Knowing that he'd eventually go crazy
#League of Legends
stray mason
Oh.
mighty crow
But it's worth remembering all of the Darkin were heroes
We just don't see most of them in their pre-crazy state
stray mason
Oh, right...
rain girder
Yeah, they fought the Void and the Void lost, but it drove them mad
rustic osprey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JcDn6chagc&list=RD7JcDn6chagc&start_radio=1 such a great opening ceremony
rain girder
If Garen is calling on Kayle's power when he ults
Why can he ult Kayle
checkmate demacians
spice glen
because she is dumb and goes "Aight....wait shit-"
mighty crow
Kayle is very firm on justice applying to EVERYONE
rustic kite
If Garen is calling on Kayle's power when he ults
Y'know, I never actually questioned where the giant sword of light comes from
mighty crow
His burning manly spirit ofc
rain girder
Yeah, he calls upon the Winged Protector, guardian deities of Justice from Demacia's history, revered as an angelic saint type deal.
Who also happens to be Kayle, name long lost to history.
rustic kite
Intentionally?
rain girder
yes
They made his W get bonus damage against monsters
and he takes less damage from monsters
with a base armor buff on top of that
rustic kite
Nice
Honestly his play pattern works pretty well as a jungler instead of midlane if he can actually clear
rain girder
Yeah, not having a good clear speed was what held him back
I played it before he had this buff
and now he's really good actually
rustic kite
Meanwhile Alistar is never allowed to jungle because his ganks are too good for someone that tanky
rustic kite
I just remember him as the classic "not allowed" example
rain girder
Yeah they gave abunch of champions bonus jungle monster damage
riven, aatrox, fizz, etc
rustic kite
Oh Riven is surprising
rustic kite
Oh Ornn? He never has to fountain if he can jungle
rain girder
fuckin
Pentakill gaming
23 of my team's 43 kills
I'm so fucking good at this champ q.q
lyric viper
tbf you outjungled the hell outta that Zaahen
so you are pretty damn good with the bug
rain girder
Working my way to that 1mil mastery
I just kinda perma invaded him
he loses in small fights and kha'zix's entire burst window is 2-3 small fights
toxic cargo
Yeah, Zaahen needs to stick to be good, the 1.5s window for q reactivation isn't the best either
stray mason
Welp, they got me, I'm ending my hiatus
spice glen
why does she look like aatrox
mighty crow
Gah
Ok so league specifically is a game mostly about winning through one inch of advantage at a time
And then big explosive plays leveraging your advantages
You have to like little things adding up to big things imo
If you want to do like, insane fucked up bullshit, I think dota does more being just unfair, but you gotta be ok with more things being unfair to you too
rain girder
Yeah, it's a game of inches for sure
But also, there's different ways to have fun beyond just "ranked grind go brr"
Example: Playing assassins feels like crack and I love doing it, with my primary goal in any given game being to be the best I possibly can regardless of win/lose
Obviously I am attempting to win, but my focus is on playing my buggy boi the best I can
silver heath
The thing about jungling is that no matter what you do it’s wrong dummy
rain girder
this is true
nobody has ever jungled properly
But yeah my personal goal playing League these days is sheer champion mastery over rank
Both in terms of the mastery system and also just mechanical prowess
woeful shuttle
thats also how you gain rank tbph
mighty crow
Yeah just playing the best you can consistently is how you win
IDK how else you would
XD
woeful shuttle
climbing imo is maintaining a 51% winrate and playing consistently
thats it
there is nothing more to it
rain girder
This is true!
rain girder
It's why I focus on that
mighty crow
But you absolutely have to be ok with losing, just like every other competitive game
rain girder
I got a sick penta a while ago and I'm sad I didn't clip it
complete with a triplejump
bold compass
https://tenor.com/view/kha6-khazix-jungler-jungler-pathing-tony-hawk-gif-1258275...
What does this mean
You are just saying words
rain girder
jungler = role in the game whose main goal is acquiring gold leads through objectives, jungle monsters, and seeking opportunities in the lanes
pathing = The path you take through the jungle to get to your objectives, usually referencing the order in which they clear the monsters
top = top lane, where people often overextend or have rough fights
grinding = Focusing primarily on killing jungle monsters with little regard for the lanes
translated for you. :P
lyric viper
Grinding = also doing sick tricks on a skateboard (can't do it in league)
spice glen
man wish they would deliver on this trailer lore into an actual game game or something that isn't a 5v5 game.
mighty crow
Looks at LoR
That had great lore, it just wasn't really monetized
Also we had like, the Riot Forge games, but they didn't do great overall
And then got cancelled
spice glen
Admittedly not wrong.
mighty crow
At this point I'm just happy to get my written lore still
spice glen
and that one mmo that's totally still in production and hasn't been cancelled outright.
mighty crow
Considering it's unclear that the lore helps them monetize at all outside of Arcane
spice glen
But like each of those small stories told me that each one of them could have been a different genre of a game.
Sona's bit was a tower defence/base defence (sorta, bit of a reach)
Garen's segment was straight up what league is.
Yunara's was an infinite runner.
Quinn and Shyvana's bit was like a co-op arena fighter? (sorta)
Also no lux, which was surprising.
but yeah, your average riot player, do not really play more games outside of LoL or Valorant, so it honestly makes sense that Riot forge didn't do as well as it should have.
woeful shuttle
LoR they needed to actually charge money for
way too easy to F2P and not spend a dime which makes a very good game but a very bad product
mighty crow
Yeah, and they couldn't monetize the cosmetics like League does
People just didn't care enough about them to buy them mostly
Which let them at a point where they could walk back their entire monetization model and start charging people for things they promised not to, or try to pivot to something else
And they decided to pivot to the PvE unlocks, which seems to be working ok for them
rain girder
Assuming that these events are happening simultaneously, and not spread out through time, Lux by this point has fled Demacia and started her own refuge for mages
Curious who this dragon is. It's not Yvva, and probably not Smolder's mom
mighty crow
Smolder's mom is an Elder Dragon which this is not
This is a fire dragon pretty sure
rain girder
Yeah. Could be one of Shyvana's siblings
mighty crow
Half-sibling probably? Is she still a half-dragon?
rain girder
Probably full sibling just because of how they changed the biology of dragons to work
She still hatched from the same clutch of eggs as the others, but proximity to humans made her Something Else(tm) when she hatched
rain girder
Yeah, a mage basically stole one of Yvva's eggs, and was trying to sell it but it hatched to a humanoid girl with purple skin
and he wasn't about to sell a child like that
mighty crow
Well.
