Why aren't you playing? old version

[soft needle]

Ziplines are a fine idea, really, but will always be a tough ask when chosen over other throwables.

[drifting fox]

catmines are below average not really bad tbh

ziplines are bad yes

[soft needle]

Catmines come into their own to apply pressure - and do not expire as quickly as skunk bombs.

[deft tusk]

and content is allowed to be under average

games dont need everything to be the same tier

[drifting fox]

i'd say catmines need map knowledge

[vale mason]

they don't need to, but when it's not the meta is stale and people get bored quicker

[deft tusk]

there isnt a sar meta though

nades arent even meta, lots of comp players use skunks

nades are just common in pubs

[soft needle]

I wonder how catmines would pan out if they were much harder to spot (including no blast area definition), had a modestly larger area of effect but offered more time to react.

[deft tusk]

because casuals dont counter them very well so they lead to easier kills mroe often

[vale mason]

depends on what you mean by meta, but when it comes to throwables catmines are excluded from the meta

[deft tusk]

the only meta would be ninja booties but some comp players still prefer forker

[vale mason]

so there are metas as you see

[deft tusk]

yeah but games are allowed to have metas, i just dont think there is a stable meta loadout

one powerup isnt an entire meta

weapons are diverse and allow for varying playstyles

sar is really good at that

they could be better with new unique weapons

you said every niche was covered but not really

theres opportunity for burst weapons for example

[soft needle]

More superite weapons.

[vale mason]

I didn't say that. I just reported what one of the devs said.

[deft tusk]

in a broader sense yeah but i assume they said that before experimenting with blunderbuss and bwoking launcher

so its evident they are still working on new weapons

so they dont truly believe that either

[soft needle]

Also more sniper and shotgun ammo users.

I may have a couple suggestions at #🧩feedback-chat message

[worldly fiber]

Ziplines require good ping to begin to be useful

[urban merlin]

Ziplines are only """good""" to bait starving players

crouch while you throw one to not automatically ride it and for some reason players hop on those

or be deranged and throw them on the mole so that people have a harder time trying to pick things up

[pale slate]

The (already small) playerbase being split across modes is making bot lobbies the standard. It's hurting the BR part of the game significantly.

the gameplay loop became longer - the sense of pre-lobby banter is dead because of the seperated LSAW respawns and the 20 second "you've joined now play in game" -

LSAW is just 3 minutes of "oh I can fish now but there's not enough time for quests" or " I forgot to click ready cause it's taking so long and I was distracted talking to a quest";

The best part of the game is running into people in the lobby and the playful banter before matches, and while they tried to capitalise on it, they wen't overboard with how much people are actually playing by distributing them across the map

I don't know the LSaw lobby sizes, but it's always kinda dead now except for in the welcome center.

In short, this update made the game from a Social game into a Party game (Animal crossing style), and with the quests heavily leaning into the gamemodes, it's skewing how the game is played (12 scouts on a team in SvR has nothing to do with the quests obvs) , which killed its BR scene because a lack of players.

don't get me wrong, I love gunning down 15 bots in a lobby, but it's not worth waiting 3 minutes for for me.

[vale mason]

I'm not sure if i get the distinction between social and party game but i agree with the rest

BTW, when I wrote suggestion that SAR is not ready for permanent LTM, I was heavy downvoted

few years ago

Making me feel like sometimes people just want stuff without meeting consequences

unless, bwoking players only play bwoking and svr only svr

then that made sense

[lone rover]

For what it's worth I never played Bwoking before this update, but I'm pretty sure many people did play both modes even before.

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

I know some who only play SAR for those modes

[vale mason]

maybe they just HAD to make modes permanent for the glory of quests. all rest didn't matter👑

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, that too

No one wants to wait a week to finish a quest

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

I think it's a mix of both

But those modes were never really fully populated with real players anyway

[vale mason]

now it's like, BR has additional weight attached to it's balls

[vale mason]

will be more difficult to make it interesting

[soft needle]

I am curious to know how SvR and Bwoking are performing compared to pre-SAW.

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, we need switch players back, lol

[soft needle]

Also how SAW is doing.

[vale mason]

poorly

[soft needle]

As a mode.

[vale mason]

there is no pre-saw saw

[soft needle]

True. Would be interesting to know how it's doing (keeping in mind it needs to be interacted with to get to the other ones).

[vale mason]

it would be fun to see like a stats which mode has how much % of players each time you run the game

so you know where the fun is without wasting time

[soft needle]

To a point. Could be used against the game like certain charts are.

[bitter belfry]

I agree

Our squad joined a bot game, and we just exited the lobby

early game

[vale mason]

I joined bot game(10 players), won 5 times, wasted time

[bitter belfry]

Not worth the wait if the lobby is just going to be filled with bots

There is no one to wait for. So it is just a waste of time

[soft needle]

So, where did the players go, and why? 🤔 The other modes? Or are they in SAW?

Or, maybe, the added friction introduced to the process of getting from one match to the next, might be a contributing factor.

[vale mason]

btw, one or 2 weeks ago we were still talking that it's quite ok. right now it dropped below pre-update

I hope the quarterly will turn the situation around

[soft needle]

A lot of players have provided feedback since the update. I take it that Pixile is figuring out their next move based on their gut feeling and that information.

I also think that the absolute first step should be addressing the shortfalls of the new UI, and the added friction for players in between getting into matches.

That includes cutting down on wait times. I know that a couple suggestions out there suggest more for socializing - but that's what SAW is for.

That also includes a better conveyance of expected wait times, both while waiting as well as before one clicks on the mode icons. An estimation. It gives players an idea of how much time they have left before the next match.

Less needing to travel to get to menus.

[vale mason]

I think most important things are 1.UI.2.server problems. 3Nintendo switch problems 4.bots

from what I learned from this thread and others

[soft needle]

A streamlining of Banan OS to deliver it all, and have the in-game elements 'mostly' be extra ways to access those menus. One exception could be the inventory selling. Oh. And MTN network.

I wasn't aware that Nintendo Switch was having issues.

Bots: I'm not sure that's a quantity problem so much as it might be a quality problem.

Single player games are filled with AIs that players don't complain about.

[lone rover]

Player customization in BananOS would be very nice, although maybe there's other issues for that. But we do already have the shop as both a BananOS thing and a tangible thing in the world, so the precedent is there.

[soft needle]

Not saying the current AIs are bad, but they are somewhat formulaic.

[soft needle]

The only big issue it causes is immersion breaking - but an instant pop-up changing curtain or similar could help with that.

[ivory ore]

I've noticed that bots are a bit slow and silly somewhat often

Silly as in there's moments where any real player would've killed me but the bot did not

I'm not even that good at the game yet but I already feel like I'm firmly above bots

[vale mason]

usually single player games have some story or something that is interesting enough for players to keep them in

multiplayer games should have players

as shrimple as that

[ivory ore]

Good point, but we kinda don't have a big enough player base to have every match be full of them

That's why I'm actually fine with bots

[vale mason]

bots are dumb enough to die to corner ambush

well not really ambush since they know you are there

[ivory ore]

(I also don't think I see most other problems people talk about but could be because I only started playing after the saw update)

(for example I'm ok with the bananOS ui)

[soft needle]

SAW could be said to be the single player content added - but I'm talking about in-match AI behaviors. A little added unpredictability - randomness - and even silliness - like the odd one-liner or emote response, perhaps easter egg like mutual standoff, if afforded.

[lone rover]

I never posted it but I once had an idea for bot "personalities," where bots could have one of a few playstyles to make them a little more interesting.

[vale mason]

yeah that is an old concept as almost gaming itself

but good

you should definitely suggest it if it wasn't

[lone rover]

I'll need to see what other posts on bots have been made. Worst case scenario I bring an idea someone else already had back into the spotlight for a bit.

[pale slate]

social game being focused on the full social aspect (the wider community as a whole) - and party game being mostly within the party (max 4)

[vale mason]

hmm now i get the difference. but why the update made the game into party game more?

people don't play squads more

or go around doing quests in groups. they usually do that alone

actually they do a lot of things alone

[ivory ore]

Can confirm

Tbh one criticism I could give the main story questline is that the player character is treated like the only one advancing the story

While everyone actually does the same quests

In the lore the player character is also probably treated as the one that did a lot of the things? Not sure, but caught a glimpse of that in lore discussions

[soft needle]

Oh, no worries. Some suggestions get suggested a fair number of times (eg. ranked or flamethrowers or respawn mechanics). Even if you suggest the same thing, odds are that it won't be in the same way.

[ivory ore]

(not done with the story quests yet myself though so no spoilers past the quest where you need to ||steal the finished tape for the saw history project|| pls)

But that's probably off topic

[lone rover]

One personal gripe I have with a lot of the quests is being treated like I just got hatched from the cloning vat for the first time ever recently, but I also realize how big an undertaking it'd be to have modified dialogue for veteran players, so I don't consider that something big enough to change.

[deft tusk]

one potential solution i've seen suggested for matchmaking quite a few times that could work is just extending the queue time to give players more time to fill the bot slots

there can even be an algorithm that automatically adjusts queue time based on the game's activity so it automatically loads games in faster when there are a lot of players; that way pixile wouldn't have to manually change queue times to adjust for the playerbase growing/shrinking

i think i speak for most players when i say that longer queue times would be worth playing in games with more actual players

also i have a feeling the game does already have some sort of auto-start that triggers when enough players join a lobby, but it could still be adjusted so that inactive lobbies have a larger window for players to queue in

[pale slate]

I'm willing to contest this purely on the basis of the shrinking in attention span. people don't want 5min lobby waits because it extends the gameplay loop ridiculously much- the problem lies in the diversifying of the playerbase; people were forced to play BR or LTM (1/2) which resulted in a decent split, but now the people are split into BR or LTM or LSAW (or Hamball ) leading to longer wait times and less people overall.

extending the core gameplay loop even further would give such an adverse effect to the game - I think It can be mitigated by shortening the queue up and enlongating the initial 60 sec loading time on victory island (basically like it was but with extra steps)

[deft tusk]

yeah that's fair, i don't actually know how other players feel. i personally would be fine waiting an extra couple minutes but it could def have adverse effects

[vale mason]

Im gonna say that im not gonna play 5 minutes waiting games, or bot games

[deft tusk]

it would just be nice to have a way to play games with players atp

[pale slate]

Before the update you would load into a match and have pre-match talks with other people, then play a match, and then get back into a new lobby (usually with the same people) - now you Load into a SAWL, talk to people, play a game, and you load into another SAWL - thus becoming restricted to your party for continuance in games. (less community, more party)

[deft tusk]

also instead of elongating the loading time, i think queueing should transfer you to the queue lobby immediately instead of letting you sit in the social hub for 2+ minutes

[frigid nexus]

I don't want to wait for 5 minutes for queue and then die early game in solo

[deft tusk]

that way you can be in the lobby with players you are going to be up against (like it used to be)

the reason its not like that is so players can use the 2 minute downtime to do quest stuff but

i dont really like that idea and its kinda forcing players to do SAW stuff even if its not their priority

my personal reason for playing is BR (its super animal royale after all)

[ivory ore]

I think the only way to do it rn is to participate in #🏆events. Removing bots from regular matches would suck because then it'd be like 3-6 players

[deft tusk]

but currently, the only way to get more players in your lobby is to have longer queue times

[deft tusk]

this is fair but events are like a couple times a week and i would prefer to play the game more often than that

[ivory ore]

Also fair

[soft needle]

It's partially an opacity issue. If people don't know what modes are being participated in, how many, and when the next match is due... then that doesn't help.

[deft tusk]

yeah i think that can easily be fixed too with number displays

[worldly fiber]

I can't help but wonder if this would lead to further starvation of unpopular modes...

[lofty plover]

Just give me instant queues against bots and I'm happy

[deft tusk]

i dont wanna fight against bots or i wouldnt play an online game

[lofty plover]

Sometimes I just want to play with my friend and chill.

[vale mason]

offline coop mode?

