https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/551620/view/518599196165539312?l=english @silent flicker @topaz plinth
#Traditional roguelikes
kind moat
rigid sleet
Iirc yes!
rigid sleet
misty blaze
Tradrogue is that dragon Strong Bad made right
rigid sleet
So true
pulsar comet
TRADROGUE was ADOM. Or maybe he was Z Angband...or maybe he was just a Nethack.
rigid sleet
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2058570/view/536616130148565003?l=english @quiet raven @supple dock @topaz plinth
junior obsidian
SLIME MIMIC WILL JUST GIVE YOU A 300 HP GOBLIN
rigid sleet
rocky jewel
I actually just watched that exact video, funnily enough. I should play more DCSS.
gleaming sparrow
rigid sleet
gleaming sparrow
winged...
junior obsidian
LOL
topaz plinth
ey nice
craggy holly
mainly just killed my way through the latter half of the game with a +1 kusarigama I found and the Garotte skill
rigid sleet
got my first win in Shadowed: The Demon Castle of Ooe
oh hell yeah! they just had a patch right?
changed up the stealth attack stuff
craggy holly
yeah!
just after I abused it through floors 8-15 lolll
craggy holly
ooh
misty blaze
Was just trying to 100% Path of Achra and just realized, this thing is the Craft Queen!
There were 2 different queens at some point in
the broken tower being another zone, filled with fucked up Granga awaiting their regent.
There were 2 queens in the setting at some point, Craft and War. The War Queen vanished but her consort became the Red King, the boss of the blood zone and the creator of the Frenzied One prestige class
Allow me to tell you a story.
She didn't make it all the way but she got close. I thought she'd vanished but no ):
misty blaze
I need to flex. This was the hardest class to win with yet.
The only class victories rarer are Night Crow and Acolyte and I already won with Acolyte
misty blaze
Reclining in my Fucking Glory
junior obsidian
now 100% cogmind come join us #1159904976814997617
empty talon
Been playing stoneshard again, game is so much fun. I’ve been undervaluing ranged weapons, the free damage is so great
empty talon
Okay one problem with ranged weapons, my enemies flee so I don’t count as having killed them unless they bleed out
rigid sleet
Been playing stoneshard again, game is so much fun. I’ve been undervaluing range...
hell yeah
I think alex would really enjoy it
empty talon
hell yeah
I’ll admit I find it less interesting as a roguelike roguelike and more as a very punishing RPG that happens to use a roguelike-esqe engine
rigid sleet
I’ll admit I find it less interesting as a roguelike roguelike and more as a ver...
oh neat, fair enough!
empty talon
The default mode is in fact, not a roguelike
Permadeath is optional
Honestly a welcome occurrence given how sort of sick of rougelikes I am haha
wild hearth
fuck u sigmund
big hulking troll barbarian fortnite flossing on the so-called toughest unique
pulsar comet
Gottem
wild hearth
UUHHHG dammit i felt it that time
wild hearth
Still mad about it i thought hell was mandatory
autumn garnet
has there been a climbing tradrogue yet or is it still the action ones?
misty blaze
Oh right the one climbing game with ascii art is actually real time!
empty talon
what was that game called again?
wild hearth
has there been a climbing tradrogue yet or is it still the action ones?
There was something about caving
empty talon
@rigid sleet finally picked up lost flame at your reccomendation. game is so sick, basically just a turn-based soulslike, but roguelike. tons of fun, and runs happily on my current potato
rigid sleet
<@140921736588689408> finally picked up lost flame at your reccomendation. game ...
I'm so happy you like it!!!
Yeah it's sick as hell
You should share screenshots and stories and stuff in the main channel to sell more people on it
Or even like
Videos
The SOUND DESIGN is so good
The audio scape of fighting fucked up horrors in the abyssum
empty talon
the sound design is indeed shockingly good
empty talon
speaking of screenshots, what the hell (floor 3 btw)
rigid sleet
speaking of screenshots, what the hell (floor 3 btw)
lmao
the extra frog makes it much funnier
empty talon
I wish there were any resources at all for this game lmao, I think I am playing it very wrong (even though I'm getting decently far)
just had my latest run ended by getting teleported by a witch into a room with two massive admatine golems while I was trying to regain my stamina
empty talon
I wish there were *any* resources at all for this game lmao, I think I am playin...
*decentlly far being I think a third of the way 😭 winning runs seem to be around level 60 and I haven't made it past 25
rigid sleet
you should absolutely post this in the main channel
and get more peopel to join you in investigating
empty talon
I'll admit my social spoons are currently reserved for my physical life 😅
did get another 25ish run that I completely squandered by wandering down an alternate route and getting shot in the face
rigid sleet
did get another 25ish run that I completely squandered by wandering down an alte...
oh nooo
well good luck for next one!
empty talon
I made it past 30, into the mouth of iphe and then died to some kind of incomprehensible bug where all my thorn effects procced against myself whenever I hit a wall
rigid sleet
I made it past 30, into the mouth of iphe and then died to some kind of incompre...
oh huh bring it up with the dev
can I bring it u pwith the dev?
empty talon
I already have haha, I didn’t realize it was a bug at the time though so I had nothing useful to give
empty talon
finally got a magic build to somewhat work
the corpses themselves are almost worse than useless but their ability to explode is very powerful
junior obsidian
the corpses themselves are almost worse than useless but their ability to explod...
is this like gw1 death nova necro?
empty talon
I don’t know what that means
empty talon
Ooh they're all so distinct
The dog shaped ones are full of acid 😔
ancient pelican
I don’t know what that means
Guild wars death-nova necromancer. I didn't play but I feel I can safely answer 'yes' it is like that
empty talon
ah yeah that seems likely, that build did resolve around exploding my summons. it also got me killed for indiscernable reasons as always seems to happen with summon builds/builds that interact with fire
junior obsidian
death nova is an enchantment you put on an allied unit that causes a big explosion around them on death that also poisons enemies
it's great
so you can animate a slain foe and then explode them to spread posion and disease among your living foes
soft notch
Had my first run on Path of Achra
ended up winning with a stolen build and a lot of blood
quiet raven
naqui humbaba is a classic
soft notch
Type shit
misty blaze
Powerless was surprisingly fun
soft notch
How are you even supposed to survie with Horrorform
so many failed runs trying to get it to work...