Stealing sentient being eggs bad, but at least once it looked friendly he was like "Nope can't do that."
rain girder
So he raised her and eventually Yvva found her and came after them
Oh yeah, it's fucked but at least he had a change of heart lol
then eventually Yvva attacks Demacia and Shyvana fights her and wins
mighty crow
Oh, why are you sure it's not Yvva then?
rain girder
Assuming it's in current times and that the events shown aren't like, scattered throughout history
Yvva was killed by Shyvana a goood while ago
mighty crow
Ahhh. Hmm.
rain girder
Now, if they ARE scattered through time that could be Yvva
But given that Yunara is like "Yo, Jarvan, sorry about Xin Zhao, he's kind of a darkin now"
"Here's his spearhead btw"
mighty crow
Hmm, I think they're happening at different times
And we're just seeing pivotol moments for each character's story
rain girder
Possibly! No Lux is a little weird in that case, but I guess they wanted to put emphasis on tying the story in with the Noxus and Ionia part as well as highlighting Shyvana
Lux gets so much attention anyways, surprised we got to see Quinn basically at all XD
Sona fighting off the demons was a nice add, too. Sona doesn't get much attention anymore.
rustic osprey
Nocturne ASU hype trust
rain girder
pull a gangplank and remove Garen from the game
midway through the season
this MIGHT be Yvva's skull from the Sylas game
whatever they do with Shyvana, I really hope she doesn't have that stupid AP build anymore
hate that
mighty crow
They've said they're not changing her gameplay much IIRC
So I'd be surprised if she's still not at least an AP Bruiser/Jugg type
But I'm hoping she leans more tank
rain girder
I prefer AD shyvana, not the fireball throwing build
I like bruiser/tank yeah
this year I will complete my goal though
1 million mastery on kha'zix
266k to go
lyric viper
BANG BANG BRAVERN GALIO???
mighty crow
So
This is top lane according to Riot
Note that this doesn't include about half of the top lane bushes lmao
Like, you have to be on the close side of the bushes to get progress on your quest
If you're up against the wall? Nope, no quest progress.
Also if you're proxying? The enemy top laner can't stop you without losing progress
Since as soon as they go behind their own tower to stop you, they start losing quest progress while you don't
rustic kite
Oh no
mighty crow
And if the mid laner comes to gank you because you're behind their 2nd tower? They're losing quest progress too for not being in their lane.
XD
spice glen
what's the quest for?
mighty crow
Every lane has a quest now
Top lane quest gives about the exp to go from level 5 to level 6, and 12.5% more exp the rest of the game, teleport(or a 30% shield on your teleport if you already had it), and the ability to go to level 20.
Mid lane gives you tier 3 boots, which are better than they were before and this is the only way to get them now
ADC gets 300 gold and more gold for every kill on minions and champs
And a 7th item slot
Support gets an item slot just for control wards and cheaper control wards and almost twice as much passive gold after they complete their quest
Jungle gets 4% movement speed in jungle and river, 8% out of combat
And more gold and exp for taking camps
toxic cargo
Alcove prison time
Time to put enemy sion there while his wave crashes under the tower
Also gods
I despise playing normals
Like
I don't want to smash down some poor silver 2 toplaner
😭
woeful shuttle
such is normals
toxic cargo
i guess I have to self nerf myself and pick ambessa every time with 0 combo knowledge
rain girder
I'm so happy about new umbral glaive
just that extra bit of damage makes it so much more appealing on assassins actually
toxic cargo
Also I see there is new ap jax technology on the block
gunblade into dnd into zhonya
spice glen
looking into it more, I really do like the quest system, but I Feel like the lanes being...half? is kinda stupid.
it's kinda the one idea I thought about where specific lanes would give that lane player's champion stats that benefitted that lane, and if you left said lane, it would have like a minute or two of uptime before it would wear off.
So you could still roam, but it also encouraged the players to be tighter on their plays and speedier about them.
I admittedly also only wanted just small amount of stats, not level 20, tier 3 boots, or a 7th item slot. (for each lane)
but also I think those quests will only really matter low rank as higher rank matches can be relatively quick.
mighty crow
Nah they're gonna matter at all ranks imo
You get like a kill of gold for completing the adc one, almost a level for the top lane one, and a ton of gold in stats for mid lane
The support gets an extra gold per second and cheaper pink wards which will add up fast too
And jungler will kind of just complete theirs accidentally same as they always have by being a jungle
spice glen
jungle and support having their items sooner is not that bad of a thing, atleast in late game.
mighty crow
Jungle gets a bunch of bonus exp too
So they won't be behind in levels from mid and... Well I guess top is still going to be ahead since they just get 12.5% more exp now
spice glen
they get more, and have level 20
like the level 20, tier 3 boots and 7th item slot are way more scary to me than champions getting their items sooner
mighty crow
Yeah but IDK how much the level 20 is gonna matter vs being 16 before other people are kind of deal
7th item slot and level 20 are the worst rewards imo
spice glen
well you're better off comparing that when top lane pops off painfully hard, they get to keep the power
mighty crow
The bonus gold and exp are going to matter a lot more than increasing the theoretical power caps
Imo
spice glen
eh, it just means matches speed up and reach their power spikes sooner with the increases.
mighty crow
Adc hitting their 3 item spike faster or level 11 top laner coming down when you're level 9
Are way more overly impactful to how we're going to have to play
Most games don't get to level 18 or 6 items, although it'll be cool when those are relevant
I think they're mostly so it doesn't feel like if the game goes long your extra gold or exp doesn't matter
Although I'm also an emerald to diamond player so my perspective is more that kind of vibe too, we might just be dealing with different types of games
spice glen
yeah, as lower rank players don't know how to keep a power spike going and fuck it up more often
but higher ranks tend to know how to...well above master do
so higher rank matches are shorter, which I Think again, they were already really short
The only ones that go long again is like grand master up but I seriously doubt they will really care about those changes, as they just deal with it normally
like from gold down, matches are long because sure they do snow ball, but rarely do the players know how to keep the pressure and like win win without it being like a Mental difference.
