gameplay-help

[sweet delta]

We watch Azur lane meta data mine evaluations

[barren tapir]

then what exactly do you suggest

[storm heron]

as long you keep the sample with large reconnaisance fleet it should be okay

[viscid swift]

god, what did he say this time

[storm heron]

unless there's a mechanic like wichita meta or bayard

[barren tapir]

also is it really worse than randomly t2ing a ship without testing her

anyway its fine i was just asking since i happen to be doing ch13 lethal rn

[rigid onyx]

Haven't you admitted you leveled her for design reasons not strength

[viscid swift]

well, Scylla was T2 for a while until they got around to moving her out of prelim

[barren tapir]

nana is quite literally one of my strongest vg ships lol. the fact i like her shouldnt be relevant

[sweet delta]

No idea, i never watched

[inland shoal]

Nah nah it is

[nimble knoll]

What's the advance challenges for the event for?

[stark quiver]

more rewrards

[barren tapir]

for example reasons i picked her for ch13 mob: high mob damage, especially against heavy (command boat). high durability, enough to off-tank. high sustained damage (good damage uptime)

[inland shoal]

Are comments like these rly necessary?
Unless this is just about god then pls keep religion away

[rigid onyx]

cant tell if sarcasm unfortunately

[inland shoal]

I don't see how this is of any relevance to absolutely anything

[viscid swift]

uhhh, I didn't mean it in a religious sense but noted

[barren tapir]

so if i like a ship she must be bad

i like amagi, you gonna say shes bad and only levelled for design reasons now?

or unicorn, or aquila, or even rumey

[rigid onyx]

you bring up the fact that you think that she's undertiered like once a week, ask in ectl not here

i also misinterpreted your original comment

[barren tapir]

bruh i was literally just asking about testing cos i happen to be doing lethal ch13 rn, it's not that deep

[inland shoal]

Iirc you gotta do a ertain amount of modifiers / hit a certain threshold with your selections and then win one time to get some minor extra rewards

[stark quiver]

just 3 ca ch13 🧠

[sharp socket]

is 318 contribution highest for EX

[barren tapir]

a simple yes/no would suffice anyhow

[inland shoal]

Sounds about right without bugs

[viscid swift]

well the way ECTL primarily tests stuff is they'll have a control fleet consisting of 5 other not particularly remarkable ships in W12 with the ship they're testing being the variable

looking at clear times and such to partly inform their tiering decisions

[inland shoal]

Tbh w13 is kinda big in AA I don't rly trust endscreens much with AA involved

[viscid swift]

yeah, that's why just looking at endscreen results in AA heavy environments doesn't really help

[barren tapir]

yeah that is fair

[viscid swift]

yes Nana doesn't have good AA but the distribution is all sorts of weird and can skew results quite heavily

[rigid onyx]

To get a good test you need to have decent control variables otherwise you just pollute data

[barren tapir]

makes sense, i mostly figured safe testing wouldnt provide relevant results

[rigid onyx]

safe testing is fine, safe testing for mechanics in a world is not. I.E. seeing wyverns vs spearfish performance in w15, safe testing is worthless.

[rigid onyx]

You can use safe testing to look at clear times reasonably, even though lethal is preferred iirc

[viscid swift]

like I said though, I wouldn't put too much stock into ECTL prelim tierings, especially since they won't change them in this phase

[humble summit]

my ships rn

[viscid swift]

after they go out of prelim is when you'll get a better chance at contesting it

[stark quiver]

im not in any way against ectl but.....
just dont use ectl 🧠

[viscid swift]

or that

[undone plover]

I am actually curious about testing myself
i have read here that practical testing is much more reliable than theoretical calcs which sure makes sense
but how can u control for rng and elminate synergy biases
especially for multitarget and multi wave testing
what is actually wrong with theoretical calcs for most ships

[turbid marsh]

who is ectl?

[barren tapir]

probably by running 1000 trials to reduce variation effect on result

[late flame]

https://slaimuda.github.io/ectl/#/home

[storm heron]

en community tierlist

[rigid onyx]

AA, for example, is impossible to properly calc, so you literally can only test

[viscid swift]

you can't really is the issue

because especially in more relevant content you won't not be making use of synergies and such usually

[barren tapir]

some artifacts will always exist in live data but the more decently sourced data there is you can pick out patterns probably

[inland shoal]

Synergy effects is basically impossible to account for both in practical tests as well as in calcs

[viscid swift]

it moreso just comes down to just using the ship a lot in different content and you'll get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses

[barren tapir]

but yeah theres also the issue of a tierlist rates (or tries to rate) a ship by solo performance but outside niche farming shit nobody uses a ship by itself

[glacial widget]

what are you supposed to do after you run out of reward runs and complete the ex?

[undone plover]

yeah that is kind of my point
u would need to test practically with every possible synergy
otherwise it is not really much better than the paper calcs

[viscid swift]

solo means no specific pairings and such, not like a 1:1 fleet

[barren tapir]

but also trying to tier a ship based on full fleet performance runs into the issue of a billion fleet combos

[barren tapir]

but synergy doesnt just exist within ship skills or obvious pairs

[turbid marsh]

oh i ve seen this tierlist before.... its useful but also its pretty vague... (might as well ask here on general performance of a ship.)

[viscid swift]

they're considered in the context of a full fleet but not one that specifically caters to different strengths and such

[barren tapir]

synergy can be as simple as one ship naturally covering for another's weaknesses

this happens all the time when properly building fleets

[inland shoal]

Hmm yes?
But in the end if it synergises well with what you would reasonably use it with and sucks with everything else, how do you grade that?
Paper calcs are just bad at least I'm not aware of any that take staggering into account well

[viscid swift]

a good example of this would be Kazagumo

[undone plover]

yeah I moreso mean stuff shooting at the same time (and therefore shooting at water)
or position affecting dps
or just rng favoring certain things

[viscid swift]

Kazagumo is one of the most used ships in IJN CV fleets because of her synergy

[barren tapir]

a lot of synergy just happens by default

[viscid swift]

but, consider her not in such a fleet, like in a regular mid game fleet pushing campaign

suddenly she doesn't stand out quite as much

[barren tapir]

she'd be worse in there yes, however her ranking would still vary imo, cos she'd have synergy by default as long as there's any cvs at all

[viscid swift]

I'm not saying it wouldn't vary

[barren tapir]

additionally if she helps to cover for anti-heavy damage letting you bring more medium/light armor damage ships that is also a kind of synergy

[viscid swift]

uhhh

[barren tapir]

fleets by default to me will have a lot of variance

[viscid swift]

doesn't quite work like that

[barren tapir]

especially for campaign where you want a fleet generally good against every enemy you'd face in that specific map

[humble summit]

anything i shud improve on

[inland shoal]

I mean I wouldn't wanna rely on a single ship's torps to wipe out heavy enemies

[barren tapir]

not what i mean exactly

[undone plover]

I guess my point was I see no reason to trust sth like plymouth dps calc any less than actual proper testing
since u can never tell what the testing parameters are/were
or control for much
the practical test at the end of the day is only actually valid for that specific comp in that specific fight/stage
unless I am missing sth
ofc I dont mean all practical test is useless
there are bugs and other things not obvious from paper calcs

[barren tapir]

no ship is doing smth solo like that, but i mean she contributes to it. for example, a big reason i pick nana currently is because shes a good counter for command ships with her consistent spammable anti-heavy damage and im watching these battles and it plays out the way i planned

[viscid swift]

the issue with paper calcs is that they're usually assuming hyper unrealistic ideal scenarios

[rigid onyx]

I mean paper calcs are a useful tool, but controlled in-game tests with a decent sample size are the gold standard

[barren tapir]

i feel like good fleetbuilding looks at how 6 ships perform together as a synergistic unit

[undone plover]

can I get a few examples cheeky
I actually dont know how sth like vanguard dps is theorized

[barren tapir]

and tier list is more about what each ship individually brings to a generic, undefined full fleet, which is not as helpful

[rigid onyx]

compositional fleetbuilding is a large part of the game yes, which is why any tier list isn't complete

[viscid swift]

I don't remember off the top of my head actually what CN paper calcs assume but

but to give you a few potential examples, stationary non moving enemies and everything hits and does max damage

[undone plover]

tbf tier list is another can of worms
IMO stuff should be tiered according to its role and vs specific content but that is an argument for another time

[barren tapir]

which is why i dont listen to any tierlist as anything beyond cursory guidance

[rigid onyx]

the only 'proper' way to tier by that logic would be to take all 612C6 ship compositions and tier each, but obviously tier lists have a use

[stark quiver]

what is gph arguing about this time

[barren tapir]

idk

[inland shoal]

I'm saying the calc can be valid for nothing
Imagine a ship that has uber insane dps, but it always fires a beat after your other ships. It will just be bad cuz it'll fire at water most of the time while other times you would like some dmg but it doesn't fire
I don't remember what the ships and contexts were exactly but I remember 2 ships being compared and one did a decent bit more dmg than the other but the other resulted in faster clear times

[inland shoal]

Someone help this poor guy lest he get buried. For me the images don't load

[viscid swift]

well for what content are these fleets for

[rigid onyx]

asking for nonspecific advice with l120 ships is bound to get buried

[barren tapir]

what's this for

[undone plover]

but then wouldnt that be invalid only in that certain scenario? if u run ship A in your example with ship C who is slower doesnt the dps become more "real"?

