history

[spring briar]

Algérie and Zara at T7

[frigid karma]

Cleveland used to be t6

Mid war cruiser vs inter war cruisers

Place yer bets

[maiden citrus]

h39 'I'm a kinda bad colorado, I'm fast tho'

musashi 'I am literally yamato'

wg: eh, same tier

[frigid karma]

Turtlebaka in wows broken

Unless you drift too hard

[spring briar]

JB, Yamato and Iowas being real and at high tier

[maiden citrus]

wows, the game where the more armor you have, the more damage you take

[frigid karma]

Surprised eagle is the only real t11

I mean

[spring briar]

French BB armor in wows

[frigid karma]

Forestall is right there

Forrestal

[tough quail]

at least they indirectly got it right with bisko

where instead of eating citadels she just eats full pens hand over fist from literally anything

[frigid karma]

That’s

All the German BBs

[tough quail]

im aware

[frigid karma]

H39s also eat cits if you turn

I think what really benefits the Germans is how fast paced turning can be

Which makes most combat at 18+km ranges irrelevant

Since even in the slowest bb you can easily dodge

[spring briar]

French BB's don't even take cits after about 10km+ range

[frigid karma]

Or angle

They do

[spring briar]

meanwhile the german bb's take tons of cits

[maiden citrus]

just don't armor your ship and get constantly overpen

[frigid karma]

I devstruck a republique at 15km once

[maiden citrus]

that's the secret to being invulnerable, that and armoring your bow

[spring briar]

Republique I can believe

[maiden citrus]

trust

[frigid karma]

I remember there was a clip where it was Cleveland vs Massa in brawl

[spring briar]

Alsace, richie and JB no

[frigid karma]

And the Cleveland just sat broadside and farmed

Literally nothing the Massa could do

She couldn’t ram because BBs lose more points when they die

[maiden citrus]

I have shot furutaka's with new mex and had it bounce off the bow

[frigid karma]

Taco is like 25 right

Bounces everything up to 380

[spring briar]

no

25 does not bounce 380

[frigid karma]

Up to

Not including

Anyways we better stop before mods gulag us

High quality Texas panties

[maiden citrus]

😤

[spring briar]

angled belt + thick main deck on top

[maiden citrus]

• splinter deck below the belt

[frigid karma]

How much development was made into armored submarines btw

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

Maybe enough armor to resist 5 inch gunfire would be enough to aid in convoy raids?

And also, I noticed most subs didn’t have deployable smoke?

Why so? They have a small profile so you don’t need much smoke to conceal yourself from pursuing DDs and to make a quick dive again

[maiden citrus]

the dark side has some schemes considered by some to be

...unnatural

[spring briar]

such as

[spring briar]

maka sneaky

[maiden citrus]

❌ angled belt
thick main deck on top
❌ splinter deck below belt

[spring briar]

but yeah you don't want your TDS to vent into your citadel either

[maiden citrus]

https://puu.sh/JjnQI.png

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

toilet tds

toilet tds

☑️ angled belt
☑️ thic main deck on top
☑️ splinter deck below belt

https://puu.sh/JjnRt.png

https://puu.sh/JjnS7.png

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

😵‍💫

https://puu.sh/JjnT2.png

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

obey the wheel

[spring briar]

they tried ok

[maiden citrus]

at least bismarck counts as having a splinter below belt

[strong plank]

funny sims cartoon

[maiden citrus]

precisely

[strong plank]

lewd

[maiden citrus]

the big pog, fixing texas up nice and clean

so she can sit high and pretty like nc and others

[spring briar]

poor NC sits in the mud

[maiden citrus]

she's in a sectioned off area of a marshland

absolutely beautiful when I visited

[spring briar]

I want to visit her too one day

[maiden citrus]

what if we visited the nc museum together, haha, unless

[spiral cedar]

[spring briar]

m..maka

we can eat hot dogs on her aft

[maiden citrus]

that sounds lovely, it's a date

[dapper parcel]

Bottom suction!
She ain't moving without dredging the entire silt around her for sure.

[maiden citrus]

but yeah pretty sure she's on wooden struts and they can drain that water from the section

since when I was there it seemed very thorough

[frigid karma]

Can I just talk about how much of a scam intrepid is compared to hornet

The food on intrepid is highway robbery

They want like 10 dollars for a hot dog

[maiden citrus]

how good are they?

[frigid karma]

Hornet hot dogs cost like 5

[frigid karma]

They looked like average New York hot dogs

So like

Not really

[strong plank]

isn't NorCal basically set up so she never has to leave to get drydocked

[dapper parcel]

I thought it was common sense not to order food from inside any venue huh

[maiden citrus]

iirc as of like 2008, yeah

[strong plank]

bc all the bridges in the area already prevent that

[frigid karma]

My hornet experience was great

[maiden citrus]

and rip, exploiting the hot dogability of the populace...

come to yorktown

[frigid karma]

I got to enjoy some discounted brisket while listening to tainted love on the flight deck

And since it was 7/4 I also saw an f-18 flyover

[spring briar]

brisket

smoked

please

[shrewd pecan]

New York prices

[spiral cedar]

Last time I visited Midway all the food stalls were closed because of the pandemic

[frigid karma]

I visited during the pandemic

It was 7/4, 2021

[spring briar]

is there a naval shell museum

[spiral cedar]

When I have enough money I want to start one

[strong plank]

naval archives might have something

[maiden citrus]

I visited nc in nov 2020

[frigid karma]

https://hastingsmuseum.org/exhibit/hastings-naval-ammunition-depot/

[spring briar]

alright that's a date, jaba

[dapper parcel]

Meh, Corrosion will still find a way as long as there's some part of her that's wet and other part that's dry

[strong plank]

wisky's cafe was also closed when I went last weekend

[spring briar]

I'll be the curator

[maiden citrus]

yeh, just she seems to already be set up where they can work on her

[frigid karma]

Do you think Richy would mind if Jaba would like to introduce his shell to richy’s collection

[spring briar]

I expect Jaba to add some SHS

and special common

[frigid karma]

Hopefully no decapping occurs

[strong plank]

yeah norcal literally can't be moved from her location so they have her set up so she can be worked on there

[maiden citrus]

nc had lots of shs

and a few other shells

[dapper parcel]

base slap it is then

[strong plank]

I remember NJ had like

[spring briar]

NC has one of Alaska's 12" SHS iirc

[strong plank]

a whole room of models of other country's capital ships

[spring briar]

richie is blue

all's right with the world

[strong plank]

richeblieu

[spiral cedar]

Wasn't that one full of weird numbers

[spring briar]

ye

[dapper parcel]

Missed opportunity to match them to the war plans

[strong plank]

You mean this?

