Memory Hunt Changes - Server patch 1.303

[heady lantern]

im not double clicking dms. One tap opens the DM.

Just had an Amity disappear and I can't find it on step 3. No I didn't move.

[steady charm]

this happened to me

got stuck on a node and it just kinda kept glitching

wouldnt progress. starting a new dm fixed it

[indigo urchin]

Are we in the optimizing streets and roads era now?

[pseudo topaz]

Teach me later, if that works out

[digital patio]

It doesn't

[warm junco]

Finally got 1 100% fishing…now to get a second spawned

[wide thistle]

Go away, im bating!

[heady lantern]

This definitely is a bigger bug then using 2 dms at a time. It's killing my PoUA

[wraith zephyr]

Same issue, report bug!

I feel like is a cache issue.

[wraith zephyr]

Got it again lol

I think is the event battle.

[wraith zephyr]

Did Odie silent patch?
Cause in 4 hours, I'm getting 3 hours with 3-4 couchable nodes

[indigo urchin]

does he ever patch without writing a patch note?

[modern crag]

Am I tripping or am I getting halved rewards with the same gear setup?

[wraith zephyr]

How many buff you have?

[wraith zephyr]

He does secretly change stuff without notice.

[modern crag]

I get it. I forgot my coin.

I'm dumb

[past knot]

it's not like he's deliberately not doing it, though. The major stuff is almost always posted

[wraith zephyr]

Always remember, 52 exp.

The stuck is starting to get me. I'm stuck almost every event battle.

Is this another minigames that I didn't notice?

Damn it.

[split coral]

Yea, something happened to battles yesterday, they’re super unreliable now

[wraith zephyr]

I'm stuck at first step.

Ggwp.

I even delete all data, and cache. Doesn't work.

[eager canopy]

the bug ahs been reported odie knows

[wraith zephyr]

Ya just frustrated lol cause I just got a 3 nodes hour.

Wait 4.

[eager canopy]

we all are not happy

[wraith zephyr]

Nice can't connect to server

[wraith zephyr]

Since Odie remove VD from memories, is it possible to let the character circle to be bigger since we see our character touches the circle during zoom out?
I mean only for memories layer?

[wide thistle]

This blows, repeating same node 3x just to maybe get a completion

Great last hour.

[warm junco]

Has any ever had the new mnemonic be a couchable

[wide thistle]

Yes

[tacit dirge]

I dislike event only amities. No rewind, I dislike event only amities that you can't farm/target. If they are limited to this month heck even a week event I wouldn't mind - if they are added for memory hunts pool. But locking good new bonuses behind 100% RNG event where you get 14? 20 tries? To get 8 amities you would not like missing? That's lame. Some players will be missing out because of RNG. And up to this point you could overcome RNG by brute force: grinding. You wanted event ornate loot? No problem some farmed 10 raids some 700-800 but they also get it. Current state is middle finger to all that would love to get some fresh amities but won't be able to.

Maybe I will get all by the end of event but I know some players won't. And it won't be their fault.

[wraith zephyr]

Just to summarize his statement.
" I want public amities, not event lock amities gatcha. "

[gloomy geode]

Same, still haven't seen a single 100% BoF rewards amity

[deft jacinth]

same but this isn't the first time we had such a mechanic; EoD weapons are the same, Tethra from creator raid was the same

[wraith zephyr]

I feel like Odie will eventually put it into the pool. But not now lol.

[deft jacinth]

i never ever read anyone liking that in the game but developers want some RNG to exist and be "unfarmable" , see thronemaker ultra rare gilded amulet as well. We have just to hope those items are never game breaking

[tacit dirge]

Glided amulet was farmable it was ultra rare but monuments was not limited

[alpine vortex]

Spoiler alert they are

Bof amities are huge

Fishing are huge

[deft jacinth]

50% rare is actually quite big this event as well (that's the only one i got for now)

[alpine vortex]

Yup

[deft jacinth]

might be different hoa vs orna regarding rift event though

[tacit dirge]

You can't travel or go cycling around town to farm new amities and you definitely could increase your monuments per day by alot with increased spawn rates.

[alpine vortex]

3% Dodge is meh, and 10% 2h and 10% weapon prof could be good if you happen to get them with crit or something

[deft jacinth]

we have 4 guaranteed every week in HoA and the only non common gilded amulets i saw came from astral tree lol

[tacit dirge]

Event lock okay, as long as they are not limited and rng can be overcome with enough grind.

[deft jacinth]

but also Tethra was BIS at some point for dragon farming (before 2h weapons)

[wraith zephyr]

Sorry re edit it.

[alpine vortex]

I'm okay with event lock, but they should drop from apolly raids like mnemosyne tower

[deft jacinth]

and we are just lucky that the 2h EoD weapons aren't incredible at ornate

[tacit dirge]

I wouldn't compare orna to hoa they are both too different in way too many aspects.

[deft jacinth]

identical in most things actually

[alpine vortex]

But my biggest complaint about amities is always the same. The odds of finding a useable legendary is so damn rare

[tacit dirge]

If you look at sprites and fight yeah identical

[deft jacinth]

got significantly worse with the additions of new lines in the last several months. Every new line dilutes good 2 liners a lot

[tacit dirge]

But most systems are re-writed and work differently

[deft jacinth]

at least now we "only" need 2 good lines, as malus can be rerolled

[alpine vortex]

Hoa suffers way less from this new amity system that's for sure

[deft jacinth]

there was a hunt , 0 good 2 liners lol

[alpine vortex]

But y'all can scout every node of every hour...we are lucky if 2 people can scout the same 2 nodes anymore

[deft jacinth]

2 seeds mapped almost all hours, best amity was 50% pos + parapet 🙃

[tacit dirge]

It's not a race who have better or worse. It's orna thread about memory hunt changes. Why we even take hoa as example here tbh. Not gonna be rude

But irrelevant

[deft jacinth]

because the apo amities are gated in the same way in the 2 games and we were discussing them. Same for eod 2h weapons, gilded amulet, and tethra

[alpine vortex]

We had maybe 20 parties at 50% and found about the same

[tacit dirge]

Okay so if it's same lock what do you not agree with let's be crystal clear, talking about amity not glided amulets or eod - that's offtopic

[deft jacinth]

it's not because it's the same mechanic and i am telling you that complaints about stuff being rare and unfarmable aren't new. And i never read anyone being HAPPY about unfarmable stuff like that existing. But developers keep putting out stuff like that

