Monumental Guild

[high obsidian]

Wut

Now im sure you farmed amorri since u are 250, but being able to get this from the monument casino doesnt seem right

For anyone

[plain pumice]

Farming Amorri is as pleasant as farming Endless

Boring, often frustrating

and risk of burn out

I already got a 170%+ from that and was satisfied

But if you want to know worst, it was during Winter Wind, during the 3 days of Sisters of Morrigan
At the moment, I didn't know that Guild karma capped at 1000

[teal egret]

Well the maps broken for me, anyone else?

[lethal void]

Bug report is at https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1197621102004940871

[mellow tree]

I think the guild and monuments in general felt a little bloated before karma, or at least before I knew about it’s existence. Now I definitely feel there are too many moving pieces.

[low smelt]

After the 20th Monument, i think my energy for them is depleted.
Im really not a fan of them trying to be a second tower - its too much menuing and walking for too little reward.
I would love to see a version of the monument where everything is condensed in one screen, without the walking.

ill go check out the beta later on, maybe something changed in there - didnt got to do that yet for didnt get the update yet

[cedar wagon]

ok, I must have missed some announcement: what is the new timer on momuments? It used to be about 18 hours, now, it is really short

[minor salmon]

It used to be 23.
Now it's 6, and reduceable by concords

[little stag]

#game-announcements message

[minor salmon]

as per #game-announcements message

[cedar wagon]

Thanks. Didn't catch that announce due to teaching 🙂 Downside, I can't just pick up some on the way home and do them later...I have two concords

[little stag]

you can unequip for the few seconds to queue the dungeon and re-equip

[cedar wagon]

Not while driving 🙂

I just click and leave and go

[minor salmon]

For the love of god don't drive and play.
And the game is very much not going to accomodate for driving and playing.

[cedar wagon]

That is why I am doing the click and continue later approach

[teal egret]

with 2 concords and spelunking I can literally just spend hours running nothing but monument

I have 2 at my OT

Saying that, now that I've run so many monuments back to back to back to back....
I think the chests in monument should be changed to be more valuable. After I get def/res I don't feel like clicking them. I can get... 1 mat or 1 avarice token or 1 monument token or .. you get my idea.. even the orns are tiny like 3000

chests are under valued

[tribal plank]

Get faster at running monuments, 30 minutes is a very slow run 😅

[teal egret]

no I have 2 monuments, 2 concords the timer is less than 1 hr

also have an infant, not 100% focused

[tribal plank]

It's worth noting that the chests rewards are a bit more valuable in lower tiers, they just don't scale that well. They could maybe be a bit more valuable to T10/T11 players, but also with monuments getting a massive buff like they just did, now might not be the time

[tribal plank]

Cooldowns have a minimum of 1 hour, my comment was just a joke though

[teal egret]

yea, chests overall just need to be looked at for t10/11

not exciting finding 1 mat

[simple lily]

only 1 item and I'm T10 , is this normal? 💀💀💀💀

[lethal void]

Yes

[compact quiver]

Each item has an individual chance to spawn, is there a hard cap on that?

[lethal void]

no min, no max

[simple lily]

ahhh, I understand 🥶

[dim drum]

Every reset, Odie personnaly decide what items you get based on your username and his mood

[compact quiver]

Really?

That's sad

[lethal void]

It’s a tough job, but somebody’s got to do it

[high obsidian]

Lol Santa's list who been naughty or nice

I been getting str8 coal daily so i know im not on the nice list

[robust sky]

Gotta subscribe to the patreon

[teal egret]

It's true. I've had folks bewildered at having 0 items in guild.

[compact quiver]

Same for me

[hardy vigil]

Those are the ones Odie didn't get to hand-pick in time.

[mellow tree]

make everyone's the same except one person who uses the discord. for a week. sometimes change that person's to match everyone else's. deny any weirdness

observe the effects and document

[compact quiver]

Why are you giving ideas

[static fossil]

I miss doing monuments haha but only because I refuse to change what type of VD acc I'm wearing. The ol one hour is too short for queing them up then doing when I get home

[little stag]

#FirstWorldProblems

[static fossil]

#UnproductiveInput

[cosmic yarrow]

The only thing I'm glad I don't have to worry about while I queue them up while commuting,
Though full-clearing them takes a while, so I typically only queue them up near the end of my commute, so I can slowly run through Deep Dungeons on stretches of the ride where I know there's nothing around me.

As an aside, I would like to thank you again NF for letting all kills in Monuments give Monumental Guild EXP.

[dim drum]

with the exp on all pack, I feel like 100 exp per run is reasonable

[cosmic yarrow]

it's closer to 150-200 exp per run for me, depending on if I'm sprinting or full-clearing. really pretty good stuff

[lusty terrace]

Maybe we could get a timer on the monuments to show when fall off will start?

[worldly moon]

#💡│suggestions message

[hardy vigil]

Is anyone else getting absolutely no rolls in the monumental guild? Today and yesterday, I got exactly zero options to spend proofs of avarice on.

[forest wave]

Today was the 1st time I got an item in the shop this month, and it's only a single one.

