3.17 General

[gray solar]

excellent

[loud briar]

... Well, not really, I don't have the guild levels

But once I do, yes

[desert scaffold]

.. Im hunting through guild rewards to look for this thing, and

I cant barely see what any of this is

its too small and shadeboxed

and way too small

and you gotta click on a button to view all? is this cause it looks better on a tablet? why not just scroll down...

[fierce island]

Weird, they're sized correctly on my screen

[spring ice]

Did you change your DPI?

[desert scaffold]

maybe theyre fixed size?

[spring ice]

Actually everything in the background looks normal

[desert scaffold]

you could make them sparkle and lowlighted when theyre claimable / after theyre claimed too

theres no way i can see these outside, anyway

[loud yew]

They do light up/gray out when they're claimable/claimed?

[hybrid sluice]

You're gaining xp in anguish??

[loud yew]

I have yes, unless something was changed late yesterday/today?

[loud yew]

Here's a better example on my alt

[hybrid sluice]

I have gained 0 xp

[loud yew]

Can confirm, I am

[hybrid sluice]

Must just be path of agony still fully bugged

[loud yew]

Have you killed any T10 raids? Curious if it's only giving for your tier kinda like towers

[hybrid sluice]

Yes, plenty

Path of agony gives no xp, and doesn't give anguished gear of your level

[loud yew]

Huh, yeah must be bugged

[desert scaffold]

these would imply to me that i can click on the bright ones.. and theyre still too small to read

or guess what the pic is

when I click on them tho they get big so thats a workaround

also idk how rare anguish gear will be but maybe legendary gear having passives would be cool .. these drop rates are unrealistic, and I use a lot of fames & legendary gear in live

[desert scaffold]

sry for wall of text.

I think the daily login path rewards are possibly a good model for the guild rewards

idk

i just got frustrated i couldnt see them

[elfin falcon]

Heya, where do i direct my feedback towards shackles?

[serene bluff]

I don't think there is a thread dedicated to it and I see talk of it here

[elfin falcon]

Just wanted to care about last time where the topic was divded feedback

[serene bluff]

May want to see the other posts on it or check the ORN consolidated thread https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1369722966685782026

[elfin falcon]

Nothing new in there i didnt read, still glad you pointed it out

Basically, i genuenly dislike the execution of shackles. While it is a great concept, it takes away a huge amount of fun out of the system.
I reached level 5, and either i lose about 80% of my power for a measly 0,4-0,8% increase in proofs and slow down farming so much its basically a joke, or i farm so slow that farming on 5 makes no sense in general. So the best strat would be to just farm a ton of proofs on 4, get the gear on higher difficults so you can progress, until you reach the anguish level recommended for your ascension.

The scaledown is WAY too strong. I understand it is done so Anguish 2.0 will not be just use to increase rewards - but a faster way to progress to your designed power level would be much appreciated, that doesnt involve cheaping you out of your power you earned.

[serene bluff]

That was pretty much going to be my strategy, but I am pretty low, so I won't get up too much higher than 15 anguish maybe.

[elfin falcon]

At ASC 94 its gonna take a while till im up there regardless :D

Almost everything else is super fun and engaging and im SUPER hyped for Anguish 2.0 but thats the one part for me i feel cheaped out of

[serene bluff]

I think the slow down is to prevent people from blowing through the content

[elfin falcon]

still think shackles should give +reward instead of not using them giving -reward, hard to balance but still less cheap.
Or just reduce the amount of nerfs depending on how high your unlocked anguish is

aka if my highest is 5, no shackles no nerf, but once i unlock six, start slapping maluses on it

[modern saffron]

shackles are disastrous, since they were implemented in beta I stopped doing towers because I lost all motivation to do AL (and that's the only reason to do towers after a while), given higher AL isn't going to make you more efficient at gathering resources anymore

[gusty basalt]

At any point you dont have to do anguish towers

[valid raven]

Are any beoA mains testing pets on ang 2.0 content? Outside of raids, does the hp scaling kill pet builds?

[compact rover]

Waiting for mirroring to have a more deep experience...

Please Odie Dangy, could you do new mirror entries ? The last mirror since was 8 days ago.

[hushed berry]

Mirrors are usually Dangy's jurisdiction

[compact rover]

Thanks I adapted

[loud yew]

There was a bug with BeoA pet ALs (and summoner), haven't tried it since the fix tho

[loud yew]

Is it orna's 6th or 7th birthday? Live has a 6 but beta has a 7

[serene bluff]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AndroidGaming/comments/8kpma7/dev_orna_a_new_gps_rpg/

7 years ago

[loud yew]

Fey Cactus can't even do Ang15 decently with 1 HP redline, Att++/+, and Gunnr

[valid raven]

Rip beoA anguish farm, though maybe Selene might be mandatory for beoA anguish farm attempts

Selene is 10 shards on beta so might be worth an attempt

[loud yew]

Yeah I'll try it

I mean it's good when she actually uses the right skill, but took me almost 4 mins from floor 17 -> 25...

I mean I could have used call of skadi, but that's just another skill to check to see if I lost, I'd sooner play Base Beo/BeoH

And Im struggling for a horde build to work for BeoH
But honestly kinda feels like Beo overall just struggles in Ang2.0, at least efficiency wise

[gaunt turtle]

Selene needs an AI fix if she is going to be an anguish solution. The stat maluses from Gunnr/Snotra should make it more rare to use the opposite attack types, but she never cares about that.

Hell she still slams lunarstrikes into Pegasus waves

[loud yew]

I feel with BeoAs base +20% follower AI she should know not to hit a solo RS with lunar strikes directly after hitting it with lunar strikes and it being fully immune 💀

I mean if Heretic's can get rid of spells they feel are useless can we get rid of follow skills/spells we feel are useless

[viscid bloom]

Pet when 2 lunar strikes in a row (enemy immune):

[loud yew]

There are so many that could be so much better/actually useful if they didn't just use/spam useless skills, or if buffs weren't so prioritized

[gaunt turtle]

To be completely fair, if titan follower AI was fixed perfectly at any time in the past towerfall would have had to be instantly nerfed into uselessness.

Now is actually a good time to figure this out though.

I mean, just imagine being able to guarantee towerfall with pre-nerf damage.

[loud yew]

Oh 100%, but the main reason I hate use BeoA besides cactus is purely because of how frustrating it is to use a pet with more than 2 skills, and there are so many BBs that just actively make the follower worse, or are just borderline useless

[gaunt turtle]

I do wish there was a way to turn some of those off. Lindworm could potentially be on the level of ASG since you can pick an affinity to pair Lyon's with... but half of its turns are spent spamming that wyrmseal or whatever skill.

Anyways I'll quit bringing up follower AI concerns.

[loud yew]

Yeah it kinda sucks seeing all other classes like Gilga, RS, Heretic, and Deity get attention but Beo non, but this is also not a class balance patch it's mainly for Ang2.0, and I understand NF can't do everything at once, but Beo's time will come eventually 💪

[gaunt turtle]

It doesn't help our case that we are a slight raiding balance atrocity right now either

[maiden sierra]

Is ward scaling correctly with anguished spec? I'm tryin it on Gherc but i see only the mana and hp increments

[elfin falcon]

Mostly cause Anguish Dungeons content rn is built against 1v1, not horde. BeoA is most definitely the only class that can do anguish 15 boss horde dungeons that efficiently in horse

[hybrid sluice]

I'd like to see at least one unique reward type for each Anguish path, something that isn't really seen elsewhere in Orna. Here's what I mean:

• Raids: raid luck bonuses allows for multiples of the same item dropping, possibly increased chances of ornate drops as well.
• Dungeons: bonuses to EOD drops - like increased quantities, increased rarities, and/or increased quality.
• Towers/Monuments: chance for multiple monumental proofs per enemy (increased baseline chance in towers), chance for random enemies to gain godforge aura (similar to random zerk malus)
• World farming: increased chance for quest enemies, event enemies, baseline arch-alchemy rate (can increase rate/quantity), increased monster spawn rate, chance for random monsters/bosses to have godforge aura, increased memory hunt interaction range, increased VD??

[gentle grove]

ALs? 🥺

[upper meadow]

After nerf towerfall, BeoA looks very normal if compare their raiding speed to others

Im trying deity with crit dmg ultima build (50-60al without perfect gear) able to hit 5m +

But my 97al beo just do 8m TF damage after fix ascension bug. (With lot of stupid follower AI act & buff drop)

And beoa losing the way to farm 2.0 dungeon now.

[loud yew]

106

[valid raven]

Probably need to try eastern regalia, av3/av4, storming tempest or cs build. Dmg is probably too low on full aoe with hp scaling

Not sure on how effective ymir brilliant feathers would be on beoH but that's also an option I guess

Ping me if you test those since I don't have half of those and might need to get them

[zealous coral]

Any1 lost an item when mirrored? My recent mirror doesnt have my windtamer shoes 😦

[granite lily]

We did? Which ones? 😮

[desert scaffold]

if beoA struggles with anguish more than others, the pets can get updated, it doesn't have to be perfect at launch

[echo night]

I think sirith meant passives

[sacred flame]

is the beta version on iOS not released yet?

[viscid bloom]

Pobably not if you don't see the update in the BETA orna

Android superiority proven right here

[sacred flame]

Orna makes me think about buying Android

• no crashes
• no lag
• no need to keep your inventory cleaned
• does not heat up during fishing

[hushed berry]

You should definitely still clean your inventory.

[polar cloak]

Summoners

[loud yew]

Summoners and Beo's rn

[polar cloak]

Looking rough for us honestly, like to the point farming without anguish may be the call

[sacred flame]

It doesn’t solve the problem.

I do this quite often. Sometimes my inventory does not exceed 100-200 items including resources.

I know players who have been getting the large inventory warning for over a year now. And they don't have the problems that are so common on iOS.

[fierce island]

John's point is that Android still needs to clean their inventory - I don't think iOS has any different inventory specific problems that Android doesn't have

[loud yew]

@valid raven tagging you here cause I don't like posting beta stuff on regular chats,
it's a struggle, this is all fully GFed max anguish gear, skipping all "-AoE Dmg" maluses

[viscid bloom]

Iirc the most items I had were like in the 1500? And the worst things that happened were prolonged black screens/pauses between floors in dungeons and small pauses here and there

[valid raven]

That's rough, how's it looking for pseudo aoe options?

[viscid bloom]

O dam

I think I might need the endless setup if I want to run anguished dungeons then

[loud yew]

Not with permanent status fall off maluse

[viscid bloom]

Summons are affected too???