quiet raven
I think last time I tried that one it was with an ihra priest of tengri
you are unfortunately just rolling dice on not getting popped like a balloon
void field
I am getting back into Tales Of Maj'eyal
Tryin Doomed
Wow Doomed is difficult
At least compared to what I did last, Archer
The whole 'short ranged caster' pitch is 100% my shit tho
And unlike Cursed keepin hate up doesn't seem to be an issue
pulsar comet
Doomed is my favorite TOME class
My big tip is pick one of curse tree or antimagic
Not both and definitely not neither
Cursed body, like with cursed, does well at 1/2/1/1
Shadows is one of the few things that can be worth the cat point to increase mastery. This is usually a build sin but Shadows actually gets a lot out of it. There’s an artifact lantern that boosts Shadows category mastery and saves you the point but it’s rng dependent
void field
I've always vibed with like
Casters, but their spells are a shotgun, not a rifle, you know
Close in, big booms
And yeah, I heard shadows are very important for Actually Winning as Doomed
pulsar comet
It’s overstated how required they are (people win on insane with creeping darkness gestures focused builds!) but they’re a powerful part of the toolkit if you invest
I haven’t actually won with Doomed but I’ve come close several times now and my usual approach is 5/5/4/1 with the cat point investment
I’ve heard antimagic is strong now but I prefer Curses. Curse of Nightmares is daffy
Oh! Actually another doomed tip
As soon as you have 50 gold, go to last hope and buy basic weapons and armor training from any merchant
Doomed tends to have plenty of generics so heavy armor investment and thick skin are extremely worth
Also don’t take any spell talents from escorts early on, because you’ll eventually want to pick up Mindstar Training from Zigur even if you aren’t doing antimagic
Once you’ve bought all three Mindstar trainings you don’t need Zigur anymore though if you’re not doing AM so go nuts with the remaining escorts
void field
Yessss
God I love mindstar classes
I need to do another psishot too
Is a little MAD but
Really fun 😌
Solidify Air....
Boss monster encased in a shotgun blast of solid air for 3 turns without a save: https://youtu.be/ThWTOuiMV7M?si=8Vh0t21eySoGVV08
Solipsist is maybe the only time I've enjoyed a pure 'caster' class in a rogue like too
Though admittedly the dream forge stuff blurs that a little
I cast 'beat you to death with a hammer'
I promise it's a psychic thing
void field
I also want to take another crack at Sling Archer
Or Skirmisher, which
Seems like the same thing as Sling Archer but accomplished in a different manner
pulsar comet
Does Archer even still support slings? I kinda thought it was all bow all the time post rework
I dunno I played one archer post rework and rolled the game with it
void field
Admittedly, I've been playing 1.7.4 and just updated to 1.7.6 (and lost all my saves in the progress 😭)
But 1.7.4 still had sling archer
Yea, looking at it Sling Archer is still around
But it IS strange
Both it and Skirmisher are like
'use sling and shield, schmoove around in closeish range throwing rocks'
pulsar comet
well the rework I meant was 1.3 like ten years ago so fair enough lol
void field
A worm that walks killed my Doomed two times 😔
Still in it because I'm on Adventurer mode but it did kill momentum a ton
Doomed is def the most fragile class I've tried so far
misty blaze
How are you even supposed to survie with Horrorform
The Blood Plating can keep you healed up. Brud heals from bleed stacks on enemy. Because your damage scales with Horrorform stacks you don't need much WIL to function. So, enough STR to not be encumbered, then push DEX and VIG. Mostly VIG.
iirc I dipped into punching so that I punch someone once, drown them in bleed stacks, then swing with my other hand and heal for all those stacks.
Humbaba gives heals and builds stacks quickly, great for Divine Intervention. Also play on low ascension levels.
Stran is good if you're having trouble in the early game with any class, the Beast is crazy good with very little stat investment.
All that said: Horror was one of the last prestige classes I beat the game with for a good fucking reason, it has a less than 5% achievement rate.
pulsar comet
A worm that walks killed my Doomed two times 😔
Still in it because I'm on Adven...
Yeah I wasn't kidding about the armor training tip
it's a "robes class" out of the box but you really want whatever survivability you can get
Deflection is a priority talent pickup at 4, and at 12+ Gesture of Warding is a huge boon
this is another reason I really like curses btw because Curse of Nightmares is ridiculous
also once you've got mindstar training, Leaves Tide can be a real lifesaver
rigid sleet
A worm that walks killed my Doomed two times 😔
Still in it because I'm on Adven...
@topaz plinth
🪱
pulsar comet
worms that walk are no joke
though they're most famous for eating Reavers/Corruptors alive because blight damage heals them
void field
I have done research and the advice genuinely seems to be 'come back in several levels' so when I'm feeling the save again I'll find another dungeon
pulsar comet
Nur 3 is a bad time no matter who you are, it’s true
soft notch
All Paths walked...
quiet raven
how'd the horror run end up going?
soft notch
Pretty good
quiet raven
what did you end up picking for it
soft notch
Ihra Priest of Hadad
void field
So
Is the whole 'doomed can manipulate invisible force to batter people around' like
Am I crazy to think it a reference to the sith or something
Dark not-magic produced by the Force Of Hate that you can use to telekinetically batter people
Obviously the rest of the skillet is different but
I dunno roguelike makers are nerds
echo ferry
I never made that connection but now that you've said it I can't unsee it
void field
I think the main evidence against is no force choke but
It still compels me
I do find it funny that Doomed are 100% fine by Zigur
Not magic by technicality, don't care
Welcome to the club buddy
pulsar comet
Yeah they're psionic. not magic, doesn't count
Ziguranth are a bit out of touch
just a bit
😛
pulsar comet
So
Is the whole 'doomed can manipulate invisible force to batter people around' ...