[high obsidian]

Like all the time man

Meanwhile people swimming in dough at the monument casino

[dim drum]

Statisticly, you will see all the items at least once

[lusty terrace]

Gotta prey to RNJesus more.

[cedar wagon]

Thank odie for monuments….only place I’m getting kerebos fur…only 2 beast den in a 11 mile drive where I live….14 monuments though

[teal egret]

Manticore hearts are the new deadlock

[vestal wolf]

It's just day 5 of the event

[tulip briar]

It's also buried in riftfall spam

Everything was fine until the rift nation invaded.

[lusty terrace]

I haven't tried it, but if you've finished the trial line, you may be able to get manticore's from monster remains?

[tulip briar]

I can spam and find out

Gonna say no.

[lusty terrace]

Bummer. Not even rift stuff either. Thankyou for trying!

[dim drum]

IDK i am having huge Horn lock

But I do have 2 beast den at my place this week

[candid egret]

I prefer last months item rolls so far

Few days of nothing :/

[stray escarp]

im just waiting for a beastfellen carb to be in monument shop

then ill drain my stock

[little stag]

it wont appear. items from special summon scrolls don't (same as rift distortion, Jormungandr, etc.)

[candid egret]

I'd like some summoner gear, or a spiked greatshield to appear.

[little stag]

those can, ive had the t10 summoner helm appear, all the rest from the "judge" raids should appear normally in the monument guild, its 2 weeks but its RNG...can't rely on it, but chance is decent.
Don't forget to get that guild karma up. The manticore/beast drops are decent for guild karma, kerb/judges is a bit of a waste of rare mats IMO.

[midnight rapids]

I understand that sometimes you don't get the items you want but what I don't like is that your monument shop can roll without items completely. 2/3 days from riftfall my shop has only follower/mats and not even an opportunity for items

[little stag]

each item has a separate chance to appear, is there a more fair formula that works when there is an event with only a few items and when there are multiple events with a ton of items? if so suggest it!

[lethal void]

Well, we still want folk to do the content 🙂

[candid egret]

Does karma affect the rate or appearance of gear in the guild ?

[midnight rapids]

RNG...protection

[high obsidian]

One of my kingdom mates didnt kill a single achlys and now has full ornate t10 riftrogue average 194% quality

Idk why that was made possible but 🤷‍♂️

[vocal cosmos]

I haven't even gotten anything worth rolling on yet. Sounds like RNG being RNG. We could just as easily be saying "So and so only killed Achlys 5x and got a full set whereas I've killed him 500x and have nothing." Bottom line they still had to raid a lot for the proofs and get lucky enough to roll the items in the guild shop.

[high obsidian]

Thats a massive swing in RNG. Would you rather raid 500+ times one boss or just casino roll it

Ill pick the latter every day of the week

[vocal cosmos]

I'll tell you after I've actually had a chance to casino roll on something. Never even seen an item I wanted yet since the guild went live.

[high obsidian]

You should roll something for fun

Get some data

[vocal cosmos]

If Kerb shield lands, I will roll just to see. Not that I'd probably use it much but I've always wanted one

[candid egret]

My toes... they tingle with hope

[high obsidian]

Come one come all get your free ornate bis pieces

[haughty lantern]

I don't know if it's a bug or what, but since the begining of February I had like 2 or 3 days with gear in Monument Guild, and only 1 or 2 at best

I just prefer to mention it since we discovered that my 0 tower in OT wasn't bad luck xD

[dim drum]

My heart skiped when I saw a rhada shield bit it was the t8 dungeon shield

[teal egret]

Any time I get gear it's t7 or t8. I'm fine with the casino cause it's double bad luck. First you gotta roll the item, and might not even get it to show up. Then you got your 1/200 chance to get an ornate if you're at 1000 karma. Still gotta have boatloads of avarice tokens anyway.

[high obsidian]

Another instance of the monument casino being unbalanced.

Took me 500 rhada kills (pre monument) to get only a 185 spiked greatshield.

Kingdom mate rolls a 197 with low guild karma and never killed a single rhada

Happy for the guy love to see the kingdom get stronger and all, but man that just stings

[sweet agate]

and then you've people with 0 items in the shop. It's very RNG.

[minor salmon]

I mean, is that any different from him having killed a single rhada and getting a 197 shield right off the bat?

[desert jackal]

It is

Since this is more similar to getting it in 100 kills

[sweet agate]

except he didn't kill anything Rhada related, that the part S2iVi dislike so much.

[desert jackal]

But I still like the monumental guild thing

[vocal cosmos]

Personally I view it like this. It gives me a reason to farm raids in months I wouldn't otherwise farm raids and give me extra chances at items I want in months where I might burn myself out trying to farm a specific item. At least in theory.

[desert jackal]

I view it in the same light

[sweet agate]

IMO a system where you use an increasing amount of proofs to reroll an item you droped would be better regarding the issue of S2iVi

[desert jackal]

For example this will give me a reason to farm clurichauns next month in case of some mini event I am interested in takes place

[vocal cosmos]

As someone who has terrible luck though I can certainly understand that feeling of "my guy didn't even KILL the raid and got a great drop and I farmed it 1200 times!" You don't even want to see how many Rhadas I had to kill before I finally got a good shield.

