEAH GO SPEE
Spee has torpedoes
Bismarck doesn't
I think the conclusion is obvious
spiral cedar
That 200mm horizontal deck armor? Just for show, really. It’s made out of styrofoam and dreams
tough quail
paaaaain
spiral cedar
Also someone called Bismarck a “turn of the century design”
Bismarck being a pre-dreadnought design is a new one tbh
ivory ridge
2003 
spiral cedar
Oh no, someone brought up tanks
spiral cedar
I’m not sure what’s funnier
Somehow “teakwood” is what makes Bismarck’s belt better protected than Iowa (never mind that both ships have steel backing on their belts, and Iowa has cement instead of wood)
145mm > 6” (152mm)
1764 lbs is now only 7% less than 2700 lbs (or is it actually 92,000,000, since it specifies Iowa rather than Iowa’s shells?)
spiral cedar
<:Thinkpitz:754192058163527732> Something’s off, I can feel it
Actually maybe this person is using the same Iowa armor values as here…
Not sure where else Iowa gets an upper belt and a thicker main belt in raw thickness
First of all,
Second of all, 2300 lb Bismarck shells lol
ivory ridge
spiral cedar
Good
Not worth
Hmmmm...a Dreadnaught is defined as "a battleship with no secondary guns, or at best, heavy-calibre secondary guns that serve a dual purpose against aircraft." The Bismarck had heavy-calibre 5" secondary guns designed against surface targets only. I don't suppose you can say the Bismarck was a throwback to the "pre-Dreadnaught" era?
Did you know that not having DP secondaries makes you a pre-dreadnought
spiral cedar
A pocket battleship, I suppose, is best defined as a battlecruiser with an armor scheme most resembling a true battleship. The Deutschland class (Deutschland/Luezow, Admiral Graf Spee, and Admiral Sheer) had 5 11 inch guns, decent seccondary armament, and, IIRC, a battleship's armor scheme. They were slower than your traditoinal battlecruiser as well, though they could keep pace with a battleship.
spiral cedar
Good stuff apparently
stiff mauve
Clearly it’s the same thing WG is smoking
spiral cedar
Boarding parties 
maiden citrus
five 11'' guns
of all the stupidity that one stands out since it's the simplest thing
spiral cedar
Warspite got upgraded to first salvo hit at >30,000 yards 
strong plank
funny how the "no plan ever survives contact" line only ever seems to go one way
maiden citrus
west virginia: 
stiff mauve
So has anybody asked if he thinks Bismarck runs Gustav guns?
alpine onyx
back to the claim of German radar magically not working
crosses out on bingo chart
night heart
You guys know about princess Diana?
sullen canyon
frigid karma
Warspite got upgraded to first salvo hit at >30,000 yards <:WarBlank:75337568262...
impressive show, jaba, but still not as stupid as quora
bronze sinew
spiral cedar
It was 1944 Texas
alpine onyx
Still locked to 15° elevation
Oh wait, silly me, she'd flood her outer compartments during combat to increase range
spiral cedar
Oh wait, silly me, she'd flood her outer compartments during combat to increase ...
It's just pre-emptive counterflooding against diving shells anyway 
Also of note there was the fact that Invincible and Scharnhorst had the same thickness of belt armour.
spiral cedar
Oh, it’s the cruiser
spiral cedar
alpine onyx
pfp is accurate
spiral cedar
The fact of the matter is that the U.S. DID pour out the BBs.Two Washingtons, four Indianas, and four Iowas.
That’s a combination of class names I haven’t heard before
Can anyone recall a battle where large battleships squared off without any kind of support?
Bismarck vs Hood, they had an escort apiece,but they took very little part.
alpine onyx
I mean, on paper, Eugen should not have participated
Too bad the commander didn't care and wanted an open water gun battle
spiral cedar
I’m sorry but you people should do some research on the Bismarck. It seems to me that everyone is far to willing to ignore the facts.Her guns may have been 15"ers,but they were 52 cal. Her armor may have been thinner but by %edge she was far more protected than both her adversaries.
Krupp armor was superior to any armor of it’s time. Her rate of fire was superior to any BB ever built ,almost 2.5 per min. Her horsepower was rated at 150, 175 and her top speed at trial’s was 32 knots not29.
Her big gun shells were 1.15tons not 1700 pounds. I have allready provided the amount of damage it took to sink her so I won’t repeat it.
