Why aren't you playing? old version

[soft needle]

Actually not sure what you mean by 'combat progression' by the way.

[ivory ore]

Real

[charred badger]

Level ups, buying gear

The dark stuff

[ivory ore]

Meta progression (aka some gear/stat/whatever changes that persist between rounds) sounds like a bad idea tbh

[soft needle]

It might be interesting for an AI to have a grudge modifier - but the thing about it is that AIs will behave based on the nearest player to them. So innocent lower level players could get caught in the crossfire without other adjustment.

[soft needle]

Unless it's a separate mode.

Games like Tarkov exist.

[ivory ore]

Hmmm, maybe

I don't have an opinion on tarkov but adding a whole extraction shooter mode to the game sounds like a lot of work

[soft needle]

Would probably be an objective-based mode where the objective is not always the same - probably. Again, subject for another dedicated suggestion thread.

[charred badger]

It could detect the lowest rank, but Id leave the solvable problems like this to the devs if they are interested

[soft needle]

Your view on that is to be respected.

[charred badger]

Side comment: I think royale can have much stronger gameplay engagement, now that there is a social hub.

• Before
  Royale - mid engagement✅

• Then there was
  World - idle engagment
  Royale - regular engagement
  This can work, but pacing wise, it won't completely compliment eachother

• possibly
  World - idle engagement
  Royale - regular+ engagement ✅

As sar was always balancing on being chill, but also arcadey.
Now that there is a chill mode in the game, the combat can be unrestrained

the revive mechanic in the sar world update was a good step in this direction!

Sorry for the ping btw ^^;

[ivory ore]

So you're saying the royale mode should get more intense somehow?

or have like more things to do during the royales

[charred badger]

This

There are many more ways to make a game more engaging

[stuck crystal]

What if there were more quests related to the Royale like Opreys quest line?

It would get more people in the matches to do the quest. Two birds with one stone, more engaging quests and fuller games

[charred badger]

🪨
That too, especially if there could be npc events in royale

[static nimbus]

I'd say it's heading in the right direction but taking bad execution. I've shared these reasons once and i wouldn't mind sharing it again:

1. SAW was unimmersing. At best it's animal crossing, at worst it's visual novel with quest and not a good one at that, all when i expected small non "show, not tell" interactables.
   -# Funnily enough, i've been playing some hyper immersive games (one literally being immersive sim) which made this criticism hits harder for me

2. Heavier internet load now
   Nowadays when i play, sometimes i get put in an AS match with 200 ping...even though i'm from AS and my usual ping SHOULD be 50, which is odd and occassionally unfair
   -# Idk if this is really just SAR or everywhere, but i'm just gonna assume it's SAR bcs of the update lol

3. Loss of "identity" ?
   From what i can tell, SAR is a cute animal game with surprisingly fun gunplay. So while SAW doesn't need to be deleted, i wished they do more with the actual shooting game modes. Not just BR, but more "other game modes" other than SvR and Bwoking. I don't know, deathmatch or rush royale ?
   -# There's also the matter of BR's environmental storytelling, which left a bitter taste to the now explicit and dialogue heavy storytelling

Wow i yapped a lot, sorry lol

I don't quit, but i'm noticeably playing less

[drifting fox]

Tbh I feel like they tried too hard to do "full story" with SAW and overworked themselves when they could've made small, perfect slices

Like I don't think anyone would've minded if they added one story after another instead of releasing the whole thing in one go

I like that it's explicit (as a wiki editor anyway)

I just think they ran out of time to execute well because they bit off more than they could chew

[static nimbus]

A balance of explicit and implicit story telling would do well

I mean i've been taking screenshots of when dialogues mentions another character/location in hopes of revealing something implicitly

The question now is just if it actually does or Pixile never even planned for it

Reading trivia section of wiki is always enjoyable

And speculative part of the lore just adds more flavor and mystery to it too

[charred badger]

I'm fine with saw and it's identity, I always expected a yappiness to it, especially when the game is full of yappers!! Especially with it's animated series

But what takes away the immersion is how static the characters can be overtime, they quest you, you don't even get to kill them in battle, they don't invite you anywhere or anything,

[static nimbus]

yeah ig if i see SAW as just SAW (separate from SAR), it's fine

But yeah your second paragraph makes VALID points, just quest and done and quest and done, sure they give medal and accessories, but is it really worth it that way ?

Most of it works like tutorials in how you use items, like basic how to use, not even tactics of it

[drifting fox]

the problem isn't that there are quests, it's that the quests just aren't simply not more fun than milestones

tbh... they need to rework all the quests and detach them from just being milestones

but its not that possible

things like being scamper is good

instead of thinking about "how can we design 200 quests for all the characters" like... we just want 1 good quest

[soft needle]

Main issue with the quests is scale.

Breaking large things down into smaller chunks makes them more enjoyable, overall. It also is an excuse to add more quest levels.

Example: Get all collectibles could be further split down to 'get one legendary collectable, Get three legendary collectibles, get five, and so on.

This also makes adding collectibles less of a bad thing for those quests.

[charred badger]

Campaign! Good solo experience, that can hook the player in for better multiplayer, to make a more lasting fanbase

[drifting fox]

everyone was expecting a campaign with SAW tbh

this is just more milestones

but yeah

its not easy

but that was what people wanted

at this point

just give us 1 (one) microcampaign as a proof of concept

don't need to make a whole system of 3000 campaigns

literally like the tutorial sequence, make everyone invisible and fight a bot or two with special effects

[charred badger]

It always looked like to me they were trying to pull in animal crossing/ webfishing people, so I didn't really expect a campaign

[ivory ore]

Oh lmao I completely forgot that was a thing

Literally proof of concept for solo missions

(if I am now remembering it correctly and it was just a handful of enemies on a way smaller space)

[static nimbus]

Oh yeah right true didn't realize they're practically milestones with extra steps 😭

The micro-campaign idea sounds fun

Just any quest that isn't "okay now fish/bughunt but more" would suffice

[wispy pumice]

For those who aren't playing, but would like to play, provided there's enough improvements to the game, how do you feel about [completely revamping SvR?](#1467624482473640087 message)

I thought of this with the help of the community, so I hope it serves as one of many great threads that have all opened up as a result of this megathread.

[vale mason]

have the lagging aspect improved for people after today's update, especially those that reported it? nintendo switch bugs/lagging also

[static nimbus]

My pc's getting fixed
-# i mean technically true that's why i can't play SAR rn lol
Okok jokes aside, you guys ever felt that SAR leans too heavily on the cutesy side ? Like i mean ofc it's understandable but it's also a shooter, so i was hoping there's more "tacticool" aspect to it, the night vision goggles is already a good one, i just wish they have more outfits that leans to that aspect than being overtly super duper cute

[lone rover]

I'm always up for more outfits and cosmetics of any sort, but to be fair the cuteness IS integral both from a meta standpoint and in-universe. Just feels worth mentioning.

[wispy pumice]

i've stopped paying attention to the quests to the point of not even caring about checking in a quest,. And when I do remember to, then it's time-gated, so can't do the next part anyway even though it's been literally 2 weeks lol

and then another 2 weeks go by and I'm like, well okay, forgot to check my active quests list

and TBH I don't know why

[static nimbus]

Yeah it's true that's what i wanted to say but didn't find the right word,
but i also want more tacticool stuff 😭
Like a ration of 75% cute - 25% cool

Rn it's like 95%-5% and that even counts the SAW vs Rebellion pass 😭😭😭

[static nimbus]

True the quests needing you to wait a day is a clear-as-day attempt to "get as much daily player"

They aren't even playing, they just do quests and dip

It helps the statistics but not the experience

[lone rover]

I would love more tacticool stuff, I know my partner would really like more of that stuff, and I do like to use it time to time!

[civic sorrel]

Id say why people don't play, here favoritism is high as hell

And i can tell

Why trying to go with others if You end up ignored

[static nimbus]

Ong we're making Elite Squad-looking Special agents in SAR 🔥🔥🔥

[stuck crystal]

This exactly

[gusty apex]

It felt empty when I played it during early days for some reason, also time gated stuff put me off not to mention I had to be forced to play a battle royale (Ik that’s name of game but royales are terrible without friends imo.)
Plus the quests get less of actual quests and moreso just fetch quests, the WORST possible type you could’ve made.

No fixes to SvR, including but not limited to; unbalanced maps that favours certain sides if not bots, bot behaviour and all steam rolling same path. Also SvR feels left behind, no updates, no new map, nothing.
This is biggest issue since I only really played this now and again for SvR…

I probably have myself to blame but ig the update felt a lil overhyped, granted I enjoy idea of a social hub but sadly I’m also anti-social and game puts me in lobbies with ZERO people (that aren’t afking)

Bare minimum communication from devs; admittedly I’m not upset with them since this seems industry standard.