[spring briar]

spmeed

[frigid karma]

Is

[strong plank]

https://tenor.com/view/top-gear-clarkson-speed-ariel-atom-power-gif-21974831

[frigid karma]

Armor

[spiral cedar]

Not that specifically but other numbers

[strong plank]

actually wait

the museum next to wisky has this

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

that's a HC shell

disappointing

[strong plank]

comically hanging right above the childrens play area

Which is literally just an aegis

[spring briar]

teaching them young

[strong plank]

rare lex pic

I also find it kinda neat

[dapper parcel]

They lucked out with the treaties for sure

[strong plank]

Wisky had a set of kill markings on her turret from desert storm

[maiden citrus]

lex was by far the best cv conversion

[spring briar]

this would literally be me if I were an 18" naval gun

[maiden citrus]

heck I'd argue lex was the best cv of the time period

[strong plank]

While NJ had this painted in the A turret

[spring briar]

looks at béarn

yeah probably maka

[manic latch]

[strong plank]

idk about best but the akagis are kinda neat

[spring briar]

they took much longer to get good

[maiden citrus]

they were also worse than the lexingtons even after getting fixed to be useful

[strong plank]

their original config is funky

the triple flight deck

[maiden citrus]

despite being hamburger cvs

which does win them some cool points

[maiden citrus]

based

[spring briar]

Lex's are just so big and fast

[strong plank]

my dad's got a model kit of OG CV akagi that he hasn't started yet

[maiden citrus]

you hold triple deck akagi like hamburger

[strong plank]

also weren't the lex's kinda inefficient with their space?

for their size I mean

[maiden citrus]

by ww2 time yes

[manic latch]

If only Izmail..if only
28.5 knot tho but still

[maiden citrus]

but them being so huge also let them absorb changes to stay good quality for a long time

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

what

no

krem

hon

please

[manic latch]

Revolution's timing took her and her sisters from me

[strong plank]

also the lex's have that

8 inch secondary battery

[maiden citrus]

lex had the advantage of being large, so in a time where cv technology mega sucked, they just were so big it didn't matter as much

[spring briar]

Béarn smol

[manic latch]

I'm sure they are super effective that the carrier after them will also have it

[dapper parcel]

that center casemate gonna haunts me for sure

[maiden citrus]

akagi had 8'' guns

on the back of the ship

that face the water

[strong plank]

[maiden citrus]

lex's main bat at least could be used as guns

[manic latch]

Oh it's not a casemate but a turret

Turrets are inside those cute spaces

Kinda like Germans

But more near

[strong plank]

I just love that the navy was like

"but will planes be enough"

[dapper parcel]

countersunk, so eh potato-pohtato

[strong plank]

"prolly not, give em 8-inch guns just in case"

[spring briar]

USN be like

[maiden citrus]

https://puu.sh/JjoeI.png

what are you aiming at

[dapper parcel]

the landing auxiliaries are even more ridiculous

[manic latch]

Ye

[dapper parcel]

tbf, a CV are more likely to get away from contacts, not like the arcs are super bad or something

[maiden citrus]

it's at the waterline facing backwards on an inward section

[manic latch]

Should be Zeppelin layout

[maiden citrus]

this is also

after akagi's rebuild, ofc

[spring briar]

Guns on both sides

Facing backwards on an inward section

[manic latch]

Izmail's CV conversion

Armament:
8 180mm
8 102mm

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

lexington can bring 8 guns to bear at most angles

akagi can bring maybe 1 gun to bear at some angles from the waterline, 3 guns if you're at the perfect angle

[spring briar]

Yeah but she has room to put them

Which seems to be a recurring theme with her

[maiden citrus]

akagi and lexington have the same weight

that's the worst part

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

so akagi has worse protection, less planes, is slower and has less armament in a far worse position

on the same tonnage

dimensionally lex is a bit bigger

but like

man

[manic latch]

Ah. Project Kostromitinov. Result design of Soviet Graf Zeppelin study

[manic latch]

Armament: 8x 152 mm (4x2), 24x100 mm (12x2), ?x 23 mm

Adopted big Soviet daughter of Zeppelin let's call her

[spring briar]

I don’t even like carriers

[manic latch]

Same

Except Nakhimov

Soyuz hull is sexy

[spring briar]

Ballistic purist

[maiden citrus]

I like them ok, but I don't love them or anything

[manic latch]

Manjuu made me hate Sara

But Lex is ok

[spring briar]

Tbf I like some carriers

[maiden citrus]

bogue my beloved

jeep carriers are poggers

[spring briar]

But I’m not gonna gush over the more famous ones

I love the old ones

And smol ones

Other than that

Maybe CdG but only because she french

[maiden citrus]

ranger is underappreciated

[spring briar]

Ranger is JB’s friend

[manic latch]

Ranger is horrible

[maiden citrus]

14.5k tons and she's on par with any other carrier afloat

[manic latch]

Now tell me Maka

What US study said about

Minimum weight of CV

To be efficient

Now as I know. It was 20k tons or 22k

So Ranger was obsolete from the launch

[spring briar]

[maiden citrus]

as constructed ranger could operate more aircraft than refit akagi

[manic latch]

So. If two would had to fight

Don't tell me you would rather be on Ranger

[maiden citrus]

why not

[manic latch]

[maiden citrus]

ranger has more aa, radar, more planes

[manic latch]

Alright but

No torpedo bombers

Now already starting with oof here

[dapper parcel]

Less surge capacity, which was her main complaint
Tho against Japanese doctrine it's a bit wash

[manic latch]

For being very light?. Her sea keeping is bad. So making it harder to launch planes if sea is rough

[maiden citrus]

by jan 42 ranger had torpedo bombers

[manic latch]

Wait how did they managed

Lighter planes?

