GURPS

[mighty hinge]

https://i.imgur.com/SaHh2M2.png

(this is specifically a vintage pump-fire paintball gun, basically the OG granddaddy of paintball but the effect on target is basically identical)

[limber mason]

Gurps Combat Sports wjen

[mighty hinge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4qDA00Wtr0

[limber mason]

As seen in friday the 13th

[mighty hinge]

also honestly i think GURPS Combat Sports is just regular GURPS except 1. you have to build a mostly normal person and probably <100 points 2. you otherwise have to abide by the actual rules of the relevant game

[compact garden]

2 dollars per silver BB is still cheaper than some rifle ammo

[mighty hinge]

yeah

you'd even want to retain injury and hit location because they still do damage and "got hit in the fucking eyes or neck or junk" is a meaningful event

[limber mason]

You can also reuse a bb pretty easily

The recovery i imagine is easier than an arrow

[mighty hinge]

assuming you can get it back yeah

they arent fast enough to deform under impact generally (though silver is softer than steel)

[limber mason]

Is it stronger than plastic

[mighty hinge]

plastic BBs deform quite readily

even just handling them too roughly can mess them up

also rules question; am i correct in thinking the way this works is; DR 1+ gets multiplied, DR 0 becomes DR 1 and does not get multiplied
https://i.imgur.com/rJwcCN3.png

[compact garden]

Yeah I think so

[spiral linden]

That's my reading of it too

[mighty hinge]

okay good, otherwise the paintball gun literally couldnt hurt you

(because DR 0->1 / 0.2 = DR 5 and then 1d-3 damage maxes at 3)

but against regular clothing or bare skin its up to 2 damage, which makes more sense

[limber mason]

Yeah that's my read too

Or if i were to reformat this

[mighty hinge]

i guess for Combat Sports you'd want to allow fractional DR as well, for various levels of gear

so DR 0.6 to protect fully against paintballs

and DR 2 to protect against the Red Ryder and other steel pellet guns

(probably around 1 for plastic BBs, especially at higher velocities)

[limber mason]

I'd say "if the original dr of thr target is zero, they instead treat their final modified DR as 1 (no multiplication)"

[mighty hinge]

yeah

[spiral linden]

Now I wonder if someone has ran an American Gladiators-type game in GURPS

[limber mason]

Almost certainly

Gurps freaks are wild

[mighty hinge]

actually wait hold on i just had a very funny idea

[limber mason]

Yes?

[spiral linden]

Also note to self: Make a template for inklings/octolings

[limber mason]

Woomy

Uhh power of transformation, movement for ink, fashion sense

Actually that should just be a wildcard skill called Stylin!

And that's music, fashion and TV

[mighty hinge]

the TL9 Sealed Combat Armor (incl. helmet) as DR 30 on the weakest parts, accounting for the effects of critical hits (up to triple damage), that means it can protect against up to 10 points, max on 2d-2 or 3d+2(0.5)

TL9+ combat sports with real (but weak) firearms

.45 ACP from the 1911 is 2d pi+
.22 LR is typically around 1d or 1d+1 pi-, 1d+2 if its a rifle
Buckshot pellets are usually 1d or 1d+1 pi
modern rifles generally start at 4d but thats with full power loads

and frangible ammo is an easy way to get (0.5) without making them significantly more dangerous

i mean obviously they make actual less-lethal rounds but i think the point here is the (controlled) danger

and also the level of acceptable weaponry increases as available armor improves as well

i think the Commando Battlesuit (weakest is DR 75) is probably the limit

because the cybersuits and nanosuit are flexible (meaning even 10 damage can get through because of blunt trauma) and the others above it are mini-mechs

[mighty hinge]

also further thoughts on this, either;
the TL10 Commando Battlesuit (probably more appropriate RAW and simplest) but with a houserule caveat of "it's lighter because it's TL11"
or
the TL11 Cybersuit with the addition of a Light Clamshell (+60 DR), one of the combat helmets (from +36/24 to +80/60), TL11 Assault boots (+30/15) and houseruled arm and leg versions of the clamshell

layering armor imposes a -1 to DX and DX-based skills but only one extra layer on each location is still only -1 total

raises the actual overall DR to 90-100 and solves the major issue of only using the cybersuit

third less "canonical" option is to use the Combat Hardsuit or Space Armor (both 100/60) but those are just armor with none of the "power" functions

[mighty hinge]

now the DR "100" (60 + 40 flexible) does mean that you need weapons that deal at least 70 effective damage to get 1 point through (60 to penetrate, then 10 to deal a point of blunt trauma)

doing this on average with 7.62x51mm [7d, avg. 24.5] is tricky
APHC is 7d(2), so 49 at double price
APDS, 7d+7(2) or 9d(2), so 63/65, at 5x price
APEP; 7d(3), so 73.5, at 10x price

and importantly whatever the AR shoots has to be something standard Marine armor can (sometimes) stop

which, assuming they're using a heavy clamshell over a heavy reflex bodysuit is 45 + 18 flexible or a combat hardsuit/space armor is 50

so only the APHC is suitable with that as a limit

to quote the wiki here; M118 FMJ-AP rounds are the standard-issue ammo type employed by the UNSC's assault rifles and UNSC infantry combat armor is capable of preventing lethal penetration at close range from a limited burst at the cost of bruising and significant discomfort

though the cybersuit+clamshell+etc setup does still allow for gaps in the coverage to be exploited, which is appropriate and true to how Sangheili armor is designed

(this isn't exactly the right armor for Jeht's guys but it's close)

a lot of his guys also use (the Reach version of) the Ranger set, which has more coverage especially for the head but still has plenty of gaps

(the Halo 2 version is Okay and the Halo 4+5 version sucks)

[mighty hinge]

this should be 40 on the dice, 80 "effective"