Don't forget that they're a mindstar class, and you know what happens when you get mindstar mastery...
like, mindstars are especially perfect natural crystals that can be manipulated into producing a blade, used by people who are really in tune with nature and mental powers. They're pretty much lightsabers but you skip the step of constructing a hilt
honestly I'm surprised attune mindstar doesn't give you an option to change the blade color
void field
I have yet to find Zigur this run but really need too
Guarding gesture is not doin much rn
pulsar comet
zigur always appears in the same spot?
it should be roughly centrally located on the continent
like, center east, between the mountains and the lake/inland sea
if it isn't there in your game, check for anything that counts as a spell on your character
if it's a racial talent or something from an escort you might be fucked, but it's possible to temporarily deny yourself access with itemization
void field
Yeee, I just need to go and find it
In the over world I often bug out so I rest forever instead of autoexplore so clearing the maps been slow
pulsar comet
oh I see
void field
It's only on this doomed so I wonder if like
The game is waiting for Hate to regen to full but
Hate Don't Work Like That
pulsar comet
yeah it might be a case of the stat trying to stabilize and hate is inherently a bit unstable
void field
Okay since tat lil slip up Doomed's been goin smoothly
At level 30 now, and really coming into my own
Advanced Shadowmancy is silly
Stone hits like a railgun
I did get antimagic'd up, it's helped a lot with survivability
A big scary spot in most of my playthroughs is tempest peak but it was a breeze this run
Stone also making the target focus on your launched shadow is sooooo nice for bosses
As you chunk their initial shield or whatever durability trick they have and they pour their initial offense into your poor bozo summon
pulsar comet
advanced shadowmancy is REALLY good
shadow's path is insane even after the nerf too
void field
Yessss
My usual 'oh fuck sudden monster horde' solution is Unseen Force-> Shadow's Path-> Cursed Bolt-> Blast
pulsar comet
I don't really use cursed bolt but stone, shadow's path, and merge are all really powerful tools
and yeah unseen force is silly
any hate on crit item will cap you out probably if you've been crit-building (and you absolutely should on doomed)
cosmic ibex
I should really try Tales of Maj'Eyal again. I think I suffered from one of my first attempts playing it being Temporal Warden.
pulsar comet
oh god
yeah the game unrolls classes via unlocks the way it does for a reason
a lot of the unlockable ones can be very overwhelming and benefit from knowing the fundamentals
cosmic ibex
I fucked about, unlocked temporal warden really fast and went 'oh, that sounds cool' and tried playing that
void field
The whole gameplay gimmick of using Shadows as both summons and positional markers for abilities is really cool
Actual footage of me using Stone to send my little minion into the nearest enemy's face https://tenor.com/lSTnSg7h7YB.gif
void field
I fucked about, unlocked temporal warden really fast and went 'oh, that sounds c...
Also yeahhhhh I share the same love for Warden's Idea and dislike of it's mechanics
I'd probably rec Archer amongst the starting classes as What To Get Familiar With The Game with but that's just me
Right mix of fun things to do and just being straightforwardly strong
pulsar comet
I like temp warden but I'm into chronomancer silliness'
cosmic ibex
I had a lot of 'oops, I broke space time' and then sorta bounced off TOME for a while
rocky jewel
The whole gameplay gimmick of using Shadows as both summons and positional marke...
...hm. I do not need to get into a new game when I already have too many games I should play but aren't. And I've never really gotten into roguelikes. But this sounds really interesting...
pulsar comet
tome is good and free
void field
TOME is REALLY cool
But word of warning, if you are unlocking stuff legit Doomed is one of the latest class unlocks
You have to get like 90ish percent through a run to do the thing to unlock it
rocky jewel
I just know I'll get overwhelmed and never properly play it. And I have so many other games to play. But... I dunno, watching everyone else having so much fun with it is tempting me.
void field
But also, a ton of the other classes have other fun gimmicks
I love Archer as noted, Brawler has a really cool combo mechanic
pulsar comet
As trad roguelikes go tome is pretty accessible at least
rocky jewel
...is this a game which is unplayable without constantly referencing the wiki, or a game where opening the wiki irreparably ruins the experience for you?
pulsar comet
neither
the wiki is not super useful but the game gives you all the numbers for stuff
void field
I'd say it's neither yeah
The wiki is not particularly helpful, you have to look up build guides to get buildcraft tips for a given class
pulsar comet
yeah class guides can be very helpful for getting a handle on the more complicated ones
gleaming sparrow
TOME is considered pretty accessible for new players in the genre
rocky jewel
But there isn't like "oh, when you get to this late-game area if you didn't think to bring along a very specific item which you would have no reason to know you needed you're suddenly Giga Screwed" or "oh, this enemy suddenly turbokills you if you don't skew your build knowing it exists"?
pulsar comet
there are some knowledge gates, like you'll figure out pretty fast that you should not go to dreadfell right out the gate
cosmic ibex
How is Arcane Blade? Looking over the 'automatically unlocked' ones.
pulsar comet
Arcane Blade is considered extremely strong
I've never really gotten the hang of it though
void field
But there isn't like "oh, when you get to this late-game area if you didn't thin...
You definitely do get suddenly turbokilled sometimes, but I think that's a genre inevitability
gleaming sparrow
hey now, Cogmind exists
you don't get turbokilled out of nowhere in Cogmind you just lose your critical parts and sob
rocky jewel
can I look at the wiki to see classes, or will that ruin things for me?
gleaming sparrow
because a FUCKING hunter nailed your wings with a crit: destroy what the HELL
pulsar comet
TOME is not a deeply narrative heavy game so don't worry too much about it
void field
You can go onto the wiki pretty freely yea
gleaming sparrow
other than TOME the one I've seen a lot of people recommend for dipping your toes into trad rogues is TGGW
(The Ground Gives Way)
cosmic ibex
Aww...Skirmisher requires unlocking. I like Slings.
void field
What TOME does do, is give you a Lives Budget more permissive than Straight Permadeath
The default mode is that you get an extra life at certain level milestones
So if you get turbokilled the usual play is to leave that dungeon and come back with a few more levels
pulsar comet
TOME is not a deeply narrative heavy game so don't worry too much about it
(there's a lot of cool lore it's fun to piece together but that's a little different than plot per se)
gleaming sparrow
because it is considered quite straightforward and guideposted and also it's a short ahh game that doesn't have billion year extended extended EXTENDED victory runs
void field
Aww...Skirmisher requires unlocking. I like Slings.