People will still throw matches, they'll still choose to blame the power difference on the items, and levels, but the overall impact of getting levels sooner is super minimal, as their matches go long anyway.
and if top lane, or adc or whatever just get fed, then they'll still have a level advantage anyway, so getting level and gold sooner are a nothing burger.
because if they are already getting their quest done, they probably are already snow balling.
and all it does is lock them in to win that bit faster.
Getting to level 20, 7th item and tier 3 boots would have substantial effects on those longer matches.
Which is what lower rank players tend to have.
mighty crow
The only ones that go long again is like grand master up but I seriously doubt t...
They're really important actually because they curtail a lot of early game roaming.
The higher level metas have supports showing up in mid and jungle and even top constantly, and mid going all over the damn place.
With crystalline towers and the quests not progressing nearly as fast when you're not specifically in your lane, it's going to shift how people play until they get their quests completed a lot.
I actually think it matters a lot LESS at lower levels, because they'll... Just play 1v1 lanes like they always do generally?
Rather than like, have 4v4 or 5v5 fights even at minute 5-6 or w/e
spice glen
I think we're saying the same point.
People will just focus on their quest early game, in their own lane, to GET to later power spikes.
and the quest probably won't be done till level what 9-10? Not sure what it actually entails to do yet.
mighty crow
Yeah we'll see how it works out.
It's definitely intended to FORCE early game laning
Rather than uninteractive lanestates
mighty crow
It's definitely good for the new player experience IMO.
spice glen
or players who choose to be too whacky too often, making the games unfun for the others.
mighty crow
I've never really encountered whacky as a real problem tbh. Every once in a while someone is actually trolling?
spice glen
wait is the quest thing in ranked too or just norms
spice glen
yeah, basically a good thing because it will stop the lane swapping things they do, and will generally discourage aimless ganking.
sonic bane
The new season has been mind boggling
They switched the post-game chat to your actual side-colours
so if you start red side, its red font
which historically was for the enemy team talking
so here I am, post-game, arguing with a dude
look at his name, cross-reference check as he blabs on about how he was so good
oh its my ally
AWKWARD
Don't know why they changed that after having it one way for so long it will just now mess with your brain
rain girder
I have to give riot props
My champion has never felt better.
They literally gave Kha'zix an item built for him and it feels AMAZING.
toxic cargo
I had like 1 game where level 20 was achieved by any toplaner, both me and enemy because the game was so long.
but I definitely already got kills off completing quest and steamrolling level 11 vs level 9
inland marsh
been trying to learn lillia
this champion's skill floor feels bizarrely high
she absolutely needs to do weird jungle camp kiting bullshit to keep her movespeed stacks up
inland marsh
fortunately shes really fun and also adorable
mighty crow
But learning when you can just completely abandon a camp with 200 hp left and it'll just die is very stronk
Speeds up your clears a LOT
inland marsh
ngl its a bit of a flavor loss that lillia rewards you for playing so confidently
its very cool tho
and fortunately, jungle clears are The Easiest Thing Ever to use practice tool for
mighty crow
Truth!
inland marsh
so i can just keep labbing until i get the hang of it
i ended up switching to wasd almost entirely to make using Q while kiting easier
bc it lets me bind it to right click 😭
its a little fucked up that lillia is like
basically a one-button champion
W and E are too slow and telegraphed to land consistently without ult, and ult doesnt do anything unless you land another ability first
mighty crow
I mean, the W and E are good, the W being kinda technically a dash is nice even when it's not landing on top of an enemy
inland marsh
true
mighty crow
You can use it to dodge some things or just get a little burst of speed
E is MOSTLY not hard to land IME? As long as you're trying to land the initial lob anyway
inland marsh
im not certain how much faster W is compared to just having Q stacks
inland marsh
E is MOSTLY not hard to land IME? As long as you're trying to land the initial ...
fair, probably works well as an engage
they are also both great for jungle clears tho
mighty crow
The fantasy of lobbing a super long range E into R is NICE, but mostly what you do is you walk up to someone and you lob it from like, the farthest range you can that it isn't traveling on the ground.
inland marsh
yeah
mighty crow
Also Lilia is a champ that REALLY likes a friend who can apply CC, at which point both the E and W are really nice.
inland marsh
absolutely
mighty crow
And you're a jungler, so most of the time if you're fighting, you should have a friend
Her 1v1 is... Fine but definitely not good lmao
inland marsh
id kill for a friend at around my skill level (very low) who plays morgana lmao
inland marsh
Her 1v1 is... Fine but definitely not good lmao
her 1v1 is amazing against melee champs but rough against ranged champs
she has one speed and it is Faster Than You
mighty crow
Her ability to fuck off if she's vs a melee champion that beats her is high, but she often doesn't actually win vs a lot of them
mighty crow
Lilia's strengths are clear speed and team fights, and she can provide damage to ganks but is... Pretty meh at them unless your lanes can provide all the CC you need
inland marsh
yeah
mighty crow
It's a bit of a rough meta for her atm tbh, since jungle objectives are a lot less of a priority than they were last season
inland marsh
her ult is kinda just an "ok the gank is now over, we win the fight" button which is nice
mighty crow
She's good at the 2v2 fights because she can easily choose priority and be impossible to pin down, which means if your ally can play well not just get caught you tend to be able to just pick enemies apart
But that's a lot less possible when you DON'T have the pressure of the ally
inland marsh
...damn im seriously considering lillia support
mighty crow
Plz no
She does nothing until level 6
XD
You cannot keep charged speed as a support
inland marsh
ah good point
mighty crow
She can top and jungle, and only top in some PRETTY specific matchups
Since she just loses trades vs a lot of folks
And loses the sustain wars vs the sustain top laners
inland marsh
yeah ive learned that playing her top is an exercise in matchup knowledge
its a real shame shes so matchup-dependent bc shes kinda the only champion i have any interest in playing lmao
mighty crow
I mean the only way you get the MU knowledge is by getting messed up a lot
inland marsh
yup
trying to figure out which junglers to pick up in case she gets banned
i would just go with kindred and/or khazix bc i remember liking them but those are kinda the champs i want to be banning
maybe skarner now that he has more abilities than just ult?
