balance-feedback-discussion

[alpine plover]

just scroll up

[azure hinge]

Why are people calling for Utah nerf day one

[alpine plover]

Because the skill floor for Utah has been lowered

Though it might not necessarily be a bad thing, considering the conditioning for this playable might have us always used to playing it with high difficulty.

[azure hinge]

I'm going to say this and I hate playing Utah, hence I haven't played it once in evrima yet

[alpine plover]

Maybe too high for awhile

[azure hinge]

Utah was so bad before

[opaque beacon]

It hasent been lowerd, other dinos such as carno for example need skill to kill Utahs now

[azure hinge]

Idk how anyone played Utah, now they can actually exist and not be entirely camped

[opaque beacon]

Thats all and people dont like it cause utah should die to everything like update 3

[alpine plover]

It kinda has,
Pounce was like a sniper before, Land the shot or die
But the issue with that, was that Pounce didn't hit as hard as a "Sniper"
Therefore it was okay to lower the punishment for pounce

[azure hinge]

This isn't a fighting game btw, if you catch a Utah away from its group

You kill it easy

[opaque beacon]

Yep

[azure hinge]

They are still easy to kill

[alpine plover]

If you get medium affects, it should take medium difficulty to use an ability

[obtuse ocean]

How do yu kill a utah ? with carno? I mean dont the utah have the skill do use w/d keyes and run to the woods

[alpine plover]

Pounce before was high difficulty, but with medium affects/results
The risk/reward didn't match

[azure hinge]

? It didn't work before

[obtuse ocean]

And utahs gonna have the ability to run up in trees, according to concept

[alpine plover]

When it did work, that was a core issue with it's implementation regardless

[azure hinge]

I mean u just brought up concept, that has nothing to do with anything yet

[alpine plover]

They nerfed "tap pounces" too
So Pounce spamming doesn't seem likely unless you're fighting a huge pack(which you shouldn't)

[azure hinge]

But you guys are attacking Utah day 1

Day 1

Carno had its fun running around killing everything on land for months

[alpine plover]

I'm not

[azure hinge]

Think some of the people put too much time into the isle like it's a 2nd life fighting game, after all this is a survival game, maybe Utah just kills carno from now on because food chain 🤷‍♂️

[obtuse ocean]

watch clip in balance feedback, you might get a better understanding.

[azure hinge]

I did

It wasn't a good argument

[obtuse ocean]

I dont think im gonna listen to someone who has never played utah if its good or bad arguement : P

[alpine plover]

I play Utah frequently

I have gripes with poutines analysis

[obtuse ocean]

I dont mind dying to utahs, but i dont want to look at utahs missing pounce all over the place. And not be punished

[alpine plover]

I think fishing out missed pounces shouldn't have been a surefire counter to Utah to begin with

[dusky surge]

i feel that the whole getup anim is sort of fine since there's been some changes to penalise it

[alpine plover]

You still can catch missed pounces, but not too an insane extent like previously

[dusky surge]

can't spam it, bucking (especially on pachy) is very effective now, you can brush utahs off using obstacles

[alpine plover]

True

[azure hinge]

I mean honestly doing slight nerf to pounce to punish them is fine, but maybe down the line if they are a problem

But the problem is game devs typically over nerf

[alpine plover]

You can use terrain, swerve and catch them right beside you. Stay unpredictable in movements. Dodge Pounce itself

[dusky surge]

like i think the difference is now that the counterplay is more potent after they've landed, rather than constantly being punished for missing

[alpine plover]

Even if it does land, fights will always be extended, giving you ample opportunity to change positions, tactics, or punish margin of error

[rapid flicker]

“Dodge pounce” and then what? Wait for it to do another?

[alpine plover]

If Utah got powered nerfs like increased bleed, damage, stamina, the crazy across the board buffs like Carno previously did, Then we'd have a problem.

[alpine plover]

That's one exchange where they lost, stam is crucial and they lost a portion of no reason
There's also time to counter, swerve, or reposition.

[rapid flicker]

That’s like saying “dodge pachy ram so it loses stamina”

You dodge the ram so you can attack yourself

[alpine plover]

Uhh, that's valid tho

You can

[rapid flicker]

Because it give you a window of opportunity

[alpine plover]

It does yeah

Common tactic to bring down Pachys as Utah, even in U4

Just with a normal bite, or sneaking a pounce in

[opaque beacon]

Now that I have watched the video, I honestly believe its not as bad as people place it

[rapid flicker]

Apart from pounce recovery speed and growth/weight ratio Utah is in a good spot rn

[opaque beacon]

The delay is not that bad, its just a little bit too quick

[alpine plover]

True, a slight tweak would be fine. But it's not so bad

I disagree with it being 2 seconds at minimum though

[rapid flicker]

So what was the original timer?

4 seconds?

[alpine plover]

I forgot again

[opaque beacon]

and considering the FACT that everything either cripples the utah in 1 hit, not to say one teno kick and the utah is dead because its knocked out, and the pachy can disable the utah, and carno can charge a utah and kill it in one go. Even tho carno 3 shots a utah, I still reccomend the ambush and getting that ram in.

[alpine plover]

Though it was way too long

[rapid flicker]

If it was 4 seconds, then I think 2 is fine

[opaque beacon]

2 seconds was the original I think

[alpine plover]

I disagree with 2 seconds
Utah's ability is the only ability in the game that can be negated once landed

[rapid flicker]

Then maybe 1.25 now is fine

[opaque beacon]

I love how people hate on utah so much and such but when Utah had a 55 bite dammege and bleed was trash and pounce was broken nobody cared

[alpine plover]

You can minimize the affects by bucking, brushing them off with terrain, or slow bleed down by getting stationery into a really good position.

[opaque beacon]

lmao

[rapid flicker]

Everybody agreed pounce needed a fix

There was just no room for argument there

It just need a “fix”

[opaque beacon]

Well I dont know if people were crying like this since I wasent in the discord but I guess

[alpine plover]

The long missed pounce delay also needed a fix too

No reason it shouldn't have been that long

[opaque beacon]

1.5s Utah pounce delay should be it.

[rapid flicker]

When you talk about ability timers you can actually discuss something, but when a mechanics doesn’t work it’s either you want it to work or not

[alpine plover]

True

[opaque beacon]

But the bleed and everything else should be kept the same

[alpine plover]

I'd wait on it personally
Terrain hard counter Pounce atm

[opaque beacon]

Because just like every other dinos speacial ability, it should be a major problem

[alpine plover]

If it's busted, you could tweak it that high again

[rapid flicker]

True, I think Utah would have been fine if the pounce would work in U4

[alpine plover]

I disagree it would've been fine

[opaque beacon]

I mean they dident change anything for utah's bleed

they just got a dammege buff

Carnos blood got nerfed

[alpine plover]

They nerfed tap pounces, so that affects it as a whole. You gotta commit to them now

[rapid flicker]

Yes! For all the Utah mains here, pls fuck the carnos up good!!

They’ve been annoying for too long

[opaque beacon]

Lmao, pays for all those long carno terrifying days

[rapid flicker]

Won’t be long until carnos mains start crying in discord

For buffs

[alpine plover]

Tbh, as long as they're not weak in the balance sense, I'll gladly go hunt them

Payback time

[opaque beacon]

Ok tell me if you guys feel right about this

[rapid flicker]

Becuase they can’t play with 1 hand anymore

[opaque beacon]

Me and a pach of 3 other utahs were hunting two tenos, we got two full pounces on one teno and a couple of bites too, he kept running/walking and bled out after 1 minute and 20 seconds, do you think thats fair?

pack*

[alpine plover]

Wait

Full pounces?

[opaque beacon]

What I mean is getting ofd after have 20-30% stam

off*, most utah mains call it full pounce

[alpine plover]

Were they bucking?

[opaque beacon]

No

[alpine plover]

Nah

They deserved that death

There's so much you can do to negate that

[opaque beacon]

Lol ok just checking the vibe lol

If they pounced they could of lived longer

[alpine plover]

Did they reposition in a corner or they had cover, near water of the sort?

[opaque beacon]

nope, they were running around/walking like carnos xd

"fighting back"

[alpine plover]

Well of course they deserved to die. Doing everything wrong they could've be doing gave them a bit over a minute death timer seems fair.

[opaque beacon]

Cool lol

Well 32 people have proven my point anyways...

