balance-feedback-discussion

[versed rune]

Honestly I used the kick more back then than I do now

Cuz now I don’t trust the hitbox to not break on me

[spare badger]

The hitbox was just as bad before

[versed rune]

Oh yea believe me I know

[spare badger]

Just people knew it was bad so nobody tried to use it

[versed rune]

But at least you knew WHEN the hitbox would come out

[alpine plover]

Cause I had it from before

[versed rune]

I think I’m like the only person who actively used teno’s kick as my primary option

I didn’t trust myself enough to not whiff my tail slams lmao

[carmine patrol]

I still don't believe you

[spare badger]

Teno needs 2 things

1. Fix kick
2. Reduce stam use on slam

After that, see how good teno is. If it's still bad, give slam a mild fracture damage so it can body and head fracture carno
Or
Increase its stam Regen so it can fight longer and escape better

[alpine plover]

I just had an adult teno from before the patch, what dont you believe?

[carmine patrol]

That you kill carnos ez

[spare badger]

I used it as on offensive option
Running at a carno and doing a spinning kick

[alpine plover]

With easy i just meant i was able to kill carnos without sweatimg

[carmine patrol]

I'm a teno main and killing a good carno player is impossible

[alpine plover]

You cant know how good it is

[carmine patrol]

The carno has to be average

[versed rune]

Honestly I don’t think teno should be given body fracture

[alpine plover]

Average carno didnt killed average teno prepatch

[versed rune]

I’d say head fracture at most so it can deter the predator, but not ouright run it down

[alpine plover]

Just say it cause ia impssible to knoe

[carmine patrol]

Umm, you can by looking at how they fight?

[spare badger]

Fair enough
I feel like tenos moves are all super committal but aren't worth the stamina

[alpine plover]

Well, al tenos i fight and win is because they are worst than me

[carmine patrol]

True, but good carno killed good teno

[spare badger]

So imo better stam Regen is a better option

[versed rune]

Yeah that’s the issue right now. If this was legacy it’d be fine cuz like there’s zero movement options, but the thing is movement in evrima is actually.... good

[spare badger]

But mild fractures (like, multiple slams to break) could also work, probably be harder to balance though

[versed rune]

I mean I’ll be honest

[spare badger]

Spinning vs actual animal movement

[versed rune]

I want carno to be able to deal mild body fracture with charge

But I’m afraid of how that would affect matchups

[alpine plover]

Again, how do you know, you cant know the difference of levels between dinos, i doubt an average carno player can win a good teno player, as for me the meaning of average carno is one thta baits slams but sometimes fails and gets hit, and good teno is one who doesnt miss slams

[versed rune]

Just because I WANT something doesn’t mean it SHOULD happen lol

[spare badger]

That would absolutely trounce teno and pachy and Utah cause they all rely on stam
It makes sense but it would be SO broken

[versed rune]

Like back when body fracture was useless I wanted body fracture purely for the aesthetic

[carmine patrol]

And the good carno is the one that bait's without getting hit

[versed rune]

But now that it’s actually a strong effect

[alpine plover]

Yes

[spare badger]

2x stam drain is legitimately great

[versed rune]

But then the other part of me is like, if you get hit by the charge, you kinda deserve to take the L

[carmine patrol]

So good carno wins against good teno

[versed rune]

Especially before the buff

No more of that moving to the side 2 feet to dodge carno’s charge bs

[carmine patrol]

After the buff even average carno can win

[versed rune]

Yea I know that

[alpine plover]

If the carno is better than the teno yes, if they are the smae level carno would try to bait teno but the teno would never slam except when he detect carno is really going to hit it, so it becomes an endless fight

[versed rune]

That’s why I think teno should be able to be more liberal with throwing out attacks and hitboxes

[spare badger]

The knockdown is kinda enough already
It'll kill any lone pachy or Utah and take a good chunk of tenos health

[carmine patrol]

Kinda true

[spare badger]

Definitely
Especially since they aren't wrecking balls now

[versed rune]

Yea I agree dino I’d want it LITERALLY just for the aesthetic lol

But I feel like things like that could come with QoL updates

[spare badger]

I wanted it for teno for the aesthetic too lmao

But now it's a bit too good for that

[versed rune]

I mean id prefer the current charge over old charge with body fracture any day

New charge feels like carno wants you dead

[carmine patrol]

I hope they drop a new balance patch soon, the game is unplayable for me

[spare badger]

At least it doesn't knock me over when it hits my tail anymore

[versed rune]

Yea herbivore mains kinda got fucked over

[versed rune]

Oh yeah true that was bullshit

[spare badger]

I haven't played again cause tenos moves are so inconsistent and bad

[versed rune]

Granted carno charge still phases through teno’s tail anyway

Or maybe it doesn’t now and just deals damage, idk

[alpine plover]

Teno has the ability to defend from carno even if the carno is super buff while the teno is better than the carno player, the teno will win (considering winning as not getting eat, doesnt have to kill carno to win)

[versed rune]

I know last build it phased through its tail

[spare badger]

It deals damage now

Quite a bit too

[carmine patrol]

Yeah I still do well in 1v1

[versed rune]

Was that a universal knockdown change?

Cuz I kicked a young carno as a teno, didn’t knock it down. Just damaged it

I might’ve hit only its tail

[spare badger]

It was for pachy and carno
Damage inflicted even without cc

[alpine plover]

Then as you will see the problem of carno megapacks is not carno buff, that is my whole point poeple desnt want to understand

[carmine patrol]

I can kill average-good carnos in a 1v1 but I don't escape with much health

[spare badger]

The carno buff also impacts drifting which is...
Kinda busted if you're playing an agile animal

[carmine patrol]

Bro I was literally agreeing with you

You can look back at the chat

[alpine plover]

Oh 😁, im just tired of explaining why carno buff is not a problem, so everytime i see the word carno I understand he is complianing about the buff

[carmine patrol]

Lol

[spare badger]

It's kinda a problem for something nimble cause carno drift is way better now
But that doesn't affect its teno matchup too much

[alpine plover]

Exactly, Im ok with all solutions to the problem except nerf carnos

[spare badger]

Nerf carnos *drift speed turn that's kinda busted
Normal turning is fine

[keen plover]

Carno should be nerfed 🙂

[carmine patrol]

Why are you that afraid of them nerfing carno XD

[spare badger]

Probably cause devs always overdo it with nerfs

[keen plover]

Yeah nerfs are stupid in this game

[carmine patrol]

I don't blame him then

[keen plover]

It’s OP then broken trash

[alpine plover]

They only thing theyto do was to buff food retention, also the charge hitbox buff and acceleration buff is good, i dont care if we get preparch drift back

[versed rune]

Carno is doing what it does well
people cry when they die to it
they nerf it
carno sucks
they rebuff it
This has happened about 5 times in this game’s history. It’s a cycle.

[keen plover]

Even then Carno is fine and this is what it should be as a playable

[spare badger]

U3 Teno -> MT Teno -> U4 Teno -> U4.25 Teno

[keen plover]

It gets a lot of food out of small game, charge is better. Better turn when not running.

[spare badger]

Teno was good
Then garbage
Then OP
Then bad

[alpine plover]

I dont care getting prepatch drift, while keeping the acceleration buff and charge hitbox fix, and with a food retentiom buff

[carmine patrol]

MT teno was broken useless trash

[keen plover]

Carno fractures

[spare badger]

It was

[carmine patrol]

I agree

[keen plover]

I loved Carno with fractures only because it was fun to troll with

[spare badger]

Same with Teno
Haven't made Stego any less OP yet though

[keen plover]

Surprising little stego players

[alpine plover]

Stego cant be nerfed without looking that it deals less damage than it should

[versed rune]

Nerf stego to 4K hp

[carmine patrol]

Because if they touch it, it will be trash and people will complain about it, then it gets buffed and people complain

[alpine plover]

What stego needs is being replaced by kentro but we know that wont happen

[versed rune]

Stego being too op right now prevents people from wanting to touch it anyway

[keen plover]

You’d need to remove the 2x head multiplier then cause that’s a weak boy

Cause imagine a sub stegos hp

[carmine patrol]

It has 2x head multiplier?

[keen plover]

Yep

[carmine patrol]

Nice

[keen plover]

Carno does 350n damage to a stego for headshots

[alpine plover]

And atill needs 15 carno bites, that is incredible

[keen plover]

12 Carno bites if stego is 4K hp

[alpine plover]

Yeah, 12,but it is like that prepatch

[keen plover]

I mean it’s currently 18 bites

[versed rune]

That’s fair honestly. 12 hits is a lot more than it sounds in the heat of combat against a tank with the ability to one shot you

[carmine patrol]

Carno is OP it needs to 25 shot stegosaurus on head

[spare badger]

Imo just temporarily downsize stego by 1 ton or something

[alpine plover]

[alpine plover]

But stego can 1 hit juvie carno with bitting

Utah*

[carmine patrol]

So what? It needs to 1 shot full grown utah with bite

[keen plover]

Yeah but smaller stegos would have even less health. Imagine being 75% grown and being in the 2T range with a 2x head multiplier. They’d be dead in seconds. Unless they also had a shorter grow. Also deino would drown a stego at that size.

