#ai-feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 12 of 1

warped lake
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Well, you gotta wait really, either for devs to increase ai numbers or add more ai species

glad tangle
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@warped lake one would think they would do that considering that number of cannibals this last patch has spawned, no global chat so everyone is distanced like players are ai, and there no ai so everyones hungry

thick wedge
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I agree with the everyone is hungry haha

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I'm currently on the edge of starving cuse my last body decided t fly away 🤡

ebon rune
thick wedge
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I know that but it was in a kinda populated area so would have been risky

maiden heath
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Holy mother of jesus I saw an ai dryo for the first time in my life since the stress tests and I feel complete

coarse shuttle
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crazy

tawdry fern
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are there AI meshes in evrima

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I have read a bunch and now am confused

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are the AI just so sparse you rarely see them?

sleek bone
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They hide well or accumulate at weird spots on the map

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Also they don't call often, but they're there

tawdry fern
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is it just dryos or are there trikes too?

sleek bone
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Only dryos rn

tawdry fern
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ok tysm

vast marten
ebon rune
fathom cedar
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@vast marten thats not feedback lol

vast marten
sleek bone
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If the AI spawn rate makes it impossible to grow, are all the utah and carno megapacks just my imagination?

vapid musk
warped lake
full pagoda
olive sluice
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Yeah, playing solo IS possible, by just sticking in hotspots and scavenging on random things (which is really boring)
but if you want to rely on AI haha good luCK

Im sick of this game ignoring the need for AI, its just ridiculous

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its driving itself into the wall, lets just see how well that 'diet system' will work when theres no god damn ai

silver raven
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Cry about it

worldly oak
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mh in a game like this AI is essential to fill the missing gaps in players

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populating low pop servers, and adding life to areas devoid of players even on high pop servers

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Plus if carnis have diets that require eating certain prey, they'd be screwed if only a few people are playing their preferred food

silver raven
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Yeah but it's hard to do

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Right now devs are struggling with one single AI, I think mechanics should take the priority over AI development

olive sluice
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Im p sure this is one of the only open world survival games that treats AI as a side, add on thing >:"DDD

silver raven
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Though once we have at least one that is really functional the following ones might come faster

worldly oak
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I dunno. I think that depends on what diets are like for carnis

silver raven
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That's an alpha, there's still more important things to do than AI
Especially considering how smart they want their AI to be

olive sluice
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it doesnt matter if its hard to do, if the devs want the game they're describing and showing in the concept art, trailers they NEED AI. its essential lol

worldly oak
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In a game like this AI is pretty important, I really wouldn't want to see it get sidelined

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A good way for them to address AI though is like they're treating playables too. Totally separate from the main updates, and simply getting released when they're done

silver raven
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Yes they need AI
But later

olive sluice
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They need it now- and they to stop thinking that somehow players will simulate an ecosystem its just >:"DDDD

worldly oak
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Mh. Personally I have no problem with waiting because I main herbis lmao, doesn't impact me as much. But I don't think the carni players will be particularly happy. In particular if, as said, preferred food is an important thing for carnis

silver raven
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I have no problem with waiting because I know AI is gonna take a very long time to make, and I don't want it to become a prority over more important mechanics

worldly oak
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Honestly, I'd kind of rather they put in somewhat more "simple" AI of the playables and slowly built upon making them more complex as time goes on

olive sluice
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Oh im fine waiting, AI is freaking hard
What im saying is that the devs continually treat AI as like... a side thing, for filling the gaps in players
like
HELLO??

silver raven
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for now

worldly oak
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No one wants legacy AI 2.0, but having AI that's a little simpler than what they're aiming for would help fill in the gaps while they work their way towards their end goal

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that way AI wouldn't necessarily impede on developing mechanics, they could still fill in the gaps left by missing AI, and they can still work on eventually putting out more complex AI

olive sluice
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yeah! I kinda think they should maybe... get another AI person on the team

worldly oak
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im always cautious about recommending devs bring on new team members because that can be risky for an indie team. if done right, and they have room in the budget, i dont think it would hurt

silver raven
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Yeah for now Amarok is the only one to do it

worldly oak
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part of the issue is amarok is their main AI guy, but he also has to work on mechanics

olive sluice
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yeah exactly

silver raven
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And I'm pretty sure he's also doing other things

olive sluice
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like thats a lot

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he is

worldly oak
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so he has less free time to actually develop AI

olive sluice
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exactly
and the AI that is in is like
insanely rare, it may as well not exist

silver raven
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Like always, it all boils don to one single conclusion : they would work faster with a bigger dev team.

worldly oak
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although given they brought him on specifically for AI iirc, might just be better to find someone who can replace what he's doing mechanic wise

silver raven
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But that's easier to say than to do

olive sluice
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I think they need to rethink how they're viewing AI rn hA

worldly oak
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yeah. i wouldnt want to see them run themselves into the ground over bad management and hiring choices

olive sluice
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yeah true

fathom cedar
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Dude imagine leaving the game because theres mo ai

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That literally means get fucking good at the game and L2p

sleek bone
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If somebody wanna play on a dead server where they cant hunt players maybe they should join the leaf sucker gang

opal flint
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Ah yes, git gud and L2p, the 2 most useful advices you can ever do

warped lake
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I love this kind of people

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Hop on a 20 player server and try to survive, I'm sure that will test how "good" you really are

olive sluice
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HAHAHAHAHA

entirely missing the point my dudes.
Git gud........ lmfao

warped lake
olive sluice
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😩

warped lake
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Jokes aside this game NEEDS ai

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Don't @ me

olive sluice
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Facts

warped lake
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Not just for food but for excitement as well

olive sluice
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Also very facts
THANKYOU

warped lake
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I want to see a Cerato AI chasing me down as a Utah

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I want to hear those 3 calls and thumps while they are running at me

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I want to feel helpless when they get too close

olive sluice
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Yessss

warped lake
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No matter what, this game needs AI to reach it's highest potential

alpine nimbus
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This sounds more like player interactions rather than AI

warped lake
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The devs goal in Evrima is to make the AI player like

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Aka AI that behaves like a player

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I know it's possible

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Because they learned Utah AI how to goddamn teabag lmao

olive sluice
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I don't agree with that one tho
Cause the point of ai is to simulate an ecosystem

Players cant do that, for behaviour reasons as well

Which is why you need ai acting like dinos would

warped lake
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You can make players behave like dinos

alpine nimbus
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Yeah it is but I think right now they should focus more on simple AI so that carnivores don’t die off so easily like in legacy’s Oreo and baby avaceratops

maiden heath
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Can't wait for a dryo ai to run up to me, bite, scream and crouch dance

alpine nimbus
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I would like to see more that in the future though

warped lake
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LMFAO

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I agree the spawns need to be changed

maiden heath
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But yes true.
I want ai to behave like animals too

olive sluice
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Players dont, have you seen what most stego players do? They're out for blood

warped lake
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Honestly I'm actually soo desperate that I'd even settle for Legacy AI system

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Just make AI hard to catch and done

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I'd be happy for the time being

alpine nimbus
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Yeah the current problem is just the map is so big but there isn’t any ai

olive sluice
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Valid of you
But making ai act like players defeats the purpose of having them

alpine nimbus
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One dryo ai per map

warped lake
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Lmao

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1 dryo ai per 1/4 of the map

alpine nimbus
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^

olive sluice
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Its true JDNDNSNSN

warped lake
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And once that dryo gets eaten, none spawn to take its place

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Live or die

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Make your choice

alpine nimbus
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Legacy Ai could be a good place holder until they release the envirma ai

olive sluice
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Yeah i agree tbh

warped lake
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Honestly

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I dont know how big the map is

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But, making AI 1 call every 2-5 minutes

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Would make a big difference

olive sluice
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it wont fix the 'make game fun' issue but it would at least give the game some consistency for the time being

warped lake
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Ikr

alpine nimbus
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Yeah

warped lake
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You would be able to grow things

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Right now I can grow a Deino sure

olive sluice
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And explore

warped lake
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But Raptors?

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Carnos?

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Good luck

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They gotta cannibalize

olive sluice
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Hot spots are the key... ptera is my fav rn

warped lake
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Ptera is fun af

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I love it too

olive sluice
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It is!

warped lake
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I wonder which dev is the ai dev

olive sluice
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Amarok

alpine nimbus
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Hopefully the diet system adds interesting food sources for carnivores, maybe it’s secretly a cover up for AI release maybe please

warped lake
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Well, dear Amarok, we as a community beg for more ai TI_Wheeze

olive sluice
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Hes the only one but he also works on other stuff too
So not just ai dedicated

YEAH HAHA

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Plz...

warped lake
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Jokes aside the devs are doing a great job

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And I'm hyped for Utah and Teronto AI

olive sluice
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Same here

alpine nimbus
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Yeah I know down the line things will get better

warped lake
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I think Ama is just too busy with other things other than AI

olive sluice
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I just hope it wont be as non existent as yhe dryo ai

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YeAH he is i think

warped lake
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So he cant really just hop onto whatever we want

olive sluice
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Yeah

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My only wish is that the devs realise how important ai is to this game and just
Stop treating it as a side thing
Or just something to fill player gaps... or for food

Im not concerned with having everything right now cause thats silly hshshdh

warped lake
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Yep, though everything great takes time

olive sluice
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Indeed

onyx bobcat
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@slim oasis the issue most people face is that it's near impossible to survive on servers with lower populations with less than 50 people on them. Yes, you can go on servers with higher player counts and it's much easier, but a game shouldnt require a minimum of 50 people to barely function (especially since a lot of players AFK to grow, which puts that number up even higher since there are less people actually playing that you can find and hunt).
the game is very focused on creating an ecosystem, but that will be difficult to do without enough AI

slim oasis
plush swallow
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Only raptors and carnos even need other players for food, there are 6 other dinos you can play but you want to be the cool dinos without doing the cool work.

onyx bobcat
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yeh i know that, i play on the official servers or whatever has the highest player count, like nublar. im just saying why most people complain about AI and tbf, it's a little weird that the game always has to rely entirely on players to build the ecosystem the game's centered on

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the AI thing is mostly just an issue for smaller servers, which arent even that small in comparison to other games (i.e, 50 people on one server should not feel empty)

slim oasis
dim minnow
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@slim oasis The thing is when you are not in areas with many players, in those places there is no type of AI, such as rivers. In addition, to get to areas of population you have to travel many times through sparsely populated areas, and there are certain dinos that are very slow (current case deino and probably more dinosaurs in the future) that suffer these trips. Not counting, as I left before, that the exploration factor is lost

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In addition, the population areas are frequented by adults, which makes it difficult for the juveniles to survive

plush swallow
onyx bobcat
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that's also a good point, it's a bit boring to only have 1 or 2 spots on the map where you can survive as a carni (especially due to the fact that the only water sources are the rivers)

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AI herds could also be more fun to interact with as a lone herbi

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a lot of people suggesting more AI get added in arent hoping for free meal tickets, they're hoping for the world to feel a bit more alive. plus the dev team is hopefully gonna work on the AI being less stupid and actually being a challenge to hunt

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like yeah, adding in more AI like the taco and oro AI back in legacy? nah, that's trash. but adding in AI that can juke and fight back (as they've shown they're working on in a couple of streams)? i dont see how that would automatically make the game easier for carnis

eternal marlin
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It really doesn't, the dryo ai ive encountered so far have been just as hard as it is to catch players, if not even harder since they're so precise

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I have yet to actually kill one, they always get to the forest and become untraceable

dim minnow
# plush swallow it's a game, it should be difficult.

