#04/22/2026 Update Pre-Announcement

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

strange adder
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just aint gonna bother anymore

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only ever going to be seen as wrong here just cuz i play the class

fading snow
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The ignore is the biggest issue tho

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Also

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What kind of minute has 75 seconds

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ALSO a theoretical time of 38-39min is actually in line if not still on the higher end of +12s of regular dps classes without egregiously high ignore

safe notch
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That would also be before being rebalanced for values more suitable for the lower ignore %s

fading snow
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Yeah its funny that they could literally keep all %s the same and she'd still be on the faster end of times for non super super high ignore classes lol

safe notch
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Not to mention a lot of the time spent in there is non skippable mechs or cutscenes anyway

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Where the time for that wouldnt change depending on your dmg

strange adder
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ill just kill myself

fading snow
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Brother that was a joke

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I addressed the rest after lol

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just to vibe a little bit let me grab the fastest times of +12s on classes without super high ignore

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CU: 41:27
Devi: 39:55
Shakti: 41:50
RI: 41:31
MO: 42:47

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just a couple 'cause im

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far too lazy to search the entire board

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but a hypothetical time of 39:15 which would be EtW's time if they dropped the ignore and did nothing else is actually still on the higher end of most dps classes

fallow sequoia
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(shakti does have pierce and ignore)

fading snow
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Not an egregiously high amount iirc

fallow sequoia
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not good ignore but pierce makes up for it

fading snow
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not 100% for free with 0 downsides type ignore

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but yea true

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and those are some of the better ones

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and then u have classes like lib and aps who are 50min and 1h18min(aps is +11 though, hypothetical +12 time probs like 1h5min maybe)

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xddddd

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they likely would rebalance etw's %s if they nerfed her ignore, but she would actually be on the faster end even if they did nothing else but nerf her ignore

fallow sequoia
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even if they for some reason completely removed the skill, the class is still, at worse, above average

fading snow
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LOL honestly yeah probably

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highkey appalled that they didnt touch her ignore at all

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i think the tiny % nerf is gonna do absolutely nothing

safe notch
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Just for reference on the first week of HE

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Etw was the fastest clear at around 25min

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The next fastest was 35 or so

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Around 35 or 36 for like bq

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Cet

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Most decent classes were floating around the 42-46min mark

strange adder
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tbh yall are right

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just kill etw

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make her stack bravery now

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get rid of HA2 while we are at it

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its what yall want clearly

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shoot her in the foot

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shoot her in the head

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yall dont care so why should i anymore

sharp bison
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I feel almost like it's also really hard for devs to properly see Henir HE data and determine how well the class is doing since Kapow can be walled. Think there was that one week with the two 21-3 phases, 20-5-1 and something else that wasn't super big boss but because they could all be walled EtW was still having an amazing time while all the other big bossers suffered extra hard. KOG unfortunately doesn't have a good track record of taking any kind of nuance into account so there's a chance they go really overboard with the nerfs.

sharp bison
fading snow
# strange adder just kill etw

Not at all what's being said, but i do think it's funny that a hypothetically "killed" etw is still at worst above average

fading snow
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Hated every second of it

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LOL

strange adder
safe notch
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Its crazy how asking for a class to be tuned down from beyond god tier to S or A tier is asking to kill a class but alright

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I dont think its particularly good balance when one class is clearing 44% faster than literally every other S tier class in the game

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Every single rotation

fading snow
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Also im pretty sure kapow would still be her prio even if it were dropped to 50-60% ignore

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You'd have to truly gut it to 30 maybe or just delete the skill entirely to force her to swap to brav again im pretty sure

safe notch
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We've seen etw do 2:xx 15-6-3 challenge solo deal

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Which is a small boss and non wall stacked

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Which btw literally no other class in the game has ever done

strange adder
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then what do yall propose

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cuz ive clearly just got too many bricks in my brain to think of anything useful here

fading snow
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The tldr is the ignore is the massive issue as is with several other classes, nerfing the ignore while buffing the skills damage% if necessary would bring her more in line with other classes

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With the state of endgame content right now, high ignore is broken on any class that has it

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Why the fastest clear times are consistently

strange adder
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kog wont increase the %s tho

fading snow
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Type classes

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The ones with 90%+ ignore

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EtW is just the biggest offender with flat out 100

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Thats why I said if necessary, 'cause based on the math and times, she actually would still be quite above average even if they didn't

strange adder
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or worse yet theyll make kapow not interact with walls and actually kill the class

safe notch
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I find it wild you think any single thing will kill the class

safe notch
strange adder
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chal is also 8 man and 3 years old

fading snow
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I don't think any class should have 90%+ ignore on their main skills esp considering the meta we're moving into

safe notch
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How does that have anything to do with what we're talking about

fading snow
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Or everyone should have it xdddd