[alpine plover]

I already said i meant utah

[versed rune]

That’s a growth issue and not a combat issue. Subadult life stages of slow animals inherently suck because well... they’re slow

[carmine patrol]

[keen plover]

Also Carno can stun up to 2.7T so technically can stun the poor bastard to death

[spare badger]

#DownsizeStego

[alpine plover]

[versed rune]

My idea would be to have easier ways for baby herbies to communicate with and find herds of their own species

[spare badger]

Just for now
Make it 5 tons

[spare badger]

Make broadcast calls actually useful?

[versed rune]

Yes

[spare badger]

Like, have your name temporarily appear to your species or smth

*your own name so you can't hunt with it

[alpine plover]

I dont think carnis getting 3 nutrients untill 50% is bad, but I do think everything giving carnis 3 nutrients is

[versed rune]

I feel like that could be exploited in vc’s but so can a lot of other things

So I wouldn’t mind that

[keen plover]

As in baiting?

[versed rune]

Yea, like a herb is communicating with another herb and telling its exact location to its carnivore buds by seeing its nametag

[keen plover]

Also trusting other stego players is yikes.

[wise sparrow]

If I'm playing stego and another stego blindly walks up to me I'm killing it. It just natural selection at that point

And because it's funny

[keen plover]

^stego players

[rich fractal]

i thought they only stand in rivers

[keen plover]

I can’t be bothered playing stego. Might be the most mind numbing sleeper gameplay of all

[alpine plover]

What is more sus, stego running towards you ir walking (no troting, walking)

[keen plover]

Walking

Because it’s saving up stam to chase you

And fight

[alpine plover]

Correct answer

[wise sparrow]

I just dont play evrima at all rn. Utah doesn't work, herbivores are just walking simulators, and carno is just brain dead. And you couldn't pay me to play stego unless there is an overpopulation and they need to die

Ptera is... ptera. And deino just lives in it's own world without worry of starvation

[alpine plover]

Carno overpopulation: am i a joke to you?

[keen plover]

?

[keen plover]

Stego gameplay is what I expect from all large tiers. Slow and miserable

[sinful cove]

Carno overpopulation because its a braindead dino

[wise sparrow]

But it's not as funny because they can almost instantly regrow. Stegos and deinos have a huge time investment

[alpine plover]

He said he only would play stego if there was overpopulation

[keen plover]

I mean killing other carnos is a lost cause

[alpine plover]

What do you mean by brain dead?

[terse whale]

too easy😭

[sinful cove]

Takes no skill of course

[keen plover]

You ain’t putting a dent in Carno population

[wise sparrow]

Eat once. Eat at 45%. Instant adult

[sinful cove]

Grows effortless, survives effortless

[spare badger]

Ngl I wanna play stego to harass carno overpopulation cause teno is kinda bad rn

[alpine plover]

To grow, or fight?

[sinful cove]

Both

[wise sparrow]

Both. It's just face tank simulator rn

[spare badger]

I've had a carno facetank my teno cause hitboxes are jank

[sinful cove]

All carnos competition has been either nerfed or broken so carno takes no brain cells to function now

[alpine plover]

So we are again with that, teno is made to beat carno doesnt matter how buff it is, if you are a good teno you win

[keen plover]

Lol

[spare badger]

Not rn tho cause tenos damage output to stam cost is too low and the hitboxes don't work

[sinful cove]

If you are a good teno vs a bottom of the barrel carno then yeah lol

[wise sparrow]

You're kick is your main damage dealer now!

So the kick works?

...

So the kick works!?

[alpine plover]

And good teno means knowing when you can slam or when it is a bait, if you didnt new is because you are bad so the death is your fault

[sinful cove]

man it sucks

[spare badger]

For simplicity just make tenos ass a big hitbox so it always works

[keen plover]

Currently Carno can just bait some tail slams and just face tank a Teno after. Not much skill to it.

[alpine plover]

No, doesnt matter how good the carno is, if you are better or the same level you win

[sinful cove]

The carno baits, it is the one with the engagement advantage and lower stam drain combat overall

[alpine plover]

If you are a good teno you know how to detect baits

[sinful cove]

The one with engagement advantage hs the easiest time baiting and i bait with carno all the time

I even baited before the agility buff

[keen plover]

Being perfect is impossible.

[sinful cove]

So carno didnt even need the buff to do it

[keen plover]

You will make a mistake. You’re not going to hit each tail slam

[alpine plover]

Then what is your point, teno can still fight and win if you are better

[keen plover]

I haven’t lost to a single teno this update and I’ve had the same Carno

[sinful cove]

Teno has to rely on the carno's mistakes tbh

[spare badger]

Prepatch? Yea
Now? No. I fought a carno I knew was garbage cause of how they were playing but teno cannot deal enough damage without running out of stam and kick doesn't work

[alpine plover]

I said being better, if you lose the carno is better than you, and if you miss once that is your faul, why do t you understand?

[alpine plover]

But that is a teno nerf problem not a carno buff one

[spare badger]

True
Excluding drift and diet carno is fine

[sinful cove]

If the carno makes no mistakes then the teno is kind of fucked. Carno has room to make quite a few mistakes in the fight compared to teno. Luckily there are a lot of dumb children playing carno right now but a lot of the others are normal carno players

[alpine plover]

And gow much worse is slam now? Three tail slam was carnos half health before

[spare badger]

Slam does 100 less damage but the same stam cost

And stuns seem to be shorter

[alpine plover]

Ok, remove drift, im ok with that, but add food retention buff

[sinful cove]

[alpine plover]

Lol, they should buff it 50 points

[spare badger]

Imo damage is fine kick can do that if they reduce slams stam cost and fix kixk

[keen plover]

Nah. We don’t need high damage teno. Reduce stam cost

[spare badger]

Having a long fight is more fun imo

[wise sparrow]

I played carno and was able to blitz through a herd of pachys and then 2 tenos because of it's stupid agility and the fact that the 2 herbivores that could fight carno (not stego fuck him) were nerfed into the ground and carno received nothing but buffs

[alpine plover]

So you want the same stam use damage relation as prepatch?

[wise sparrow]

Pre patch carno actually felt like carno. This carno feels like a faster allo

[keen plover]

Pachy deserved some ‘nerfs’

[spare badger]

Not really
Just let me use 15 slams instead of 10

[alpine plover]

As I said, we dont need drift buff, its ok wit acceleration buff and charge hitbox fix

[wise sparrow]

It needed bug fixes and a way to prevent stupidly long stuns

[keen plover]

Yeah but the charge radius should be reverted imo- although I understand why others might not want it back

[alpine plover]

I thini think we can all accept pachy deserved nerf

[keen plover]

Carno main take

[fresh laurel]

I agree

[wise sparrow]

As long as pachy isn't able to stun a carno by pressing right click once it is fine

The whole problem from pachy was its stun, which was apparently a bug

[alpine plover]

Yes I'm carno main, but that doesnt make my opinion about other dinos needi g nerf invalid

[fresh laurel]

Pachy vs one utah is a bit more easier for utah lmao

[keen plover]

Just a joke don’t worry

[alpine plover]

And I wouldn't say I'm a carno main, I'm a mid tier main meaning with the current roster carno main

Who...

[keen plover]

^

[alpine plover]

Did ask?

[keen plover]

Who did ask

[alpine plover]

Exactly

Who is Who?

Of whom?

[sinful cove]

https://tenor.com/view/the-isle-adapt-git-gud-skill-issue-gif-23598192

[alpine plover]

Like what?

Ia not a meme, is a constant in the life of a the iale player

[versed rune]

Based

[wise sparrow]

My favorite reaction was
"YOU FICKING CANBALL!! FUCK TOU!"

I got called a cannon ball once

People cant spell very well

Cannibloing

[sinful cove]

It is amusing watching people type cannibal as fast as they can before they get sent back to selection screen

[wise sparrow]

I'm not a cannibal if I dont eat the corpse

[sinful cove]

the feedback is right that just nerfing carno wont make the other animals less shit, but carno is the most easy animal right now with the biggest pvp potential regardless

[half girder]

revert the turning for carno and it’s fine

[alpine plover]

@ripe furnace ty, you are a man of culture

[half girder]

rn that thing is nutty

[wise obsidian]

Bruh

[ripe furnace]

And I love you random citizen

[alpine plover]

I'm carno main and i'm ok with that

[wise obsidian]

Carno has apex syndrome rn

[sinful cove]

nerfing it would still leave it as more appealing than something that needs to scale the map just to grow at a tolerable pace. utahraptor has a pounce problem yet again. unless carno is made utterly awful it will be more appealing then the other animals in their current state

[half girder]

ofc u are lol

[alpine plover]

Maybe becauss is the terrestial apex?

[ripe furnace]

Because there’s a million

[half girder]

the turning buff was not needed

[wise obsidian]

Only in this ecosystem

[ripe furnace]

But it wasn’t not needed

[half girder]

the accel speed is fine cuz it makes charging a lot easier

[alpine plover]

Prepatch drift but food retention buff, deal?

[ripe furnace]

No

If anything the food retention causes a problem

It helps them keep high numbers

[half girder]

carno is just something else rn

[wise obsidian]

Food retention isnt a problem because no one dares attack one another in a pack. The moment someone does the rest gang up on them and its a death sentence

[ripe furnace]

It’s a good animal everyone just likes it so everything gets jumped

[ripe furnace]

Yeah that’s because they don’t really need to food most of the time now

Every time a baby is near it’ll just run up to you

Instant family

[wise obsidian]

Even if they did have less food retention no one would kill each other unless its a solo player vs another solo player

[ripe furnace]

Juvis would be at a great disadvantage because of adults

[wise obsidian]

Kill a baby in front of everyone else? You're going to get looks or death

[ripe furnace]

Groups wouldn’t get that big

Atleast as big as now

[wise obsidian]

"Wouldn't get that big"

[ripe furnace]

Back then it was like groups of 3 with mostly juvis

[wise obsidian]

You underestimate people

[ripe furnace]

I remember people

[wise obsidian]

I've been in carno groups of 10 or around that

[alpine plover]

Dont know what carnos you meet but they only care if you kill a child from its pack

[ripe furnace]

Mostly post patch

[cyan radish]

Is it more enjoyable to play carno when 80% of the server is also carno?