[strong plank]

If we’re talking early war, not having torp bombers isn’t the worst thing

If you’re American

[manic latch]

Hmm true

[maiden citrus]

by late war is when ranger had trouble due to outdated elevators

which is fixable but they didn't refit her

[manic latch]

What about her being cramped. Ain't that making launching planes harder

[maiden citrus]

she had a small engine but it was placed well, I don't think she was cramped

she's 1 knot slower with less than half the shp

[dapper parcel]

smaller flight deck
and to some extent simply smaller ship being easily tossed around

[maiden citrus]

I actually am surprised ranger could make 29-30ish knots on only 53k hp

[spring briar]

Rather sleek lower hull

[dapper parcel]

the magic of folding wings

[manic latch]

She would go 36 ish if had 130k

[maiden citrus]

gotta be, the yorktowns are around 2-3 knots faster with over double the shp and only have 4 feet more draft

[dapper parcel]

"only" 4 feet...

[maiden citrus]

22 feet ranger, 24 feet design yorktown, 26 heavy load

[spring briar]

US has more population and money to spend on her navy
Navy is bigger so more experiments can be done
More experiments lead to more succesful concepts
More succesful concepts leads to better performance despite similar displacement
USN

[dapper parcel]

4 feet difference is huge hydrodynamic-wise

[manic latch]

Izmail would go 26.5 knots with 66.000hp

[maiden citrus]

it is, but on a ship with similar dimensions (yorktown is 1 foot longer, 3 feet wider) it's surprising it barely gets you any more speed with more than double the power

then again 29 knots ish is when you start hitting pointless returns in engines

but ranger was going to have a 100k engine and they figured out how to do it on 53k so good on them

[dapper parcel]

yeah in this case it's both draft, block coefficient and hull fineness is way different

[spring briar]

[dapper parcel]

It's like comparing Iowa and Montana between the two

hull-shape wise

[maiden citrus]

idk, that's a massive difference

[spring briar]

Hydrodynamics

[maiden citrus]

the tiniest of boiler

[spring briar]

The smaller the boiler the bigger the spoiler

[dapper parcel]

I wonder if there's data out there for some silly thing like engine room air intake rate, overpressure difference, funnel draft, etc

[spiral cedar]

Wonder what “50 per cent accuracy” means in this context

[maiden citrus]

that'd be cool to see

hm, hard to say, maybe only half were calibrated properly to hit targets aimed at

[dapper parcel]

without knowing the distance it would be hard to quantify what it actually means

[spring briar]

I hope those iron bullets had knurling

But probably not

[dapper parcel]

you assume the barrel was even rifled

[spring briar]

Tiny iron apfsds

[somber knoll]

I mean, engines can only work so far as to the design and the dynamics allow it (as ard pointed out). you can reach the same speeds with the same power yet different displacements , but design and dynamics of the vessel also determine the maximum effective speed and how to reach it.

tbf, Ranger design advantages allowed her for that kind of speed with such a smaller and less power engines.

It's kinda like the aero cars that were in the vogue in the late sixties NASCAR.

[tough quail]

i hate the fact i kinda wanna play WT again

[ivory ridge]

dont

[tough quail]

but they added the coolest looking soviet tonk

and that trailer had really good musics

:(

[dapper parcel]

Tbf for 730ft lwl displacement hull, the hull speed is 36kn
there's still room to go

[ivory ridge]

i got cool looking Centauro with gen 2 thermals and 🪳 helicopter this patch so it's nice

• a BB and the first Navigatori class DD but >naval

[tough quail]

yeah this seems like a pretty good patch in general

[ivory ridge]

even if after seeing the speed of the main ATGMs on the Atak im uh

180m/s, hellfires go at 475

even the laser guided rockets are 450m/s, but i guess those have a better trajectory

[tough quail]

creeping death

[somber knoll]

how much power is available?

[ivory ridge]

they could've added the F&F version instead and put the heli at top tier instead of a premium but only nation allowed to have fun is germany

[tough quail]

[subtle prawn]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/australian-submariners-to-join-royal-navy-crews-as-uk-and-australia-deepen-defence-ties-through-aukus-pact

[somber knoll]

oh great

another wehraboo hot take

Funny thing is? guy surname sounds Polish.

[tough quail]

i want die

[spiral cedar]

Some studies have shown Bismarck to be unsinkable by gunfire. Something the Royal Navy found out.

(same dude)

[somber knoll]

ngl I want a hypothetical Mamie/Alabama vs Bisko just to prove a point for this dude

[shrewd pecan]

throw Bismarck into Ten-go instead of Yamato and see what happens

[shut carbon]

Huh.

Wehraboos in a nutshell 🤦‍♂️

[spiral cedar]

Welcome to #history

[somber knoll]

but those were mostly air raids. muh armorNgl she wouldn't even last an hour

[spiral cedar]

Enjoy your stay

[shut carbon]

I read the first two paragraphs and regretted it.

[tough quail]

i read like two or three interspersed sentences

and decided i'd rather die

[shut carbon]

Nah bruh.

That's just overextensive

[somber knoll]

His first and last few sentences makes me wanna puke

[maiden citrus]

same...

[spiral cedar]

The different riflings were mixed on each ship and even in each turret. According to "Naval Weapons of World War Two," this was unique as "such differences were totally at variance with the usual British policy for heavy guns in important ships" whereby every effort was made to ensure that each ship had guns of uniform characteristics. As completed, both ships had all Mark I rifling. Nelson in May 1944 received guns with Mark II rifling for "B" and "X" turrets, but "A" turret was not changed until March 1945. For Rodney, in December 1937 "B" turret was changed to two guns with Mark II rifling and one gun with Mark I rifling. In 1938, her "X" turret was fitted with three new guns with Mark I rifling and "A" turret received three new guns with Mark II rifling in February 1942. This mixing on Nelson and Rodney caused initial dispersion problems due to the differing muzzle velocities, but these reportedly became less pronounced as the guns wore.

Britain why

[maiden citrus]

oh yeah I remember this

[shut carbon]

Ah well.

Understandable.

Rifling eventually becomes balanced as they're more used.

