balance-feedback-discussion

[wintry mountain]

Walk turn was just improved

[elder steppe]

I totally agree, all the tenos are crying now that they cant spam that move anymore, but i can actually have a fair fight 1v1 and still have a really good chance of dying. Besides the teno and pachy were never supposed to be the op dinos that they were, they are supposed to be mid teir dinos for the current game, another thing is even though those dinos arent so op anymore, a decent player can still give the average carno a very bad day

[wintry mountain]

On terms of pachy, aye, it was never meant to be this carno brawler

However it's issues are with the unreliability of rams hit detection, something that needs fixing badly

People need to take into consideration that we're playing in a roster with animals meant to be carnos prey

[teal pecan]

^ that's the main issue with getting away as pachy since you can't hit legs properly, or just can't hit what you actually want to hit properly

[elder steppe]

Oh yeah that makes sense, some of the hitboxes in the game are pretty wonky

[spare badger]

The problem now is slam costs too much for its power nerf and kicks hitbox is garbage
Honestly if they fix those 2 things teno will be perfectly fine

[ocean wagon]

I agree, pachys were out of pocket, coming from someone who’s been maining the shit out of teno and pachy. Pachy is meant to lower your movement via leg fractures and run for cover. So I really don’t care that they supposedly nerfed it’s attack damage damage. The teno vs carno match IMO isn’t even that bad. It should be a 50/50. Carno is a small game hunter and teno fits into that category. But being that teno is a brawler, it should be well adept at fending off solo carnos. A good teno can still beat the shit out of a carno player in our current patch. Teno should be screwed no matter what if two or more carnos decide that they want a teno steak.

[wintry mountain]

To be blunt

Anyone spreading the pachy damage nerf is either complaining due to its faulty hit detection(warranted), or throwing a fit that it can't brawl carno

It's damage wasn't touched, I joined a test server w/ people who thought it was, and it's still doing exactly what it did the previous patch

[spare badger]

Teno should have a ~60/40 with carno since it can't exactly run away.
If they fix pachy's hitbox it should be fine as it will fit the fracture and run playstyle
Teno's slam shouldnt cost 10% stam for a utility move like they are making slam. Give it 15 slams or so per stam bar and teno will be in a good spot if kicks hitbox is fixed

[wintry mountain]

It can very much run away, but the buffs presented I do agree with

[spare badger]

Can it? Water is a poor choice cause of Deino
I guess forests work? But with the OP scent system that doesn't help too too much
Maybe closer to 55/45 teno favour since it can escape in more specific situations

[wintry mountain]

Deino itself is a situational excuse, as it is as much of a threat to you as anything that may pursue after you in the case of water

more even as you have the fastest swim outside of deino

Scent system is broken aye, but outside of it that use of foilage and eviroment is still very effective against carno

[spare badger]

Just cause carno controls engagement it should imo be at least at a slight disadvantage (if seen)

If carno gets a charge ambush the matchup should lean towards carnos favour since the teno was not paying attention

[spare badger]

Good points

If teno sees carno first it should be Teno favour
If carno gets an ambush it should be carno favour
That's how I see it

[teal pecan]

water is a very good choice tho, since to get caught deino would have to be in almost perfect position to get a teno while carno is a lot worse swimmer and it's easier to get to it, and even if carno devides to cross the river it has to deal with teno guarding shore as well as lose some stam only to get to it

here are the numbers

so as you can see teno loses less stam when swimming through an area

and it also does it faster

[ocean wagon]

IMO even now it feels like a 60/40 like I genuinely don’t see any good tenos complaining about not being able to win a 1v1 against a carno. Most complaints are about teno being overwhelmed by the mega packs of carno which is its own separate problem

[spare badger]

I have 2 problems
Kick doesn't work
There's never only 1 carno

And it also feels wrong for teno slam to still cost 10% stam despite being severely weakened

That's the only 'buff' I want for teno

Slam shouldnt cost that much anymore

[ocean wagon]

Me personally I haven’t come across any bugs with the kick, and there never being just 1 carno is separate balance issue from teno 1v1ing a carno

[ocean wagon]

That’s fair, I wouldn’t mind tail slam costing 5-7% of its stamina

[spare badger]

My feet were inside the carno's model and I did 0 damage

[spare badger]

Give me ~15 slams instead of 10

So if a second carno rolls up mid fight I have enough stam to make it to a forest or river

I've seen some people say to increase tenos stam Regen
I'm not too sure if that's necessary but I could see it working

[spare badger]

@covert cave was your issue that I said 'Tenonto' instead of Teno?

[elder steppe]

I mean if you think about it, a big dinosaur like the teno, would probably get pretty tired irl if they lifted half their bodies(which they are doin in game) and slamming it on the ground, that uses a lot of energy an i think the stam nerf makes it pretty realistic, besides as long as you dont spam it, 10 tail slams is still a lot if you land your hits and dont go full ape smash mode. The isle developers are goin more for realism and want that to be the main focus, I personally still get my butt kicked by tenos in 1v1 anyway and im not bad at pvp by any means, they just time their hits very well. The hit boxes are kinda dopey though and those need fixin

[spare badger]

Slamming half you body on the ground doesn't to very much damage anymore, so the teno should be using less stamina that before

It also helps if more carnos come about, you still have some stamina to escape
I would agree with you but tail slam does 100 less damage than before but still the same cost which makes little sense
It should still use a good amount of stamina, but now you get 14 slams rather than 10

[elder steppe]

Yes but the teno is a mid teir dino, it isnt supposed to be able to do stupid amount of damage and flatten dinos essentially, it still does plenty of damage to defend( which is what herbivores mainly did irl) not going around and intentionally brawling carnivores, besides teno players still have a very good chance in winning a confrontation against a carno, you just need to time your hits like i said, not spam them which was the main strategy before patch, i know because i play teno as well

[spare badger]

I agree, it shouldn't do lots of damage, and teno shouldnt spam them when it gets a stun

I don't want a damage increase

Just a stam decrease cause 1 slam isn't worth 10% of your stamina

The change isn't drastic, just 10 slams -> 14 slams
Slam will still be the utility stunning option, but it wont be as punishing to use

I much prefer what they are going for now, the high damage kick and the utility slam

Slam is just a tad too expensive

[spare badger]

Spamming slam was so boring
Now we have more options (if only the hitboxes worked lol)

@half girder carno is fine as it is (excluding diets and the OP tracking, but those aren't carno specific)

[half girder]

carno turning is pretty nuts.

[spare badger]

Problem is teno's hitboxes don't work and fractures are inconsistent

[half girder]

its capable of brawling as an ambush

[spare badger]

Only when walking, not while running

[half girder]

you can turn fast while running too lol, just tap shift

trust me ive been playing nothing but carno

[spare badger]

Carno shouldn't feel clunky at least
Walking should be fine

[half girder]

sure

but it shouldnt be brawling a pachy

[spare badger]

If pachy gets 1 hit off pachy should be able to run away

Tbh pachy isn't really a brawler

It just needs 1 hit and can escape
It's kind of a glass cannon

Pachy shouldn't be killing carno solo imo
Fracturing and escaping should be it's go-to

[half girder]

pfffff

how am i able to run down a pachy whilst leg broken cuz they missed 2 headbutts

[spare badger]

But ofc fractures don't work so in practice that's not what happens

[half girder]

its silly

[spare badger]

Since when can you run with a fractured leg?

[half girder]

i face tanked a 1v3 against pachys

[spare badger]

That's dumb

[half girder]

i mean you can..

[spare badger]

I thought you can only trot?

[half girder]

still can get pretty good distance

[spare badger]

Did they change that?

[half girder]

the game is so unbalanced rn its silly

but im not gonna keep going on free food is free food lol

[spare badger]

Is the problem that pachy's ram costs too much stamina?

[elder steppe]

Yes but you forgot my original point, that attack is a very big movement for a decently big dino, in real life that would be very exhausting, a stamina increase doesnt make sense from that point of view, is what im trying to say

[spare badger]

I see what you mean, which is why it shouldn't be doubled or anything
It should still take a good chunk of stamina but 10% is a bit much

[wintry mountain]

Dificult to judge as it refuses to work or doesn't hit where it should 80% of the time

[spare badger]

True

[wintry mountain]

Running with a fractured leg is dumb but, Pachy out brawling a carno is as equally as dumb. "Carno shouldn't brawl a pachy" Why shouldn't it? given its over 4x the size

[spare badger]

I just don't want them to overbuff it

[wintry mountain]

Pachy's entire thing is break and go, Aye that doesn't work rn

But, overbuffing or nerfing isn't a solution, fix the issue, see how it goes

[spare badger]

Yea
Pachy dies in what, 3 hits? 4?

[wintry mountain]

3 ye

[spare badger]

Yea
Fracture and run
Why I like the poor turn of ram, makes it harder to brawl

[wintry mountain]

I agree, it was the right move to make personally as the reason pachy brawled it so well aside from canceling all attacks was how well it could turn witht he charged ram

Im not opposed to lessening the nerf, but ultimately the issue is the mechanic itself

[ripe furnace]

Pachy can’t even ram in place which really sucks

[spare badger]

Like the concept art?

[wintry mountain]

Circling back, if you wanna group up and fight carno as a small guy, Utah, pounce, bleed, be smart, use enviroment, keep it sprinting and that buffed turn rate doesn't mean much

Pachy is a same lane brawler, the only time it punches is up is to cripple and go, not fight and kill

[spare badger]

Definitely

If their mechanics worked they would be pretty balanced

[covert cave]

?

[spare badger]

Why did you just put 'T E N O' ?

Just wondering

[covert cave]

Oh

No I just put teno because I was absentmindedly clicking on the reactions under your post

[spare badger]

Lmao I see ok

[covert cave]

But I do think that your teno suggestion was good so we can just pretend that’s why I did it

[elder steppe]

I do think twelve slams would be ok, for me its just the realism of the matter, for most people who weigh around 120-150 lbs jumping up and down 12 times can get the heart racing pretty good. Just imagine a creature that weighs potentially up to 20X your weight doin pretty much a jump slam 12 times and i think that would be a pretty reasonable number before it’s completely exhausted. And just drops. But i think 8% drain is good

[prime folio]

I just wish I could find other Herbivores to group up with before running into a pack of Carnos when I log into a grown dyno I have

[spare badger]

Iirc teno can jump more than it can slam

[fresh laurel]

isnt that the same with any jumper ingame?

they can jump more than they can do a rmb

[elder steppe]

Thats just bein nit picky, you know im talking about the slam

[spare badger]

Twas a joke mate, but I understand yea

[elder steppe]

Bah jokes fly over my head, all good

[spare badger]

Ayo fluff reinforcing my argument

[prime folio]

do these developers do mini-balances throughout testing, or is it a wait till the next quarterly patch type deal

[spare badger]

They wait a very long time before balance patches
Usually come with content patches

[prime folio]

Is that more a strat to change metas every so often and not really worry about small imbalances in the game you think?

