balance-feedback-discussion

[supple basin]

Utah is in a week spot en can only be very dangerous toward dryos and hypsi. A good utah thought can play with the bleed on group but I don't think this animal need a nerf rn

[thin mantle]

The only animal Utah can’t solo rn is deino due to water. It’s one of the most powerful animals in game due it’s insane bleed damage and is only held back by bugs related to pounce and Carno’s busted hotboxes. You’re reading the word nerf but not reading about what that is a nerf to, which is it’s tracking, which has nothing to do with its combat balance.

[native bridge]

I think that herbies should be more careful on being spotted rather than hanging around like in a beach party call spamming right and left. then complaining of being tracked

when I play Hypsi or Dryo I often fall bored and start looking for predators hoping they will chase me

[golden coral]

I.. don't think that's what people have as an issue with how the tracking system works... no matter if people do that or not, it does not make the tracking system we have better or worse, for other reasons..

[native bridge]

rarely they get me strategically using bushes and forests even though my tracks

[thin mantle]

Then they’re terrible players, tracking is a borderline gps

[native bridge]

utahs at the moment can be easily killed by almost everything, but hipsi and dryos

as soon herbies stay in a herd is impossible for utahs not losing players in their pack and still killing nothing

sorry my english

[thin mantle]

Good, Utah is a glass cannon, it dishes out the most bleed damage in game by far and can solo everything aside from deino if you’re a good enough player. It’s only drawback is it’s low hp, if that’s not a counterbalance you’re a fan of I’d suggest maining other animals.

But anyway, what does this have to do with tracking? Once a herbi is in a herd tracking is irrelevant, they’re pretty obvious.

[thin mantle]

Btw your English is incredibly legible, don’t worry you’re understood just fine

[native bridge]

with tracking I can kill (being a utah's fanboy) a solo herbie. nerfing tracking this become nearly impossible.

[keen plover]

I mean, if you already have pounces on a solo herbi as a Utah, I doubt they would want to move around much

Unless this is stego

[thin mantle]

Well… I can’t imagine why tracking would even be relevant with hunting herbis as a Utah. Land 1 bite and follow the bleed. Plus heavy bleed makes moving a very poor decision, few would take it if attacked by a Utah since most know that a single mistake can end a Utah, so that’s what they count on.

[golden coral]

Well, tracking, vs fighting and killing something is not quite the same.. and current tracking is just dumb, no matter what playable you are

[native bridge]

how can I pounce them if I can't see them in the middle of the Jungle? I often tried to kill tenontos, they have so much blood that simply can invest it byrunning in the most unthinkable places of the jungle and lose them. It is tough to kill them also as a pack.

[thin mantle]

Tracking wouldn’t help you aim your pounce, it doesn’t give you any idea of the exact position or orientation of that animal and pouncing based upon the footprints you see is a bad move. If the prey item has reached a location that you don’t think is a viable place to attempt pursuit or continue to hunt then that’s simply a failed hunt. Carnis irl or otherwise have many of those, killing other players is supposed to be quite hard to do

[thin mantle]

Based Erik

[native bridge]

the isle is so huge if at least the entire map would be used by players, then tracking system is the only way to find a prey. it is just the start of hunt.

[golden coral]

Well, you're not quite supposed to solo a teno, 2-3 utahs is a better chance at that I think. And that still does not excuse being able to track them as easily as it is right now.

And really, a teno that doesn't use the water to escape.. I wish they'd swim more often :p

[thin mantle]

Or you can spot them, learn where hotspots are, learn where teno diet locations are, etc

[thin mantle]

Tbf no teno should be running for its life from 2 utahs

[native bridge]

oh I met them, smart players using everything to survive 😄

[thin mantle]

If you can also learn the things that they know, I think the whole process will become a whole lot easier and you won’t even need tracking nearly as much as you do now

[native bridge]

imagine a wolf without being able to track its prey...

[golden coral]

I.. don't think anyone said remove tracking

Just, maybe change it to more like old legacy rather than the current, just broken tracking

[dusky surge]

I love the sheer extreme here

"The tracking is too strong"
"Can't believe you want to remove tracking"

[golden coral]

That's just how Islecord does it! :p

[native bridge]

I have just nothing to do and I am having fun here

[tall bronze]

Very late to the convo, but I agree scent should keep the "seeing" scented stuff through obstacles thing in order to actually feel like you're using your sense of smell and not just "sight but worse".

But I also agree current scent (specifically with tracking) is way too good and needs to have varying accuracy/effectiveness. So like Utah for example could scent prints more accurately, whereas something like Carno would not only just have poor range and such, but the accuracy would basically be "okay....something walked in this general area.....probably"

[mild basin]

Bruh wasnt there a 10 second timer that prevents u from getting stunned from a pachy hit?

So u dont get stun locked?

[hasty coyote]

yes, its still in too

[mild basin]

Jesus christ man

U mean "it soposed to be" its inconsistent af

[hasty coyote]

it gives carnos 10 seconds to just do whatever they want after they tank a hit from a solo pachy

[half girder]

still think it should be slightly lowered

making pachy groups terrifying

[mild basin]

They are already, getting fracture from tap headbutt is enough of a buff id say

[hasty coyote]

personally, i think they should just keep it stun immunity, but not break immunity. because it seems to block break damage too

[half girder]

tap charge shouldn’t be a thing

[hasty coyote]

i dont think the tap was intentional, and i want it gone too

[half girder]

like fracturing

it should just do dmg

depending on the creature size

[mild basin]

Also the pachy self mini stun after headbutt is inconsistent af

[half girder]

smalls it’ll still fracture ofc

[hasty coyote]

it should do fracture to stuff like utah, but it shouldnt fracture or even stun the carno

[half girder]

i’m fine with not getting stunned, i hit my headbutt i don’t deserve a bite

but tap is just broken rn

[mild basin]

If u hit a fully charged headvutt u should get a mini stun, not when only tapping rmb, and again, tap headbutt shouldnt fracture a teno hit on the half of its tail bruh, also teno gets stunned 3 sec while the pachy just glides around

Remove charging mechanic or remove headbutt tap or fix the damn thing make it work properly

[half girder]

they’re fine, just shouldn’t be fracturing

tap i mean

[mild basin]

Everyone would agree on third option

[half girder]

yeah they will

[hasty coyote]

everyone just wants the tap to not fracture bigger things, and honestly i think its a bug

[half girder]

want to know another kool fact

[hasty coyote]

or unintended at least

[half girder]

pachy actually becomes immune to a carno charge when standing up

[mild basin]

[hasty coyote]

how so? you mean it doesnt get knocked down?

[half girder]

no lol

[mild basin]

That AND it dosent get damaged

[half girder]

u stun the carno and can get a leg fracture

same for pachy lol

[hasty coyote]

do you mean when they trade with the ram+charge interaction. or is this a completely different one?

[half girder]

no

no trading

the pachy and carno doesn’t take anything but the carno gets stunned for a bit allowing the pachy to move to the side and leg fracture

the pachy is immune

[mild basin]

Carno charging at pachy-pachy stands there waiting for carno to get close-carno comes closer and closer while charging, pachy holds RMB to charge headbutt-carno collides with pachy, carno gets stunned, pachy unharmed

[half girder]

if you headbutt right after doing it you’ll get fractured tho

yes

[hasty coyote]

oooooooh, well then, time to test that out

[half girder]

have fun lol

[mild basin]

Works from all angles

[half girder]

doesn’t work for pounce or teno

[hasty coyote]

man, im gonna be called a hacker lmao

[half girder]

lmao

[mild basin]

Ye, i thinks thats because carno has a special hitbox while charging

His whole body becomes a different hitbox

Bcuz if u headbutt a charging carno from the side u get body break as a pachy, u dont have to headbutt it head on

[half girder]

i mean yeah

[mild basin]

Also pachys hitbox properties also change whike u hold RMB

[hasty coyote]

i believe it could be a mix between the trading interaction and the joust mechanic. I think if a pachy rams another pachy that is charging but hasnt rammed, it cancels the damage as if they hit each other, but i havent tested it too much.

[mild basin]

Thats what the parry mechanic is based on i think

[hasty coyote]

yeah it seems like a funky interaction between funky hitboxes

[mild basin]

Ye

[hasty coyote]

welp, im gonna test that before using it in practice lol.

[mild basin]

Have fun

I sure did not

[dusky surge]

"Thats the Reason why i dont want Herbivores be able to 1 v 1 a Carnivore if its bigger or the same Size. Most Herbivores live in Herds and are only strong together but if everybody wants every Herbivore to be able to 1 v 1 every Carnivore its getting Impossible for Carnivores to even get one out of the Herd. Herbis should be weaker then some Carnivores and should always look for a Group or a Herd to survive or have better Chances to survive. And for Herd Herbivores it should always be a Death sentence if they are alone against a Bigger Carnivore or Multiple smaller ones"

TL;DR:
"Eat grass and die"

[mental roost]

Oh god, this again with the herd bullshit and ignoring the power of solitary herbivores, or not caring about actually having fun as herbivores.

[dusky surge]

yep

[mental roost]

Pain just pain.

[dusky surge]

AI, corpses from other battles, skill, smart hunting strategies, nah

Carnis > herbis

Herbivores = food

[mental roost]

Solo play should in my opinion, always be viable to some capacity. If Herbivores have to be in herds to be viable, then carnivores should fail 50-70% of their hunts, and suffer severe injury more frequently, which would be straight up AWFUL to play.

Eat grass and die is not a fun, or engaging system to balance around, especially when you have brawlers who are built to fight back(not like Pachy can outrun Carno anyway).

[dusky surge]

i really like how feedback so easily tells you who does and doesn't play herbivores

people HATE the idea of picking a carnivore and not getting the epic cool hunt where they kill the helpless herbivore

[mental roost]

Reminds me back when carnivores being the only playables and herbivores as AI was being tossed around.

Might've just been a rumor though, but it really reminds me of that.

[dusky surge]

carni mains seething at the diablo concept art

i say this as someone who prefers carnivore but gives both a try

[mental roost]

Ideally, both sides should be fun to play, and offer variety(with maybe some stuff to push for herbivores, as most players are going to be biased to carnivores anyhow due to their popularity... which usually isn't a stable ecosystem but this is a video game.)