[humble summit]

general world clear

[stark quiver]

bro said general

[barren tapir]

make a thread for ch14-15 or something for more specific help

[sharp socket]

whenever i hear general i assume w12 and below, it helps alot

[viscid swift]

which stage exactly

[humble summit]

uh idk cuz um i dont change up gear or smt like if its there its here (no game knowledge)

[humble summit]

w13 for now

[barren tapir]

but wouldnt make sense with his ships, that would stomp everything

[turbid marsh]

make a thread and post your ships there, and one of them will help with you fleet building and recommendations.

[inland shoal]

I mean sure. But the paper calc just doesn't answer the question whether a situation where it can make most of its dps exists at all

[viscid swift]

would you uhh show all of your SRs and URs, and in a thread

[barren tapir]

pick generically good ships with aa carry in each fleet and done

thats what im doing

[viscid swift]

I think he'll just be dead to planes with that many BBs

[undone plover]

~~we just need better paper calcs ~~
anyway thanks

[inland shoal]

Btw I'm not against calcs don't get me wrong, I just don't think they're any more "true" than actual tests

[barren tapir]

pick generically good cvs, my bad LOL

[humble summit]

ok

[viscid swift]

yeah that's the issue, they really don't have a lot of good CVs leveled

[rigid onyx]

1 bb 2 cv mob is fine with the quality of ships he has leveled

[barren tapir]

but yeah im not serious definitely make thread and show options

[undone plover]

no that is fine
but what I was trying to get at is I dont think practical tests are any truer unless for that specific fight that it was tested in

[rigid onyx]

he has a shinano, fritz, enty, and uni in his screenshots

[barren tapir]

pls tell me 13-4 is actually hard compared to early ch13 im bored

[rigid onyx]

w13 powercrept

[stark quiver]

w13 isnt hard

[hollow gust]

dont u have a fk ton of URs now too?

[viscid swift]

Shoukaku, Zuikaku, and Taiho should make you sweat a bit

[humble summit]

https://discord.com/channels/456397991847395339/1328261579489284179

[barren tapir]

i have 4, but only 3 mlb gacha ur anyway

[hollow gust]

cool u have ships that makes anything under 14 trivial

[barren tapir]

yay

[inland shoal]

I mean 13-4 is a decent bit harder than 13-1 but it's still easy

[sweet delta]

Main fleet DPS assumes nonmoving boss, idk about vanguard.
Expected damage, not max damage.
Barrages and probably guns have physical hit rates

I remember a lot of boomers had trouble with 13H

and then 15 dropped a week later

[barren tapir]

is 13hm gonna hurt

[sweet delta]

Aren't you doing it ?

[stark quiver]

theyre doing ch13

[turbid marsh]

can't struggle with w15/13hm if i just copy paste dalao fleet XD

[sweet delta]

[stark quiver]

i never gotten S rank on my 13-4hm autos

[barren tapir]

in the process of unlocking it

[sharp socket]

i should go do 13-2h ty for reminding

[viscid swift]

skill issue

[barren tapir]

id prolly just stick to 13-1 hm need dd print anyway should be fairly doable with my ships

[stark quiver]

i stopped putting gear on my ships

[viscid swift]

yeah that would explain why

[barren tapir]

its pretty much just ch13 but higher level and acv requirement right?

[rigid onyx]

it's a bit harder than w14 imo, but technically yes, just higher reqs w13

[undone plover]

did hard mode have lethal/safe mechanic?

[sweet delta]

Still does

[viscid swift]

Even this somewhat half assed set-up does it fine

[stark quiver]

dont murmwhat me

are we looking at the top or bottom one

[sweet delta]

My shiranui somehow sometimes dies through zuihou and Aquila healing

[undone plover]

how many boxes u have now

[sweet delta]

And Eldridge

[barren tapir]

125 her

[viscid swift]

bottom one

[barren tapir]

that's half assed?

[humble summit]

thats half assed?

[sweet delta]

half of 12 rainbows assed

[humble summit]

i guess mine is trashcan

[barren tapir]

true

[stark quiver]

I run this
But imagine half the fleet doesn’t have gear

[rigid onyx]

i still need to cheese all the hard mode 3 stars for chips

[humble summit]

@barren tapir can u clear hardbiter 💀

[viscid swift]

how?

[stark quiver]

wdym how

[barren tapir]

did this month, albeit with manual

[viscid swift]

just keep them equipped

[barren tapir]

2 decent fleet and 1 halfassed fleet

[stark quiver]

oh yea i swap them a lot

[viscid swift]

even Alsace with PvP gear should manage fine

[humble summit]

dam i need to clear it this month too (last month goal) (failed)

[viscid swift]

that's all I've run her with in 13-4 H

[barren tapir]

also tbf i needed 4 radar scans so a lot of room for me to improve still also

[humble summit]

4 radar scans means?

[blissful hamlet]

Which is better vs medium La-9 or skyraider?

[barren tapir]

4 helena procs in a row

[stark quiver]

nakh was running double hvar and indep had a single wyvern and sales boosta bot

[viscid swift]

Amagi is also running a Taiho META gear set up with no passive intercept

[humble summit]

luck based?

[sharp socket]

gearlab update coming in july?

[rigid onyx]

supposedly later this month

[soft raft]

ther should be one later this month
Either next week or the week after

[barren tapir]

yes i reset until i got a favorable run for each 3 fleet, iirc-

fleet1 did 43%
fleet2 did 19%
fleet3 did 38%

by fleet2 i mean my actual fleet3 of rejects

[rigid onyx]

i remember biszwei carried light arbiters for me when my acc was dogwater

[humble summit]

i guess i would need help later on hardbiter fleets (after work) totally not slacking now

[barren tapir]

what i used in case u wonder. and i forgot to build and use any hvars

[humble summit]

what was the hvar grind for

[viscid swift]

that is a real bruh moment

[rigid onyx]

what a mob fleet

[barren tapir]

feb cm

[humble summit]

cm?

[viscid swift]

also yeah those fleets are a little cursed

[barren tapir]

fleet 3 was cringe but i couldnt find anyone better than poikai so uh.

[humble summit]

i saw a cute nagato inside

[viscid swift]

like, why didn't you swap Illustrious and Yami around

[barren tapir]

next month my fleets should be greatly improved lol

[turbid marsh]

missed eld kai?

[barren tapir]

yami wants flag

[humble summit]

ur too addicted

[barren tapir]

also the fleets ended up working in a way i could swap 100% of top gear for each fleet

[viscid swift]

not that much, plus Illustrious would have worked much better in fleet 2 than any damage loss sustained from Yami not being flag

[stark quiver]

thats like every gph goer

[viscid swift]

hey, I didn't grind my 6 HVARs in 4 days

[barren tapir]

amagi and indep took the bfgs

ofc if i remembered i had hvars youd be very correct lol

[stark quiver]

neither did i

[humble summit]

i WAS addicted, wait am i counted as addicted at this point

[stark quiver]

idk im a casual player so.......

[cobalt gate]

gear lab got updated right?