No / anti customisation or mod support. I’ve wanted nothing more than to experiment with potential ideas, heck I’d LOVE to have a dev tool so I could try to make my own “payload” game mode I had suggest years ago now, or even a way to better test custom cosmetics ingame, without risk of being told off if I do post pics; since yknow terms of service.
Rest in peace my “Professional Mercenary Skin Collection”, you were doomed from start for trying to have a skin for EVERY weapon; even then none of my cosmetic suggestions would ever make it, one got in technically but coincidence… Wanted a proper community battle pass where people did it to a theme like tf2’s crates but oh well.

Toxic positivity; mostly community issue but also encouraged, since as mentioned to be critical in a slight wrong way damns you. Granted I’ve not had anything major here thankfully but there is a massive thing where if you are not “part of the group”, you’re excluded from chats and anything, opinion ignored, etc. or ig favouritism. A shame I have no motivation to draw otherwise I’d probably have peeps interested in talking to me; since that’s a common trope (not specifically just here but anywhere.)
It was worse in past but, just because it was worse then doesn’t mean it’s good to still have it be a common problem people bring up.

If you ask me aswell, I just in general feel HEAVILY excluded; by the devs and community itself so it’s like, why should I bother? I do try and want to chat here but then it’s just, not welcoming, especially if you’re someone who wanted to see the game thrive and even try to support it more than just buying skins.
Also ik it’s in their roadmaps but like, can we have ACTUAL events in social hub? And also last longer than a few minutes, those fishing frenzies are so short and even then just fishing at them is miserable, not even faster just… same pace but respawn slightly faster.

[vale mason]

I don't care about outfits, but I think that the gameplay lacks tactical aspect. Hope for some really good stuff this Spring to bring me back.

[static nimbus]

Oh i wanted to say this but i was afraid i'm gonna get comments like "We got sweats already this game is already tactical as it is", thanks for saying it for me xd

[vale mason]

I think the climate of the discussions here changed for the better. You could met such comments 3 years ago, from some people.

it's more varied and less echo chambery. do not be afraid to state your opinions. this thread is also an encouragement

If people stay silent, then that's a problem. More funily if 90% stay silent because they are(or were) harassed by 10% of vocal minority, and they start to think that they are minority.

[gusty apex]

The sweats are a good reason I don’t play royale.
The lack of tactical stuff means I have far less options to deal with them. 🥀

[vale mason]

a smoke bomb or some hedhehog ball could make escape more easy

but tbh, players getting better in any old game is something one has to get used to

SAR isn't in toddler phase anymore. that is unfortunate, as the times when everyone started out and could take it easy are gone

[gusty apex]

“Just just use a banana peel!”
Gets shot anyway or jumps over cause it takes awhile to land.

Smoke bomb would unironically be good, bonus points if it muffled the sound of those in it.

[vale mason]

some people brought up favoritism I see... hmm

[gusty apex]

I’m surprised they’ve not allowed multiple throwable yet tbh.

But that’s for different topic ig; just one of those things where since pushed out and did other stuff those who stayed got way better and you can’t really compete.

[vale mason]

I'm not sure how this favouritism works. Not sure if im feeling excluded or included tbh.

[gusty apex]

It was very bad in past.
Can still see it nowadays but like I said, just cause it’s not as bad but people still bring it up doesn’t make it any less of an issue.

[vale mason]

maybe they have so bad experiences in the past that it's in their head now? like Ravtexis didn't speak up because thought something bad would happen

[gusty apex]

Can be hit or miss, but if someone more popular shows up, you getting dropped. Or that’s how it’ll be.

[vale mason]

TBH I'm one month or two here, after a huge few years break, and I see a big difference. I wasn't being bitten

[vale mason]

what channels do you mean? or in game?

[gusty apex]

I’ve complained about it in past, kinda.
Idk how full I went into it. But I just chose not to engage most cases.

[gusty apex]

Anywhere.

[vale mason]

tbh I do not consider myself popular, but I don't feel excluded here. sometimes i make suggestions that are left in silence. I'm fine with that. It's complicated as people are all different. I also think that artists thrive more here.

There are communities with differences and I'm not complaining.

[static nimbus]

I thought sweats means they play so tactically good it's hard to outsmart them 😭

[vale mason]

Also, I have experiences with discords i was in that some people that say that they are excluded, do not make the effort or think that world resolves around them and people should gather to everything they say. Not saying that it's the case in your case.

(even cases of dramatic quits "nobody cares about me", despite only posting about very niche thing and expecting people to relate)

[static nimbus]

This forum actually helped me speak up and be vocal about me suggesting stuffs tbh, i usually just don't because

1. The game was still good then (or atleast better than what it is now)
2. I'm too scared to argue incase they bring up better points and i just keep getting kicked down

For example, people have been saying a subtle ranked mode where you're grouped with people you're ranked, at first it sounded like it's gonna bring toxic players in. But now i can confidently say "actually, it helps new players meet new players, and not get beaten by top players thinking they're fighting top players too", and that actually toxicity has nothing to do with ranked; no matter what game mode you're in, or what mindset you're playing with, you'll be bound to meet some toxic players here and there

[vale mason]

well, you gotta step up your game, not be scared. see, look at pathforger. that guy can talk and talk, even if people try to kick down his suggestion(and sometimes they maybe even do with success). Even if somebody do kick down your suggestion, so what? Are you not human to make mistakes?

[static nimbus]

Oh yeah true, even if i get labelled as, idk, "competitive player", so what ? I'm just voicing my opinions, just as they have the rights to voice their own opinions

Alright man, i'll try, no more appeal to majority, if i have an opinion, i'll voice it, and if people make good points against mine, that's okay

[gusty apex]

I personally view “sweats” as just someone who takes game far too serious.
Like fun? Naw, gotta win and slam dunk everyone, no fun gimmicks or silly challenges sorta deal.

But I use sweats as similar term for many other games too.

[vale mason]

I won't talk about ranked, because already 2 threads were locked because of that(not because of me), so my sincere request- please do not bring it here, there are a few that weren't locked so more expanded discussion on those can be taken there.

[static nimbus]

Ohhh, sometimes i feel like i'm a "sweat" for playing "super tactically", even thought it's more like my adrenaline and endorphine kicking in to survive in-game lol, but not the toxic kind since, whether i win or lose to my opponent, i'll just say "GGs !" and go on with my day

[static nimbus]

Fair fair, i'm just bringing an example. I'll shut about that right about now

[drifting fox]

Yeah I think at this point hiding what's in the next update is more harmful than helpful for this game, there's hyping things up and then there's hyping things up then realizing people didn't like it
That's my biggest peeve about communication, imo the devs can afford to recognize criticism and take it on stride rather than getting defensive, then talk about what they can do about it or suggest some ideas from what they know as devs

[vale mason]

yep, we know it's "focus on core modes" from roadmap, but not much more than that

I will dissapear for another couple years if that doesnt land

[drifting fox]

like hiding things away from the community won't make the community happier

[vale mason]

to be fair, there ARE some tangible things in the roadmap as well. like fixing queues and makind them better

[gusty apex]

I get why some stuff are hidden.
But like, c’mon…

Why must they hide it from us; even if they said it’s not final.

[soft needle]

Putting forward the products of your mind for consideration can be a daunting proposition.

It is fine to develop it to a point where you feel more confident that it can withstand initial criticism - but as a creator you will tend to have blind spots and these will only become apparent when a different pair of eyes regards your offering.

The criticisms test your concept. Points will be put forward that may point out limitations in it - and those are typically opportunities to revisit and improve upon the concept to make it stronger.

Sometimes a concept will only have limited headroom for improvement - and that may signify that the proposal is not strong enough to survive - and for as long as the premise of the limitations discovered are also valid, then one would need to return to the drawing board.

Being mistaken is an option. Some areas will be more hotly contested than others.

So if you have a suggestion to make that you suspect has good merits going for it then give it that bit of personal testing and then put it forward. If you're fortunate then it'll get fire-tested, and the parties fire-testing it will put forward helpful feedback for improving upon it.

[static nimbus]

Alright, i'll keep it in mind. Thank you for your feedback !

[tardy quartz]

Yeah, roadmaps are made with this in mind so that there's a balance. Ideas change quite a bit from the planning to implementation period, and telling people one idea is coming that turned into another or didn't pan out for one reason or another could (and likely will) lead to disappointment. Getting people too excited about something they can't interact with or engage for weeks/months in the future generally isn't a good idea too, as by the time it comes out it'll feel like old news.

I think there needs to be a bit of a shift in looking at things being worked on as being "hidden" since we're working on ideas until they're ready to be presented in its best possible state and time for people. I do understand the desire to know more of what's being worked on, that's natural for any game getting active updates, but it's not like there's any intentional, malicious deception going on.

[soft needle]

Bloopers can sometimes help the creative process be appreciated. Particularly if there is a humorous dimension to it, for the uninitiated, while the more knowledgeable viewers may appreciate the creative process independently of such. Of course, what might work well for some movies might not work well for video game development.

