balance-feedback-discussion

[hollow canyon]

Can't... write... proper... feedback... with... this... many.... characters...

[dusky surge]

anguish

[hollow canyon]

I didn't even get to utah

goddamn Carno is so fat it took like almost the entire message and I didn't even get into details about it

And also didn't get to post what I'd propose as a solution for the megapacking problem

[minor zealot]

megapacking wont be as much of a problem once more dinos get into this game. since theres very little dino options, there tends to be megapacks

[sinful cove]

I had to cut so much from my scent system feedback cus of the character limit too

[hollow canyon]

that is absolutely true, but as it is we need something to deal with it I think

and Carno is this really awkward animal considering the roster

if Utahs or Pachys end up overpacking... it's not that big of a deal I guess?

But when you have a dedicated small game hunter added with a roster full of small animals

I mean... that's just asking for trouble

[minor zealot]

oh nono utahs are scary when overpackin

the bleeds wack

[hollow canyon]

I mean yea, I've ran into a pack of like 20 yesterday, damn my Tenonto died after killing only like 1 or 2

[minor zealot]

lol yea

in due time itll be fixed when more dinos come out. i guess if they add a small mechanic for now? but itll just get annoying later on when playin

who knows

[hollow canyon]

I don't think this mechanic would necessarily be annoying, it would basically just stop people from going over the limits

even when we have a larger roster

I wouldn't want e.g. to run into a pack of 10 Carnos or 10 Deinos

such large groups are just unhealthy and kind of even immersion breaking

[minor zealot]

true. but thats why u make yer own mega pack

and go into war

[hollow canyon]

it's not like these people would be getting punished for grouping at all, it's just about keeping them within reasonable numbers

I'd personally eventually throw this at Carno, Deino and Stego, these are the three animals that really shouldn't be going over those limits

I'd start with Carno first simply because it's by far the most oppressive thing when it gets into large numbers

[minor zealot]

for stegos. an overpacked utah group is more scary than an overpacking carno groupo

[hollow canyon]

oh no doubt about that but Stego itself is a big problem when it starts moving around in a flock of 5+

[minor zealot]

lol yea, everyone is overpacking due to others overpackin. for now tbh i dont care bout large overpacks, i just run for my life or kill them with my own group

[hollow canyon]

I do care about overpacks because it kind of limits the fun in the game for me in all the honesty

I really enjoy fighting Carnos on my Teno but that only works in a 1v1 or maybe 1v2 scenario

[minor zealot]

yea, we'll just have to wait and see wat the devs do

[hollow canyon]

when there's like 5 of them it's just... I either don't go there at all and have to skip on the fun of fighting them or I do go there knowing that I will have to regrow my Teno(and tbh I typically choose the second option)

[fresh laurel]

I brought 20 Utahs to oasis once...

we scared away everything but deinos oof

[minor zealot]

lmao thats just funny

[fresh laurel]

carnos didnt even try lmao

[minor zealot]

i would love to see that as a carno

would plow through yall and run away

[fresh laurel]

I mean i did 2v1 a carno as utahs

[minor zealot]

nice

[fresh laurel]

2 utah vs one carno is very doable

1 utah vs 2 carnos is possible i think

[minor zealot]

yea they just gotta fix the gosh damn pounce

try to pounce someone and end up floating infront of a carnos face

[fresh laurel]

fixes pounce
Proceeds to break when they fix spawning in as juvie utah bug

[minor zealot]

[fresh laurel]

remember pouncing something and you go under the map while pouncing?

then you let go letting you return to the surface but this caused you not to know where to jump off from...

[minor zealot]

didnt experience dat one

but yikes

[fresh laurel]

happened to me a lot lmao

think it caused your utah to run tilted

[minor zealot]

i love the current deino bug tho. when ya drown someone they dissapear and then they fall from the sky. saw a bb stegos flying down into a river from a mile away lmfao

[fresh laurel]

happened to me as utah...

I fell then lived but flew up again and died LMAO

[minor zealot]

they rlly gotta start doing more frequent hot fixes

[fresh laurel]

question whats the big pros to upgrading to unreal 5?

and could unreal 5 finally improve performance...

[minor zealot]

my brother could probs answer that but Idk shit bout developing games

[fresh laurel]

but unreal 5 fixing pounce breaking every patch? ayo

prob wont work like that but one can hope ig

[dusky surge]

the engine could literally be 10 years old and run on spaghetti, it doesn't matter if the engine is newer or shinier, all that matters is the developer's ability to understand, utilise and abide to the abilities and limitations of the engine

Titanfall 2 and Apex Legends were made in Source Engine, the same shit Half Life 2 and Portal were made in

[fresh laurel]

woah

so the isle could run on unreal 3

[dusky surge]

i know very little about Unreal

[lone hamlet]

@spring dawn actually stun while charging into a wall or something too heavy as carno is a brilliant idea to encourage using it more wisely

[spring dawn]

It would only make sense that carno should be stunned for the same amount of time, or perhaps even fall over. Right now carno is such a brain dead dino - W and LMB ftw. Teno needs stam for kick, slam, and claw, while carno only needs stam for ramming.

[elder steppe]

Yeah, I played teno yesterday and got tracked down by a pack if raptors 3 min flat. When they found me i just kinda flailed around until i decided to snackrifice myself to a croc. Didnt want to die because of the broken tracking. I definitely need more practice with the teno though. Does the slow walk make steps appear less frequently for tracking dinos?

[spring dawn]

No, I believe it has the same effect sadly. And it's kind of upsetting to see how much the game caters to carnivores over small and mid-tier herbivores.

[lone hamlet]

I find that good teno players are able to get out of these situations but for most players it just seems unfair how bad you can defend yourself from anything

[lone hamlet]

also agree on this

[elder steppe]

Yeah, if the tracking wasnt so broken, i could see more people playing herbivores. I was in game literally 3 min after spawning and got ganked. Dont know how to really fight as a teno yet, but the tracking is crazy. I think everything should start having diet at 25-30% growth. I think that would make the game a bit harder for everyone, but also give everyone the same chance at getting adult

[spring dawn]

Thing is, people complained about oasis being too packed. Because, yeah, if people can drink from somewhere where they won't get snatched (and wasting up to 3 hours of growth time just because some people like to play crocodile and get a kill every time), you bet your ass they'll choose to drink where it's safe! Hell, even growing a pachy, which is what, 90 minutes? I don't want to waste my time spent surviving and growing that thing.

80% of the playerbase plays carnivore. If there's no incentive to playing (smaller) herbivores, why even bother? Why spend your time being a meal on wheels? Pachy was perfect in U4. Now it's not viable - nerfing its agility combined with having to run from one end to another just to complete your diet, and therefore being a very easy snack for the 80% of people playing carnivore (who can be assured to always find a pack, because ... Like I stated, 80% plays carnivore!)

Another thing is - no one is complaining about the carnivores camping food spawns. Nor complaining about the carnivores mass killing, despite having plenty of bodies around to eat. Just now I ran into a mix pack of carnos and utahs mass murdering everything around, despite having 5 or so utah bodies, 2 carno bodies, 1 teno, 1 pachy, 1 dryo, etc etc ...

[elder steppe]

I agree, oasis was way too much if a hotspot. I saw someone suggest that herbis have more diet option, but that the secondary diet options dont give as much nutrients as the core diet options. I thought that was kinda cool

[spring dawn]

That might make life a lot easier ...
But about hotspots - there will ALWAYS be hotspots. Take NW and dam by swamp now. It's always gonna be an issue

[elder steppe]

This was the suggestion. #general-feedback message

Yeah hotspot will always be an issue. I think they really got rid if the oasis one because the scare factor(crocs) coildnt get to it. Thats why they removed the river through jungle gulley, it was shallow the whole way. So there was no scare factor for drinking

Could be wrong though

[spring dawn]

Deino is really just problematic lol

[elder steppe]

Yeah, but you cant argue the pants shitting scare when one lunges you outta nowhere

[spring dawn]

That's true! And the annoyance of losing 3 hours of your time

[elder steppe]

Lol thats just the way it is when losing a dino. Just gotta truck on.

[elder steppe]

@robust edge bruh, deino isnt supposed to hunt on land anyway, have you ever seen a crocodile chase down a gazelle. It doesnt make any sense

[robust edge]

I don't mean on land

I mean give deino a speed boost in the water so that it can keep up with animals that are on land

To make up for the fact that we are heavily restricted in where we can go, and often have to take the long way around

[elder steppe]

Oh my bad, but i still disagree just for the one fact i cant imagine deinos speedboatin through a river. I understand where your comin from though

[robust edge]

Modern crocs leave a wake when going fast, deino should be able to go at least that fast

I'll reword my suggestion though

[elder steppe]

Yeah, i think thats why it got disliked so fast, but i understand you

[somber sphinx]

@faint swallow (sry for the ping) nerfing stegos blood pool would be better because Utah is a bleeder and that’s the way they kill their prey

[sinful cove]

LMAO choking and vomiting debuff for eating juvis??

If some dumb shit like that gets added im still gonna kill juvi carnis anyway

And stegos too because why not, why should juvis be safe?

[thorn sinew]

They’re small and helpless
I get what they’re trying to get it, it’s infuriating for assholes to just run up and kill you when they’re at full hunger or when there’s food around
Goes for both juvies and any other helpless creature like Ptera or Utah

[hollow canyon]

I see absolutely 0 reason not to eat a juvie Utah as a fully grown Carno. Does it give much food and nutrients? Not really, but it's always something, I see no reason to pass up on a free meal like that.

[covert cave]

and it prevents an adult from existing

[elder steppe]

Yeah, this is survival of the fittest man, the babies are usually the first to get eaten when not protected by their parents

[sinful cove]

Survival game

[elder steppe]

[sinful cove]

It benefits me to reset the growth timer of somebody who might be a nuisance or threat when they get bigger

Also it’s entertaining

[fresh laurel]

and then my pack mates ask why i go out of my way to kill juvie stegos

[sinful cove]

I always hear juvi stegos broadcasting they need to learn to stop and thats one way lol

[fresh laurel]

I remember hunting a juvie stego and we got into a chase and it still one called for the stego it heard miles away LMAO

[thorn sinew]

True
They think they’ll meet a friend
But no
It’s the jaws of their enemy

[fresh laurel]

make carnivores hear farther than herbis ayo?

