#General 3.16 Beta Discussion

2079 messages · Page 3 of 3 (latest)

azure dagger
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I took em with rend epeemightiest_mimic

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Selene hands and prom hands are roughly the same damage actually

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Gotta stop using that as an example

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The leading suggestion currently is to keep m1 at 5 and reduce m2 so top end damage is lower

tepid fjord
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Gotta stop using ss as your counter example then lol

wispy cove
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Imo epee should be 4.5

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M1

azure dagger
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But also prom hands are additive now

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So selene hands are just better in every way if you are hybrid

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Gotta get that out of your head. Those numbers above tell the full story

tepid fjord
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Only those screenshots were live screenshots, not beta, and before the prom hand change being additive was put to live. So rend epee and ss1, the skill everyone agreed needs a nerf, are hitting the same with selene hands turn 1 only one has an m1 of 5. Let's see some 2 turn celestial arrow samples on your end against sokam since any other examples put out aren't considered accurate lol. Just don't forget it's 2 turn and stuck being holy damage which can be zeroed out again before it ever even lands

gloomy elm
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Lol. First try

IMG_1910.png
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Why 2 turn though? 1 turn is better

azure dagger
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Any cele arrow build id put out would be quick casted tbh.

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Im still on the side of m1 5.0, m2 0.4

teal python
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I'd add Horizontal Slash III. As they tend to have similar damage until defense gets really high / defensive buffs go into affect.

Another question, should 16k def zero out everything from 15k att opponent with DC, Golem, barrier up?

azure dagger
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Well no

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Dc/golem/barrier with that defense would require rend epee to get through or redlining

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But other abilities should have no problem pre buff

teal python
azure dagger
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Dc / golem / barrier altogether is like 3.75x to your def

teal python
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At M1 = 4 it'd zero epee too

azure dagger
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Correct

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Which is why I'm against this 'balance' or nerf

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It would close to zero at least

teal python
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15×4 = 16×3.75

azure dagger
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Yup thats the math

teal python
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But yeah, I've seen some crazy BeoA defenses too at high AL

azure dagger
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M1 5.0 and m2 0.4 provides a tool to penetrate but still enables defense to work in most cases honestly

teal python
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I just don't like the scenario where there's no hard counter to defensive stacking

azure dagger
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And that combined multiplier of 2.0 would be less than hs3 so against medium to low defense targets hs3 is just better

teal python
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People against epee are so because they can zero everything else imo

azure dagger
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Some people want to be unkillable

teal python
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I'd rather the adjustment be on the M2 side as will. If an adjustment is deemed necessary at all

azure dagger
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I need to direct respond to this.

1- From what ive heard about the nerf, my beoH at my AL will still hit similar damage numbers with SS skills. The nerf is more and more with ALs above 50. Im pretty close to that threshold already at 65. Flat miss is the biggest issue though and thatll be gone. Yeah, it probably needs more of a nerf than that honestly.

2- ss1 being on par with rend damage for me will stay somewhat the same in those pics for the same reasons as #1. Ss1 also allows you to hide behind insane amounts of unkillable ward, while rend kind of forces you to sit naked in rags killable with a t5 using Tree Trunk. We cant compare the 2 like that, yet here they are doing the same damage.

3- prom hands and selene hands do the same damage as a hybrid class. Selene hands just penetrate more. Cant keep using that as an excuse and i dont want it to be misinformation

teal python
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I believe at al 65 the reduction to SS damage is 4.5%

azure dagger
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Yeah barely anything

teal python
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Right

azure dagger
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So the consolidated screenshot you posted @teal python would still hold true

teal python
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But the removal of static miss is big as you mentioned

azure dagger
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Its massive yes

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But only a start. Lets see what titan augment nerfs do first i think before evaluating next steps there. Tldr dont nerf rend epee m1. Ill die on that hill

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Fix magic if anything if thats the counter argument

teal python
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Agreed, Selene hands are the elephant in the room now and until that's addressed I don't see epee being out of line.

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The 2-hander update has at least cleared a path for a nerf to Selene Hands that won't be felt in horde dungeons.

azure dagger
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Heres 100 AL dursa vs 150 AL gursa

Screenshot_20250302-150922.png
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Nerf rend!!!!!!

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Not totally juiced but you get the point

tepid fjord
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Let's see the stat screens, those are always missing 😆

tepid fjord
azure dagger
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In the sokam v ensseric one

tepid fjord
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Regardless, we can sit here and compare all day. Odie has all of the data on it and said he's looking at it holistically and not just the damage factor and decided to lower the m1. That's telling in itself imo.

azure dagger
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Na i completely disagree. I think that was a mistake

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Im also not sure what data is needed again its just math

tepid fjord
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That's cool and all but he has a lot more data than just damage 😂

gloomy elm
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I do think that ss needs a much bigger nerf. Simply put, rend and magic are best used by glass cannon classes, that have no defenses and both have counters. But ss works with really high defenses and has the same damage output of a glass cannon.

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Maybe though….its the issue of epee and hs3? Because epee is easy to resist, but if you do, you get wrecked by hs3? Idk. I really don’t care about epee at all. Only about ss being nerfed and ultima being less restricted. 😬

tepid fjord
gloomy elm
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Ok. Lemme fix that

autumn python
teal python
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Need a elementless Ultima.

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Though I'm getting rather off topic for this thread now.

gloomy elm
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Lol. It doesn’t need a fix. Never did. IMO. And let’s said it does, amities are too much.

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It’s a general discussion.

tepid fjord
# autumn python Looking at the data at a macro level is only the starting point. Not drilling do...

Only there's 2 ppl consistently zeroing it (and in bof, not settlement or territory) and from the sounds of it, it was due to "abusing" a mechanic. I'll have to re read the post. Pretty sure odie knows the math behind it since he created it but it doesn't always play out as intended. I had 18k def + warden + 15% territory defense amity + every conq build bonus and wasn't zeroing out a player with 130 AL less than myself. I'm sure I slowed him a ton given he only grabbed 13, but quite tightly grouped so maybe he just wasn't going far. Maybe ge equalized me, who knows. But given all the math we've seen he should have been zeroed out easy

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Do I want or need to zero it, again no. Top end damage should be reduced absolutely and being a 1 turn spell the m1 should be brought on par with other turn 1. M1 of 4.5 does just that

azure dagger
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Or just reduce m2

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That reduces top end damage

autumn python
# tepid fjord Only there's 2 ppl consistently zeroing it (and in bof, not settlement or territ...

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are referencing with the "2 ppl". My previous comment highlighted the importance of looking at the numbers and the experiences of those players posting data driven evidence to help balance the game.

But I'm curious, your personal situation - sounds like you don't actually know what this other player was doing to you? Have you reached out and asked?

It's a shame there isn't a feature that counts when you "defend" a settlement (defend being a defeat or someone attacks and leaves it).

If there was, you would have a better picture of the situation.

lucid bronze
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Any chance with gear balances we can get t.All 1 on all pieces of Yggrasil drops rather than just the chest?

Would be fun for build varieties on all classes 🤔

eager cipher
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Looks like a buff for deity 🫠

lucid bronze
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And RCorvus
And HCorvus
And any Gilga, Beo or GS that wanted to

🤔

wispy cove
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It has horrible proc rate