[tacit dirge]

But you gave irrelevant examples

Scarab was farmable

[deft jacinth]

i gave identical examples: stuff that can be strong and it's impossible to gaurantee you get even if you play 24/7

[tacit dirge]

Eod also with dungeon sharing, groups etc

It's different

[deft jacinth]

if you farm 20 hours per day monuments all thronemakers you ahve fewer chance of superior + gilded amulet than you have of 100% bof amity this event

[tacit dirge]

Probability isn't your strong side then

[deft jacinth]

and you can farm 100 + dungeons a day and never get ornate eod of your choice in a year

farmable: you have 90%++ of getting it if you spend 100 hours during an event

[tacit dirge]

Comparing slots with limited tries to unlimited or limited only by time dungeons (monuments)

[deft jacinth]

nonfarmable: even committing allin is very far from guaranteeing you get it. Doesn't matter if you ahve the ILLUSION of chance by doing

[tacit dirge]

Slots with Very limited* tries

[deft jacinth]

this was 1300 mnemonics solo

the nonrenamed ones are "curios" ones i am not sure i want to recollect yet but probably should

[tacit dirge]

Cool, we won't find middle ground I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me.

It's okay

[deft jacinth]

fact is i do agree with you it's bad that these new amities are non farmable but you can't read so

[tacit dirge]

I won't go into fight sorry

[deft jacinth]

you want to claim it's the first time when it literally, objectively isn't and it's an identical problem that has been in the game for a long while

nothing should be nonfarmable, simpel as that.

[tacit dirge]

I can read, maybe I shouldn't attack personal with your probability skills, sorry

Never claimed it's first time, unless you can reply to message I say so

I told that your examples was fault

They were not truly gatekeeped

[deft jacinth]

Tethra is in the game since what, 2024?

[tacit dirge]

Offtopic

You wanted compare same amity lock system

I don't participate in all events and don't know all items too. Tethra I would need to google

[deft jacinth]

it's a weapon you got 10 chances per year to roll lol. Insane vs dragons before 2h weapons became great. Identical to these amities , very limited RNG chance to get a good one.

[tacit dirge]

Okay if you say so I believe you in 10 tries that is good example of similar rng lock

Still didn't claimed its first time they do this

[deft jacinth]

it was during ornaversary, the creator raid arisen waygate, 10 rolls per kill

[tacit dirge]

Just i dislike it xD

How many kills could you do?

Or one raid for whole event

[deft jacinth]

arisen waygate so one attempt, capped rewards at 10x the hp. One attempt per year for 2 years i think (maybe 3? not sure if it came out 2023 or 2024)

[tacit dirge]

So it will be same this Year?

[deft jacinth]

not guaranteed by it could be yes, we will know in a few days. But they are changing ornaversary , now 1 week, with minions, so we have to wait and see how the event is

[tacit dirge]

Ornaversary never was in my playtime because this month is always too busy for me to play games.

That sucks I wanted to get +20% view distance guaranteed

Helm

It will be play and pray

[heady lantern]

same or fishing and there is nothing i can do but pray

[quaint cedar]

no it wasn't

[spiral jay]

is the map supposed to change on its own in the middle of the hour? 😳 same seed, same party

[wraith zephyr]

Sometimes

[spiral jay]

I don't get it, sometimes it bugs or sometimes it is planned to do so on purpose? why?

[wraith zephyr]

One of the reason is probably the character moved that it changes the map. You might be sitting still, but your character might be GPS drifting .

It's an issue.

[spiral jay]

I see, thank you

[alpine vortex]

maps are super sensitive now, lots of people have reported it as a bug that they can be in their house not moving, and mid hour the nodes all change

in my house, i can move to 3 different rooms and get 3 different maps, other people need to move 1-2 houses down the street to get the map to change at all, it all depends on what raods are near you

[spiral jay]

and just to be sure this only changes the locations, not the amities correct? what about types of puzzle nodes?

[alpine vortex]

correct

each step of the puzzle has the same mini games.... so if you join a party:

• step 1 is the same for everyone
• step 2/3 spawns 5 mini games, 2 will be static, and 3 will snap to road, but all 5 will be the same game for everyone.

so its possible with snapping to roads, you get a battle at step 2, but then everything shifts and you now get a sin/cos puzzle

[jovial pelican]

I tried using Mnemosyne trinket and it worked you overwrite the bug

[wraith zephyr]

Nice, i am out of it lol. But it's not stuck now

[digital patio]

Anyway quick tip, if you fear messing up cause of GPS slightly moving you

Just disable the GPS once you're in the game

You'll have a stable position and amity hunt

[solemn lion]

I understand the original intent of memory hunting is to have to walk around, but the “feast or famine” of these changes based on player location is worse in every way

My suggestion is to either give us back some consistency, make couchable hunts actually repeatable within the same hour day to day, or increase the minimum distance further so that no hunts are ever couchable

[digital patio]

: or just increase the range of the nodes so that could be used from a slightly further distance in order to let some people living in "unfavourable areas" to play the content more easily

[solemn lion]

Yup, that would work with my “give us back consistency” idea

[steep pilot]

The nuclear option would be implementing these two suggestions Odie has brought up:

1. Make the question/answer have a significant and noticeable impact on the pool of possible bonuses
2. Remove couchables
   This makes it possible to hunt good amities with intention, fixes the unfairness of couchability, and resolves creep concerns raised in #1500887316397293649

I think those changes would also require Distorted Mnemonics to be available year-round (likely for a more expensive price) the same way Loomstones are going to be available year-round but much cheaper during Plight of Apollyon

[solemn lion]

I’d go even further, link seeds to players/random rather than party

[steep pilot]

If you hate community interaction, sure

Amity sharing is one of Orna's only real ways to work together with other players in an MMO-like way

I think it's an important part of the community

[digital patio]

Quick off topic, could I get one of your fools and trade it with any event raid from specific scrolls that you may need?

I hade a flashback overnight and remembered I need one lol

[steep pilot]

Sure, but lets move out of this thread for that

[solemn lion]

I do agree, I’d rather keep that and have memory hunts be more consistent

[steep pilot]

And the 'nuclear option' would make them 100% consistant for everyone. You'd always need to move.

[solemn lion]

Yup

[buoyant nest]

I think more ideally we'd get the opposite,
and maybe actually have the amities curated.