The only issue I have is that Commonwealth ships tended to have different rifles on their barrels, And I despised that

[spiral cedar]

Muzzle energy (WWII AP shells)
------------
Units are in mega-slug•ft²/s²
Using new-gun muzzle velocities

JPN 46cm/45 - 327.6
JPN 41cm/45 - 228.9
JPN 36cm/45 - 147.2

US 16"/50 Mark 7 - 262.2
US 16"/45 Mark 6 - 222.0
US 16"/45 Mark 5 - 221.1
US 14"/50 Mark 7 - 169.9
US 14"/45 Mark 8 - 157.6
US 12"/50 Mark 8 - 110.7
US 12"/50 Mark 7 - 113.7

UK 16"/45 - 212.8¹
UK 16"/45 - 217.5²
UK 15"/42 - 182.0³
UK 14"/45 - 152.3

IT 381mm/50 - 235.8
IT 320mm/44 - 133.3

FR 380mm/45 - 224.6⁴
FR 380mm/45 - 200.8⁵
FR 380mm/45 - 208.9⁶
FR 330mm/50 - 156.3ⁿ

GER 38cm SK C/34 - 198.4
GER 28cm SK C/34 - 96.4
GER 28cm SK C/28 - 91.6







¹ With original Mark I rifling
² With later Mark II rifling
³ With 6crh shells
⁴ With original M1936 MV
⁵ With reduced M1936 MV 
⁶ With M1943 MV

ⁿ not AP (SAP/SAPC etc.)

[shut carbon]

Anyways.

83rd Infantry Division when?

[spiral cedar]

Turns out, if you creatively round up in any way you want lie, you can claim anything is true

@tough quail

[tough quail]

i hope this guy loses his house to an airstrike

[spiral cedar]

Those Kido Butai aircraft carriers were only ever used to damage ships, after all

Never to destroy them

They were polite like that

[tough quail]

if only the japanese didn't put the highest percentage of their naval resources into naval aviation out of the big three

if only the Imperial Japanese Navy™️ knew planes were good

[frigid karma]

former us navy officer

💀

[tough quail]

r/that_happened

[spiral cedar]

former

[frigid karma]

It concerns me this man made it to officer

[tough quail]

assuming he isnt lying

[frigid karma]

I mean I can understand Kirishima and scharn

But yamashiro

Really

[spiral cedar]

Ah yes, all those American battleships, losing their ability to escort(?) from 8” fire in May 1941…

[unborn wyvern]

I mean the thing is you can work in the navy for years and the only water you see is at the cooler between long hours on watch steering the USS Desk

[spiral cedar]

All those bombs that hit Bismarck, hm, yes

[unborn wyvern]

speaking of desk drivers, why does Nixon in the Navy somehow look less trustworthy and shifty then when he was the president doing shifty things? also why is there no USS Nixon yet?

[spiral cedar]

Hood, the All or Nothing ship

See, if I just make up higher muzzle velocities and higher shell weights, I can say whatever I want! Brilliant!

The Iowa had no protection over her entire buoyancy reserves. She could be sunk by a tug boat and a bazooka if allowed to get that close.

No WW2 Battleship ever beat another Battleship. The Bismarck beat two (Hood and Prince of Wales, or two against one), while being attacked by planes.
Ah yes, all those Swordfish attacking at Denmark Strait…

The beating that the Bismarck and Tirpitz took was equivalent to what sunk the entire fleet at Pearl Harbor. The Brits had to invent a special bomb (6,000 lb explosive) just to sink the Tirpitz.

Clearly, earthquake bombs were intended to destroy a battleship

Which are famously attached to the ground

[maiden citrus]

these things are so wrong on so many levels that it's just entertaining

[spiral cedar]

“What you call counterexamples, I call fantasy”

Guy: I only deal with reality, not gamer fantasies
Also guy: Well in a true one on one battle that would never happen…

Fact. Bismarcks’ armor scheme made her immune to cruiser guns.

Hey, did you know that 60mm of armor is immune to cruiser guns? By golly, why did they ever bother putting 150mm belts on cruisers? Could’ve cut half of it off and saved loads of cash

Oh shit, I forgot this is 300mm Bismarck deck armor dude

In fact some aspects of Bismarcks’ armor concepts are still classified today due to use in modern American carriers (blast control)

Hey now, I’m getting this strange feeling that this person may be copy pasting again…

[unborn wyvern]

earthquake bombs are baddass

[tender monolith]

lmfao

mainlining copium

[spiral cedar]

Yamato’s and Iowa’s cruising speed was around 15 knots and they did not have sufficient stability to shoot on the run.
Also, did you know that Iowa cannot shoot while moving

[frigid karma]

There is a uss Nixon, but she’s been subject to a

A

A cover up

[unborn wyvern]

lmao

we should just Rename USS John C. Stennis and then gaslight everybody into beliving it was USS Nixon the entire time and always was

[spiral cedar]

The Yamato needed speed to maneuver because of the way the rudders were orientated.

To turn, you must have speed

Astounding

[frigid karma]

This is unlike superior Russian monitors

Which are round

And do not require speed to turn on the spot

[unborn wyvern]

Glorious soviet Monitors (with T-34 turret) can use the power of the ghost of Mikhail Koshkin to turn on a dime! any and all evidence to the contrarity is captialist western propaganda

[spiral cedar]

Wait…

Okay

Who copied who

Man, imagine wasting 20 years of your life like that

Couldn’t be me

Guns. The Bismarcks guns were of a high velocity design firing an 830kg shell at nearly 3000fps making them arguably the most powerful 15″ guns ever mounted on a battleship.

Eh, what’s a few hundred extra fps here and there? No one will notice

[frigid karma]

Ok iirc

Didn’t Bismarck’s turtleback armor lower the displacement of the citadel

To the point where citadel penetrations weren’t even needed to sink the ship

So you could actually sink a Bismarck, with cruiser guns

[tough quail]

"arguably" if you're a lobotomite

cue the french and italians laughing in actual competent naval design

[desert agate]

Assuming the French can hit anything

[frigid karma]

Assuming the Italians can sortie anything

[alpine onyx]

I'd argue that Suriago Strait was won by the destroyers and PT boats before the US battleline fired even one salvo, but that the fattleships managed to steal most of the credit

[spiral cedar]

The PT boats perhaps not, but yes, the DDs did the bulk of the damage

However, the battleline nevertheless presented the main tactical obstacle preventing the Japanese from just eating the losses and bulldozing through the strait past the DDs

[alpine onyx]

I forgot who sank Fusou, so just included them all

And Yamashiro was like half dead when the battleline opened fire

[spiral cedar]

Both sank to DD torps primarily, though Yammy ate a lot of gunfire too

[alpine onyx]

Yes, my point is more that the battleships take an unfair amount of credit for that victory

[junior trench]

At 03:20 explosions flashed, McDermut's torpedoes hitting three destroyers. Yamagumo sank immediately, while Michishio and Asagumo were disabled and drifting, the latter having lost her bow.