I don’t know why the shells keep getting inflated in weight
Over 2500 lbs now
spiral cedar
All such a scheme does is prime AP shells while it doesn't stand much chance of preserving bouncey.
alpine onyx
The behavior of the cruiser in the battle against 2 heavy enemy ships is very courageous, but does not correspond to the usual views, according to which cruisers and torpedo boats already line up in the firelee of the "Gros" - here undoubtedly "Bismarck" - when gathering for the battle.
Although the cruiser has an armament of 20 cm guns, with which the artillery officer shot creditably well and also achieved damage on the enemy, it is so weakly armored that it must be counted among the light units despite the designation "heavy cruiser". Any 35 cm or 38 cm hit would probably have made the ship a prey for the following English units or forced "Bismarck" to impose highly undesirable bindings to cover the damaged ship.
In fact, the ship only accidentally outmaneuvered a closed salvo, which, as the commander verbally reported, would have infallibly hit, by the ship having to evade a torpedo from the "Hood".```
The commander wrote some angry notes next to that part, but impossible to read those
kek
spiral cedar
If only Hood had landed a salvo on Prinz Eugen
Then no one would object to calling her a BC, since she's so good at killing cruisers 
alpine onyx
Sorry, luck stat of 40
spiral cedar
Her deck armor was only slightly thinner than the Iowa`s at 1.96", 3,14" and 4.72" with 8.7" inches on her foreward bulkhead.
Why does everyone always reduce Yammy’s deck armor?
alpine onyx
OKM: Yes, Eugen's hydrophones had good performance, but they are still subject to natural limits and can at best achieve around 25nm range, not the extreme ranges Eugen reported.
Hand-written note: 25nm = 400hm, Pr Eugen reported 360hm
Maff
spiral cedar
maybe h was read as n
alpine onyx
Since that is all written with a type writer, I prefer to blame OKM
spiral cedar
Bismarck was really an upgunned heavy cruiser.
Good golly, the Royal Navy had CVNs in 1941? Britannia really does rule the waves
Underwater protection : Bismarck has excellent subdevisions. But that's it. It has no real underwater protection. Yamato has a full fledged underwater protection system. It wasn't the best (that would be the French system), but it was damn good.
alpine onyx
OKM: The assumption of the 1AO that he has heavy cruisers [instead of Hood and PoW] as opponents is not understandable.
Hand written note: ? In reality I'd say this is difficult
Wat, no real underwater protection?
Where did that third torpedo go then?
jumped out of the water like a dolphin hitting the side, as Japanese designers were constantly fearing?
Also cue the post war US evaluation rating Bismarck's TDS superior to Yamato's
spiral cedar
It punctured the side and caused flooding through sheer kinetic energy, never detonating
alpine onyx
Should've installed crush tubes above the water line
spring briar
alpine onyx
spiral cedar
Should've installed crush tubes above the water line
stiff mauve
> Can anyone recall a battle where large battleships squared off without any kin...
Jutland
stiff mauve
```Behavior "Prince Eugene in battle
The behavior of the cruiser in the battle a...
Pretty sure it should be the behaviour of the ubercruiser /s
spring briar
Wurzburg radar: exists
The allies: don’t mind if I take it off your hands do you?
alpine onyx
Hands off of ze GHG
spring briar
alpine onyx
How else am I supposed to passively detect ships over the horizon
spring briar
Usually you use a higher tower
eternal veldt
Usually you use a higher tower
Didnt know you are a Fusou shill. Smh.
desert agate
If it works lmfao
spring briar
somber knoll
2nd turret missing the 3rd gun
manic latch
2nd turret missing the 3rd gun <:RichelieuThink:911039681968341032>
Richelieu returned fire at 09:40, but her No. 7 gun was destroyed by a shell that detonated in the barrel and the No. 8 gun was also badly damaged. This was first traced to the use of the remanufactured propellant from Strasbourg, but a later inquiry in 1941 found the explosions were caused by a flaw in the design of the shell base
somber knoll
ah, mean the design flaw that were meant to be filled with chemical-dipped?shells that they made it hollow.
the only problem with that is that the shells will have explosion hazard when fired 
so they filled the hole with concrete and designed a new base cap
eternal veldt
All barrels in turret 2
except no. 6 were unservicable.
Both barrel 5, 8, had their rifling blown out
somber knoll
good ol Frenchies 
spring briar
the only problem with that is that the shells will have explosion hazard when fi...