[wise obsidian]

People care because being a cannibal is seen as a bad thing unless like everyone else agrees

[ripe furnace]

Makes no difference to me but even then I see mostly Utah’s

[alpine plover]

Everybodt agrees, Xd, civilized carnos with judge system

[cyan radish]

I've seen some utahs, but mostly carnos as I flew over the map

[ripe furnace]

I don’t like cannibalism unless it’s like a juvi or something

[cyan radish]

Also plenty of deinosuchus but they dont cause the same issue as a carno overpopulation

[wise sparrow]

Carnos are way too trusting. They literally see me run over to me and 2 call and instantly sit down. Then complain that they died

[ripe furnace]

I see a bunch of deinos and small teno herds

[half girder]

i usually cannibilize adults now

[ripe furnace]

Facts that’s what I’m saying

[alpine plover]

Cerato will fix carno megapacks

[ripe furnace]

Truth

[half girder]

try to keep the server from over populating

[ripe furnace]

Cring

[wise obsidian]

Yeah i know. I'm talking mainly when someone cannibalizes in a big group, and everyone has that chance of ganging up on the person

[wise sparrow]

Ah yes add another carnivore to help these carno megapacks instead of addressing the shit balance atm

[ripe furnace]

It actually will though

[wise obsidian]

What? No

[ripe furnace]

People will use carno way less

[wise sparrow]

It will only add to the problem

[half girder]

pachy should be way scarier rn but isn’t lol

[ripe furnace]

There’s only two dinosaurs on the carnivore side

[wise obsidian]

Pachy is just fodder now

[ripe furnace]

And carno is the better choice easily

[half girder]

teno tail isn’t scary at all

[ripe furnace]

Not this nonsense again 🤡

[wise sparrow]

Okay so now we have carno AND cerato megapacks while everything else gets shit on

[alpine plover]

Carno mega packs is caused by the lack of options

[ripe furnace]

There won’t be cerato mega packs

They’ll kill eachother a lot most likely

Mega packs of carno are only caused by lack of options

[half girder]

sad how people cried so much over territorial defensive hard hitting dinos so much, rip

[wise sparrow]

The lack of options is because all the other playables are shit or dont work

[half girder]

really nerfed them this patch

[alpine plover]

Cerato is the key cause they have very different niches so it just would reduce carno population by giving other options of mid tier carnis

[ripe furnace]

The tail damage is literally 100 damage less

[wise sparrow]

I cant brawl the defenseeve herbivores as a ambush predator

[ripe furnace]

That is not something to get depression over

[half girder]

lmao nope you can’t!

[ripe furnace]

Bad opinion

[half girder]

it is, tf is a teno to do against 2 cranks?

[wise obsidian]

Killing tenos and pachys pre patch was so easy. Devs only listened to the people that complained

[wise sparrow]

It wouldn't be as bad if it didn't eat up all your stamina AND if the kuck wasn't broken

[ripe furnace]

I’m inclined to think you are not real

[ripe furnace]

Run away

[half girder]

carnos*

[wise obsidian]

LOL WHAT

[half girder]

it can’t lmao

[ripe furnace]

Yes literally run into a forest or past water

[half girder]

Clueless asf man

[ripe furnace]

Or join a group

[wise sparrow]

Ah yes run away from the predator twice as fast as you that you were built to fight

[sinful cove]

forests dont hinder carnos anymore

[wise obsidian]

You're telling me a thing slower than carno should run?? Lmao

[half girder]

join a group?!

[ripe furnace]

Attack and run away there

[half girder]

BAHAHAHA

[wise obsidian]

Bruh moment

[ripe furnace]

You shouldn’t want to win against 2 carnos

[half girder]

as if there’s herbivores on anymore dude

[sinful cove]

i chased a pachy in to the woods and found them with relative ease as carno, they are agile enough to pursue in forests

[wise sparrow]

If anyone thinks a herbivore HAS to be in a herd to be viable, they need to do some research

[ripe furnace]

I see a bunch

[half girder]

what server?!

[ripe furnace]

Pachy needs help

[wise obsidian]

Clearly this guy does

[ripe furnace]

It’s viable without one but getting jumped is getting jumped

it’s not unviable because it can’t win a 2v1 with ease

[alpine plover]

No, also i think theres more carno because when there was oasis that was the place where more carnos died

[spare badger]

Who said 'with ease'

[wise sparrow]

Herbivores didn't all herd together. We only have proof of hadrosaur herd behavior. Nothing to indicate that other herbivores required herds to survive

[ripe furnace]

Videos game 🥸

[spare badger]

And 1 species of ceratopsian iirc

[sinful cove]

wasn't there evidence of massive ceratopsian herds as well

[ripe furnace]

Join other people to not die 🥸

[spare badger]

Not how balance works

[wise obsidian]

Ok carno main

[half girder]

this guy man

[ripe furnace]

It doesn’t need to win a 2v1 against carnos to be viable

[alpine plover]

Ok herbi main

[wise obsidian]

No one said that bruh

[ripe furnace]

And even then it still can 💀

[wise sparrow]

Okay so carnivores should be able to play solo but herbivores are forced to play a certain way to be viable

[half girder]

a good one should be able to defend itself

[wise obsidian]

I dont even main anything lmao

[ripe furnace]

Literally what you said

[ripe furnace]

You can play solo as a temp and be fine

[half girder]

but it lacks stam and dmg to do so

[ripe furnace]

🧢

[half girder]

what’s the cap in that?

[ripe furnace]

Skill problems

[half girder]

lmao

[wise sparrow]

A good teno should be able to fend off 2 carnos until it can make it to a jungle or river. Vs 1 carno it should shit on it unless it got ambushed

[ripe furnace]

Kill a carno the other one will leave you alone

[alpine plover]

No

[half girder]

^^^

i agree anky

[ripe furnace]

It’s not hard u just need skill

[half girder]

just kill one?

ok i’ll do that next time

[ripe furnace]

You can kill both but one is fine

[half girder]

lmaoooooo

[ripe furnace]

If you have skill

[half girder]

clearly this guy has only been on carno

[ripe furnace]

Cope

[half girder]

like 99.9% of the community rn

[wise sparrow]

Literally yes. Of course a teno shouldn't be soloing 2 carnos but it should be able to keep them at bay. And if it's up against 1 carbo it should be in teno's favor unless the carno got the ambush

[alpine plover]

If you as a teno are better than the carno you should kill it, doesnt matter how buffed the carno is

[sinful cove]

you could 1v1 a tenonto before the nerfs as carno with skill too but it was all just carno players whining about it and now that they have both the engagement advantage and no melee disadvantage they act like it is a skill thing

[alpine plover]

If you dont get baited you win, you get baited is your fault

[spare badger]

It shouldn't 2v1
It should be able to escape tho
By holding them off until it can get to a forest or a river where it can hand an advantage

In order to do this, make kick work and slam use less stam so teno can escape as well as defending itself somewhat

Teno doesn't need much
Just less stam drain on slam and functional moves

And fix diets pls

[wise sparrow]

Vs two carnos teno should use its tail to stun and run to cover, punishing dumb moves with kicks and tail slamming when the chance arises. Once it gets to cover the carnos would have to be suicidal to continue

[spare badger]

Exactly
Stun em and move towards safety

Literally my exact thought

[wise sparrow]

Vs 1 carno in a straight brawl teno should be able to defend itself through straight up brute force. A single carno has to ambush if it hopes to kill a competent teno

[spare badger]

Teno, the brawler, should win in a brawl. It's almost like it makes sense

[wise sparrow]

Vs 3 carnos... honestly its group limit should be 2. 3 doesn't make sense considering its hunting style

[spare badger]

Charge is what solo carnos should use especially since you can turn somewhat now

[half girder]

no guys teno shouldn’t be able to defend itself, only eat grass and die to 5 carnos

allo group size should be 3 carno 2

small game hunter so both carnos fill up

[spare badger]

Allo group size 3-4
Sucho 2-3
Carno 2-3

Bary 3
Teno 5

[half girder]

naw 3 allos max

[wise sparrow]

Honestly teno should be a relatively solitary animal. Maybe 3 tenos in a herd

[spare badger]

4 tenos

Feels right

Small groups
Pachy should be like 6

[half girder]

max pachy should be like 5

or 6

[spare badger]

Utah 6ish

Troodon 50

[half girder]

lmao

[wise sparrow]

I hope the devs dont make every single herbivore have a large group limit. It just feels really overused and not creative at all

[wise sparrow]

Still not enough to kill a teno

[spare badger]

Based on the trailers teno had a decent group size

[wise sparrow]

I stg if we get herding trike and anky I will cry

[half girder]

#balance-feedback message thoughts?