The point is not if it is difficult or not, for that you move away from the areas, but if you literally cannot be even close to those areas but then you need food, and the only places that there is food are the population areas, it gets complicated a lot of. Currently it is not so much of a problem, since many of the dinosaurs grow fast, therefore there is less exposure time. But later it will be a problem to grow Apex and sub-Apex (carnivores). Also, they are working for the AI to defend itself, so it makes it more complicated, but if that AI you cant see it ...

eternal marlin
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Its perfect, because now the reason I'm starving is 100% due to incompetency and not because there is nothing within my range to hunt

dim minnow
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And that it is a game does not make it have to be complicated (it is not the case of The Isle, which does have to be complicated, but not unfair as it happens many times with the subject of food)

onyx bobcat
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again, adding more AI would not automatically make it easier for carnis to get food, but it would at least give them opportunities to hunt

plush swallow
slim oasis
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ya see ^this guy has brains

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he knows what he is talking about

onyx bobcat
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yeh current AI does suck, i agree with that

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it's stupid and crouches in the middle of fields n shit

slim oasis
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i will admit the ai does suck but its getting better

onyx bobcat
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im saying all of this with the hope that the dev team will deliver on more intelligent AI, like herding n stuff

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that's when i think the number of AI should increase, and it will help with people all just gathering on one tiny part of the map

eternal marlin
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Haven't found any dumb ai yet but yeah I believe you

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Ai is really hard to make

plush swallow
slim oasis
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people gathering and killing each other is a good thing (killing each other not mega packing)

onyx bobcat
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it's not, but it shouldnt have to be the entire server in one spot

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also atm (as far as i know), on the evrima map there's really only one gathering spot i've seen, and it's at central

eternal marlin
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Gathering is good, but only when there are multiple gathering places with different terrain, like legacy with its multiple landmarks

onyx bobcat
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there's a whole beautiful map out there and idk it just seems a bit of a shame that you're essentially required to stick in one part of it to survive

plush swallow
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be a herbivore then, you can go anywhere

slim oasis
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^^^^

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read my mind

eternal marlin
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Rn in evrima its only center, so there's no incentive to move across the map, so all the fights are the same boring thing and there's no incentive to explore

onyx bobcat
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idk im hoping they'll add more landmarks

eternal marlin
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Yeah legacy had multiple where as a carnivore id be able to hunt other players and find food

onyx bobcat
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i know docktahs were annoying, but it was kind of cool to have a sort of set "habitat" that certain dino species were naturally attracted to

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same with herbi hill and great falls, they only went there because there were many bushes

eternal marlin
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Like gigas/rexes around densely foliaged watering holes

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Yeah thats what made legacy feel alive to me

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You could go to different landmarks and terrains and each one would have its own hunting strategy based on the terrain and the dinosaurs attracted to that terrain

plush swallow
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gigas and rexes just sitting around a pond waiting for avas to walk into their mouth was my least favourite part of legacy

eternal marlin
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Uh no they were waiting for thirsty players to drink the water

onyx bobcat
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also it's true you can just be a herbi, but tbf rn.... the state of the game is literally just eat / drink / explore. of course most people prefer carnis since there's simply more to do

plush swallow
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sure sure

eternal marlin
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I've been ambushed at watering holes multiple times, some of them successfully killing me

onyx bobcat
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and yeah turbo that is a fair point, i didnt like the gangs of rexes just sitting around surviving off of bad AI

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again, im saying all of this on the assumption that AI will get better and wont just be free happy meals for carnis

eternal marlin
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Yeah and waiting til the population was low so there would be nothing to kill them

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Thats not an issue anymore with the dryo ai, especially since it doesn't just spawn in front of you and you have to travel around the map to find it

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If dryo ai hotspots are discovered, multiple players will eventually go there and will have to fight over it anyway

plush swallow
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I hate dryo bots with a passion, it's infuriating when you play dryo and run towards a call looking to group up and it's a bot walking in circles instead of a player

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as if it's not bad enough trying to find someone to group with as dryo

eternal marlin
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Yeah there needs to be a way to distinguish them at least, I agree

onyx bobcat
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that is understandable, i hope there'll be an easier way to distinguish bots in the future (maybe all the same skin once the skin system gets added in)

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i do think tho, that a well-coded dryo "colony" of AI could actually encourage more real players to choose dryo, since they'd at least be able to stick near the AI and use them as an alert system

eternal marlin
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Depends

onyx bobcat
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rn the herbi issue is more of a feedback loop: no herds to group with, so no one wants to play herbi (other than stegos but that's just because they demolish everything in-game rn)

plush swallow
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then again, some people might enjoy it

onyx bobcat
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AI herds would help since you could follow them around, and there's safety in numbers. also i just think it would be insanely cool to see wandering herds even on emptier servers

eternal marlin
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I'd only play herbivore if there was an herbivore dino I liked, like iguanodon or shant

plush swallow
eternal marlin
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Inexperienced stegos especially

onyx bobcat
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ah alright, last i heard they were just beating the crap out of deinos

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i guess it changed in the last patch?

plush swallow
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only the dumb deinos

onyx bobcat
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hm fair

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anyways tho, considering the isle is seemingly aimed to create an ecosystem out of its players, it just seems weird there arent more herbis since that’s the way it is irl (usually)

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since herbis are boring to play for players especially without herds, it seems like (((good))) AI could help to fill that gap

plush swallow
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in reality there's more herbies because the corpse of a carnivore gives less nutrition than it has consumed in its lifetime

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it's simple really

onyx bobcat
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there’s also more herbis since they grow fast and die fast, like rabbits and deer

plush swallow
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@sonic notch people are actually complaining that they keep starving to death because they can't kill bots for food

opal flint
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What haki is saying is that grayspell "feedback" isnt really feedback and therefore shouldnt be in feedback channel, because idk you, but calling out people and telling them to git gud is NOT feedback, its not even directed to the devs(the ones that are supposed to read feedback)

glad tangle
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am I the only one that feels like Dryo AI is non-existent in the current update

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at least pre Update 3 I was able to find them, hear them.. they aren't easy to hunt, but at least I could find some

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right now I just haven't found a single AI in like.. 7 deaths already?

soft scarab
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AI needs to be more vocal in my opinion.
I have seen plenty of AI you just need to be patient and look in the right places. I find it surprising that people can’t find any.
I do hope that in the near future it will be possible to have small herds of ai teno and dryo. Not sure we need ai utah as there seems to be enough carnivores around.

tawdry fern
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do you find them in any particular region because near rivers there aren't any i've seen

plush swallow
tawdry fern
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oh thank you!

glad tangle
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@sonic notch his comment makes perfect sense

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he feels like the AI is fine and you don’t

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thats related to the AI, so he put it in AI feedback

sonic notch
# glad tangle he feels like the AI is fine and you don’t

nothing in his reply suggest he has no problem with AI nothing he said had to do with AI at all from what i read just that the players need to find other players to kill. and for juvies, and on low pop servers or sometimes depending on the location on a huge map you won't have the time to reach those destinations before starving to death.

plush swallow
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He is pointing out that bots are not necessary to play the game, while there is a flood of people claiming it to be too hard without them. Which it's not.

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So unlike your comment, which is all about his comment and so should be in this channel, it's appropriate imo.

olive sluice
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Every single time this comes up, without fail, you guys seem to think we want AI just for free meals/food

It is actually just sad at this point

This game isnt hard without ai, its just boring and dull without it

Once again, look at literally any other open world survival game, it's full of ai. The Isle needs ai to work.

sleek bone
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also people dont seem to consider that the reason ai is hard to find atm is because it's all dryo ai, when utah and tenonto ai is added it won't be a problem if they have the same spawn rates

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dryo is supposed to hide, not stamp around calling and making noise

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they can wait, it's obviously not that much of an issue considering most servers are still 80%+ carnis anyway

plush swallow
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Who made you the king of what is fun and what isn't?

onyx bobcat
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i mean this is ai-feedback, its their feedback

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the devs wouldnt have feedback channels if they didnt want us to give suggestions on how to make the game more enjoyable, even if those suggestions differ widely across the playerbase

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personally, yes, the game isnt hard without AI -- it's pretty easy to grow a utah even if you dont come across a single dryo. but AI could serve to liven up the more dead areas of the map, which atm is most of it. im not against hub spots or anything, and they can be very fun, but i feel like there should be a better spread of players over the map. otherwise, why bother to have such a huge map?

glad tangle
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either they made it incredibly hard to find AI now or something bugged in this update..

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pre-update 3 I did hear and find Dryo AI to hunt before.. but now, yeah

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it's pretty much futile to even try

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I'm 26% food just from the travel alone and not even that is making it spawn

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so like.. idk

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either there's a secret I don't know of or it just straight up bugged.

