Prototype Pattern Groups

[muted blaze]

They never go to the point

They just fucking kill you

[silent wedge]

Some OpFor-sided variant of Holdout where they don't have to actually be in the zone and they only need to keep you out.

[vagrant grotto]

I’d leave it to the players to figure out how to engage them from the fiction lol

[silent flicker]

Gauntlet then?

[ashen crown]

Could make it an Ultra Prism encounter and have it be a Fortify as the Mesmerist has its projections seize the objectives

Or have multiple Veteran Prisms

[placid glacier]

Is the Anchor a Rearguard?

[vagrant grotto]

Yes

Unequivocally

All it does is play “keep out” and “defend zone”

[placid glacier]

I mean I figured just wanted to double check

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah no thank you for asking! Happy to confirm

[serene tangle]

I'm going to be able to run a game next after a few weeks of hiatus, are there any NPCs/optionals you'd like feedback on specifically?

(Otherwise I'm planning to throw a few ires at my players)

[vagrant grotto]

#1254229800952922193 message

[serene tangle]

Ahhh ok cool, I'll take a look and pick some stuff then!

[vagrant grotto]

If you throw Ire before v1.23 is released, make the following changes:

1. tier 2 hp is 18 (typo in lcp)
2. Speed to 5
3. Excruciating transposition shreds ire until start of next turn instead of self damage
4. Obelisk has 5/8/10 hp and burst 2

[next jewel]

naurr not the silly manticore self damage:( (there was probably a good reason for it I just liked the direct reference and also self damage is pretty silly)

[vagrant grotto]

I disliked gaining Overshield just to lose it to self damage. It felt fiddly

[serene tangle]

In the play test you ran with it, it definitely seemed like busy work most of the time with them gaining then immediately losing it

[next jewel]

Yeah that's fair

[silent wedge]

I'll also be starting Iphigenia at midnight and that's a good coincidence because Ire and Howler are definitely some of the most SecComm-coded NPCs in PPG. (Napalm too but that's tested)

[muted blaze]

I was gonna say "Is the Howler SECCOM coded?" and then thought of the Enkidu and promptly shut up

[silent wedge]

There's a ||dou enkidu bossfight|| in one of the early combats IIRC

[vagrant grotto]

With all things in lancer, all my NPCs are anything you want them to be (derogatory)

But yes Howler got that dog in them

Ire is strictly Manticore refined, in comparison

[silent wedge]

For Ire it's not so much the manticore bit as "a weapon of intimidation that runs in and rips people apart while threatening mutually assured destruction" feels very apt.

Especially because of major spoiler reasons I won't get into.

[vagrant grotto]

Then it’s perfect lol

Not only that, but I definitely planned for that (I did not)

[visual nest]

I see you are using a GM technique here

[sudden cosmos]

I've had my first player say they prefer vanilla structure over the daze or system trauma structure system

Because, to that player, rolling snake eyes and sitting out the rest of the combat is "funny"

🥴

[muted blaze]

:)

[vagrant grotto]

Wild lol

[sudden cosmos]

I understand players bristling at one stress because every time a player enters meltdown, they turn into freaks who do the craziest things ever, which I respect

But a bad stress roll means you get to have that silly sin overflow turn before exploding, which can have an appreciable effect on the battlefield

A bad structure roll is just "and now you're hard cover"

[umbral sluice]

its fascinating because I have a player with that exact same opinion

that apparently enjoys the lancer structure table just fucking you over sometimes

needless to say I do not understand it

[dapper goblet]

Three, THREE of my players insist they love the structure table

WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE

[ashen crown]

raises my hand slowly

Some people have a really fun time eating shit

Like it’s not happened to me often, because I’ve not been a player often, but if I got stunned by structure I’d be like “hell yeah let’s see what happens,” maybe ask an ally to stabilize or something to clear it for me if they can. If I get destroyed I’d just say “hell yeah Pilot actions!”

I once saw a Lancer Actual Play, No Home In Twilight, where one of the players cheered every time he rolled bad or took structure or whatever, and somehow I internalized that and realized “ya know if you shift your mindset right it is a lot of fun to eat shit and die”

If you celebrate your losses it improves the table vibes imo, especially the GM who might feel bad if a players typically get dour about being hit hard & rolling bad.

Ofc, the people who loudly celebrate their losses like that are in stark minority to literally everyone else so yeah using alt structure rules is recommended lol

[vagrant grotto]

I’m a fan of Wounds That Can Kill You in like, Mothership, but that’s a whole ‘nother vibe

Tbh if lancer had better pilot on foot support, I might even be okay with the default tables

But it doesn’t, so I’m not

[sudden cosmos]

Getting popped early from structure has caused players to lose combats. While I understand the rationale of "losing is fun and players should do it more," I'd prefer they lose when scraping tooth and claw to the bitter end of the sitrep than "lol the genghis got popped by an unlucky sniper shot in round 3 and now we're just dead here"

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah no that’s partly why I also made a Safe Retreat an actual mechanic

The ability to cut losses and reengage later

I’m working against the set piece combat system in this case though

[sudden cosmos]

I'm of the mind that points of failure in a fight should, bare minimum, come down to at least several dice rolls going poorly for the PC

Like, enough that the player starts thinking tactics before "I rolled bad"

If the player says "I overextended and got caught out" or "I wasn't exploiting NPC behavior" then things went wrong, but they're able to digest a root cause of what happened instead of "my plan was perfect I just rolled bad" yaknow

[ashen crown]

Nah yeah that’s a really good point

[tame wharf]

ive been running the PPG structure and stress for my current newbie campaign and overall its felt a lot nicer as the GM

[next jewel]

Yeah I make structure be auto dazed and stress be auto exposed and my players have been very thankful lol

like they be not tracking their health properly (or more like they do but just don't do anything about it) and then dropping structure and being like oh no my turn😭 so safe to say they wouldn't be extatic about full stun on structure

[vagrant grotto]

If folks run howlers sometime before v1.23 drops, please try them with these provisional changes:

• Armor to 0 at all tiers
• Speed to 5 at all tiers
• Threat on ripper claws to 1
• all burst 2 and range 2 effects reduced to 1

And lemme know how they fare

[silent wedge]

aye aye

[sudden cosmos]

pre-nerfed the armor already, haha

though my next howler won't be for another month or so

[drifting parcel]

Having just run the holwer I think this may be an over correction. I think if the armour is getting yeeted it does need to get a bit more health as it can't tar pit as well now

While I do wholly understand your concerns with the power scaling of the Howler

A elite Howler should be that much of a threat

[vagrant grotto]

Noted, hence why these are provisional for now

If it’s too much, I’ll revert

[tame wharf]

@vagrant grotto hey are you cool with me sharing the pack of all the statuses and marks around?

i know a few of them are missing art if you have an up-to-date version

[vagrant grotto]

Sure go for it

I don’t think I do? Dunno why some are missing icons but whatever

[silent wedge]

Is that a foundry module or just a group of images?

[vagrant grotto]

Foundry “module” that’s just a compendium of my statuses (e.g. drag down, assassin’s mark, Compelled Duel) that I use in my world

[fierce ingot]

how are you guys running the anomaly in fvtt since it can't be scanned?

[vagrant grotto]

On Foundry? I edit the NPC’s class and template items to be “???”

[fierce ingot]

awesome i love it

[vagrant grotto]

I also use Token Tooltip Alt, so I may try something where I check if it’s an Anomaly, and if it is I obscure the template and class until it’s scanned/players have Observer Permissions on it

[opaque crescent]

I have tooltip turned off for anomalies then have my scan macro check if it has the anomaly class and turn the tooltip back on after scan

I’ve also altered Combat Carousel so that it doesn’t give stuff away when activating their turns

But base carousel doesn’t show anything without a fix anyway, so less important

[muted blaze]

I LOVE HYBRID SITREPS

This is what I'm cooking for my one tonight >:)

[muted blaze]

Outside off the threat and feral howl, this looks like the only trait which uses threat 2

Which is funny because by reducing it to range 1 makes it so you can remove 2 sentences from it

[vagrant grotto]

Yup, reclaims some space lol

[vagrant grotto]

Oh dear that’s a lot haha

[muted blaze]

The ||Fuel cells should be quite close, assuming the party can multi-task||

||It is above budget but I have trust||

[vagrant grotto]

As always, I welcome feedback

[muted blaze]

😈

[vagrant grotto]

These days I’m surprisingly confident in how I’ve budgeted my modular objectives, tbqh, but evidence and data to support/detract from that is welcomed

[next jewel]

aren't ships supposed to be atleast size 4 according to CRB...

[muted blaze]

Tom bloom has no power here

[next jewel]

(doesn't really matter but it feels silly for the party to enter such a "small" ship with their mechs)

does the party have any size 2's?

[muted blaze]

Long

[next jewel]

I was gonna say square grid peak cuz of the floor but then saw the bottom edge😔

[muted blaze]

I would never make a rectangular shaped ship go diagonal in a square grid map

[drifting parcel]

Oh when it comes to this snaz I just add a number to the top of the terian to tell height for cover

You know a Capacitor and Vulture on a Train Heisist is a evil combo

[vagrant grotto]

I wouldn't know, actually! Because of Overshield stacking?

[muted blaze]

I do that too

[muted blaze]

Prototype pattern groups feedback

Hybrid sitreps

• Cool sitrep, very fun. (Says the artillerist)
  • Did quite well, but forge clamps was the MVP
• The hotwire and fuel were good. The clocks gave a good sense of urgency and risky situation, felt adrenaline. Was cool
  • Good roleplaying experience
• Simultaneous sitreps were very good, can split the party amongst the party is very interesting
  • Artillerist focussing on capturing a point whilst others captured the points
  • Leans into character archetypes too
• "Why so many activations"
  • Because I'm mean
• The part where you the character the payload can extract where only one needs to be next to the ship to extract is a nice QOL
  • I ruled it that you could extract a payload as a free action whilst EITHER you OR the payload was adjacent to the objective

NPCs

Brigand

• Forcing a scan out of people is, "I don't know". Neat concept, is fine I guess
  • "Felt over applied" (Artillerists opinion, first exposure to brigands)
• "Anything that makes support more fun, I approve"
• Flimsy tricks feels neat, flavourful but not too scary
• Kinda scary but you can turnn it off as a quick action
  • Electrical lasso with difficulty is scary, but it has counterplay and you can just turn it off
• Brigand clearly worked better with NPCs that force saves
  • Yep... That's why I gave it to those ones

Howler

• Pebcac does NOT clear lock on from blood hunt because it is NOT a tech action.
• Didn't really exist long enough to perform it's job easily, objectives were spread out and harder to focus down and hold a point so it didn't do much.
• It was scary and ran up to the artillery before getting slappped by knockback 5
• Inconclusive data
  • Point was too large to contest all of it
  • Smaller points, it joined the fight too late to grab the smaller points.