[minor zealot]

"herbivores live in herds" yea and dont carnivores stay in packs? i mean its not like there is the issue of 10+ carno packs running around at times

[dusky surge]

no thats not real shut up

[minor zealot]

lmao

idk why ppl want herbis to be weak

[mental roost]

Remember. Herbivores should eat grass and die.

[dusky surge]

eat grass and die

[minor zealot]

yes master

time to become a cow

[mental roost]

"I'm angry that my T.Rex died in a fight against a Triceratops because it wasn't in a herd and still killed me."

[dusky surge]

pls balance game devs i facetanked a trike as rex and died

[mental roost]

"T.Rex should be able to bite a Triceratop's horns and break it so that the Triceratops can't fight back anymore."
-I don't want to know if that's an actual suggestion made at some point

Don't tell me the truth

[slim dragon]

It's been made
Several times iirc

Also there was someone who said once that utah should be able to one-shot anything up to the size of a para when pouncing its neck

Carno holding stego's tail in its mouth so it can no longer swing, whike another carno kills the helpless herbi

[mental roost]

Why did you tell me.

Faith in humanity damage taken:-19 points

[slim dragon]

Herbis being unable to deal damage to carnis until they took damage themselves, to prevent KOSing

I've seen some shit

[mental roost]

Pretty sure I saw that one awhile back myself, rip.

450 kg Dromaeosaurid wannabe one shots 4.6-11 ton hadrosaur

[slim dragon]

They do in JWE :D
The most realistic dinosaur experience ever

[rapid flicker]

Why should herbivors not be viable in 1v1 ? Herbivors can group BUT so can carnivors! Makes no sense. On top of that, whenever i log in and 1 call to find any other herb response, I have a higher chance of finding a carnivor these days and I'm basically ringing a dinner bell.

After reading back the chat a bit, I see we are all in the same direction on this one 🙂

[obtuse ocean]

Ofcourse herbis should 1v1, especially if the carni is faster. I dont wanne play rex and say oh look a trike alone, free food.

[alpine plover]

Why? I think is the best, like how a teno can win 1vs1 to carno most of the times

[dusky surge]

holy shit

context clues please

please read them

[slim dragon]

Now I get why you're not QA anymore
You're too much carnivore-biased

[alpine plover]

U said said herbis shouldn't win 1vs1 against carnivores of the same size or bigger, I need no context

[dusky surge]

oh my fucking god

someone else tell him, or just wait for him to figure it out himself

[slim dragon]

This channel is called "balance feedback discussion"
This is the only clue I'm gonna give

[keen plover]

Dinofan is a hero

[half girder]

when tap charge is removed solo pachy will be more annoying than scary, gonna miss it tbh

[alpine plover]

I can't see thro all the sarcasm of the comment

Not yours bran

[alpine plover]

Yes and?

[half girder]

i'm actually able to maintain stam to some degree while in a 1v1

really hard to land a headbutt everytime

[slim dragon]

And nothing else, you'll have to figure out yourself why mr cerato is so pissed using only this one hint

[half girder]

ping, fps, visual bugs, the game is so rng rn lol

[keen plover]

What ping do you get

[dusky surge]

i dont think he's ever going to figure it out

[half girder]

160

on NA like wtf

[alpine plover]

So what you mean is he was quoting the carni cryers of balance feedback?

[keen plover]

Ok well makes sense you’re not landing hits accurately wtf

[half girder]

sometimes its 120 tho

[keen plover]

I play on NA and get 200-300 ping. So I never play pachy on officials

[dusky surge]

dinofan, i put the message in quotation marks, why do you think i did that

[alpine plover]

Yeah

I got it

[half girder]

holy shit lmaooo

[keen plover]

AU servers are dead

[half girder]

sadness

[dusky surge]

Agony

[keen plover]

Will AU ever live

[alpine plover]

When we get minmi

[keen plover]

Minmi

[alpine plover]

With minmi patriotism will fix au servers

[keen plover]

I can probs see AU servers boom when the games near completion mechanically and takes over legacy

[keen plover]

I hope something does it

[half girder]

do you guys think pachy should take longer to grow then utah?

[alpine plover]

It does

[half girder]

does it really?

[alpine plover]

Pachy is 500kg utah is 450kg, also pachy can't get full diet untill 50% because it can't knock down coconut trees

[dusky surge]

yes it can, coconuts fall down naturally

[keen plover]

Just the way carni diets currently are, utah is both an easier and shorter grow

[half girder]

some say it should take longer even with 3 diets cuz its way more powerful than utah

[keen plover]

It should take longer, but not by too much imo

[half girder]

its 1:15 rn like utah right

[keen plover]

75min yeah

[half girder]

so

how much longer would you make it

[keen plover]

80-85min (might be that now?) but even so, current pachy grows longer anyway so it's fine

Current pachy feels like a 90 min + grow

[half girder]

im fine with 10 more minutes

[alpine plover]

Last time I played pachy, coconut fell every 3 years

[half girder]

lmao true

either that or hope an adult hit one down

[native bridge]

maybe it is late to enter the discussion, but as carnies player fun biased, I consider 1vs1 against herbies for a carnivore has to be tough. where is the fun if not? but I think that a deino should be able to grab the head of a stego and drown it. because this is what every players have to risk everytime the need to drink.

[half girder]

love hitting a headbutt only to allow a carno to spin in a circle and turn fast

[turbid needle]

The Pachy is not easy to play, it requires skill. Carno doesn't ask for it, he's so easy to play. I think the Pachy doesn't deserve any nerfs, it's been nerfed enough already.

[half girder]

dont think you understand

im saying when you headbutt a carno it bugs the carno out and allows it to moonwalk, run faster and turn quick

[turbid needle]

I agree on this point of view, we are on the Deino which has the Stego diet but it is impossible to hunt an adult alone or in pairs. Moreover the contacts that I had with Stego being Deino, it is that they are masters of the rivers whereas it is supposed to be the Deino. The Croc ends up in a weak position if a Stego approaches water and it's ridiculous

[half girder]

its gonna get fixed cuz we have footage but damn

[keen plover]

I don't think a stego should be drowned by a deino, A 5 hour investment which is harder for stego compared to easy game deino is an unfair difference

[turbid needle]

I was talking about @Crash. suggestion!

[half girder]

sorry!

[turbid needle]

Np! Its all good

[dusky surge]

stego shouldn't be ez stomped by deino

its fine how it is

[half girder]

deino is so so sooo much easier to grow

so its fine imo

[turbid needle]

Agree also from this point of view, but in this case, it would be necessary to balance the forces so that the Stego is not the master when it is at the river. We too often see the Stego crossing the water knowing that there are Croc without caring about it or even Stego who put their tail in the water to kill the Deino, it's not normal, they should "logically" to be afraid.

Balance the forces.
Remove Stego from the Deino diet.
Give the Stego something to be afraid of water.
Charge Bite to do a lot of damage.

It's just ideas.

[keen plover]

I get the idea, but the precedent of deino being able to make stegos fear water would mean any other playable should

Like at what size is the cutoff

and what's the counterplay

[native bridge]

well they may decrease the time spent of growing a stego if this is the problem. but everybody must die against an ambush croc. otherwise there is no mean to play croc.

atm stegos are the carnivores as I see

I believe that many apexes fun player turned out to play stegos on Evrima 😄

[keen plover]

Nah, deino should not have this chokehold on all the large playables. I actually dislike how it can even drown carnos and tenos- yet I accept it due to how easy it is to move around as them to get easy water

[golden coral]

Eh.. I think that's a bit extreme.. you mean everything? Like.. trike.. rex.. brachi?.. I mean, sure we can decrease stego growth, but I don't think that'll match up with the other apexes then, so not sure on that one. You know spino will probably shit on deino in water as well, as might cheirus for all we know. You're not the be all end all, you have your own limitations on your capabilities.

[native bridge]

well we do not have rexes, trikes, brachi yet

[keen plover]

If you lower stego growth, everyone plays as one

well not everyone, but you'd see a shit ton more

It's fine as is. Deino barely starves anyway, so who cares?

[native bridge]

no I would see playing croc become funnier again

the evrima maps is huge, it will allow herbies to move more in the maps rather than stuck on NW

stego is not a trike, it has the head as a weak point, so an ambush croc, at least in the future when there will be more herbies, has to be more dangerous for stegos. I am not talking for trikes that probably the head won't be the weak point.

[golden coral]

True but the main point was more so, that there'll still be critters you can't hunt and that will chase you down into the water, maybe you can just accept that for now, stego is one of them and treat it that way?

[native bridge]

I accept that now we have what we have. but the game is in development

[hasty coyote]

To me, deino is like the carno of the water: absolutely bodies anything smaller than itself, but struggles against things larger. Deino is already a major threat to literally everything in the game except an adult stego. An adult stego is a major threat as well, but stegos are not ambush predators who camp an area where everyone has to go to eventually. If we nerf stegos, then deinos get free reign on the land and future large carnivores will murder stegos. If we buff deino, then it will be a problem for even large dinos. I can tell you right now, people are going to hate losing 5+ hours of progress because they drank in the wrong spot.

[rapid flicker]

I have 30 min with nothing to do. pls start some discussions i can throw myself into

[wise sparrow]

Deino and stego should be removed.
Go off

[rapid flicker]

@hasty coyote Point A: I agree the 10 seconds of immunity should be fixed. Make it like 2- 3 seconds. I mean if a carno is dumb enough to be mass rammed by a herd of pachy's he deserves to break every bone in his body

[rapid flicker]

Removed or fixing. Those 2 animals are just way to big for the roster that we have now. They were gonna put in dinosaurs from small to big, in that order, but those 2 are apexes and dont belong with the current roster of small creatures. If im completely honest I dont even think carno should be here either.

Deino is limited to water so that makes it somewhat okay for it to be here

[wise sparrow]

The only reason deino doesn't waltz onto land is because stego exists.
If stego gets nerfed, deino has to get nerfed.
If stego gets removed, deino has to get removed

[rapid flicker]

Good point. But if stego gets nerfed carno needs a nerf too. since thats the only herbivor stopping the carno from going full server wipe

@hasty coyote Point B: What exactly do you mean with "holding a ram would reduce the dmg" ? If you mean the longer you hold ram the lesser the dmg it does then I would disagree. Holding should always increase the dmg else whats the point of holding it?