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it is straight up annoying not finding any food as a carnivore when you're supposed to do so.. makes it so not worth to use any land dwellers if that's the case

plush swallow
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@olive sluice literally have a guy asking for free food right here

glad tangle
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it's super rare to come across other players.. the map is super big

glad tangle
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I'm just asking for AI spawn to be fair

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it can't be possible that I've played 5+ hours without even finding a single AI

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AI Dryo should make noise.. I've heard it 1 calling before, that's how you know there's AI nearby..

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there's definitely something wrong when in that span of time you didn't find any AI at all

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I'm actually going to probably end up dying because of starvation lol

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my food is below 10% and I still haven't found any

onyx bobcat
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go to central

plush swallow
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I just find it funny that it didn't take 10 minutes from he said bots weren't about making the game easier until you came here complaining about how you're starving because there isn't any.

It's like I'm wondering if you're even legit or trolling.

onyx bobcat
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im hoping trolling 😩

glad tangle
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oh no.. I'm not trolling

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I'm literally almost out of food and I didn't find a source of food yet

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I'm not complaining because I want to complain... sure, it is a survival game.. you're supposed to look for food

plush swallow
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it's a game, sometimes you lose. Better luck next time.

glad tangle
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but it isn't supposed to be: "Die out of starvation 24/7" game

onyx bobcat
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i dont want AI to be like it was in legacy where it was just a free meal ticket for rex juvies to grow up on without needing any skill whatsoever... i do think it would be nice for the environment, tho, and to form more herds that would help encourage actual players to choose herbi dinos. herd hunting is by far the coolest scenario in the game rn, but its very rare to come across even in the more populated areas

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at least in my experience

olive sluice
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Starvation is also an issue in terms of like
It's luck based

AI should be easy to find (meaning theres a fuck ton around) but hard to catch

Meaning starvation would be a result of being a bad hunter
Not
Because theres literally nothing around

glad tangle
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well

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excuse me, I might be a bad hunter.. but in my experience, there's no AI around

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I'm fine with it being hard to catch, I experienced it myself

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but right now, Update 3.. no

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haven't heard nor found any AI whatsoever..

plush swallow
olive sluice
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You're right, AI practically doesnt exist in The Isle rn

glad tangle
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Dryos

glad tangle
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I just literally suicided myself in game because I didn't find food

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and I'm not the only one that feels the same way..

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I don't want free food, but I also don't want non-existent AI

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which is currently what's happening

plush swallow
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being a hunter is as much about finding the prey as catching it.

olive sluice
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Finding the prey
Yeah
Theres no pattern to it

Finding prey includes "tenos are usually in swamps so ill go there to find some"

Finding prey is random

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Theres no logic to it or pattern
No rhythm

glad tangle
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I hunted Dryo AI before Update 3 was a thing

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I heard them, saw them.. chased them

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that is not happening right now..

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like, they feel like they're not in the game.

plush swallow
#

Also, try seeing it from the herbi's perspective. Currently, if you fight off or otherwise get away from a carnivore they go hungry. A clear win for the herbivore. If there were lots of bots they could eat instead, it's at best a draw.

onyx bobcat
#

idk maybe the solution wouldnt be to increase the land AI, but just make hot spots that carnis will learn about. that way you can find the AI, but other carnis will be around too, to discourage riskless AI hunting off in some backwoods where no one threatens you

#

and that is a fair perspective turbo

olive sluice
onyx bobcat
#

only issue is that it's natural for players to choose carnis over herbis rn; the only things to do in the game are eat, drink, and walk around. hunting is the most exciting thing to do in the game

olive sluice
#

WHICH IS WHY U GOTTA MAKE IT FUN
rn it isnt

onyx bobcat
#

idk i just think playing a herbi should be more interesting (which hopefully it will be come the diet update) so that the carni / herbi ratio is more balanced

plush swallow
#

Being hunted is exiting too, that's why carnivores should be incentivized to hunt players.

olive sluice
#

Yeah exactly
That happens with ai JDJDHSS

onyx bobcat
#

in my experience, having been on both sides of the battle, utah v tenonto hunts are done and over in like <2 min

olive sluice
#

Carnis cannibalize a lot cause theres nothing around

Also uh carni ai
Hello

glad tangle
#

There needs to be small rabbit/lizard AI

#

something hard for juvie carnis to catch

plush swallow
#

Carnis cannibalize because they're dicks, there is rarely a real need for it.

glad tangle
#

but a way to make growing one less of a dice roll

#

there is tbf

#

No prey around

glad tangle
#

and what dude has said

plush swallow
#

there was rampant team killing on legacy too, so no amount of ez food will change that

glad tangle
#

Im not trying to lose my 2 hour carno to starvation

#

there is no prey.

#

you can hunt other players, okay..

glad tangle
#

NEVER

#

but the only place where I have consistenly found players is in shallow waters on the south

#

You should always work for your kills

#

otherwise it's just RNG to even find people

glad tangle
olive sluice
#

Yeah cause hunting ai in legacy was boring

onyx bobcat
#

no one's arguing that we should add legacy AI back in 😩

#

or that the current dryo AI should remain dumb as hell

olive sluice
#

Exactly

onyx bobcat
#

in fact, most people who want more AI want it to be smarter and more complex

glad tangle
#

I just want small rabbit AI thats hard to catch but is a semi - reliable source of food for young carnivores

plush swallow
#

they will never be as smart or complex as players, so why try?

glad tangle
#

better then the game feeling dead

#

but I somewhat agree

olive sluice
#

Point is, you cant have an ecosystem without ai
Majority ai

And also
Players act like players
We need ai to act like animals
Not players

glad tangle
#

I hate AI

onyx bobcat
#

"smart or as complex as players" ... memories of gigas trying to facetank camas comes to mind...

glad tangle
#

evrima can easily have a ecosystem

plush swallow
#

we've been over this. you don't want an ecosystem, you want it to look like one on the surface

olive sluice
#

???

onyx bobcat
#

if they can be made even half as smart as the isle's smartest players, it'll be able to evade like 90% of the playerbase

#

you're overestimating people here

worldly oak
#

i mean the current dryo AI aren't particularly smart, and even they can be little bastards to catch

plush swallow
olive sluice
#

Holy shit you're impossible why am i arguing with u
In one ear, out the other

onyx bobcat
#

then fine, whatever they starve and at that point i'd agree they deserve to starve. if they fuck up a given opportunity, then yeah. if they dont even have an opportunity to fuck up, then no

plush swallow
onyx bobcat
#

is the isle perfectly fine on servers with 150 people on them? yeah, absolutely. those servers dont need extra AI. but it's a bit ridiculous for a game -- an indie game, mind you -- to require so many people in order to play as the game was intended

#

and turbo, the whole point of this discussion is that there's not enough AI to give people that opportunity

glad tangle
#

^

#

This

#

So much this

worldly oak
#

smart AI absolutely makes sense to have. if people are upset they cant kill it, they need to learn how

winged glacier
#

I've been about to starve twice today as a Carno and I didn't because a family of small Crocs show up and I manage to do some "Croc fishing"

olive sluice
#

Ai is needed regardless of how many on a server

onyx bobcat
#

i have not seen a single person so far say "AI should be easier to catch"

winged glacier
#

But otherwise the lack of AI it's annoying sometimes, you gotta camp Hotspots and spawns which honestly could ruin some people experience

glad tangle
#

I camped AI spawns

plush swallow
glad tangle
#

AI still didn't spawn

worldly oak
#

i think also the main issue is our current AI are dryo, which are very hard to spot

glad tangle
#

I'm going to try and camp hotspots now and see how I can handle myself

worldly oak
#

if we have AI stegos and tenos, finding them in the first place would be WAY less of an issue

winged glacier
#

There's certain areas on the map where I kinda suspect the AI nodes are placed

onyx bobcat
#

statistically speaking, considering the size of the map and the amount of dryos, there's a fat chance to just find a dryo by searching forests and plains

glad tangle
#

From what I've been told, the devs are aware of the bug with the AI and are working on it

#

So yeah, I'm going to wait for that fix.. and prolly spend My time playing just herbies, Deino or Ptera

#

Much more chances to survive than being a Carno or Utah and having no AI

plush swallow
onyx bobcat
#

there is no skill in knowing magically where AI spawns. there is skill in following calls, tracking etc, yes, but that's not really how people find AI in the game's current state. hotspots at least you can find by the sounds, but there is no rhyme or reason to where AI spawns beyond spawn nodes

#

yes, part of hunting is finding the prey. but shouldnt finding the prey require skill, and not just luck or non-ingame knowledge?

worldly oak
#

that's mostly a result of there being some unfortunate exploits carnis can use against stegos, like the tail tip bite

#

stego could do with a bit of tweaking in that regard

winged glacier
plush swallow
onyx bobcat
#

lol f

#

i do feel that

#

but hopefully when the skin system gets implemented, dryo bots will have some kind of default skin to avoid confusing them with players

worldly oak
#

and yeah. currently finding AI is more about knowing where their spawn locations are, which isnt really how it should be played imo, aside from knowing "dryo spawns in plains" "utah spawns in forests" etc

onyx bobcat
#

^

#

that's my point, "finding prey" is just luck or camping central

#

also i gotta zoom but thanks for the (mostly) civil discussion

glad tangle
#

I was in central many times and yes.. players, sure

#

AI, defo not

worldly oak
#

i still strongly hope we see AI spawning around their diets. so if there's a certain food a dryo eats, dryo AI spawn near it, and carnis that hunt dryo (like carno) spawn in that area too

#

helps maintain a logical balance, and encourage carnis to learn what their chosen herbis eat too

#

would be way more interesting and fun to hunt that way imo

plush swallow
#

I firmly disagree with adding simple AI as placeholder. It should be everything the devs have told us they want it to be before adding, and the dryo AI removed until it can meet such a standard.

worldly oak
#

May I ask why you disagree?

plush swallow
#

The longer it takes them to add more bots the better, of course.

worldly oak
#

Like it or not, AI is an incredibly critical part of this game

#

They help fill out low pop servers, encourage people to spread out and make up for lower populations of certain animals in the players

#

plus, diets are on the way, and it's quite possible carnis will be encourage to eat certain herbivores

#

So you're screwed if not many people are playing the herbis you're meant to eat

plush swallow
#

Bots are not a critical part of this game at the moment, and that's very nice.

worldly oak
#

They are though. The lack of AI has already lead to undesirable behaviours in players, chief among them being the clumping up around central

#

in an ideal world, all servers will be populated enough, with players spread out enough over the map and the roster, that AI would not be necessary. But it it straight up unrealistic and impossible to expect that of an indie game, even one of TI's size

#

And honestly, even if we had 200 player servers, I still don't think they'd fill out the entire map to a satisfactory standard

#

With the game being the way it is, I think AI are pretty important in encouraging people to spread out across the map. Currently people don't really do that because it's just much harder to hunt

#

Ideally amarok would have the time to focus on getting each AI complete and added, rather than going with what I've suggested. However due to the size of the team, he also has to work on mechanics and focusing solely on AI would likely result in important mechanics taking longer

glad tangle
#

the devs have stated exactly that.. The purpose of the diet system is for players to spread out across the map in search of the things they need to eat..