Elite Capacitor

• Looks scary
  • "If it didn't get nuked by a nelson it would have been so annoying I think"
  • "Temu Emperor"
• Power surge feels solid
  • Easily deal withable
• Cyclic discharge feels counterintuitive to it's own design
  • Feels odd as it doesn't feel like it wants to be attacking enemies outside of attacking it's allies.
  • "NPCs feeling specialised makes them feel good, getting them out of the situation they're strong makes them fall apart, Cyclic discharge reverts what it wants to do, the impair in an AOE feels potent but the bonus damage feels odd"
  • I personally never wanted to use this trait because it got ganked, it feels like a last resort to use OR when it's comfortable but it doesn't feel worth it to sacrifice its survivability for bonus damage. It can't really be used in a "last ditch effort" because if it's in the ditch it probably has no overshield. Also the bonus damage is halved if it catches more than 1 player in the AOE
• Purified lightning never came up

Not too much data

But your sitreps REMAIN being badass

[vagrant grotto]

this is all helpful, thank you!

glad the sitreps turned out well! 😄

[muted blaze]

Simultaneous hybrid sitreps are kinda sick

I think I need more of them in my life

[vagrant grotto]

hell yeah

[muted blaze]

I did have howler with the range 1s, as I mentioned. Sitrep didn't really help it

[vagrant grotto]

How many rounds did it take for them to complete, out of curiosity?

[muted blaze]

5

I removed the blitz part to "unlock" the objects

So it was just collect + gauntlet + extract

So it was basically 2 short ones into a medium

[vagrant grotto]

okay got it, just pick em up and walk away

[muted blaze]

Ye

I had to up the saturation of activations to make sure the players didn't rinse the sitrep to get good data

In retrospect I would have moved the points 2-4 tiles further away and increased the gauntlet points to 6 (4 players)

It was my IGF face to a name map with the small hangar in the ship

[vagrant grotto]

Having run Brigands with Jury Rigged and now Flimsy Tricks: Which do you prefer (and why)?

noted on Cyclic discharge feeling antisynergistic

[muted blaze]

Yeah so a lot of the comments were from the PCs, it was never used but I broadly agreed with the PCs comments

I never really wanted to use it, but also a nelson dove into the backline and fucking rinsed it

Also TIL, pyros burst 3 heat aura does NOT care if the characters in it are hostile, they WILL take 3 heat and WILL have difficulty on burn checks

[ashen crown]

Ya know I just realized- PPG makes tech actions a core part of a lot of NPC kits, inadvertently making Hacker 2 a lot more useful

Fun!

[viscid ingot]

Downside? Impaired Impaired Impaired +2 Heat into Stress.

Player gets Reactor Stressed

[ashen crown]

That PEBCAC thing is completely true and now makes me realize how confusing that can be (but also necessary to keep around because there’s a lot of non-techs that apply Lock On, such as Marker Rifle).

[placid glacier]

ooof threat 1? that's a rough nerf

[vagrant grotto]

it's provisional, may not be needed

[placid glacier]

fair

unrelated: did make an Anchor and Capacitor for the ||Bem Honore Bicam|| in Wallflower

[next jewel]

I feel like hack/slash really needs to be saves instead of checks so that they don't get outscaled in later tiers when all the npc's who want to make tech attacks' systems scale

Correct me if I'm wrong, I have only seen it used once in T1 (and the witch beat the save and wasn't really affected since it mostly just wanted to tear down anyway)

[next jewel]

Like it's already gonna be tough to hit a tech attacker with it since they tend to have high edef

[frosty karma]

that doesn't conflict with anything ASquare said no? And because PPG make tech actions more viable to more npc classes, it, in a way, also make hack/slash more usable?

[next jewel]

Yeah I just feel like it'd need more to be even useable

Like sure there are more potential targets but it suffers the same difficulties against them so I still wouldn't wanna spend a quick on it like ever

[round patrol]

hello gamers

anyone have a link to the homebrew rules revisions

@vagrant grotto

[vagrant grotto]

Which ones

PPG has a pile of optional rules I keep up to date

[round patrol]

There's multiple?

Ummm

[vagrant grotto]

They’re in different places doing different things

[round patrol]

All I have is know github one but send them all

[vagrant grotto]

Systemic rules changes are in PPG

[round patrol]

Oh the hb rebalances

[vagrant grotto]

Player frame stuff is here: https://github.com/msprijatelj/valk-lancer-houserules/blob/main/DOCUMENTATION.md

[round patrol]

Not the system rules change

[vagrant grotto]

Note: with each passing day my github HB becomes more and more out of date

Use with caution

[round patrol]

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO

[vagrant grotto]

It’s due for an update from player feedback

[round patrol]

I LOVE HB REBALANCE

YEAHHHHHH

[muted blaze]

Oh interesting

I never noticed these

Wait no, what's this from?

[vagrant grotto]

Maria’s rules

Which I link in my docs

[muted blaze]

Ok fair

I have a comment about it but like, it's not yours so no point bringing it up here

[vagrant grotto]

I trust Maria made the adjustments for play at Maria’s tables

But yes not really up for discussion

[muted blaze]

Ye

[next jewel]

HB?

[vagrant grotto]

Homebrew

[sudden cosmos]

Heck yeah PPG-ified wallflower

[viscid ingot]

Seeing people make custom tokens for Homebrew NPCs is always a treat because it opens a lot of creative ways to iterate visually how the NPC would function.

[sudden cosmos]

I ended up having to make my own capacitor for Wallflower, which was a bit annoying

Got there eventually

Legs are a little long though

But regarding a PPG-ified wallflower, ||Regret|| is going to be, rather obviously, ||a Howler||

Also they're getting a ||Ghost|| buddy in that fight. It's two ultras.

https://tenor.com/view/ornstein-smough-ornstein-and-smough-dark-souls-from-software-gif-27217826

On some of this type shit

[viscid ingot]

Do either of them get buffed when the other dies first?

[sudden cosmos]

Absolutely

||The ghost gets the Ripper Claws and Supreme Melee. The howler gets Maxwell's Demon and Fortress||

[next jewel]

Siiiick🔥

[sudden cosmos]

I also did some "we are pre operation emperor" nonsense where the NPC pattern group was listed as "???" and there was no indication of the NPCs name in the scan data

It was all "this unit" or phrasing things so it didn't say "the capacitor"

[vagrant grotto]

Love that shit, the real Prototype Pattern Groups

[tired sage]

Hey valk for future reference is this a good place to post feed back about your github house rules? My players are interested in doing some test combats using the changes

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah probably but honestly it’s hella out of date

[tired sage]

Where would it be more up to date? I know there's a lot of stuff in the back of ppg but the mech changes seem pretty sick to me

[vagrant grotto]

The mech changes have a lot of feedback that I have yet to incorporate

Some are okay (Zheng iirc), others are meh (Goblin, Gorgon)

[tired sage]

Ah I see. Well I hope at least you keep the goblin ability to steal a hostile tech action cause at least on paper thats just really cool and flavorful

[vagrant grotto]

I might, but in a cleaner way

[round patrol]

i know ppg is still a wip but

[vagrant grotto]

It’s very… specific and iffy

[round patrol]

maybe instead a limit on the amount of characters?

But not sure

have not used warp nades at all

[vagrant grotto]

PPG is never including frame balances

[round patrol]

ah

for this doc then

[vagrant grotto]

I did. The limit is 1

[drifting parcel]

Working on a KTB coded Vulture

[vagrant grotto]

Oh heck yeah

[drifting parcel]

The player is a soft nice lil engineer dude who likes to modify his mech

So his evil ass clone needs to be a vulture

[ashen crown]

Would it be a bad idea to make it so that Baseline (as in “unless the sitrep says so assume it’s this”) make it so that Interacting with objectives can be a Free Action if you have Manipulators or are a Pilot?

Not as a PPG implementation just for my own usage

[vagrant grotto]

I don’t mind, if you try it lemme know how it goes

[ashen crown]

Narratively it doesn’t really work for the next… 2 combats, but perhaps after that. I really just enjoy any excuse to make the AI tag + manipulators more useful

[harsh widget]

Ran into another interesting prism interaction last night when a player threw a warp grenade at a prismatic projector to teleport the prism into the blast from its far away position.

[placid glacier]

I made a couple Machine tokens for PPG stuff before

[placid glacier]

I was considering making my ||Bicam|| Capacitor an Anomaly for that exact reason lol

[ashen crown]

How I would make “Like Antennas to Heaven” a mission with Valk Sitreps:

Combat 1: a Seize into Transport (Escape) to ascend the Earthmover, with Seize being to activate an elevator or jump pad to get on top of it. If the entire group can fly or something they can fly past and skip the Seize part, but the OpFor will still be dangerous deterrents especially with Pyros loading up walls, burn, and heat to those trying to fly up directly.

Combat 2: A mixed Purge/Wreck Sitrep, to destroy the Earthmover Defense system. Instead of 3 objectives there are 7, each needing 1 point to be scored on them to be destroyed. They also have NPC activations but cannot be harmed like regular NPCs, instead acting as objectives and 2 reinforce after 1 is destroyed (the Mortars are Bombards, the Missile Launchers are Immobilized Aces, the Laser Platform is a Capacitor, and the Blue Projectile Posts are Rainmakers)

Combat 3: A Ruin Sitrep to destroy a series of Idols to open up a path up the Earthmover, leading into an Escape. Have a harmful fluid rise and cut off various parts of the arena as this goes on too- technically no enemies should be here but this is Lancer add like 3.

Combat 4: A Vanquish against the Earthmover Brain into a Quell to escape the Earthmover during detonation, with a time limit being added for the Quell. Cleanest way to run this would probably be split it into 2 back to back combat scenes budgeted as one combat but if you can figure out how to connect the maps be my guest.

Ideally, the pacing is set up such that a rest is capable of taking place between each fight.