Have the seeds for amities be global (only affected by week + hour. NOT location, party, or player).
Have them on a 4-hour repeating schedule for the week
Have the actual bonuses be at least somewhat curated instead of full random.

This would

• Make sharing/scouting easier with no need to do party-based RNG manipulation
• Repeating 4-hour blocks means the "good" amities would be accessible even if it's discovered during a time you're normally asleep
• Curation would help ensure that each week there's at least something worth hunting for

And all of the above could be done without any user interface changes.
It would all just be server-side

The main long-term effort here would be some amount of weekly curation for amities.

[solemn lion]

That would be the dream tbh

[wraith zephyr]

So you are saying
40% cri,
30% dragon DMG
30% arcane DMG
Is only available in
NORTH KOREA!
DAMN IT.

[buoyant nest]

No, only available at 1am, 5am, 9am, 1pm, 5pm, 9pm
from anywhere in the world

Global = independent of factors

[wraith zephyr]

Damn, it only spawn in North Korea at those time.

[buoyant nest]

Seed would ONLY be affected by the week + hour at that point

player, party, and location would not affect the amity pool

[wraith zephyr]

So you are saying everyone get the same amity for that hour?

[buoyant nest]

yes

[wraith zephyr]

From one minigames, one final node

[buoyant nest]

and it would repeat throughout the day so that if it's discovered at like, 3am for you,
you still have a chance when you'd normally be awake (e.g. 3pm or 7pm)

[wraith zephyr]

So at 3pm, I click DM, I can get the same for one hour.

[buoyant nest]

yeah

same pool for the hour

for all players

party doesn't change it

[wraith zephyr]

That's so boring.

[buoyant nest]

Just to make sure we're on the same page,
there's more than 1 DM option in the hour

depending on answers

Just 1 pool of 25-ish amities in that case

[wraith zephyr]

Ya, so you are clicking the same thing like everyone else.

[buoyant nest]

yeah

if you're looking for teh same amity you would

[solemn lion]

I’d rather just go back to the old way tbh.
I know Odie hates couchable, but it really feels like having the ladder pulled up after the veterans have had literal years to farm them

[wraith zephyr]

So 24 hrs / 4 , 6 times you can, then you finish all the amities in a month. Then what you gonna do next month.

[buoyant nest]

With the hours being 4-hour blocks, that's only 100 different amities per week
and as we established before, there's 70.3k (or more) possible unique combinations

So the only way you run out of stuff to look for is if the only desirable amities were in the first month

and you got all of them you ever want

but that assumes all of them happened to have already occured

[wraith zephyr]

So I have to wait for one year to get all. But cri 40%+30%+30% is at the last day of the second year.

I don't think I gonna play it that long.

[buoyant nest]

Only if they repeat each year

which already doesn't really happen due to seeding changing fairly regularly?

[wraith zephyr]

70000/100 = 700 week.

[buoyant nest]

So 13-14 years?

[wraith zephyr]

Damn 5th year to get the 40% cri.

[buoyant nest]

There's a reason I said it would be good to have them at least somewhat curated instead of full random

[wraith zephyr]

10 year to get the cri 40+30 dragon DMG.
14 years to get the third bonus.

[buoyant nest]

It seems like you're unhappy with a situation where amities repeat in a year
and also unhappy if they didn't repeat each year?

I'm having trouble figuring out what you actually want.

[wraith zephyr]

I'm just thinking how to get my 40% cri + 30% DMG + 30% DMG with your method

[buoyant nest]

You try to scout it yourself, or see what people post in a chat at some point?
Since the seed can't be re-rolled, and are not party dependent, all it would take is someone bragging in #🏆│triumph-and-tragedy or #👋│general or something for you to be able to get in on that amity hunt.

Right now 40% cri + 30% DMG + 30% DMG is already virtually impossible to get anyways.

In principal, it could show up much more often (maybe once every few weeks/months) depending on how the pool would be curated.

Notably too, is that since seeds can't be re-rolled with my proposition, it is even more likely that the amity would not be couchable

And require actual walking

Which would likely make it slower to roll on it (though distorted mnemonics would help a lot with that)

[wraith zephyr]

So if I curated the pool
1st bonus 40 cri at 5th year.
Then
1+2nd bonus 40cri + 30% DMG at 8th year.
Then
1+2+3rd bonus at 10th year.

So no matter how I roll I only get it at the 10th year based on curated pool?

[buoyant nest]

If the person curating wanted to be really mean sure

It could also be once per month, or even weekly

for the 40 30 30

[split coral]

I’m worried about the impact this would have for community shared amities. For better or worse, the community already mostly only hunts couchables. Pair that with the fact that most dedicated players already have a good assortment of amities and I fear we might kill community amity sharing

[wraith zephyr]

Or he can just give us in the first day and we don't have to hunt for it ever.

[steep pilot]

So I'm not necessarily saying doing that would be a good idea. But I don't think it would kill sharing.

People only hunt couchables now because there are couchables to be hunted. If nothing is couchable then that's what everyone expects.

Back in the day we had 30+ person queues for non-couchables because people didn't only hunt couchables

[wraith zephyr]

I will just remove party sharing.

Just like how most RNG items are not Shareable.

[split coral]

But back in the day most people didn’t have a good collection of amities. Nowadays I’d argue most people have gotten most of the “basic” legendary amities they’d want to get

I also don’t think removing couchable use for farming is necessary. The amount of buffs that can be consistently stacked just needs to be reduced, mostly via reducing PoUA availability and by not overlapping memory events with Polly month

[steep pilot]

It wasn't entirely a real suggestion, but it was a suggestion that would solve the current issues.

In a way that would leave everyone a little unhappy, like a good compromise 😆

[buoyant nest]

Maybe?
But I assume you'll want more than just that one specific amity?
And it being non-couchable would also make it much harder to get.

Are you trying to say you prefer the current 1 in 8,077,932,720 odds?

[wanton topaz]

I still think the easiest solution is to massively cut base DM material gains

[wraith zephyr]

Tbh I prefer the RNG aspect. Just like how items have RNG quality.

It's 1.1 mill combination.

[grave jungle]

This + boost the “buffed” rates answers are supposed to be associated with - the fact that the community couldn’t find a correlation after years of data isn’t good

[buoyant nest]

I did 100_974_159 * 80 since it's on average estimated to be 80 hunts per 3-bonus amity.