[sinful cove]

Lmao do they think their big slow ol lard bucket friend is gonna get there in time

[fresh laurel]

Nah they just think they're fast enough to get to them lmao

[sinful cove]

Dont really see a reason for this survival-wise

If anyone should have better hearing it should be flighty low hp animals like dryo, utah, hypsi, compy

[fresh laurel]

I just said it cus I remember one stream of a dev talking about making trike have trouble seein behind or its side thx to its frill

[sinful cove]

Not faction restricted either, herbis are already shafted on scent qol

[fresh laurel]

Would better hearing mean sounds are louder to you?

if so I would really want foot sounds to get the big sound increase

[sinful cove]

It could yeah, louder footsteps and calls

[fresh laurel]

I want herbis to be able to smell if a carnivore was in the location or something but not actually track it and to let them walk while sniffing for food and etc

[fresh laurel]

if you said calls then its time for me to go ptera and ruin utah day

[sinful cove]

Like deer, theyll hear you step on a wet leaf a hundred feet away and haul ass lol

[sinful cove]

[fresh laurel]

Imagine hearing distant carno walking a mile from you LMAO

boom congrats you avoided a carno

[sinful cove]

might make predators wanna be less loud and obnoxious when looking for food too

[fresh laurel]

rate this idea

[sinful cove]

and automaticlaly makes people playing those small flighty animals more jumpy if every step they hear is a bit amplified

[sinful cove]

just letting them smell shit in a radius would probably do well enough since it doesnt reveal a whole path like carni scent does

[fresh laurel]

But wouldnt that confuse people or something

[sinful cove]

probably not if they get used to the new volumes

from playing those animals often enough

[fresh laurel]

like you thought you just heard a giant apex trying to run towards you only to see its in the distance running for cover

Would be cool if different dinos had better vision than others ngl...

[sinful cove]

probably only takes a few good runs of playing a small animal to get used to new volumes

would be cool if certain predators could focus in to kinda zoom their camera. nothing to do with render distance, but to help them inspect people from a distance better

[fresh laurel]

imagine something like a stego being a strong as hell hitter but its toned right due to its vision causing less accuracy

[sinful cove]

i could see quetz and rex having something like the zoom

[fresh laurel]

Rex being able to zoom in things miles away to the point its like its next to said target...

[sinful cove]

having worse vision on some animals might be annoying

[sinful cove]

bit over the top lol spectator mode rex standing on a hill

[fresh laurel]

admins would love it (real)

[sinful cove]

"hey admin i spotted a cheater way over there across the river, past those palm trees behind that rock up over that hill"

[fresh laurel]

"and inside the cav-"

[sinful cove]

rex on a hill spectator mode > ptera spectator mode

[fresh laurel]

I can imagine a rex saying that with a British polite accent

[sinful cove]

i see rex with a more gravely australian accent

[fresh laurel]

rex with vision like that would be best stream sniper ngl

[sinful cove]

lol i can already see how toxic it could be

[fresh laurel]

now should I grow carno or ootah....

[sinful cove]

utah cus carno is cancer

[fresh laurel]

carno is pretty op i heard

[sinful cove]

its hells easy to grow and easy to fight with

plus you control all the confrontations

[fresh laurel]

so why utah at this point

[sinful cove]

morality

though playing carnos and eating all the other juvi carnos is a good cause as well

[fresh laurel]

how bout carno then utah if i die

[hollow canyon]

If you're playing solo Carno is better, it's not reliant on a pack for the most part

[rancid bluff]

utah can 1v1 stegs if skilled

[fresh laurel]

I need to see a vid of that during update 4.5

[rancid bluff]

there's plenty, but I'm playing ava rn so can't send atm

[rancid bluff]

I have this though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruVGCzetnQ

[fresh laurel]

wait what

[rancid bluff]

there's quite a few of these videos out there

[sinful cove]

seeing these clips makes it amazing how people still ask for more ptera stam lol

[fresh laurel]

Pov. You asked for Deino to stay underwater longer even after its whole map dedicated buff

[sinful cove]

theres so many bushes deinos can surface in to get air lol

[fresh laurel]

imagine what this ptera could do against a utah or carno...

[sinful cove]

pterminator

[rancid bluff]

carno's a thought, but utah can jump and knock ptera out of the sky

a leg fractured utah on the other hand

we need a :ptroll: emote for times like this

[fresh laurel]

[rancid bluff]

imagine if ptera could dive down really fast and give fracture damage
BoB ptera gameplay

[fresh laurel]

Imagine if ptera couldnt be knocked out of the air

[rancid bluff]

Dondi: Ptera will 1 shot deino to the head
Ptera nerfs:

[fresh laurel]

wait what

no way...

[rancid bluff]

he said that once, it didn't happen though

[fresh laurel]

lmao

[rancid bluff]

but if it did

[fresh laurel]

ptera is balanced cus it can solo anything ingame

even utah if get gud

[rancid bluff]

it's a better matchup against stego than deino

although attacking carnivores can be risky cause if you peck their head you risk being bitten

[fresh laurel]

aim for the body or tail gg

[rancid bluff]

tail is useless, body is meh, what about the neck

[fresh laurel]

OH SH-

[fresh laurel]

weird fact of the day

utah can get a lil past 50% grown before needing water...

[hollow canyon]

That Pteranodon vs Stego clip is just distgusting, tbh the Tenonto there could've I guess tried to help it since they were seemingly packing up together, Teno can actually counter Pteranodon by standing in its way and hopping up when Ptera goes for the peck, I've knocked Pteras out of the air that way before

[sinful cove]

some herbivore players travel together for safety in numbers without actualy involving themselves, so not surprised

its like how somebody gets stabbed on a subway and everyone else just watches

[hollow canyon]

I guess? I'm not sure what was going on there but it seemed to be like they were packing together

I don't pack with other herbivore species in general

but I am merciful enough not to murder them on sight as a herbivore

[thorn sinew]

Same here
I have the same thing with mixpacking
They can hang around, I just won’t help them. If they help me, then I kill them.

[golden coral]

@stone glenThat would be incredily unbalanced, since deino would have to have about 900 base damage to kill stego on body like that, and even more if you want it to work on tail (something like 1300 base damage). As for head, you already kill a stego in 6(7) hits, so you can take one 2v1 with almost no problem. Even 1v1 is doable if the stego isn't that good and the deino is. Deino is not meant to hunt adult stegos in the first place at that, and as long as the stego is below 76% or so, you can still grab and drown them in one go.

[stone glen]

But deino should hunt adult stegos right now because stego in its diet and u can't find another than adult. And when deino 1v2 with stego usually one croc die. So 3 is ok.

[white cove]

I mean, you can find them as nonadults. They gotta drink

And as erik said, you can kill them with just 1 if you're skilled, 2 if you're not terrible. If you can't manage the hunt then find another way to get that singular part of your diet

[stone glen]

Lol 1v1 adult stego? On land?

[white cove]

I watched an adult deino do it today by third partying 2 utahs fighting a stego. I took a screenshot and posted it to #evrima-na

Yesterday* mb

[stone glen]

But with uthas. So steg can't lay to heal far from water.

That is not "1v1"

[white cove]

Utahs left after 1 died

[golden coral]

You're not supposed to hunt on land as deino. And with 1v2, you should be fine, but yes, it's risky prey if you aren't well coordinated. In any case, adding that much more biteforce to deino to get the result you want, wouldn't work very well.

[white cove]

Kill baby stegos or find another risk free way for that nutrient

Or risk it for the biscuit and fight an adult stego, more often than not the risk will not pay off but that's OK because if you're fighting where you should be then you can disengage and escape whenever the fight stops going your way

[hasty coyote]

Or just grab a sub-80% stego

[white cove]

And if you decide to take the fight somewhere you can't disengage? GG, here's your darwin award and a character select screen to think about what you've done

[stone glen]

Ye, just find it first

[white cove]

Well, seeing as deino currently has 0 counterplay for things <4 tons I think it's okay that the only challenge to the kill is finding it

[wet sleet]

0 counterplay? Wtf? People play blindfolded and without reaction time?

[stone glen]

I idk, but never saw that 1 or 2 crocs defeat adult stego. Mb i just didn't see, but i usually ser that 3 deino bite stego from 3 sides about 3-4 times and than stego just run away in bushes. Idk, mb increase dmg isnt the best solution. But anyway, stego is op and must be nerfed until big land predators will come. Mb increase tail attack stam cost or make it slower.

[wet sleet]

Stego is fine, combat-wise. It does need a nerf on the hunger /diet side though.

[stone glen]

"Until big land predators will come"

It needs a nerf right now

[wet sleet]

No it doesn't. You aren't supposed to easily kill it in combat.

What it needs is significantly higher difficult to keep alive, yes, but not in terms of combat performance.

[stone glen]

Not easy, but i just supposed to kill it other way than with 100433773 deinos

[wet sleet]

Utahs.

Also Stego needs to be hit much harder by diets, so it can't just form large herds and spend 80% of its time "fishing".

[stone glen]

Yeah, but not only them. I mean deino is apex too, so when 3 deinos (each one are larger than stego) cant kill 1 steg it s kinda strange imao

[wet sleet]

You mean 3 Deinos out of water. That's a significant difference.

[golden coral]

No because it's how deino is designed, if it didn't have that stupid one-shot lunge, it'd be easier to argue that it should be able to hunt bigger things. But really, deino should probably not hunt big things, it's not going to go well for it against a spino either so.

[wet sleet]

The only carnivore who is designed to hunt bigger things as of now is Utah.

But getting hunted should not be the issue with "apex herbivores". It should be finding enough food. Just like it works irl.

[white cove]

Maybe if deino's carrying weight was reduced and some kind of tug of war type mechanic was added for animals <2 tons instead of insta death

then I could be okay with that being added to stego to reduce its dominance, maybe not a tug of war a full stam deino could come even close to winning against a full stam stego, but punish them for wasting stam at the water's edge

flipside would be that 1/4 stam deinos cant guarantee a kill on a full stam teno/carno either

[white cove]

Also I just watched this stego get killed by a utah pack, I believe this to be a bug as I have been informed they are completely unkillable?

[azure crescent]

@stone glen deino DOES kill a stego with 5 alt bites to the head though???
its alt bite does around 700 damage, which on a stego’s head is 1400, and that means that a stego dies with 4,2 alt bites to the head

[dusky surge]

alt-bite doesn't do 700 damage what

[sudden orbit]

alt bite doesnt even oneshot utah i dont think

[dusky surge]

well thats also wrong

[sudden orbit]

is it?

hm okay im wrong then

[dusky surge]

that would mean alt-bite does less than base bite

which i can assure you, it does not

[sudden orbit]

wait i thought deino cannot oneshot utah with a bite?

[dusky surge]

it can

[sudden orbit]

since when?

[dusky surge]

since... update 3.75

[sudden orbit]

Huh...