People just need to be more careful when fighting

[alpine plover]

The changes to Teno and Utah are going to have Carno's be more adept in their approaches now

Use different tactics for different playables

Since U4 and now in U5 for fighting Teno's they've had to be sliding, baiting, getting tricky

Now it might be reversed in this case for fighting Utahs
Using more defensive tactics, dodging, relying on terrain.

[frail bobcat]

But the utah overpop is insanity, its worse than the carno overpop

I think the nerf to the pounce delay (I am convinced it will come) will fix that

[obtuse ocean]

I think the same, it will come

[rapid flicker]

No I don’t think it is

Oh nvm actually

If they weren’t bucking then that’s on them

And they 100% deserve that death

[alpine plover]

Yeahhhh

There's a list of counters they didn't use either

[rapid flicker]

Its crazy how players still don’t know how to counter pounces

Mostly carnos tho, because that dino takes 0 skill to play

[obtuse ocean]

How does it not take skill to play?

[frail bobcat]

The funny thing is the game TELLS you that you need to press e to buck

[obtuse ocean]

I mean i dont have the luxery with great agility as the utah player have

[rapid flicker]

You can legit kill every dino apart from stego and deino without putting any effort in

Let me redirect the question, @obtuse ocean Dp you think carno is hard to play?

[frail bobcat]

I saw a carno at NW yesterday, some utahs just ripped into pieces

[obtuse ocean]

Catching a utah is hard if he knows how to use keyboards and run for the woods, if he dont. He deserve do die from carno, as he should

[rapid flicker]

But all he can do is run tho

That’s his only defence

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, cus carnos dont have that luxery

[frail bobcat]

Its a good defence

[opaque beacon]

Teno is rlly hard for me to play tbh

[obtuse ocean]

It takes skill from the carno to catch it, and it takes skill from the utah to not get cought

[opaque beacon]

its just so hard for me lol

[rapid flicker]

No you just have speed and power 🤣

[frail bobcat]

Its a high skillceiling animal

[alpine plover]

If a Utah knows how to play his keyboard, then he deserves to be slippery to catch
Since it's health is so low

[opaque beacon]

yeh

[alpine plover]

He has to move in to attack at some point if it's a fight, which costs more stam for it

[frail bobcat]

Just z run and go for the woods

[obtuse ocean]

Sounds like the utah player dont have the skill to avoid it, since it have much better agility. If carno wouldt be able to catch the utah, it would have not much to fear

[rapid flicker]

Im saying carno is easy to play, that’s all

[alpine plover]

Not anymore

[rapid flicker]

You have legit every stat apart from agility

[alpine plover]

Utah's can catch them slipping

[frail bobcat]

Not anymore, you are gonna fear utah packs now

[rapid flicker]

About time they can

Carno had its reign for too long

[frail bobcat]

No dino should have a reign at any time

Like on land

[rapid flicker]

That’s how it will be tho

[alpine plover]

True, they'll be a best pick on most situations regardless

For carnivores

[frail bobcat]

Carnos or utah?

[obtuse ocean]

Thats sorta true, but ur also smaller and you can jump. And that agility is huge to have, its the tradeoff you do by having less dmg. Carno dont have pounce either

[alpine plover]

Utah's powerscale is relative to it's numbers size
So even by design, Utah will be more generalist than most of the carnivores on the roster.

[frail bobcat]

Its kinda viable in every biome

[alpine plover]

Yeah, though it'll still have bad matchups

[frail bobcat]

But it can just run from them

[alpine plover]

True, so can Carno

[neat forge]

Not higher than 1 Sec 0.7 is the best imo

[frail bobcat]

1.25

He arrived

[fallen vale]

I think people need to come to term with the fact that it's an asymetric PvP survival game that they are balancing and not a BBC Wild life documentary narrated by David Attenborough. My video might sound alarming to some and I might be even wrong but it was intended BEFORE the patch was released as a warning since we didn't have the data at all on ST to suggest what people would actually play once release as we played with like 10 people... I do think the more people will get gang banged by large utah packs with super permissive pounces both in term of latching (I have clear video evidence of utah pouncing directly into a carno tail from the utah point of view and being ported on the side succesfully) a lot of people will apply the "If you can't beat them join them" approach which would have a domino effect.

PvP online game have a long demonstrated history people of picking what is generally admitted as "the strong pick". I personally like to play the underdog for the challenge of it and it's also much easier to shine when you play what is considered "the underdog". Most people don't go with that approach tough...

[obtuse ocean]

Wait, if utahs uses pounce on tail or front of the carno. He aimbots on to the sides ?

[frail bobcat]

Can you punish a utah in 0.7 seconds for a failed pounce?

I cant

[keen plover]

0.7 is way too low lol

[neat forge]

Thats the point lol

[keen plover]

?

So no risk to pouncing?

[neat forge]

Sarcasm....

[keen plover]

I mean... bad takes are common

[neat forge]

I know too that 0.7 is to low
A Human has a reaction time 0.2-0.4 sec

1-1.15 Seconds is Good imo

[fallen vale]

Of course. Most people don't realise how strong "impact pounce" is at the moment but once they do good luck any other dino in the open lol. As a Utah I can just brawl carnos no problem. You stay in that range where they don't have the distance to build the momentum to charge and if they come for a bite, POUNCE. That's it. There's a whole section about it in my video

https://youtu.be/HX3pKiAd-5o

[keen plover]

Impact pounce is busted, true. I hate how utahs can pounce from the front, tank a hit and essentially trade that hit and get good bleed off

Imo, 2 seconds is a good range for missing a pounce. Yes, punishing - but that's the point of missing such an ability with that potential. Also still a buff compared to last build where it was like 3-4 seconds iirc

[fallen vale]

It's a complete joke, any decent player would have already figured how to abuse it and will be just brawling carnos. I personally still managed to have fun on carno but you need to really know the map and how to use the terrain to your advantage to win your fights against utahs. The plain is utah territory now, don't waste your time there as a carno unless you have buddies who are actually reliable. Got a 1vs10 fight coming up on my next carno video which I think people will enjoy. But it shows to which lenght I go terrain wise to win my fights

[alpine plover]

True, but I think the playerbase should adapt to a functioning playable firstly with a now less risky ability for the laundry list of counterplay to minimize or outright negate this playables ability. The large Utah packs, or carni packs in general are due to the food/diet system over representing the carni population. Since players were always picking Utah, just that the bugs prevented it from ever being a valid pick in the majority of Evrima's life span. If large packs are to form, it'd be fault of the lack of mechanics to prevent this. Since large Carno megapacks were happening before this situation as well. So the "future" coming of large swarms of Utah to come are because of external factors rooted in the game. If it's not Utah, it's Carno, Or Cera, to Allo, all the way down to Rex.
I think one ability slightly being too easy or strong in your eyes that would make you think that a domino effect to come plague the game, says more about the game then the playable itself.

[keen plover]

I did it multiple times today. Killed a carno like that with others in the open. What does 1 bite matter when 1 good pounce will make a carno stand in place to avoid bleeding out / losing a lot of blood mid fight?

[frail bobcat]

I havent grown my utah to 100% yet but I think I will be much stronger as a utah because of the buffs. I am a decent player with utah I would say

[fallen vale]

It's the first thing I said in my video though. If you get one bite for a pounce out in a large who cares pack? Amazing trade

Look at the comments, I got so blasted loll

[frail bobcat]

You can just heal

[keen plover]

1 sec lmao

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but as utah you can hunt/chase 80% of the rooster. Thats like rex on steroids.

[alpine plover]

Not a fair analogy

Rex can one shot most things

[fallen vale]

This is what I mean by "aimbot pounce". Look at where on his scren his pounce was heading, keep in mind he is in NA and it was a EU server against a EU player (Elmaco was the carno, I'm the charging one). That means on the server the Carno was even further in front that what he sees on his screen.

https://clips.twitch.tv/BetterBlitheToadBCouch-L6ln74h7mMxdoLPb

[obtuse ocean]

yes, but it cant catch anything more or less.

[alpine plover]

Lots of things can one shot Utah, or put it in severe condition.

And it takes time for Utah to accumulate enough affect to become concerning.

[fallen vale]

sorry I changed the link to the clip

[alpine plover]

No problem

[frail bobcat]

They should make it harder for utah to latch onto enemys

[alpine plover]

I don't mind removing permissive pounces, it's silly to have any attack be permissive

[frail bobcat]

At least from the front and the tail

[keen plover]

My issue with balance is:
They buff a creature a decent amount and then nerf a creature in its tier.