[half girder]

most likely will

[wise sparrow]

Watch all the herbivores only be viable in giant herds and rex annihilate a solo trike

[spare badger]

Trike and anky should be solo/pairs

I prefer solo

[wise sparrow]

Anky should be a very anti social animal

[half girder]

trike should hit super hard

it was capable of killing a rex in one strike

[wise sparrow]

Bu- but rex has stronger bite so it wins!!!!!!!

[spare badger]

Hadrosaurs in general should have big groups
Ceratopsians good sized ones
Galli in small flocks

[half girder]

deino should have a way larger bite force too

such a joke rn

[wise sparrow]

Dibble should be the most social ceratopsids. Just behind proto

[half girder]

i can’t wait for proto

the model is just too cute

i hope the court ship is the cutest thing in the game

[wise sparrow]

The most social ceratopsids should be

1. Proto
2. Dibble
3. Rhino
4. Ava
5. Styraco
6. Trike

[sinful cove]

you forget taco

taco making community burrows please

[wise sparrow]

I refuse to believe taco is a ceratopsid
I refuse to believe taco is a ceratopsid
I refuse to believe taco is a ceratopsid
I refuse to believe taco is a ceratopsid
I refuse to believe taco is a ceratopsid

[sinful cove]

seethe and cope, taco reigns supreme

[half girder]

since they’ll have dino’s burrowing and have knowledge of it i think they’ll make each burrow ability unique

[wise sparrow]

If ceratopsids had a family reunion taco would be the one locked up in its room playing league of legends

[half girder]

proto is fairly simple tho

[sinful cove]

Taco supreme

[calm ibex]

taco will save evrima

[sinful cove]

taco the true apex

[alpine plover]

I personally agree that Carno is fine as it is. And pachy/Teno need tweaking so they are able to punish Carno but are still main prey items it should be going after

@glass crag I agree with you on the Teno part, not so much Carno

[glass crag]

I think too many dino stats are adjusted at the same time. They should put all stats back to before the last update and sort out the real issue that was the Pachy.
To many other dinos have been nerfed or buffed and I feel we are left in a complete mess atm. Just my opinion, it’s frustrating playing atm.

[alpine plover]

The problem with nerfing and buffing creatures all the time is players will always find something to complain about

People wanted pachy and Teno nerfs, and a Carno buff. That happens and people complain

I think Carno is fine at the momment, the pachy nerfs weren’t needed, Teno needs less stam on the slam, maybe raise kick damage a little so it’s used as a main use of power while the slam is a utility to help the kick do more

That way it requires more skill to fight instead of standing in one place spamming RMB

[pale island]

I didn't see carno buff calls at all, I saw a Lotta pachy nerfs cause spam, and a Lotta teno stun nerf cause spam

[alpine plover]

It mainly had to do with its stamina

[pale island]

Oh, yeah, Stam buff, that was a thing, I was thinking like damage and turnspeed buffs

[alpine plover]

I think the turning might of been ok as long as the stamina wasn’t trash

But if they want it having bad stamina then it gains better turning

[pale island]

I haven't played in a bit, but really what from what im hearing teleportation and hitboxes are a real problem, so till those are fixed I don't think we can get a accurate read. Like pachy and teno, the spam was bad, but they could only hit the spam because hitting the tip of the tail= knockdown= death

[alpine plover]

The hitboxs aren’t horrible but they do need fixing

[half girder]

revert pachy honestly, just add in a stun window and dmg threshold after another pachy hit the dino, i didnt have an issue at all hunting pachys as carno, plus the new cam def makes pachy feel harder lol

revert pachy keep current carno, win win

[hollow canyon]

could work tbh, the turn rate nerf definitely has to go, idk who came up with that

and most of all: why

[fresh laurel]

prob because how easy it was to land

[half girder]

with new carno i feel like it'd be harder

[hollow canyon]

yea but... that was because Carno couldn't turn its way out of a wet paperbag

the animal turned like it was stuck in a tarpit

[fresh laurel]

never tried it but what would happen if pachy tried to charge headbutt carno to the face?

[hollow canyon]

if one gets hit by that with the current turn rate it's on Carno

[fresh laurel]

lets say carno isnt charging either

[hollow canyon]

it would break its skull

if we're talking about the game

that's a headfracture if you deal enough blunt damage

[fresh laurel]

why would i be talking irl...

but ye

[hollow canyon]

Idk, because it should be pretty obvious - where do you think the head fractured Carnos come from?

[fresh laurel]

people are acting like pachy charge turning nerf makes it impossible to fracture carno thats why

[hollow canyon]

If Carno is charging Pachy goes flying though

[hollow canyon]

I don't want to speak about that because I don't have enough experience in this match up now, but I believe it is very hard right now

[half girder]

honestly a pachy full charge to the head of a carno should just leave it on life support lmao

[hollow canyon]

too hard

[fresh laurel]

it shouldnt be killing carno but enough to almost guarantee a get away for pachy

[half girder]

yes.

enough dmg to scare the damn thing

but with cera

[fresh laurel]

pachy hitting cera face would either break cera crest or cera takes reduced dmg

[half girder]

yeah

[fresh laurel]

[half girder]

cera shouldnt get super fucked

[fresh laurel]

ingame i think cera takes reduced dmg

forcing pachy to aim for the body

[half girder]

but idk, this pachy just feels ass..

[fresh laurel]

i mean i managed to survive sorta fine with pachy as long as i had a friend

carno though...

is an avengers level threat

[half girder]

i dont want to play so damn immersed as pachy, if a carno brawls me i whoop thier ass.

its a game, i really dont see pachy being fun rn

[fresh laurel]

fun pachy = broken pachy tbh

[half girder]

again, tune some stuff

[fresh laurel]

maybe

i do think pachy survives fine with the turn nerf on ram though

[half girder]

like i said, dmg threshold after another pachy had hit the dino

and huge stun window\

i dont think it does

i tail rode one as carno..

[fresh laurel]

or make stuns only let you land one more hit instead funny wombo combo

[half girder]

well more then one lol

[fresh laurel]

before was funny how many hits stuns let you land

[half girder]

idk, pachy is just utterly unfun, dont think ill be playing

[fresh laurel]

join funni ootah

[half girder]

rather canni carnos as carno lol

[fresh laurel]

fair and respect

[half girder]

i played toooo much utah

plus its buggy asf rn

[fresh laurel]

works most of the time for me but yea prob best to try something new

[half girder]

well tbf everything is

[fresh laurel]

troll ppl as dryo

[half girder]

thats boring

[fresh laurel]

and die to utah cus funny speed dynamics

[half girder]

game overall rn is boring, just killing other carnos out of boredom then play pot

[fresh laurel]

when playing all i see are carnos and its quite sad

makes getting most nutrients a bit harder ngl

[half girder]

same, im trying to hunt a 6 carno pack rn

with help ofc

[fresh laurel]

as what

[half girder]

carno

[fresh laurel]

how many helping you

[half girder]

3

[alpine plover]

Cerato would definitely help balance out the land carnivores. In terms of diversity

People also play Carno because it’s the only land carnivore not designed as a pack hunter rn

[spare badger]

Gimme sucho

[rancid bluff]

bary, allo, cera, or sucho, any of those work

just some mid tier carnivore that can at the very least stand up to a carno while also being a good hunter in its own way

[dusky surge]

allo and sucho are a completely different bag of worms from bary and cera lmao

cera and bary clock in at around 1.1 and 1.3 tons respectively

allo clocks in at around 2.7 tons and sucho isn't even a mid-tier, it's a 4-5 ton large-tier

[rancid bluff]

yeah but they'd stand a better chance in the current roster than cera or bary, either one of those could definitely lose to a solo carno, which because of that and the carno being so fast a lot of people would still play carno

though I'd love to see a bary fight a carno, we didn't really get a glimpse of how that'd look in the concept

[dusky surge]

i doubt bary and cera can really "stand up" to a carno, specifically bary. An aquatic-focused fisher would only lose to the land speed-demon if carno decided to take a swim, which is always unwise for a carno

[rancid bluff]

I think if the bary has some sort of wrestle attack against carno it can escape it

maybe

[dusky surge]

i mean

it can also swim and dive, which is already extremely sufficient in escaping carno

Carno can barely even swim

[rancid bluff]

yeah so escaping a carno as bary shouldn't be a problem unless it's on land too long
cera is a different story though, in its concept it was shown to swim away from an allo while carrying a corpse, however it can't dive like bary so that'll be less deterring for a carno, and plus it'd be pretty dumb to have a fully terrestrial dinosaur like cera rely on water to escape

[spare badger]

Sucho works since it can be a bear and eat fish when nothing substantial is around
Of course it will steal tenos off carnos and eat subadult deinos so it works

Bary is harder to balance since it's not as robust as carno, but bary doesn't even have a model rn

Sucho is the animal that's the most complete that they can add
The model only changed slightly
The sounds are probably gonna stay
Give it a claw attack and gg ez sucho

[rancid bluff]

we have the design for bary already, considerably bulky for its size and niche with massive claws
and the bary's design has begun to grown on me, at least the bary in the ability concept, I don't like the original bary concept that was shown

[spare badger]

I image bary v carno being in Carno's favour, but bary would easily he able to fend it off long enough to escape to water or dense foliage.
If the bary chose to fight it would probably be a 55/45 - 60/40 matchup in Carno's favour

[spare badger]

Sucho has a full model though
Bary only has art as far as I know

[rancid bluff]

true but while sucho does have a model it lacks concept art, which could mean the devs aren't quite sure what they want to do with it yet

though a niche for sucho would be quite simple, bear

[spare badger]

