#Heretic Identity Patch Discussion

4272 messages · Page 5 of 5 (latest)

tawdry solar
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i'm not gonna discuss about the deeper meaning of the word, English isn't not my 1st language so i just say what i think in the most simple way. Anyway, maybe it's just me but that's my opinion about heretic, not fun to play anymore

clear frost
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I wish I could come back. Should have left so that I could come back to it.

cedar skiff
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Switch to nyx for a couple mins, then you can come back

clear frost
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Bufr Nyx or nefr Hera

tight adder
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if the gameplay isn't fun for you then look for a class that is fun for you, if you want easy game mode class, then go with the current meta class even if you don't vibe with it, does this mean that i want heretic to never be the "easy game mode class"? ofc not, but I rather have a "it's fine" class that i have fun playing with, than a "op class" that bores me, the cherry on top would be if the class that i have fun with it's the one that it's op and that everyone and their siblings want to use it because it's the op class...

hearty bough
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Weakness guys just play the class for years until eventually the meta shifts in your favor

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Ez :/

tight adder
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i also want my heretic to deal 99b damage like towerfall builds :v

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oh they got nerfed now they only deal 49b damage :v

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dead class

hearty bough
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Haha

tight adder
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i dunno, i like the feel of filling the flask and be like "ok what do i want to do now" and be like emperor's groove movie picking the flask :V

hearty bough
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I’m excited

tight adder
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identity aside :v , heretic needs an oomph in power, either in spells or stats (cof cof ara getting 1.2 or 1.3x mag cof cof) but we shall see what live departs on it, probably the idea is to gather the data in a month or two and see like "hmmmmm heretic is still no used in anguish why it is thiiiiiiiis?" and we will be like "weeee no pawaaaaa"

hearty bough
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We can always just cry later if we want but for now I’m ready to smile

tight adder
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i will prepare my fake tears :v, just be AL 200 bud everything dies :v

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i'm on the "i know i'm weaker than other classes, but at least i have fun tapping on all these stuff xD"

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weird xD

urban delta
tight adder
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i actually like efficacious just giving you that "HA HA!" while using qatvanga for example xD

urban delta
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I'm quite excited haha. I know it won't be for everyone but it's a fun class on beta and soon to be live.

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I even wrote another Orna parody "summarizing" the changes 😅

clear frost
daring sand
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"will you come back with this identity patch?" - moment then y play Heretic only... 😒

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...and after the patch I will "return" on "alchemist" 🫡

jagged bane
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Will there be any final changes to the beta before the official launch? Like maybe the suggestions made here by the testers? I found many of them really interesting.

cedar skiff
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are there are that could fit inside a ~1.5 day window?

dusk osprey
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Crank Heretic's Mag stat up 50,000

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I'll also accept 50000%, if you can only do that

tight adder
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what could we find fit for a 1.5 day window tho?, idk what specific suggestions @jagged bane is talking about tho. iirc i saw mostly like

  • changing flask to scrolls (pls no... for me ofc, you already have scrolls as gear, and you want scrolls as a passive/spells... if you want something funny, then have like a "lightning" or "spirals of power" icon xD )
  • the freedom to use flask as loadouts (i don't really care, but i think everyone will just go with the same good ones if it was the case, so i think it's better current way)
  • Alignment sigil for base <- agreed
  • more flask availability (i think the current one is fair, but i can be wrong -shrug-)
  • Fey/t10 omnimancy spells (i want this, and should take less than 1.5 day window :P, although balance...)
  • Inflection on corvus (balance people balance!, corvus already has the buff duration opness with crit poise)
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the freedom to use flask having "6" as limit, probably will make every class just have like
bloodloss + Blood-ray + Inflection and then 3 of your personal preference, with Sigil for Ara as a "must have" 🤷

daring sand
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"you already have scrolls as gear, and you want scrolls as a passive/spells" - And that could be part of the identity. Passive with scrolls and equippable scrolls that could, in the future, have new spells added to them...

