gtfo-related-questions

[hidden ridge]

There's a funky looking Panda I see sometimes that has me wonder, but it must be my imagination

[arctic marten]

that is a raccoon

[hidden ridge]

What about Chimp Davies? Did we ever get to resolve that conundrum?

Will it be finalized within the week?

[arctic marten]

chimp davies will forever stay banned from the starbucks restroom that is lore channel

a fitting end

[native sun]

4.5m to trigger the attack, but after the attack has started the range is infinite (only way to dodge is to move to the side/behind em)

[wind wren]

I have been told back multi is a specturm based on the players position in relation to the enemy, what's the minimum this multi can be?

[latent obsidian]

1

[dry pumice]

It goes from x1 from front and starts going up to x2 as you start getting behind the enemy. Don't know the details past that, but I assume it starts going up once you cross the 180 degrees

[wind wren]

I meant min that on backbiting

Backhit*

[latent obsidian]

I think it actually starts before that 180 degrees point, I've seen someone demonstrate damage increase from in front to the side by hitting a headshot breakpoint you don't get normally

[wind wren]

Yeah that's also my assumption but I can't imagine it starts out at something like 1.1 or lower

[dry pumice]

Fascinating

Well, knowing this game its probly going through the decimals like mad

1.001 or something

[latent obsidian]

You'd need datamined knowledge or somesuch to know that and I don't really see the value

I was under the impression it was just a gradual increase

[turbid horizon]

It is an angle yeah

Idk how hard

[wind wren]

Asking cuz I'm fairly certain it can't be lower than 1.3ish (but idk anything else)
I've been trying out spear to chainkill smalls and with 102%boosters it 1taps to occi from basically besides it on just the tap

[turbid horizon]

Or if it scales exponentially, linear, etc. but you could ask the modding server

Or maybe Eva

[latent obsidian]

how much damage does 102% spear tap do?

and do you mean strikers or shooters

[dry pumice]

What?

Ah.

35 with an extra

[wind wren]

2 base so 2×2.02 so baaaasically 4

[wind wren]

Striker, should've mentioned, my bad

[latent obsidian]

• precision multi of 1.5 is it now?

or is that only on charged hits

just charged hits it seems, so the damage range is 12-24 based on your position. I'd be surprised if you are 1 tapping them from the side

[wind wren]

Only charged, on tap its 1.3

[latent obsidian]

Oh really

[wind wren]

If the wiki is to be trusted

[latent obsidian]

so the damage range depending on position is from 15.6 to 31.2

You need like 28% multi to 1 tap which is doable from nearly the side probably, seeing as it starts scaling up from a little in front

The wiki has numbers on this I think, pretty sure Tru made a page on it

https://gtfo.fandom.com/wiki/Back_Multiplier

yeah honestly should just go here first this has everything you need

Oh look like you are right too, it doesn't start at 1 it starts at 1.25

TIL

[dry pumice]

So about 60-70 degrees behind.

[latent obsidian]

Or maybe not... maybe its a weird maths offset

[wind wren]

Yeah I should really just start checking the wiki a bit more b4 I ask

[latent obsidian]

The table shows some reference values that have values increasing from 1 after all

[wind wren]

But it starts at 1.25 for what we would consider back

Visually

[latent obsidian]

Lol okay it starts at 1, the 1.25 is for fun maths at the limits of cos(theta)

so the modifier from the cos(theta) in that formula ranges from 0.75 at max to -0.25 at min

[wind wren]

My takeaway from this: the game is fucking confusing in many of its mechanics (also thanks
: D)

[dry pumice]

There's a reason weapon descriptions only say "long range, high damage"

[past mesa]

Not really it boils down to hit back do damage. The angle is just to show you how much leeway you have. Which intuitively is a lot but it is really nice to see how far it goes

[neon gust]

Lazyness

[lusty bramble]

hard to control

[arctic marten]

i think we should get some unlabeled bars instead

[wind wren]

For more accuracy yeah

[olive robin]

what level has giants right at the first room for testing reasons

[arctic marten]

r2b2

[ashen frigate]

R3A2

[hidden ridge]

r4b1 too

[ocean spindle]

r7c3

[dry pumice]

R2B2 is great. Lots of them, even. No hybrids though, I'm sorry.

[olive robin]

i am lookin for giants so these are all good

thanks all

[olive robin]

am i insane

or does spear feel worse than hammer for giant soloing

[dry pumice]

Could be...

[olive robin]

like it has more range sure

[dry pumice]

It shouldn't.

Same break points, hammer just staggers better.

[vague bridge]

hybrids are so easy to melee

[ocean spindle]

i thinkspear has longer charge time? also u cant run to a big that woke up... well u can but slowly

[dry pumice]

60 + 40 + 20
vs
78 + 35 + 17

[olive robin]

apparently spear has .1 seconds less

[dry pumice]

Even if you don't get the other backstab on it - its still an extra hit for both

So you literally trade hammers stagger for safety of range (no haymaker for your poor chin)

Which doesn't matter if you 100% the limbs every time.

The only risk is missing a limb and suffering a mean kiss for it

While hammer still staggers either way

[olive robin]

i see

so uh

why do people hate spear so much then

it chargest faster than hammer

has a lot of range

etc

[dry pumice]

3 things that hammer wins in

• 20 base damage breakpoint (oneshot biters with no consideration)
• actual sprint
• insane stagger to stunlock anything that doesn't want to cooperate

[olive robin]

and those outmatch the range of spear

[dry pumice]

Easily

Range limitation just gets bypassed with skill and aggression

[sturdy glen]

higher tap damage also contributes quite a bit

[dry pumice]

Oh yes, that

Spear quick stab is 2.0 while hammers quick swing is 3.0

In other words 50% more dmg

Spear takes 10 stabs to kill a biter, while hammer needs 7. And it stunlocks the guy while at it.

[olive robin]

so why use anything but hammer...?

[dry pumice]

EXACTLY

[sturdy glen]

exactly

[olive robin]

what the hell

they should buff the other things then

[tardy ingot]

knife

actually has a niche

[dry pumice]

This has been a point of contention ever since other melees got released.

[olive robin]

i mean ig knife is fast

[tardy ingot]

bat just needs hammer to not stagger like its on crack

spear tho

[olive robin]

but if ur in a level with consistent giants

then theres no reason to use knife

[dry pumice]

Yeah

[tardy ingot]

you dont take 4 knifes then

[sturdy glen]

I still just dont see a reason to run knife ever

[olive robin]

and uh

[tardy ingot]

2 hammers are enough

[dry pumice]

Knife is small guy massacre

[olive robin]

some levels just have tons of giants

[sturdy glen]

it is faster

but you literally never need it

[olive robin]

ok so

[tardy ingot]

1 knife in a crew is a lot faster and conserves stam for small clear

[sturdy glen]

hammers already fast

[olive robin]

should they buff the other 3

or nerf hammer

[dry pumice]

But yes, everything round here needs a buff.

[tardy ingot]

You litteraly never need hammer being op either tbf

[dry pumice]

Both really.

