3.17 Spiked Shield & Gilga Changes

[west verge]

i voted yes to ship. im also saying lol to this video

[tawny sparrow]

You don't have frenzy button?

[languid yoke]

ios i think

[west verge]

ios

does frenzy double that?

[cunning canopy]

Frenzy make cd chance 100% if I'm not mistaken..

[west verge]

cd chance isnt helping me here

but it doesnt matter this horse is long dead

[late oracle]

That's a lot of buffs on a very high end gilga for those numbers

[west verge]

i will demo what the equivalent in live looks like

[pseudo sonnet]

isnt it +50% damage also with frenzy?

[west verge]

someone says its CD chance

i have no idea

[cunning canopy]

Along with spike shield, CS, shield bash damage I guess..

[late oracle]

Its both but I think drain rate of frenzy isn't great for facilitating SS skils

[thin tiger]

^ live?

[west verge]

This one is beta

Two hander SS theme is best raider

[west verge]

Yes

My bad I thought that first one had DC in it

[late oracle]

Spiked shield best build is no shield?

[west verge]

I’m going to get someone to tell me I’m a tank and I shouldn’t do as much as a glass cannon again but like

[half karma]

Frenzy + CS drains about 70% of my ward in 1 turn i really dislike that 🫠

[gritty plinth]

Does seem a little concerning that sgs is not bis for ss

But I'd rather see someone with 100k ward dealing 6mil than 600kward dealing 4mil (or 17-22mil)

[broken bough]

will nerf again 🫡

[west verge]

this is now cannon copy pasta

[placid sedge]

My 2 pennies are that SS got a good nerf but...

1. Is partially too Att reliant and invalidates Ward gearing and the likes for SS which is counterintuitive but also hurts build diversity as well. Original suggestions were always along the lines of making the gear matter more and ALs less for this reason.

2. The damage leans a bit closer to too low for what it offers rn then too high. NOT by a large margin but likely is hurt a bit too much and could use

I wont even propose changes because I have little to no idea whats going on in terms of SS formulas and this isnt my forte but making the gear slightly more meaningful in the calc also giving it a nudge of improved performance damage wise as a result and could mend the damage it does to gearing options aswell.

[west verge]

id love to have an option, in any combination of gear, spec, amities and buffs, that allows me to get closer to where I was before, without even running maximum damage amities

the two hander build has 31,000 attack

any ways last death rattle before settling in

one final meme

the other reality is this patch should be nerfing all raiding builds once elemental becomes additive

US/Ultima rely heavily on that mechanic

perhaps being the "tank" will be more viable in anguish 2,0

🚢

[cunning canopy]

Fuel cost too high..

[placid sedge]

beautiful nature sounds, 10/10 video thankyou for sharing

[cunning canopy]

That'a in 0 AL..
I'll try to raise it..

[west verge]

@pseudo sonnet @hazy comet the current version of the patch still has fixed miss chance as far as I can tell

[small tiger]

I hope gilga doesnt get too strong

Fr

[west verge]

this is what turn 1 damage looks like in pvp

of course im hitting my self on a swash build

id expect someone tanky to reduce it to 200k range

[small tiger]

Still so much damage

[half karma]

Since SS is nerfed give us elementally imbued SS (water, fire, lightning, earth) to tackle phys immunities in dungeons. Dmg will be reduced because of elemental malus 🥲

[mint holly]

This is great

[small tiger]

Gilga thread is new mague thread

Next gilga gonna get flasks too xd

Even mw is here

[signal heron]

(It's nothing like flasks the button is just in the same place)

[gritty plinth]

I think the primary issue with ss has been the crazy damage output, the secondary is how much ward ss builds get with it. So I don't feel like getting your beta damage close to live is intended

[small tiger]

I meant because the chatgpt xd

[signal heron]

Do we have an ascension 160+ Heretic in chat?

Or, I guess, in the game at all?

[small tiger]

Wheres tubbug when you need him :/

[gritty plinth]

Wrecked is close?

Tubb is 190ish yeah

[placid sedge]

TUbb

[signal heron]

I forgot Wrecked was back on Heretic

Idk how I forgot

[placid sedge]

Oh idk Wreck was Hera

@Untold Attrocity

[signal heron]

If someone with absurdly high AL could just make a Heretic raid nuke build the same way Ensseric made a raid nuke build, it's a fair comparison

[placid sedge]

Get wrecked in here and then Enss, Wrecked and I can run comparisons of all 3 main classes 😏 easy balnce patch results

[half karma]

Balancing with whole playerbase in mind ❌
Balance with top 0.1% in mind ✅

Its a joke BEE TEE DUBS

[signal heron]

Ideally we have people from all ALs making comparisons

But, this thread is a lot of discussion and not a lot of show and tell

[haughty turtle]

The 0.1% seem to be the only ones invested enough to actually run tests in the beta 🤷‍♂️

[late oracle]

Wrecked did post videos in here earlier it was like 4.5m QC ultima with 2 turns of buff

[gritty plinth]

For 1 turn dps, it's either ultima or chakram

[small tiger]

Isnt that always the way it is xd

[signal heron]

Ok, so that seems a lot stronger than what Ensseric posted for Gilga

[small tiger]

Pls nerf gilga more

[west verge]

i didnt want to but i can hoc on beta, no idea what my heretic will end up at

[small tiger]

I wanna use it

[late oracle]

#1370141629444395028 message

[haughty turtle]

Just warming up for the HoC on live

[gritty plinth]

Yeah idk, it feels like we go from "not enough" to "too much" on ss constantly

[west verge]

ive got 3 of them thanks conq guild

[gritty plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-downey-jr-frustrated-rdj-gif-15041423

[small tiger]

I want gilga to be a tanky boy.. idk if damage is really that important to me personally

Not sure what community sentiment is on that

[gritty plinth]

I don't think many people want gilga to be relegated to a tank. It's a good meme

[haughty turtle]

Playing an actual tank with no damage sounds cool in theory but terribly boring in practice

[signal heron]

Gilga does actually need to be able to play Orna

[gritty plinth]

Frenzy has potential for solving this

[placid sedge]

Its not a group raiding MMO

[pseudo sonnet]

First nerf for SS ever so it's a step in the right direction. (The crit change was actually a buff because then you didn't need ashens in your build)

[onyx tulip]

Gilga feels like it should be more like a barbarian or a cleave warrior if you get the Blizzard Ref - Dual Weild 2H weapons When?

[placid sedge]

has anyone suggested adding trading?

[west verge]

okay ^

left, beta. right live

[signal heron]

Your left numbers are worse than me on Realmshifter

[west verge]

live is using 50% max dmg amity, one heart in the axe for max dmg limit

[haughty turtle]

Dropping 3 zerks to do under 2M is crazy at 180+ AL

[onyx tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-mr-krabs-days-without-nonsense-gif-26130271

[west verge]

beta is using an additional elemental amity, and another selene hand

[signal heron]

That's crazy at 50 AL

[west verge]

the tree there is doing demise of course

but like

at least i can tank it now

before man i didnt know what i would do

[placid sedge]

look at this and Enss's following comments. This skill is objectively uselss in PvE

[gritty plinth]

Aren't you supposed to build towards attack in beta

[placid sedge]

Might aswell not exist

[gritty plinth]

It can't be a comparison using the same ward build as live

[signal heron]

What's your attack stat Ensseric?

[west verge]

is 12k not enough attack for you?

[placid sedge]

Spiked Shields whole point is building ward, why is its best use case using it like any other Att based skill. It serves no point in existing at that point

[signal heron]

Yeah 12k attack is a huge amount of attack

[smoky tusk]

Yep

[gritty plinth]

Is it huge for 187 al

I have no clue

[onyx tulip]

Didn't someone have a 21K attack in here earlier?

[signal heron]

Ensserric had 30k attack earlier

But that doesn't really change how much damage someone would expect to do at 12k

Your attack <-> damage ratio doesn't get lower at higher AL

[haughty turtle]

And even the 30k one wasn’t faring much better

[west verge]

what does the m2 ward contribution cap at. 200k?

[smoky tusk]

What would be a good number with 186 Als? For spiked shield??

[gritty plinth]

How do other gilga skills compare on these build? How much damage does hs3 or whatever deal using the same setups

[west verge]

lol

[placid sedge]

Despite the fact that SS is practically useless at this point. You use SS to build Ward adn be tanky why tf is its only viable use with tons of Att. may aswell use daggers or other Att skills like that

[signal heron]

I knew the answer like 5 iterations ago but now it's a mystery

[placid sedge]

somewhat below averaging those 2 videos would be a simplish solution

[small tiger]

Maybe if party play needed a tank 🥲

[signal heron]

As an aside, it's funny that it's the Realmshifter crew in here defending Gilga and trying to keep it good 😆

[gritty plinth]

The point is that you don't need to build as much towards ward

[haughty turtle]

They’d still need to be able to play the game as a solo player though

[signal heron]

Orna is a solo game with party play

[placid sedge]

I hate modern SS but I dont want Gilga to get the treatment we got. We were Gilgalite for how long, they shouldnt now become Realmlite

[signal heron]

It's not a party game that you can play solo

[smoky tusk]

If Odie nerfs gilga then we're next

[haughty turtle]

I think realm is far down the list of classes needing nerfs atm 😅

[half karma]

Any1 knows the %ward consumed in SS 1, 2, 3 and CS currently in beta?

