balance-feedback-discussion

[hollow canyon]

I don't care for cannibals and I'd probably cannibalise myself if I ever felt like doing so

I mean I got attacked by one small Carno today when I was on my adult Carno just chilling(he seemingly thought I was afk I believe)

oh, another Tenonto call

[fresh laurel]

im fine with carno cannibles but im just surprised for utah ones tbh

[hollow canyon]

Hmm... I'm not really, I mean since the diets are out I haven't cannibalised any Utahs but

I used to do that a lot back in the day

[fresh laurel]

same

[hollow canyon]

and I know that people that use discord will typically just kill other Utahs

[fresh laurel]

but really to eat :p

[hollow canyon]

on sight

[fresh laurel]

ik

[hollow canyon]

I've done it for all kinds of reasons

for food, for fun, or even because they said something dumb on global chat

back when global was on I'd specifically hunt people that I found acting obnoxious on it

damn such a shame it's no longer a thing, the game has lost so much of its charm when it was disabled

[fresh laurel]

still wish global was an option

[hollow canyon]

I didn't even know how badly I was missing it until I started to play PoT

[fresh laurel]

was fun watching 2 people fight on global

[fresh laurel]

at least bring back pack chat...

[hollow canyon]

I found that somewhat entertaining but the best part was watching the reactions of people that I'd killed

[hollow canyon]

I'm actually against it

global is neat, pack chat shouldn't be a thing though imo

[fresh laurel]

i dunno man pure local makes a species battle pretty hard with friends

[hollow canyon]

I mean you can still read what they're saying

I don't see the issue

[fresh laurel]

how could a non pack member see what you're saying in pack chat...

[hollow canyon]

because... you're saying it... in their literaly vicinity?

If you were to play e.g. paintball with friends against another group of people - why wouldn't they understand what you were saying to your friends?

They absolutely would

same goes for local and pack chat

how could they NOT understand what you're saying is a better question

[fresh laurel]

couldnt same logic go for global?

[hollow canyon]

Yea but global is just fun

[fresh laurel]

same could be said for group

[hollow canyon]

Idc for it for any in game purposes

I just like to watch people's reaction on it or read it while I'm afk

group chat is just a way of hiding your intentions from people around you

if you say something on global - everyone can see it

if you say something in species local chat - well only your species can see it but that's fine

in group chat only very specific people can see what you're saying

so it's the one I'm most against

You can't use global to plan a sneak attack against another guy who's right there in front of you to cannibalise him

[fresh laurel]

to their own i guess

[hollow canyon]

I don't see any advantages of having group chat, not having it actually led to some funny situations while I was playing the game

e.g. I've grouped with some guy on update 3 or 3.5, we were either Utahs or Carnos

and I told him "watch out - two adults on our left, we should get the hell out they might be cannibals"

and we started to run but still heard them shoud behind our backs:

"yo, we aren't though"

[dusky surge]

pack chat sounds awful

just use discord

[hot lintel]

Thanks guys for suggesting Carno buffs and Pachy nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJhY1S4ZTlI

All Carno needs at this point is a headswing that stuns things to make Pachy even more of a facetanking matchup

[spare badger]

Nah just make it replace alt bite cause alt bite looks stupid
Nerf carno pls it is an infection rn

The fact that teno v carno is 50/50 is a crime

[tribal thistle]

50/50 is how its meant to be dude! they were designed to be equal in the ecosystem

[dusky surge]

thats not how that works

[tribal thistle]

you saying its not 50/50 or its not meant to be?

[spare badger]

It's not meant to be

[tribal thistle]

since when!?

[spare badger]

The cheetah animal that controls the interaction should not beat the strong, stand your ground herbivore

That's just bad game design

And it also makes no sense

[tribal thistle]

pretty sure thats what the devs intended for carno and teno lol

[dusky surge]

Teno is a brawler animal with an emphasis on close range combat. It cannot outrun carno, even if it tries, it MUST fight. Carno is a fast animal that can choose freely if it no longer wants to fight and leave

[spare badger]

If it is that's stupid

[tribal thistle]

i mean i agree but i'm not the devs

[dusky surge]

A 50/50 fight is inherently better for the carno and always worse for the teno

[dusky surge]

i doubt it, in the concept art we see a teno facing off against TWO carnos

[spare badger]

This
Teno can't run so it has to win the interaction for the game to be balanced

[spare badger]

Yup

[tribal thistle]

ok well you win

[dusky surge]

Teno must have the fight in its favour for it to be balanced

[spare badger]

Cheetah animal vs stand your ground animal

[dusky surge]

As the carno gets to choose when to engage and disengage freely

For a teno, it's either
A: Swim
B: Fight

And you won't have water near you all the time

[spare badger]

Utah should win Galli v Utah since Galli can outspeed and outmaneuver it

Pachy should win Utah v Pachy
Etc

[supple pagoda]

If they create concept art, they should make the concept art, FACTUAL.