mighty crow
i would just go with kindred and/or khazix bc i remember liking them but those a...
Well you can only ban one of them
Skarner is REALLY hard
I'd pick up easier characters as secondary if you're going to main someone hard like Lilia
inland marsh
fair
mighty crow
Which also takes out Kindred
Kha isn't bad tho' he has... Mostly the same problems as Lilia?
Are there any tanks or AD bruiser types you're ok with?
OPtimally your secondary champs fill in the roles your main doesn't
inland marsh
maybe warwick, hes extremely funny
mighty crow
So if you look at a game and there's no one you want to be Lilia vs on the enemy team
You can play your secondary too
WW is nice, very easy.
Nice mixed damage bruiser
How do you feel about the jungle Malphite?
He's really good atm
inland marsh
oh theres fiddlesticks but-- oh god you can play malphite jungle??? fuck yeah ill pick up malphite jungle
mighty crow
Oh! Yeah they patched him recently, and he's quite strong now.
You go PTA and just build sunfire into tank stats
W max instead of Q
W > E > Q for jungle speed and utility
So the one thing is all 3 of these champs uhhhhh, are very ult reliant
inland marsh
the website i use for getting a general idea of how to build a champion claims that malphite JG is "d tier" but doesnt tell me what metrics they use so i will ignore it
inland marsh
So the one thing is all 3 of these champs uhhhhh, are very ult reliant
yeah lol
mighty crow
Op.gg says Malphite Jungle has a 51.15% winrate globally in emerald+, which is pretty good tbh.
inland marsh
i dont rlly see that as much of an issue bc its not like theres a champion with a "become immune to ults" button
mighty crow
EEspecially since he's VERY EASY
So the main problem is that it means your champ pool is BAD at contesting stuff pre-6
mighty crow
Rammus is fine but hard to generally pick? He's very much a counter pick, right.
How do you feel about Nunu?
inland marsh
ah yeah
mighty crow
Or J4?
inland marsh
ive tried nunu before and wasnt a fan
hold on i gotta look up j4's kit hes the most generic mf of all time
mighty crow
He is, but his kit is actually kinda fun IMO
Just lots of ability to decide what you want to do, lots of ability to choose how much damage youj want to build
inland marsh
alright i can def try j4
mighty crow
Cool, that gets you 4 junglers.
inland marsh
oh right what abt volibear
mighty crow
J4 is probably your "Oh god I need to gank this lane early or we're going to lose" or "Oh god we have ZERO attack damage on this team" threat
Voli is fine but just not very good right now jungle IMO?
mighty crow
Hmm, his data actually says he's pretty good
Yeah, feel free to throw in Voli instead of J4 whenever
See which one you like better
Looks like you generally want to be building triforce or dusk and dawn first, Q max but level it last
inland marsh
if only fiddlesticks did not overlap with lillia so much
inland marsh
Looks like you generally want to be building triforce or dusk and dawn first, Q ...
so weqqqrq?q
mighty crow
EW it looks like
inland marsh
oh wild
mighty crow
Then level Q > W > e
mighty crow
EW for clear, then Q for fighting and ganking I'm guessing
inland marsh
yeah
e is like lillia w
nuclear bomb with like four seconds to get out of the way
mighty crow
Yeah except you can press it where YOU want to be and still get a shield at least
Even if the enemy doesn't stand in it
Voli also actually has a stun with Q though too, if you drop E then Q to stun them usually people can't get out in time
inland marsh
alright so lillia > j4/voli/malphite/dog who does 11640 damage per second
mighty crow
A pretty common gank path if you can't come in behind people is to run in, then as you get in flash range go E -> Q -> Flash -> Auto
inland marsh
oh nice
mighty crow
It stuns them for the gank, and then the E slow is pretty big tbh
inland marsh
the freddy fivenights combo
mighty crow
I have no idea what that means, but go for it
inland marsh
bear that jumpscares you
spice glen
Wait what rank are you playing at?
inland marsh
none
i mostly dont play ranked
because a) ranked league has bad vibes and b) i am not good at the game
in the slightest
mighty crow
Caveat note btw: All of my discussion is not nearly as important as you having fun btw
These are winrate and champ pool optimizations
Always have fun first
🙂
spice glen
I was going to say, most of this talk was meta ranked talk, whether or not it would work in norms is a complete coinflip.