No, they just didn’t put the canisters in so the cap was not supported
eternal veldt
the only problem with that is that the shells will have explosion hazard when fi...
Also worrying but not often mentioned is how Richelieu's stacked directors were thrown out of their bearings and jammed
After Hermes did a funny to her butt
spring briar
Yes
Leading to the wish to not put directors ontop of one another but on seperate mounts
eternal veldt
And pump issue as well
spring briar
For maximum survivability
somber knoll
*chemical canister ye. forgot about it 
tho in a serious consideration, designing a shell to be fired with a canister inside them, then figured that they couldn't put them in the shells so the hollow part would just be filled with something else was... quite amusing.
eternal veldt
Shell cap issue is technically also that, tbh
40 degree celsius temperatures at dakar
spring briar
Toxic gas cannisters in shells aren’t something you’d want laying around in ports
Or want anyone to know about
somber knoll
Also worrying but not often mentioned is how Richelieu's stacked directors were ...
KGVs had the same problem too no? tho I figure that they had different director positions made it a bit more reliable
eternal veldt
Just ditch the rest of the cooking equipment, smh
somber knoll
bruh moment
eternal veldt
Just a short trip to Alexandria - a certain Toulon enthusiast
spring briar
I mean they literally left to Africa without summer uniforms
Imagine what else they might have left
eternal veldt
KGVs had the same problem too no? tho I figure that they had different director ...
I dont think directors in general fare well against torpedo shocks
Tirpitz's Turret D was famously thrown around and jammed after a hit
spring briar
Marzin made a valid comment for future ships
somber knoll
spring briar
But it isnt smth you’d outright think about when designing a ship
spring briar
So stacking is a good solution
eternal veldt
Tirpitz's Turret D was famously thrown around and jammed after a hit
Even more famous is her turret thrown sky high then crushing a few men swimming to shore after her destruction
there it is
spring briar
I still wanna know what was actually in those gas canisters
And one has to think about how it would work
eternal veldt
Im not too sure about the statement of taking the gas canisters aboard
Shouldnt they already be inside the shell as manufactured?
I dont think a ship at sea has the ability to insert them, behind the caps especially.
spring briar
Richie’s shells are laying on their sides with the bases pointing towards the crew in the shell room
And the caps are screw-on
Want a picture?
eternal veldt
Eh, screw on caps solved the problem for me
Again, didnt catch the detail the caps are screw on
spring briar
Eh, screw on caps solved the problem for me
Problem?
Anyways im asking tony d or okun to gimme french shell data
eternal veldt
Im not too sure about the statement of taking the gas canisters aboard
This problem
spring briar
somber knoll
how about Okun?
manic latch
alpine onyx
Tirpitz's Turret D was famously thrown around and jammed after a hit
Going off of memory, the general tale of Tirpitz' turrets after the mine explosions is not accurate, and her armament was up and running fairly quickly. Mostly problematic were the directors and rangefinders, since sensitive equipment didn't approve of four tons of explosives
spring briar
https://tenor.com/view/kermit-worried-oh-no-anxious-gif-11565777
queue the Italian quality memes
queue drach shifting blame to richelieu dispersion
queue warspite hit on giulio
junior trench
I want to pester Drach about the lax quality standards of the RN
spring briar
especially when it comes to the main armament
spring briar
a ship is nothing without its ammunition but they treated their ammo as if it was all the same
alpine onyx
I'd ask him why British cruisers lost chunks of their turret in heavy seas
spring briar
turret roof on Cheffield?
alpine onyx
spring briar
ask him about KGV TDS too
junior trench
"there was no low order detonation in ba sing se"
spring briar
and why it funnels into the machinery space instead of into more voids
alpine onyx
Sacrificial auxiliary machinery
junior trench
sacrificial machinery that powers pumps
alpine onyx
But that he'd probably rebuke with some vague ramble of Bismarck's cabling
alpine onyx
Yes, but from as far as he can tell after reading various accounts it must have been especially bad on Bismarck
Citation? Trust me bro
spring briar
on bismarck it was running on the citadel slope right?