Based on the fact it was planned for U3 I doubt it
Also teno hasn't gotten a concept art either, and neither has hypsi or dryo

[dusky surge]

teno has

so did hypsi

idk about dryo

[rancid bluff]

don't think that dryo did but it doesn't really have much special atm

[spare badger]

It does? For the life of me I can't find it

[rancid bluff]

maybe it'll get a cameo in a burrow concept later down the line

[dusky surge]

here's teno

hypsi too

[spare badger]

Ah yes this one
Slipped my mind since it looks so different from the others

Hypsi I have no excuse I'm just forgetful

[rancid bluff]

ohmygod

[spare badger]

Yea

1. Live in shallow
2. Eat fish
3. Eat crocodile that goes too close to shallow
4. Eat land dinos trying to drink
5. Kill allos for fun

[rancid bluff]

basically legacy sucho but with a little more functionality

[dusky surge]

Since growth is coming update 5 for hypsi, we'll see this little fucker in soon lmao, and I'm so excited

[spare badger]

Legacy sucho was close to working but legacy itself didn't fit for it

[dusky surge]

they can't add nesting without hypsi growth, obviously

[spare badger]

Lil fluff balls of doom

[rancid bluff]

it's so fucking adorable

I wonder how many corpses will be found

[dusky surge]

playing hypsi for the SOLE purpose of being that little guy is worth it imho

[spare badger]

True

[rancid bluff]

yeah

[spare badger]

Then you can make those little guys

[dusky surge]

idc if the juvi stage sucks im just going to spam its baby calls and run around

[rancid bluff]

how long would hypsi growth be? 5 minutes?

[dusky surge]

probably not that short

[spare badger]

Maybe 15?

[rancid bluff]

live for 10,5 however minutes
make babies
profit

[dusky surge]

I'd say 30 minutes, no diet buffs

Maybe

So perfect diet would be less than 15 minutes

[rancid bluff]

imagine trying to get mangos as baby hypsi

[dusky surge]

you'd need to grab the ones on the ground

or get an adult to help

[rancid bluff]

what if little hypsis could jump into the branches of a mango tree?

[spare badger]

They have to give us climbing sooner or later

Lemme climb a tree and spit on the peasants below

[rancid bluff]

oh god imagine trying to get full diets with baby hypsi, how fast would it be, hypsi feels like one of the dinos that needs a parent to survive

then again with a 30 minute growth time, I feel like players would just eat grass and wait, besides, the longer you get to see the adorable fresh spawn hypsi the better

[spare badger]

Diets matter less the smaller you get

On rex it'll be critical
On hypsi? Nobody really cares

[rancid bluff]

it sucks how the baby hypsi model isn't as cute as its appearance in the concept

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/664914260648001555/806266244369743892/HypsiJuvieRender.jpeg

hopefully it'll be edited

[spare badger]

It needs the little eyebrow tuffs

[rancid bluff]

yeah I just realized that, so it probably isn't even done model wise

it needs smaller arms, chubbier body, and... just needs to be recreated as the baby in the concept

[dusky surge]

i wonder if hatchlings will be weird pink fleshy things lmao

[rancid bluff]

that's something I think about too sometimes but it's better if you don't

jelly bean hypsi...

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/453424597061074955/943949449489707048/FLuwpVEXsAAIT-t.png

[spare badger]

Don't do that

Sometimes gameplay > realism
This is one such time

[rancid bluff]

imagine humans making rotisserie hypsis

[dusky surge]

Tribals might

But they're fucking horrible orcmen without sense of morals or reason so they're justified in all atrocities

Mercs can't eat dinosaurs apparently

[rancid bluff]

then what the hell do you do with a dino you kill?
or a dino you hit with your car?
or worst case, what do you do when there's no friend except you're homalocephale buddy

[dusky surge]

you just leave it there

you gain absolutely nothing for killing dinosaurs that we know of

which is good because why should you lmao

[rancid bluff]

I mean, they could make a nice trophy on your wall

taxidermy hypsi babies

[dusky surge]

sounds like a tribal thing tbh

[rancid bluff]

how would tribals know how to make taxidermy, at most they could hang skulls in their little man caves

[dusky surge]

mercs aren't there to make cool trophies, they're there to do a job. Tribals live and survive there, they don't care

[rancid bluff]

if I'm going to a dinosaur island for a reason that hasn't been specified and I kill a dinosaur, I'm gonna want to take some of that with me

is there a reason mercs even go to the island?

like what job are they doing

[dusky surge]

we dont know, but mercenary literally means gun for hire basically

[rancid bluff]

"oh can you believe it guys! we're being sent on vacation! kinda odd to send a group of mercenaries to a tropical island though"

famous last words

[dusky surge]

they probably know why they're there lmao

[rancid bluff]

yeah but it's funnier to think that they're just being sent there without knowing why

completely oblivious

maybe mercs could cut up dead dinosaurs, giving them to tribals as a peace offering

[dusky surge]

i dont think tribals do peace

[rancid bluff]

carno bits in your pocket

[dusky surge]

tribals can probably also eat mercs

so they'd probably just beat you to death, eat you and your dino meat

[rancid bluff]

are tribals going to be played by people or AI?

[dusky surge]

people

[rancid bluff]

if it's people playing as the tribals, they'll probably end up having morals

unless humans are put on tribal's diet

[dusky surge]

i dont even think tribals will have diets. Mercs sure as hell didn't

Diets are a dino mechanic

[rancid bluff]

imagine being a merc and having to search for mangos

[dusky surge]

Tribals have no need for growth or that stuff

[dusky surge]

I mean... Searching for oranges wouldn't be entirely inaccurate, since, scurvy

[rancid bluff]

imagine being in a jeep with other mercs and one says "wait stop! I need oranges"

merc diets is almost as bad as an idea as merc nesting
ok nowhere near as bad

[dusky surge]

well in the brief period they were on the QA test, they had zero diets while everything else did, so probably none of that

[rancid bluff]

graphic egg laying animations for mercs

that's something I don't want to picture again

[dusky surge]

i honestly really dislike the idea of mercs feeling encouraged to kill dinosaurs frequently

it would make for horrible gameplay

self-defence should be key imho

[rancid bluff]

I don't think they should feel encouraged to, but they should be able to do something with that

[dusky surge]

if you go around killing dinosaurs, it's not a horror game, it's a glorified hunting sim

[mental roost]

Merc's should squat and scream repeatedly as their mating display animation

[spare badger]

Mercs shouldn't try and kill dinos
They should only do it effectively in self defense

[rancid bluff]

merc courting

[dusky surge]

i mean, mercs are only adults, so that's already well off the table lmao

[mental roost]

Child soldiers. Cannon fodder.(I'm joking..)

[dusky surge]

mercs weren't even able to group in the QA test lmao

[rancid bluff]

what'd happen if you hit a dinosaur with a jeep
when gore is added, will it become a gory mess if it's something small-ish
will it just get flung
or will nothing happen

[spare badger]

Get flung or run over probably

[mental roost]

The jeep goes flying as the physics engine breaks down and implodes.

[dusky surge]

i mean, hit a moose irl and that'll probably be what happens to the jeep in-game, especially with the larger animals.

[rancid bluff]

squishing a hypsi with a jeep

[dusky surge]

Moose literally fuck up vehicles that hit them

[rancid bluff]

a brachi stands in front of the path of a jeep just for the hell of it

[dusky surge]

So hitting shit like carno would just fucking total the jeep at high speeds. It MIGHT kill the carno but more than likely the jeep will suffer more. Then you get to rex sizes and the car barely stands a chance

a moose weighs up to 700kg lmao. No fucking way is a car surviving carno+ sized animals

[rancid bluff]

what if you hit a dryo

[dusky surge]

It'd damage the car and probably kill the dryo

120kg is still nothing to scoff at

Hitting shit with your car would probably only be fun for a small bit till your car is wrecked and your abandoned in the middle of nowhere at night, surrounded by dinosaurs

[mental roost]

Have they specified or figured out what kind of jeep model they want to go for?? Or are they going for multiple kinds of jeeps? Could be neat to see more than one type..but also more work.

[spare badger]

They are so tall they will fly into the windshield and kill everyone inside

I imagine hitting a carno will do something similar

[dusky surge]

and frankly, based on how they describe the difficulty of obtaining and maintaining a jeep, i'd rather keep the jeep than hit a dino

[spare badger]

Depending on how large the carno is

[rancid bluff]

I think the chance of hitting a dinosaur with a car while driving would bring up more horror
if you hit a dryo, not much damage to the jeep but damage is damage, and you probably also feel bad, or feel disgusted if the dryo gets mutilated by the impact

then there's hitting a teno or carno, nobody wins there

[spare badger]

If hitting a 700kg moose destroys a car
What will happen when it hits a 1.6 ton teno?