[spare badger]

Not always an option cause of Deino

[dusky surge]

that too

[supple pagoda]

Otherwise, whats the point? Especially leading your players on to believe the dinosaur will be able to do something it obviously cannot.

[tribal thistle]

what about galli concept art? if the art is meant to be factual how come a utah is getting absolutely obliterated?

i agree utah should win buuut

[dusky surge]

All it shows is galli can kick utah lmao

[spare badger]

All it shows is 1 kick
The Utah is still fine

[tribal thistle]

wonder if they get head fractures from kick

[hot lintel]

Carnp was in a balanced spot FOR ONCE in Evrima's runtime and the kiddies got so fucking upset that they had to use their brains to get kills that they started asking for all these stupid buffs and now they got them and they lead to Carnos being a fucking parasite again, great

[tribal thistle]

lol, unfortunately true

[hot lintel]

I legit had no issue with how Carno was before, I still managed to get ambush on people and kill them

[dusky surge]

i liked carno's turn radius but it had to get changed because some people despised it

[spare badger]

Carno was fine, didn't need changes
Pachy want inconsistent
Teno needed a change of power, it was a boring one trick pony

But the went and BUFFED carno for some reason

Why buff charge of all things too

[dusky surge]

Honestly, the charge changes were good imho

No more tail charge and it's an actual attack rather than something that bypass locational modifiers

[hot lintel]

The moment they nerf Carno again the kids are gonna start crying about it being too weak again and ask for buffs again

They don't want Carno to be balanced, they want it to be op because they have carnivore bias

[dusky surge]

I have literally no issues with the charge change

[spare badger]

They think that carno should win the teno interaction

[dusky surge]

Very amusing

[spare badger]

It is

[hot lintel]

I don't have an issue with that, it's the acceleration and turn that fucked it up

[spare badger]

The charge change was fine but idk why they changed it

The acceleration and turn is the problem

[dusky surge]

Frankly they should've nerfed other aspects. I'm actually quite the fan of this more ambush-oriented carno, but it should've gotten something taken as well

[spare badger]

100%

[tribal thistle]

I will admit, i am part of the isles younger audiences/ players but the fact that kids are complaining about the game actually being fun and skill based is actually disgusting in my opinion

[spare badger]

I've seen a few things thrown around, from damage nerfs to stam nerfs

[dusky surge]

Carno's shitty swimspeed is actually nice tho because it really does fuck it over with the new rivers and waterways

I am glad that the swimming weakness is actually more impactful now

[supple pagoda]

The game is turning into a skill based game which is sadly not fun for a lot of the younger audience.

[spare badger]

Young people can be skilled

And if you're 12 or under you really shouldn't be playing the isle

[dusky surge]

Honestly I don't even know if I WANT a carno nerf as much as a buff to herbis

[tribal thistle]

yes but most of them are spoilt and want to win automatically

[spare badger]

Babies didn't have to go through the hard boss fights of games

[tribal thistle]

yet they do

[spare badger]

I grew up with a DS and damn some of those games are still hard even now...

[dusky surge]

Simple shit. I'd give tail utility as a fracture tool or reduce stam cost on teno and maybe give pachy the ability to hold ram for as long as it wants and cancel whenever it wants

Since pachy's ram has the new turn radius downside, holding it wouldn't always be the best plan

[spare badger]

Give slam the ability to fracture body (not leg) since the stam drain is good in long fights
Of course 1 hit shouldn't fracture, more like 3

[dusky surge]

You can't control if it can or can't fracture certain areas I don't think

The only "fracture immunity" is on pachy's head

[spare badger]

Can teno even hit the 'leg' hitbox of carno

[dusky surge]

also if an animal has less "fracture health" on a specific body part they'll get fractured faster

[hot lintel]

People forget that Carno is not a face tanking apex Rex wannabe

[dusky surge]