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One or the other unironically 'cause everyone being broken is still leagues better balancing than where it's at now

strange adder
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cuz with the new plan to remove walls and drop ignore

safe notch
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Uh huh

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Well HE is current content

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And she is also a problem there

strange adder
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kapow goes down to a 6k% skill on humanoid bosses

idle silo
fading snow
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Give every class 90%+ ignore

safe notch
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I do hope you realize you're arguing against data that proves otherwise

fading snow
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I only think the ignore is busted

strange adder
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i am extermely stupid thanks for reminding me

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its been suggested several times here

safe notch
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And its not like etw cant just cast her main skill 4x in a row

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Get a reset and do it again

fading snow
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Ok so it was before I started yapping then

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Fair

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I think the walls are fine enough its purely 100 ignore as a concept that is genuinely insane to me

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Is my pov

safe notch
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I think wall stacking projectiles are kinda just dumb and unfun to play at times

strange adder
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so just etw

fallow sequoia
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even if you remove the wall kapow part, you still have mixsys for small bossing

strange adder
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mixsys is garbage

safe notch
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Ykw yea just etw

fallow sequoia
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and there's other classes that can use walls to boss better, just not on their main skill

safe notch
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We can just delete etw from the game

fading snow
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Mixsys is still better than everything Liberator has for small bossing btw

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xddddd

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Among many other classes

fallow sequoia
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how's mixsys a bad skill

strange adder
strange adder
fallow sequoia
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it's higher % than kapow

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with 50% ignore

strange adder
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yea i know what my own skills do

safe notch
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You do know that they removed wall stacking on mtm's space distortion specifically cuz it was abusable for people to get 0 cds

strange adder
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it also takes 2-3 seconds to cast

safe notch
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Before it was reworked

fallow sequoia
strange adder
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and only does ~25k%

safe notch
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'Only 25k'

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Is higher than most small boss skills

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Btw

fading snow
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Hi I play a class where his main small bossing is 19k% with only 30 ignore that i have to space for and the boss can move out of it and drop it to like 9k, certain bosses also refuse to let me space for it

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So idk man

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Mixsys sounds pretty good to me

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LOL

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Maybe thats just lib is an unreal level of bad though

safe notch
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Idk man ce's small boss skills cap at like 16k% and 8k% respectively

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While also getting 0 passives

fading snow
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Nyx's caps out at 14k but hes a support so that's not real

safe notch
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And its not like i can cast it 3x in a row

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Like etw can

strange adder
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fr just remove HA2

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grey bar etw moments are gonna be so back

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she doesnt deserve anything atp

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just remove command skills too

fading snow
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Hmm

flint bear
safe notch
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Yea true

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Delete etw from the game

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Sounds good to me

strange adder
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ive already done raids with her V key active

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actual hell

safe notch
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It would certainly help the discussion a little if you actually tried to comprehend the stuff we're saying tbh

strange adder
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sorry i cant ur speaking is too high level for me

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bricks for brains remember?

safe notch
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Ive only mentioned decreasing the ignore and removing wall stacking while increasing the %s of the skills

fading snow
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Oh it was you who mentioned the wall stacking

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I see

safe notch
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Everything else is to cover what she still has but alright

fading snow
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I dont even mind the wall stacking its just the ignore for me, which applies to like 5 classes, etw just being the biggest offender as the only one who reaches flat out 100%

strange adder
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and you know for a dam fact that kog will only see the problem of 100% ignore and slap that

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no recompence

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cuz why would they

fallow sequoia
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if they just reduce the 100% ignore and do nothing else with the class

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she'll still be fine tho

strange adder
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she quite wont be

fallow sequoia
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she won't be as broken as she currently is

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but she'll still be a good class

idle silo
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ziro u don’t get it
If a class isn’t god tier she’s bad

safe notch
idle silo
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🥀

fading snow
strange adder
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i just like the idea that my main dmg skill would be chunked by roughly 1/3 with no compensation

fading snow
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Is above most classes not fine? hmmge

strange adder
safe notch
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Even your hypotheticals need to be based off of something right

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You need some form of data to base off of before you can make an estimate

fading snow
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Im still going based on this hypothetical 1.5x time increase based on the data of damage lost, and even this hypothetical time increase for a +12 etw is still faster than +12s of most other classes

safe notch
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Also dont forget a decent chunk of that time is just

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Cutscenes and mechs

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That wont increase time as you lose dmg

gleaming briar
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delete etw

strange adder
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just a question then

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how many of yall actively go to a wall when you have an etw dps

sharp bison
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All the time.

idle silo
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^

fallow sequoia
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depends on the dungeon/how much the etw cares about it

sharp bison
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Or at least, whenever I'm in a party with one I'm instructed to group at the wall.

fallow sequoia
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but usually yes

safe notch
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Literally whenever they request and it its worth it for the party

idle silo
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most of the time if there’s an etw in my party they ask for wall

safe notch
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Which usually is whenever there is one

idle silo
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and/or they’re main dps

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so

sharp bison
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I don't party with EtW often because I'm not close with those players but every time I have it's happened.