@fast violet don't get me wrong I feel pachy is under powered, but something almost 3x smaller than myself that can knock me down is just ridiculous.... why not tell me I (6ft1 210lb) can be knocked down by my 70lb Niece...... Pachy needs a buff but this is silly.
I mean, if my 35kg rottweiler comes jumping at me full speed without me bracing myself, I fall down aswell. so.....

[slim dragon]

If you're comparing yourself to a carno, you should rather compare pachy to a hammer
Like a 10 kg hammer
Even if it's much lighter than you, if you get bonked in the head, you're gonna fall down hard (and probably never get up)

[rapid flicker]

Exactly! If someone takes a 10kg sledgehammer and busts my kneecaps I dont just fall down. I'll never stand up again.

[wise sparrow]

Our pachy ramming something is literally like getting hit with a whole ass cannon ball. Even if its lighter than a person, it still fucking hurts

Size isn't the end all be all of any fight

[wise sparrow]

People dont bat an eye when utah kills shit like stego or teno

[mental roost]

"B-But Herbivores shouldn't be able to defend themselves unless in a herd!"

[slim dragon]

Velociraptor soloes stego easily in JW... so imagine a predator that is 20x the weight of velo
It makes perfect sense

[hasty coyote]

If I’m correct, there’s a sweet spot where you can time a charged ram for maximum damage. So holding a ram for a while will be a bit less damage than a well timed ram. However, if I’m wrong about that sweet spot then oh well, doesn’t change my argument much.

[hasty coyote]

And personally, I do agree that the carno should be punished, but without the immunity from multiple pachies, a single ram could cause a leg break, which is death if there are 3+ pachies. Then the carno mains cry and pachy gets nerfed again.

That’s why I emphasize that the immunity should be shorter for a single pachy, but not a horde.

[wise sparrow]

Ah yes what an oversight on my part. If it happened in JP obviously its gonna happen in the isle

(And the saddest part is that's kinda true)

[slim dragon]

Please don't mistake JP with JW tho, they're not the same franchise in my heart
JP depicts dinos like actual animals, tries out good things with speculative reconstruction, and although carnivores are always on the front stage they're not as much "epic big villain" as they are in JW

[wise sparrow]

Yea that's fair

JW just has the worst villains ever.

They could have depicted those corporations as the main bad people but they keep making "hee hoo big carnivore!!!"

[stray venture]

Giga joker momento

[golden coral]

@hexed sorrel They are both "nerfed" for the roster. Not sure what you're trying to say, but both stego and deino is not at full power/ability if we look at how they could be designed and given stats and all. Unless you want them both to go down to 4T or something, and both have nerfed damage or something so neither of them oneshot a utah or similar on basic attack or similar (in which case they both need to be seriously rebalanced to keep their own matchup the same).

[hexed sorrel]

so your saying steg owill have more than 1000 damage?

[hexed sorrel]

I mean Stego's 1000 damage honestly seems fine, even if they add apexes tbh, but deino have 500? its supposed to bite a LOT harder than even REX, so why tf give it such a low bite force and give stego such a high attack? im not saying it shouldnt one shot utah, maybe give deino a bite force of 650~ OR nerf stegos damage to 800-850 for the time being

[golden coral]

I don't know about the damage, but I would expect health/weight to be upped when the other larger apexes are out yes. As well as new/different attacks, including a moving attack, and so on. Things that'll allow it to survive handling a rex or giga, since it's not likely it'll outrun them. Honestly, I would rather make stego slightly less of a vunerable "glass cannon" and lower the damage, but that's just me.

As for deino, I think it's supposed to kill with the whole grab/lunge, and this means you can't give it too much bite, because if you do, then why would you bother grabbing? You can just "lunge" and go nom instead. At least that's how I think the reasoning is there. If you give deino proper bite power, it'll just use that, instead of drowning stuff. Which you can already do with utah or pachy as it stands.

[lapis wave]

Deino can't lunge stego (unless that's changed)

so stego only has to worry about getting bit which would be equally risky for the gator

[golden coral]

@hexed sorrelMy main point was more so that both critters are "nerfed" in comparison to what they might be when the rest of the ecosystem is there, so they are in a sense adjusted to what we currently have. Both of them in slightly different ways and for different reasons, but if they were both done with full power/properly, then nothing would be able to touch them at all. Deino would be even more invunerable than it is, and stego would be as invunerable as current deino is, if not more so as well.

[stray venture]

Only problem with buffing deino to match stego is nothing would keep it in the water if you think a pack of carnos or tenos can you either suck at deino or haven't fought a deino with half a braincell.

Once something like allo, Alberto or later apexes come in it can be buffed without hurting the balance of the game.

[hexed sorrel]

I dont have a problem of one stego being able to take on a deino, but I feel like maybe deino should be given a chance to fight back against a stego in water, maybe a lunge attack, if the devs dont do that the only way is buffing deino and or nerfing stego so that 2 deinos could take em on. and no, 2 deinos cannot take on a fully stam, fully healed stego.

[hollow canyon]

Yes they can, although Stego will probably just run away lest it has scobs for brain.

Deino doesn't need buffs to its combat abilities

One of the easiest things to grow that also roflstomps almost the entire roster having one losing match up.

[white cove]

if 2 deinos cannot take on a fully stam, fully healed stego then one (1) of them is a bad deino

if not both

[hollow canyon]

at least one

[white cove]

No 2 ways about it

[hollow canyon]

Pretty much although as I said if Stego has at least one functional brain lobe it will just tuck its tail and run in land leaving Deinos biting the dust behind it

[white cove]

yeah, it's really a two way street

Deino will never die to stego if it doesn't want to, stego will never die to deino if it doesn't want to

[hollow canyon]

^

[golden coral]

Do the lunge stun a stego that is swimming? Anyone tried that?

[hollow canyon]

Idk if it would matter much tbh

[hexed sorrel]

nope

you cant be a fucking bad deino, all there is too it is alt biting

[hollow canyon]

You can "nope" me all you want, I've literally done it

That's not true either, you can absolutely be a bad Deino

[hexed sorrel]

what your gonna dodge all those fuckin swings with you 18 km/h and youe 8 ton body

please

[hollow canyon]

I've clapped every single Deino I fought as a Deino so far, they are all trash

[hexed sorrel]

I would LOVE to see you 2v1 me when im a stego

[golden coral]

Maybe it wouldn't, but it would be interesting if a deino could do that, cause then a solo deino should be able to take a swimming stego pretty easily.

[hexed sorrel]

I wanna see those fights, lovely skill on holding alt and spamming bite

[hollow canyon]

That's not how you fight as Deino at all

[white cove]

I'm a bad deino.

[hexed sorrel]

thats the easiest way to kill lmao

what else do you do

dodge em bites yeah? xD

[hollow canyon]

Depends on what you're fighting

[hexed sorrel]

all you can do in a deino 1v1 and stego 1v1 is alt bite

[golden coral]

Two deinos working together can "stun lock" a stego and if not outright kill it, make it run away crying.

[hollow canyon]

not true

[hexed sorrel]

im talking about deino and stego

[hexed sorrel]

are you EU?

[hollow canyon]

Deino vs Stego you don't want ot just spam alt biting it

[hexed sorrel]

I wanna 1v1 you legit rn

I have a server if you are EU

[hollow canyon]

I don't have my PC

[hexed sorrel]

bruh

tell me one other way

[hollow canyon]

I'm on a laptop atm

you want to get under Stego

[hexed sorrel]

or show me a vid prove me wrong

[hollow canyon]

what matters the most is how you position yourself

if you clip yourself under Stego you can even 1v1 it

[hexed sorrel]

wtf bro a stego could EASILY just run around and swing your brains out

[hollow canyon]

I've done it before

[hexed sorrel]

you lsoe like 20% stam in like 2 seconds how are you going to get under a stego if it could just walk away then ur fucked

[hexed sorrel]

the stego was bad

[white cove]

Game mechanics: Hey you probably shouldn't be trying to 1v1 a stego

[hexed sorrel]

unless you get free headshots, there isnt a way you can kill a stego with 2 deinos

[hollow canyon]

I mean it's not going to walk away - it would die if it tried that but as I said it can run away

[hexed sorrel]

im saying 2v1

[hollow canyon]

there's nothing you can do about that

[white cove]

UnstoppableInk: Jesus fucking christ it's so bland when you 1v1 a stego

[white cove]

I must've misread this part where you said 2v1 mb

[hollow canyon]

2v1 is relatively easy although one Deino might die, most times when I did it both Deinos lived but

[golden coral]

2v1, if you mean two deinos, you can take a stego yes. 1v1 is pretty much going to be a stego win unless you pull some shenanigans or the stego is played by an actual stego maybe.. :p

[hexed sorrel]

bruh I legit alt bit my friend in my server til I died just to see how much damage it did, deadass took 25%

[hexed sorrel]

u cant tho

[golden coral]

You absolutely can.

[hollow canyon]

How in the world do you deal just 25% of Stego's health before you die as Deino?

[white cove]

yeah 2v1 "just alt bite" is objectively wrong lmao

[hollow canyon]

What in the world are you even doing?

[hexed sorrel]

tell me another way, show me a vid of a stego who actually knows what they are doing

[white cove]

I mean, if that's the way you think it really circles back to "one of you is a bad deino"

[hexed sorrel]

im not joking lmao

[hollow canyon]

Well that really says it all if you're not joking

[hexed sorrel]

oh

[white cove]

I think we've found the reason but I don't think you're going to like it

[golden coral]

@hexed sorrelI had literally 1% left of my health on my stego, after two deinos coordinated lunges and thus kept me at the shoreline long enough to get all the bites off. I did kill one, because I managed to move away and they followed one after the other, but if they had come at me together, or the second one had been close enough for just one more bite, I'd have been dead.

[hexed sorrel]

ill make sure to record it next time my friend is online

[hollow canyon]

if you deal just 25% of Stego's health as a Deino before you die then that's the very definition of a skill issue

[hexed sorrel]

LMAO, LUNGES

[golden coral]

I'd say that's plenty close to show that two deinos that work together can make a stego really regret going near their part of the shoreline.