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

I will beat your ass Spon

[eternal veldt]

Think Fusou was fell by Melvin?

[spiral cedar]

Lemme check

[junior trench]

Melvin has a claim

but there were a lot of torpedoes

meanwhile McDermut with the triple strike

[spring briar]

McChad

[spiral cedar]

Tully credits Melvin for Fuso

[spring briar]

Book readin time

[ruby zinc]

thats alot of bismarck fan boi

[night heart]

hello

does anyone knows how to be a pirate here ?

i want to pirate an app

[junior trench]

not the place to ask

[spring briar]

Lol

Ayo wth Germany got Elbing in WT

[silver crest]

reading

[spring briar]

Shut

[manic latch]

Yep

[spring briar]

W

[subtle prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVCCsjS1N6Q

[unborn wyvern]

the internet has ruined me, I saw "L'EMBT" and was expecting a

[spring briar]

Oh my that is blessed

[unborn wyvern]

I love the French tradition of sticking a Auto cannon on the roof for the commander. also it looks fuckin' badass

[tough quail]

blessed fromch

now hopefully it doesn't pointlessly have some shite kraut engine

nope nevermind they downgraded the engine to the german one

motherfucker

[spring briar]

[tough quail]

hyperbar my beloved

too good for NATO

too good for this mediocre world

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

High pressure best pressure

[tough quail]

300% mad

that and the brainrot 4th crew member im praying gets axed as soon as possible aside

good content

always a shill for slapping autocannons on MBT

[shrewd pecan]

I can’t imagine it not being able to take either a French or German diesel

even the leclerc can do that

Odds are the French will adopt it with their own engine

[manic latch]

Abrams: But you need 4 for reload slave I mean faster maintenance.

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

It’s 4th crewmember

Or it’s have a entire maintenance platoon following you about

[manic latch]

One day Abrams will get autoloader and crew will be 3. Then I will see their faces

[tough quail]

i mean they already have the autoloader coming

[shrewd pecan]

Abrams had a autoloader option for awhile

[tough quail]

but this is also a topic so brain rotting i dont want to have it again

so lets talk about the super legreg some more

[shrewd pecan]

Next gen abrams we know next to nothing about so

[manic latch]

Ah Leclerc. The least known European tank after Ariete

[tough quail]

we know uh

a fair deal about it

given they did a whole presentation about it

[shrewd pecan]

Have they?

damn didn’t see anything about it

[tough quail]

did you miss the info that came with the initial renders

[manic latch]

Yes. It's Leclerc

[tough quail]

they confirmed the autoloader with the dipshit hull layout

[strong plank]

still not clear if this is something the army was asking for, or if it’s just GDLS saying “we did a thing”

[tough quail]

i mean it doesn't actually matter

[shrewd pecan]

yeah there’s still not anything really that clear on it beyond what it looks like

[manic latch]

With the arrival of larger guns. Autoloader will be necessary

[tough quail]

congress is incredibly unlikely to fund it

[shrewd pecan]

I kinda doubt considering how army tankers like to fight that they’d go with it

[strong plank]

yeah usually autoloaders have been reserved for lighter projects right?

[strong plank]

that and the stryker mgs

[shrewd pecan]

not really the autoloader more the crew less turret

[tough quail]

when literally the entire rest of the planet is moving to autoloaders its time to admit you're wrong

[manic latch]

For now Germany used the 130mm gun for Kf51. But I'm sure more new models will appear in time

[manic latch]

British with rifled guns
Americans with guy loader

[shrewd pecan]

Army tank commanders again prefer to fight head out where there able to look around

I doubt the armies next MBT won’t have a autoloader

[strong plank]

Do we know if NG Abrams uses a bustle autoloader or a carousel

[maiden citrus]

looks at other tanks lumped into this rest of the world thing

[tough quail]

at this point its

quite literally all of them

[shrewd pecan]

Chally 3 doesn’t even have a autoloader

[manic latch]

Type 10

[strong plank]

bc the bustle looks real small to fit an autoloader, and given current events I doubt anyone at GDLS believes that carousel is the way to go

[tough quail]

oh right the

worst western MBTs don't

lmfao

[manic latch]

It's a Challenger 2 with cooler turret

[maiden citrus]

both the ijn and hms are using cordite why aren't we, so lame

[tough quail]

except in this case its uh

[shrewd pecan]

And all of the western projects besides leclerc outside of Asia with auto loader are like a entire decade or two out

[unborn wyvern]

M1 THUMPER M1 THUMPER M1 THUMPER M1 THUMPER M1 THUMPER M1 THUMPER M1 THUMPER M1 THUMPER

[strong plank]

I’ll laugh my ass clean off if this whole thing turns out to be a response to the armata

[tough quail]

also the marine nationale, the kaiserliche marine, the regia marina (at least i think they're buying into the EMBT thing), the vmf, whatever the fuck china's theoretical navy in ww2 was called, also korea and india...

[strong plank]

Like

[unborn wyvern]

It is

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah piss off Rheinmetall

Bring back the 140 MM

[tough quail]

it's literally everyone but the americans and the british

and the british only because they're poor

they have built autoloaders before but just didnt have the budget

[unborn wyvern]

the EMBT was announced like the day after the Victory parade when the T-14 first appeared

[shrewd pecan]

The next gen American tank will likely have a autoloader horse

[tough quail]

im talking to maka

[strong plank]

Americans see the T-14, go ‘oh shit’, and build one that actually works

[manic latch]

130mm also not so after

[maiden citrus]

if that is the case, then hopefully when it'll be effective and fit into the puzzle of the army instead of a paper checklist for some big dude to smile at and then needing to shuffle things around because uh, reasons

[tough quail]

the french are still playing around with the 140 yeah, though it's about as likely to go anywhere as the 130 or the russian 6" meme blaster

i.e

not at all

[spring briar]

Just pray

[tough quail]

unless someone suddenly invents Armor 2: Shittribution

[shrewd pecan]

I swear the only export customer for the next gen abrams is gonna end up getting that thing turret popped worse than a T-series if that thing has a carousel loader

[maiden citrus]

they wouldn't dare

...would they

[manic latch]

Abrams already pops in Yemen. So no autoloader won't change it. Just put some APS on it

[shrewd pecan]

I mean it doesn’t turret pop outside of like IED explosions

usually it’s just blowout panels going

[manic latch]

But if they penetrate the crew side?