[gritty plinth]

Make sure y'allvote against going live btw

[small tiger]

Por que no los dos xd

[gritty plinth]

#1370416842065313852 message

[mint holly]

No. It Vesta atm

[placid sedge]

Make Gilgas use SS the way its intended and then why not go live 🤷‍♂️ I think SS is the only disater that needs ironed out then may aswell go live

[placid sedge]

but this should not hit live

[gritty plinth]

I meant single-turn usage, not max 1 turn dmg

[mint holly]

Jeez. I’m late again

[small tiger]

What do you mean by intended btw? For gilga

[gritty plinth]

Like spammable

[mint holly]

Oh got ya

Then yeah

[signal heron]

Fey Chimera seems broken in beta 🤔

Only relevant in this thread because I'm trying to perform testing

[smoky tusk]

Why?

[signal heron]

It's doing literally nothing

[placid sedge]

Make it actually reward using and building tanky/ward gear and not just build like a RS and then make it do a medium amount of damage instead of hitting less then an AL0 Heraa

[signal heron]

And no I'm not using Selene Hands

[onyx tulip]

Did the selene... ok nm hah

[gritty plinth]

Are you sure 😂

[signal heron]

Yeah I have five prom hands

I'm trying to do raid tests lol

[smoky tusk]

Mine works, against cactus

[small tiger]

Any particular content? Idk what gilga is supposed to be used for (i expect no one really knows with all the changes happening), but theres gotta be a reason the team is implementing changes

[gritty plinth]

Did it cast zerk

[placid sedge]

Mines fine in a raid, Maluses or something maybe?

[gritty plinth]

Is the raid immune to dragon? Dumb questions but it's a dumb problem

[signal heron]

All I want is berserk

[pseudo sonnet]

Try to do one where it's not using tree of demise. @west verge

[signal heron]

I'm so confused

[smoky tusk]

My FChimera worked in anguish 2 lyncus

[placid sedge]

this doesnt ping someone afaik btw

[signal heron]

I tried against Fey Chimera and Fey Yeti

[smoky tusk]

Maybe you have a malus, or bad luck

[pseudo sonnet]

When you have frenzy it should hit 50% harder also

[placid sedge]

Ang Malus, AMity Malus, Beo Charms lol

[west verge]

is it 50% dmg buff

or just CD

or both

[signal heron]

Both

[signal heron]

Yeah it does nothing in different gear against the training cactus either

My Fey Chimera is simply defective

[west verge]

oh

damnit

i dont have enough mana to cast dc

[placid sedge]

release and buy another?

[west verge]

oops

[signal heron]

I put it in the keep and took it out and it still doesn't work

[west verge]

lol

[placid sedge]

Release that fucker

[west verge]

press the pet button

[gritty plinth]

Did you feed it today

[signal heron]

Ok my Arisen Stonewarg works

[placid sedge]

Mine was freshly purchased maybe yours is simply an older defective chimera

[signal heron]

This is actually really really weird

I just bought it

[gritty plinth]

Submit bug report

[west verge]

i cracked the code

[onyx tulip]

You moved so fast through the shadows it scared your Fey Chimera into submission

[signal heron]

I am now that I determined turning it off and on again doesn't fix the Chimera

[west verge]

just build a two handed hammer

i can dismantle my sgs now

[placid sedge]

1v1 me since we are both using him on beta and mine works

[pseudo sonnet]

0al gursa SS3 no frenzy

[gritty plinth]

Comparison between Enserric's ward build and new att build

[west verge]

looks like live tbh

[small tiger]

What towers are good for gilga?

[pseudo sonnet]

Frenzy just keeps going even when you have no ward

[signal heron]

I found the issue

My beta mirror has a permanent invisible -pet act malus on all loadouts

[placid sedge]

uhh wut

[gritty plinth]

Well duh

Who wouldn't have known that

[pseudo sonnet]

Frenzy has 50% damage and you CD every time

[signal heron]

Nvm, I was just unlucky with stonewarg. It really is just the Chimera

It doesn't have any act chance

[smoky tusk]

Jajaja

[signal heron]

Any

At all

[gritty plinth]

Ohhh I see the issue

Your Chimera has PkRS

[small tiger]

Its cuz its lost to the curse of morrigan :/

[small tiger]

Pls help

[placid sedge]

wrong chat but all of them. in terms of titan adorns then just do prom

[small tiger]

Uh ok thanks

[signal heron]

Yeah ok it's happening to any follower I buy

[onyx tulip]

You are just too powerful

[signal heron]

No testing for me if it invovles pets

[onyx tulip]

They all bow before you now

[signal heron]

I have an Arisen Stonewarg and an Ortanite Golem

[gritty plinth]

See if +pet act does anything

Equip beastfelled gear or something

[signal heron]

Damnit, even spawning followers from Titan Mnemonics also have no act rate

I was going to give Atlas a shot 😆

[onyx tulip]

Just tested on sandbox and mirror and no issue

What's your Spec?

[cunning canopy]

Oh, thanks Frenzy making cd great again..

[signal heron]

Blade of Finesse

[echo bone]

Nearly double with BeoH element stacking and slightly less set up

[placid sedge]

ill use my Dorado SS build in beta >:)

[west verge]

nice hyp cowl

also AL 99

[half karma]

Give them SS. Give gilga verse4. Lets just innovate 🙌

[west verge]

also i want the amity

that said with zerks you dont get to use the additional dmg at max hp

is frenzy ward consume each turn its active?

lol

the turn you use it, it consumes ward

lose 10% of bastile right of the bat

[wild island]

this is why frenzy active ought to flip bastille

[echo bone]

Technically I can get a bit more DMG with some better build optimization

[west verge]

im trying to upload a video

but idk if its too large

[wild island]

if they balance around amities like that, then i hope they start dropping like rain

[hazy comet]

Bummer

Given the lack of dex gear for warrior line i highly doubt this gets changed

[placid sedge]

RS D safe SS with useless spec

RS D Swash SS

@west verge enjoy

[west verge]

idk why i cant upload from this cummy samsung tablet

its just 20 seconds

[west verge]

this my dps with the same buffs lol

also excuse me?

i think i forgot that

[placid sedge]

Was my last real chase item, years of no Ornate Carls and was grinding and getting no drop then bought another 100 out of Monu and got that and a perfect 200% Ring at the same time

[west verge]

i need to make one more

[placid sedge]

3.17 Patch Notes

• Made Spiked Shield exclusively worse on Gilgamesh, now meant to be a Beo/RS skill

[west verge]

Frenzy isn’t on that one

[placid sedge]

Let us know if it makes SS great again

[west verge]

Thing is all the gear that would maximize attack with the current attack based damage scaling has tons of dex

[silver rampart]

Fr we can't be having them actually using and getting valid results out of their hard earned builds

[small tiger]

Exactly

They should cry for a solid 2.5 minutes every night

[silver rampart]

GOD FORBID they're actually able to raid and do pvp

No no no that's a beo thing

[small tiger]

What even is that xd

[silver rampart]

You know what let's nerf their identity even further!

[silver rampart]

Remove ward scaling altogether and make it a purely att focused skill

[west verge]

i think once you add frenzy in it can be workable.

prom feet negate the ward loss

[small tiger]

Only let them use skills with no equipment!

[west verge]

along with ward regen amity

[silver rampart]

In my opinion you shouldn't be forced to use the new mechanic just to make the skill work

Or am I interpreting that wrong

[placid sedge]

So Gilg is swash class now?

[west verge]

frenzy feels like Odie taketh away from one place, and giveth in another

[silver rampart]

It always was

[west verge]

swash was always viable for raiding

and better in some scenarios with raid stat scaling

[silver rampart]

It's only just now we finally got nerfed so hard the only option is swash

[west verge]

liike

if this went out today I will take it

and make it work

[placid sedge]

No point in build Ward/Sruvivability is my point if its all in on Att

[west verge]

i think i have more leeway at my AL

[small tiger]

Seems stronk

[silver rampart]

I'd keep on playing my funny tank class at al 15 but I sure as hell won't have nearly as much of a fun time as before

[west verge]

feel free?

[hazy comet]

Hey you don't have to convince me haha. I'm sure everyone is tired of me saying remove flat miss

[silver rampart]

No reason to remove flat miss chance imo

Just dont have an hp skill issue

[west verge]

realmshifter wants a word with you

[silver rampart]

Well realmshifter can take their saboteur and shove it

You get double ward damage we get flat miss chance

Simple

[placid sedge]

Saboteur hasnt been relavent in 3 years

[silver rampart]

Except I continue to get smacked around by the bleedover when fighting them

[west verge]

@oodie release us from this thread

[thin tiger]

I don’t know wandering warrior. But these are some late day takes

[placid sedge]

@west verge Do you think building around Frenzy is still fun/allows for dofferent builds?