[elder steppe]

I dont know i think its just a quality thing. They dont want it to turn out like legacy where every patch would end up breaking something else.

[prime folio]

I can see that for content, but not for a small stamina requirement adjustment.

[elder steppe]

Don’t know then. Thats pretty much the only reason i can think of, other than releasing big patches instead of small but frequent ones. Could just be a preference

[slim dragon]

Is spelling bite "bight" a new trend I'm too french to understand ?

[dusky surge]

i mean

people spell utah utha

this isnt out of the realm of the possibility for the isle discord

[slim dragon]

Damn
Tfw you're better at english than native english speakers

[dusky surge]

its specifically raptor fans who have the worst english

idk what it is about raptor

but all the raptor fans always have at least 5 typos in their feedback

[slim dragon]

Makes sense
Raptors probably were'nt really good english speakers

Nor writers

[covert cave]

"but raptors were highly advanced in intelligence!!1!1!!1"

[elder steppe]

@vale harness yeah i think lengthing how far apart the blue tracks actually are, especially in heavily wooded areas like forest would be a pretty good idea

[vale harness]

yeah for sure

[carmine patrol]

or maybe making the blue "Pizza slice thingy" like a scanner so that you'd have to scan the ground for footprints

[elder steppe]

Yes that sounds really good, that gives a opportunity for escape tactics from the dinos being hunted and would definitely make the chase a bit more suspenseful

[sinful cove]

On that latest feedback, Im sure the devs know theyve fucked up balance again on this patch but they rarely make balance changes outside of their big patches that take forever. Im sure if we wait a few months they’ll make another balance patch where they make something else op and nerf different animals in to irrelevancy

[carmine patrol]

and they won't even change stego XD

[sinful cove]

Stego is stego lol

Tbh it shouldnt even be in the game rn

[carmine patrol]

tbh they could just revert the herbi balance changes and make juvi herbi stage a bit easier and it'll all be fine

[sinful cove]

Maybe theyll give it 100x damage head multiplier because the people asking for more dead damage and the devs only make big balance patches

[carmine patrol]

yep, we'll prob wait 2-3 weeks for the next balance patch

[sinful cove]

I wish theyd at least try to switch things up by doing more frequent, smaller balance patches for a while

But they seem to like their big patches where they make a dozen changes even though only a few changes were really needed

[elder steppe]

@torpid gull
#balance-feedback message i would disagree with you because i already added my two cents a couple of comment above you. I dont think youtube videos are reliable sources of game information pertaining to pvp. Communication can be a huge advatage in pvp(discord) and like i said before, the carnos could be pros or the tenos could be noobs. I think the attack hit boxes are the main issue right now. Just when it comes to pvp, actually do it yourself before complaining about it. That is the most reliable way to get pvp info

[quaint merlin]

as someone whos done pvp i can confirm carnotaurus is far better than teno or pachy this patch

[elder steppe]

Yes but carnos are supposed to be. Those dinos were never meant to brawl the carno, like they did before patch

Besides i dont think they changed the carno damage. Could be wrong though

[quaint merlin]

ok, pachy can fracture and run away (in theory), but what about teno?

[carmine patrol]

so are you saying that the animals that CAN'T even run away, shouldn't be able to defend themselves either?

[elder steppe]

No herbies are supposed to be defensive. Im saying they are not supposed to go chasing the carnivores and brawling them. Thats what it was a lot before patch

[carmine patrol]

they could never catch up to a carno before the patch

[elder steppe]

Teno tail can stun its just not the main damage dealer anymore. Yes but they would chase for miles(exaggerating) thats the thing

[carmine patrol]

that's something a stupid teno would do, because you need your stam to attack and you shouldn't be wasting that stam that you might need trying to catch a carno

[quaint merlin]

whats the difference between defending against a carnivore faster than you and brawling said carnivore?

[elder steppe]

Staying together and using defensive tactics and teamwork. Not chasing them for miles away from your herd. Timing your attacks. Im sorry but the chasing happened too often to just be idiots doin it.

[carmine patrol]

what if you can't find a herd?
Are you supposed to stay there and die?

[elder steppe]

No thats where actually timing your attacks come in. The main meta before patch was spamming the tail attack or the pachy ram attack. Thats where people are actually running into problems now

[torpid gull]

@elder steppe well its just an example he took, besides that im a uber noob at carno, i grew my first one yesterday to check if its truly as OP as people say it is.
Lets just say it OP is an understatement... i went up against 4 100% grown utahs and it was eazy af, first utah died instant after he pounced me he dismounted and stood right next to me so 3bites and he was gone, next utah tried to save his buddy by pouncing me from the side, it was a great pounce but for some reason it bugged and he got stuck under me or something so yea 3 more bites and that was all in the first 25 seconds. then after that i just chased the other utahs down, they split up so i could only find and kill one of them. after that i went looking for a teno or pachy, found 2 tenos 1 was like 60%ish and the other was 100% i just rammed him and after that ass ride him while biting him to death. (he got me to half hp with like 2-3 kicks and a couple of slams... it was pathetic how easy it was to kill anything in sight.
To be honest carno needs a strong nerf or other species need a decent buff.

• Utah needs to be fixed for the love of god, utah didnt get no love from the devs since the last year or so. pounce is hella risk for 0 to low reward and its instant death vs most species if you mis. (even when u hit it you risk getting bit 2 times when dismounting and if u pounce a steg youre dead 100% after dismounting)
  utah mechanics are uber bad atm....

• Teno should not get knocked over by carnos but rather be immobilised for a second or so getting so much damage from ram and after that also geting bit in the face 3 times coz the stun is 5 seconds or so... its BS imo.

Also devs cant use the argument of balancing things for the future... thats just a bad idea in general. ''testing'', oke i would agree. but testing can be done in a few days and then hotfixing the imbalance. At this moment devs are just ruining the game for most players and the player count will drop, people will get negative impressions over the dev team, etc. ,etc.

Finally i think that the devs should be bringing out information about their ''when'', and ''why's'' certain patches happen and how their taught process goes etc.
atm it feels like there is no communication with the community (only with some of their ''core players'' i suppose)

@elder steppe

To be honest, ''being defensive'' would be nice but atm a group of 3 carnos is just to broken.
VC pro's or no VC nubs doesnt realy matter to much, there is no way to ''defend, run, team up, etc.'' anyway

[elder steppe]

First off killing a utah in 3 hits makes sense for an adult carno. Second off, my main is carno their attack do plenty damage, though their teno kick does need a good buff and hitbox tuning. The carno damage as far as i know wasnt changed only their acceleration and a slight turn buff

I cant speak for utahs though so i will take your word for it

[torpid gull]

3 hits doesnt make sense?

they did realy die tho

normally it takes less or more?

when i was playing utah i got 1 shotted by a carno even

rammed and i was dead

[elder steppe]

No it does make sense. Carnos are so much bigger than utahs. The ram does a bit more damage. Imagine getting rammed at high soeeds by something weighing much much more than you do. It wouldnt be pretty

Besides you only need to run left or right to avoid the ram. The carnos have always been utah killers, even in legacy

[torpid gull]

i think they should be able to kill a utah but as of now 4 utahs can barely kill a carno.
2v1 or 1v1 is in no way possible unless its god vs new player

[carmine patrol]

teno also needs it's tail slam to be fixed bc it takes 10% of your stam and does an abysmal amount of dmg

[elder steppe]

That i think is actually pretty realistic. I cant imagine a 1 ton animal normally being able to do that attack over 12 time consecutively. I think 12 slams is a good number though. Not enough to spam, but enough to defend or stun a couple of aggresors

[torpid gull]

@elder steppe nah thats just dumb man, you're not even responding on the mans statement you're just talking about a stam to tailslam ratios

[carmine patrol]

if that's the case they should make it do as much dmg as it did on the last patch but make the stun shorter (2sec stun so that the teno can only slam twice instead of 3 times) or make it do even more damage but remove the stun or make the teno stam regen better

[torpid gull]

@elder steppe if you want to respond onto something respond on the whole message or just stfo, stop trying to debate half a statement ffs

[torpid gull]

^^

[elder steppe]

I dont agree with making the damage what it was, but i can concede that a decent buff would do a lot of good, and there is no need for the hostility ILikeThickCarnos, this is a debate. Nothing more

[torpid gull]

@elder steppe then debate full statements and stop responding to half of a sentence... no one is claiming half statements so no one wants you to respond to half statements.. mr debate

[elder steppe]

Meh i debated the points i disagreed with, my main thing is the stamina cost, i think 12 hits is a good limit, im not debating on whether or not the attacks should be buffed or not. It was my mistake not reading that full post, but that doesn’t warrant outright hostility

[torpid gull]

i respond bad to half debaters... cant help myself

[elder steppe]

All good

[azure crescent]

teno is supposed to brawl though?

[elder steppe]

When i mean brawl, i mean chasing carnivores way past whats reasonable and still trying to fight them, happened quite frequently. Just seems unrealistic of any herbivore to do that. i always thought of them as being the sentimental of the herd, being fast enough to protect each other from multiple carnivores circling a herd. However they do need a damage buff to either the kick or tail.

[azure crescent]

i think the tail damage is fine how it is, it just needs less stam cost, and for the kick its just a hitbox fix
also i get its unreasonable to chase carnivores away for very long distances but you can't exactly control what the players do

[elder steppe]

Thats true, but i think thats what the stam cost prevents them or at least deterrs them from doin that, plus reducing the spam

[azure crescent]

holy shit i misunderstood your original suggestion so bad

my bad man, i agree with you

[elder steppe]

I think a a bit less stam cost would be good, to move the amount from 10 slams to 12. All good, somtimes i mess up my own argument

[azure crescent]

its fine dw about it

[elder steppe]

✌️

[fresh laurel]

Utah love perhaps?