[sweet agate]

"don't worry, an ornate is 1/200 chance" If I ever catch the idiot who told me that

[desert jackal]

It's written in the ingame codex now

[high obsidian]

Yeah this

If you kill rhadas and get a 19x spiked greatshield in 10 kills, lucky you.
If you never killed a rhada and got one, while others in the past went through the ringer to get one with hours of time spent, wtf?

[desert jackal]

Just make all available items guaranteed to appear in the shop, ez fix

[high obsidian]

Yeah it's a crappy feeling

Devalues the chase

Feels like a lot of hard work went down the drain honestly

[rigid quail]

the real raiding itself sometimes feels like the supplementary chances / way to get the ornate gear ngl

[lethal void]

perhaps #💡│suggestions could be utilized here to see if more of the community feels that way about the monumental guild now

[little stag]

the raiding is the trivial part, getting the materials for the raid scrolls is the real challenge.

[half island]

Results?

[compact quiver]

Yeah, that's why not having special raids in monuments is honestly a pretty great feature

[vestal wolf]

-sggest remove the guild casino and return to clean life

Only regular mugging of the innocent raids to get your hands on the looooot

[high obsidian]

#💡│suggestions message

Done

[compact quiver]

Truly the way of nidhoggs, beating up and brutally murdering for profits

[tulip briar]

RNG gear progression to be like that. 1000s of rhada kills = 171% ornate for one person, 10 rhada kills for 200% for another.

[vocal cosmos]

Alternative suggestion up for your viewing pleasure/displeasure

[vestal wolf]

-sgst remove ornates from the casino. This way people can still get regular quality up to legs (to at least have an item in their disposal), but to get best quality you must raid directly

Because so far I see the problem only being the ornates received 'too easily'

Otherwise, no matter what you do, someone will still get just lucky, and top players will still be top players

[blazing barn]

NF said that they would monitor the rates of acquisition between normal raiding and Avarice gambling. There is some threshold for acceptance; how much above or below that are we?

Some public numbers would help prevent the topic from being purely feelings driven.

i.e. is it the case that only a small amount (5% of total) of raid ornates are from Avarice? And is the target 10%? If so, everything's great and doesn't need a change.

[brisk sedge]

I do think some of the opinions aren't really feeling based though too.

I expect that too acquire riftfall loot, you have to engage with riftfall. Not spend avarice proofs from dragons or Christmas. That is much more a design preference/philosophy

That certainly gets muddled with the "player x never killed achlys and had full 19X ornates"

But it is pretty close to the same argument, just more feeling-y

[blazing barn]

The design philosophy is at least partially based on being able to roll past event efforts into future events. It's not a hidden thing, NF said as much.

The details of karma (to bias it toward the 'current' event) could be changed.

[brisk sedge]

Very true, though I guess then it just becomes a difference in the design philosophy we have versus want we want. I'd be all for changing the karma system though

The current data suggests there isn't a difference in ornate rates between 0 and 1000 karma, which to me sounds like it isn't doing much of what it intended to do

My grumpy old man suggestion would be to lock ornates completely behind max karma, but I'm sure the community probably hates that idea

[little stag]

all rolls guaranteed ornate at max karma? 🤤

[compact quiver]

0% ornate chance at 999 karma and .5% at 1k

||this is satirical||

[blazing barn]

If the problem is the perception that people don't interact with the event at all yet still pull ornates, then a karma minimum for Avarice makes sense.

Would love to hear NF's thoughts. They opened the conversation by adding Avarice -- all raid ornates used to require deep interaction with the event. Avarice walks away from that, and karma is a middle ground closer toward the old way.

(If you haven't already please suggest that. @brisk sedge )

[vestal wolf]

People might have quite objective reasons, say, being ill. And that one interaction was their last chance to get a go at the event.

[brisk sedge]

If a person is ill for the entirety of a month long event, there are likely bigger issues than ornate gear in Orna.

I get the point, but trying to cover the myriad of reasons people cant/wont/don't want to farm is a losing battle

[vestal wolf]

Well, am I correct to assume that the only reason is that someone feels less happy because someone else got lucky?

[brisk sedge]

Yes

[compact quiver]

Yup

[vestal wolf]

But... isn't it the dev's job to disappoint everyone equally?

[brisk sedge]

I'm unhappy that people can get the gear without participating in the event at all.

If somebody kills achlys 1 time and rolls three perfect ornates, great for them. At least they killed the raid

[compact quiver]

It is? :0

[brisk sedge]

Having the gear be purchasable at all is a huge step towards accessibility and availability. I don't think it is crazy to expect that the absolute best rolls (ornates) be locked behind actual event participation

Though I expect this is all for moot anyway

The community isn't going to be OK with taking away the free loot casino now that it's been created

[desert jackal]

I like your idea but as I replied to your suggestion, I don't think it's feasible with the current event rng (the gear you want appearing in day 1 of the event)

[vestal wolf]

Events consist of a lot more content than just raids

[haughty lantern]

If people spend avarice token to get gears, then they participated in an event one moment or another. Not all people have a stable game style. The demand for letting people maybe grab some gear in an event they can't farm seem real to me 🤔

[vocal cosmos]

Personally doesn't matter to me, kill it nonce, once. Even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.