[wanton topaz]

Sure, separate problems - for how rewarding the hunts are, cut materials. For amity hunting, there's a few tweaks that should be made

[fathom patio]

ornate amities are 1/100, confirmed by odie

[buoyant nest]

wait, maybe the 100_974_159 already had the 80 factored in

[wanton topaz]

It's kinda crazy that your location dictates whether you have 10% couchability or 90%. This needs to get fixed

[buoyant nest]

oh wait no, this was the actual exact amount of combinations once you factor in the variance in value bonuses

[fathom patio]

i don't have his message but i had john ask him in a dev qna

[wraith zephyr]

I mean there's quality in amity, so ya just like normal items 1/100.

[fathom patio]

normal items are 1/200

[lone hedge]

I thiiiink it's actually 1/90, not 1/100

[grave jungle]

Do we know/have we been told Distorted Mnemonic rates?

[lone hedge]

Better than double normal, but unsure if I'm allowed to disclose rate

tis better than double for ornate though

[wanton topaz]

0% for superior and famed

You're welcome. I've done extensive testing

[grave jungle]

0% for standard too don’t forget

Took me a minute when I returned to realize superior was the default for them lmao

[wraith zephyr]

Normal items are 1/100.

[fathom patio]

no.

[lone hedge]

1/200 for Ornate rates on normal items, i.e. gear from monsters, bosses, raids etc

[grave jungle]

Yeah the community has known 1/200 for ages now

[wraith zephyr]

Oh wait there decimal in appraiser my mistake

[wanton topaz]

That... has nothing to do with ornate chances

[lone hedge]

That is the quality of the item, not the rarity of it :)

[wanton topaz]

Not rarity nor drop rate

[lone hedge]

I know there's lots of thoughts being shared in here.
I get the couchability desires, we've acknowledged them.
There are options, but we'll likely take a step by step approach with changes to make sure we establish a feel for each of the levers we pull

The one we're looking at for now is the correlation between Answer and Amity Bonus granted. There's a current bonus applied to the chances at getting an amity bonus that aligns to the answer chosen (first line bonus only), and the next update we're thinking we'll try is boosting that rate further. Make it so you can feel the correlation, and more intuitively target the bonuses you are after

[sonic karma]

Are you still exploring removing some lesser wanted bonuses?

[lone hedge]

I get the pushback is that doesn't help party hunts as couchability is king there, but it should help some to know the final node provides the bonus you're after. We can try that and go from there 💪

Odie currently been busy finalising Ornaversary and a couple other events, hence the speed of updates on this being not super speedy

[lone hedge]

Odie talked about that - it's up to him there. Unsure if he's looking at doing multiple things at once

We did poll Aethric crowd to make sure they'd be ok with us tweaking the update to answers > bonuses, and they were on board (as you guys already established you were). So should give us the blessing to move forward with that one at least

[wanton topaz]

I think because there's so many different thoughts and suggestions it's hard to know what exactly is being considered from NF's side. Would it be possible to list the issues you guys are aware of and will look into?

[lone hedge]

Better to not overpromise on this one I think.
At the moment, it's the answer > amity bonus category bonus that we're looking to bolster

Be good if the servers played nice, bet that gave Odie a whole extra truckload of work to do

[indigo urchin]

A bit more of transparency would be lovely
I feel like this event has been one of the very few events that I feel Odie really in the outside of the conversation, idk if it's cuz ornaversary is where his efforts are going to or because he really can't make a decision about Amities. Being transparent about it would help us out, at least to me it would be great to hear what's going on on Odie's head.
He really likes to shadow drop content out of nowhere but it really really is a bad approach to game design cuz it's either hit or miss and he's very good at being on point but when it's a miss it really feels like a miss.
I've loved the game for so long that it weighs heavy when it misses, but with a team open to criticism and clear open communication for its roadmap it really doesn't bother me much when we hit a bumpy road.

[lone hedge]

Odie has 99 comments in this thread, from as recent as within the last 48 hours 😅

We're pretty open to critcism, and ok changing things. Long track record of that - we make adjustments to releases, patch them often. It's rare we never patch a thing

I've mentioned above what we'd likely target first, just here: #1499825630231920771 message

[indigo urchin]

Not just inside the event, over all
Plans over the months, a yearly map of all the events, that way new people can know what's there to discover and old players can feel more organized on which events to play more or less.
this constant drop of content out of nowhere is nowhere near my comfort zone
You could have given news about the hunt changes in advance, or build hype about loomstones. I like how the conversations we have as a community turn into almost immediate changes like color coding the final nods in amity hunts. But it's every event that something like that happens when it could be much better with just anticipation and a more open and transparent mindset about the game

I know you guys don't have to cater to me specifically but I feel like this pattern will drive people into burnout eventually. If not the players, Odie or something
It feels like chaos is happening inside the studio every time a new event gets added or something changes
And it might not be healthy in the long term

[open reef]

Even if you say it's not entirely a real suggestion: "Everyone a little unhappy" might be quite an understatement for removing all couchables.

I understand that orna originally had more GPS focus, but for a long time GPS content is rather optional, and most people do almost ONLY couchable content except conqueror guild.

I only switched from HoA to Orna after I realized that GPS is not mandatory. It's not that I am not going outside, but outside I am usually with family or friends, which means no mobile phone (except while commuting or traveling, but even if that's working for settlements, it is not for memory hunts).

I don't expect that the game is catering my personal preferences, but my experience is that many (probably most?) players are not willing to regularly hunt non couchables, which means this change would simply remove this content for a large share of the player base.

[lone hedge]

Fwiw, Odie hasn't inferred removing couchability all together.

The opposite is more true, he wanted a benchmark that feels ok to the studio, around 20% was his last comment on it. He ran simulations at a bunch of random locations and hit couchability around 22%

[steep pilot]

It was said in jest, I think

This was when there was a discussion about the massive material bloat caused by stacking boosters and spamming DMs

[lone hedge]

We're not looking to remove couchability entirely from what I know, Mr Um Actually haha

[steep pilot]

Richard was replying to me, where I said a nuclear option would be removing couchables for everyone.

A complaint right now is that some people's OTs basically guarantee couchability, while other people's basically guarantee things will almost never be couchable

[lone hedge]

I know the response was to you, just want to make sure we don't get too stressed about something the studio isn't going after.