[dusky surge]

when utah's health was lowered to 450

[sudden orbit]

ohh that one, right

[azure crescent]

how much does it do then

[dusky surge]

as far as i know, the same as normal bite

also, if we do the stats, deino does not kill a stego in 5 bites to the head, but it does in 6

[azure crescent]

i wouldnt say thats that big of a difference honestly

[golden coral]

Technically 7 with healing, but 6 + minimal healing = just bite anywhere else except maybe on the tip of the tail :p

[dusky surge]

yea which is why the suggestion is somewhat silly

[sudden orbit]

Oh look, I literally just withnessed 2 carnos take out a stego because they played well. One carno died but the other finished the job

and hes going for the second steg too!

[dusky surge]

you know what... you're right

[sudden orbit]

the stego played bad and kept swinging their tail all the time wasting their stam

[dusky surge]

it technically is 7

since healing is constant

[wise sparrow]

I'm sorry, 2 stegos lost to 2 carnos?

[sudden orbit]

one steg, the other just showed up

2 more showed up in fact one steg lost to 2 carnos

[wise sparrow]

Still, 2 carnos?

[sudden orbit]

yup they timed their attacks, went for headshots and the steg player was shit

[hasty coyote]

I have seen a stego nearly lose a 1v1 to a carno

[golden coral]

It can happen yes :p Stegos are powerful, but they're not as invincible as deino is overall :p

[stone glen]

That's right, but where you saw my claims to uthas and where i said that they cannot kill stego? I was writing about deino and my feedback is about deinos. Not uthas.

So why u just writing about em?

[golden coral]

I think it's mostly that we're pointing out that stegos can be taken out by other things, so deinos don't neccesarily need to also kill them

Besides, it's perhaps for the better if deinos get used to not attacking bigger things, it's only going to get worse from stego up when it comes to apexes xD

[wise sparrow]

Stego can actually be killed by land animals.

Deino literally cant.

If stego didn't kill deino then deino would be waltzing on land without a care in the world.

Deino vs stego is literally just a dps race.
Neither parties have any mobility so you have to stat stick.

Since stego has more damage, stego will win.

[sudden orbit]

ive seen a deino 1v1 a steg

its possible to stun a steg as a deino if the steg is near water

"grabbing" a steg stuns them for a few seconds

[stone glen]

Mb u are right, but in future there will be deinocheirus and spino in rivers too. Well, they are big boys, so as u said we should not mess with em and just run in wate.... Stop, but they r semi-aquatic too. So we can't run and we need to face big guys.

[dusky surge]

if a deino cant outswim an oversized wading bird and a mutant spino, there's a problem

[stone glen]

Yep

[wise sparrow]

Imo deino isn't really an apex when compared to the rest of the apexes.
Stat wise? Yes.
But its kit just causes it to get outperformed un regular fights by even psuedo apexes

[dusky surge]

It is an apex by definition

[stone glen]

So make deino/spino and deinocheir/deinosuchus possible to 1v1 or idk how deino should survive

[dusky surge]

It has no real predator. I do not count spino because spino seems much more like a slow, lumbering territorial beast than some kind of quick-footed fast-swimming hunter

[sudden orbit]

it oneshots anything under 4 tons.... do people not realize its not supposed to be a bruiser?

[dusky surge]

deino can outswim them? Cherius isn't even a swimmer, it's a wader

[wise sparrow]

Honestly we have far to many apexes.
We literally have 3 apex/psuedo apex carnivores that inhabit one fucking biome

[stone glen]

Devs said that it ll spend much time in water

[dusky surge]

it's still a wader

it sits in shallow water

it and deinosuchus literally are rarely going to meet

[stone glen]

Ok, anyway we dont know to much about deinocheir, so ll see

[dusky surge]

we do know it's a wader. It's probably going to struggle to even catch a deino swimming away from it

i doubt it'd even be able to dive like deino honestly

[golden coral]

You swim faster, you swim away from spino. Or so it's been said at least.

[wise sparrow]

Spino doesn't even look built for water so deino will definitely be faster than it

[sudden orbit]

outside of water sure, but deino is supposed to be in the water

[stone glen]

Just if rivers will change cuz now they r too low and tight to escape another semi

[wise sparrow]

Yea, so it's faster in water.

Deino is just a flawed playable imo.

It needs the entire map to cater to it.

It is hell to balance with the ability to delete half the roster by pressing right click.

Its entire existence is invalidated by literally any disconnected pond.

And more

[sudden orbit]

id agree with that

deino is uh... a special pancake

i hate how because of deino we cannot have small streams, lakes or ponds

absoluteley hate it. heck even a puddle would kill them

[stone glen]

Ye i think so too

[keen plover]

There isn’t any other semi aquatics in the game like that yet

[wise sparrow]

Deino either needs a heavy rework or to be completely removed

[stone glen]

To add some abilities or how rework? Make it bigger/smaller or wha?

Im so idk about deino too

[keen plover]

I personally can’t wait for shallows again

[stone glen]

Oh, right , we r talking about semi-aquatic, but there is still a sucho.... Lol..

[stone glen]

The wont i think cuz then deino cant ambush enough

[white cove]

Deino players will need to get used to swimming around instead of pressing H on a riverbank and grabbing a pretzel or smthin

[keen plover]

They will need to, since they even have concepts for shallow waters. Would be odd if every water source is deep enough for deinos to be around

[dusky surge]

shallows aren't bad, just not great with how our current semi-aquatic ecosystem is, which consists of one (1) animal

[white cove]

Yeah im sure shallows will make a return, mayhaps not as abundant as previous

[dusky surge]

if we had sucho then maybe shallows would make more sense

[stone glen]

Lol and if all hotspots will not be empty? So what? Just running around the hole map to find another spino or duck (cheirus)?

[white cove]

What

[wise sparrow]

Some animals literally won't function without shallows.
But the thing is all of our waders aren't really fast enough to deny people shallow water.
So people would flock to shallows because no one wants to get insta killed by an invisible dino

[keen plover]

I mean, I’d rather take my chances with a sucho

[stone glen]

If i understand right, u said that we should move away from other apex

Instead of facing em

[wise sparrow]

People will do anything to avoid interacting with deino because its no fun having 3 hours deleted instantly

[white cove]

Yeah, it's a weird lack of self awareness that deino players hate not having agency in one avoidable matchup, whereas all other playables should just deal with being no counterplay'd

[keen plover]

Pretty much this. I want shallows just so I can avoid deinos and have 0 interactions with them

[white cove]

That's correct yes, deinos wont be able to fight spinos reliably

[hasty coyote]

One issue with deino is that there are too many of them. If they were rare then they could ambush easily.

But that will come once there are more Dinos to play and people spread out

[stone glen]

Hmmm, so idk... Mb other dino can just run outta water? Hm? And with rivers as they r now u just cannot escape

[wise sparrow]

Even utahs. It's a hour of your life wasted because funni croc.

An hour is not short.
No one wants to waste an hour of their life just to be deleted

[stone glen]

I mean deino living only in water

And if some danger ll be in water he cant run

So it should face it

[wise sparrow]

Deino mains when there is a semi aquatic that can actually kill them

[hasty coyote]

Deino mains when beipi comes

[stone glen]

All this game about this. U will die from carno ram or from croc anyway

[white cove]

Yeah, they aren't handling a land apex well, semi aquatic apexes gonna blow their minds

[white cove]

I can dodge carno slam and hear it coming

[stone glen]

That is actually what im talking about

[white cove]

@stone glen go read this bit, what do you think about this suggestion

[hasty coyote]

Or just parry it like a pro

[white cove]

Gives a bit more agency to both sides

[keen plover]

If I die to a Carno, there are steps to avoiding it. With deino- you literally need to be so meta with the shit. Like using cheap glitches, going places that are far out and can’t support deinos, or just places they won’t be around- generally.

[white cove]

But it seems like deino players dont want to give agency to both sides, just become Lord Commander of the game

[wise sparrow]

A carno ambush takes some skill to set up. Needing to stay quiet, know where your prey is looking, know which foliage to go to, etc.

Deino just sits underwater and click once

[hasty coyote]

The issue with deino’s lunge, like real crocs, it’s kinda unfair. Either the croc gets to eat and the prey has no choice, or the prey gets to run and the croc starves.

[white cove]

Croc bite != 100% death though

[stone glen]

Ye, i think its ok. But for bigger animals like more than 3000 and up too 4000 kg

[white cove]

No, because then we're back to it being a straight up buff

Which deino does not need

[hasty coyote]

Not for everything, pachies can survive a hit sometimes, and carnos take 2-3.

[keen plover]

Growing a mid sized Dino just to be 1 shot to a deino 🙂can’t wait

[white cove]

!= means does not equal

[hasty coyote]

Ah ok

[stone glen]

Keep in mind that in future he will meet with other big dinos who live in the same biom and who s stronger than croco. It s not a strg, that we can avoid in water

[white cove]

Yep, the clinically easy life crocs have now is going to get more difficult

Same with stego once mid tiers show up

[stone glen]

We can travel around map and run from bigger, but most of rivers is dead end, so we cant really escape

If they will follow us

[white cove]

Doesn't mean it'll become impossible, but the dino that can no fun no counterplay delete <4 tons should be a bitch to grow and sustain, since they sure are an untenable pain in the ass for everything else on the roster rn

[stone glen]

Ye, about ur suggestion. Its kinda strange that deino 8 t that can easily take 1,8 t carno in mouth and grab should have some minigame

[white cove]

The lack of self awareness is astonishing. So if the big crocodile has limited counterplay it's calls for extreme buffs, but if the teno carno hypsi ptera utah dryo <80% stego has no counterplay when drinking but to pray that's fine?