Of course, expectations can be a chaotic beast - and the fallout from promising a thing and not delivering is certainly a reality worth accounting for.

Another angle on the criticisms of development choices being 'hidden' is that it can seem that the community is quite left out of the loop - The cards held too close to the chest also leads to questions as to why - and that can also lead to players feeling that there is less to look forward to during content droughts as well as a lack of investment into the execution of the creative process.

That could take the form of previews with your content creators. Let them in on 'leaks', and be ready to jump in with clarifications if things don't swing in a favourable way. It should generate a more anticipatory atmosphere than at present.

It could also result in getting more early feedback that you can test internally. Things like the impact of respawn tanks, collectibles, and so on. Of course certain things like testing for console bugs would still be impossible but that's an example of a thing that is less within your control.

[tardy quartz]

Another angle on the criticisms of development choices being 'hidden' is that it can seem that the community is quite left out of the loop - The cards held too close to the chest also leads to questions as to why - and that can also lead to players feeling that there is less to look forward to during content droughts as well as a lack of investment into the execution of the creative process.

How so? The reason there's going to be more of a focus on the core modes and those listed tangible features is because of post-Super Animal World feedback, our cards aren't held that tightly here at all

[vale mason]

I think that, after SAW wasn't up to some people taste, people went balistic with clarity on devs. Personally, I'm fine with the roadmap as it is - it has some vageuness, but also some tangible things and overall pretty clear direction. As a software developer, I understand that developing is not something you can do with swiss watch precision.

But, maybe poll implementation(something like scratcher thread proposed) on some things would help smooth some things out between devs and community, build trust.

(I'm also not sure if letting people know few months before kills excitement, I would argue with that with real life examples, but I do not want to offtop from more important issues)

[vale mason]

I mean, with people dispersed everywhere and feedback being ton of information to digest, they don't even realize that roadmap is made from feedback, it's hard to manage information wise. Poll in-game would make it clear for all people that devs have more community-driven development.

[ivory ore]

Coming from the minecraft community, polls may or may not be a bad idea

People will either complain that the thing they wanted to win, didn't, or be like "why not add all three???"

Could be wrong, just sharing my surface-level observations as my 2 cents

[vale mason]

true, it would be a challenge to make polls so that it's less friction. it's a tool that can end up as double edged sword. but i think with some skill it could be fine

[soft needle]

I had the period prior to the resumption of Pixile Plays and the November trailer in mind - but you would be correct to point out that this is shaping up to be a different era from that, with more communications.

What would be nice to see are preliminary hints seeping through on the directions being considered or taken as concerns the main modes, as the current focus. Some time before the changes drop - similarly to how there were previews of the zip-and-go both when it was introduced as well as when it got buffed.

This is more important for changes that occur over the period of many months (eg. SAW), than those made over shorter periods. Yes it might blunt the surprise factor of some changes but it could serve as an opportunity to gain initial feedback earlier on.

[tardy quartz]

Minecraft is actually the reason I think polls for choosing features above others aren't a great idea, since while you can say that the winner was entirely democratic, the conversations around them become about what players could've had instead of what won. I think they actually stopped doing those for that reason too if I recall correctly?

[drifting fox]

When I proposed more community input, I didn't mean polls, I meant discussions and surveys

as well as more openness in the early stages of building about what is coming next

e.g. build a prototype and show it off

I don't get why people think the community would need to reject features outright in this

in all likelihood community will contribute ideas to how the feature can evolve

I'd think that outright rejection would be extraordinarily rare for features that really didn't make sense e.g. blender

and in all likelihood blender, if shown off early, would've morphed to an actually useful state

"polls" are not the way

it's community input not community dictation

[vale mason]

my bad, sorry for mistake

[drifting fox]

I would be completely against "Choose one from A, B, or C to build"

I would be for "We are building A, here's how it looks like now, how can we improve it?"

[soft needle]

The Minecraft example is pertinent. I will also cite the BoatyMcBoatFace debacle.

Good faith is simply not assured, and there is a (variety of) reason(s) why some people spell it demockerycy. 🤔

The best case scenario with the poll route is to ensure that one is perfectly happy with all of the outcomes coming to pass, no matter how unlikely.

Next time you're choosing what to eat, pick two options and flip a coin to decide on it. If you are unhappy with the result then you didn't ensure the choices were equally desirable.

[drifting fox]

I'm resolutely against polls

The community shouldn't tell what the devs what to do, the devs tell us what they want to do and get us involved in that process

It'd be like minecraft saying, we're going to change the oceans, we're gonna add these 5 fishes and these 2 biomes, here's some early screenshots, let us know your thoughts (initially "anything we should change")

[soft needle]

Agreed. While keeping in mind that the community retains the option to vote with their feet - so ignoring the community outright isn't the right play either.

[drifting fox]

and I think you can agree with me minecraft should actually do this 😂

[tardy quartz]

Thank you for clarifying and dispelling confusion

[vale mason]

sounds good, but does Logan need proof again of input halls in other games?

[soft needle]

"anything we should change?" should be changed to "Let us know your thoughts!"

[tardy quartz]

If there is a live service game that does input halls akin to what Meownt is saying I would like to see them still, not necessary though

[soft needle]

The player base will let you know if they see anything in what is presented that they have concerns about. That also comes down to a sufficient understanding of what is being presented (e.g. fishing mechanic). With more information players can provide better feedback.

[drifting fox]

^^^^

instead of only knowing what the community thinks after it's been completely built and released

[soft needle]

There were clues on it in the announcement and trailer for SAW. What could have helped was a fuller representation of the loop.

Again, using that as an example - not as a criticism.

(and not necessarily in those particular videos - again I refer to the zip-and-go clips - what an equivalent might look like is a clip where a superanimal discovers a fishing spot, pulls out their fishing rod, pitches in, waits for the fish to bite, captures it and moves on and away.)

[drifting fox]

e.g. "we're going to add fishing, this is how it works rn, let us know your thoughts"

[soft needle]

Yes, as example.

[drifting fox]

what was done for SAW was only
"we're going to add fishing, let us know your thoughts"

[soft needle]

Also yes.

[vale mason]

apparently, path of exile, factorio, warframe, League of legends. If somebody plays this games can confirm.

[lone rover]

I don't REMEMBER Warframe having those but I play it on-off, so they might've done it at some point but as far as I remember doesn't have it.

Would be a good idea though

[lone rover]

Also to pitch in my answer to title of this thread, I am unlikely to stop playing completely, but I've been kind of drifting off the game for a few reasons. The general battle royale issue of it eventually getting a bit stale after long enough. Being in the somewhat frustrating skill bracket above casual but below competitive. And it's a tiny thing but fashion in the game is a bit thing for me, and my favourite cosmetic turned out to have a visual bug that made it look how it is, and I preferred the bugged version, which isn't that important but adds onto the pile of little reasons.

[charred badger]

Yeh, the meta is not being updated really anymore, and despite weapon having immense depth, and challenging ops, there's not too much to look forward to

[lone rover]

Doesn't help that I've felt really stagnant skill-wise. I'm good enough that if it's all casuals and newer players I have a decent win-rate, but against anyone competitive-level I can barely do anything.

[charred badger]

That's normal with games that have real time position, you have to research strats from others or formulate them

It's really difficult to get naturally

I have a slight advantage because I have background in SHMUP, and it's easy to tell for me if there's a chance of getting hit - allowing me to do gambles in matches
(In short, it means I'm biased)

[lone rover]

Well, I'm pretty alright for strategy, I've just been having trouble improving my aim. Although admittedly I think the cosmetic thing, small as it was, may have been what finally got me more distant from the game.

[vale mason]

it's funny how the small things matter sometimes. some people left(allegedly), because their wardrobe was moved. I hope they will move it back to menu.

[vale mason]

people that want to move higher, participate in scrims and events and improve this way. there is only so much you can improve in normal lobbies

things are pretty stagnant for "average" players, because of lack of players. I think that pros and newbies are in better position. pros have their events and newbies their bots. It's the most boring for average players.

[true steeple]

it's also a pain for comp players, having 15 real players per lobby isnt useful for training/warmup

bots are easy to predict, while players arent

[vale mason]

i meant to say that comp players have their events and scirms somewhere on discord and they have somewhat balanced matchups in their group

thats better than being average and not fitting anywhere

[true steeple]

yeah but when there is more players in events than regular lobbies, there is a problem

[tame stag]

only just saw this but here's my main reason why i'm not playing as much anymore

1. I've done everything to do in the game apart from the quests. This is definitely a veteran issue, in that I completed pretty much everything the game had to offer BR and LTM wise to the point I have only one milestone left (and that's intentionally not being done by me for the bit). While I can go on and complete the quests, I feel even ignoring the timegating, a lot of them still require doing the same things I've done many times before. It feels more like a grind at best to me, and if I want to know the story, I can just read it up (this is more a me thing though)

2. For me, the game has always been more of a social game, but not like the sit down and chat in lobby kind of socialising. Rather, I enjoy playing the game with random players, either fill, or especially sitting in a VC or something and we just go and play the game, chat about whatever while doing so. Or we lock in, work together and win battles. Playing a month after the update released, when the hype has moved on, I noticed that places like #🎮looking-for-group are a lot more inactive than before the update, let alone earlier last year. And one of the reasons why I stopped playing towards the end of last year was because I noticed the player count seemed to be lower. Even today, I will join duos and squads on fill, yet despite being on at the same times as last year, I am playing alone.