[silver rampart]

Oh for sure I haven't been paying attention at all

[west verge]

it feels like im pressing another button to buff what the skill loss 💀

[silver rampart]

Just spitting out what I've observed for a while

[west verge]

maybe it will have other interesting implications

but i am out of testing juice

[placid sedge]

but is build doversity fair enough in your opinion

[west verge]

sokam can teach me how to make a crit build

[thin tiger]

Seems like SS should have lost fixed miss chance and frenzy boosted

[west verge]

diversity will be achieved again

[silver rampart]

The only build diversity we'll be getting from it is just another crit/swash build bro

With a little extra cd in there

[west verge]

but seriously I am out and have spent too much time here

good luck!

[pseudo sonnet]

It's not a tank class. I learned that today

[placid sedge]

What I learned today = Lock this Thread

Ship it, deal with it then.

[silver rampart]

Preserve it in glass at this point fr

[placid sedge]

#1370416842065313852 message

make sure to vote yes

[late oracle]

Last minute bandaid suggestion: herc just does a bunch of bonus damage to raids. With the attack scaling changes herc basically lost its only niche

[echo bone]

I just wanna grind live again at this point 💀

[pseudo sonnet]

I like the pve changes. Not sure I love it for pvp tho. Can we revisit pvp?

[signal heron]

Save it for the PvP Balance Patch

[broken bough]

Can we just focus on anguish

[placid sedge]

3.17 Patch Notes
#1369690605835387040 message

3.17 Ship/Dont ship Poll
#1370416842065313852 message

[broken bough]

@silver rampart please reconsider the way you are contributing to this beta. Comments like the above do not help us progress the beta and is just unnecessary stuff to scroll through. Let’s help the studio help you

[silver rampart]

Understood

[gritty plinth]

I won't allow this patch to go live until manaseep no longer fades from leaving/rejoining dungeons

https://tenor.com/view/gandalf-the-grey-lord-of-the-rings-ian-mckellen-mines-of-moria-fellowship-of-the-ring-gif-24036179

[broken bough]

I will

[half karma]

Frenzy and rs thingie should fade on reenter i think

[broken bough]

Yeah, they should too

[gritty plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/gandalf-balrog-lotr-fall-lord-of-the-rings-gif-16436421

[half karma]

Ive complained a ton. THAT SAID: ship it. Looking forward to mixing things up

[gritty plinth]

Ok real talk, why

[thin tiger]

U fr?

[half karma]

Blame sirith for this one

[broken bough]

They’re crazy good and shouldn’t just be an endless setup thing

[thin tiger]

Dungeon snapshoting is and always has been a hot topic

[half karma]

But seriously its about identity above all else

[gritty plinth]

Just treat it like summons on non-summoner classes

Making it fade punishes taking a break from the game

This is a hill I will die on

[half karma]

I dont think i understand

[thin tiger]

Lol what?

[half karma]

Oh i understand now lol

[gritty plinth]

I leave dungeon to take a break. I lose manaseep.

[half karma]

I cant disagree there at all actually

They should persist for the same class tree if possible

[gritty plinth]

I leave dungeon to do literally anything - change pets for endless, shuffle kingdom gauntlet, do my kd war, etc etc

[thin tiger]

Dungeons take 2 min?

That is such a fringe case

[gritty plinth]

It is not a fringe case at all

It's borderline required for heretic endless

[half karma]

I think if its too much of a hassle to implement its better to fade because other classes may take advantage

[gritty plinth]

Will be extremely relevant in ang2.0 btw

[half karma]

But Im not against phils usecase

[signal heron]

At least Shadowveil is 100% free to re-apply so it doesn't really harm anyone to lose it on exit

[thin tiger]

How many floors does it take to charge a blood flask?

[gritty plinth]

Still costs a turn right?

[signal heron]

Although that also makes leaving a dungeon able to toggle the downside

Hmm

[thin tiger]

Yeah that is a problem

[signal heron]

Not being able to turn off was like the whole point of it being able to be so good

[thin tiger]

Yeah that might be a thinker

[placid sedge]

Turning off in dungeins is way less of an ordeal then like raids f.e.

[thin tiger]

Cause I still close the game when i am about to lose a tower

[gritty plinth]

It shouldn't stay on other classes but should stay on the targeted classes

[placid sedge]

If you want to reset in the middle of a dung then they can waste the time. I genuinely dk why anyoen would

If this needs adressed just having it stay active for one turn and fade on act fixes any potential issues. If you class swap you have to swap and let the whole dung get a turn befire you could swap back i.e. unusable in Ang dungs i.e. prob fixed for Horde Ang and endless cheese

[pseudo sonnet]

I still feel like deity and beoh are going to go crazy with SS. #1369690605835387040 message

[signal heron]

Did you read any of the previous convo? lol

[echo bone]

This was a joke post... I have Frenzy and Shadow Veil active 😅

[pseudo sonnet]

So is beoh not crazy with SS now?

[half karma]

Goddammit sirith

Lol

[echo bone]

It's still good, but that screenshot does exacerbate it alot if taken out of context

[half karma]

Frenzy helps a ton indeed. Also it frees gilgas from the shackles of lyncus pubes ✂️

Bristles*

Autocorrect

Dont worry about it

[broken bough]

…ish

You won’t be getting 100% Frenzy uptime

[half karma]

Does it fade?

[broken bough]

At 0 Ward, yes

[pseudo sonnet]

SS is way better than crits with bof spec in pvp 120al deity. So guess I'll still be using SS after the Nerf...

[half karma]

Oh yea thats right lol

[echo bone]

I'm sorry but using ashen pinions I instantly consider this sub optimal honestly

[pseudo sonnet]

Good call way to much crit

[signal heron]

Are you using a 40% crit amity?

[echo bone]

Why using a 2H weapon?

[pseudo sonnet]

Trev charms and yes

2h bonus

[tawny holly]

Oracle dual wielding will be highest damage

[signal heron]

I guess it must be -miss chance + 40% crit

Wait, no

[echo bone]

AL0 DUrsa

[smoky tusk]

Noo please

[signal heron]

((15496 * 2.6) - (2279/2)) * 2 * 1.771561 = 138,713

There's no 40% crit amity there

[pseudo sonnet]

Is there a bug then?

[signal heron]

Then what's messing with the damage values?

[smoky tusk]

What? How?

[signal heron]

It's just a button, it costs no mana

It does cost a turn

[smoky tusk]

But you need full ward

[signal heron]

This is nerfing your damage

[echo bone]

sometimes not even that if you get lucky with avidity

[signal heron]

The last bonus is not a bonus with very unequal attack and magic

[pseudo sonnet]

Really 100 attack is going to help that much lol

[placid sedge]

Yeah Hybrid is broken and Deity is the most busted class in the game but thats a bad effect for non hybrid

[visual crescent]

Let see what *** odie will bring next for gilga

[placid sedge]

Use V4 with that amity

[visual crescent]

What a meme class

[echo bone]

You're losing like 3k lol

[signal heron]

No, Sokam, that amity means your attack stat is effectively:

(15,496 + 2,279)/1.66 = 10,707

[visual crescent]

Technically use that amity just lower your damage

[echo bone]

Ah it's even worse than my quick mental math

[placid sedge]

!define hybrid

[fierce maple]

Auttaja

Sorry, no results found for Hybrid.

May 22, 2025, 1:24 AM

[placid sedge]

😏

[signal heron]

Funny that that works out to almost the same number as not wearing a 40% crit amity

Weird coincidence

[visual crescent]

Without selene hands, hybrid amity is useless for gilga with their so low mag

But still better than rs

[placid sedge]

that dudes a Deity

[pseudo sonnet]

20k more

[echo bone]

third tries the charm, you got this!

[signal heron]

The 2h setup was good idk why you got flamed for that one

The amity just held you back

[pseudo sonnet]

Thank you for pointing that out I never knew that God tier amity can actually hurt me lol

[placid sedge]

the % hybrid is the one that always buffs, the all skills are hybrid is only a buff if your att/mag is closish to equal. easy way to remember

[shell quarry]

Thank you sokam for testing. The original post you shared still highlights the issue.

SS3 is still posting huge numbers and will remain top dog with flat miss chance.

Why would we bother using anything else fam?

[last haven]

I see nothing but celestial weapons in all the raid builds and examples posted. Is it intended for Gil to have to build around frenzy with the regen from promfeet (and in effect lose out on anguish scaling on weapons?) Do celestials hold up in high anguish raid health pools with said loss?

[shell quarry]

And you have 100k hp and 200k ward

[shell quarry]

40k hp less and 80k ward less, and 40k damage less!!!!

Balance achieved

[timid rose]

So how do i test frenzy, i cant find the button.
Or was it just a joke? :o

[pseudo sonnet]

Here is my high defense 120al deity SS hybrid build vs myself hitting the same as I can with a crit. I think the SS pvp needs to get hit harder honestly but hopefully that will come in the balance patch... Or maybe just make SS valor only.

[shell quarry]

Look at those tank stats and hitting like a truck lol

Not to mention flat miss chance!

https://tenor.com/view/sesame-street-cookie-monster-eats-your-art-eating-muppet-crazy-eyes-gif-1461380403278441959

So much value for no trade offs

We need to eat up this value if this ships like this!!