Everyone talks teno, carno and pachy but no one mentions utah dismount letting it get hit

[elder steppe]

Yeah thats a bit dopey when that happens

[fresh laurel]

For stego its not even worth pouncing lmao

Carno could just time the bite to get a hit off your dismount

Hell if you time it right for any animal they can bite you in dismount

Due to the weird endlag

Utah pounce feels meh thx to the dismount ngl

[elder steppe]

Agreed my guy, i think they should be able to take off running or at least jump further away

[fresh laurel]

Maybe both tbh

If you get further not sure if something could still range ya with the endlag you got

[elder steppe]

Also ptera, i tried kamikazeing a raptor and all i did was splat on the ground and gave it free lunch lol

[fresh laurel]

I think running off is the best

[elder steppe]

Yeah

[fresh laurel]

I think that would help utah the best tbh

In a fight ngl

[elder steppe]

Yep

[fresh laurel]

But uh do you think utah will see any love besides climbing

[elder steppe]

I dont know, dont really play it often so other than the pounce didsmount, i cant say much about it, but every dino deserves the love

[fresh laurel]

Fun fact

To the ppl that say ram can one shot utah

It cant

Headshot cant

[elder steppe]

I havent managed to, but that is a fun fact

[fresh laurel]

Ppl keep saying it can lol

[elder steppe]

Meh the only times i frequently get rams off is when im a baby carno hounding a baby stego, it’s actually a really fun fight

[fresh laurel]

Brings me onto my next request

Nerf stego younger stage

Ita tail spikes are pretty dull when a baby so them doing the dmg it does is weird ngl

[elder steppe]

I dont know, they are a high priority target for pretty much every carnivore

[fresh laurel]

Also if stego becomes god at adult then... make it harder to grow

[wintry mountain]

Gotta remember you need to balance that out without it being outright fodder

[elder steppe]

I dont know, their tale attack is the only thing the chubby cute babies have goin for them

[fresh laurel]

They mostly guarded by their 20483828284 families

[wintry mountain]

Juvie stegs are already pretty easy to abuse due to their small hit range and the attacks predictability

[fresh laurel]

I mean werent devs intent to make apexes be unappealing to grow in order to avoid legacy

[elder steppe]

I just noticed the cursed image of buff otice wtf

[wintry mountain]

[fresh laurel]

[stark knoll]

Difficult =/= unappealing to most

[wintry mountain]

Unappealing /=/ fodder

Which is what I see most people wanting from juvie stego

[fresh laurel]

To make it fodder?

[wintry mountain]

Ye

[fresh laurel]

I mean i kinda just wanna see some sort of dmg nerf

It can stay the most tanky juvie

[wintry mountain]

It still needs to be capable of defending itself when it's to size, and compared to the adult it's a lot easier to predict and bait in my experience

[fresh laurel]

Doesnt adult have weird hitbox?

[wintry mountain]

At this rate of stuff breaking for no reason, who knows

Utah pounce go brr

[fresh laurel]

Pov

Utah pounce is "perfect"

Pounce getting love when doe

[wintry mountain]

In my experience of dealing with juvie stegos tho, its mainly when fighting one's pretty much as big as a utah

As anything smaller is usually just, food

And yeah pounce/bucking need a major tlc

[fresh laurel]

Is it just me or taking as long as it does to kill boar with pin feels weird

[fresh laurel]

If you could change bucking how would you change it

[wintry mountain]

Basically make Two different variations.

One thst is more lethal and stamina costly but will throw utahs off very easily(regulated to standing still

Current buck(anything else)

Environmental use, sprinting into a solid object causes them to dismount

Likewise walking up to an object allows you to slam your body into it, crushing/knocking off the utah

[fresh laurel]

Ok now how woild you go about pounce

[wintry mountain]

Likewise pounce would become something more similar to old legacy pounce.

Having to manually attack while also having the new ability to brace during bucking

Pounce would also lose the dumb fling start up, and instead relying on you running up or jumping at the target to latch

And last but not least a chargeable dismount at the cost of stamina that will propel you further at the cost of stamina(think hypsi jump)

The last point basically being, simply releasing drops you next to the target, where a full charge will cause a propelled leap off the side, causing a Skid animation when you land

[fresh laurel]

How much stam could a max dismount take?

[wintry mountain]

Depends on the distance but you could match it to jump stam drain

Given its a safe get out of jail card

[fresh laurel]

I like the ideas ngl

And legacy pounce could let you catch a ride on carno?

[half girder]

can’t wait for the skin system so i can look drippy while killing pachys and tenos

haha someone saw the video of me n others slaughtering 6 tenos

[fresh laurel]

devs working so hard on skin system

every utah main in the world : Indoraptor skin go brrrr

[half girder]

camo carno easy

make the game even easier

ptera is so boring lol

jesus idk how people literally just fly around and stare at things all day

go carno and get free kills!

[fresh laurel]

stego camo

[half girder]

oh nonono

[fresh laurel]

pachy camo

utah camo ayo

[half girder]

i can face tank pachy 😎

so pachy isn’t scary at all

[fresh laurel]

think of all the utah sized dinos tho

[half girder]

utahs are easy to kill aswell

[fresh laurel]

mono gonna haves its shit scared out of it with camo pachy

[half girder]

learning to bait pounce

pachy will just hit it and run 😴

hopefully pot pachy can kill things that try to face tank it without running out of stam in 3 attacks

[sinful cove]

Detra be spamming just about every react in the book on that feedback lmao

[sinful cove]

considering the upvote for the latest feedback i think detra got whooshed by bran's

[ocean wagon]

I saw the video of 3 carnos killing 6 tenos. The tenos were all bad and completely not aware of their surroundings during the engagement. The carnos were doing the most simple and linear tactic of run in a straight line and charge over and over again. The teno died purely to a skill issue.

Complaining that carno charge needs to be shit nerfed because 6 tenos couldn’t be aware of their surroundings is dumb

[rancid bluff]

I video of a stego with a baby pachy, the stego went all the way to swamp to get that baby pachy melons
while it was eating a carno came out of the bushes and took the pachy away
that's what carno should be able to do and I'm glad for that, but take on entire herds with one or 2 carnos? no, that should never happen

I saw another video of 2 carnos kill 3 tenos and 3 pachies, one of those tenos and pachys ambushed the carnos, or tried, but the carnos won anyways

[ocean wagon]

If the collective iq of the herd is roughly the same amount of its members then they should be punished for being bad

[rancid bluff]

this was all in the same fight, only one carno ran off to heal and the other carno solo'd the rest

[ocean wagon]

Then it’s a skill issue if 3 tenos can’t take on two carnos being that teno can still 1v1 a carno in our current patch

[elder steppe]

Can i get the link to that video, i wants to watch

[rancid bluff]

if I can find it

[elder steppe]

Thx bud

[rancid bluff]

pretty sure this is the video of the carnos massacring a herd
https://youtu.be/86STfCiDhyU

[ocean wagon]

Why should the carno automatically lose just because the herd has more members. If the entire herd is being dumb and have 0 idea on how to defend themselves, then the carno should be rewarded on its kill

Don’t reward people for doing mistakes

Smh

[rancid bluff]

it shouldn't automatically lose, it should have to actually try to win instead of just spam bite and spam ram until it wins

[sinful cove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F2pSvleJWs

[ocean wagon]

If you allow a carno to spam bite it’s way to victory I think that says more about your skill level if the carno beats you

Especially if you’re playing teno

[rancid bluff]

oh yeah cause teno's completely powerful with its inconsistent kick hitbox and pitiful tail slam

[elder steppe]

My only complaint about how those tenos fought is that they didnt manage their stam that well, they kept tail slamming when they didnt really need to. Wasteful stam use

[rancid bluff]

out of the like 20 videos I've watched of update 4.5 carno vs teno, I have only seen the kick land on a carno once

[elder steppe]

Yeah the kicks are pretty busted, the tail is pretty good though about the hit box

[ocean wagon]

The tail is very much usable in a fight and so are it’s claws if your back kick starts glitching out

I’ve 1v1 and killed carnos as my teno in the current patch. Please don’t play it off that teno is just meals on wheels if a solo carno strolls up

Back kick is useful for stunning carno but isn’t necessary to do so when you can use your tail to do the same

[rancid bluff]

here's a video demonstrating the shit that pachy and teno are dealing with
https://youtu.be/nQA54SnWosI

[ocean wagon]

shows a video where carnos land a stun on both tenos from the get go and focus one target to shred its HP quickly while the other teno is recovering

Cracked indeed

The carnos even accidentally charged its own team mate to get to the teno lmfao. Kav then gets stunned by a teno and the second carno wraps around and gets nothing but head shots on the teno that is completely focused on tail slamming Kav. And once the stun is over Kav joins his teammate in biting the teno and then they kill it

What’s so OP about that

[rancid bluff]

he literally tail rides a teno in the second fight

he tail rides a tail slamming teno

and wins, losing a quarter of his health

it's the pachy vs carno fights in that video that really bothered me

[elder steppe]

That is true, i think the stam should allow 12 slams and up the damage a bit so its a better deterrent. I think i skipped past the pachy fight so i cant say anything about that

Those carnos were had good tactics though and looked to main that dino, even before patch, not totally sure

[sinful cove]

i wouldnt even say the carnos had good tactics they just spammed charge and bit eachother during the fight

and still won lmao

[elder steppe]

Yeah “tactics”

[sinful cove]

then the pachy vs carno, the carno is still terminator mode with a broken leg

because of the tracking system

[hollow canyon]

Tenontos played that much worse, they landed hits on each other including a headshot in the beginning of the second round.

[sinful cove]

in the forest where carno is supposed to be bad

[hollow canyon]

But yea tracking system is cancer and Tenonto and Pachy need a buff

[ocean wagon]

Tail rides the teno that got tail slammed by its team mate and had 2 carnos consistently hitting it plus charge damage??? Lmfao how much do you want tenos to be able to take

[hollow canyon]

I'd get rid off that nerfed turn rate on Pachy's ram, that's just a joke

Tenonto also needs less stamina cost on the tailslam although it's the kick that dishes out the real damage now

[rancid bluff]

when the fight first started the pachy was doing good, I was like "oh I guess carno vs pachy is fine then, just go into the trees" then the carno's leg breaks and he becomes a endurance demon

[elder steppe]

Yeah i think the tracking system needs some balancing, maybe the length between tracks is longer, or someone suggested earlier that the fan portion of the tracks is an action that can be used to find more tracks, giving more time for the hunted to get away

[sinful cove]

ngl though that was hilarious and it kinda makes me want to get back on and be part of the carno cancer again

[hollow canyon]

Carno wasn't an endurance demon there though, it was Pachy that kept on coming back to it and ramming it repeatedly

[ocean wagon]

Literally the only buff teno needs right now is stam management on its tail slam and a better hitbox for back kick

[hollow canyon]

^

Idk about the kick, I honestly haven't had issues landing it but it does look questionably bad on that video

[ocean wagon]

I haven’t either but people say it exists so

[elder steppe]

If that makes sense, i explained it funny

[hollow canyon]

No, I mean there's a point where Tenonto kicks and it kind of looks like it should've landed

[rancid bluff]

it's not a matter of how much I damage want teno to take, it's a matter of how much damage I want teno to give
the tail slam is good, just needs to reduce the stamina cost
kick is also good, just needs a better hitbox
idk about the claw attack though, I haven't seen enough of that

[hollow canyon]

I think at least

claw attack is kind of bad vs Carno

I've tried using it vs Carno once to see how it goes

[ocean wagon]

Teno damage is good for its tail slam though??? Anything higher and it’s busted

[rancid bluff]

that's what I said

[hollow canyon]

it's ugh... kind of bad because while the dps is decent the issue is that Carno won't be taking a long trade