[white cove]

must've aimed for the tail

[hexed sorrel]

lunges stun the deino longer than the stego lol

[hollow canyon]

that would mean you've landed 3 bodyshots before dying

that's just outright incompetence

are you sure you're even landing your bites?

[golden coral]

If it does, then it surely didn't work there. But even so, you can coordinate with another deino and still pull what I just said. Since it did happen.

[hexed sorrel]

you do know that stego can just turn and you cant do anything but bite its hind legs therefore doing less damage

plus I swear they like 4-5 headhot you

shot*

[white cove]

Makes sense, sounds like unstoppable is aiming for the tail so he probably got 4-5 bites off while getting headshot the entire time

[hollow canyon]

not if you clip under it

[hexed sorrel]

are all of you on EU servers

im gonna open up my server

[white cove]

or isnt positioning right and literally sitting on the shore spam biting while the stego turns around

[hexed sorrel]

2 of you can try and kill me I DOUBT you will even get me below 30%

[white cove]

NA

[hexed sorrel]

how much ping you go EU?

[white cove]

again: I am a bad deino, I dont think I can 2v1 but not because of the mechanics, because I am bad

[golden coral]

I don't even play any longer, due to both being utterly bored of the game, as well as performance (what I get for having a laptop..). But what I'm talking about happened before any changes that I know off, so it should still work, unless they have changed something in this matchup.

[hexed sorrel]

so your bad at pressing right click. ok

[white cove]

I don't try to run around and headshot the steg because it involves me leaving the water, and I don't like to do so

[hexed sorrel]

lovely everyone backed down

[hexed sorrel]

thats impossible

since they nerfed deino speed yet again

[hollow canyon]

I can totally 2v1 you when I have the conditions to do so

[white cove]

No but if that's your mindset then it sounds like you just may be

[hollow canyon]

not sure when that's gonna be though I'd assume like in a week?

[hexed sorrel]

uff dm me when you get ur pc

stego just claps 2 deinos no problem

[hollow canyon]

I'm currently moving across the country so I need to get my internet connection set up and get my PC

[hexed sorrel]

@white cove

[white cove]

Suh

[hexed sorrel]

how about you just try and tank bites on me

see how much damage you do

ill show you about that 25%

[wise sparrow]

Deino mains when they have one bad matchup:

[hollow canyon]

^

Isn't even that bad

[white cove]

I know how much damage it does

[hexed sorrel]

ive legit played deino like 4 months ago and never fought a stego but ok.

[white cove]

500 to body lmao

[hexed sorrel]

alr cool, you can do simple maths

but hind legs doesnt register as body

[hollow canyon]

^

[golden coral]

Well, you two can try it out vs Blank, see how it goes. But if you're not lunging, then I could see it not work very well. But if you can shut the stego down, you get some nice hits. Have one of you lunge, have the other then immediately go for the attack, or just attack at the same time, so the stunned deino gets some cover by his friend.

[wise sparrow]

-One shots the rest of the roster

-gets mad when something poses a slight threat

[white cove]

why the fuck you aiming for its hind legs

[hollow canyon]

they do register as body

[golden coral]

You probably need to plan it out, coordinate, and time it well. Can't just go solo on the stego, need some thought behind it and all that.

[white cove]

that's next to the tail it can quickswing easily

[hollow canyon]

if your bite lands on the legs at all they are going to count as he bodypart that got hit

[hexed sorrel]

I think you got the wrong dino 🤔

[golden coral]

Well, both of them oneshot, one with damage and one with fancy mechanic :p

[hexed sorrel]

BRUV its a fucking stego tail you can just run around a stego lmao u aint a utah

[hollow canyon]

The locational in this game is just trash unfortunately but there are still ways around it

[wise sparrow]

Tbh both apexes are like that
But deino tends to be the worst offender

[white cove]

also I'm pretty sure we're talking 2v1 where one of you has to go towards head to box it in

[golden coral]

Deino overall far superior to stego :p

[hexed sorrel]

im sorry but 18 km isnt getting you anywhere

[hexed sorrel]

500 damage isnt that much lmao

[white cove]

and if the stego just sprints away then you've won the fight anyways

[golden coral]

You can possibly use the lunge to get distance if you need.

[hexed sorrel]

no you havent lol

it could sprint and readjust

[hollow canyon]

I don't disagree that Deino is too slow to effectively fight it on land, if Stego runs away the fight is just over and there's not much you can do

[golden coral]

Though it's a little less useful these days, but it's still a start + then moving while the stego is stunned

[wise sparrow]

Right click instantly deletes everything but stego

[hollow canyon]

if it stands and tries to duke it out with 2 Deinos though it just dies

[white cove]

It needs to come back to water eventually, and you aren't a Trex that should be equipped to chase said stego

[hexed sorrel]

oh you mean t he right click that lunger 2 cm?

[golden coral]

And that's the point here, isn't it? That two deinos can and will kill a stego, possibly with losses, but if they plan it out, they can probs both survive.

[hexed sorrel]

and wasted 80% stam even tho your grabbing something 1/5 ur size?

[white cove]

says a lot about deino mindset that the one dino they cant 0 counterplay drown throws them into a tailspin

[wise sparrow]

Why tf are you lungeing at shit like teno on land?

[hexed sorrel]

drowinging

[golden coral]

@hexed sorrelWhat?.. Since when does the lunge cost that much to use, unless you're on land and not in the water?..

[hexed sorrel]

drowning*

[hexed sorrel]

I mean after you drown

[wise sparrow]

There has to be some tradeoff for deleting 2 hours of progress

[golden coral]

... But at that point you've killed the target?

[hexed sorrel]

yeah the trade off is having the SLIGHT possibility of actually having the teno not see your fatass ripples, having enough stamina, and it not drinking at shallow water

[lapis wave]

I love listening to your piss ant soldiers trying to talk tough. They make me laugh. If Matrix was here...he'd laugh too.

[golden coral]

Without it being able to fight back at that :p

[white cove]

isn't the only shallow water at like 2 spots in swamp rn

and the glitch spot at NW

[hexed sorrel]

even so, deino lunge barely moves

[wise sparrow]

You are not a rex. You are not a big bad movie monster. You are just another playable. Like any other playable you have a bad matchup. Deal with it. Its one playable that can kinda threaten you

[hexed sorrel]

dam

glicthed spot

[white cove]

isn't dam...swamp?

[wise sparrow]

Literally swim away if the stego is so scary

[hexed sorrel]

glitched spot I meant

[white cove]

oh, right

[golden coral]

Maybe they've made it worse, but then you have to be a bit creative. You can still use it to stun the stego and move while it's stunned, to position to make it have to either turn or take extra bites.

[hexed sorrel]

yeah ima just ignore its on my diet and its a game

[white cove]

Deino has all the agency for every matchup

[golden coral]

You could.. try for smaller stegos that you can grab :p

[white cove]

kill 'em while they're young. That's the best counter to stegos tbh

they have like 3.5h minimum of being terrible and slow

[hexed sorrel]

you fr gonna act like they arent gonna drink at shallows

[wise sparrow]

1. Eat smaller stegos

2. Just because it's a game doesn't mean you get to roll over everything as the big bad carnivore

[golden coral]

No, but you want me to say anything about people using glitched areas? I think we all want those to be fixed.

[white cove]

I don't ?
and shallows are normally terrestial hotspots, where smaller stegos get murderized by any adult carnivore with their monitor on

[hexed sorrel]

I dont mind stego killing deino 1v1, but 2v1 deino should clap stego with minimal problems

[golden coral]

And as far as we know, they do

With a bit of thought behind it, you do clap that stego, not with minimal problems, but plenty fair enough for the deinos

[hexed sorrel]

minimal problems

[white cove]

why? They shouldn't even be "fighting" since 1 is a terrestial and one is a semi aquatic

[hexed sorrel]

even tho I dont think they can

[wise sparrow]

Considering it's a whole ass croc on land. No. It should not clap a stego with no problems

[hexed sorrel]

even in water

[wise sparrow]

In water stego cant even attack

[hexed sorrel]

what DIFFERENCE does deino have on water besides having a fucking cloak ability, stego can stand on shore and 2 deinos cant do 2 fucks about it

[golden coral]

Which means.. what exactly then?

[hexed sorrel]

idk maybe losing 95% hp or dying, just minor problems

[white cove]

correct. But if damaged the deino can swim away with no fear for its safety and if damaged the stego can walk away with no fear for its safety

[wise sparrow]

Shore is still land. The advantage you have is the ability to go in the water while the stego cant give chase

[white cove]

seems fine to me since only one of them will need to come back and drink

[golden coral]

Minor problems for hunting an apex, I don't know, maybe if pairs of deinos were really rare and only happened during very specific circumstances then.

[lapis wave]

Except for like the...ya know....20 other Deinos waiting to Cannibal you

[hexed sorrel]

yall arguing but no one wanna 2v1 me 👍

[wise sparrow]

Pairs of deinos dont exist.
Its always 4 or more

[hexed sorrel]

yeah you know what, ur right I 100% agree with you.....

[golden coral]

As they should. And last I heard, stegos apparently "cannibalise" each other too xD

[wise sparrow]

Some of us have a life outside of playing a dumb river worm

[white cove]

that doesn't sound like a stego problem

[hexed sorrel]

I actually dont, I just see 1 stego dipping 80% of its body in water and deinos cant do shit aboutt it

[white cove]

hey take that back
crocodiles are cool as shit

[wise sparrow]

Irl Crocodile = cool
The isle deino = cringe

[hexed sorrel]

funny thing is 80% of this can be fixed if they give stegos swing reduced damage in water AS IT SHOULD

[white cove]

I think stego v deino is a relatively minor problem as even if deino is buffed to be able to "easily" 2v1 stegos, then stegos will just walk away instead of fishing anyways

[golden coral]

I think Aken agreed, when he has the possibiltiy. I'm sure he can bring someone else who's capable to help him out. I've not played deino for very long, so I'd need some practice, and I really have little interest in the game as long as stego is.. well, not a well designed stego, since it's my favourite herbi.

[white cove]

what is a major balance concern is that stupid rock at northwest that stegos can stand on

[golden coral]

You know, I'm fine with making everyones attack reduced if they are in deep enough water to walk. That'd work for you?