[ashen crown]

Made a medium blitz map for 4 players (the 1's are the Blitz Objectives), any critiques? The lava is... well lava, and it's difficult terrain that deals damage + mitigates the Heat resistance granted by the weather

I thought it was funny initially to put one of the objectives just in the middle of a lava pool but now that I'm thinking about it that's pretty mean

I'm also realizing that I may have made the map too crowded cause there's some Barricades and a Knight on this map

The snow doesn't do anything btw that's just there for aesthetics

Neither does the ice

[vagrant grotto]

Nah, Jump exists

[vagrant grotto]

Also nah, it’s good

[ashen crown]

I guess being on top of it... would count as being adjacent. But unless you do that one last as soon as you claim it (I'm flavoring these as objects being stowed into the mechs), you'll just immediately fall into the lava. Hell even in the fiction you'll just immediately fall in

I'll leave exactly one tile exposed lol

[ashen crown]

hm... the combat will have a scout and an Assassin... would it be stupid to make the snow size 1/2 soft cover?

you know what that's too funny for me not to do it lmao

[silent wedge]

Alright, should be running quite a few of the PPG classes in the coming weeks.

IIRC the first mission has Knight, Prism, Capacitor, Zealot, Boombox, Howler, and Ghost.

[ashen crown]

Dear lord

Speaking of which I gotta relocate the PPG playtest sheet again

[silent wedge]

It's 4 total combats, so not that large a percentage in the grand scheme of things.

Only one or two mixed in per combat.

I'm running modified Iphigenia at Midnight, so I will have to figure out what a Boombox is doing in a highly utilitarian military detachment though 🤔 . Probably a standard-bearer with concussive sound weapons or something.

[ashen crown]

I’m doing 5 combats and only using 4 PPG NPCs lmao… granted I’m using them multiple times for thoroughness but still

Unfortunately Mesmerist is fully tested and Knight is mostly tested so like. Not a lot to playtest. But I’m mainly just using them for me lol

[silent wedge]

I just think they're neat. Plus I've been doing a lot of encounter design with exclusively core NPCs due to writing a whole campaign module, so I've been itching to finally have more options again.

It's like I've dropped the training weights

[ashen crown]

I’d be running Torrents, but i have to choose between running them or running Cataphracts and I both miss Cataphracts and think they’re more thematically appropriate to the KTB and don’t wanna send too many new NPCs at my players at once.

They won’t be free forever tho.

[silent wedge]

It also helps(?) that IAM doesn't abide by the general advice of 5 NPC types per combat at all. The average fight seems to have like 8 of them.

[ashen crown]

In my personal experience of doing that a lot, it’s not worth it except in rare circumstances where a combat is supposed to be a slaughter. Still when it’s fun it’s fun

[silent wedge]

I'm going to try doing it with the more chaotic NPC rosters for the first mission and if it's too much to juggle I'm switching off

[vagrant grotto]

See pins

[ashen crown]

How did I not think of that

[sharp eagle]

tokens arent finished but I'm doing modified IaM right now as well. This is my 1-3, which is instead of a Holdout now a Sieze(Gauntlet)+Fortify(Survive)

I have had to change the maps a lot since my main problem with IaM is that the maps are ... strange

but especially with this being a Seize/Fortify the map needed to be smaller

then 2-1 also got a makeover, now a Control with a Veteran Capacitor Ship and a Marine Knight as the set pieces

if anyone's got any suggestions as to a secondary objective here, i'm open to it

-# thinking maybe they can score a point towards winning by taking out the ship? vanquish?

[vagrant grotto]

layering objectives on top of each other is fun and profitable, if Al's experience is anything to go by

just keep em short-to-medium and don't overload them

taking out the ship to drive up the points is good, offering many avenues to "scoring" or pushing things towards a conclusion is good

[sharp eagle]

it's a medium control rn, and when the ship shows up as reinforcements, the camera will pan to it and a new subgoal will pop up on the left lol

[viscid ingot]

I would love to see the macro for that, a very useful way to automate boss encounter announcements.

[tame wharf]

@vagrant grotto how do you turn off the tool tip for a token?

[vagrant grotto]

go to the Resources tab on the token and toggle it off

[tame wharf]

👍

[opaque crescent]

LF2 for impromptu PPG playtest tonight at <t:1778868000:t>, react with🕴️for interest :>

[muted blaze]

Unless my actual lancer game is on (which I don't think it is) I can be available

[vagrant grotto]

Can’t make it but have fun!

[round patrol]

When are the hb rebalance tests again?

[round patrol]

faaaah that’s too late for me

[vagrant grotto]

When I have time lol

Quarter 2 is a mess

[round patrol]

Understandable

[sudden cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[frosty karma]

may I ask what house rule would you apply for this playtest?

[opaque crescent]

all of valk's

typical ppg playtest ruleset

so pretty much everything from the ppg appendixes plus captain morgan

[ashen crown]

This feels pedantic to bring up but I feel like it’s worth asking about:

Retreat states that doing it automatically counts as a Defeat, but many of the Sitrep Partial Victory conditions rely on Retreating to trigger. Is that something that should be left worded as is or should there be an “or Partial Victory” added to “treating it as PC Defeat”? There’s plenty of room and it’s at least a bit of preventative against mix ups

[vagrant grotto]

Specific beats general

[ashen crown]

Fair enough

[vagrant grotto]

Retreat is generally defeat

Objectives are specifically permissive of retreat

[ashen crown]

The only Sitrep that lacks a partial defeat condition is Triangulate, but if you’re combining sitreps I suppose you’re likely removing a few of the written in Partial Victory conditions in order to be left with just the one

[muted blaze]

I thinnk I had an idea for what to do for my playtest tomorrow

||"Here's an enemy, it's type is unknown. Anyway it's armour is facing downwards"||

[vagrant grotto]

||They scan it, and it’s a Tempest with MBT plating. The armor is facing downwards towards the ground. It’s flying at elevation 5.||

[ashen crown]

Ya know it just hit me:

Quell baseline rules is actually a fantastic way to run a fight where the best outcome is “fight til surrender” instead of “fight til death.” Which sounds… like I’m just saying what a Quell is, but I mean if you want to emulate the fiction of fighting someone you don’t want to fight and are trying to put down non-lethally.

I would just need to change it such that total victory comes from meeting the point threshold and partial victory comes from winning with total enemy destruction (each case giving a different outcome ofc) (and defeat would involve retreat or defeat for the combat I have in mind for reasons)

Cause if you play the best you possibly can, you can leave the target you want to spare damaged but undestroyed and still win

[vagrant grotto]

Hell you can leave them all alive if they’re a bunch of Veterans and you just take 1 structure from each of them

[ashen crown]

Exactly- granted that almost makes it harder than a standard Quell because it means total victory can become inaccessible if you take enough structure damage, but I think that’s cool and also really makes sense within the fiction

[visual nest]

||Horrendous, I like it||

[sharp eagle]

What sitrep would be best to emulate the players being ambushed? I had an idea for a fight where they have to shut doors to keep the enemies from pouring in, turning off the ingress zones and locking the enemies out of the repair shaft theyre in

[ashen crown]

Sounds like a Fortify to me

Or a Blitz mixed with a Fortify

[vagrant grotto]

I like all this for modifying an objective

What’s the players’ goal in this fight?

Because I like these as map gimmicks but less so as objectives, though I’d be down for a “close all the doors” objective

[ashen crown]

You could do a Blitz but move the ability for enemies to take back objectives from Fortify into it

[muted blaze]

What's the context of the ambush

[ashen crown]

Or have it be a Quell mixed with a Blitz

Where if you close all the doors OR kill enough enemies (maybe have both be the win condition to be safe) you win

[muted blaze]

Are the players just manoeuvring, supply column, etc

[vagrant grotto]

Straight up I just wanna know what the players’ goal is because that’s what informs the objective at the end of the day

[ashen crown]

I can guess that “it’s an ambush and they just need to survive” which makes it sound like a. Survive Sitrep. But then the door closing becomes disconnected from the actual objective and that sounds like that’s not the goal

[sharp eagle]

the setup is that the players are infiltrating a warship through its torpedo tubes and the shipboard security unit has cut off their approach and intercepted them

their goal is to keep moving along the path and not get killed by the security squad

[muted blaze]

So they have no reason to hold their ground?

A simple escape would work

[vagrant grotto]

Okay then id use Transport (Escape) with the unique mechanic of being able to shut off doors

Love that shit

[sharp eagle]

nod nod

[vagrant grotto]

I used the same sort of thing in Technophobia

[sharp eagle]

if you wouldn't mind sharing that encounter i'd love to take a look at that

[muted blaze]

Or the opposite, something like a blitz, search or gauntlet to get to a door that's been locked on them to open it to escape afterwards

[vagrant grotto]

Run over and turn off the minion fabricator

[muted blaze]

Potentially have the kill everyone fight but an elite/veteran/commander ambush captain has the key to go forward. So kill the commander, grab their keys open a door and fuck off works too

[vagrant grotto]

It’s paid but basically it’s a Default Escort or Extraction (depending on where PCs enter) and there’s Interactibles that let players either zap an ingress zone or shut one or two zones down (there are 4, 2 per side)

[ashen crown]

Honestly the more I think about this the more it sounds like a super fun puzzle encounter. Also makes me appreciate Quell a lot more it’s way deeper than I initially gave it credit for

[placid glacier]

investigate the factory
no
no
no

[sharp eagle]

hello mr valkyrion. if I am fielding a Prototype MBT, can I choose weapons from other mechs?

as in, do these two interact?

[dapper goblet]

I'm not valk but your answer is going to be "Prototype is inherently voiding your warranty in a bunch of ways, and the armaments is more "here's what you should do with these slates of options" than a true limitation"

[silent wedge]

Oh damn, I didn't even clock that prototype has official cross-classing.

None of the "this NPC can take from this pool of optionals" traits are set in stone. They're just best-practices guidelines.

[sharp eagle]

nod nod .. hm . i am thinking about putting this weapon on my MBT in place of its heavy weapon but I'm not sure. I want something that has self-heat since the MBT also has Pyro's Explosive Vent and Overclocked from the Prototype template

this is what it's looking like besides its weapons rn.