[echo bone]

AL99 BeoH, V4 vs SS3, both very optimized builds, I'm quite happy with this when compared to live
Obviously it's not perfect, and honestly we can't expect it ever will be, but definitely shortens the gap

[pseudo sonnet]

I'm happy with pve just not PVP SS

[pseudo sonnet]

Who can survive that with flat miss chance? No one

[echo bone]

Heretic and sometimes deity because you need element stacking to get this Dmg Lol

[shell quarry]

Can you share your stat screen pages as well? This isnt the whole picture

[timid rose]

I honestly enjoy fast pvp.
Leveling conquerers is hard enough DX
I don't mind getting onetapped and beeing able to get it back quickly

But i guess the fact this tread exists means im alone in that

I think boring buffy slow pvp isnt fun. And SS makes it an option to just say no to that

[pseudo sonnet]

Flat miss, high m1, high damage, can be tanky is the problem there are no trade offs

[timid rose]

So is there no real tradeoff with chronomancer but nobody seems to care about that anyway.
Its basically SS but as a stun.

So i dont really get the fuzz.

[restive phoenix]

A tank should not consistently out-damage a glass cannon, especially with an ability that effectively cannot miss and has high penetration. Each playstyle must have clear trade-offs. High damage must come with low defense. High defense must come with low damage. There must not be a build that provides both high damage and high durability while ignoring enemy Dexterity.

[shell quarry]

Sorry, is there an accessory I can put on to make me immune to SS?

[restive phoenix]

All other class builds have some sort of trade off, low Dex, low defense etc. Not a mega tank SS raid boss build

[shell quarry]

Would love that 🙂

[timid rose]

Its called Counter II
Pretty effective in my experience!

Polly offhand has it, specs too

[echo bone]

Yee

But in reality weather I'm in SS or V4 I'm not surviving a shot back 99% of the time

[onyx topaz]

I gotchu

[restive phoenix]

1 specific situational item gives you a chance at potentially not getting 1 shot for 1 turn.... Solved boys time to pack it up, ship the update

[echo bone]

As my local heretic just smacks me for 200k either way

[timid rose]

Also since its a gilga change, how can i test frenzy, i cannot seem to find it at all. Is it real? If yes, how do i access it

[echo bone]

Is your client updated?

[shell quarry]

With stone warg WoO and 400k ward and 80knhealth lol? Vs 100k hp+ward on v4 (insert the chance to miss a lot a lot). Why would you even run V4

[pseudo sonnet]

Any reason to even use the v4. I bet you miss dexy players all the time

[restive phoenix]

Why would you use a skill that can miss in 2025?

[timid rose]

That was the issue, thank you!

[gritty plinth]

I don't feel like anyone would really mind if fixed miss chance was gone from ss in current beta

[shell quarry]

Unfortunately Phill, that's not the case - or else I'd think it'd be gone already

[echo bone]

Your Stonewarg uses WoO?

[restive phoenix]

You gotta feed him better

[timid rose]

So Gilga and realm now has a mechanic for builds that dont use ward (or just a power buff with prom feet)
I think thats a cool addition!! Any jank found so far? X3

[shell quarry]

That's fair. I let mine sleep in my bed at night. He only steps on me and wakes me up several times but worth it during pvp

Turn 1 baby

[fringe mirage]

Snotra, DC, mimics, t.mag^^^ with a 40% crit 30% dragon amity. Prior ensseric hitting harder than I was with similar but less buffs and less AL. Not now ofc. Haven't been keeping up and it looks like there's tons of posts beyond this that I need to read lol

[echo bone]

I'm BeoH, my pet is a buff slave/meat shield and nothing more

[placid sedge]

Dont bother man 💀 it was a lot

[fringe mirage]

Here's yesterday's example at 177 AL on live

[placid sedge]

All of us came to the determination of ship it and we will see what happens

[fringe mirage]

Alright lol

[shell quarry]

Poll is still out! Plenty of time for a swing in the right direction 😉

[echo bone]

https://tenor.com/view/bill-o-reilly-fuck-it-live-do-it-live-gif-4280622

[pseudo sonnet]

I wish there was a poll good for PVE not for PVP

[visual crescent]

I just see u do wrong way with ss3

Isnt use aligned pet with your faction and fsc better

To sum up, all of the testing show ss3/ss now unable to do raid right

And significant weaker in. Pvp though still enough for 1 turn kill

[pseudo sonnet]

I think its able to do raids and on par with the other skills. Its just still the best thing to use in PVP kingdoms and conq guild

[hazy comet]

Ship it

(No flat miss)

[pseudo sonnet]

Its got flat miss chance currently

[wild island]

I unironically built my first SS kit on beoH for raiding and it works better than verse or chakram w/a t.mag^^^ and deific buff bot pet.. dangit

[echo bone]

No, fire alignment gives the same bonus dmg as zerk
(I'm fire faction)
faction bonus + double 20% fire amity = 1.65x
Bulwark + double 30% drag = 1.80x

I also have +15% dmg at max HP on both drag amities, I don't have versions of that with 20% fire

[visual crescent]

Ok just most of us do ss3 with faction but seem after ele additive it change

[smoky tusk]

How? I can't see frenzy or shadowveil in passives

[onyx tulip]

Class abilities

[red veldt]

It's not in the abilities

[smoky tusk]

Yes, I can't see it

[onyx tulip]

What version is your beta?

Oh yeah for me it looks gone too

[echo bone]

need to update your client (I had to this morning when I saw it)

[onyx tulip]

No update for me

[echo bone]

Currently on 3.17.26beta

[onyx tulip]

and after I recheck of course it's back

[signal heron]

Is there one for Shadowveil?

[smoky tusk]

"Boost dexterity", so it's not the same as dodge chance???

[swift lava]

It’s also miss chance

[smoky tusk]

Yes, but not an additional dodge chance

[swift lava]

Thank god, that would’ve made gursa even more busted in bof 😂

Isn’t it also dodge chance as you have more dexterity?

[smoky tusk]

Eh, there's a limit of 60% dodge chance

I thought it surpassed that limit

[signal heron]

Mystic Feather also doesn't care about dex, and Dorado doesn't care about in-battle dex boosts (edit: kind of)

[smoky tusk]

It's not bad, more dex is better for endless but, dodge chance is way better IMO

[pseudo sonnet]

0al beoh hits 120k turn 1 in pvp with my ward gear with SS3 in the beta. I feel like that's a lot for 0als in pvp

No elements just Selene hands and a hybrid amity

[onyx tulip]

Al 0 GSH can single hit for that much and more, Turn 1

[shell quarry]

Share your stat page please :)?

[shell quarry]

Ty. Your number could be higher (but its less now) but if you look at your stats to sokams, he has 170k ward and almost 40k health lol

That's not balanced imo

Your risking it for the big hit

[signal heron]

I mean 40K hp is pretty trivial to oneshot too

[shell quarry]

3k defense vs 0?

[signal heron]

I'm not saying Sokam's overall loadout isn't better, but he also dies turn 1

[shell quarry]

Stat for stat its not equitable regardless of 1 shot potential

[onyx tulip]

Yes, that's all I am saying, I can even outperform at AL 0 up to 150ish

there are some Beo that give me a hard time

[shell quarry]

Were here to balance Knight 🙂

[signal heron]

Agreed, but it's important to look at the full picture

[onyx tulip]

I also realize that BP may be getting a pass in the future but a good comparision of 1 turn 1 shot builds

[shell quarry]

I see what you are saying, but to truly factor in what your saying, you need to simulate them side by side over a large data pool. We dont have thay capability.

So comparing stats is the best way.

[signal heron]

Classes will never be, and should never be, stat equal to deal the same damage

That would defeat the purpose of there being classes

[shell quarry]

Never said equal. I said equitable

[signal heron]

Grand Summoner is especially poor at PvP, so tbh I'm impressed it can do that at all lol

[onyx tulip]

It's Hydrus

[shell quarry]

Having an effective pool of 27k ves 80k is a large difference plus 3k defense and doing more damage

It's an outlier

[real blade]

the reason it can do that is because eos arms are still 20% multiplicative multipliers

[shell quarry]

Need to be addressed

Multiple examples have been shared showing how SS3 is still over tuned in current state - and BTW, it has flat miss chance

#somuchvalue

[signal heron]

Multiple examples have also shown SS3 somewhat underperforms in PvE in it's current state

[pseudo sonnet]

Actually here is with a better amity 15% damage at full hp

[shell quarry]

Sorry - only PVP talk here from me

[signal heron]

^ From Odie

[shell quarry]

Yall are welcome to transition to anguish - but I'm not happy with the balance pvp state of SS

Happy to take my feedback else where

Where do you recommend?

[signal heron]

That was the purpose of this thread being made: https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1370414879395020831

But this is a PvE patch, not a PvP patch

Changes may effect PvP but that has not been Odie's goal at all

[shell quarry]

Oh - I missed that note in the SS poll he put out - on what is most important to address

Didn't realize it was pve

Will slide on over to that pvp channel - thanks, knight!

[red veldt]

Yea straight out ridiculous

[haughty turtle]

So, SS seems to be overperforming in low AL PvP and underperforming in PvE. Is splitting the skill not a consideration, since that’s already been done with other spells as well?

[shell quarry]

It's already split, I believe!

[pseudo sonnet]

It's split. I feel like it's good for Gilga but deity and beoh are blowing it out of proportion

[haughty turtle]

True, I forgot about the cap, my bad. Well, if it’s okay on Gilga but the other classes are still abusing it, maybe we should be looking at them and not the skill? What’s causing deity and BeoH to be able to use it more effectively?