[zealous coral]

It may be safer with slice. I tested (not that much and gilga only) and it was alright. Needs a buffing phase of course 😬

[viscid bloom]

It will be a nightmare tgen

[zealous coral]

Oh youre a summoner? Man idk then 😂 not looking too good for GSs

[viscid bloom]

Bold words, unfortunately I'm a summoner and if things have the combined health of a damn RAID AND can take multiple turns, I need every bit of survivability I can

[valid raven]

Time to hoc for ang 2.0

[zealous coral]

Maybe it is time for a GSH rework to make him heavily dependant on gear, but strong with high investment (which is what ang2.0 will bring to the table)

[valid raven]

Hopefully beo and gs get something for the follower/pet play style

[viscid bloom]

I'd rather deal with one gigantic dingus than 5 smaller dinguses that hit equally hard

[valid raven]

Just go normal horde mode

[zealous coral]

Thats indeed a good approach 🫂

[valid raven]

Since apparently that also works for ang 2.0

[valid raven]

Was this with Nagamaki or ybf?

[zealous coral]

I used ybf, but a.naga will give you more ward

[loud yew]

Even worse

[zealous coral]

The problem being that youre now dependant on not getting 2 maluses: crit and buff fade

[valid raven]

Hmm

[zealous coral]

Unless you use non crit ybf

[valid raven]

Are pseudo aoe affected by -aoe damage?

[zealous coral]

No

Theyre not aoe, theyre considered "chained dmg"

[valid raven]

Then how's pseudo aoe doing worse?

Shouldn't it be better than 2h full aoe

[zealous coral]

And i didnt know that until 2 days ago lol

[fierce island]

I don't know how pseudo AoE is doing worse either - it's doing pretty well imo

[zealous coral]

It is for gursa at the very least. Maybe sirith benefits a lot from hyb monster so his swansong is better (?)

[valid raven]

What's the go to for rs? Back to cs again?

[fierce island]

Cs, Slice, possible Ravage

[valid raven]

Isn't ravage m1 terrible?

Plus t9 weapon

[zealous coral]

Oh man ravage I forgot about that

Its t10

T8 and 10 I think

[valid raven]

Huh

[zealous coral]

Innit?

[valid raven]

I guess I'm mixing it up with the mob drop

Both have the same sprite

From what I remember

[zealous coral]

Knight help me my brain is not stronk

[fierce island]

Ravage has an M1 of 1. It's not great but it's potentially workable at some anguish levels and content

[zealous coral]

Oh m1 of 1 dayum

[zealous coral]

But since it cant crit you can go full mortars and up its base dmg big time

You will need ymir charm though ☝️

[valid raven]

Pretty easy to anguish as well I think since beast blood is pretty common in events

[fierce island]

It's Realmshifter so I feel like I usually need the Ymir Charm anyway

[valid raven]

And also a t2 mat

[zealous coral]

I cond have an ornate keb claws though 😦

[fierce island]

Hel's Garb stops the stunned but it looks like there isn't any good way to stop Paralyze

[valid raven]

I'll probably use the ybf

[fierce island]

Yeah, nothing wrong with that aside from needing to dodge crit maluses

[valid raven]

Unless melee classes get a better pseudo aoe option

[fierce island]

Aglostrike is good too if anyone has an ornate Aglovale

[valid raven]

Absolutely decimates your ward no?

[fierce island]

Yes and it's worse than Slice

[valid raven]

Hmm

[brittle viper]

Aglostrike II should attack 2 to 5 opponents IMO

[zealous coral]

Man id love an up to 2 targets pseudo aoe that couldnt crit

Make it a huge hammer and im as sold as US congressmen

[valid raven]

I want a cool halberd or spear

[hasty solstice]

max summonstat ophion and making fafnirs spam ravage xD

[fierce island]

Melee alternative to the Windtamer shield would be cool

[zealous coral]

We do have one

👀

Its just slower

2x slower to be precise

[fierce island]

I am absolutely not counting Upward Strike II if that's what you're talking about

[zealous coral]

Sowwy 🫠

[errant girder]

Uhh upward strike I think can't crit

[zealous coral]

Refer to knights msg :v

[valid raven]

Buff this

[fierce island]

A two-turn spell that hits multiple targets is bad, because I can also just attack twice and hit two targets if I wanted to take two turns

[zealous coral]

Preach

[valid raven]

True, just go full t4 warrior fomorian gear

[errant girder]

But upward strike sucks so it kinda cancles out

[errant girder]

Oh

[valid raven]

85% chance to hit an additional target iirc

Or was it a bit lower

Idk

[errant girder]

And it just has bad scaling in general 😔

[fierce island]

It got buffed with the 2h update

At least now it does generally deal more damage than a 1-turn skill...

Not double damage, mind you

[errant girder]

I'm using it with gursa and fully buffed it barely did 10k more than my fey chimera did

🤣

[zealous coral]

Jeezzzzz

[errant girder]

With GURSA

[zealous coral]

You also have to sacrifice a ton of item slots since youll defend for 1 turn and youre likely gonna catch a debuff or 2

I didnt like it and wouldnt ever use it in its current state

[errant girder]

Maybe it just has a high chance to roll low on damage

Caus It hit 90k at first and then around 100k for the next 3 attempts and randomly hit 200k on the next

Either way it really doesn't have much going for it

[zealous coral]

Upward strike is for efficacious II builds 👀

[brittle viper]

Makes sense

[fierce island]

Skill issue

|| ||

[elfin falcon]

imagine beeing able to use more then a handful of pets if you arent a beo :O

[loud yew]

I did not realize this, so it'll probably be better if I swap some Ang choices

[errant girder]

😦

I can only do so much with 15 als

[elfin falcon]

Time to enter the industrial age

[errant girder]

Gilga-locked world farming isn't the best for getting orns for als

😆

[elfin falcon]

Raids, dungeons etc :o

[desert scaffold]

crush?

[fierce island]

Crush can crit, and is worse than Slice in basically every way

[desert scaffold]

oh. ive never seen it crit... that might be self evident of what youre saying tho

[zealous coral]

Crush may be really cool against ang ymir though!

I have a hammer ready just for this

[desert scaffold]

ganbare

anguish is gonna be good

[rotund wharf]

Do we have a tentative drop date?

[fierce island]

After the bugs are fixed and Odie is reasonably happy with the balance

Basically: No

[serene bluff]

Dangy said the famous Soon™ was the goal

[elfin falcon]

panics in anguish guild lv 94 wanting the 100 batch

[gusty basalt]

Thank you for the mirror 🎉🎉🎉

[proven scaffold]

No stress - I locked the thread for now and may re-open it after we have a handle on Ornaversary.
The open thread leads some folks to thinking it'll be instant, resulting in pings and DMs even though it does say it'll be done as time permits haha

[gusty basalt]

Yeah totally understand! Seems like shit work from everything I have heard over the years. I am really enjoying the early game grind of anguish and cant wait to play through and give feedback 😃

[proven scaffold]

Ah it's not shit, especially cause Odie improved the process a lot! It's just manual

Per character I have to download a character, then import them to a different client. So there's multiple windows on the go

Amongst every message I get and the reading I try to keep on top of in here and the other spaces, it's just one of the things. To individuals, it's the only thing they want done

Tis the normal push and pull of this job, but most folks are amazingly patient and awesome

[gusty basalt]

Seems mundane. Thanks for putting in the work. I am sure it can be the bottom of the list type thing lol

[fallen zenith]

Loud impatient noises. Reeeeeeeeee

Ty Dangy

[fluid jungle]

Just realized I'll lose my guild hero badge once I transition anguish 1 to anguish 2

[hybrid sluice]

Is that how that works though

[fluid jungle]

it might be ¯_(ツ)_/¯

iirc someone was complaining about losing their 200 pet badge once they equiped pets on othersouls

[cunning pulsar]

Gotta grind those memories

[latent karma]

Or fish for 8 minutes

[granite lily]

Hey all, I just tested Grand Elementalist. The description says that it should be paired with a class in the omnimancy line.
What I found is that the chain works similarly in other classes (tested with DAra and HAra) in that the last spell casts twice. The difference seems to be that damage per element of the chain does not get boosted.
Is this the intended way for the spec to work?

[fierce island]

The spec is a leftover from something tried in the Heretic rework and isn't part of Anguish 2.0

I don't believe it's actually going into the live game

[uncut rampart]

Thinking of general maluses, Knight talking about "inverting amity effects" made me realize a great malus suggestion:

• Less damage while on full HP 😈

Targets turn1 damage in turn1 places (towers mostly), targets the three non-redline classes (heretic gilga summoner), makes optimal gameplay a little less safe (need to run a dot or spend a turn on doubleedge/lifepact or get hit without DB; have to do that at the start and after panacea usage).

Someone convince me it's not a fantastic addition 😅

[granite lily]

I don't hate it, but I know people who would not be happy

Depends on if it replaces something else. I would take that over ward failure for instance

[uncut rampart]

Yeah I dislike ward failure mostly because there's too-limited ways to build HP instead of ward (in any appreciable quantity). So it feels like there's little the player can do or change in their build to handle it.

Meanwhile this one can be built around. Notably incorporating a dot somewhere, or running high-but-not-100% absorption.

[cinder bronze]

- Added a little thing for lategame Valor classes
what are these?

[timid shale]

#1370141629444395028 message

[cinder bronze]

Thanks

[edgy minnow]

did Valor just get Rage ability 👀

like the true DnD barbarians

[granite lily]

I want to check but my beta apps don't have it, or I can't find it

[edgy minnow]

update~

waiting on Orna v3.17.24beta on playmarket

for me its still 23

[granite lily]

Oh, orna only

I see how it is

[desert scaffold]

how about (like beast bonds) % chance for t.malus on start

instead of t.boon

[loud yew]

Two-handed anguish modifier buffed 👀

[tribal pond]

add a 0 behind that 3 and we're cooking

[edgy minnow]

so if we omit -aoe damage, swansong in dungeons still viable :D
def/res pen on swan + 2h power on boots

just please dont make me spend 137 crucibles to roll 10% pen

[echo night]

1-13% roll good luck

[loud yew]

So far after 140 rolls lowest I've seen is 8% and highest 14%

[echo night]

Phew gotta love that high floor

[worn pawn]

ang 2.0 sounds like rng hell

[loud yew]

The updated visual for Ang modifiers

[valid raven]

You can only have one passive line at a time right?

[loud yew]

One per piece of gear yes

[fallen lark]

are kingdoms supposed to just not load

[uncut rampart]

@hybrid void
https://discordapp.com/channels/448527960056791051/1370141629444395028/1374499057912774767

I want to talk about this a lot more but I also don't want to pollute the SS thread.
Call it "general philosophy for anguish2.0 beta" 😅

My initial thoughts are:

1. It is acceptable for there to be pve content in T10 that early T10ers just can't do. Aspirational content, hard raids, that they'll work up to. It's wrong to expect or want early T10 to be able to cap raids in a minute on day (or month) one of hitting the tier. I think ~everyone is a fan of this, normal RPG progression.