[barren tapir]

you're in here often enough to track my activity, so you're definitely addicted

[sharp socket]

my CV fleet did ~60 bars to harbiter last time, i expect with hvars itll be equal or worse because there were 2x +13 bfgs

[humble summit]

why do u make me sound like a stalker

[rigid onyx]

+13 bfgs = +10 hvar on light

[barren tapir]

just +13 a couple hvars np np

[sharp socket]

gotta wait till i get nakhi to make super light CV

[viscid swift]

you don't need Nahkimov for that

[rigid onyx]

i think that kear/yorkii/fritz is best if you dont have high tech, and if you dont need the stop

or just BBs

[undone plover]

wait for next META showdown before u +13 HVARs I think
if u are low on plates

[stark quiver]

i used nakh, soy, amagicv, with anti med setup and it one shot w/o helena, ez

[barren tapir]

there's always feb cm tho

[viscid swift]

watch it be another heavy armor META

[stark quiver]

worry too much about small gamemode la~

[barren tapir]

depends on ur plate income but i feel 1 or 2 hvars is pretty safe

[rigid onyx]

i've never touched cm

[humble summit]

whats cm

[viscid swift]

challenge mode

[barren tapir]

challenge mode, it's pretty fun

[rigid onyx]

challenge mode; gives you vanity items

[humble summit]

basically cosmetics?

[sharp socket]

i want medium armor meta so i can not use my hvars and BB it to death

[barren tapir]

i like the problem solving aspect of doing it on a weaker account

[undone plover]

is there a CM that actually needs +13 gear

[stark quiver]

no cm easy

[viscid swift]

uhh, Helena

[cobalt gate]

good 15-1 lvling main fleet?

[barren tapir]

not unless you lack ships

[stark quiver]

what no

[humble summit]

is there any benefits on your progress for CM?

[stark quiver]

no
it gives you nothing but a portrait frame

[barren tapir]

tho you end up using stuff you +13ed for other things anyway

[sharp socket]

absolutely none

[viscid swift]

that said I don't remember what Yukikaze fleets looked like

[barren tapir]

it's just for challenging yourself

[turbid marsh]

how come you guys understood what he meant? idk what good 15-1 lvling main fleet is

[stark quiver]

something like soy, shinano, haku

[barren tapir]

but isnt she light

[viscid swift]

when you do this long enough it just kinda becomes instinctive understanding broken sentences like that

[stark quiver]

i saw it as is 15-1 good for leveling main fleet, in which the answer is no

[viscid swift]

like, 15-1 and leveling main fleets

[undone plover]

I didnt tbh
I assume he is asking which 3 ships to use in main fleet to level vanguards but I am not sure

[spark ridge]

How does fushun compare to the other DDG, or we won’t know for a week? Or are all the ddg basically the same

[viscid swift]

probably asking about if 15-1 is good for leveling main fleets

[undone plover]

oh looks like I misinterpreted then

[cobalt gate]

no i mean i'm lvling vanguard and would like to know a good mainfleet combo

[stark quiver]

~~also 2 movers ~~

[barren tapir]

top solo, just behind tai yuan in full fleet

[sharp socket]

sushi uni aquila and an AA carry should work i think

[viscid swift]

well know one can finish her retrofit for a week and it'll take another few days to max out her new skill

[stark quiver]

oh fuck

[viscid swift]

but paper math says she's slightly better than Tai Yuan

[sharp socket]

leveling 3 vg in 15-1 is kinda sus

[barren tapir]

this is based on prelim/paper calc only tho so take w grain of salts

[undone plover]

musashi and unicorn carry most things
idk if u can level another backline with them but if u are done just slap another healer I think
volga/aquila maybe?

[spark ridge]

Is tai yuan the current best ddg?

[humble summit]

wake me up when shes worth enough to retro 💀

[sharp socket]

actually just leveling altogether in w15 is kinda sus

[humble summit]

MOAR FLEETSSSSS

[viscid swift]

that is good enough to retro lamo

[undone plover]

well if u lack chips

[barren tapir]

i believe so yes unless making good use of an shans armor break

[viscid swift]

Tai Yan already beats Hindenburg against light armor

[humble summit]

so i could have started now?

[sharp socket]

go do 14-1 or something if you want chips and/or cmdr level

[cobalt gate]

i've been using musashi or kearsarge, but don't know if anything performs better like should i just go 3 healers?

[viscid swift]

and she's DD FP tech anyway

[stark quiver]

is that for 15-1

[cobalt gate]

yeah

[turbid marsh]

its doable..... there is luna fleet, sashi/zwei fleet and stuff. BUT need to be like lv110. and high tech, good cat.

[stark quiver]

youre gonna die

[humble summit]

if i have extra resources, i shud do now?

[turbid marsh]

aint gonna work if its that

[barren tapir]

this looks pretty yike

[viscid swift]

if you're lacking good vanguards absolutely

[cobalt gate]

it works like 50 percent of the time

[humble summit]

ill come back to u once i finish my daily opsi i forgot to do

[slow fox]

it exists

[stark quiver]

that means the other 50 youre losing xp and oil

[humble summit]

uh based on the thread am i lacking vandguard

[viscid swift]

50% is not good for a farming fleet

[cobalt gate]

other 50 i have to change vanguard

[undone plover]

kearsarge cant rly work as solo mob "BB" in ch15
not sure if safe threat makes it possible but if u are using weak frontlines then that is a dead backline I think
Just run the Queen

[barren tapir]

non-reward run?

[stark quiver]

100% or bust

[viscid swift]

Fu Shun would fill a hole in your roster yes

[barren tapir]

i refuse to believe

[humble summit]

ok on it rn after opsi

[sharp socket]

wait you guys don't know that washing machine drops in hard raid?

[viscid swift]

well that was a non boosted run

[barren tapir]

i know it does but i believe it to be a lie because rng hate me

[undone plover]

they know
just low rates so joking

[cobalt gate]

hmm back to musashi then?

[humble summit]

btw how do i get the retro item, is it free?

[undone plover]

should have never left

[viscid swift]

this is what we call being smug

[barren tapir]

7 days event yes wait for it

[cobalt gate]

it kinda feels like they are about the same to be honest, gets torpedoed

[humble summit]

ok

[undone plover]

the frontline u mean?

[cobalt gate]

yeah

[undone plover]

I think u need to run a "carry" in frontline
eldridge should work

[rigid onyx]

you could probably save mushashi for her xfleet 🤔

[stark quiver]

thats a bad idea

[sharp socket]

sushi is best in mob w15

[undone plover]

just to be clear this is for safe 15-1 farming right?
not first clear?

[cobalt gate]

yeah

[viscid swift]

if you're out of main fleets to level I'd honestley just stay in W12 and start cooking a set up to gurantee MvP for the vanguard

[humble summit]

im ready to say goodbye to my resource, hope it doesnt need ur gear

[cobalt gate]

this is horrible if i was doing 1st clear

[undone plover]

well I assume his issue is cog chips

[stark quiver]

just run one plane per cv 🧠

[undone plover]

more xp wont rly help

[slow fox]

Yep. No reward tokens used.

[barren tapir]

yeah im not falling for it \ gratz tho

[cobalt gate]

man it feels like evasion does nothing for torpedoes some times

[sharp socket]

is hwah jah cvl rld or cv rld

[rigid onyx]

If gatekept by cog chips for vanguard you could just do the classic 4 ship core of uni/musashi/aquilla + carry vg / blank / blank

stack crossfleet and get air supremacy on fleet 2

[barren tapir]

evasion is chance based get luckier

[sweet delta]

That's correct, evasion is hit or miss, literally

[spring bolt]

why is everyone surprised about 15-1 farming? it has been a thing for almost a year...

[viscid swift]

both

[stark quiver]

cuz that fleet has a proclaimed 50% wr

[neon finch]

is +10 marco gun gun better than +13 champagne gun for this ex?

[undone plover]

tbh non MLB wichita meta just dies to a sneeze
so not really a surprise
run eldridge main tank and hope aquila/volga + uni keeps them alive

[sharp socket]

im gonna go with no

[cobalt gate]

i mean glasglow usually is the one to die

[rigid onyx]

mlb michita dies to a sneeze

[sharp socket]

definitely not if +13 champy gun

[neon finch]

alr

[cobalt gate]

do i need to get a medium hull? wichica is just bad

[spring bolt]

wait, i'm confused, 50% win rate?