[lofty plover]

But this also proves the point that you'll never please everyone.
Currently waiting 2+mins for a bot lobby regardless is too much

[pale slate]

12 people and 52 bots is just not a good mix

(just joined a solos round after a 1:15 wait)

And that waiting part is fine, but the 2~3 min for less people in squads is ridiculous work

[vale mason]

it's hard to please everyone when game invented over 9000 modes but has only 300 players. the carpet pulling is just too intense

(figuratively speaking)

it's hard to then go back and block some modes

[pale slate]

No but this is something you could've released in a scale to bolster player numbers before dividing them among modes

[deft tusk]

offline co-op is just another mode to split the playerbase even further imo

its a cool idea!

but

concerning when lobbies are as small as they are

[lofty plover]

Partially because the social hub as well. The concept is fine but in reality it's people farming bugs/fish/pearls and then usually people being weird in the welcome center lol

[vale mason]

would you prefer quarterlies to focus on one mode per update, or on all modes per update?

sorry that wasnt meant to be a reply

that was question to all

[soft needle]

An unpopular mode would be starved of players anyway. Knowing that there are a couple players waiting to play a mode might inspire more players to join.

[pale slate]

Honestly adding a (first open match) queue wouldn't be a bad idea

[soft needle]

I think that incremental changes to all modes is good and helps keep things from stagnating - with a less incremental change in one mode as a focus.

[soft needle]

As an aside - this + an element of staggered match windows could result in funnelling players into fewer modes than available. Perhaps the unpopular modes might have windows that don't coincide with high popularity mode windows.

[soft needle]

An example of an incremental change would be swapping out the uncommon dartgun for rare for medic I in SvR. Doesn't need to be substantial.

[vale mason]

maybe better all in in one mode?

for one quarterly, then other quarterly other mode

[magic pewter]

so you can not sell iteams on a PS% or Xbox? is that correct?

[bitter belfry]

Do you have your (Use / Pick up) key rebinded?

Here's a solution that solved someone else's issue with selling items.
#💬general message

[wispy pumice]

anyone else think it's a little hard to pet the pet animals now?

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, it is

[rare whale]

Yes

[wispy pumice]

i keep forgetting to mention it cuz

i havent seen as many

[rare whale]

Maybe they should change it to a diffrent button to pet them

[wispy pumice]

also i know it's a hot take but i wish the joes in the bwoking dead could pet... at least peep or the farm pets

i dont see how they cant

[rare whale]

Yea

Its not a very big detail

[bitter belfry]

I know that a long time ago I suggested this kind of lobby interaction with players, but that was before mini animals could be petted, lol
#🧩feedback message

[rare whale]

But it something that wouldn't hurt to be added

[wispy pumice]

i just never imagined it was a bug but i suppose it wasn't intended

but i'm just yapping about this stuff cuz i'm really tired and had a long day

[bitter belfry]

You mean mini animals that are asleep in gas in TBD mode?

[wispy pumice]

i thought petting would be easy lol and instead i'm triyng my best to do it

[wispy pumice]

no, when they are still alive

[bitter belfry]

Oh, I thought joes could pet them

Maybe it was changed?

[wispy pumice]

it was something i distinctly remembered

they aren't allowed to do certain things of course

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

[wispy pumice]

but like, the animals are never grewed out or faded

like guns or ammo would be

so i assumed... okay so they should be able to pet

but it doesn't hurt to play test it again

okay it seems the land animals if they're alive u can do it.... unsure about living player pets

it would take a miricale for me to try it anyway lol but anyway i must have been thinking of some other thing

but if i were to guess i t hink ui cant pet enemies' pets in game

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

[wispy pumice]

OH!

i know what it was

you can't ping campfires

and some stuff like that

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, I think joes should be able to interact with them, since joes can use campfire

Despite them being able to auto-regenerate health xD

[wispy pumice]

not only that, bnut i think it should be a team wide ping, like with all pings for items and guns on a ping, no matter the mode

if ur on a team they should know someone's pinging a gun or something

i think it's cuz for some reason it only shows the message in squad chat so they never thought to do it if it wasn't like "a quick chat with a symbol like help, go here, caution, etc

but IIRC... doesn't output a symbnol on the map anyway? i know armor shows an armor icon for the ping, so I assume there's no reason for teams to not see those

but just to be clear that's like pre-SAW stuff that's still the way it was before

[severe moat]

No one can pet player pets during actual matches. It would be a nightmare if you could.

Imagine someone missing picking up a gun because your mini chicken is standing in the way.

[slender drift]

Honestly, i just came back to the game recently. i suck at it now lol. But the new SAW update had me hooked for so long that i beat every main quest in a month. I still hop on randomly when im bored and i just wanna play something. I will say, i havent been hopping on as much since i've been running into players who tbag and emote on me when i get killed frequently.

[soft needle]

You can probably report such players - though it would be nice to be able to filter that out outright.

[vale mason]

im not sure if that's an offense tho

[lone rover]

It's a bit feisty of them but I don't think it breaks any rules

[vale mason]

i remember the times when laugh emote was different

i guess when they took that away they found another way

[lone rover]

They always will, that's just how people are

[vale mason]

I almost got happy for the anouncment, but then I got the joke

[severe moat]

I dunno, the other day someone took like ten selfies (the emote) on me while I was bleeding out in squads and honestly it was pretty hilarious.

I don't think there's really any issue with kill-emoting.

Now the other day I did see someone using an emote in the overworld in such a way as to suggest an adult behavior and that I reported.

[halcyon lily]

Unfortunately it doesn't fall under any identifiable offense, that behavior is built into the game at this point.
As mentioned above though, NSFW usage of emotes is reportable.

[vale mason]

i just seen a video of a guy being tea-bagged and selfied by whole squad and it's just bad taste. Then again I can't see it probably in animal court "my defendant wasn't t-baging, just walking over"

so i doubt that suggested adult behaviours are banned that you reported

[deft tusk]

not that i support using emotes as taunts, but it would be silly for mods to take action against a player for using an emote they paid for

[true steeple]

true it's just like the old debate about the old laughing emote that was considered toxic

[deft tusk]

yeah and now there's crying.... which i love the cry emote but haha

[vale mason]

yeah nothing you can do

t-bag emote when?

[urban tartan]

Having to wait in a 2 minute Que for duos on a Friday, Saturday, or even Sunday during prime hours, for it only to end up being just the 2 of us and maybe 8 other REAL players with 10-15 seconds left on the clock and then the rest of the 54 “players” being BOTS… the split player base ruined the BR aspect of the game.. like what… happened.. it turned into Fortnite over night with the update with bots being 80-90% for Solo’s, Duos and even Squads.. and I have clips to prove it on different weekends including today :/

[urban merlin]

Literally why most people i know have left the game

[urban tartan]

I gave it a final shot today along with my duo that have almost 400 hours clocked in and we’ve given up on it and put up our honest review on steam.. it’s a shame because it’s been our favorite BR for the last few years T-T

[urban merlin]

Felt that, player numbers keep dropping and dropping that BR needs desperate love the next update asap

[vale mason]

yeah it gets worse each week

special forces (elephant) seals are on it's way tho

[urban merlin]

that won't help

[vale mason]

maybe it will have some quickfixes

[urban merlin]

if its only new animals it won't help

[vale mason]

so fortnite has bots as well? i thought its popular game

[urban merlin]

that's not the point

people have left the game cuz BR has no new content, and that resulted in lobbies being emptier, which have also caused more people to leave

[vale mason]

that also, but current situation is also accelarated by players being split among more modes

[vale mason]

I was asking about fortnite sincecaspuhz mentioned it

[urban merlin]

the split wouldn't be an issue is we had those players from the initial day

[urban tartan]

Fortnite has had a bot issue for YEARS. That’s why they added a ranked mode

Ranked mode = no bots

[urban merlin]

I was playing solos as the update came out, once the servers stabilized because there were so many people it actually crashed them for some time, each lobby had 50 players

svr? full, bwoking? full, battle royale? full

[vale mason]

so it wasnt a popular game? i never played it

[urban tartan]

I played it Day 1 back in September of 2017 and can happily say the first 2 years it was all 100 players being REAL players. The feeling of getting a win was intense and fresh…No bots….Then around the 3rd year they added AI/bots and it ruined the feeling of winning a game and hasn’t been like that since then. It just turned into a more polished Roblox game with there custom modes/maps that anybody can create and get paid for

[vale mason]

so it was actually a good move to open LTMs at that time

[urban merlin]

because there were 2300 players

[urban tartan]

This is also true the first weekend it was full lobbies but that 2nd weekend.. it has declined ever since

[urban merlin]

the social features are neat, but the BR aspect? the same as it has been for 3 years

players kept leaving, then the void they left also made other players leave as the game felt more empty, and we're now on lower numbers before the update.

[urban tartan]

The domino effect is real because by word of mouth.. unlesss you like animal crossing and not interested in the BR. Don’t even touch it

[vale mason]

im not sure if its similar to animal crosing

more like grinding some quests

though i never played animal crosing but imagined it being more cozy

[wispy pumice]

I think they have a similar vibe

[urban tartan]

There’s fishing.. and quests.. NPC’s in both.. I could go on but that’s just 3.. they are similar lol

[vale mason]

then why people play animal crosing but not SAW?

[wispy pumice]

but if we were to get ranked mode in this game then it would be better than animal crossing no doubt, for having both types of games in one for both the cozy vibe and the competitive vibe 🙂

[lone rover]

I feel like those are such broad concepts they don't necessarily make them similar

[urban tartan]

A ranked mode with NO BOTS.. just follow the Fortnite formula.. it’s THERE

[vale mason]

fortinte probably has more players tho, to make ranked without bots

[wispy pumice]

well I don't know about the bots, that's not really my major concern, just saying that having the two different vibes in the game will satisfy two distinct groups...

[vale mason]

ranked won't cure cancer, althought it will help

[urban tartan]

If the devs would’ve put the money into making new maps and or content around the BR, instead of updating the same one for years and maybe sponsoring some streamers to play. It would do wonders.. I discovered this game from a popular streamer named Lirik Years ago during his sub Sunday random game day. But no it went from Super anima ROYALE.. to Super animal WORLD.. tssk tssk

[vale mason]

i really doubt that ranked will bring everyone aboard. it's about many things

[wispy pumice]

I suspected that was what you were gonna say, and that's GREAT, because I bet many people felt the same

(Caspuhz)

[urban merlin]

MANY people have been suggesting ranked for years

and the people in this server would keep telling them "nuh uh this is a casual furry game uwu"

and we went from 2300 players to 400

[vale mason]

I know, myself included. I'm just saying it won't be enough, in hypotethical situation that it would be implemented. It takes more fresh ideas to make game interesting.

[wispy pumice]

well not to beat a dead horse, but this is the thread you should read to get in on the push to ranked mode

[urban tartan]

Yeah this game has been out for awhile and I only have 400 hours.. I’ve met others with over 1,500 and they suggested a ranked in forums years ago lol

[urban merlin]

add ranked, add new guns, just revitalize BR

because as of now

a lot of players feel they have nothing to do in this game

and even less when each lobby has only 10 players.

[wispy pumice]

In the hyperlink above there's other links to other threads, so feel free to go deep diving on the topic.

I also suggest... um... this thread, and I know there's at least one more I'm forgetting but yeah basically go there lol

[urban tartan]

There sitting in the open world at spawn dancing and having conversations that can be VERY ODD and concerning or just simply catching bugs or fish. It’s no longer a BR it’s an “experience”

[urban merlin]

someone even made a thread about more moderationa s people have been saying weird things in lobby

[vale mason]

well that's nice but why so little of them? if that was what majority wanted, then why not many people on servers?

[urban tartan]

It’s not so little the lobbies are full of them 50+ players everytime in the social hub. There just not playing BR anymore

[urban merlin]

Because to put it bluntly, This server has become it's own echo chamber bubble where most players are casuals that haven't interacted with other sides of the community, and refuse to listen to them with the excuse this is a "furry casual game" and ranked would do nothing but harm the game.

The people who speak about ranked in an ill way here never interacted with the competitive side, i'll always ask them if they interacted with it only to recieve a no in return.

[vale mason]

overall there is no inscrease in number of overall players tho

[wispy pumice]

To be fair, cute animals and cute MMO stuff is pretty cute, and people will be more likely to go that route than the adrenaline-pumping, blood-thirsty BR alternative

[urban merlin]

and the majority of people that funded this game were for the adrenaline-pumping, blood-thirsty BR aspect

[wispy pumice]

But, we're talking a totally different group of people, and also don't forget how much time was put into the update on this side, too; it makes a big difference

well there's actually no blood, so technically just gun-thirsty lol

[urban merlin]

point still stands and the evidence is there

from 2300 update day, to 400 players

[vale mason]

I'm not sure if the story is as simple as you present. but that's what my thread is for. to listen to many stories and make own opinion

[urban tartan]

When the time comes where I can join a semi full lobby and have friendly banter before the game starts and then when the game ends being able to que up right away and have a chance to get into a game with the same group of people I just went against to try and win again after winning OR loosing.. I will sadly not return. That was my favorite part honestly

[vale mason]

there is a saying, don't mistake correlation with causes. or something like that. it's just an assumption, that all people that left wanted BR. maybe they wanted something interesting, not neceserily BR. but SAW failed to deliver with lackluster(in my opinion) mini-games

[wispy pumice]

@urban tartan I really recommend you read that "Potential compromise for a ranked SAR mode that both comp and nom-comp players can get behind" thread.. it may be up your alley considering your point of view here.