[dusky surge]

it'd fuck up the car

[mental roost]

Running over a sub adult Carno is a hard action.. but one must have the will to do it in the first place. A necessity

[spare badger]

Teno would live that's for sure

[rancid bluff]

yeah but probably with a leg and body fracture at once

[spare badger]

Probably body

[dusky surge]

i mean, it'd probably be decently easy to dodge the car if you saw it coming. It's a car, you can get out of the way and it can't turn nearly as well as you

[rancid bluff]

I imagine though it'd be rare to accidentally hit a dino with a jeep, even if you don't see the dino surely the dino will at least hear the jeep

[spare badger]

I imagine it driving down a narrow forested road and you are running through and you collide

[spare badger]

Probably

[dusky surge]

a dino will probably get out of the way of a jeep regardless

it'd fuck the animal up bigtime with fractures and damage

i doubt even a rex is walking out of an accident unscathed

[spare badger]

Nah big dinos will facetank it for fun
Trike just stand there and impales the car

[rancid bluff]

yeah a rex would probably have a leg fracture or more from being hit

[spare badger]

Anky should be immune to cars

[rancid bluff]

that could result in a head fracture

meanwhile a brachi just deciding to block a jeeps path for the hell of it

[dusky surge]

leg fracture would be horrible for rex tho, since we see that fractures seem to take longer to heal depending on size in the game atm, and rex needs speed to hunt, so you'd end up with a rex that gets fucking impaled by the first trike that sees them

[mental roost]

I wonder how it'd work if you hit a 8 ton Deino's tail...would the car still count that as breaking or just roll over it due to Deino not being all that tall??

[spare badger]

You should roll over it

[dusky surge]

you should 100% be allowed to die in a car accident lmao

[spare badger]

Yup

[rancid bluff]

if you hit the tail it'd probably do nothing to either as long as tail fractures aren't added
but if the deino's body is in the path, then that's a different story

[mental roost]

Reminds me of people slamming their horses into trees in RDR2

[rancid bluff]

I imagine a deino in the road would be the speed bump that growls

imagine a car runs over a deino, the deino acts as a ramp and sends the car 20 feet forward and destroys the jeep

[mental roost]

I mean.. Yeah. Deino isn't a very tall animal, it's very WIDE and low to the ground.. Though if it was trotting then maybe not the ideal ramp.

[dusky surge]

and yet its still as tall as a human lmao

even being so low

its just a fucking massive creature

[rancid bluff]

can deino even get fractures?

[mental roost]

It can apparently. There was a video clip somewhere of one with a leg fracture

it looked... really wonky and weird.

Deino is basically a giant square with a rectangle on the front and a big triangle on the back

[rancid bluff]

I need to see that, where did you find that video

[mental roost]

I honestly don't recall, rip. It was released sometime back during either open diet testing or u4 release
(Youtube obviously). It was like a 20-30 second video though.

[prime folio]

Utah pounce onto Tenonto seems like it never hits

[alpine plover]

@ripe furnace pachy works well, is jsut nerfed, no bugs, what does have bugs as you said is teno kick hitbox bugs

@wise sparrow why should carno get its drift agiluty nerf, but pachy should turn when ramming as fast as when they are not, is not fair, just revert carno drift, keeping its new acceleration

And again, herbis cant smell blood, it will be only used to hunt down injured carnivores, and as you know herbivores are not hunters, but footprint tracks yeah why not, but not as good as carnivore's

@glass crag teno can perfectly fight a carno 1vs1, if you fall for the carno baits that is your fault

[languid tundra]

I dont think deino should get a lunge/bite fracture, maybe if you hold it while the prey tries to escape and they somehow implement death rolling, then fracture away friend, but unless its already eating, crocs dont fracture til its doing the roly poly, or its cronchin a chicken...

[mighty knot]

What alternative do you suggest for stopping stegos from hunting deinos the way they do now?

[wise sparrow]

Swimming away

What's it gonna do? Swim after you? There are no more shallows so deino isn't getting caught between a rock and a death cow anymore

[wanton hedge]

8 ton gator should swim away from stego wich drink or is near water? lmao

[rich fractal]

stegos might actually evolve fins and gills if they stay in water much longer

[wise sparrow]

Gator should swim away from the 6 ton spike cow that they literally dont have to interact with. PvP isn't always the solution

[mighty knot]

Exactly, stego isn't the bigger animal.

[wanton hedge]

look at the stego head and they still just hunt deinos should it be like that? real life the steg would get crashed head in 1 bite

[mighty knot]

The stego is faster on land anyway. I don't care if it's a gator, it's the biggest thing on the island and yet multiple of them are forced to swim away just because a single stego puts it's tail on the water and there's nothing they can do about that.

[wise sparrow]

Dont even try with that argument because I can make it blow up in your face by saying, in real life stego would 1 shot deino with those spikes

[wanton hedge]

stego should be able to kill deinos on land but hunt on water or don't care if there is 3 deinos or more while drinking

[mighty knot]

Deino already has no speed or stam on land, it can't afford to either be aggressive of even so much as distance itself from the water regardless

[wanton hedge]

im a stego player/deino i see both side it shouldn't be like that

[mighty knot]

Giving it fracture wouldn't make it a land predator

It would just make the stegos keep their distance, as they should

[wise sparrow]

Rn deino cant hunt stego because its grab is basically a copy and paste of mosa grab from BoB. Once struggle mechanics are in this will change

[mighty knot]

Then why does stego have to be able to hunt them right now?

Why can't it just be balanced?

Stegos should consider keeping their distance from deinos, and deinos shouldn't have the option to be aggressive.

They already don't have the option to be aggressive on land, they are slow and need to return to water every 5 minutes in order not to dry out

[wanton hedge]

ye but rn 3 deinos vs 1 stego most times will stego win or run away lol

there is no chance to kill a steg as a deino unless it rest near u

[mighty knot]

Hence why giving deino large (and very fitting) fracture damage would help deter them.

It wouldn't let them hunt stegos

Or anything on land

It would straight up just give stegos a reason to fear something that's 1.5 tons larger than it and who's mouth is big enough to eat a raptor whole.

Wouldn't it be funny how that works

[wanton hedge]

stego is 6 tons

[mighty knot]

Deino is 8 afaik right?

[wanton hedge]

ye

[mighty knot]

Ah so 2 tons smaller

I thought stego was around 6.4

[wise sparrow]

How exactly will fractures make this better? Okay so now crocs can leg/head fracture stegos. They will either get a leg fracture and root the stego in place making everything even worse, or they get head fracture and chase the stego onto land. It would cause deino to win in a face tank and because the only way deino and stego can fight each other is via face tanking, deinorex from early update 3 would make a return. (Not to mention all of this could've been avoided if we didn't add 2 fucking apexes into an ecosystem of smalls and psuedo mids)

[mighty knot]

Good, now stegos would think twice about seeking out a fight with deinos. Deinorex isn't real because deino doesn't function on land. Stego is smaller and faster. It should run. And it wouldn't even be a challenge to avoid the deinos.

But I agree that adding either of them was the wrong move lol

[rich fractal]

ya in theory you could break the trolling stegos leg and swim away then it might think this wasnt worth the troll

[mighty knot]

Or when some clown stego puts it's tail on the water, the deino flies out of the water and snaps it's leg, causing it to regret it's decision. That would be awesome, the stegos would actually have a reason not to be dumb.

Or maybe it fractures the body, and it's tail attack becomes too much stamina to use effectively against the deino, forcing it to retreat. Again, awesome outcome balance wise.

I genuinely don't see why it's a good thing that stegos can troll deinos the way the do now and the way they have been. The devs have done a great job avoiding deinorex and have continued to nerf it's land performance. It's perfectly helpless on land right now speed and stamina wise.

However something very clearly needs to be done about stegos picking fights with deinos which weight 2 tons more than themselves literally at the waters edge.

[wanton hedge]

agreed

[calm ibex]

ye, downsizing deinos so we can get rid of this feels like the right solution

[spare badger]

Just because Deino is bigger doesn't mean it will win

May I introduce you to the armoured potato known as anky?

Anky will have a winning matchup vs every carnivore in the game

Despite being sucho's weight

[mighty knot]

Stego isn't anky

Stego is fleshy in all places but tail and it's head is tiny and unarmored

I agree that anky would just deflect a deino (if not get pushed a little) but stego would get it's leg grabbed and dragged into the water or get it's head chomped clean off.

Talking realistically stego would still die, and talking game balance is what we already did, stego should still not win against a lunge. My point still stands.

[spare badger]

My point was just because Deino is heavier doesn't mean it will win
Stego is simply too large to lunge and does too much damage to fight

Deino shouldn't really be tangling with stego at all, those spikes are much too dangerous

If it was something like a para I could imagine deino tug of warring it since para doesn't have a super damaging move
But stego does

Stego shouldnt be in the roster rn it's just too big

[mighty knot]

I agree that weight doesn't mean much on it's own, but deino is moving fast. I think that warrants fracture damage in order to make it so that stego would regret sitting next to the water.

Giving deino fracture with lunge would literally just mean stego needs to be scared of the water instead of waiting at the water to impale more deinos

[spare badger]

What would fracture really do for it?

[mighty knot]

This would only apply to big lunge too since that's the only time it moves fast like that

[mighty knot]

Look at my previous messages

Discourages stegos

Hits it's head: dazed, can't fight back, needs to run

Body: stam cost too large to fight, needs to run

Leg: the only actual punishment for picking fights with deino, it has to win the fight

Which it just may, I'm not suggesting a damage increase

Only the additional of fracture to it's riverside lunge

[spare badger]

Head fracture doesn't affect tail damage but does make it blind so that could work
Body let's stego use half the swings. Still probably enough to kill a Deino tho
Leg does nothing to discourage it, stego still sits there and swings, stego doesn't care about movement speed much

[mighty knot]

Either way it works to solve the issue of stego trolling and does not cause any other issues

[mighty knot]

So it helps a lot even according to you

[spare badger]

Discourage stego? Maybe, I could see it working

But giving lunge fracture fucks over animals like sucho in the future

[mighty knot]

How so

Sucho is small enough to warrant a tug of war kind of thing

[spare badger]

Thinking about it, yea fracture would help vs stego

But if deino fractures a suchos leg sucho can't get away and deino out dps's sucho

[mighty knot]

That's true I suppose

But that would also be on the suck would it not?