2. It is up to NF to ensure that there always exists challenge for players. If NF adds a system for players to scale "infinitely", then they also must scale enemies "infinitely". If this goes away ||and has been gone for some time 😬|| then it's a hazard for longevity.*

3. The gap between low and high is definitely a concern overall. Not all "infinite progressions" are equal -- if ascension hockeysticks in requirements or has diminishing benefit, then that's very different than the way it is now (where unlock requirements go up but players can farm more efficiently with higher ALs, making it closer to linear). Primarily this comes up in territory pvp discussions, but for pve it comes up in terms of "where does endgame start/where should NF focus their endgame design"? If a final tier must exist, why shouldn't it be T10?

*Ang2.0 comes in here, kinda. Because it's opt-in, I see it as something more like joining two completely different games together. Traditionally games work the other way around -- instead of shackles, it would be that players can't ascend unless they have a certain anguish level completed, not as an opt-in. Meanwhile there are idle games which have number-go-up, where playing is a social/pastime activity, and pve doesn't really matter at all.

[modern dragon]

I think a lot of older and highly ascended players forgot how hard the game was/is as a fresh t10. There's a lot of aspirational content and a lot of gear to pick up and that takes time even if you're more active than the average person. And let's not forget some events used to be significantly easier to farm, events these days are designed to limit the speed at which you can obtain everything

[desert scaffold]

i read your WoT @fux and I dont know if its a question or a position youre taking..

that anguish being hard is good?

[uncut rampart]

it's in response to Pie's retort; linked in the SS thread.

Ultimately it matters when it comes down to determining if balance changes should be just in anguish2.0, or if they should affect the whole game.

[elfin falcon]

I can't heart react to this, so i agree to all of what you jut said, its beautiful.

[granite lily]

do you think it takes a longer time for a newer player to get fully setup now than in earlier versions of the game?

Full disclosure - I don't think so. I haven't even been around as long as Fux has but having gone through the early t10 section of the game a handful of times, including starting entirely from scratch when I made the move to HoA, I truly believe the game has gotten easier and easier over time. This is not a bad thing inherently but it does put into question the argument that older players just 'forget' how hard the game has been. If anything, it is the opposite.

[modern dragon]

As far as ascension goes no, but gearing? Maybe about the same. In some ways it's easier and in some ways harder. But starting out as a fresh t10 is rough. If you have a good support network, access to advice, and are very active you can progress quickly, but orna is still an incredibly grindy game

[desert scaffold]

its easy to forget how the game feels at t10 al 0, even if its also easy to remember how much harder the grind was

[granite lily]

I don't think anyone is saying it is not, nor do I really understand very well where the argument is going if we are now shifting to progress being helped with a good support network

[desert scaffold]

you said, that older players remember the game when it was even harder than now, and so have a good idea how balance in t10 is now.

im saying, players who have ascended more than 30 AL, have a significantly distorted viewpoint. and players who have ascended 100 AL can just do whatever they want cause there's no balance at 100AL right now, there never was, and talking about balance at 100+ AL is nonsense

[upper meadow]

I agree too, low al gonna be hard with next update, while chained sheild get nerf / stasis 10% act etc

I wonder why keep nerf pve playstyle, who will complain pve？ because it make your grind process get faster？

The main issue always coming from "PvP"

[spring ice]

It's not really meant for low AL.. what's the point of the game if you don't have to work towards anything? Low AL should want to grind to be able to progress in the content

A fresh t10 should not be on the same lvl of another player that has put in 10x the effort lol

[hybrid void]

I agree with your philosophy for the most part. There is currently not a whole not of aspirational / difficult base content in the game now. Some raids like morri, amorri, great anguish etc. come to mind, those are definitely not immediately doable for most new players, and towers of olympia is usually a challenge for newer players as well, but the game does not have that much challenging base content, kinda wish it had more as well.

While ang 2.0 is technically opt in, the fact that anguished gear exists imo at least strongly motivates players to enable anguish in content where they might usually not do so, such as raids. Sure you could still just grind the raids really fast with anguish disabled if you want, but the gear you get will be be 'worse' than the gear you can get from anguished raids, so maybe anguish raiding will become the default for endgame players? Not quite sure how it will play out. And I think the shackles are a prett good solution to ensure that each anguish level is played at a relatively similar difficulty level across players, not like current anguish where you can simply ascend your way out of the difficulty.

[hybrid void]

is it really that strange to nerf things in pve? It happens all the time in other games as well. If you dont nerf things you end up with massive powercreep in the game. For me at least part of the fun in the game is the challenge, and if everything is trivial then it's not really fun. I wouldnt enjoy the game if it was a number go up simulator with very little challenge but thats just my opinion. The stasis nerf was really needed to prevent people from cheesing ang 2.0 right away with stasis, and SS/CS were outliers at higher al in both pve and pvp because of quadratic scaling (hope they fix BP pve quadratic scaling too at some point because it's also an outlier).

[valid raven]

One thing I wanted to know, does naturally anguished gear drop with standard 170-200% variance or always 200%?

And secondly, will anguish work against arisen waygates?

[viscid bloom]

Oh god, imagine anguished Odie

[hasty solstice]

Still no summon/pet stats

[viscid bloom]

Weapons can have summon stats

From what I remember seeing

[proper dagger]

I dont know if it would be too much, but bb1 modifier would be nice on one sort of gear as ang boost

[hasty solstice]

Nope i just had weird bug on my weapon i think

[upper meadow]

The nerf should not coming after 1 year or 2 year when it aready be a common playstyle, I rather choose to scale those creep

Imagine everyone invest on it, grind a set of equipment with 6 month + , and it suddenly go trashbin because a updated.

As you know the game really take a lot of time to farm a proper event set, if the playstyle is uncontrolable - please fixed it early so player will not doing wrong invest

[fierce island]

Yeah, that's a symptom of Orna's slow update schedule because it's a small dev team

Stuff like Selene Hands and CS have been considered too powerful for a couple years now, but NF only now has the time to update them.

[upper meadow]

I hope it will be the last balance for the game, i remember in old time, there was lot of heretic player quit the game because the nerf

[hybrid void]

with games like this, balance updates happen all the time. With orna it's just slower than most other games in the genre because it's a smaller team

[upper meadow]

Sometime they should be more mature, every nerf change effect hundred / thousand maybe more player.

The excuse - small team will not help anything, just make sure everything release with well test, even it take longer time.

As i saw ang2.0 tower gonna be hard because the cc / sc nerf, do you guys found a way for it？

I didnt trying tower yet on my beta account

[fierce island]

At this point, I'm fine with it being too hard because of the CC/SS nerf, because it's easier to buff something or add something new later than nerf something post-Ang 2.0 release

[upper meadow]

I think so, maybe it will be a good idea if they put somethings new in hype, so player will feels more acceptable for 2.0

Because too much bad news now

Of course, i hope they release new things with well test🤡

[fierce island]

It's not bad news: there's an entire new gamemode lol

[upper meadow]

So i dont need to facing another nerf

[upper meadow]

It coming with good & bad news - good things newest challenge and playable content

Something bad : The new mode gonna crash some player / their cheese etc

Like beoA in ang2.0 looks impossible

[brittle viper]

Not exactly bad

[upper meadow]

It depends, for me ang2.0 dungeon is acceptable

[brittle viper]

Beowulf can no longer do anguish 50 with orns equipment

[upper meadow]

Maybe need a little adjust on battle modifer

[upper meadow]

I think they will not run orns equipment in 50 ang dungeon

Im running aaru wall / god + 1300 dex to make sure it will no miss on fey cactus attack.

[spring ice]

The real question is, is the 200% scale even real? I have always wondered since Odie added the appraiser and it only goes to 100. 90/100 piece doesn't sound too bad, but I don't like a 180/200 piece 😂. (Odie pls give an answer)

[loud yew]

Now Beowulf can barely run anguish at all

[loud yew]

It does still have the 170% - 200% scale when it drops as anguish, just think of it as a regular ornate drop, then just + Ang level/bonus

[valid raven]

I mean, some gear very obviously does go to say 181% or 187% when you divide it by the base stats, so I do believe the 200% scale is real

[loud yew]

No you will need to manually anguish them with DWTs (at least as of rn), same with apollo X/Y gear, etc

[valid raven]

Ah, the anguish 2.0 intro video said anguished gears always drop with the best stats so I thought it would always be 200%

[loud yew]

Maybe it did at one point

[hasty solstice]

Beowulf anguish horde is morelikely dead

[valid raven]

Auriga 100%, hopefully beoH will still have some viable strategies

[loud yew]

That said tho, BeoH can honestly do solo Reg/Boss dungeons far past its recommended AL/shackles if you have good anguish gear

[valid raven]

Also, I think HAra might become the best class for horde boss in ang2.0 with sigil flask+vestaga

[fierce island]

Horde dungeons as a whole are extremely difficult and may be "dead" for most classes

[drowsy wren]

While I fully agree on the need of the nerf please do not fall into the "it is a small dev team" argument again. For a "small dev team" the released features over the years are impressive - and as in most software projects it is a problem of prioritization where to put work.

Do you want to get new features (aka content) or do you want to rework old code (aka fixing things)?
A decision was made here.

[fierce island]

I definitely don't always agree with where Northern Forge puts their dev efforts

I think a hesitation to make smaller, quick fixes leads to huge problems and extremely long arguments with the playerbase later down the line

However I know they try their best

[junior matrix]

As we’re seeing in this beta, decreasing numbers takes considerably more time than feature dev, given the community back and forth, etc.

Most studios do not prioritize this much community alignment imo

[fierce island]

At times I almost wish you'd prioritize community alignment less 😅

I think there's merit in saying "This is broken and needs to change, the change is done, end of discussion" to some issues. I think some of these beta threads dragging on for weeks/months feels draining to anyone who's invested in them on either side of the argument

[drowsy wren]

I guess a lot of people appreciate that. But as you said, it takes time and effort and regardless what you are doing now, a few people will not be happy.
Maybe sometimes less discussion and more action (+communication) is necessary to see progress. Even if people are unhappy

[junior matrix]

Another part of the process is what I call the digestion period. There needs to be some deliberate time between announcement (open beta) and launch, so that players have time to prepare their alternative builds for post-nerf

[eternal drum]

I can't wait to get rid of all my SS builds! It's going to be like playing a whole new game.