Yea

[spare badger]

They do

[hot lintel]

I miss the time when Carno was actually a small game hunter in Legacy, its stats were stupid and it wasn't fun to play, but at least it fulfilled its purpose and people weren't asking for stupid bullshit on it

[dusky surge]

Honestly I don't even think carno is in that bad a spot. It's more my issue with the rest of the roster's perceived weakness. I'd rather the roster be stronger than carno be weaker, because carno still isn't NEARLY as strong as it was in update 3

[dusky surge]

art

[hot lintel]

brain damage

[spare badger]

I- I don't get it
Why do people think this

It hurts my head

[hot lintel]

Because carnivore=strong and herbivore=weak, it's easy

[spare badger]

Hurts more cause strong herbis are my jam

[hot lintel]

No you can't have that because the moment a herbivore has more than a 50/50 chance in a fight the whole Islecord get the pitchforks out because how dare it not instantly die when a carnivore looks at it

Which is the shit that lead to the Carno buffs

[spare badger]

Makes me sad

I was fine with the QoL carno standing turn changes
But then I realized it works with drifting

[hot lintel]

Standing turn buff was fine because it helps it when leg fractured against Pachy

[dusky surge]

i mean... i'm going to be honest, y'all talking as if update 4's release wasn't the fucking worst for all carnivores. I'm not going to pretend like carno was out here fucking doing jackshit in the hellhole that was update 4, what with the endless stomach, the billion pachys and tenos who'd melt you for looking at them, the tons of stegos that actively stopped you from doing jackshit, etc

[hot lintel]

But obviously it had to wrok while sprinting because the fastest carnivore in the game should also instantly turn in place

[spare badger]

Yea that's what I was thinking
Carno shouldn't be dead meat with a leg fracture, it still 3 shots pachy. Pachy should utilize it's break and run Strat, not break then kill

[dusky surge]

i don't even LIKE carno that much but to pretend that the prior update was greener pastures is not right

all the carnivores but ptera were essentially fucking jokes

[spare badger]

That's true, I never said it wasnt
But they overcompensated, again.

[hot lintel]

There was still nothing wrong with Carno's power besides that food intake, it just felt weak when everyone was in groups of 20+

Which isn't a Carno things, everyone suffers from mega packing, which is obvious now in the reverse with Carno mega packing everywhere

[spare badger]

Carno itself was fine
Everything around it was a bit too much

[dusky surge]

eh, teno's changes were deserved imho. I think they needed to give some more after they took away the slam's immense power but the old teno was outright boring. 4 attacks and only one matters, epic

[hot lintel]

Besides I still managed to take shit down with Carno in update 4

[dusky surge]

if you use kick, swipe or bite, you're doing it wrong

[spare badger]

Teno needed the balance shift
But now it's kinda, eh

[dusky surge]

just press alt+RMB till the carno stops existing

I would've made slam either cheaper on stam or a fracture move

[keen plover]

What specifically was pachy nerfed in that makes it as bad as people say it is? The tap charge not stunning or the charge radius?

[dusky surge]

(the tap stun change was deserved imho, absolutely ridiculous that every other animal but carno didn't get stunned when they were at the same weight)

carno's special exception was a mystery to me

[spare badger]

Definitely make slam do fracture. At least a little bit. A body or head fracture on a carno should be graleat without making it impossible for carno

Tap charge was deserved

That was a little silly

[keen plover]

Tap charge was annoying because then they would lead into a full charge

And pretty much get free hits off- as well as cancel attacks

Apart from that the charge turn radius? Should that be kept the same? idk how to feel about it rn

Also isn’t carnos running turn the same? Why do people want that nerfed? I’m pretty sure the only turns that have changed are the ones at lower speeds which are fine

[hot lintel]

it was buffed

And the acceleration buff on top of that makes Carnos zoom around like ballerinas

[keen plover]

Weird. The balance patch only says turn in place. Must be an issue then

And high acceleration is what Carno should have imo

[weary idol]

Still think Carno is fine where it's at for the most part. They just need to give something to Teno to balance the scales a little.