strange adder
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then yall are much nicer people then everyone ive run with

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any time i ask for wall they just ignore

scarlet quest
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if etw with 0 gear asks the party to do dps hell no im not going to a wall

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but if there is an actually built dps then sure why not

strange adder
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the issue with HE is that you can actually control where the boss goes

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without having to rely on the whims on 5 other people

sharp bison
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My own experiences might not particularly count then because all of the times I've been with EtWs were premades with friend groups and I was either a replacement for a missing static member or got picked up from Magmelia when a good chunk of the party were friends with each other already.

safe notch
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You can quite easily get the boss to the wall in HE

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As the bosses literally just follow you

fading snow
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I need the boss to stop following me

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Let me space :c

scarlet quest
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same

safe notch
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You can do the same in raids as long as people are on board with the idea

strange adder
safe notch
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The ai is basically the same

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Itll just follow a random person

sharp bison
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If the argument is to therefore ensure that EtW is still fine in parties where you can't guarantee walled targets when they're wallable while also getting rid of the walling part of Kapow (to make it not as ridiculous) then I think the best compromise is to make the projectile a lot slower but make it no longer wallable.

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This would kill it for clearing if that matters which I'm genuinely not aware of since I don't know the class well.

safe notch
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I think the simplest course of action is to lower ignore and make non wall stackable but increase raw dmg

fading snow
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I am inclined to believe she'll be fine clearing wise esp since they gave laby bomb random suction

sharp bison
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Okay that was the fattest edit of a lifetime and for that I am sorry for brain fart

sharp bison
idle silo
scenic skiffBOT
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mochichob has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

strange adder
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smoked

idle silo
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oh gg censored

fading snow
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My goat is censored

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:c

idle silo
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yeah bc I can’t space for doodoo

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🥀

strange adder
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and no i am completely unable to enter HE

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~18m cp short atm

sharp bison
idle silo
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it’s ok I got my k*y and dipped

safe notch
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Yo be careful about mentioning that k*y you're gonna start another riot

strange adder
idle silo
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cuz the AI is still kinda wonky

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it’s easier to get boss to go to a wall but if ur class needs to space it’s just kinda xd

idle silo
strange adder
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i mean i wasnt talking about any other class other than etw

idle silo
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accessory that shall not be named

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etw mogs like every other class in HE

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and even if she got her ignore def removed she’d prob still clear faster than most classes

safe notch
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Its not even 'like' every other class

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It quite literally is every other class

idle silo
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Gg

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Yumi I have an alternate proposal

safe notch
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Etw is roughly 7-10 min faster than the 2nd fastest class on any given week

idle silo
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Instead of nerfing etw

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give everyone 100% ignore def

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insta cast

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Thoughts

fallow sequoia
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?

idle silo
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?

safe notch
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?

idle silo
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?

scarlet quest
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yo I think etw is too strong

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so we should nerf ras

safe notch
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Yo i cant wait to be slinging around 100% ignore instant cast cu skills

idle silo
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if every class gets buffed that means I can clear content and get off the game faster!

scarlet quest
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-probably some kog employee

idle silo
safe notch
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Jokes aside

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As I've been talking about

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Etw is quite literally leagues ahead of every other class in the game

strange adder
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fr bq been out of the #1 dps spotlight apparently for too long
need to nerf etw to the ground

safe notch
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And its mostly due to the 100 ignore

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So do you think bq should be nerfed

strange adder
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according to you then no

safe notch
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Way to dodge the question

strange adder
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ty

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now your turn

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should cu be buffed

safe notch
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And i also never said bq was not overtuned

fading snow
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I think cu should be buffed

safe notch
fading snow
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Give her 200% ignore and 300k%

strange adder
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way to dodge the question

idle silo
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y.y

idle silo
fading snow
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boof cu y.y

safe notch
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I'm certainly not playing the class that is 10 mins ahead of everyone else

strange adder
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then thats ur fault

idle silo
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?

fading snow
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Lost at char select

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Rip

safe notch
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True

idle silo
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I can’t believe we lost at char select ts so tuff

scarlet quest
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yea like

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it's your fault for being born in north korea

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it's your fault for being a german when hitler was alive

strange adder
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straight to racism

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impressive

safe notch
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This is just ragebait atp ngl

strange adder
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yea obv

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since like an hour ago

safe notch
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Im talking about you but alright

scarlet quest
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what in that statement is racism?

strange adder
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yea ik

scarlet quest
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im just following ur logic

strange adder
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i dont think you were born with a class in els

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you can just choose another

scarlet quest
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yea you can also choose to escape north korea

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

strange adder
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interesting strawman but alright

scarlet quest
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can't argue against your own logic ig

safe notch
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I think im just gonna leave it at that

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Dont feel like getting banned so ill just leave it to the people who have a functional brain to think for themselves about the data presented

strange adder
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good

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still trying to figure how picking a main is els is akin to being born

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but idt that pertains much to the 4/22 update