3. The game itself feels more empty. It was always going to happen with a lot of the lobby hoppers who use SAR to socialise and chat now sitting in the hub to do so, but the gamemodes all are a lot emptier than before. LtMs got hit especially hard I feel, with the move to having them both be running simultaneously just thinning out the low player numbers across more lobbies. In January, I played SvR with a friend (fair enough, towards the tail end of the peak period daily), but we didn't expect that almost every game was just us two in it. Furthermore, I find myself waiting for longer periods for a game than before. One of SAR's best features IMO was the ability to do a quick game, then leave and hop into another game. But now if I'm waiting for 5 minutes between games constantly, it doesn't feel like much. Especially since the social hub does not really appeal as much to me.

4. Admittedly, this is not a developer issue, but since this post is asking for why i'm not playing as well, I'll include this is here. Most of my friend group simply lost interest. And a lot of the people I used to play SAR with have moved on, even from this server. Since most of my motivation for playing SAR was to play the core gamemodes with friends after I finished everything to do pre-SAW... yeah.

oh dear sry for the wall of text

[tame stag]

i recall runescape has a thing where some of the top players provide input into balancing decisions and such. but i doubt that'll work for what SAR is looking for. Furthermore while I do agree with stuff like this involving some players having direct input and access potentially, I am wary unless you're able to get input from a good representation of the playerbase, especially since SAR isn't focusing on balancing for just end game players who know exactly what to do

[drifting fox]

The reason why I started the whole community input thing is because there are features that the devs spent a lot of time developing, e.g. blender or the pearl quest, that were only discovered to be unpopular after their release.

In addition, it feels like the developers are permamently focused on fixing old things than making new things, and I think that lack of input is why this is the case, they keep having to go "here's a fix, is it good now, nope, adjust it again" and it takes months to make a feature that could've been released in a decent state if only players had input before it was released

[tame stag]

i personally get that, and i'm not denying that it can be of use. I agree some form of community input can be helpful. But what I fear with such ideas is that based on how communities act in feedback on almost every game I've played, many people giving feedback they don't realise other people play the game, and they play it differently. So IMO yes, good idea, but needs a very good implementation that covers as much as possible.

i for one would love to play open betas to help out and test, but idk how useful that will be for SAR

[wispy pumice]

I really admire the mindset that you have! I do agree about the Runescape vs. SAR.

Although, to be fair, there is one important difference - the console playerbase makes up the majority of the new players.

They may not have immediate access to Discord, though.

Say, have you read through this?

I am quite biased as you can imagine. So, I would love to know if you think that linked suggestions seems inclusive enough to the whole playerbase.

It's just as an example of the kind of feedback on this Discord; if it doesn't quite hit, then I would be interested in learning more about what it is missing.

But yeah, frankly, it's extremely difficult to reach out to the underrepresented players.

And I always wonder if they are even aware that they are allowed to suggest changes, because they would sooner leave the community/platform than make suggestions, I would reckon.

[tame stag]

truth is, SAR has a big casual playerbase. and if there's one thing that i'll note, the players more likely to be willing to give feedback are players more invested into the game then a person who occasionally plays with friends at parties. e.g. casual players won't really give feedback on weapon changes and balancing bc they don't care as much, they just play the game, shoot and die, and whether they win or lose bc one gun or another is OP doesn't matter as much.

the trouble is, how do you make changes in a way that accommodates the fact SAR has a lot of these casual players, while also catering to more experienced and passionate players?

[wispy pumice]

Well, the reality is that you don't.

Rather, you don't accommodate them, but, instead, find a way to include them in your feedback pool regardless of the method of which they are added.

So, include them even if it is a painstaking chore to ask them directly. The effort is worth it. But, it doesn't have to be by asking them - it could be a data-driven solution, technically.

[tame stag]

IMO that's already taking place. but that's an educated guess

player metrics are probably already in use along with feedback from this channel and other channels. for instance, devs know where players are from for instance already, hence why no OCE server yet despite it being a popular suggestion in this discord

[wispy pumice]

yea it's definitely aggregated

hmm speaking of things

I have to do some mathematics stuff

by the way, I do recommend you check out the SvR thread I linked - it has a fair number of supporters, so I would love to know if it serves as a way to pick apart the feedback across the community

SvR is not a particularly large majority of the game, so I think maybe it is pretty fully encapsulating

I was also told that there used to be older versions of it... but I haven't searched for them yet. But I am sure they are there

[vale mason]

IMHO input sessions should be more about new features, like Scratcher said "new fishing will look like that, what do you think", less so about balacing because that is tricky to accomodate all players

it saves time, for example people could outright say they do not like how the new wardrobe/MTN plays out

[tame stag]

I agree that's a good idea. Because feel is just as important as the metrics. But I believe that "feel" varies depending on what kind of player you are, especially with certain features like rebooting for example.

[vale mason]

in terms of balancing weapons, this could end up ending catering to very poor ideas that wouldn't even make the people that made them happy. Kids just inputing about their favourite weapon "hehe yes nerf that, i hate that weapon becasue i don't use it"

[tame stag]

I do support something like that being a thing. I just would like it be as accessible as possible

[tame stag]

Shudders to the time someone suggested to nerf sniper because they kept dying to comp players in solos using it

[vale mason]

or nerfing AK because somebody fights it mid range

etc.

in any case, I'd rather devs use their common sense instead

[tame stag]

Ye- but if it's about new features, I still feel community input is definitely most welcome. as you said, MTN and how it's unintuitive if you're a returning player is definitely one that could've been much improved

[vale mason]

i think it's also just poorer choice for new players frankly

[tame stag]

All I'm really saying is it needs to be really accessible

[vale mason]

yep, it should be in game, not in discord, for some surveying

if thats what you mean

[tame stag]

Yep. Put it where the players are potentially

I'm down for stuff even like an open beta for example or some way of trialling it in game and giving it feedback

[vale mason]

PTR (public test realms) - was being said that it's too expensive

[tame stag]

Won't be surprised at all- but either way, I feel like with these kinds of things, the optimal way is to give it to people to just play around with. Videos and descriptions may not suffice but I'm going way too deep into this

[vale mason]

yeah that would be the best way convienience wise at least

[drifting fox]

Yes exactly, the important part is getting the concept right. The devs can work out the details and the balance

[dapper dagger]

I came back to the game after a while and was extremely confused as to why everything was gone with my UI, loaded into the game and got a forced tutorial which made me quit in 3 minutes. Everything before was very straightforward, the locations and controls simple, so it felt like putting a hat on a hat to me. At least put an option to skip the tutorial or maybe bring back to old UI? I really want to keep playing because the game and community are perfect but this de motivates me a ton

[vale mason]

i feel you, tho tutorial lasts 4 minutes so you were soooo close

[dapper dagger]

lol

[obsidian flint]

I have stopped playing after finishing the story mode of the expansion because there were no more. For a live service game, I expected more missions to be gradually added as time goes by. It would be enough to make me want to play again

[soft needle]

A small side-note on the interests of casual and competitive players.

There does exist an overlap. Players in general appreciate quality of life features, as well as design choices aimed towards keeping friction to a minimum. Nobody likes longer wait times, and most players prefer to have more full lobbies - but - if they are going to have emptier lobbies then they would prefer to wait less for such lobbies.

Think about it. If you 'know' you're going to geta bot lobby and get a choice to wait 1 minute, 3 minutes or 5 minutes, players will choose the 1 minute option almost every time.

Which saves them 4 minutes per match, relative to the 5 minute option. Players' time matters.

[bitter belfry]

I just wish the game was a bit more polished, tbh

I feel like SAR mainly focuses on adding new/temporary content, though. That's how it's always been, as far as I remember

[wispy pumice]

You know, I always figured that the "Animal Army" role would be this opportunity for Pixile to put their faith in a handful of community players, right? (Hence why I'm not one - nobody can trust me, LOL! )

But really though, maybe it's not necessarily a group of people they would trust to put in a group call with the devs and give directions, like, "Okay, here's what you need to work on now."

But rather, what if they were open to the idea of creating a #dev-public channel that those trustworthy players in particular are the ONLY ones who have access to view. So, it's like, "We will take/have taken your advice/suggestions here, and/or, show you what we have been cooking up in the kitchen lately."