[brisk sedge]

Fair point - I've argued that the gear should just be available for the full month but odie didnt seem to like that too much

[pastel drum]

What if you had a system where you had to kill x amount of raids for y amount of additional purchases on their drops? Just a thought.

[desert jackal]

Additional purchases? Like more on top of the 100 rolls you get?

[pastel drum]

No, as in you kill 2 rhadas for 1 purchase, still caps at 100 purchases

[compact quiver]

As in 1 kill for 10 rolls

[pastel drum]

something of the sort

since people are hard pressed on others not having to kill anything for drops it feels like

[desert jackal]

Then the shop wouldn't serve its original intent

[pastel drum]

dunno, just a thought

[compact quiver]

What was the original intent? Just asking

[desert jackal]

I am not 100% sure if I remember correctly but it's too give people a chance to interact with events in case of being burnt out or not being available to actively farm for the events

[tulip briar]

Imo this isn't a solveable problem in orna's current method of loot. You restrict down how often you roll from the "casino" in the monument, someone still gets a quick ornate, someone else is going to be jealous. Flip side, I roll all of my 100 chances, my friend gets an ornate in 5 kills while I grinded to get an ornate chance from momument. Now I'm jealous. There isn't ever going to be an equality of luck in an RNG system. Some will always be luckier than others. So far the suggestions imo just make things more difficult for the sake of making things difficult without solving the actual problem that is causing all of this. Since RNG up the wazoo is Orna's thing, there will always be someone frustrated at someone else's luck imo

[desert jackal]

Also just rolls over into the problem of casual players vs highly active players playing this game and getting loot I think. That's probably the entire reason why such a heavily rng system exists in the first place

[dim drum]

The way loot inthis game is made, is the oposite of "deserving" loot

any complain where people cry about people not deserving their Ornate, for me is a red flag that the person does not understand how this game's loot philosophy is

[desert jackal]

It isn't an option to make grinding necessary as well since everyone has a different amount of grind they are comfortable with

[dim drum]

Nothing prevents anyone from getting a 200 ornate roll on first kill, or having 500 kill and not getting more then a 176

This game does not give a shit about how much you "deserve" an ornate

[tulip briar]

Bingo.

[dim drum]

So any "People who use monuments don't deserve their ornates" don't deserve their refinery, their guild shop shortcuts to their ascension blocks, and any other form of content that makes other rng system be lesenned

[desert jackal]

I feel like we should get a pop up whenever launching the game that says there's no way to guarantee getting an ornate 😂

[dim drum]

I want an odie sprite remind me constantly that I have been a good RS and always deserve all my ornates

[compact quiver]

Just show the number of people who got 200% event ornates randomly lol

That didn't come out very well -,-

[dim drum]

I got an 199 Fey Hel chest piece I am not using

[compact quiver]

I swear it was funnier in my head

[compact quiver]

I have a few fey hel stuff too, unfortunately I'm never going rs

[dim drum]

and i got a 200 riftrogue chest I am not using

[compact quiver]

I'm pretty sure I can find a few of these too, but can't remember off the top of my head

[dim drum]

when ever they add the new quality if that ever happens for that 195+, then it will be much easier to spot

[compact quiver]

Oh, I found this perfect gilga axe, which dropped after like 40 kills

[brisk sedge]

I don't think most people are making an argument about who "deserves" loot

It comes down to preferred game design.

Right now it is just event gear, but we could easily extrapolate the exact same arguments here to other parts of the game.

Why not make titan augments purchasable? Why can't I purchase specific amities? After all, it's just an RNG fest and I've already farmed all of this content plenty. Might as well open it all up for purchase

[tulip briar]

Because Titan augments are always available. So are quest rewards and certain raids. You always have them accessible. Events are fomo. Some bad luck protection should be justifiable when time is not on your side.

[thorny aurora]

No it really does look like it's a who deserves loot argument and what I see is people saying if you don't do the raids, you don't deserve the loot. Better luck next year!

and we all know why things aren't purchasable and should remain that way.

[dim drum]

A lot of people are making an arguments that people don't deserve their ornates without doing the raids

[little stag]

we should also add a minimum for the boss to be codexed with 100 kills before ornate drops, then no one can complain.

maybe less for super bosses.

[compact quiver]

Could you explain? I didn't quite get that

[little stag]

add a minimum kill and codex threshold so raid ornates are deserved, same requirement for monument guild casino and kills. problem solved.

[compact quiver]

Ah, ty

[desert jackal]

Are they guaranteed to appear if you do that though (in the guild shop) 🤔

[little stag]

still RNG ( gotta have something to complain about right?) , but events should be at least 10 days or something so the odds are decent.

[sweet agate]

imo a 180 cap would be fair

this way it's still can be ornate for items that matter (luck for example)

[little stag]

which would make the casino worthless for all higher tier players.