Sling Archer is REALLY good and similar to Skirmisher, by the by
rocky jewel
I've played some DCSS but never properly gotten very far in it.
gleaming sparrow
TOME you can concievably get yourself into weeklong runs in
pulsar comet
My personal fav out of the starter classes is Rogue
it's quite powerful and can be built in a few ways
gleaming sparrow
DCSS I know a guy who spent a month on one run trying to go The Most All The Way and then died
pulsar comet
and it's a lot of fun playing with the tools it offers
cosmic ibex
I might try Sling Archer to start then. Or at least, Archer and try to play a Sling Archer
pulsar comet
my quickie archer tip is you can right-click shoot and bind shoot to left click
this will save you a lot of time
😛
rocky jewel
because it is considered quite straightforward and guideposted and also it's a s...
...something about that phrasing made me envision a tradrogue which is also a cultivation game where you actually have to get stronger by cultivating for long periods of time.
gleaming sparrow
did you mean: Caves of Qud
void field
Yeeee
There's an extra category you can snag at level 10 that gives you tons of sling specific goodies
Like using a shield alongside it, and fun movement/attacks https://te4.org/wiki/Agility_(category)
rocky jewel
I don't think Caves of Qud is literally cultivation... is it?
void field
I have heard some stuff about what psychics get up too but have never tried psychic stuff in Qud
gleaming sparrow
I was tongue-in-cheekily referring to CoQ's tendency to let you do silly shit to your character in the permanent sense if you're willing to sit on your ass and fiddle with mystical items and substances a lot
also psykers are on some shit in that game for real for real
first, bifurcate the timeline so that if you screw up the next step, you can just roll it back and try again. next, knock back that Evil Ass Random Effects Potion...
cosmic ibex
Look, don't think of it as 'fucking with the timeline', think of it as 'Being your best self'
Now if you don't mind, I have the minds of other psykers to absorb because they jumped me in the psychic combat equivelent of a dark alleyway
gleaming sparrow
frankly, rude, and they deserve what they're gonna get
cosmic ibex
Meanwhile playing CoQ Truekin: 'What if...gun?'
gleaming sparrow
more gun.
Cogmind being the trad rogue I have the most experience and knowledge of by a long shot, I can attest to the fact that playing high tech in Cogmind is basically like being a psychic in CoQ except instead of fighting the other psychics you spot them from ten miles away and make sure they never see you
playing gun, otoh, is hilariously good fun because there is no end state to your build in Cogmind because shit's always breaking and getting replaced so it's always about the next fucked up blasphemy against the laws of physics you're intending to wield against the hordes of 0b10
sure I have homing nuclear missiles right now, but the question is, what are you going to do when I take your Tactical Quantum Warheads? What then, MAIN?
smart nukes are delectable cheese
soft notch
you don't get turbokilled out of nowhere in Cogmind you just lose your critical ...
And then slowly get turbokilled by a thousand cuts
topaz plinth
How is Arcane Blade? Looking over the 'automatically unlocked' ones.
Arcane Blade is pretty strong but also has this funny twist where the strongest way to play it is to straight-up ignore half the things it has 
The secret is ||you ignore conventional weapons, you go to Angolwen, the mage city, and get Staff Training, and use a staff as your main weapon, because this can dramatically increase the damage of your attack spell procs.||
cosmic ibex
The secret is ||you ignore conventional weapons, you go to Angolwen, the mage ci...
Hah
I was looking over their talents and going 'considering staffs are a weapon and they're the weapon/magic combo, I'm shocked they don't beat people with magic staffs'.
topaz plinth
The other secret is to play a Shalore or Ogre, but that goes for 90% of classes in the game
cosmic ibex
What makes Shalore/Ogre so good?
topaz plinth
What makes Shalore/Ogre so good?
For Ogre, it's simply that inscriptions are good and Ogres are good with inscriptions. Also, they have a large hit point pool. Not much more to it than that.
For Shalore it's global speed early, but more importantly, if you survive all the way until level 24 you get the ability to reduce your cooldowns, increase the duration of your buffs, and reduce the duration of your debuffs. Notably, the debuffs can go all the way down to 0 duration and functionally be purged.
(Of course, the argument goes, if you've gotten to level 25 in the first place, you've mostly won the game already. But for Shalore, hitting level 24 definitely helps seal the deal.)
cosmic ibex
I don't have Ogres unlocked so Shalore it is 😛
radiant hatch
Shalore isn't as good as it used to be but it's still pretty damn gnarly
cosmic ibex
And I died on literally the first level. That's the roguelike experiance
I got blasted apart by like 5 red crystal dudes throwing fireballs
cosmic ibex
Gunna fall off over time but this is a nice first find for this 'doing staff stuff' arcane blade.
cosmic ibex
I'm level six and these guys are level 15! I have become error.
...nevermind, I wiped them out in like 4 turns.
huh?
I mean, I knew I had 5 points in Lightning for a reason but I kinda expected guys with a 9 level advantage on me to be a major threat.
topaz plinth
It's complicated
Especially when non-weapon damage gets involved
And figuring out how dangerous enemies actually are is probably the core skill of ToME
Levels correlate with talent levels, raw stats, and to some extent, hit points
And also what equipment they could plausibly be carrying, but it's pretty rare for enemies to have significant synergies with the equipment they're carrying even on the highest difficulties
Enemy chassis and/or class also matters a lot
powerful spells tend to chew through the defenses of most basic enemies really reliably, unless they're specifically resistant to that element and you don't have any resistance penetration yet
(e.g. since you're focusing on lightning, obviously you'll have problems with lightning elementals eventually, which is exactly why you should strive to get the ability to ignore that resistance. for an arcane blade, respen will mostly come from items. I think in theory the class is designed so that you simply use multiple elements instead, but, uh, lightning is just kinda obviously your best damage-dealing element, so it usually makes more sense to just focus on it.)