[onyx tulip]

I know it's not the best answer but with the upcoming Selene changes do we think that would lower Deity and BeoH performance?

It's the hands

it's always the hands

[pseudo sonnet]

That's what's wild we are balancing the game for one guild... One. but the balance needs to be looked at for the other half of the game not just one guild lol

[haughty turtle]

Aren’t the hands already changed in the beta, where people are seeing the overperformance still?

[onyx tulip]

TBH I can't keep up with the changes that are in and out and then back in and/or shifted again

[young river]

How does SS3 on Beoh Compare to say Verse 4 crit?

[pseudo sonnet]

Make it Gilga only skill

[haughty turtle]

I’m not against that, but then you need to create an alternative skill for other classes to clear anguish content

[pseudo sonnet]

I'm sure it can be close but it's not a flat hit chance spell then and you're not in def gear

[haughty turtle]

I’d rather look at why other classes overperform with it. Is it the access to a much higher attack stat and/or temp buffs?

[pseudo sonnet]

Maybe only Gilga can use SS effectively in pvp

[haughty turtle]

The skill could be made less efficient in PvP when used by non-valor classes as part of the PvP/PvE split

[onyx tulip]

So who was the Deity posting SS stuff? I can only find 3 Beoh and am curious about that

[haughty turtle]

I just don’t want to see gilga players suddenly unable to complete PvE content at a similar rate to other classes. The raid videos that Ensseric posted are a bit worrisome imo

[onyx tulip]

I worry that by affecting Gilga, the other SS/CS users (Deity and RS mainly) also become ineffective in specific content. I also don't want to see any class fail

[echo bone]

#1370141629444395028 message

[haughty turtle]

Honestly, I dislike the fixed miss chance more than the damage but I think that ship has sailed for this beta

[haughty turtle]

Mainly why I think leaning more into splitting the skill would make sense

[signal heron]

Oh good, there's a bug where arena mirrors freeze in beta

[hazy comet]

Damage being like 4x above next skill, and being able to hit every target blindfolded with flat miss combined made up the issue for sure. Now that one is fixed, the other isnt as bad, but still problematic imo

[late oracle]

Would honestly prefer more damage with fixed miss rate removed and then I can swing wildly until I connect or die

[signal heron]

This setup is simultaneously suboptimal and possibly unrealistic 😆

[haughty turtle]

I agree, at least that way opponents have a way to build against it

[echo bone]

Anguished C.Lute

[signal heron]

As featured in #1369693286994018396 !

Doesn't effect the PvP test though

Lute was given 5x Prom hands

[thorny olive]

No new play style has been discovered from Gilga

[signal heron]

I guess my only point in that testing is that dealing well over 100k damage with BeoH isn't even close to Spiked Shield exclusive

All the exact same loadout

[smoky tusk]

Just nerf Beo Hydrus

Problem solved

[signal heron]

Worth noting the loadout is optimized(ish) for verse, I'd have much higher attack or magic for actually using RS or Chakram for real

There is also no reason that I should be in swash gear

Old habits die hard 😆

Alright I'll spend the gold and effort on re-adorning

Spiked Who?

[fringe mirage]

Aren't frenzy and shadowveil both flawed? I mean, grab living arch armor and have him spam DB for infinite ward regen. Also hope those avidity procs were tweaked that was a ridiculous screenshot lol

[lilac cliff]

Isn't this supposed to be Gilga/SS balance thread

[trim ruin]

Frenzy is definitely on topic

[fringe mirage]

Well they both got a ward thing added and I see living arch as being a massive flaw for it. I haven't tested, but it's not hard to picture when I see living arch cast DB every single turn for people

[lilac cliff]

Ik, was just talking about the messages before wrecked's

[signal heron]

Odie was considering changing how Frenzy/Shadowveil interact with ward recovery mechanics

I'm just kind of waiting to see what he does atm

[fringe mirage]

Gotcha

[signal heron]

People keep steering it toward "SS is still best in PvP"

[lilac cliff]

Anguished windtamer shoes with more pet act will definitely be something that people start using I think

[trim ruin]

Odie also said he doesn't want easy regen to just turn it into a free multiplier (for either class line). LAA/stonewarg are certainly a part of the easy regen argument.

[lilac cliff]

Wait no, helms have pet act

I forgot

[fringe mirage]

Yeah stonewarg, living arch, ward regen amities, anguish gear having high* ward regen (unless that was changed, I haven't looked at gear bonuses)

[young river]

Are you specifically talking for pvp? I mean you can't activate it till at least turn 3

[signal heron]

I think for all content other than PvP would be the concern lol

[young river]

For pve it's pretty much a wash I'd guess, you can use a ward regen pet, but then you lose zerk pet

And using Frenzy from testing is pretty much the same as having zerk as far as impact on damage

I am going to try to use AI pet axe and Living Armor to see how well it works in an Anguish 1 Horde dungeon but then I lose base ward regen from prom feet so if I get some bad RNG, it might be worse. Just have to play with it I guess

[signal heron]

You can use Beastfelled Garb on GUrsa or Beastfeled Leggings on any Gilga

[lilac cliff]

Beastfelled legs = No 8% act windtamer shoes 😔

[smoky tusk]

Mimic

[young river]

Both of those have pretty low ward, which for SS3 in pve is generally pretty important. I don't have those to test in Beta but I am going to assume that losing that much ward is going to make any damage you gained from having a pet that can both Berserk and let you use Frenzy is going to be negated.

[signal heron]

I was thinking more for Frenzy boosting other things than SS

Since the guaranteed(?) CD is good

[young river]

Maybe? I'd be shocked if "For Gilga" it's a better option than Chained Shield but it may allow for a better alternative than the current 2h builds.

[wild island]

ss3 on beoH (my live acct) is infuriatingly simple and stronger than any verse kit ive been able yet to collect (rngesus, skill issue, whatever)

[young river]

I just had a horrible thought. I wonder if my AI is going to use Frenzy

[signal heron]

I mean this verse kit is better damage and penetration wise than SS3

[signal heron]

Hopefully the AI just can't use Frenzy or Shadowveil lol

[young river]

Dorado Settlement Defense nightmare mode unlocked, lol

[pseudo sonnet]

But you dont have flat miss chance with verse and dont have any def or resist. Do we even know the M1 of ss3?

[fringe mirage]

I mentioned anguish content directly above this comment. Your most recent pvp comment also explains why it would be a nightmare in pvp as well

Make ss3 and verse IV 2 turn. Or let's make ultima 2 1 turn

[half karma]

Knight's chimera doesnt lol

[fringe mirage]

It was really just a blanket statement and has potential to be broken in all content. If odie is reworking how it works with ward then maybe it won't be an issue

[west verge]

Fixed miss chance removed yet?

[young river]

My experience with it so far has been limited to testing the damage output of SS3, WoL, SS3, WOL alternating spam in raids vs Straight SS3 spam. It was not really advantageous turn wise but it was somewhat fun to see the bigger hits. I've not even tried to delve into build optimization for it yet

[pseudo sonnet]

Nope ill message you if anything changes!

Just put on your BOF pumpkin stuff and SS is still going to be the only thing in PVP for 4 or 5 classes

[late oracle]

Current version of frenzy is a bit odd with the no ward regen. The drain counteracts bastille 50% stats (or 60 for herc) coupled with the drain from SS spells renders it not very usable on Base or Herc. You don't face the same problem on Ursa, it basically hard caps at 3-5 turns and then left with little ways to regen after.

Not sure if something like this could be implemented, but maybe the following: Ward regen still active (or somehow locks yourself to the ward you cast it) Ward can no longer be used to soak damage. Frenzy ends on any turn you do not attack (and sets your ward to 0%?). Carries the same risk, but doesn't hurt SS as much,

[west verge]

This was my complaint with frenzy. It goes against your class passive

I’d rather it deal health dmg or something idk

[polar sentinel]

Agreed, using frenzy shouldnt cost ward on the first turn

[west verge]

That too

[late oracle]

Current iteration I would rather just not use, keep max damage SS and bastille.

I think above would fit the thematic of rage/risk, but it also loses the gilga identity of spending ward. So hard to say

[polar sentinel]

well the thing that i've been asking myself is... where would i use frenzy? It's not particularly anguish friendly (except in revive party play scenarios?)

[late oracle]

The only thing I've used it for are: Quick raiding (still much slower than live) and blasting the mammon on floor 25 of a dungeon

It just feels counterproductive on base and herc, and Ursa feels like a one time use since they lack the regen.

[signal heron]

Btw, I made #1375169948984414258 to focus some Shadowveil discussion

[half karma]

Yes this is INSANELY harsh. Im not sure id ever use it in this state

[signal heron]

I'd use it

I just don't think it solves any problems, it's just a neat toy 😆

Edit: Shadowveil. Wrong thread

[half karma]

Maybe like geppu said in floor 25. Im not sure for myself though. If something goes wrong im 100% toast

[gritty plinth]

Quick go change your vote to "don't ship"

[signal heron]

Sorry, I thought we were in #1369690605835387040 . Yeah on Frenzy I have no opinion

[wild island]

just curious, did anyone ever figure out how to use Atlas stance?