jagged bane
tight adder
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the part where you need to explain by saying "scroll" refering to either - or is what irks me

jagged bane
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And also the use of bloodloss with no turn loss even with bottles at 75% would leave a great opportunity for DG Farm Anguish and Tower.

tight adder
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something like this even makes more sense than "scrolls" xD

magician_magic_wizard_magical_book_wisdom_sorcerer_fantasy_medieval_spell_mage_witchcraft_rpg_wand_staff-512.png
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oh wow

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it blends with the discord background lol

daring sand
tight adder
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ah i see

daring sand
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And there would be no need to "break" the visuals too much. Elongated flasks - elongated scrolls... The same filling scale. Change the description...

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In general. At one time I voiced the idea that the identity of mages could be slots for autocasting spells, like autosummon slots for summoners. Add to this new passives and spell improvements for Ara ... As for me, such an option would look better than what we have now and would give more variability ...

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But we have what we have and it has us... 🤷🏻

urban delta
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I think the only things I really want at this point are:
-Alignment Sigil on Base
-Mage Equivalent of something like the Shadowed element strikes from t9 Nyx Celestials

But I can do without either or both. I'm pretty stoked as is

waxen furnace
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will this be a game update to deliver heretic changes? or server side live monday

jagged bane
waxen furnace
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i ask as an ios user

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i dont expect it to be live monday

west wind
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New Spells or Alignment flask on base would be my votes WHOSKIRBS

brisk salmon
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Someone will mention bulwark. That’s m2 increase. Aaru hood, heretic robe and sky shoes are our big m1 increases. All of those wreck our defenses. All this time and I just can’t see heretic hitting hard and defending well at the same time. The only use I would see for inflection is for PvE and for PvP in scenarios where the attacker didn’t load up correctly in his offensive power.

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We could “tank”….but will we? We would still need the act rate for DC, or a dynasty piece that kills defense. And for sure, we wouldn’t have firepower to hit back

thorn grove
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New omnimancy spells is what im about more excited

brisk salmon
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I would like them, but that’s not enough time. And we would have to try to balance those.

cedar skiff
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ie: we're looking for Iced Earth III, etc?

brisk salmon
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👀with crit?

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Don’t do this to me. Lmfao

thorn grove
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Please more starstruck if possible D:

west wind
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Tri-Element Spells perhaps?

thorn grove
cedar skiff
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Iced Scorced Earth?

brisk salmon
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Let’s keep it simple. Dad spoke

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He’s thinking

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😆😆

west wind
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I'm just tossing it out there hahahaha

cedar skiff
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Scorched Ice Quakestorm

west wind
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Shadowed Scorched Earth

brisk salmon
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Oh man. Omnimancy spells that can crit. That would be crazy. I didn’t mention it a lot because I honestly didn’t even think it would be considered.

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Triple element is crazy

thorn grove
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Like tier 9 celestial spells but with crit?

west wind
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It's more of a fantasy for me than anyrhing, not genuinely expecting them to work in the games context

tight adder
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Earthfire Froststorm
Infernal Icequake
Thundering Frostflame
Glacial Pyrostorm
Fire-Ice Thunderquake
Earthen Frostfire Surge
Cryo-Volcanic Thunderclash
Frostfire Earthshock
Elemental Flamefrost Thunderstrike
Frozen Earthen Pyrostorm

west wind
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Where's the dark and holy integrations?

tight adder
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we don't have them

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that's deity's work

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:v

thorn grove
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True

west wind
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Oh true enough

tight adder
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we do have arcane tho

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i think?

thorn grove
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How this spells are gonna be balanced?