[desert jackal]

I vote nay, I can't get the things I want to appear in the casino in the first place and you're asking for labour on top of that

[sweet agate]

it would be worthless for those who want perfect items, and I'm totally fine with that

[tulip briar]

I'd rather be forced to codex something to get ornates from them instead of rebuilding 1k karma and making sure I have enough avarice tokens to only be capped at a low ornate tbh

At least the codex method universally requires event interaction regardless of your method of obtaining ornates.

[vestal wolf]

Unless you are summoner

[tulip briar]

"Change Class" - Good portion of the population
"We want to encourage people to swap classes more often" - NF.

Personally speaking I would be complaining loudly as a GS main if I had to codex to get ornates. I'd still rather do that than deal with an rng chance to see the item I'm looking for with more rng to see if I even land on any kind of ornate of said item with more RNG to see if it's a decent % chance only to find I'm stuck at 180% or lower with said method.

[dim drum]

again, I think "deserved" is soo far off from how the game works that it should be marked as a red flag for being a bad idea the moment that word is put in a suggestion

the only content that has a "deserve" mecanic is the deterministic towers of Olympia and the new pvp guild

[thorny aurora]

What deterministic towers of Olympia mechanic are you talking about? Not sure I follow that.

[little stag]

farming shards is only random to +-10% for drops, unlike 1/hundreds chance of farming most other things? And the adornments dont give a huge advantage at broken/ornate, while getting them to drop is pretty much gauranteed.

[dim drum]

Pretty much what Mosz said. Getting the celestial weapons or classes is mostly a question of doing the content with regular success or quantity of times. You don't roll for your ability to get the celestial class like one rolls for a good ornate worth upgrading and using

Getting a Fey Arisen Morigan bow at 200 quality on the first kill is just as deserved as having it about 1000 kills, because it's pure RNG

[high obsidian]

Event participation is at least a good minimum requirement, and removing amorri gear from the table.

It would also be nice to separate raiding and dungeons, i.e. obtaining a riftrogue piece from doing horde dungeons seems like cheese

[dim drum]

No system to gatekeep who gets the roll

I like the idea of using karma as a "requirement" since it resets every month and it makes more sense then a guild level requirement

Since that just means you bothered to do the event, you unlock the shop for said event

even if that is one of the many event that month

[thorny aurora]

Problem is on day 1 you have 0 karma and It could be the only day you get a chance at something you really want to roll on.

[dim drum]

I am not a fan on how bare the shop is every day myself

but that is a seperate issue

One should not lock oneself out of a solution because a seperate fixable problem is in the way

[thorny aurora]

Did something change to where Karma equates to amount of things rollable? It thought that the formula was no limitations at all, no min and no max as to what is available.

[dim drum]

No clue and if that is the case, then the lack of UX expressing it is annoying

[mellow tree]

I feel like the “must kill the raid” camp would have a better point if Orna raids were designed to be difficult. It’s really just a different kind of grind for the most part.

Even the super raids are a grind locked behind another grind. You don’t need to be an elite player

Ergo, the current monument loot system fits better with how the rest of the event raid ecosystem works. I’m not particularly fond of either, but they do make sense together.

[heavy blaze]

Karma reset is still the worst part

[tulip briar]

Karma resets suck but am fine with them being in with how quickly you can arguably build it in some events

[thorny aurora]

I would love to see Anguish raids and phased raids and daily raids, weekly raids, monthly raids we kind of have with AWG

Maybe even a special elite raide where you get tickets to it by doing other raids in the month the raid is happening. But that is not here nor there.

[candid egret]

1 Ornate Summoner Pants.

Lots of titanium and Fosston though

It's like free materials

[candid egret]

-suggest

Completed codex entries required to see gear from event enemies.

[vocal cosmos]

Please...just no...the dragons were bad enough.

[teal egret]

Everyone complaining about casuals getting ornate raid loot from monument and not realizing some of these events don't even come around more than once a year, and said casuals aren't gonna kill 1000 raids in a month. They'll have one month to try and snag a decent item, and if they don't, maybe they just quit. Monument makes gear acquisition easier, no doubt. I guarantee it also helps new player acquisition and retention though.

[blazing barn]

That can't be the only or best reason to have Avarice gambling.

By the same logic, increasing ornate drop rate from 1/200 to 1/20 would make gear acquisition easier and help new player acquisition and retention too.
Or making it 1/10, or 1/3, or 1/1 (every raid an ornate!).

Why build a complex system when a droprate number could be changed instead?

The argument for avarice gambling from the start was all about rolling past effort into current event. Build up proofs of avarice during events you really like, and then buy ornates (or try to buy ornates) from events you don't care to farm. That it was targeting players who were burning out on FOMO grinding an event they didn't want to participate in.

(Karma exists to tilt the scale a little bit back in the normal direction, so you need to do "some" of the event to get good avarice rates, but you don't need to grind out 30 days of the month.)

[placid falcon]

Just a reminder:

Before you have a chance to gamble for an ornate with Avarice, that item had to first appear in the monument for sale.

The actual rate of ornate drop should be less than 1/200 if we factor this in

[blazing barn]

Reminds me to make a "guild shop refresh" suggestion 😅 that the challenge should be about getting proofs of things, not crossing your fingers that you get a chance to spend the proofs that you put effort into getting.