Aim for what you are comfortable with, and play with that.
mighty crow
I just have fun with optimization lmao
spice glen
I don't think Draft has bans? or is that quick play
spice glen
which one is just you go right into match
mighty crow
Swiftplay
inland marsh
draft has bans and is more fun than swiftplay imo because theres less chance of encountering pyke
spice glen
I guess if you ban him fair.
otherwise I wouldn't think you'd encounter pyke all that much, as I swore they kinda gimped him hard
inland marsh
might also pick up fiddlesticks once im comfortable on lillia
because sometimes i imagine lillia could get banned and id look at the enemy comp and think "damn i wish i could play lillia into this" and then fiddlesticks will likely be a solid pick
mighty crow
Strong recommendation. Learning Lilia will teach you a ton of the same skills as Fiddles anyway
Both of them are weird positioning AP ult champs
spice glen
Fiddle also lets you jump scare people IRL
inland marsh
i think they would be besties
mighty crow
Your weird positioning to optimize jungler clear is very different, but still weird
spice glen
if you're playing norms/draft, so many will just face tank a bush check, which means if they walk into a fiddle ward, it will atleast make them sweat.
inland marsh
fiddle wards are maybe the funniest passive ever
spice glen
plus, as a general passive, it does somewhat teach you about using the sight lines of the map.
inland marsh
minimal mechanical advantage but you put your opponents in silent hill
mighty crow
Fiddles wards triggering the new vision spots is also very funny
spice glen
like I'll say this much, fiddle is real damn fun, when you play it like you're the real monster and using the fog to your advantage.
Does mean you have to shove your face into walls and get -very- particular about your movement too, but as a jungler that's a good thing.
Hard to prepare for a jungle gank when the jungler is being snake from metal gear.
but yeah, aim for fun and champion mastery.
If you're gonna run lilia, fiddle and...think you mentioned Warwick, you should be fine.
inland marsh
lillia, fiddle, warwick, malphite, voli and j4 are the ones im interested in at the moment
spice glen
Yeah those are all fine.
Just think of it like this.
You get confident on these champs.
You can then go "I know how to play these good/bad match up's." because of champion mastery, versus counter picking.
Be afraid of the person who has learned one champion a million times versus the entire champion roster.
mighty crow
Yah, I just like... Playing everyone basically lmao
inland marsh
...wow im glad to be free of support jail
my old friend group basically forced me to play support
mighty crow
Wtf
inland marsh
they were all way better at the game than me
mighty crow
That sucks, I'm glad you're not having to play stuff you don't enjoy yeah
inland marsh
i did like a lot of supports but its nice to have options open
...idk what im gonna do if i get autofilled into a lane
if its toplane i can just play malphite
mighty crow
You can also Warwick and Voli top
J4 too in a pinch
You said you have a support pool, so mid and bot are your main problem for autofill
But also if you're queueing jungle/support... You're like never going to get autofilled lmao
Jungle and support are almost always the priority roles
spice glen
yeah you'll always be those roles.
though depending on the server, you might get put into adc randomly.
inland marsh
if its adc ill play kogmaw and probably die a lot
my support pool is uhhh rakan and nautilus basically
no clue what ill do if i get filled mid somehow but like
that isnt gonna happen
rustic kite
I remember sometimes matchmaking is a little drunk when it comes to autofill but it's rare
And if pregame chat wasn't removed (IDK if it still exists or not) you can just go "who wants mid?" in pregame and you'll get takers
inland marsh
oh right, ive got a friend intetested in learning toplane and im trying to teach her how to CS well but i dont entirely know how to do that myself
there are some concepts that im aware of such as ensuring that the minion wave will push up or down depending on what you want but i dont know how to make that happen
also, what is "priority"
(in the sense of like "toplane has priority right now")
rustic kite
Lane priority? It's complicated but basically means that if you decide to push you get to roam first without losing CS
inland marsh
ahh
rustic kite
It's not just push power b/c some champs have waveclear but will take a lot of poke if they commit to pushing and then can't roam safely
mighty crow
Yeah, priority is like, the entire concept of who gets to help their team more basically, but a ton of factors go into it.
inland marsh
gotcha
mighty crow
The classic example is that if the opponent has pushed the wave to your tower, if you both leave, you lose a whole wave of gold/exp
And so they have priority
It is possible for you to leave, but there has to be a HUGE event happening for it to be worth it.
inland marsh
i see!
say you just got a solo kill on your opponent, how can you tell what direction the wave is going to push if you leave, and when do you want it to push towards your opponent vs towards you?
mighty crow
So the general idea is that if waves are equal, whichever side of the lane the wave is closest to, it will push the other way
If you have more minions than the enemy, it will tend to push for you obz.
inland marsh
id imagine you want it to push towards your opponent when itll make them lose a lot of CS?
mighty crow
Yeah.
The thing about it pushing toward you is it kills your minions
So if the opponent isn't in lane at the time, and you don't also want to leave lane
You often want it to push toward you because near your tower is safer and it makes your minions die faster
inland marsh
oh and THATS what freezing is for
mighty crow
Yeah.
inland marsh
i see!
mighty crow
The general rule for freezing is 3 caster minions
If the enemy has 3 caster minions more than you do, you can freeze
rustic kite
Though there's also unstable freezes where it'll slowly push out and even if this isn't ideal compared to a hard freeze you can still take advantage
mighty crow
Yep!
3 is the rule for indefinite freezes
The easy way to make a wave push into you is to intercept the wave before it reaches your minions and bunch it up
And then let the waves crash
That's set up a slow push into you
inland marsh
im trying to teach my friend the basics of toplane by 1v1ing her in the practice tool, who'd be a good champ for me to play to teach her how to CS? she plays gwen
mighty crow
Ooof, gwen is rough.
Uhm, at least to start, just don't worry about how they're actually killing minions IMO
Maybe something like Sion?
Sion has really clear threat ranges and patterns.
rain girder
i would just go with kindred and/or khazix bc i remember liking them but those a...