#

we don't have the diet system implemented yet, but.. no AI, diet system wouldn't make much sense

#

and I agree with serpentarius that AI is the cause of the clumping of people around central and it's equally important for the survavility of players..

worldly oak
#

mhm. honestly even if players were spread out fairly evenly, there just wouldnt be enough herbis to keep carnis fed considering server sizes and the map size

glad tangle
#

Yeah

#

Well, people might find each other along the way.. and can probably kill other players, even if they're not part of the diet

#

But yeah

#

I personally feel unhappy a little by doing this but I'm basically being forced to play as herbies, Deino or Ptera.. since they have the highest chances of survival in the game right now..

#

I just wish they fix the issue soon

cedar merlin
#

hopefully with the diet system comes some land based ai

#

only thing holding me back from fully enjoying the game is the lack of AI for utah and carno

eternal marlin
#

Scavenging as a juvi will hopefully be much more sustainable with the gore update

#

Where bits and pieces can go everywhere, with crumbs juvis can reliably scavenge

onyx bobcat
#

honestly i been thinkin about the AI discussion from earlier and in a way, i do kinda agree a bit more now with turbo. a hunt, and whether the carni chooses to engage, should be a life or death situation for both the carni and the herbi, not just the herbi.

i think it's actually great balance-wise for the majority of carnis to starve, especially mid and apex tiers. the bigger you get the less you should be able to rely on AI, and adult apexes shouldnt be able to at all (or at least on servers with 100+ people).

the lack of prey will hopefully encourage people to play more herbis (which are very rare rn besides tanky stegos). only issue is that herbi life is unbearably boring, so i do hope that the devs prioritize making herbivores (considering they're half the roster) more interesting to play.

right now, to be blunt, larger AI (dryo) sucks. if you can even find one, it's stupid as all hell and heavily breaks immersion. i still think smaller AI, like the schools of fish and maybe frogs or large insects, could be great especially for juvies and small carnis, but i can see how quickly large AI would be abused to make mega packs of mid/apex carnis. until AI is actually good and challenging to hunt, the current numbers on large servers are fine. on smaller servers, i do think they should be increased slightly, but again -- the majority of carnis realistically starve, and the isle already has a carni infestation problem

#

sorry for the wall of text 😩

cedar merlin
#

spend 2-6 hours growing a dino just to have it starve to death is a bit of a let down

onyx bobcat
#

that's understandable, but if you cant hunt well on a server with 100+ players... then maybe playing a mid/apex carni isnt the best option

cedar merlin
#

some food is no contest the predator dominates and the prey makes up for it with numbers

onyx bobcat
#

"some food" the issue is that all AI, at least from what we saw on legacy, was no contest

worldly oak
#

yeahhh the majority of people starving when theres permadeath and it takes hours to grow is just how you get people to leave the game lmao

onyx bobcat
#

there were a shit ton of rex packs that literally lived off of avas, which is why i think the best short-term fix (again, until AI is better) is to only have small AI for juvies and small carnis

cedar merlin
#

there was a small short learning curve but they could be challenging for a new born carniv

worldly oak
#

so long as you play "correctly" you should be able to sustain yourself for as long as you need. it just may require a bit of skill

eternal marlin
#

Last time I checked dryo ai barely did anything for my adult carno at all, it gave a small sliver but it was just enough to stay alive a few minutes longer until I died

cedar merlin
#

and force large perdators to eat other players?

onyx bobcat
#

i agree with that, and id love for complex challenging AI that requires skill. but is that going to come overnight, or even in the next year of development? most likely not

#

im suggesting a temporary fix by saying there should only be smaller AI

#

at least itll make more sense whenever it bumps into walls or stops suddenly

cedar merlin
#

i was always a fan of options. I like to choose if i want to risk a 6hr grow on a fun player chase or play it safe and go after AI.

eternal marlin
#

Also the best solution to the herbivore imbalance problem is making herbivore gameplay more fun, instead of detracting from the carnivore experience. Also removing ai will only make carnivores more inclined to eat each other instead of having the security to hunt herbivores

onyx bobcat
#

^^^^

cedar merlin
#

i agree yeah. hunting players is just for fun and challenge

eternal marlin
#

I've starved to death many times already, it was really depressing and annoying, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still going to play my favorite carni every time

onyx bobcat
#

the biggest issue is that herbis are boring as hell to play rn

eternal marlin
#

Yeah

olive sluice
#

so are carnis 😔

onyx bobcat
#

im not saying all AI should be removed, im just saying it should only sustain you so far

worldly oak
#

hopefully diet will help with that, seems to be a big part of the point for diets

onyx bobcat
#

it should be more of a grazing thing even

olive sluice
#

yikes

onyx bobcat
#

like AI bodies can only fill you up to 20% or even 40% or so. that way people dont find two tacos and are good for the next hour

cedar merlin
#

the best part about playing herbis is trying to stay alive and fighting off carnis

onyx bobcat
#

it would encourage active play

worldly oak
#

No, I think players should be able to sustain themselves on AI as much as they want. It's just a amtter of making sure AI is good enough to not be free food

onyx bobcat
#

"okay, just ate a frog or smth, now i gotta go find another [small AI]"

#

i agree serp

cedar merlin
#

diet should give herbis a bump in fun i think

onyx bobcat
#

im just saying that AI will not be at that spot, development-wise, for a long time

#

rn the only reason people are starving is not because they cant catch dryo AI, it's because they cant find them

cedar merlin
#

there was a golden age of AI a few months back. They were super fast and would juke. Their numbers were not bad also

worldly oak
#

I think the current dryo AI is close to being perfect. I've hunted some pretty wiley dryo AI. Just not quite there yet

#

They need to dodge more, and hide their scent more

cedar merlin
#

so they have done it before...

onyx bobcat
#

small, plentiful AI would prevent people just eating 1 medium AI, going and sitting in a bush for an hour, and then going and eating a second medium AI. limiting the size would limit the amount of skilless apexes running around

#

it would also help to keep players actively hunting

worldly oak
#

well ideally with the diet system, you'll need to stay active because there are certain things you need to eat, and those things will be animals you're well balanced against

#

obviously we dont know how diets will work for carnis, but thats what im expecting

#

you'd be encouraged to hunt animals that are achievable but challenging

eternal marlin
# cedar merlin i was always a fan of options. I like to choose if i want to risk a 6hr grow on ...

I agree with this to an extent. I love diversity in playstyle. In legacy I liked to play as a defensive scavenger, instead of an offensive hunter always on the move in search of large prey. It was still risky and rewarding as I had to choose whether to defend kills or leave, and I had to accept that id be low on food all the time. The thing about it though is the free happy meal AI made it boring and unengaging. It was helpful, yeah, but it just took the risk and urgency away from having to scavenge. Hard agree on choosing different playstyles, but there should be risk involved for everything, and AI shouldn't be expected enough to remove that risk

onyx bobcat
#

^

#

i agree, yeah

#

that's why i think AI should be somewhat plentiful, a bit hard to catch, but all mostly small. this allows people to get past the god-awful juvie stage for most carnis without creating enormous megapacks of carnis (which are already a huge issue without much AI), and encourages people to play smaller carnis

eternal marlin
#

Removing ai entirely and expecting players to kill everything in sight makes the gameplay experience very samey and it wouldn't have the dynamic where you could find multiple ways to approach the problem (in this case not starving)

#

Hopefully with the gore update scavenging will be more dynamic

cedar merlin
#

legacy had its moments like that yeah. I starved to death a few times, fought to the death over kills, engaged fights because it was either starve or take on this adult trike as a juvi..

worldly oak
#

mh but large AI still have their value, so long as they strong enough. If they're never able to make large AI skilled enough to stand up to players, I wouldn't even mind them buffing their stats to a point they're well balanced. The only issue with that is then you can tell whether you're fighting AI or a player due to how much damage they do lmao

#

Well-done large AI are great for keeping the pressure on

eternal marlin
#

I'm sort of mixed on large ai

worldly oak
#

your tenonto herd can't just sit in this field forever, because that rex AI is eyeing you up

onyx bobcat
#

i mean this as a genuine question and not rhetorically: how did you starve on legacy

eternal marlin
#

What i can foresee is a rex ai getting stuck in a rock and some lucky juvi getting a free corpse lol

onyx bobcat
#

^

#

😩

#

even players who can control their actions get stuck on stuff

worldly oak
#

pathfinding isn't super difficult, in particular now that we have precise movement

olive sluice
#

I understand AI is a long way off from being good or any of that stuff

but at the end of the day I must say this again, The Isle is an open world survival game. All games of this genre have something in common: A world mostly filled by AI.
If you're relying on players to act as an ecosystem, thats just a joke
They cant meet the needed amount of each species, diversity and they have no pattern or rhythm