[shrewd pecan]

I mean if they hit the hull ammo

[tough quail]

lets please not get into an argument about how well blowout panels work

this isnt gonna go well for anyone

and is guaranteed to give me an aneurysm

[manic latch]

Ok what about Armata solution. Autoloader is carousel but crew is in their own room

[shrewd pecan]

I mean either way

[spring briar]

Not very flexible

[shrewd pecan]

Tanks combat ineffective

[maiden citrus]

[shrewd pecan]

And the crew now has to escape the exploding tank

[tough quail]

same thing with a turret blowout

[manic latch]

Losing all your ammo

Sounds similar

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah but the abrams ammo all isn’t in one place

Crew can go back to the hull ammo if the tanks still operational

[manic latch]

Ngl that's smart

[tough quail]

i dont think the tanks going to be operational

[shrewd pecan]

Again both pose a threat of the tank being burnt down

[spring briar]

France will come out with a 164mm smoothbore

You’ll see

[manic latch]

Damn

[tough quail]

bring back the 138.6mm

[shrewd pecan]

tho it all depends on how the hit goes down

A T-14 being ammo rack and the turret going flying off to space is probably not gonna be too good for the crew especially if the tank catches fire towards the crew compartment

[manic latch]

But if fire doesn't reach. Can they still drive the hull back

[shrewd pecan]

No

[manic latch]

So it's a focus for crew safety only

[shrewd pecan]

If your being carousel ammo racked

Odds are the engines going with the turret

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

both of them are going to be knocked out

the blowout panels aren't magical miracle equipment

your tanks getting deepfried either way

[shrewd pecan]

I never denied a blowout panel going won’t potentially fuck the engine as well

[maiden citrus]

[rebuttal expunged]

[shrewd pecan]

again if this was above the engine it won’t be having a fun time

[tough quail]

though i do wonder if you could engineer a similar thing for the carousel

[manic latch]

Wait what is the main purposes of blowout

1. giving tank chance to continue fighting by using hull ammo?
2. saving the crew by giving them chance to escape?

[tough quail]

given the one on a T-14 is kind of teeny (and not really a carousel anymore in the sense of how it got its name)

and the turret is tiny above it

[tough quail]

the latter

[manic latch]

What if you cover Carousel with composite armor.

[tough quail]

i really want to see a T-14 next to an MBT-70

turret scale at 0 to turret scale at 100

[tough quail]

would need a landship for the required space

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

wait no

fuck

it's brilliant

we have to combine the dumbest traits of both the east and the west

take this

put the autoloader in the hull

and when it takes a hit and pops

the turret becomes an emergency escape pod for the crew

👏

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

tank warfare revolutionized

give me my fucking money tank manufacturers

[maiden citrus]

just have the turret be the projectile, pop your own turret at the enemy and kill them, tanks can just be multilayered turret stacks

[tough quail]

just do it like mario odyssey

[maiden citrus]

what armor is going to protect you from a 15 ton turret on fire coming your way at mach 2

[tough quail]

hurl your turret around to consume enemy tanks

rinse and repeat

[manic latch]

Man tanks are flawed despite being decades old

[shrewd pecan]

unmanned tank

Turn the turret into its own loitering munition

[maiden citrus]

it's a missile tank but not what you think

[tough quail]

all military equipment is

nothing is invulnerable

[shrewd pecan]

everything is a compromise to achieve a requirement

[maiden citrus]

drone tanks that are just fireships

warfare has changed

[manic latch]

Wiesels but drones

Spam them

Like 20 Wiesel with atgm against 2 Abrams

[shrewd pecan]

I mean that’s when you just

Smack a EW system on the abrams

[manic latch]

but as a trick. Some of the wiesels will be manned ones. So you won't know which ones are drones or human

[maiden citrus]

machine gun drone but when it is compromised it flings the machine gun off itself like a t series and into the enemy, where it explodes

[shrewd pecan]

ok I will 50 cal all of the wiesels

[maiden citrus]

even in death it cannot be stopped

[manic latch]

[tough quail]

just replace drones with those like

weird floating platforms the us tried for scouting

and just put a dude with an atgm launcher on it

[maiden citrus]

just get enough and put the entire tank on it, the treads are just magnets

[shrewd pecan]

so switchblade 600 regarding the drone thing

[maiden citrus]

every vehicle, a switchblade helicarrier

nowhere is safe

[tough quail]

yeah those

[manic latch]

shoots atgm

hits rotor

[manic latch]

Speaking of drones

I like how you can use scout drones in War thunder to take down helis

Just ram into their blades

[shrewd pecan]

Anything can be a loitering munitions if you try hard enough

This is why I will camp the point in my HSTV-L and kill KA-50s with my drones

[maiden citrus]

there were a few cases of planes cutting up enemy plane tails/wings with their propellors after they ran out of ammo iirc

[manic latch]

And they are small af so it will be hard to hit them

And currently radars can't see them

[shrewd pecan]

I mean again

Free kills for the ADATs

Especially now that there’s two more Russian attackers to shoot down

[manic latch]

In the early stages of World War II the tactic was employed by Soviet pilots, who called it taran, the Russian word for "battering ram".

Aleksei Khlobystov hero of the Soviet Union who committed 3 aerial rammings

[manic latch]

Yeah SU25s will be popular for a while

[maiden citrus]

you see the ideal james bond weapon is a puller plane that can deploy a push prop when a button is pushed, so when someone is tailing you you just slow down and blender them

[manic latch]

Yekaterina Zelenko on 12 September 1941 supposedly performed a diving ramming attack in her Su-2, which tore a Messerschmitt Bf 109 in two as the propeller of her plane hit the German aircraft's tail. She remains the only woman ever alleged to have performed an aerial ramming

[maiden citrus]

her record is safe as long as I'm not in the air force

[strong plank]

these?

the 1950s were such a weird time for the US Army

[spring briar]

Leave this sort of stuff for france

[maiden citrus]

cyberpunk 2077

[tough quail]

for everyone alive

[tender monolith]

Bring 👏 back 👏 Davey 👏 Crocketts 👏

the dumbest nuclear weapon

[manic latch]

Goddamn I forgot

Italy also got Da Verazzano in WT

[spring briar]

Where MN

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

But good thing Rich

Protection analysis is also coming to navy and planes

So you can now see how shells react to ship's armor

Guess in time you can test Bismarck AP against Rich's armor

[spring briar]

End me

Or give me bote

[manic latch]

[spring briar]

I lie here

Dying

[manic latch]

I will watch over it

[spring briar]

Will they implement differences in shells and armor

[manic latch]

Will see

It's in public testing now

It shows the armor penetration then does it hurt the interior etc

[spring briar]

Wasn’t that already a thing?