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so idk why u brought it up

scarlet quest
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

strange adder
scarlet quest
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he definitely seems smarter than you

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from what I read

strange adder
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thats why i said that

scarlet quest
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good to know that we agree

strange adder
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ty north korea supporter

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o7

scarlet quest
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im korean so I actually do support them

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o7

sleek spoke
idle silo
sharp bison
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On the topic of the whole defence ignore being problematic balance-wise between solo and party content, this makes me wonder how partial KOG would be to reducing Henir HE's defence. It'll improve everyone's clear times, lessen the gap between classes with and without defence ignore (especially at high amounts), reduce the reliance on wind orb burst windows and hopefully make people not feel like they have to cope by wall swapping.

sleek spoke
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it's a reasonable and clever solution, however, that's just what kog hates, so that's why they're not doing that Smugnia

sharp bison
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My class currently has no defence ignore and I feel especially sad whenever I lose track of mech timers, throw a wind orb and off the boss goes and I can't take advantage of my wind orb.

sharp bison
sleek spoke
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they will be heard, but not listened

sharp bison
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This also makes me wonder how much KR complains/says bad things about Henir HE in general since they have much more participation in it + clear times are faster on average due to higher average level of gear and they're two IBs ahead of us.
It's all doom and gloom here but I hope KR is complaining just as hard too.

safe notch
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I really do hope kr complains because personally i dont like the direction the game is headed but all one can do is hope right

wise badger
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interesting

glass musk
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Holy ragebait

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I think etw deserves a ignore nerf without compensation tho lol

wise badger
fading snow
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considering the math on her HE times im ngl thats fair

covert arch
# safe notch I really do hope kr complains because personally i dont like the direction the g...

haha, Yeah. I think this is the most accurate statement in this entire thread. Being a returning player that has gotten mad about patches before, left, come back, found a new patch to annoy me, left, come back (not really sure how I keep getting sucked back in), rinse and repeat... If there's one thing I have learned over the years it's that KOG really doesn't seem to even look at what the NA community says, let alone listen to it and make changes based off of it. Just go with the flow and and say "change is the spice of life", because any other approach doesn't matter here 🤣

kind fulcrum
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The fact is KR and most other Asian servers have a decent amount of people running around with full 18% circs and way more gear, which closes the gap in HE clear time, as Yumi mentioned lots of unskippable cutscenes, etc. So I bet kog actually thinks the difference isn't that big between classes. I don't know if we should have people participate in the test server from other servers.

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Does NA even have any full 18%s?

covert nova
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we had some that were close but i believe those players mostly quit

craggy mortar
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everything being measured according to kr's strength as benchmark when we know: 1) IM/ED prices in NA makes it prohibitively expensive to have comparable gear (so on the whole there are less players with highend gear), 2) they are two ib rotations ahead of us which usually chalks up to ~8-10% damage that we just don't have, 3) kr specifically has a pc cafe buff which is around 5% damage increase

which, if i add it roughly, adds up to like a 10-15% diff altogether-- almost an enhancement level of difference. kr (and other servers with more favorable economies) are hitting levels of damage we'd never see for 6+ months. and class diff isn't as obvious when players are geared enough to obliterate the content. kr gets "balanced" around this clear speed, and then we receive the same balance and since we're not anywhere as geared as kr, a class gap that looks tiny in kr suddenly widens. slower classes that can't keep up with kr's clear speed and seem "weaker" by kr standards are suddenly solid or even broken in NA. maybe the reason why etw seems balanced in kr is cuz runs go too fast to let her use all 20 of her kapow casts during greens

idk if we have any real solution for the ib rotation delay and i don't want to discuss the economy here, but there's no reason we shouldn't have an equivalent of the pc cafe buff.

i also feel like balance patches shouldn't be done by letting players loose on a test server with free enhancements and seeing which +13 can race to the top of the charts. i think an approach focusing on improvement plans like last year's was more effective, because that allows mains of that class to explain their strengths/weaknesses of that class as well as pain points that can be improved. otherwise, we just get nonsense changes like damage buffs to buff skills or unused skills and nerfs that don't even address what's actually broken about the character

craggy mortar
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which ends up making the devs sound like they're not listening to the players. which you know. we know they don't listen to the players at all. they just make changes that squeezes the playerbase and then relax them again. by now i've been here long enough to witness the rise and fall of cp scaling party buffs and the cp and difficulty cliff of initial serp/doom raids where only the late endgamers could even make the cp cut on release to now where punch event newbies can just walk right in

a cycle of > squeeze the playerbase to gear up or quit > enough casual endgamers quit to start giving out generous freebies to bribe players to back and severe nerfs to content to speedrun them into endgame > squeeze them again by forcing them to actually spend money to gear up. this has always been the case but i think the cost has skyrocketed purely due to exascale (and of course this is more of a problem in na because we don't have the players for a healthy circuit supply)

the healer/synergy changes basically kills off the role that people can play without having to invest money. i don't know about kr (though i can make a few guesses) but i really doubt na has the population to handle a f2p endgamer exodus. like i think most people, even if they don't quit the game outright, will simply stop doing party content because there won't be anyone to run with anymore

gritty zealot
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The update really hurts the f2p playerbase a lot. I would be quitting endgame content if it weren't for friends who are still willing to take me for doom 😔

gritty zealot
tacit ivy
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i see inno pressing escha over roc cause they do enough to phase the boss before mp is an issue

rotund surge
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I like Phy/Mag integration, but I don't like limiting to 1 support per party. Too restrictive and counterintuitive against the 'play-whatever-you-want-with-whomever-you-want' purpose this patch is supposed to give.