[drowsy wren]

yes, the emotional response to change needs time

[granite lily]

The power of marketing

[edgy minnow]

it is real if you look at math, quality is a multiplier, so base item is 100% OR more accurately - x1.0 stats, so 200% ornate is x2.0 stats, 200% came from translating x2.0 multiplier into % type, but for ingame ui odie narrows it down to a 35-100 range, probably because... some people are ultra bad at math and dont understand how %'s or multipliers work, but they "feel" how 0-100 scale works

[eternal drum]

That stat make it seem real 200% gives double the stats other than dex as a normal 100%

[edgy minnow]

I'm having a brain fart reading what you just said, but, 200% ornate is litteraly 200% stats of base item, you can always find exact quality by dividing by common item stats (excluding stats that doesnt scale of course)

[neat glacier]

I like about it for pvp

Because i can explore new builds for meta outside of SS

[edgy minnow]

like verse 4 / rend epee

[eternal drum]

Nothing else is even close to SS in terms of meta or power esp when you include static miss chance you cant even dodge it lol

[neat glacier]

True but it's fun to have alternatives too

[eternal drum]

I'm just happy its not OP in BOF because of the 50% damage cap per turn.

[edgy minnow]

we can all agree, that 3 turn pvp due to SS is NOT FUN

against bots its ok

but not against people

[neon raptor]

this looks like some good design out of the inflated ward state of orna. Give classes more ways to incentivize spending ward

i hope ios beta client will see this eventually

[junior matrix]

“Hey Apple, does a 24-48 hour review process for beta patches really make sense?”

[fierce island]

"No, 48-96 hours is what's really needed to ensure nothing malicious is in testing content"

=
Actual question though, is another client update needed for Shadowveil?

[junior matrix]

No, .24 should be able to handle it

[tribal pond]

Kniiiiight wowowo

[toxic wind]

Yeah dont see shadowveil on .24 yet

[neon raptor]

no but we have a special garden with our own rules

[half hare]

New Gilg identity patch?

[uncut rampart]

I believe the identity has gone from "uses ward to increase damage" -> "uses ward to increase damage"

[loud yew]

Will all classes get some form of these new class abilities? Or just the main 3?

[half hare]

Not that I main Gilg but it looks cool, shadowmancy is getting something too.

[serene bluff]

This may actually get me back into playing RS again

[half hare]

Frenzy is in the game but this "shadow veil" is not in the beta from what I'm seeing.

[fierce island]

Patience

Frenzy was added yesterday

[half hare]

Frenzy looks interesting.

[uncut rampart]

I think it now/should rank something like:

• Warrior/Valor -- premier SS user, gets no SS malus and also has Frenzy.
• Thief/Shadowmancy -- secondary SS user, gets a malus but has a ward->avidity tie-in.
• Deity -- third best, highest base stats and easily accessible damage multiplier.
• Beo(H) -- can use SS, but increasingly has other better options.
• Heretic -- can use SS, if they contort themselves sufficiently.
• GS(A) -- can use SS. Bottom text.

[half hare]

I'm glad almost every class is getting new identity patches.

[fierce island]

Realmshift changes + Shadow Veil feel like finishing up the RS identity patch, since Avidity had previously almost no skill/ability interaction.

[uncut rampart]

(not sure who is actual last on this list. Heretic doesn't get warrior gear unlike GSA, but GSA has much worse base stats and no stat multiplier. Both should seriously consider doing something other than SS/CS 😅 )

[serene bluff]

It makes Gilga Lite feel less Gilga lite and more Realmlike imo

[valid raven]

Is the ward consumption on rs also 25% per turn?

[fierce island]

It's not in the game yet

[valid raven]

Oh lol

[half hare]

So even if you had 5k ward or 400k ward, it's based on percentage?

[fierce island]

It's not in the game yet

[half hare]

I was talking about frenzy.

[valid raven]

Next class getting a new button gotta be beo 🤞

[serene bluff]

Self Destruct button inc

[fierce island]

I wonder if it actually does need a client update or if Odie just hasn't pushed the server update yet

Usually it's pretty quick between a #patch-notes post and the patch entering beta 🤔

[neon raptor]

spend 1 turn to pet your follower. Increases follower happiness.

[valid raven]

Next turn pet does 5x dmg from being happy, ez

[toxic wind]

Frenzy a good void filler for ss3 raid nerfs it seems like from testing. Curious to see shadowveil when it gets into beta. Could solve the raid nerf concerns. Defer to Gilga mains on that sentiment though

[compact rover]

not gonna lie if we could have a Follower bar, kinda like Apex or Flasks, to measure our Follower's will to act and have special effect tied to Bestial Bond I would be over-mega-hyped

Imagine, you use the "Pet" ability and it gives Temper

[fierce island]

Shadowveil is live

(well, beta)

[brittle viper]

-20% ward per Turn
+50% Att
Apparently

[fierce island]

-20% current ward

And can only be activated below 50% HP

[hallow dune]

i activated after turn 3

[fierce island]

Oh

[brittle viper]

Eh? I can activate it with full hp(almost)

[brittle viper]

Uhhh, well, that's better

[hallow dune]

and ward slows down after like 2 turns to basically stop at halfway

[fierce island]

Sorry Quad Edge + 2x Double Edge took three turns and I assumed that was it

[hallow dune]

Its a good chunk of damage

[brittle viper]

More dodge and more avidity

[fierce island]

So it makes Realmshifter... wardline

Ok

[brittle viper]

[fierce island]

I can't call it purpleline because that's Deity

[hallow dune]

Its honestly pretty neat coming from outside of RS

[brittle viper]

Now the best amity for deep endless is 5% ward regen

[zealous coral]

Honestly just ship

[brittle viper]

Nice, now it's going to be nerfed, thanks

[brittle viper]

Ohhhh why not mee

I need that

[hallow dune]

Endless about to belong to RS again

[fierce island]

Well, uh, I cropped it Jaoks

[brittle viper]

Jajaja

[hallow dune]

So how does this work with RS in towers? great for everything else but thats a big question mark there

[fierce island]

I believe it does not

Unless you just want to use Bastion for 3 turns

[hallow dune]

Thats what I mean. Kinda useless in towers unless its super high ang and you take a long time

[brittle viper]

It's useful for, uh, Dorado

[hallow dune]

Not in towers haha, unless you take more than two tunrs to kill everything then usually everythings dead anyway

[brittle viper]

It will be a great addition in endless, I can't think about anything else

[hallow dune]

Hordes

Raids lol

[fierce island]

Yeah it's great in dungeons and raids

[hallow dune]

everything but towers haha

[granite lily]

The existence of dog petting alone clearly marks HoA as the better game

[brittle viper]

Umm, that's a great point

[fierce island]

I guess my one concern is that it's significantly more useful on Dorado than Base or Corvus because only Dorado has ward regen

[brittle viper]

Yes

[fierce island]

And I mean, most of us almost exclusively use Dorado at this point, so that's both a good and bad thing 😅

[hallow dune]

Well a lot of anguish gear will have ward regen passives as well dont forget

[fierce island]

True

[brittle viper]

It increases ward regen, it doesn't give ward regen

Iirc

[fierce island]

Oh right

[hallow dune]

so ward regen amity everywhere

lol

[brittle viper]

The best skill for Rs is delay Strike III imo

[fierce island]

I'm not complaining about Shadowveil, and I don't have a better idea for it, but consuming ward just makes it awkward on 2/3 forms of RS

[brittle viper]

Oracle everywhere

[fierce island]

Given that those other two forms use High Tenacity to stay at 1hp when they can, and not having ward makes 1hp not a good way to stay alive

but maybe we can make something work

[brittle viper]

Well, the other option instead of ward is mana

[hallow dune]

how much more dodge are we talking as well?

[fierce island]

Yeah I'm not even ready to propose changes, it's time to play and explore

[brittle viper]

The skill is great, it doesn't have anything bad(except this)

[fallen marsh]

By the way, those 2 forms use mystic feathers. Does the "increase dodge chance" apply to the highest dodge chance available, or only the dext dodge chance ? I doubt we know it yet, but i'd be idiot not to ask

[brittle viper]

Dodge

[serene bluff]

Pretty sure it's just Dex Dodge

[brittle viper]

Dodge is not exactly dex

Dex difference determinates dodge chance

Unless you have mystic feather

[serene bluff]

Dex plays into Dodge it's just not a 1:1 directly yeah

[granite lily]

It increased my 0 ward regen last time I tested it (last week)

[fierce island]

@toxic wind the current guess for Shadowveil is -20% of current ward per turn, +50% damage

[toxic wind]

Got it. And avidity on that too it looks like

And dodge

[fierce island]

How much ward we lose and damage we gain are the easy things, I have absolutely no idea what the avidity and dodge chances are lol

[toxic wind]

Yeah lol id love to know

[fierce island]

[toxic wind]

Its way too hard to test for that stuff. Please no player discovery 🙏

[granite knot]

Odie is cooking

[toxic wind]

100% agree with this

Just makes corvus worse which is ironic

[fierce island]

That's why I petitioned for a new Gilga skill that crits and regens ward

[toxic wind]

If the dodge doesn't impact MF then it's also even moreso better for dorado

Since dex dodge roll and MF dont combine

[fierce island]

Redlining and losing all your ward also don't combine that well

[toxic wind]

Yup

[fierce island]

But with it being % current ward ward I think it's combatable

[toxic wind]

Love the idea but in practice its just not good for a class that needs to live a long time to get crit chaining up (corvus)

[fierce island]

Oh yeah it doesn't work for Corvus at all

[toxic wind]

% current ward is legit yeah definitely helps

[fierce island]

I think it's great by default on Dorado and can be made to work on Base

[toxic wind]

If you have a huge ward pool you could probably level it out much better / have safer levels of ward

Agreed

[neon raptor]

right. thief never gets anything. but if gilga gets it you can "steal" it

[toxic wind]

Thats how we get thief things

[neon raptor]

i have ward of light at home for you

[distant loom]

Disregard Dorado, Embrace Vanilla

[fierce island]

I said "most" basically because of you

[distant loom]

Hahahaha

[toxic wind]

Imagine recharge with MF 💀

[distant loom]

It’s fine I’m usually cursed, have extra damage malus & “redline” with 85% ward so it actually all works out 🫡

[gusty basalt]

I think the shadow stance is sweet! Very excited for it and it is a nice surprise .

But I do worry that having one more thing to balance on the class is a challenge. I cant wait to test it when apple gets the update

[brittle viper]

Well, I like that you don't need to use it, bur if you want more dmg(and other things) you need to be risky

[serene bluff]

If it gives more damage it becomes a highly recommended to use to advance

[fierce island]

I disagree, given Gait of Gunnr is already recommended not to use it in a few circumstances

[zealous coral]

True, especially in ang2.0

Gunnr just destroys me

[fierce island]

Yeah there will be a lot of very real risk vs reward with Shadowveil, it's cool

[serene bluff]

Fair Snotr suffers similar

Not as bad of course

[distant loom]

Honestly I can’t wait to play around with it becoming even more risky

[errant girder]

Petition to give gilga a "cure statuses" button. We've been dealing with status oppression for too long. Now it's the time to rise against!