[barren tapir]

yes their fleet dies half the time lol

[silk helm]

should i do PR6 or PR7 after i'm done with PR5

[viscid swift]

yep, that's the success rate that farming fleet was having

[undone plover]

it is not about hull
u are trying to raise non bulky ships (also bad dmg ships) in a really hard chapter
U need to keep them alive with better stuff
expecting to raise 3 bad vanguards in 15-1 is not realistic

[spring bolt]

[silk helm]

7 it is, thank you

[cobalt gate]

if i don't change the frontrow to balance hp on last fight

[humble summit]

im done with plymouth, doing champagn, do i do brest next or pr 7

[humble summit]

or any other ships

[barren tapir]

can you d30 brest if yes or close then can stay else pr7

[stark quiver]

who pinged me

[barren tapir]

also depends on ur plygun progress i guess

[undone plover]

I think he is asking about who to build

[silk helm]

yeah i d30 brest, but not all FATESIM5

[humble summit]

nearly 16/50

[stark quiver]

it works half the time

[rigid onyx]

personally i think that leaving pr chapters three-quarters finished is somewhat cancerous

[barren tapir]

oh well u shud stay pr5 until dev30 ply and a plygun imo

[silk helm]

i think i have 1 plygun.. cuz i've been spamming face

[humble summit]

ok

[neon finch]

also, i saw some recommendation to put the quadriple 330 on brest over guam gun, valid?

[turbid marsh]

zuihou/ryuuhou also pretty good in w15 as side healer. i think i used luna zuihou unicorn when i leveled 3cls in 15-1

[undone plover]

oh wait there is 2 ppl asking about shipyard

[spring bolt]

win rate and farming shouldn't exist in one sentence

[silk helm]

lolol

[cobalt gate]

man why does it feel like they haven't really given any equipment that makes surviability better in such a long time

[barren tapir]

what is the win rate of dropping houston2 when farming 15-4?

[rigid onyx]

because most a lot of bosses are leading away from vanguard pressure and they released eldkai

[undone plover]

They have. Her name is eldridge

[viscid swift]

or just drop back down to 12-1....

[humble summit]

eldridge good?

[barren tapir]

eldretro good

[rigid onyx]

iff you have her retrofit item

[stark quiver]

yuh

[night marsh]

hello, where can i get the newest in depth guide

[undone plover]

yeah that is always an option
the cog chip income isnt that good from farming anyway

[viscid swift]

if you're done with main fleets normal income is enough to keep up with just vanguards

[barren tapir]

https://samheart564.github.io/ECGC/newbie_tips

[humble summit]

able to buy? and is it worth building

[stark quiver]

no yes

[rigid onyx]

If you don't have her item it isnt worth it for you yet

[stark quiver]

no retro item = dont build her

[night marsh]

ty

[humble summit]

how to get her retro item

[rigid onyx]

wait for an event

[humble summit]

oh

[viscid swift]

it's event limited

should rerun next EN Anni

[stark quiver]

another lost soul

[keen sable]

you know like you're waiting for fu shun item for 7 days. multiply that by 30 and wait some more

[humble summit]

despair

[rigid onyx]

she fills a very decent niche of helping a ton with vanguard pressure but she isn't bis outside of content with extreme vanguard pressure

[viscid swift]

feels like a bit of an oxymoron

[rigid onyx]

what?

[stark quiver]

3 ijn says hi

[sharp socket]

eldkai is stronk and usable in alot

[rigid onyx]

a sentence can't be an oxymoron and the sentence is internally consistent

[viscid swift]

one, her slow is still useful esepcially when stacked with another slow regardless of vanguard pressure present

[sharp socket]

shes like z52 in a way

[stark quiver]

she is not

[viscid swift]

and, a lot of relevant content does have high vanguard pressure

[sharp socket]

usable in alot of stuff was what i was going for

[cobalt gate]

would 3 healer backrow work to be honest?

[stark quiver]

that sounds like ass

[sharp socket]

not in terms of her skills/statline vs z52

[undone plover]

would lack dmg and interception

[humble summit]

kekw

[viscid swift]

what was the set up again, Musashi, Aquila Unicorn? for 15-1 farming

[barren tapir]

that is going a bit too far but i agree eldkai is just generally great to have in most content even if specific ships might outstrip her specifically in an area

[stark quiver]

yuh

[turbid marsh]

either that, or zuihou sub for aquila, there is also a luna fleet but i dont recom that if leveling ca.

[rigid onyx]

i'd argue that eldkai is the opposite type of ship compared to z52 as you have to be intentional with her operation rainbow skill or slow as opposed to just a generic generalist (which z52 is)

[barren tapir]

lucky me, barely missing both eldkai and zuihou

[humble summit]

is it sane to mlb another laffey 2

[viscid swift]

no

[undone plover]

this is what renhex uses

[stark quiver]

if u wnna display skins i guess

non 125 oathed hood

[barren tapir]

you have laffeynormal for that

[humble summit]

laffey 2 only has one skin, ik u can steal laffey's skin but

[runic bluff]

should I do the normal and easy mode of this event?

[viscid swift]

no

[stark quiver]

just do hard

[barren tapir]

no

[runic bluff]

hard and EX using all tickets?

[rose cosmos]

Can rumey work on a boss fleet with 2 flapjacks

[viscid swift]

just hard mode 20 times a day is enough

[viscid swift]

for what content?

[rigid onyx]

does that get you to 55k points for the gold plates?

[barren tapir]

assuming campaign, sure

[viscid swift]

yes

[hoary relic]

erm guys, which BB should i exchange from the medal shop for the flag ship and for later on.

[rose cosmos]

What about opsi medium armor

[viscid swift]

Hood

[barren tapir]

medium armor you use la9 or bfg

[stark quiver]

why 2 flapjack

[rose cosmos]

That’s way too expensive though

[stark quiver]

why not 2 la9 or 2 bfg

[cobalt gate]

btw amagi cross fleet barrage vs soviet which is better for mobbing

[viscid swift]

you mean Soyuz?

[stark quiver]

bfgs are not expensive 💀

[cobalt gate]

oh yeah soyuz

[stark quiver]

i thought that was a pun cheeky

[viscid swift]

Soyuz's is better but you may need Amagi for ACV

[rose cosmos]

Oh the n*** plane? Yeah

[bright tusk]

what is the X/15 limit on easy to hard event stage?

[viscid swift]

uhh

[cobalt gate]

i see

[viscid swift]

you could have said German for one, 2, there are a lot of German planes in game

[stark quiver]

yeh
the rocket plane

[rose cosmos]

I think I can do tjat

[undone plover]

check the pins

[rigid onyx]

is n*** plane some nickname i havent been privy to

[stark quiver]

no

its not a nickname nor should it ever be one

[vale spindle]

hes censoring the name of the political party of a certain figure during ww2 germany

[viscid swift]

lets not bring that into this channel...

[runic bluff]

should I do EX only 1 time?

[cobalt gate]

ugh i wish planes was the issue but its literally torpedoes

[viscid swift]

bulges on your ships then

[cobalt gate]

already did

[viscid swift]

well that's farming 15-1 for you

[rigid onyx]

double line?

[cobalt gate]

i find double line worse

probably since causes some torpedo stuff to live way longer

[rose cosmos]

So with amagi cv she is better with a dive bomber compared to a flapjack?

[stark quiver]

she wants a bfg
and 2 dtb prob

[rose cosmos]

Amagi?

[undone plover]

this is what renhex uses to farm 15-1 fwiw
looks like edlridge musashi and unicorn is enough to carry

[viscid swift]

smh Renhex not being done with main fleets

[rose cosmos]

What is a dtb btw

[undone plover]

renhex is a zoomer

[viscid swift]

pretty sure Renhex is older than me

[solar canopy]

I have finished developing some ships in pr 5, 6 and 7.

This is a list of ships that I have not developed yet:

Pr 5:

• Prinz ruprecht
• Harbin
• Chkalov
• Brest

Pr 6:

• felix schultz
• flandre

Pr 7:

• halford
• daisen
• napoli
• bayard

What are the recommendations that I should develop?

[humble summit]

im still salty i missed the musashi rerun

[hollow gust]

finish season by season 4>5>7>6

[undone plover]

pr5 so u can start coining them
if u have stuff already coining just do whatever u can slowly

[viscid swift]

well all the PR5 PRs now that they can be coined

[sweet delta]

Renhex was playing azulen in 2019

[viscid swift]

along with Shimanto, rest of them the order doesn't matter

[barren tapir]

idk if an underlevelled vg is doing anywhere near enough dps for single line to make a difference

[cobalt gate]

yeah 1 line is a no, i run circular currently

[viscid swift]

any reason why 15-1 in particular or

[proud turret]

You reminded me to develop Flandre, thank you

[cobalt gate]

cog

[viscid swift]

are you done leveling main fleets?