If you want to know about kha'zix stuff, I'm more than happy to provide info
inland marsh
Maybe something like Sion?
good idea!
inland marsh
Uhm, at least to start, just don't worry about how they're actually killing mini...
how does gwen kill minions actually
seems difficult to keep stacks up and still last hit
oh wait doesnt q execute minions
rain girder
Her passive allows for just that little bit of extra damage to help last hit
she also builds nashors tooth
Which just adds AP scaling to auto attacks
mighty crow
Yeah, although last-hits is MOSTLY a thing you worry about pre your first item
But Gwen does add AP ratio to her autos, which means she's not as bad at autoing as most mage-types
inland marsh
normally my advice would just be to not autoattack much and wait for the minions to be low enough that you can kill them with one auto but that feels like bad advice for gwen specifically
mighty crow
No, that's still true.
inland marsh
oh ok
mighty crow
Gwen takes a while for her stacks to fall off
You can usually maintain them just last hitting tbh
rain girder
You last hit until your opponent either forces a trade or you see a chance for a favorable trade yourself
mighty crow
Sometimes you need to do an extra auto
Here and there
But mostly it's just, last hit as per normal
The main things with gwen last hitting are that her E gives her a HUGE auto range and a dash, so you can safely last hit vs a lot of melee people from outside their auto range
And her Q ofc is a decent AoE clear
inland marsh
one of the big things she needs to work on is the difference between trades and all-ins
mighty crow
Both open you up to enemy getting to trade into you
But I'd just focus on last hitting as a skill before you talk about trading
It's easier once you know how to last hit to start to figure out trading and how using abilities opens you up
inland marsh
one of the big things she needs to work on is the difference between trades and ...
which is mainly a mindset thing thatll come with time and experience
yeah
mighty crow
Than it is to try to figure that out AND last hits
IMO
Gwen is another one WASD movement might be helpful for as a new player, although in general I'll note WASD movement is definitely overall weaker than mouse movement
inland marsh
yeah
mighty crow
And it'll be hard to transition from WASD to mouse later probably
(If that's a thing you care about)
Honestly there's so much to learn before WASD movement would start holding anyone back though...
inland marsh
fair!
mighty crow
Unless you want to get really good at the game, it's not the kind of thing I'd worry about directly.
inland marsh
yeah
...knowing how my friend plays video games, are there any champs that are ignorant enough to be able to kinda just go all in whenever they feel like it?
inland marsh
followup question: are there any champions who can consistently win lane really easily and then use that early advantage to bully the opponent out of the game
my friend plays REALLY aggressively and enjoys doing so, so i want to find her someone who rewards you for doing that
rain girder
Riven and Renekton are fun lane bully types
inland marsh
good calls
rain girder
Riven in particular rewards quick execution
She can do straight up animation cancels which feels realy good
inland marsh
She can do straight up animation cancels which feels realy good
huh
how do those work
rain girder
Basically she can interrupt her own ability animations by clicking on the ground
and using that time you can cast another one
And in some cases you can just straight up cast other abilities while you're using your E
E - W for quick stun, E-Q for a boost of range
E-R so that your R animation plays during E and you have very little downtime
inland marsh
oh my friend will love this
ok i think riven is basically the perfect champion for her
lane bully with fighting game gatlings
rain girder
I hate how fun this demacia rising minigame is
inland marsh
are there any other notable lane bullies?
rain girder
I was hoping the Demacia season would be good, but this is special
Renekton is similar to Riven in general execution, but favors staying in and healing through the fight
Tryndamere is right click supreme
If your friend can stomach some harassment, Quinn is a fun top lane champion
People get REAL butt-hurt about ranged top laners
inland marsh
yeah seriously
woeful shuttle
followup question: are there any champions who can consistently win lane really ...
Renekton
woeful shuttle
People get REAL butt-hurt about ranged top laners
imo ranged toplaners that aren't urgot have a tendency to compromise team composition if you don't have a tanky sup or jg
rain girder
People forget that the moment you have your steelcaps it's fine
and just get salty because they get poked in bad trades
woeful shuttle
the issue w/ riven is that she's in permanent numbers jail until riot reworks her
I actually wouldn't describe her as a lane bully
she doesn't win a lot of early fights whereas the renekton all in is something you know is coming
oh nevermind riven's at 54% winrate right now do whatever
inland marsh
amazing
inland marsh
Renekton is similar to Riven in general execution, but favors staying in and hea...
oh so renekton gets to just keep punching your opponent for extended periods of time and healing thru their damage?
woeful shuttle
no
rain girder
Me: "Today I will grind out some ranked games"
"oh hey the demacia rising thing is out"
"I ran out of silver fast"
"guess I gotta play games to get my silver back"
Renekton builds up a resource called fury that empowers his abilities
and one of those empowered abilities heals you a bunch
when it hits
woeful shuttle
renekton has a very strong burst combo but once you've shot your shot you don't necessarily want to stay in
inland marsh
i see
woeful shuttle
and if you're burning fury for heals it's not doing damage
rain girder
So he wants to be in the fight, can take some hits on the way in, and then gets out
well, burning fury for Q makes it deal more damage and heal you
woeful shuttle
yeah but you could have had E and W empowered instead
it's an opportunity cost thing
woeful shuttle
it also doubles the stun time
E recast also applies armor shred and does twice as much damage if you have fury
I guess counterargument for a lane bully is malphite
rain girder
the one thing that really messes people up is trying to use Q to heal off of minions when it's just not worth it lol
woeful shuttle
I mean it's free is the thing
inland marsh
I guess counterargument for a lane bully is malphite
i think i made her hate malphite
which is entirely reasonable
woeful shuttle
if you don't want to tangle w/ your lane opponent healing off of minions can get you an edge
playing against malphite turbo sucks and I hate it
inland marsh
that champion is VILE
rain girder
malphite is pretty ass
woeful shuttle
malphite is one of the best toplaners in the game rn iirc
it's not as bad as quinn or vayne but it's just dull ass gameplay
rain girder
yep
woeful shuttle
but you also win a lot of games and in particular dumpster ranged tops so /shrug
rain girder
also the jungle changes mean you get so much less help as readily as you used to, so you're just fuckin STUCK there with this big dumb rock
inland marsh
i personally find malphite fun to play
rain girder
oh I love playing him yeah
woeful shuttle
if you play malphite quinn or vayne top I hate you because I onetrick urgot
rustic kite
Do people still play Vlad top?