[hot lintel]

It makes it 10 times harder for a Pachy to hit it now because it can instantly zoom away, which gets rid of the Pachy's only way of escaping the Carno

Not to mention that on top of that you can't stun the Carno with a tapped headbutt now so you need the distance for a charged ram, which you're not gonna get when the Carno instantly teleports behind you with its acceleration

I think there was literally nothing wrong with the previous acceleration on Carno

It made Carnos need to be more aware of their surroundings, because if they didn't react in time they'd get bonked out of nowhere, now there's no such risk when they can instantly start running at full speed

[keen plover]

I see your point tbf- but pachy without the tap charge still kind of gets rolled by Carno 1 v 1 in the plains- where it needs to eat. Even if we revert Carno- pachy is still not in a position to reliably defend itself solo imo. This pachy change kind of means safety in pair/groups to reliably survive.

Although yes- you get more hits off on them if you do revert Carno

I feel like Carno itself is just pachys bane I don’t know how you’d do it

Also is it weird to only ever get body fractures every time I fight a Carno? since they keep on coming lmao

[hot lintel]

I think it's stupid that they're forcing Pachy to stay in plains for its food where the one dinosaur it can't deal with constantly roams

I think they should replace agave on its diet with something like mango or potato

But even then it shouldn't instantly get squashed when a Carno spots it in the fields

[keen plover]

Exactly. I get that the roster is small but damn pachy needs to constantly deal with Carno

[hot lintel]

I think the way to deal with it is just make the leg fracture a guarantee after about 3 headbutts, instead of being rng whether you hit the leg and get the 1 useful fracture or you die

[keen plover]

Like even if you play the best of your capabilities- you’re still outclassed every time you step out into the plains since you will get hit.

And sure you may eventually kill the Carno or make it run off- but other predators are around

[hot lintel]

Also the fact that Pachy is forced to be in a group to survive is kinda garbage since even Utah can survive solo, no dinosaur should be restricted to only being viable in groups

[keen plover]

Imo the only way to do that reliably is make pachy a forest/ mountainous creature or something like that

[hot lintel]

no

[dusky surge]

there's no way to guarantee that but actually hit the leg

[keen plover]

Since carnos can group up to 3- you won’t be surviving solo

[hot lintel]

Like yeah, I agree it should have its diet away from plains but no dinosaur should be restricted to one biome to survive

[dusky surge]

also no wtf i dont understand this thing people have about pachy and mountains

[hot lintel]

Even then it won't leg fracture most of the time

A hit to the leg will not leg fracture

[keen plover]

You won’t make pachy viable solo. Just won’t happen if it lives in the plains It’s too slow

[hot lintel]

You can tell me "hit the leg" all you want, that's just not how it works

[dusky surge]

depends on the ram type

running charged ram > charged ram > running tap ram > tap ram

[hot lintel]

Depends on server ping and fps, which might be good on your qa test servers but that doesn't transfer over to us, stop telling us to hit the legs, WE'RE LITERALLY FUCKING DOING THAT AND NOT GETTING THE LEG FRACTURE

[dusky surge]

my QA servers consist of a single EU server which I connect to from Australia lmao. Don't talk to me about ping

[lusty berry]

Carnos running turn is the same as before. They added some when they charge not run. Meaning they have a lil more wiggle room.

Guaranteed after three hits is kind of a no, no. It doesn't help pachy and relies on hitting the leg anyways.

[keen plover]

Ok. Just no other way to make it work solo. You need a group for the plains or another pachy 👍Unless you’re hiding in a bush every time you see a Carno- which at that point, you’re pretty much doing forest gameplay

[lusty berry]

Idk about mountains, semi plains and forest would be better

[hot lintel]

Then just make it work solo?

[dusky surge]

also it's not as simple as "hitting the legs", you have to hit the legs with the right attacks

if you hit it with a tap ram, you do jackshit

you can hit the legs and not do the fracture

[keen plover]

How though. Others will be grouped like you always see. How can you play pachy solo in the open? There is no way

[lusty berry]

No, don't just make it work solo .. that's how you end up with an unintentional apex.. there's a point to realize that you are arguing for a change that is unhealthy

[keen plover]

I’m being realistic here. Pachy is 500kg- significantly smaller than Carno and slower. There is no way for it to be viable solo- especially if Carno groups exist

[lusty berry]

^ this

[keen plover]

Unless you hide every time you see a Carno approaching

[lusty berry]

Any dino solo is a target, it's not only a pachy problem. That's how solo works..