30 "x 2" = 60 to penetrate the clamshell, 10 ("x 2", which doesn't matter) to deal 1 blunt trauma

which 7d does about 0.01% of the time

[compact garden]

Yeah I think I could do that in 500 pts, but it’d be tight

[mighty hinge]

telekinesis is probably the most expensive thing

lab escapee also gives easy access to a lot of disadvantages

[compact garden]

Immortality can also run up the budget but yes

[mighty hinge]

i assumed they meant ageless

[compact garden]

Ah point

[mighty hinge]

thinking about Marathon in GURPS; i think this setup from Pyramid 3/72 Alternate Dungeons (Dungeon Fantasy Video Gaming) is probably better than repeatedly buying Extra Life https://i.imgur.com/g5DF7Nv.png

the SG in this case would be the Runner ability "items", of course

although; Extra Life (Copy, -20%, Requires body (Expensive), -40%) is only 10 points

not sure what else you could add to bring it down to 5

though you could also just make it a pure money situation

especially since you wont exactly be using points to get other cybernetics during gameplay

you have to buy or loot everything anyway

[limber mason]

Could you just not give them it for free

[mighty hinge]

technically yes

[mighty hinge]

had some thoughts so i played around with Gun Stats again; possible infantry rifle design for Fiver's bots (in the event he actually deployed infantry) https://i.imgur.com/RiMkWNd.png

electromagnetic bullpup firing saboted tungsten alloy darts, no larger than a modern assault rifle and similar velocity but the heavier round allows greater armor penetration even if damage after penetration is reduced

[also the base version should be 7d+1 pi, forgot to change that when i lowered the LDR. the pi- for the APDS is correct]

i considered a higher velocity for more damage but it was giving insane ranges

[mighty hinge]

because of RE9 and other stuff, thinking about this as a not-quite-Monster-Hunters game, enforcing physical inventory restrictions instead of just weight

also thinking, without lugging around a duffel back or something, how much ammo could you practically carry?
like... pistol in a belt holster,you might be able to get like 5 or 6 pistol magazines in belt pouches, rifle on a sling, with a regular plate carrier/vest/etc, you could probably get like, 8-10 rifle magazines if you really squeezed them in there, maybe even a few more pistol mags too but thats pushing it.

[spiral linden]

Huh, I'd need to think about that, but that could be interesting

[mighty hinge]

especially since against zombies (or anything else Unliving), even large piercing damage is half as effective, so you will need a lot more ammo

well, actually less, because its goes from x1.5 to x0.5

and regular piercing goes from x1 to x0.3_

(most rifles and handguns are regular piercing, though hollow-point can upgrade that)

of course, with a duffel bag (or car trunk or whatever else), you can theoretically store/carry/transport a ridiculous amount of gear and ammo, but how much each person can actually have access to at any given time is very important

and GURPS is the sort of game where forcing a player to spend multiple turns digging through the bag to find the right item is actually reasonable

[spiral linden]

This made me look over Iris's sheet and If I stripped off all of the mage stuff, it would likely drop off almost 140 points

[mighty hinge]

imagine being the regular survival horror survivors holding out when 5 dudes roll up in full tactical gear with one guy lugging a bag like this filled with gear and ammo

(this is a travel bag but you get the idea)

[spiral linden]

Iris's perferred handgun would possibly be kinda crap vs Unliving since its a FiveseveN

Even though it has a (2) armor divisor its still pi-

[mighty hinge]

they do make 5.7 hollow point but its still only pi

[spiral linden]

Also 5.7 is not common usually.

[mighty hinge]

and the FiveseveN is otherwise nearly identical to a regular 9mm

for a handgun, you'd really want something like .40 or .45, since those start as pi+ and HP makes them pi++

[spiral linden]

Good ol USP

[mighty hinge]

unfortunately theres very few good pi+ options for rifles

Loadout: Monster Hunters actually has an optional rule to breakdown pi+ into more detail and gives a good list of calibers https://i.imgur.com/bT0txA6.png

i think the only one of these that sees anything approaching regular usage for rifles is .50 Beowulf and even thats stretching "regular"

[spiral linden]

Yea

[mighty hinge]

and even that only upgrades from the M4's 4d+2 pi to 6d-1 pi+ at the cost of cutting your ammo supply dramatically

[spiral linden]

I think I'd still have Iris likely run the USP as a pistol.

[mighty hinge]

(for scale, the Beowulf's 10 round magazine is the same dimensions as an AR-15's 30 round)

[spiral linden]

I don't think that's really worth it personally

[mighty hinge]

no, not really

also (in GURPS), its also twice as expensive per round

[spiral linden]

You'd honestly probably be better off just bringing like the UMP or something since its already pi+

[mighty hinge]

(worse IRL)

yeah

a large caliber SMG or PCC

[spiral linden]

Of course this is assuming you're ONLY dealing with zombies and not B.O.W. nonsense

[mighty hinge]

yeah

though i assume most of them would be Unliving as well, at least in terms of injury tolerance

and youd still want the higher default piercing modifier over using HP since that comes with a (0.5) armor divisor

5.56 out of a full length barrel is 5d pi, even 7.62x54 peaks around 7d pi

with the 66% reduction from Unliving, thats the same as pi+ dealing ~1d+2 and ~2d+1

oh hmm

rifles are actually strictly better

https://i.imgur.com/on2fLsJ.png

[spiral linden]

Oh just from the raw amount of dice

[mighty hinge]

yeah

youre always getting 66% less damage but they're dealing so much more already they come out ahead

so 2d pi+ (.40 S&W) is actually equivalent to 3d pi

https://i.imgur.com/SR0POb2.png

4d pi+ being equal to 6d pi makes the Desert Eagle somehow a good choice maybe?

also this means the Beowulf (6d-1, avg 10) is actually dealing double the damage of the M4 (4d+2, avg 5.33) after injury

but still 1/3rd as many rounds so still not a great choice

also when it comes to headshots, raw damage is all that matters since its always just x4 (as long as they have a brain)