[alpine plover]

True, they got to stop that shit

[keen plover]

Poor pachy

[frail bobcat]

True

[alpine plover]

I feel bad for it
Tho the "Carni" Pachys needed to be looked at though

[fallen vale]

That's my beef with it. It lowers big time the skill cap for utahs and disbalance the game. If you check what I wrote in #balance-feedback none of it has anything to do with bleed values / damage. It's about giving the opponents real opportunities to punish bad plays, especially given that you fight MANY utahs all the time.

Utah is the new dino for mouth breathers now

[keen plover]

True, but too many nerfs to it and buffs to utah. Utah bite buff so now it needs 8 bites to kill a a pachy. Universal knockdown timers are lower, utahs recover pounce quicker. Pachy does less damage per charge. Utahs can get off while doing some absolutely dumb moves

[frail bobcat]

Mouth breathers?

[keen plover]

Some nerfs aren't as direct, but still a nerf to pachy gameplay

[fallen vale]

https://tenor.com/view/draymond-green-mouth-open-jaw-dropped-nba-gif-13067119

[frail bobcat]

Just tell me

[keen plover]

pretty much an idiot

[frail bobcat]

Oh a tryhard?

[alpine plover]

Other than permissive pounces, it'd be in a pretty decent spot rn

[fallen vale]

gave you an example, guy playing The Isle while looking like this lol

[fallen vale]

I agree. I like having to fear bleed on carno now. I hate that I know utahs are just coming in for an aim bot frontal impact pounce

Going face to face against any utah with non geriatric reflexes now means being pounced

[frail bobcat]

They are doing the opposite they are supposed to and they get rewarded for it

[fallen vale]

exactly

I win my fights because I know where to hangout to shrug them off into water and kill them or stuff like that, in plains it's a complete joke

[stone glen]

@topaz panther lol spino is larger and heavier than rex, his claws do dmg equal to other apex bites and also doin bleed.. So it can protect himself from rex and other apex.

[alpine plover]

Frontal is a bit finnicky when it comes to hitboxes
It'll be hard to make it fair other than a small window
You'd have to take into account different agilities too

[fallen vale]

And I think I play carno above most of the player base (stay tuned for my carno video loll, I'm the one charging in that Dbear clip btw). If I have huge trouble in plains like that, the average Joe is in trouble

[obtuse ocean]

I remember a clip they showed where utah jumped on a trike, and it got impaled. Thats how it should been

[frail bobcat]

Its not heavier. Spino is 6 tons, rex is 11 tons

[opaque beacon]

Is anyone having an fps drop when looking north?

[alpine plover]

pls dont talk realism guys ffs

[keen plover]

That's a thing again?

[stone glen]

Spino about 10 t, rex 6

[dusky surge]

we're talking about Isle spino

[dusky surge]

this is also wrong wtf

[obtuse ocean]

rex gonna be king

[opaque beacon]

Im getting perfect butter smooth 60 fps when I look south, moment I look north I get 40

):

[keen plover]

[alpine plover]

Wait a second, what's your guys opinion on tail riding

[opaque beacon]

Im getting sixty fps, just in one direction..

[stone glen]

And how is it?

[frail bobcat]

Bad

[keen plover]

I mean, I only like it when a deino is out of stam - apart from that, no

[dusky surge]

rex was not that light

[alpine plover]

Okay, what if tail riding was an actual nuanced fair mechanic

[frail bobcat]

Like 9 tons?

[dusky surge]

yea around

[frail bobcat]

Bad

[keen plover]

largest is like 11T range right?

or 10T?

[dusky surge]

that still sounds lame

[keen plover]

Only fine with deino and only when it's out of stam

[fallen vale]

erf, hypotetic balance discussions about hypotetical dinosaurs 1 day after a major content release

[alpine plover]

How so

[fallen vale]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-so-obama-gif-13697285

[keen plover]

Typical here

[dusky surge]

tailriding imho is just fucking lame looking and boring

[frail bobcat]

The islecord

[dusky surge]

i've never liked it

[frail bobcat]

^

[alpine plover]

Extrapolate

[stone glen]

And btw wtf s this? Spino is the largest teropod

[dusky surge]

legacy fights always looked ridiculous to me, i never felt like these were animals fighting to the death

[keen plover]

maybe in 2015

[dusky surge]

just sweaty gamers exploiting hitboxes

[placid reef]

maybe longest but def not the heaviest

[fallen vale]

https://tenor.com/view/boring-randy-marsh-south-park-s22e2-a-priest-and-a-boy-gif-20405246

[frail bobcat]

It actually isnt, largest is defined by heaviest. And the rex is heavier, that means larger

[fallen vale]

this, case closed, moving on now

[placid reef]

in fiarness 90% of people reffer to size as literally size in length and height

[opaque beacon]

@keen plover

[keen plover]

yes?

[alpine plover]

I'm working on a piece right now about a stress/balance feature that covers wrestling, checking, tripping, grappling, and could include in a balanced intense version of tail riding.

[dusky surge]

EVRIMA feels much more realistic. Animals aim for weakspots, use unique fighting/hunting styles and so on

[opaque beacon]

see pure 60

[keen plover]

yep

[stone glen]

Spino had monolith bones without air to dive better. Rex had air in bones. How tf u think he must be smaller in weight

[opaque beacon]

I look other way and get 51 XD

[dusky surge]

i cant see a way it'd be intense. It just looks silly

[frail bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/science-gif-21517990

[keen plover]

Damn... That issue did suck a lot in update 3 iirc

[placid reef]

ah yes... the bones make 90% of the weight

[alpine plover]

For visuals, imagine an oryx swinging it's long horns around to stab a lion in the back.
It'd work in similar fashion.

[frail bobcat]

Muscles. The rex be hitting the gym

[placid reef]

indeed

even his tiny arms could curl more than any human alive

[opaque beacon]

Bro I could literarly get 60 fps in the isle if it werent there

I rlly wish it can be fixed..

[stone glen]

And spino was semi aquatic, he could be heavy like 10t. Btw he could walk on his 4 tho. So he was heavier.

[frail bobcat]

Bro could lift 180 kg

[frail bobcat]

Huh?

[stone glen]

?

[placid reef]

yup, fucker was just built dif

[alpine plover]

Grappling into a tail ride would take work to achieve also. Rather than Legacy's spin in body inside unavoidable pockets.

[frail bobcat]

Fucking prehistoric planet says that the rex was the largest land predator to have ever lived

And they only rely on confirmed sources

[topaz panther]

That's great, but doesn't change the fact that Rex's bite could crush spinos head, but not vice versa

[placid reef]

beeing semi aquatic doesnt mean it will be heavier than a only landbased animal, is a hippo heavier than an elephant? no

[stone glen]

Lol, yes. But LAND PREDATOR. Spino is semi-aquatic fisher

[obtuse ocean]

Thats actually one ability spino gonna have, grab and twist/crush head of others dinos

[fallen vale]

Often these things can be approached in weight or sheer size. But frankly, who cares lol?

[stone glen]

I said that he can allow himself to be that heavy. He was bigger, that s a fact

[placid reef]

he was longer, rex was heavier

[frail bobcat]

Actually the largest specimen of spinosaurus that was ever found had an estimated size of 11 meters

But its rumored to be a subadult

Because larger fragments have been found

[keen plover]

ahem #paleotalk

[frail bobcat]

Shush

[keen plover]

[topaz panther]

Spino would definitely be a good match Vs Rex, but Rex would have the upper hand

[obtuse ocean]

Nah, apexes wont have any fair fights. Spino gonna be king in water not land

[placid reef]

depends on biome

[keen plover]

I mean, our spino is a monster... Hardly anything like irl

[topaz panther]

Talking about land

[placid reef]

i'd say giga will have better times in forests, rex in open fields and spino in water

[placid reef]

oh yea on land especially on plaisn rex has a much better advantage

[frail bobcat]

But I doubt that it will be stronget than rex

[placid reef]

water

[dusky surge]

i'd say giga plains rex forest

[frail bobcat]

I would swap the rex and giga biome

[placid reef]

fair

was giga faster or had better endurance than rex?