[stone glen]

I understand if 3,5 and up to 4 will can

But not carno that is not even 2 t

[white cove]

Man, play something other than deino then come back to these suggestions

Spinos probably wont be able to dive after you as efficiently in deep water, boom. Now you can escape if you see them coming

[stone glen]

I was playing on 6~7 adult carnos and 3 adult tenos last 3 weeks. And didn't die from croc

[white cove]

That's

[stone glen]

Just never

[white cove]

A lot of isle

Oh 3 weeks

Good, i hope you get to keep it that way

[stone glen]

Because they re tonns of safe places to drink even after shallows nuked

[white cove]

Death by croc is one of the least fun experiences

[keen plover]

Yeah, just alt + f4

[stone glen]

I did feel it

[white cove]

Clearly not because you want them to be unstoppable on land too

[stone glen]

But u shouldnt drink in deep river lol

[dusky surge]

i actually think death by croc is pretty fucking cool but whatever. The suspense of drinking makes the entire activity so much cooler

[stone glen]

I dont want

Im not suggesting it to improve its water duration

For example

Or its stam on land

[white cove]

I disagree on the basis that there's nothing you can really do about it, but if they add some form of reward for your awareness like even some struggling minigame im down

Or like an option that double tapping S as soon as a croc breaks the surface you can dodge backwards idk

[dusky surge]

struggling minigame? i can't see a utah winning against a deino lmao

[stone glen]

Just DONT drink in deep rivers

[white cove]

Yeah, some things are just toast not much to be done about that

[white cove]

Just DONT fight the stegos

[stone glen]

As i said, there are many places

[dusky surge]

i cant see any of the existing roster doing much to escape a deino

[stone glen]

Where u can drink

[stone glen]

How if it s in my diet X'D

Delete it from my diet and i won't

[keen plover]

Drinking isn’t the issue, since there are a lot of ways to avoid deino. It’s the map that requires you to take detours around to avoid swimming across I personally don’t like. Guess I’ll have to wait for shallows and whatever map changes we get

[white cove]

But none are entitely safe anymore (save those 2 ponds on the coast) so it's always a gamble, whereas if a deino gets you it is never a gamble

[dusky surge]

cant you also eat utah and carno for that nutrient

[white cove]

Yeah, homie just wants norisk high reward

[keen plover]

Deinos chokehold up to 4T with 1 shotting ability makes me hope that the larger mid tiers don’t take too long to grow

[white cove]

Get the nutrient elsewhere or accept that you could die for it vs a stego. Accept that not all engagements for deino will be risk free

[stone glen]

Still have low parts of some rivers, ponds on coast, all south, shallows on swamps

[white cove]

Ah, forgot about swamp shallows

That you'll need to cross deep water to get to but w/e, deino player moment

[stone glen]

Yep, not so many crocs on swaps cuz it s really big

And a great amount of low places

O, and low river near the maps edge

[white cove]

Y'know I was against stegos being able to fish for deinos

But if this is what they're protecting us from

I may just bring them a pumpkin in this trying time

[stone glen]

And i just may bring a fresh 75% stego body for my croc mates :3

[dusky surge]

if you can kill one

[stone glen]

Yes

Or better carno, it s more common

[white cove]

You said earlier the only stegos you could find were adults

And that this was cause for sweeping deino buffs since being able to kill them didn't matter for that reason

[ocean wagon]

Shallows imo wouldn’t be bad if droughts were a thing

[dusky surge]

but they are not

[ocean wagon]

Right, “if”

[dusky surge]

they will be

[ocean wagon]

I’m going to cry if I see another “deino irl had a comparable bite to Rex, please let me face tank a stego so I can marinate in the brain dead gameplay of deinosaurus rex”

[dusky surge]

you will weep

[ocean wagon]

As if the isle is any way shape or form trying to mimic realism for dinosaurs or their irl stats

[dusky surge]

spoiler alert, it will never stop

[stone glen]

?? I said that stego should be easier to kill on deino because they r not even same size, but deino must attack it with 3 of em. Doesn't matter u buff deino or nerf stego.

[dusky surge]

my god, speak of the devil

[ocean wagon]

LMAO

[dusky surge]

well, have fun crying billy

[ocean wagon]

NO WAY

[dusky surge]

literal perfect timing

[ocean wagon]

My guy, deino literally just got a whole ass MAP BUFF what more do you want. Anything that isn’t a stego will die in 2-3 hits to a deino

[white cove]

It's on my diet this means i should be able to facetank it gg go next

[dusky surge]

diet = ezclap

[ocean wagon]

No diff

[dusky surge]

this is why utah should be allowed to touch stego and it instantly melts

transforms to naught but edible mush

[white cove]

Deino players after asking for shallows to be removed then getting that and a new connecting river that lets them be anywhere

https://tenor.com/view/now-i-want-more-herbet-more-family-guy-now-i-want-gif-21415623

[dusky surge]

deino players try not to go against the one animal in the game which can easily dish out over 1000 damage per attack as a giant slow fucking gator challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[ocean wagon]

And it’s not like stego is 100% safe, a group of 2 deinos can literally do their beloved face tank no brain strategy to kill it

[dusky surge]

BUT THEY TAKE DAMAGE

ONE OF THEM COULD DIE EVEN

[white cove]

Deino players trying not to attack the dangling spiky lure sitting on one side of the wideass river and just going around it as it poses no danger to you at all if you just go 30 feet down stream

[dusky surge]

deinos are literally fucking fish. Thagomizers are the hooks of bait

[ocean wagon]

Honestly at this point

I find it hard that actual humans with brains play this. The point of this game is for it to be a survival game that pushes you sharpen your skills to survive in a harsh environments. If you’re able to literally just legacy Rex spam bite something to death WHATS THE POINT

[dusky surge]

i cant wait for deinos to continue to complain about their situation moments after drowning an allo, a sub-rex, a fresh-adult sucho, one-tapping a pair of utahraptors, an alberto, 2 ceras and a handful of barys

[dusky surge]

reason being: went out into the middle of the plains and died to 2 stegos who saw a dimwit deino and beat it to death for its arrogance

[ocean wagon]

Know what? Buff stego damage to 5000 damage per hit on the head of a deino. A deino should not be able to survive a 3 foot long thagomizer being plunged into its head through the eye socket from a stego.

Since rEaLiSm

[white cove]

I actually have an unironic suggestion for deino "realism" players

make it so that when deino is underwater it's vision of the surface is as distorted as everything else's vision of the water

then to hunt as deino you gotta have your eyes above the water just like crocs irl c:

[ocean wagon]

Make it so deinos are damn near blind because gators irl have terrible underwater vision

[white cove]

I'd hate for things to not be realistic and all

[hasty coyote]

Make it so all the dinos are dead or severely deformed. We can’t clone Dino so we need the realism.

[white cove]

https://tenor.com/view/frank-castle-wait-please-stop-please-no-please-gif-21133188

[ocean wagon]

[dusky surge]

tbf, that's a very silly argument because some variants of deino potentially OUTWEIGH our current deino

[white cove]

it's a silly argument for anyone to be making about any playable

[stone glen]

Yes. because Deino is not a Utahraptor or even a land predator. I can't dodge and run fast, so I just have to be a tank. Apparently it's my fault, sorry. next time I will try not to use my favorite tactics and I will run around the stego.

[ocean wagon]

Just for clarification, you did choose to fight that land apex on land as a semi aquatic, right?

[stone glen]

Ok, cool idea, but u must no reactin on the deino head near u. Because it s how it irl.

[stone glen]

Can deino 1v1 stego that comes to water - prob yes. Can it do like this in plains where steg can just walking around me - no.

[white cove]

oh ho ho, now hyperrealism isn't all it's cracked up to be because we must consider other player's fun?

It's like you hit the point then just ignore it

[stone glen]

Nope, just if we will do it like in real life, so all must play like in real life. Not only deinos

Because yes, crocs must swim up and look around. But animals that r drinking always dont show any reaction for it

And even if croc swim to it they continue to drink

So i understand right, u want like this?

[white cove]

It's

Impressive

[ocean wagon]

Ahhhhh so you admit that the only way for you to reliably kill a stego by yourself is for it to be swimming aka in the environment where you have the advantage and it chose to go in is a better idea vs in the plains/anywhere that the stego isn’t swimming in aka where the land apex herbivore would and should have the advantage in which you chose to engage it in.

[white cove]

Hey, if you want deino to have a shot at winning against stego because irl weight difference (stego fun be damned!), I think deinos should have to peek above water to see above water (deino fun be damned!)

[hasty coyote]

So you just face tank things and expect to win?

[stone glen]

I just said that on the plain there is no chance against the stego. But. this is because he will not allow croc to attack its body or head and croc can only bite stego tail with small dmg while stego makes full dmg. BUT. What I'm talking about is that in close combat, when a croc suddenly attacks from the water and comes close to the stego, the stego will hardly be able to tank. especially when deino bites him to the head or neck.

[white cove]

Realism for thee but not for me

[stone glen]

lol when you pitch an idea to irl it's unironic. And when you are offered to follow realism to the end, then you say that it is not for you.

[white cove]

Yes

[stone glen]

Oh, ok.

[stone glen]

Yep, if im bigger and have more biteforce and tons.

[white cove]

Self awareness is a rare traits amongst deino players

[ocean wagon]

Again, a stego drinking water is not a stego that’s swimming. The moment you ambush from the water on a adult stego and you land that first bite, you should not have the advantage unless the stego is completely brain dead and doesn’t attack your for about 5 seconds after your first bite. Any stego with a few brain cells will immediately turn away from you and start getting headshots on your deino whilst creating distance for themselves so you can only get tail shots while it gets head shots on you.

[white cove]

Biggest brain stegos drink backwards

[ocean wagon]

Or that tbh

[white cove]

Skip the turning and just stab

[ocean wagon]

I was giving him the better end of the stick by not saying the stego was drinking backwards

[stone glen]

Thats right, but he making distance and attacking, not just staying and tanking croc alt bites.

[stone glen]

Yes

[white cove]

But he's on land, why wouldn't he stay and fight in his element

[hexed sorrel]

@noble wave why tho

[stone glen]

Because im stronger in close fight cuz of my size

[white cove]

But you're not

[ocean wagon]

Lmfao you’re not stronger than a stego

[white cove]

Because thagomizer

[stone glen]

That s why i wrote my feedback

:)

[stone glen]

Btw, good way to avoid crocs

Even if he stronger in close fight

[white cove]

But he's not

[ocean wagon]

Your feedback to be summarized is “I want to face tank and want little to no strategy to hunting”

[stone glen]

Ur tail takes less dmg

[white cove]

iirc stego tail takes no damage

At least the tip

[noble wave]

@hexed sorrel it bleeds out way too fast just from a few bites, it's worse compared to other dinos and I'm not sure why it is

[white cove]

IM BIGGER THAN YOU IM 'IGHER ON THE FOOD CHAIN, GET IN MAH BELLY

[ocean wagon]

I think it’s the end of the tail that takes no damage, which is what deinos will be bitting as the stego is creating space

[white cove]

Yeah, it even inflicts a little damage back

Not sure if its a static amount or relative to what's biting it

[ocean wagon]

My bad, I forgot to eat grass and die. I forgot my role as a grass licker

[white cove]

Grass eating peon

[stone glen]

It is my fault that this being my main and almost only tactic? For example, I can’t tank a shanta or a trike in the same way. I want to tank stego cuz it s smaller than me

[white cove]

Smaller but not weaker, so there ya go

[slim dragon]

I already said this in another discussion, but stego is specifically armed to deal with things larger than itself. It's literally meant to be a counter to deino (and every apex).