Players also dont act like animals, thats what you need AI for. You rarely see groups of Stego grazing in a field, they're usually just trying to kill Dienos now

worldly oak
#

Yeah. Players are just never going to be able to fill out the ecosystem enough, both as large and small animals

onyx bobcat
#

and not like stuck in a "oh im dumb and fell into a hole" it's just getting stuck between two trees when there's an enormous visual* gap

worldly oak
#

For the size of the map, I really don't see how they could have enough players to actually make it all entirely fleshed out

onyx bobcat
#

idk

worldly oak
#

I get wanting the perfect challenge, but at the end of the day this is a large-scale open world survival game, and AI are pretty important for covering the gaps

eternal marlin
#

I feel like lack of rexes stalking tenos will not be a problem at all once rex is introduced as a playable

worldly oak
#

In any open world survival game, but in particular in this one when what you can eat and what can eat you is important

onyx bobcat
#

AI existing for the sole purpose of being prey bothers me a bit, but i do like the idea of AI herds being something herbi players can join, or large AI patrolling areas like the coast (once deinos can spawn in the sea)

olive sluice
#

they should not exist just for prey

worldly oak
#

I wouldn't want AI solely as prey either, hence why I think carni AI is important

olive sluice
#

they are the world

worldly oak
#

they should be prey just as much as they should be predators/a threat

cedar merlin
#

@onyx bobcat if you are traveling you can find spots where ai dont spawn and no players around... you starve

onyx bobcat
#

i kinda agree with AI, again im thinking about its current state, being slightly buffed with extra stats or smth

#

speedy dinos like dryo would be faster than normal, scary dinos like rex could do more dmg, idk

#

i dont think we really need midtier carni AI tho, since its already a niche heavily filled by players

worldly oak
#

I think it should exist, but how frequently they spawn should be determined by how many people are playing them on a server

olive sluice
#

it should exist

onyx bobcat
#

yeah i agree

worldly oak
#

which is really what AI should do as a whole imo

olive sluice
#

no matter how many players you have on a server, you always need ai

onyx bobcat
#

rn tho carnis are the overwhelming majority and we dont really need a shit ton more in AI form

worldly oak
#

if not many people in the server are playing as a dibble, more dibble AI spawns. if lots of people are playing rex, hardly any rex AI spawns

#

you can achieve a pretty good balance in your ecosystem using this

onyx bobcat
#

yeh i think that'd work

worldly oak
#

because it also means if there's less herbi players, you get more herbi AI etc. AI is great for balancing the gaps in the playerbase

eternal marlin
#

That might be useful considering diets

worldly oak
#

I think its very important for diets

eternal marlin
#

Like what if no one is playing your preferred dino

worldly oak
#

exactly

#

because even if every dino is equally fun, and equally balanced. stuff like that happens

onyx bobcat
#

in the end tho, this all depends on how well the dev team can pull off challenging, non-happy meal AI

worldly oak
#

the final roster is large, and there will always be something that's a little lacking, even if just by chance

cedar merlin
#

thats a good idea flexing ai to balance an eco system

eternal marlin
#

What I'm hoping with the new plant diets is herbivores are actually incentivized to inhabit their intended habitats on the map (which the devs will need to put rivers or other water sources by to actually make them livable) and that can attract the intended predator

#

And make people spread out

worldly oak
#

ye. hopefully AI works that way too

onyx bobcat
#

yeh i agree, like a diet-incentivized herbi hill lol

eternal marlin
#

What i liked about legacy is there were a handful of diverse landmarks that attracted different dinos, and you could always encounter someone as you moved across the map

onyx bobcat
#

i hope there'll be a bit of variation in what herbis eat, but also a bit of overlap. mixed herds are still nice to see

eternal marlin
#

And each fight against them would utilize the terrain there making combat diverse

cedar merlin
#

also must consider the programming side of the issue we can think up wonderful ideas, but are there limits in programming that make our ideas not possible or too complicated

eternal marlin
#

Fighting dibbles at that lake near port on the mountain was much more different than fighting allos at twins, etc

onyx bobcat
#

i.e, maybe give each apex herbi its own diet separate from other apex herbis, but not so much from things like dryos / hypsis

warped lake
worldly oak
#

mh, having it work by region as well would be nice

#

if the south west of the map is devoid of any dryo players, dryo AI spawns more often

#

helps encourage people to spread out properly

warped lake
#

Maybe there could be biomes and it would scan inside those instead large portions of the map?

cedar merlin
#

a dumber ai spawn system would be easier on the system, while a reactive system would require a lot

onyx bobcat
#

tru but the less players are on the map, the more "room" performance-wise there will be for more AI to spawn

#

also a reactive system wouldnt be that draining

warped lake
#

I think the reason the AI is soo scarce is that there isnt enough species for AI to spawn in

cedar merlin
#

are there any other games out there that you can think of that do that realslim?

onyx bobcat
#

legacy had a reactive AI spawning system

#

lmao

cedar merlin
#

tru

onyx bobcat
#

AI only spawned near carnis

#

it didnt take into account how many players were playing what species, sure, but that's a fairly low-performance task

cedar merlin
#

and it only spawnd when you were hungry

onyx bobcat
#

yeh even more reactive

warped lake
#

Legacy AI could be much better than what we got

cedar merlin
#

feelings they can tweak the number of ai they did it in the past

onyx bobcat
#

i think the issues performance-wise would only stem from the actual intelligence of the AI, not its spawning patterns

warped lake
#

So did they increase or decrease it after last tweaks?

cedar merlin
#

decreased

eternal marlin
#

Ai should have its own spawn points strategically placed to attract people there, not just spawn around you

cedar merlin
#

ai pop was low, then it went high for a patch or two, then low again

#

current system has strategic locations

onyx bobcat
cedar merlin
#

ai spots

Actual_AI_Spawn_History.jpg
eternal marlin
#

^ especially with the new scent system where people will instantly know of you have a corpse

onyx bobcat
#

i think that could work, given that the placement of hotspots actually makes sense and isnt some piece of knowledge you'd have to obtain outside of the game

cedar merlin
#

this was the old ai spots

onyx bobcat
#

cough cough, like that map

#

👀

cedar merlin
#

hard to see but red dots mark locations around rivers and roads

onyx bobcat
#

yeah but do those red dots make sense? would i know about them through gameplay and by following scent markers, calls, etc.? no. getting a map from someone in a discord shouldnt be how AI is found lmao

eternal marlin
#

Imo the spawns should be

  • at landmarks people can choose to go to (like the big Rock cave things or the dam), not just a random spot in the woods

-in conjunction with herbivore habitats where their preferred food and water is so herbis and carnivores will overlap, especially when the ai runs low

onyx bobcat
#

like there's a big area of rocky plains west of the eastern river that could serve as a great spot for AI spawns -- rocks for utahs to escape to, plains for carnos

cedar merlin
#

i mapped the locations for myself. found them by listening, sniffing, and sighting

onyx bobcat
#

they still dont make much "sense" imo, they're just random spots in the woods

eternal marlin
#

Should be at landmarks

cedar merlin
#

they hung out where water and roads crossed as well as some random open fields

eternal marlin
#

And by extension so should herbivore food

#

Creates a "cool no food here lets go to x location" and at least have a reliable system for encountering players, instead of walking through the woods for an hour and seeing absolutely noone

#

By default thats how people are going to problem solve looking for food, as we see with everyone grouping at center now

cedar merlin
#

when you spend hours growing your dino dont know about you but im not leaving food to starve. There should be reliable packs to stalk.

eternal marlin
#

Yeah at the landmarks

cedar merlin
#

i think players should be an optional food source maybe one that lasts longer like in legacy, but players are not a reliable food source for carni

eternal marlin
#

How so

onyx bobcat
#

carnis shouldnt have "reliable" food sources... that's why they're carnis

cedar merlin
#

they are not there, or are bigger/more skilled

onyx bobcat
#

lmao

#

if you want a reliable, riskless food source, then play herbi

#

or even ptera

#

or hell, even deino if you're careful to avoid adults

eternal marlin
#

Players should be the main food source though

onyx bobcat
#

^

cedar merlin
#

not saying they should be free meals it should be a chase or a fight

eternal marlin
#

Like thats one of the core loops of the game

cedar merlin
#

players are not reliable and that makes it a pvp only game

eternal marlin
#

Designing the map using ai and herbi food in a way that makes it so they have to interact with each other solves herbis running around and being bored because theres no one hunting them, and carnivores walking in a straight line and dying

plush swallow
onyx bobcat
#

i think the best solution to the AI problem is to make it so that there are known spots where they spawn there and not really anywhere else. that way hunting AI is still a risk, and it would encourage more player interaction (since other carnis will go there too) instead of just hiding out in the backwoods of a forest hoping an AI spawns

eternal marlin
#

^

onyx bobcat
#

plus utahs and carnos that go to those spots would automatically shred any juvie rexes or gigas lmao, keeping that (god-awful) population down

cedar merlin
#

we were talking about players as a main source of food for carni...

onyx bobcat
#

? what did i say that was unrelated

cedar merlin
#

turbo

onyx bobcat
#

most carnis have two potential food sources: players or AI. players means pvp...

#

if you talk about AI, one of the biggest issues is that it affects pvp

cedar merlin
#

so what happens when you log into a server with noone else on or a low pop?

eternal marlin
#

Herbis rely on pvp for the game to be fun though, at least in my opinion

onyx bobcat
#

^ its also just more fun for carnis

#

more risky yeah but more fun

#

also CTF, why are you trying to play a multiplayer game with no one else on lmao

cedar merlin
#

people do get bored eating ai thats when pvp comes in

onyx bobcat
#

like a low pop fine, okay, have a bit more AI spawn but dont try to turn the game into a singleplayer world

plush swallow
#

yes, we are talking about a 4th of the current roster, that have to eat players. the majority of dinos have free food, why can't two of them just have their own niche of playstyle?

cedar merlin
#

herbi life is about growing up then raising/protecting younglings

onyx bobcat
#

carnis shouldnt get bored by surviving 😩

eternal marlin
#

Imo i can see large ai like rex ai being useful for low population servers, so people can't just wait for it to be 1 am, log on, and eat all the ai with no risk

#

Which was what would happen in legacy

#

Especially with the fact it spawned on you and not at a location

onyx bobcat
#

and yeah tbf rn the only two dinos that can actually starve to death are utahs and carnos, and sometimes adult deinos (usually in the west river)