[spiral linden]

At least it's a bit more interesting of a choice

[mighty hinge]

yeah

(also GURPS typically stats zombies with No Vitals, so the x3 wounding there doesnt matter)

[spiral linden]

I'm imagining the recoil leaving dents in Iris's shoulder

[mighty hinge]

yeah beowulf is a nasty round

[spiral linden]

I'd love to throw Iris (minus magic) in this scenario

[spiral linden]

Yeaaaaa

[mighty hinge]

(also that massive drum is a whopping 34 rounds)

[spiral linden]

That's an anti Tyrant rifle

[mighty hinge]

pretty much yeah

[spiral linden]

Also would absolutely do a number on my clay girl's shoulder

[mighty hinge]

though, of course... https://i.imgur.com/V1iXdXI.png

but also... .50 BMG HP would be 6dx2(0.5) pi++

[spiral linden]

Terrifying

[mighty hinge]

short of bringing a 20mm, i think thats about as much as you can expect out of a rifle

oh also another relevant optional rule for shotguns (on top of an existing rule) https://i.imgur.com/zyNuoJA.png https://i.imgur.com/CNIR9LT.png

so a 12 gauge goes from 1d+1 pi- x9 to 4d+4 pi++ at ranges of 4 yards or less

(and the target gets x4 DR)

[nearly all shotguns have a range of 40/800]

actual slugs are also 4d+4 (or 5d) pi++ but with a range of 100/1200

[spiral linden]

Wondering what a reasonable armament would be ov erall

Although I might give Iris some Lifting ST?

[spiral linden]

Maybe like 3 or 4 points probably

That way she can comfortably carry whatever kit she's bringing (minus The Duffle Bag)

[dreamy sleet]

do y’all have any advice on how to do medium to large scale military operations? I figure that that’s what a lot of my upcoming mechsploitation game will be about, so I want to do it right

[mighty hinge]

theres mass combat rules in a few places

[stray plover]

so im doing a dune inspired game with a big focus on martial arts. there's still the whole space opera part though, so im wondering what books might be good for that

[spiral linden]

Eurgh, I'm staring at gear and its making my head spin

I'm not sure if its GCS making my head spin or something else

I just want to figure out a good baseline kit for Iris

[limber mason]

https://www.fluoriteguillotine.com/blog/2026/03/31/looking-for-the-fingerprints-on-gurps/

[compact garden]

Hmm, interesting

[mighty hinge]

ironically i think everything except the ending is a good argument that the fingerprints shes looking for are her own

(and also that gurps is actually covered in such fingerprints, theyre just less obvious if you don't know where to look)

[compact garden]

Yeah I disagree with her too, but for other reasons

I think GURPS has fingerprints and design to it but she dismisses anything with a whiff of "optional"

But if you play w/ eg. grappling rules, GURPS Basic Set only provides one set of detailed grappling rules, and those have fingerprints on them. If you go out and grab Technical Grappling instead, that's a different set of rules by a different author with different fingerprints

[mighty hinge]

actually... shes on the server even if she hasn't posted in a while

(serket08, same as her bsky and shes linked the blog before)

[limber mason]

unironically i fucking love the idea of the "Play game you haven't" club

[mighty hinge]

been playing Gray Zone Warfare recently (Tarkov but in SEA, basically) and thinking about the concept of GURPS Extraction Shooter

funnily, i think one of the biggest issues is probably money. if youre giving the enemies proper loadouts (gun of any usable quality + a realistic amount of ammo + consumables), without severely restricting sale prices, the players will make money pretty fast, on top of whatever their contacts are paying them. though this can be managed somewhat by just inflating purchase prices as well (and the obvious limiting of what you can actually buy)

as a rough example, an AK-47 costs $450, call that a typical sale price of $45. if on a given mission, the party loots an average of 2 each, thats $90 (plus other stuff). assuming one mission every other day, thats $1350/month

which at TL8 is already equal to Struggling pay ($1300/month)

though of course, this is also limited by how much you can physically carry

but also in GURPS thats not as much of a hard limit

especially since theres little to no reason not to pack an empty duffel bag and load it up with loot post mission and hike it out

[mighty hinge]

on this subject, you can just about fit a basic starting "tactical" setup into $4k (TL8 Poor)

https://i.imgur.com/ARUOkyg.png

(obviously a cheaper gun would help but not by much if you want something good)

and such a character into <150 points (barely)

[mighty hinge]

going through stuff related to this idea still, didn't notice until now that they published an Improved Assault Vest with more and better plates back in 2013 (P3/57) https://i.imgur.com/DZkoKVB.png

Improved Assault Vest

• Ballistic Panels
• 1 of: Large Trauma Plates, Enhanced Ballistic Plates or Advanced Trauma Plates
• 1 of: Small Trauma Plates or Enhanced Small Inserts

and theyre actually quite competitive https://i.imgur.com/iZqELKA.png

P3/55 implies the Reflex Tacsuit should also be able to use the same plates as the Tactical Vest, if so, it would be at DR 54

those plates are only +34 DR but also theyre only 9 lbs

also; for reference on damage, 7.62x51mm averages between 21 and 31.5, .50 BMG averages 42 to 49
(both non-AP)

hypothetical plate options (TL9 prices) per P3/85 https://i.imgur.com/HqeSXJS.png [edit: made a mistake on the prices]

(all at max DR, so mentally adjust down for whatever DR or weight you feel is appropriate)

having fixed the TL9 prices, those now come out extremely expensive. even switching to solid construction (CC 1) and they're still thousands of dollars, which is very odd

[mighty hinge]

also; minor GURPS news thats relevant to this (from the March 31 SJG news post)
Awaiting review by me once I've unpacked (and associated with no firm dates at this time) is David Pulver's first draft of GURPS Armor Design.