[barren tapir]

(well again a 5% diff isnt making torp ships live longer)

[bright tusk]

i've turned off auto call sub on this event, but the auto battle still call the submarine
is something wrong?

[cobalt gate]

to 120 yeah

[rigid onyx]

auto repeat always calls subs in the raid

[turbid marsh]

if you lack fleet tech/ good cats, just go for 14-1 tbh, its like what, 10% or less difference in cog?

[solar canopy]

Oh okay then thanks for the enlightenment

[barren tapir]

or give up on the cursed cog farm coping, the rate is bad even in ch15 and you might as well suffer less and hardly notice it

[rigid onyx]

No reason not to farm your bottleneck

[viscid swift]

I wouldn't go that far but with that abysmal rate and effort needed yeah I would

[barren tapir]

its like still 100 oil per single cog, you could like, not have a 50% lose rate

[rigid onyx]

I mean he's trying to make a comp more effecient than 14-1 which will have a 100% win rate, otherwise he'd drop down

[barren tapir]

do 14-1 or 13-1 and actually get rewards for your oil 100% of the time...

[cobalt gate]

it just always feel so close, its only the last battle or getting super unlucky with torpedo that you get like 3 hits in a row

[viscid swift]

that's not something you can really help

[rigid onyx]

You could experiment with different cats if you're so close to consistency

[viscid swift]

besides, OOA nodes are always gonna be the hardest

[undone plover]

well... if u dont want to run eldridge can u at least show your gear? maybe u havent staggered properly
or running non optimal gear

[cobalt gate]

hmm could be

[sweet delta]

May I introduce you to Vestal

[cobalt gate]

ok one sec

[viscid swift]

not to mention farming above W12 for too long can result in grey plate shoratges

[sweet delta]

Fine, I mean Fancy

[undone plover]

not if u lowoil farm events

[rigid onyx]

what do you do when in grey plate shortage

[cobalt gate]

btw is there a good low oil fleet?

[sweet delta]

lowoil farm events

[viscid swift]

I haven't ever been in that situation myelf

[undone plover]

not for this event

[barren tapir]

i feel like ch15 farm should only be used if ur strong enough to 100% do it otherwise oil wasted on failed attempts testing out possible comps cancels out any potential benefit for ages

[cobalt gate]

is it just 70 ranger and 70 white dd?

[turbid marsh]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1evkpYiEy5?spm_id_from=333.788.videopod.sections&vd_source=35a93927465e1dd0269472f7de8e2902 if you want to, there are some samples of what cn people use.

[undone plover]

tbh it is much easier with eldridge

[barren tapir]

do they have eld

[rigid onyx]

He's literally labbing to get a consistent clear

[sweet delta]

I dropped below 2000 per gray plat type and then I started low oil farming events and now I'm above 2000

[undone plover]

they have a dev30 kear
I assume so

[rigid onyx]

your issue might just be michita in which case you drop to do 14-1 until she's leveled

[turbid marsh]

click around on the bilibili watch list, they have like a list of different fleets farming 15-1... if copying/pasting doesn't work, it means your frontline is too weak or not enough tech/ good cats. therefore move on to w14.

[viscid swift]

you could use +13 rudders for one

[cobalt gate]

oh thats true

[viscid swift]

also, just how many cogs do you have right now

[cobalt gate]

25k

[viscid swift]

uhhh, then maybe use some to uncap Wichita at least so shes not as prone to dying

[cobalt gate]

issue is glasglow

[undone plover]

should shouhou not be replaced

[viscid swift]

esepcially in difficult content like this, don't keep your ships capped when they're being dragged through difficult content, every little bit helps

[sweet delta]

No tank in sight

[cobalt gate]

glasglow is the tank spot for now, witcha is just bad

[keen sable]

the best tanks are 50% tanks and that's 50% so it's gucci

[sweet delta]

Glasgow is bad

[barren tapir]

well she's also not mlb

[cobalt gate]

although i'm not sure if i have any good tanks left to lvl

[viscid swift]

also yeah, why tf are you using shouhou

[humble summit]

do i save my decor coins?

[sweet delta]

After you expanded the floor to max, just buy every limited set

[humble summit]

how to know if its limited

[keen sable]

whoa +1 comfort

[undone plover]

it will have a timer that says x days remaining
and comes with new events or rerun events

[plain saffron]

It have n days left

[humble summit]

ah ok ill save it till limited come

[undone plover]

we have a limited one right now

[rigid onyx]

there's a limited right now

[humble summit]

huh?

[sweet delta]

🆕

[undone plover]

check your dorm shop

[keen sable]

Blooming Plum Tapestry

[humble summit]

thrres no time limit

[neon finch]

can I yet graduate?

[plain saffron]

No you're stuck here forever

[undone plover]

click buy then check the individual items of the set
they will have the timer

[humble summit]

oh ok

[humble summit]

damn

[rigid onyx]

damn 476

[humble summit]

1790 expensive

[rigid onyx]

im only at 416

[stark quiver]

maybe i should buy gem furni

[undone plover]

it is not
u usually get more than that between sets

[humble summit]

oh

[blissful atlas]

Is the sy-1 or sy-1a better on all ddg or is one better on specific ships

[rigid onyx]

1a is like 20% better iirc

[viscid swift]

Sy1-a is just better

[sweet delta]

uhh what

[rigid onyx]

they realized they misread and deleted with swiftness

[viscid swift]

was that who pinged me

[blissful atlas]

Brain saw one symbol after the dash and I brain farted lol

[tulip zenith]

Can someone help me build a PvP fleet plz

[humble summit]

i saw

[keen sable]

#pvp

[rigid onyx]

there's a spreadsheet pinned there

but pvp fleets dont matter anyways

[viscid swift]

you think that until you feel the crunch for SR bullins

[blissful atlas]

Hypothetical question ik ddg are supposed to be vanguard but is there one that does better then the others as a main fleet

[soft raft]

Nop

[rigid onyx]

You can get basically the same merit income with a bad pvp fleet

[barren tapir]

nah but the diff isnt something to be overly worried about

[neon finch]

more recommendations on gear?

[sharp comet]

dude i had 79k cog chips a yr ago and now i'm at 1.6k

[rigid onyx]

~~ just use ectl ~~

[stark quiver]

quad 533 imp, UR aa, rudder, toolbox

[viscid swift]

you cannot

[barren tapir]

max merit is what, aotn?

[viscid swift]

pretty much there abouts

[barren tapir]

so yeah i expect itll be hard if not impossible to get there with a bad fleet, but the rank below it, maybe.

[stark quiver]

doing every single set and winning every attack + all rank

[rigid onyx]

how much am i losing by only getting to ~vice admiral and wasting like 10-15 attacks a week

[white agate]

i think all below from 1000 to top 10 are 90 merits per win?

[barren tapir]

i need bulins but i still dont care to minmax merit, i just do it when i remember

[keen sable]

max merit is like anti-sandbagging

[barren tapir]

you get merit for rankups too

[stark quiver]

i saw that

[blissful atlas]

They can't all preform the same lol (one always has to be better) that's just not how things work lol one has to be better then the others so which between them does better as main fleet I don't plan on using it as such I just like information

[humble summit]

huh so fast?

[barren tapir]

id guess fushun and taiyuan best just like in vg

[white agate]

yeah, but can be negligible(not quite tho)

[barren tapir]

i mean later ranks are 1000 each

[viscid swift]

at least 5.5k a merit just from not reaching AofTN per season

[stark quiver]

bruh just do your pvp daily and youll be fine

[humble summit]

question, how do u do c1? go to a c1 zone and press repeat?

[rigid onyx]

promotion is like 1/3 to 1/2 of your merit income

[barren tapir]

not even fast

[neon finch]

I mostly manuel but is quad 533 still better than pent 610?

[humble summit]

do u recommend c1 farming now kekw

[barren tapir]

cogs can run out lightning quick if you tried

[white agate]

i mean ypu can do the rank up merits with the attaks of a day, so ypu lose 1 day of merits in a season, not a big deal if not heavily in meta 120 farm

[humble summit]

i guess i never tried hard enough

[stark quiver]

manual
but just run teatorp if manual

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/wiki/533mm_Quintuple_Torpedo_Mount_Mk_IX#Type_0-0

[rigid onyx]

why is it called teatorp

[humble summit]

torpedo with a pot on top

cute torpedo

[viscid swift]

they're British Torps

[neon finch]

ok

[tulip zenith]

Can you still get jintsuu meta

[viscid swift]

not right now

you'll be waiting a few more months at least before your next oppurtunity

and that's why you don't skip on ships

[queen jackal]

are red envelope rewards set?