[urban merlin]

the majority of people i talk to left because BR hasn't recieved any major update, it's the same as it's been for 3 years.

2300 to 400

point stands.

[vale mason]

the people i talk to too, but that's not an evidence. I am in a bubble people wise too, when it comes to who i choose for friends.

so we share common traits lets say

[urban merlin]

not evidence?

you know what

not gonna entertain that

i'll only say this

[vale mason]

fair, lets just agree to disagree then, unless you convince me

[urban tartan]

I’ll give it a shot with my duo and go over it together. There just as sad as I am overall

[vale mason]

yes, I know of the charts

i didnt mean evidence that people left. that i know of

[wispy pumice]

To be honest, @urban merlin I also suggest you do the same, but I also want you to know that last weekend I arrived at a very similar conclusion as you, even was bold enough to say directly in a reply to Chegg [in this thread](#1456591004273606826 message).

[urban tartan]

Before the update there would be around 2-4 duos lobby’s that would be full on the weekends and Friday in the afternoon till sundown and could go up against the same group of around 180 people.. that has disappeared overnight

[wispy pumice]

I don't think though that it's actually that dramatic though

But what you're saying is just as bad - you're suggesting that the playerbase is completely being replaced with different players altogether

I don't think that's really how it's going to go down

do you?

I have faith in Pixile, that they'll make things work one way or another for the competitive players, I guarantee it

and BR as a whole, don't forget

[urban tartan]

The type of players has been heavily divided because of this update and that’s facts. Why not you try and Que up into a non-fill game right now in either solos, duos or squads and see if you can get more than 10 after a 2 min Que .. before the bots load in at the 5 second mark. It’s really sad to see but I have some hope they can somehow fix it with some miracle

[vale mason]

btw VicPariah what are your reasons for not playing? or do you play the game rn?

it's not lack of ranked, since you weren't interested in playing ranked yourself as far as i remember

[wispy pumice]

I haven't played it nearly as much as I did during the CRISPRmas event

I just find it hard to keep up with the pace of all the kids that play now

they always invite me all the time literally the second I join, often there's a language barrier

and when I have less time because of no more vacation, I'm often coming in late when I have little energy anyway

and also I finished the main quest line this past weekend anyway at the end of my vacation break so, yeah.

[urban tartan]

The skill gap isn’t that high tho.. it’s just knowing how to properly roll, know your weapons and how to use them, and know when to engage and disengage a fight it’s not fortnite/COD/ or battlefield?

It’s the easiest BR out there lol

[vale mason]

well, some people here are just crappy at playing video games, excuse me for saying that

hence the "please ban AK" threads since 5 years

[urban tartan]

Oh I have met a few people on this game before that made me chuckle so I know.. my favorite is not knowing the dart fly can also heal your teammates and or bounce if it’s purple or gold 😄 lmao

[vale mason]

I could never be good at counter strike starting as a newbie, with sar its not that hard

[wispy pumice]

So I made this other thread before, but it might help to simply paste the OP here anyway, because I think it's hard for people on mobile to switch between threads.

@vale mason, is it fine if I quote my OP in here, or nah?

[vale mason]

about what topic?

[wispy pumice]

The ranked mode suggestion I wrote

[vale mason]

then please insert link if you wish to

but not paste since its too much of offtopic

(not paste whole suggestion here)

[wispy pumice]

Alright, I wish I could use AI to shorten it to 25 words or less, heh

Oh, it reaches the character limit so I can't do it even if I wanted to

Oh that's interesting:

Simplify ranked mode by making it event-based, weekly, and in-game only, focusing on core gameplay, to help Pixile implement the feature efficiently.

[vale mason]

alright

[wispy pumice]

Or, as my therapist once told me, "keep things stupidly simple, and you won't ever fall astray from your plan". Simple implementation that doesn't harm the main group of players that you see. Ideally, what everyone wants is more BR players to have a good time, that's all.

I'm one to talk though, since I still struggle to keep things simple half the time lol

[vale mason]

tbh im still not satifsyid, i want more people to share their stories so that we know what's wrong

[urban merlin]

low numbers thats why

[vale mason]

it's like a secondary blow now tbh. that's always the case

I would group people into 2 groups A"the picky ones" those that leave the earliest" and B "thos that leave when there are no players left"

there is no B death without A death and A decides

[urban merlin]

those who left the earliest was because of no new BR content

[wispy pumice]

Also, I changed the title of my thread once again to reflect what it actually is instead of "potential compromise"

[vale mason]

then we could close the thread and that would be wonderful finish to the story. but actually people reported many different things here

in my opinion group A is more varied

some people even left because they didnt like new wardrobe

yes, such people exist

some cant connect anymore, due to server, system, nintendo switch errors, etc.

with us

some can't be bothered to wait for that small window frame of 10 seconds when you need to click the ready button

some people hate that there is less talking between matches since people just go around doing quests

[lone rover]

I remember on day 1 I think someone got so mad at the tutorial being unskippable they left

[vale mason]

yeah that's true

[bitter belfry]

This is why UX is very important

[vale mason]

people are a bit special here also. neurodivrsified as my old SAR aquantice used to say about them

so they are picky about stuff normal people wouldnt care about

[lone rover]

And on the other end some people (I'm in this camp) are so non-picky they'd probably stick around unless the game literally became everything it isn't.

[vale mason]

that's true, that's group C that stays even when A and B are long dead

they would be fine killing bots everyday

like solitaire

[lone rover]

I mean, I do prefer killing players and if it was truly all bots I might quit.

But I also am content with fighting players in the final circle mostly

That said the game should, of course, attempt to appeal to group A as best can be. Since that group staying prevents the others from having issues.

[vale mason]

yup, it's like snowball effect

[wispy pumice]

I get that. That's why I kept thinking... hey, we need to compromise or else! Or, we need to have some sort of mediation between group A and group B!

Nobody has to take any side. This shouldn't be about putting one person aside and saying whether or not they're in A or B. I'm in neither group. I will never be in a group. I am a pariah, after all 🙂

[vale mason]

uhh i think you got it mixed up a bit, about the groups, but nevermind that

[lone rover]

Well, in this context there wouldn't be sides really. Group A is ALL the various specific complaints, Group B is people leaving because OTHERS left, and Group C is... just sticking around in general. By these Groups, making Group A happy inherently makes Group B happy and C is probably still happier than otherwise.

It IS probably worth mentioning that members of Group B could potentially become a NEW Group A if they don't like the solutions to please Group A but that's getting awfully deep

[wispy pumice]

Oh I see, I don't know what I am thinking. I don't have the same focus in the eveninngs. I am also a visual learner so I would probably understand it as a venn diagram

[vale mason]

that would be complcating things lol. let's just say that those that dislike ranked and could leave because of that are in group A

to keep things simple

[vale mason]

ill make you a drawing

[vale mason]

I guess we are closing in on C era

that orange dudes are foxes btw

[wispy pumice]

Oh I see now. Yeah, so going by that diagram, you could say that I am in Groups A and C. When I said that I don't "take sides", I mean that within the context of group A.

[lone rover]

Maybe I am kinda group B. But with high tolerance. Give me a final circle that's actual players most of the time, and some goofing around in the hub, and I am happy.

[sand dragon]

It’s a combination of factors

One thing (that really isn’t a fault of SAR) is that a lot of modern games are constantly vying for your attention via constant events and updates

Another issue is that there is a threshold where there is simply no major milestones left to accomplish

You reach rank 300, you get white on all weapons, you got the black pearl

[wispy pumice]

The diagram doesn't include the groups that would leave or ties people who choose to leave into groups. if it did, then it would be too large of a diagram

[sand dragon]

Now what?
You can get all animal breeds, reach rank 1000 or clear out the shop but those are the absurdist completion requirements

[soft needle]

Ideally a game wouldn't depend on cosmetics at the end of a fishing rod to justify playtime.

[wispy pumice]

I believe it is already agreed that there are many reasons for people choosing not to stay

[sand dragon]

I agree, but I was highlighting reasons why people may not return

Some people are just carrot and stick motivated

[soft needle]

By that I mean that it is ideal for the experience that a game brings a player being the reason why they play.

[wispy pumice]

We just are coming up with ways to incentivize people to stay

And with that in mind I agree

More updates, frequent updates are good

Events are good too - that is established in my thread

[sand dragon]

Even just having more seasonal weapons would do wonders

[soft needle]

Events bring a flow of cosmetics. As do passes and limited time offers.

[wispy pumice]

And to be clear, we aren't talking about the traditional events we've seen for seasonal stuff

[soft needle]

Okay.

[wispy pumice]

Like, ranked events, quest free, no grinding... Just people playing with one goal in mind: to get first place

[sand dragon]

The issue is that while the core content is strong (Royale, SAW vs Rebellion, Bwoking), there is simply not enough ‘content’ to diffuse out into when modes feel stale which is why people really want Mystery Mode to return

[soft needle]

In terms of priority, the most important thing is probably to streamline the ways players are able to get into matches such as to match pre-SAW convenience levels. All sources of friction should be reduced. Grinding kept reasonable or truly optional (achievment, not quest).

[sand dragon]

This is further exacerbated by how simplistic the bots are, given how frequent they can be

The bots are too rudimentary and easy to bait/kill

They walk to you in a straight line, do not attempt to dodge attacks and will never improve their gear

[soft needle]

Also to reduce most waiting times, where reasonable.

[sand dragon]

Having the bots equip powerups, upgrade their weaponry and attempt to dodge attacks would go a long way in keeping the players engaged

[wispy pumice]

Now we're talking

[soft needle]

You may find #1458896281182273640 message of interest with regard bots.

[wispy pumice]

Haha

Done and done

I wanna add that I have no idea why the bot code seems like it hasn't been touched since 2018

But, I have seen it a common practice not to touch bot code except in strategy games

[soft needle]

It has been touched a couple times. But it's probably more difficult to update

[wispy pumice]

And I get that adding more to it could cause potential lag

If it's too complicated

[soft needle]

Makes sense.

Perhaps room for exploration though.

[wispy pumice]

In fact I feel like Civilization bots take FOREVER

So many decisions

Here it's about how deep their "brain* is with movement

If they add more complexity, it means adding in map information in

So the bots can see it

That is a potential point of attack for hacks to find out things they shouldn't

I suppose, you'd have to REALLY pick and choose what about the bot you'd rather them be smarter about. Is it just that they are storm troopers? Cuz, that could be an easy fix

Sometimes they are pretty decent shots. They also have zero ping, of course. So, technically, they should always have the advantage based on that alone

[soft needle]

Unless they were to be player hosted.

Client side.

In which case different players could have one or more AIs associated with them - defaulting to server side AI when lapsing.

[wispy pumice]

You mean like different AI personalities? I have absolutely seen that done before.

Often pretty effectively too.

But that stuff is SUPER complicated.. goes way over my head lol

[soft needle]

Actually did suggest that very thing a long time ago. Probably floating around.

But I'm referring to more complex and therefore computationally heavy AI being handled by various players' devices. Some AIs would be 'enhanced' in this way while the others would be regular.

[wispy pumice]

Yeah again like I said though it's super complicated and honestly, that could take months to get something even testable

Great as a long-term goal, but certainly not the "hail Mary", "place all your bets on this working the first time" kind of feature request.

[soft needle]

Oh no no. Short term this is likely what needs to be looked into. The increase in friction could explain why some players who played before might no longer do so.

So smooth the edges (including direct-to-match SAW bypasses). Refine that which has already been delivered. Reunite customization and labs to Banan OS.

[wispy pumice]

Gotcha. Yeah, we definitely need to write some community-sided list of priorities for these features. I know check marks are good and all, but I often find they don't represent the priority, only the popularity of it.

Or sometimes not even thst, lol

[soft needle]

Different players have different ideas of what is needed (and a few of us write more stuff and we don't always do the best job of indicating what we think is most important). It's a lot to process.

[wispy pumice]

Logan is doing his best I am sure.

[soft needle]

They are.

[wispy pumice]

You've been on this thread since it first opened, right?