topaz plinth
Shalore isn't as good as it used to be but it's still pretty damn gnarly
yeah the big thing with it is honestly just the fragility
global speed is huge, but it's only as huge as the things you do with it, and the most important thing to be able to do with speed is actually to run away, which the global speed boost isn't really enough for, but of course, really powerful movement infusions are usually pretty easy to get
(and yeah you might not expect +/-4 hp/level to matter that much, but... it actually kinda really does, lmao. +40 hit points at level 10 as an Ogre compared to a Shalore, or +60 as a dwarf compared to a Shalore, can very easily be the difference between dying and getting far enough away with a movement infusion to live another day)
topaz plinth
global speed is huge, but it's only as huge as the things you do with it, and th...
so I guess the tl;dr of Shalore is that they're monstrously strong later, but that the real difficulty of ToME tends to be early, and Shalore actually don't help too much there. Still have enough synergy with magic classes, and especially magic + dexterity classes (like Temporal Wardens or Shadowblades), that I'd often take them there anyway.
cosmic ibex
(and yeah you might not expect +/-4 hp/level to matter that much, but... it actu...
I've already lost one life due to 'walked into a room with 2 mages who also had lightning'
So I'm feeling that fragility
I've gone hard on shields to try and deal with that
I've got my rune shield, I've got a wand that gives me shield
I've got a talent that makes my shields bigger
And one that gives me a shield whenever I heal...
I'm not sure if it's the best use of my general talents but it's the one that keeps me alive when the bad guys come for me so I'm happy with it.
empty talon
beat lost flame for the first time today! turns out I think I'd been barking up the wrong tree for the easiest ending
rigid sleet
Hell yeah!
rocky jewel
I'm suddenly thinking about DCSS fanfiction (yes I know that is a deranged sentence to randomly drop) and consider: blind people outside the dungeon often end up getting raised by a temple of Ashenzari, both because of the whole "blind prophet" thing, and also because many of them wear ceremonial blindfolds and curse them because the blessings of Ashenzari manifest as magic mapping inside the dungeon but outside the dungeon can help the blind navigate around unfamiliar environments.
misty blaze
I'm suddenly thinking about DCSS fanfiction (yes I know that is a deranged sente...
I keep meaning to write Path of Achra fanfic, this is reasonable to me
rocky jewel
I was going to do a series of stories each focused on three very different worshippers of each deity, but it never materialized. I think I was going to start with Dithmenos, with:
- A young adult who does a traveling puppet show with his father, who's being introduced to the religion more properly now that he's reached adulthood
- A thief robbing a wealthy home, and offering prayers to Dithmenos to not be seen by the guards
- A bounty hunter (I think possibly a gargoyle?) going to a larger temple of Dithmenos for a proper service (and remarking on how some non-trivial number of her targets are probably also in the audience with her, but nobody would say a word about it)
also, prayers to Dithmenos are always whispered. (Side note: I really like Dithmenos as a god for all who work in shadow, rather than just an evil god of darkness.)
topaz plinth
I'm not sure if it's the best use of my general talents but it's the one that ke...
The best use of your talent points is gonna take a while to figure out yeah
Like, different talents have different scaling and breakpoints, some talents gain dramatically in power at level 3 or 5
Some sustain talents are really good but you can't afford to spend the resources for them until much later - e.g. the Archmage class has to consider this very carefully since Disruption Shield gets stronger the bigger their mana pool is
pulsar comet
Yeah it can be a big learning curve with talents what’s worth investing in or not
Lots of great talents out there that are nevertheless one point wonders because they don’t scale meaningfully with more points
cosmic ibex
I feel bad that I'm fighting these guys. XD
I do love how the game makes it very clear that just because people see ogres as stupid, doesn't remotely mean they are.
topaz plinth
oh yeah you're doing the orc campaign
i generally think it's better than the base one in a lot of ways, but it does have a lot less options when it comes to buildcraft
cosmic ibex
I did note when I started and had exactly one option I could play. Orc Buzzsaw Man
I'm starting to feel a bit of a dickhead 😛
topaz plinth
eh, if you're paying attention it's a bit of a tragic plot, assholes inside the alliance were basically doing their best to genocide the orcs despite being forbidden from doing so
and the way it shakes out, there's not really any room for any sane people in the room to try and talk to each other
cosmic ibex
Oh yeah, it's less 'I think I'm the bad guy' and more 'I feel like this plot is a real downer where I kill a lot of good people'.
Also: I literally just bound the soul of a grieving man to the wedding ring of his wife I just killed to make it more powerful.
I think I'm a bit of a the bad guy
cosmic ibex
Oh no, Libertarians
cosmic ibex
I know being a turn-based game I have only myself to blame but man I feel like the presentation of some enemies could be better.
I just got killed by bandits because I failed to notice that among the 4 level 15 bandits was a single level 27 one.
Who then proceeded to rip half my health off the moment he got close.
Kinda mean for a guy with literally no name and the same icon as everyone else alongside him to have dramatically different stats.
void field
Oh huh, no different bar or nothing? That's a little odd yeah
junior obsidian
are you complaining about a snes era fire emblem game? i feel like we as humanity have moved past that
radiant hatch
are you complaining about a snes era fire emblem game? i feel like we as humanit...
...this is the tradrogue channel, Iki is talking about ToME
no need for that
junior obsidian
my b was too vague
rigid sleet
junior obsidian
i'm doing a borg run now,
but there's a crash bug that prevents me from advancign to the next map how I planned to an kyz says he can't quickly fix it
junior obsidian
found out the exact thing I instantly thought of when I thought about this mechanic had already been thought of and patched out
no golem borgs :(
gleaming sparrow
zamn
rigid sleet
misty blaze
I have been meaning to get art of the carapaced part-plant axe freak I eventually defeated Qud with
misty blaze
rocky jewel
random thought apropos of nothing: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup should add an unrandart talisman.
rigid sleet
Yesss
rigid sleet
rotund basalt
Digging tools in the offhand are now preferred over primary non-digging weapons when attacking diggable objects.
god bless the qud devs
You now get notified that you gain a [redacted] when you [redacted].
rigid sleet
cunning spindle
https://www.tumblr.com/robindaydream/807757108008435712/the-only-surviving-scree...