Same topic came up in uhh... anguish/towers shops. It's a perennial.

[placid falcon]

I have the misfortune of not having fallen sky shoe appear even once in the dec event/jan mini event.. and here I am seeing people complaining Avarice is unfair too lucrative etc..

smh

[blazing barn]

I think it's also a problem for the guild (so, good for the topic) but somewhat tangential to the topic of how strong/weak/efficient Avarice gambling is overall.
It's a problem for mini-events, but in a month-long event the item you want to gamble on is ~going to show up.

(Also I made a suggestion for guild shop refresh: #💡│suggestions message )

[placid falcon]

well hopefully it will appear

[desert jackal]

I wanted arisen jolly stockings and arisen top hat in December but those didn't appear the entirety of the month, it's not a guarantee in and way for them to show up

[lusty terrace]

Yeah, can confirm some of the items you want don't show for the entire event. And have had several days with 0 items.

[scarlet hornet]

Is anyone else experiencing no items to roll for in the monument guild? I have 1,000 karma to spend on rift gear and no gear at all all week.

[midnight rapids]

Yeah just luck of the draw unfortunately. I've been waiting on rift gear or spiked and it hasn't come up

[vocal cosmos]

Had some Avarice to burn and no Ornate Arisen Riftrogue chest yet so thought I'd try 100 rolls.

That's with 1000 Karma

[teal egret]

Yea I ran on arisen riftguard helm, got 3 legendaries, highest 166

[dim drum]

People complained about alts getting a 195+ arimori fey staff on first kill before, it's the same conversation all over agian

[blazing barn]

This is why I said this.

I don't think we're going to get anywhere stacking anecdotes about "I never got what I wanted from Avarice" or "I got an ornate on my third pull".
NF should monitor rates, and it would help to know if current avarice gear acquisition is in acceptable bounds.

[midnight rapids]

That's a level headed response

[dim drum]

people being vocal about their successes are blips to the masses of people rolling and not talking about their meh results

[teal egret]

Exactly. I have yet to get an ornate of anything out of monument and more often than not it's either 0 gear or t7,t8 so mostly pointless. I use monument primarily for funding raid scrolls to do the raid itself.

[forest wave]

The only item I rolled for that didn't give me at least one ornate was FSS. Only item I wanted that didn't appear for purchase was the cowl from the same event, hopefully SGS won't join it but there's still time.

The existence of the guild removed most incentive for me to actually play the game. Karma and proofs are a complete non-factor after a few hours of play per month. Only the event specific scrolls are still an incentive to me.

[haughty lantern]

Nothing wrong with a game helping players to stay active by rewards obtained through limited time farming.
But if loot farming was the only thing that motivated you and no the gameplay (how you farm it), maybe Monument Guild isn't the source of your troubles

[high obsidian]

This. If you can just get a 40% chance of ornate of an item thru monument casino, why not try that first before you invest scrolls / korns in potentially 400+ kills

If you get the ornate, cool dont have to play the game for that item / guess go do something else

[placid falcon]

I doubt event participation had dropped due to existence of monument

[high obsidian]

Sure but amirite or na?

Like if i want full riftrogue, may as well roll first then farm

Rolling is the new priority

Shouldnt be that way

[compact quiver]

It's always a chance you'll get it in the monuments in the first place, putting monument rolls in priority is putting trust in your luck

Monuments are a nice simulated 100 rolls you could get

But they never were the priority

[placid falcon]

if you want to rely on luck hoping for the item to appear in monument, Sure.
For more consistence, i still summon those raid boss to farm the items i want.

Remember these event only appear at most twice a year. I wont rely on monument entirely

Thats what i do: i hope for the riftrogue items i want to appear in monument, but i still do summon lots of achlys just for that reliability

[desert jackal]

I assume you could just wait till the last day of the event before trying to summon raids

That's what I'm doing at least

[compact quiver]

That's assuming I'm gonna get perfect ornates with elements from the achlys I summoned

I know I'm not that lucky

[placid falcon]

i used to have the same thoughts, but it is harder to find mirror after event ends..

[compact quiver]

Oof, that just hit me 🥲

Thanks for reminding

[desert jackal]

I look for mirrors always after the events end

[high obsidian]

Yep exactly

If nothing appears in monument by last day cool drop scrolls and mirror immediately

In a 14 day event i find it difficult to believe that nothing of that raid showed up esp for green items

So yes, monument is the priority now for getting ornates

[teal egret]

Or be a sane person and use scrolls and mirror as usual, and if you win the gamble and get the chance to roll in monument, do that too. Chances are you're going to keep going anyway to get that 199

[rigid quail]

saving scrolls for next/future event(s) if we already got an ornate gear from monument is probably best imo, no need to clutter your own base

[desert jackal]

To be honest, I don't think I'd use scrolls for most events now, super/craftable raid scrolls have drops which tends to be better nowadays anyways

Waiting for a powercreep 1h weapon to drop for the next super raid

[teal egret]

If this is true, they'll see a stockpile of raid scrolls building up and likely act on that.

[teal egret]

Found this a bit misleading.