[ocean spindle]

nerf hamer stagger :3

[tardy ingot]

buff spear
Nerf hammer

[sturdy glen]

thats not the same argument

but ok

[tardy ingot]

knife is fine (hitbox aside maybe)

[dry pumice]

Everyone wants to nerf hammer stagger but I don't like it

[sturdy glen]

knife hitbox fix PLEASE

[dry pumice]

I'd rather they just nerd sprint on it as wel

[tardy ingot]

bat is fine, could be buffed but nerfing hammers stagger buffs it

[tardy ingot]

No f off

[dry pumice]

Heavy weapon can't sprint, makes 100% sense

[ocean spindle]

what

[sturdy glen]

I should not be able to get full back damage on a knife hit offscreen

[tardy ingot]

hammer always sprinted

spear not sprinting is the issue

[ocean spindle]

i mean but then its just an spear without the range an with more base dmg

[dry pumice]

And what about the small light melees

That sprint exactly the same

[olive robin]

so nerf knife...?

[past mesa]

Fastest way to kill the game gut the melee more

[olive robin]

i feel like they should just uhhh

make knife able to at least sorta deal with gians?

[tardy ingot]

What

[olive robin]

not like as good

[tardy ingot]

no lol

[olive robin]

but just functional

[past mesa]

It can

[tardy ingot]

wtf is that take

[olive robin]

you wanted to fix the hitbox

[past mesa]

The issue is hitbox

[tardy ingot]

aka make it better

[olive robin]

better would just mean smaller

[sturdy glen]

you could solo a giant if the hitbox wasnt shit

itd be REALLY hard still

[tardy ingot]

knife shouldnt cleanly contribute to giants

You rly usually are at best just giving occiput burst to a group

[sturdy glen]

but at least itd be "possible"

(it is technically possible rn but its so ridiculously inconsistent I dont care)

I love when the knife user comes to r5e1

[dry pumice]

I've been suggesting extra backstab damage on knife for ages, but I'm not sure if it can be programmed.
Spear just needs like 3 extra buffs there and there and it's fine.

Bat however is one that kinda gets shafted by hammer just being his bigger stronger brother.

[sturdy glen]

and gets everyone killed in the first giant zone

[olive robin]

just give it more precision damage

[tardy ingot]

This wont matter?

[past mesa]

Knife user baits melee kills team

Name a more classic combo

[olive robin]

itll make it do more damage to the back which is a weakspot

[tardy ingot]

Actually oof moments

Also jish, where hitless?

[sturdy glen]

back isnt a weakspot

[tardy ingot]

beth and bread were missing ya

[sturdy glen]

its a diff thing

[tardy ingot]

^

[past mesa]

I go to school

[tardy ingot]

no jish

[past mesa]

And work

I get time next week after the round of midterms are over

[dry pumice]

Good luck

I will agree on hammer stagger nerf precisely on 1 condition: it stops being a hammer.

Make into a machete or a makeshift sword, whatever looks best for the game style.

THEN they can just read hammer as a new 5th melee

Fuck your sprint, fuck your stamina, fuck your charging time

25 base, bitch

Perfect.

[tardy ingot]

Hammer didnt have a 5x stagger for 5 rundowns

[dry pumice]

What did it had?

And what changed, precisely?

Are smalls still stunlocked?

[jagged shore]

before it at least had 4 base damage (1tap occi) and no stamina

[past mesa]

It had 1

Charged stagger

And light stagger

[dry pumice]

Ew.

I don't know, it would be so weird if a small metal stick was better at making monsters flinch than a brick to the face. It just doesn't make sense.

[olive robin]

small metal stick

actually a giant drill head you stab into them

[dry pumice]

I'm reffering to bat

maybe if bat also delivered a shock charge, Half-Life 2 combine baton style

Whatever they will find easier to model

Actually what the fuck

We already have a solution

The cut axe model!

Just swap it to that!

Oh god, its so infuriating when the solution is right there but there's nothing you can do

[olive robin]

ngl

axe woulda been sick

replace bat with axe

maybe let it actually hit multiple enemies

and have a more sweepy attack

[ocean spindle]

:[

my bat...

[ocean spindle]

no >:[

my bats my bat leave it

he is beautiful

[dry pumice]

I cant tell if you can't read or i can't write

Probably latter honestly.

I'm saying: i'll eat the hammer stagger nerf, but in turn we swap hammer model to axe model, the bat remains untouched

[ocean spindle]

oh

idk i saw like 'maybe if bat also delivered a shock charge, Half-Life 2 combine baton style'
and then u said 'the cut axe model, swap it to to that'

and then the message crab sent

and i was like no dont replace bat wtf

mah bad

[olive robin]

Destroy the busted weapon to make a new balanced one

[quick pebble]

I’ve just started using knife :3

[ocean spindle]

:3 nice

[hazy wedge]

I like the knife

[craggy pier]

knife good
cut fish
put posion and a gps device
target eats poisoned fish and dies
the older brother attends the funeral
location confirmed

[olive robin]

How unlikely is a melee rebalance in r8 to make hammer not hands down best

[sturdy glen]

you literally just learned this and youre already asking that

just go play the game more

[olive robin]

I'm suffering from short term memory loss as you can see

[past mesa]

Hammer being the strongest is best for the game tbh

[cold quarry]

very unlikely a lot of people would bitch

I don't think they'd have the guts to dethrone sledge and deal with the fallout but i'd be pleasantly surprised if they did

[olive robin]

They should dethrone sledge and "buff" the other ones

I say "buff" because it would be exceedingly minor

[hazy wedge]

Easy, just add an axe to the game. Chop everything in half!

[vague bridge]

morning star

[cold quarry]

crash axe/machete would be so unbelievably based

[olive robin]

What would it do

What would the defining feature be

[past mesa]

It would be a hammer skin

Hype

[cold quarry]

cleave

finally, a hel melee

[past mesa]

Spear is crying right now

[olive robin]

Literally sweeping attacks that hit multiple enemies

But idk give it a longer charge up

[cold quarry]

i was thinking bat stats but no stun

can kill multiple if you land the multi-headshot

[olive robin]

Acc yea that makes sense

Maybe a bit slower than bat

Like 1.25 charge

Can't just make it a better bat

[ocean spindle]

q-q

[vague bridge]

sounds like a morningstar

[left maple]

will gtfo get a sale for one of the upcoming holidays?

[ashen frigate]

We do not know when the next content update will drop (Rundown 8), but in the past it often was accompanied with a sale

[left maple]

which holiday do u think it might happen on?

[ashen frigate]

We can only guess at this point. Historically a number of Rundowns were released around the Game Awards ceremony, in early December

[left maple]

ah alrighty thanks!

[ashen frigate]

But we cannot know for sure if they plan to release R8 at that time and date (or if its development cycle will be finished by then)

[left maple]

ahh

[cold quarry]

definitely for christmas

[lucid sonnet]

Spear recently got buffed for allowing sprinting while charging & extra precision damage....still people think it's just worse hammer?

(I ain't making a claim just curious what people think with more hours than me)

[minor fractal]

Partial sprint is better than no sprint, but full sprint is still better than both.

The precision damage gives it a genuine niche, but hammer is still better for more things. There's not really many situations where the extra precision is adding much to a sufficiently experienced player's existing play patterns.

[lucid sonnet]

So it's not that hammer is strictly better just that spear doesn't have enough of an advantage for people with experience to bother switching?

[dry pumice]

Something like that

Hammer got sprint, can stunlock anything that moves, and... It deals 20 raw damage on full charge

Which means it can just nuke biters without consideration

While Spear has to bother with aiming for the head.

[minor fractal]

Most melee weapon balance issues arguably stem from Hammer being a bit overloaded atm (its stagger multi is the big offender), and so it's very difficult for anything else to compete with it.