[golden coral]

Hilarious thing is, deinos can get up there too xD

[hexed sorrel]

it would work for DEINOS yes.

[golden coral]

Just like the dam. It's.. very odd :p

[hollow canyon]

Sure, I'd be happy to give it a shot, the issue might be finding that other person and me being able to actually play the game.

[golden coral]

As long as it's applied to every terrestial and not just stego, I'm fine with it. I don't think it'll solve your issues though, becuase most stegos don't stand in deep water, or they won't , just to drink.

[wise sparrow]

Stego actually literally has to have a good matchup against deino as it is the only thing preventing then from ruling the la6

[hexed sorrel]

ok but can someone try 1v1ing me as deino and me stego just to showw yall how much fucking health I have left

[golden coral]

Nah, we can just give them 5 min water retention xD

[hollow canyon]

It makes my laptop hyperventilate and last I tried to play it on the PC it butchered FPS dropping it down to 15, I swear Evrima performs worse with every goddamn patch.

[golden coral]

Though I feel that'd be less fun, deinos should have to be on land and be vunerable if anything

[hollow canyon]

Can someone just go and bite him a couple of times?

[hollow canyon]

Non-issue

[hexed sorrel]

realistically a lunge to the head would be death to a stego, but obviously its a video game so they cant do that, so how about giving deino a hold on mechanic, or if 2 deinos lunge a stego they can drag it down, something like that so it can be more viable in water

[hollow canyon]

I think Deinos SHOULD be on land

[white cove]

I've declined because I know I'm bad at deino v stego (as a deino), so you'd probably end up with as much health as your buddy did when you 1v1'd him as a deino.

Which should speak volumes but you can't read between the lines

[wise sparrow]

You mean for like nesting right?

Like shorelines... right?

[white cove]

That said, I also just swim away from the tails sticking in the water like fishing lures because I am smarter than a trout.

[hollow canyon]

No, I mean for travelling and moving around, they shouldn't get to sit in the water 24/7

They should a longer water drain and be faster on land

[hexed sorrel]

why I've never seen a croc migrate in my life

[golden coral]

Yeah, and realistically, a thagomizer to the head would kill the deino, so there is that. And well, could work, but I doubt we get any fancy mechanics, just look at how pounce/buck works. You could do something similar, but.. it'd not be very fun for either side really. I think it's better to just treat stego like any other apex, it's off limits. Nothing really wrong with that.

[hollow canyon]

and be FORCED to go on land if they want to move from one body of water to another

[white cove]

Amp the fuck out of deino's stamina pool but make it need to be on land to regen stamina. like bird

[wise sparrow]

Well I mean yea they should have to crawl between water sources if the one they are in doesn't feed them. But they should be hella vulnerable while doing so

[hollow canyon]

while also being sufficiently buffed on land to actually be able to do that

[white cove]

heavy handed solution but I'm open to others

[hexed sorrel]

deino is an apex aswell tho.

[golden coral]

Basking ftw!

[hollow canyon]

They should be vulnerable enough but nothing too crazy

[hollow canyon]

that's very questionable

[white cove]

Yeah, oasis had its issues but one thing it did right was encourage deinos to migrate

[golden coral]

Yes, but not an apex designed to hunt other apexes. And therein lies the main problem here. You have a mechanic that can't let you hunt big animals.

[hollow canyon]

We know Deino is supposed to be getting clapped by at least 2 apexes

[wise sparrow]

Stego would still shit on a deino far from water

[hexed sorrel]

what hwo tho xD it weighs 8 tons and bites a LOT harder than a fucking REX

[hollow canyon]

It doesn't bite harder than Rex

[hexed sorrel]

im gonna ignore that.

[golden coral]

@white coveA, make deino regen stam only by resting on land, basking. B, make them have more stam, be faster, and add lakes, where they have to migrate on land to, and thus be vunerable to being found not just by stegos, but by carnos, utah packs, and so on.

[white cove]

saw a lot of crocs walking from center river to oasis

[wise sparrow]

Deino is more of a fat psuedo apex.

[hollow canyon]

not just not "a lot harder", it doesn't bite harder at all

[hexed sorrel]

im about to have brain cancer

[hollow canyon]

I mean you can ignore it, doesn't change the reality

[hexed sorrel]

why are you so confident on whats wrong? where do you get your info

[golden coral]

I think it's because people confuse sheer force with impact, or how to phrase it :p

[white cove]

Deino players gonna be in a tizzy when real life bite force N != game damage and most terrestial apexes end up having more than them

[wise sparrow]

Even if deino bit harder than rex, that won't happen In game

[hollow canyon]

More knowledgeable people, Deinosuchus doesn't even have the highest biteforce among the crocodillians

[golden coral]

Exactly. Because deino is designed with a very specific mechanic that doesn't have anything to do with biteforce like that. Though you could argue the biteforce is there, in their ability to grab and hold things like that.

[hollow canyon]

We have evidence of what its bite did to the animals it had bitten

[hexed sorrel]

never said that, I was saying rex.

[hexed sorrel]

"we" are you a fucking paleontologist

[hollow canyon]

Yea and Rex is contesting the aforementioned crocodillian for the highest biteforce

amont the terrestrial animals that is

[hexed sorrel]

PLEASE tell me where you get the info

EVERY google result says ur wrong mate xD

there should be at least one no?

[hollow canyon]

I mean, if I were to use google then I guess my results would indeed be wrong

Let me guess you found the 102kN biteforce for Deinosuchus while googling

[hexed sorrel]

Ok send me ur info

[hexed sorrel]

what

[hollow canyon]

The one from Gignac and Erickson?

[wise sparrow]

Google is not reliable for dino information.

[golden coral]

Anyway, deino, while technically an apex, is not designed to hunt bigger animals, due to the focus on grab and drown. A mechanic, that due to lack of counterplay, is probably not the best to give the ability to kill larger things that take more time and effort to grow. And giving it higher biteforce, will only make said mechanic less needed and useful for the proper sized prey, as well as allow deinos to just.. "pack" together and bite the shit out of things, instead of being solitary and using a mechanic that does not require another deino at all to get kills successfully.

[hollow canyon]

That paper is from 2012, literally everyone quotes it without reading the actual paper

I have read the thing

[hexed sorrel]

bruv it says 8000 pounds

thats like less than 4 tons 0.0

[hollow canyon]

the authors themselves say that their estimates for Deinosuchus are tenuous at best due to large differences between the extant crocodillians and the Deinosuchus itself

Idk where you're getting 8000 pounds from

Deino's lower estimate is around 4t indeed

upper goes to about 6t+ iirc

[wise sparrow]

-Calls you out for your lack of a source

-doesn't provide any valid source themselves

Oh

[hexed sorrel]

.

[wise sparrow]

I am slow at typing

[wise sparrow]

2012...

How tf is that valid to you?

[hexed sorrel]

I mean

[wise sparrow]

?

[hollow canyon]

It's not about the time

The paper would be fine even being that old, the issue is the methodology

[wise sparrow]

Wheres the reasoning?
By your logic of that ss I could say
Teno could kill rex no doubt

[hexed sorrel]

what.

[golden coral]

A, paleotalk. B, irl is secondary to game balance anyway. Deino, no matter if it did go nom for real or not, in the game it's not designed to do that.

[wise sparrow]

It just says something with no evidence

[hollow canyon]

The way you achieve those absurd biteforces for Deinosuchus is by taking a modern crocodile and upscaling its biteforce relatively to the size of Deinosuchus

[hexed sorrel]

bro I just. ok.

[hollow canyon]

It's a scientific paper, I'm pretty sure there are reasons for those values although it's beyond me why any scientist would express those in "pounds"

Science uses metric system for a reason

[hexed sorrel]

bros writing an essay

[hollow canyon]

The reason why we know that Deinosuchus didn't bite that hard is simply because we have the bones of animals that got bitten and they are not in a state they'd be in if they were to get compressed with such forces

[hexed sorrel]

oh

[hollow canyon]

Meanwhile the poor groundsloth that got bitten by Purussaurus had its femur literally implode when the croc bit it

Estimating biteforces of animals is difficult, especially of those that are extinct, everyone used to be convinced that Deinonychus didn't have a very high biteforce until we found remnants of animals whose bones were bearing bitemarks of this dinosaur suggesting that it could bite through bone.

Btw I'm not disagreeing that Deino's bite on Stego's head would likely kill the latter

irl that is, but as you've mentioned - game

Also excerpt from the study where the figure of 102kN(aka 23000 pounds) comes from:

"(Note: the upper bound bite-force estimate for Deinosuchus riograndensis is more tenuous since the largest known fossil crocodilian specimens greatly exceed the neontological size range studied here.)"

Having said all that - I do think that Stego vs Deino should be a closer fight but I'd rather just nerf Stego(by decreasing its damage while maybe increasing its bleed to compensate for the nerf), Deino doesn't really need any direct combat buffs.

I'd maybe at best buff its running speed, idk why it was nerfed in the first place.

[hexed sorrel]

thats funny

[white cove]

Isn't stego tailswing just enough to headshot carnos though?

[hollow canyon]

It is

[hollow canyon]

why?

[hexed sorrel]

.

ignore that

[white cove]

U2 Stego v Carno

[hexed sorrel]

a LOT harder than rex

[hollow canyon]

Stego deals more damage than 1k just fyi

[hexed sorrel]

in the beginning I wanted stegos damage to be reduced...

[white cove]

1250 iirc

[hexed sorrel]

oh great

[white cove]

or 1200 idk

[hollow canyon]

I genuinely don't know what you're getting at

Carno's trash at dealing with Stego

[hexed sorrel]

carno could kill stego with tailbites, tailbites used to actually do damage lol

[white cove]

Stego not headtapping carno leads to every carno and their mother trying their luck at attacking stego because if they fuck up they just walk it off

[hexed sorrel]

that was patched tho

[hollow canyon]

I know but they no longer do that and Stego got significantly buffed more than once since then

[spare badger]

headshot on tail

[hollow canyon]

so?

[white cove]

U2 Stego v Carno

[hexed sorrel]

yeah lmao utah could kill a whole stego with like 9-11 bites to the head

now utah bite is fucking useless

[hollow canyon]

U2 Stego was trash, it had much less hp, turned like a bus and its thagomizerhad an absurd damage multiplier, what are you even talking about?