I know that it is a stretch, but I genuinely believe that there is more value to having community input where it can make the biggest difference, as opposed to, I guess, keeping an overly cautious hundred-foot minimum distance rule, which is what this forum feels like sometimes, and honestly, even how that old blog felt like too with the percentage markers.

Of course, 99 feet or closer, is totally fine! A biweekly dev blog would be sufficient for most players - maybe like, 45 to 50 feet away as opposed to 100. Then, a public dev channel would be like, 15 or 20 feet away. But, yeah - that's the point where I am right now in this thought process of, me just thinking how does SAR guarantee a slam dunk success in 2027?

I understand there's company IP and such to worry about, so I will make it clear ahead of time that I'm a huge proponent of open-source and community-driven development more than I am with closed-source, behind-closed-doors style. It is my personal philosophy, and that makes me extremely biased.

[vale mason]

what kind of polish you would like?

[charred badger]

Player agency I bet

[vale mason]

past egg launcher, i don't think that there was anything that was shaking up the gameplay. Past that it felt "temporary".

that was 4 years ago

[bitter belfry]

A better crosshair

Add more visual cues so it's easier to tell when you are stunned and can't fire.

An improved inventory UI, since I feel the UI shouldn't be too far from the center of the screen where the action is.

I should be able to use magnets in solos or squads without worrying about dying too early and only getting a fraction of the DNA. I really don't want to play LTMs just to farm DNA, since I'm burnt out from those modes.

The royale map has outdated functionality.

The social hub's map was updated, but not the royale's. Which makes no sense

Downed markers and vial markers need some work. If you have two downed players, you can't tell whether teammate blue is the one to the north or the one to the south.

The game doesn't have visible spread cones. The current one is tiny and blends in with the environment. It's just as bad as the crosshair.

[drifting fox]

pixile just hire this guy already

[bitter belfry]

A lot needs polishing, lol

I've never had so much feedback for a game 💀

[vale mason]

oh, I thought you would adress netcode or something like that

[bitter belfry]

That too, lol

I didn't list everything, because my list is very long

[drifting fox]

the one time they tried fixing the netcode it got worse

just leave it

[vale mason]

I had to say that was refreshing take and those were some points i never seen

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

[vale mason]

what do you mean?

[bitter belfry]

You can hover over markers on the social hub map, but you can't do the same in royale.

Being able to tell who the purple marker represents would benefit royale, imo

[wispy pumice]

Yea see this is why I'm like, get these light green guys a special room so they can actually find out if these are things being worked on.

I would hate to see the same thing happen as it did in the past where good feedback never gets done. You should be the first to see what's actually being added under the hood.

Also lol @ the netcode thing

[vale mason]

did you consider writing one mega suggestion for polishing visibility?

[bitter belfry]

I don't really have the motivation to write a long, formal post. I prefer talking freely, because long structured posts feel exhausting for me to write

But I'll think about it and see if it's worth writing

[wispy pumice]

I would love to be able to give some input about good netcode!

One of the major struggles with the Doom community for the last 10+ years has been, "Like, zoinks Scoob, there is absolutely NO way that we can backport zscript into [insert open source multiplayer Doom port here]!". And, of course, most people have run away from it.

Doom is a prime example of netcode struggles over the decades because client/server functionality is completely different from peer-to-peer, which is how things used to be.

So the point is, I feel that deep pain. That's why I never went into game development, haha. I am the exact kind of person to want to build cool and crazy things, so, once I create something, I also bring along complexity that totally overwhelms me.

Honestly, there's few people in this world who are able to thrive in that environment.

Oh yeah, I'm also completely understating the entire situation with doom... it's actually far deeper than that. But anyway yeah

[wispy pumice]

Please do! Nobody will really be able to write them down anywhere, unless you do it. Although, you don't really need to structure it or make it really long.

I just do it that way because I have a tendency to do that for most IRL stuff (ugh, so much laundry!)

[soft needle]

If you need assistance with preparing feedback, feel free to let me know. ^_^

As for netcode - that's not an area that I can provide direct feedback on - although...

SAR-Com.

[wispy pumice]

So, generally the thing with netcode is the same as with ordinary code.

Like, the race is only gonna be as fast as the slowest horse in the stable.

Except, netcode takes that problem and makes it a lot harder, because suddenly, the racetrack is now the size of Texas or bigger, and you have to seriously speed up your horses to become super horses, to make the long trek.

[soft needle]

In that case helping ensure that the slowest horse hasn't got a faster track to race upon might help with the overall situation.

[wispy pumice]

I remember Huffman compression was a pretty popular thing back in the day (read: 50s), but now it's like, Zstandard I guess is more popular now (read: apparently didn't even get published in the RFC until Oct. 2018). And that's pretty much all I know.

Well, that and hashmaps/hashtables are your friend, haha.

[wispy pumice]

Man, I was just browsing through the forums, and wow - there's been a ton of new feature-level threads, kinda like the SvR one, and many, many other mode suggestions since jattaman made this thread. I highly recommend people to also review them using the search feature and see if your idea(a) have been brought up already. If not, go ahead and make a fresh thread anyway!

For those who've already ventured the threads, I wonder, which of those threads do people here think this is a really high priority idea to have in the game? I am sure the answer is yes for whether you still love the idea(s) made; that is not the question, though.

What I mean is that, I remember when jattaman said that Pixile would be wise to put as many of these new updates to the next major release cycle as possible, as opposed to putting them in silent updates/patches because nobody will notice them. And I completely agree.

So, I am asking/wondering, what feature(s) would be the one(s) that you absolutely have to see in the next update? Or, is it another feature request, or a combination of features?

You don't have to say which ones they are or anything. Just a count of how many you've seen that you voted yes for.

Actually, once I finish up with laundry, I'll make a thread for that specifically, where people can go into more detail about specifics.

So, for just this discussion, just say how many you can count with your hands/fingers. Haha. Thanks!

[soft needle]

The thing is that there 'are' plenty of suggestions that are cool or even good for the game, but resources are limited, and there is always the looming question of whether the pay-out for implementing a suggestion will be worth the while.

It's also possible that some suggestions won't align with Pixile's vision for the game - which is also fair.

That doesn't mean that the suggestions shouldn't keep coming. But it does mean that it helps to try to cover suggestions from as many angles as reasonable so that an informed decision on such may be made more reliably.

Oh, and that sounds like a good starting point for a new thread, by the way. ^_^

[sweet flower]

I left for a while bc of other games

And also after i completed the main quest it became boring

Especially since there are the npcs that have 24 hour quest cooldowns

Just too time consuming

[wispy pumice]

Dang, I just read through this thread and saw [Logan's post](#1456591004273606826 message) about the idea of providing more transparency. (Sorry for all the links - trying to avoid any unnecessary pings!)

I just want to add onto what I said before, and say that nobody will - or ever should, honestly - think that people are going to be deceptive about features, think that they're being hidden, etc.

It's really more like, allow all the people with passion for the game on the Pixile team to be able to benefit directly from the passion of those who are in the community - the Animal Army - who have proven themselves beyond a doubt through their contributions here in the community and have earned the role.

I just think that imagining that the features should be rolled out in their best possible shape is driven best with the greatest amount of motivation that the community can possibly offer.

Others can agree or disagree, or have differing opinions. I am just saying that's how I feel personally.

[static nimbus]

wow heck i missed all the discussions 😭
anyways, got my PC back, booted up SAR, won a solo match, tried to get the black pearl, nothing, quit

i'm kind of like the first unread message i read: It's not that I'm quitting it for good, i'm just gonna play other games more

[drifting fox]

Let me be very clear

With my "transparency of upcoming features" suggestion, I mean to every player. In the clear. Not to a limited audience.

Limited audiences have a syncopation problem - the fact that they are chosen to be in a role mean that they might be less critical than the general player audience.

This is why I do not recommend that the devs limit the clarity of upcoming features to a limited audience. The transparency idea only works if the whole playerbase is able to give their input to guide the implementation of upcoming features, given something to work off of.

[wispy pumice]

Like I get that, but also at the same time Discord wouldn't be the platform for that level of involvement, anyway.

But, are you referring to back-and-forth guidance, or just one-directional guidance? The forum threads here serve as a purpose for the latter, so that's already technically covered... for that sort of wholesale-level of discussion, surveys and such are perfectly reasonable and justifiable.

For back-and-forth discussion, you absolutely want to (and need to) limit the crowd.

I am talking about back-and-forth guidance on Discord. Discussion and chats directly that are between Pixile team and the community should be kept at a minimum because, if everyone is allowed to participate in such a discussion medium, it would put a lot of pressure on the moderators to be able to keep things civil.

But, yes - you would want both.