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More damage than feys? Less?

tight adder
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but yeah we looking for Iced Earth III and omniblast II

thorn grove
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Crit no crit

brisk salmon
jagged bane
brisk salmon
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Oh. That’s a lot 😔

tight adder
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ok so here's my idea, for non maxed players,
we could get some tri-elementals (this makes less need of possible choices for the skill slots)
given at 225, they get a liiiiitle bit of increased M1 i think it's the value that we looking for? from iced earth II and company
that is to give continuity of dualmancy from the omnimancy class

then at higher levels like 245 maybe, we get omniblasta II/omniblast II (omniblast are from t9 celestials, so getting omni2 as base would be nice) , they are better than omniblast, crittable preferebly

we could also get some "tri-mancy" that includes arcane to the mix btw, dark/holy and Dragon does not appear constantly in our class so we should not focus in getting them IMO as part of the mix

jagged bane
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One of the biggest mistakes of the interwoven elements in my opinion was that the omnimancy spells didn't work

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Omniblasta 2 with critical hit could be a great skill for heretic PvP.

tight adder
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so based on the spreadsheet, it seems like dualmancy-II have 2.7 M1, tri-mancy or dualmancy-III (whichever is picked - personally i like the idea of tri-mancy) can get a M1 of 3, or something along those lines and it can be non-crittable even, the idea is to give a little bit of "OOMPH" to the initial heretic and giving them still the sweet flavor of several-mancy 😛

Omniblast II can keep the M1 of 3 as well and be crittable, it seems ultima has a M1 of 4 with it being 2 turns, it might bring some un-balance tho, but we can consider that omni only has the basic 4 so it has it's "balance" as well

tight adder
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so what do we think? sounds fair? broken?

jagged bane
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As I've said before, I'd love to see more omnimantes in t10, a class with interesting skills and the best design in my opinion.

urban delta
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Ice Storm 3 or Fey Ice Storm 👀 bonus if they don't suffer as much of a reduction against resistance

tight adder
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Earth + Fire + Thunder 🌍🔥⚡

Volcanic Tempest (Lava, lightning, and quakes all at once)
Molten Storm (Exploding magma charged with electricity)
Earth + Fire + Ice 🌍🔥❄️

Frostforge Eruption (An unstable clash of heat and cold shaping the land)
Scorched Glacier (A battlefield of melting and refreezing terrain)
Earth + Thunder + Ice 🌍⚡❄️

Glacial Quake (A frigid earthquake that shatters ice and rock)
Thundering Frost (Frozen spikes charged with electrical currents)
Fire + Thunder + Ice 🔥⚡❄️

Tempest Inferno (A storm of electricity, fire, and frost)
Frozen Hellfire (Flames that burn with a freezing touch)

urban delta
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Or... FEY OMNIMANCY CATASTROPHES? Big ol 3 turn Ka-Booms

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But even something as simple as Omnimancy 3 spells sound cool.

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Maybe instead of critting they can occasionally leave a Sigil? Haha that is probably too much

tight adder
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fey omnimancy catastrophes, like Fey Iced Earth, a 3-turn spell that crits with a M1 of 4, it hurts the user ofc, but we have the good efficacious to make us 40% tankier :v

trail marsh
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Aiming for these multi turn high m1 spells. Aim for a 1 turn spell with an m1 of 5 mimic

jagged bane
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Now everyone is saying what I wanted to hear, and we're finally back to discussing a wizard with powers. And not with flasks, which also happen to be incredible.

tight adder
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the identity is the flask, the power comes from balance

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but yeah i get the point, Heretic does needs to continue the legacy of Dualmancy in the form of tri-mancy and omni-mancy UvUr

clear frost
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Omni crit spells would be amazing. Trielement omni skills could be neat but a bit of a monkey's paw wish. It i creases the likelihood of hitting a resistance

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Getting them or not are not dealbreakers for me specifically

tight adder
scarlet pawn
# tight adder the freedom to use flask having "6" as limit, probably will make every class jus...

Part of my suggestion for flask selection also suggested a reduction in total flasks.

It also mentioned that the default types of flasks would remain the same, so Ara would still only get 1 blood flask, for example.

So you can pack 3 bloodflask effects on your Ara if you want to, but you have to juggle their use and might get caught in a bad situation if you can't fill that 1 "parent" flask fast enough when that zerk'd Immortal Lord appears.