[frail bobcat]

Giga is gonna be the endurance hunter after all

[dusky surge]

giga is big fast bleeder animal, rex is more close range brawler ambush

[keen plover]

No comment on that

[frail bobcat]

Both I think

[placid reef]

Rex casually powerwalks its victim to death

[frail bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/muscle-black-guy-funny-walk-on-my-way-mad-gif-17251597

[placid reef]

thats why im not sure about endurance giga when rex is literally designed for that

[dusky surge]

giga should just be fast

[placid reef]

yea giga i think of bleed and ig in addition fast and agile

[dusky surge]

it was fast irl so it should be fast in game, that's its thing

[frail bobcat]

Giga pounce, lol

[obtuse ocean]

They have said rex will be more or less the same he was in legacy, powerhouse close up.

[placid reef]

https://tenor.com/view/moana-delete-maui-delete-this-gif-15101621

[keen plover]

Idk, the kit for rex screams ambush. Quickly get in and fracture something rather than follow and fracture. Unless I'm missing something?

[placid reef]

rex couldnt run for shit

[dusky surge]

high damage, low stam, fractures, def ambush

[placid reef]

he just powerwalks for ages

[dusky surge]

which is why it'd work better as an ambush imho

[placid reef]

so yea he needs to ambush

[dusky surge]

it has no running endurance to speak of

[placid reef]

ambush but he's also not gonna give up if it fails, after all, he doesnt need to be the fastest, just faster than it prey, which is slow as hell

[frail bobcat]

Rex just walks menacingly

[topaz panther]

Also, don't think Spino has enough arm strength to twist Rex's neck lol

[frail bobcat]

Spino gotta hit the gym

[placid reef]

it has the claws but not the build

it could prob poke its eyes

[topaz panther]

It would be able to mortaly wound Rex, but wouldn't come up on top

[frail bobcat]

Spino wont beat a rex in a land 1 vs 1

[keen plover]

I mean, it should be able to defend well enough for a rex to not kill it. More like a draw where the rex can move off imo.

[placid reef]

it depends on how good spino is at defense since itsdef not more movable thna rex on land

[keen plover]

oh yeah, rex will likely be faster

I just don't think in terms of balance, a spino should be locked to water biomes due to another apex carni

Also doesn't make sense for monster spino imo, which will probs be larger than rex

[placid reef]

it also needs to stick to forests if on land since it wont get nothing on plains

[frail bobcat]

Swamps will be the home of spinos

[obtuse ocean]

Funny thing was they said it could do it to anything : P

[placid reef]

but each apex having a biome where they strive in is good imo

[alpine plover]

We have this talk too often

[keen plover]

We do

[topaz panther]

He wouldn't be bound to water, but he shouldn't fck around Rex's territory

[frail bobcat]

Huh?

[topaz panther]

Did they mention growth size? He would be able to snap 50% Rex's neck, but 100%? Don't think so

[obtuse ocean]

this, from what i see. Thats antyhing lol

[frail bobcat]

How old?

[topaz panther]

If there's no apex around I don't see a reason Spino couldn't go land hunting if he wants to

[frail bobcat]

Ok, it was formulated a bit weird, but that sounds god

[topaz panther]

If Spino would be uncontested in any biome, what's the point of growing any other apex lol

[frail bobcat]

^

[placid reef]

as long as there is prey sloer than it bc it sure as hell wont be chasing much

[obtuse ocean]

Good question, guess about 1 year. But i think its better to listen to what they say. Then what we think

[frail bobcat]

Could be outdated tho

But its the best source we have

[topaz panther]

I didn't say it would be good. If he wants to try and land hunt, he could...

[obtuse ocean]

I dont know, but from what they said before atleast. They said apexes wont have fair fights, so im guessing rex gonna have a upper hand on land.

[keen plover]

Not uncontested in any biome, just shouldn't be losing immediately when another apex shows up. Should be a tough fight.

[frail bobcat]

A tough fight, but the spino should be leaving if its smart

[keen plover]

Sure, but it should have the means to avoid dying. Rather than being slower and weaker

[obtuse ocean]

Only thing i found about rex was this, so looks like the spino gonna be leaving if the rex comes.

[grave veldt]

i mean it it sort of boils down to if spino is faster then rex thats fine but if its slower then rex it should be able to defend itself especially at the size it is

[frail bobcat]

Spino will dominate the water and will not need such strength that the rex had

[topaz panther]

+1

[obtuse ocean]

yea looks like that, i also found this

[keen plover]

Defense on land. Cool

[frail bobcat]

Good

[grave veldt]

defense on land works well for it

[keen plover]

So a defensive apex carni on land, dope.

[frail bobcat]

Just hold the enemy of until you can escape

[topaz panther]

I don't think apex carnis would want to fight eachother. Why risk losing all the progress when you can bully herbis lol

[grave veldt]

most herbies at least

apart from the much larger ones

[placid reef]

now lets get defensive rex in water

[topaz panther]

Two Rex's just blocking the river

[grave veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-one-eyebrow-raised-rock-staring-the-rock-gif-22113367

[frail bobcat]

Good take

[topaz panther]

I don't think I will touch apexs anyways. Dilo 4life

[placid reef]

we have stegos doing that so i see why not

[topaz panther]

[grave veldt]

unironically stego is one of the worst dinosaurs for utah to fight

[placid reef]

well its designed to counter utah

[frail bobcat]

With anky

[placid reef]

same as anky will, Trike and the other ceratopsians will feel a lot more pain

[grave veldt]

^

[placid reef]

man gotta love this music sometimes, just sitting in a bush and it just starts blasting some epic music you hear in LoTR or smth

[frail bobcat]

Ceratopsians will be very good targets, they cant defend their flanks

[grave veldt]

actually a lot of the dinosaurs currently r pretty ill suited for utah

[placid reef]

anything that uses its tail for defense/ offense is a counter to utah

[grave veldt]

yes the range is too wide

[topaz panther]

Imagine LoTR blasting epic music when Sam is just cooking a soup

[placid reef]

hadrosaurs, ceratopsians and every carni is more in utahs favour of diet

[topaz panther]

Handrosaurs will be the target for Utahs imo

[placid reef]

more ceratopsians since they are less involved with trample mechanics

[topaz panther]

True, I forgot about that

[grave veldt]

i think things for stego and tail like creatures should be more suited towards mid tiers

mix of power and speed

[topaz panther]

I think stego shouldn't have been added this early, he doesn't have any counter rn. That's why he's op

[placid reef]

we could've had kentro...

[frail bobcat]

Not this again

[placid reef]

i just want kentro in the game

[grave veldt]

^^^^^^^^^^^

[topaz panther]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-dilophosaurus-skill-issue-skill-issue-gif-dinosaur-gif-25149749

[frail bobcat]

The kentro got some moves

[topaz panther]

Offence on land

[grave veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-gmod-the-isle-gmod-gif-25129032

[placid reef]

i just want to get austro and kentro already

[topaz panther]

I just want Dilo ..

[frail bobcat]

I just want dilos for utahs as snacks

[topaz panther]

But yeah, Dilo will probably lose Vs Utah..

[placid reef]

at day for sure

damn, sitting in a bush and starts blasting some realy dramatic music

[frail bobcat]

Will be 60/40 on dilos side

[placid reef]

i doubt during the day

[frail bobcat]

During the day its 50/50

I guess

[placid reef]

also the thing that utahs have more numbers most of the time

at night the numbers matter less when dilo has its halucinogenic and better nv

[topaz panther]

True

I just want Dilo to be in the game. But since he was deleted from the roadmap, who knows

[placid reef]

dilo is still on the planned roster for the upcoming future

it didnt get shafted for who knows when

[dusky surge]

no it wasnt

[placid reef]

just more the slider a bit to the right lol

[half girder]

its coming in 2024

[azure crescent]

he wasnt deleted

i prefer megalania

(dilo but better and lizard)

[placid reef]

https://tenor.com/view/giga-chad-gigachad-big-gif-21053844

[topaz panther]

How is megalania like dilo

[azure crescent]

venom

[topaz panther]

I like monitor lizards a lot, but dilo is just cool af

[half girder]

dryo is fun rn what trickery is this

killed like 7 hypsis, a baby utah and 2 baby carnos this should be illegal

[dusky surge]

that's fucking hilarious

dryo S-Tier confirmed?