alpine onyx
It was behind the torpedo bulkhead on the upper and medium platform deck, in four separate channels
At least amidships, when it came to the turrets it was a bit different, but still beneath the deck
He instead chose to go for the ones to the rangefinder on the main mast, that according to his judgement (there is no source) it was run in a single channel, not split into multiple ones as it was supposedly on every other battleship
And that a 406mm shell tearing through the superstructure severing the connection proves that
spring briar
The fact that both the German and French navies had obliquity requirements in place, and germany had introduced more stable propellant in 1912 together and both navies strongly invested on protection while the RN had not speaks volumes
Lyddite was also way too violent an explosive, only producing small fragments that did not penetrate far so any british shells that somehow managed to pass through half thickness armor plate at over 15° obliquity didn't do nearly as much damage as it should
celest fractal
If you fire an Aim-9 at low altitudes is there a chance of it locking onto a ship and hitting it?
calm plaza
Question, was the Iowa class built in response to the Yamato class?
spring briar
no but the montana class was
eternal veldt
@maiden citrus
spring briar
That's gotta be Tennessee
tough quail
soggy
ivory ridge
tough quail
they have her submerged in pearl harbor waiting for something funny to kick off
calm plaza
no but the montana class was
Ah okay
ivory ridge
the others.... which exactly?
tough quail
up.41, soyuz, h-class
i was including big alsace but i forgot she's only 45k tons because of space magic
ivory ridge
the soyuz are still over 6k tons lighter on standard, the H-39 is over 10k tons lighter, the H-41 is a meme
Up.41 originally is around 45k tons
or well, it started at 41 and then got to 45
it would end around 50
tough quail
oh
manic latch
the soyuz are still over 6k tons lighter on standard, the H-39 is over 10k tons ...
Was thinking H-41 ye
Is it a meme? I guess
Is it real as Montana? Yep
manic latch
Now 
Tho ain't H-39 to 41 is like
Using same hull with changes
So in a way 41 is laid down because it's how 39 would looked like in 1941?
ivory ridge
chilly osprey
They're not the same design
chilly osprey
But H-41 is a real design as in it was actually worked on a serious project by the KM's design office
Unlike H-42, 43, and 44
H-40A & B are, iirc, actually pretty much a seperate design from H-39
manic latch
H-40A & B are, iirc, actually pretty much a seperate design from H-39
Oh damn
I was wondering why Germans just call it "6 H class"
Not going 6 H-39 class instead
Thought 40 was like upgrades on 39
chilly osprey
The H-class they ordered (and laid down, for a couple) were six H-39
As time went on and they gained experience during the war, they wanted improvements for new variants that might be built after the war in the east finished (lol)
manic latch
subtle prawn
tribal mortar
Did anybody know this torpedo, and how AL accurately describes it?
Can't send full pict...
maiden citrus
they have her submerged in pearl harbor waiting for something funny to kick off
space battleship yamato rising from the sea, 1945, black and white
manic latch
Did anybody know this torpedo, and how AL accurately describes it?
Ah I know this
Torpedo of Belfast
tribal mortar
Oh yeah, that one... did AL have this? if so, how accurate they are?
tribal mortar
OUCH
Ok
Thanks for info
can't send full pict because there is a cosuplayer there btw
unborn wyvern
Well then ask them if you can take their picture or if they could move, it's a win-win
ether you get a picture of a cosplayer or they scoot over so you can enjoy the torpedos
ivory ridge
subtle prawn
subtle prawn
Not a single unit of this class survived the scuttling at Toulon on 27 November 1942. The photograph shows Foudroyant (ex-Fleuret) and Le Hardi on the bottom of the harbour, with the incomplete Bison (ex-Le Flibustier) towering above them, at the Quai Noël. (US Navy NH 110745, courtesy of A D Baker III)
spring briar
maiden citrus
spring briar
<:MurmCursed:971497656201392248>
manic latch
```Not a single unit of this class survived the scuttling at Toulon on 27 Novemb...
Luka Tim
subtle prawn
ivory ridge
Cringe
spring briar
Tf is that
manic latch
https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1572499930920648710
God how ironic really
People: Laugh at North Korea for slapping ATGM on their turrets
"Next gen tanks": slaps secret atgm on their turrets
ivory ridge
People laugh at NK because their tank is fake af
manic latch
Dunno man it's currently more real than this model
ivory ridge
Also it's an MBT with atgm and manpads
Unlike this which is a firing support light tank
alpine onyx
dusty kraken
that should be equal to the amount of challenger leaks now or nah
shrewd pecan
https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1572499930920648710
worlds largest bustle rack because we needed ATGMs for some reason
ivory ridge
manic latch
Bro that look top heavy