The idea being that this is a TBK-ready seccomm tank that would be deployed alongside Worldkillers and other similar mechs

[next jewel]

My last combat was this:3

(They never turned off the minion fabricator the intended way they may have realised they could just break the conveyors bringing the not fully assembled minions with xiaoli's tenacity+charged blade + maybe an jshabti shot if that wasn't enough)

[vagrant grotto]

Technically if it doesn’t get optional features, it doesn’t benefit from Prototype features

But practically: sure whatever pick something and slap it on, I’m not your dad

[visual nest]

How does Extrude Knife works with Hatchet's traits like Cleaving Retrieval or Flip Kick considering that there is just more knifes

[ashen crown]

Those two traits do not interact- MBT’s Armament’s trait is a hard requirement that does not count against it’s optional budget, and Prototypes feature is a suggestion that does count against the MBT’s optional budget

Now ofc because the Prototype voids warranties you can always ignore the MBT Armament’s feature, but RAW, you need to pick 1 MBT Heavy and 1 MBT Main in addition to your optionals

[vagrant grotto]

It can retrieve dropped knives as normal

There’s just [always more knives]

[visual nest]

Oh so you litterally have an infinite amount of knife to throw xD

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah it’s literally always extruding knives

Following its ABCs:

• Always
• Be
• C[extruding knives]

[ashen crown]

eCkstruding knives

[muted blaze]

PPG

Prototype

Novel technology

• FOrgotten once
• First playtest been in for Water with a Prototype without a a chomo
• MBT was scanned IMMEDIATELY
• One time seen prototype killed through difficulty
• Gets more interesting to scan them the more activations they have
  • MBT scanned immediately, assault was never scanned

Firewall Molt

• Was on a prototype commander elite MBT
• Considerably more tame than pprevious time used
• Was quite accessible to be shot
• Blocked an OSIRIS gate 1 and lock on
• Felt fair because it was known, only suprises you once
• If this was on a hornet or ace this could have been BAD
  • It was missed twice in a main/aux skirmish
• It can also trigger off the scan, making the Novel technology stick
  • That's funny
• How does it make saves if grenades are thrown at it that isn't the raleigh grenade?

Rebaked bio plating

• They all died before they could run up walls 😭

Sitrep

Holdout

• Good, wish if NPCs with multi-activations couldn't double tap and spam it.
• Players with it was 1/round
  • MBT was heavy frame, and kept popping the objective
  • Was only moved via 1st gate, multi-structure multi-activation NPC could have only been moved by a big character
• Also hard to contest the objective because you need to be next to the guy next to the objective NOT the objective.
  • When you CAN contest them, you have a chance to nullify their thing.
  • PCs also had fetch simultaneously so players had to spread out, making contesting it harder.

Fetch

• Was a mix between short and medium length, objective distance I think is more important than number of objectives as this one ran 8 rounds in length
• Fetch was nice, the fact they're not objects to carry felt good.
  • Carrying an object is fine if it's only 1, multiple is not as good if
• Was very silly but nice to hand them around

Small amount of PPG content from tonights playtest

[vagrant grotto]

thanks for the feedback!

[ashen crown]

Valk, how do you recommend naming making combat maps meant to have their Sitrep decided in the moment rather than at the maps inception?

Actually I’m realizing this request is not PPG Sitrep specific and I can just ask #gm-corner

[vagrant grotto]

"naming combat maps" what do you mean

[ashen crown]

Oops typo

*making

[vagrant grotto]

Ah

make them like any other map

just don't care about "objective layout"

do it fiction first

ask "what is the space this map represents"

think about the world, not the objective

[ashen crown]

I suppose I have a few anxieties to get over when it comes to that, namely knowing what places need maps without thinking “but why would they fight there -> well if they’d fight there for x reason than it needs this Sitrep”, and also fearing a layout that’s not tailor made for the Sitrep will be less than preferable. But that’s just a me thing I suppose,

[vagrant grotto]

https://critpoints.net/2018/02/18/good-fps-map-design/

high key make maps that are lived-in

I'll be real, I don't often make my own maps, and use premades, so like, take this all with a pound of salt

but the way I view it, you'll likely be preparing what the location is gonna be anyway

like, narratively, in fiction

use that to inform the design

the PCs aren't strolling through Blocktown

(unless they are)

[ashen crown]

I’m also way too picky about things and every time I look through my map repertoire I think “but that’s not exact enough- I’ll just make my own!” so I really need to adjust my standards and realize “not exact” is often better

[vagrant grotto]

the world isn't exact

[ashen crown]

To be fair the last mission and the current one is technically Block Town in that the layout is artificial and designed for mech combat intentionally

[vagrant grotto]

alright so that actually informs the design

you know it's a town, and it's made of blocks

how would the creators have put the layout together?

[ashen crown]

Huh, good point

[vagrant grotto]

did they want to emulate city blocks? were they going for some sort of modern art? Or were they trying to remake Hang 'Em High from the hit Original Xbox game Halo: Combat Evolved?

[ashen crown]

Personally I feel like the best maps i’ve made (out of a sample size of. 4.) tend to go for “dilapidated infrastructure,” where I first go about trying to logically create a layout and then have entropy break it down enough to act as a game board

If I just dialed it back with the 2nd step I think I already have enough of the muscle memory to make decent Sitrep agnostic maps 🤔

[vagrant grotto]

also, sometimes a map can very obviously lend itself to a certain kind of objective while still supporting others

[ashen crown]

Also a good point- I saw Al do that last time i was in a combat they ran, and they re-used an IGF map with a different Sitrep

[vagrant grotto]

every gauntlet can be inverted to holdout, Escort could even invert to Holdout

Seize and blitz can be very similar depending on objective location

[ashen crown]

And that worked fun

I think I just need to not overthink it lol

[vagrant grotto]

yeah overthinking it is the mindkiller

my goal for modular objectives was to be fiction first, top-down design

so naturally, make the map the same way

[ashen crown]

I could probably stick with an approach of “realistic floor plan first, add in logical terrain, then add illogical terrain for game design + remove elements if necessary”

[sharp eagle]

Iphigenia at Midnight light spoilers: I'm using NPCs from this book in my IaM game, and in case anyone else is, here are some tokens kitbashed by me and colored by @shadow surge (who is also making tokens for the rest of the NPCs in that module!) Here is a Knight, a Torrent, and a Vulture.

I'm really excited to use the Knight, by the way. Might be my favorite NPC in the whole book

[silent wedge]

Ooh, these are very cool. I was just using the cataphract token for the knight before

[sharp eagle]

I plan to also make tokens for the Zealot (second favorite NPC), Ire, and Prism from PPG

hey--while I'm talking about tokens--valk, what do you imagine a zealot to look like?

[silent wedge]

Obviously I'm not Valk but to me those types of characters always seem to have flails

and flails are also just very cool and underutilized

The emberlight nexus could be a censer or something too

Maybe it's both. Censer flails are cool. Anyway, that's just the two cents of a third party

[umbral sluice]

I actually asked this one before, it was specifically about retrograde tokens but hopefully this could be useful

I dont know how to forward messages on mobile

[visual nest]

I don't really know why but I see the Anchor as the Rival Caretaker from DRG.
Not that it really fit into Lancer, floating like that.

[muted blaze]

Damn, thems old screenshots

[umbral sluice]

I know 💀 , I was still smallest

[sharp eagle]

it's not colored yet, but this is what i ended up bashing for the zealot. (rockets because of an optional from its template) but i think the most important part of a zealot's visuals is probably that it has some kind of aura

[vagrant grotto]

Similarish to the MOI Solomon: robes, slight frame, exultant pose

Ah good you already got an answer

[muted blaze]

One of the first times I ran a zealot, I flavoured it as a Hecatonchares with a nano swarm that buffed allies

[ashen crown]

Question: would you say that Short, Medium, and Long duration sitreps have significant differences in their contributions to Mission-Long attrition, or is the difference somewhat negligible/has too much variance to reliably say?

[vagrant grotto]

Yes absolutely they affect mission long attrition

I’d guesstimate 3 mediums per full repair

Maybe 4

[ashen crown]

So I’m thinking I can maybe make a mission of almost entirely short combats for a one-or-two shot I plan on throwing at some friends of mine, and making Core Batteries be a reward for combat performance rather than something they start with. Think that could work?

I’m guesstimating 1 short combat scene would take about a half hour, 45 minutes. Specifically with PPG sitreps

[vagrant grotto]

Legitimately full length missions are my biggest Blindspot in play testing everything in PPG. if you can run a full mission play test and let me know how that goes, I will be deeply appreciative.

[ashen crown]

Will do!

My plan is probably to make one large map, make a faction roster, and then make the players directors/stunt actors for an action film and for them to choose scenarios for them to do “on set,” and then I quickly throw together a combat to fit that

And then repeat that for about 3-4 combats

[sharp eagle]

how's this for an Ire? I wasn't happy with the Zealot but i wanted to salvage the token for something else

[vagrant grotto]

I can dig it

Looks very unstable haha

[muted blaze]

That's gonna explode

As it should

Happily flailin' things as it does

[frosty karma]

Hey Valk, is there a compilation pdf or github place for your design note or your thoughts process when you remade the !v! components? I'm kinda curious and want to learn more about that

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah I discuss my thoughts in the documentation itself

https://github.com/msprijatelj/valk-lancer-houserules/blob/main/DOCUMENTATION.md

[frosty karma]

ty, I didnt scroll down far enough last time i see XP

[round patrol]

unusual question

coming from someone with limited knowledge

with opcal and autostab gone, how are players going to be able to address the scaling damage of npcs?

is it solley with their option options?

note that idk if Lancer needs scaling damage and I havent really seen how “damage scaling” plays out in lacner with npcs getting more hp and damage but players not

[vagrant grotto]

Players have scaling HP, they’ll be fine vs NPC scaling damage

As for players dealing damage: they will get more damage options and more stacking accuracy over time

[round patrol]

Aaah ok

npc hp scales too so thats why I asked

[vagrant grotto]

Player options are hella flat, is the thing

Most of their damage power comes from combining tools together, but you can usually get those tools very quickly and very soon. But it’s fairly consistent damage across all tiers

Replacing Opcal and Autostab means that the fastest Time To Kill is slower, that’s all

So like, no I don’t want to compensate for those

The problem is that they’re overused and overcompensating on their own

So, players instead gotta invest in licensed gear to get their damage, or accept the new mods instead

[frosty karma]

op cal when its truly op

[round patrol]

Actually what are the player options to boost damage?

[vagrant grotto]

Opcal the mod
Autostab the mod (accuracy = higher expected damage)
NucCav
Crack shot (and other weapon talents that give acc and/or bonus damage)
Nelson Thermal Charge
Death’s Head assorted accuracy systems
Roland Chamber
Nanocomposite Adaptation
Paracausal Mod

Hunter lock

Like, there’s a lot of options

[round patrol]

mhm

[vagrant grotto]

Opcal and Autostab as core bonuses means they stack with everything else

I prefer encouraging folks to go wide over deep

[dapper goblet]

Also mod slots aren’t an extremely crowded space in lancer so the real hit is the SP

[silent wedge]

Is it though? Core bonuses are usually much more valuable than an SP cost from my experience.

I don't know where the autostab/OPCal mods are located or how much SP they cost though so that might change things.

[dapper goblet]

They’re GMS, my point is more that “the cost of them as mods is more heavily on the SP than mod slot side” not “mods with a couple SP cost are a core bonus.