[half girder]

its more fun than pachy and i main pachy

like wot the frick

i was dying laughing while juking a utah

[topaz panther]

Everything is dogshit before 100% rn. I think that indirectly buffed dryo

[half girder]

i mean a baby carno shouldnt be fighting a big dryo so

i think weight should kick in faster at sub adult for sure

wayy too slow, encourages afk

also

i tanked 5 pachy hits as a sub teno(left at half hp) with the weight change

thats saying something

might just main dryo tbh

[placid reef]

exactly, most animals get 90% of their mass in their teens/ sub stages

[dusky surge]

holy shit it has 20 damage now? what the fuck thats insane

thats a colossal buff

[half girder]

yeah man

i felt like an elden ring boss

[dusky surge]

U3 dryo part 2

[short spire]

Dryo mains stay winning

[dusky surge]

How did dryo of all animals end up being one of the biggest winners of this patch?

[grave veldt]

W dryo

Actually seeing dryo players is cool

[next warren]

so i havent seen anybody bitching about tenos getting a bite force buff, how does everyone feel about it?

[fading dew]

Teno deserved it

[next warren]

ehh i disagree, tenos should be forced to play around their tails and kicks more so than just being able to left click dinos.

[dusky surge]

it's pretty meaningless ngl, i dont think it really matters

all your other attacks still dwarf it in damage and effectiveness

[next warren]

maybe for most match ups but utah vs teno feels really bad now. their bite does almost 50% of a utahs max hp so you cant play for the head and avoid tail. both just kinda smack the shit out of you. Maybe im bad who knows lol

[dusky surge]

how much does it do? i'm certain it doesn't do that much

[next warren]

it could be a mixture of growth change, i was probably 90% utah and it happened to me last night.

gotta test it when im 100%

[fading dew]

yeah growth system sucks from what I have heard. I havent been able to play the update yet tho, I'm on vacation ;-;

[molten ermine]

If I remember right the bite force was 30

[slim dragon]

In order for teno bite to deal 50% of an utah's health it would need to do 225 damage
Which is highly unlikely to happen

[dusky surge]

huh, i think it might be 35

[fading dew]

when you realize dryo is currently legacy galli 2.0:

[molten ermine]

Might be

[obtuse ocean]

im growing my first now, are they faster then utahs ? : P

[fading dew]

pretty sure utah and dryo have the same speed

idk, I'm on vacation

[obtuse ocean]

why on earth would i play dryo then lol

[fading dew]

bully juvies

[obtuse ocean]

But cant i do that better with a utah then : P

[dusky surge]

not really, dryo has better stam and better turn, perfect for catching juvis

[azure crescent]

same speed, dryo has more stam and more agile

beat me to it

[azure crescent]

utah is better at killing them, not bullying them

[obtuse ocean]

So i should complain like utahs players do with carno? Utahs can catch, and they are stronger : P

[azure crescent]

and dryos can't catch??

if anything a dryo is better at chasing than a utah

[obtuse ocean]

U saying i should go after a fully grown utah as dryo ?

i have no clue, never played dryo before

[azure crescent]

bruh

no, bully babies

dryo is better at this because it gives the babies enough time to regret their life choices

[dusky surge]

i dont understand where this argument is coming from, we aren't telling you to go on a killing spree with dryo against every animal, literally, just bully a child

[azure crescent]

meanwhile utahs just kill them, which makes sense

[grave veldt]

dryo somehow managed to get the best stuff in this update with dodge thats better, A/D controls, and no stam for dodge

[dusky surge]

its between it and teno for biggest patch winners

the knockdown nerf was a sort of nerf to teno tho

[azure crescent]

ptera too

[dusky surge]

so honestly maybe just dryo

dryo wins baby

[grave veldt]

ima go with dryo cuz it got the most amount of positive changes

[obtuse ocean]

nah i was just saying that ofcourse utah should kill me, if i cant dodge him. It just sounds like carno chasing a utah. You either dodge or die. But then its unbalanced if utah gets cought

[azure crescent]

but we're talking about bullying babies here

[obtuse ocean]

yea il try now : P even tho its like 20 utahs here

[dusky surge]

no one is talking about dryo killing adults

[versed rune]

If a Dryo kills you as an adult anything you deserve it lmaoo

[azure crescent]

adult hypsi gets 1 shot by dryo

[hexed sorrel]

@topaz panther they aren't going for a realistic spinosaurus, if they were, it would be utterly useless and no one would play it, a realistic spinosaurus couldn't do jack shit against a rex. but the ISLE's spino is like godzilla's nephew

[obtuse ocean]

hey, im no expert. But it did fight Carcharodontosaurus : P

[hexed sorrel]

carcharodontosaurus is usless compared to T rex

T rex would simply weigh too much for spinosaurus irl

and bite too hard

[short spire]

Also spino would not have fought charchar, they had vastly different food sources

[obtuse ocean]

U know they found bones that matches eachothers bites, we know they faught.

well i actually lied, it says its suggested they faugt. You can watch 2 min in here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv6hEuODrLg

[short spire]

If they did fight it would have been very rare, likely during droughts when spino would have less food

It definitely wouldn’t have been a regular thing, otherwise they couldn’t exist in the same ecosystem

[obtuse ocean]

yea i dont really know, but as they mention abit. I think it was most fights where they screamed at eachothers to show off who was strongest etc : P

[short spire]

@tidal lichen yeah I mean you probably shouldn’t be able to sustain 4 raptors on ai alone. I think that would be a bit unbalanced

[tidal lichen]

Of course not. But there should be enough food to also feed babies. I mean that was the point of the update. And we killed everything we saw. It didn’t matter if it was on our diet list or not because we would have starved otherwise. It would just be nice if it would have been affordable for us to make a nest and feed babies. To be clear, I absolutely hate mega packs. But we could have split the pack when the babies became old enough. I just feel like 4 raptors would be a perfect size for a pack.

[half girder]

4 utahs starving is strange, have you not found players?

[half girder]

even so taking on a rex without getting the jump on it, should def be in the rexes favor

[mint rain]

@warm lagoon bucking cooldown is absolutely wiiiiild. Who' idea was that

[warm lagoon]

oh god, completely exploitable and ruins the progression of utah hunts

dude its soooooooooo easy to kill stegos now

or anything for that matter

all u gotta do is have one utah pounce and get bucked off

then immediately following that, a bunch hop on and get full pounces unbucked

[mint rain]

yea by far the best utahs ever been

[warm lagoon]

its just crappy, because it makes utah so much less skillful

As a utah main I think it just detracts from the fun

Because a group of shit utahs can fuck up left and right and still destroy something with minimal losses

utah pounce is literally just mindless now

[mint rain]

I've seen a few people miss and die because of it

but thatll never happen to me lmaaaooo

[warm lagoon]

Ive seen a few as well, but its still to little

Me and a friend were fighting a pack of 8 utahs as tenos, they were all rlly shit and we did eventually kill 6 of them, but there were so many times where they missed and we weren't able to align ourselves fast enough to kill them

Lag was also a huge factor, but still

[fallen vale]

Good analysis @warm lagoon I agree and have been arguing about that when playing on the ST. Utah is the new mouth breather dinosaur

[half girder]

#balance-feedback message no.

utah is insane rn, no skill and a go-to dino

utah being on par with pachy is silly considering pachys original design was to counter utah now utah is harder to punish and doesn't get punished hard enough for repeated mistakes

[warm lagoon]

dude, as a utah main I hate it. Every fight is so easy its not fun!