Got to manage a mass perception here :)

[indigo urchin]

Include in that almost nothing is couchable OT people

[solemn lion]

Problem with this is it’s definitely way less than 20% for some, and can’t even be mitigated by sharing now

[steep pilot]

22% was the rate for randomly chosen points in Ontario.

For my OT it's more like 90%

For some people it's literally only going to be when 3 static questions and one of the two static nodes all spawn within 250m. I don't know the rate on that but it's very low

[lone hedge]

Yep, definitely understood.
The couchability concern is something that you guys have done a good job raising, and we understand is something you want tackled.

[solemn lion]

Thank you for at least confirming y’all are hearing the complaints

Feels much less like screaming into the void

[lone hedge]

Have acknowledged the couchability concern quite a few times in here myself, and Odie has also.
Can search for posts from us if you're ever feeling that way

[solemn lion]

Probably my biggest gripe is the big changes getting dropped on the memory hunting event. If y’all are actually tracking metrics like started vs completed memory hunts, it’s going to skew pretty badly as people try to push through them despite the major issues

That, and missing out on really maximizing the event buffs due to being much less able to complete hunts vs previously 🙁

[lone hedge]

Player sentiment drives most the base game feature changes.
Memory Hunts were a disengagement point for many early game users, it was really unintuitive to them that they couldn't use roads, that they would consider expected travel routes for a GPS game.

The older system benefits causes issues for folks who were really in tune with it, which is a more vocal crowd here on discord undoubtedly, but isn't the entire playerbase.

It's a good idea to pair up improvements to base systems during events that we're tying to them - and it's good for everyone. This highlights system gaps, and possible improvement further

Couchability was never a high priority for us, but we understand why it is to some of the playerbase. Not sure it's what we want to fully lean into, but we won't get rid of it

[solemn lion]

It’s a big loss of orns and mats for t9/pre-endless t10 players, hopefully we can get a refresh on some other content to bring it close to that one of these days

[lone hedge]

This is definitely the sort of thing that needs to be clear, and I know folks have inferred it but it's kind of the secondary point more than the main point.
Probably worth being clear about: Are people more concerned about couchability for

1. Orns and Materials
   or
2. Amities

If it's the former, that's a whole different discussion, and there's no reason that Memory Hunts needs to be the place that farming Orns and Mats needs to be

[solemn lion]

For me personally, 1 by far.

Amity sharing is still possible, just a bit more difficult

[coral dagger]

As a fairly new player (little over a year) it feels like memory hunts are the best form of materials when it comes to daily gameplay loop. Amities just become a byproduct of the activity once you are in a good place with them (I still need better amities).

Materials -> Orns -> Amities in that order for me.

[indigo urchin]

It's amities>materials>orns for me

Very surprising from the amity guy huh

[fathom patio]

very surprising for a kat

[open reef]

A) For solo hunting: mats
B) For cooperative hunting: amities

For A, it's ok to have only one couchable and do it again and again (even if it's boring) - particularly when combined with consumables like elysian coins.

For B, I would say couchability helps a lot (particularly for getting legendary) but reproducibility is even more important.

[craggy whale]

For me: Amities > Gold > G.XP >>> Materials = Orns

[alpine vortex]

Let's just say in the 1000-2000s of amity 100s of people spammed over the week, I've seen a handful of decent legendary, and 0 ornate that were anything other than just okay.

I personally do amity hunts for the power they give, not the mats/orn. And I feel a lot of people just don't expect to ever find really good amity in the current system.

[buoyant nest]

Agreed. The thing I want most from it is good legendary/ornate amities,
but I don't really expect to find them so my DMs are mostly piling up.

[solid tundra]

Yea I'd prefer better amities if it meant less materials and orns. Materials are easily gained from guilds or just playing the game, orns less so but can still be earned from just playing

[wraith zephyr]

Generally I just enjoy hunting for amities.

Materials/orns just a byproduct.

I don't even use buff during the surrounded event. I just use my POUA after, still got 1 day ++ left.

The mats/orns that other ppl get wasn't my concern.

The current system gave me chance to play this content and a chance to get higher AL.

Love,
loomstone,
Distorted M.
Shorter steps, which odie was concern that the mats wasn't enough, but now everyone getting a lot.
Colour coded final nodes, feedback from community.
And lastly
The new amities, wish it was not locked behind an event shop. But it's good that it did too.

[coral dagger]

Yeah, if it were easier to get better amities, I would definitely grind it better.

A suggestion would be making you walk a certain distance to improve quality. Maybe you have the 5 closer ones that are color coded now, and then 5 farther ones that have high potency for the bonuses and rarity.

[split coral]

Let’s be honest here though: the change to answers matching with amity results would have to be VERY significant to make it even worth the change. And, if that happens, community parties will just find start finding busted amities left and right. I don’t think it’ll be easy to balance amities giving bonuses matching their question to a point where you can make them both balanced for solo play and community sharing.

That’s mostly why I’m not a huge fan of gutting mat/orn gains. I truly believe it’ll be hell to balance the whole “question -> certain bonus” idea to where it won’t be either close to useless or too good

[wraith zephyr]

Ya pro and con.
But intuitively as a new player, I expected the answered to be related.

It don't have to be like 100% but it should be significantly enough so that I won't be disappointed by it.

Imagine their first amity, they found 1 final nodes. Check the question, then click the answer that they think it will come out with something related, then realize it's not.

The negative psychology behind it might hinder their interest in the game.

The same applies to zooming out during hunt then realize they can't click on the nodes even though their character touches the circle.

[indigo urchin]

Name dropping psychology like that bothers me a bit ngl

[wraith zephyr]

The fear of losing out shall haunt you forever!

God Almighty, strike this man with fear for RNG!

[indigo urchin]

I fear rng deeply cuz why if I randomly combust like the others?

Spontaneous combustion is scary

[buoyant nest]

people being able to reliably find "busted" amities through coordination is preferable to the current situation IMO

[wraith zephyr]

And you become the busted man.

[wanton topaz]

For me couchability is critical for amity sharing first and foremost

[heady lantern]

Yeah being able to share amities is the only way to get newer players caught up. I did a bunch of amities over the last event and I don't think I even got a single 40% Crit.

[pseudo topaz]

Is this a fire force reference

[wraith zephyr]

Does new player cares about getting the 40% cri or getting their first ornate? I personally was excited getting my first ornate even though is bad. Then realize there's party sharing.