Other than that, more Omnimancy spells in general is something I agree with. Especially for the lower tiers, if we're concerned about the whole classline. For balance, etc. we can remove the extra damage on hitting a weakness/reduce M1 for low tier versions of existing spells.

tight adder
scarlet pawn
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The Path of the Mage is titled as Omnimancy. Maybe change it to Arcana or something, if only 1 class learns Omni spells.

cedar skiff
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While we generally refer to the mixed element spells as omnimancy spells, lorewise omnimancy just means harnessing of the elements. So, all mage classes still fit the description

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Multi-elemental is what the spells are called in-game

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We are all consistently inconsistent

tight adder
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dual-elemental and tri-elemental is fine odie :B?

void ridge
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Tri-element is worse than what you think, shadowed icestrike can be immuned(0 dmg) just with 1 immunity mimic

tight adder
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well then we shall have the 3rd version of the dual ones :v

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maybe a mix or something in the name :v

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so Odie, what do you think about adding dual-element III or tri-element etc.etc.?

scarlet pawn
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We have Efficacious though...? Not to mention the Omnimancy spells don't interact with elements the way those skills do.

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And of course Horvus doesn't have Efficacious, so there goes that build idea 😅

tight adder
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use magic chakram buddeh

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that's why you use Vesta on Ara :v

scarlet pawn
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Well the idea was putting the Shadowed Element strikes to use without worrying about getting completely shut down but I can see why it's not possible.

Any enemy immune to physical, dark, or the element can't be hit by them except with Efficacious but only Horvus can get the Att needed to use them. Less efficient, perhaps, but that's not always my aim.

urban delta
tight adder
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i thought that dual also worked like ultima... just worse :v

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they receive extra damage to that they are weak

urban delta
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I was under the impression from testing that resistance also factors in but now I've gotta go test more. It's been a while

scarlet pawn
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They already ignore immunity. The physical Omnimancy skills other than UStrikes do not.

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Resistance factors in, yes. It's all moot, really. Just an idea that can't come to fruition 😅

tight adder
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yeah like celestial arrow, i think those do not work like ultima/dual

scarlet pawn
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Celestial Arrow is only Holy

tight adder
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oh i thought it had another ele

scarlet pawn
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It doesn't mention physical in its description and isn't under the Omnimancy category like Frostfire, Ultima, or the Shadowed strikes.

jagged bane
dusk osprey
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poll_question_text

Let's run it back: For those who no longer main Heretic, will you come back with this identity patch?

victor_answer_votes

10

total_votes

19

victor_answer_id

1

victor_answer_text

I will probably main Heretic again.

victor_answer_emoji_id

928401153190940702

victor_answer_emoji_name

heraspeen

victor_answer_emoji_animated

true

thin stone
tight adder
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19 vs 34 votes, wheres the 15 missing :v?

thin stone
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Eaten by a grue

hearty bough
urban delta
hearty bough
tight adder
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'coz i'm efficacious and channeling ultiiiima tooooo (8) (hope i heard that correct as english is not my native lang)

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ah the lyrics is in the descrip :v nice

tight adder
thorn grove
hasty heath
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now that the changes will go live on monday soon, i am very excited about the class. i am curious if there will be any changes, once again i would like to promote aligned sigilflask in the base heretic, because i would recognise the identity with exploiting elemental weakness very well here. In my opinion, banishment flask could very well replaced with it (because this ability is far too situational for me and i can easily eliminate summons in other ways) and therefore a single fillable bloodflask like in heretic ara would be enough for me. and YES, i admit, i want aligned sigilflask to replace lotan... the build possibilities that would result from this are simple far too exciting and would have a real added value for the class.

tight adder
hasty heath
acoustic prairie
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One of them is 20% more damage, the other is 100% more damage

hasty heath
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more dmg is more dmg and they can be combined (i think)... in every case, in my opinion aligned sigilflask is less niche than banishment flask 🙃

brisk salmon
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Can’t be combined either. AFAIK

clear frost
acoustic prairie
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I think it's x2 at least.