Especially with that aimbot shit

[fallen vale]

I had made a video a few days before the release about it as it seems to me that impact pounce is way too easy, also you can completly miss and hit like a tail or something and be ported on the side and the recovery could use at least 0.5s more
https://youtu.be/HX3pKiAd-5o

[warm lagoon]

I know, I watched it

[fallen vale]

👍

[warm lagoon]

And after I knew that utah would no longer require skill

[fallen vale]

I think the skill capped as been dumbed down

will be much harder to shine as a Utah

[warm lagoon]

not even dumbed down, pounce skillcap isnt there

no timing required

[fallen vale]

I have yet the play the released patch but on ST most people kind of understood that if a carno or something came near you to bite you just had press right click to teleport on him

I would assume people on officials will take a bit more time to really grasp that lol

[warm lagoon]

U can literally just pounce point blank

[harsh lark]

i dont mind utah pounce being made easier because it just makes utah fall in line with the rest

[warm lagoon]

and say a teno, if you pounce in the middle of its tail it will tp you to its leg

[harsh lark]

pounce was always an outlier when carno charge had no punishment for missing, nor did teno kick or pachy headbutt

[fallen vale]

yes that's really broken

I have it on tape

[warm lagoon]

Im on Scope OG testing it now

[fallen vale]

https://clips.twitch.tv/BetterBlitheToadBCouch-L6ln74h7mMxdoLPb

[warm lagoon]

Utah just isnt fun anymore

[fallen vale]

I know I was happy they fixed the reliabiiity but it's boring as hell and everyone plays it now so mehhh

It's the new carno xD

Carno is a lot more fun now

You really have to play with the terrain

[warm lagoon]

Honestly I dont like how they made it so you can pounce point blank

I can see that for pinning

but not pouncing

[fallen vale]

Bruh lol. Carno charge is so easy to see coming / dodge

comparing apples with oranges

[warm lagoon]

And other dinosaurs do require skill, like teno and pachy

[fallen vale]

I don't think it would take much tweaking to make it better though. like a 0.5-1s on the recovery, reducing how far on the tail you can pounce and I'm not too sure regarding imapct pounce

At least impac pounce from the front should be tuned down

don't mind much from the side or back

[warm lagoon]

I agree that should be added, but when you're able to pounce point blank only a dumbass would miss

yo, poutine, would you consider yourself a good teno?

[azure hinge]

Wasn't that just desync in the animation he definitely aimed ahead of the carnos movement

[opaque beacon]

@versed rune Dont run after getting pounced if you want to live, Carno is about ambush not roaming free and running wild.

[azure hinge]

That's where he started pounce animation but then the animation just had no in between I guess because he was so close so instead if showing movement it put him on his back

[opaque beacon]

Thats why you use it for ambush 😮‍💨

[versed rune]

utah is about needing a pack if you want to kill bigger things and not cutting a carno's bloodpool in half cuz you held rmb for 5 seconds lole

[opaque beacon]

Yes I completly agree, Utahraptor needs to hunt in a pack, which it does, but if you get pounced by a Raptor ypu should not be running making it easier for the raptor to bleed you out*

I was fighting a carno earlier with three other utahs, we got 3 pounces on him and all he did was buck us off and make sure he z walks/crouch so he dosent bleed out, he healed his bleed eventually and killed all three of us

If its so hard for you to not be breserk and kill and run after everything that runs, than you deserve to die

Plus a carno player should be able to think a little more now before heading into fights as they are not Apex predators and should not be able to kill everything.

But its up to you, agree or disagree it is what it is

[placid reef]

am i the only one that feels like a pounce to the head should not work in general? like imo it should just do damage but not let you latch on

also yea that might explain why when i gave Pachy and Teno a go for the first time in a long time it kinda felt ass

[fallen vale]

I'm on the fence about that one. I think giving back a proper recovery would help a lot on that. Good players would bait & dodge to punish the frontal pouncers. The problem now is on some dinos like a Carno for example, if you do a nice move and bait it and he falls behind you he will most likely be gone by the time you turn around / stop drifting or what ever.

[placid reef]

ik from when i tried to grow a pachy and a teno for like the first time in ages the combat felt kinda awfull

[fallen vale]

Frontal pounce existed before. It's just that the impact pounce is extremely easy to pull off now, also you can somehow pounce through the tail quite deep into it and it latches and the recovery is just too fast for most situations. The current recovery works if the dude pounce 30cm away from you and you don't have more than like 25 degrees to turn. Which is not most failed pounces, especially when you take into account that you're not dealing with one utah but a bunch of them 90% of the time

[keen plover]

I don't see the issue. Utah does need a pack to kill things still. Against apex class creatures, they need a full pack. Against a carno, 3 utahs is quite equal. Probs 2 if the carno is bad enough. A solo utah ain't killing anything large with the amount of stam drain buck does.

[fallen vale]

Sounds like a big you problem. If you start a fight with 3 pounces out on a single carno with 3 utahs and he heals off AND manage to kill all 3 you either really couldn't read the terrain or really messed up... which is the same

On favourable terrain utahs can solo & especially duo carnos now

[keen plover]

Idk about solo. You can run down a utah after you buck stam

[fallen vale]

Favourable terrain

Not mid plains probably xD

like forest edge / forest

[keen plover]

Fair

Even then, forest still doesn't help a solo utah since you could just hit them off using trees.

[opaque beacon]

Listen here man, the carno actually played smart and did not let us bite him or get a pounce easy, thats how a carno should play, and he did not just heal and kill 3 of us, 2 of us were killed by him and I was the last utah on him and he managed to kill me after he healed his bleed

[fallen vale]

Hope off, obviously a good player probably not but there's generally a big skill gap in many encounters on officials lol

And good carnos are rare to come by, that's coming from a mainly teno player lol

[opaque beacon]

He was left with 30% bleed, its not a "you problem", the carno was smart and played it well

[obtuse ocean]

thats skill issue, you either dodge or you dont. Both are hard. And a solo utah should be running if its sees a carno

[keen plover]

I was arguing against solo utahs being able to hunt larger things

[keen plover]

True. Most don't adapt and don't check out the matchups much

[opaque beacon]

Thats not a thing, unless the other play is absolutely terrible at the game then yes

[fallen vale]

I didn't say that to solo a carno is easy or that it would work on an actual good carno. I said it's doable. And the duo where you can relay each others is not hard to pull off

[keen plover]

Yeah, only times I could see a utah 'solo' a carno is when its fought a teno

[fallen vale]

If you lose a 1 vs 3 against a single carno as utah AND manage to all die, it's 100% on you. gg carno

You either cut your loses or you insist and die. If you see he has really the terrain advantage or is more skilled then cut your loses

[opaque beacon]

Well yeah the point is that carno is not useless lmao

And we weren't bad Utah players if that's where you were going, if we are basing things on that then its completely unfair to even compare lol

[fallen vale]

I did't say carno was useless? I said utah as become extremely permissive and the skill cap of utah has been lowered big time. I even published this 5.0 carno video last night lol
https://youtu.be/7kHutU7XhOw

[opaque beacon]

There you go prime example that Utah is not op

[fallen vale]

But on open ground now the fight it warped in utahs favour pretty heavily, espeically given the amount of utahs. Good carnos will do alright, mediocre ones will suffer a lot and probably switch utah unless they learn to actually use terrain

[fallen vale]

Mate, the only reason I survived these fights is because I played heavily the terrain and restricted myself to some areas of the map I knew I could win fights and restrict the utah movements to almost zero margin. I'd be dead within minutes on open ground.

[opaque beacon]

And thats how it should be

[fallen vale]

The first fight is 2 vs 4 which was a risky move on their part

[fallen vale]

you think I haven't played utah? Been on 5.0 for over a month already. You can close you eyes and listen to the sound and when it sounds close enough you click right click lol

[dusky surge]

just remove that stupid bleed nerf and nerf carno's bleed output instead for a start

[fallen vale]

https://tenor.com/view/śmiech-smiech-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-parskać-gif-21092400

"skilled ability"

[fallen vale]

I disagree I think the bleed is fine

It's just too easy to pull off pounces left and right and not get punished when you miss stupidly

[opaque beacon]

Lmao why are you so mad

[fallen vale]

I'm not

[opaque beacon]

3 shots and die to a carno yeah def just right clicking for 5 seconds

[fallen vale]

https://tenor.com/view/calculating-puzzled-math-confused-confused-look-gif-14677181

[keen plover]

Agreed, quite mindless tbh. Probs be like this for a while sadly.

[opaque beacon]

Even with that done, Utah's pounce is working now and so everyone is still gonna cry cuz Utah should die to everything lol

[placid reef]

we should expect balance changes in 5.5 so maybe not

[keen plover]

idk, even with working pounce. Carno previously still would do well against utah packs. Just abuse terrain and stand still. At the very least, it would be much, much easier for carno.