[keen plover]

At the very least if it stays in the open, it dies to a Carno group

[dusky surge]

I think having pachy be a jungle animal will be more detrimental to the animal than beneficial

[keen plover]

I get that so you need a group with you

[lusty berry]

I say semi, like edge of the plains and able to duck into the jungle in case of carno

This way it can exist in the plains but not the dead center

[hot lintel]

Obviously if multiple Carnos find it it should probably die in the plains but they need to make it so a single Carno doesn't put the fear of god in you and makes you never wanna step foot in plains

A Pachy needs to be able to deal with a single Carno, but rn the Carno starts running so fast and dodges you so easily and the frames are so bad on top of that, you have no chance

[graceful wolf]

Pachy will ha tree grazing in the future too

[hot lintel]

A Carno on low frames can just brawl its way out of the fight but a Pachy on low frames will miss every headbutt and die

[dusky surge]

???

[hot lintel]

useless fact monday lessgoooo

[lusty berry]

The frames dying is something to do with rendering stuff but that's a different issue that ALL Dino's suffer in..

[dusky surge]

i dont even think that's a fact idk where that came from

[graceful wolf]

I just meant that it prob will be adept to live on the edge of the woods

[dusky surge]

okay but tree grazing?

what fucking shrub is a pachy going to graze from

[lusty berry]

Chances are you can't catch a carno because of frames? He likely can't see where he's running because of frames.

I don't know where the tree grazing came from

[keen plover]

It had tree grazing animations a hot minute ago but not really relevant seeing as it can graze on grass

[hot lintel]

Not everyone suffers from it equally. A Carno can just quit the fight if the frames are too bad and run away or simply face tank the Pachy even which is fucking stupid, a Pacjy on low frames is dead, can't hit the Carno and can;t run away

[graceful wolf]

Mincraft tree?

[dusky surge]

isnt that just the animation it plays for eating high up foods?

like you play that animation as a baby pachy eating agave

i don't think that's a graze, just an eating anim for high foods

[keen plover]

Yeah I can agree here. Losing out to a solo Carno with no chance of escape is unfair. I think leg fracture needs to be more reliable since every time I hit it- it doesn’t actually register as it

[hot lintel]

Leg fractures are unicorns

[graceful wolf]

Maybe but it would make it more interesting

[dusky surge]

i don't even see how

[lusty berry]

Yea I don't think you can reliably use that as an argument... That works as much against you since they could just as easily run into a river into a Deino because they can't see...

[keen plover]

?

I’m confused

[lusty berry]

Talking to Karen Boy

[keen plover]

Ah ok

[hot lintel]

How tf are low frames gonna hide a river from you?

[lusty berry]

You honestly never see when frames die bad enough you suddenly freeze and end up a mile away...

[hot lintel]

A Carno absolutely has it easier on low frames, I play on low frames and have no issues playing Carno since my speed lets me be safe even on 8 frames, no other dinosaur has that

[hot lintel]

Doesn't change the fact that in the middle of a field a Carno is way safer even on low frames

[lusty berry]

If you were 8 frames running you'd see something every 3 seconds. So I highly doubt that .

That aside giving a leg break after a few shots guaranteed still doesn't do anything healthy for the game.

If anything I feel that all Pachy players would then go only for the break and then head bash them to solo kill which ruins the point of the nerds.. which was to bring them a lil more in line.

[keen plover]

I don’t like guaranteed stuff- I like actually hitting the body parts- however for some odd reason- leggy Carno never gets leg fractured. My experience anyway.

Well I say odd reason but it’s likely ping- however people also say it’s an issue so idk

[lusty berry]

That's incredibly unlucky, then again.. same thing when I played Rex in legacy so.. I would believe it's more unlucky

Depends on the % of the bone break per hit

[keen plover]

I personally don’t know what evrima percentage or values are but legacy was stupid- seeing as technically you could never leg break someone as a Rex

[dusky surge]

there's no percentage

it's not up to chance

[keen plover]

Thought so. A full charge should theoretically leg break something if it hits it right. A Carno that is

[lusty berry]

Gotcha so people literally just suck at aiming

[keen plover]

guess I do

[lusty berry]

And I say that in that it's just hard to hit a moving target

[dusky surge]

a max speed tap ram or a max speed charged ram should do the trick

[lusty berry]

Gotcha

[dusky surge]

Actually, not too sure about the tap

[lusty berry]

It should but you are unsure. I kinda wanna test this some time

Anyways I still say Pachy food should be a lil closer to the like.. jungles areas but still on the plains

This way they don't just hang out alone in the center of the plains, but not like in or on the border just closer

[keen plover]

Hmmm I personally don’t see an issue with that- but maybe others will idk

I’d say it would be better that way since- like you stated- you can actively run away into the forest if need be, but also get all your diets and stay your ground if a solo Carno comes by.