[young river]

Ward draining abilities haven't tended to be super popular build choices on Gilgamesh in my experience. Which is understandable since it's usually anti synergistic with Bastille. So I'll be curious to see how it plays out. Would be super interesting if my suggestions to give Bastille some other bonus such as CD chance or damage when under 50% ward.

[wild island]

atlas stance sets absorb to 0% and stops regen iirc

but you get some boost?

[late oracle]

IIRC CD chance/damage

[half karma]

That's the stance's old iteration

Now it gives you CD bonuses and drains ward

[polar sentinel]

Consumes 20% max Ward on CD proc
1,1x CD Damage increase and +10% proc chance increase

[wild island]

guess i should be stacking that on gursa endless

gursa swash endless

..idk sorry

[polar sentinel]

if you're on 0 ward it doesn't work anymore

[silver rampart]

Ok so I've done some testing with the changes, comparing the damage of ss3 between the two versions. I've got the same setup in both settings but with better stats in the beta. In base game I got about 4 million on average with ss3 and on the beta I got 500k with the same buffs and better stats

That's concerning

[wild island]

what class were you using?

[silver rampart]

Gilga herc

It's just appalling tbh

[gritty plinth]

Don't use the same setup

The formula is different. Favors attack more

[silver rampart]

Well how else would I get a standard of damage

If you change the setup that favors the results of one side over the other

But sure I'll build some more attack on it and be back soon

[gritty plinth]

Yeah the point is that you can't just stack ward and deal millions

[silver rampart]

Alright about 1k more attk added 1.1 m onto that total from the beta average

Even still, less than half of what the base skill got is crazy

[late oracle]

Herc is way worse in beta due to less attack. Unfortunately that means it loses its primary niche, but try to use base on beta for testing balance purposes.

[silver rampart]

Alright

So base gilga added another 1m or so into the average

Definitely better

But why would we make it more atk focused in the first place is my question

Doesn't that just make it even better for the high al beoh builds

[haughty turtle]

And the low Al BeoH builds. And the medium Al BeoH builds. And the 0 Al BeoH builds.

[young river]

Overall it's not a huge attack advantage over ward in pve, a good balance between the two is best. It is however a huge advantage to stack attack in pvp since the ward contribution is capped fairly low.

[slow pilot]

Gilga raiding is horrible rn, the dmg is nerfed quiet heavily and the sustained dps makes me feel like a fresh t10. I’m missing the frenzy feature, curious how that’s going the change that

[gritty plinth]

Please make sure you adjust builds to the new formula

Full ward stacking ss builds were heavily nerfed, yes

[slow pilot]

Will try Pumpkinless bof w different celestial axes

[late oracle]

Even with full attack builds the reduction is pretty dramatic. Enserric was showing a 60-70% reduction while going 30k attack. So thats pretty much best case scenario. It is also just very strange that best SS builds dont use shield.

[broken bough]

m1/m2-wise it should currently be fitting between the two ultimas (but its still 1 turn)

if the skill was doing 60-70% more than its comparables at high AL, then i would say a 60-70% trim is fair and warranted

[signal heron]

The skill is in an awkward spot where it's somehow too OP for the PvP folks but underpowered for raiding compared to similar investment options on other classes.

So right now nobody is happy lol

[haughty turtle]

The ward cap also seems to be fairly easy to hit even at 0 AL, which is probably why it still looks strong at low AL but hard to hit big numbers at high AL

[pseudo sonnet]

I feel like PVP needs to be turned down or lose flat miss chance at least

turn 1 nuke that cant be dodged is pretty strong

[signal heron]

Given this is a PvE focused patch, my only real concern is the raiding power

[haughty turtle]

I don’t think it’s as linear as this. AL 0 hitting for 150k while AL100 struggles to hit 200k is an awkward scenario.

I wouldn’t mind seeing the power go up (increasing the ward cap so it’s harder to hit at 0 AL but easier to hit at higher ALs) at the expense of losing fixed miss chance

Open up counter play via dex building

[broken bough]

it would likely need crit again for raiding superiority

it's at least in a better place for crit, not scaling into infinity

[young river]

https://tenor.com/view/to-infinity-and-beyond-woody-buzz-lightyear-toy-story-1-all-the-way-to-infinity-and-beyond-gif-16167976930625437697

[broken bough]

$suggest remove fixed miss chance and add crit

[haughty turtle]

I wouldn’t mind beta testing that scenario. Building heavily into crit comes with its drawbacks as well

[late oracle]

I think it is falling below this. Not sure what Ultima 2 does but Wrecked Ultima 1 QC does 4.3m damage with the following buffs. Enserric had to have 1+ zerks and Frenzy running to hit similar numbers, not account for things like turn economy, followup turns etc.

[signal heron]

Rather than crit, could it potentially have double Collateral Damage or something?

I'm thinking of things that:

1. Keep it different than other skills
2. Help Gilga Herc stay a tiny bit relevant

[young river]

Is this with Gilga varieties getting homing shield as in the original iteration?

[pseudo sonnet]

Yes you need ashens or bristles which take away attack. Why taking crit away was actually a buff.

[signal heron]

It was absolutely a nerf at the time

Look at historic videos if you weren't playing then

[late oracle]

Frankly not hard to build crit on gilga with bristles, I hit 50-60 crit chance on a build that cant crit.

[polar sentinel]

bristles + crit SS probably wouldn't be bad 😅

[young river]

The first SS nerf was pretty painful, as someone who lived it.

[pseudo sonnet]

link me. But I think the problem in PVP is the other classes beoh and deity. I play deity also

[young river]

That Bristles farm is worse than the old Ashen pinions farm though, so freakin painful

That does remind me I need to smack on the AW before it actually ends and I miss out on a chance of more bristles

[haughty turtle]

Leaning into stronger collateral damage could be a good way to avoid going back to crit

[signal heron]

Baalinor's Arisen Morrigan speedruns

Before (2:51): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDwgFZSr81c
After (5:39): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpRKQ8vUP40

In the before he was Asc 31, after he was Asc 41
(Those were very very high at the time)

[ivory bear]

Could +collateral stats be added to shield skills themselves 🤔

[signal heron]

That is what I suggested, then Bordoadas suggested lol

[young river]

I forgot the glory of the old Fey CHim sprite

[haughty turtle]

Just 3 more suggestions and we can get it rolling || ||

[young river]

Never did I think I'd see CD suggested as being added to SS skills when the original point of CD was to deemphasize SS skills. Ohh what a tangled web we weave.

[late oracle]

I dont disagree that its a solution for ss skills, but CD was initially implemented as a way to incentivize non-ss play.

Yeah that

[signal heron]

True lol. But it sounds like a more sustainable way to re-buff SS (and has the added bonus of not buffing SS on non-Gilga classes)

[west verge]

Hey Odie I just want to say hi and I’m hoping you are having a good day despite the existence of this thread. 🫶

[half karma]

This man singlehandedly made me choose warrior back when i was low tier

[haughty turtle]

SS so strong Odie is taking collateral damage in his sleep

[pseudo sonnet]

Oh how the tables have turned https://i.imgur.com/mEqH1fe.png

[young river]

https://imgflip.com/i/9uw5ve

[broken bough]

Now we’re talking balance

[pseudo sonnet]

Pretty cool but they don't seem op in todays standards but only 30 als and no spike great shield. Gilgas are hitting damage cap with 4 buffs due to quadratic scaling at high ALs lol

[last haven]

Take away quadratic and give me old m1 back I'd love to have an effective 50k attack stat in new anguish

[young river]

I'm still of the opinion that removing Ascension scaling and balancing the fixed miss aspect was probably enough.

[gritty plinth]

Taking away quadratic scaling = reworking ward as a whole

[signal heron]

Oh yeah, I forgot in the old crit days M1 was what scaled off ward lol

[young river]

Remember when Deity got full bonus to that version of SS and you had the tankiest class in the game absolutely smoking everyone

Pepperidge Farm remembers

[signal heron]

No, because that was a very, very brief period before I started playing

[gritty plinth]

Pretty sure the current cap in pvp is capping quadratic scaling anyway, right?

Capping how much ward contributes to m2

[signal heron]

Yes/No

[young river]

I think it's removed or reduced in pve too atm. At least judging from patch notes

[signal heron]

Yes it caps the M2, but it introduces the issue of Gilga being the attack class that is worst at getting more attack relying on attack the most

[west verge]

Patchnotes: All skills now have quadratic scaling

[signal heron]

And it relies on attack more the higher your AL because you hit the cap without trying

[young river]

Bring back the glory days of Ultima and Dragon blights! Make Ultima great again :p

[echo bone]

New SS meta doesn't even need to build for ward

[signal heron]

I mean, unironically without the mimic emoji

[west verge]

I’d ask what’s happening here but it won’t matter 5 minutes from now

[gritty plinth]

I've heard enough. Rework the attack stat

Attack is now based on two new stats, "piercing" and "crushing". Piercing increases m1, crushing m2

Both are increased by ALs

[young river]

poor magic, left out again

[gritty plinth]

So should there be softcaps on both attack and ward instead of a hard cap on ward?