I will be unavailable for the next 8/9 hours, but if you have any further questions or anything, I'll get back to you later. Hope that explains everything! 🙂

One thing I will add before I leave is this: there's a huge difference between a bad and a good survey - ask the right questions in the right way and in the right format, like,

"Here's a list of all of the biggest ideas we have right now - pick 3 out these 6 for which ones you would love to see in the game by Q3 2026?"

vs.

six individual questions about "Do you think it would help if we worked on idea [X]?"

etc. So, yeah, don't undestatimate surveys

[vale mason]

"Discussion and chats directly that are between Pixile team and the community" did Scratcher meant that?

let's be sure we are on the same page here

DEVS sharing plans, collecting information, is not a discussion by default. It can be done in form of surveys

[vale mason]

I am against discussions in wider scope(lack of manpower to manage this imho). I'm also against them in narrower scope. I'm in favour of wide net surveys, that would give everyone a say, instead of a few chosen ones that might be very specific people that do not bring game anywhere.

also, forum threads isn't about feedback on UPCOMING stuff, it's just feedback postfactum. obvious but to be clear here

[drifting fox]

Okay, let me clarify.

Maybe it was a mistake to suggest "discussions" or "input sessions".

What I really want to see: Pixile providing the information about what ideas they have for the next update, beyond what is currently given in the roadmap, with some basic explanation of how they think the feature should be implemented.
This would be done at the "we just started working on the next update" phase.

Goal: get input on the feature to direct the development.

Current: Release the feature -> get input

Wanted: release the feature IDEA -> get input.

Mechanism of input: same as always, normal feedback channels without formal mechanism.

Example:

• We are working on fishing, you will catch fish like this: (early image), what do you guys think?

(feedback threads made)

• development continues, advised using the feedback threads, without needing the developers to reply, just they take it into account like they currently take feedback in account

[vale mason]

btw not once "discussion" was mentioned in your original thread about input halls, but you did actually suggest it here in this thread

[drifting fox]

I'm trying to figure out what would be best as well

[vale mason]

so you want normal feeback channels? not everyone is here on discord hmm

[drifting fox]

It's exactly the same as if they released a feature normally

People will tell them on bluesky or twitter or whatever what they think and here too

[vale mason]

okey, i get it, but where information [we are working on fishing...] would be shown exactly?

in "events" channel here on discord, reddit and all kind of things at once yes?

that sounds good, but I think making survey in game "hello, we plan to do this and this, would you like to say what you think about this and this" inside the game would be cool as well?

would reach more people

[drifting fox]

I think steam as regular announcements

Not a fan of surveys

[vale mason]

it can be more convenient for average people, that aren't fans to the extent of following pixel on discord etc.

not everyone will bother to participate in steam forums, reddit, or here

doesn't mean that their voice is less valuable

[drifting fox]

At some point you have to ask yourself how significant that voice is going to be

The changes being made should be accessible to everyone, if someone feels strongly about the changes, they can just come here or wherever is convenient for them

[obsidian flint]

Isn't this feedback forum a way to talk to devs already? I see them replying sometimes

[drifting fox]

Yes, it is.

The proposal is: instead of taking feedback after releasing a feature, take feedback early in the development of a feature

[obsidian flint]

That's silly

[vale mason]

that's not silly if it prevents crap like juicer

saves time to redo/repair some things

[obsidian flint]

Look up the feedback paradox

[vale mason]

I will, but before that, will share example: yesterday there was an update to age of empires 2, devs made better decisions because the changes were first presented to community earlier to test it out, leading to more balanced changes from feedback before release. Ofc, this isn't the same as what Scratcher proposes, but Pixel said they can't afford PTR pretty much if I recall.

[soft needle]

Taking the juicer as an example - players would likely have pointed out that it needed something more even if described purely in numbers.

What Scatcher is suggesting is that having players be temperature-checked on a potential upcoming thing could be an opportunity to avoid misses.

[vale mason]

I checked it, what is your point exactly?

[sweet flower]

Black pearl

Any reasons needed?

[vale mason]

you just given one:black pearl, lol

[vale mason]

Let's make a rule, one post per person, because this got out of hand and the thread got really big... it's better to divide discussion into separate threads than to overwhelm people.

Why aren't you playing? Please share your reasons. Let's keep it 1 post per person, thread is chunky

[soft needle]

(2,300 posts in is a little late for the new rule. ^_^)

[tame stag]

Might as well add message milestones in the title at this point :P
(E.g. 2300 post milestone)

[pliant solstice]

Simply distracted.  SAR is my fallback game.

[last glade]

if you quit the game because of chance, then that reflects more about you than the game

[sweet flower]

I mean i didnt quit-quit the game

Im just taking a long break until im bored of the game im playing

[vale mason]

we won't learn what to improve in the game from all reasons, but atacking someone adds animosity vibes and needless offtopic. one post per person, giving reasons only please

[obsidian flint]

I stopped tracking the black pearl and the perfect catch for every fish and bug. If it happens, it happens. But I have completed the game for what I care. It's nice to log into the game and not getting reminded that I'm still missing those impossible things

[trim bobcat]

The free codes are no longer free codes ://

[glacial cargo]

Overall, I love the update. The quests are fun, and I enjoy being able to explore the map. The friends list and private messaging features are great additions too. I can tell the devs worked hard on this, and I genuinely appreciate that.
However, I really don’t like how SAW Social Hubs seem to have more players than actual battle lobbies. It feels like this update hurt the player count for solos, duos, and squads. Yesterday, I was in a squads match with only 9 real players — literally just two real squads. In solos, it’s hard to find a match with over 30 real players. Before the update, lobbies were packed. Solos reached 64 real players consistently. Duos were fun to solo in, and squads were full of competitive players — sweats like ShavedThrone10, Mkel, and others — which made the game exciting and challenging.

Ever since the update (December 9th), I haven’t been in a full lobby. Matchmaking also takes way too long. Waiting two minutes just to get into a match with three real players isn’t fun. I miss pressing “Ready” and going straight into a lobby that started in 13 seconds — and those lobbies were full. That’s when the game felt competitive and exciting.
Now, I rarely try as hard in matches because either:

A) There are fewer skilled players, which makes games too easy and less rewarding, or
B) There are too many bots, and sometimes multiple bot teams randomly track me.

I really miss the old SAR. I’ve been playing since Season 2, and I always felt like Super Animal Royale was about quick matchmaking, packed games, and intense gameplay. I understand this update must have been difficult to develop, and I respect the effort. But I can’t help feeling like “Super Animal Royale” has shifted away from its original focus. The game was about guns, chaos, and competition — not primarily social hubs, fishing, and exploring.

I don’t hate the update. In fact, there are parts I really enjoy. But I feel like SAW changed the core identity of the game. I also think it would help if the devs created public feedback forms before major updates, so players could share their thoughts in advance. That way, the community could feel more involved in big changes.
SAR will always be one of my favorite games. I just think there are some major issues right now:

-Long matchmaking times
-Low real-player counts in matches
-Too many bots who come out of nowhere to kill you
-A shift away from the original competitive theme
-Lack of public feedback before major updates

I’ll never hate this game. I just wish the devs had consulted longtime players before launching such a big change. The game is still fun, and I like the social aspects — but right now, it feels a little too social and not competitive enough. For my final opinion, I do like the old SAR better than the new SAR.

[last glade]

How much my English teacher expects us to write in a minute:

[glacial cargo]

Since it was only one post per person, I had to cram it all into one big thing lol!

[last glade]

Fair enough

[static nimbus]

I feel the same way, i wished SAW would be like an expansion pack like Opposing Force to Half Life, now people are busy trying to get legendary fishies and bugs and the black pearls. Literally just play Animal Crossing-esque games at this point

[glacial cargo]

Yess! Like SAW could be one of the gamemodes you can choose when you were able to press "CHANGE" in the main menu to see all the gamemodes. SAW could've been its own hub that you could choose, and still be able to matchmake and stuff, and I feel as if that would be better for the game, and player count.

[static nimbus]

Atleast from the discussions we can see a pattern of what causes people to quit. A one time reason could be a person-specific problem (no offense, me included ). Repeated reasons could be a pattern that may be more than just a person-centric problem.

[dusky wasp]

It gets boring. The social hubs and quests are fun, and I actually spend more time in the social hub than in the game modes. The BR aspect is extremely repetitive, there's not much direct interaction with your surroundings, and the map never gets updates any more. I want something new in the BR, something exciting. Bc as it is, I'm liking the BR portion less and less

[gusty apex]

Tbf, battle royales are stale now.
I think the only battle royale I see that’s still popular is Fortnite but that one changes / adds new stuff every few months with its new battle passes, along with a lot of collabs, and skins that make people operate on a loss fallacy. Not fully on last part but still there. I’m sure there’s other battle royale games but, I don’t hear about them since not interested in that genre.

The map as previously mentioned by many is the same, only changes is new buildings that replaced bunch of crates and containers.

What’s worse is ALL game modes use the SAME map.
Battle royale, social hub, bwoking dead and S.A.W vs Rebel.
Which greatly influences or messes with balances of most modes; or lack of updates causes others to just become stale or bad match ups.