Though, note that a 4SP system is roughly equivalent commitment wise to a core bonus at some points in the game for many mechs (in terms of % of those resources you have to commit

[umbral sluice]

GMS, both 2sp, available at LL0

but you dont need a CB for them

(they are noticeably a lot weaker than the CB)

[vagrant grotto]

See here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ModxKO46FcsswE3ZNie_jTSewhlfD5DGZZhaRsfITp8/edit

[ashen crown]

So I'm brainstorming for a short mission I'm gonna run my friends through where they're playing as Stunt Actors for the Antagonists for a Film, and one of the players says he wants to be a Manticore Pilot really looking forward to blowing up for SFX purposes.

Naturally one of the OpFor officers is gonna be a rival Actor piloting an Ire and getting really pissed off he stole his role.

[silent wedge]

Ooh, I love the changes to HMG and AMR as well

[umbral sluice]

reliable 4 HMG feels really nice to play with yeah

[silent wedge]

AMR is actually the same damage on average as the NPC version now

[silent wedge]

Just double skirmish a hornet to death deterministically

[next jewel]

Not possible in 1 turn cuz overcharge rework but with funky turn order shenanigans u can probably make it work. And at worst you have to live through one more hornet turn

[silent wedge]

There's always initiative, and there's always the fact that GMs might be taking from it piecemeal when it comes to reworks

[ashen crown]

Among the PPG NPCs that need testing, do y’all think these fit the theme of “Actors Playing Cops/Security Guards”?

• Boombox
• Knight
• Torrent?
• Vulture

Ire, Hatchet, and Prism I can probably have as special commanders if I can fit ‘em in (flavored as Vigilantes), I’m only really unsure about if I can make Torrents work somehow

Also, if I had it in mind to like. Use an Ultra each combat during a mission testing PPG sitreps, specifically combats are are just 1 short Sitrep, do y’all think that would muddy the results too much?

I’m trying to figure out how to balance a mission of entirely short combats and wondering if using frequent Ultras would be a good way to make them more active - not necessarily harder though since I do plan on keeping the action budget the same. And it gives me an excuse to test some PPG Ultra Optionals

[placid glacier]

security Boombox would make sense honestly- reflavoring dancing stuff as like. police spotlights and "get on the ground" type beat (pun not intended)

[ashen crown]

No yeah it’d be sick

Certainly fits better than Zealot in regards to Aura Support

[ashen crown]

I think I can also flavor the Torrents as like. Jails. With Drown in Nanites

Which would be fun af

Now I’m thinking about the Ultra thing tho- uncertain if I should make the Commanders Ultras or not. It’d be heavy Ultra Spam but since the combats use short sitreps they don’t need to be directly dealt with for very long

[fringe patio]

Hoi

[vagrant grotto]

Cyclic Discharge
System, Recharge 5+, Quick Action
The Capacitor loses all OVERSHIELD and cannot gain more until the start of its next turn. Its next attack with the MARATHON ARQUEBUS this turn deals an additional 2/3/4 Energy bonus damage and provides twice the amount of OVERSHIELD to allies.

Thoughts/feelings on this Capacitor Cyclic Discharge rework?

and this take, using the lost Overshield instead:

The Capacitor loses all OVERSHIELD and cannot gain more until the start of its next turn. This turn, the damage dealt and Overshield granted by its next attack with the MARATHON ARQUEBUS are each increased by the amount of OVERSHIELD lost.

The Capacitor loses all OVERSHIELD and cannot gain more until the start of its next turn. On its next attack with the MARATHON ARQUEBUS this turn, the weapon’s damage dealt and OVERSHIELD granted each increase by the amount of OVERSHIELD lost.

I like this wording better

[vagrant grotto]

Working on Ruinous Reactor:

The Ire is IMMUNE to OVERHEATED (CONDITIONS & STATUSES, APPENDIX A). While EXPOSED, the Ire has RESISTANCE to Kinetic, Energy, and Explosive damage and enters an unstable state visible to all characters when destroyed, exploding as per a reactor meltdown (Lancer, p. 81) at the end of the next round.

[ashen crown]

Increasing the damage dealt instead of adding Bonus Damage will make the “bonus damage against multiple targets is halved” clause not trigger, if that’s something you want to trigger. Otherwise I think it’s neat.

[vagrant grotto]

yes that's intended

because fuck bonus damage halving

so fiddly

[dapper goblet]

YEAAAHHH IMMUNITY TO OVERHEAT ON THE IRE

[ashen crown]

Nice, I think increasing the Capacitor’s damage output in general is a good thing personally

[dapper goblet]

IMO it’s just necessary to balance around that as a practical matter so the house rules don’t make it run totally differently

[ashen crown]

It has its reasons but yeah it is pretty fiddly. It’s just that if you wanna get rid of it there’s so many playerside bonus damage sources you have to change

One of those “annoying but necessary” things

[vagrant grotto]

oh yeah, casual reminder that "Overheated" and "Overheating" are two different things

unrelated, dreading reworking Torrent

but it's the next thing on the list, so

[dapper goblet]

Yeah no understood my point was more “if you want to run this in any way that matches 1 stress vs stock rules you have to do this”

Or bake 1 stress into ire but that seems harder

[muted blaze]

I was gonna callout the "on its turn" wording because waiting a turn to OS next round and get double would be nutty

But yeah it looks good

Oh also yeah I like the all in overshield

I'm worried if it leads to VERY CHUNKY enemies thouhh

[vagrant grotto]

It’s recharge at least, and using it on consecutive turns will require vanilla Overcharge

[muted blaze]

What action type is it?

[vagrant grotto]

Cyclic discharge? Quick

So the rotation is

1. Start turn with OS
2. QA Cyclic Discharge
3. QA Skirmish with MarArq

If you want to do it again next turn, you need

• To recharge Cyclic Discharge
• To gain Overshield on your turn before using Cyclic Discharge

This is possible with a Vanilla Overcharge for a MarArq skirmish before following steps 2 and 3

[twin escarp]

I've got to wonder if there's any way for an ally to give it overshield after it's turn starts using a reaction or persistent effect

[vagrant grotto]

Maybe, but at that point they’ve earned it

[twin escarp]

Yeah lol could be fun synergy

[ashen crown]

OpFor: “White Tiger Revenge” aka “All My Homies Hate Xiong Xiaoli”

• Knight
• Priest (Sanctuary)
• Scourer (Melt)
• Napalm (Corrosive Gel)
• Ace

[ashen crown]

(You could replace the Ace with anything that targets E-Def or has heavy emphasis on Systems Saves in the kit)

[ashen crown]

Side note, any NPC with the “stun until start of next turn” gimmick pairs beautifully with a Napalm

Hard to miss when the target has 5 Evasion, and can’t avoid the slow if you auto-fail agility saves

[vagrant grotto]

Thinking of a playtest on either <t:1779559200:F> or <t:1779645600:F>

I know the notice is a little short, but my time’s been short lately

[muted blaze]

Busy 😔

[vagrant grotto]

That’s a mood

[muted blaze]

In good news I'll be off having fun

In bad news I'll be having fun but unable to have more fun

[vagrant grotto]

Very happy it’s the fun kind of busy, then!

[muted blaze]

Truly a 1st world problem

[vagrant grotto]

I’m so tired lol 😭

[muted blaze]

"lol" preceded by a 😭

Tells a tale

[vagrant grotto]

Text equivalent of the mirthless laugh

I have ideas for torrent but gotta hammer them out

Hoping to maybe do that tonight, but depends on other irl stuff

[sudden cosmos]

Saturday

Unavailable Sunday though

[tame wharf]

I can do saturady

[round patrol]

valk, how do i downlaod ur houserole as an lcp?

[vagrant grotto]

https://github.com/msprijatelj/valk-lancer-houserules/releases/download/0.5.1/valk-lancer-houserules-0.5.1.lcp

Under the GitHub releases

[round patrol]

ok

[gaunt heron]

I'm free if you've still got a spot free?

[vagrant grotto]

you're in

that makes 3 players, still have 1 seat open

worst case, I run for 3 + an NPC buddy

[ashen crown]

1 round into a Blitz with a Knight, just did a stun into a Sniper shot

Life is okay actually.

This is the first combat of the mission too and that player already lost a structure

Also it didn’t happen because I already spent the Overwatch, but there was a brief terrifying second where I realized that if I was 1 space away from a Duel target and they were pure melee, I could just Overwatch them the instant they try and advance and stun them again

Which is… worrying to say the least

Since it didn’t happen I can’t really give any feedback on it but it does raise some alarm bells

[vagrant grotto]

if they're attacked once by the sword, they know what's at stake

[ashen crown]

True, all builds need something beyond Threat 1 one way or another

[tame wharf]

is there an intended ll for this fight Valk?

[vagrant grotto]

LL2

[vagrant grotto]

torrent rework incoming

AMORPHOUS    Trait
The Torrent always has soft cover, and it ignores difficult terrain and engagement. Other characters can move through and end their turns in the Torrent’s spaces, and as long as it occupies at least 1 free space, it can move through and end its turn overlapping obstructions, cover, or other characters. However, the Torrent cannot GRAPPLE.

UNDERTOW    Trait
Involuntary movement caused by the Torrent ignores difficult terrain.

Storm Surge
Main Melee, Smart, +1/+2/+3
[Threat 0][4/6/8 Explosive]
To attack with this weapon, the Torrent pushes itself 3 spaces in any direction, making an attack roll against each character whose space it starts in or enters. On a hit, the target is pushed 3 spaces in the same direction as the Torrent’s movement.

Wavebreaker
System, 1 Heat (Self), Quick Action
The Torrent wallops Burst 1 or Cone 3 area. Hostile characters in the area must make a HULL save or be knocked PRONE.

Amorphous's changes are subtle, but basically I make it clear that the Torrent can overlap obstructions and stuff while moving as well as ending its turn. Also, Grapple is banned for the water elemental

Undertow ditches the Prone effect

Storm Surge becomes a weapon; it attacks by passing through an opponent

Wavebreaker becomes a Burst 1 or Cone 3 save vs. Prone; no recharge, just 1 Heat (Self)

[vagrant grotto]

The Torrent wallops a Burst 1 or Cone 3 area. Hostile characters in the area must pass a HULL save or take 4/6/8 Explosive Damage and be knocked PRONE.

Adding a bit of damage to Wavebreaker's save

SCALDING GREYWASH    System
Instead of WAVEBREAKER’s usual effect, the Torrent may instead force hostile characters in the area to pass an AGILITY save or take 2/3/4 Burn and become IMPAIRED until the end of their next turn.