clear frost
tight adder
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it's 1.2 vs 1.5

tight adder
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waiting if odie is going to add some more multi-elemental spells

thorn grove
tight adder
thorn grove
clear frost
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Jack Black looks so youn there!

jagged bane
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Will anything be implemented in the beta today before the release? Or is it going to stay as it is?

clear frost
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Simbad do be like

tight adder
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i'm crossing my fingers for Tri-element/dual-element III and omni II 🤞

jagged bane
tight adder
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3pm over here, guessing this is it boys! prepare your bodies for monday release >:D spam your flasks, obliterate the enemies, but most importantly have fun!

urban delta
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The only thing we really need is to rename Inflection Flask to "Blessed Shield Booze"

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😆

clear frost
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@novel magnet , I bet you'd get a few new fans if you make "Heretic but drunk" sprites :p

novel magnet
paper eagle
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all of them

clear frost
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Yes

jagged bane
lilac yacht
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My magical body is ready

jagged bane
lilac yacht
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Me looking for deitys returning from auto T1 DC and 40% buff duration

image0.gif
novel magnet
dusk crescent
jagged bane
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I'm looking for Omnimancy T10 skills with Crit and decent penetration

thorn grove
dusk crescent
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I did some pvp defense testing on beta server, I used a summoner alt against my mirrored mage char.
There is still improvement to be made with regards to AI usage of flask in pvp defense.
For example,

  • the AI used mana ray instead of a more damaging spell (i.e. magic scythe in this case) against enemy, even if the target has low evasion and no mystic feather
  • the AI doesn't really use banishment flask even when the field is almost full of summon
dusk crescent
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Here are some suggestions to change:

  • Banishment should be prioritised when there are 3 or more summon on the field.
  • Mana ray/ blood ray should be prioritised when target has mystic feather and less than 50% hp. Bloodray should be prioritised over mana ray
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any feedback is welcomed

hybrid berry
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PvP defense AI isn’t really smart on any class. I’d push back on having it prioritize the ideal flasks when other classes don’t really get that for their skills

trail marsh
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The problem is it doesn't use them at all really still. Odie said flasks are situational, so if the field fills with summons before you're dead banishment flasks should be used and it doesn't happen. I had the same results as kufoo. Manaray never casted til like turn 10 for me. Banishment never activated at all. I see plenty of gilgas, rs, and beos consistently spam counterattack or DB turn after turn

dusk crescent
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I dont know abt u, but identity patch is supposed to bring tool kit to help with content and challenges, not to make it more challenging lol

dusk crescent
hybrid berry
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against heretic being able to do that. I just think that issue is consistent across all classes

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Right now, the only way to ensure your AI does what you want is to have only one skill equipped

dusk crescent
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Otherwise, i agree with ur solution to choose which flask we can use in defense

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It is definitely more elegant than forcing AI to prioritise certain move

hybrid berry
lilac yacht
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Doesn't avidity work pretty well AI wise?

jagged bane
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Let the update be released, they will definitely make the final adjustments before launching and will be able to see if it's really working or not.

trail marsh
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If it's not brought up then there will be no adjustments

daring sand
hybrid berry
cedar skiff
daring sand
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That's good. But then I don't understand how flasks should help in PvP at all if I usually get killed in 1-2 turns, especially against summoners...

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🤔

lucid seal
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Still,waiting on iOS

lilac yacht
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If you wait for a summoner to get all their summons out it's dead time

lilac yacht
lucid seal
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So…iOS three days later…

lilac yacht
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Probs

jagged bane
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If Heretic gets strong like this, it's difficult because his defense will always be weak, he's a Glasscanon as they'll attack first, it doesn't make sense for you to win as a Glasscanon, only on special occasions that you activate the passive or the follower has protected, now clearing summons in 1 or 2 turns I think is unlikely against Summoner, even in defense a delete summon button in 2 turns is very op.

trail marsh
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But a summoner getting 6 turns in a row isn't..? Unless that summoner patch is going through limiting them to 2 summons without having proper gear then I don't see that OP at all. 6 turns in a row is OP. BP is also OP lol