[hexed sorrel]

ight ima go to bed, cya

[hollow canyon]

The matchup working like that had nothing to do with the fact that Carno could survive a headshot from Stego

Stego didn't lack the damage

it lacked literally everything else

[white cove]

Just think there's merit to stego being able to headtap carnos is all, otherwise it becomes a stego v carno all day erryday

[hollow canyon]

No it doesn't even if Stego can't onetap Carno with a headshot that doesn't make Carno good at dealing with Stego, it would still be trash at that

[white cove]

If it comes down to damage nerf/buff I'd prefer they hit deino bite with a damage buff

[hollow canyon]

Gods... no

[white cove]

'tis why I don't want it to come down strictly to a damage nerf/buff

hopefully a number of other solutions (swinging in water, HP balance, map design) are attempted first

That said, I don't even think stego v deino matchup is a real issue because just swim away but if something must be done then I'd hope it's something in the second message first

[hollow canyon]

I mean... it's not the match up that's the real issue, the real issue is the existence of these two playables in this game atm

[white cove]

hard fkn agree

remove deino, replace stego with kentro

[hollow canyon]

not happening, those aren't realistic solutions

[white cove]

I know

[hollow canyon]

The devs aren't going to remove "fully implemented" playables

[white cove]

I know

[tall bronze]

Could just add sandbox, swap em in officials and keep them in sandbox

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-snape-harrypotter-alan-rickman-idk-gif-4982423

[fresh laurel]

Ngl still didnt like that change to utah bite
I mean how low it got... not the actual idea of nerfing bite

[fresh laurel]

Wasnt stego moveset based on being ai thus making it not feel as fleshed out as normal playables?

[hollow canyon]

I haven't seen any confirmation of that tbh but tbh that's how it felt to me

and I don't disagree that Utah's bite is useless

I think it should get buffed, Utah is just such a one-trick pony atm, entirely reliant on one of the most buggy mechanics in the game.

[fresh laurel]

75n bite doe... would that kill balancing?

[hollow canyon]

It wouldn't not that I consider balancing as the biggest issue with the game atm.

I just outright stopped playing it because it performs so badly.

[fresh laurel]

I think utahs deserve more reward for landing a bite for their size and hp

I say size since it can make you not be able to bite something head or do a hit and run easily

[fresh laurel]

The clip of that one person utah being sent to another realm makes me feel like returning to legacy until pounce works for real this time

[hollow canyon]

I think you're gonna be waiting until ~update 9

[fresh laurel]

Man 3 years from now?

What happened to after update 3 updates will be waaay faster

[white cove]

We do a lot of goalpost shifting here

Humans were supposed to be "in" by the end of 2021 and a secret test branch with flashlights was enough - skins were supposed to be U5 and now they won't even come with patterns

not #balance-feedback-discussion but relevant I guess

[half girder]

ive stopped an impenetrable wall from growing, utah for da win

[white cove]

thats how you do it

[half girder]

they 9 bite a pachy wym

and do pretty good bleed

[fresh laurel]

Pachy has low bleed hp of 500 compared to utah 450 bleed hp

Also pachy normally wouldnt let a utah 9 bite them if they can time better
Also utah targets bigger animals so...

[half girder]

i mean a dumb pachy would lol

rem killing two cuz i sat in the mud and all they could do was pinch me

[fresh laurel]

Welp my thing is utah bite just feels like its there only because utah eats meat and not exactly to be rewarding

[half girder]

well it’s a bleeder so

can’t have it doing too much

only with its pounce ofc

well not only but

[unborn iris]

I feel like they did something to carno in these patches, I can't tell if it's less acceleration (Doesn't feel like it, playing carno), or maybe they just reduced the bite radius. Feels a lot easier juking them.

[half girder]

huuuuuuuh

[keen plover]

what

What patch are you playing

[spare badger]

legacy

[rapid flicker]

playing with a controller?

[hollow canyon]

@fast violet This is a general issue with CC for some reason it works on things larger than it should. This is a thing with Carno itself too - this animal is actually capable of stunning animals larger than itself with its charge for some goddamn reason even though it's supposed to be a small game hunter. The devs should scale down the upper limits of what can be CCed by most animals I'd say.

[vocal minnow]

Carno should be an ambusher

[hollow canyon]

It most certainly shouldn't

[vocal minnow]

And charge should take much more stamina because they can just spamm it

[fast violet]

fucking yes! if at 99% I weigh 1,799kg and I charge a 100% carno at 1,800kg not only can I not knock him down it literally take damage yet something 3x smaller than me a pachy knocks me down? anyone with any sense knows pachy needs buff right now and fixing this would "technicall" nerf it but it makes no sense it has to change.

[hollow canyon]

My guy at 99% you could(almost) stun an Allosaurus.

it kind of depends on how large they make Allo

but in general Carno can stun things up to 2.7t

[fast violet]

not right now it can't

you charge something that's even 1kg heavier than you and you're fucked

[hollow canyon]

Perhaps they've finally changed it with the patches but before that you could actually stun things up to 1.5x larger than yourself

if they are 1kg heavier than that you get stunned though

[fast violet]

pachy is not just stunning but knocking down things 3x it's size it's silly it makes no sense pachy NEEDS buff it's pathetic but this is not the way to do it.

[hollow canyon]

Just for the record - you weren't a fully grown Carno when that happened right?

[fast violet]

like I said in my message, I'm 6ft1 210lbs I could run with everything I had against a 300+lb man and I could bring him down but if I charge some 7ft 600lb dude I'd break my back long before I'd bring him down there is a line and right now it's waaaaaaaaay off

I was 1,300+kg I can't remember the exact weight I just know it was over 1,300 pachy is 500kg

we're talking an almost 3x deficit

[hollow canyon]

Yea cause fully grown Carno is more than 3 times larger

either way this looks like a bug

[fast violet]

I'm not saying pachy shouldn't bring down carno but there is a line of how big of a thing you can bring down

[slim dragon]

@Crash you should read this

[hollow canyon]

Pachy's not a hammer

what in the world are you even talking about?

It has nowhere near the momentum to bring down something 3-4 times bigger

we're not talking about fracturing Carno

we're talking about it knocking it down

[slim dragon]

It literally is
It's something hard propelled at you with all of its weight

[fast violet]

hammer that transfers weight + velocity into a large head that travels down a body into a tiny pin head point to cause penetration someone familiar with physics knowledge knows this is a not only a silly but dumb comparison

[hollow canyon]

Yes, now - if you've ever hit yourself with a hammer has the force behind that send you flying and falling onto the ground?

Cause tha's not how hammers work even if we go with this ridiculous comparison

hammer will break your bones not send you flying

neither will the bullets unlike what you see in cinema

[slim dragon]

Does pachy send carnos flying ? Just falling down from the impact is enough

[fast violet]

hammer into nail causes penetration not sheer kinetic energy this is a silly argument discuss it all you wish I will entertain it no further

[hollow canyon]

it's too much, it has nowhere near the momentum to cause Carno to drop on the ground

[vocal minnow]

when does carno fall at what growth stage?

[fast violet]

exactly

[hollow canyon]

Subadult/young adult it seems

[slim dragon]

That like that video of a cow and a goat charging each other
It's not just a matter of weight but how sturdy your head is

[hollow canyon]

1300kg+

[hollow canyon]

Carno isn't getting hit on the head in this scenario

[slim dragon]

I never mentioned nails
Hammer into head causes knockdown

[hollow canyon]

the cow got a concussion from getting hit by that goat

[fast violet]

I was body hit

[hollow canyon]

we're not talking about headshots

[slim dragon]

Ah then it's different
I didn't know pachy kso knocks down carno on body hits
Mb

[hollow canyon]

watch the video that's being discussed

[fast violet]

wait

you haven't even watch the dam video!

[hollow canyon]

@slim dragon#balance-feedback message

[hollow canyon]

ikr

[fast violet]

the one that sparked this discussion???

and yet you speak like we should care about what you think

that's beyond me, go watch the dam video!

[slim dragon]

It's a discussion I've already had in the past, I thought it was the same topic

[fast violet]

WATCH THE VIDEO

not gonna sit here and act like there is a valid argument as to why something almost 3x smaller than me can knock me down.

[slim dragon]

That might be a bug because I'm on phone but the link doesn't send me to a video

[fast violet]

I will dm it to you

[slim dragon]

But last time I had this conversation it was about pachy knocking down carno head-on, which I think makes sense

[hollow canyon]

if it sends you to a message then the video is below that

[fast violet]

I dm it to him

[slim dragon]

Ok I've seen it now

The knockdown (and knockback) does look a bit extreme, but not that silly in my opinion

[fast violet]

same I was 1316kg

I knew it was somewhere in the 1300s couldn't quite remember

[fast violet]

I respect that you have an opinion. I still believe if I'm 3x you're size you're not knocking me down. Go watch the nfl if you need more proof

[slim dragon]

The animation is just terrible and makes it look like the carno was hit by a 10 ton wrecking ball but I believe if it lost balance and fell down instead it would look better
As for the balance side of the question, idk what would change if it was removed

[fast violet]

again, I'm done with this argument. 3x the size the idea that you could bring me down is just silly. have yourself a lovely evening 😄

[hollow canyon]

It's just outright immersion breaking and stupid looking

not that Pachy should even be relying on CC, its main tool should be fractures - if they aren't enough, the solution is simple - just buff them

Pachy shouldn't knock down anything larger than itself, well maybe something up to Dilo's size

anything larger - stun at most

[rapid flicker]

Its looks cool and is fun gameplay wise. I see nothing wrong with it

Just dont mess with a pachy when you're not full adult carno

[rapid flicker]

"stun at most" I mean if you want the stun removed aswell then what chance do pachy's even have...

Oh and btw, stun has the same results as knockdown (its both an animation lock) it just looks less cool.

[hollow canyon]

No, the length is different

you have more time to do stuff when you knock something down than when you just stun it

also the head of the target is far more vulnerable when it's down on the ground

and lastly "stun at most" because it shouldn't be stunning every thing larger than itself

Carno is fine-ish, Allo though? Alberto? If pachy tries to stun either of those they should just get to borderline ignore it

[rapid flicker]

Lets take for example a carno. If pachy doesnt stun it everytime it goes for a charge, it has a 2 second recovery time after. Meaning the target can get free dmg in. The stun is what keeps the target from trading hits.