CRASHING TSUNAMI    Trait
The Torrent may choose to double the distance STORM SURGE pushes itself and its targets. If it does so, STORM SURGE must be reloaded before it can be used again (as if it was LOADING). STORM SURGE automatically reloads if the Torrent inflicts PRONE.

Giving Storm Surge the High-Impact Rounds treatment

[ashen crown]

Huh, removing the Grapple ability of the torrent, curious. I remarked on being confused on that when I first read the Torrent purely from a flavor perspective so it’s interesting to see it take mechanical shape.

Storm Surge and Wavebreaker are also now very weird- don’t dislike them they’re just funky now.

[ashen crown]

I personally love High Impact Rounds. Miss it every day in the rebakes lol.

Modifying the existing abilities instead of adding new ones certainly makes the whole kit more cohesive. Also makes it’s abilities more spammable but that’s neither here nor there

[vagrant grotto]

spammable abilites are good in my books, makes the turn much easier

WASH AWAY    Trait
PRONE characters hit by STORM SURGE are SHREDDED until the end of their next turn.

Is this anything

[ashen crown]

I like it

Helps that Storm Surge + the Prone are now tied to two separate effects now

[vagrant grotto]

yeah this is a lot cleaner now

[ashen crown]

Yeah I just now noticed how Wavebreaker is now all just 1 save now which is honestly delightful

I will say, old Torrent operated a little differently because it could knock people back while also not moving right up to them. Which is neat in my books, not a lot of NPCs with big Knockback as something they can spam in order to not be next to guys. But it also definitely wasn’t the intended flavor/mechanics. So this is a lot closer to what’s intended

This also feels like an NPC that now has dominion over the most AoE patterns, as I’d personally consider Storm Surge to be a line effect so that’s 3/4

[ashen crown]

If I can be frank I can’t help but feel like this whenever I stun someone with a Knight https://youtu.be/0_c5UbBdJYo

[vagrant grotto]

yeah, it's a pseudo-line indeed

[sudden cosmos]

An Ultra Ghost with Nova Missiles seems compelling

[ashen crown]

Half damage tho

[sudden cosmos]

yes

an upside, given it's a 5p ultra, so that thing's popping 3 times per round

[ashen crown]

Add in Ontolotactical Array if you have a Field Analyst Raleigh/Autogun User

[sudden cosmos]

(unless the ghost gets dislodged. then it's back up to 4)

[ashen crown]

Specifically just to give them a taste of their own medicine, no other reason

[ashen crown]

4 players or 4 times per round?

[sudden cosmos]

4 damage

wait, it's always intangible during its turn

I thought phase shift was first turn and when bonded for some reason

[tame wharf]

Threat 0 might have some weird interactions? I think just making it Threat 1 and specifying how you attack with it makes more sense IMO

[vagrant grotto]

This is intended to prevent Overwatches

might not outright stop them if they're overlapping though

[ashen crown]

Yeah all weapons have threat 1 by default, this explicitly makes the default, well, not default

Also I’ve always thought SCL Ghost would go crazy, but with the new mechanics introduced SCL Knight or Ire would be monsters

[vagrant grotto]

AMORPHOUS    Trait
The Torrent always has soft cover, ignores difficult terrain and engagement, and cannot GRAPPLE, OVERWATCH, or cause engagement. Other characters can move through and end their turns in the Torrent’s spaces, and as long as it occupies at least 1 free space, it can move through and end its turn overlapping obstructions, cover, or other characters.

Slight additions to Amorphous: Preventing Torrent from using Grapple and Overwatch, as well as preventing it from causing engagement

might be overkill, but it fits the vision I had of this thing where it's not a "keep out" NPC, but a "get off" NPC

[ashen crown]

Is being unable to Overwatch with template weapons worth that?

Not being able to overwatch with Storm Surge feels clear cut to me at least

[vagrant grotto]

it only has one weapon now, and it's Storm Surge

I'm unenthused about how it was really good at just fucking up everything with old Wavebreaker and Overwatch

[ashen crown]

Yeah that’s why I said Template Weapons

Not being able to cause engagement makes sense to me tho, otherwise walking through it becomes difficult. Technically squads proc engagement but they’re size 1/2 for those purposes that’s not gonna happen often

[vagrant grotto]

anyway i'll let the euros weigh in tomorrow morning before setting anything in stone

[frosty karma]

i'd love to join if the playtest is still open for sign up

[vagrant grotto]

Sure, it’s for Saturday and you’re in

[sudden cosmos]

Locking in that opfor for next week with some very PPG-forward experiments

(rebake vet, ultra, and archer)

[vagrant grotto]

2x Archer Formation?? Extra spicy

[sudden cosmos]

They're reinforcements

[vagrant grotto]

Ultra Ghost with no ultra trait?

It’s understandable, I can’t even remember what it does

[sudden cosmos]

Nope. I'm worried the howler will be a little too durable with that up on it.

[sudden cosmos]

Paradox State gives intangible until the end of their next turn

[vagrant grotto]

I think right now my only howler change is reducing its armor to 0? Maybe one or two minor things. I’m leaving the Threat at 2 for now

[vagrant grotto]

I was mostly commenting on how boring and uninspired it was compared to, like, Evergaol lol

[sudden cosmos]

I took out the armor but left it as speed 4 w/ threat 2 since I wasn't sure about the threat 1/2 split

And I didn't want to give it too much reach

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah leave it at 4/5/6 speed

[sudden cosmos]

4 speed 2 threat is still a reach of 6 like 5+1 (obviously boost makes the reach different at 10 vs 11 but sometimes players deserve to not eat shit)

Plus, Puppet Crasher with R&T on threat 2 is VERY funny

[sudden cosmos]

Totally vibes based, but I think Maxwell's Demon and Coherent Entanglement could swap places?

Unless you wanted to make Maxwell something accessible

[vagrant grotto]

I like Maxwell as Veteran Level

[sudden cosmos]

And it stops me from taking it as an ultra (without making it a vet), which is a compelling choice imo

Bolster Network ghost is funny enough as-is.

[vagrant grotto]

Limitless and Veteran go together like peanut butter and jelly, so Maxwell’s demon makes perfect sense there

Had a minor thought about Ultra Ghost though

What if, instead of extending paradox state longer, it could instead use Quantum Bond on any target in its sensor range, teleporting to them and bonding

Go wide instead of tall

[sudden cosmos]

1. I like it
2. I can already hear my players saying "THAT'S BULLSHIT" after double BCL prone-immobilizing it

Idk what I'd drop for it though. I kinda want legion for insurance

[vagrant grotto]

Well I still need to brew it, so we’ll see

[sudden cosmos]

Pre-emptive: why legion if it's intangible?

When it inevitably gets yeeted during not-its-turn because of BCLs on the howler, I want it to put up a little resistance regarding e-defense

Mixing up fortress and legion

[ashen crown]

Helps amend the issue of “what is a support ultra supposed to do if there’s no ally to support” by making the entire team more durable with the Ultra ghost around

[ashen crown]

I have had 1 round running a Knight and the power has already gone to my head

[vagrant grotto]

lol

[ashen crown]

I thought Mesmerist would be my best friend but Knight is quickly just worming its way in there

[vagrant grotto]

good, fucker needs to be a Threat

every day these days I look back at Mesmerist and think "maybe Waterdragon was right, and I should make this Jammed until Start of next turn, why shouldn't I, my precious"

and then I have to shake myself out of it because Recharging tech spells is so cool

[ashen crown]

If you’re still looking for playtest data on that I should be able to report on how it goes 2 combats from now

1 if I can figure out how to slot a Mesmerist into this next fight

[vagrant grotto]

playtest data is always welcomed

[placid glacier]

I am planning on swapping out Praya Cannamos's Goliath in Shadow of the Wolf with a Knight- thinking of something evil with Banner, Punishing Blow, and Valor

[vagrant grotto]

Lemme know how Punishing Blow goes with the new microstun, please!

[placid glacier]

I saw the sneak attack reccomended pairing and I was like "Oh that would be super flavorful with the Assassin in this combat"

[ashen crown]

I’m testing that too but the Knight got grappled so any Punishing Blow chances got shut down. Still, there’s hope in future combats

[vagrant grotto]

NONLOCAL ENTANGLEMENT (ULTRA)    Trait

QUANTUM BOND may be used to bond with one tangible allied character in the Ghost’s SENSORS. When it does so, the Ghost teleports to share one of the target’s spaces.

new take on Ghost's ultra trait

questions/comments/concerns?

[ashen crown]

I like!

[silent wedge]

So to clarify, the only current nerf from 1.22 howler is the armor?

[vagrant grotto]

correct, that's all I'm doing at the moment

[vagrant grotto]

Update to 1.23!

[muted blaze]

Gaming

[sharp eagle]

(my IaM players do not click!!) I think I'm pretty happy after messing around a bunch with this weird-ass, definitely voided-warranty ||prototype MBT|| I'm going to sic on my players. do we think this seems fun?

this is more or less an ||MBT with Nuke Cav||

[vagrant grotto]

Ohohoho lemme know how it goes

[sharp eagle]

||(for a dude named Firewalker 1-1 "Old Smoke" i think this is a pretty fitting build)||

[sharp eagle]

i plan to. and if anyone wants to test run the sitrep against it, let me know

i'm usually available to run things in the window between <t:1779516000:t> and <t:1779447600:t>

bonus: ||RipCurl and I are working on the sprite for it but here's the sketch|| mwehehe

[ashen crown]

||wait can’t MBT’s not make non-Ram Melee attacks due to being a Vehicle/having an equivalent trait?||

[vagrant grotto]

||shhhhhhhh let the thing use the Thunder Lance||

Let the warranties be voided

[ashen crown]

||still, better reword the trait so scanners don’t try and call you out||

[sharp eagle]

||ahhh you're right||

||i mainly took it because it lets me boost, using the MBT's Tank Shock, and heats me up. if there's a better weapon in the Prototype's kit...||

[vagrant grotto]

Void the warranty

[sharp eagle]

I mean this thing's already customized to hell and back

[vagrant grotto]

||https://youtu.be/LKXl3zR7GwI||

[sharp eagle]

it's the final big miniboss before the real final boss and it's supposed to (at least in MY game) represent an extremely unique TBK weapon--there's only one of them in this whole fleet and given that it's been 500 years its likely the only one still running

[sharp eagle]

||https://youtu.be/B8bJG71P-i8?si=cyFAWwvwiGLkb7ht||

||minus the hovering/flying, i imagine it moving like this||

skating, more or less

[tawny estuary]

I mean just toss in this trait from NPC+ Haul and call it a day ||(well, assuming you can give it the power to overcharge and therefore get the extra necessary action to boost and full action skirmish)||

lovesick | june ↩️

[Reply to:](#1254229800952922193 message) ||i mainly took it because it lets me boost, using the MBT's Tank Shock, and heats me up. if there's||…

||Tbh I feel vehicles should only be barred from making improvised melee attacks, it's really silly that you basically can't use CRB vehicle templates on melee NPCs, but such is life.||

[sharp eagle]

that's the beauty of TTRPGs. i can just say "my vehicle can!" and call it a day

[silent wedge]

Damn, I'm unfortunately going to have to replace ||Firewalker with something else since i don't have Solstice rain||

Still need to figure out what that is, but I've probably get at least 2 months before I have to make that decision

[sharp eagle]

||Elite Vehicle Prototype Pyro.||

thats what I was going to do until i decided i'd rather go the route i did

||and if you want to be less fire-gun and more gun-gun, the Deluge from IGF or an Assault from the CRB would do well too||

[muted blaze]

A human is immune to being damaged from an archer vehicle

Improvised attacks make sense on vehicles NGL lmao

[sudden cosmos]

Swapped Nova Missiles for it so let's see how it goes next week. That's all I have to add

[placid glacier]

ooop

Ironically enough I was about to do encounter building for my SoTW party since I gotta delay my Wallflower party another week

[placid glacier]

@vagrant grotto does the test tracker need to be updated with the torrent rework?