rain girder
ye
inland marsh
malphite is way too funny is the thing
woeful shuttle
iirc it's not even a bad matchup for urgot it's just boring
inland marsh
vayne is actually the devil however
% max health true damage 3 hit passive is disgusting
woeful shuttle
the thing is most of the time if someone runs vayne top they'll lose lategame because their team comp is down a bruiser or tank so really you just need to not lose
but that doesn't make laning any better
rain girder
yeah vayne does just kinda die later
adc moment
then again they did give her an item made for her
inland marsh
oh no
rain girder
nasus gets a lot better the lower rank ytou are
woeful shuttle
yeah
rain girder
because people just don't know how to deal with him
woeful shuttle
it's also a coordination thing because if nasus is permasplitting you need to be able to stop him from just smashing in lanes
inland marsh
nasus games just feel awful
woeful shuttle
and that is not always within the reach of random teams
I don't mind playing against nasus but urgot is typically a high agency matchup into nasus
mighty crow
Nasus got better with the new season
He was really bad not very long ago
Current meta of just sitting in lanes favors him a lot
rain girder
the increased power of splitting really vibes with him yeah
rustic kite
Because of quests?
woeful shuttle
yeah he wants to sit in lane and split forever
fun fact nasus ult and his E do different amounts of damage
his ult is a really painful %maxHP, his E is flat
rain girder
well also the plates not fallign off and being on all towers, the crystalline overgrowth, the lower jungle gank frequency
rustic kite
It feels like every other year pro play reinvents laneswaps and Riot is like "hey, stop that" with heavy-handed changes
rain girder
yeah, quests are probably the least intrusive way they've done it so far?
"stop fucking lane swapping" - Riot Games
inland marsh
yeah they reward you for not doing it instead of punishing you for doing it
inland marsh
yeah they reward you for not doing it instead of punishing you for doing it
i like it
rustic kite
I remember the year when it was like "yeah let's just give top and mid towers a pile of extra armor". IDK, that was at least simple and straightforward
rain girder
The only thing I don't really like about it tbh
Is that the solo lanes are just kinda fucked if they get put into bad matchups
Those were the least problematic lanes to swap
rustic kite
Oh right you can't do the mid/top swap anymore
inland marsh
its so fucked up that you dont start out with smite or flash unlocked as a new player
rain girder
you should never unlock flash
jungling is something they don't want you to do until you have more experience lol
I'm a flash hater, I think there's a version of the game that can exist without it
Boring ahh bailout spell
this message brought to you by assassin gang
mighty crow
You can mid/top swap in champ select still
rain girder
this is true
mighty crow
But yeah once the game starts you're locked in
inland marsh
~~you should never unlock flash~~
there should not ever be a situation where you dont have flash unlocked if someone else does
imo
woeful shuttle
lane swaps are gameplay-derived optima which is why they keep coming back
pearl flume
rain girder
the new changes are pretty nice for new players tbh, I think
first non-promo game of the new season
See that Ryze? I built that.
spoon fed him the kills so he'd grow big and strong
ALSO, unrelated, Necrit pointed something out that I didn't catch at first
I saw the symbol of a ward in the new cinematic, and was like "oh that's kinda cool, nice reference"
but it actually makes perfect sense that that's a demacian symbol
of course they're the ones with special totems to ward off the darkness
inland marsh
how long has fiddlesticks been in demacia btw
its been like years irl iirc
are they gonna... do anything with that
rain girder
Wherever there is fear, he will be there, and the populace of Demacia is still very fearful of mages
Demons are attracted to the place, just how it be
inland marsh
also were the odd and fucked up deer in the most recent cinematic a nocturne thing or
rain girder
I seem to recall there being a really fucked up forest in Demacia that had strange monsters in it?
But the area looks like high sivlermere, which is close to fossbarrow, which is where nocturne got his strongest hold in the area, so they could be
inland marsh
neat
rain girder
god I'm excited to see more of Demacia
I'm so happy with the direction they took it in the big lore rewrite
It went from the human kingdom in Warcraft with the serial numbers filed off to a land with great history, a flawed sense of justice, and a greatly corrupt hierarchy. The mage rebellion was seriously one of the dopest things they've done, and I wish I enjoyed playing Sylas more than I do because he's genuinely one of my favorite characters
Also give us Cithria as a champion you COWARDS
lyric viper
man
inland marsh
true
stray mason
Cithria?
woeful shuttle
first game getting back in the saddle and guys
guys
I wasn't playing support
why
mighty crow
LMAO
Using the new objective bushes well and actually buying pinkwards, yeah.
The enemy team never bought a single pink ward lmao
rustic kite
That's a lot of pinks for non-support
woeful shuttle
That's a lot of pinks for non-support
I buy controls compulsively
rustic kite
I don't blame you for it, but I think it's notable
mighty crow
Yeah, that's a lot even for pro play I think
It's good, especially if the rest of your team isn't buying them.
rain girder
very good game on the buggy boi
silver heath
no but he has been before
inland marsh
fair
mighty crow
He has been item-locked to hexplate for a while is the thing
Since he REALLY wants the ult-haste
And it's kinda the only first-item ult haste you can do
I've been experimenting with building Zeke's second on Malignance and Hexplate users
But I would be surprised if Nocturne wants to
A lot of the more tank-shaped users like Swain, Olaf, and Fiddles I've been having success on it
woeful shuttle
I still wish urgot had interesting itemization
mighty crow
I feel like his itemization is a bit interesting?
woeful shuttle
there is one viable build you build it into literally everything with one tech option at most
mighty crow
Hullbreaker is kind of neat
woeful shuttle
and its been BC sterak for like two years now
mighty crow
Not a lot of people build it as a primary item
woeful shuttle
hullbreaker is bad
mighty crow
Oh huh, I know it was meta on him not very long ago.