[viscid swift]

yes, you're gonna get 300 gems total, if you're really lucky maybe a few more

[barren tapir]

wait what lucky

[humble summit]

100000000 gems when

[viscid swift]

300 gems is gonna be obtained over the first 20

[white agate]

💳

[viscid swift]

the last 5 are random mostly non gem rewards but you still have a small chance at getting a few more

[humble summit]

imagine 1 gem

[rigid onyx]

.05 dock slots.

[viscid swift]

was it 15-10, my memory is going then

[deep cypress]

10 dock slots more for free. Gogogogo!

[white agate]

0.05 dock space, itake it

[keen sable]

impossible. always 2

[barren tapir]

need more dock

[stark quiver]

just get good luck at gachapon

[barren tapir]

should i manual ch14 this week for more dock?

[white agate]

??

[viscid swift]

which you promptly dumped into a L2D skin

[deep cypress]

Good wat?

[keen sable]

double...

[rigid onyx]

someone out there has 4 SD above average VIP comm luck

[viscid swift]

uhh, I don't think even manual would do it with what you may be lacking....

[barren tapir]

oof that bad?

[stark quiver]

nah got 2 rings, rest is going into a skin

[viscid swift]

well correction, you'll proably do 14-1 just fine but the 14-2 boss will be a rude awakening

[keen sable]

ooh and bonus stickers. i don't even know what those are

[white agate]

maybe with subs support

[barren tapir]

manual can cancel shells

[white agate]

you got some leveled cats right?

[viscid swift]

yeah shells won't be the only issue

[forest palm]

cats won't help much

[viscid swift]

and 14-3 well....

you'll see

[barren tapir]

[stark quiver]

14-3 = 🧨

[forest palm]

just brute force 14-3 that's what I did

[barren tapir]

perhaps you underestimate my manual skill or i underestimate ch14 difficulty, not sure

[viscid swift]

if you haven't seen it yet, you'll start to ask the question when will the waves end a ot

[white agate]

11

[humble summit]

any benefits for c1 farm

[stark quiver]

gamble for ap

[humble summit]

farm for stats?

[stark quiver]

ask aurora, theyre the c1 expert

[barren tapir]

tbf tho cheeky i do have a decent number of ships suchi rates highly for ch14

[rigid onyx]

addiction only strategy that requires very large time-investment for very marginal return, but is theoretically infinite

[viscid swift]

yeah I know, my biggest concern is your lack of UR BBs

[humble summit]

i mean just throw there and afk right

[viscid swift]

and a few equip defficiencies

[rigid onyx]

no

[deep cypress]

Farm c1 for what?

[undone plover]

FdG would have been handy

[barren tapir]

the big one i think (?) is i have no 457

[rigid onyx]

you very uniquely cannot afk c1, you have to check for akashi shop every time

[keen sable]

nothing

[storm heron]

I can't find remains of my ch14 clears

[undone plover]

it is her fav chapter

[white agate]

it seems like for some people it can give lot of stamina, but its lenghty and some people keeping data on it showed the ap gain is very small(for me i keep losing ap doing c1 )

[viscid swift]

you have 155 kais or 137s?

[barren tapir]

you can afk c1 tho, you just check every 30-60 min for akashi pause

[tulip zenith]

Is manual ayanami a good strat for bosses

[weary gust]

If you could afk c1 we would recommend it if you had time/were out of oil. That you cannot makes it a huge active time sink for little reward.

[humble summit]

like what else u can get

[stark quiver]

holdup guys
i have remnents of my w14 fleet

[barren tapir]

2 twin 137s and could probably make 155kais this or next month (i havent bought any opsi resources yet)

[tulip zenith]

Aw

[viscid swift]

ok that's fine then

[stark quiver]

90% sure cheeky cooked this up for me

[viscid swift]

yeah that looks like my cooking

[rigid onyx]

i mean that just looks like it would burger stomp w15 w14

was wondering why i was getting so many doubt reacts

[barren tapir]

i have reasonable confidence in ruppy as mob flag on manual, boss would be trickier, not sure if nagatom would suffice (or yami)

[undone plover]

how is your

[barren tapir]

or i could do yami mob ruppy boss, both have some form of self-durability assist

[storm heron]

I remember using
monarch uni volga ? suzutsuki kiev wakatsuki
fdg indep ? shinano kron ayanami kawakaze

[sharp socket]

i used some funny stuff for w14

[viscid swift]

your W14 cooking session was really something

[barren tapir]

i could probably cook up some of my ch14 options in a bit will make thread when i do, idk if i actually intend to go for it but more dock is nice

[sleek vault]

Is Hwah Jah Retrofit the best support plane for w15 now?

[viscid swift]

I mean you probably have the ships for it, just a case of levels and putting it all together

[cobalt gate]

is there anyway i can find calc of how likely torpeod hit vs evade?

[barren tapir]

best non-rainbow iirc

[rigid onyx]

3rd best, behind fritz and nakh but imo its kinda brainrot to have fritz in support over a real fleet

[elfin hollow]

Hi quick question is Chen Hai retro really that bad? is she at least able to survive the average hard event map?

[barren tapir]

anything can survive event maps

[keen sable]

she's fine

[stark quiver]

i was new player, had to manual my way thru 14-4 boss

[viscid swift]

do you mean just the eva check or the geometric hit rate as well

[elfin hollow]

aight thanks

[cobalt gate]

eva check,

[viscid swift]

formula is on the wiki's damage calc page

[rigid onyx]

she's the top of TN on ectl basically iirc, and everything can survive event stages fine

[viscid swift]

same as our own ship's use

[cobalt gate]

intresting

[rough vale]

maint when???

[viscid swift]

it already happened....

[rigid onyx]

last night

[stark quiver]

what

[keen sable]

18 hours ago

[deep cypress]

xd

[undone plover]

u should also raise subs for chapter 14 if u havent already

[stark quiver]

like 3 weeks later

[viscid swift]

there's one next week

[sharp socket]

would i take fritz over 9 plane CVs for w15 though

[rigid onyx]

3 subs for w14 is basically an extra 1.5 vanguard ships

[stark quiver]

what that for

[barren tapir]

would aquila prefer to be boss or mob for ch14

[viscid swift]

skins

[sweet delta]

I think ruppy mob flag on manual is a fine idea for w15 too

[stark quiver]

mob
you dont need boss healer

[viscid swift]

mob without question

[undone plover]

indep can do boss

[stark quiver]

kenny

[sleek vault]

150% x3 for 2 slots seems really good, why is it worse?

[sweet delta]

3 rudder bps from 15 boosted

[rigid onyx]

fritz is 140% x 8 higher avi, nakh is 140% x 6 higher avi

[sleek vault]

what are other good ships than those 2?

[sweet delta]

/w15

[odd root]

Bridal Z23

This is a guide for world 15
https://suchiguma.github.io/guides/chapter-15

[keen sable]

does it matter if she's #2 or #3?

[sharp socket]

suchi calculated tied with nakhi

[sleek vault]

no

[rigid onyx]

copied from ectl:

Support fleet options (The URs may contribute more in your main fleet):
Rumey > Nakhimov > Indomitable > Implacable > Hwah Jah (Retro) > Illustrious > Illustrious μ > Little Illustrious > Langley (Retro) > Chen Hai (Retro) > Yorktown II > Independence (Retro) = Centaur = Albion

[sleek vault]

ty

[storm heron]

kenny the famous one in pvp?

[rigid onyx]

i think hwah jah is new and ectl generally undertiers new ships

[sweet delta]

Undertiering a simple calculation is quite sad

[keen sable]

happens when you hate math

[slow fox]

who

[rigid onyx]

i mean people overrated chen hai last year

[slow fox]

Ectl also undertiers old ships. Eugen T5

[sweet delta]

Who?