Hammer's design also just makes it desirable. It's what the game was balanced around originally, and it maintains its role as the all-purpose highest base damage option. It probably should be the case that hammer is the preferred melee.

[dry pumice]

The only legit advantage spear legit got over hammer is soloing giants at half the skill

While hammers have to put extra effort to avoid getting punched

[lucid sonnet]

That's how I understand it...still seems bat's hypothetical niche of having massive stagger in practice isn't actually really a thing? (because hammer)

And if you want a quick weapon for small enemies just use knife....?

[dry pumice]

Knife is honestly a meme weapon

[minor fractal]

Bat's place is having a similar play pattern as the knife while also not being completely terrible into giants (it's actually very good).

[lucid sonnet]

Does continuously charging bat attacks stun lock a giant?

[minor fractal]

I think light spam w/ sufficient back damage does, otherwise you need limb breaks.

[lucid sonnet]

Cause it says 72 charged stagger damage, and giant has 40 stagger hp

I assume the stagger number means it adds an effective multiplier onto chance to stagger but not actual hp dealt

(treats it as dealing more damage for purposes of stagger without actually dealing more damage)

[minor fractal]

Yep.

I am reading your question in a specific way, I think.

If you just want to cause stagger, then yes, easily.

If you want to prevent scream, then no, it takes too long to charge and light stagger is too short an animation.

Same for melee attacks. You can prevent tongues easily, but if you don't space properly you're gonna get -40'd

[lucid sonnet]

I see, thanks

[icy cave]

It's worse in the sense that hammer is OP. Spear is just not a great mêlee. It's a weak meh at best

[tardy ingot]

You can soft stagger chain a giant with bat if you do charge hits

[hidden ridge]

should be a steam sale tomorrow, in like 30 hours or so, I'm pretty sure GTFO will be in that because spooky game+halloween

[icy cave]

"spooky"

[wind wren]

Knife hit boxes seem complete bs, sometimes when I'm very clearly waaaay off target it still hits head, [sometimes other way around (by which I mean I aim at head but hit body) but I just assume that to be skill issue]. Is there a way to "abuse" that odd hitbox? Or can some1 explain how that hit box works/actually looks like in relation to what we see? (Actuslly is it exactly what we see and the crosshairs to be disregarded? It feels like it's a guideline and the animation is the actual tell which I've never encountered in a shooter)

/link smth that explains it

[vague bridge]

if you want it to hit where you see, swing earlier

if you want to look like a master stabber you can adjust your aim to where the hitbox starts

[craggy pier]

I agree with this person

Knofe hitboxes originate from your side. If you stand shoulder to shoulder with a sleeper and stab the empty space Infront of you, the hitbox will catch the sleeper

It starts from your right side

Justice for knife hitboxes please

You can't make a precision melee weapon and then give it shitass hitboxes that completely ruin that idea in practice

Like cmon

[vague bridge]

if you don't like the hitboxes you must not be playing knife a lot

i personally enjoy them a lot

[quick pebble]

As a new knife user the hit boxes are nice

[wind wren]

After trying it out more I also love them but Holy fuck they are incredibly off the crosshairs

They seem to be very lenient

[quick pebble]

That’s only if your extremely close though

Because they start on the sides

If your the right distance away it goes to the crosshair

[craggy pier]

Let me knife a giant in stealth

Give me hitboxes that stay near my crosshead

[tardy ingot]

just dont?

also you already can

[craggy pier]

But it's extremely wack

[turbid horizon]

bait punched

K nife him

[craggy pier]

I hit the boi on the shin the hitmarker goes to the hip

[turbid horizon]

[craggy pier]

Aint reliable

[turbid horizon]

sounds like a ski-

[craggy pier]

Does baiting punches work in stealth

Skissue

Won't the giant have a chance to scream if you try and bait

[vague bridge]

yeah

[craggy pier]

So what

Is the goal here

Gimme good hitbomxes

:v

[vague bridge]

the hitboxes arent the issue though

you could connect every shot and he still be screaming

[quick pebble]

Oh I do this with bots all the time

You break a limb on first hit then step back

Then everyone just jump him and it’ll keep staggering

[vague bridge]

bots like to stand inside them

which basically makes it a death sentence for everybody

[quick pebble]

No they usually crouch up to him after I make the first hit

[vague bridge]

and then dont move or flinch when the giant goes for the hit

if you have 2 or 3 people its always a routine to kill the guys

[quick pebble]

No I’ve cleared the r1b1 fog room full of big guys with only me taking damage from them

Because I failed to step back once

[vague bridge]

what

i want the bots you're having

[quick pebble]

My bots gang up on anything that gets activated while in stealth

Then we have a wave to kill and they just stare at me

[vague bridge]

my bots actively run out of scans to look at the enemies and do nothing

they'll run up, charge their melee, uncharge, pull out their gun, and go down

[quick pebble]

[craggy pier]

They prevent you frok consistently breaking limbs

They are exactly the issue

[vague bridge]

not really

[sturdy glen]

they do

elbow is correct

most of the melees can hit shit not directly in front of you, but the fact that you can only do it intentionally with them makes it ok

knife on the other hand

you do that shit by accident and its an active detriment

just because you can get used to it doesnt mean ppl have to like it

[hidden ridge]

🤔

[torn dawn]

Is gronk from “gronks new grove” responsible for the virus?

[ocean spindle]

mayb

[dry pumice]

sus

[vague bridge]

i really don't see a situation where you accidentally hit someone to the right of the big guy while swinging

im assuming you're keeping distance as well so you cant hit the wrong body part

[olive robin]

The secret is to make a mod that fixes the hitbox and download it for yourself

[soft crater]

[runic slate]

Anyone happen to know what rundown and level has the earliest scout? I mean a scout spawning within the first few rooms. Something like that.

[ocean spindle]

u can try r7b1 which has three scouts in the first three zones, two alone one with enemies if u wanna practice that

[runic slate]

Sweet. Thank you

[fleet shadow]

whats the rough angle of the scattergun cone? i cant really feel how big the cone is personally

[past mesa]

Change your fov to 55

The hip fire cone is now accurate

[fleet shadow]

assuming vertical fov is what you mean? that is like HALF of what i have now lmao

[past mesa]

Correct this is the same for all guns

[fleet shadow]

damn ok

[past mesa]

The hip fire indicator is only accurate on 55

[jagged shore]

or use a mod for it

[cold quarry]

r2e1 has one in the first room if you have it unlocked

[native sun]

Shotgun cones be hard (there's like a cone + random shot spread so its weirdly hard to calculate), so I believe not all of the crosshair mods try to fix it.

[jagged shore]

Dinorush's AccurateCrosshair does it

[past mesa]

Dino rush is a goat when it come to the weapon stat shower

Honestly one of the best modded additions to the game

[soft crater]

<-< weapon stat shower..

funny how it looks exactly like someone else's mod

[past mesa]

Who’s?