[rancid bluff]

that the tail slam is fine, it just needs to reduce stamina cost

[hollow canyon]

yea, definitely Tenonto shouldn't be running out fo stam that fast with an attack that had its damage decreased

[ocean wagon]

Claws are good for keeping Utahs at bay for stam regen from my experience, I barely use it in carno fights

[elder steppe]

Yeah i think the devs want the tail slam to not do much damage and be used as a stun utility

[hollow canyon]

Yea, they are good against Utahs

[elder steppe]

They want the kick to be main damage

[hollow canyon]

I tried testing it vs Carno by stunning and then following with the claws

but it's just a bad idea

it would probably work if you both stood still and facenktanked each other

although even that depends with Carno's alt bite

[elder steppe]

Yeah isnt that the front attack, i think low damage but higher bleed would be good for it

[hollow canyon]

kick is the best tool vs Carno atm

yea, it could definitely use a slight buff to its bleed

[elder steppe]

Yep

[hollow canyon]

although it would likely remain inferior to kick anyways

I don't think you'd want to use it vs Carno even with a 2x bleed multiplier

[elder steppe]

True, just doesnt do enough damage

I think its prolly best for chasing off raptors

[rancid bluff]

the claw attack should be useful at least a little against carno, they have pretty big claws, getting scratched in the face by that while stunned should give a lot of damage

[hollow canyon]

I've proposed buffing claw damage(back in update 3.5) and was against giving it a stam cost but the issue is that if you buff it to make it better vs Carno that attack ends up turning Utahs into minced meat

[rancid bluff]

personally I like utahs having to have pretty big packs against tenos, it's really cool to watch a bunch of utahs mauling a teno, I saw a video of like 10 utahs killing a teno and then when they killed it all of them got on top of the body and started eating it, there were so many the teno's ragdoll started jumping

[hollow canyon]

I don't think Utahs should require a pack of 10 to take on a single Tenonto

[rancid bluff]

yeah definitely not need 10, I think at minimum it should take 3? good utahs

[hollow canyon]

I think 3 is a sensible number to have a good fight but it's just hard to say what the requirements exactly should be because all those match ups change quite a bit based on how good the player controlling the animal is

[rancid bluff]

yeah that's why I'm not sure about 3, I think 3 good utahs should win against teno and 5 average utahs win

[hollow canyon]

I think it's more dependent on Tenonto's skill

you shouldn't need 5 Utahs to take down an average Tenonto

then again it's really hard to say what an average Tenonto is

[spare badger]

My guess is 3 Utah's, maybe 4? Haven't fought Utah's this patch

[hollow canyon]

I have fought them a moment ago

a pack of ~10

killed 2 and walked away

idk what they were doing tbh, I shoul've died there imo

[spare badger]

Last patch a pack of ~8 Utahs attacked me at oasis
My only chance was to try and get to the river but I ran out of stam and died before I made it (the Utah's actually knew how to play, I was surprised)

[fresh laurel]

by knew how to play...

what did they do right?

[spare badger]

They pounced and didn't run into my tail
They subbed our members when they got low stam

Basically they were probably in a call

[fresh laurel]

its sad when you realize utah is meant to play this good but in a no 3rd party world pack gameplay isnt the best

[spare badger]

They were coordinated and knew how to use the animal

[fresh laurel]

yea but if they were stuck with pack chat...

[spare badger]

Yea

[fresh laurel]

what if...

chat had some automated commands you could do

like press one button and it says i need stam

or on me

would make pack hunting a whole lot better

[spare badger]

Would be cool, preset messages

[fresh laurel]

I think if they were to add that it would really help the pack players who dont want to hop into a vc or people who dont use discord

plus sometimes packs only want to use vc and will not invite a non vc

[hollow canyon]

wouldn't be much of a difference tbh in a 8v1 situation

[fresh laurel]

more utahs would die compared to a vc pack

due to them not knowing who is gonna move in most of the time

[hollow canyon]

When i was testing Utahs vs Stego with Nova and a few other folks we were taking one down having some ~6 people without using VC

2-3 people typically died in the process but that's Stego

[scarlet onyx]

wow tenos kick is way too fucking good. why was this needed

[sinful cove]

i think carno also needs a swim speed buff because ocasionally a tenonto gets away from me if he's lucky enough to be near a river and a deino isn't there. this is simply unacceptable!

[verbal iris]

Carnotaurus should have an 100% kill rate like all carnivores have in real life

[sinful cove]

carno charge should shatter stego's ribs and puncture its lungs

[verbal iris]

If we're being realistic a carno should 1 shot anything with a head bite

[sinful cove]

honestly, why isnt carno biting utahs in half? they made it so underpowered from what is was in real life, realistically it could use its charge to scoop up a deino on its horns and throw it 200 feet in the air

[dusky surge]

carno more like carYES to all these amazing ideas

[verbal iris]

You know what

I think carno needs a stationary head swing attack to counter the low tiers it has such a difficult time agaisnt

[sinful cove]

good idea, a stationary head swing that gave carno the same results as a charge would finally make it a viable animal

[mental roost]

Give Carnotaurus 3,000+ N bite force as well so that it finally does more damage than a human .

[verbal iris]

Also give it momentum based damage so it can 1 shot a teno if it's running downhill

[sinful cove]

scientifically accurate carnotaurus had a bite force that rivaled even t rex, it only makes sense that he should have 3,000N bite with high fracture output to deal with all the super overpowered pachies

[dusky surge]

you guys remember the disney movie where the carnotaurus was the main antagonist? yea all carnos should be that size

[mental roost]

70 ft long Carnotaurus is balanced

[verbal iris]

Also give it a health buff and remove utahs Ability to give it bleed, since it had tough hide

[sinful cove]

that disney carno beat up iguanadons, it was very realistic. the carno was almost half as strong as the real carnotaurus was, a vast improvement form the isle. the isle really should look more at hollywood films for balance advice in their game

[mental roost]

Oh and nerf Tenoto's tail slam and kick damage. A heavy object slamming down shouldn't be doing that much damage to the CHAD Carnotaurus.

[mental roost]

Rodan sized Quetz.

[dusky surge]

dont even get me STARTED on hypo carno

[sinful cove]

why would they lock carno's potential behind hyperendocrin?? normal carno should be that strong its bs, hyper carno is pretty realistic

[verbal iris]

Dude teno is so op, if we're being realistic it shouldn't do any damage to carno, and very little to utah

[dusky surge]

simple. We make carno hypo strength then make hypo even stronger, ez

honestly why do we even HAVE playable herbivores? they're just fodder after all

[sinful cove]

smh tenonto is just a hadrosaur????/? it should eat grass and then die

[verbal iris]

TRUE

[sinful cove]

all herbivore players are just there to feed carnotaurus

[dusky surge]

like when in nature do we ever see a herbivore kill an adept hunter like carnotaurus? exactly

[verbal iris]

Honestly make all herbivores ai

[mental roost]

Utah players are also just there to be Carnotaurus food

[sinful cove]

we need to add triceratops ai so carno has something that almost puts up a fight against it

[dusky surge]

the food chain is simple.
Carno >>>>>> utah >>>>>> everything else

[verbal iris]

Herbivores should be given a debuff whenever they attack another creature

[sinful cove]

everything else in the game is there for one putpose; carnotaurus food

[verbal iris]

To punish such unrealistic behavior

[sinful cove]

herbivores shouldnt be allowed to deal damage to carnivores it shouldnt even register smh herbivores never fight irl

[dusky surge]

i think if a herbivore gets near the mighty carnotaurus, it should have a fear debuff for being in the presence of such a mighty beast and get a 75% damage debuff

[verbal iris]

Don't even get me started on herbivores killing eachother

[mental roost]

Stego's thagomizers should make a squeak noise and bounce off whenever they hit a carnotaurus, and only throw a Utah around without actually hurting it, smh.

[verbal iris]

Its ludicrous

[sinful cove]

when ever a carnivore broadcasts it should make all herbivores in the area get a debuff where they involuntarily throw up and run in circles out of sheer terror

[dusky surge]

i've been saying this for years and no one's been listening to me

[sinful cove]

stego is so op unrealistic smh they didnt even put rubber balls at the ends of its spikes like it had irl so it wouldnt hurt anyone

[dusky surge]

everyone knows one swift charge from a carnotaurus could fracture an anky's armour, making for an easy meal from the soft interior

[sinful cove]

in real life stego used its thagomizers to harvest berries and nothing else

[verbal iris]

This Abilty should stack, multiplying if you have more carnis

It only makes sense

[dusky surge]

but here's my question. why does PTERA get a free pass from surviving carnotaurus, just because it can FLY?!

i think something needs to be done

[mental roost]

Ark moment.

[sinful cove]

right?? its stupid af, why is ptera in the game if carno cant eat it when ever it wants?

carno needs a super high jump and a glide ability using its flapping arms

then ptera can finally be the carno prey item it deserves to be

[verbal iris]

Carno should be able to 1 call in a pteras direction, causing a current of air to knock pteras out of the sky

[sinful cove]

thats a good idea, carno utilized soundwave attacks in real life so it should also do so in game

[mental roost]

Let's make Ptera able to 1 v 1 Utah on the ground so that Carno can kill both parties.

[sinful cove]

everything that isnt carno should be as strong as current ptera so it can evenly fight the other carno prey items

[verbal iris]

Carnos 1 call should deafen all herbivores in a mile radius

Ambushing is so hard as it is

[sinful cove]

the sonic waves from carno 1 call should apply full body and head fracture to all nearby non-carnos

[verbal iris]

A 3 call should give any herbi a heart attack and instantly kill it

[mental roost]

Let's make it so that Carno also can't friendly fire one another, rewarding mob behavior and spam biting so it can have more even footing in the roster.

[sinful cove]

the 3 call is super duper scary so it only makes sense that the weak herbivores would have a heart attack and die like a startled rabbit, which is also an herbivore so i have strong evidence to back this

[sinful cove]

if a carno bites another carno it should just give both carnos a teamwork buff that increases both of their attack damage and also heals them

[verbal iris]

Goats are herbivores too right, they faint wherever it thunders

Herbivores should faint at any loud noise

[sinful cove]

goats and tenontos both have 4 legs and eat leaves so i think it is realistic that a tenonto becomes paralyzed and falls over if a carno enters the premises

[verbal iris]

Carno should be able to charge through trees and rocks with no cost to health speed or stam

Its just too difficult to keep up with things in forests

[mental roost]

Carno should be able to facetank Stego, Triceratops, Diabloceratops and Tenotosaurus with ease, and be able to endurance hunt Shantungosaurus, smh. Carnotaurus hunted sauropods so I have strong evidence for my claim.