#

AI should only spawn in high-risk areas. or, if there is no risk from players, rex AI should spawn instead

cedar merlin
#

lol

eternal marlin
#

Deinos starving is incredibly rare, they have fish

cedar merlin
#

i think that is what the utah and rex ai is for they will be aggressive hunters

eternal marlin
#

You have to be in a bad spot to starve, like the swamp where no players are and no fish are

cedar merlin
#

the water ai seems good atm

#

at least in the rivers

eternal marlin
#

Depends, they spawn pretty frequently in center from what I've seen

onyx bobcat
#

ah alright nvm then

eternal marlin
#

But in the swamp its completely dead

plush swallow
onyx bobcat
#

even more so then, only 2 dinos can starve

cedar merlin
#

people will do that without bots

onyx bobcat
#

and yeah as a herbi, if i grow for 5 hours i dont want some 20-count utah pack (only alive because they ate AI) to come destroy me just because they're bored

cedar merlin
#

rules and admin stop pointless killing

onyx bobcat
#

i dont wanna play on some prissy 20 rule server

cedar merlin
#

hmm seems like there might be a bias there

eternal marlin
#

The only real rules that are necessary are no mixpacking/no overpacking, thats it

onyx bobcat
#

?

cedar merlin
#

without the rules things got crazy

onyx bobcat
#

i said AI makes carni life too easy. rules also makes the game way too easy

cedar merlin
#

annoying as the rules were

onyx bobcat
#

"you cant attack me without three calling and writing me a letter"

cedar merlin
#

lol

warped lake
#

Lmao

#

Just 3 calling is enough really

onyx bobcat
#

in all seriousness tho, you shouldnt need admins to play a game properly

#

3 calling for ambushes doesnt really work man...

plush swallow
warped lake
#

Your dino literally releases a scream of malicious intent

eternal marlin
cedar merlin
#

a 20 utah pack will have no choice but to kill every player they encounter without ai

warped lake
#

Also, I play on servers that only request of you to 3 call carnis

onyx bobcat
#

i understand that slaughtering those in your group is a bit of a dick move, sure, but the game is built on "oh god do i trust this person"

warped lake
#

So you could still ambush

onyx bobcat
#

so carnis can ambush but herbis cant?

eternal marlin
plush swallow
#

I got banned from one server for not stopping my attack on a dryo colony as rex when the first baby dryo that wouldn't even have a measurable effect on my hunger meter died, lol

onyx bobcat
#

i mean, dont elephants irl stomp the shit out of lion cubs? idk

cedar merlin
#

lol

onyx bobcat
#

plenty of herbis irl will go on the attack if they can

eternal marlin
#

Yeah and cows eat baby birds

onyx bobcat
#

i mean adult birds dont prey on cows tbf

#

not that i know of

warped lake
#

I think we're both thinking of different things Slim, also that ban was stupid Turbo

onyx bobcat
#

wdym different things

#

i dont think herbis should need to 3 call carnis before attacking, carnis are an implicit threat

eternal marlin
#

not really a "this will grow up to kill me issue", just a "hmm I could go for some protein right about now"

warped lake
onyx bobcat
#

me and the boys getting protein

warped lake
#

And most of the time they dont lmao

eternal marlin
#

Rules like that are dumb and only make the immersion worse

warped lake
#

If I was a herbi and saw a Carni you can bet your left butt cheek I'd be ready to swing

eternal marlin
#

Like running/attacking at the first sight of a carnivore is much more natural and visceral than pressing a button and typing body down or whatever

onyx bobcat
#

the point of what i was saying before is that i dont really want to play on a server with a shit ton of AI-fed carnis that are only prevented from killing me as a herbi because of a "no pointless killing" rule

#

i agree with yeah that the only decent server rule is a no megapacking / mixpacking one

eternal marlin
#

^ yeah ai should only be to incentivize people to go places, not really sustain you

onyx bobcat
#

^^^

#

and if you do decide to hunt AI, it should still be risk and should still be near other players

warped lake
#

Yep, I agree with both of those

eternal marlin
#

Only population i can see it being necessary for is juvis that can't hunt

onyx bobcat
#

it shouldnt follow you around every time you're hungry

#

coughlegacy

warped lake
#

Yeah

#

Lmao

cedar merlin
#

with ai carnis will not be bound to mess with you and you can get protection from an ai herd

plush swallow
#

A rule against megapacking shouldn't really be necessary either, that's just an issue of too much food

eternal marlin
#

Not really, megapacks also form in scarcity

warped lake
#

Honestly biomes and appropriate set ai spawns inside those would be cool to see

eternal marlin
#

Also its just a plain advantage, people will do it regardless of the food on the server so it needs to have the punishment from admins

onyx bobcat
#

idk, i think the megapack problem could be helped by increasing the radius of their scent. rn i have to be like 20 feet away from them to smell the stinky bastards

eternal marlin
#

Yeah that would be nice

onyx bobcat
#

maybe my sniffing is just broke idk

plush swallow
#

not if it was actually hard to have a massive amount of carnivores in one location and keep them all fed

onyx bobcat
#

you should be able to smell a megapack from, say, the east river all the way to the closest point on the west. idk how that would be performance-wise tho...

eternal marlin
#

Isn't that a bit far

warped lake
#

Particles might affect lower end pcs

onyx bobcat
#

yeah 😩 that's what im worried about

#

sniffing is already pretty shit performance-wise

warped lake
#

I even started to feel frame drops on my 3070

cedar merlin
#

the game as it currently is is pretty much no ai is the current state of the game satisfactory to you in that respect right now?

onyx bobcat
#

yeah

eternal marlin
#

Its not really the amount, but the placement

warped lake
#

Well, as much as I am desperate for more AI

#

You can still manage

#

I have a full grown raptor with my gf

onyx bobcat
#

ive grown two utahs to full back when the grow time was 1h45, didnt see a single AI either life times, and didnt even die via starvation. both utahs got wiped since it was QA lol

plush swallow
#

agree on the pack scent radius increase. Also it would be nice to have different pack scent for herbi or carni, to better decide if I should be running towards or away from the smell.

eternal marlin
#

The first official release of update 3 at least, I was able to encounter them pretty reliably, but it was always in the middle of absolutely nowhere with no players anywhere so I could just be as careless as I wanted

warped lake
#

I agree with Turbo

onyx bobcat
#

yeh

warped lake
#

I think Carnis would reek of death

onyx bobcat
#

different pack scents would be nice

warped lake
#

Aka have a reddish color

eternal marlin
#

Big theropods would stink bad

#

Rexes have so many fat rolls to get dirt and gore lodged under

warped lake
plush swallow
cedar merlin
#

you can manage but its not very fun. the way you play is not very predatory you do things just to survive you dont get to engage in activities outside of looking for the next meal

onyx bobcat
#

but yeah, CTF, the point of choosing carni over herbi is to choose to live a harder life

#

even then, deino and pteras are practically immune to starvation

warped lake
#

Yep

#

If you're looking for a more fun gameplay

onyx bobcat
warped lake
#

Ptera is the way to go

cedar merlin
#

ai frees you up to patrol territory stalk and hunt explore you do none of that right now or you risk starving

onyx bobcat
#

stalking = hunting ??

warped lake
eternal marlin
#

Scavenging is also a valid playstyle, its less secure though

onyx bobcat
#

patrolling territory is just another way of looking for food, unless they add scent marking for intra-species communication

eternal marlin
#

I mean with territory patrol why would you be defending dryo ai that barely sustain an adult

cedar merlin
#

need more ai

plush swallow
#

If you want to explore choose dryo or ptera. free food and speed is what you want for exploration.

onyx bobcat
#

there is literally nothing in the game rn for carnis other than hunting... and you wanna make it less exciting?

cedar merlin
#

i would mark off an area and claim it anyone comes in its a fight. Anyone kills in my territory i take it

onyx bobcat
#

well good luck with that without scent markers lmao

cedar merlin
#

cant do that right now

eternal marlin
plush swallow
#

sure you can

eternal marlin
#

Its not the frequency ai needs its the location, it should be a stepping stone to player interaction

cedar merlin
#

as a carni all you do is look for food. Man looking for food is more important than breathing man

onyx bobcat
#

i mean itd be pointless but yeah turbo's right, you "could"

#

AI should only encourage player interaction, never discourage it

cedar merlin
#

so if you want to explore you can only choose certain dinos?

plush swallow
#

you can choose any area on the map, pretend to piss all over it, and fight for control over it. There's literally nothing stopping you

cedar merlin
#

i like being a utah so icant explore the map with that dino or starve?

onyx bobcat
#

and ctf, okay fine carnis catch a bit of break and dont need much food anymore. what do you even do then? walk around? that's it? something you could do far more easily as a faster dino like a ptera or dryo?

cedar merlin
#

you will starve if you do that

onyx bobcat
#

but you can do it

plush swallow
onyx bobcat
#

its like if people asked for trikes to have infinite stam back in legacy so they could run around exploring the map

#

like bruh

#

think about the balance

cedar merlin
#

legacy food was not a large concern and it freed you up to immerse and do other things with any dino you choose

plush swallow
#

I wanna be a carno and explore the bottom of the swamp, so unfair the deinos get the easy life.

onyx bobcat
#

immerse and do other things? like what, sit around port barking all day? pumping out children that will also, sit and do nothing?

#

???