Then again I don’t think it matters for a few game modes. Saw V Sar uses the same few maps that don’t get influenced by map updates anymore; and are thus stale.
Bwoking dead tends to end in same-ish areas… Might be a bias and need confirmation but afaik it’s rare if not impossible to ever have a rescue not be at certain locations (or near).

But like I mentioned before, I mostly just play saw v Rebel and that gamemode has (as respectfully as I can say) been abandoned. Not that I can fault them given they were working on animal world but nothing. No new map areas, maybe one small balance change but I stopped tracking since it wasn’t anything major afaik.
Some hope for “core modes” changes but, I don’t even know if it’s considered a core mode and assume it just means BR and indirectly others; especially if it changes or rebalances guns.

[soft snow]

Just read through this forum and the insight/criticisms here are interesting to know about; BR gameplay has become not as popular as it used to be (outside a select few like Fortnite or Apex), which is likely the reason for such a shift in SAR's identity as a game.

I miss the simplicity of it pre-SAW, but to my understanding, its repetition is what drove most players away. Even I sometimes find myself doing other stuff outside of gameplay and taking some breaks from SAR. Before the expansion, I hung out in the main menu writing my own SAR stories and messing around in the photo booth.

SAR needed the update to its UI from how cluttered it used to be, but the iteration (BananOS) left the main menu very empty as a result; having the menu be available on a button press with a sleeker interface is a step in the right direction. Even though it's not actually in the main menu, it's a great start and I hope we eventually get it to that point!
Besides addressing repetitiveness in its core modes to help player retention, I think one of the biggest things SAR needs atm is to balance its new complexity with its past simplicity.

[soft snow]

In days of old, SAR's only things to do were BR with the rotational SvR, Bwoking Dead, and (occasionally) Mystery Mode, alongside the photo booth if you felt like messing around outside the modes or getting pictures for any reasons. Super straightforward and fun, but adapting to the changing popularity of genres meant sacrificing that simplicity and embracing a huge changeup to the game with added bells and whistles.

It's not a bad thing by any means. SAR couldn't stay the way it was forever or it'd risk staying stale even with new updates, but the addition of quests while nice for expanding the lore and bringing new life to the game, also brought new kinds of grinds it never once had.
I enjoyed the quests and character banters, but sometimes things didn't click and I ended up getting stuck on some due to confusion. It's especially apparent when you see new and returning players asking how to change their character when launching 2.0 for the first time.

imo, doing something small like adding a delivery mole that greets you off the ferry and shows you to Moosevelt (who then shows you to the Welcome Center's MTN station) can do wonders for accessibility.

That's about all I have for now; thought I'd toss my hat (or mask) in the ring and get involved in the discussion

And I do love the expansion! It's a great reconstruction of a game I've been with for about 6 or 7 years at this point (this is NOT the joke you think it is), and it seems to make bringing new stuff much easier than before.
That said, it doesn't come without some also constructive criticism to how it can be built up and improved upon for years to come. It's like building a house; the foundation always comes first, and mistakes within it should be addressed before it can snowball as its being built.

[soft needle]

Fair. As a matter of interest, what elements of the foundation would you suggest is helpful, or even key, to improve upon?

[soft snow]

From observation, I think the social hub is a nice part of it that allows people to make friends, especially for kids who aren't able to use Discord.
Sometimes I stumble on them roleplaying serving pizzas or burgers, adventuring in caves, and whatever they may do next.
Outside of that, it brought new possibilities that couldn't really be dreamed of in old SAR, and it's a nice way to take a break from PvP.

In its current state though, it feels a little barebones once you're done with most of your quests, so imo that should be addressed at some point in its lifespan

which I know based on the update roadmap (and the fact there's a new building under construction) that will happen

[soft snow]

Fun fact: Through the social hub, I met a kid diagnosed with terminal cancer who played on console, but isn't old enough to use Discord (told me he's now cancer free I think 2 months after we met; he managed to beat cancer after 8 years!)
We yapped a lot and did quests together while having a fun time through his ups and downs. Without the social hub, I think he'd have been very lonely and chat would've still been quite limited

That's one of my points actually; the social hub is what I believe to be one of the most important additions to SAR and the main part of the foundation I was mentioning earlier

Console chat would be part of the house's framework, and its social activities are all the structures which has room to be built upon later.

Anything else would be like decor and quality of life to make it more full of fun stuff that keeps players coming back

[soft needle]

That's a heart warming story, and I hope he manages to shake it for good.

I wouldn't have thought that RP was a thing that was much done in the hub - although there is more opportunity to do such. 🤔

So, to go back to answering my question it sounds like you think the social and perhaps even para-social elements would be a good thing to invest in.

[soft snow]

It's the most important thing to me, but it's not the only thing. The BR mode at the end of the day is still THE core mode, and it goes back to addressing the pain point about repetitiveness in it and the other modes.

People have thought respawn tanks would be the shake-up it needed when it was teased, and one of my CC friends even said it'd be a bad idea.
Then it came out and not too much seems to have changed from its addition. Sure it encourages squads to stick around for end of match rewards, and allows those who die early to potentially get back into the fight, which is a great change all around for quality of life.

The problem people had from what I've read here is how little it shook up the core gameplay of BR.

I'd also support bringing in something like new powerups, as well as a rotation of select powerups players can find each week to address bloat if we get a lot

(then again there are quests tied to certain powerups, so that'd have to be a consideration)

There's also potential that because Super Animal World is situated in an archipelago in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, another idea I had is to have a randomized map for BR explained to be one of several islands, while keeping Super Animal World for the hub, SvR, and Bwoking Dead.

[soft snow]

That's a heart warming story, and I hope he manages to shake it for good.
From what he told me some weeks ago, he's beaten cancer and is able to live a normal life again
Though I haven't seen him online in almost a month, but it could be a number of factors with that in mind

[soft needle]

Fair. Best not to think too much about it. He will show up when he fancies.

Randomized maps would need to be randomly selected from human made maps. It would be cool if some were player made. Might also be cool for SvR proxy war maps.

It does seem that respawn tanks didn't have the negative impage some expected them to have - although the jury kind of still is out for that.

[wispy pumice]

I know I've said a lot in this thread, but this is is actually the first time so far that I am not playing this game anymore.

And the reason is actually quite funny: I was super addicted to the Carl shop, but then suddenly it seemed like I owned every single Carl shop item now. Besides that, the only other reason I stopped playing at this point is that I am waiting for the next major update now.

After being in this thread for this long, I do still genuinely believe that there are big changes coming down the line this year, not just based on the roadmap alone. Sure, I do still worry in the back of my mind, like, what if it turns out the core modes and/or competitive/ranked aren't what people were hoping for? Nobody is a prophet - the best I can do is keep trying to compile a community list containing the features everyone wanted.

Basically, at the end of the day, I would be devastated if most of the friends I've made here ended up leaving the community because it turned out that these roadmap updates discouraged them enough to not want to stick around anymore, because they were too dissatisfied.

Maybe it's because I'm a millennial and, even though I could very well ride off into the sunset and move to other games, I would still genuinely feel awful if everyone I met here parted ways, or even if only a few people do. But, it does seem like there's some who are on their last legs holding out hope for some of the promises in the roadmap.

So, basically, I'm gone for now, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

And, as to if there would be more cosmetics to buy in the carl shop, would I come back? Well, I think that is a terrible habit to get into, and it was not easy to get out of it - I consider myself lucky. Like, even if it's a piece of cake to build up or accrue the coins needed (which is really is, most of the time), there's not much point to it if familiar faces are no longer there.

Hope this sheds light on my final thoughts for this thread.

[soft needle]

Saying a lot is not something that should be apologized for, usually. While I do not expect those who write little to write a lot, neither would I expect to be expected to be brought down to the level of those who write little. To each their own.

In terms of players being put off - I'll say it again. Friction is an enemy. The SAW update introduced a fair bit of friction (#1460227182969487503 message goes over a few things that originally needed smoothing over).

These new and upcoming updates do in part reduce that introduced friction.

Although I think that the queue again feature needs to go one step further - as outlined in #1481369808464511006 message.

Also, agreed that people are more likely to stick with a game that fits their, and their friends, habits. Ensuring nothing erodes those groups' motives to play is important.

[signal walrus]

I think open beta weekends for steam users would yield better informative infomation for balance changes and adjustments then say set people. Wider audience reach variety of players and opinions can be gained. U loose surprise factor on certain things but it isnt uncommon to see Indie games do it. I think pokemon unite has open betas for certain characters too so even brand associated games do it. Just a developers choice.

[true steeple]

I am doubtful about that Hot Mode things. It looks like a bandage that will almost do nothing. People that plays a lot will not be attracted by a XP boost. For sure it's good for new players but I was expecting like... a longer lobby time with a possibility to join it even if the lobby itself started (not the game)

[worldly fiber]

Actually I think it'd likely work just fine...

As long as the multiplier isn't set so small that it becomes instinctively apparent that it's just a label, some people will be drawn in by it, much like how discount tags make products seem cheaper, even if the final price actually matches or exceeds market price.