[soft crater]

Archive

Aurirex

[past mesa]

Understandable

MB auri

[soft crater]

the thunderstore one has extra stuff added tho like hits to kill and etc

[past mesa]

Is auris on thunderstore

[soft crater]

github

[past mesa]

See this is why I don’t know of it

[jagged shore]

what? did dinorush put that on there? cause if i search dinorush there's only accuratecrosshair lol

[soft crater]

Archive is also what Mako uses btw Jish

[ocean spindle]

i just saw a message

of someone postin a link

and now i dont find it

[soft crater]

[past mesa]

Dino made something that grabs all the stats and put them in two a spreadsheet

[native sun]

mood

[jagged shore]

ohhhhh
that's not what i thought you meant lol fair enough

[past mesa]

I thought after player infernal that that was what what needed and made into a mod

Learning now auri is holding out on me

[native sun]

Is dino's spreadsheet as pretty as mine though? 🥺

[past mesa]

Makes sense seems like a good collections of things

[past mesa]

No from what I remember

But Dino did give all of infernal weapon stats

Which is a big deal

If you like that mod cause s+++++ dmg

Is hard to understand what it means

[native sun]

My stat scraper is updated to work on anything now, if you ever want one just lmk

[past mesa]

Nice might be useful one day if I need to double check I didn’t fuck weapon values

[craggy pier]

It's funny that this game does this too

It randomly fires a shot inside the cone, and then the pellets spread around that imaginary bullet

[blissful atlas]

Hi im new to gtfo and have a question in regard to security alarms. How does enemies spawning work during alarms/ how does their pathing work. Ive read somewhere they would always spawn 2 rooms away but in some playthroughs my group got the feeling that this wasnt really consistent

[latent obsidian]

What level were you on that it felt inconsistent? In general they will try and follow that 2 room rule but at the start of some levels there aren't enough rooms to accomodate that

[icy cave]

They always spawn 2 rooms away from you

[craggy pier]

Alarm goes off

Game checks if there's a room that's seperated from the room you're in with another room

If this exists, they will spawn there
If many of these exist, they will spawn in any of these
If there is nothing like this, they will spawn in the next room over

[icy cave]

Exceptions would be there where it's impossible (R2E1 start)

[craggy pier]

Doesn't the door count

[blissful atlas]

Ty so much for the answers than i think we messed up with the doors then

[icy cave]

one room away

[craggy pier]

Yea won't they spawn there

[blissful atlas]

if an enemy would walk through 2 rooms without doors or 1 room with a door which path would they take?

[icy cave]

they will that's why R2E1 start is exception, no 2 rooms away

[craggy pier]

The open door i think

[icy cave]

probably open door

[craggy pier]

They take the path of least resistance

You can use this to funnel em as well

[icy cave]

you got a specific alarm in mind??

[blissful atlas]

no just in general

for future planing of alarm doors

[latent obsidian]

I'm not sure if they'd walk through a whole extra room to avoid breaking a door

[blissful atlas]

So the answer is it depends on the map layout?

[latent obsidian]

Yes

[icy cave]

other exception: uplinks. Rule there is: 2 rooms away but confined to your zone. so if there is only 1 room away in your zone they'll spawn there

[latent obsidian]

Also specifically where the enemies spawn in the room 2 rooms away varies, and if they spawn near a door they will be more likely to break it

Say you left one of two doors open in a room 2 away which they spawn in, most of the time they will run out of the open door, but if they spawn near the closed one they might just break that down anyway

to the best of my understanding

[blissful atlas]

Allright ty so much for all of your answers I will keep that in mind in our next playthrough <3

[latent obsidian]

.t lfg

[uneven gulch]

Hello! If you are unaware, we have Looking For Group (LFG) channels to help users group up and play the game. They are located here: #lfg-north-america / #lfg-latin-america / #lfg-eastern-europe / #lfg-western-europe / #lfg-asia / #lfg-oceania / #lfg-africa / #lfg-beginners.

If you are unsure of how to create or join a lobby, please see the instructions here: #how-to-matchmake.

[craggy pier]

Smh you bullied him into deleting his message ellda so toxic

[latent obsidian]

[craggy pier]

[verbal grove]

It's more for the devs but it's a chance that they see this: Will ever Dauda learn basic manners and will have "Thank you" voice line?

[native sun]

Devs are already aware that Dauda is missing some voice lines. See: #gtfo-chat message

[latent obsidian]

Ah, Tru, just the guy I was looking for

[verbal grove]

Good

[latent obsidian]

We were talking about enemy pathing during alarms just above and I was wondering if you would consider this as an area of a focus if you are continuing to add detailed articles to the wiki. How they make decisions on open doors/closed doors/cfoamed doors and such. Not sure if theres enough there to be worth writing about but it seems important and also somewhat nebulous

[native sun]

Definitely something I'd consider. Though it's a bit lower on the list for me, as it's something that feels kinda 'solved' for practical purposes.

As far as I know though they don't care at all if the door is foamed or not. They'll happily run up to a foamed door even if there is un-foamed doors available.

[latent obsidian]

People have told me that sleepers will gravitate towards closed doors they pass near if they lead to the player before. Is this based on proximity to the door or on some calculation of the time it will take to break the door as opposed to running around through an alternate open path?

[hidden ridge]

Are they also aware of Bishop (or was it Hackett?) having swapped voicelines for Yes/No during alarms?

[native sun]

I believe proximity, since you can force them to reroute to very far open doors even with a 1 HP door. But if they're already too close to the door they'll start hitting even if there's an open door 2ft away.

[native sun]

No clue

[graceful horizon]

I stream on kick and I was wondering if there was a way I could join the creators program

[latent obsidian]

You should probably send a dm to Community-Calle about that

[graceful horizon]

Thank you

[wind wren]

Is lickIng considered melee or projectile? Or just some whole other category?

[hidden ridge]

Melee I'm pretty sure

[olive robin]

Lick is a melee despite it's incredible range

Only projectiles from shooters/big shooters/hybrids/scout/kraken/maybe spitters? Are projectile dmg

[tardy ingot]

This @icy cave @craggy pier @blissful atlas

They avoid going through extra rooms if they can.

What breaks this at times is what ellda asked tru about with them getting too close to a door

[latent obsidian]

Do you know if there is some logic the sleepers follow for grouping up on the same door to break into a room rather than splitting up and each taking whatever is closer?
Example: R6C1 going into the alarm room before the giant zone, if I pull the room leading into there and then go in and shut the door, what is going to decide which door they break? Because on different runs each of the 3 doors have been broken, but I don't recall a time when more than one has been broken. Whichever door has the cloest sleeper is the one the whole horde picks?

[dry pumice]

I think they pick the shortest route (whether total or to get out of the room I don't know) and start slamming that. The split probably happens if the horde spawns in such a way that diffent individual sleepers calculate different shortest routes.

[latent obsidian]

Thats the thing though, in my experience I have very rarely seen them split

[dry pumice]

They also just attack the doors they come too close to, just because.

[latent obsidian]

They choose differently on different occasions but haven't broken multiple doors at once

[dry pumice]

I think I had them split on R6A1 if going from zone 77(?)

[tardy ingot]

because usually they just spawn somewhat together?

[dry pumice]

They broke both doors on the left

[latent obsidian]

I'm talking pulled room here rather than an alarm wave

[dry pumice]

Oh... Thats harder to calc.