If weighted answer can increase the ornate chance, that would be awesome for the new player.

Then after that they are introduced to 40% cri through party sharing.

One thing I was curious is that, is it possible for party leader having an innate increase chance quality (even if it's low) ?
So that solo players who don't party will always have higher chance of getting ornate.

[indigo urchin]

What's fire force?

[buoyant nest]

anime

I think

[eager canopy]

That's because i suggested that yesterday after trial and error

I do not support removing couch hours honestly that be kinda a D move given their is a massive community that loves memory hunting

[past knot]

some places are just not very safe to walk around :\

and some desirable amities might happen during inconvenient hours

[indigo urchin]

I'm telling you man
The game loves it's highways

It's literally a straight line 💀

[digital patio]

Go for a walk on the highway, take the dog and the baby on a stroller for such a great family time

The game also loves railways in case you're feeling extra spicy

[indigo urchin]

At night it's mostly empty
You're onto something

[digital patio]

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-elite-elite-ball-elite-ball-knowledge-ball-knowledge-gif-9337371460101398527

[past knot]

🐴🐴🐴

hold these

[wraith zephyr]

Just some tricks I used to scout, in case someone needs it.

I use this to scout next hour final nodes.

1. Activate a DM that's couchable.
2. Finish the minigames and stop at step 3 without finishing it.
3. Wait for next hour, then finish the step 3 mini games.

Magic! U got the final node of the next hour.

[split nest]

A timeless classic for amity hunting

[wide thistle]

Thats also a way to make a non-couchable, couchable

[spiral jay]

Odie would it be possible to buff the amount of "Fragments of olympic memory” from the memory hunts now that they are 4 step, not 5 please?

Not sure if it was overlooked but the rate seems pretty low now, I often get just 1-2 per step 😓

[wraith zephyr]

Wait I got 2-4

[quaint cedar]

if the cap is 4 and it was 5 steps,
seems fair to make the cap 5 given it's now 4 steps ;)

[spiral jay]

3-5 would be fair. Or lowering the key cost from 25 to 20.

Problem is that it feels much harder to get a couchable and if you do, it often bugs and changes to non-couchable map anyway 😅 so the fragment amount we get from mnemonics is already worse on average even without the cut step.

[sweet mesa]

You can also get them from running towers, even just running some small 20-30 floor towers you'll get tons

[dusky crypt]

I only have one complaint when walking a hunt-

The camps should (maybe?) spawn in all cardinal directions if possible

Mine seem very good at spawning in 1-2 directions but not 4 and so walking isn’t super practical. I don’t want to veer half a kilometer off of my walk just to click one node but then need to walk back to continue only to do it again a few minutes later

Overall I appreciate the sticking to roads but I wonder if there’s a way to make the make the camps shift a bit if a single direction is being traveled? Or somehow to improve this road lock? I suppose if a road someone walks on doesn’t use cardinal directions then just locking it to those might just cause the same issue for others

[wraith zephyr]

+1 for search!

[wide thistle]

A reduction in tower cooldown for event be nice too

[split coral]

Either that or an increase in spawns like we saw with Thronemakers

[wraith zephyr]

Odie already increase the spawn for monument and towers

[spiral jay]

when

[steep pilot]

He did not

[spiral jay]

that was for the previous event

[wraith zephyr]

Beside the buff... I remember the spawn rate was increased?

[steep pilot]

Nope

That was a tempory effect during Thronemakers, it had a timer and everything

[deft jacinth]

Being blocked by perfect baldur even with thousands of BGs done lifetime should clarify how crazy AL-ing with mnemonics can be, it overshadows everything else you did in the game basically

[wraith zephyr]

What's BG?

[deft jacinth]

battlegrounds that generate a massive amount of perfect baldur

we have 3 perma in hoa (2 until like a year ago) so it's staple for double eod and godforging chances (or at least it was early on, then anguish and all other updates changed things a lot)

[alpine vortex]

Any updates on the question / weights ?

[next furnace]

And roads inportance, I would say.
The contents still stick to high traffic roads😭

[wraith zephyr]

Priority will always be given to higher traffic road

[alpine vortex]

People are allowed to say they feel there is an issue with it still prioritizeing major free ways over local roads. Please don't tell people what should and shouldn't be.

[wraith zephyr]

I'm just stating a fact.

[indigo urchin]

yes drama

[wraith zephyr]

Am I not allowed to stat a fact mentioned by odie?

[indigo urchin]

i don't understand why trex said that tho

so idk

[wraith zephyr]

God complex lol.

[alpine vortex]

no

im just tired of you trying to tell people the way things should be

[split coral]

Odie stating it doesn’t mean it can’t be changed if enough community feedback says something different is preferred

[alpine vortex]

Heres where we are at a a community:

The new system set out to fix a problem, new people cant finish memory hunts due to nodes spawning in bad locations. To do this it chose to snap to roads. On paper this fixes the issue of nodes spawning in bad locations you cant get to. In practice it has several major issues.

• 3/5 nodes at steps 2, 3, 4 all spawn on roads, and currently they prioritize highways due to the number of points of interest they have. This leads to nodes clustering in areas that arent necessarily safe to walk on.
• to a lot of people, the new system is very much feast for famine. My house seems to be a feast, but my work feels like a famine.
• Under the new system, if you have no roads with ~350m you default to the old system of things being 100% predictable, with only having to deal with water. This lets you know that some nodes would spawn in a couchable distance without roads, but for w/e reason they are moving from <250 to >250 away. This again is going against the initial goal of 'new people are having issues with memory hunts'. It feels like it goes against the whole point

All that said there is tons of good in the new system, and with the potential to increase the weights of question-> reward would make the whole thing more intuitive.

My main issues with the current system is its harder to do as a community, and the end results are the same as before, with 99% of nodes being junk.

I can deal with walking more if the rewards are better.

I also feel like if nodes couldn't cluster on major highway/intersections, and were forced to spread out/use smaller roads/didn't ever move further away, a lot of these issues would be greatly reduced.