[tardy quartz]

This would be a pretty tough one for the matchmaker without being treated as a separate mode I assume, but I can pass it on. There’s some other stuff we’re looking into to help with fuller lobbies still we can’t quite share yet 👍

[true steeple]

yeah I can expect it differs from before SAW, for me the almost 2mins matchmaking and the fact if you missed the lobby you need to wait another 2mins is the main problem that made lobbies almost empty compared to before. But ofc I will see if the others additions like auto queue and play again could fix a little this problem

[true steeple]

Yeah I understand what you mean but I am afraid of having that hot mode to attract everyone while emptying the others gamemodes. At least its only one hot mode per day so let's see on march 31th

[worldly fiber]

That... is quite plausible actually.

[violet flicker]

for me personally it's just distraction by other games. i still love SAR and play every now and then

[soft needle]

A very long time ago (#🧩feedback message), one thing that I implied would help with empty lobbies was the provision of information on when the next lobby for a mode is going to close, and how many players are presently in lobby.

While the presentation is rough, and the UI too bulky for a direct translation, it would be helpful for that information to show while the mode selection screen is active, 'and' for just information on when the next mode currently queued into is going to begin. If that is dependent on when a current match ends then, as suggested for hamsterball racing, indicate the approximate progress of the current match).

Depending on players' chosen options (as it is not for everybody), have them join the pre-match lobby sooner.

Also - going from match-end straight into the next pre-match lobby, as an option, would minimize friction.

[tame stag]

i'm curious to see what hot mode does. personally i have my doubts, but new season, people tend to flood back

[soft needle]

So long as players believe that the game is trying, and they think that they like what the game can be, people will return.

[soft snow]

I'm one of those people; SAR is quite a fun game and it sounds like I'm glazing, but in my experience it's true. It's got great worldbuilding and lore, the weapons feel good to use and satisfying to dodge, hamball is one of my favorite parts, and the community overall is one of the nicest I've been involved with

Of course it's got highs and lows. SAW was quite the adjustment from the usual formula and not everyone is used to it yet, getting into games is a bit harder and takes longer (though Hot Mode, auto-queue, and play again buttons may help with this), and there's also the bot/player ratio.
Every game has highs and lows, but many times out of ten I'll commend their dev team for trying, because they also have many ways to get back to those highs

In a nutshell, I'm an optimist who knows potential when I see it.
There are pain points like what is mentioned above, but I think the game will get better as they get addressed in future patches; one step at a time

[vale mason]

played a bit, game feels a bit now like those "quirky fun" modes in worms armageddon where every crate is concrete donkey or super banana bomb. Not a fan. I appreciate the overall polish of things that felt underdeveloped, but this is polish with some "lol random" icing and not core modes meaningful additions.
My two main points seem to stay for indefinite period of time.

[lilac jewel]

Too Many Issues With The Switch That The Devs WONT FIX, But More ISSUES Keep Getting Piled On To The Mess Of Issues

[tardy quartz]

What issues do you have still?

[lilac jewel]

The Chinese Text Chat One, And The Not Being Able To Play In Crossplay

[tardy quartz]

Already fixed the Chinese text chat one and waiting for Nintendo to push out the update. Did you experience that Crossplay one yourself and can share details in #🐛bugs-and-tech-help? That'd help immesnely, as we haven't been able to recreate it and only have one reported instance of it so far

Also anything else you've been experiencing on Switch feel free to report too, since these are new issues as of today's update, but you mentioned other issues

[lilac jewel]

Yeah I Did Experience The Crossplay One Myself, And The Best Way To Explain It Is That If 1 Person In The Party Has The Bug No One In The Party Can Play A Squads Match

[tardy quartz]

Gonna bump it to #🐛bugs-and-tech-help to not clog the thread up

[meager siren]

I’m not playing because of what many others have alluded to: staleness, lack of change. There are other shiny toys out there to play with, and while it’s nice to come back and play with this toy every once in a while, the other toys just are more interesting/exciting. My only feedback is that the team needs to focus on keeping things dynamic in the core gameplay: new weapons, new maps, new events, etc. The “business model” of Fortnite is unfortunately one that works: constant change. If Fortnite had the same pace of change as SAR, I’d wager it’d be a dead game. I would suggest to not worry about getting everything perfectly balanced or just right - in fact, I think some imbalance / imperfection adds to the chaos and fun, and helps promote change - even if there is potential for some power creep. The game’s foundation is solid, I think it just needs more dressing up to keep it fresh. Just my 2 cents. That being said, we are super excited to play the new update - due to these exact reasons! Thanks to the team for such a wonderful game ❤️ mr turtle

[drifting fox]

too many out of game events and never any in game ones

now that social hub is a thing you'd think we'd have in game events

[wispy pumice]

to be honest I can't wrap my brain around the update yet, it's too soon and I'm still catching up on sleep since PAX east this weekend. I'll compile my thoughts sometime later this week probably

[sand dragon]

The issue (though no fault of Super Animal Royale itself) is that people are tiring of ‘Forever Games’ in general.

It’s just hard to keep on continuously playing a game that is expected to evolve forever, as it is a futile effort to keep up

These games will always reach a point where an update sparks a rift in the community, and players leave because the game no longer feels like it once did

I feel that the inverse of what Kai said is true

[last glade]

Yeah, I agree. I'm slowly aging out of sar and heading to different games entirely such as arma reforger and enlisted.

[worldly fiber]

Which is why I tend to oppose overly radical changes; I don't think there's a balance between new features and preserving the identity of a game. The midpoint between the two displeases both, not sates both.

[sand dragon]

SAR to me is a game that I will revisit and play for a week or two maybe every 6 months?

It is good in that regard because when I revisit, it has enough changes to keep me invested but still feels familiar enough

It’s not like Fortnite where there is an entirely new map, loot pool and gimmick with 4 different crossovers that makes the game feel radically different from the last time you played

[drifting fox]

Chess is still popular because of its difficulty (for humans), it takes a lot of learning to get good and that learning motivates people to play

SAR is not very difficult in comparison, it is very easy to get into, arguably not so much required to get to a skill level where you are winning often, there is also no "book learning" so to speak

There is also much less of a playerbase to "dominate" and feel good about

[frigid nexus]

This reminds me of Geometry Dash 2.1 but we are not talking about PvE sandbox game here anyway

[tame stag]

i actually think it's really just an identity crisis- what do people really want SAR to be? and the answer is always going to be divisive because everyone has their own opinions on this

like why did people play SAR in the first place?

[soft needle]

I keep seeing the tutorial cited but it's just a one time thing and isn't long to begin with. 🤔

More important is to focus on tightening the game flows and loops, including any and all forms of non-intentional downtime (including fracture in the UI experience. Those are the things that get in the way of enjoyment not just once but repeatedly, and have a greater impact on the sustainability and repeatability of the experience.

V 2.0 introduced a megaton of friction and that is the primary reason why players dropped off, not the reasons they tell you (because friction isn't easy for the average person to identify).

.

Think of it this way. You can serve the best burger in the world but if the restaurant is a barn that is hard to get to, into and through, and smells and experiences like a barn, then you are likely to sell a lot less burgers in the long run.

[wispy pumice]

I originally started to play SAR because all the animals were/are adorable, and I REALLY wanted to unlock them. Then, I got a little more into the game for DNA maxing with the LTMs, which was fun for about 6 or 7 months up until this latest update.

Overall, what kind of threw me in for a spin was when I played Duos this week during the update, I found it weird how I'd see a ton of bots going near the mole crate instead of players. I mean, maybe one other player team, but usually that one team would be me and my partner.

The thing is, it's no problem at all to deal with even 10, 12 bots at once - you just gotta shoot fast, aim well, and keep your health/armour up.

There's two potential issues with that:
1.) You can't really tell how well the new meta is doing if there's nothing but bots standing in the way of players.
2.) It gives even the strongest of players time to relax in the BR mode. They let their guard down and they won't progress.

It's like what PathForger said: the best players in the world could be in that BR mode, but if the environment is not fully conducive all the way from the very start of the match up until the very end for them to show their fighting ability, they will feel out of place with the strange dichotomy.

That said, I would like to reintroduce the potential value of something like this [temporary, X-times-weekly, ranked event mode](#1457197549596311583 message) which might be just barely enough to meet the scope and complexity of that without tearing a rift through the entire game.

It's not the only potential angle of approach by far, but it is one I stand firm on. Besides that, I don't want my opinion be the only one that stands firm. That's why I made [this thread](#1472734035964067923 message); it is a great place where people can share their personal favourite requests.

Have a good weekend!

[frigid nexus]

Oh yeah, most people started playing this game because of cute graphic but not because of the gameplay

That's why the majority of this game community are casual players

[vale mason]

it would be helpful if thread would be left to people actually sharing reasons, instead of people theorizing about other people's reasons

Enough is enough, im deleting the thread

[vale mason]

.