[soft needle]

I do not recall. Wouldn't be surprised. 😄

Yes, close enough.

[ivory ore]

Makes me want to talk about my experience with bots for a moment. Yes, they're kinda simple and I'd appreciate them being a bit harder but removing them completely is a bad idea I feel like (at least as someone who only joined after the world expansion released and didn't experience the apparently-good old days)

I don't think I would've gotten decent at this game if I was facing off against players with hundreds of hours all the time, they would've steamrolled me regardless of whether I try a certain improvement or not. The latter is kinda what I've been experiencing in team fortress 2 and I kinda ended up quitting it as of recently

[deft tusk]

bots should only be removed in ranked/competitive modes if they ever add any

[ivory ore]

I do agree with that

[wispy pumice]

my thoughts exactly

[hearty current]

the expansion is really nice (even if queueing into a match and getting to victory island are kind of a hassle since all the pros are back) but i'm too lazy to log into the game lmao

[wispy pumice]

I generally have no problem getting to victory island, but it really just depends on the time of day. I'm usually exhausted by the time I get home from work. So, I just grind other modes if I'm there. Plus with how many unused magnets I have anyway, lol.

Bascially, I won't play BR if I don't think I'll be likely to get enough DNA to make it worthwhile

This has been something I did even way before this update, during the summer and fall

IMO it's a small thing; I don't think many people will be too lazy to use magnets.. but that animal quest makes me want to get 500 animals so... yeah lol

I'd say it just makes me want to only play BR if I play well

[ivory ore]

I like to treat these huge quests as achievements, not quests

[wispy pumice]

Oooor, try to hide away until the third gas phase

[ivory ore]

Aka "If I happen to get that - cool, but I won't grind for it specifically"

(same with the gold pearl quest)

[wispy pumice]

But it's always so boring to do this so I avoid it typically unless I absolutely need to do some quest or something

You have a point, but I have poor inhibition

but anyway yea I don't wanna go on this too long, gotta shift focus back to work

[true steeple]

I don't know if the update automatically put Cross platforms option OFF. But it should be removed. The game cannot have separated lobbies with that low amount of players

[wispy pumice]

ideally, it should be done dynamically based on average number of players per day, I take it this can be done during the daily resets

ideally, at least. with the amount of players there are now, I agree it's not worth it

like hamster racing for instance

by the way, what platform are you seeing less players on? @true steeple

[true steeple]

I am on PC. Crossplatforms option is only available on consoles. Putting it off will put you only with people that are on consoles

[wispy pumice]

so yeah I just think... maybe the idea is backwards... maybe PC players need cross-platform more than the console players do

welp, it's wierd u can see if an offline player is cross platform or steam, but you can't see their lvl

i'd rather people be able to see the previous convo so i'm gonna do some message cleanup

[soft needle]

Perhaps have a console specific quest that shows up after x matches to try turning on cross play. Leaving it to the player to choose if they want to continue with it

[hollow elbow]

i wanted to talk about this in General but dukey didnt like me linking this thread as a reference there so ill keep this brief, because i dont want to get off track/get away from the feedback discussion

im both happy and scared to see others concerns on the declining playerbase. seeing almost all bot lobbies in BR - and ever svr/bwoking really hurts me bc this game means sooo much to me and it sucks seeing it like this

Part of me wants to go back to pre-SAW sar, but i know thats silly because SAW has things i like in it

sorry if this isnt benefitting to this thread i just wanted to put it out there. im really praying for more improvements on the things discussed here.... i still have Faith in pixile

like, i always said im the kind of guy to get an update that only has new breeds/cosmetics and id be happy. im still like that but its gotten to a Point where im like. bummed when i cue a lobby and theres only like 10 players before it starts filling with bots aghhh

enough of that, dont want to flood the discussions more than i already have 👍

[stoic crest]

2 main things, i wish we could directly queue as we used to, game modes have taken a population hit, 2ndly my friends and me in asean and rural china have been having connnection issue since 2022. The server is not so good anymore and unplayable very often. Its why im in the hub not playing game modes and many of my friends quit already

[uneven musk]

I just saw this thread and I've not touched SAR since the update, so I'm here to also pretty much rant a bit to answer the main question posed for this thread. Afterall, I've spent 1,200 hours on this game since 2020 going on and off at certain points so I feel like its just alright that I put in effort to type down my few cents here rather than give a "not recommended" review on Steam.

To start, I got into SAR because it was and has been (as I have known it) a great game to turn my brain off after a loooong day. Interacting with the least toxic game community I know in lobby and doing silly dances were aspects of the game that hooked me further into SAR. Simple joys = Simple pleasures. This, as well as the main gameplay (which was and had been ought; as it was marketed for the longest time to be a battle royale) were driving factors that earned SAR the "This is my coping mechanism" badge of approval. The community is very small, generally friendly. Toxicity is minimal albeit some annoying randos once in awhile. All in all, pre-SAW SAR was a great safe space for me especially if I wasn't in the mood to play bigger games in my library.

Now with this personal context, here is my criticism: The first thought that came to mind after the SAW mega-update was, "I am very overstimulated from all this"- from the new and overly complicated nav and drastically different UI that basically ruined my user experience to the whole NPC side-quests thing. It was as if the devs worked hard to overload SAR with everything to the point that it felt like the main point of the game got reduced to almost nothing. Why are there too many buttons in the menu? Why do the affordances on the interactions look janky and flat? Why do I have to go from point A to point B just to open up another menu with its own array of buttons? *Where did everyone even go? *The whole lobby system and countdown before spawning in with a team didn't make sense to me anymore. As a user, I didn't want to re-learn anything. I shouldn't have to re-learn anything at all. Everything was unfamiliar, too unfamiliar that I couldn't think of any other game of this caliber with a general interface this unnecessarily complicated. All this, further complicated by unstable servers, ultimately made this once-simple and adorable battle royale game an unnecessary and big frustration to deal with. Not to mention that the already small community got way thinned out to a point that it felt more like co-op gameplay with randos. So yes, after that, I didn't take long staying on to explore.

I read through some of the comments in this thread to think that every assurance of a "Wait and see for new features to come in" yadda yadda won't work until devs figure out the baseline of what they want to happen with SAR beyond bloating it and giving it a bit of everything to try to please everyone. I've not played recently but if people are saying that BR lobbies are bot filled because everyone is doing minigames, I find that to be a red flag. That said, not until the devs figure out a grounded vision and direction of what SAR is and what its going to be, I can't say that I would be returning anytime soon.

[vale mason]

a valuable feeback, even if one that not everyone relates wtih(like me, because I learn a lot of stuff in video games usually so new UI doenst bother me)

[vale mason]

agree here. though pleasing everyone would work if everyone was pleased, so it's more complicated imho

[hollow elbow]

I honestly agree with you. And I hate that I do LOL
I still play every day (though past few days has been hard cuz of the server issues)
I was very overwhelmed when the update came out. And I honestly am kinda sad that BR and stuff is on the sidelines a bit now. Like. It's super animal royale . Fishing and bug catching is fun but egghhh the NPCs and stuff distracts from the core aspect - the royale

The UI too, I agree. MTN stations I am not too fond of. And bananos, not a fan of that either...

But it's all just our personal opinions I suppose! Hopefully devs take these into account because if sar ever dies I'll die tbh. This game and it's community means way to much to me lmao

[vale mason]

It's even funnier that the most apolegetic "wait and see for new features to come" guy that atacked people that had negative opinion on SAR has most upvoted negative review on steam now.

[hollow elbow]

I just feel bad voicing my concerns becaus like
I don't know how id fix it
I don't know how id fix the issue of "wahhh no updates" before SAW came out

[hollow elbow]

I'm so scared to read the reviews on steam haha I need to though

[uneven musk]

I do UI/UX stuff so this was the biggest peeve hahaha

[uneven musk]

And I get you! But I also think that it is because there is much sentimentality to this game that concerns like this should be voiced out. For what it is, the lobbies are what made SAR so its a question Im posing to the devs- why would you kill off what gave the game its heart?

[vale mason]

i think the aim was to have more heart, be more social. unfortunately sometimes, road to hell is paved with good intentions

(hell for some people, since there are people pleased with the change)

(objectively tho, it's less social and many people say that, 64 people on large island isnt social)

[uneven musk]

Thats a pretty diplomatic statement hahaha but the problem with that is for every product (which in this case is this game) they'd have certain statistics that they should be aware of and be grounded on before executing a major risk. I'd understand if SAR was a bigger game for them to make a risk with this entirely new set-up. However, SAR is a niche indie game with some budget set aside for servers so people around the world can play-- it is a should for them and their effort to be aware of these design errors

[deft tusk]

my main concern is that i personally don't like the social hub that much, it doesn't feel lively enough to me. between the quests and social activities, neither of them are something i would play outside of sar.

normally that would be fine, just ignore the hub and the game is still fun. except well... there aren't players anymore. so now the br isn't that fun either. so now it's just hard for me to enjoy the game like i used to, sadly

[vale mason]

well, perhaps it can be polished out in quarterlies

UI can be fixed. division between SAW and BR, not so much. more modes is more modes, no matter how you look at it it divides players

[deft tusk]

and i know logan said dont concern yourself with player count, but its hard to ignore it in open discussions like this because its the main issue with the other modes atm

[uneven musk]

painfully tho, you play a battle royale to play with other players and not to play alone with bots otherwise there are other solo games you can do that with

so i agree

[deft tusk]

like, i queued into NA squads 30 min ago and it was literally just me and one other person vs 62 bots, no exaggeration

that cant be healthy for an online game

[uneven musk]

a lot of budget blasted too to support server costs

[uneven musk]

eggsactly

[deft tusk]

maybe if they focus more on single-player gameplay, though im not sure how much that will help the br playerbase grow

[vale mason]

there are also people that would like for SAR to not change at all. on the other side of the spectrum. but that didn't work either, there were less and less players before SAW update. food for though. What would you like to change in SAR?

[deft tusk]

me and almost every other br player just wanted br updates

not that it would make sar explode in popularity but i think it wouldve kept it more active

the LTM weapons were absolutely the right call imo

introduce new weapons that are temporary, and if the community voices how much they like them, you can reintroduce them as permanent

thats a solution that keeps players engaged in br while also not ruining the game for the majority

[uneven musk]

compare this br to big br games like apex legends or even the finals, heck include valorant in it even tho it isnt br---its the dev's duty to conceptualize stuff to keep the br aspect engaging and more competitive. some people hate the respawn but i think thats an excellent challenge. imo they couldve started with just that first.

people started leaving bc of the promise of SAW that just kept getting delayed and delayed only for it to turn out like this

[deft tusk]

a more personal issue i'll voice is that i actually love story games, and i think SAW has a lot of potential for storytelling. but storytelling isnt writing and voicing dialogue, its way more than that. so i want SAW to be something it isn't, and i can't tell if that's me asking for too much or if it's a general consensus (i know a lot of players like the update so its probably just me being picky lol)

ive said before that i love the cutscenes but there arent very many of them, and a few things that make story games impactful are:

• seeing your decisions impact the world in some way
• more theatrical stuff which makes the story akin to a show/movie (like the cutscenes)

it would be so cool if you did something in the social hub and something actually happened because of it? like someone is building a statue out of random stuff and you retrieve the stuff for them. yeah it's still just a fetch quest but at least you can see their progress on something in the world that you're actually having an impact on

[uneven musk]

ykw its hard to do a one shoe size fits all in a game like this but pixel couldve actually just made a separate game using SAR lore and made it co-op for smth like this to be executed than building an open world in game and letting it take over the whole concept of a battle royale

cuz i agree that actually sounds super nice and i would honestly eat that up as well hahhahaa and i think they tried to do a watered down version of that approach with SAW

[vale mason]

yeah... good luck with that, that sounds like something that would take not 3 but 6 years

let's be realistic here

[deft tusk]

i can't tell if that's sarcasm or not

sprites for a statue and coding said quest would take like a week or a month tops, not 6 years

maybe i didnt make my comment clear enough

[uneven musk]

i think dog was making a suggestion that didnt need to be actively realistic methinks

call it a wishful thought, dont see anything wrong with that so youre good

[deft tusk]

huh

so like

you know how you can get items as rewards for quests

instead of the item, it just loads in a new sprite on the map

i dont see how thats difficult or unrealistic to add personally

[uneven musk]

maybe considering bugs

ensuring everything is smooth

[drifting fox]

i totally get what dog wants

[uneven musk]

testing

[drifting fox]

that was what i thought saw was too

[deft tusk]

if its limited to social hub then it should be fine with no interference

[drifting fox]

but it turned out to be glorified milestones

[uneven musk]

hahahahahhahah exactly, i did mention that its like a watered down version of it

[drifting fox]

i feel like they overscoped and tried too hard to make everything in one go

instead of making good vertical slices

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect

[uneven musk]

bloat!