[ocean wagon]

No no, eat grass and die

[stone glen]

Yep

[white cove]

Size isn't everything, 12 inch long spikes on a tail make a bigger difference than 2 tonnes

[ocean wagon]

Why should stego be able to defend itself

[slim dragon]

Ugh... fine

[stone glen]

Should be weaker in close fight as i think

[white cove]

especially when that 2 tons is on something so poorly equipped for terrestrial combat like a deino

[ocean wagon]

They were actually 3 feet long but don’t tell the deino mains that

They might have to actually consider what battles they want to fight

[stone glen]

On some distance, but not too close

[floral wraith]

Stegos are not meant to be easily killable. They are literally slow-moving tanks. The deino doesn’t even have a good reason to eat them, it kills pretty much anything else with relative ease. There’s always going to be -something- on the roster that comes out on top and currently it’s stego, and reasonably so

[slim dragon]

Yes, when too close too. That's what legs and tail flexibility are for.

[ocean wagon]

Actually

I find this person logic really interesting ngl

[stone glen]

Yes, tank, but deino should be tankiER than stego

[ocean wagon]

By this logic in close quarters combat if deino, a puesdo semi aquatic apex is supposed to have the advantage over stego, imagine what actual land apexes will do to the slow moving stego

You just eat grass and die

All you can do at this point

[slim dragon]

It is tankier. But less well armed.

[golden coral]

It is. Deino has 2K hp on stego, and double bleed resist compared to the rest of the roster.

[stone glen]

When it close it should be able to tank deino because deino have initiative when attacking wirst from water

[slim dragon]

It already is able to tank deino. That's fine btw.

[golden coral]

Yes, deino has the initiative, but sometimes that's not enough to win the engagement. You can have the initiative vs a rex or a trike too, not going to help most likely. There's going to be a fair few critters a deino should just not mess with, stego, at least for now, is one of them.

[slim dragon]

Something that would be fun would be that deino instantly dies when lunging a trikes head
Just like Utah

[white cove]

It gets a free stun and extra 2 bites when with initiative from the water

[stone glen]

Yes, but big land apex isnt fast enough and stego can just run and maneuver keeping a bit distance from enemy and attack. Also stego lives in plains, he can see big predators from far just run.

[slim dragon]

I doubt stego will be able to run away from a rex or a giga

[ocean wagon]

HUH

I’m like 90% sure the apex trio will be faster than stego

[stone glen]

Srry I made a mistake. I mean it shouldn't

[golden coral]

Ah yes, stego should run. Does it look like a critter that's faster than rex or giga? :p And stego has no moving attacks, so as of right now, it can't really run around and manuever and all that very well, it works vs a deino on land cause well, deino on land. Not sure it'll work as well vs actual landbased apexes and stuff.

[slim dragon]

Deino isn't a damage dealer at all tho
It's jaw and teeth are made for grabbing and holding prey, not tear it apart. This is sharks' job.

[ocean wagon]

You know, if you want a dinosaur game that allows aquatic carnivores to solo no diff the entire roster, I strongly recommend you installing bob tbh

[stone glen]

But rex is bigger and also 8 t. So of course you don't tank it. Cuz rex has more dmg too

[slim dragon]

I actually think a stego should be able to tank a rex, especially if it has its back towards the rex

Like a trike, but reverse

[white cove]

you seem to understand the concept of other carnivores dealing higher damage than deino, but for some reason stego is excluded from this mindset

[ocean wagon]

But muh Rex!

[slim dragon]

Don't worry, rex will be able to assride stego ez

[calm ibex]

hopefully either apexes wont get their max sizes or stego gets its irl max size down the line

[stone glen]

Not run fuster but turning and keep distance for the tail attack. Dmg will do other

[golden coral]

So, my point was that there are going to be things you can't take on a deino, stego is included there, despite being slightly lighter, but it's definitely plenty powerful with it's tail. Also stego might get an upsize in the future, and most likely a rework, since it needs to be able to survive rex as well, so there is that.

[stone glen]

U cant defeat apex trio anyway

[ocean wagon]

[slim dragon]

Honestly it's the carnivore who should be running around trying to avoid stego's tail, not stego who should reposition itself when it's attacked
It doesn't have the mobility to do so

[stone glen]

I wrote about it down

[slim dragon]

Legacy way of thinking

[ocean wagon]

Cama, brachi, shant, stego, anky, and trike would like to have a chat with you

[slim dragon]

and dilo

[ocean wagon]

I guess Cama, brachi, shant, stego, anky, and trike should all eat grass and die as well

[white cove]

Deino should be subject to trample damage because it is on the ground 🙂

[stone glen]

If wr r talking about real, so deono must break bones because it s exactly what he did. Kill turtles and ankys by smashing their armour

[slim dragon]

Did I ever mention real life ? I'm still talking about the game

[stone glen]

Hahaha no i dont want to be killed by elasmo on 1.0 mosa

[golden coral]

Sauropod go stomp (well, maybe not the small one but the big ones should)

[slim dragon]

Also I don't think even a real-life deino bite would break Anky's armor
Imagine something like rhino, but 10x tougher
Literally a rock on legs

[stone glen]

Ye, if it ll turn his tail to it

[ocean wagon]

But you’d rather your shant get one tapped by a giga

[stone glen]

Yep

[white cove]

nah, sauropod go stomp.

magy gonna run deino tf over

[slim dragon]

That's how magy survives
Stand on deino its enitre life, and use it's long neck as a periscope for when deino dives underwater

[ocean wagon]

Just curious, did you happen to be a Rex main in legacy?

[hexed sorrel]

few bites from what? carno? thats carnos problem not tenos. because utahs kill tenos with bites before it bleeds out

[stone glen]

Im not, but stego should have less bites that he can tank. I mean stego dmg still in, but in close fight deino will kill u faster than u will kill him. If deino will bite ur body or head

Uh

Srry guys, im tiered a bit

Im just asking on comments that are 7 min ago lol

Im talking with about 3 ppl or smth like

[calm ibex]

its very exhausting yes

[stone glen]

Cant write like that anymore

It was my opinion, i dont want all to think like me

[white cove]

if deino bites your head it will kill you faster

but good stegos won't let that happen and a good stego should beat a good deino in a land war 10/10

[hexed sorrel]

How many bites does it take to bleed out carno ffs?

as utah

[wise sparrow]

More than 1

[hexed sorrel]

I guarantee you a carno can bleed from 20 utah bites, not sit down and it wont bleed out

[stone glen]

Man, srry, im out. Cant continue disputing with 3 ppl when im living in past and answering to 7 min ago messages

Just exhausted

But thanks for dispute

[hexed sorrel]

so I was having an argument with someone the other say about deinos being able to kill stegos easier, he compared stegos and deinos to lions and elephants. at that point I gave up.

[white cove]

no problem, I hope any changes they make to the deino stego interaction will satisfy us both

[stone glen]

Thanks, i hope so too

[hexed sorrel]

alright, lets wait 6 months to see if the balance changed are better

[spare badger]

How does that make sense?

A closer comparison would be crocodiles (duh) and some sort of Buffalo

Although a stego's weapon is much better suited to pierce a croc

At least the weights match up somewhat

Imo stego should be able to kill deino
It has a weapon perfect for it, crocodillians are very weak to long, pointy weapons (tusks, spikes, etc)

[versed rune]

Wait so people are actually ok with it taking 12 whole body shots for a giant crocodile to kill a stego?

[slim dragon]

Yes

[versed rune]

Couldn’t you also say the same for making it so stego can’t tank 6 whole deino bites to its head tho

[slim dragon]

Realistically it would take an infinite amount of bites for Deino to kill a stego with body shots since it couldn't wrap its jaws around it

[versed rune]

Quite a wacky take there, perhaps a kooky one. One might even call that take a zany one

[hexed sorrel]

yeah, I mean 1 on 1 yeah, stegos should easy take out a croc, however 2 on 1? I feel like croc should stank a better shot

[wise sparrow]

If stego cant kill deino then deino would have nothing to kill it other than themselves. Which never actually cannibalize.

So we'd just get deino death armies killing everything they can and stealing every corpse and guarding every plant.

[spare badger]

Definitely agree there

[hexed sorrel]

@noble wave I legit went on eu 5 on my teno and fought 4 carnos, they bit me til I was 1/3 hp, and my bleed is FINE idk where your getting the bleed out from

[spare badger]

They should at least be able to 2v1 stego if they have at minimum 3 brain cells

[versed rune]

So by this logic that means that carnos should be 2/3 shotting stegos in the face and deino’s should be one shotting them.

Exact realism can’t be applied to a video game

[wise sparrow]

Stego is literally the only thing keeping deino in water

[hexed sorrel]

obviously I wasnt by myself

but they still bit me a shit ton

[slim dragon]

Exactly. That's why it's fine that deino takes 12 body shots to kill a stego. Gameplay over realism

[spare badger]

I want to downsize both of em temporarily
At least for now

[versed rune]

And a croc needing to bite a stego 12 whole times is not good gameplay. You just.... stand there. And spam click and hope you win.

In a traditional “fight” stego should typically beat a croc no sweat, but I mean deino can’t even ambush the thing right now

[slim dragon]

Or maybe you don't attack stego and attack something that is in your prey range instead

[golden coral]

They can, 1v1 is doable, 2 deino vs 1 stego and the stego will die unless the deinos mess up.

[wise sparrow]

That's just because both of them are so fat that they literally cant fight other than face tanking. Which stego wins it with its aoe attack

[ocean wagon]

my god, understand what a satire joke is

[golden coral]

In any case, yes, it's fine that deino bite is "useless" because of it's grab mechanic. Perhaps if that mechanic wasn't quite as one-shot then we could have something more interactive/dynamic, but even then, deino should probably not go "om nom nom", there are better candidates for that really.

[spare badger]

Stego has the benefit of a huge, hard hitting yet expensive attack

Much more useful than a bite which takes no stam so does less damage in return

[ocean wagon]

why the hell would i want stego to one shot a deino on a head shot. What kind of balancing is that

[versed rune]

Idk man there are some pretty bad takes in here so it’s hard to tell what’s sincere and what isnt

[ocean wagon]

idk man next time read chat for context on the conversation

[versed rune]

Wouldn’t the solution to this be to make deino and stego kill each other faster?

[golden coral]

Well, people do like to say "if deino bit stego head stego would just die" and sure, but deino would also die if thagomizer go through brain :p

[hexed sorrel]

unfortunately, not true

[versed rune]

I did and I still thought it was sincere lol

[golden coral]

No, because they are both very slow growing and thus not something that should just die, it's not fun for either side.

[wise sparrow]

Ok. So now stego still wins, just faster

[golden coral]

It is very true. This has been tested, not too long ago at that.