This reminds me of Zincland’s Powder, which was a tradrogue designed to be playable on GBA (though also compatible with a variety of other systems)
junior obsidian
There is someone in the cogmind discord who used to stream powder all the time
soft notch
Does anyone know what this guy is good at anyways
All the thing that synergise with killing your allies already give you plenty of methods to do it\
quiet raven
I think I cleared that god with a valr build but it wasn't very good
misty blaze
Does anyone know what this guy is good at anyways
Death Knight is pretty good with Angra
Lizardman Death Knight of Angra is solid because you can build basically full martial
rigid sleet
rigid sleet
junior obsidian
had one of the guards at the stilt in coq have a saad amus disguise
misty blaze
I want to make a joke about how the fucking cops scared me by cosplaying as one of history's greatest killers but that feels inappropriate in current year
I don't even remember what Saad Amus did, did he lead some attack against Resheph or something...?
rigid sleet
rigid sleet
rigid sleet
rocky jewel
thinking about Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup again.
And a very funny and understated bit which most people will probably never see because it involves the item descriptions on spellbooks, which have been made much rarer and most people would probably never see to begin with because if you pick up a spellbook you just immediately get the spells and the book ceases to exist mechanically.
Great Wizards, Vol. II
A collection of spells from great wizards throughout history. The author seems to have been extremely enthusiastic, and each wizard is described in voluminous, comprehensive detail.
Great Wizards, Vol. VII
A collection of spells from great wizards throughout history. The author seems to have been quite tired of their project - the wizards' descriptions are terse and minimal, meeting the lowest requirement for completeness.
oh this is an interesting piece of lore I never knew, hidden in the description of the Book of the Earth:
A guide to drawing immense power from the depths of the earth. The original was written as a collaboration between the hill dwarves and the mountain dwarves, but its compilation was cut short when a massive wave of earthquakes plunged the hill dwarves' civilisation into ruin.
another subtle Secret Lore Drop on the Book of Fire:
A book containing advanced spells in the elemental school of Fire, stolen from the secret college of the djinn.
rocky jewel
Oh no. I just discovered the wiki is sometimes missing flavor text on some entries
ornate patio
Hmm. I have. Steam veraions. Of. ToME. ADoM. And CoQ.
ornate patio
another subtle Secret Lore Drop on the Book of Fire:
> A book containing advanc...
Those are some good flavor texts.
rigid sleet
autumn garnet
for lost flame players: does the game support keyboard-less play aka controller or full mouse control?
asking as someone who wonders if i can play it on Deck
autumn garnet
(answered elsewhere)
rigid sleet
rigid sleet
misty blaze
Are there any other tradrogues with Qud's economy where you're trading treasure and trade goods as your primary currency more than actual fungible coins?
junior obsidian
in qud water is your fungible coin and there are many fixed value objects that are also fungible: gemstones, nuggets(copper,silver, gold), ingots (copper, silver, gold). what really sets it apart is that if you want to have a lot of value it's necessary to also have it be light enough to carry if you want to make a very large transaction
topaz plinth
Are there any other tradrogues with Qud's economy where you're trading treasure ...
dwarf fortress adventure mode ig
rigid sleet
Yeah water is the unit of currency in qud I was gonna say
junior obsidian
https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/commit/9d27cfe8b819af6b216b0745a1460b08039af9dd
today during the nethackathon charity streaming marathon I accidentally selected every option in the full options menu and had to deal with it in front of a small audience. have you ever fucked up so badly in a rougelike that the developers patched out your mistake in a matter of hours? LOL
rigid sleet
LOL
rigid sleet
rotund basalt
so turns out single weapon fighting + pickaxe is an extremly good way to dig in qud
it just shreds everything
rigid sleet
pliant cradle
whough
pliant cradle
teehee
rigid sleet
Eee it's me
rigid sleet
<@202484234982522889> time to grind reputation
Lol
rotund basalt
LETS GOOOOOOOOOO
rigid sleet
LETS GOOOOOOOOOO
Ooh what's that
rotund basalt
it gives you reputation with a faction
the chapter unspecified version lets you choose the faction
so now i have easy rep just need to get enough metamorphic polygel
its one of those items where i just need 1 of
and then i repeatedly clone it when i need it
like eater nectar
or neutron flux/cloning draught
and late late game
items that disassemble into 6-7-8 bits
anyway
i never find one when im looking for one
so im happy to have one now :3
cosmic ibex
Help me, I can't stop just going straight to the Naphtaali as a True Kin
And Befriending Their Godheads
Just so All Robots Like Me
rigid sleet
its one of those items where i just need 1 of
and then i repeatedly clone it whe...
Ah yes of course
Qud stuff
Carry on
rigid sleet
Just so All Robots Like Me
I recommend therapy
rotund basalt
so i can farm polygel
cosmic ibex
The last time I did this I got blown up due to being friendly to robots because a Chrome Pyramid saw me fighting enemies and went 'DON'T WORRY FRIEND, I'LL SAVE YOU WITH MY ROCKET LAUNCHER'
rotund basalt
LOL
rigid sleet
Robots continuing to be metaphors for autists I see
rotund basalt
chrome pyramid continue to be the funniest enemy
the fact that theyre eligible to be the librarian in the stilt is still the funniest thing to happen to me
twice
cosmic ibex
Robots continuing to be metaphors for autists I see
Wait does mean me needing to build up reputation of robots refers to a need to develop self-respect?
rigid sleet
Yes
cosmic ibex
Okay. I'll go beat up extradimensional psychics until I get more EGO.
rotund basalt
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE
@topaz plinth @rigid sleet
ive finally got a run where i got all the ingredients
(penetrating radar would be nice but its non essential)
anyway for those that dont know
precision force lathe fabricates force knives i can throw
mirror arm lets me throw two at once
parabolic muscular subroutine makes me perfectly accurate
phase-adaptive scope means i can throw them through walls
rigid sleet
I... I see
cosmic ibex
How is throwing True Kin? I'll admit I tend to go gun
rotund basalt
its ok?