[viscid swift]

nah they just hate Eugen

[humble summit]

nvm i wont c1 yet i still have alot of abysals and bosses, btw does abysal refresh or how do they appear

[viscid swift]

or do they

[rigid onyx]

i remember reading that eugen is their singular ship thats intentionally slightly mistiered to prevent new-player-investment

[forest palm]

Eugen is the biggest fucking tiering quagmire ECTL has to date, it's like tell you you're tiering based on cost without telling you you're tiering based on cost

[sweet delta]

Never heard of that

[viscid swift]

that may or may not change with something they have in store

[sweet delta]

They insist that she IS that bad

[undone plover]

abyssals are tied to loggers u get from opsi exchange shop
port shops
opsi explo rewards
And cat node rng

[barren tapir]

like any tierlist made and curated by humans, ectl has bias

[forest palm]

it's such a weird tiering, by all accounts Eugen is better than Portland

[humble summit]

is there a limit as in if u got maybe 5, u wont get it from other rewards anymore

[sweet delta]

Lists made by bots are also biased

[undone plover]

I dont think so

[barren tapir]

bots were made by humans, checkmate

[plain saffron]

What about AI

[eternal moth]

There may be a maximum limit that can show up on the map at any one time, but there is no limit to the number you can have in your inventory

[keen sable]

only if the monkeys typed it

[barren tapir]

something something but low dmg, but portland didnt do much dmg anyway i never understood the criticism of eugen beyond gold bulins, which shouldnt be a factor on any tierlist

[eternal moth]

At least Eugen has a usable skill

[viscid swift]

Eugen's problem has pretty much always been one of cost

[forest palm]

and ECTL doesn't want to admit it

[viscid swift]

just wait till you see T0 Eugen

[slow fox]

Biased towards facts and logic

[sweet delta]

If you're looking for a doubt from me then just ask for it

[rigid onyx]

portland deals actual damage compared to eugen

[slow fox]

You autodoubt anyways though

[wind hazel]

what damage

[cobalt gate]

omg how do i get die immedily by 5 tordpedoes all triggering at once

[barren tapir]

neither of them deal any amount of damage worth praising

[eternal moth]

In what?

[sweet delta]

We already told you, quit 15-1

[sharp socket]

port has damage?

[cobalt gate]

15-1

[white agate]

emotional

[eternal moth]

Oh, then skill issue. Skill didn't proc or something, IDK

[wind hazel]

true, i instantly mute my game from the overspam indy-chan

[elfin hollow]

Is solo hakuryuu worth running or just slap Enty in instead?

[eternal moth]

For what?

[forest palm]

it's serviceable(?), but it isn't absolute shit

[keen sable]

which one is capped?

[viscid swift]

my dude you have 25k cogs, from here on out you're not gonna outpace supply if you only focus on vanguards and the occasional main fleets from events, drop down to an easier map where you can farm more consistently

[slow fox]

Classic hyperboles. We need to start measuring damage in absolute Portands.

[barren tapir]

her dmg is low but more present than eugens, but realistically the difference is not massive and eugen does infact have a good bit higher bulk than portland

at the least i would view them as equal

[viscid swift]

yeah pretty much

Portland is just much much cheaper

[clever lance]

For the build 10 ships event quest, is that a daily, or is it a one time event quest

[viscid swift]

she's not even good tech, AA at 120 lamo

[sweet delta]

Absolute Portland's with +13 UR CA gun and +13 mog gun? I can do that

[elfin hollow]

what does that mean

[eternal moth]

One-time quest

[keen sable]

which one is L125 already

[clever lance]

Got it thanks

[slow fox]

Yes please

[storm heron]

compare portland to ply hinden as statstick

[clever lance]

Just wanted to make sure I shouldn’t be rushing it today lol

[elfin hollow]

Haku is

[barren tapir]

tbf eugen is hp lol. but eugen can be argued kms point

eugen can also be argued for a roon start but i think that particular path is too spicy for gph to discuss yet

[viscid swift]

I don't think so TBH

the bigger issue is just the scarcity of gold bullins early on relatively

[wind hazel]

it's gold bulin limitation, that's all there is to it

[keen sable]

use enty for levels

[reef badger]

Ex boss armor type?

K thnx.

[rigid onyx]

starting eugen when you usually shouldnt have more than 1 gold ship in your first fleet and portland is better seems inadvisable

[viscid swift]

like, most arguments here devolve into lack of resources and how best to utilize those resources more than anything else

[rigid onyx]

also starter missions

[barren tapir]

but is portland even better? i am fully willing to cast doubt on that

[viscid swift]

not really tbh

[forest palm]

baring cost, no

[eternal moth]

Eugen on the left, Port on the right

[viscid swift]

like, when we say better, it's not always strictly from a performance stand point

[barren tapir]

also, assuming rapid campaign progress, fielding 2 gold ships is not impossible, you get a couple bulins from 3* campaign

[forest palm]

like Eugen herself could easily be at most a Tier 2 CA

[viscid swift]

it's not fielding 2 gold ships that's the issue, it's which 2 gold ships

[white agate]

portland faster

[barren tapir]

so my take is eugen+z23 chase roon start is a possibly valid path but i also just cooked it up in the last 10 minutes so

[viscid swift]

like, would you limit break Eugen over Enterprise or Hood as a newbie

[reef badger]

Any more effort to ask and I might've tried to trigger Taihoe simps again.

[barren tapir]

can go smth like hood uni sara eugen helena z23

[keen sable]

a tank is anything that survives with at least 1 HP. In the modern Unicorn meta, Portland easily satisfies that. Eugen has no actual benefit.

[reef badger]

😂😂😂

[undone plover]

does portland rly have bad dps compared to eugen? she has a full mgm on her
Or is her "barrage" just bad

[rigid onyx]

portland dps is better

[elfin hollow]

is there a way to get Jintsu Meta still?

[eternal moth]

What I did, except I got Riche instead of Hood

[reef badger]

Eugen has no DPS lol.

[barren tapir]

eugen has kms tech points and roon exp as a benefit, if you decide to go roon over saint louis as first pr. so no, i wouldnt say no benefit.

[viscid swift]

but then you'd have to also retro Sara which isn't a deal breaker but it is more time and effort

[rose cosmos]

Eugen takes bulins though

[eternal moth]

Show me your math

[viscid swift]

also you can just get a better tank like Lala or Freidrich Carl from an event

[reef badger]

Its called hyperbole. You should try it some time.

[barren tapir]

generally speaking unless you're lucky enough to begin on a server with good medal options you'd only be having one of enty or hood

[plain saffron]

How many Portlands are 1 Saratoga

[rose cosmos]

Wait where do I find fried

[barren tapir]

which necessitates retrofitting either nelson or sara for a good starter 1fleet

[keen sable]

Portland is more like Eugun than no aug Roon

[rigid onyx]

portland has an entire extra mgm

[viscid swift]

she's event limited

[slow fox]

I don't think I'm fit to answer this question. If I had to guess, 9.22.

[eternal moth]

And Eugen has torps

[rose cosmos]

Can I find her in side story

[viscid swift]

well, we do record medal shop selections for each month for that reason

[barren tapir]

portland does more dmg than eugen there is no question there. but barring costs does that even matter

[viscid swift]

I'll also add that you do need to retro Portland for the rookie missions

[barren tapir]

generally speaking a newbie usually would join the game and then come here, unless they want to swap servers after the fact it probably isnt happening

[rose cosmos]

Comparing tank dps seems like bottom of the barrel talking point lol

[viscid swift]

which does help you get either Enterprise or Hood

[white agate]

yep, but at game start ypu usually won't have magnetic torps, you will also play manual tho i think

[barren tapir]

yeah i mean. portland sounds like the safer and generally better path, im just putting forth eugen as a possibility for getting roon first as an option too

[rigid onyx]

eugen bulk is entirely wasted as content with enough vg pressure for it to be somewhat useful her complete lack of dps makes her a non-option

[viscid swift]

like, if you're gonna go down the limit break eugen path

I'd wait until you get your 2nd fleet

[barren tapir]

yes, enterprise or hood, which usually means retrofitting either sara or nelson in response, regardless, so i didnt factor in said cost in my first fleet example

[viscid swift]

because at that point you have more resources to work with and you may not have another tank to use at that point

[eternal moth]

Like either portland or eugen's damage matter compared to Helena

[keen sable]

can't even use eugen until day 8 so this is very sus as a strategy

[undone plover]

i am actually curious shouldnt she be essentially double eugen's dps?
they have very similar stats but portland has 1 more mgm
or is it cause both their dmg just 🚮

[viscid swift]

yeah there's that as well

[barren tapir]

that is probably what i'd do too, and then swap eugen and portland when needed to grind out roon but the main idea is having eugen has a possible usable option, which ppl rarely consider.