The goods:

• npc are stronger - i dont think they are strong enough once we go back to regular mobs, but with the current event npc they do feel like they help more. They might need fewer moves to force them to be more helpful once we go back to nidhogs and pegasus though
• 4 steps makes things quicker, we can repeat more per hour hunting for ornates
• the shrine buff for ornate hunting is amazing
• the color system makes scouting and hunting so much faster now that you dont need to check the individual witches for their question
• its easier to map 5/5 if people are willing to hunt and check nodes
• distorted are amazing for legendary

The bads:

• its not any easier to find good amity
• nodes tend to snap to highways over small roads
• nodes tend to cluster up instead of spreading out
• nodes that would be <250 can now move away from you in order to snap to roads
• its very much dependent on your local road system on if you will 'feast' or 'famine'
• distorted ornate rates feel about 2x normal DM, but cost 5x, they could probably use their ornate rates to be 5x

[next furnace]

of course, who doesn't like to cross an high-traffic highway while walking looking at the phone.

[wraith zephyr]

Damn I didn't know i wasn't part of the community if I like the new system...

[steep pilot]

Are you choosing to misread and talk for the sake of talking?

[steep pilot]

Regarding this, this is not what Odie said. Odie said that larger (multi-lane) roads have more geometry data so statistically are more likely to get nodes. That does not mean that priority will always be given to higher traffic roads, nor does it mean going to higher traffic roads is intentional

[wraith zephyr]

I mention about the witch hut being spawn at some weird nodes which odie replied it's most likely due to higher traffic.

That nodes I mention is actually security gate nodes stated in the OSM.

And majoriry of my spawn are at those security gates.

And based on trex map and him mentioning that it seems like it spawn at nodes at junctions.

Hence I stated that the system prioritize high traffic road.

Wow so now I can't speculate and state what I think about the roads.

Damnnnn

[craggy whale]

Lost Memory (all three) should probably be put a tier or two higher than they currently are. Currently they are disproportionately difficult to kill and offer little reward for doing so. Increasing their tier would at least have their power make more sense, and boost the rewards given for killing them.

[fathom patio]

no one said that

[wraith zephyr]

The implications are there.

[fathom patio]

you're trying to make yourself a victim in a normal everyday discussion thread. please continue to give your opinions and suggest things. Odds are not everyone will agree and that's fine

[indigo urchin]

ñomñomñom mini drama

[alpine vortex]

Is this because the alley/npc version of them was buffed, or has it always been this way at lower tier's? Because at higher tiers, they have always been cannon fodder compared to some of the t10 berserk options.

I also think it would make sense if the mystic cave version of lost memories had a rare chance to drop DM as well

[craggy whale]

Because of the buff they got. They were pretty easy to kill on-tier before, now they're a good bit more obnoxious.

[alpine vortex]

if they share stats with the npc/alley version then yeah, thats a huge punishment for lower tiers, maybe reducing their stats back to before, then just added arisen lost memories for t9/10

[alpine vortex]

here are 3 maps (no roads, everything works like the old system), roads ~350m (pulls away all non static nodes), and "hobo under the bridge" that uses 2 freeway intersections to make almost almost every hour couchable. map 1/2 are only about 50m off from each other.

Same party, same hour. map 2 is the 'famine" map, and map 3 is the "feast" map. Map1 and Map3 were 100% couchable via mini games, map2 was not couchable at steps2/3.

For the hobo map, its an intersection of 6 lanes (3 north 3 south) with a free way (9 east / 9 west.)

So go boys, setup your tents / find a bush and you too can be hobo kings.

No road (map1)

Famine (map 2)

Hobo (map 3)

[sonic karma]

https://klipy.com/gifs/the-simpsons-finally

[alpine vortex]

here is the same map in open street maps. You can see there are plenty of roads, but the hobo life is the life we choose

[sonic karma]

There's a bucees near by, I can sense it

[alpine vortex]

there is

1 exit NW of me

[indigo urchin]

Let's goo highway meta

Careful with doxing yourself boss

[sonic karma]

idk if homeless people can be doxed

[alpine vortex]

thats a target/walmart across the street from each other..... no one is gonna judge you for sitting in a car at either spot, and my house is 10 miles from there :-p

[wraith zephyr]

Map 2 is my current map. Because all the intersection was funnily slightly away from me.
Most of the nodes are like red/orange circle that I can't touch it in map 2.

[steep pilot]

Man the Texas Frontage Road meta is real

Other places don't have those but they give you extra intersections

[sonic karma]

The conspiracy that this is being funded by Target gets more truth every day

[wraith zephyr]

U sure it's not just me trying to bait u into trap?
Hahaha

[alpine vortex]

Our frontage roads are the size of some places highways

[queen coyote]

Any thought on adding the hh:mm time next to the date on an amity?

If the goal is to make memory hunting more accessible to the casuals who are not mapping, I think having the hour it was found would be helpful

[wraith zephyr]

That would be so interesting.....

And the time is based on the international time.

[queen coyote]

Or maybe have a memory hunting heat map of sorts that resets every week... and it's based on the number of questions you've answered each hour

To give an idea of which hours you've already done and which hours you can hunt at

[wraith zephyr]

That's sounds like a lot of coding. Lol

But a bingo card for amity hunting?

That's interesting.

[digital patio]

To me it's still hilarious how this solution was introduced to avoid people walking into woods or abandoned areas. Now we're walking on highways and railways 👌

Residential roads are not preferable according to the algorithm

[wraith zephyr]

Railways? Damnnnnn

[digital patio]

Yup the train station nearby home is a goldmine for amities

Considering it crosses a main road they're just spawning around it, which makes that impossible to reach from home

They're like magnet

[wraith zephyr]

Tbh, odie really need to hard code residential tag in.

[steep pilot]

Ah, but you're GPSing to get to the railway or highway

I do agree that the new system has some big flaws with how nodes spawn. It's workable though, so I don't know if we'll see changes

[digital patio]

My house is in a weird shadow area in terms of GPS so I wiggle around quite often and end up there every now and then

[steep pilot]

GPS drift has the word GPS in it so it must be GPS content

[digital patio]

https://tenor.com/view/han-tokyodrift-gif-8353630

Fast&spoofing GPS drift

[wraith zephyr]

Wiggle... Lol

Whether the nodes spawn on highway is random or not, we need more evidence that it is.

I thought OSM have no traffic data?

[digital patio]

There's no traffic data but roads are mapped and classified as primary , secondary and more categories or subcategories as well

[wraith zephyr]

Oh ok. So primary is the priority.....