[hollow canyon]

wait does it?

[spare badger]

Sucho is too big to lunge and is semi aquatic so having a matchup that one-sided would make sucho bad

[mighty knot]

I guess sucho specifically might be an issue

[spare badger]

Not really since that's it's environment and you can't see anything in water
And being essentially one shot as a >4 ton animal is kinda dumb

[mighty knot]

Fair

As for right now I think it's the best solution

[hollow canyon]

Controversial take here: don't buff Deino, nerf Stego's damage, buff Stego's bleed

[spare badger]

Unless they make clearer water that sucho and other similar animals live in I feel like fractures would fuck them over too much

[mighty knot]

Or lowering stegos health (also suggested for a lot of other reasons by other people) would cause them to stay awag

[spare badger]

Downsize stego temporarily

[hollow canyon]

This way Stego remains lethal to smaller stuff - it doesn't oneshot them but it takes them out of the fight via bleed, meanwhile Deinosuchus with its absurd bleed resistance can take that and threaten Stego due to the fact that Stego's dps is now lower.

[spare badger]

Just make stego 5t for a bit so it has less health and is easier to deal with
Buff it's size when more playables that can kill it come in

[hollow canyon]

E.g. make Stego deal "only" 900 damage, and give the thagomizer jab a x1.5 bleed output

[spare badger]

Size nerf would also mean a damage nerf imo

[hollow canyon]

I don't think you need to tinker with Stego's size

it's literally all about its damage output

the animal has such a terrifying dps that even if ambushed it can just make up for the health difference between Deino and itself via whacking it over the head with the tail and outdpsing two Deinos at once.

as in - the animal literally puts out a higher dps than 2 Deinos at once

tune that down, increase the bleed so that if Carno gets hit it has to focus on its survival rather than thinking about how to take that Stego down and that should do it

Utah would still get oneshot, it's just a change to Carno and Tenonto matchups

and Deino of course

[wise sparrow]

Downsize both apexes for now and Add struggle mechanics now that deino wouldn't outweigh everything by so much

So now deino can grab stego without it being unfair, it gives actual counterplay to deino other than "dont get grabbed lol" and it brings both animals in line with our current roster

[hollow canyon]

That would be the best solution ever and I couldn't upvote it enough but... there's a tiny problem with what you're suggesting

"Add struggle mechanics" is the issue

that would require a tonne of work and to be perfectly honest - I think that would likely be the most buggy part of the game as it is

[spare badger]

Imo there should be some counterplay to being grabbed by a deino
Likes having groupmates attack it, and after doing x amount of damage the deino runs out of stamina and drops it or something

It would only actually work for mid tiers like Allo, Alberto and Maia who could damage it enough but those animals being 1 shot for drinking which is basically RNG isn't fair

So counterplay for deino would be to group
Still a bad mechanic but better than before

[wise sparrow]

Alberto is literally in the fucking grab range. Imagine dumping all that time into an animal just to get it yeeted because haha big croc

[spare badger]

Yea
Deino is too big for the game

[mighty knot]

Deino isn't right for the isle tbh

They had to make it so unrealistic as well too to balance it

Mostly the bite force

[spare badger]

So doing damage to it should take chunks of its stam away so it has to drop the dino
And the dino should have a lunge immunity (similar to stun immunity) right after being grabbed

All these guys are one shot except cory and maybe plateo

And these guys will take a few hours to grow
It's hardly fair

[rich fractal]

the task of balancing dino's sounds so fun

[spare badger]

Deino is just a bad playable for a game like this

It one shots half the cast and does nothing to the rest

Other dinos is easier
Teno v carno? Who can run? Carno, therefore teno has the advantage
Maia v Allo? Who can run? Maia, so Allo has the advantage

That's the theory behind most balance

[vague eagle]

Just a random thought with deino. Coming from someone who has played over 200 hours as the gator in Evrima. Perhaps a good balance idea would be reducing the creatures it can carry. Instead of doing half of what it weighs, what about a quarter? So a full grown gator could only carry up to 2 tons. Sure that mean that it can't pick up more grown stegos and the likes, but frankly that's fine. But in exchange for that, why not buff its bite power? It lunges out and bites hard with a short stun but creatures with more health can survive the blow and potentially get away unless the gator gets a headshot. Which would make sense IMO

[alpine plover]

What’s the main issue with Deino

[hollow canyon]

Hell, so is Sucho unless it gets an up-size.

[vague eagle]

Not saying that deino is bad at this moment in time. More I'm concerned about the future. As someone who has grabbed many creatures and been grabbed many times. It is frustrating to lose an hour plus of hard work surviving to someone who is just patiently waiting in the water. It's satisfying as a gator to get those ambushes off, but what about later on when creatures weight just under 4 tons and take a good 2-3 hours? Should they really just lose their dino because they got unlucky with no counterplay? This is why in the future, changing what they can pick up and carry might be beneficial for everyone. Giving them bite force increase was always the plan to begin with if I recall correctly as well. No sense overtuning them and making them unstoppable after all.

[spare badger]

Sucho better be 4.2 tons like Nova has it

[hollow canyon]

That's already an upsized Sucho but yes, that's what it'd better be lest it gets annihilated by the oneshot machine.

[calm ibex]

upsize just to not have to deal with obnoxious design 🙂

[spare badger]

Even if it's upsized it's

1. Better for gameplay
2. Could be realistic (but cursed by serenos basement)

[hollow canyon]

All the specimena in the basement are smaller than the holotype

[spare badger]

I was referring to the new expedition with fossils not yet described
Unless they have been and I missed it

[hollow canyon]

I mean if they find some then maybe, as for now I haven't found any info about their findings being larger than the holotype

iirc the expedition didn't even take place yet

[spare badger]

It could grow larger feesibly based on its family
Is it likely? Who knows
But 4.2 ton sucho works best for the isle, and since when does this game care about accuracy

[hollow canyon]

Idk about basing it on its family, Cristatusaurus is kind of sort of slightly larger than Sucho potentially but it's still short of 4t

[wise sparrow]

Self upvote moment

On a more serious note, until deino has a grab that actually functions, stego will always trash deino. If deino is able to kill stego, then we just get deinorex

[rich fractal]

you supposed to wait till you already have upvotes then people wont notice

[brittle dirge]

A proper struggle mechanic for those that are grabbed/pounced and a tug of war one for creature's Deino cannot grab would give this ability some level of skill beyond "I, the Deino, have sat underwater and pressed right click. Ggs"

[wanton hedge]

u keep complaining about ,, deinorex '' but we have rn a ,, stegorex '' and its even worse then ,, deinorex '' beacuse it can also move on land unlike deino

[void rapids]

Yeah stego right now is the apex predator lol

It is literally perfect for hunting down carnos, other herbis and gators

[dim radish]

The meat eating, front facing stego we all know and love.
One shall not make a quick movement, the steg likes to ambush and kill it's prey with a powerful bite into their skull before feeding it to their young

[void rapids]

Lol pretty much, they are herbis that are perfect for hunting things, same with pachy

[wise sparrow]

1. How the hell are your quotations on the ground

2. At least stego has a predator (if it wasn't bugged). If deino had an advantage vs stego in a fight then the crocs would form megapacks and mow down stegos. Eating all the food they see, forcing everyone to either join the deinos or play herbivores. Then the rivers would be lined with a million deinos because of the overpopulation.

Stego is at least super vulnerable as a baby. Deino is almost guaranteed to get to at least 50%. It would result in a stupid amount of overpopulation as deino basically owns the island.

I'm not supporting stego. It was a stupid addition. But it's the only check to deino because of deinos natural bleed resistance. At least stego has utah as a check normally

The better option is too...

1. Remove both animals
2. Downsize both animals temporarily
3. Remove both animals

You've gotta think past a single matchup and think about "if I make deino have no bad matchups, how will it effect everything else"

[wanton hedge]

i agree with part remove both animals but i still think when they are in game deino should atleast make stego run from water and don't just stand on line of it and go fishing

[wise sparrow]

If deino can beat stego in a shoreline then it can beat it on land anywhere. If you keep both animals the better option would be to lower stegos damage when it's in a certain depth of water

[wanton hedge]

remember that it still 4 hits in head as a deino from steg and its die i just don't want stegs go fishing everytime

[wise sparrow]

Drag would slow the tail down, thus meaning less damage, but stego would shit on deino in dry areas away from water

[wanton hedge]

stego should destroy deino on land i agree with that but rn it destroy on water and on land

[wise sparrow]

So deino would win if it was in water. if the stego's tail is in water it should do less damage. That would stop it from spear fishing deino, but also let stego win on land. Best part is this would require 0 stat changes

[wanton hedge]

agreed but propably we need to wait 3 months for bug fixes and 6 for balance lmao

[rich fractal]

is that even something they can just add in tho

[wise sparrow]

Yea. I'm literally tempted to make my own game at this point.