[latent obsidian]

I'm entering the alarm room, I shoot just before I close the door because I want to mine the previous room

But then they sometimes go to the wrong door

[tardy ingot]

i dunno exactly

[latent obsidian]

I know I can pull a little earlier to increase my odds, but I am curious about the mechanics of it

[dry pumice]

Sleepers will generally just try to get to you, but some of them will end up by power of rng too close to other doors and they will attack them through pure proximity

[latent obsidian]

Unless I'm just remembering wrong what I've seen contradicts that though

The room I'm pulling is pretty big, there are likely sleepers near me and far away (near other doors). After pulling the room and going into the next by that logic I would expect them to break multiple doors at the same time

[dry pumice]

I mean real close proximity

[latent obsidian]

But as far as I recall they only ever broke one, which is more often than not the one near me (as they alerted and ran over towards it probably), but sometimes the distant doors (maybe there was a sleeper nearer to it)

[dry pumice]

Like 2-3 meters

Sleeper will get magnetised to the door and forced to break it

[latent obsidian]

Hmm okay, that can't happen too often then

[dry pumice]

Yep

[latent obsidian]

An unlucky alarm wave spawn and some specific tiles

[dry pumice]

Yeah

Notably I had it happen on R4D2

I wanted the assholes to take a long way around, but they spawned hugging the door I closed and broke it anyway

No mine, no Cfoam...

Entire strategy straight to the trash bin

Fucking

[hidden ridge]

This is my speculation but

they try to get the minimum distance (not walking distance, just draw a line) from their point of entry in a room to the closest door that leads them to where you are

Which is why closing both doors in R1B1's second alarm makes them always go for the one downstairs

Because it's closer to the sec door which is the only way they come from

Of course, if they dont enter a room from the same place (they spawn one wave in Room A and one in Room B)

or if you wake them up and some are already close to a door

the calc gets skewed

I also remember asking here how player position inside a room influenced their pathing, if it did.

But I faintly remember someone answering "it does but not as much as you think"

And not elaborating further

[latent obsidian]

That all seems pretty reasonable, I might do some testing tonight with the rooms leading to the first R6B1 alarm and watch how they move on the bio

[magic birch]

hello everyone, I got a question for you all : which special weapon is the best ? in term of dmg/multiple shot/stability/feeling ?

[floral acorn]

learn to handle veruta recoil and chargeup, all u need 🙂

[ocean spindle]

there isnt really a best, special weapon

[dry pumice]

Machine guns.

[ocean spindle]

on dmg well scattergun, probs on feel wins too, but damn it is, niche MKSMDK

it works really well but a super shotgun with short range its funky

[dry pumice]

They disqualify you from giant killing though, somewhat.

[ocean spindle]

but well yeh for specials u always, need different weapons for each mission

on a horde one a machinegun its well, but like on a big level filled with giants

[icy cave]

15 bullets in the back that's 4 giants a mag

[ocean spindle]

probs more a shotgun, on a charger level, a hel rifle

on a speedy big level maybs even a sniper

[magic birch]

aight gotta try it

[magic birch]

I was thinking too but I kinda wanna try rifle like hel, veruta etc

[magic birch]

seems a bit off to me

[floral acorn]

short bursting precision, almost infinite ammo (kinda)

[ocean spindle]

its very short range and very small ammo, i get if u think it lol, but it is a oneshot on a big from point blank

from the front

[magic birch]

it's for the first time of maps, I wanted to know which weapon you guys think is the most valuable and best feeling

[ocean spindle]

and theres, no guns that can do that except the sniper and sometimes burst cannon

[dry pumice]

Oh god, I forgot Combat Shotgun exists again.

[ocean spindle]

for the first maps tbh, kinda everythin, cause they are not the hardest

u can try yeah combat shottie which is easy

normal shottie which has a very big mag and good dmg if u find a level with bigs

machinegun to learn of the recoil, either veruta or arbalist it doesnt matter both are good

and if u want maybs more precision weapons, sniper for bigs to practice even if it isnt super necessary, or revolver for small enemies which is good if u master it

in general others llike heavy assaulrt rifle hel rifle precision rifle, they have their uses and some are very good like hel rifle, but they are a lil tiny bit more niche

and serve more specific purposes, like hel rifle againts some type of enemy, or heavy assault rifle being very good but very heavy on recoil

[magic birch]

aight, I will follow your tips, thanks !

[craggy pier]

remember to pick hammer for melee and nothing else

[ocean spindle]

but bat :>

[icy cave]

👆👆👆

[craggy pier]

the bat club is way over there in the rural area

[icy cave]

This can't be stressed enough

[ocean spindle]

q-q

[minor fractal]

For learning the game, I would highly recommend either HAR or HCP.

Both weapons are fairly easy to understand, but reward good combat fundamentals.

[olive robin]

The best mains are carbine and hel revolver. Carbine for new people, hel revolver for experienced

[soft kiln]

where is the orange glowsticks

[minor fractal]

And as a new player, combat fundamentals are a the main skill curve in combat that you want to deal with.

Generally it's not worthwhile to go out of your way to learn weapon-specific mechanics if you're still coming to grips with the game.

[ocean spindle]

nowhere :3

[brazen hemlock]

what weapons should i give the bots

[dry pumice]

Burst Rifle + Machine Gun (any)

[brazen hemlock]

alright thx

[finite oracle]

how does different percentages of artificial heat affect boosters?

[ocean spindle]

artifact heat its a way to measure how valuable are artifacts to the progress of a booster, it doesnt affect boosters themselves
for example
100% artifact heat means one muted artifact gives 0.20% of a booster
but 50% artifact heat means one muted artifact will give 0.10
when the number hits 1.00, a booster is given.

[civic wave]

100% is 0.15, not 0.20

also conversion between decimals and percentages

[dry pumice]

You're telling me its 7 boosters till artifact?

[civic wave]

yes

[dry pumice]

Huh... Doesn't feel right.

[civic wave]

well boosters suck anyway so

[arctic marten]

wrong

terminal speed boosters go crazy

[ocean spindle]

i need to learn the values i just put random ones as an example

[craggy pier]

do you have to? game most likely dying 3 months after r8

[ocean spindle]

its so i can, explain to people correctly

and also why not

not like in here we dont immediatly learn the new numbers of weapons that r rebalanced lol

[cerulean trellis]

Any place to recommend changes? or nah

[craggy pier]

do we have to? u can take whatever gun and still finish an expedition

its mostly sweats who care bout the 0.15... dmg numbers

[ocean spindle]

ok ill take bat

[craggy pier]

dps by +1%

recoil control slightly harder

[ocean spindle]

i think there was an email to send recommendations in #community-news or somewhere around there

lemme see if i can find the message

[cerulean trellis]

kk, cuz if its a 2/3 way tie for the cashout while its being captured would like it to go into sudden death like mode instead of just ending

[ocean spindle]

im sorry?

i dont, get that sentence very well but

#discord-announcements message i found it

[lunar rain]

Do they plan to fix r7d1 anytime or no? Specifically the overload with snatchers

[craggy pier]

99% no

[wind wren]

Whats the hardest lvl in the game? I've heard many say r5e1 but even more say it's r4e1

And some say r7e1

[craggy pier]

r5e1 if they didnt remove tank

[arctic marten]

its r2e1 because artek said so

[dry pumice]

It's either 4 or 5

[arctic marten]

hey you changed your mind

no fair

[wind wren]

All hail whatever artek says

[dry pumice]

Okay let's see

[ocean spindle]

training :] is the hardest

if u go for the incorrect route

[dry pumice]

Hmmmm

I feel like generally speaking R4 is far more malicious towards the player. Intense secondary and a very mean final surprise.

R5 is just brute strength up yours.