😆

[serene bluff]

Cure Statuses - Removes all Status (good and bad), Ward to 0 and Sets Hp to 1

[errant girder]

That's just letting the enemy kill you anyway

[serene bluff]

Well death also cures status effects

[errant girder]

🤣

[echo night]

Don't give any excuses to buff beoh 😔

[errant girder]

At this point if they buffed beoh I wouldn't be surprised anyways

The bias behind that class is immeasurable

[serene bluff]

Talk to a summoner

[errant girder]

What about it?

Did they get some hidden buff or something

[serene bluff]

No talking about bias

Only probably in the other direction you were 😄

Some People would throw a party if summoner got deleted as an option

[errant girder]

Honestly I think summoner, well specifically the late game summoner options, could use a buff

They seem really good early t10 but become increasingly stagnant the further you progress

although I'm not the authority on summoner tbh, I haven't even played the class this is just what I've seen from others using it

[brittle viper]

Shadow veil it's amazing
Realmshift is amazing
Delay Strike III is amazing

Thanks odie

[gusty basalt]

This ^

[tribal pond]

ship it

[valid raven]

Anyone tested beoA raiding in ang2.0? Curious how the numbers are looking for the big raiding pets

[modern dragon]

Heard it was buggy so I don't think we have a lot of info about that yet

[upper meadow]

They didnt fixed the hp bug for raid yet

[junior matrix]

Is there a bug report for whatever is being referenced here?

[torn trench]

So with some light experience under my belt with Shadowveil, definitely more testing to do and different areas to test in...

1. I have the concerns this can grow the reliance on Dorado for not only the innate safety and other selling points of the class but the increased Avidity value you have on Dorado and the passive ward regen the class offers. Avidity being the much larger of the 2 issues.

I dont have an ideal solution to this. I do think current Avidity values are hard to attain on Base and Corvus though. 15% is 30 Bristles f.e. which is the only appealing Avidity source and thats way too much crit normally aswell as most gear sets barely touching 30 slots let alone how that nukes build variety. It could be considered upping atleast base or both to prevent Dorado from hogging the spotlight again.

2. Double down on RSs weakness with no safety measures or control. For an example, if you pop this in a raid when you are already redlining you start draining you ward which is effectively your HP and as a result it doesnt take too long before you essentially have no means of survival. As much as I like trading survivability and the risk-reward I dislike the lack of control. Maybe allowing Shadowveil to be toggled back off would allow for better control.

Example 1: You pop Veil and luck out on Avidity chain and when at 50k ward you toggle back off so if you get hit you wont instantly lose.

Example 2: You pop Veil and get unlucky with the enemy attacking after one or 2 turns dropping your ward low, you instead cancel your Veil and focus on restoring ward.

I think this could also be a fun way to thematically and mechanically differentiate Frenzy and Veil as Frenzy is more like an uncontrollable rage(warrior) while Veil is thematic like shifting realms tactically to your advantage. Rage also providing RNG to a class that has low amounts of it while Veil gives a bit more control to a class with lots of uncontrollable RNG factors.

[upper meadow]

This is from hoa beta, do orna have same issue？

[junior matrix]

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1369693286994018396 please

[gusty basalt]

Very well said! I am on apple, but the passive seems cool and would nest well if it could be toggled with the recent delay strikes/realm shift skill buffs.

Definitely worth noting like you said you will be reading the screen more. But with new anguish rewards. I am excited for that option

Especially with some of the anguish modifiers to armor of ward recovery

[junior matrix]

imo, these skills can only be strong with the tradeoff of survivability + control.

Having them me micromanagable is just an unwarranted damage buff and I’d need to nerf them significantly

[fierce island]

I don't necessarily agree with him on point #2, since it is such a major boost, but for point #1 it being most usable on Dorado in a world where Dorado already was the most usable form of Realmshifter is a bit unfortunate.

Still though: awesome ability and I like it!

Dorado has ward regen to offset the ward cost, while base RS and Corvus have a much harder time utilizing the ability. (hence my earlier suggestion of giving "Gilga" a weak crit skill that regened ward)

[junior matrix]

Cool, I’ll just take it off Dorito

[torn trench]

I want to test more but I would certainly agree that itd likely be too much of an unwarranted power gain when togglable but was going to propose maybe adding tighter restrictions to activation or heavier ward drain for the period could be usable.

This said depending on how long it lasts this wont be as much of an issue and seems like its lasting longer then I initially noticed. Had more worries of it running out so losing dodge rate and such then getting slapped right after.

[gusty basalt]

So at 0 ward the passive is lost?

[loud yew]

I assume Veil is not meant to stay when you swap classes? Cause currently shadowveil BeoH goes kinda wild

[gusty basalt]

Interesting to see it is hybrid

[torn trench]

When ward drains yeah, and as such you can get good hits in but still recover ward whilst under the effects of Veil. I thought it lasted on a duration for whatever reason and was worried Veil would just drain your ward and leave you open to getting one shot too often, thinking this is less of an issue then initially assumed though.

So my #2 concern is way lower but #1 remains the same, although I would find it nice if these 2 abilites could feel a bitt different, unsure how to achieve that rn

[gusty basalt]

Sweet! I do agree that dorado is a insta lock with this skill

[upper meadow]

#1369694923137486939 message Someone aready report before me, please check with the link

[fierce island]

The skill could ship right now and I'd be happy (except for the little issue I posted in #orn-discussion )

Might as well post it here too

Boosting Avidity is one thing... boosting it this much might be a bit much lol

[tribal pond]

Ship it 🗣️

[torn trench]

I will echo this, having this exact same feeling where you want to recover ward but unable to do anything meaningful to recover it, no ability to crit to maintain a corvus chain f.e. either.

Could instead be a Dorado skill? Maybe an Evasive Stikes rework/Evasive Strikes 2? Evasive Strikes now crits and Evasive Strikes 2 could be on Dorado and has the added effect of restoring ward aswell?

[tribal pond]

Signet would be so impressed by the turn economy

[distant loom]

Looks like Avidity is working great 🫡

[torn trench]

Lore accurate RS tbh

[final nymph]

Oh god

[serene bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/forrest-gump-run-running-bubba-gif-7534435

RS be like

And on that day for no particular reason we all hoc to rs

[loud yew]

I see nothing wrong with 11 turns in a row, SHIP IT

[uncut rampart]

Hey leave some passage of time for the rest of us

[junior matrix]

#1370416842065313852 message

(Yes, Veil proc rate will be fixed)

[loud yew]

Where's the option for Give Beo one of those third buttons □ ||/s||

[serene bluff]

Everyone wants a third button

https://tenor.com/view/oprah-you-and-you-all-of-you-gif-16547410925962805989

[gusty basalt]

Why did crit changes ect get pulled off the menu?

[serene bluff]

I'd be ok with Deitie's button coming after the Ang 2.0 patch

[gusty basalt]

I thought that all players didn’t like multiplitive stacking

[upper meadow]

Remember go live before "well test"

If another nerf & balance next time gonna blar blar blar again

[serene bluff]

Pretty sure that went to additive didn't it?

[uncut rampart]

the stated reason was "system shock is bad".
even if the changes need to happen, they should come out over a longer period of time rather than all at once

[uncut rampart]

was reverted

[serene bluff]

ah

[torn trench]

lol idk that was taken back off the table

[serene bluff]

So what is the nerf that Beo's are saying hit towerfall?

Was that different from the crit?

[gusty basalt]

Hmmm

[uncut rampart]

crit was made special, yes. elemental still stacks additively (per element) not multiplicatively

[upper meadow]

Element going to additive

[serene bluff]

Got you, so a 50/50

[gusty basalt]

As long as it doesnt take years I gess that is ok?

[torn trench]

this poll may be best suited with a semi-formal Patch Write Up so people know what they are saying yes or no to

[upper meadow]

My towerfall damage from 30m to 8 m

[neon raptor]

I don’t read terms and conditions nerd

[gusty basalt]

Seems like folks felt strongly in spiked that quadratic scaling was bad. Now crit gets to live on?

[gusty basalt]

Probably ok. Not many raids have 30m hp

[torn trench]

Multiplicative isnt quadratic tbf

[uncut rampart]

Really? 🤔 I didn't find any way to get it to diminish by that much.

[torn trench]

Crit was the lowest offender of every issue

[upper meadow]

I show the video here

[fierce island]

There is one of those in-game

But if we could get the full changelog posted in Discord it'd be helpful. I don't want to type it out 😆

[neon raptor]

-player discovery. + dorado

[final nymph]

Yo. Please test this shadowveil a bit. That was unexpected

[loud yew]

[final nymph]

I just saw the poll. lol

[tribal pond]

TIL it's called "change-log" and not "channel-log"

[torn trench]

Believe it may even be missing these new things just tagged on today lol

[tribal pond]

my dyslexia has been messing with me for years

[final nymph]

I do have 2 HoCs though. So if everything blows up, I’m ready!

[neon raptor]

See you all on grand summoner on launch day!

[gusty basalt]

Sure, but the only multiplicative damage multiplier is crit, because?

[neon raptor]

Suggest: give GS a fancy middle button that kills a random summon for no benefit.

[uncut rampart]

technically an improvement to AGG endless setup

[neon raptor]

Gotta start small to not shock the GS players

[torn trench]

I dont disagree, I am all in favor of massive system shock but NF wording was to fix the most problematic things the soonest and then the lower level issues will be addressed later, as such crit being the lowest offender in this crowd means itd go last ig

[neon raptor]

I think the crit nerf was originally, prom hands dominate all crit builds, not necessarily a nerf to bring it parity to something else

[torn trench]

and tbf Crit was overstated with things like USs but now the ele boosts are additive on that aswell so its more like a RSs Daggers Sortie buff lol

[neon raptor]

Crit multi sources are rare anyways

[torn trench]

Well if this is so then itd come with the Aug ReworkTM

More I consider it I actually wonder with Ele going to Additive but Crit staying Multi if I may actually use regular crit skills for the first time in years

Time to test idk crit was staying multi

[junior matrix]

Everything in beta

[gusty basalt]

Thanks for the explanation

[upper meadow]

Beta vs Live

Additive really make tank build pointless now, stasis build just 1m damage less compare to tank build tf.