[wise sparrow]

Yea probably. Will they add it? Probably not

[rich fractal]

but it still gives stegos no reason to respect crocs, they will just stand 3 feet away from water instead of 3 feet in, which is slightly better i guess

[wise sparrow]

If they are not in the water then that's problem solved. They will respect crocs in their turf and crocs will respect stegos on their turf

[rich fractal]

solves spear fishing ya, just not the immersion break of no fear to the point of trolling

hence why id prefer it can either grab or scare away most things unless its actually big

[fresh laurel]

Make deino lunge do more stun or something when used on water floor due to it having more momentum

Couldnt that make stegos fear water deinos and deinos still fear stegos on land?

[wise sparrow]

Not at all. Besides that's a really lazy fix

[fresh laurel]

Ill admit i would rather have a tug of war mechanic

But if i was to think of a tempory fix it would be that

[ripe furnace]

Stego can always just walk away lol

[alpine plover]

@sinful cove I have a hot take

Drastically reduce Teno's combat prowess, make it better at escaping

[sinful cove]

[fresh laurel]

hot take bring back funni update 2 utah

balanced and fair

while we're at it lets bring back update 2 carno

and update 3 ptera and deino

[hollow canyon]

Honestly, I probably wouldn't mind that at this point, it's an absolutely terrible idea going into the future where we're supposed to have the mid tiers like Allo, Alberto and what not but... who cares? We're not going to have those animals in the game for years most likely so why not?

[fresh laurel]

update 2 utah pack would prob clap a sucho tbh

i dont remember but when did utah get its pounce endlag?

[hollow canyon]

After update 2, iirc update 3

[mental roost]

Back when it only took 4 utah's pouncing a stego to either kill it outright or put it on death's door...

[hollow canyon]

both Carno and Utah were absurdly powerful in update 2, I honestly don't know which one was more busted at the time, then again Tenonto was still playable, Stego was the only one that was really screwed but I think it could just be left the way it is now

u2 Utahs vs current Stego would be a tough fight for both sides

assuming Stego could use the environment of course, if it couldn't then it would still be fodder

[alpine plover]

It can competently brawl still, just that fleeing will always be the best method. Only perfect diet or beefy Teno's get a pass to go fight most confidently

[hollow canyon]

Diets don't have that big of an effect on fighting capabilities of dinosaurs I'm pretty sure.

[mental roost]

Let Tenoto use steroid shots from human settlements to let it boost its stats to where it can reliably fight a single Allo.

[alpine plover]

i have an idea for steroids

[fresh laurel]

stegos only fear

[fresh laurel]

if stego goes to water camp a utah deino would give it a good bite

trees dont slide utah off anymore

[hollow canyon]

That's what I'm saying - trees would have to throw Utahs off

otherwise Stego ends up being fodder

well... and everything else would be even worse

[mental roost]

I hope you’re happy

[dreamy slate]

lizardfolk tenontosaurus

[mental roost]

I can't believe Tenotosaurus resorted to abusing steroids. So messed up.

[sinful cove]

No offense but that sounds horrid, and sounds like something one of those “all berbivores should just run” jurassic park t rex fanatics would want

[spare badger]

i am playing carno for the first time since it came out and wow this thing is so easy to grow compared to teno

its not even fair

[sinful cove]

If tenonto becomes something that just hauls ass from same tier predators and barely foghts back then it will become as unappealing as dryo and barely be played. Herbivores need fighters

[alpine plover]

Not really

[spare badger]

took me 5 minutes to get full diet and water and sit in a bush

[sinful cove]

Yeah it sucks ass. Carno grows easier, is faster and has an equal chance in the melee with tenonto

[alpine plover]

I think it's circumstantial

[sinful cove]

Yeah really

[alpine plover]

Trike/Anky should absolutely fight off any and everything

[spare badger]

of course. Teno wont fight a spino.

it should fight carno though

[alpine plover]

It should

[mental roost]

Tenoto should be fine brawling anything smaller or around its size, but still able to flee from predators it can't(Allo... Alberto I don't know)

[sinful cove]

We're going to have plenty of pathetic flight herbivores and cc and run herbivores we dont need to ruin the brawlers just because people dont want their precious carno to break a nail

[mental roost]

Steroid Tenoto: let it happen.

[alpine plover]

But running should be an equally optimal strategy

Currently it's not

[spare badger]

there is nothing teno can run from right now

no sucho, no allo, no alberto, no nothing

[mental roost]

I don't think the current scent mechanic is helping much either.....

[alpine plover]

Utahs or Carno's notice you?
It's always brawl time. They'll catch you unless there's some really thick ass jungle right beside you
The tracking system makes this worse

[sinful cove]

Equally optimal shouldn’t mean neutering the animals gameplay

[alpine plover]

Tradeoff

Teno and Pachy.... are kinda overtuned to compensate the lack of the running strategy

[sinful cove]

About as good of a tradeoff as if i burnt down your house and then gave you an rv

[spare badger]

not really

[dusky surge]

teno is the fastest quadruped as confirmed by devs. Carno and utah are literally two of the fastest animals, flat. Of course teno won't seem so fast when its two comparisons are fucking speed demons by design

[alpine plover]

Perhaps it could be just the design of the matchup

[spare badger]

thats probably why it feels so slow. Literally the other 3 animals that are common are carno, utah and pachy

[dusky surge]

if we had cera, allo, any land apex predator, or so on, teno would seem significantly faster

[alpine plover]

That's true, I had some concerns that Teno may have been too good against something like Cera or up given it's capabilities

But it seems to have been nerfed again I heard

[dusky surge]

teno seems slow because it is in an ecosystem where every land predator are literally some of the fastest

[mental roost]

I don't think I'd mind a tenoto speedrun(TINY speedbuff) once Allo and Alberto are in... but I'd be super reluctant to do that for fear of messing up how it plays with carno and utah... Like changing kick to the damaging tool...also no clue how fast Allo will be but I'm thinking around 37 km/h at full adult... just a random guess.

Pachy is... weirdly slow for an animal its size.. which is also kinda weird and not sure how well that'll play out in the future.

[dusky surge]

that's a good thing imho

[alpine plover]

Yeah, it should fracture and run

[dusky surge]

i always liked pachy being slow for size

since it fucking disables its hunter

[alpine plover]

Or brawl if it's competent

[spare badger]

isnt 37 km/h how fast sucho is irl? that seems kinda low

[mental roost]

Well it fits for the current roster.. just not sure how well that'll stack up in the future... -also wtf is with juvenile and sub adult Pachy getting S L O W E R as they grow and then gaining speed at like 74%

[alpine plover]

Idk, growth weird as normal

[dusky surge]

thats what happens with the new juvi anims

[mental roost]

I was spitballing a number, rip.. I wouldn't put Allo anywhere above 40 km in-game though, because then.. it could cause issues for Tenoto and Pachy.. considering it could be 2.8 tons or something depending upon what they want from Allo

[mental roost]

At least hatchling Pachy is less insufferable...now if only Juvenile(around late juvenile, 30-40% range), and sub adult got some love..

[dusky surge]

37km/hr in this game would be pretty insanely fast for sucho

hatchling pachy isn't even in yet lmao

[mental roost]

Fresh spawn, rip

[spare badger]

probably would have 0 stamina to compensate

[mental roost]

It goes like 27 km now, as opposed to the 18.8 km it was before the new animations

[dusky surge]

hatchling is likely going to be insanely slow tbh

for all animals

[spare badger]

(Thats the christato estimate which may or may not be the same thing as sucho)

[spare badger]

I really like the increased stam for juvies thing

[mental roost]

Imagine having the old juvi pachy speed, and the current diet placements.

[alpine plover]

yikes

[mental roost]

I've played Pachy in the new update.. It still makes me want to game over myself trying to get all three nutrients.

[dusky surge]

here's my take

diet positions are actually good as they are

the fucking growth combo with diets tho? fuck that

growth bonus should be earned through more than just diets

[alpine plover]

Again, growth should be 20 mins

[dusky surge]

diet buffs are actually really damn cool and add something unique

[dusky surge]

what

[mental roost]

What

[alpine plover]

Shouldn't be hours long(unless we're talking apexes)

[spare badger]

lmao so hypsi growth is 30 seconds?

[alpine plover]

IF it should be this long, there needs to be a slew of mechanics engaging enough to justify this time

Cause ain't no fucking way, you can tell a newcomer this is good and get them to play with you

[dusky surge]

okay this is literally a dogwater take

[fresh laurel]

wait so carno is under one hour?

thats gonna ruin game even more rn XD

[spare badger]

Growing should be a long process

[fresh laurel]

why grow a utah or pachy when you could grow carno that would be under an hour

[alpine plover]

It's a hot take, make mechanics if this system is to stay

[spare badger]

they just have to make it engaging (Which they have yet to do)

[fresh laurel]

or make juvie gameplay fun 😄

how about that?

[alpine plover]

Essentially

[spare badger]

you say make juvie gameplay short, we say make it engaging but keep the lengt

[alpine plover]

Growth shouldn't have even come without being paired with the "plans for juvies"

[fresh laurel]

make juvie stage short but make sub stage the longest stage?

[mental roost]

I feel like that should only ever be a server option thing... ...Sort of like the free grow servers now... but then again:LAG CITY.

Making gameplay more fun and not just a PvP thing would certainly help though, as I still find myself listening to and watching videos instead of playing the actual game pretty frequently.

[alpine plover]

I'm saying in the absence of mechanics there shouldn't be growth this long.

[spare badger]

if it takes only 20 minutes to grow a carno how overrun would the servers be? stego gets what, a 45 minute growth

[fresh laurel]

i think it would be cool to make sub adults have different niches from their adult forms but make them your longest growth stage while making juvie stage shorter