[mighty hinge]

was doing more weapon/armor stuff (specifically in relation to my superhero guy), mainly expanding my weapon/armor damage table to include TL10 and figured "hey, i should also model the nuclear options, just as an aside"

so here's GURPS Nukes, with the radiation rules (1 radiation damage = 1 rad) and damage thresholds for both normal (unarmored) humans and Zeb https://i.imgur.com/pSotv0n.png

[he has DR 50 and Damage Reduction 10, which is why he needs a separate line]

0.01 kt to 1 kt are from Ultra-Tech, 25 kt to 10 mt are from Spaceships

[mighty hinge]

this does account for the different scaling of the damage at range (/3 per yard for the explosion, /yard for the radiation) but not any Protection Factor, which should include air at longer ranges (2 PF per 750 yards), but i didn't feel like including that, mainly because it doesnt become meaningful until extreme ranges

and i was questioning that last statement even as i typed it which is why i decided to make a second table to include it and figure the difference (how much the PF reduces the overall damage) https://i.imgur.com/Qu6JeFq.png

mostly, i think this actually cements the fact that GURPS doesn't model explosions of this scale very well (in favor of the explosion)

[mighty hinge]

anyway the actual relevant thing is that [modern] TL8 armor actually keeps up fairly well against UT weaponry https://i.imgur.com/MzmWOUL.png

M4 and equivalents with APHC would be ~32, for reference. M995 officially pens 12 mm RHA at 100 yards, which is DR 33, so thats about right

[mighty hinge]

having gotten around to adding TL8 AP and APHC to most relevant weapons (most guns in 5.56x45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 that didn't already list AP rounds), DR 50 for Zeb was a good choice because its exactly where 7.52x51 APHC (out of longer guns) lines up https://i.imgur.com/uyhPbVS.png

the only TL7-8 infantry firearms with "effective averages" above 50 are: the Arctic Warfare with APDS [63], the Barrett M82 with APHEX [84] and 40mm grenade launchers with HEDP [140]

also as shown earlier, this aligns closely with modern body armor; the Improved Assault Vest with Ballistic Panels and Advanced Trauma Plates at a total of DR 51

[spiral linden]

Something about this spreadsheet I like

[mighty hinge]

hmm?

[spiral linden]

I like seeing it all sorted out like that I guess

[mighty hinge]

oh, i thought that you got cut off

and yeah, i basically make sheets like this so that i can lay out information in a more immediately visual manner

this is like, the fourth or fifth version of comparing armor and weapons, depending how you count, they were seperate originally and i had distinct modern and scifi weapons/armor as well, but this combined everything into one.

also stopped listing every divisor for every weapon and swapped to duplicate entries, which really reduced clutter even if it makes it much longer

[mighty hinge]

okay minor rules questions for the folks in the know; previously i was using a modified version of the Baseball from Action 5 (https://i.imgur.com/S7xFMUS.png) to model Zeb's custom made throwing weapons, assuming they were basically regular baseball but really big, however, i went looking for it again and realized that it would probably be better to use the shot instead, especially since it results in less absurd (but still Super) ranges https://i.imgur.com/ZWyrD5P.png

my question is this; given Zeb's size and ST (SM+2 and ST 50), do you think it's reasonable to reduce that Bulk penalty since i assume its basically entirely weight

also the resulting attacks, for reference https://i.imgur.com/kIYuKPZ.png

[ST 50/140 w/ Super Throw 1, so +2 per die and doubled range]

[compact garden]

It seems high in general, TBH

[mighty hinge]

hi there official SJG bsky account, dont mind, uh, the other 99% of my account https://i.imgur.com/caxQudH.png

[limber mason]

The media manager is chill iirc

[mighty hinge]

i have to assume so

[limber mason]

if it's the same person who ran the tiktok?

yeah

[mighty hinge]

anyway, thinking about how i want to divide up the in-universe power scaling for my superhero setting; i feel like this works fairly well (i will also be including offensive and "utility" stuff, but defense is the most straightforward i think) https://i.imgur.com/uPGUvdR.png

this is also not accounting for worn armor, only natural (and ideally full coverage) DR

[limber mason]

Human -> Street Level (Low) -> Street Level (High) -> Country Level -> World Level -> Galaxy Level

Now obviously Gurps is flexible

one can be capt america with a hilariously broken shield, but still be vulnerable to something that'd take out spiderman if they hit you

[mighty hinge]

more [Human], Local, Urban, Regional, National, International

even 300 DR is defeated by common military weaponry

[limber mason]

yeah that makes sense

[mighty hinge]

its just not infantry weaponry (besides anti-tank stuff)

[limber mason]

Also good as to not tag them as power levels actually

batman has no "Powers" but he has Power

[mighty hinge]

like the AT4 does 36d(10), thats effectively over 1200

(plus a linked 14d for another 50)

the original RPG-7 is 24d(10)+14d, so similar

and yeah, its more about the scope of the area they're able to cover and the threats theyre able to manage

which is why Zeb, who's offensive and defensive qualities should put him into low A tier is functionally B tier, because he has no exceptional powers beyond being really big and strong and has no exceptional mobility

[versed fossil]

(oh hey thanks @limber mason )

[mighty hinge]

hi welcome to my ramble zone the GURPS thread

[versed fossil]

Very excited to be here ty ty

[mighty hinge]

oh also, another important GURPS fact. GURPS is symmetrical; in that NPCs have access to all the same Things that the PCs do. HOWEVER, NPCs are not "built" like PCs. the GM is one billion percent allowed to (even intended to) just Write Down Whatever Seems Right and not include anything that isn't going to come up in the fight and there are absolutely no point restrictions at all

[versed fossil]

That is relieving to know - GURPs has so many options that it's hard to construct adversaries on the fly