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The flask won't even be fully charged either

jagged bane
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I have to agree that I'd like to see the heretic with the flasks charged at the start, at least the mana one, or 75% of the blood one, if he could use banishment flasks on the second turn he'd already become much more defensive.

lilac yacht
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What's the point in a flask that you can only use post mortem

jagged bane
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What's more, compared to Beo, a class like the heretic, who should be the lord of magic, has an extremely low magic base. It's extremely difficult to put the heretic's magic at around 8k for pvp, while Beo easily reaches 15k in ATK and Mag.

lilac yacht
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I do like the whole theme of wiping out a battlefield in one click though. I think that should be something more that should have been leaned into.. fits into glass cannon.

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Yeah..I don't really see where glass cannon comes in

hybrid berry
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Flasks aren’t PvP exclusive and there are various ways to prolong a fight: parapet, pet block chance, second chance, etc. I don’t think starting with a charged flask is balanced. Imagine just removing a GSs summons from the field on turn 1, they’d lose on the spot

jagged bane
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I think leaving the mana and blood vials charged on turn 2 should be an idea to consider.

lilac yacht
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But having a whole flask dedicated to just this summons removal seems like a waste of a spot if it cant be used in many circumstances.

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What about mana seep flasks being fully charged T1?

jagged bane
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If the flasks become situational, they will never be used because they load too slowly.

thorn grove
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Tomorrow is the big day 😄

lucid seal
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iOS update just dropped

clear frost
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Plot twist

tight adder
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Nice, we need the toggle On :p

urban delta
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I'd expect 12 hours or so for monday morning in Canada

jagged bane
modest sierra
west wind
thorn grove
thin stone
thorn grove
jagged bane
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It's never taken this long.

thin stone
brisk salmon
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Oops? Lol

terse topaz
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Today was not that day

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Re: AI flasks, I already mentioned this a while back. I just don't think you can make the flasks more useful than not without making them very powerful, but I hope I'm proven wrong

jagged bane
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Will it be possible to add new Omnimancy skills in this update?

tight adder
jagged bane
tight adder
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that without even mentioning that now flask charge rate are better with dual and omni

clear frost
lucid seal
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My biggest problem is that I need time to relearn how to play the class now in both raids dungeons and PVP

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And unfortunately, as a teacher, I just can’t throw in a video and tell the students to bugger off until I play enough to figure it out

thorn grove
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Make them do presentations

mossy bridge
lucid seal
lucid seal
# thorn grove Make them do presentations

Unfortunately, my students have the work ethic as a whole of the US Congress. I have a few soon who might do it, but overall vast majority would rather take the zero and argue about it.

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But then again, unfortunately, so few students of mine will actually even go to college let alone be successful in college. I just try and give them all the opportunities to have a healthy future maybe not the future that they dream of, but at least one that they can live with.

hearty bough
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Just tell them to play orna and use summoning scrolls as an incentive v:

lucid seal
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I’d have to introduce them. They’re stuck in games like Fortnite and halo still.

lucid seal
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On the upside, I’ve been assigned to watch the door when we give the ACT testing later this week: which means that I can actually be on my phone cause I won’t be in the classroom when the students are taking the test

jagged bane
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And here we go again, back to the agonizing wait for the release.

thorn grove
west wind
modest sierra
thin stone
mossy bridge
tight adder
#

The time of monotony is at its end—the mague rework is nigh! No longer shall we be bound by repetition, for a new dawn rises, bringing change, power, and exhilaration! Spells will surge with newfound purpose, mechanics will dance with mastery, and at last, the mague shall shine as it was always meant to. Rejoice, for the rebirth is upon us!

mossy bridge
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Delayed, reason: it can wait another day

paper eagle
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welp there we go

thorn grove
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It was a pleasure going throgh this with you guys

clear frost
mossy bridge
thin stone
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Any moderator ( @paper eagle ) want to do the honors on this one? Another thread graduated. 🎓