[slim dragon]

And deino mains cry even more because they didn't have time to react

[versed rune]

Not if you adjust stats correctly

[spare badger]

Lmao true

[wise sparrow]

Thing is you literally cant make stego vs deino skill based. Both of them are so fucking clunky they literally HAVE to face tank. So if you adjust stats so deino can win, it will win almost every single time

[hollow canyon]

it is true though, the Deino needs to play using hands though

[versed rune]

Legit the same mf’s who cried for carno buffs because it was “too weak” last build now want it nerfed because it’s “op”

[golden coral]

Well, we could get more mobiltiy, if they had decided to add that, but for now, you're unfortunately correct. Which makes deiono vs deino, stego vs stego, and deino vs stego rather boring matchups in general :p

[hollow canyon]

1v1 is generally... kind of based on luck and not reliable

but 2v1 can be done quite reliably

[spare badger]

Imo deino has no business fighting stego 1 on 1

2 on 1 stego should be scared, it's 2 giant crocodiles.

[spare badger]

People say that not realising that they have to take into account the strengths of other dinos

Like, realise that carno wasnt garbage, but teno and pachy were OP and not working properly

[versed rune]

Depends. If you drop down both deino’s hp and stego’s hp, stego’s priority will be defending his head. Croc would HAVE to go for the head if he wants the kill because stego can still tank enough body hits to kill deino faster

[golden coral]

And it will, if the deinos coordinate, use their lunge, and all that. If the stego is good, it might still kill one of them, but then it will die to the other. If it wants to live, it has to run.

[wise sparrow]

Stego just turns around and then the deino has to spend 20 seconds trying go move back to its head.

[spare badger]

The big guys are just really clunky so it's hard to make fights any good

[versed rune]

This whole idea that big things have to have massive health pools that forgive all error is absurd and exactly the reason legacy’s balance was fucked

[spare badger]

Yea, lunge, stun, get headshots, should kill stego, stego should avoid them

[calm ibex]

i would like big things combat to be generally more unforgiving and "skill based" than smaller tiers, sadly opposite is the case

[spare badger]

A big downside of health = weight...

[golden coral]

I guess that means small things should die even faster then, and do minimal damage, if we are to keep the proper size and what that means in terms of impact and all.

[versed rune]

That’s why the deino has to be smart with his ambush, because if you make him able to 4 shot stego on the head that won’t be an issue

[versed rune]

No. Nerf hp values on big things. Slightly buff the damage and VERY slightly buff the hp on smaller things. Game fixed.

[golden coral]

Eh, growth time and all that. Investment means you can't just have things die quickly, small things can because they return quickly too.

[spare badger]

750 damage deino? (Not including lunge nvm)

[golden coral]

What no. You don't make smaller things stronger and bigger things weaker, that's not how it works.

[wise sparrow]

Okay. Stego just drinks with it's back to the water.

If the stego has the mental capacity to position itself in a way that doesn't make it free food, deino literally cant do shit.

[versed rune]

When your “smaller dinosaurs” all do less than 300 damage on their strongest attacks Yea you kinda need to do that

Especially carno and teno who, should both be strong for their sizes

[golden coral]

If you ramp up the smaller ones damage and health, you need to do the same for the bigger ones to keep the size and power difference properly?

[spare badger]

It's less of a "small dinos weak" problem and more of a

We have 2 apexes and a bunch of mid/pseudo mids that aren't designed to kill the apexes (Utah doesn't count cause it's Utah and doesn't work and is bad at hunting stego)

[calm ibex]

dinos with best stats tend to be the easiest to play and learn aswell

[harsh lark]

Small dinos are balanced like their cost is a wet fart though. When in reality Utah is still over an hour investment to grow. We're gonna run into a big sunken cost fallacy as stego+ sized dinos get added.

[versed rune]

No because currently a stego takes 18 headshots from a carno. HEADSHOTS from a carno. If you nerfed stegos hp down to where carno can kill steg in say 12 headshots then that’s still a strong af stego

[white cove]

utah is gr8 at hunting stego; not saying it should be but a myriad of bugs and lack of features make it a stego killer

[versed rune]

Like at that point if you’re a stego and you die to a carno you’re just an idiot. You LET it get 12 WHOLE HEADSHOTS ON YA

[golden coral]

Carno should not be hunting stego, end of that story :p

[versed rune]

Wrong

[white cove]

I mean, if you've got 3 carnos (full pack) that's currently 6 headshots each

seems reasonable to me

[versed rune]

If stego’s gonna survive in the future then it needs to fight apexes

And we all agree allo should be hunting stego right?

[golden coral]

Allo packs sure

[calm ibex]

no

[versed rune]

How in the hell is allo gonna kill a stego if it stays like this

[golden coral]

As in 3-4 of them

[versed rune]

Allo is SLOWER than carno

[spare badger]

True
But also why tf would carno hunt stego
Not exactly designed for it

[white cove]

Well my dear boy, a single allo shouldnt take a single stego

[spare badger]

Not solo
In packs yea

[versed rune]

How is allo going to get hits on it without getting stabbed if it’s slower than carno

[harsh lark]

easy you give allo 3x carnos hp and dmg despite it only being slightly bigger, and we ignore the impending community rage when servers are full of allo megapacks

[spare badger]

I would say agility but then carno turn buffs

[white cove]

side and whatever unique mechanic comes with allo

probably a grapple of some kind

use pack tactics to force stego to turn and attack its flank

dont bum rush it and trade bites

[golden coral]

To be fair, we don't know if allo will hunt stego. I think most of us go with the whole "stego vs allo" thing just like we have "trike vs rex" :p Nor do we know how allo will hunt, if it even gets the grapple that was once a thing I think.

[white cove]

tru

[versed rune]

It’s amazing to me that people think stego should be some crazy tank herbivore like triceratops or shant.

Stego works best as a glass cannon type herbivore, so confused as to why people want to make it a generic “you can’t touch me unless ur bigger than me, lole!!!!”

[white cove]

I guess "how will allo hunt stego in current form" is kind of a moot point because allo isn't around

[versed rune]

It’s not a moot point, because the fact that allo is slower than carno guaranteed already puts allo in a tough spot

[harsh lark]

I mean on the flip side "how will stego survive apexes if it isnt immune to carno/deino megapacks" is also a moot point

[spare badger]

It makes no sense for them not to since, y'know, they did it irl and balancing it should make natural sense

[golden coral]

I think it's more so that stego is good vs "smaller" pack based critters, whereas a shant or trike is weak vs said "smaller" pack based critters but strong vs the other apexes.

[white cove]

it's not a crazy tank herbivore at present. It's just tanky compared to the 2 small game hunters we have and a crocodile that's best attack is to drown things half its weight

[versed rune]

Surely you didn’t call utah a small game hunter right

[calm ibex]

seething rn

[golden coral]

If balancing should make natural sense.. I don't know xD I don't personally mind if a allo pack can do it, but they would be on the "just about big enough to take on a stego" I would say

[white cove]

sorry; crocodile was included in small game on account of its only real tool being to drown <4 tons

[golden coral]

More so "small predator" perhaps

[white cove]

utah doesnt struggle with stego at all

unless you're trash, then just seethe

[spare badger]

Imo a pack of allos should be able to kill stego, it makes sense

[golden coral]

Hence why stego needs a rework, or change around with how utah works :D

[spare badger]

Stego is like, the best suited large herbi to defend against Utah since it can defend its flanks, unlike smth like trike or shant

[calm ibex]

omnidirectional stomp wen

[white cove]

as someone who likes stego, here's my hot take: Stego is fine as is, but also shouldn't exist as the roster is :/

I get that it was a peace offering for a lackluster update 2 (relative to intital roadmap) but it's here and kills a lot of folks' vibe

[golden coral]

"Balance" wise stego is fine. Agreed that it shouldn't be in roster, but then neither should deino really. Disagree that stego is fine "design" wise, but then I have my own view of how stego should function on that account so :p

[spare badger]

Kentro and bary/sucho would have made for much better additions

[hexed sorrel]

im sorry but who tf added carno? allo would have gone wonders with stego

[white cove]

He said the a word

[golden coral]

But it's still hilarious that people think stegos are bad, when deino grows way faster, way easier, is just as capable of taking on the rest of the roster, even sort of on land, and is unkillable by the rest of the roster, even stegos, unless it put itself in the way of them.

[versed rune]

Carno would be fine if uh, yknow.

It had a rival like allo or cera

[hexed sorrel]

faster? nah they have the exact same growth with perfect diet

[versed rune]

But no can’t have shit in Detroit

[golden coral]

Are you aware of the "no diet until 50% growth" thing? :p

[white cove]

And it is a bit harder to have a perfect diet as deino tbh

[golden coral]

• the whole "fill up before the 50% tick" and get a free ride a bit longer :p

[spare badger]

Imo carno being a more specialized predator should have come later, after cera at least

[white cove]

at least, in my experience but I suck with the croc :/

[golden coral]

As opposed to the herbis having to run around from fresh spawn and add time before they get perfect diet going

[hexed sorrel]

thats the thing for every carnivore

should I say that teno should absolutely smoke carno then?

[white cove]

Playing herbi is mr worldwide

[golden coral]

I know. I was comparing how much easier and safer deino is vs stego, since people love to complain about stegos but does not mind deino being so much better in pretty much all aspects.

I don't think teno is that good, but yes, a good teno should be able to handle a carno relatively easy.

[white cove]

good take, a bleeding shame that the biggest land carnivore is also the fasest and it has been this way since late 2020

[hexed sorrel]

all I want is a way to kill stegos rather than having to run out of water then do so, no crocs do that irl

[white cove]

correct, no crocodiles get out of the water to kill stegosaurus irl

[hexed sorrel]

ffs. use some logic xD

[alpine plover]

and the next dinosaur is troodon🙂 we’re gonna be suffering the carnopocalypse for a long LONG time

[golden coral]

If you can convince the devs to give us a proper tug of war and you know, actual ability to fight back, sure. I don't think deino should go om nom nom with bites, but I wouldn't mind a more interactive/dynamic lunge, just like a better pounce would be nice.

[spare badger]

Cerato is hopefully coming somewhat soon (in this year hopefully)

[hexed sorrel]

literally made that like a few months ago but nah no discussion of it with the devs

[white cove]

I for one loathe welcome our old new carno overlords

[hexed sorrel]

carno would be fine if they just nerf the fucking drift like holy shit the thing would snap its bones if it drifted like that irl

[alpine plover]

are people going to even play cerato though, I mean it’s a cool dinosaur and all but since a good majority of the playerbase attracts to the biggest theropod it seems useless

[calm ibex]

i bet people who like carno has had like their fever dream playing evrima these couple soon to become years atleast

[white cove]

fantastic take. I'd be okay if a tug of war applied to stego. Full stam stego easily beats full stam deino so they are safe to drink, but not safe to spam attacks into the water

HOWEVER the counter to that must be that the tug of war applies to smaller dinos too, as in if you lunge a carno with 20% stam and it has full, it can get away

[golden coral]

@hexed sorrelI know, I don't have much hope myself, but still. I think both pounce and lunge could be better and more interesting. Even pounce is just.. lacklustre in the whole, pounce, buck, pounce, buck. You just hold E, or click/hold RMB and look at your stam. xD

[white cove]

Pounce should interact with trees and rocks again -_-

[hexed sorrel]

agreed, pounce has so many ways to be so much better

[golden coral]

I just want some sort of brace/attack vs buck. So you have to try and buck when the utah is attacking, while it can brace to make you waste stam, or something.