[viscid swift]

also, what does getting Roon earlier even do realistically

[keen sable]

nothing

[barren tapir]

double of trash is still not exactly noteworthy but it is something. my point regarding that is moreso you dont pick either to do damage

[slow fox]

So I assume IPH + Toolkit for CL/A/B despite IPH + Beaver obviously being a better eHP pick. The justification is that beaver is unique gear, can't be put on multiple ships.

Does the same justification exist from a DPS standpoint, based on the relative scarcity of UR equipment that a player would have?

[undone plover]

yeah fair point
just wasnt sure if I was missing sth

[barren tapir]

well it's if you want her over saint louis, as a more generalist dps especially since good HE guns are harder to come by

[tender lotus]

Where should i use bonus ticket for raid event?

[sweet delta]

Depends on what people want to read DPS calculations for

[viscid swift]

well here's the main reason why we don't fuss over the first PR ship

[white agate]

ex, if able to auto

[keen sable]

it's still very sus to nerf your progress for fdg and roon doesn't help with that

[rigid onyx]

first pr ship entirely depends on the event you come in on

[viscid swift]

they're both gonna take a few weeks at that stage to just unlock and another month to dev 30

[barren tapir]

roon does infact help with the tech requirement

[rose cosmos]

These worth taking?

[tender lotus]

Thank you

[keen sable]

hard if you just want to easily get 48k. ex if you want 60k and a gold crane

[viscid swift]

they're not gonna be useful for combat for a long time and by the time they do they're probably replaced anyway/ytech fodder

[rigid onyx]

20 hard modes/day is better than ex for oil efficiency

or at least i've been told

[keen sable]

that Q2 looks mighty tempting...

[white agate]

always prio ur faces in research usually

[viscid swift]

yes Roon helps with FDG tech but she's hardly necessary to unlock her, just obtaining her later on is pretty quick and still helps with tech

[slow fox]

:mutsukiread:

Is there a usecase/argument for any generalized setup?

[tender lotus]

Gold crane?

[slow fox]

How about L/M/H setups separately?

[keen sable]

T5 tech box which will in all likely just give a gold maintenance crane

[rigid onyx]

Is it still reccomended to rush anchorage with the pr1 augs

[viscid swift]

yes

[barren tapir]

anchorage is very good so i feel like yes

[keen sable]

these things

[sweet delta]

Or the DPS vendor can just offer a "bis" version and a "ok" version

[white agate]

augs still costs a lot of material

[barren tapir]

the only decent pr1 tank by modern standards is neptune anyway, for mobbing. and she's harder to do than both roon and saint louis

[tender lotus]

Oh the rainbow tech box

[barren tapir]

so for a competent boss tank anchorage is the nobrain instant first pick

[stark quiver]

When vanny wa

[slow fox]

In Portland example, BIS is with +13 UR CA gun and +13 Mog gun?

Would you call IPH + Toolkit "ok" for eHP?

[eternal moth]

Or dev15 Agir

[barren tapir]

i dont understand the , nep is 123% and both roon and sanrui are barely 100% level

[white agate]

she was my 1st pr, i got her pretty fast with hms fleet

[barren tapir]

nep is basically eugen but with actual damage

[eternal moth]

Zombies have really fallen out of favor due to Unicorn

[slow fox]

:notesuki:

Totally possible to make port% scale for DPS.

[rigid onyx]

roon is a fine tank

[barren tapir]

does that matter when she's straight up significantly tankier than the other pr1 options

[sweet delta]

The neat part is that even without the zombie skill, she's as tank as Roon and Portland

[barren tapir]

roon last i checked is a portland that does damage, her strength is damage

also nep can still perform pretty good in boss, but also she is imo undisputed easiest and best early mobtank since ancho covers boss until you get agir to make ancho mob agir boss or whatever comes next

[sharp socket]

i got both roon and sanrui but didn't use either since i used no tank for mob until i got ancho

[keen sable]

~~eugen has better stats for D3 ~~

[barren tapir]

what stats

[eternal moth]

D3 what?

[keen sable]

torp would be the most obvious one

[barren tapir]

usually newbie pain point is torp and nep has decent torp actually lol

[white agate]

more oil cost
wait i thougjt compared to port

[barren tapir]

neptune 359 eugen 155 tf you arguing bro

[keen sable]

why would oil matter on d3?

[keen sable]

if you can get neptune by day 14 please suggest it

[barren tapir]

man, even ectl rates neptune t0 but everyone still memes on her

[keen sable]

otherwise...very sus

[barren tapir]

what is important about day 14

[white agate]

to farm event points?

[sharp socket]

ayanami fulfilled my torp needs for early game so i dont see how any of the early PRs were good

[rigid onyx]

your first pr researches are very likely determined by your first 2 events

[keen sable]

i'm still on portland vs eugen

[tender lotus]

Wait neptune become T0??

[barren tapir]

what even is your argument? can you get roon or saint louis by day 14?

[eternal moth]

There's a lot of investment required to get Ayanami

[keen sable]

screw prs that are useless for months

[barren tapir]

yes

[rigid onyx]

portland is better than eugen in almost every context aside from like cm & EX

[cobalt gate]

wow the ehp sheet is great now i can find out which ship is a good tank

[keen sable]

if you hate eugen now i'm cool with it

[barren tapir]

so are roon and saint louis, but my point is stop shitting on an actually decent ship

[sharp socket]

more investment than grinding a PR and coining?

[barren tapir]

buddy either explain what your point is or

cos otherwise to me you're kinda just blathering nonsense

[keen sable]

you have no clue what you are projecting. i never said anything about neptune and don't plan to

[sharp socket]

for a budget torp statstick ayanami was very helpful in the early part of my playing trying to meet torp requirements for stuff and still is now

[eternal moth]

I just raised Shiranui

[barren tapir]

???

oh wait was the d3 comment comparing eugen to portland

[dreamy blade]

Me who did ibuki first reading this convo

[barren tapir]

sorry, kinda hard to tell who is what there seems to be multiple threads ongoing

[white agate]

then why did they suss my oil comment

[barren tapir]

i take that L tho in hindsight it makes sense

[rigid onyx]

convo about prs is useless; as I said 5 times your research path is entirely dependent on early light gacha pulls and early event factions

[keen sable]

you full fleet D3. why would cost matter?

[viscid swift]

not really to be honest

[barren tapir]

barring outside influences research path is normally saint louis

[dreamy blade]

Yes that's also bc I started with amagi cv event, but sanrui is the easiest regardless

[barren tapir]

because uss vg is recommended in starter fleet, easy to grind out

[viscid swift]

it's pretty much consistently gonna be Saint Louis -> FDG -> Anchorage/Agir -> AvP assuming proper progress and such

[tender lotus]

I'm not really sure but from my experience 7 days is the fastest i can do for getting the PR/DR ships
Is that the same for everyone?

[eternal moth]

I ended up going roon first on my alt because I only needed a few points for FdG due to KMS event

[keen sable]

i've never gone faster than 6 so I think you're doing fine

[rigid onyx]

fdg second makes me kind of ignore this

[barren tapir]

well, there is a 7 day ish timer yes

[white agate]

with all blueprints too?

[viscid swift]

what
have you seen the amount of IB tech you can obtain from the Guild Shop and Divergent Chessboard

[tender lotus]

Just get the ship not d30 it

[barren tapir]

i went nep first cos i liked her, she was bad then, my waifuism got rewarded by augment when i dev30 her

my reasoning back then for pr1 is theyre mostly meh and i cant do ibuki so uh ill pick favorite for protocore and move on

[rigid onyx]

I remember being able to do ancho before fdg fairly easily even though I got all the free IB ships

[white agate]

oh, yeah; then ypu can get it in less than 7 days sure, even less with dedicated farming, especially for main fleet i think

[barren tapir]

its funny how now there's actual choice

[sharp socket]

you just do anchorage or fdg first depending on your start, if closer to ancho do ancho, if closer to fdg do fdg

[viscid swift]

you didn't get all of them then evidently

[barren tapir]

i think ancho is easier barring specific events but you just go for whatever can be done sooner

[viscid swift]

see for yoruself
https://samheart564.github.io/ECGC/fleet_technology

[keen sable]

i think it's quite hard to start anchorage need a lot more ships and mlb than fdg BUT at least you don't have to use shitty stuff like ugly sisters

[sharp socket]

my start was NP event so i got nothing regarding that but somehow did ancho first