[wind wren]

Artek right

R4e1 harder

[arctic marten]

r5e1 is harder because you fall asleep halfway through

[ashen frigate]

Unless you cell skip

[wraith kindle]

How good are the bots at aiming at the tumors on ||Mothers|| and ||Big Mothers||?

[ocean spindle]

very, eh
they shouldnt even have weapons to deal with em tbh, u should b the one with the firepower

but even so i think they just, aim at their general direction

[ashen frigate]

I do not think they prioritize weak points. Maybe this would be one way to boost them slightly without making them as overpowered as some mods have done.

[neon gust]

theyre good

mom atleast

tank its iffy

[ashen frigate]

To be honest I have not played with bots much lately ; I trust BD opinion more :)

[ocean spindle]

the only couple times i did a mom with bots, i always had to end up chasin her with my guns, also cause if u foam her shes technically not awake so ur the only one shootin

[sterile citrus]

Eh they're practically worthless vs tanks I wouldnt even say iffy personally

[turbid horizon]

nah

Just gotta know how to get a bot stuck

Then you’re golden because you let the tank focus the stuck bot and then you just unload on him

[dry pumice]

Lmao

[sterile citrus]

@turbid horizon Dont promote Dauda abuse in here like that

[arctic marten]

how do i get [BOT] Beep stuck

he keeps running around

[ashen frigate]

Dak is like "strike him, not me !"
#BotsAreHumansToo

[turbid horizon]

No idea how to get bots stuck it just happens to me with tanks sometimes

I think maaaaybe they’re trying to melee it?

But I’ve had it happen several times

[hardy grotto]

kill him

[arctic marten]

thats illegal

[sterile citrus]

Only if you're caught

[arctic marten]

not how laws work

[wraith kindle]

I want to try doing the last level of r3 with 1 friend and 2 bots, but we are worried we'd just endlessly wipe at the ||big mom|| at the end because bots can't hit the weakpoins, and as far as I'm aware the C-foam is useless for her as well

[past mesa]

it shouldnt be an issue if you take the right weapon

[neon gust]

you want bots to always be far away

to prevent them from meleeing

you dont wanna get close when facing bosses with bots

you want as much distance

[wraith kindle]

These are still the optimal bot weapons, right?
Malatack LX
Techman Veruta XII
Knife

[past mesa]

yeah

what gun are you bringing

[wraith kindle]

I usually go heavy smg + high caliber pistol on unknown levels, but for the mother I suppose I should bring a scattergun

friend will bring whatever

[past mesa]

r you hosting the game

[wraith kindle]

yes

[past mesa]

i woudlnt take sstaccter gun then

[wraith kindle]

I know it's better to have the scatter as a client

[past mesa]

other way around

[wraith kindle]

yes, typo :c

[tardy ingot]

its far far far better

[past mesa]

no worries

[arctic marten]

i would change AR out with rifle or pistol, but thats just me

[wraith kindle]

I did not know it was that much of a difference, I'll ask my friend to host then

[past mesa]

it is the diffrence between a 4 shot and like a 7 shot

big deal

as client you can solo mom no birth

[short dune]

guys am trying to play with my friend but we cant start the lobby anyone know how to solve the issue

[lusty bramble]

Have you tried starting the lobby

[tardy ingot]

4 shot?

wat

[wraith kindle]

We have to deal with the big mom, but yeah, I'll make sure to have the scatter on client, and we'll try to do it with bots, thank you! ^^

[tardy ingot]

burst cannon

[wraith kindle]

I hate that thing with a passion

[past mesa]

it is a 4 shot with a little bit of main shooting

mb

[tardy ingot]

huh
its a easy 3 shot as client on mom tho?

like you heavily overkill?

[past mesa]

on p mom?

[tardy ingot]

o

mb

[past mesa]

no worries

i didnt make clear

[tardy ingot]

i only saw their big mom after that

and assumed it was normal mom first

[wraith kindle]

normal mom is no problem

[past mesa]

yeah yeah!

[tardy ingot]

i mean for p mom its a 5 shot with some help of mains

[wraith kindle]

we wiped on the big mom within a few seconds

[past mesa]

r you shooting the babies

[lusty bramble]

Did you try killing the wave

[arctic marten]

bot response

[wraith kindle]

they killed us, but I guess yeeah

I have no idea how to deal with those, we usually can kill the regular moms before they let out too much

[past mesa]

so if you just shoot the babies first

then shoot the mom

it is safer

[tardy ingot]

have 1 or 2 guys just shoot babies on spawn

[lusty bramble]

Did you know you can shoot the spawning wave

[tardy ingot]

if you have anyone with machine gun, if they are shooting mom over babies they trolling the team

[lusty bramble]

You should try that

[past mesa]

🤯

[wraith kindle]

alright, we'll try that, we'll also try breaking LOS to bait mom closer

[past mesa]

i am so confused with you

[wraith kindle]

we tried blitzkrieg like it's a regular one, and failed miserably

[past mesa]

literally high iq stuff

[wraith kindle]

regular we usually just foam + kill before birth, or just regular kill before birth, and it's no problem

[past mesa]

high iq plays just shoot the babies

[lusty bramble]

Which level are you fighting the mom on

[past mesa]

you got this

[wraith kindle]

last level of r3

[past mesa]

r3d1

[wraith kindle]

we never had to do that before :D

[lusty bramble]

LOL

[wraith kindle]

we quickly learned if we let mom spawn the small things we wipe

so we just got into the habit of always just blitzing the mom

[short dune]

still need some help guys

[past mesa]

just kill them as they spawn

[craggy pier]

rush pmom 3 blast her tumors 1 deal with babies and if u have cfoam even better use it where she is about to spawn babies

[past mesa]

join vc 5

[lusty bramble]

Did you know if you kill the mom she will die

It will prevent you dying

[stuck elm]

pMom spawns a lot more babies. You're gonna have to shoot them most likely even f you rush in.

[wraith kindle]

alright, I'll have to go know, thanks for the help

[arctic marten]

try verifying game files, and i think check for vpns

[lusty bramble]

There's a lot of great advice here

Like shooting the spawning babies

That's good advice

Did someone let them know they could do that

Does anyone know a workaround of getting the new cosmetic if you can't beat a level

I want the new limited time cosmetic but I can't beat a level

[arctic marten]

ask darkeva for a carry

[lusty bramble]

Darkeva

Such a twisted soul..m

A true badass in the complex...

I met darkeva at the con this year and I really liked his tf2 spy cosplag

But I didn't know what character he was disguised as??

When I asked he telepathically told me off before I was dragged off my ten chambers security for free speech

[neon gust]

Is this what a midlife crisis looks like

[lusty bramble]

I tried to salvage my con experience by getting a photo with a cosplayer that it thought looked cool but community Calle called what I was doing "creepy"

Tell your girlfriend to center her logo

Don't skull me mother of fuck

[tardy ingot]

beep

are you ok

[lusty bramble]

Going to step up to me big man? Your life would be forfeit under circumstances

Lfg channel 34 747276472876221

[tardy ingot]

not even in the channel smh

[lusty bramble]

Sorry that's the wrong code

[ashen frigate]

Imagine the lobby code not starting with "10977524454"

[lusty bramble]

I tried to write it from memory because I couldn't figure out how to copy and paste it

I will try again in 2 months time as winter is approaching

[arctic marten]

Bro was locked in a room with post-vacation northernlion for 24 hours and has gone insane

[tropic vine]

wdym the defrosting has begun

[lusty bramble]

I use r7d1 to generate enough heat to keep my house warm during these colder months

[wind wren]

How many cfoam nades for a pmom?