gah exactly

[deft tusk]

binding of isaac reference

but yes i think there should be stuff to make it either feel more like a story game or more like a social game, right now its like a weird mix between both but they didnt put all their attribute points into either lol

either make it feel like im progressing a story and having an impact, or let me do fun things with friends and/or randoms other than just hamball racing and fishing

[uneven musk]

and dont forget its super animal royale too 🙁

[deft tusk]

the fishing was actually fun on launch day but when you catch all the fish and realize they dont really do anything and it doesnt even keep track of how many you catch, its hard to stay motivated

[drifting fox]

i think i'd have loved saw quests more if it was like one very good small story/quest released every three months that eventually linked up

[deft tusk]

yeah that would have made it more enjoyable even if its initially lackluster compared to amount of content

quality over quantity though for sure

[drifting fox]

to get out of this rut:

• do proper user testing with bananos: observe what is hardest to find for new/existing users, what players usually want to find and make it easier to get there
• involve players in prototyping new features: instead of overdesigning upfront, make a MVP and let the players build out the modes alongside the devs using feedback
• streamline game matchmaking system and bring back focus to BR which is the core of the game
• leave all other features as is for now
  imo

[uneven musk]

ykw i doubt there was any actual* user testing done

hahahahahaha

[drifting fox]

i think the devs got trapped thinking they were making their dream game, shot for the moon and failed to get there
a problem a lot of artists face is that people want their art and not your art
i think this is the same problem - you need to make the community's game not really the dev's game

so I think what I mean is:
there needs to be stronger community-dev synergy and feedback loops in the development of sar

this will make it closer to what the players want to play

this doesn't mean adding every suggestion, or entirely ditching pixile's vision

it means building the things pixile wants to do with tailoring to make it fit better to what the players also want

like, people do want quests... it's just the quests can be better fit

[deft tusk]

maybe they should start polling the community for updates. i know animal army has gotten surveys in the past but i assume they arent too frequent and i think the actively playing animal army is also a pretty small sample size

because a good argument is "we dont know if players actually like this or if its just the players in feedback who like it, so we cant really listen entirely to feedback"

but if they poll the entire community both here, on reddit, and in other spaces

thats a good way to get a general idea of what their community wants

[drifting fox]

i think they should be more open about what's coming next, or what they're planning to do next, too and discuss about it

give up some hype for better tailored experience

it'll still be hype, anyway

people will still show up for releases

there's basically no benefit to hiding what the next plan is or keeping secrets from the community... people will play if the game is good, instead of relying on hype, rely on quality

[deft tusk]

keeping some things hidden can be fun though and makes initial experience more enjoyable, but i agree transparency is important especially for a community-oriented game

[drifting fox]

I think at this point, it would be wisest to be transparent, at least for features. Content is whatever. Keep the upcoming animals and cosmetics hidden that's fine. but features and mechanics, discuss them

[deft tusk]

i know terraria likes to tease half their updates while keeping the other half a surprise and it works well for them, but despite both teams being indie im sure relogic has an easier time releasing content

[uneven musk]

Just to let you know, I fully agree and I meant this as a side comment on how I think that with how the SAW mega update turned out, I doubt it had any rounds of actual user testing from players

[soft needle]

If one addresses and minimizes unnecessary friction introduced by the SAW update, I suspect that it will be better received even without any further additions.

Requiring players to enter SAW to do anything else is an important element of friction.

[drifting fox]

like absolutely no one cares that emus were not teased

but bananos should absolutely been discussed

[deft tusk]

seeing super emus was like 1% more exciting on my part

bananOS looked really cool and clean

[soft needle]

It would certainly be beneficial to play cards less close to the chest. I am not aware of any other 2D royale who is out to eat Pixile's lunch.

[deft tusk]

when i used it, its ehhh

not bad but feels a bit overcomplicated, i saw bloop post a thing where color-coding the windows might help with making it feel organized

[drifting fox]

you do get what i mean

they should've talked about it first and adjusted based on what people said

[soft needle]

Not disagreeing at all. Only slight disagreement is shifting the focus back to Royale - not because that would be bad - but I don't think that's the main reason some might not have been overjoyed with the update.

[deft tusk]

#1459684266064613538 message

[deft tusk]

didnt they have a lot of beta testers? namely wiki editors and some animal army

but

[drifting fox]

the point is, they could've gotten this feedback before release instead of after

[deft tusk]

from my understanding it was tested after they already released it, yeah

i agree

[soft needle]

A further benefit of playing cards less close to the chest is that players would also have a stake in the implementation design. Also would put more eyes on the process.

Meaning things would be more likely to be caught sooner.

Of course the flipside of that is that the more players are involved the more likely that one's creative vision might come under pressure.

[drifting fox]

it doesn't have to be that way at all

you can still do whatever you want, you just have more information to design it well

[soft needle]

True enough.

[vale mason]

it's kinda like waterfall vs agile development

[drifting fox]

exactly

pixile used to be way more agile

but because of console release, it takes a way bit more time to release anything

[vale mason]

waterfall is just closing yourself in a silo, planning and developing for years. agile is changing flexibly

[drifting fox]

you were seeing version 0.89.999999 every other week

[vale mason]

btw i just made a poll to gague if people really want more BR, at least here on discord

[drifting fox]

it's possible this 3-month cycle is the fastest they can go already

[deft tusk]

potential solution to this is similar to the beta branch idea mentioned earlier, they could definitely have a PC-only branch (or just have it set as the default PC branch even) and that would be the branch that receives content updates quickly

not to mention terraria again but i know they like to release things on pc first and then on other platforms later (a lot of other games probably do it too)

[ivory ore]

As a new player who finds comfort in the quests and expanded lore, somewhat likes the fish/bug stuff and has immediately adjusted to the ui, damn you make a good point

It's almost ironic that all the devs wanted to do was to expand the social aspect and immersion but apparently ruined it for a lot of people

(not including me but oh well)

[drifting fox]

why would anyone play anything but beta

i think like 2-hour beta events would be good i guess

[deft tusk]

to play with console players

who dont have access to it yet

[deft tusk]

it's good to hear input from a newer player!

i think one issue is that a lot of players here are experienced or have been around for a while, so their reaction to such major changes end up negative due to it not being how they're used to. and i can attest to that, a lot of the changes felt unnecessary and comparatively worse, but newer players definitely wouldn't be aware of this. and it can be hard to tell how much of our opinions are subject to our own bias since we already adapted to the game pre-saw

it kinda sucks because a lot of the design of SAW feels like it's catered entirely to newer players while older players seem to dislike a lot of the things added or changed

or maybe its just the players i hang around but i think most social circles have the same sentiment

[soft needle]

The last time they did a beta event was when they rewrote the netcode. The feedback they got from that was more positive than that for the wide rollout.

[ivory ore]

I feel like a way to do quests in a way that appeals to older players would be like, "operations"

Singleplayer/co-op quests where you have to go through a part of the map and kill a certain npc protected by a bunch of bots

Like, idk, a story-driven, smaller-scale, one-sided version of svr

Would actually challenge people's skill and resource management and whatnot

Though it would contribute to the thing with sar trying to be more than it has to be, I suppose

[mellow peak]

Yeah, I'd definitely love something co-op-y; SAW expansion does that in a native, casual, cosy way, but a way to "play" together like that would be dope too.

But also: cuz 7 years without Super Koalas

[signal walrus]

I think there might be a fundamental issue with match making ques atm. I find more players when im on my mums switch then when I play via steam.

She has the setting to be console only with cross console turned off with settings. Its kinda bizarre to find 20ish people with those settings opposed to steam which should be the universal platform

[lone flint]

i am playing, so i can't share a reason why I'm not..

[leaden violet]

I'd really like to see bigger hubs. The world is huge, and unfortunately 50-60 players just don't fill it.

It would also be nice to have a more rural lobby, maybe. I dislike the concrete runway, and would like an area more free of it.

[soft needle]

One possible solution here is to randomize the spawn wait locations on Victory Island. Would still be cramped but it wasn't intended to keep non-SAW players waiting for 2 minutes.

[compact dust]

https://discord.com/channels/413200888010637313/1460625236767539261

[compact dust]

Yeah I enjoy hunting bots too

[worldly fiber]

Not what Elvara means by rural. Probably more like the lobby SAR had at launch, where the players spawned next to a campfire in the woods (I think)

[compact dust]

😂🤣

[soft needle]

The current runway also offers less privacy.

I wouldn't mind seeking a black screen with a countdown.

But that's a minority view.

[vale mason]

I agree that forest would be better starting lobby

or something like that

[bitter belfry]

I agree

We have issues with players spamming friend invites at the runway 😭 I often have to run away from players

But if it wasn't for that, I'd be fine with the runway

[ivory ore]

The runway makes the most sense lore-wise though, like, you're being boarded to the giant eagle

Participants being taken by boat to the victory island and then boarded onto the eagle is like, idk

Good and functional

Of course the devs would come up with something that makes about as much sense for the forest, but thought I'd mention

Yes, I play the silly indie battle royale with funny animals for the lore

[compact dust]

I am full of friends I can't literally ask people anymore 😂🤣

[bitter belfry]

Lol

I haven't filled mine yet, I don't accept every invite I receive

[compact dust]

I mean it's optional

[worldly fiber]

I mean, checking your friend invites is also optional
So is checking your discord dms
Surely it makes no sense for people to be upset about being spammed by ads from alts?

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, I just don't like too much attention

[vale mason]

id rather have coziness over lore sense, i don't really care about lore in multiplayer game

but thats me

[bitter belfry]

Same

[ivory ore]

That's fair

Will probably even agree with y'all on this, it's not like the process of getting the participants onto the eagle is the most important thing for the lore

[drifting fox]

i think lore is nice, cuz sar has always have had that "has lore" feeling instead of just being a random collage of places

the lore is really really good, the quests are not really

its just unfortunate that most of the quests were tell rather than show

the things like being scamper is really cool for instance

but the way they set up this game technically is weird and i think being mp makes it way harder too

[vale mason]

elephants came

just that, nothing else

[soft needle]

One needs to keep in mind that SAW took near enough two years. Plus they only recently rolled out the patch to Nintendo... players. One would still hope to see communications concerning the plans for the near future.

[unreal jetty]

the thing is theres no limit to invites/requests for sar

you can spam them endlessly

[wispy pumice]

depending on how the pet is standing in the lobby, if it's too close to the character it is within the radius of the interact action and u can't pet 😭 had that happen for an afk player's pet

luckily u seem to be able to move people if you walk at them in the corner of their hitbox, not sure if that is intended behaviour or not though

after some testing though, it seems that if you are outside of the radius of the interact, but inside of the radius fo the pet interaction, you can walk ever so slowly and the animation will stay on.

just adding this here in case people are like, how come it's so hard.. I feel like it may be much easier to pet in lobbies if you're a console player because of analog sticks

edit: nope, I was totally wrong - it's easier for PC players because if you're able to interact with a pet, you're 100% outside the radius of the interact action, so math says you can only move fully vertical (no horizontal movement) or fully horizontal (no vertical movement)

[wispy pumice]

could be nice for when you reject a party invite, it sends the player a message telling the player you invited to your party has rejected your invite and to have like some cooldown

not a crazy cooldown, maybe like 30 seconds

and also a "block invites for one hour" either for a person or as a whole

that would really sell hard

anyone feel free to link a thread that has that and I will checkmark it.

[soft needle]

Increased cooldown for the number of rejections since last acceptance:

A x12 multiplier - baseline 25 seconds.

x1 - 25 seconds
x2 - 5 minutes
x3 - 1 hour
x4 - 12 hours
x5 - 6 days

I think that 6 days is a long enough time to not be annoying and avoid muting - but x6 does carry things into 72 days. Muting excludes invitations.

[worldly fiber]

I mean, the simplest fix would be for muting to also mute friend requests...

and for repeated rejections to prompt whether you'd like to mute the player

[soft needle]

That's another possibility - yes.

Could have an added button to 'mute and reject'.

[wispy pumice]

Yeah, no need for a totally complicated system. 30 seconds is on the lower end, sure, but my thought process is it should give a player enough time to DM them and tell them why they aren't available.