[torn trench]

3.17 Patch Notes

The Circle of Anguish 2.0: Paths of Anguish

• Your Anguish Level can now be separated per content type
• Each Anguish Level introduces new challenges and rewards
• In Paths of Anguish, Anguish levels now scale monster HP rather than Dex
• Ornate drops now additionally be Anguished, making them stronger when used in
  Anguish content
• Battle Dungeon Anguish levels are now persistent for the whole run
• Tower of Olympia Anguish levels are now persistent for the whole run
• Monument Anguish levels are now persistent for the whole run
• Introduced a limit of 10 simultaneously mining Refineries
• Ranger Specialization: Added the "Eagle Eyes" passive, reducing miss chance by 30%

Addressing the Spiked Shield balance concerns

• Spiked Shield/Chained Shield rework
• Balanced damage, removing the lategame exponential growth with ascension
• The Attack stat will now be best for scaling damage alongside large Ward pools - Spiked Shield III now has the most penetration (vs Spiked Shield I/II)
• Increased the effectiveness when used by the later Valor classline members
• Spiked Shield damage is now capped in PvP, similar to other endgame skills
• Steady Hands of Selene: reduced Hybrid bonus and added negative follower action rate

Improving Heretic and Realmshifter lategame identity

• Heretic's Manaflasks: replaced Banishment Flask with Aligned Sigilflask
• Heretic's Efficacious passive will now boost elemental weakness damage
• Heretic Corvus: Replaced Flasks of Corvus with Efficacious II
• Reworked the Realmshift skills
• Celestial Arrow: removed Holy element, increased Starstruck rate to 100%
• The Delay Strike skills can now crit and have increased chance to alter an opponent's
  turn
• The Shadowed Nyx skills now use either magic or attack and ignore elemental
  immunities or weaknesses
• Realm Strikes II: increased minimum damage

General Balance Adjustments

• Stasis is now a 10% chance to act instead of 0%
• Reduced the stat scaling that Towers of Olympia monsters receive per floor
• Deity Ara: The maximum in-battle stat boost of the "Apex (Ara)" passive has been decreased from +120% to +100%
• Effects that boost the damage of specified elements (ie: Fire Damage: +5%) will now stack additively instead of multiplicatively
• Reduced the Settlement defending bonus of the Warden specialization
• Reduced the bonus damage that Ultima received while exploiting elemental weaknesses
• Strikes of Ursa now takes one less turn
• Titanguard Ursa: increased dexterity

Fixed

• Better clarified the "Assassin" effect on items and passives in-game
• Improved performance of Tower and Memory Hunt puzzles on iOS
• Fixed some issues with chat connectivity

Just Added

• The Valor Class Ability "Frenzy" now improves all of the following: Attack, Collateral Damage Rate, Ward-to-damage Spells
• New Shadowmancy Class Ability: Shadowveil. It increased Attack, Dodge Rate, and Avidity rate until Ward is depleted

.
atleast that should be everything listed in game with the added frenzy veil thats not on that

[hybrid sluice]

I'd still like to see this in 2.0. The rewards can be minor and still be unique draws to the system, atm it still feels mostly like a farming method

[brittle viper]

Shadowveil was nerfed???

[distant loom]

Odie said he was going to sort out the avidity proc rate

[fierce island]

#1369690605835387040 message

This is what happened in 30% avidity gear with Shadowveil active 😆

[brittle viper]

All I see is that it needs more avidity

[brittle viper]

[final nymph]

Hey man. Thanks. Good to see them all in one post

[loud yew]

SS3 still broken on BeoH, plz nerf /s

[brittle viper]

Frenzy and shadowveil jajaja

[torn trench]

3.17 Patch Notes
#1369690605835387040 message

3.17 Ship/Dont ship Poll
#1370416842065313852 message

[gusty basalt]

Wow that loss of ward

[loud yew]

I'm using SS3 with Frenzy + Shadow veil which I'm like 99% sure is not supposed to be possible on BeoH 😅

[gusty basalt]

Just a crazy clip!

[noble finch]

Who gets shadowviel

[zealous coral]

Arcanic and up

[loud yew]

RS

[gusty basalt]

How do you master forge anguished weapons?

[loud yew]

same as regular

[gusty basalt]

Hmmm I will put a bug report together later if I cant figure it out

[elfin falcon]

Odie i see you having fun with giving classes more love. I appreciate it!

I love the two ideas so far. I wonder what deity gets... :O

[hybrid sluice]

A big fat nerf

[elfin falcon]

I dont think nerfing is a good option.
I see the changes to gilga and realm, and i think buffing other classes is a good choice! And giving them more fun mechanics.

[hybrid sluice]

That's a fine sentiment in many situations, but sometimes nerfs are still necessary

I was mostly memeing though, who knows what the balance looks like after this patch

[elfin falcon]

indeed! I remember prom on launch...

[elfin falcon]

i do think deity is pretty dominant, but i also think that people overplay it.

[alpine seal]

Maybe like a 1/4

Including people who like to chase the meta, reasonable xd

[elfin falcon]

i like having not to deal with DoTs, but also, i miss my gilga ward reg, it was really fun

[slim zephyr]

long live turn economics

[tribal pond]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

Signet is back!

[elfin falcon]

Signet?

[tribal pond]

Someone said no 😦

Him and Knight made the absolute goat of an early orna RS guide, guy was a beast back in my day

[loud yew]

If deity gets another new function before Beo Imma be just slightly annoyed 🤏

[tribal pond]

Signet also probably one of the big reasons we have Avidity in today's version of RS

[neat glacier]

Signet the goaaat

[gusty basalt]

Hi lives!

[slim zephyr]

not really, just saying hi 🙂

someone actually pinged me because burton used the term turn economy lololol

[tribal pond]

Based, I hope you're doing well!

[hushed berry]

This, but Summoner.
Everyone's getting their Second Rework™️ before we get our first smh

[drowsy wren]

This. Deity already had a rework.

[full cape]

Would love a dedicated menu for apex skills instead of usual spell slots tho

[rotund wharf]

Nah leave it so we can pick which ones we want to bring, we got enough spell slots

[serene bluff]

I don't think Dursa wants to be reminded of all the useless skills we got from Apex

[uncut rampart]

Fwiw, beo likely needs Bonds refinement more than a whole new function.

Fiddling with some numbers there can change gameplay and follower selection in a big way.

[serene bluff]

I would love to see more diversity in the Bonds for sure

[compact rover]

Yeah, before having a second rework, maybe finish the half-one we got

[loud yew]

I strongly agree that BBs need some love, but I think I would be slightly disappointed if all that ends up changing is some numbers, I'm not necessarily looking for a buff or nerf, just some sort of new mechanic/ability like all the other classes are getting

[zenith matrix]

beo needs more than just a bestial bond refinement, theres 0 unique thing about its gameplay other than stronger followers and beoa's hit 2x at a 30% chance

numbers, stats alone wont make it unique

[fierce island]

I would argue there's something very unique about base Beo and BeoA's gameplay lol

BeoH is the outlier

[serene bluff]

I still chuckle at BeoH Temu 2nd Chance

[zenith matrix]

i dont take as damage using my follower is unique, but thats just me

[fierce island]

No other class is able to do it

At least effectively

[valid raven]

More effective than beomonner still

Jk

[loud yew]

As someone who plays BeoH 99% of the time (besides some recent silly towerfall things) I often forget that Beo =/= BeoH...
It's probably best to assume whenever I mention "Beo" I really mean/am talking in the context of BeoH 😅

[uncut rampart]

Why would bonds be limited to that? We've already seen bonds that add unique follower skills, and stats that are hard to get elsewhere (e.g. tower shard%).

Bond refinement doesn't mean add +10 attack and call it a day 😅

[zenith matrix]

i wasnt saying that its limited to that, i was responding to

Fiddling with some numbers there can change gameplay and follower selection in a big way.

[loud yew]

Instead of adding skills (basically nerfing the followers, as seen with the current ones) lets add some BBs/just a way in general to remove skills and make more followers useful

[quartz girder]

move some bonds to level 0, let more classes can access it

[latent karma]

(Not beo) since a lot of classes are getting 'middle button' skills, it would be cool if pets could offer you a variety of 'middle button.' Wouldnt be those weird circumstances where the pet is nerfed but could add cool utility

[compact rover]

Swap between 2 pets

[latent karma]

honestly pokemon trainer button could be cool

[quartz girder]

it's the good time to do it

[valid raven]

We get an apex flasks ferocity bar that lets us choose our pets next act everytime it's full

[compact rover]

Not very useful to "choose" since we can already help our follower taking the right action at the right time, thanks to Calls and hidden mecanics

However Ferocity bar make me think that the pet will Double Act, use an enhanced version of an Ability or launch an Ultimate Attack, kinda like the mood of Apex

[formal sparrow]

Pet could get the same crit % of the player, and remove the crit bond...

if it must be a new button, the new button could allow you to switch with your follower, and you control the follower and the player is the AI, but I guess that would be more difficult to do than a simple stat increase button

and you can press again to switch back

[granite lily]

I think it is very funny that this boils down to "there's 0 unique things about Beo except for the unique thing"

[formal sparrow]

idk if hybrid is unique if amity+ selehands can do it or BB1… there is no avidity or CD amity nor spec.

As for follower everyone can use it and there is a spec just to boost it...

So I kinda agree with those not being unique to the beo class if everyone can have it

[alpine night]

Why stop there? Make it so if you summon/use a follower you have at a high level in traveler's guild, you have a higher chance of choosing its actions 😏

I'm sure I'm missing something balance wise with even occasional choose actions but it sounds cool to a non-beo xD

[brittle viper]

Emmm, avidity spec would be something like Blade of Finesse

[zenith matrix]

30% extra act rate on beoA is unique, and i can agree with that
that's as far as im going to agree with though

[valid raven]

Pretty sure other classes can cosplay as beo just as much if not better than Odin cosplaying gs as a beo

[zenith matrix]

HM -> augment
bb -> bb1 from amity, which is the most useful bb out of the other bb levels (bb2 and bb3 is.. ask other beos if you wanna argue about this)
extra follower act rate -> amity/gear/consumables/augments

[valid raven]

As funny as it would be to have guaranteed choice in that case, it would also become very annoying to have to select your follower's skill every time it needs to act

[desert scaffold]

a reverse of hydrus shenanigans, let them deal with the pet for 2 turns without a player to target

[fluid jungle]

is that real? that's gotta be fake(r)

[fierce island]

Actually though, an interesting Beo ability for that could be like "Rally" or something and just have the pet act twice on a cooldown

[desert scaffold]

oh you flatterer

[rotund wharf]

Isn’t that just beoA?