[mighty hinge]

on a very basic level, you just assign whatever HP, FP and skill levels feel appropriate and then add advantages and equipment as needed

[mighty hinge]

oh also; for an idea of what sorts of weapons are needed to deal with A+ defenses (and why 300+ is insane) https://i.imgur.com/SN7QiJ1.png

[the D-81TM/2A46 is the main gun of the T-64/72/90]

[most of its rounds have multiple linked or follow-up effects, im only listing the "main" portion]

oh and gun stats has the abram's gun, so i can add that too

https://i.imgur.com/Gj6wNuf.png

[again, the HEDP is only the shaped charge portion, there also an explosive portion]

basically, to be able to (usually) take a round from a modern MBT you need at least DR 2,000

of course, you can make it survivable without needing that much armor, its why they extended Damage Reduction in Supers. DR 300 + Reduction 100 gets it down to 9 damage; which is allowable if i consider Supers D-Scale to be my settings limit, which I sort of already was.

(D-Scale actually limits you to DR 500 and Reduction 100 but its just a suggestion)

https://i.imgur.com/xpovoa7.png https://i.imgur.com/iqZdVrr.png

Zeb is at the upper end of I-Scale. maxed on everything except the basic damage ("only" 8d-1 swing and no innate attacks)

[mighty hinge]

also i figured since i was adding the modern tank guns, i should add the UT big guns as well (ive highlighted the relevant visible ones, plus anything labeled as TL9 or TL10 100mm) https://i.imgur.com/KWpguIp.png

notably, 64mm and 100mm warheads are also used for the TL9+10 shoulder fired missile launchers

https://i.imgur.com/bjJcas3.png

6 homing 64mm missiles is very scary stuff

and for speed
500 = 1000 MPH / Mach 1.3
750 = 1500 MPH / Mach 1.9
2000 = 4000 MPH / Mach 5.2
3000 = 6000 MPH / Mach 7.8

the 64mm have a flight time of 8 seconds, the 100mm have a flight time of 5 seconds, so even if youre far away you have to be very very fast to escape

(4k yards is ~2.27 miles, 15k yards is ~8.5 miles)

these are also very short ranges, actually, the Stinger is 800/8,800 for comparison and even the notoriously short range Javelin is 220/2,200

the Javelin is also extremely powerful as well; 6dx3(10), follow-up 6dx11(10), linked 7dx4
so similar in power to the 100mm Shaped Charge warheads

which makes sense, its a tank killer

[mighty hinge]

anyway, new sheet update, i added bars to more clearly denote where various armors lie in relation to the weaponry and it does make certain "regimes" of weaponry much more visible

ex: "even an early TL8 concealable vest can stop it" (and even Diaphonous Reflex is DR6 and Light is also DR8 so it's close) https://i.imgur.com/xVffoN9.png

then "you need a real vest or actual reflex" https://i.imgur.com/R2IEjka.png

huge pistols and small rifles and a few PDWs https://i.imgur.com/uEPJcZp.png

and so on

anyway, the interesting sections are here; turns out TL8 armor can be pretty competitive with higher TL stuff! https://i.imgur.com/PQgwXyq.png

and here; turns out higher TL weaponry is still very scary! https://i.imgur.com/YeA74CW.png

(also ignore the lack of damage type on a bunch of stuff, i was too lazy to add all those in during that pass)

theres also some scary stuff thats still further down, the TL9 Sniper Railgun at avg 126, TL10 10mm HEMP (which the Storm Rifle, Storm Carbine and Heavy Pistol can shoot) at avg 140, TL8 40mm HEDP at avg 245, TL9 25mm Shaped Charge (which the Payload Rifle and the smaller underbarrel grenade launcher shoot) at avg 525!

[mighty hinge]

so, for improved readability and easier comparison of the armors, i transferred them to another page and condensed it (also added the tailoring options for reflex and nanoweave) https://i.imgur.com/VIVN60i.png [edit: forgot bioplas can also be tailored]

and a linear scaling (by 1s then by 5 after 80) https://i.imgur.com/4JSDMMm.png

[mighty hinge]

decided to try thinking of a standard loadout for superhero-aligned quick reaction forces
https://i.imgur.com/zzpIz1p.png https://i.imgur.com/cpabUmD.png

1. everything at TL10 because they're well funded and equipped
2. Combat Hardsuit, Infantry Helmet, Gauss Rifle, Stealth Exoskeleton
3. Basic medical and emergency gear, assuming they might need to rescue people in the moment but not medics or rescue personnel themselves
4. Similar basic SWAT-esque gear for forced entry and dealing with criminals; morph axe can be basically a crowbar, hammer, etc, lockpicks for quieter entry, cufftape and heavy duty cuffs for restraining people, i should probably also include a proper nonlethal option besides the flashlights (which have dazzle modes)
5. software and accessory gear like the laser comms, radar and ESM

total weight: ~94 lbs (Medium for someone of ST 9 to 11, Light for ST 12 to 17; with the Exo obv)
total cost: ~$72k (Wealthy at TL8-9, Comfortable at TL10 but this is all provided by the organization so it largely doesn't count against personal wealth and they're NPCs anyway)

for someone of ST 14, they only need to drop 28 lbs to move down to no encumbrance, which means the backpack and everything in the LBV except the first aid kit and magazines [also accounting for the fact i forget to make the CTS on the rifle free and weightless since its already included]

that gives just under <65 lbs of gear https://i.imgur.com/jHxtaek.png + <28 lbs of "extras" https://i.imgur.com/lTRGFAQ.png

and all this assumes a fairly short operation, get in get out, a few hours at most.