There could also be a "doing solos only" mode or something, for people who are playing solos and cannot be in a party. Similar for duos and those who can't be in parties larger than 2 players.

[leaden violet]

I mostly mean the Welcome Center. I haven't seen that one.

It sounds pleasant, though.

[jaunty lintel]

While I’m personally still playing, I do wanna point out something that tanked my motivation to do so: burnout

The hype was there. But eventually there just became too much to do. Some of the quests are really challenging for how early they come in the quest line (looking at you, 5 kills with a hamball). This challenge made me really burnt out since I was trying to complete these missions and making basically 0 progress because of either RNG (unable to find the item needed mainly) or just a skill issue. I, prolly like many others, got frustrated and that caused me to become much less motivated to play. Even the time delays felt more like a deadline than a delay, for if you failed to get the difficult quest done it felt like you’d be further behind

Have other people said this before? Maybe, but whatever. I wish I could give feedback on how to solve this but I sadly have no ideas at the moment, feel free to throw some around if you’d like

[soft needle]

5 kills with a hamball sounds like another quest that doesn't need to be royale-locked. 🤔

That quest is especially frustrating as attacking with a hamsterball can get you killed.

(A reason I avoid using it aggressively as a level 2)

[vale mason]

it doesnt matter if other people said it before, it's your reasons

[drifting fox]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/843380/view/637955472778854913
Adding this announcement to this thread as it is of high relevance

[vale mason]

I wanted to thank all people that participated here. Perhaps this added a pebble to the roadmap. IMHO it looks good.

I really do hope that "more QOL" means wardrobe back for all those wardrobe in UI lovers.

[drifting fox]

Imo the most important is that they're opening themselves up to talk

That goes a long way in building community trust

[vale mason]

i think that, the roadmap was more blurry in the past. or maybe i dont remember

now it's more clear imho

btw, is there someone who cares about museum?

[lone rover]

Me actually, both as a new location to fight in the royale and to see if our collections of bugs and fish get displayed somehow.

For royale it might make redwoods a slightly more lucrative location to check for loot.

[vale mason]

I like the order of roadmap fixes . first fixes, then BR, then more SAW. do you feel that something important was not adressed?

[deft tusk]

i would swap br with fixes but other than that it looks good

my reason being the QoL changes mentioned are not that exciting, they are definitely good additions but i think QoL stuff should not be a priority

i understand they are easier and faster to implement though

[lone rover]

I'd not be the best to comment because I've been pretty fine with nearly everything they've added in the SAW update, but I'm aware I'm the minority on that

[deft tusk]

well i just see some people complaining about having to wait another 3 months for core BR updates

i personally dont care too much, i will still play whenever friends invite me because i still like the game with friends. and then i can just do other things for those 3 months to pass the time

[lone rover]

Yeah. I'd rather a new update be well-thought-out than have them rush it and it not actually solve anything

[deft tusk]

updates take time, it isn't a big deal to me

yeah

i just wont be playing by myself like i used to until the playerbase is larger because i dont really find the game fun with bot lobbies sadly

thats nothing against the game or against pixile, but it just isnt the same as it used to be and i dont wanna play it anymore if thats how the game is

but like i said, still fun with friends! and i might do some events here and there too

[vale mason]

what fixes do you mean? or do you mean that you would want BR first, fixes later? I think theres not much time left to do anything interesting for BR for lunar, so it's better like that.

[deft tusk]

the ones they mentioned in the roadmap

[deft tusk]

yeah i agreed here, its not like they can magically push out content updates in a month

[wispy pumice]

sorry to dig to get this message and reply to it, but I just realized the obvious that you shouldn't be able to get party invites if you're in a match and/or party already.

FYI, for everyone here: regarding any comments about the latest blog post about competitive:

If your comment is in the context of ranked mode, please follow either this thread or, even better, go here to leave feedback!

Everything surrounding that topic has been fully covered by the comments in those recent threads. I welcome anyone to disagree, but do so in those threads. Thank you, and have a good night!

Though before I go, I did see that point earlier about the 5 hamster ball kills.

I agree, that quest is super annoying, and I wonder if the idea of it was a push to try to get people to use hamster balls more in SAR? In a way, it reminded me of that ||black pearl quest|| encouraging players to open lots and lots of clams.

Frankly, it's addicting to me personally, but not in a good way.

[worldly fiber]

I'm talking about friend invites, not party invites

[wispy pumice]

I find both of them equally distracting, but party invites are, at least to me, far more annoying and should not be able to be sent to someone while they're in the game, especially if you can't add friends in game anyway.

[worldly fiber]

If you're talking about steam party invites, that can really only be handled on steam's side...?

[wispy pumice]

What?

[wispy pumice]

I am talking about when you invite someone to a party on the social hub in-game.

I haven't once ever seen anyone send an invitation to Super Animal Royale through Steam

[worldly fiber]

...you can do that?

[wispy pumice]

after work I can show you, but yeah

[worldly fiber]

I just checked, you can in fact do that to friends

And, getting invited while in party somewhat makes sense

but getting invited during a game sounds wild

[civic sorrel]

If you knew how lonely you can be left

Playing alone is the worst

And people like me have to deal with it because olders in the community did so much that they dont have to worry abt being alone

That wrong it is

And probably this is not active but i had to say it..

[soft needle]

Sorry that you've been feeling alone/lonely. That can certainly be rough.

I'm guessing you are mentioning this in the context of being on a less populated server?

[civic sorrel]

It's not only that, it's been that way ever since i came back

People boring of the Game, less talking that other times, and everything already has it's own group of Friends, and they can easily go well without this server

Why does it exist in the first place? People who joined in 2019-2021 and got active in time, are now the most important people

While newbies simply don't try anymore, or are not interested

Empty matches full of bots, the people only talking over eachother while others are left behind

[soft needle]

People will move on to other experiences. As much as SAR is a solid experience, I wouldn't look at, for example, Pac Man or Donkey Kong and expect them to always be busy as games - but they might be games that people come back to. Similarly SAR could be an experience that people may come back to every now and then - and some more than others.

People who are open to friendships will find them here - although it may take time to find your group. With the SAW update you can chat more freely and have conversations - so that's helpful and that can help form connections.

Since people are more inclined to hang out in that SAW world - some modes - if not all - will seem more empty as a result.

Plus there are more modes active at any one time. More split.

[civic sorrel]

I do not belive in that yk? How countless times i tried to be a chill guy and be there for everyone? Not no, they don't trust me either

[civic sorrel]

An entire map for only 64 players, and i saw servers-worlds empty once You leave the social Center

[soft needle]

I don't know. I honestly admit that I don't recognize you - but the funny thing about trying to be liked is that the more you try, the less that people will naturally take to you.

It's odd.

[civic sorrel]

So what's your suggestion then

My issue of why i don't play is that is always alone, full of bots

[soft needle]

It 'would' be nice for SAW to be able to support more than 64 players - yes. Even if they have to consider chunk support.

[soft needle]

Your reason is valid. If you look for players and find substandard bots in their place then people won't fault you for feeling that something is missing.

[civic sorrel]

People always told me that i'm the problem, but they never see what i see, a world that doesn't seem alive

[soft needle]

I personally think that improving the bots would be a nice step. Single player experiences are popular for a reason - but as for not enough players being in matches - that's a little more complicated.

[civic sorrel]

At this point bots are the most companion i ever had when i came back

[soft needle]

People 'do' like to say that perceived problems are perceiver problems. It's the convenient thing to believe.

You don't seem convinced that they are right.

May I ask which server you play on?

[civic sorrel]

What if i'm not? If i want to keep My place as that is not My fault, so be it

[civic sorrel]

I'm not playing rn

[soft needle]

I mean in general. NA/SA/EU/AS

[civic sorrel]

NA

[soft needle]

And, fair.

[civic sorrel]

NA looks like the only server with decent ping

SA looks good but lag is visible

[soft needle]

Okay. Just checking as NA tends to be reasonably populated, if I'm not mistaken.

[civic sorrel]

Sometimes yes, sometimes not

[soft needle]

Fair. Time of day/night matters.

[civic sorrel]

But, there will always be a group of Friends there

And there goes My point again of trying to make Friends is already a failure

If You werent here by the very start of SAR, it's done

[soft needle]

I've been around since 22'. I'd not really noticed what you're describing. Not saying it's not so though. 🤔

[civic sorrel]

Everyone is allowed to have different views

Mine one is that

[soft needle]

Agreed. And more than one point of view can be correct.

[civic sorrel]

Mine one might not be, but it won't change

[soft needle]

Have you been looking for friends in game for long?

[civic sorrel]

I joined between 2023-2024

And came back at finals of 2025

No upgrade

[soft needle]

Okay so been around for a while.

[civic sorrel]

Not at all

I had inactivity times

Times that i wish i didnt took

Because now i'm like this

[civic sorrel]

It's crazy because it's also My fault, and i accept it

[soft needle]

At this time you are conscious about having fewer friends in the game than you would like. Suggestions that come to mind aren't easy pills to swallow and they won't all take equally well.

One option is to try to look for friends in different games/environments. Perhaps this one isn't the right one for you - due to incompatibilities upon aqny of a number of levels that one might perceive.

Another is to work on having positive interactions with persons rather than aiming for friendship.

[civic sorrel]

This whole Game is what represents everything i like...if i try in somewhere else, i end up in the same

[soft needle]

That way one sets one's goals reasonable - and one has more control on that. One cannot control who wants to be friends with you.

[civic sorrel]

Sorry but i always aim for friendship...

It's the whole point of something called "socialize"

[soft needle]

Also know that a lack of appreciation on the part of others does not reflect upon your personal worth. Monkeys that bash laptops to open nuts don't mean that the laptops are akin to rocks, even if they may be esteemed as such.

But it is also good to retain an open mind and awareness of the possibility that there may be room for improvement on one's own part.

Whether one closes doors in the face of others trying to reach out, or otherwise regarding them with suspicion, or whether one instead has difficulty conducting the self in a manner that establishes contact with others - perhaps having difficulty establishing a relatability to let down the guards of others sufficiently to have a friendly interaction - there will always be 'something' more that one can do.

As you might be aware, some people send friend requests with the intention of squadding up with you.

Nothing wrong with that - and it could lead to good interactions - but it will take more than that to establish friendly connections.

And some poeple just don't play the game to find friends. Their mindsets differing.

I'm not sure what, if anything, could benefit improving on the game's part to facilitate the forming of connections. SAW is a big one.

[civic sorrel]

You know how many times i tried to be better? How worth i am and willing to help others?

The core problem is that people don't give opportunity, because of a Bad experience of anything, and they are so close minded that it gets people out

[civic sorrel]

And i know, i am the one who tries, and other persons just leave randomly

[soft needle]

A bad experience will sometimes result in people closing off.

And depending on what it is - they just won't be available for second chances.

[civic sorrel]

How is that going to help?

Waiting for people to come to your life is useless, it's like waiting for a reward for free

[soft needle]

They don't trust that people can change. And in truth it is not easy to change.

[civic sorrel]

And thats My problem with people

[soft needle]

Well... do you expect friendships to form in matches?

[civic sorrel]

No, because it's for Moments

It takes time and dedication

It's not like that after one Match a persón Will want to play with me a lot

If that was the case i wouldnt have this problem

[soft needle]

True. And there is also a difference between a friend and a play partner.

[civic sorrel]

See My point now?

Playing matches is not gonna work, it's like..real life work

They are only there for a reason

In this case, grinding, playing for fun, or anything within SAR lore

[soft needle]

Okay. Well I suppose in your case you could try a more direct approach. In a lobby with people as k if anybody fancies playing duos. Or squads.

Or whatever mode you prefer.

Keep the question simple. Accept no or silence as an answer.

If you have a good experience - find a reason to compliment the person.

If you repeat that often enough you might have people adding you as a friend in-game.

It'll be a long process but this last update enables you to try this.

[civic sorrel]

It sounds good..so i will try

But that doesn't mean i wont talk more about this (not in a Bad way, just keeping the comversation Open for someone else)

[soft needle]

Oh. That's fine. Wasn't saying any of this to stop you from talking about it. Good luck!

[civic sorrel]

Thanks a Lot! ;3

And for anyone reading, i'm sorry if i turned this into a personal thing of mine, but i'm more than sure that, first, there are people out there passing thru the same thing, and second, most of My words are true, and i had to say it because i feel trash, and venting was hard til now

So..have a good morning, afternoon or night, and please... don't let this aside so easily

[vale mason]

tbh people return to Pac Man or Donkey Kong because they are single player games. Multiplayer games depend on number of players and there are games where people just don't return, as they they are "dead" or vastly different than before. I will probably play Pac man every 5 years or so. That I cannot say about many multiplayer games. Those experiences are gone, like tears in rain.