[fallen vale]

You miss entirely the point. There's a difference between functional and "too permissive"

Too rapid to be punishable for being greedy / careless and too much "help" upon latching for example pouncing directly trough a carno / teno tail and being teleported to the side

if you don't see the distinction I don't know what to tell you

[placid reef]

also who knows what NV will bring to the table for balance, perhaps Teno will absolutely dome Utahs at night

[obtuse ocean]

well it should do good against utahs, sure 3+ utahs its gonna start beeing a big problem. But i dont wanne be in a pack and go like, lets kill everything cus we are more

[fallen vale]

Let's make it clear, if the day time balance is like already this and suddently herbivores can't see shit 50% of the time, there won't be herbivores loll

[placid reef]

i meant that teno might have better nv than utah lol

not otherway

[opaque beacon]

Whatever man, lets just enjoy what we have, whatever happens will happen

[fallen vale]

I'd be surprised if this was the case

[fallen vale]

Kind of not the point of #balance-feedback-discussion

[placid reef]

but i do expect Utah to be the balance point for NV, the middle ground, fits with everything else in its design

[opaque beacon]

No it's because I have said what I have said a billion times and then I have to explain it to another person

[fallen vale]

yes yes we got it, utah fairly balanced

That's why everyone picks it

[keen plover]

I mean, that's the whole point of groups. Multiple creatures will likely beat solo creatures. Carno also has the option to run away so

[opaque beacon]

Lol

[keen plover]

I have no issues if utahs beat carnos, I only have issues in the way it's done. I don't see why missing pounces shouldn't be a punishment. The timer should be longer, but not update 4.5 long.

[placid reef]

was that when pounce lasted like 5 sec?

[fallen vale]

How fast exactly was it in 4.5 2.5-3s?

[dusky surge]

i dont see that happening because it really doesnt make much sense

[opaque beacon]

Yeah I agree

[keen plover]

iirc, like 3 seconds?

[obtuse ocean]

Yea sure, but carno is not a utah. Its stronger. So 1v1 is not gonna be fair for the utah. And to take sometthing bigger down require skills and not just numbers.

[dusky surge]

honestly i still want dryo and deino to be the two best NV users on the current roster

[keen plover]

Someone would need to fact check it.

[fallen vale]

I'm pretty sure 2s would give a sweet spot where you definately get punished if you fail next to your target but if you're too far away you'll probably get away with it

[placid reef]

fair but we wont know for sure untill then so we shall see

[opaque beacon]

Utah is a pack hunter

[obtuse ocean]

yea we know that, but just cus your a pack. Its still gonna be hard taking down bigger stuff.

[keen plover]

Well yeah, it's still hard. Actually, not right now *

[placid reef]

if a utah pack can take down lage stuff without coordination then its a problem

[opaque beacon]

People please understand that carno is not an apex predator, It is not the hardest thing to kill in the game

If it were stego or deino that is being bodied like this than yes thats a problem

[placid reef]

i didnt mention what large is, rn the only large thing utahs would actually fight is stego but stego just counters all of utah so...

[fallen vale]

Also I don't know if you noticed but the carno bite has become very unreliable. Like If I nail down someone with a charge like a utah, unless I alt-click there's good chance I won't even hit him on top of it with a normal bite

[keen plover]

Primary Attack: Bite
Attack hitbox lowered slightly.

[opaque beacon]

All you have to do is just be good enough to hit 3 shots to the body to the Utah before dying

[fallen vale]

I know they nerfed the cast distance on regular bites which I think was necessary but sometimes you can really see that it just passes over what ever you're doing

[keen plover]

So yeah, that was changed

[fallen vale]

Seems like a lot. Before it was kind of too permissive but now it's just unreliable

I have the same feeling the the teno kick had before 5.0 where like... 30% of your kicks would be through the 3D model and not register

now it's the new carno bite

[carmine patrol]

I think utah is fine stat wise, the problem is that it's nonpunishable with that 1 second pounce recovery time :/

[opaque beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-brain-cells-unlock-your-brain-gif-14425366

Someone being reasonable lol

[half girder]

yes.

i find hitting utahs easy tbh, though my misses do look like i’m hitting i guess it’s just desync

but most of the time i land hits so 🤷‍♂️

[carmine patrol]

How much ping do you have?

[half girder]

i sit around 110-120 sometimes 130

[carmine patrol]

hmm, that's ok
I have 160-180 ping on EU
much harder for me to land my hits

[half girder]

played for about 5hrs yesterday

i gotta say the gameplay was awful lol

[carmine patrol]

the performance is worse?

[half girder]

yea.

[carmine patrol]

damn

[half girder]

i hit things on my screen but they keep going, it’s a lot less but man

i just want a smooth 60fps at least 100ms experience

i’m very scared of them expanding the map and player count

[carmine patrol]

60?
with the isle consider yourself lucky if you get a smooth 40 fps lol

[half girder]

i was dropping to 5fps

the ping tends to reach 300 too

on NA..

[carmine patrol]

[half girder]

they better go small or that’s another 10yrs of dev, kool that they’ve dedicated almost a decade to the game tho

[carmine patrol]

that's my ping on Na servers

[half girder]

bless u dude

never say ur bad just blame the server

[carmine patrol]

Lmao

[half girder]

and it’s not coping if it’s true

[carmine patrol]

I do good on EU servers, but on NA servers, I see a carno 50 meters away and the next second it's here

[half girder]

i’ve had more fun on unofficial, servers seem more stable

last time i played on NA 1 as dryo a carno hit me from maybe 10 feet away at 140ms

[carmine patrol]

no one plays on them tho

[half girder]

they do

i play on one atm

was 100 people in

ran better than official lol

[carmine patrol]

yeah, prob bc of the update, next month I doubt anyone would be on

[half girder]

oh yeah for sure they’ll go back to legacy

skill isn’t thier mojo so

can’t blame ‘em

[carmine patrol]

I hope they stay, evrima has all legacy stuff but better

[half girder]

ehhhh

[carmine patrol]

we have one problem tho...

Performance

[half girder]

i mean that and the dinosaurs

no new playable for a year 😵‍💫

[carmine patrol]

almost forgot about that

but I think the unique play styles kinda makes up for the lack of playables

[half girder]

i mean kind of

i don’t really like the balance this update

[carmine patrol]

why?
Can't be worse than the last one

[half girder]

very true

but idk i prefer some things from last patch

always playing in a big group to have fun on certain dinos sure sucks

[carmine patrol]

you talking about utah?

[half girder]

utah teno pachy

actually no not utah

it’s pretty op atm

recovery i mean but

[carmine patrol]

Idk about teno, I always play it solo and I find it more fun than playing in a group

[half girder]

maybe i’m just not used to shit being balanced

some stuff bothers me but i think about it and then i think of balance

[carmine patrol]

didn't they nerf pounce stamina to force you into playing in a group?

[half girder]

no really forcing

more to balance out utah

pounce is insane.

a utah can solo teno and carno if good enough

[carmine patrol]

it's always been that way. With teno atleast

[half girder]

yeah

but it’s easier now that pounce works

[carmine patrol]

true

[half girder]

i think the scariest thing in this game is just the fluidness being terrible along with the rest of the issues im sure u know of

[carmine patrol]

it's kinda annoying that as a teno/pachy you need the utah to make a mistake to do anything, and now that they removed that it's almost impossible to win against an above average utah

[half girder]

pachy is just..

idk

i hate myself for saying this but i’d take the 4.5 pachy over this one

i begged for the turning to be better but man, pachy gets wiped across the floor now lol

i killed 4 pachy a with my fren and we both tanked em and fought with body fracture

[carmine patrol]

pachy is in an terrible spot rn

[half girder]

the dmg should not be 100, utahs alt bite is just 30 dmg less and it’s silly

[carmine patrol]

4 rams to kill a utah is insane

[half girder]

it’s 5

[carmine patrol]

oof

[half girder]

should be 4 minimum

legacy pachy is better

i think it 3 shot utah

[carmine patrol]

that's balanced

[half girder]

which i mean

if it were actually it’s counter….

[carmine patrol]

punch said that pachy would destroy utah, yet here we are with utah able to 1v2 pachys

[half girder]

125 dmg i feel is perfect.

[carmine patrol]

yes

[half girder]

mhm

it’s more cute then it is scary now

before it was cute and hella scary now it’s just cute

[carmine patrol]

that'd be good, 4 shots to kill a utah, 3 if you land a headshot

[half girder]

2

it would be 2

oh wait no

2 would leave it at 1hp

which i mean lol.. use m1

peck it dead!!