[vagrant grotto]

Uh yes very much so

[vagrant grotto]

Only things unchanged were Roil, Drown in Nanites, and the Veteran+Ultra traits. Everything else needs testing (and those other traits likely need it too, for the new context)

[placid glacier]

hmm... Might use the Quell-Pankration sitrep for the first combat of SoTW instead of the Koth Control base book has

[vagrant grotto]

Okay today was a good showing for the Ire, Torment Nexus went over well

Also good for the reworked Torrent, felt MUCH less fiddly

Lack of overwatch kinda hurt but it was for the greater good

Realizing I need to run howlers and ires on “stand still” sitreps to see how their “auras” perform in those cases, instead of stuff like Transport

[placid glacier]

hopefully next week my wallflower party should meet and the ires can have some data in a Holdout (granted it'll turn into a transport after but eeeh)

[ashen crown]

Torrents never were an enemy that wanted anyone to sit still, getting rid of Overwatch aids that

[placid glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/higuruma-hiromi-higuruma-jujutsu-kaisen-jujutsu-kaisen-meme-jjk-memes-gif-10370496866020481076

ll2 nelson doing 31 damage in a single turn to the elite vetern knight.....

[vagrant grotto]

through armor? dang

[placid glacier]

got shredded from the swallowtail

anyway uuuh

not getting that testing data today-

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[ashen crown]

Meanwhile, my singular untemplated Knight: “You know what? Fuck you.” un prophets your scanners by taking its turn immediately

[placid glacier]

praya-cannamos got fucking speed blitzed

[ashen crown]

My knight has now peeled a structure + stress of my Zheng player, something I have not been able to do across several missions

(Not solo a Sniper helped)

[vagrant grotto]

I wanna know how the dang LL2 Nelson got 31 damage out in a single round

like was this a nuclear cavalier or something

hunter?

[ashen crown]

Thermal Charge + Nuc Cav gives an extra 2d6

Then it has 4 weapons to barrage with, so you could count that as 3d6 + 3d3 + 3, so that’s a maximum of… 31 exactly

CRB overcharge can push past that

[vagrant grotto]

Okay
Tac Melee 1d6+2 (dang)
NucCav 1d6
Thermal Charge 1d6
TacKnife x3 3d3+3

must've been a combo of crits + high rollers club

[ashen crown]

Technically an War Pike could let 31 be reached but it’d be absolute maximum damage

[placid glacier]

yep it was war pike with thermal charge

[placid glacier]

yeah crb overcharge along with the barrage

[ashen crown]

Oh I do like Mesmerist+Operator’s new Pairing Name

[ashen crown]

Oh and is the Sneak Attack Pairing’s description new? I don’t recall it having Punishing Blow or Stun detailed in it

[vagrant grotto]

Not as of this version

Probably happened when I changed Greatsword

[placid glacier]

Not a formal data report but after the knight almost got nuked in a turn it was able to annoy the party into just calling it early by then proceeding to take nothing but chip damage for the next two turns lol

(I also actually landed a great sword hit against a duel target (Nelson) where the stun was able to get capitalized on by the assassin for a hit before the swallowtail teleported the Nelson away)

Might actually go ask for feedback from the Nelson and swallowtail players now that I'm more awake so I can do a proper feedback report-

[sudden cosmos]

I gave my players a tease for next week and they're concerned sufficiently

Except they called Contrition a rat

[vagrant grotto]

I can see it

[silent wedge]

Is this Wallflower or is ||Regret just a coincidence/reference||?

Because I didn't remember Contrition.

[sudden cosmos]

Contrition is a thing I made the fuck up because I wish to inflict pain on my players

I tried making like five different opfors to go with regret and eventually decided the best way to resolve the situation is to just double ultra that shit and gave him a lil ghost buddy

Who's also an ultra and a commander because commander ghosts are funny, dammit

[tame wharf]

@vagrant grotto when you get a chance can you show me your player perms and the versions of your annoyings lancer sheet?

im trying to see something

[vagrant grotto]

Not gonna be for a while, like tomorrow at best

[tame wharf]

thats totally fine, theres no rush

[vagrant grotto]

I’m using latest Annoying’s sheet

I don’t know what player perms will interact with that

[tame wharf]

ive been having issues with players being able to print their protocols and stuff into chat

[ashen crown]

Now I know it doesn’t work this way because effects from other characters take priority..,

… but it would be really funny if, when in a Grapple with a Knight dueling you, the stun wore off after the contested check for control of the grapple.

It’d be bullshit, and I’d feel awful after the first time it happens
But it’d be hilarious

[tame wharf]

Cheers

Yeah I don't think it's an issue with player perms?

[vagrant grotto]

I figured

[tame wharf]

I think it's probably a sheet update

Like the data is still there it's just being displayed differently

[ashen crown]

This feels only very tangentially PPG related, but it’s something I thought could be good to ask, especially when it comes to providing consequences to PPG Sitreps:

Valk, do you have any good examples of Out of Combat consequences that “attack every part of the character sheet”? Stuff a GM can use either as Defeat/Partial Success consequences or simply just stuff that happens due to blunders in narrative play/using Power at a Cost

[vagrant grotto]

• loss or replacement of a reserve
• loss or replacement of pilot gear
• problems that someone of a specific background would DEFINITELY have difficulty on
• mech weapon/System destruction
• mech structure/stress damage
• Mech Core Power charge
• Mech overcharge
• Burdens

Lotta shit is context sensitive (burdens definitionally so)

Like, “attacking every part of the character sheet” is less so for on the fly stuff and more so for planned threats

[ashen crown]

Would you recommend getting weird with it? Ex. Temporarily shutting down or weakening Skill Triggers, Bond Powers, Talents, Mech Stats, etc w/ “Anti-Reserves” or something. Or would you recommend playing it safe and sticking with stuff that’s actually designed to be taken away?

[vagrant grotto]

Depends on the context, I would likely not take ingrained PC features away, but I would definitely target Inventory

Weird shit would require a weird context (like a metavault)

[ashen crown]

Or explicitly offered up by the player (ex. Power at a Cost)

[vagrant grotto]

Sure, but again, context

[ashen crown]

But for the stuff you listed that isn’t context dependent it’s probably safe to not ask for permission wait everything is context dependent you said that 🤦‍♂️

[vagrant grotto]

Prooooobably? In all cases, signpost

Remember ICI Doctrine

[thin depot]

Has anyone here run Dustgrave? I'm thinking of possibly editing one of the last combats to include a PPG class and I wanna bounce ideas

[vagrant grotto]

I have not, but I’m happy to offer opinions regardless

[thin depot]

Do u mind spoilers then? I'll put em in spoiler text still obviously lol

[muted blaze]

I have run dustgrave too

[vagrant grotto]

I’ve read it, I just haven’t run it

[thin depot]

oooh ok I see yea

[vagrant grotto]

I’m a GM, adventure spoilers mean nothing to me

[thin depot]

FAIR LOL

Lemme write up what I'm considering then

Dustgrave Spoilers:
||So my PCs just finished Mission 1 and they absolutely adored the Combat 3 Spec Ops fight, it was the hardest they've ever fought lmao. I have a feeling they may not trust the Talon and will end up getting the optional Combat 7 Backstabbing Birds by the end. The commander is supposed to pilot an SSC Viceroy as a Breacher. However, one of my PCs pilots an Atlas and has been MVP so far, so I'm considering making the commander an Ultra Kensei instead as a modified SSC Atlas and modifying the combat to make room for that. Mortal Draw would be insanely cinematic and I plan to reprise music tracks I used in Combat 3.||

||My question basically is: How would I balance this in y'all's humble opinions with removing or replacing certain enemies and such? I have 6 Players but 5 Player Count enemies have been what I've been using as it seems the most balanced for them while remaining challenging||

Of note: ||all the other enemies are Veteran Spec Ops that's where the iffy balancing comes in||

||But being a single combat scene all PCs have access to their core powers to go all out this combat||

[vagrant grotto]

Nice nice nice, okay my rec is
||absolutely use Kensei. If you replace all of Leonora’s templates with Ultra, I think you can afford to drop 1 of the veteran spec ops in terms of both Structure and Activations||

[vagrant grotto]

Actually this is a good point, ||Ralf explicitly designed Combat 7 as a victory lap. Maybe keep the final Veteran in reinforcements?||

[thin depot]

||So as in replace Veteran Spec Ops and Commander with Ultra?||

[thin depot]

||Oooh true perhaps||

||May put the 1 other SSC Atlas Vet Spec Ops in the Reinforcements, makes sense for the flanking Assassin||

||Do you think I should put the Automated Battlefield Awareness Node on another Spec Ops?||

[vagrant grotto]

So, as written it’s about ||15 structure and 8 NPC turns vs 5 players. So if you use ultra instead of the other templates, it’ll instead be 16 structure and 10(!!) turns||

||so consider moving 2 of the NPCs to reinforcements IMO||

[thin depot]

||There is 6 players actually so that's a bit better, but will defo move to reinforcements yea||

||I've just been using 5 player enemy count instead of modifying for 6 cause it ended up balancing out good||

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah I was making suggestions assuming it would continue to hold that way, worst case ||reinforcements can come in start of round 2||

[thin depot]

||Exactly my thought yea, I'm gonna use em as like insurance to hold back if they're doing bad or to bring in if it starts to be a stomp||

I appreciate the advice btw thank u v much

||I also think the Kensei works flavor-wise cause Leonora piloted a Stortebeker in Combat 3 and I feel like that fighting style translates better to something like Kensei rather than a Breacher Viceroy||

[vagrant grotto]

Happy to help!