sharp bison
# craggy mortar everything being measured according to kr's strength as benchmark when we know: ...

100% agreed on all of these points. In general I think the playerbase is infinitely happier whenever balance patches are done in waves and in greater detail, if said greater detail and care is not possible when doing a balance patch for the entire cast. For this patch specifically which was aimed at the entire roster eg blanket healer and synergy changes, it's understandable that the one patch changed everyone instead of focussing on a select few characters, though still unfortunate that things have turned out this way. In the future if they do release another patch without any major reverting of what happened in this patch, it would be nice to see certain objectives of this particular patch finetuned and actually achieved, ie improvement of self-sufficiency across the cast and balancing the personal damage of the classes that were previously categorised as "synergy DPS" (who, for the most part, lost their synergy but didn't actually gain any damage to make up for it, while pure DPSes mostly got a free pass). Hell, even healers could have their own patch dedicated to balancing their DPS gameplay if KOG wanted to double down on letting them be playable in solo content as this patch seems to suggest.
To add on to Sonne's point about the test server environment, it also leaves KOG to the mercy of the players that actually make it to the test server, many of which are at the very end of endgame and probably just do a couple of Doom gaunts and Henir HE runs before logging out. While balance affects endgame the most/endgame players feel balance changes the most, it completely leaves out the mid-game players that KOG has stated is where the majority of the playerbase is at. Also, this leaves a decent chunk of content that is absolutely played and yet unaccounted for simply because the players on the test server just aren't playing it, most notably regular dungeons and, as stated multiple times in this thread, Challenge Mode.

sharp bison
# craggy mortar which ends up making the devs sound like they're not listening to the players. w...

To add on to this, I know that transparency has been a running theme for what the players want for as long as I can remember, but if KOG wants to prove that they aren't doing this kind of thing in bad faith then transparency is essential. Instead we have to turn to translations of dev interviews and QnA sessions whenever they're held (usually due to boycotts), whether these translations are made by community members or machine translation, and rely on what little crumbs we can grasp that any feedback from not-KR servers has even be read at all. It's things like "other servers didn't complain about ED sinks so we decided to leave them unchanged" in response to KR players complaining about ED sinks being too high over there, "at first we concluded that the Luciel EXP/IDR bug were server-only issues for foreign servers" when addressing why the Luciel EXP and IDR bug remained for such a long time. These are not to be taken as exact quotes but they're the basic gist of certain parts of a dev QnA session held in response to I believe the boycotts of 2024? In any case, the full thing has been translated and can be read on Cobodex.
Something I wanted to add to the above message but couldn't due to character limit is that I realise that the latter point can be negated if KOG specifically says things like "the next balance patch will be focussed on raid content, so please do raids" or "the next balance patch will be focussed on Henir HE, so please focus on Henir HE". I'm not sure if that happened in this case but it would be nice to guide players in what kinds of feedback to provide as well as what things to do so that KOG can balance more effectively.

idle silo
kind fulcrum
glass musk
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Transparency is the one thing I wish higher ups at KoG address the most honestly

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It really annoys me how we get these patches with little to no transparency, nothing gets addressed either (not blaming community managers, I know you guys can’t really do much) and yeah there’s generally a translation gap too but I wish the stuff we said and the feedback threads actually got responses from the devs back to the other servers. Yeah we know they’re being sent but what are the devs thoughts? Are they taking the stuff we said into consideration? We don’t know any of this. Just overall wish there was more transparency patch wise, because it just feels like all of our thoughts don’t go addressed or are just hitting a brick wall.

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Idk there’s so many things I can say about the transparency and patch directionas well (again not blaming u raiden) but mannnn

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Feels like the game is digging itself deeper and deeper into a hole it won’t recover from

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I know feedback from this will get sent as well, but I hate the fact that we won’t get any closure on our thoughts and it also feels like (as it has been) they’ll just ignore it or focus super hard on one thing we’ve said and completely ignore the rest.

spare escarp
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Honestly I'd even be happy with a 3 sentence explanation for why certain thoughts just aren't applicable or not something KOG is interested in even if multiple concerns are lopped into it.