[carmine patrol]

still good, even if you don't kill the raptor it'd leave you alone with such low health

[half girder]

mhm

it’ll be a counter to utah again

wish i could see insane pachy players vs utah players and just see who wins

3v3

[carmine patrol]

if it's good pachy's vs good utahs I'd bet on the utahs

nvm, after thinking about it I think pachys win

[half girder]

if only we could see that, hope we get to someday

[carmine patrol]

aren't you, Kav, and eyepatch good pachys?
Fight nappn, poutine and someone

[half girder]

im not good

[carmine patrol]

???

[half girder]

kav has been away

so he’s prob rusty

[carmine patrol]

yea Ik

[half girder]

eyepatch is insane tho

i know of another player too

[carmine patrol]

good, eypatch, Kav and the player you know against nappn, poutine and someone Ik

[half girder]

i’ll see to arrange that but it’ll be hard

[carmine patrol]

I need to see that happen

[half girder]

i’ll talk with kav about it

[carmine patrol]

I like how we turned the balance feedback channel into talking about random Isle things channel

[half girder]

i’ve done quick math

currently it’s 15 or 16 hits to kill carno as pachy with it being body fractured

with 125 it’ll take around 12 or 13 do u think that’s fair?

[carmine patrol]

how many hits can a pachy do with full stam?

[half girder]

uhhhhh

id have to ask i never counted it

scratch 125, 120 is good enough

[rapid flicker]

Finally got to play yesterday, when it comes to fighting, pachy can’t do shit

[half girder]

ah a pachy main

what do u feel needs changed

[rapid flicker]

I haven’t played enough

Just got into 1 fight with a carno

It seemed pretty immortal

[half girder]

with how many pachys?

[rapid flicker]

3 pachy vs 2 carnos

[half girder]

ok that’s fine

makes sense

[rapid flicker]

Is it really 16 hits now?

[half girder]

it’s 15 or 16

take into account body fracture lowers carnos hp

if not it would be 18 lol

[rapid flicker]

Yeah, great….

What have they done

To my baby

[half girder]

balance.

i hate to sound like a pachy fanboy but man did it get hit hard

[rapid flicker]

I mean the Utah needing 4 hits would be fine, if it didn’t kill you in 2 pounces

[half girder]

just don’t get pounced

out skill the server

[opaque beacon]

damn pachy did get hit pretty hard...

[half girder]

sarcasm?

[opaque beacon]

No I mean 18 hits to kill a carno wtf

[half girder]

not 18.

[opaque beacon]

?

[carmine patrol]

You mean 1 pounce and 2 bites

[opaque beacon]

I might of miss read than

[rapid flicker]

Pachy needs more skins tho, you have no options whatsoever. All colors are green/grey/white

[half girder]

depends if u hit the body fracture

u gotta play smarter now

[opaque beacon]

So like 16 hits?

[half girder]

could be 16 17 or 18

[rapid flicker]

😖

[opaque beacon]

Still pretty bad, we are talking about the headbutt hits correct?

[half girder]

more likely 17

yes ofc

alt bite would take maybe 30+

[opaque beacon]

7-8 should kill a carno tbh

[half girder]

naw

12 or 13

[rapid flicker]

So what I try to figure out here… why nerf it in the first place… what did it do to deserve this nerf

[half girder]

pachy in groups would be op again

[opaque beacon]

I mean a pachy used to be able to 1v1 a carno which is kind of dumb to be honest

[rapid flicker]

That might be a bit too much. 10 hits is prefect imo. Especially since you have more stamina now

[half girder]

turning and it shouldn’t be killing shit

or just it shouldn’t be killing

more hit and run

[opaque beacon]

I dont play pachy much so I guess that makes more sense

[carmine patrol]

Nah, 12-14is good enough

[somber sphinx]

Pachy should be able to brawl against things it’s size and a little bigger like Utah and dilo but if something like a carno shows up it should break it’s legs and run away

[opaque beacon]

I disagree Bran, Pachy needs to be able to defend itself, if it breaks the leg I feel it should eliminate all danger and just kill the carni

[half girder]

boom

[opaque beacon]

Yepp

[rapid flicker]

Broken leg carno is still a threat

[half girder]

dude i was just saying what everyone says lol

hit and run

[rapid flicker]

Only way to get rid of a carnivor is to kill it

[carmine patrol]

Lol

[opaque beacon]

Lol true

[half girder]

yes let me break this guy, run, let it heal then come for me again

people need to understand it’s a human behind the dino

[rapid flicker]

+1

[opaque beacon]

EXACTLY

[half girder]

the game would be so ass if something as big as pachy can’t do shit to some mid tiers

it’s what killed it in legacy, it was rendered useless

[opaque beacon]

What would Cera's bite force be?

[rapid flicker]

Its becoming more and more like legacy now

[half girder]

cera bite force?

[opaque beacon]

Yeah

[carmine patrol]

The break and run would be fine if carno couldn't run at 30plus kph with a broken leg

[half girder]

2 shot utah 3 shot pachy

225 bite force

[opaque beacon]

So like 200-250

I feel like it would do alot of bleed too

[carmine patrol]

225 would be good enough for cera

[half girder]

cera should be something u don’t just run at

[opaque beacon]

I think a pack of 6-8 should be able to take on one

[half girder]

of what?

[opaque beacon]

Utahs*

[half girder]

oh ok

[carmine patrol]

I see cera having a terrible match up against teno

[half girder]

i see 4 pachys shitting on 1

[opaque beacon]

Yeah because its slow

[carmine patrol]

And light weight

[opaque beacon]

Oh yeah true

[rapid flicker]

What would be nice speed for it?

[half girder]

cera will have to get the jump on teno.

[rapid flicker]

36?

[opaque beacon]

Imagine Cera getting knocked down by the slam 💀

[half girder]

speed 40

[somber sphinx]

Funny thing is that a pachy can knock down a cera🙂

[carmine patrol]

No more than 42

[half girder]

hp 1500

[opaque beacon]

Hell nah

Ceras speed should be 35-40

MAX

[carmine patrol]

Yep, poor guy gonna get destroyed by carno if it lands a charge

[rapid flicker]

Pachy is 41.8

[half girder]

read it wrong lol

[opaque beacon]

Cera I feel is a medium speed type dino

[half girder]

it should be nearly as fast as teno

[opaque beacon]

yeah

[half girder]

like really close

[placid reef]

well teno is 39 iirc

fastest quadruped

[carmine patrol]

Teno is 40.5

[opaque beacon]

Whats carnos HP?

[half girder]

it’s 40

1800

[placid reef]

ah, close enough

[opaque beacon]

You think Cera should have less HP?

[carmine patrol]

Teno 1600kg

[placid reef]

cera max 1.3k

[half girder]

yes tf

it’s not that big dude lol

[placid reef]

but cera is also way more agile than carno, better swimmer too

[half girder]

shit should be 1200 realistically

[opaque beacon]

True

[half girder]

but 1500 is perfecto

[placid reef]

thats too much

[half girder]

1300

[opaque beacon]

yeah 15k cera and 18k carno

[placid reef]

1.3k is the max it should be

[carmine patrol]

gonna get shit on by carno and teno

[half girder]

i mean

[opaque beacon]

thats going to be a close matchup considering the bite firce

[placid reef]

if a cera goes to fight a carno in fields... 💀

[opaque beacon]

force*

[placid reef]

and teno is more fair sligtly in tenos favour every time

[half girder]

if a carno ambushes it sure

head on though..

[opaque beacon]

1.8 and 1.5*

[placid reef]

if a carno has a bone to pick with cera in a jungle it deserves to get fucked

[half girder]

carno will get rotted and can’t run

[opaque beacon]

Who would win in a tank 1v1?

[half girder]

cera

[carmine patrol]

Carno

[placid reef]

carno

[half girder]

it’s alt bite will do even more

[placid reef]

almost 50% more health

and good damage

[opaque beacon]

But the dammege would be like 225

[half girder]

plus ability

225 plus alt bite dmg

which adds like 15 more dmg

[opaque beacon]

Well like just straight biting eqchother

[half girder]

alt bite will be much faster than carnos too

[opaque beacon]

True

[half girder]

cuz carnos is meant to be an attack after a ambush

why it leans down so far

[opaque beacon]

What about allo 👀

[half girder]

pfffffft

[carmine patrol]

If the devs give cera 1.3k health I can't see it winning a tank against carno even if it has 250N alt bite

[placid reef]

[opaque beacon]

stats?

[placid reef]

allo is ~3k dude