woeful shuttle
its an onhit now so you need to toggle auto it
mighty crow
I'm looking at the winrate of it 2nd and it's within half a percent of Steraks mostly
woeful shuttle
BC Steraks is significantly easier to use
mighty crow
As long as you get Steraks third
mighty crow
Yeah, BC -> Steraks -> Item vs BC -> HB -> Steraks is about a half of a percent difference
Some of the BC -> Steraks -> Item are lower, the most optimal items are like almost a percent winrate higher
It does look like you REALLY should get bloodmail in the first 4 items, so you are kinda 3/4 item locked though
woeful shuttle
I mean I guess its ballpark okay but idk having to manage the toggle is iffy
mighty crow
And nothing besides Hullbreaker is close to as good as Steraks 2nd, at least based on the data I'm looking at
woeful shuttle
yup
mighty crow
The way that Urgot works I don't see how you could ever get away from being BC locked, but I'm kinda surprised by how hardlocked to Steraks Urgot is
inland marsh
And it's kinda the only first-item ult haste you can do
afaik he goes stridebreaker first
and then boots, and THEN hexplate
inland marsh
is permaroam sett support a real thing or was the guy i ran into last night just inting
mighty crow
I do not believe that is real, no
inland marsh
amazing
oh sorry he wasnt just permaroaming
he was specifically going toplane and stealing the nasus's farm
i think he got autofilled support and went "ok i dont care"
mighty crow
I mean
Even a high roaming Sett support strategy WAS a real thing
That would still be trolling
inland marsh
yeah
i was just curious if he was doing something real, badly or if he was just inting
mighty crow
Absolutely just being a troll
inland marsh
i was in vc with my friend who was playing yunara in botlane, the sett singlehandedly lost the game for us by:
- getting the enemy cait/renata super fed
- causing me to hyperfocus on Doing Something About Botlane and making everything super easy for the enemy ivern
my friend actually played out of her mind, considering
she managed to only die once the whole game iirc, when previously she'd been super prone to overextending
woeful shuttle
is permaroam sett support a real thing or was the guy i ran into last night just...
sett support was a thing, going top and stealing farm is inting
spice glen
okay the mayhem additions are apparently whack (in the good way)
woeful shuttle
oof ouch owie
first game back in ranked and I did not do very well
but I remembered the anti-tilt mantras and pulled it back through good teamplay and peeling for my carries
woeful shuttle
still did good vision though
rain girder
no I got the one that gave me free starred champs and a thief's glove
let me complete a vayne and get garen starred up early
mighty crow
No
lyric viper
Urgot gaming
mighty crow
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO Esports spoiler: ||LOS RATONES FIRST WIN||
rain girder
I need to play more Elise
mighty crow
She's pretty good both jungle and support ATM
rain girder
I love being able to dive like crazy
I did rage a bit at our bot lane
nearing the end of the game they were playing like such babies
like yeah any mistake could cost us the game, that's true
but when varus and katarina are dead and we're all up
we should go take the fuckin elder y'know
rain girder
trying really hard to get the last 3 cities in Demacia Rising
rain girder
oh how the mighty have fallen
rustic osprey
rustic kite
Pretty cool
stray mason
Is it the same VA?
spice glen
that's a great question
inland marsh
wdym
mighty crow
?
mighty crow
Dude just say pro spoilers and then say what it is in spoiler text or something
No one even knew what the topic was, and some of us want to watch the games later
spice glen
oh I Thought this was about the shyvana balancing situation.
rain girder
maybe there's something to this shyvana build
mighty crow
Tha tlooks pretty meta for Shyv right now
Kraken -> D&D, D&D -> Shojin, and D&D -> Hexplate I think are all pretty close in winrate as openers for shyv atm IIRC
rain girder
yeah
I'm not a huge fan of on hit
I prefer hp bruiser
sundered into shojin etc
titanic hydra
but I do see why people like this build
mighty crow
Maybe try the D&D -> Shojin or Hexplate variations then?
That's still quite tanky and similar winrate
As the kraken opener
rain girder
I don't wanna be building dusk most times tbh
mighty crow
But yeah, Shyv just has very high... Effective HP basically
I think it's kinda a mandatory item on her tbh
She just has so many on-hit scaling effects
It's maybe her ONLY mandatory item atm
rain girder
I just find you need some real bulk early on or else she feels really squishy
and while dusk has SOME health
mighty crow
I mean, D&D is 350 hp
rain girder
just feels like I can't fight people 1v1 without getting blown up
sundered gets me 400 + the heal
mighty crow
Yeah but the DPS on it is wayyyy lower. Shrug
rain girder
DPS doesn't really feel like it's where I'm struggling honestly
I build kraken and it kinda just feels like a less good viego
Though, to be fair
I haven't built dusk first ever
mighty crow
Mmm. I mean to me she plays as a like, Garen Bush Jumpscare champ who wants to play around vision control early
And then scales into a midgame nasty bruiser/diver
mighty crow
I just think the 50 hp flat plus the heal is usually not going to be as much defence as killing them faster so they don't kill you as much
Basically
Plus she has CRAZY sheen synergy
mighty crow
Well, maybe try D&D into Hexplate or Shojin and see how it feels then
rain girder
yeah, maybe I'll like it
mighty crow
It's a lot of hp on your first 2 items
TBH
The shift from D&D going from 250 hp on release to 350 but less AP
Was really good for Shyv
rain girder
true yeah
mighty crow
You might be thinking of the 250 hp version in your like, instincts
If you haven't built it much since the change
rain girder
I wouldn't go so far as to say D&D is BAD on shyv, but idk, it just doesn't really gel instinctually with what I want out of shyvana's like
vibe
but I'll give it a go
I'm open to being wrong
mighty crow
I guess, what are you looking for from playing Shyv?
To me she's mostly similar to Volibear, but higher damage for less CC/healing
rain girder
dragon jump in, fight until either they die or I die, but ideally to just like
STAY fighting
I wanna be brawling often, hit em with lifesteal/heals
and just general durability
Not trying to oneshot anyone
I have been swayed towards E max
mighty crow
Oh. Well that would make D&D a lot worse too
I think she's pretty firmly better with Q max
If for no other reason it's a way faster clear for the most part
Esp. because I think she wants to be doing stuff like early dragons, which Q-max is wayyyy better dps for
mighty crow
Quick note I was wrong, e Max is fine apparently
rain girder
The slow increase per rank is kinda big