[ashen frigate]

3

[wind wren]

Thanks

[loud sentinel]

anyone else had it where entering R6C1 crashes? we've done it before when R6 first came but now that its back I cant enter C1 without crashing in the elevator, if anyone has any idea for a fix for that lemme know

[ocean spindle]

ik theres a scout one, called like scout playground or somethin like that

i saw the message haha

[wind wren]

Are there any mods to practice enemies/what are the best ones if there are

Yeah I wanted to rephrase it

I'll look it up and just try it out, thanks

[native sun]

Some of the mods wouldn't be appropriate for promoting on this server, so I'll send you a DM

[past mesa]

Hate to tell on myself true I do tell people about them

[native sun]

I know, but it's a bit different when a mod mentions them, might come across as being officially sanctioned

[past mesa]

Will be taking my ban thank you

[native sun]

bonk

[waxen jetty]

Jish

speak spanish right now

[past mesa]

¿Por que?

[waxen jetty]

bannable

[loud sentinel]

found the sollution, and nearly beat someone for it but all good!

[dry pumice]

What was it?

@loud sentinel

[neon gust]

Donde esta la.biblioteca

[ocean spindle]

en la zona 2

[neon gust]

Pingeando tembolos

[loud sentinel]

Windows update which also tried to add windows 11 but I fixed that

[dry pumice]

Fascinating

[proper storm]

Wait, do you have to do missions in order ?

[ocean spindle]

nope

i mean inside a rundown as long as u have it unlock u can do it, deeper missions get unlocked by doin others

but u can start in any rundown

and if ur host has everythin unlocked then yeah u can do, whatever u want

[proper storm]

alright i see , thanks

[ocean spindle]

usually the strat its startin in order tho if ur new

from r1 to r2, and if u get stuck, jump to the next rundown

[proper storm]

yeah, it's gonna be my first ever mission so i wanted to know how it worked!

[ocean spindle]

oki yeh better to start from the tutorial training, then r1a1

[proper storm]

already did the tutorial yeah, just seeing about finding peeps to do it then, thanks for the info

[ocean spindle]

oki, good luck with ur runs
and remembs to always ask to not get carried, and check everyone in ur lobby is on urvc

[proper storm]

will do!

[topaz granite]

Can you join a game for a floor you haven't unlocked

[ocean spindle]

yes as long as the host has it unlocked

[quasi night]

how do I become hacket

[ocean spindle]

u join when hacketts free
so its host, person, u join, last person

it just gives the characters as u join the lobby

[quasi night]

Thats what it felt like, however counter argument.. just lemme be hacket

[ocean spindle]

counter argument

dauda is based

[quasi night]

My enjoyment of this game is radically improved by being a schizophrenic irishman

[quasi night]

I do not disagree

but he aint irish

[ocean spindle]

hes nigerian which is even more based

[past mesa]

There is a mod that allows you to become that player slot

@jagged shore

[quasi night]

thanks for the quick answer by the way

[quasi night]

les goooo

[ocean spindle]

i would get if i u hated bishi cause british, vomits

[quasi night]

I dont hate any of em yet, I just love hacket

I mean I remember his name and no one elses and i havent played in monthss

[jagged shore]

yeah i made a mod that lets you choose which slot you get when you create a lobby
if you want to pick which one when joining a lobby, you need the host to be a bro and hook you up though

[ocean spindle]

:[

[past mesa]

Is it on thunderstore

[jagged shore]

yes

[sturdy glen]

hackett good cuz hood good

[jagged shore]

ChangeHostSlot

[quasi night]

we love that

[past mesa]

My bad thought it was just DLL

[quasi night]

also yes

[ocean spindle]

qwq

[stuck geyser]

Oh since I have the thought: what is the purpose of the terminals you can find in game? I came across one in training but had no idea what to do with it. I probably missed something…

[ocean spindle]

the terminals are a way to find information about a level or complete objectives, with them you can figure out where some items are, see what some zones contain or, in the case of the tutorial, mark the exact position of an item, specifically a key

it works by writin on em, the example the game gives u its PING KEY_GREEN_123
so u must do the same thing, but with the specific key u need to find

like KEY_WHITE_771 or something

[stuck geyser]

Ah alright… I remember getting on it and feeling the blood leave my face as I stared into an empty black screen with a faint green typing prompt to the far left haha

[ocean spindle]

when u drop into the first level, the terminals will show way more functions, id recommend just satyin on one and playin with it to learn it as much as u can

they are some of the most important mechanics of all of gtfo

[stuck geyser]

Okay, that’s good to know. A couple minutes ago those things scared me more than the game itself

Anyway, Thank you

[umbral sapphire]

can anybody tell me which expeditions have pumpkins? and if theres anything special about them

[fierce walrus]

They are just cosmetic

Pumpkins dont change a thing

and i think they are in every mission with the labs or gardens environments

[ocean spindle]

think i only remember em in gardens

so r7b1 r7d1

[fierce walrus]

Dont they replace the ferns in labs aswell?

[ocean spindle]

they r just, pumpknins

[fierce walrus]

Maybe im just delusional

[ocean spindle]

idk, the only other plants i remember are grass in floodways

like in pots with lights

not just in the ground

[fierce walrus]

Labs has ferns growing in pots

atleast some levels have them

i would think those have been changed into pumpkins as well

[icy cave]

Master them. most important mechanic to learn.

[soft crater]

To be fair. The one in training only allows you to use "ping" and nothing else.

[dreamy canyon]

So whats the benefit of the bat over the knife other than being able to stagger chargers and giants? feels like using basic m1 to stun regular strikers makes a lot more noise than just killing them, having a hard time finding a use for the stun outside of the above 2 enemies

[olive robin]

The stun is for slip ups and too many guys in one spot plus you can stagger giants

Knife cannot stagger giants but it kills faster cause quick charge

But hammer is a better bat

[dreamy canyon]

ok so bat is knife training wheels that can kill giants

[icy cave]

Drop em both, grab hammer, never look back

Fixed your issue at once

[dreamy canyon]

I like knife how else are you supposed to kill a group of 4

[icy cave]

With the hammer

always the same questions

[dreamy canyon]

are you able to without aggroing a room?

[soft crater]

Bat ironically can kill smalls slightly slower than knife. But still have good enough damage to deal with giants but no range/big damage of spear/hammer

[icy cave]

Yes, but aggro is not a real issue when hammering

Look hammer is the best mêlee for a reason.

I'm sure someone has a copy pasta somewhere

[soft crater]

This is taking into consideration if you are partial charging heads of shooter/strikers which makes it be like knife.

[dreamy canyon]

but if Im needing to stealth a room how am I going to kill 4 at once with a hammer isn't the hammer chargeup too slow for that?

with knife im able to clear 5 in a row with no risk of alerting

[soft crater]

You don't full charge and hit weakpoints (head / back / head + back)

Takes awhile to learn the charges times for each spot though and learning proper positioning and movement to reach said spots

[icy cave]

he needs to learn a lot

[soft crater]

To be fair 4 enemies bunched up together solo hammer is still quite a task to do stealth for first timers

[icy cave]

better get to it fast then.