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Otherwise we'll probably keep going back to stuff like "100% def ignore is X and IB price that, Y skill is terrible and should be Z" every time a patch is introduced

glass musk
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Holy true

spare escarp
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and feedback continues to talk about the same stuff every few weeks

glass musk
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Every time the same arguments come up and nothing satisfying is said

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Yeah it’s hard to satisfy everyone but even then it’s not really addressed or we get hit with a 1 liner from the community manager who cant rly explain more because he isn’t allowed to

spare escarp
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I do have hope that some concerns are being listened to and implemented even with this patch itself introducing some other nice QOL stuff

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like something I mentioned being fixed in this patch (certain stats like continuous damage, reset chance etc. being displayed in the stats window)

fading snow
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it's nice to know that raiden is forwarding things to the higher ups but

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past that we know nothing, all we can do is have faith

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and thats kinda disheartening peepodepressed

kind fulcrum
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Honestly should have KR players come to NA and see for themselves our struggles. Maybe they will see how some classes are just out right leagues ahead with the same gear.

reef wigeon
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Had a Kr player come to NA once to play with a friend and he complained about everything lol

obsidian oriole
obsidian oriole
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@scarlet quest except she's still tied for 1st place in missing the most stuff in her kit even after "support homogeny"

finite furnace
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Lemme throw this to etw fire

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Thats +11 void wep etw

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At no wall dungeon

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With small boss

fading snow
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LOL

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i love my +11 void weap etw doing close to +11 s5 udw cc

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(this is no shade to vergil ik hes good, its just funny that etw can do that)

finite furnace
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I m +12 ca

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Yeah I m pretty much stack up damage in fast dungeon

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But yeah still

fading snow
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i love when my +11 void weap etw can deal 60% of +12 udw ca

finite furnace
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Tonio is one of the best pilots I ve ever seen

fading snow
finite furnace
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But yeah dont tell me etw isnt broken

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Thats like bq mains trying to justify them dodging nerfs for 4 years

fading snow
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oh im not denying tonio's piloting either its just funny regardless of pilot that +11 void etw can get that close to +11 and +12 udws

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4 weapons behind...

finite furnace
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And he dropped the force btw KekDoggo

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Void weapon luck

fading snow
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i think if he tried it on like a vos he might actually win

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which is also a very funny concept

fading snow
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maybe i should run on void weap...

finite furnace
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Mhm

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Ace u re not one of 4 horseman of apocalypse

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It doesnt work on you bonk

fading snow
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true peepodepressed

glass musk
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Nah don’t listen to that etw guy lol

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20m cp talking about endgame balance

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Unreal

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I could go on but blah blah

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I just want more transparency and the healer consolidation to be reverted or done in a better way (mostly just reverted)

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Why ruin class identity

glass musk
glass musk
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What is the reasoning for all of these decisions

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There’s a lot to be desired

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I think a game like epic seven does the balance transparency not perfectly, but a lot better (for example https://page.onstove.com/epicseven/global/view/12254577 for their 3/12 balance patch). There’s actual clear reasoning behind every change to help each unit in the games current meta. Elsword you don’t really have any of that transparency or any of those thought processes shown.

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At least our patches should generally follow something like this, compared to like the one liners we get if any at all. A lot of elsword patches recently leave us just confused on the direction they’re going or why some things are being changed at all

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I also might be slightly addicted to e7 but I digress

sharp bison
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To add on, a good amount of time they'll tell us the general direction of the patch and then the patch just fails to do exactly what it set out to do. Some synergy DPS classes got good things this patch like OP and RV but plenty of others got left in the dust, some got improvements to CDR/CDA passives to compensate the removal of all party CDA except the 1.2x from healers and a good amount of classes didn't even get enough.

severe nimbus
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Let’s not bring KR crab mentality into NA 💔

glass musk
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What does that even mean

glass musk
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But asking for transparency for years is like something we shouldn’t even have to ask for so gg

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Bro rly came in on an alt account dropped a 1 liner without explanation and left

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Anyways

finite furnace
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I didnt understand it either

spare escarp
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the "if I can't escape neither can you" mentality is what crab mentality is

glass musk
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And ah

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Yeah that’s the etw player bro

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No one is saying that

spare escarp
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nah I ain't gotta bother with alts I want the people to know me!

glass musk
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Except that 20m cp etw

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🤣

tiny gust
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buff FP

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and game is balanced

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trust

glass musk
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Yeah ok

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Anyways back on track

tiny gust
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nerf ES

glass musk
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Would be sooooooo cool

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And nice

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To see the thought process behind changes

spare escarp
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yeah I'd appreciate stuff like that, or even stuff like League of Legends/Destiny or whatever does for patch notes just giving a 2-3 sentence justification like "We feel like X's jungle clear times are a bit slow so we're bumping that up to bring them in line."