#

the game has almost no content outside of the map and pvp

cedar merlin
#

thats being extreme im not talking about flying rexes here

onyx bobcat
#

that doesnt sound too bad, finally the pteras will have a predator

cedar merlin
#

im asking for a living eco system regardless of player pop

eternal marlin
#

Meanwhile a ptera is made for that and doesn't have to accept any risk

onyx bobcat
#

okay fine AI meant to create herds and whatever, but it should never just be an easy way of getting food for carnis

plush swallow
#

there was literally a dude earlier today complaining that it was hard to explore the map as deino

onyx bobcat
#

it should be as dangerous, if not more dangerous than pvp

#

oh my god

eternal marlin
#

Lmao rip deino

cedar merlin
#

im all about smarter ai and more challenging, but not every prey item should be a platinum level boss

onyx bobcat
#

the balance wouldnt even need to come from the ai

eternal marlin
#

I can only see that being valid if they were talking about that gigantic stretch of ez drink shallow water but otherwise the rivers themselves are what you get to explore

onyx bobcat
#

literally just make hotspots where all carnis go, and the carnis will eat each other

cedar merlin
#

and if all 100 players on a server want to play deino we should be able to see every other specie represented on a server

onyx bobcat
#

no platinum level gun-wielding dryo, just food at the risk of player interaction

cedar merlin
#

that is always going to be there

onyx bobcat
#

?

cedar merlin
#

even in legacy there were fights over ai

eternal marlin
#

I mean if you wanted ai to yourself you'd just run to a random corner of the map and wait

onyx bobcat
#

there really weren't.... ai spawned wherever there was a hungry carni. some phat ass rexes moved in next door? move.

cedar merlin
#

yeah it was a dead give away

eternal marlin
#

The map based ai spawns make it so you have to compete over it

onyx bobcat
#

^ which is a good thing

cedar merlin
#

right yeah that is what we have seen in evrima

onyx bobcat
#

AI shouldnt be off alone in the forest just to serve as a snack

eternal marlin
#

Even once they do spawn, they're hard to catch anyway and it'll probably just be easier to fight amongst all the carnis that came looking for it

cedar merlin
#

dont think you should force players to stay in one area though

onyx bobcat
#

there would be multiple hotspots tho

plush swallow
#

I just had an idea for the "AI is for immersion and totally not to make the game easier for the carnis" crowd. Client side purely aesthetic bots that populate the map.
Pros: no extra load for struggling servers, makes the game feel less empty, ecosystem, can be toggled by each player, doesn't affect game balance
Cons: ?

onyx bobcat
#

i.e, the rocky plains beside the east river. big rock formations, etc.

#

the forest near the fallen log in the northeast

cedar merlin
#

bots only for looking not touching lol?

onyx bobcat
#

spread out across the map, but not so many "random" AI spawns that it's 1. up to luck and 2. most likely away from other carnis

eternal marlin
#

You'd have to make a weird module thing that moves the server based interactions of biting and keeping track of health to the client though and have both running at the same time, which would be weird as hell programming

onyx bobcat
#

you want AI? go looking for it at a certain landmark. you dont want AI? avoid those landmarks

cedar merlin
#

that is essentially what is going to happen reals

onyx bobcat
#

? its not what's in the game rn

plush swallow
cedar merlin
#

except they wont be predictable

onyx bobcat
#

that's the issue

#

they should be

cedar merlin
#

thats gross realslim

onyx bobcat
#

??

#

why?

cedar merlin
#

predictable spawn points?

#

too easy

onyx bobcat
#

it'll encourage players to spread out and go to various predictable spawn points. other carnis will go there, and predate on each other

cedar merlin
#

no searching required

eternal marlin
#

Still would require weird rewiring to put in the client, also idk hallucinating dinosaurs would be weird

cedar merlin
#

just remove sniff

onyx bobcat
#

oh my god.......... too easy......

#

literally every carni on the map will be attracted to these spots

#

rn, as long as you can find the AI, you've got a meal with 0 competition

cedar merlin
#

even with the system they have shown carnis will frequent the "spots"

onyx bobcat
#

??

eternal marlin
#

^you can get lucky and find a landmark no one is at for whatever coincidence and enjoy it

onyx bobcat
#

it encourages player interaction with carnis

cedar merlin
#

no way reals

onyx bobcat
#

y e s

#

it literally makes sense logically

#

carnis prey on each other. you put a shit ton of them in a field together, they'll balance things out

#

no carnis are around that landmark? okay, spawn in rex AI

cedar merlin
#

they spawn in certain areas but not always in the same spot so it causes you to roam and other carnis go to the same areas

plush swallow
cedar merlin
#

some meals come easy in nature man

onyx bobcat
#

that's fair, but hotspots would have high competition / risk (either from real players or from dangerous rex AI), so it wouldnt be a boring activity

cedar merlin
#

not every meal should be a platinum boss fight

eternal marlin
#

Bots don't sustain you unless you're a juvi though

onyx bobcat
#

if they leave, it's because they couldnt get the dryo AI or were threatened by other carnis

cedar merlin
#

right now?

onyx bobcat
#

and CTF, having to be sneaky around carni packs in a hotspot area while desperately trying to hunt AI yourself sounds like gameplay, not a "platinum boss fight"

cedar merlin
#

when dryo first came out it was not a guaranteed meal

#

esp when you were young

plush swallow
onyx bobcat
#

you shouldnt be able to barge in and fill your hunger bar to 100%

#

as a herbi? fine, you're fat and plants are everywhere. as a carni? no. you chose to play a carni (and literally chose one of the two carnis that cant rely on AI) and then want to play like a herbivore?

cedar merlin
#

you still have to catch it

onyx bobcat
#

lmao

#

in the AI's current state, you literally just have to run forward and bite

cedar merlin
#

im not asking for easy ai just the option for ai to be a viable food source

#

they used to juke and run up to the mountains to never be seen again

eternal marlin
onyx bobcat
#

you can't sniff?

cedar merlin
#

they were fast man

#

and would juke

eternal marlin
#

When I was playing in the first official update 3 the dryos were still decently hard, when they got to the forest it was good luck finding them

cedar merlin
#

yeah

onyx bobcat
#

again, in AI's current state, just adding more of them in would be terrible for balance. the hotspot solution would still add in AI as a food source (even a viable one!) but there would be other carnis to compete with, or rex AI to dodge

#

just spawning them into random spots throughout the map means that there is often little to no player interaction going on

#

no competition, no risk

cedar merlin
#

i fear the coming utah ai packs..

eternal marlin
#

^ in that scenario you can try to live off the ai, but good luck because every other carnivore wants to as well, making that playstyle still have risk

onyx bobcat
#

^

#

growing to 100% as a carni should be much harder than growing to 100% as a herbi

cedar merlin
#

there are going to be plenty of dead stuff with carni ai. one way or another something is dying

onyx bobcat
#

this literally makes sense realism-wise but also balance-wise. a carni needs to kill another player every, what, 30 min? every hour? herbis can only grow so fast. there need to be more herbi players than carni, and making carni more difficult to survive as encourages people to go play herbi

eternal marlin
#

One of the precursors for dead stuff everywhere is having players interact, and in order to have that interaction you need ai strategically placed

plush swallow
# cedar merlin i fear the coming utah ai packs..

me too, I'm already banging my head against the wall trying to get a group as dryo and finding bots instead, can't wait to run down utahs only to find out it wasn't a player I could group with too.

onyx bobcat
#

just dumping herbi AI in there to fix the carni / herbi imbalance is just lazy patchwork

cedar merlin
#

you cant force a player base to play herbi

mossy yew
cedar merlin
#

if all i can play is herbi the game is boring

onyx bobcat
#

okay

cedar merlin
#

right now if you play carni all you do is look for food

onyx bobcat
#

explain to me how it works

mossy yew
#

AI is supposed to be there to fill out for a lack of players, both in general and for specific areas, that's the point of it. You can't rely on players to make an ecosystem, they won't, no matter what you do. As such, the best option is to make good AI that can provide a decent challenge, so if there are no players around, you can still engage with AI, both hunting and being hunted by them and all that.

onyx bobcat
#

yes im not advocating for the removal of AI. im saying it shouldnt be random spawns out in the forest where other carnis are not a threat whatsoever

mossy yew
#

@onyx bobcatEasy. It was harsh like that back in progression. You still had a majority of people playing carnis, despite 90% of them being cannibalized as austro all the time in the same areas. People still kept trying, and you'd have one group of 15-20 or so local herbi herd hiding away (because the carnis rarely bothered to look for us anyway).

#

Despite the harshness of trying to prog into a rex or something, people still favoured carni over the so much easier herbi life.

#

People will throw themselves at the wall rather than go herbi if they do not want to be herbi, and no amount of difficulty (that would be reasonable at least) is going to change that.

#

I get what some of you want to do, but unless you've been there through progression, when AI wasn't even a thing, and still seen the austro hordes vs the at the time easy to keep alive herbis, you just don't know how players will behave and all that. I might have been a carni back then too, despite the harshness if it wasn't for stego being in and me really taking a liking to it from sandbox times.

onyx bobcat
#

fine, people wont want to go herbi. again, im not saying AI should be obliterated. im saying it should be a high-risk scenario where some random ass dryo AI doesnt just spawn in the middle of a forest because there's a hungry carni nearby

mossy yew
#

Yeah, that's fine. I'm not questioning your idea there, I'm just trying to get through that all these ideas of "make people go herbi" isn't going to work from all the experience I have at least.

onyx bobcat
#

having them spawn in herds near large landmarks will encourage competition between carnis and avoid it just being a free meal once people figure out how to cheese the AI

#

yeah that's fair, people wont want to go herbi till it has more content

mossy yew
#

And obviously I hope that AI will be good enough so it's not able to just be cheesed or abused.

plush swallow
# onyx bobcat explain to me how it works

Right now corpses give way too much food, so much so that the realistic necessity for herbivores isn't really a thing in the game. The food you gain from a corpse should be severly reduced, at least to less than it had to consume to grow.

cedar merlin
#

we can agree ai has to be good and done well but using it as a tool to control carnis so herbis have a better life probably wont play out that way

eternal marlin
#

Herbi bushes should be placed in the exact same way, in the open near hotspots

mossy yew
#

And I personally want AI to fill in for lack of people, so the entire map can be used and explored. Not this stupid hotspot shit we tend to have. I dislike the idea of finding a really cool place, but can't live there cause everyone just clusters at herbi rock or wherever. So, if no one else will go there, I'd be fine with good AI that'll provide a decent enough challenge and experience.

onyx bobcat
#

i think it's vital to use it as a tool, carnis will naturally crowd around food sources. i just think it'll be more interesting gameplay-wise for them to actually need to compete

#

or rex AI to spawn near large concentrations of herbi AI

#

and erik there were loads of hotspots to choose from in legacy at least in the v3 map

mossy yew
#

Both AI and plants should be used to remove hotspots by making the entire map useful. Not so I have only a few select spots for bushes and then if I dare to roam on my slow ass stego I'll be stuck with grazing for no good reason.

onyx bobcat
#

keep in mind these hotspots will attract carnis, and repel most herbis unless they want to be a part of the AI herd

mossy yew
#

Eh, twins, great falls, docks. Trike mountain I suppose. Still had a huge deal of the map and areas relatively empty most of the time.

onyx bobcat
#

and im thinking these would be spread across the map, i.e, one in the northwest, one in the south, east, etc. -- so the whole map WILL be utilized since people will travel between hotspots

mossy yew
#

Not a fan of that sort of emptiness personally.

cedar merlin
#

if ai is done well enough you wont need or miss players

onyx bobcat
#

raptor falls usually had people near it

#

there was a hill a ways away from great falls where you could almost always find herreras

#

there were plenty of people spread out on legacy

mossy yew
#

Herreras? :p

onyx bobcat
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y e s

mossy yew
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They're not in survival?

onyx bobcat
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on the servers i played on, you could ask to be spawned in as one, then you could nest others in

mossy yew
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Perhaps I should clarify then, I played on officials only, so experience is from those servers. Not what people were up to on "sandbox" that may or may not also have extra server slots and events and stuff.

onyx bobcat
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it wasnt sandbox

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it was survival

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it was also a no rules server

mossy yew
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Hence "". As in, you can get and do stuff you can't on a normal survival server.