punchkin is way more consistent
and i honestly wanted to get this just to do it once
im gathering parts for a gun builds too
spare parts i have so far :3
so plan is to hunt for giant hands
and do gun memes with that + gun rack + equipment rack + helping hands
i know how to mod items with jacked
so i can sustain up to 20 eigen rifles per turn with the biodynamic plant
or 10 light rails
or 6 linear cannons which is perfect for equipment rack + 2 sets of helping hands
i also have the 1% drops mod installed
so i could maybe find a fusion cell recipe
but idk how fast those generate energy
cosmic ibex
1% drops mod?
rotund basalt
it adds a bunch of neat rare drops
including a breeder cell and a fusion cell from pyramids and stalkers
Anticarbon Emitter Cannon
whatever this is too
its a 1% from a decarbonizer so not likely ill ever see one or a recipe for one
rotund basalt
my esper character is going well so far
2 columns of desert done
just 10 more to go :)
pulsar comet
better dig there. that might be the tip of a ruin
rotund basalt
is there a way to mark a parasang as notable
idk how to save this location for when i have access to some kind of digging
oh wait i have a skulk injector
oh right
digging up and down is a different thing
ah ok journal can add locations
rigid sleet
<@140921736588689408>
What's that :o
rotund basalt
unique gun
it spawns somewhere on the map randomly
only way to find it is studying the markov chain books for clues to its location
or getting lucky with one of the way of acquiring secrets/rumors
or just stumbling upon it in an empty desert tile like i did
this is my first time finding it ever
rigid sleet
Lmao
This is your heroic origin story
The lady who just found the gun in the desert
rotund basalt
You know
I'm starting to remember why I just stick to melee chimera (or mostly physical) builds
I love the idea of esper
But it needs so much piloting
Meanwhile on a high level chimera I can just hold auto attack and still semi reliably kill god
Sure the esper can probably kill god more consistently and earlier but it requires so much thinking
cosmic ibex
Damn mind powers, requiring thinking.
rotund basalt
I might redo my melee mutant
Just without chimera
So I can maybe pick up some utility mental mutations
topaz plinth
yeah Chimera is funny but you can kinda get enough damage without the extra limbs to kill absolutely anything
and you give up so, so, so much utility
conversely, I find the best Espers still are still really good at melee
if only via SWF etc.
rotund basalt
Swf?
topaz plinth
single weapon fighting
rotund basalt
Ah
rotund basalt
i didnt know you can get artifact eater nectars :o
junior obsidian
holy crap he has neutron flux in a phial
rotund basalt
he has 1 dram of every fluid in a phial :3
rigid sleet
rotund basalt
my horde grows
rotund basalt
cleaned the liquids and made some walls with step sowers
~w~
upbeat skiff
Gosh I need to play Qud again at some point
Haven't in a while
It's just
So peak
rigid sleet
rotund basalt
temporal fugue cloning your grenades feels so unfair
im at 100 cold resist
so i just have 5 cold grenades equipped
and i spawn in 7 copies
35 cold grenades sure freeze everything in a hurry
i had the genius idea of trying normality grenades first cause i wanted to deal with the twinning and trining lampreys
and i forgot normality glass clears my clones too
wait
i
i need a source of phasing
and then i can equip a phase-conjugate handenuke
pulsar comet
oh shit, gal squared
rigid sleet
is... is that intentional
rotund basalt
intentional in what way?
rigid sleet
the error missing hex value
rotund basalt
the name?
rigid sleet
if it's a bug i'll report it
rotund basalt
i think so?
rotund basalt
it just spawned like that
also
my game is fairly modded
so slight chance its from that
rigid sleet
ahhhh
rigid sleet
junior obsidian
he has 1 dram of every fluid in a phial :3
doesnt neutron flux usually need a special conatiner
cosmic ibex
doesnt neutron flux usually need a special conatiner
Only to put it in!
If it's already there, it's fine!
junior obsidian
the alchemist is a super space wizard
cosmic ibex
Just don't try to pour it out into anything but your lunch.
junior obsidian
i'll throw it at a redacted
rotund basalt
doesnt neutron flux usually need a special conatiner
using collect liquid doesnt blow you up either
so you can do stuff like this
rotund basalt
just need to progress the main quest now :3
rotund basalt
well there we are
the last one isnt even worth it
its a temporal fugue with a longer cooldown and you cant spam it with quicken mind
also it puts me over 20 glimmer so id rather not
im right on the line with my temporal fugue items at 17
quantum fugue puts me at 22
rotund basalt
might go back to my true kin build
and try and realise my thousand guns dreams (aka 8 rifles at once)
rotund basalt
i do still need to kill all the nephilim
so good goal for this run
(i just rewrote history and rituald all of them for the screenshot above)
wait
if i magnetize helping hands
and go to brightsheol
12 rifles
and if i feel particularly masochistic i can go farm a gamma moth for a multiple arms
but that feels a bit extra at that point
cosmic ibex
The funniest run I've had, my true kin got mental mutations and already had a lot of ego for Robot/Followermaxing.
So all of a sudden these interdimensional assholes turn up and start attacking
rotund basalt
wait
Missile weapon slots will not be granted
booooooooooo
helping hands dont give rifle slots
BOOOOOOOOOO
cosmic ibex
And are entirely unprepared for the power of 'Okay but what if I don't care about your psyker stuff and just throw normality grenades and shoot you?'
cosmic ibex
I do think True Kin could do with some more variety in implants if they ever wanted to expand that.
In part because ego as a stat basicly just exists for them for 'I guess I want to Befriend Robots'
It's not Much of A Build.
Even if it's fun
I could see them adding some more 'I do hacker stuff' to ego, as that's the one thing ego has for them right now.