[sinful cove]

what baffles me is how they didnt even give carno venom. we all know that vipers, who have sharp teeth, have venom, but carno doesn't have venom, even though he has sharp teeth? i think that similarity between carno and venomous snake teeth clearly justify making it a venomous dinosaur, like it probably was in real life

[mental roost]

Carnotaurus should be able to camouflage at will like it did in the Jurassic Park Novel while also being the size it was in Disney's dinosaur, and the speed of Update 3 Carno

[sinful cove]

yeah it should, it should be able to turn completely transparent. chameleons also camouflage, and they climb trees, so it is realistic that this camo carno would also be arboreal

[mental roost]

Let's have Carnotaurus also dive and swim faster so it can hunt Deinosuchus

[sinful cove]

its tail looks like it could propel it at LEAST 80km/h in the water

[normal creek]

ngl dinosaurs are cool reptiles

[dusky surge]

he's so right

[potent warren]

i would love to see size differences to male and female, solely so we dont just become a different palette swap dino

[keen plover]

Size differences in other games have been meta though

Like 1 person has a smaller hitbox but equal damage

[dusky surge]

in this game, bigger usually = better because weight

idk why you'd make an animal smaller but also same weight

[keen plover]

Yeah then you'd need stat differences in size

[sinful cove]

size also changes the stealthiness of an animal, it would need adjusted locomotion animations and also need an adjusted hitbox all just for a small aesthetic change

[elder steppe]

Imagine a chonker of a stego stalking a raptor through the woods. Immaculate

Speaking of which can stegos even crouch, ive never tried or seen any stegi crouch

[keen plover]

no they can't crouch

[elder steppe]

Huh, neat

[fresh laurel]

they shouldnt even bother tbh

they really have no reason to try to crouch in order to escape something

[hollow canyon]

Tbh I think all the herbivores should be able to crouch

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to do that

Do you need the ability to do that much as a Stego? Not really, but if you're a juvenile you might want to just crawl away not leaving the tracks

at least in certain situations

[spare badger]

I would say z walking should act like crouching for quadrapeds

So they don't have to add any animations or anything
Just disable tracks on z walking

[wise obsidian]

I think herbivores should have a "crouch" that makes them lower their body and features, not really crouch like a utah would

[spare badger]

Or make the tracks very infrequent
Just something

[spare badger]

I would like that

Especially since tracking is busted rn

[keen plover]

The whole tracking system makes it so that small quads are dead if anything spots its tracks. Heck running through a forest as an adult quad from a massive pack is still unfair as they will just find you

[hollow canyon]

^

[hollow canyon]

Kind of/sort of, I've gotten away from people even despite the tracking system but I agree that it's a bit too hard currently. Either more reliable ways of getting rid off tracks need to be introduced into the game or the tracking system has to be reworked.

[keen plover]

I'll just speak from my experience, but every time I've seen a track and decided to follow it, I've found them. Even if I haven't started off by seeing them. I feel like tracking should only work if you've specifically attacked the person or something of that nature idk

And there should be some counters as a quad to hide your tracks in some way like you've stated above

[hollow canyon]

Same however I myself have also managed to lose people

I typically used water to do that

which is part of the reason why I'm unhappy with how it works right now

[keen plover]

Assuming as a teno?

[hollow canyon]

yea

I play Tenonto the most right now

[keen plover]

Because other quads probably won't be as good as that in the future- heck even stego can't really lol

[hollow canyon]

Yea, I know, they should be allowed to crouch or something

it's silly that they can't just because they walk on four legs which Tenonto shouldn't even do in the first place but oh well

[spare badger]

Teno was a biped, or both?

[hollow canyon]

It was a bipedal animal yea

at least to my knowledge, I think that's up to date though

[spare badger]

Interesting
All the art I see of it is quad

[hollow canyon]

From what I remember it's currently considered to be a strictly bipedal animal although maybe I'm remembering it incorrectly

not that it matters - quadrupedal or not it should be allowed to crouch

[spare badger]

Actually all of it I can't find a biped one

[hollow canyon]

#paleotalk message

This is a short discussion about this in paleotalk

if you want to read that up

Basically its forelimbs were robust enough to seemingly allow it for quadrupedal locomotion however its centre of mass and pelvic musculature suggest that it was bipedal. It's possible that it could move both ways too.

But from what I've been hearing lately it was mainly/solely a bipedal animal.

[spare badger]

I see
It's legs are quite long

Probably moved like Iguanadon did, using both

[hollow canyon]

From what I'm reading further the arms likely couldn't bear the weight after all, I'm having some mixed messages here - it seems like bipedal locomotion is more likely and a safer bet.

Still - there's no reason why quadrupeds shouldn't be able to crouch to cover their tracks if you ask me.

[spare badger]

Definitely

[alpine plover]

@alpine plover the problem with your suggestion from 3 days ago is that playables cant be able to hunt only ehat they are supposed to because of the amount of playables, rn carno cant just be only a small prey hunter because the only small herbivore easy to find is pachy (dryo and hypsi are barely played and also give too little food) when the small tier roster is added ( and are really played so you dont find them just 1/100 times) i wouldnt care making carno the small prey hunter it is supposed to be

@sly pilot pachys now have higher chances to lose against a carno in 1vs1, and that looks like something wrong for you, it has to be like that, pachy is not a teno, is not supposed to have 50% win rate against carno, pachys being afraid of carno is something that should have happened since pachy was added

@alpine plover is funny reading this guy complaining that pachys are now afraid of carnos and dont have the disadvantage in a 1vs1

[hasty coyote]

Pachies should not be able to 1v1 carnos, but they should be able to escape the encounter. The break and run strategy is the main thing I want. If pachy has no way to survive an encounter, then why play it? Why not play carno or stego and survive or escape from most fights? The best way I can put it is like in nature, lions only have a successful hunt like 10-20% of the time. Carno only has to kill 1 pachy every once in a while, so make it hard to kill a good pachy and easy to kill an unaware or bad pachy.

The fights are not too bad at the moment, but the issue is the escape. The only way I have been able to escape a carno is by running to a larger herbivore or into the woods.

[alpine plover]

Pachy definitely shouldn’t be 1v1 Carnos but they should be break and running. I think the ram turn was unnecessary and all you need to do is lower the actual damage of the ram but make fractures more consistent to encourage them to not fight, and just escape

Teno just needs less stam on the slam and to make the kick more effective with hitboxs and maybe a little more damage

[wise sparrow]

@random prairie while we're at it, let's get legacy carno's stamina back. After all, an animal that relies on speed should be capable of running for a long time

[alpine plover]

Actully yes

[wise sparrow]

@mild basin oh come on you're not even trying to make it look legit

[mild basin]

🤡

Also make it that when 3 calling as a carno every herbivor in a 200 meter radius just instantly dies

[hasty coyote]

That would basically just save time lol

[random prairie]

What it really needs is a head swing atm. Anything lower weight should be down on its knees. How dare them approach us.

[hasty coyote]

Pachy alt attack for carno

[wise sparrow]

After all, pachy evolved from dryo like animals so it should be a small prey animal.

And teno looks like a hadrosaur and how dare those things be viable?!

[hasty coyote]

Imagine being a herbivore that can win a fight. Only stego can appreciate it

[wise sparrow]

Add allo to kill stego and make it an endurance predator cause right now herbivores dont have enough to worry about

They only get insta killed by ONE animal!!! Its not fair that herbivores only have 1 animal that can effortlessly kill them. A herbivore's place in the ecosystem is to die!!!!

[keen plover]

Unfortunately, herbivore is fodder. Weep losers. This is carnos ERA!

[sly pilot]

@alpine ploverI mean, even if Karno breaks his leg, peachy still has little chance of escaping.

[alpine plover]

Fractured carno is slower than pachy, I dont see how pachy cant scape

[mild basin]

I like what i started

[alpine plover]

I actually wouldn’t mind this if they made its turning worse. Otherwise if they want it having good turning, bad stam

[wise sparrow]

Yea but then everything else would need stamina buffs so their stam time doesn't look laughable, and that would just cause all sorts of fun balance issues

Imagine carno, but it could outstam utah

[alpine plover]

Lol yeah. Maybe not entirely legacy Carno stam. But definitely good stam for what evrima stam is

Would definitely help it become less of an Allosaurus on steroids and more of an actual Carno

[dusky surge]

@hexed sorrel i dont understand why you want carno to go back to how it was in update 4 then proceed to massively buff up the tailslam of teno, leading to the exact same issues we had in update 4 lmao

also fracture isn't % or chance based

[alpine plover]

Perhaps leave Carno as it is, then buff Teno kick/revert pachys ram and see how that goes

[wise sparrow]

Yea it's more reasonable to buff instead of nerf. If we cant buff the herbivores without it becoming ridiculous, then carno is obviously overtuned and should then get nerfed

[alpine plover]

I feel Carno is fine rn and to buff/fix Teno/pachy so it doesn’t cause issues with future playables being too strong

[dusky surge]

nerfing carno solves nothing but make more animals feel worse

[alpine plover]

^

[dusky surge]

buff the other animals

specifically pachy and teno

[alpine plover]

[alpine plover]

Yes, devs did it wrong, first you buff the diaadvantaged playables, if thta doesnt work then you start nerfing the strong playables

People you are so annoying

Carno doesnt need nerfs

The others do need buffs

[unborn iris]

Carno didn't need faster standing turn rate. That seems more like something for a brawler.

[alpine plover]

Yes, revert turn rate (while charging and running) but everything else is ok

[unborn iris]

Pretty sure they only buffed turn rate while standing still.

Oh nvm.. they did charge too.

[alpine plover]

The problem people has is with turn speed while charging not when turning around, turning around speed wasnt modified

[unborn iris]

Turn in place rate slightly increased. (Turns better).

[alpine plover]

I dont play utah so i guess that why I didnt notice, cause turning in place doesnt affect the other playables against carno

[unborn iris]

Yeah, I'm not sure why I still try. I guess it's more fun with a bigger group in VC, anything else you just steamroll everything.