[hexed sorrel]

nah, WAY too much trees around, plus with how USELESS utah bite is it would be unfair for a stego lets say to hang around a tree

[white cove]

obviously not small small like utah and dryo, but maybe lower the lunge pickup weight limit to like 1 ton and start the tug of war beyond that

[hexed sorrel]

im pretty sure it still does knock you off, just doesnt have the animation

[golden coral]

So yeah, if we had better deino mechanic, it'd be more interesting and you'd have the ability to let deinos attack bigger stuff at the opportunistic moments and so on.

[white cove]

Pounce should interact with trees and rocks again, but definitely not knock you on your ass for 30s like before

[golden coral]

Just make it so that it only applies when running.

[white cove]

it does not, most utahs just dismount before out of some weird habit

[white cove]

Scale the knockdown effect with the speed of the dino running into tree and make it more effective on rocks

[hexed sorrel]

for some weird reason, it always happens to me as an adult utah, but not as juvie

[white cove]

Stego walking next to a tree? You get force dismounted. Carno sprinting next to a rock? You get your lights knocked tf out

[golden coral]

If you run = utah gets knocked off. But not if you walk/trot. There you go, no more just circling a tree, it won't help. Or make it so that the knockdown stun only applies when running, but otherwise knocks the utah off, but it can escape just fine. Just a normal landing/automatic dismount perhaps.

Point is, you could do something more interesting with that mechanic as well at least :p

[white cove]

yeah, that works too

[hexed sorrel]

having a 450(if 1) kg backpack will slow the carno down probably consume more stamina and overall just not want t o run

[white cove]

that's a really good point, but it should still be able to run if it can geta good knock off

[hexed sorrel]

realistically yeah

we can never get the perfect balance because we are humans trying to play dinosaurs lol

[golden coral]

I think it might be good if we get a hadrosaur, or at least a ceratopsid sooner rather than later, so utah can be tuned to proper prey, to see how that goes.

[white cove]

again, im pretty sure the way it is (no knock off) is not the intent. I think it's a result of a U4 bugfix that was pouncing onto a rock or tree would cause you to fall over

which was stupid and a solid bugfix

[hexed sorrel]

a stego would probably never think of "oh I should slam this utah into the tree" it would panic and do whatever it can do standing still

[white cove]

Stego should do its wallow animation when utahs pounce it

[golden coral]

On the other hand, a utah probably would never think "yes, I'm going to attack the large thing that seems to be dangerous" :p

[white cove]

fuck balance, utah pancake

[golden coral]

That wallow anim needs work.. :p

[white cove]

eh, you practically never see it anymore

[hexed sorrel]

yeah it just constantly breaks its ribs

[golden coral]

That's mostly cause few wallowing spots :p

[glossy merlin]

must stop with the mixes. Even today I play Stegosaurus and I died with bleeding at 0 and 90 or 95% health. You press E, he falls and the tail hasn't left when he's already up and walks away. Already the herbivores are hard to ride. And with the bleeding in 5 to 10 minutes you are dead. He seeks that there are no more herbivores in the game. In addition new record 4 carnivor on the back I have not finished pressing E that other jumps on my back.

[covert cave]

what

[sinful cove]

Is google translate at work here

Im confused is he saying stego is op or utah is op

[covert cave]

Utah mixes?

He thinks utahs are broken because they do bleed instead of health but im not sure what he wants to change

Looks like he wants a stego buff

[sinful cove]

Is he saying bleed is op because it can kill you while you are high hp

[covert cave]

I guess

I mean idk what he’s saying about mixes though

[sinful cove]

Unless a pack knows what theyre doing i dont think stego really buckles to them rn

Yeah the mix part confuses me

[covert cave]

I mean from what he’s saying it looks like he just stands in place and bucks

So maybe not the best stego player around

Man I’m saying “I mean” a lot

[sinful cove]

Yeah using terrain is ideal unless you’re in a real unlucky spot

Just using buck isnt gonna do much except extend your suffering against utahs who know what theyre doing

[covert cave]

Just press W until you find a wall or water

An adult steg could def last long enough to do that

[sinful cove]

I still use bushes to somewhat decent degrees but i also dont play stego unless im on a freegrow server, and i dont play on freegrow servers because of the broadcast spam

I see no reason why a stego couldnt do the same

[covert cave]

🤷‍♂️

[sinful cove]

Utah pounce is also broken rn apparently it has something to do with what range you use it from l, from the feedback i've seen

So if thats the case then the raptors attacking him also have to watch out for that, musta run in to some pack of pro raptors lmao

[covert cave]

Raptors hit the lag switch on him

[covert cave]

Return of “utha”

Last name, first name

[thin mantle]

@stone glen Deino already does kill stego with 5 Alt headshots. Alt does more damage than your standard bite and stego has a 2x head multi with 6k hp, your balance suggestion already exists in game aside from the water damage reduction, which I find kinda silly since deino easily has the agency to swim away from a charging stego casually.
Deino has literally all of the leverage in that engagement and stegos are required to go to areas where deinos could be present, considering stegos lack land and water speed it having the upper hand in that matchup makes sense.

[covert cave]

I do like the idea of the tail being weakened by water though

[sinful cove]

Lmao i had a chuckle at that too

[covert cave]

You’ve got to be kidding me

[sinful cove]

And yeah, terrestrials not intended to use water in combat should have some level of dampening in their attacks. Not stego exclusive ofc

[covert cave]

^

[sinful cove]

Amazing. Poetry.

[covert cave]

Ohh he’s French that explains it

(Not the bad takes, the broken English. I promise I don’t hate French people)

[sinful cove]

“What breaks the balls and prevents the stego from rising is the utha”

[covert cave]

Love that one too

Balls? Bleed to death

[dusky surge]

It’s okay. I forgive your anti-French agenda

[sinful cove]

Google translate has done us all dirty at some point

[dusky surge]

Also anyone who uses “utha” should never have their takes respected

[covert cave]

He seems new so I can understand the frustration but to propose the removal of an animal that the game is already fucking over instead of acknowledging your lack of skill is just beyond funny

[dusky surge]

Every time someone types “utha”, they are about to curse us with some dumb shit

[covert cave]

Fact

[dusky surge]

It’s either people who want utah to become god of gods and kill anything it touches, or people who want it to die upon touching an opponent

[covert cave]

Make utha lose oxygen when pouncing because it’s facing in a weird position

[sinful cove]

Make utha have 50% chance spine fracture when falling off ponce

[covert cave]

Make utha bleed do increased damage to larger aminals to be more in line with its badass nature

[dusky surge]

also, it's funny, he says utah demolishes the stego, but logically speaking, stego would be one of the apexes it has the worst time with, besides deino and anky (ironically, some of utahs worst apex matchups are the main apexes rn)

utah would probably have a much better time hunting, say, a trike

[covert cave]

Even more ironically, Utah is the only creature that can reliably hunt steg rn

[dusky surge]

yea

[covert cave]

I use reliable very loosely

[dusky surge]

i love how they HAD shown off trike for EVRIMA and it was even IN an update for a bit

[covert cave]

It was?

[dusky surge]

it was

[covert cave]

What update lmao

[dusky surge]

there was a time where EVRIMA servers were "injecting" trikes

very cringe

[covert cave]

Wow

[dusky surge]

https://youtu.be/abugC8BGU9s

[covert cave]

Personally I’d rather have trike than stego

But maybe I’m stupid

[white cove]

man am i cheesed stuff like this was worked on to the point of near completion and shown off before evrima dropped

then people don't understand why folks expected more features/playables at evrima launch

[dusky surge]

i mean, they do have an animated rex and trike as far as i know

issue i think they have is they either don't have the biomes for these animals or feel they do not fit within the game as it is

[stark knoll]

Or they're not fully animated

I highly doubt that they have body and head fracture animations

Or cc animations (when young)

Hell their morphs might not be properly set

Just because something has enough anims to be used in a tech demo doesn't mean it's ready

[white cove]

again: nothing had any of that at launch

So i feel like the sentiment is still valid, that time could have been used to work on stuff that would be usable to the playerbase at a more reasonable time

but I guess it was programming backlog at the time so not really an issue

though I can't help but think that if the time spent on rex anims/growth cycle, spino anims/growth cycle, trike anims, growth cycle, combat, quickturn.... was used for stuff like fractures, diet plants, or even a skin system it might have had a positive effect on development

^very outside perspective, idk what the development pipeline was like at the time. Nesting was once Update 7, but I imagine the team must have always known they would come before rex trike spino allo etc

this aint #balance-feedback-discussion so ill shut up on that

[glossy merlin]

It is exactly that. The bond of the utha is completely broken. When he jumps on us and he times up to 3 or 4 seconds and leaves he is not reachable.....

[covert cave]

He’s not saying it’s overpowered, he’s saying there’s a bug that’s causing it to randomly fail, making the life of a certain stego player significantly easier

[dusky surge]

utah is meant to be an apex hunter

in packs at least

[sinful cove]

Time your swings better and try to use rocks and plants to make it barder for them to pounce you

Utah isnt op right now from what ive seen personally

[dusky surge]

ive seen some vids of some utter fucking lunatic utah player but he's not really a demonstration of the norm

[sinful cove]

Yeah most utah player are … below average

Better than carno players average rn though

[dusky surge]

man literally does not pounce because it, in his opinion, makes fights too easy, so he BITES STEGOS TO DEATH SOLO WHAT

[sinful cove]

Isle players in general usually aren’t exactly strategists or very patient

But then theres those players you are unlucky to run in to

[dusky surge]

its like watching a sticky utah vid but actually impressive

because the dude times everything fucking perfectly

he's not relying on no alt-turn or some tailriding, he literally runs directly into his opponents face and times his attacks, it's frankly terrifying

[sinful cove]

Sticky utah was pretty cringe, ive seen some impressive work done by utahs and pteras in evrima that actually takes forethought and not “i know this broken hitbox and thats it”

[dusky surge]

i think he's called himself "slippery utah" which is pretty funny

but yea, infinitely more impressive than knowing "heal ticks" or where the broken hitboxes are

[sinful cove]

Sticky utah: who are you
Slippery utah: i'm you but cool

[dusky surge]

then there's the videos of some isle youtubers saying carno is broken OP and teno is terrible while travelling in packs of 3 and taking on single tenos

because yea obviously that teno should've been able to manage that if the game was balanced

[sinful cove]

Tenonto is kinda lame rn but that’s part in due to the fact that carnos are roving in lynch mobs

[dusky surge]

its not awful, the worst part about teno is the fact that it is inherently harder to grow than carno

which makes the reward not worth the effort

teno can still utterly make a carno into fucking fine paste

you just need to know what to do and when

[sinful cove]

Its harder to grow and has an unreliable hitbox on its kick, and too much stam drain on its slam. Carno is the biggest issue in that pairup tbh

Pachy though…

[dusky surge]

pachy still does okay against utahs, just need to know how to fight them

[sinful cove]

Pachy is just sorry rn lol

Against carnos

[dusky surge]

alt-bite never changed so I can still use it to make utahs into a memory

[sinful cove]

When i was playing the update i had little to no problems just wiping out pachies because of carno's agility, useless fractures that also heal on the move (i barely got leg fractures anyway) and the tracking system

[dusky surge]

here's what I think should happen with Pachy

RMB can be held indefinitely and cancelled at will, at the cost of turn radius. Generally, you'd prefer to stay in base stance while moving around, and RMB can be used as a threaten display/combat thing. No more dropping the stance right before headbutt.