[alpine night]

go full druid mode - you can shapeshift into your pet and use its abilities as you please, also massive health bump whenever changing shapes, ward is disabled 😈

[desert scaffold]

idk if that even counts as a druid, considering orna source lore

[hushed berry]

Interesting that you mention Cooldowns. Orna doesn't have them.
But Odie just introduced skills that can only be used "turn 2 on" - this is essentially "starts on cooldown"

Which is to say, we're pretty close to having actual cooldowns. Which adds an entire new layer of depth to skill variety

[rotund wharf]

That’s so gursa doesn’t rip everyones face off in bof t1 😂

[fierce island]

And Realmshifter for the same reason

[rotund wharf]

T2 sorry

[fierce island]

It does have another form of pseudo-cooldown with Ophion Stance

[desert scaffold]

is that a house rule in finesse, or always rule?

[fierce island]

The ability only occurs when the status is added to your character, a double pet act ability could act the same way. Just have it fade after X turns

[fierce island]

The Turn 3 onward for Frenzy and Shadowveil is always

[formal sparrow]

only works in horde?

[fierce island]

Fwiw Bestial Bond 2 and 3 are fully beo exclusive

[desert scaffold]

missing a question mark at the end of this sentence #bugs

[fierce island]

Oh, there's Odie's silent change to Frenzy and Shadowveil

[brittle viper]

Ohhhhh no

[formal sparrow]

bb2 and bb3 are just stats or more pet bloat

compared to avidity/CD and other passive uniques

[brittle viper]

Is a huge downside, but you get cool effects

[desert scaffold]

neatly sidesteps issues w/ pvp

[fierce island]

I'm concerned now that pressing Shadowveil is essentially committing suicide.

Slowly

[rustic escarp]

Uh

Full on turning off regen makes it unusable for so much content, especially if shadow veil is the same

[fierce island]

It is

[rustic escarp]

You either don’t redline (which is a huge stat boost, might as well not use shadowveil), or you redline and pray you finish the fight quickly

[fierce island]

Odie, if shadowvveil is going to function like this, can it please deplete based on max ward rather than current ward?

Depleting based on current ward means it can't turn off until you get hit (essentially)

[brittle viper]

Endless with 1 HP and 0 ward is possible (I'm allucinating)

[formal sparrow]

what if shadow veil just changed your redline into wardline allowing RS recharge to heal to 100% but keeping the stats?

[fierce island]

Nevermind, Shadowveil can just actually never turn off

It rounds down

I'm at 3 ward, and it won't drain my ward any farther

[desert scaffold]

genius

[rustic escarp]

You’re still at 4hp though 😅

[fierce island]

Working this way isn't exactly ideal but it can be worked around if you give up your redline and regen your HP

That's probably not good except for high AL players with big HP pools, and certainly isn't possible in Anguish, but we can do it

[desert scaffold]

i dont like how frenzy zeros out Bastille

[rustic escarp]

Why would I give up the huge stat boost from redline though? Unless shadowveil triples your damage

[fierce island]

Boosts damage by 50%

[formal sparrow]

I think it would be cooler if shadow veil just switched redline into wardline and allowed you to keep the same boosts

[rustic escarp]

Wouldn’t you rather have +100% stats for pretty much any content with fights longs enough for that to matter though?

While also having MF active if not on dorado

[fierce island]

Yes, probably. You can use it to nuke a raid more quickly? You're just put on a time limit

[gusty basalt]

I think it is a cool passive. But like others noted. Shadowveil does add another mechanic in the game for theif classes to manage

[rustic escarp]

I don’t know, I might not be seeing something here but it just looks like another button I’ll have to try to avoid misclicking now

Wish Apple would get its shit together and let me beta test

[gusty basalt]

I would love to see some way to decrease the amount of mechanics that your gear screen would need to manage. While still trading off something for a gain in dps

[fierce island]

To me this is an upside rather than a downside

[gusty basalt]

Please say more knight

[desert scaffold]

what if the shadowveil is just a buff w/ a min turn duration and drains your wars completely

[gusty basalt]

I am very interested in what you think on the passive

[rustic escarp]

I don’t mind the new mechanic, I even think the concept is cool. But the new implementation seems overkill on the whole ward regen scenario. It needed to be reduced, but straight up nuking it almost kills the ability on release

[fierce island]

So Shadowveil really is just an optional ability, you don't have to use it necessarily. Without turning it on RS plays as normal

You can choose to use it and build/plan around it, and it's something that can see play in classic wardless style builds that have gone out of fashion.

I think it probably serves no purpose at all in Anguish 2.0 though 😅

[formal sparrow]

just out of curiosity why is RS getting shadowveil and not other any other classes?

[fierce island]

The same reason Gilga has Frenzy

And Heretic has Flasks

[fluid jungle]

would shadow veil fit any other class?

[fierce island]

And Deity has Apex

[formal sparrow]

but I thought frenzy was to compensate gilga for SS nerfs

but shadowveil?

[gusty basalt]

Good shout on the wardless builds here. I didn’t even think about that! I just gotta wait for apple to do the thing and I can get my hands on it

[desert scaffold]

nyx, arcanic, some variants

[fierce island]

(Arcanic+ do have it btw)

[gusty basalt]

I would still like dorado to not be the BIS user for another realm passive

[hybrid sluice]

Shadowveil compensates RS for losing ss

[fierce island]

It's not anymore

[rustic escarp]

It’s also weird that frenzy turns off ward regen but boosts SS damage, how many of those are you able to get in currently before you’re at 0 ward?

[desert scaffold]

3

[fierce island]

Dorado was best because Dorado has ward regen

[rustic escarp]

You really don’t want dorado at 0 ward

[fierce island]

Now that's irrelevant

[formal sparrow]

and what compensates Beoh for losing SS?

also if all classes have unique what's beoh unique?

[rustic escarp]

If you’re going wardless you want a MF class

[fierce island]

Base RS is the one that can play wardless

[rustic escarp]

Does BeoH need any compensation? 😅

It’s still the best SS user

[gusty basalt]

And corvus?

[fierce island]

Is Corvus and sits in the corvus corner as usual

Where it stays until Arisen Waygates

[formal sparrow]

yes why not? 🙂

[fierce island]

High Tenacity + Mystic feather are on Corvus too though so theoretically wardless should be possible

[hybrid sluice]

Its base stats and busted performance in pvp

[loud yew]

BeoH doesn't necessarily need "compensation" but it needs something that makes it unique and not just a wall of stats

[formal sparrow]

but that does not feel truly unique

[hybrid sluice]

That's the compensation

[formal sparrow]

we just using SS because it does not miss

[rustic escarp]

Because it’s still able to use SS. If you check the SS thread you can see a lot of the tests people ran. It’s also getting a new spec to counter its low af dexterity

So it can also run V4 now if you want to and have +30% accuracy

[formal sparrow]

but that's another spec that everyone can also have

[rustic escarp]

No one benefits as much from it as BeoH though

Everyone can also run tamer, but no one besides Beo does

[formal sparrow]

it's like every beoh thing is to use other classes stuff or specs and nothing of it's own and no one else uses beoh stuff either

[hybrid sluice]

Yeah

[desert scaffold]

you say that but verse4

[hybrid sluice]

That's one of the farthest out of scope things for this patch

[desert scaffold]

is like. great, for RS

[formal sparrow]

it always is. that is why Fenrir crit bond is shit for years.

[desert scaffold]

I really dont think beoH needs anything and wondering if youre in good faith asking

or is this bait

but honestly cant tell, lol

[formal sparrow]

alright I give up

[loud yew]

You're missing the point and what we all mean when we say give BeoH something, Gilga has CD/Frenzy, RS has Avidity/Shadowveil, Heretic has Flasks/other shit I can't remember, and Deity has Apex.
BeoH has nothing unique, it has hybrid damage but that's just stats not an actual mechanic...
We don't want a buff... We want Fun new shit

(but as I've reiterated when I mention this in the past, this is the anguish beta, so I don't expect anything added this patch, all I can hope is the next one 🤞)

[hybrid sluice]

Please stand strong and brave the lack of novelty until the next beo identity patch

[fierce island]

Next patch: Beowulf and Summoner

Or next patch: Kingdom Rework 🤔

[formal sparrow]

not RS Corvus?

[uncut rampart]

Beo has bonds, and beoh has uhh... second chance at home ig

[fierce island]

We can ask to move that ahead of Beo and Summoner if you want 🙂

|| ||

[formal sparrow]

sure I am really bored of playing beo

[hybrid sluice]

Try heretic

[loud yew]

Even then there's so many intences where BeoA/Base Beo would be better off without the BB3s

[hybrid sluice]

Not everyone needs a shiny button smh, Heretics had it before it was cool

[uncut rampart]

It's kinda like how heretic has flasks, but a few aren't useful/used

Beo has bonds, and a few aren't useful/used (and arguably some are detrimental)

[hybrid sluice]

Heretics get flasks and everyone's like "haha nerds go suck a flask"

[fierce island]

Btw, I made #1375169948984414258 to focus some Shadowveil discussion

[formal sparrow]

BB2 BB3 are really boring stats and pet bloat

[hybrid sluice]

We were the cool ones all along!!

[desert scaffold]

theyd have to replace Call skills

call skills are beo exclusive basically

[fallen marsh]

"pet the pet"
No cooldown, take one turn to pet the pet, after that he's super excited, gain a million % dmg, but kill you ward and your back

[loud yew]

Besides Jord and Bryn, call skills are basically useless

Even then Jord is really only used in very niche PvP builds/sometimes in endless (though half the time not because -30% pet act can be rough), and Bryn is used in raiding/endless (and the little I've used it in party play)

[formal sparrow]

if the player could get certain skills from followers like Revive through BB2 or BB3 maybe that could be cool
(like final fantasy blue mage)

[hybrid sluice]

Giving the players skills through bestial bonds does sound cool

[zealous coral]

Welp im staying away from that then lol

[distant loom]

It’s my time! Love playing wardless!

[fallen lark]

I mean... am I wrong though kekw

[hasty solstice]

"Few" like all the bb2-bb3

[serene bluff]

Nope not at all, Maybe the Wish 2nd Chance? 😄

[errant girder]

Gilgas rework is just a boatload of nerfs but we get an accuracy passive as a participation trophy 😆

[elfin falcon]

I still think BB are the coolest mechanic in the game.
Just give beo steadfest and he would be fun

[elfin falcon]

I think the concept of beeing a pet class alone is unique enough. Thats the one thing my deity can't do.