originally i was going to give them Storm Rifles, since with APEP those are terrifying but i forgot they only have 12 rounds per magazine

https://i.imgur.com/Z3snduk.png

oh and the armor https://i.imgur.com/8cPOTk5.png

[mighty hinge]

and for scale, this is competitive with an mid-range A level threat, as seen here

for something mid-B tier; the [TL9] Assault Carbine with APHC, [TL9] PDW with APEP, [TL10] Gauss PDW and [TL10] Laser Rifle are all 42 effective

various real guns in 7.62x51mm NATO with APHC rounds are between 37 and 49 depending on barrel length

real guns in 5.56x45mm APHC [equivalent to M855A1 or M995] are similarly between 28 and 37

so, TL8 troops could handle C-tier and low-B
you'd want TL9 for mid-B up to low-A
and TL10 for mid-A to high-A
A+ requires the heaviest infantry weapons, anti-tank weapons and vehicle weapons.

and "heaviest infantry weapons" means, Anti-Material Rifle or Heavy Chaingun with APEP, the Portable Railgun, the Gauss HMG, TL9+ 25mm+ SEFOP, TL10+ 15mm+ HEMP, TL9+ 25mm Shaped Charge, the Plasma Gatling Gun

(the PGG, HCG and GHMG all require ST 20, so exo or battlesuit equipped troops only)

all weapons over 150 actually suitable for infantry use (that are not missile launchers [64mm and 100mm] or mortars [64mm]) https://i.imgur.com/vP0LbBE.png

a funny option here is TL10 15mm HEMP; which includes the TL9 Magnum Pistol

ST 11 and Rcl 4 so its got a hell of a kick but it'll blast a hole in nearly any super
[the Desert Eagle in .50 AE is ST 12 and Rcl 4, for comparison]

[mighty hinge]

because i thought of it, the Gauss Rifle and Rainbow Laser Rifle [since its similar] as Innate Attacks, as close to the actual weapons as possible https://i.imgur.com/xxcZQop.png

and lowering RoF to 3, removing the accuracy bonus, simplifying the range and removing the gadgets gets it slightly cheaper https://i.imgur.com/8IhgzBr.png

[mighty hinge]

https://i.imgur.com/68QQ4w9.png

hopefully a somewhat more readable comparison between the tiers and the relevant weaponry

i didnt include stuff like HEMP, Shaped Charge, etc here but all of SC is in "X" tier as is all HEMP but 10mm (which is A+)

(also the 7.62 APDS in A is literally only the Arctic Warfare because thats the one in HT listed with it and also nobody really uses it afaik, but its relevant so it goes on the list)

and also the "short barreled" distinction is non-specific because it really depends on the specific gun but its like 90% accurate

oh also, for "pistols and SMGs in nearly any caliber" basically the only exceptions are extremely weak rounds, even the Ruger Mk1 in .22 LR is 1d+1 (4.5)

so even the tiniest 9mm pocket pistol is sufficient

i think the only exception would be shorter pistols and SMGs with subsonic ammo

(subsonic reduces damage to 0.6x, so 2d+2 (9) becomes 1d+2 (5.5), 2d+1 (8) or 2d (7) both probably become 1d+1 (4.5))

this one was obviously faster https://i.imgur.com/JxF5EIV.png

(the IAVwBP+ATP just barely snuck into A with DR 51)

(and obviously vehicles can have significantly more armor but this isnt about them)

[mighty hinge]

also thinking about the particulars of the actual organization Zeb works for (PSI is a name I came up with off-hand a while ago and I think it works) https://i.imgur.com/O0jxyMl.png

[mighty hinge]

some quick Mass Combat thoughts https://i.imgur.com/Q4pMnuT.png

[mighty hinge]

made another version of the damage sheet specifically to actually do the damage math properly, though only against a single listed DR at a time; in other words, it actually calculates the (rounded) damage against that DR, then applies to appropriate wounding modifier and as a bonus step also includes Damage Reduction as well (up to 100)

here's the weapons actually able to hurt the hypothetical maxed out A+ Super with DR 300 and DR (100) https://i.imgur.com/JgOHinN.png

[mighty hinge]

also even at Zeb's 50/(10), not a lot can reliably hurt him (and he has 50 HP with Regular Regeneration) [sorted by TL to make the progression clearer] https://i.imgur.com/qII5Yaw.png https://i.imgur.com/Wp9y9DD.png https://i.imgur.com/fkspVQ3.png https://i.imgur.com/PFixwGw.png https://i.imgur.com/sSKvqya.png

accounting for max damage makes things a little better [just TL8 this time] but not by much https://i.imgur.com/xLWLsgl.png

like the first weapon (in common usage) that can deal more than 1 damage is still .50 BMG https://i.imgur.com/xLWLsgl.png

at TL6, the standard M2 is the same, the M2HB comes out to 3, at TL7, the first is 40x46mm HEDP, then the M61 Vulcan

[mighty hinge]

remembering how math works, the max is not really relevant, though i guess it can represent a worst case scenario, since the odds of rolling max damage decrease exponentially as the number of dice increase (1d is 1/6, 2d is 1/6^2, 3d is 1/6^3, so on)

[16.6_%, 2.77_%, 0.463%, etc]

and i guess to a certain degree it can also account for volume of fire. if its only a 1 in a million chance but a thousand guys are firing at you on full auto, some of those hits are, theoretically, going to be maxed

[mighty hinge]

i was going to post another modification of the chart focused on Zeb in his supersuit (DR 165, at least on the torso), but i realized that version is only TL9 and I raised the setting limit to TL10, so i have to design a new one

okay it only raises it by another 40 points (technically up to 3 more but i like round numbers) while also halving the weight https://i.imgur.com/eR9Zmrl.png

(this is the thickest possible armor under the design rules, scaled for Zeb's ridiculous size)

it again reduces the number of weapons which can reliably hurt him quite dramatically, now that he's comparable to the Combat Walker (he's DR 205/140 while it's DR 200/120)

https://i.imgur.com/ZeAd9H4.png

against DR 205, the number of weapons under Average is 44 and Max is 62.
against DR 140, it's 52 and 81.
out of 459 total entries.