[manic latch]

Only for tanks

[frigid karma]

This looks like an alcoholic bastard of the mbt-70 and the chieftain

[tough quail]

alcoholic post-retirement mbt-70

[spring briar]

Mbt-70 apfsds but longer

[tough quail]

longest of dongs

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

Very pretty

[manic latch]

Elbing was ordered by the Imperial Russian Navy as Admiral Nevelskoy from the Schichau-Werke shipyard in Danzig. She was laid down in 1913, requisitioned by the German Navy on 5 August 1914, and was renamed Elbing. She was launched on 21 November 1914, after which fitting-out work commenced. She was commissioned into the High Seas Fleet on 4 September 1915

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Tell me Rich

Did French ever experienced something similar

Where the ship they ordered gets yoinked

[spring briar]

No not really
Maybe that order for USN dds

But that was bc of the fall

[rapid junco]

40 pound depth charges from WWI

Sometimes for me
It's kind of "mind-blowing" (no pun intended) to think that depth charges went from 40 lbs. to 300 lbs. from WWI to WWII

[heavy bay]

[spring briar]

[frigid karma]

you have better odds shoving a sailor overboard with a limpet charge and a snorkel

[lament cliff]

Anyone been to the US Navy Museum in Washington Navy Yard? Pretty sweet

[spring briar]

Where MN

[maiden citrus]

very cool

[lament cliff]

Allen M. Sumner bisection, showing various compartments and machinery

[spring briar]

Love the boiler tubes

[lament cliff]

Twin 5" gun from USS Reno

[spring briar]

Oh neat

[lament cliff]

Ok, last one for now. That one torpedo that didn't work

[maiden citrus]

[spring briar]

[fierce sparrow]

[unborn wyvern]

Sounds about right for early war American torpedos

[strong plank]

They’re building a new one iirc

like a permanent museum

[tired flower]

The first action of the F-14a Tomcat in Vietnam War

[jovial elm]

Fun fact: Nigeria rates their new T72Ms as less reliable on the battlefield than their Vikkers MK3's

[shrewd pecan]

I mean

there old T-72M1s

that were bought from the Czechs as a emergency purchase

[desert agate]

Yeah I'd rate emergency T-72s as being rather less capable than uh... basically anything that can drive and shoot reliably

The words emergency T-72 purchase do not fill me with confidence as to their capabilities

[dapper parcel]

Is this even something shocking?
Vickers Mk3 isn't just some random half assed design, it's based off proven techs.

Especially since it got the DD-71

[spring briar]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gwin_(DD-71)

[maiden citrus]

based

[spring briar]

Commissioned for … 2 years

[manic latch]

Please Gaijin

S-67 Blackhawk

Closest thing West had as Hind equal

Attack helicopter and can transport troops

Only 1 was build Destroyed in 1974 crash

[gilded girder]

Gaijin be like: Event Vehicle

[manic latch]

Likely

Prototype vehicles usually turn into event stuff

[spring briar]

Where MN

[jovial elm]

Lynx???

Troop transport, decent carry load and scary fast

My big: Gaijin whens are the tornado F3 and a version of the buccaneer with decent loadouts

[jovial elm]

The vikkers mk3 were gained in 1981.. so they are older than the t72s they have bought

[manic latch]

I mean then Black Hawk is also since she can carry atgms too

What I mean as something that was designed from base to be gunship and transport. Having Attack/assault helicopter as role like S-67 and Hind

[spring briar]

Holy mother of god

[humble mulch]

What the

[eternal veldt]

Richelieu my man, you clearly haven't seen what happened to Nelson in another game.

[spring briar]

Oh?

Also call me DP

[eternal veldt]

DP?

Gaze upon true despair

[spring briar]

https://tenor.com/view/you-wouldnt-get-it-joker-smoking-gif-15952801

[eternal veldt]

[spring briar]

Ew

[spring briar]

Hate the ship even more now

[ivory ridge]

[dapper parcel]

the power of H E X A G O N

[eternal veldt]

no no no, this is the perfect skin

**j u n k **, just like her

[spring briar]

[dusty kraken]

massive radar arrays you got there

[manic latch]

@spring briar
So uhh

Why scrap Jean Bart in 1970

[spring briar]

BB’s are obsolete

And De Gaulle’s presidency ended in 1969

[manic latch]

[manic latch]

If only Project 24 existed

Could have prevented loss of Vang and Jean

[exotic scarab]

Reminds me of something I heard from some company making sail boats

And calling it a new idea

[shrewd pecan]

Wasn’t Jean Bart also in rough shape

[spring briar]

JB was commissioned in 55’

Then took part in the Suez crisis of ‘56

Then was decommissioned in ‘57

And she was in pretty rough shape for what was basically a ship under construction when she was moved out of France

And who also took part in a battle

And was partially canibalised for spare parts to use on Richie

[maiden citrus]

she limit broke rich

[spring briar]

Something USN BB’s are all too familiar with

[manic latch]

True

War thunder Drones gave me idea

What if this for naval. But unique to Japan only

You can't research it, it only appears in battle with points

Similar to drones

Then you ram into enemy ship going at 930-1000km/h carrying 1200kg warhead

This thing can also be good UR in AL as well

[tough quail]

probably about as likely as them putting an oplot in the soviet tree this year

[manic latch]

Especially after brand new T-80UK? Hah

[tough quail]

that's uh

not the real consideration there

would be a political shitfest for both is what i mean

[manic latch]

True

[shrewd pecan]

I feel like if the soviets gained a adequate battleship threat it would of likely prolonged the service life of most of the western battleships

tho I only can see that resulting in Western versions of the Soviet anti missile doctrine

with the western powers likely favoring larger missiles able to defeat battleship armor (think western P-500s)

[manic latch]

Well main reason of Project 24 in 1950s was the assumption of West going with BBs (2 Iowa under construction, Jean Bart getting better stuff, Vanguard still around)