Else pachy would be dead in an instant

[hollow canyon]

I mean it sounds like the issue is the recovery time(not that it's my first time saying this)

[rapid flicker]

Recovery time becomes a problem when you remove stuns

thats the only reason pachy is not attacking deino, stego etc

because they cant get stunned

[hollow canyon]

Which is exactly how it should be so it works just fine

I'm saying Pachy has no business stunning things larger than Carno

If you try that against any larger animal you should be getting a one way ticket to the character selection screen

[rapid flicker]

Whenever allo gets in it should be stunnable tho

Else pachy has no chance of fighting back

Deino and stego are slow, so it wont matter to them and im fine with the way things are balanced around it now

[hollow canyon]

lol

Pachy isn't meant to be fighting Allo

That thing is a behemoth in comparison

[rapid flicker]

The only escape pachy has. is fracturing their hunter

It needs to attack to fracture

[hollow canyon]

No, it's running in this case

You literally just have to run, if you try to fight an Allo you should just die

If you let it get to you - you should also just die

[rapid flicker]

If allo has worse speed then pachy, then its balanced fine

If its faster. It needs to get stunned on attack

Still think the knockdowns and stuns in game are fine as they are now though

[hollow canyon]

I mean... if Allo is faster than Pachy then we have some big issues

[vocal minnow]

yep only in that case

[rapid flicker]

There is probably a set parameter for the animations
<1.5 tons = knock
<2.5 tons = stun
2.5+ tons = nothing

[hollow canyon]

There is a set parameter but it's different on every animal

I believe it's more likely that the parameters don't work with flat values like you wrote above

but instead create a comparison between the attacker's weight and the target's weight

otherwise we'd have juvenile Tenontos stunning Carnos

same goes for Pachys although that was a thing at one point

[rapid flicker]

I've seen juvi carno's knocking down full adult pachies though

[vocal minnow]

juvi...

[hollow canyon]

Yea cause the values for Carno are also just ridiculous

Carno needs a nerf with regard to that too

[rapid flicker]

yes as in, fresh spawned

[vocal minnow]

stunning or knocking down?

[rapid flicker]

knocking down

[hollow canyon]

Does it work on adult Carnos/Tenos?

because that sounds like a bug

you should report that, a fresh spawn Carno has no business stunning an adult Pachy

[rapid flicker]

I dont know about that. All i know is that ive been rammed as pachy by a small little carno baby

[hollow canyon]

not to mention knocking it down

[rapid flicker]

and got knocked down

[hollow canyon]

Well, try to test it then

I can't currently as I don't have my PC but that's obviously a bug

or some omission on the side of the devs

or QA perhaps

[rapid flicker]

I dont have a private server to test on anymore, would love to find one again

[hollow canyon]

You could try using Taco Island

I will try to ask someone to test it and see how it goes

[vocal minnow]

can utah pounce in bushes

[rapid flicker]

Carno ram animation is weird as hell anyway. Hitting it on the side while its doing its charge results in you getting knocked anyway

[hollow canyon]

since I can't really run Evrima atm, my laptop just starts fighting for every breath

[rapid flicker]

Ill try that one out, thanks!

[rapid flicker]

Yes.

[vocal minnow]

without falling?

[rapid flicker]

I mean, bushes have no collision. why wouldnt it be able to?

[vocal minnow]

it was liek this some time ago

[rapid flicker]

Utahs could also be knocked off by trees, but thats fixed.

Never seen the bush problem before thought but i rarely see utahs pouncing in bushes. Thats for vision reasons i guess

[keen plover]

I would say that pachy should only stun up to 1.8T but also at the same time- it would depend how fast larger carnivores around 1.9T are. Although currently stunning and fracturing decently up to 2.7T is a lot

In the current game though, it has no business stunning anything larger than Carno

[hollow canyon]

There are no carnivores at 1.9t on the roster

[keen plover]

Yeah

[hollow canyon]

also - the 2.7t value is how big of an animal Carno can stun, it's not about Pachy

Idk what the cut off point for Pachy is

[keen plover]

No pachy can do it as well

[hollow canyon]

Are you sure it cuts off exactly at 2.7t for Pachy?

[keen plover]

I would need to test again, but I’m confident. At the very least, I was a 60% stego

And either way, it can 100% attack stegos in the 2T range

[hollow canyon]

Yea I don't doubt it can stun things below 2t

[keen plover]

below 2T? I meant above

[hollow canyon]

Oh, I thought by 2t range you mean things up to 2t. I might test it at some point when I get my PC back to check what the upper limit is but either way - it's too high atm

[keen plover]

Ok, I'll try to send a video soon of the exact weight.

[hollow canyon]

I mean just test what the cut off point is, I will believe you, dw

I just need an exact value

[keen plover]

Ok

[hollow canyon]

check how heavy 60% stego is, then check if you can stun a 65% one, if so try a 70% and so on

[keen plover]

yeah will do

[hasty coyote]

Personally, pachy should stun anything that can outrun it and knock over things of similar size.

[keen plover]

I still wonder fast "carno-lite" allo will be. They wanted it to be able to run down smalls. Although maybe things have changed since then, and not like allos being developed

If it's pachy speed, I guess pachy can stun it. However that would be stupid for allo to be that fast

[hasty coyote]

I just can’t wait to see what the cera matchup will be, because it might be in the size range to knock over.

[keen plover]

lol that would be funny

[rapid flicker]

Depends on the weight. Cera should be less heavier then carno and a carno can be knocked at around 1.5t? i guess cera is gonna way less then that. Allthough im fine with the way carno's get knocked over at that size I dont want to see pachies knocking full adult cera's over.

[lusty berry]

If Cerato is gonna be a brawler type I don't see it getting knocked down by Pachy

[hasty coyote]

I hope it doesn’t get knocked down, but it would be very funny

[keen plover]

Pachy shouldn’t even be knocking down carnos that large in the first place

The way it is, it’s going to be knocking down dilo as well

[dusky surge]

which is fine imho lmao

[keen plover]

Not really imo, it’s already going to be fracturing it

It already stuns things larger than it, so it will definitely be able to get a second hit in

[hasty coyote]

I’m not 100% sure on dilo compared to pachy size wise but I know it’s a bit bigger. If pachy is unable to run from them, then pachy should knock down to be rewarded for hitting them. It’s likely going to be a similar fight to a raptor, you have to go for the kill.

Especially if the venom from a single bite is impactful, it would force pachies to go for the kill.

[keen plover]

Dilo is around 700kg iirc compared to pachys 500kg. I'm not completely against knockdowns though at that range. Although I would prefer pachy to not knockdown things larger than it

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I think the limit for knock down should be at 1.5x pachy weight, which puts dilo right at the limit

[keen plover]

I mean yeah should be fine, but knocking down iirc a 1T carno at 75% growth is something pachy shouldn't do

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that’s a bit much

[rapid flicker]

"Nerf carnos its ridiculous they are everywhere. Make it so they turn around slower or have lower stam but nothing can beat it in a 1v1 with equal skill (besides stegos and deinos but they are to slow to really do anything) only way to kill them is to group up on them or to be really skilful with terrain but in open field you are just doomed. This all wouldnt be a problem if there where a few and if it was hard to grow but thats clearly not the case because on most servers its 50% carnos and 50% others. So making it harder to grow would also help solve the problem through making it that the juviles dont get a stupid grow boost by just eating they should also run around the map. And with the AI being plenty babies dont have to struggle to kill other babies for food or find other carnos that killed something that they are wiling to share. To many carnos was always a problem but now its just getting extreme. (I am not suggesting this all should happen but at least 1 or any other way so the carno pop gets reduced). Just my thoughts as a herby main so I am a bit biased 😛

Shorter version: Carno are to easy to grow and to keep alive for how strong they are and because of that there are way to many of them (most servers I play on 50% of other dinos that I see are carnos, last night I was sitting on a rock with 2 other pachies and there where 20 carnos circling us on a 100 pop server)."

I dont get why people downvote this post. Carno's are a problem

[unborn iris]

Most of carno's being OP comes from other dinos' issues.

Utahs would destroy carnos with a working pounce. Pachys can destroy carnos. Tenos can destroy carnos.

Carnos just require a little less skill than the others, for the most part.

The main issue is it's really easy to grow, I think.

So in short.. I don't think carno needs a nerf, just carnivore diet should go to like 25% for no diet or something.

Right now you can eat at 50% and make it past 90% with perfect diet. At 25% that would drop closer to 65%. A lot of growing left with diet requirement.

Would kind of make up for the hour you spend extra as an herbivore getting your diet.

[rapid flicker]

Lets not do the "If everything is OP, nothing is" instead, just nerf carno.

Yes teno & pachy CAN destroy a carno. 95% of the time they end up dead

[unborn iris]

I disagree.

[rapid flicker]

And i agree growth is an issue

[unborn iris]

I guess we have different experiences.

I would take teno over pachy any day in a 1v1.

But like I said, the teno needs to be skilled. vs an equally skilled carno.

[rapid flicker]

You dont really mean that you would pick pachy vs carno in a 1v1?

[unborn iris]

Should pachy 1v1 a carno?

I would take 2 pachys vs 1 carno any day, though.

[keen plover]

bruh current pachy would be rolled by update 4 carno

[rapid flicker]

this would even be a 50/50

carno is just that strong compared to pachy

Coming from someone who plays only pachy btw

[keen plover]

2 pachys is enough for a carno. Yeah the carno can still win, but you should win a lot more of the encounters as a pair

[unborn iris]

Problem with pachy is it requires a lot of map knowledge and positioning. There is a pretty big skill gap for utah, teno and pachy.. which is why these issues come up.

[rapid flicker]

I mean yes. Carno is super noobfriendly. All you need to do to avoid any danger is run away and nothing can catch you

[unborn iris]

Yep.

[rapid flicker]

juvi speed is already 40kmh

[keen plover]

Pachy's charge turn radius is what screws you though. Once a carnos behind you, it takes a bit of work to get another attack off

I feel like they should buff the other playables in certain places first and see what else they should change with carno.

[unborn iris]

My personal opinion. If I had to put money on the fight I would take teno over carno, 2 pachys over carno, and with a working pounce 2 utahs over carno.