[digital patio]

Looks like, cause around my house they're all classified as residential

Then there's a secondary road 2-300m E, a primary 300m N and the train station about 200 NE

[steep pilot]

I'm not 100% convinced on that, since in the area directly around my house everything is residential or sidewalk and things don't seem to stick to the secondary road a bit farther out

[digital patio]

So the final results is this kind of crown of nodes far from me

[digital patio]

If you don't have better options then sure you'll get them

But if you've a mix then the high priority will drag them away from residential

[steep pilot]

It is is a mix

My data might be skewed though because of the absolute nonsensical way that all the sidewalks in the area are mapped as separate from the road

[digital patio]

Sidewalk meta

[steep pilot]

I hate it. I raised it in an OSM discussion though and was told it was a valid way to map sidewalks so I can't delete/fix it

[digital patio]

Anyways that's the result of running tests on something relevant without using a closed beta that grants you a wide pool of players from different countries and areas instead of a close circle of friends living in the cities of NA

[steep pilot]

There was no ORN beta or private beta of any kind

[digital patio]

Well odie mentioned that tests were done prior release

I don't know who tested it

[steep pilot]

Rather than friends, you might be referring to "Employees" 😆

[digital patio]

A small indie company is like a family

[wraith zephyr]

I guess I'm going to be stuck at the security gate meta.

[digital patio]

Apply for a job as a security guard at the gate

Salary+amities

https://tenor.com/view/stonks-up-stongs-meme-stocks-gif-15715298

[wraith zephyr]

Well way better than a hobo under the highway meta.

There's also a bad neighbouhood meta by one of the South America players.

He told me he can't walk there, he might get shoot.

[digital patio]

You mean the driver?

The guy into conquering that gets taxi rides through the favelas and so?

[wraith zephyr]

Lolll

[wraith zephyr]

Wait someone went through that?????

[alpine vortex]

If not....then why?

[wanton topaz]

The current couchability situation is pretty awful tbh - some people will just get everything couchable and some people will get basically nothing couchable just by virtue of their place of residence. I would not call that workable, it's pretty imbalanced

[digital patio]

Orna p2w based on where you can afford to live

[alpine vortex]

Hobo houses are free.....so it's more pay to lose....cause my work is aweful.....and that's before I even consider orna or amity hunts

[digital patio]

Orna ft LinkedIn Collab when?

[steep pilot]

Not again

There's a history with Orna and LinkedIn

[solid tundra]

"Passionate Realmshifter looking for work as GPS tester. Willing to relocate."

[buoyant nest]

Related to the couchability changes
Traveller's guild can make all memory hunts couch-able for 12 hours starting next month (as the 10k steps bonus).

[wraith zephyr]

Best update for memory hunt!

[alpine vortex]

I'd still argue that even with 100% couchable it doesn't fix the biggest issue. That most amity you find are not worth legendary or ornate hunting.

The weights to the questions meaning more would go a long way to help old and new players looking for specific amity/combos.

[split coral]

This change is, however, excellent for community sharing. You can now scout far more nodes everywhere and everyone that puts in the steps gets to try for them when something worthwhile is found

[wanton topaz]

This change also seems to have hard-capped max VD to 1600 for some reason

[wraith zephyr]

I dunno why though lol

[heady lantern]

Yeah would much rather VD be extended than capped.

[wanton topaz]

Someone go report it as a bug

[wraith zephyr]

It's not a bug based on what the mod say

[wanton topaz]

I don't know what you mean, and it doesn't matter - should be reported anyway

The only person who really knows if it's a bug is Odie 😂

[wraith zephyr]

Mass report bug!

[lone hedge]

It's in our newsletter and video, not a big

VD would get too silly with the new bonuses coming

[wraith zephyr]

Didn't affect me much because my VD are limited by my phone hahahaha

[wanton topaz]

My VD's been nerfed 🙁

[azure anvil]

Yeah some lost almost 200 vd

But lets look at it this way, higher base vd for the whole day rather than 1 hour of huge vd

I went through all the emotions on the patreon cord when i asked this 😥

1531 will now be max VD (with just bb1 amity) before popping brazier, ill take this tradeoff personally

After 3k steps of course

(Those WITH the bb1-vd amity will never need the brazier btw)

[split coral]

It’s okay to keep it in check, but IMO it should at least be capped at the current max VD, nerfing VD seems weird and unnecessary

[heady lantern]

I used to get a little over 1700m VD for one hour of the day. Now the max will be 1760. Is that really much different from 1870 for one hour of the day. Its really nice to try to grab towers around your OT when you are stuck at home.

[split coral]

Max now is 1600, it’s already hard capped in live

[heady lantern]

Even with the new walking buffs we cant get over 1600 now????

[split coral]

This is me on dorado with torch, farsight, brazier, bb1+VD, gazer and seeker

It’s actually pretty significant because I have a couple dungeons I can only see slightly above 1.6k vd at home. I don’t really see the point of nerfing what was already achievable

[azure anvil]

I asked this and i got an answer saying 1600 will stay cap

[heady lantern]

Cant wait for the new discussion thread to land.

[split coral]

I really can’t understand the logic behind that. It’s even another shot at RS, a class that already doesn’t have much going for it

[alpine vortex]

My stonks for bb1+ vd1 just went down

Luckily I'm only at 1279 on beoh.... So I still get an extra 321

[spring orchid]

It’s in the patch notes fyi. Please don’t bug report

[wanton topaz]

What patch notes

[spring orchid]

Oh, interesting

They’re not rendering 😂

But yeah, the note is in there. invisible ink apparently

[wanton topaz]

I hadn't even checked ingame, just in discord lol

[wanton topaz]

I actually want to report a different bug but Samson isn't responding lol

[solemn lion]

Answer weights have been added according to patch notes 🤔

[lone hedge]

They always existed, just provided a bigger bonus now

[solemn lion]

Can you share how big the weight is vs getting a random result?

[wanton topaz]

It used to be 3-fold chances (but that was miniscule since there were so many effects)

[drifting python]

Happy the undesirables were removed tbh 🤑

[solemn lion]

Kinda a odd choice not to have the answers 100% weighted so it’s at least reasonably possible to target what you’re hunting for

[zenith oracle]

bufr pact amity

[solemn lion]

Real

[alpine vortex]

I feel like there are still quite a few undesirable left.

I also don't feel like the increased weights are anywhere near high enough imho. I'll give this part time to see but I still don't think the average player is gonna find anything good without community parties to scout it first.

My ideal situation is probably close to ganryo where each question can only have a small handful of possibilities for the primary