Idk I'm tired of making suggestions on a skill I don't use

Best of luck gilgamesh mains

At least builds that focus on attack instead of ward are easier to kill in pvp and have more risk in general. Will be relevant in ang2.0

[echo bone]

Idk what's going on...

[signal heron]

#1369693286994018396 message

[smoky tusk]

It's evolving

Too much testing

[echo bone]

The cactus is done with our shit

[wild island]

this looks right...?

hey i see eistla stance in there 😂😂😂😂

[echo bone]

Who needs a shield when you have a Stick

[pseudo sonnet]

Can't use ward skills when you don't have any ward

[timid rose]

Is there a reason when i go to arena and press SS3 that it always does around 120k, unimportant if i have ascension on and off (94 Ascension levels difference...)?

Is it bugged? Or did i do something wrong?

[sick jewel]

Sounds like ward capped and needs more atk?

[timid rose]

Ward capped? :o

That would be the most weird mechanic ever added to the game

[pseudo sonnet]

I think als are bugged in the arena

[timid rose]

Okay that makes more sense
Because i was like "what in tarnation has the community done to spiked shield" xD

[sick jewel]

There reaches a point where ward stops contributing to m2

And more attack is needed to get more damage

[last haven]

Just get a full stat passive

[wild island]

laughs in GS

[timid rose]

The existance of the summoner would be the weirdest now that i know SS didnt get trashed, it was just bugged x3

[broken bough]

You need more Attack

[pseudo sonnet]

There is def a bug with disabling als not affecting your damage if you have als on that class

I wonder if this is why people are saying they are hitting the same on 0al as they are on high als

[broken bough]

I’ll take a look

[silver rampart]

Been saying this for months

[half karma]

I think it may be extra hard to juggle balancing SS for gilga and also beoh/deity

[silver rampart]

Ngl odie, giving gilga herc steadfast 1 would make these nerfs seem a lot less outlandish 🥸 (totally not a bribe)

[silver rampart]

Pretty sure making the skill scale even more with atk and less of ward just indirectly buffed those two classes using it anyways

Since they're focused more on atk than ward

[half karma]

Odie i just wanna point out that you're doing a great job, ive never played a game in my whole life where there was this much care about the community and its feedbacks

Here take this

[silver rampart]

Yeah I do complain alot but this really is the most interactive dev team I've ever seen with a game, a mobile game no less

Doing a great job

[half karma]

That might be the case since they can stack attack better than gilgas 😂

[silver rampart]

Welp I guess I better get to changing my setup that took me a year and a half to make (totally not crying)

Atk over ward for the win or whatever

[timid rose]

I have 12k D:

[timid rose]

I feel like its the other way around
I cant see my 260k SS drop to 120k, and then beeing unchanged at +94% damage

[timid rose]

I forward this. I may complain a lot, but not cause of dislike! This is the greatest Indie Game i have ever played and i care a lot for it, and i want it the best it can be.

Just seeing you add frenzy and shadowveil, just cause you want to, reminds me of the good old times, where we didnt care about a class or skill beeing to overpowered, where we just had fun doing our best and finding out new ways to cheese all the mechanics you crafted with love and care to stop us.

It was such a fun time. Where nothing really mattered, and the journey was the goal, where we wanted to experiment.

I miss those times. But even tho the game somehow shifted more to top players complaining about a balance that was never intended to exist (im one of them i know), i kinda just... Enjoy playing the game.

As you said, imagine having fun. Not caring about this beeing OP and this beeing too broken... Just enjoying the existance of all that is. The endless giving of enjoyment, and the childish joy every small step brought.

[broken bough]

this is patched now

[pseudo sonnet]

Okay that makes a big difference at low AL's now that that's fixed. It actually feels comparable to crit.

I like that if you don't have ward turns or ward you don't do as much damage with SS since it uses ward.

Still wish we could test it without fixed miss chance. Just for a day pretty please!

[broken bough]

Ping me tomorrow and we can try it

[echo bone]

Exact same build and set up before/after this is wrong nvm

Apparently somehow the dragon element enchant on my branch is just gone??

[visual crescent]

Somewhat dumbr that ss3 now dont need high ward more

I mean yeah just build high atk is better but a shield skill that lower ward better than higher one in damage may be a skill issue

[echo bone]

Personally I like it, the main reason I never used and personally disliked it for PvE was due to the lack of build variety

[slow pilot]

I dislike it too, building for ward + attack was adding another layer to buildcrafting. Hitting a threshold of 200k ward, then only focusing on attack seems less interesting for me.

[haughty turtle]

Devils advocate: if the main complaint was that it did a ton of damage while making you tanky, not having to build into ward technically tackles that point

[visual crescent]

I feel like ss 1.0

When atk isnt a factor just build ward and crit

[slow pilot]

Id rather have more SS damage with more time to focus on ward upkeep / survivability. How’s the feeling about SS1 draining 33% remaining ward, SS2 50% and SS3 100% ?

[visual crescent]

Somewhat nonsense though yeah but may be they try to remove the quad scaling issue

[echo bone]

It didn't add another layer to build crafting, it was the only layer of build crafting, in live rn SS3 builds consist of and celestial axe with Selene hands and then just all BiS gear with the highest ward %, and everything else (besides maybe some swash things) is just a direct downgrade in damage

[young river]

I am not sure what you all are seeing in PVE where you are saying attack is more important, I've tried multiple builds now with varying levels of attack and ward. In raids, the highest ward one with regen axe still outdamages them all.

A Selene's Arms builds would probably be a bit better for damage but I don't have enough of those on beta to test it

In PVP though, attack definitely more important as once you reach a certain ward number of x, ward really doesn't multiply anymore to your base damage.

[echo bone]

In live currently these builds are no where near close with the "more ward" one being miles better

(technically I can make it even better if I use my 30% drag / +15% Dmg at Max HP, but that feels like an unfair comparison die to just amity availability)

[young river]

I meant as a comparison in Beta, not Beta to live. There's no doubt attack is more in improtant in Beta than live as the M1 is higher on SS3 now. It has a lower ward consumption too. I've just yet to find it advantageous to sacrifice ward to boost attack, though boosting attack while keeping your ward losses minimal is good.

Also, triple zerked for that amount of damage seems rather low, if we are talking balancing with other end game skills.

[echo bone]

I made those builds very quickly just to show comparison so they're not the best, here is a more ideal build that could probably still be optimized a bit better

[young river]

Thanks, that is seeming a bit more like what i am seeing

[late oracle]

Not 100% sure, but seems like i start hitting the ward wall somewhere in the 200-250k range, after that I think pure attack is better

Really hard to test without checking a variety of builds though

[young river]

At some point I am sure we will figure out the magic number of How much ward is it worth sacrificing for how many points of attack. But we aren't quite there yet.

Dirty little min maxers that some of us tend to be 😄

[echo bone]

[visual crescent]

What a nice build a ss without shield

Seem legit and it work way similar in dps

[west verge]

At a certain point I can’t sacrifice more ward to get past about 32k attack

And I still have around 250k ward on that set up

[silver rampart]

So I threw ss3 on a beoh with 10k ward but with 6k atk and it got nearly the same damage as I got with gilga herc with 280k ward and 4k atk

It is now confirmed ward doesn't matter anymore 😂

[broken bough]

Ward is still half the equation (multiplier), while attack is the other half (penetration)

Do not discount Ward

[gritty plinth]

It sounds like people are finding that increasing ward does literally nothing past a certain point

[cunning canopy]

So, max ward that SS3 drain is 50k, and it will not drain ward if it's not active but damage is low?

[broken bough]

there is a cap you will hit at higher AL, but you are definitely nowhere close to hitting it at 10k Ward

[wild island]

idk if this is relevant, but frenzy on athena vanguard is pretty underwhelming

[broken bough]

Seems to be underwhelming everywhere

[young river]

My suggestions for an immediate go live scenario, remove first turn drain and allow ward regen while using it or greatly reduce the amount of ward it drains per turn. Then tune as necessary after some time in live.

[slow pilot]

What about giving frenzy the option to make SS crit ?

[wild island]

sorry, was just short on time, not trying to lob grenades

i think why it feels underwhelming for me is that in a fight where I can activate it on the 3rd+ round, I dont need extra dmg; and in a fight where i need extra dmg, like a berserk / boss / raid, Athena's auto-ward passive has frenzy disabled

here's a fight i restarted a few times to try to use frenzy

[silver rampart]

I second this

The combo of oppressive ward drain first turn as well as not being able to regen ward during its uptime pretty much cancles out any extra damage we would've gotten from the skill in the first place

At low als at least

[young river]

In addition to making you extremely vulnerable to instant death in a raid scenario just a few turns after using it with pretty much no way to mitigate that but pray

[broken bough]

one min

[silver rampart]

Along with the general meta in pvp being kill your opponent as fast as possible, having to both take a couple turns to regen your ward from half and then having to deal with the drain just makes you an easy target

But tbh I wouldn't use it in raiding as it is

Maybe if I was playing gursa

Actually I haven't tested it with gursa yet brb

[polar sentinel]

frenzy currently isn't worth the risks you take

[broken bough]

#patch-notes

[silver rampart]

Awesome

After my testing with gursa it actually looks pretty good

[broken bough]

#1370416842065313852 message

k fix your votes now, people

[half karma]

The 2 turn requirement resetting every dg floor is intended?