[vale mason]

i wasnt here by the very start and met some people. sounds like some generalization bullcrap

perhaps you are right, that SAR went less social with time. I do not have right to invalidate your view as I haven't been around in the begining to know the difference

but saying stuff like that "you either were since the start or you're done" around sounds just silly and projecting your problems on other people

[soft needle]

This depends on how dependent the game is on other players to bring the content to the game. Which is why I keep bringing up improving the AI. ^_^

SAR is a game that one has pretty much the same access to all content at level 1 and level 1,000.

[vale mason]

that's true, but i'd rather pixel try and die or live than to convert energy to making this game a weak solitaire single player experience. There are plenty of single player games made, I won't play this as single player experience, there are more interesting things to do.

[soft needle]

I'm a little biased because I know the importance of AI presence (even sub par ones) in helping keep F2P games playable in low periods.

[vale mason]

please share examples

[soft needle]

Robocraft. It only died when the server was shut down.

But it would have been truly "dead" before that if it didn't have AIs.

[vale mason]

I think that it can be helping, and not sure if as many players would play now if there were no bots but 8-12 people that would have to find each other. But with how Pixel slowly develops, I'd rather they focus on other stuff rn.

[soft needle]

The thing about AI improvements is that it should be invested in slowly over time, not as a big project. Otherwise when it's more than just desirable to engage in such a project, it's already too late.

[vale mason]

unfortunately, I do not see any bots improvement in the roadmap

although they could be under some general term like "focus on main modes"

[vale mason]

isn't there 8 players playing right now according to steam?

[soft needle]

Sort of. A thing is happening there that happens when a game's infrastructure stops existing.

If somebody is dedicated enough.

[wispy pumice]

So, I guess that sometimes there are gonna be players who just don't really want to play with certain people for whatever reason. Could be anything, but why then do they still show up in ur squad sometimes?

[vale mason]

?

Do you mean playing squads with random people? Maybe you are new player, but this was always a bad idea, before update also.

[wispy pumice]

Yes, randoms.

Something worth mentioning is that with the update, the typical course of action that worked previously - just exit to the main menu and rejoin - no longer works.

You can't rejoin an existing game lobby (where you go to meet on Victory Island before the start of ta game), and if you exit you have to first rejoin the Overworld anyway, then rejoin the queue.

The hting with randoms though is that, it's not exactly random. The exact moment when you press accept, that determines who's in that game lobby, and so it's technically it's not purely "random".

So, I can see why people might be against partying up, prefers random queue, but gets frustrated by the queue because it's not really random, and you might get that one (or more) noob[s] over and over again simply because you're playing SvR at 3 in the morning eastern time and there's only 8 active players now.

Not trying to poke at SvR lol, just saying if you see someone who's in your party and is a random, you know they're on your team.

[wispy pumice]

Anyway, in my honest opinion, I think that the change ended up making people less likely to resort to that previous trick, but I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a not insignificant handful of players that still do

[soft needle]

One option is to turn off Fill in options - but if you're high level then that'll make matchmaking seem even worse.

[wispy pumice]

presumably, if there were such a group still - I won't reveal any names - but, they would probably want to have a way to keep blocked players from joining their team

[soft needle]

Surprised to hear that muting doesn't impact fill though.

[vale mason]

the queue system will be reworked in future, looking at the roadmap. we will see then, until then I have nothing to add in topic of queues

[vale mason]

if you have somthing in particular in mind how queue should work, and if it wasnt already touched in suggestions, now would be best time to post it before updates

[wispy pumice]

Well, you know how in the bwoking dead everyone respawns as a chicken at the same time intervals? can't they do that for lobbies too?

[vale mason]

a separate thread with suggestion label might be a good idea

[wispy pumice]

to do so would force preprocessing of player names anyway, so if they do that then they'll make it more random and less time-based, and they provide an interface which they can filter out players based on mute/block status

i.e., if someon is muted/blocked, then force one of them to go to the next interval

cuz i assume there's only ever one active lobby at a time, and you can't make em wait for another lobby lol sincce that's what they would do anyway

i'm just yapping so i don't think another thread is needed, but anyway yea

[vale mason]

if people won't make suggestions, it's harder for devs to notice what is needed. I made 5 suggestions today to formalize some of the things that were talked about

[wispy pumice]

oh wow, u did?

[vale mason]

yep, I hope they are visible

[wispy pumice]

maybe I'm reading it wrong but I think the blog post talks a lot about making it easier to play with people you want to, with requeueing but doesn't really say anything about if that includes actively preventing blocked/muted player from appearing in your squad

i hate to think that requeuueing will be added and the thought process is making it easier to requeue / to be on the same server as your friends, is expected to indirectly address that specific issue

anyway i just created a word pool of all of my messages and i'll try to make a thread for it

[wispy pumice]

can anyone confirm that you can't copy and paste in chat? i feel like i must be doing it wrong

[vale mason]

I can copy and paste.

[wispy pumice]

oh are you in the menu when u do it?

[vale mason]

menu?

[wispy pumice]

whenver i do it it just goes away

[vale mason]

not sure. do you use pc or cellphone?

[wispy pumice]

oh no i'm talking about in game in the social hub LOL

sorry

[vale mason]

ohhh

[wispy pumice]

in the game u can copy friend codes but u can't copy it FROM chat

[vale mason]

unfortunately i do not know, I do not play the game rn

try in bug-and-tech-help

[north ocean]

i still play it just not as much because the everyone feels distant sometimes
like there’s some silly moments like people running mcdonald’s in pie of the tiger and meeting randos in the lobby and winning squads with them but there’s no more of that like bit where you try to communicate with people before the match starts yk

[simple geyser]

🌺 For me, I play on and off. The main issue I have is lack of player interaction in meaningful context in or out of matches.

I get flooded with random friend requests from low ranks which then seemingly ignore or do not understand the word “no”, and in matches it’s a mixed bag of who I get for teammates or enemies really. However it often feels there is little death matches and instead just results in a mindless push.

Alternate modes which change this look end up not having much players so most games im farming bots :T

[long shore]

I'm not a fan of this community that much. Also the time-gated progression of quest are annoying so you can only do one or a few per day and then I end up forgetting what I did sometimes. Though I can see how having quests spread out daily is a way to keep players engaged long-term so one can't blitz through them all in a single long play session.

[vale mason]

what is wrong with community, if you don't mind me asking? I also do not like the time-gating, made me quit the quests so that had opposite effect on my engagement.

One would do quests sooner or later anyway, so that is not long-term gameplay element.

[long shore]

strict and overzealous discord mods , also lots of easily offended players

Yeah I quit quests for now, I could resume at anytime so that's good

[vale mason]

I never had problems with mods, but yeah, the players are easily offended(to typical gaming behaviour, so if you have your mom jokes etc, you might have culture shock)

[wispy pumice]

Not to sound mean or anything, but younger people are generally more easily offended just because they're younger... it's natural and it's not really unusual in any community.

Regarding the mod stuff, I really don't know any of the context, but if I were a mod, that instant shift post-update would also kinda start to burn me out over time. That's a fact.

I do agree though that the update shifted the playerbase quite a bit in that regard [and gets to be too much for many to digest/handle].

Just know that I am immune to that effect because I generally don't pay enough attention

[wispy pumice]

To add a little more context to what I wrote above, I wanna add that, for any Discord community that is likely to have a mix of children/teens and adults, you gotta keep a tight leash, especially game-related ones.

My point is that, the job is tough and the responsibility is great. But, it's not really related to the game... I would probably wanna know (in this thread) if the chat in-game was making people wanna not play.. not really Discord per se.

[long shore]

Sar discord is essentially a PG-10 disneyland bubble. It's like walking on eggshells., gotta avoid mod landmines. I realized It's not as laxed as other discord game servers. Even something small can trigger someone. Can feel draconian at times. Irony is this game is based on violence

[hollow elbow]

i mean the game is rated E so the discord server has to be at least somewhat clean lol
i personally dont really mind it. its kind of refreshing being in a discord thats not a deprived cesspool

plus. a lot of this server and the playerbase of sar is kids so idk what u expect lol

[long shore]

Esrb classification doesn't fully predict community temperament. Some e-rated games do cultivate a more permissive discord culture. sar's seem to have evolved to a more child-compatible and brand coherent etiquette.

So yeah im not really a fan of when something seemingly light banter tunrs into a quasi-professional compliance exercise. Also mod enforcement here can seem arbitrary and inconsistent a lot of the times. Other e-rated games manage to survive without a full-fledged purity council , but sar is clearly build different. Truly the wonders of discord micro-civilization

[halcyon lily]

The community was partially why I quit. Extremely anti-criticism and hosts toxic positivity. They must be reminded that no game is perfect, nor immune to criticism.
Because of this, I pretty much have to heavily water down my critiques with the game, because one wrongly worded message and my risk of getting warned and/or banned skyrockets. Steam was the only place where I got to make a proper and honest review on the game with no consequences. (Minus the Jester awards but... That's just a Steam thing in general.)

There will always be bad apples, sure, but for me they were unavoidable. You can always try to ignore people, but with a game that's so community-centered, that doesn't work much.

Time-gated quests as a negative will always be a good point too, I've yet to meet someone who actually loves that feature.

[hollow elbow]

Im being genuine here where is the purity stuff here haha. I mean no swearing and nsfw but that's pretty par for the course... Idk I've only been here since 2022 so I haven't been around the longest but I just haven't seen instances where mods are suupper picky with what's being discussed. Maybe I'm used to it idk

I do agree Toxic positivity problem - it was really bad before SAWs release. But I feel like it's gotten better now. A lot of fans (include me!) have been voices their problems and criticism of the update

Hope this isnt straying too far from the feedback topic - I know community is a big part of why someone would not want to play anymore - especially with a big selling point being the social aspect

I just don't think I've seen anyone get banned or wanted for voicing their criticisms. Not saying it didn't happen I just haven't seen that personally

Hope it doesn't sound like I'm defending mods and pixile whatever til the cows come home I'm just being genuine here ! Boy do I have problems with this update and sometimes the community but I'm just being honest here

Sorry for the paragraphs ooopps

Again if this is off topic feel free to ignore and steer things back in the right direction this thread is super long woah

[long shore]

Yeah thats another axis of annoyance, toxic positivity , saying something correct can still be treated as socially incorrect. The logique becomes like "if what you said makes people uncomfortable it must be bad" Truth becomes subordinate to mood regulation

It's becz criticism feels like conflict, disloyalty to the devs, disruption etc. but the problem is it creates a space where only praise and cheerfulness are allowed. that feels intellectually claustrophobic and you get this social environment where bad experiences cant be voiced without social penalty . They respond to criticism with social sanction.

In many cases, the person who gets dogpiled for pointing out flaws is the only one treating the game like a mature product instead of a personality coping mechanism

I feel likr members start to police the norms even if they don't personally care. They like feeling aligned with the group, so they mimic the prevailing etiquette. That produces an easily offended environment even if the indiviuals inside it aren't inherently fragile. What we get is a "clean" environment, but one that feels very stifling and performative

But yeah im not really a fan of the community , i try to not let it ruin my experience

[raven pier]

I play on the switch. If I stay in the main lobby the game works. If I play any game it crashes 2-3 matches in. On top of that it's a very busy time of year for me. So when I have time to play games, I'm prioritizing games that don't crash.

As a side, I genuinely don't get to see most of the people I used to play with. I've seen less than 5% since SAW dropped. I don't know if they quit or bad luck or what. But the less I see people I enjoy playing with, the less I prioritize the game.

That's why I'm playing less. I want to play less because I don't see most of my SAR friends on and when I do; I have to slog through game crashes.

I'm sure it'll be better in the future. It lasting 2-3 games is already better than the 0 from before. But it is frustrating.

[charred badger]

• don't know, really low player count since update in br

• kinda expected more from sar world, other then fetch quests
  Which is cute at first

• games take so long to get a lobby.... And after that there are barely any people

sheesh fine I'll talk normal dyno

The rewards for quests are so sad... Just 100 CARL COINS?? gimmeee ticketss

[halcyon lily]

Fetch quests can be fun when done right, but with SAW it's mostly "Do this, come back to me." with slightly harder variants, which sometimes some of those are a bit too hard and tedious. Just a lot of back and forth walking with in and out match queueing that made me lose interest extremely fast.