Give them a 'Hey, i quickhacked your stuff' implant option that temporarily turns off EMP-vulnerable gear or such
topaz plinth
And are entirely unprepared for the power of 'Okay but what if I don't *care* ab...
all the best esper builds do stuff like this for exactly this reason tbh
junior obsidian
also it puts me over 20 glimmer so id rather not
but glimmer is good! you get hunters and then you get to use precognition to farm them for ego! then you get more glimmer!
i love glimmer!!!
rotund basalt
yeah but i dont need extra ego on a non esper build
autumn garnet
attempting at cogmind again, is "how to expand the amount of slots available" written in the manual or is it something that's to be found out by the player?
gleaming sparrow
it is written in the manual
you get more slots by going to the next level
also there is a Cogmind thread if you have more specific questions
autumn garnet
oh, right, i forgot about that
rigid sleet
also there is a Cogmind thread if you have more specific questions
I've been focusing on this thread because that specific thread feels like a double bury of the topic
And as usual it's best to just post in the main channel
rigid sleet
oh, right, i forgot about that
You need to enter a higher floor of main.c
If you travel up but you're outside the facility you won't evolve
You'll just need to return back at some point
soft notch
You can press Backspace to check the node map of the floors
autumn garnet
i see
soft notch
Lmao
rigid sleet
@topaz plinth
topaz plinth
Yeah it's not super useful a lot of the time
soft notch
Finally made it to -3
junior obsidian
oooh
rigid sleet
regal dome
I finished ToME4 on normal for the first time the other day, had a lot of fun. Particularly memorable moment was opening this door and immediately getting a steam achievement basically telling me I made a mistake
regal dome
The worst part is that I was using See the Threads before facechecking vaults like that, but there was another one on the floor right below this one that was much less dangerous
So I spent it on that one
pulsar comet
I usually do clear out that room but not all at once, they hit a bit hard
Much easier to lure them off one by one
Grats on the win, it’s a tough game 😌
regal dome
Thank you!
pulsar comet
(||Vor Armory|| layout is fully static btw, do that door is always that vault)
topaz plinth
I finished ToME4 on normal for the first time the other day, had a lot of fun. P...
yeah you don't get to do that above normal difficulty unless you know exactly what you're doing
vaults in general can get very very spicy around the time you reach level 30+
(sometimes lower)
pulsar comet
Honestly right around Dreadfell is where they start to get real spicy, imo
though Rhaloren Camp vaults get an honorable mention for having a chance to spawn out of depth enemies from the Dark Crypt
Open a door and see a level 30 elven blood mage, that shit's scary even when you're actually level 24 like the Dark Crypt is balanced for
topaz plinth
mm, lots of burst, though I think individually they're not too scary as long as you're keeping on top of your resistances and other defensive layers
the big danger in Dark Crypt is partially the layout, partially how the enemies will teleport you around and expose you to and aggro way more enemies than you'd like
pulsar comet
oh sure, but that much burst is insanely deadly when you're doing Rhaloren Camp at level 10
I'm actually in camp "Dark Crypt isn't that bad now"
it's nasty but funnily enough the ogre update made it easier
since there are now ogre enemies mixed in with the Rhaloren Mages
topaz plinth
oh yeah I never do Rhaloren Camp at 10, might be part of it, it's usually the T1 dungeon I do last
mm, yeah, the issue with Dark Crypt is mostly that you get one shot at it
pulsar comet
and while they can be dangerous in their own way, that's less burst pile-on
pulsar comet
mm, yeah, the issue with Dark Crypt is mostly that you get one shot at it
Yeah the main threats are blight damage one-shots and getting dark portaled into the middle of an open area and aggroing the whole room of mages at once, which isn't technically a one-shot but might as well be
the secondary threat is winning a fight and then realizing you're taking 100 points of damage from disease for the next twenty turns and being out of status clears and with your healing options on cooldown
topaz plinth
Ah, I meant in the sense that you can't retreat out of the zone with disabling it
Though if you get through the first floor you can do at least some stairdancing
misty blaze
I finished ToME4 on normal for the first time the other day, had a lot of fun. P...
Are there any modern tradrogues trying to spiritually succeed Mystery Dungeon? Cassette Beasts Mystery Dungeon when
pulsar comet
it's not the same but the name "Monster House" just instantly puts me in mind of Dredmor's Monster Zoo music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8pGEcqdfew (it's called Brawl but it's what plays when you open a monster zoo)
misty blaze
it's not the same but the name "Monster House" just instantly puts me in mind of...
The Monster Zoos absolutely share DNA with Mystery Dungeon
rigid sleet
https://youtu.be/6nn8bU7CWJc?si=5ovpa5ALpWlw6sER
I don't know enough about mystery dungeon to notice if other games are like it. What's it like?
misty blaze
I don't know enough about mystery dungeon to notice if other games are like it. ...
Structurally it's very story driven, that's a big thing, lots of time dedicated to actual cutscenes and dialog, and going into a set of distinct dungeons that are randomly generated but follow themes--typing, mostly, related to the story.
misty blaze
Yeah. You can bring stuff in and out like an Extraction game, but your level is consistent across runs
Lots of town stuff, upgrading town facilities, and doing sidequests to either get new town facilities or to get additional party members to bring as thirds alongside you and your partner character
misty blaze
Super Mystery Dungeon added this Materia-adjacent system that wasn't shared between runs but it wasn't very fun.
Yeah you only lose money and items when you get downed.
and if you use a Game Link Cable (TM) you can rescue a friend's downed player characters!
rigid sleet
Fair enough
misty blaze
But yeah the big thing was the randomization and the repeated runs... does that make it more like a turn based Diablo than a conventional roguelike?
rigid sleet
https://store.steampowered.com/app/628770/Tangledeep/ ? @silent flicker do you have any insight into games like mystery dungeon?
@misty blaze try this ^
People seem to compare it to md
misty blaze
oooo thank you!
autumn garnet
tangledeep technically fits the mold of a mystery dungeon i'd say
TIL there's a gundam MD
checks notes
on the mobile phone
double checks
exclusive to japan, ok that makes sense
because of course this would exist: https://store.steampowered.com/app/931500/TOD_RELOADED/
rigid sleet
I see I see
misty blaze
because of course this would exist: https://store.steampowered.com/app/931500/TO...
I saw this one earlier and for some reason I thoyght it didn't have any out of dungeon stuff, maybe that was the original
autumn garnet
i should mention that i did not try the game myself
rigid sleet
wild hearth
starred
rigid sleet
rigid sleet
rigid sleet
rigid sleet