Would love if the beo pet was more interactive, but except that i can't complain much. Fun class

[valid raven]

Btw @loud yew, from your testing. What seems to be the most viable strategy so far for beo (and celestials) for each content type in anguish? 🤔

[loud yew]

Dungeons
Still no clue what to do for BeoA (though testing has been limited for that)
BeoH really struggles with hordes, but for solo dungeons I was able to do ~ Ang40-45 pretty comfortably despite being 25-30 ALs below the recommended/shackle level (granted I had BiS full anguish gear)

[valid raven]

Getting BiS anguish gear in live will be very difficult so I'd assume it'll be worse for most people

[loud yew]

World farming
Was having a lot of success with redline BeoA in the early levels, but eventually swapped to BeoH for a verse4 one shot build, crazy good at farming this side of things

[valid raven]

Also, did you only test horde boss or normal horde as well? Iirc normal mobs also drop proofs

[loud yew]

raids
There have been so many changes I can't remember if the last time I tested it if it was the current iteration or not 😅
So kinda unsure about this category rn

[tribal pond]

may everyone get ornate tethras today, amen

[loud yew]

Towers
By far my least tested content as I got so focused on dungeons for a while, kinda leaving this one to live, but I suspect AV4 double lute to be the go to here

[loud yew]

Norms where easier than boss (probably gonna be the best way to go) but God those reg mobs are no joke 😅

[tribal pond]

Bold of you to assume I can "double lute"

[valid raven]

Actually, speaking of lute. Do you think that at some anguish level, using a single anguished lute becomes better than dual wielding celestial + another lute?

[loud yew]

With Crit still being multiplied... No

[valid raven]

Rough

Not having an afc will hurt 😔

[loud yew]

I mean technically if someone manages to get to some insane Anguish level it's possible, but I doubt it lol

[loud yew]

Honestly I'm thinking of trying out the Y Lute, as the 0 ward on AFC is kinda rough from the little I've tested

My first instinct is to try something like this
(Built on live cause no Y Lute on my beta mirror)

Anguish Modifiers being able to give "+3 ward turns" to any legs is honestly a game changer build wise 👀

[valid raven]

I'm wondering if the y lute is enough since it has like 300 att/mag stats less as compared to lute x, and 700 less compared to afc

[loud yew]

With HP scaling I find in multi battles it's hard to get a 1 shot, so I'm feeling like I'd almost prefer the trade off of extra survivability and just guarantee the 2-shot
As I've come to learn/remember... AL help with ward alloootttttt, so running C.lute + AFC at Ang20-30ish only has me at ~30k ward if that. But I'm waiting till things hit live to see how it all really plays out and see what is reasonable when it comes to Anguish gear

[eternal drum]

I like it build variety. Making us think

[valid raven]

Hmm, alright. Did you test storming tempest as well by chance?

[loud yew]

I did, I did not find it very good, though I think things have changed since so not 100% sure, but I could honestly see the lance maybe being good? 👀

[valid raven]

Lance has terrible ward no? Like Gandring level ward

[fierce island]

No it has a lot more ward than the Gandring lol

[valid raven]

16% more it seems according to yaco and 10% more according to rawr. That's still less than even the t6 trev staff or 1 hand ward weapons like cele axe or beg axe

Gandring still works since it's full aoe, I think the windtamer will struggle a lot since its got a chain skill and not full aoe

[loud yew]

The thing is you don't have to build for Crit with storming tempest, freeing you up to use gear with much better ward, for example

[valid raven]

Yeah, but in this case won't just using a lute + the storming tempest shield be better? (Though I guess you won't get the benefit of trev charms)

[neat glacier]

prob lute+shield deals more dmg

didnt do the math tho

[loud yew]

With the nerf to Selene hands using Trev charms + Solarite mortors + the possiblity of +14% 2H bonus on the legs will probably do better

[fierce island]

Given eventual anguished stats + shackling down AL stats as well

Selene Hands are devalued in Anguish (in addition to getting a nerf)

[loud yew]

I wish I didn't leave my lance in my keep when I asked for a mirror... I'd actually be able to test it

[neat glacier]

selene arms also has same hybrid bonus (well 5% less then hands) so can compensate 🤔

unless it gets removed

[zealous coral]

I feel all the ward youre trying to add is being thrown away by that 28 ward 2handed 👀

[loud yew]

But I can't test the lance with anguish gear

[loud yew]

In towers, I find anything more than 2x my HP (give it take a bit) is unless anyways, as my absorption is only ever 50% anyways

[zealous coral]

Thats a fair point ☝️

[loud yew]

Now I'm considering DFing this lance...

Ouuu, excited to see extra pet/summon stats 👀👀

[valid raven]

How's beguiled lute looking? 👀

[loud yew]

Interesting it seems the base follower stats doesn't matter? All my gear with follower stats at Ang50 give +150%

[vital path]

Do you have any with summon stats?

Wondering if it's also 3% per anguished level on those

[serene bluff]

lol yeah was about to ask

[loud yew]

Summon stats seem to be the same

[serene bluff]

Is it all gear getting that boost?

[vital path]

I see, thanks 🫡

[valid raven]

I'd assume all gear that has at least some follower/summon stats

Good news for gsh potentially? 👀

[serene bluff]

So yeah 3% per level

[loud yew]

That means Selene legs c.lute is no BiS at ang 20 and up

For max follower stats

[valid raven]

New bis probably martyr baton

[fierce island]

Please re-vote, given the newest patch, if it changes your votes:
#1370416842065313852 message

[loud yew]

Something seems a little off tho on the stat screen, this BeoA/Tamer build should give a total of +1000% follower stats yet is less than it is on live with only +345% follower stats

[zealous coral]

You guys just got placebo'd 🫵

[junior matrix]

Follower stats currently don’t take anguish gear into effect, if that answers this

[loud yew]

Ahhhh that makes sense

[zealous coral]

Jeez 30k cactus

💀

[tribal pond]

BeoA back in the action baby

[valid raven]

Btw, does this also affect weapons with pet stats adorns?

[loud yew]

I actually just had the same thought and tested it 😅

It does not

[valid raven]

Sadge, no 150 pet stats questing weapons

But this means Fey gerd gear is probably back in meta

[meager sand]

Beta polls being available for none-beta like me sounds bad in terms of getting votes of people who wants new content and have no clue of the actual balance

[rustic escarp]

🚢

Not enough people are actually beta testing, so might as well ship it and adjust after the dust settles

[fierce island]

If this ends up being the primary reason people don't want Anguish 2.0 to ship yet: It's something that's very easy for Odie to boost after people experience (and try to break) the content

Better to ship too slow and need to be buffed than the opposite

[loud yew]

I was just about to say the same thing!
The price of mats and stuff is way to hard to test like this, as no one really wants to grind proofs for mats and stuff in the beta client, we are much better off having it on live for at least a bit to determine the average proofs/min people are able to reasonably get

I am curious though on how it "feels like too much of grind" when it comes to Ang gear and levels? With everything being tweaked for the beta no one really knows what the grind is gonna be like??

[fierce island]

Especially because of how few names on that voting list have mentioned doing any testing

[latent karma]

Yeah I think a lot of these 'economic' factors are hard to judge before having the live economy.

[fierce island]

A lot more votes than active testers 🤔

[loud yew]

How do I upvote a message x10 LOL

[junior matrix]

What changes need to be made to the rewards specifically?

[fierce island]

The proof acquisition rate may be too slow compared to shop prices. Maybe ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rustic escarp]

Also curious why we’re voting on refineries when we’ve already polled that and got a feel for how the community feels

[latent karma]

This mainly (I voted to ship) I think these are easy to alter when comes to live, I assumed the costs would change during live version.

[fierce island]

I assume Odie is very capable of tweaking costs after it goes live

[brittle viper]

Some people that are voting don't even tested the new changes

[latent karma]

Even content difficulty is a fairly easy slider to adjust live, I think all the core systems seem strong.

[tribal pond]

https://tenor.com/view/nervoso-gif-4921255577321466832

[loud yew]

My biggest concern is defiantly proof acquisition. Only being able to earn 1 proof per floor in horde mode dungeons is a massive decrease, but even then the rate is quite low as. For example I just ran a Ang15 Horde dungeon (Proof rate is 11.6% as I went full left path) and only got 2 proofs
(I know 1 dungeon is not the best example but just trying to show something in the moment)

But as I said above (#1369690605835387040 message) this is something that's just way to hard to test in the beta client and is at a point where I feel we need data from live players to really tweak this.
I will say though I do like the change of having it guaranteed 2 mats for each proof!

[brittle viper]

You have 11% chance of proof per dg floor??

[latent karma]

I think its rolled per mob but capped at 1 per floor?

[zealous coral]

Although rewards feel a bit off, im going with ship because of this ☝️
Also beta is a controlled environment. We're testing, not actually engaging with it

[junior matrix]

that's...odd. proof is rolled per mob so that doesn't seem to line up

[zealous coral]

Im getting 1 per floor max too but im gonna be honest and didnt pay that much att to it. Will test more

[loud yew]

Just did another and only earned 2 proofs again
(Ignore the fact that I was not paying attention and died to the RS 😅 )

[valid raven]

Can you please add proofs to the highlighted drops list like ornates?

[rustic escarp]

Is the 1 per floor cap intended or a bug?

Because that being removed/fixed immediately changes the entire economy

[hybrid sluice]

Anguish raids always give exactly 11 proofs from my testing in levels 1 and 2. Not sure if this has been fixed yet

1 proof from kill, 10 proofs from rewards

Also the path has been bugged since the start and doesn't give xp or anguished gear of the highest agony level, unless another path is of a higher level (I believe)

[junior matrix]

are these in https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1369693286994018396?

[zealous coral]

Also im officially lobbying for this with weapons with native collateral damage 🪧
Edit: it was a joke sirith im sowwy 🥲

[serene bluff]

Didn't seem like a bug, but has been there since Anguish raids started and took over for the 11 Felling proofs

[junior matrix]

no that's fine, they replace pfellings

the gear stuff smells buggy

[rustic escarp]

#1369693286994018396 message

The gear was reported I believe

But I thought it was exclusive to level 1

If you got gear from another path you could then progress it

[errant girder]

Found a bug I think. Every time I kill my mirror in the beta it freezes

Like it'll show the dude dying but it won't progress to the "reward" screen

However the animations of my character sliding around idly keep playing so it isn't a full crash afaik

[loud yew]

#1370141629444395028 message

[zealous coral]

Solution: make him tankier jeez 😡

[errant girder]

Lol

Why didn't I think of that

Just dont kill him and it won't freeze

🤣

[zealous coral]

My brain is good 📚

[errant girder]

Oh I hadn't seen that

Cool

[loud yew]

Thought knight already reported it but seems it was not, so I'd say still make a report if you already haven't

[junior matrix]

re: Raids - the gear will drop at the Raid's anguish level, not the current level set in the guild. this was likely the reason for low level drops

[fierce island]

I asked if it was reported and was told yes

I didn't actually check

[loud yew]

Oh found it

#1369693286994018396 message

[loud yew]

Mb, somehow missed it

[gusty basalt]

Its like that lute was going to be bis 😈

Sorry to dig up an old convo but I thought it was funny and light hearted

Perfect the joke landed

[sacred flame]

I still don't see any updates in TestFlight on iOS. Still 3.17.21. What am I doing wrong?

😩