"Or after a week of inactivity" - apparently this means "after a week of no forfeits", not inactivity

My avarice is high enough that I didn't feel the need to continue forfeiting. Went back to dismantling gear for mats. Had 1k karma. Now back to 1.

[dim drum]

Oh that is BS indeed

a week of inactivity in my book is inactivity from the game, not from a Specific "inactivity from giving gear that is tied to current event"
See how one is vague and the other is VERY DEFINED

[lethal void]

#💡│suggestions 🙂

[brittle crystal]

the monuments doodad really remind me of stone circles. maybe its the guild building one? similar vibe

[dim drum]

forgot to link back here

#💡│suggestions message

I did as Odie asked

[neat ingot]

can we use proofs to refresh monuments list of items? - suggestion

[blazing barn]

#💡│suggestions message

[neat ingot]

thought you were directing me to make one and i made another one lol

[teal egret]

Would be nice if more of the arisen mobs showed up in monument at t10. They all seem to give hard to get mats, like the arisen draconian lord, pure draconite.

[jolly plover]

Not getting chance to roll for item at all from guild is very annoying. Feels like loosing 100+ raids

[dim drum]

yup, not a single ability to roll on spiko shield or riftrogue boots

[desert jackal]

My two chase items as well

Tempted to use scrolls for it now

But my ot is already a mess

[midnight rapids]

Chances are so low

[willow dew]

Really just wouldn't rely on the monument guild. If you get it, great, but chances aren't in your favor even if it does come up. Better to just put in the work on raiding.

[desert jackal]

Yeah, farmed scrolls just in case

Since I've had bad luck with my chase items

For all 3 months

[willow dew]

Yeah, I had failed riftfall everytime it has come up until now - this time I farmed ~300 of both rhada and achlys to get both items. Glad I did as monument wouldn't have gotten me anywhere close.

[desert jackal]

I only made 270 scrolls, don't know whether I should spend them or not

Low chance to get riftrogue pants and spiked greatshield

🫠

I'd be happy with either or

[willow dew]

I actually really struggle with scrolls on this event because I get like 50% charan from the event pool

so I did it all with kingdom orns this time around

[desert jackal]

I'm tempted to wait for September since there's Kerberos in pool as well

Surprisingly though, I think I only saw one Kerberos item in monumental guild the entire month

[willow dew]

Yeah, don't have much use for it, though the wolf blood is welcome. I bought a ton of low tier riftfall stuff to dismantle into titanium though.

[cedar wagon]

Try getting that item but after 100 rolls not a single ornate….just did that with the spiked shield

[jolly plover]

Well not having chance to get lucky is my upset. Feels bad both ways.

Im actually kinda lucky that i got ornate spiked. Just low % 1 from about 100 raids

Some people have thousands and no ornates at all

[brittle crystal]

I managed to stand on a point that it seemed to rotate around

[vestal wolf]

Seems like you have an older version. What's your game version atm?

[brittle crystal]

3.10.2
TIL also that no credit was accrued before I build the Guild Hall

[little stag]

same with other guilds

[brittle crystal]

oh there was an update! ty for tip

[brittle crystal]

fwiw the spelunking and fishing guilds both counted progress before i built them

I just have been seeing "4 guild experience" etc in monument battle rewards and had a false expectation

[vestal wolf]

if android, there's 3.10.3 version with slightly different monument buildings

[static fossil]

So fishing guild will back count fish caught? Do I need to fish again for that to happen?

Cause mine is still 0 exp with almost 700 caught on my record screen

[brittle crystal]

not back fish, but after it was a thing

[static fossil]

Ah gotcha

[brittle crystal]

and before i built the little shack

altho it couldve changed idk. it doesn't matter that much I just wanted to say what happened here in case someone else comes searching too

[brittle crystal]

wow the trees added to the monument icon really fix my perspective issues too

[teal egret]

Wait what? Monuments aren't massive anymore? Blasphemy

[compact quiver]

Wait wht

Monuments are smaller? Gotta check this out 👀

[dusky pike]

#game-announcements message

Start of the month that update went through, yep 🙂

[pliant moat]

that was the floor layout, the actual sprite size changed with 3.10.3 a few days ago

they're lil babies now

[dusky pike]

Ah I see what you're referencing, cool. That change has been on the cards since implementation, glad it happened 🙂

[teal egret]

No way man, I loved giant monuments. Wanted to build some of my own!

It could cost 9999 Firestone for a prom monument!

[candid egret]

What's an active activity

Aw nvm that's much better

[compact quiver]

Oh, it wasn't floor 😅

[brittle crystal]

so yesterday I visited the Monument guild building and got like 6 levels. Maybe it counted my back-log experience??

[compact quiver]

Ye

[teal egret]

When we had two events going I was getting boatloads of monument tokens, now with just beastfelled I'm getting what feels like half. Should probably normalize it.

[compact quiver]

60 proof avg vs 100 proofs avg

What exactly needs normalisation?

[teal egret]

Just the amount of event mobs that show up

More events = more mobs

Should probably be same quantity of event mobs, more events just means the quantity is split.

[little stag]

won't then people be upset when there are multiple events at once...