[ripe furnace]

Abelisaurs are brawlers

[dusky surge]

Carno shouldn't be though

[wise sparrow]

Yea and Utahraptor was a feathered solo hunter that ate microfauna. This game isn't completely realistic and throws realism out for balance sometimes. Carno literally camt be paleo accurate without being completely busted against half our roster

[ripe furnace]

I dunno could be fun

[ripe furnace]

Most of the roster can take it as far as I know

Kentro gets it pachy gets it

Uh

Para too maybe

[wise sparrow]

Para would fuck up both in game carno and irl carno. You'd need like 5 working together to kill it

[ripe furnace]

Nah I’d say like 2 or 3

Nah just 3

[wise sparrow]

Pffft. A 6 ton death cow will not die to 3 1.7 ton small game hunter

Para isn't a small meat sack like in movies

[ripe furnace]

I said 3 of them

Oh i misread

They’d still get well over 2 tones

[slim dragon]

6 ton is an outdated estimate concerning para, just saying
afaik now it's closer to 10 tons

[ripe furnace]

Almost 3 if very big

[ripe furnace]

Wow nevermind

However there should be some nuance

[wise sparrow]

Para in game will likely get 6 tons as to not basically be "Shant but not"

[ripe furnace]

Lions kill Buffalo despite weighing like 3x less

And there only has to be like 2

[slim dragon]

Yeah you're right. This confirms your preivous point even further

[slim dragon]

Lions are more comparable to Isle utahs than Isle carnos

[ripe furnace]

Yeah but this isn’t about in game I’m reffering to irl mostly

[wise sparrow]

But these are players controlling the animal. We dont have flight or fight responses for a digital dino. Buffalo die to lions because lions take advantage of the buffalo's instinct. A person playing para won't do that. They dont feel the dino's pain, they can heal in like 10 minutes, they won't get sick. Using modern predators hunting strategies won't carry over to the isle

[ripe furnace]

That is true

Put an American bull in Africa

No more lion

[wise sparrow]

Hell wolfs will call off hunts if a deer stands its ground. All of the wolfs could easily kill it, but none of them want to risk injury.

A single pachy vs a Utah pack in this game, the utahs can just regrow if they die. So they will mob the poor fucker.

[ripe furnace]

Not easily at all those antlers are killers

I did suggest a form of permanent damage

[wise sparrow]

I more mean that the wolfs would win through sheer numbers. Of course some would die. That's why they run off. They don't get a second chance

[ripe furnace]

Buffalo vs American lions what’s the odds

Water Buffalo horns are pretty counterproductive

[wise sparrow]

Oh god American buffalo would screw over a lion. Those horns are fucking terrifying

[ripe furnace]

Enter the longhorn

[wise sparrow]

Death.

This but with African buffalo aggression

[hollow canyon]

10t estimate is based on very fragmentary remains

[ripe furnace]

Him

[hollow canyon]

Carnos are larger than that too btw

The current estimate for Carno is 2t

I don't think Carno has any business approaching a Para in the game

[wise sparrow]

Mfw literally anything could solo para in legacy

[hollow canyon]

In general it wouldn't do anything to it in the game

[wise sparrow]

Para is built like a billboard. It just gets the carno stuck on it then makes it suffer

[wise sparrow]

While that would be stupid. I did have an idea of a hardcore game mode servers could pick, it would just kick realism into overdrive, and really only be for hardened veterans or absolute masochists.

Maybe you could unlock unique patterns for a dino by surviving on it on those servers

A way to show "I survived on a server where a juvi utah pounceing you could be fatal if not treated"

I gotta wait until cooldown tho ;w;

[ripe furnace]

No no not like that

I mean serious things like getting below half hp

Some real injury risk

But higher food reward so no hunting all the time

[wise sparrow]

Mfw you get attacked by a carno as a teno, you kill it, but are now permanently debuffed because it did a lot of damage

[ripe furnace]

Good point

But maybe it would deter the carno from even goin after you

[wise sparrow]

What if you're board of carno?

Just run up to the nearest teno and ruin their game

[ripe furnace]

Based

Lots of factors to think of

[weary idol]

So, instead of nerfing Carno, the proper thing to do would be to fix the Teno kick, lower the amount of stam tail slam uses, and see how things work for a week or so.

[rancid bluff]

yes

[weary idol]

That, and I'd really like to see better food placement for Pachy and maybe a little revision for herbs in general. It honestly feels like they should have made the Carno changes and then waited to see how that impacted gameplay before making the edits to Pachy and Teno.

[spare badger]

Carno didn't need the acceleration buff
Or the walking tbh, just the standing
Carno being a ballerina is not the best for an animal that's not supposed to brawl

[wise sparrow]

The devs when people's dinos are getting deleted for 3 months: I sleep

The devs when carno mains are dieing to a herbivore: REAL SHIT

[hasty coyote]

I understand the turning buffs for ram, but not the standing turn. It makes it nearly impossible to outmaneuver it as a pachy.

[spare badger]

The ram I'm ok with
Ballerina carno not so much

[wise sparrow]

Remember early qa when carno could ass ride pachy?

[spare badger]

Carno I was fine prepatch tho why did they touch it

[hasty coyote]

Devs when they see no one plays dryo and hypsi: sleep

Devs when they see a pt kill a baby: NERF

[hasty coyote]

I remember that happening yesterday

[wise sparrow]

Imagine carno, the animal made to be fast yet unagile, being able to ass ride something

[hollow canyon]

Cause Pachy had a laughable turn rate back then, for some reason the devs nerfed Pachy's turn rate again. Turn rate of anything should be the last thing that gets touched because it turns animals into garbage. Stego was also garbage for months before they touched up its turn rate.

[alpine plover]

@hexed sorrel a lot of people asked for a carno buff, just not the buffs they made, also obiously carno is the best land predator, he is the biggest, the only other is utah, so carno will always be the strongest land carnivore untill we get something bigger like allo

[wise sparrow]

Yes but carno is an ambush predator. It shouldn't be running up to teno and brawling it with 50/50 odds

[hollow canyon]

Carno was now tuned more into an ambush predator, it has never been one before.

[wise sparrow]

Herbivores need buffs rn.
If they need so many that it gets ridiculous, then clearly carno is the problem

[hollow canyon]

They do

Well not really, 2 of them need buffs

Pachy is the main one that needs buffs

Tenonto needs some slight changes, it's more or less fine atm

[alpine plover]

Now with the acceleration buff carno is really an ambush predator like you say, the only wrong thing it didnt need was the turn speed buff, it only makes it extremely good, just revert turn speed back to prepatch

[wise sparrow]

The only change I liked was the teno tail changes. It makes sense that the longer range attack would be weaker and the short range would get comboed into it.

But of course they then ruined this great change with stam costs and shitboxes

[hollow canyon]

Well, it's not that they changed the stam costs, but that's the issue they just don't really consider what one change does to the animal and what other changes need to accompany it.

[alpine plover]

If devs only had buff carno acceleration and left the others how they were, balancing would be perfect

[hollow canyon]

Nah, it wouldn't have been

[alpine plover]

Yes, it would

[hollow canyon]

Carno's acceleration could've honestly been left the way it was, same about the charge turn rate

the standing turn rate was the one thing it needed the most

[wise sparrow]

Stopping right next to a teno should be punishing. But nope carno just zips away instantly

What it needed was a standing turn buff and hunger drain tweaks

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto turns in a split second, if you can't punish a Carno that stops next to you that's on you

[alpine plover]

With only buffing carno acceleration and not nerfing the other playables, carno megapacks wouldnt exist what means balancing would be good

[hollow canyon]

the issue right now is that Tenonto uses up too much stamina on its tailslam

that's pretty much the only thing that needs a change about it

Idk about the hitboxes, they've worked just fine for me

and my kick landed whenever it should've landed

[wise sparrow]

The diet changes would still encourage megapacks. Rn its effortless to grow a carno compared to a teno

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto specifically is very easy to grow

[wise sparrow]

Most of the time you have to get knee deep in the carno to hit

[alpine plover]

The origin of carno mega packs is not herbivore diet change, is only a little part of it, the biggest part of carbo megapacks is herbivore nerfs

[hollow canyon]

it takes roughly as long as Carno if you're playing it properly(which honestly it should take less time but it definitely didn't take longer whenever I'd played it).

[hollow canyon]

that hasn't been my experience so far

[wise sparrow]

Teno has to travel the entire map If it wants to grow as fast as juvi carno, who has to eat one, wait till 45% eat again. Then wait

[hollow canyon]

Doesn't matter, you have to travel once

[alpine plover]

Before the patch it still was easy to grow a carno, thta has not change

[hollow canyon]

that's 20-30 minutes that you need to spend and then you get to afk

the whole time

[wise sparrow]

Hervivores have to be super vulnerable traversing the map.

Carnivores can eat a rabbit in the middle of nowhere.

[hollow canyon]

I don't disagree that the diets are unfair

[wise sparrow]

Herbivore food spawns in clusters that can be easily camped

[hollow canyon]

but the difference between herbivores and carnivores is nowhere near as big as people make them out to be then again most people have no idea how to play herbivores

Just based on Tenontos that I was travelling with

they were effectively extending their growth time

by a lot based on what they were doing

[hasty coyote]

Dude, pachy has to go to SE for melons, center for agave, and To the coast for coconuts

[wise sparrow]

Also aken do keep in mind that apparently the eu servers are much different than na. You guys seem to have a stable herbivore population. On na there is carno megapacks galore camping every fiid spawn and mobbing herbivores

[hasty coyote]

You basically have to travel the entire map to get all 3

[weary idol]

I like how you swap between "well... actually they might need a couple tweaks here and there"- to "NERF CARNO!"

[hollow canyon]

Pachy is a bit harder than Tenonto due to melons and agave being not right next to one another

[wise sparrow]

When did I say nerf carno?

[hollow canyon]

It's still growable in the same manner, you just need to be smart about it and understand how diets work

[alpine plover]

Also you dont need to get the 3 nutrients as a herbi, getting perfect diet is not something you are obligated to do, most people complaining is people that want to get the 120% growth with no effort

[hollow canyon]

You can get 120% growth with no effort

well, barely any effort

[weary idol]

You've heavily implied it the entire time you've been posting today.

[alpine plover]

Then get just 2

[hollow canyon]

getting just 2 extends your growth time by a lot

it's not worth it imo, much better to get three

[wise sparrow]

Could you show me where? I've made it a point to state that herbivores should receive buffs before carno receives nerfs

[hollow canyon]

but if you want to walk between three points all the time while growing - GL HF, you're playing the game wrong

[alpine plover]

Then risk it and expend more time running from plant spawn to plant spawn

[hasty coyote]

And carnis can get all 3 instantly by eating a body

[wise sparrow]

Herbivores diets would be okay if carnis diets weren't objectively easier

[hasty coyote]

That’s the issue, carnis have it too easy compared to herbies.

[hollow canyon]

Carnivores have it much easier

there's no doubt about that

but the difference isn't as big as people make it out to be when you play herbivores properly

[alpine plover]

Then dont say the problem is that herbi diet is hard, just say carnivore diet is too easy, lol, you dont even know what you want

[hollow canyon]

I know exactly what I want

I want herbivore diets to change across their growth

I don't think a juvenile should have to make a trek across the whole map right after spawning

at least two of the nutrients should have substitutes available in different areas of the map

[alpine plover]

Why? Devs would make it so you still have to expend the same time moving to get perfecr diet

[hollow canyon]

that's exactly the point - for them NOT to do that

[weary idol]

Here's a good one. lol Each time you bring up herbivore balance you point out how easy a Carno has it and how they do things without much of an issue. Each time you make a comparison, you implicate that it's a problem with the Carno, rather than the game design surrounding the herbivores.