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even something like that for a class would suffice for me

tiny gust
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patches in league of legends explain why they do things on a champion as an example

glass musk
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Even just a simple 1-3 sentence thing would work, doesn’t have to be a whole paragraph like how epic seven does

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I agree fully

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Just anything to see the thought process

spare escarp
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first thing I see looking at a league patch and it's all I really want

image.png
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is something like that

glass musk
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Yeah something like that works too as well

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Be creative with it

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As long as we can see a thought process behind it there really isn’t any complaints

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Unless the thought process behind the patch is flawed but that’s an issue for a specific patch itself, not the idea

spare escarp
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And to be clear, at least in my head, I don't have an issue with the general system changes/additions like QOL or new systems. Those are usually explained in the patch notes KOG leaves us, I mostly ask for that same mindset be applied to character specific changes.

glass musk
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Cuz what we have now is just a small paragraph for all the characters that get changed and it’s very underwhelming because usually it’s full of questionable balances

glass musk
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Nice transparency on it, along with a qna session being held. Those I have no issues with really, just the balance directions themselves is an ongoing issue

spare escarp
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yeah I'd really take anything at this point lol

tiny gust
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just to know and i dont yap

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what is this feedback channel about?

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can i give ideas on how to improve centurion?

glass musk
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The upcoming patch that includes healer consolidation etc

spare escarp
tiny gust
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okay...

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hey GMs get ready for a paragraph

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after i wake up tomorrow of course

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most of my feedback is about fixing pvp and pve passives

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for most chars

spare escarp
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At some point I plan to open a player feedback thread separately to try and see if I can bring some attention to my class and my personal gripes with BQ and I'd encourage people competent in their character to do something similar if they wish to do so.

glass musk
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Complain about es instead pls

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Jk but yea

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But not here

spare escarp
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Personally I have 0 care for that character if i'm being real 💀

glass musk
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Elsword suggestions prob works better for allat

tiny gust
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as #2 centurion player in NA

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i have good ideas to improve cent man

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and also since parties are going to shift to solo healer

spare escarp
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I will probably wait at least 2 weeks after this patch is live to see how this patch plays out and develop my thoughts

tiny gust
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ye\

spare escarp
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and I hope I can contribute to a future patch that can smooth things out

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at least with ideas

scarlet quest
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I think either way it's just better for the game

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it's better than just guessing what the developers are trying to do because we can suggest an alternate solution if their approach is flawed

glass musk
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I agree

glass musk
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cough healer consolidation cough

tiny gust
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i dont think doing a huge text wall at the top of the patch really explains a lot

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sure u can say we are balancing arround this content

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but some skill changes are just outside of the content

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i dont like that

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just say in 2 - 3 lines why

glass musk
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Or you know

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Do it like how e7 does it

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With each unit they put an explanation on their changes

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Next to the unit

glass musk
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And then we look at the changes and are confused

finite furnace
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I mean they released mp regen ib after healer changes DeadPaimon

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I think intention is quite clear

sharp bison
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I know the CP changes hasn't really been discussed a lot here but mostly because there's no details on what it is exactly, with the only data we have going off is what KR has revealed about it (ie all CP getting cut by around a factor of 10). I have a feeling that KR hasn't made that much noise about it either mostly because there's so much more to talk about regarding the balance patch.
The only concern I have in the CP change regard is that there's a chance that players who can currently enter Henir HE might not be able to enter Henir HE after the CP change if the decrease by a factor of 10 is to be taken as literally as possible (since Henir HE's CP requirement went from 45m to 5m rather than 4.5m). If this kind of thing hasn't happened in KR then I don't really have that much else to say about it.

scarlet quest
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I think most people gained slightly more than the expected number

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Idk if there was any cases that people wasn't able to enter after the patch even though they were able to before the patch

gritty zealot
spare escarp
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I'd rather hope I don't have to waste more time swapping a 5/5 IB

gaunt eagle
# gritty zealot did you mean herd mentality....?

crab mentality refers to "crabs in a bucket". it's a behavior crabs contained inside a bucket exhibit: when one of them is about to exit the bucket, the other crab(s) drag it down so that it doesn't leave

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i believe they might be refering to past patches that the kr playerbase received with negativity and got some changes in them adjusted (the change done to the party asd in exascale is one such example that comes to mind)

gritty zealot
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ahh i see, thanks for explaining! 🧡

sharp bison
safe notch
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Iirc it got changed from 0.95x to 0.7x so

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Theres that too

craggy mortar
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that was for test server only

safe notch
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Oh

ashen sigil
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I'll make the next one after the patch hits

rare prairie
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honesly if they keep this meta solo sup were cooked when new raid come, imejin if sup perma when ppl still blind run there is gonna endless re, 2 support is more do able to learn raid if one perm another 1 can backup atleast party still can learning some pattern

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i didnt say we only can bring 1 support on next meta but 2 support is less efficient cause buff cant overleap

glass musk
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Usually for first clears too parties are made to be really efficient as well so having the 1 healer will kinda turn off a lot of people

sharp bison
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Also on top of the fact that they're the only healer so if they die then the party is at the mercy of the boss. If they wipe then you basically have to restart.