against just ("just") 50, its 120 and 216

[mighty hinge]

this should be only """man-portable""" options against DR 140 https://i.imgur.com/OyUEHTd.png

man-portable meaning a character in a Combat Walker (+20 ST) and with an Articulated or Gyro-Stabilized Weapon Harness (reduces required ST to 2/3)

the M61 Vulcan cannon and M242 Bushmaster are not particularly difficult, "only" ST 29 and 28 respectively (though carrying enough ammo is likely to be challenging)
the Railgun just barely gets in, with ST 57, which a harness lowers to 38, so an ST 18 character can theoretically use it with a harness and combat walker

but the gun weighs fucking 4000 lbs plus 150 pounds per magazine plus it requires External Power, so good luck

even for Zeb that's ridiculous, it would put him at Extra-Heavy encumbrance unless he uses his Super-Strength

actually you'd need ST 45 just to be able to move at all with it

well, you could theoretically carry it on your back with as low as ST 37 but it would cost 1 FP per second to do so

also to give scale on how much armor this is, DR 140 is 2 inches of RHA or 2.8 inches of mild steel. DR 200 is 2.86 inches of RHA or 4 inches of mild steel

[mighty hinge]

something i hadnt previously appreciated about the Warbot is that it's (relatively) fast.
the Walking Tank model has Basic Move 5 with Enhanced Move 1, so it can run 10 mph, and Super Jump 1
the Vertol and Contragrav models have Air Move 11 from Flight and Enhanced Move 3, so it can fly at up to 88 mph

(Move 10 with SJ1 means an 8 foot running high jump and a 34 foot running long jump)

also very strong, ST 25 with Lifting ST +15, though oddly its minimally armored, only DR 50 at TL9 and DR 75 at TL10

and unlike the combat android (which has slightly less armor), it can't wear additional armor

also not very strong for its size, somewhat, its SM+3 ("the size of a subcompact car")

i mean we've established that DR 50 is good, but yknow

[mighty hinge]

sitting in my car waiting for roadside (popped a tire), so here's a sheet for the rules for cybernetics armor from P3/51

ex: a TL9 cyber arm with realistic flesh can have DR 5 + DR 3 (Semi-Ablative, Flexible) without looking unusual

(RF armor is SA+F, L/S armor is A+F)

oh and UN is Unnatural Features

oh I fucked the last column, whoops

should be 35, 21, etc

[mighty hinge]

also from P3/51, Modular Mecha, which might be appropriate for this setting in limited numbers

also very scary

the base stats on the mechs as well

[mighty hinge]

oh also, Modular Mecha is extremely good because it has both skates and jump jets

[mighty hinge]

oh also, since their armor is laminate (unless you take the thing that removes it), theyre very resistant to shaped charge weaponry

for the Light's effective DR 1800

(ignore the Railgun, APEP and APFSDS/APFSDSDU here)

even just 600 is enough to force the usage of anti-tank weaponry

(im on my phone so these are even less legible than usual)

i dont think ill include these, obviously theyre not that much more heavily armored than existing tanks and such, but its a lot of extra capability and not that fitting outside of individual suits or prototypes

[mighty hinge]

ive also added the guns from P3/37 ("More Ultra-Tech Guns and Heavy Weapons")

https://i.imgur.com/1EWCyfX.png https://i.imgur.com/NZgcwpb.png https://i.imgur.com/3nVHFjt.png https://i.imgur.com/D848C7z.png https://i.imgur.com/qKBfiWM.png https://i.imgur.com/rFLuuDy.png

blue is the new stuff, ofc

the new 160mm and 400mm rounds obviously add a lot, but theres also just a bunch of heavy weapons

(the Howitzers, Dual-Purpose Guns and 160mm Railgun are all intended for indirect fire)

theres also new 160mm and 400mm missiles too and vehicular missile launchers in 100mm and 160mm

(the 400mm is a 2500 lb cruise missile)

i figured id model the cruise missile for show https://i.imgur.com/wnv1uiW.png

the thermobaric is nasty because they divide damage by [2 x yards from center] instead [3 x yards from center], so combined with the drastically higher damage, it falls off slower

https://i.imgur.com/KMur97F.png

so its still dealing 1 point all the way out to 840 yards (768 meters, 0.48 miles)

the list against DR 300 grows but its basically all vehicular weaponry https://i.imgur.com/0yaWt6r.png

the Light Autocannon is ST 32M and 250 lbs so it's usable by battlesuit troops

also the 100mm Multiple Tactical Missile Launcher (4 shots) is 150 lbs and 25M so also useful

(a single 160mm Missile is 200 lbs and 23M so less useful)

the heavy gatling and heavy autocannon are 500 lbs and 45M so usable by battlesuit troops with the harnesses

but its pushing the limit

ST 40 is BL 320, so 500 lbs alone is Light Encumbrance, plus 350 lbs per magazine, so two mags and nothing else puts you to Heavy

(best case, obviously)

and not counting the... 250 lb harness

(500 lbs if its gyrostabilized)