[alpine plover]

Then it would be like with oasis, you would be again afking 50% of your time

[hollow canyon]

no, it wouldn't, read what I said again because it doesn't imply "put all the nutrients in the same area"... at all

[wise sparrow]

What I said there was to fix herbivores and buff them a little. If they need so many buffs they become gods compared to future dinos, then that means carno is overtuned.

[hasty coyote]

I want to make herbie diets move around the map at set times. Such as melons spawning SE for 2-3 hours then moving to NE or something. That would encourage the migration that the devs want. Make the food move and not force the player to cross the map as a baby.

[wise sparrow]

Again. I was saying buff herbivores, then nerf carnivores if it doesn't work

[weary idol]

The salt you have toward Carno is pretty real, Ank. lol So, I'm sorry if I take you the wrong way but it's pretty slanted toward wanting to see some form of retribution toward the carnivore. Which, I get. It's pretty shit to be a herbivore right now especially with the questionable changes they made to 'diet plant' placement which seems ridiculous but that's another rant entirely.

[alpine plover]

The herbi buff you say is reverting the patch changes

Of the herbis, not of the carno too

[wise sparrow]

No. I also praised the idea of tenos tail being a tool and less a weapon.

[alpine plover]

A tool for what

[wise sparrow]

Stun

[hasty coyote]

Sometimes reverting parts of a patch isn’t a bad thing

[alpine plover]

Well considering people only asked for a carno buff and not a herbi nerf I guess reverting herbi netf is the best option

[hasty coyote]

People were def asking for a herbie nerf, especially pachy’s stun lock

[alpine plover]

Never heard that complains, deva didnt even fix that

[weary idol]

Yeah, Pachy was a little strong there for a while. People were herding as Pachy and taking out entire Utah packs, and then slaughtering all the rest of the herbs as well.

I still don't think they should've made the changes to the plants. It's obnoxious to try and grow as a Pachy, now.

[hasty coyote]

I’m pretty sure they make a stun immunity for a few seconds longer

[alpine plover]

I think it was only against carno that change

[hasty coyote]

Yes, that was the main thing I heard, carnos didn’t like it lol. Raptors can 1-shot pachies and vice versa because of pounce and bleed

However, most of my experience as pachy has been against carnos, and the few raptors I did fight would juke me hard.

[weary idol]

I'll call myself out on this one in that I hadn't read your post carefully enough. It looked as though it were worded that you had steps you wanted to take in a linear fashion.

At the end, it might be better to word it: "If the herbivore revisions don't work, it might be time to look at reverting some of the choices made with Carno down the line." Steps tend to imply everything being a part of the same process rather than a reactional approach based on data being collected between revisions.

[wise sparrow]

Ah alright thanks for telling me

[alpine plover]

I think my only concern with tail being strong and it’s main form of attack means it invalidates kick

Which was the original problem

[hollow canyon]

Kick might need some help although... idk seemed pretty lethal to me

it has a fast attack rate and a really serious damage output

its range is the only problem really

I wouldn't be against extending that range but I think it would require tinkering with the animation and I doubt the devs would be willing to do that.

Also, this is a bit off topic but bleed works really weird in this game

it seems to me like it has a fixed duration no matter how much bleed you apply

I was seemingly healing 0.1% bleed per tick as long as I was healing 0.15% per second

oof 1 adult Carno and 2 Utahs, damn that was a tough fight

cancel that - 3 Utahs

the kick is actually really devastating, especially if you can land it on a Utah

[granite ruin]

tbh the kick had different benefits that tail couldnt do.
Like being able to turn while kicking so you can pull of some sneaky stun. also the stam is alot on tail slam that its not worth spamming until they are actually stunned.
Imo the kick and tail had different terms of use that allowed it to be versatile, them just nerfing the tail slam and making kick "more in line" with tail slam just makes tenos MAIN attack weak af (which is whats happening now)

[hollow canyon]

tailslam needs a lower stamina cost, that's for sure the thing is that due to its range and damage output there were barely any situations where you'd want to use kick over it

atm kick does have its use

and if you can put it to good use you can clap most animals in the game, if you try to tailslam Carnos instead of using kick you will almost certainly lose

kick does some good job against them though

at least all the Carnos I've killed I did by kicking them

[granite ruin]

This is the problem. your MAIN attack being shite, does low damage when it should be high and costs alot of stam for it doing not that much damage

those carnos you killed, were they any good?

[hollow canyon]

having high damage on tailslam made that attack literally the only one worth using

Idk about how good they were, I'm not particularly good at Tenonto, the one today was doing just fine until I took the fight into the woods where I had an easier time landing the kick

[granite ruin]

Not true, i used kick all the time to stun carnos that tried hit and run tactics, and used them to get sneaky stuns then hurt them with tail slam

[hollow canyon]

I can't remember ever getting hit by the kick before these changes, I barely ever remember anyone even attempting to use it against me

I myself didn't use it either

As I said though - tailslam does need a buff to the stamina cost, atm it's just too high, nevertheless that attack couldn't have remained the way it was before the changes

[granite ruin]

the kick was imo one of its strongest attacks because it didnt lock you in place and allowed to you 180 stun poeple

[hollow canyon]

let me put it this way

with how it could shred a Carno prior to the damage decrease - what do you think this attack would do to literally ever other predator which is slated for release in Evrima?

Each one of them gets knocked down on the ground with any of Tenonto's CC

old tailslam would literally turn them into minced meat

Cerato, Baryonyx, Dilo, everyone of those animals would be completely worthless against Tenonto unless they were given some artificial CC immunity.

[granite ruin]

carno was not shredded by tenos, this can play back to how good those carnos or tenos are at using their dino. I persoanlly had no problem fighting tenos as carno or vice versa but i never felt tenos being op you just need to use bleed effectively

you could never kill a carno in 1 cc, it would always leave them with 25% or lower health depending on where it hit.

[hollow canyon]

During update 3.5 I've 100-0 Carnos when landing a headshot on them

if you landed a headshot as the first CC

you could take out all of their hp if you followed up with headshots

this wasn't ok

[granite ruin]

ive got vids during update 3 - 3.5 watch them youll see my pov of those hunts

[hollow canyon]

I will take a look, but I know what I did during that update and Carno just went down before it could move

I've also seen a video made by Dashark

where he presented how Tenonto can 100 to 0 a Carno

[granite ruin]

maybe so but factors can always play effect like hunger or locked damage

[hollow canyon]

In the test they were both full hp

Carno just went down

and again Carno has 1.8k hp, what do you think old Tenonto would do to literally every other predator in the game barring Carno and Deino? with how it was it would've been untouchable

[granite ruin]

carnos dont get headshot from tailslams on even ground tho? even tried it and it always seems to hit the necka dn do body damage, only when they are uneven ground ive hit heads

[hollow canyon]

The first hit I landed there was the kick

and I followed with headshots

with the tailslam

[granite ruin]

No? carno and teno had the same hp back in the day. NOW carno has 1.8k and teno has 1.6k

[hollow canyon]

Yes, but in that message I wasn't talking about that update

what I'm saying there is that

with Carno having 1.8k hp and Tenonto having the old damage on the tailslam Tenonto would murder every other carnivore on the roster

Baryonyx, Cerato, Dilo - everyone of these animals won't have that much hp

they are smaller and will never survive if Tenonto so much as touches them

if it keeps that damage output

[granite ruin]

Nope. Carnos charge had the same effect of dooming tenos if it lands, even tenos couldnt kill it in 1 cc

[hollow canyon]

no? Carno's charge didn't doom Tenonto at all if it landed

On the previous patch you needed to charge a Tenonto some 3 times before it went down

[granite ruin]

i should rephrase that, if it landed it pretty much hurt the teno massively. the headshots it can get off aswell as the bleed cripled tenos in the long run

[hollow canyon]

well yes, it did hurt Tenonto massively I agree with that

but not as much as Tenonto could hurt a Carno if it landed a single CC

brb I just realised my Tenonto is starving

[granite ruin]

i played carno and 1 v 3 some tenos and killed them all in update 3 - 3.5, wasnt that hard to kill tenos and thats with their nuts damage. in update 4 ive fought a good amount of tenos and even killed one as a sub carno by using bleed. people just dont know how to hunt effectively imo

[hollow canyon]

Idk what those Tenontos were doing, in update 4 Tenonto could 1v2 Carnos, hell I had two instances where I 1v3ed them

not by killing them all but by forcing them to back off

[granite ruin]

But this is good, the fact that they hurt you to leave means you did a good job and they are forced to heal back up

[hollow canyon]

I don't think I should be surviving a 1v3 like that

[granite ruin]

depends on the players

[hollow canyon]

the fact that I get to kill one guy and then the other two have to back off

means that something is wrong

yes indeed, it does depend on the players but it's kind of the same as you killing a Tenonto as subadult Carno

[granite ruin]

have more fights, 1 fight isnt enoguh to determine the whole baalnce of a dino

[hollow canyon]

subadult Carno dies - as in it gets deleted - if Tenonto lands a single CC

Well yea but that wasn't just one fight

[granite ruin]

as ive said, watch the vid, its better to understand when theres video of the action

[hollow canyon]

mind linking it?

[granite ruin]

teno one first or carno

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto

[granite ruin]

i have a 1 hour long vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-2v28wi92w&t=17s&ab_channel=DRAGONZz

[hollow canyon]

I'm going to watch it a bit later since I need to get food on my Tenonto, as I was left pretty low on hp during those fights and now left it starving

[granite ruin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKX_kt9aoW0&t=690s&ab_channel=DRAGONZz

and this is the carno

[hollow canyon]

Either way I think that Tenonto might need some QoL improvements

I vehemently disagree with any animal of that size getting an attack dealing over 300+ dmg

especially if it can be used repeatedly and applies CC

[granite ruin]

but used alot of stam, stam is a massive part of fighting and tail slamming costed alot of stam and with bleed that slowed stam regen it can become more hurtful using it.
it was a balanced system back then but now no

and cc had a cooldown so if the teno ccs you but misses you could just walk up and ignore some hits while biting

[hollow canyon]

I mean I also don't think that it should have that high of a stamina cost obviously

also how do you view this match up back in update 3?

[granite ruin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQA54SnWosI&ab_channel=Kav
also watch this, whats happening atm

[hollow canyon]

Do you think that was balanced?