[rapid flicker]

This 100%. plus the stamina drain on attack and the slow trot speed

[rapid flicker]

i dont play the other dino's so I have no opinion of this, but pachy stands a chance 2v1 yes. 1v1 its doomed

[unborn iris]

I feel like you should have a decent chance getting away 1v1 as a pachy, as long as you don't put yourself in a position where you're stuck out in the plains and get caught.

[keen plover]

My main complaint is, they nerf a playable and then buff others to make a big gulf in class. Then it takes 5 years for a balance to fix it which then repeats the same mistake and the cycle continues

[unborn iris]

Like I said.. map awareness is needed.

[rapid flicker]

the only time you get away is if you find a rock to jump on. other than that = dead

[unborn iris]

Not from my experience.

[rapid flicker]

If carno has just a tiny bit of tracking skills. he will find you and kill you.

[unborn iris]

Carno in the woods vs a pachy?

[rapid flicker]

100% carno wins that

[unborn iris]

If you are not making that carno want to get out of those woods, you're not a good pachy.

Period.

[rapid flicker]

Have you ever tried ramming on uneven terrain?

[unborn iris]

I play pachy a good bit.

[rapid flicker]

which most jungle is filled with

Sure flat surface in woods = ez pz

but most jungle is on hills/ mountains. has tiny rocks (which you cant see)

all messes with hitbox

Back to topic -> carno nerf needed

[keen plover]

What nerfs though

[rapid flicker]

Turn radius 100%.

[keen plover]

which ones though, standing, trotting, running?

[rapid flicker]

running ofc

You could also say that carno is easy to grow and give some more difficulties early on, but that might be overkill

think turnradius is fine for now

[keen plover]

@hollow canyon So I found out that you can head fracture stegos at 75%, 3.5T

with a pachy

So it can either be light head fractures that heals instantly, or the fully dark screen ones

I didn't get leg fractured, but body fractured at 70%

[hollow canyon]

Nah, I'm talking about stunning not fracturing. You can fracture a fully grown stego same goes for Deino.

[keen plover]

Ah!

one second then

2.9T is the cutoff for stuns. At 3T you can swing instantly

so a 70% + stego can't be stunned

[keen plover]

After a bit more testing, I can confidently say that 70% appears to be the cut off, which is 3T something. Since 69% is also 3T

[hollow canyon]

Damn, that's waaay too high

I guess it doesn't matter all that much in the current game tbh, the only animal for which it would matter is Stego pretty much but still

this will definitely have to get changed

[keen plover]

So currently, pachy pairs could technically hunt allo sized playables

[hollow canyon]

Pachy stunning the likes of Allo, Maia and Alberto is just... a joke

[keen plover]

Yeah, and it does it well

Literally multiple free hits within that frame as a group

[hollow canyon]

it probably won't really matter in the foreseeable future to be perfectly honest

[keen plover]

Yeah

[hollow canyon]

we're not getting any such large animals in within presumably the next two years

but it still seems to be done with a complete lack of foresight

[keen plover]

It needs a nerf next patch

Since hunting such large stegos isn't fair

[wise sparrow]

Do you really think the devs use any foresight?

[keen plover]

you know what's funny, let me send it in a bit

ok so 0% carnos can charge a pachy head on and although die, body fracture the pachy. While at 20% (158kg) you can survive the head on charge as juvi carno while fracturing the pachy

Although you have a head fracture

and about half health

[hollow canyon]

Why in the world does Carno fracture anything in the first place is my question

[hasty coyote]

Don’t forget that interaction can also break both of their legs, which is instant death for the pachy

[keen plover]

really???

WTF

This game lol

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, it’s random too

It’s like uneven ground and lag

[hasty coyote]

Personally like the interaction, it’s a trade. Rewards carno for hitting charge and pachy for hitting ram. You both lose your attacks and normally ends the fight. But if you’re alone, then it’s bad because you also have less stam and the carno can run you down with a broken face still.

[wise sparrow]

Remember how the devs were so exited to tell us how fractures wouldn't be RNG?

And how cool and in depth the diet system would be?

And how after update 3, updates would come much faster?

And how we were promised redwoods and an entire new region of the map for U4?

I'm starting to see a pattern

[old hull]

if you rewind back to the beginning of evrima to now , i would say about 90% of what the devs told us were straight up lies

if anything 90% is too low

[wise sparrow]

Like I dont want to be overly negative but, I honestly dont see this game going anywhere at this rate

[old hull]

remember when deinosuchus was supposed to cator to the "hardcore players" and it was gonna super difficult to grow and play , litterally the easiest thing to grow in the isles history

its not even being negative its just being real , we have every right be distrust their word and their ability to give us a good game

but hey , prove me wrong cuz nothing would make me happier lol

[wise sparrow]

Mfw a small group of people working on their first game pump out 2 major, actually quality updates in the time it takes TI devs to release 3 hotfixes

[old hull]

its amusing to me that BoB is the laughing stock of the dino games when they have the most consistant update times and their updates are almost always fully functional

[wise sparrow]

BoB only struggles with a horrid community. But even that is getting better

[hasty coyote]

I put an X on it because in the second sentence they want nothing to 1v1 it. If it’s just poor wording and they mean nothing can 1v1 it currently, then I’d put a check. If nothing can 1v1 carno, then what are we supposed to do? Tenos have no way to escape other than fighting off the carno. Pachy should be using the break and run strat, but even that is nearly impossible alone. If the carno is competent, then it’s gg ez pachy dead

[old hull]

i still dont get what people hate about pachy being able to kill a carno , why does it have to run , if the carno plays like an idiot and gets his leg broken , by all means let the pachy finish it

[keen plover]

You can still kill bad carnos

Depends what bad means though tbf

[old hull]

for sure ya , ive done it plenty but theres a group of people who just haaate that pachy can even kill carno at all

they want it nerfed so badly that it has no choice but to always run away

[keen plover]

That's stupid then

[wise sparrow]

Mostly because the devs have a dumb system of "fracture or no fracture". That means that pachy either never hits a fracture or almost always does which leads to fights either being heavily in the pachy's favor or the carnos

[keen plover]

if you're on the same "skill" level, the carno should win in a fight to the death

Using 'skill' in this game like it's a shooter lol

[old hull]

the fracture really is wonky as hell , i would prefer it to less rng bs and just be a solid amount of hits = fracture

like if you want 2 pachy rams to break a carno leg 100% , not just swinging and pray you break its leg randomly

it being random makes it annoying for both parties , carnos will feel like its unfair when it happens in 1 hit , pachys will feel its unfair when they ram it 3-4 times and still no broken leg

[hasty coyote]

The fracture is not random, it is locational. That patch they made actually did help pachies break legs on carnos a lot more consistently. I would HATE for it to be just dumbed down to X hits means Y break. Completely ruins any skill I have built up aiming for the head and legs.

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I understand both sides. I mostly play pachy and love to kill bad carnos. But I would hate to be a carno and get killed because the pachy landed a leg break first. I do like it being a “break and run” in a 1v1, but if the carno doesn’t know how to fight well, then a pachy can skill issue it to death

It’s just that the “break and run” doesn’t work currently because a break can be hard, it isn’t impactful enough, and you can’t run

[old hull]

pretty much yeah

[white cove]

@cyan radish maybe just make Z walk not leave tracks?

saves team from making new anims

[cyan radish]

Yeah that would work too!

[hollow canyon]

btw would you have a clip by any chance?

[hollow canyon]

Ty

[keen plover]

all good

[rapid flicker]

He means nothing can beat carno in a 1v1.

[alpine plover]

@hollow canyon If Carno shouldn't ambush, how should it hunt as a predator

[lapis wave]

Like a cheetah

[alpine plover]

uhhh

a Cheetah is an ambush predator

It's got about 20-30 seconds of run time before it gasses out

[lapis wave]

ambush when you have the opportunity but mostly run things down and ram them to stun then kill them

Carno is only Dino in evrima that has acceleration from crouched stance. Hide until your close enough then launch and chase them down

most players don’t though, they mostly runaround in the open shouting here I am

[alpine plover]

Okay

I think the issue is just how the normal bite functions in this game

[lapis wave]

Yea they sort of bite downwards. I try to line up prey at the bottom of the neck and usually it hits

[alpine plover]

Right now, Carno can move at maximum speed/drifting while zipping by doing damage
This makes hit and run tactics work, but they shouldn't be as effective as they are in terms of raw damage. This is why Utah's normal bite was nerfed. With proper timing, you could solo Teno's just from headshots

I believe normal bite should be reworked on average for carnivores as a utility to "catch" prey rather than be super effective as the main source of damage, or be outright useless like Utah's

The quick bite should inflict a "slow" effect briefly on targets. Meant for catching or harassing prey in hunts

[fresh laurel]

so wait they nerf Utah bite this heavily due to hit and runs yet let Carno the fastest mid tier bite be this good for hit and runs?

[lapis wave]

I could get behind that for some Dino but they all have different builds and intended play styles

[alpine plover]

True, some types like brawler carnivores could keep a "crushing" bite as it is now for ambush hunting purposes

[fresh laurel]

I mean though if it were up to me I would let biting be a main source of dmg for some carnivores while making their rmb or something complement said bite like venom for troodon

[alpine plover]

Yeah, I imagine it was because of Utah's optimizing the mechanics too well

[fresh laurel]

but Carnos can technically do it better due to speed right?

I mean you would probably hit the tail only because of Carno size

[alpine plover]

Carno does high bite damage, with zero stam cost, with high speed

[fresh laurel]

but against Utah I found a bit easier to deal with hit and runs at times

[lapis wave]

Carno can’t turn for shit so makes some sense that when it connects it should do decent dmg

[fresh laurel]

Carno main dmg is ramming and not exactly biting though

[alpine plover]

ramming?

[fresh laurel]

But I think we can agree on nerfing carno bleed a bit so it doesnt bother bleeding things out instead

[fresh laurel]

I thought it was obvious but I mean charge lol

[lapis wave]

Zig zag and frequent direction change makes it pretty tough for a carno

[fresh laurel]

Except for tail hits being so weirdly high

You can still kill stuff from pure tail shots sadly

like aim for the base of the tail to do decent dmg...