[mighty hinge]

oh actually a more direct worldbuilding idea, reusing an old chart (based on stuff suggested by Supers); distribution of supers both across ranks and across nations https://i.imgur.com/ieGYTUw.png

basically, 1 in 1 million are Super, each nation is then allocated a number of them based on an equal weighting of their population [pure random chance], land area [a stand-in for general environmental factors] and GDP [a stand-in for "pollution, industrial accidents, advanced technology" and things like urban migration of supers]

for the ranks, thats a more typical spread with each rarer than the previous, though those numbers are not final

also only 85 countries, i dont remember the selection process when i originally made this

also god i made it almost three years ago https://i.imgur.com/AcRlAlf.png

yup, here it is and thankfully i included my reasoning

[if you saw me actually post in the thread, ignore that]

but anyway, as shown it accounts for 90% of the population, 81% of the land area and 96% of the GDP, so its mostly comprehensive

the "Leftover" amounts are those lost to rounding at the each step, with the second including the first

so 883 lost to the rounding to determine how many are allocated and another 289 lost in the rounding per rank

oh and 4% lost because the ranks don't total 100%

[mighty hinge]

oh also, a very WIP timeline i hadnt posted before https://i.imgur.com/8UdXGvW.png

and some more setting thoughts i just wrote https://i.imgur.com/9UdpS4s.png

i sort of selected the relevant nations arbitrarily but my thinking is 1. the USSR never fell, thats a classic everyone loves 2. if there was a Sino-Soviet split in this timeline, they've repaired relations since 3. China is the major opponent to US/Japan/Korea domination of Asia 4. Germany reunified eastwards instead of westwards so they're Soviet-aligned 5. "independent" is a nicer "third world" still meaning "not overtly supporting either of other groups against each other" 6. oh and India is just India and im not mentioning anything else around there because im not touching the Partition

[mighty hinge]

thinking about the alt-hist and got onto the subject of the space race and finally realized a fairly easy solution to "why didnt flying heroes just go to space before the space programs got there?" with "nobody had Flight (Space Flight) by that point so they couldn't get past the upper atmosphere"

[spiral linden]

Lolol

[mighty hinge]

because even if youve got Sealed and Doesn't Breathe and all that stuff, you're still limited by how high you can actually fly

id actually written a "NASA has decided not to involve superheroes in the program" clause around the time of Gemini but that was mainly for "why not use them as test pilots / astronauts /etc"

and they do eventually get involved, of course, 1981 - [super] joins John Young and Robert Crippen aboard STS-1 to become first superhero in space. [super] conducts first unprotected spacewalk.

oh also the first shuttle is named Constitution like NASA originally planned instead of being named Enterprise, because I've decided Star Trek doesn't happen in this timeline because of cultural divergence

(still never goes to space because its still just a test vehicle that they dont bother refitting)

i still havent come up with any details for specific [famous, historical] heroes because i dont want to just do knockoffs

[spiral linden]

I should pop open my gurps books and figure out how to stat out another character of mine at some point.

Gotta figure out mannequins and how moving on a wheeled stand would work.

[mighty hinge]

No Legs (Wheeled) with some amount of reduced Basic Move

[spiral linden]

I think I've posted her before.

[mighty hinge]

actually hmm, is the stand considered part of her body?

or is it just equipment, so to speak

[spiral linden]

Well she can move with it attached.

[mighty hinge]

okay so No Legs (Wheeled) if she can control it

[spiral linden]

Obviously it can be unscrewed.

[compact garden]

And then No Legs (Sessile) otherwise

[mighty hinge]

i was going to say Lame (Legless)

and then treating the stand as basically a wheelchair or equivalent Mitigator

[compact garden]

Ah, hmm

[mighty hinge]

both work and result in effectively the same situation, just different point values

oh actually, sessile doesnt work

https://i.imgur.com/XVp7nzC.png

[compact garden]

Yeah, I misremembered

[mighty hinge]

no its fine, i had to look at it like three times to notice that part

[spiral linden]

Humm....would No Legs (Wheeled) make more sense since she's a mannequin (that was human)?

[compact garden]

Yeah

[spiral linden]

Rather straight forward for injury tolerance though.

Being a mannequin homogenous is kind of an easy pick io think

Anything outside of that would be super-science stuff

Since part of her concept is being a mad scientist

So likely TL8^ stuff

[mighty hinge]

playing stalker 2 (again), looting dudes and getting way too many absolutely shitfucked broken guns, had a GURPS Extraction Shooter thought; instead of broken guns or just letting you loot a million fuckin guns, MGS4 style ID-locked guns you have to pay to unlock or sell for pennies

[mighty hinge]

entirely unrelated (as if often the case), i got into thinking about magic again and specifically Conduct/Draw Power

turns out one of the best ways to carry around a ton of mana is to just drive an electric car https://i.imgur.com/0DrSC0a.png

[spiral linden]

This already sounds extremely funny

[mighty hinge]

everything besides the electric cars is real world numbers from the wikiped, i did not feel like looking up a dozen different cars so i just went with a rough range especially because of how high the numbers are, obv

theyre also the only (easily) portable source of power that actually runs into the limits on Conduct/Draw

that being HT x (Magery^2) / 4 Megawatts

after conversion
HT 10 and Magery 1 can draw ~7 energy per second safely
HT 12, Magery 2 is ~28 per second
etc

of course, if youre in a building (and have time), just an outlet https://i.imgur.com/krb7HBU.png

[spiral linden]

Entire fuse box is funny

[mighty hinge]

(12 A, 240 V is standard US mains electricity for a single outlet, the "entire fuse box" number is what GURPS 3e Technomancer lists but it should probably be much higher these days)

https://i.imgur.com/8CtaEnI.png

[compact garden]

This feels sorta like "the best way to carry a bunch of gasoline around is to drive an ICE car"

[mighty hinge]

i mean true

and technically the car would still function as a source in that case, just based on the power instead of the capacity

~965 hp is 2 energy/second

[compact garden]

Yeah but really you wanna a cargo vehicle with a bunch of gas tanks or batteries in the back

[mighty hinge]

(very few vehicles will actually be able provide 2 per second unless you own a supercar)

oh also anything less than 1 per minute is useless, since the spell costs that much to maintain

a gas vehicle also benefits from other tech spells, mainly Create Fuel, Preserve Fuel and Essential Fuel

although an electric vehicle would benefit from Propel since you can use the battery to power the spell directly (which can yield higher efficiency)

but thats more directly based on actual skill and (loaded) weight of the vehicle