[granite ruin]

yes i do, it was more fun imo

i played teno and killed carnos, i played carno and killed tenos

i had no issue with it back then

[hollow canyon]

I did the same and I didn't have issues with that match up at the time either

[granite ruin]

which is why i want to go back to that time lol

[hollow canyon]

I'd want that kind of but at the same time update 3 wasn't a good point of balance for the future of the game

[mental roost]

Gotta get back to the past

[hollow canyon]

Carno having 350N biteforce and Tenonto doing 360N with its tailslam

imagine what the biteforces of the larger creatures would be

Utah had 1k hp

Stego was absolute fodder

[granite ruin]

its not just that tho, the tail slam locked you in place and carno could spam it

[hollow canyon]

in general the game was really working against the larger creatures

admittedly we aren't supposed to have any of those any time soon

[granite ruin]

oh i agree for the future of the game the stats will be changed. but atm no dino is being added so why change it for the worse of dinos that are being added anytime soon

[hollow canyon]

and I personally don't care for Stego and Deino

[weary idol]

I never fought a Teno if I didn't have the edge on it to begin with before the last update and even then the Teno could turn the tables with enough experience. Each time I tried to attack a Teno, I'd end up backing off unless they were particularly terrible.

[hollow canyon]

You see - I thought the same thing to myself but the devs based on the direction they're taking

really don't care about what the game IS, they only seemingly care about what it's supposed to be

that's why we have a lot of changes and stuff that don't really make much sense

[granite ruin]

and atm its not fun to play which is sad

[hollow canyon]

remember the 4 months+ of having out dinos deleted?

That's also because the devs just focus on the future

I agree that it's sad

I'd gladly get back to update 3.5 balance-wise for now because it was just more fun

I think every animal was more fun there aside from Stego but I don't play it anyways

I had more fun in just about every match up but at the same time those values were a bad foundation

Utah had 1/4th hp of a Stegosaurus

[granite ruin]

yeah but now we sacrifice fun with what update 4.5 is now, play carno stego or deino or just dont have fun

[hollow canyon]

To be fair I've been having decently much fun as Tenonto

I play it the most out of all the animals atm

I do agree it could use some help

[granite ruin]

well its good someone enjoys it lol

[hollow canyon]

but it's definitely playable

[weary idol]

I've not been playing since the Carno Megapacks. I've been killed by a fellow Carno too many times to count if I don't get the first bite in. Even if I do win, the rest of the Megapack shows up not long after or I have a distinct disadvantage due to the health cap after an injury.

I should specify that I've not been playing a Carno as often. It's just.. a matter of time before they find you and ask if you want to join and if you say no.. lol

[hollow canyon]

it's like... idk maybe I'm just lucky but I don't seem to be running into Carno megapacks that much

these are from this update

but yea I don't think I could take on multiple Carnos at once now

1v1 feels like a challenge

[weary idol]

I'll be playing for an hour and things will be going swimmingly and then 3-5 other Carnos show up. It was bad enough before where a pair would pop up and I knew they didn't mean to be friends as soon as we saw each other.

IMO, a significant contributor to the Megapack problem is because they can kill other Carnos within that pack to sustain themselves and get a diet bonus between finding people who have no chance of fighting them.

[hollow canyon]

On Carno I personally have cannibalised quite a couple of Carnos, they are one of the easier ways of keeping nutrients up, right along with Utahs

[hollow canyon]

I've watched this video btw

[weary idol]

Honestly probably going to go Troodon when the night update hits. Hopefully humans will be in by then.

[hollow canyon]

like back when you released it, not the whole thing I believe, but I did take a look at some fights there

I remember that fight though(the one in the shallows)

[weary idol]

Very true, but x Species vs x Species is one of the most lackluster fights. Pretty much whoever gets the first hit in, wins.

[granite ruin]

had many carno fights at shallows

[weary idol]

It's part of why I hate fighting Carnos so much as a Carno player.

[hollow canyon]

yea mirrors are hot garbage in Evrima

[granite ruin]

same species fights in these sort of games have always been boring

[hollow canyon]

Carno vs Carno is atrocious

Deino vs Deino is even worse

Yea they are kind of but I liked them better in legacy, in Evrima they are particularly bad

in PoT they work much better than in Evrima or legacy imo

[granite ruin]

tanking matches usually arent the best

[hollow canyon]

yea

unfortunately in Evrima you can't really disengage from a fight

because you can't walk backwards, so if you're in a mirror match up you just have to kind of hope for the best and get better locational hits than your opponent

it makes for a very poor entertainment

[weary idol]

A frustrating loss as well, if you lose.

[granite ruin]

utah and ptera fights are the only oines i enjoy

[hollow canyon]

I liked Utah but pounce makes it really silly too

[weary idol]

lol As if it's a fight any more, if it ever was before.

Oh, you mean Utah on Utah etc.

[hollow canyon]

aside from that it's fine, it feels good when you just zoom at each other hoping to land the hit and avoid your opponent's bite

[granite ruin]

tbf i enjoyed pounce vs utah one and its when i was early sub taking on a full adult adn killing it lol

[weary idol]

Christ I hate Ptera fights. There's not even a reason to fight other than wanting to troll someone or bring bored.

[hollow canyon]

I haven't tried cannibalising Utahs since like... update 2? or maybe even update 1

[weary idol]

Being bored, rather.

[hollow canyon]

Definitely not since global was removed, I liked to hunt people that were particularly vocal on global though

[granite ruin]

had to deal with a few players that just kill for the sake of ruining players time.

i still have the clip i need to upload lol

[hollow canyon]

well... by "vocal" I mean obnoxious

[granite ruin]

still wish theyd let unofficials have the option to turn global on

[hollow canyon]

same

I personally liked global, made afking more interesting

[granite ruin]

Officials = Dev's i dea of the game
Unofficials = Players idea of the game

[hollow canyon]

I wouldn't have to minimise the game and I could just watch what people are arguing about

[granite ruin]

global was cool, people only look at the bad of it

[hollow canyon]

it's a really stupid entertainment but a form of entertainment nevertheless

yea

btw how is your experience on Tenonto atm?

[granite ruin]

with current patch?

[hollow canyon]

As in - do you find it just outmatched in 1v1?

Yea, on the current patch

[granite ruin]

ive had one experence but i cant get mucg out of it because i was sub and a dc got me killed

[hollow canyon]

I see

Cause I think that it's very much playable even though I'd buff it myself

[granite ruin]

id have to give it ago again

[hollow canyon]

it would be neat if the kick had a bit more range imo

but its damage output feels really good when you start dishing it out

it's like... how do I put it? if someone gets hit with a tailslam it's not the end of the world for them because you won't be able to kick them that much, but if you land a kick

the attack rate + the damage

idk, I just massacred that second Carno

[granite ruin]

ive been told tenos kick has amazing bleed, idk if they changed the bleed values

[hollow canyon]

well it definitely has more bleed by the virtue of having more damage

I'm not sure if they tinkered witht he bleed multiplier on top of that

Also - I personally think that Carno should get a lower bleed multiplier on its bite

it just deals too much bleed imo and that's the one thing I'd nerf about it

[granite ruin]

i hope they touch up on utah

[hollow canyon]

because every attack has a 1:1 bleed multiplier

Yea, Utah bite could have a higher one, I'd probably go with 1.5 for starters

and have it at ~0.5 or 0.75 for Carno

[granite ruin]

not just that, utahs pounce that keeps knocking the utah off (not the knockdown with the animation just detach)

[hollow canyon]

the issue with the pounce is that it's just one of these mechanics that keep on bugging out

I don't expect it will work properly before update 9

where they're supposed to ensure that everything is up to a standard they wish for

[granite ruin]

i just noticed tenos food are on the oppisite sides of the map

[hollow canyon]

Yea, all the herbivores have their food on the opposite sides of the map

there's a trick to growing them

If you want I can let you know how to do it on DMs

[granite ruin]

sure

[scarlet onyx]

Someone convince me why tenos kick buff was necessary I vastly preferred teno tail slam being the superior defensive attack

The kick is way too good and way too mobile for how much damage it does not to mention stunlocks so effectively

[wise sparrow]

It forces the teno to attack while in hit range. Teno's tail slam was amazing because it was a long distance heavy hitter that used a part of the body that took minimal damage. Tenos kick is much higher risk and higher reward

[hollow canyon]

^

[spare badger]

slam allowed you to stay out of range while dealing 360 damage per hit. With kick, you do 300 damage and are in range of being hit

[scarlet onyx]

slam kept you in place which allowed carno to move in for bites. there's no strategy with the kick, just turn and spam kick and youll get cc and lots of damage

[spare badger]

how long do diets last now? Is the strat just to spawn northwest, fill up to 275% radish and go to swamp til adult?

[hollow canyon]

yea but don't say that at loud

[scarlet onyx]

i don't honestly know how you do anything to tenos now as carno without ramming them, you can't even trade bites for damage youre just stunlocked for half your health in one go

its the fact that it allows so much mobility there's no defensive movement

[hollow canyon]

You might just be the only person that thinks Tenonto is better off after the last patch tbh

I think it's weaker, kick is harder to land than tailslam due to range

[spare badger]

well kick's hitbox is inconsistent so abuse that for now. And there is a reason carno isnt supposed to facetank teno anyway

[hollow canyon]

the damage kind of makes up for it though

[scarlet onyx]

why would you need range when carnos have to bite you to kill you, they can't shoot you with a 9mm, they have to go in for bites which is always in kick range, i don't get the logic you're using

[hollow canyon]

you need to catch them at exact moment when they're close enough for the kick to land, if Carno decides to stay on you and bite you repeatedly then it deserves to bite the dust, the approach is to land bites on Tenonto without getting hit by the kick

..or tailslam

cause Tenonto can land a tailslam and then go for a kick on your face

admittedly it might be kind of meh due to slam's high stamina cost atm

[spare badger]

teno is much worse now than it was

before i was able to take 0 hits and instakill a carno

[spare badger]

because then you would take the hits, before you could completely avoid damage because of the range

it was just a lot easier to hit

[dusky surge]

i love the suggestions like "revert balance to this update!"

like, cool, but pachy didn't fucking exist in update 3.5, neither did diets

most of the game in update 3.5 was played around south and centre as well

all update 3.5 had going for it was fighting. it got really old running down the same plains by the same river to fight the same animals, usually a carno

i also think people forget 3.5 was riddled with carnos

[fresh laurel]

3.5 i saw more deinos tbh

stego was just small population back then

carnos out populated utah

teno ig were a average sight

occasional pteras and dryo/hypsi were extinct almost

[hollow canyon]

3.5 was full of Deinos, Carnos, Utahs and some Tenontos

Stego was absolute trash

Dryo was a god of war that wasn't really played by anyone aside from a small group of people with the insider knowledge

it was fun, it was cool but

idk about reverting changes to that update since it just doesn't work in the long run

the smaller animals needed to be toned down

[spare badger]

revert dryo

[hollow canyon]

just a reminder: it had a higher peckforce than Utah does now

[spare badger]

Exactly

Actually tho they should give dryo a semi decent attack, especially with Troodon coming soon

[fresh laurel]

revert utah

hot take

||(joke)||

[hollow canyon]

Current Dryo would still murder a Troodon, Troodon is tiny

[fresh laurel]

people want to see 1000 hp utah return from the ashes of hell?