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But still not the actual survival mode.

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Alt turn? :p

onyx bobcat
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no

mossy yew
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So yeah, not an official experience then. Maybe it worked out better there, but on officials it was more empty in general.

onyx bobcat
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it's very possible for people to spread out tho

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or it was on legacy

mossy yew
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Oh yes, it is possible

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But people aren't likely to do it

onyx bobcat
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i agree that evrima's very concentrated in the central area

mossy yew
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Less so when both herbi and carni food tends to be in specific areas

cedar merlin
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you dont think that would be boring having ai spawn in the exact same spots and not moving?

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i want them to move or at least give the feeling of moving

onyx bobcat
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it would be within a fairly wide radius bruh

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id love for AI to migrate between hotspots but idk how complex that'd be

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performance-wise

cedar merlin
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the bridge would be random spawn points

mossy yew
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AI should preferably spawn in a general area and then move about, living it's own life. And said area should be active/inactive based on amount of players. The more players, the less AI, vice versa. Possibly even AI active based on what the players are there, so you could adjust it more based on if there's already a good mix or only one single species there.

cedar merlin
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i cant just go to the river by this road to find a dryo there every single time

plush swallow
cedar merlin
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that is not the style that we have seen so far

onyx bobcat
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okay, try to imagine this, and this is what i mean when i say hotspots: a large colony of dryos living in the rocky plains near the east river. a herd of gallimimus near central that sprint around those plains. a herd of tenontos near the plains around the swamp. that sort of thing. NEVER AI out on its own, like with the current random spawns

cedar merlin
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interesting

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doesnt feel natural though

onyx bobcat
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this way, herbis can go be a part of a herd if there arent many players of their same species. also, carnis couldnt just chase down dryos because they have an alert system that makes em all go down in their burrows or sprint away ahead of time

cedar merlin
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better than what we have now though

onyx bobcat
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and wdym "natural" herding is very natural for herbis?

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plus it would fix the empty feeling of the game rn. sprinkling random AI dryos into a forest that either sit down and let you eat them, or sprint away never to be seen again, doesnt help make the world feel more alive

cedar merlin
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just well im hungry let me head on over to dryo rock

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doesnt let you roam

onyx bobcat
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"well im hungry let me go sit in a forest and hope a dryo spawns"?

cedar merlin
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but like you said i could roam between the known hotspots

onyx bobcat
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yeah

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also if all the AI are in herds, it'd make more sense for say, rex AI to spawn to make it more dangerous for carnis to hunt. not impossible cos rexes are slow, but more risky than just "hm free food". it also makes more sense than having an entire AI rex spawn just because there's 1 dryo nearby

cedar merlin
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i just worry with time that would get old going to the same predictable spots

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the randomness would make you look search sniff ...hunt

onyx bobcat
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sure, its not like you're forced to go to those spots, and most herbis (other than those that wanna join the AI herd) would avoid those spots like hell

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there'll be other non-AI spots where there'll be a lot of player herbis, like if there's an area where a lot of bushes spawn

cedar merlin
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yeah we know heard joining is a thing devs talked about and fights within the herd

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kind of gives the impression they wont despawn

onyx bobcat
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again, when i say "hotspot" i mean a fairly large area. again, like the plains near central. large enough where you wouldnt immediately spot the herd, but where it still makes sense for that dino species to live (i.e, gallimimuses)

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it makes no sense for the gallis to go screw off and run into the forest

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again, id love migrations n stuff if it'd be possible, but it seems like migrations would be hard to keep track of

cedar merlin
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ok i see so they would be in an area and i would have to explore the area to find them

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from what we have been shown i think we are in store for something like that

onyx bobcat
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yeh

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i do think some things (i.e, a dryo colony) would have to be more stable location-wise cos of burrows but yeah

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maybe if they get spooked too much they abandon their burrows

idle schooner
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@coral steppe Your suggestion for POV switching is better for #general-feedback. You can post it over there. 🙂

coral steppe
astral trail
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Concept/suggestion: Nesting being a way to also generate new AI would be unique. For instance, a Deinosuchus is likely to lay a dozen eggs or more realistically. When the eggs are complete, players can be invited into the nest for a certain period of time just like in Legacy, but once the timeframe is over, the remaining hatchlings unclaimed by players would then generate in game in the area as young AI.

burnt reef
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wrong channel

warped lake
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Yep, though not a bad idea

sonic notch
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Day 3 trying survive as a raptor. The AI only proc's under 25% before full grown..... most of the time your passing over the very low cries of a dryo unless it runs right past you. If your not running to each spawn location killing babies or in a pack with food on hand it seems really hard to to play anything besides Deino and petra. on the carnivore side of things..

plush swallow
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play those then. Let two of the 8 playables have a challenge finding food.

sleek bone
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Carnivores are supposed to be hard to sustain thats the point

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Already enough utahs and carno swarms its nice to hear the sneaky ai leads to at least some sliver of population control

warped lake
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I love your suggestion @olive sluice, everything is on point and it has a reason to be there

olive sluice
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oh! Thankyou!
Im glad u agree with it :D

winged glacier
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While I like his suggestion, seems extremely difficult to apply such complexity to AI in the game

warped lake
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I don't think so, it's possible to make, maybe it's not as simple as I think it is but I don't think it should be impossible

plush swallow
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the dodge is crap, why even try to teach the bots to use it when it's better not to?

torpid vortex
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Huh?TI_Yikes

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Dodge is beautiful, what u on about?

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Teach bots? School is closed.....

torpid vortex
silver raven
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Yes you can, because it is

torpid vortex
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Joke is on you Turbo.....

warped lake
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Also Turbo if you're here just to "shit" on people that want a decent AI in the game, just leave. At this point I'm 95% sure this part of the community doesn't want to hear your opinion about AI

torpid vortex
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Ouch!!!

sleek bone
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with some future AI it would make sense for them to prioritize game trails for travel but for dryo it makes sense for it to work as it does now

plush swallow
torpid vortex
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Hard it is, 2 make AI

warped lake
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In AI Suggestions tab

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If you dont have anything smart to say, keep calm and shush

plush swallow
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it's feedback, doesn't have to be suggestions. Killing a single dryo bot shouldn't be enough food to fully grow a dino.

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surely we can agree on that

warped lake
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Oh I can agree to that, but I dont want AI for food, I want it to make the world feel alive

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I know you want a more pvp style isle, and theres nothing wrong with that, but downvoting AI suggestions, every single one, no matter what its about, is downright annoying to see

torpid vortex
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we need "smarter" AI, we can all agree on that?

warped lake
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^

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That man needs a cookie

faint sierra
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Does ai other than fish spawn at swamp?

plush swallow
faint sierra
plush swallow
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I mean not in the actual swamp, but in the plains around

faint sierra
plush swallow
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It's not that hard, really.

faint sierra
woeful sapphire
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AI seem to spawn on the outside of the map (between the rivers and the ocean/map edge). I have never seen them spawn in the interior.

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I have consistently found AI near warehouse.

soft scarab
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If you head south of swamp there are plenty of ai around. They don’t always call out but if you search you will find them. I’ve found 4 ai so far. Some small dryo some adult dryo.

warped lake
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@silver raven thats some amazing feedback bro

silver raven
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Thanks, I was actually worried people wouldn't like it

pseudo crystal
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Nice feedback @silver raven

glad tangle
plush swallow
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If you're having a hard time finding food just be one of the 6/8 dinos that get it for free

glad tangle
warped lake
onyx bobcat
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admittedly it's true that upping the terrestrial AI that's currently in the game would make things a bit too easy. however some people have said that dryo AI used to be way more complex and harder to hunt back a few weeks ago in QA / stress tests so if that gets added back in, upping the AI at that point wouldnt be free meals hopefully...

olive sluice
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yeah see the thing with that, the idea of making AI super scarce, is its a cheep way out of making the game hard/challenging (and a boring one gameplay wise)

If you make AI borderline impossible to find, frustrating, then yeah ppl will find it hard
But if you make them easy to find then u gotta make em hard to catch - it'll still be hard like before, but this time its due to bad hunting, not luck. This time you get to actually hunt things, apply tactics, you get to fail hunts, which makes succeeding in them fun and actually rewarding as well.

onyx bobcat
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yeh i agree with that

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just hope the devs can make it so that the AI is hard to catch, plentiful, and doesn't absolutely obliterate performance at the same time

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unfortunately evrima already has a boatload of performance issues so i imagine the dev team is probably prioritizing basic optimization before adding more intensive stuff like complex AI

warped lake
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@glad tangle if it was possible to map out forests as a path, like a whole forest like a circle, AI could scatter to the nearest forest it can pathfind to. I like your idea and I think it has a lot of potential, and thats just pathfinding alone

torpid vortex
vagrant belfry
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maybe add some carcass rewarding exploration as a placeholder. now we have whole beach and no body uses it because you cetainly starve/dehydrate there and taking a walk is nothing more than a gimmick right now.

but right now its really a problem and depending on a deino friend on a low pop server to get fed is sad. (yeah i had more luck blindly hiting the water than actively looking for AI)

torpid vortex
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No, youre wrong, dont you know any AI spawn points/coords?

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Imo AI as it is working, wont let you starve if you play it right, if you do the right thing, it will come directly into your bites and in your belly. TI_pachy