[ashen crown]

Really stupid idea;

Medium blitz where most of the objectives are all in one centralized location, but like. 2 are on the outskirts. And the combat has a Specter or Knight.

[silent wedge]

I've done a similar concept by putting side objectives way on the other side of the map for a gauntlet. It played very well

Specters included

[umbral sluice]

@vagrant grotto out of curiosity, if a Howler gets another weapon, say from the Ultra template, and Feral Howl causes it to Overwatch, can it use that other weapon or is it intended to only be with the Claws

[vagrant grotto]

Any weapon as-written

[umbral sluice]

awesome, thank you

helping a friend build an Ultra Howler with Hellfire Projector so I was wondering was that as scary as it sounds

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah it’s kinda scary due to the longer reach

Lemme know how it goes!

[umbral sluice]

will do!

[steel apex]

@vagrant grotto Per your ruminations on a PPG-esque vehicle analogue and casting about for names, "AFV" is one possibility that immediately springs to mind

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_fighting_vehicle

[placid glacier]

Encounter isn't finished but I have some feedback to give

[muted blaze]

Calendula moment?

[vagrant grotto]

Nice, thank you!

[vagrant grotto]

I welcome it whenever you’re ready!

[placid glacier]

Ok awake again-

Sitrep: Seize-Transport, 1 Objective
4 turns into Seize

(Relevant) Homerules used: Maria Lopez Core and More, Valk Lanny changes, Accelerate changes

Party: LL5
Half-Emperor Pegi, Half-Sunzi Tortuga, Calendula, Lanny

Ire
I literally just realized as I was typing this up that I needed to force update the individual ire npc so I don't have wholy accurate data for anything except transposition- fuck- at least that was the main sticking point for my party so silver linings

in any case, the party felt like multiple Ires was a bit too oppressive with multiple stun risks around on the board, I was able to use the stun to good effect on the lanny to knock everyone off and the tortuga to force a plan change, but everything else in its kit felt fine to me and the party

Players didn't attack the obelisks so HP changes weren't tested yet, but they did work for flushing the party out of position, when next session happens I will be hopefully testing how an obelisk dropped right on an objective will be handled

Capacitor
High Voltage was taken well, forced some fun make your choice decisions for the Pegasus pilot (Party referred to it as the Shocking Ball Torture zone and wanted me to bring that up)

Though of note- The party then sent the Tortuga pilot to torment the Capacitor for the next 3 turns and it has done literally nothing else of note this encounter except run away

@vagrant grotto

[vagrant grotto]

Thank you for the feedback! And yeah makes sense that harassing an artillery like a Capacitor would hold it down

Looking forward to feedback on the sitrep itself, once everything is wrapped up

[harsh widget]

let me know if that map could use any changes as well please!

[sudden cosmos]

RE: Ultra Ghost and Ultra Howler (LL1, Regret Replacement fight. 2 melee everests, 1 drone chomolungma, 1 melee chomolungma, 1 not-offensively-inclined sagarmatha

Ultra Commander Ghost:

• Found the new ultra teleport bond ability to be very annoying as it was able to slip away from melee attackers with a lot of ease, especially with spectral flight as an optional
• I liked it well enough, but wished it had more tech attacking ability for when it had juiced its buddy for as much as it could (obviously it's a support first)
• The half damage/half heat when intangible seems almost unnecessary given now low its output is, though obviously gaining weapons/tech options from its templates could be spooky. Also kinda annoying to remember/easy to forget that it only does half when intangible.

Ultra Veteran Howler:

• They liked it
• Found it spooky, but not oppressive
• Suddenly got really scared by its damage output once one of them was exposed
• Rip and Tear felt fine to them. "It built up with the overwatches. There is a world where it could structure someone who can't activate yet standing near them" but didn't find it THAT concerning)
• Felt fine on speed and durability (ran it on 5 speed, 0 armor, and threat 2 on the claws)
• Feral howl as a 'open up the pit' type ability where you're shoving it in the middle of the party and forcing them to address it is very effective. Would like to run one on another not-mobility related sitrep just to see what happens (also have it not be an ultra too)

Optionals for the two forthcoming

Rebake vet and ultra, also

With your OC rules

[vagrant grotto]

Thanks for the feedback! Halfway through at the moment, wanted to note that Phase Shift’s half damage and heat is actually primarily intended for the bond’s weapons and abilities

[sudden cosmos]

It was coming up a lot because of the optional I picked for ultra and for it fragsigging people

[vagrant grotto]

Because the bond can take the mantle of Phase Shift on their turn as a protocol

[sudden cosmos]

Once the howler died to a 38 damage tempest charge blade smack, the ghost was "anticlimactic" and "like a scooby doo door chase" (poor guy was bonding with an archer formation)

[vagrant grotto]

Also hell yeah on the Howler

[sudden cosmos]

They LOVED the howler

Also I did dragon the dragon biomimicry thing with it a couple times. Terrifyingly effective strat

1. split the party up (like with a breath attack, or in howler's case, running in, hollering for some OS, ramming away the overwatchers, and scooting)
2. single out a party member
3. drag them away (dragon biomimicry strat says to fly away with them)
4. beat the person you singled out up as the rest of the party tries to catch up

enabled by string theory marionette boosts

[vagrant grotto]

Door chase sounds like a consequence of a Formation being the leftovers, at least

[sudden cosmos]

a little

Since double action makes it seem like it can only un-bond on one activation, then re-bond with another on the next

[vagrant grotto]

Love the classic “kidnap and maul” strat yeah

[sudden cosmos]

I wasn't doing lol-yuumi style untargetable zips between hostiles

Now, was it spectral flighting between rooftops and pissing off the TCB everest? yes

By that point, I'd already wrecked 2 PC mechs though

[vagrant grotto]

Love Spectral Flight turning on No Clip and Creative Mode

[sudden cosmos]

So it was playing keepaway as a tepid heatgunner while finding someone to glue itself to

[sudden cosmos]

puppet crasher plus howler is good clean fun

and it had rabid bite for some good, good incidental heat

[vagrant grotto]

Sounds like an excellent end-of-mission boss fight then yeah

[sudden cosmos]

They did like it all told, but found defeating the howler and only having the ghost and a couple archer formations to be anticlimactic

Which is more of a lancer double ultra fight issue

They were expecting something more elaborate than I was daring because I still wanted to give useful playtest data

[vagrant grotto]

Perhaps something like Undying Faith was expected? Like the Ultra can keep the target animated or animate a wreck when all else fails

I don’t know

“Can’t do much when its adds are mulched” is valid feedback regardless

Like even less so than an Ultra Priest

[raven pecan]

i cant wait to use this baby...

[sudden cosmos]

2x Vanquish Sitrep. Kill both to win.

UC Ghost:

• String Theory Marionette (no complaints)
• Exorcism Ejection (saved it from eating a backswing cut, so that's nice)
• Spectral Flight (made it very annoying to fight against once it was the last objective threat for the TCB everest)
• Split Timestream (Seems odd on a single-structure/single-stress ghost. Party didn't realize it was 1/sc and got really scared by it. Stopped worrying once it had its one use burned)
• Bolster Network (commander ghosts are so funny)
• Nonlocality (I mean, I liked it. They found its slipperyness with its general ineffectualness after the howler died to be more annoying than engaging. Not Nonlocality's fault tbh)
• Puppet Crasher (annoying to remember the half heat, but so very spicy when a buddy is nearby to benefit from the puppet watching)
• Legion (I'm boring)

[sudden cosmos]

UV Howler:

• No Escape (literally forgot it existed)
• Longclaw (they had no thoughts. I personally like it. Enables kidnapping? Maybe problematic.)
• Blood Hunt (useful for getting into the DZ off zero heat with Feral Howl. The lockon for DZ/Half health got a lot of value!)
• Viral Bite (Incidental heat is surprisingly relevant at LL1. Absolutely stuffed the support sagarmatha's build. Felt a little bad about that.)
• Rip and Tear (shared their opinions already. Love it at threat 2.)
• Supreme Melee (genuinely used it for the free grapples and rams for more crit fishing accuracy than anything else)
• Superior Reactor (RIP original A Beast Uncaged. You were busted and this is the only substitute I could find)
• Unstoppable (chomolungma-b-gone (gave the hackers a way to cleanse viral bite, also))

[sudden cosmos]

Literally what I just ran

But with a ghost

[vagrant grotto]

Happy to hear Rip and Tear worked out well, tbh

I was low key considering dropping Lunar Splendor and making Rip a Normal Optional, but I think it’d be too annoying to track on a non-vet

[sudden cosmos]

Edited longclaw with thoughts I had while typing

[vagrant grotto]

I’m glad for the Threat 2, I think that’s staying

[sudden cosmos]

For balance purposes, R&T should stay vet imo. Means you gotta invest a little harder with the structure/activation budget to get a multi activation AoE blender

[vagrant grotto]

Yeah no I agree

It’s just a matter of what to do with the poor performer lol

That’s a me problem tho

I’m okay with Longclaw enabling kidnapping tbqh

That’s part of the draw, locking down 1 guy and being more mobile about it

[sudden cosmos]

They had options to deal with it at LL1. They just kinda let their CQB overwatch guy get mauled

But the pilot was talking a lot of shit to Regret so

[vagrant grotto]

The classic aggro tool: taunting your GM

[sudden cosmos]

They literally had a taunt

Because I wanted to have players pull the howler away from a pilot (as in on foot pilot) to save them from R+T splash damage and getting vaporized

After the last ultra howler killed two pilots

[vagrant grotto]

Terrifying! 😅

[sudden cosmos]

It was a one-shot then, thankfully

[sudden cosmos]

I think they underestimated how much a howler can lay into an exposed target that can't brace when they can barrage 3 times in a round mostly uncontested

[tame wharf]

@vagrant grotto have you ever thought about changing how The Lesson of Transubstantiation works?

[vagrant grotto]

Yes

I’ve thought about changing how a lot of things work

Doesn’t mean anything fruitful came out of it 😛

I’d default to Maria’s take

[tame wharf]

I havne't seen Maria's take on it