[soft crater]

It's also kinda sad bots use "shove" more often than the average player

[dreamy canyon]

I will try hammer out I suppose

[soft crater]

Just take your time and possibly look up guides if possible

[dry pumice]

Or just play for fun and not for min maxing, that's also an option.
But yes, hammer is unfortunately a winner every single time, it just doesn't have a meaningful downside while everybody else just does.

[olive robin]

Hammer should have been the slow but strong, bat the fast stunner, spear the long precision, and knife the fast strong precision

But here we are with hammer being good in most ways, spear having the slow sprint and charge up without stagger to back it, bat just doing worse hammer, and knife being fast but meaningless on giants or awake dudes cause no sleeping multiplier

[latent obsidian]

knife is great on awake dudes

[wind wren]

wdym knife bad on awake dudes? it 1taps smalls to head with 4/5th charge

[olive robin]

I can't hit backs of awake dudes p sure

Hitting the head isn't hard ig but idk the 2x sleeping bothers me

I would honestly like enhanced dodges or something

[dry pumice]

You can, by jumping behind them or just having them target someone else.

But yes, the x2 sleeping modifier on knife I honestly a very redundant mechanic. It oneshots smalls either way, and you're not allowed to attack giants either way too.
It doesn't help that knife users like sprinting and probably wake up their targets just before killing them.

[latent obsidian]

nothing personnel, sleeper

[dry pumice]

Spear could've utilised that mechanic far better but alas...

Like yeah, I get it, spooky stealthy knife gets a surprise attack bonus.

But it really is the case of "makes perfect sense on paper - does nothing in practice"

Actually... Maybe if said multiplier was waaaay higher, like x3 or x4…

Hm.

[tardy ingot]

Leads to being able to kill strikers to the back when sleeping and enables 2 hit kills on chargers

also results in strong first hits on occi against giant strikers

[dry pumice]

As I said: doesn't matter in practice. Backstabbing biters is cute I suppose, not being utterly useless against chargers helps... Giants though? How strong we are talking? 30-40 damage, something like that?

8...x2...x2... 2.25...

Huh. 65 or more.

Not sure 10% above hammer matters, but better than nothing.

No wait, wrong calc.

8 is already a prec damage... 16... 32... 48? 50?

[olive robin]

I'm pretty sure it's still less than a spear occi

Knife does 8.25 charged

1.5 precision

2x sleeping

3x giant occi

[dry pumice]

I think 8 is already with prec, is it not?

[olive robin]

No

8.25 on charges

1.5 precision on charged attacks

1x precision on uncharged

I guess it does 74.25 to giant occi

[dry pumice]

That's insane

[olive robin]

Spear does 78.75

[tardy ingot]

wtf

knife doesnt do 8

lol

[olive robin]

The benefit of knife on giants is you can get in a second charged hit to the back

[tardy ingot]

it does 5.5

[olive robin]

Ur right

I'm actually just insane holy shit

[native sun]

49.5 damage for knife occi on giant with sleeping multi
78.75 damage for spear occi on giant

[olive robin]

Dude

Buff knife god damn

Even with a second hit since it's already awake and head is broke ur doing so much less

You do like 16.5 on the second hit to the back

[dry pumice]

Knife is not meant to fight giants, so it's fine

[olive robin]

66 dmg...

[tardy ingot]

You do 11

[olive robin]

What?

[tardy ingot]

also doesnt matter

knife isnt supposed to do lots of work against giants

[olive robin]

2x back, 1.5x precision 5.5 base

[dry pumice]

I still don't really the point of it besides zoomies for fun

[tardy ingot]

but a knife can heavily impact a duo takedown if it gets first hit

[olive robin]

Knife is uh

[tardy ingot]

back isnt precision

[olive robin]

Isn't it a weak spot...?

[tardy ingot]

its a multiplier not a weakspot

[olive robin]

This is horrific

[tardy ingot]

it isnt

[olive robin]

I must go to ten chambers myself

And edit the code

Why would anyone take knife over bat

Even if there's a few dudes clustered bat can stagger them

Hanmer could too

I like knife but i can't justify taking it

[dry pumice]

We told you before, didn't we?

[native sun]

If I have a sniper rifle, why would I ever need to melee giants, and at that point, I should just take the melee that lets me kill smalls the fastest -> I should take knife

[dry pumice]

Back multi is just x2 extra damage proportional damage to position behind the enemy.

[olive robin]

My entire life is a lie man

[tardy ingot]

Charge speed, no stam usage

you rush smalls

[dry pumice]

Precision has nothing to do with it.

Different thing completely.

[olive robin]

Dumb comparison

Sniper has ammo

That's why you wouldn't

[hidden ridge]

why would anyone NOT take hammer?

[olive robin]

Exactly

Everything is ruined

My life ends here

[tardy ingot]

you underestimate knife

[olive robin]

My story comes to a close

[tardy ingot]

it isnt better than hammer but it has a niche

[hidden ridge]

I know you're being sarcastic but it ain't like you're FUCKED if you take the knife

maybe in some maps you'd be a bit of a blunder

[olive robin]

You can take it and play a level but

If you are in a level with consistent giants you are throwing

[tardy ingot]

you arent

you have teammates

[dry pumice]

I just pretend hammer doesn't exist. I no longer even register it when choosing melees.

[tardy ingot]

why would you shoot enemies if you could knife them

Shooting gun costs ammo

[dry pumice]

Same for combat shotgun and HELrev, actuslly...

[olive robin]

Why would you knife enemies if you can bat them away

[dry pumice]

Style points.

[olive robin]

So fair

[dry pumice]

Tacticool feeling.

The model of knife is veeeery nice.

[native sun]

Because knife is faster on smalls and I can just shoot the giants

[olive robin]

Mod that removes over tuned weapons when

Mandatory install

[hidden ridge]

Just dont take them?

It's like Checkpoints or boosters

[olive robin]

Yeah

[tardy ingot]

Bat is considerably slower

[olive robin]

But destroying the weapons is funnier

[olive robin]

But staggers

[tardy ingot]

Why stagger if kill

[dry pumice]

I have a recording of me murdering smalls in a fairly quick succesion, so honestly maybe dagger does have a cute niche... Still wish it had more.

I don't know, maybe it should make your walking quiter or something.

Or reduce possibility of long range wake up to 0

[hidden ridge]

I'm pretty sure it already has reduced aggro on stealth kills

[dry pumice]

It does, but not 0

[hidden ridge]

0 or not I've no idea since I touched that once

[dry pumice]

Just reduced possibility

Hammer is just the issue really, the more I think about it

[olive robin]

I want it to make the shift dodges more useful

Let knife actually weave around

[olive robin]

Alleged the stealth kill aggro thing makes the chance go from 50% to 25%

[dry pumice]

If he didn't exist - the other 3 would shine in their respective roles far better and there would be interesting consideration for team composition.

[olive robin]

Replace hammer with axe, and it's specialty is pierce

Or reduce hammer closer to bat stats, and replace bat with the axe

That way hammer fans are not upset

[hidden ridge]

Look, take it this way: Game had basically the same melee with 4 skins up until OG R6

Perhaps some people are going not to agree, but I think most enemies (and to be honest a good bunch of the game) have been built around that melee

[olive robin]

Yeah that makes sense

But the point that hammer kinda ruins 4 melees with their own thing isn't wrong

Cause it's good at like

[dry pumice]

At which point I have to ask why did they even bother with adding the other 3

[olive robin]

Everything

[dry pumice]

Waste of my hard drive space

[olive robin]

Because potentially it could have been really cool

And the melees do work