[silver rampart]

?

[half karma]

Imma change my vote anywaysss

[silver rampart]

Like when the host leaves in duo world farm?

Is that what you mean

Like you lose a turn

[young river]

I think he means a new dungeon floor resets the 2 turn wait before you can trigger Frenzy

[half karma]

No, like when i go to 2nd floor and cant activate frenzy t1

[silver rampart]

Oh

That doesn't really sound intended but who knows

[half karma]

Im mainly testing dungeons so thats the thing that popped out for me right away

[pseudo sonnet]

Can we please test no flat miss chance for SS in the beta today if you have some time?

[haughty turtle]

There’s no need to test it. Just implement it and then ship the patch

[young river]

Thought experiment, we go back to SS V2.0 that only scaled M1 (no quadratic scaling), had a 90% reduction on ward contribution for Non Gilga and could crit but had no fixed miss. 😆

[half karma]

Found a little bug where we wont get animations or numbers when frenzy deactivates. I'll post shortly in bugs channel

[half karma]

Bumping this because its a genuine question heheh

[west verge]

I will never change my vote

[twilit pollen]

Yes

[twilit pollen]

Hesitant yes

[twilit pollen]

I would probably trade the crit for a 90% reduction on other classes

[frosty schooner]

I may not be the best to speak of balance, but I've consistently had issues with spiked shield, even off of gilga, being diety. The whole idea behind is is neat, but in practice it's not fun to play against. Especially with zero dodge. They're allowed to be as tanky as possible while completely ignoring mag and att stats. As an RS Bof(was swash before it even came out) it's extremely frustrating to be on the complete side of the spectrum and not have a single chance to even dodge the attack that is almost guaranteed to one shot. I've seen some crazy numbers for ward (1m) and the idea that it almost can't miss is ridiculous. There is a single attack like that in the WHOLE game and it's limited to t1(Perfect Shot) because if it wasn't it would be too strong. It also nulls the dodge chance RS even has between redline and inate dex with very little effort. I understand it could be frustrating to miss an attack like that, but what's even more is that attack NOT being able to miss. Imagine if Realmstrikes wasn't able to miss what would be the point of using any other attack of my tier if my damage ability is always going to hit no matter what happens. But that will be my little rant. Please take this with a grain of salt, Im not opted on beta, but I've ran into frustrations because of this attack/class.

[last haven]

realmstrikes doesn't miss though with a piece or two of accuracy investment, and would delete you as a swash just as easily. agreed though that miss should be axed or reduced. I've wanted it since beginning of beta

[pseudo sonnet]

Im a deity player also. It does seem better in the beta. Its hitting about the same as crit from a bof spec in PVP now but they are still hiding behind a ton of ward and defense where the BOF user doesn't have any of that.

I want to test SS without the flat miss chance when Odie has some time to put it in beta and see how it feels and if dodging it makes it feel more balanced. I'm okay with the current damage if it can be dodged.

It looks like people are unhappy with its current damage tho. I wonder if thats PVP or PVE damage. In PVP its hitting the same or similar to crits from a tank.

[twilit pollen]

Hitting the same as a crit from BoF is a problem. I don't see why Calls and Summoning are much, much, much worse on their respective "incompatible" classes than "Spiked Shield" is on its incompatible classes. If anything, it would make more sense for those levels of effectiveness to be reversed than the current state of Spiked Shield on non-gilgamesh classes.

[young river]

Y'all gon' make me lose my mind. Up in HERE, up in here

[twilit pollen]

My understanding was that Realm Strikes (and Chakram) has an additional 5% miss chance on top of the dex factoring, right?

[fringe mirage]

Dex doesn't factor for it

Only mf (if you can get in range)

[frosty schooner]

slightly more investment, but I still understand what you're driving at. I'm just happy I'm not getting my head bitten off for having my opinion xD

[signal heron]

Like Wrecked said, there is zero dex factor.

Realm Strikes: 15%
Realm Strikes II: 10%
Magic Chakram: 10%
Spiked/Chained Shield: 5% (7% in beta?)

Guts: 50%

Full Bend also has a static miss I think but idk what it is

[late oracle]

Honestly all of these skills might be better off if instead of having static hit chance, they all had bonus to hit. IMO not great for any skill to invalidate dex, but okay that there are options in particular scenarios to close the gap.

[signal heron]

I'm pretty sure for Realm Strikes it has always been viewed as a downside

It's definitely less of one now that so many things give +accuracy, but I think that was it's original intent

[pseudo sonnet]

It's def not a down side for SS. Don't need dex and you always hit.

[haughty turtle]

Just delete all static miss chance skills, they add nothing to the game

[late oracle]

I dont mean to say its a downside, when I say better off I mean from a balance perspective, a lot of the realms I know take issue with Chakram almost as much as they do with spiked shield. IMO better balance state if SS and Chakram were like +5-15 chance to hit and allow the rest to be made up by dex, gear amity, etc.

[haughty turtle]

Exception for things like sands of aaru and perfect shot

Anything with potential to hit hard shouldn’t have a fixed miss chance imo

[pseudo sonnet]

Defense building stops chakram and RS but it doesnt stop SS till you get extreme amounts of defense

[placid sedge]

I wont say it adds nothing but I think its a mechanic that hasnt aged well. I traditionally am not against this sort of "extra effect balancing" but currently it feels if there are to be extra effects as a downside they may be better if done in another manner.

[haughty turtle]

If you’re building hard into defense, you’re not getting as much dex. You cancel out those skills but suddenly lost the stat that was protecting you from all others

[signal heron]

My controversial opinion is that 60% dodge chance would be a problem if people couldn't balance against it with fixed miss chance skills

[placid sedge]

Tbf thats MF and if u activate MF thats your fault lol

[signal heron]

Dorado is 60% by default at 3000+ dex

[placid sedge]

Dex can also be out dexed as far as our Dorado testing has shown

[haughty turtle]

You need to severely out dex your opponent for that

[placid sedge]

thought it was 50%?

[signal heron]

I'll tell the Gilgas to out-dex the Realmshifter 😆

[haughty turtle]

Polly Y was just here

[placid sedge]

Were talking PvP so... thats really not that unrealistic?

[late oracle]

But if a person is gearing enough Dex to get 60% dodge, I think thats an earned advantage. But I think there should also be options to mitigate the advantage, to-hit bonus, etc. I dont believe really skills need to be fixed to the 90-95% range.

[haughty turtle]

Still, I think Geppu’s suggestion is a fair middle ground

[signal heron]

50% is the multiplier, it multiplies 40% by 1.5x to get 60%

[placid sedge]

ahh got it, read it as it buffing to 50% from 40

[signal heron]

I'll agree that SS3 shouldn't be both high penetration and fixed miss chance

I'd rather skills be pick one

[placid sedge]

Echoing Geppu here, having a hidden "to hit" modifier as he says sounds like an awesome solution. Essentially adding a +x% Dex boost in the background on skill use

[haughty turtle]

I’d rather SS3 have high pen than fixed miss personally. Feels more thematic to have a barbarian swinging wildly until he hits, but when he hits he knocks you on your ass

No reason why the warrior line should be a “sniper” that can’t miss

[pseudo sonnet]

there is high Pen, Damage, Low miss rate you cant have all 3. RS chakram has high damage and low miss rate but not high pen. SS shouldnt have all 3

[late oracle]

I'm not saying SS needs additional hit rate but just overall think to hit would be a better approach. Also since it wouldn't be as black and white would open up other moves to have the stat in varying quantities

[twilit pollen]

Then how was I making you whiff so much with Chakram 🤔

[fringe mirage]

I have no idea... I wasn't putting you into mf range initially. It's why I was so confused. Territory wasn't the same at all

Territory was like 2 - 3 hits even if I put you in mf, but settlements were a completely different story. Tanked the chakram and stayed at a decently high HP while dodging hits left and right lol. I assume you had settlement buffs on, but idk. Also partially why I sat on the build instead of going full glass, but I couldn't figure out why it was happening lol. I'm sure you're still holding a bit on the East end, if I have any reason to go over there I'll try it again and record a few for you

[west verge]

This is why I liked the prior beta

SS lost fixed miss rate

Gilga was given some additional accuracy passive/dex baseline (sorry realm lol)

And it felt pretty good in ang1.0 with dex scaling

PvP I didn’t get to test a ton but with more dex gear available today it could be workable

[twilit pollen]

I didn't get to test that part out in beta, but it sounded better theoretically. Maybe just tone Ranger down a bit.

[west verge]

Ranger did go from 50 to 30

But idk how balanced that even is at that rate

[haughty turtle]

30 is still crazy high honestly. And now it exists in a world where one of the main reasons for it was even removed

[west verge]

Yes that too

Kinda funny lol

Ranger: when using a bow SS gains fixed miss chance

Uses shields instead of arrows

Oh before I go

🔒

[fringe mirage]

Heretic can become the OP ss users do it

[twilit pollen]

However, a skill you can out-damage glass canons with while tanking with tons of ward shouldn't make dex completely irrelevant

That's ignoring the important issue of out-damaging glass canons (which may be outdated, I'm unsure of the current state of the beta).