So 2 Project 24 was going to be laid down in 1955

If West heard this. I do think they would keep their BBs more

[shrewd pecan]

I kinda doubt Kentucky and illionis would of been completed unless the Soviet battleship fleet was large enough to justify it

[manic latch]

2 Project 24 and maybe 1 Soyuz class.
Yeah I don't think so

[shrewd pecan]

there's not really much of a point in battleships unless there's other battleships to fight

[manic latch]

Ye. 24 designed against Iowas
Which stayed for a long long time

[shrewd pecan]

Iowa's spent most of their post war careers in and out of mothball until the 80s

in the 80s they were glorified naval fires support for ground forces

[manic latch]

And Korean War in 1950s

@shrewd pecan would this work against H class

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VB-6_Felix

[tough quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213011911002816513/1016407498216972358/unknown.png

loud screaming

[manic latch]

A naval version of the Felix, the ASM-N-4 Dove, was approved in 1944; in 1946 the project was transferred to Eastman Kodak, and in 1949 a contract for 20 prototype weapons was issued. Dove's infrared seeker was expected to be capable of correcting 400-metre (1,300 ft) aiming errors; trials took place through 1952, but no production was undertaken

[shrewd pecan]

POLAND MAXING

[manic latch]

Ah PL-01

[tough quail]

we cant do this again

not again

not like this

[manic latch]

How to be next gen tank

1. Have cool looking lights in front of hull
2. have smooth edges
3. cover the barrel with something even if it's a plastic cube
4. some cool looking muzzle attachment
5. mini drone or long antenna

[frigid karma]

tanki online moment

i remember those days

[ivory ridge]

How to be a next gen tank in 2022

muh drone operator in the vehicle

[manic latch]

Truuu

Current Next gens

Japan

[ivory ridge]

"decisive lethality"

[manic latch]

Decisive Lethality Platform (DLP), the replacement for the M1 Abrams main battle tank.

[ivory ridge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/863493888358088725/1013497757446709340/murmdoubt.gif

[tough quail]

centauro 3 with a bunch of ballistic vests strapped to the front to replace the ariete

[hushed saffron]

Ah yes

another T-62.

[spring briar]

Legend says that my sanity is located on oak island

[rapid junco]

The return of the Foch

[spring briar]

Yabe?

[rapid junco]

She'll be returning to Brazil

[spring briar]

Museum

[rapid junco]

We hope so

🤞

[ivory ridge]

based

[spring briar]

Undy

No

[ivory ridge]

[spring briar]

Ariete best pen in wt

[ivory ridge]

lol

lmao

it hasnt been in ages

[spring briar]

And somehow dante too

Oh

[ivory ridge]

both because they released stronger shit

[spring briar]

Kronshtadt

[ivory ridge]

and because they nerfed it

[spring briar]

Well thats disappointing

[ivory ridge]

went from 625 to 589mm

[spring briar]

Why

[ivory ridge]

so now DM53, the american round, the type 10 round (called type 10), the top merkava 4 round and the same round as the ariete but fired from the cv90120 have more pen

actually, the old abrams round has more pen as well

i think the old is 598 and the new over 620

and not the strv122 received the same round as the ariete as well

while having the best armor in the game

[spring briar]

What about leclerc round

[shrewd pecan]

strv-122 supremacy

(mainly because there's no HEAT stock grind)

[ivory ridge]

still a pretty old one but around 580mm as well i think

575

OFL 120 F1

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Oh gawd

Gaijin is making Challengers heavier

[tough quail]

c h o n k

[ivory ridge]

only the 2F it seems

[manic latch]

But rest still got the armor buff to turret no?

Ok Naval fixes are nice

37-47mm AA AI will not shoot destroyers

100-155mm AI will shoot BCs and BBs

AI attack range for 100-140mm is 15km instead 10km

For 150-155mm, 20km instead 12

For Ansaldo 120/50 mod.36 APHEBC

Fuse delay is 0.005>0.025

And more Shrapnel

Also for APHE as well

And SAP

Italy Navy getting some love here

[spring briar]

[manic latch]

Also German 283mm SAP shell now fuse on water

[loud comet]

Any BBs that historically have good AA and have shot down many aircrafts, but besides US BBs?

[tough quail]

not really, no

british BBs that i can think of only really came under mass air attack (outside of dumb glide bomb shenanigans like warspite) in the very early war when everyone in the world had fuck awful anti-air

the french couldnlt really continue AA development under occupation so were also stuck with early war AA (and what they had sucked)

and italian/german BBs were just fuck awful in this regard

i guess the ganguts technically might have just due to sheer duration under air attack

[alpine onyx]

Tirpitz should've racked up a good number of plane kills, by virtue of having been subjected to like two dozen air raids

Too bad that her medium AA sucked

[frigid karma]

the only two nations with decent AA on their BBs were the US/Royal Navy

[alpine onyx]

If normalized for their tonnage the German pre-dreads should be looking good in their final fit

Six 105s, 9-11 40mm and 22 20mm on a 13,000 ton battleship

[cinder escarp]

The IJN BBs should have gotten plenty of plane scores

[desert agate]

Alas their fire control was whack

[cinder escarp]

And uh, often poor choice of guns, although they didn't want for quantity

[eternal veldt]

25mm jams and dies

[alpine onyx]

Still considered "satisfactory"

[spring briar]

[spring briar]

[alpine onyx]

Praising on a low level

[cinder escarp]

If they had actually developed a belt feed and belt for the 25mm it wouldn't be half bad

The round is fine, the ballistics are fine, mechanics are fine, RoF is a bit slow but still serviceable...

[eternal veldt]

Fire control as mentioned was still pretty shit though

something something, guy with a stick

[cinder escarp]

And even had they decent FCS, and solved the feed - the mounts were all slow

[alpine onyx]

Well... the Japanese even gave a bucket list of issues with that gun, with rating on how bad each issue was

And the magazines rated only fourth, behind excessive muzzle flash, excessive vibration and slow mounts

So I wouldn't say that just fixing the ammo feed would turn it into a decent weapon, it needs some more

A 20mm gun would've probably been more useful to them, since then it would at least be feasible to rely more on muscle-powered mounts

[manic latch]

@spring briar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Yourkevich

[manic latch]

He was also the one of the main designer of Izmail sisters