vagrant surge
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*sorry its not feedback I just cant resist

5sn657-2769325036.jpg
sleek spoke
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LOL

ashen sigil
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World record of 60 dislikes

foggy solar
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Waiting for that day when 3.5k suggestion did nothing to the patch

dawn kettle
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so real

plush vortex
fading snow
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So I think the argument holds up

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Kinda surprised theyre not considering the time tho lol

plush vortex
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the time can change a lot if u play safer which many ppl do, some just know the limits of their character and can do whatever

wise badger
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pretty sure people play less safe now that they figured out when they can greed for damage

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at least that's what I do now

safe notch
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Im p sure im the only +12 cu who runs HE in na and i havent run

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This week

fading snow
fading snow
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Greeding

wise badger
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„breeding“

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ok buddy

fading snow
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Autocorrect at the worst time...

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LOL

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The amount of greeding I did on lib might be why it took me 3 hours of wipes to do

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LOL

safe notch
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Yea thats +11

safe notch
fading snow
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Interesting hmmge kinda surprised, but i still think the hypothetical time of ~6min faster is within the realm of a nerfed etw time for the sake of that argument

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But that's a long since passed topic

safe notch
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I wish i could run this week but i cant even log

fading snow
glass musk
fading snow
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Yeye I heard

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Did not hear the last part tho

glass musk
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He may be an old man

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But he’s still my little boy

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😉

wise badger
fading snow
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Can I be your little boy

sharp bison
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I also just hope Henir HE times are not taken too much to heart by KOG because the mode is so expensive that it's fairly wasteful to try again for a better time.

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Pretty much every week I look at my time and get ragebaited but I don't have the funds and energy to improve my times.

glass musk
glass musk
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I play super safe when I run

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So

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My times r gonna be bad

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Cuz I don’t wanna mess up and die at the end cuz I’m not paying attention like I did last week xd!!

safe notch
safe notch
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So safe that people watching get heart attacks

fading snow
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which by the way another fun fact HE is like, basically THE ONLY content where the nerf would hit her that hard, her damage in most other content probably wouldn't even change that much

tacit ivy
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im seeing <20 minute runs +12's outside of etw

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LuHmmShimo the dmg is unreal

sleek spoke
fading snow
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LOL

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that was autocorrect

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my phone autocorrecting greeding to breeding is insane ngl

glass musk
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Anyways

safe notch
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That wasnt autocorrect

sleek spoke
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yooo YOOOOO...

craggy mortar
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AI summary: ... meanwhile some players are talking about...

spare escarp
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Truly I hope GSAs get changed in the future to make rerunning for better times less expensive

tacit ivy
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maybe make it 2 minutes like fighters

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and give every class innate super armor idk

kind fulcrum
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Also looking at the balance changes, among all the syn dps changes. All of them seem to get some number adjustments and some self buff to replace removed def shred. But why does RV alone get an extra 20% phy atk that doesn't replace anything? Are there any other syn dps that also get a flat 20% atk buff?

tacit ivy
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not that i saw

craggy mortar
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i think rv kind of needed it since he was the only phys syn dps that still did really low damage

kind fulcrum
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Ayo whatdehedge

craggy mortar
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but yea opf just got cooldown adjustments and cast speed increases

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and def ignore. pretty sure its enough to put him over ri

gritty zealot
finite furnace
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ES COUGH

gritty zealot
finite furnace
gritty zealot
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Sadge

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They'll make it unuseable in all raids as well 🔥 🔥 🔥 🗣️

tacit ivy
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nah fr though

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super armor elixir should've been a thing ages ago

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LuHmmShimo cc in rosso and berthe

finite furnace
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Classes with superarmor sipping their drinks counting the ed they didnt spend on gsa

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They should just release new guild food ngl

gritty zealot
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They should buff the duration of healthy bulky juice to 30 seconds !!!!!

tacit ivy
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buff ultimate dinner set to include super armor

gritty zealot
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^^^^

tacit ivy
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🔥 save on gsas in exchange for 5% atk

finite furnace
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I d still use hdp for dmg ngl

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Make new food which is made from 3 set

gritty zealot
tacit ivy
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same

finite furnace
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Hdp + uds + whatever is last

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New guild update when

finite furnace
ashen sigil
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If gsa gonna be this mandatory they should make obtaining them easier

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Or improve the duration

wraith mica
craggy mortar
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well what i said doesn't apply to after patch

ripe tapir
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support population bout to drop by 500%

real kernel
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This is unfortunate. I've been losing interest in this game for a while now, this patch reduced AV's terrible party support to almost nothing. I love her playstyle but I guess I'll just have to build a DA or SU, which I find incredibly boring. Oh well.

tacit ivy
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it's just movespeed, max mp and super armor that's limited to the vow'ed

gritty zealot
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6-7 more hours btw 🥀 🥀 🥀 🥀 🥀

sleek spoke
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it has been a good run fellas

gritty zealot
safe notch
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6 7

flint bear