Fractures gain fracture damage for "aggravating" them. Moving on leg fracture = more blunt damage to leg, depending on movement, sprint being highest. Using stam on body fracture = more body fracture damage depending on stam output. Biting or eating on head fracture = more head fracture damage.

Slightly more damage for all headbutt variants, along with blunt damage to match.

Make the thing hit once and hit hard

[glossy merlin]

Just that he repairs the hitbox of the utha jump, because frankly being able to do nothing against guys who use the hitbox of being untouchable to chain stegos, already mounting a stegausor is long. If in 10 minutes it's ruined because the utha is completely broken... Especially since more and more utha uses it's hitbox against the stegos.

[spare badger]

Who

[dusky surge]

dont recall

[spare badger]

:(

[dusky surge]

probably search up slippery utah or some shit

[spare badger]

Oh
I've heard of him

Never seen anything tho

https://youtu.be/VAgYBC5u1qg
This guy?

[spare badger]

This guy is fighting stego 1 on 1

[alpine plover]

@tiny quiver absolutely not, food drain is already too fast

[dusky surge]

why would you want carno food drain to be faster

where did the idea that carno food drain was ever made slower even come from

carno drains food just as fast as it did for the past few updates

[alpine plover]

Idk, he is the one asking for a faster food drain for carno

[dusky surge]

it literally starves faster than every other animal in the game lmao

[alpine plover]

Yeah

Food drain is one of the things that aren't responsible of carno megapacks

And 24 people liked it wtf?

People just want a nerf for carno, they don't even care if that specific nerf makes sense, they read carno nerf and the like it

[tiny quiver]

Did you read the dev notes?

[dusky surge]

i did, did you

[tiny quiver]

Yup they made food drain slower for all creatures

[dusky surge]

that is absolutely not what happened

read what they said

[tiny quiver]

Okay boy are these people in this balance feedback opinionated

[dusky surge]

its not even an opinion

[tiny quiver]

Every post ive made simply asks the devs to look at the data not to change based on my opinion

[dusky surge]

"Mass removed per tick reduced. Fills up on less food."

"Fills up on less food"

The drain was literally never modified

It takes less to fill a stomach

It doesn't take longer for it to decrease

[tiny quiver]

Understood my bad

Point is still the same all i suggested to the devs is to look at the data and figure out the issue

I gave suggestions

[dusky surge]

only nerf i really agree with is slowing the turn, never knew why they buffed it in the first place, carno's whole thing is turning bad

[tiny quiver]

On my opinion as i said “as someone who never plays carno so i dont honestly know the issue”

[dusky surge]

literally everything else is fine

[tiny quiver]

The devs made the group limit 3 for a reason

There is a reason it has suddenly become an issue

[dusky surge]

i mean, carno being cannibalistic has actually made it better at megapacking rather than worse lmao

[tiny quiver]

Asked the devs to look into it. I thought it was because they werent starving

[calm ibex]

akens suggestion would solve it provided it would actually be implemented any time soon, if ever

[tiny quiver]

If that is what will solve the issue then i hope that is what they implement

They added all this data tracking stuff for a reason though. They should use it

[alpine plover]

@rigid spade wdym with adjusting diet for carnos?

[rigid spade]

I think what makes them grow and do mega pack its just form S icon diet i think thats eazy well form him in adult for get thats diet If what I think seems unreasonable, I'm sorry. Because in my opinion now I think that nutrition makes them look the best. But in my personal case, But it looks easy to grow as well.But I think other dino in game could to get buff to the problem its not form diet carnos 100% but its form changing of status i think orther dino [ every ] should to get more buff and mega pack carnos and deino will gone.

[rigid spade]

My personal opinion is to take the goat out of diet carno It would be fun for the puberty. that they will have to kill each other and cut off the population instead of hoping for the developer to buff orther dino or add new the biged carnivore to be their opponent. or wait for herbivore pack kill them all.

[alpine plover]

I think the problem that causes carno megapacks is how easy is to grow one not how easy is to maintain and adult one, so removing goat would do nothing, also goat is only on the hill at ex oasis in low numbers

[dusky surge]

growth is a huge issue yea

i think it falls on the issue of all carnivores being literally braindead to grow

[rigid spade]

But personally, if removing the goat from being diet carnos for mature age. They will begin to exterminate the population among themselves.and will increase the chances or alternatives for more animals

[dusky surge]

they can still get the other two nutrients fine, or just hunt utah iirc

[rigid spade]

It will not apply for 50% carno or lower but But you will definitely see results for adult

[rigid spade]

and carnos too yeah

[dusky surge]

idk how much that'd do

people really only care about having perfect diet for growing

[rigid spade]

yes

But it is very difficult for made perfect diet in full adult and will get more hard if you Cut out their food choices that are easily available.

[alpine plover]

Most usual provider of S nutrient for carnos is utahs, believe me, removing goat wont do anything, and that is why I wouldn't care if they removed it

[dusky surge]

and? no one cares about perfect diet once adult really

carnos will still reach adult just the same

and will have nutrients from utahs, tenos, pachies and deer

nothing will really change at all

[alpine plover]

Hunting goats is already a waste of time

[rigid spade]

If they will carnibals It doesn't have the effect of reducing the population the way some people started doing it on the server, I don't know the consequences either.

[dusky surge]

the issue isn't the diet as an adult, it's the diet as a juvi

removing cannibalism from a carno's diet would be better suited for curbing megapacks than removing goats

[alpine plover]

@rigid spade welcome to ceratoU5.5playable xd

[rigid spade]

XD

[dusky surge]

no more cannibalism = can't eat your friend if they die in the megapack and gain nutrients = less ability to sustain megapacks as your own pack members do not provide nutrients = less megapacks

ironically, cannibalism aids in creating huge packs of carnos, rather than doing the opposite

[keen plover]

The idea in theory was great, since nothing can catch carnos but damn. They can bring it back with more playables

[alpine plover]

Maybe is just me but as a carno is impossible to find a pack of carnos that doesn't want my meat

[dusky surge]

Here's the simple answer to what needs to happen to prevent these carnos popping up everywhere

A: Remove the juvi diet exception. Seriously, it's fucking stupid. Scavenging, killing other juvis or eating AI is not that hard to maintain an animal, I can catch a rabbit as a juvi utah or a fish as a juvi ptera, so can everyone.
B: Heavily rework deino's diet across the board so it can remain sustainable with these diet changes.
C: Give ALL hatchlings, regardless of diet type, all three nutrients from any diet item, meaning they get a head-start in nutrients, at the cost of starting out smaller, weaker and reliant on parents to bring them said food. Don't give them all nutrients from ANY food item because again, utterly ridiculous.

[rigid spade]

Would it sound funny to add options like D. 50% carno can get maul from utahs full adult lol just prank.

[dusky surge]

what

i have no idea what you just said

[rigid spade]

ow sorry i mean

uthas can maul 50% carnos

[dusky surge]

cant they do that already

with pounce

[rigid spade]

sad

but B. is a good choices for me yeah

[dusky surge]

i mean all of them at once, not like one

[rigid spade]

yeah thats it

[hasty coyote]

@raven quest your plan for Utah is very similar to the plan for Herrera. Herrera is supposed to be able to climb very well and drop down on things below and ambush other Dinos in the trees. All they really need to do for Utah is fix its pounce imo.

[raven quest]

but will the herrera be able to pack hunt down apexes tho?

[hasty coyote]

No, that’s the difference. Utah is a large pack hunter and Herrera is the optimized jungle hunter.

[neat forge]

@raven quest thats a cool idea you have dont listen to the (X) they allways just come from Stego and Teno Boomers

[covert cave]

what

[hasty coyote]

I’m saying x or no because that feature is already planned and intended for a different Dino, not because I don’t want utahs to be good. If that is what you mean.

[covert cave]

Utahs are fine rn they just need a bug fix

[hasty coyote]

Exactly, just fix their pounce then see if they need help from there.

[fresh laurel]

When it was fixed i would say it only needed turn radius to be buffed back to update 3

[lusty berry]

Nah, there was a reason they nerfed the turn radius. I swear people are so simple minded in how to fix things.. least this is what I see in balance feed back... Hell I saw people complain about Carno stamina... If course they don't realize Carnos thing is long, drawn out chases or long duration sprints and such... It's like they don't see the point of the dinos design first .. Utah once the bugs are fixed? Will likely be fine. They are bleeders.. not marathon runners. They have better mobility in their turns than Carnos and sprint faster than Deinos.
Utah is also a pack hunter while being a bleeder.
Tenonto has been a more aggressive herbi and now aren't just safe because of their long ass tail is broken..

Take away Herbis having to not think and the "boomers" complain...

Watch when troodon is added then we'll hear "You can't see them, they are too fast and their venom is op"

[calm ibex]

i genuinely do not understand this drama

[covert cave]

Is there even drama

[fresh laurel]

what was exactly the reason to nerf turn radius on utah?

[dusky surge]

"they don't realize Carnos thing is long, drawn out chases or long duration sprints and such"

it has one of the lowest stams and highest resting stam regen of any animal, this thing is 100% not an endurance hunter, it's an ambusher, wtf

it's meant to run for 1 minute and if it doesn't catch the thing, give up and rest

[fresh laurel]

doesnt help how a drawn out fight would be horrible for carno against a utah cus bleed

[mental roost]

"They have better mobility in their turns than carnos and sprint faster than Deinos."
Deino is literally the slowest animal on land in-game right now. That's not saying much(48.5 km/h isn't bad though at all for Utah. )