[brittle crystal]

maybe its ok that its different at different times

[somber kettle]

I’m not for either side but I’d like to point out people are already upset about multiple events overlapping because of dungeons and raid pools getting diluted, makes it hard to grind either event

[lusty terrace]

What sucks is that there are so many events that it's going to be very hard to not let events overlap OR they may have to not do anymore monthly events. OR they could give dungeons and monuments the ability to choose which event you want represented when going in.

[somber kettle]

My dungeon menu already feels a bit options heavy

Easy to press the wrong thing when I’m grabbing a bunch of dungeons

[teal egret]

I'm just providing the feedback that monument event mobs feel feast or famine depending on number of events going on and what event mobs are available. Riftfall had boatloads of event mobs and with riftfall + beastfelled it felt like 80% of the mobs in monument were event. Now with just beastfelled I get entire floors with 0 event mobs. Doesn't feel good.

It would thus, at least to me, make sense to try and normalize event mob representation.

[compact quiver]

It was just a 40% decrease

On average

[teal egret]

Feelsbadman

[somber kettle]

i will say i also hate hitting a floor with zero event mobs, makes the floor obsolete for me cause i'm already 20+ in guild level so guild exp is useless and monument proofs are the only reason i even do monuments these days, so no event mobs = no proofs = no motivation to monument

[compact quiver]

The amount of times I've seen an empty floor is very low, compared to the amount of floors I climb

I'll do them again and see how many empty floors I get from 80 floors climbed

[teal egret]

Am guild lvl 60, I do a lot of monument. The pacing changes between events isn't fun.

Just did one since reading nya's comment. 6 dead floors, 7 including boss, 5 floors with 1 event pack, total of 45 tokens. During riftfall I was making 90-140/monument.

Feast or famine.

[compact quiver]

Seems to match mine

4 dead floors, and 6 floors with 1 event pack counting boss floor

[teal egret]

Just wana clarify that I don't necessarily think the numbers just reported is bad, more so that the variance between the experience stated now and the experience from when riftfall was going, or when wyrm and Phoenix was going is too high.

Its the variance

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-mcmillan-too-damn-high-high-gif-10410151

[little stag]

The same can be said about most content: there were so many kingdom raids to do last week now there are practically none! Summon Scrolls feel wasteful right now. Normal dungeons are boring now, overworld bosses are unexciting now (especially for mid tiers) making leveling a lot slower. Beastiaries and monumental shop aren't even worth checking!

[lusty terrace]

I'm kinda ok with this. It means I don't NEED to do monuments all the time. I'd get bored if every event was a monument walk. Now don't get me wrong. I do love monuments. But I kinda like that I am not expected to just grind monuments all the time.

[lusty terrace]

Yeah, I kinda wish they had the Dioscurri event back but just make sure it was AFTER riftall. I don't remember the original timeline but I think it was all combined?

[little stag]

Discouri was suppose to start the 10th. Sad we don't have it atm, but devs i believe said the event is getting revamped - so thats cool. This end of month is a bit dead, especially since we got the arisen waygate way early in the month.

[half island]

I'm happy

This has been a mental month

[compact quiver]

Honestly yeah

Double wyrm runs, phoenix, and winter wild hunts

The burnout level is over 9000

[willow dew]

Same, I am thankful to have some slower periods after all the high activity periods - normally January was a nice recovery month, but didnt feel that way this year

[compact quiver]

I doubt it was for many with a 2 week wyrmhunt

[sweet agate]

Here are my most recent thoughts about monuments and how they feel after some more completion. TLDR : more focused rewards and some bad luck protection at the cost of re-enter cooldown.

Easy change that would make monuments more enjoyable (no feeling like a waste of time) :

• Guaranteed to have at least 1 floor guardian being event mobs.
• Last floor boss guaranteed to be event boss if exists.

More complex changes :

• Have a shop like deep dungeons to trade you monument coins for scroll craft materials (with a limited number per monument completion, based on total fights you've done to give every fight a purpose even none event fights)
• Deep dungeon teleportation from map.

Those changes should come at the price of a longer monument cooldown (really not a fan of the 1h cooldown which makes monuments more like a couch activity now).

[teal egret]

I run monuments with only 1 concord. 3 hrs feels right.

Also, gives me time to choose to do em.

[midnight rapids]

I don't like the 20 proof = 1 karma rounded up system. The fact that I have to one-by-one forfeit everything to make the best use out of it is an absolute chore

[little stag]

so round down to zero would be more fair?

[vestal wolf]

You don't have to forfeit 1 by 1, and it's not rounded, it accumulates

So, if you forfeit an item and it's not enough, karma doesn't click, but when you forfeit an item which adds enough for the previously accumulated 20-threshold, it will add karma

[midnight rapids]

So it holds a hidden value formed by previously forfeited items?

[compact quiver]

If I understand correctly, yes
I did not understand correctly

[midnight rapids]

And this information isn't available to the player anywhere?

[pliant moat]

is this a recent change, cus that's not how it worked last I checked

[vestal wolf]

There has been a blip between yes and yes, which caused that recent idea that items need to be forfeited one by one separately