[ivory ore]

Tbh not sure what you're talking about, I've been seeing a lot of criticism of the game in this very discord, a whole system supporting it (the feedback forums) and generally a decent amount of banter going on sometimes

I agree that toxic positivity is bad (especially when it's to the extent you describe it) but I don't really see it happening in this community in particular

[charred badger]

I urge sar for some innovation, even if it's risky

[halcyon lily]

It has probably changed since last time I've been here (And I hope so!), but that behavior (The one Gingle mentioned) is oddly common around here. Staying relatively hush-hush about it since talking about things like this in threads leads them to getting locked down by the higher-ups (Which I don't want, since this thread was actually needed and has been for a while), but it definitely does happen.

[ivory ore]

Huh

[charred badger]

It's gotten critical since player count is lower

[halcyon lily]

I've noticed. 10 or so players during NA's peak hours isn't a good look. Full lobbies of course weren't common either, but 10?

That's a change I cannot ignore.

Queueing/Matchmaking in itself feels... way slower, even if it's been confirmed that's not the case (I think? Would have to find the message for this).

#💬general message Apparently it's now prioritizing filling matches than just throwing you in. (Or.. Rather just read the message, I'm bad at explaining tech.)

[ivory ore]

I get between 0 and 6 real players per lobby in eu lmao

but the hub is almost always full 50 players

[charred badger]

Ye that feels the worst, ain it

[ivory ore]

Not really, just confusing

Like are 90% of people really busy catching bugs and stuff?

[charred badger]

It's also an annoying guessing game, unlike before. You can see when the game is dead and go when the game is alive

But since it takes extra long nowadays to even get in a lobby

[charred badger]

Idling 😭

Like yes it's fine but

[ivory ore]

It's fun to just hang out or rp sometimes but not like

90% of the time

[charred badger]

Fr

[vale mason]

I just glimpsed over the previous discussion and see toxic positivity was mentioned. I will add my 2 cents that it was much worse 3 years ago. I think the community matured somewhat. There are still cases but more rare. Keep in mind that age median is probably low here, kids have tendency to be "fanboys" (anyone remember console wars?) about their favourite thing and have tribe mentality. Some are "kidults" also. Best to just ignore such people.

(also, I have a feeling that people mature after their 30's now. so lot of what i said above aplies to people in their 20's. it's easy to offend them etc.)

That being said, people requiring to be more professional here at least on most surface level, is something that I like here. Doesn't stop passive agressive and/or toxic positive folks from doing what they do, but at least there is no fullscale bullying.

It facilitates better discussions and more progress overall, if we assume that what community says weights in development process.

just my 2 cents to look at the brighter side. didn't mean to disrupt the discussions and new opinions flow, carry on

[wispy pumice]

No, I think it's fine.

That was the original intention of community boards on the internet, to mimic oldschool IRL panels/quorums - at least in the US, anyway - before social media. It's just evolved somewhat with more people being able to speak up at once.

Like, does it necessarily mean people like Chegg or Logan will respond more? Maybe not, depending on time available, but they read these and expect professionalism.

TBH, I think that drives kids away from the discussion, but it sets a great example. We need this in the context of in-game, too. Likewise in-game, we need to set good examples for kids and adults alike, and yes the new "tweents "as you mentioned, that's a real phenomenon.

Toxic positivism is one example that I saw already given, but other community issues are also notwithstanding. Just set good examples; follow the prosocial values that this game is meant to represent.

So, in summary, for that to happen successfully, the game needs to have:

1.) the ability to support a good amount of active players with varying interests
2,) support for good communication methods between players who can easily spot understand how to report problems, and be comfortable in doing so
3.) a place of open discussion for the community to bond and thrive both inside and outside of the game

As far as I know, all three of these conditions are well-met, perhaps with the exception of the second one which BTW, I made a thread for this morning.

The ingredients to keep the community growing is all there in the road map, too, IMO. Before that came out, I was a bit more skeptical. But I do believe that the community can, and will grow. I can't say by how much, but the ingredients are all right there, and I have faith.

I do admit, I understand that there is critique about the quests being the way they are, and I am purposely avoiding that because I am not really for a quest-heavy game.

And, I may even be the only person who doesn't mind the time-boundness of it, because I naturally (with my ADHD) stink at time management and breaking down tasks into smaller subtasks. I personally consider it to be an accommodation. But, I see why other people might love quest-driven games and feel like it's a real setback.

I talked quite heavily, so I am going away for a while. But, hopefully this was helpful in some way.

[soft needle]

I wonder if an indirect solution to the time-gating would be a new feature being added to Le Waddle - Exclusive rooms. 🤔

These would function similarly to inns in JRPGs.

You pay Carl Coins to sleep. When you sleep all time-gates are reset.

This could even tie-in with more SAW-level story telling in the form of tiny text-based segments.

This would also greatly drop any issues that a streamer wishing to cover SAR on a one-time basis would encounter.

[true steeple]

yes the main problem is now that the main game mode isnt the BR anymore but the social hub

[soft needle]

Eh. Royale wasn't the initial focus of pioneers of it - but became it. Which is not to say that the initial focuses don't warrant further improvement - that's the trap of trend chasing.

SAW has rough edges. It needs them smoothed out - which should result in more people not letting those friction points inspiring them to close game or miss the old direct-to-queue room system.

It's good that they will be focusing more on the core game modes soon - but SAW needs that adjustment.

Also - maybe people would be less inclined to chase quests if quests weren't constantly on the left of the screen.

[true steeple]

imo it was a bad idea to make social hub a primary mode, the game is called Super Animal Royale not Super Animal World, it was based on BR type

[soft needle]

The Social Hub replaced the main menu, and took the game a step closer to being a MMO of sorts. The only mistake in my opinion was removing the old menu before the hub proved itself to be a full replacement.

[vale mason]

im not sure if social hub is the primary mode. primary mode is whatever people choose to play

[vale mason]

"Royale wasn't the initial focus of pioneers of it" what do you mean?

[vale mason]

hiding quests feature is on its way

[soft needle]

Fortnite pivoted into royale, following in PUBG's success in it.

My point is that nailing a game to a singular mode relies a lot on that mode remaining popular further down the road, and limits its appeal to players whose interests align with different kinds of gameplay.

[vale mason]

so fortnite and pubg werent royales at first?

nailing a game to a singular mode hmm... most games, even old ones, had many modes, capture the flag, deathmatch, team deathmatch

but those modes just changed rules of the game - it wasnt different mode as in different minigames

bwoking and svr are also different modes

[soft needle]

PUBG was - I misremembered that it wasn't.

With SAW's introduction I half-expected a rename/relaunch and a modest shift away from royale - there are other modes.

I am curious as to what kind of update to Royale would be desired, at this point.

[thorn garnet]

new content in general maybe new consumables guns, utilitys ect

metashifts are also healthy in br intrest

also correct me if im wrong but I think utilitys weren't added in the new tutorial

[soft needle]

Throwables also aren't included - unless there is a catmine quest.

Well there 'are' banan quests.

[ivory ore]

...Actually I'm oddly less interested to play after completing the main story quests

maybe getting good enough that I get at least one win every play session AND usually completely obliterate bots (even usually survive the mid game bot swarming) also contributes into it...

Considering I don't feel like doing the regular side quests (I've gotten them to the point of "do this extremely rare thing and come back to me), grinding battle passes and milestones seems like the only long-term goal

[drifting fox]

Yeaaaah same

The side quests are just slightly longer daily challenges

If they were actual pve missions I'd play them

[ivory ore]

Yeyeye

I think I mentioned pve missions here before

But basically I see them as a solo/co-op smaller scale version of svr mode

[drifting fox]

They said they'd have a hard time implementing that somewhere, because of how tightly integrated sar is with the 64 player server

Tbh in that case whatever

Just refocus on br since thats what the game is built for

[ivory ore]

I see, fair enough

...Also, could this be a point where I try to participate in the community events? I usually stay away from pvp events in games but in this case I may have gotten good enough to at least start

[drifting fox]

I don't consider myself particularly good, signed up for a scrim with a friend and got 4th so yeah

[vale mason]

I don't think that's odd at all. That's pretty normal.

[vale mason]

Yeah, you could try. I had some fun in the past with those when I got bored with moping floors in regular BR.

The competition is usually fierce and it's hard to beat Ruki though.

I do not like the typical event ruleset of having to score kills personally, but some people like that. Feels less like BR.

You could also try EU, as EU players are in general better than NA.

but to be honest, EU is dead nowadays

[vale mason]

(I beat him once but I dressed as comodo dragon in green glasses lol. now i see this skin banned)

[ivory ore]

I've been playing in EU the whole time lul

Way better ping

[vale mason]

you might have ping problem then as almost no events are in EU

sucks to be us

[ivory ore]

Ehh, I recently played a bunch on NA and the ping still feels playable

(at least I managed to score a couple wins in NA too and I don't think I saw much difference)

Despite the number difference being 60ish ping in EU and 170ish in NA

Anyway yeah, events sound like a good next step then

even have "legendary" players to beat, waow

./half-joke

[unreal jetty]

the komodo skin is banned competitively as it can be unfairly utilized to blend into your surroundings to camp people out or simply hide, which is viewed as a major advantage

[stuck crystal]

There are no more people in lobbies anymore, thats why I am losing interest. I know this is something out of your hands, so I tried to think of reasons for this so you might be able to tackle the roots of the issue. SAW is taking away from the royale, so more people are doing quests rather than playing the royale. The repetitiveness of quests make people bored with SAW so they stop playing. People may just miss the old SAR where it was only fighting. I dont know how to solve this

Also there are many good ideas for new breeds and weapon skins, why not add some of the communities most popular ideas instead of mainly making new skins in the interest of the devs? There could have been many more new skins and weapons in the SAW update. Not to criticize, just to suggest.

[charred badger]

Better player engagement and rewards for BR should fix this

More rewards from BR that give meaningful things other then cosmetics

I sorta wish sar leans into it's theme park influence, buying tickets for certain experiences

[tardy quartz]

What would be an example of this?

[tardy quartz]

We do actually! Hamsters and Chinchillas were two of the most commonly requested Super Animals, and we do tend to add some cosmetics direct from the #1207114642577424494 in most updates, and even made a whole pass themed around it in the past

[vale mason]

what makes you say that it's mainly devs skins and not community?

unless i misinterpreted your msg

not that I say it's not like that, but have you counted?

[soft needle]

Players who point out that there aren't enough players in lobbies are, in my interpretation-based opinion, indirectly saying that the substitutes aren't sufficiently substituting for players.

And that the intrinsic value of the mode is linked with the presence of players (and/or a suitable substitute for such). Which may explain the mention that the extrinsic rewards (cosmetics) aren't quite doing it for them.

Of course, we also are aware that the difficulty level of AIs is variable based upon numbers, including the level of the player their difficulty level is being based off of.

I therefore conclude that a motion towards making the AIs feel more alive, less mechanical, less predictable, might go some way towards this.

I don't personally think that they need to be conversational - SAW exists to cater for social demand.

It might however be interesting if Greg from Accounting, took on a persistent persona that is discernible via means other than quips.

Perhaps some AIs are tuned to be 'sharper' in exchange for disfavouring low level players to have them be less overbearing.

[vale mason]

Let's make Greg into "you look lonely, I can fix that"

[soft needle]

Honestly this could probably merit an entire topic of its own.

[ivory ore]

I think there was a topic about making bots better with personalities/skill levels/etc?

[charred badger]

Here are some examples I have in mind! That should support the Combat -> World loop

• Special rewards thru currency
  Buying a minigame ticket to play with a friend or with your team(I have an idea of this in my 1v1 post..!),

Buying progression equipment for sar world, I'm pretty sure there are baits? But haven't gone far yet
I also encourage difficulty in late game progressions
Combat progression maybe, however this is very risky, but very rewarding
This could be Carl's cart or an entirely new currency

• 2-3days double XP/coin in a week.
  Players would know when to hop on for combat! And when it's chill! (Other then weekend bias) This can be mode exclusive or all modes give more XP

• Better rewards for getting top placement
  This is a bit riskier, but I feel most rewarded midgame, when I collect legendary loot. Endgame can makes me tired after, as there isn't really much reward after that!

[soft needle]

Ah yes. #1395878022720131132 message Exists.

That's a more recent incarnation of the suggestion.

[charred badger]

What if bots had rank, to how frequently you kill them

[ivory ore]

Bait sounds like it could be used to increase chances of catching bigger fish (including getting perfects more often), I'm on board

[charred badger]

Asides from autodetecting noobs