[lusty berry]

Yep, it's the easiest way to keep them all over and viable without reverting nerfs. To be fair balance wise? The game is the most it has been for a while and that is something that can be maintained through alternative methods at this point since it's still super early to conclusively say Pachy and Teno need more. Hell people act like Carno got major damage buffs and like.. the only "damage" buff sounds more like a bug fix... and I am pretty sure Pachy got it too.. so yea

[dusky surge]

@alpine plover holy shit the timing of that post after yours is hysterical

[calm ibex]

both posts are meh as the most important factor to carno abundance is AI and hunger changes, not stat changes

[alpine plover]

People be like

Tbf though Carno is essentially the same just a better charge

[alpine plover]

And the fact that Carno is the only big land carnivore as Utah is merely a rat

Cerato would definitely help spread out the mid tier carnivore players

[alpine plover]

Yeah, also grazing is specifically feeding from low vegetation (grass, rushes, sedges and other herbaceous plants like clovers and dandelions

technical nitpick I know, but it is useful to distinguish grazing and browsing (feeding from taller, usually woody vegetation)

[hollow canyon]

Idk, I sometimes feel like you guys are playing a different game...

just logged in, the first thing I see:

2 stegos

the next thing I see

I've seen one small Carno that I murdered without mercy

[dusky surge]

are you talking about herbi v carni population?

[hollow canyon]

yea

Tenonto is the second most common animal I see

[dusky surge]

because i feel the whole "CARNOS ARE EVERYWHERE" perspective comes specifically from the fact that they are very frequent around centre rn. But frankly I've seen very little of them outside of that. There's a wandering carno in more obscure areas, sure, but they tend to only "megapack" in centre

[hollow canyon]

right after Stego

I haven't seen that many of them around the centre either tbh

[dusky surge]

once you leave those centre plains, it's really not that many

[hollow canyon]

assuming you're calling the sounthern plains "the centre"

I've seen 1 adult Carno there in the last 3 days

that's not counting me when I was playing Carno

[dusky surge]

southern and centre plains both are where they tend to hang

[hollow canyon]

a bunch of juvies

but only 1 adult

idk it might be some difference between the servers we play on or something

I'm on EU2 atm

gonna make the trek for the radishes with the little guys

and I hear Stegos... everywhere

cancel that - I've seen 4 Carnos other than myself but those other 3 were on the outskirts of the map actually

[alpine plover]

Center is really just full of Carnos, and Deinos

I haven’t actually seen that many tenos though or pachys

[hollow canyon]

I see them

all the goddamn time

Tenontos that is, Pachys were not so common

I've seen 3 of them yesterday and heard a couple more though

as I said these two pictures I took literally within 5 minutes of logging onto EU2

I've seen 2 crocs on top of that since then

another small Tenonto now

[wise sparrow]

Its definitely a server thing. I was playing ptera and I saw like 4 consecutive packs of like 5-6 carnos

They just mowed down any herbi in their way and blitzed through sn entire utah pack

[hollow canyon]

another Tenonto on its way to us

[spare badger]

Lucky
I found 0 Tenos when I played, just 7 carnos and 4 deinos before I died

[hollow canyon]

It's not me being "lucky"

I see them all the goddamn time

[spare badger]

Really?

[hollow canyon]

every time I play and no matter what I play

[spare badger]

I never find other tenos
Where did you find them?

[hollow canyon]

Yea, the first animals I've seen after downloading the patch was a Tenonto pair running around and killing stuff around that new river

I'm close to swamp atm

[spare badger]

I see

[hollow canyon]

by the river that goes northward, we're about to go for radishes

I've seen them around the southern part of the map very often though

Carnos - I found two in this area, one around the new river and the last one somewhere on the outskirts of the map

[spare badger]

As soon as I step foot put of swamp to find radish there are carnos everywhere

[alpine plover]

a few days ago I did join up a big carno pack, though it was mostly just juveniles

there were like 2-3 adults and 5 juvies, me included

[hollow canyon]

I'd died to a pair of subadults-adults on my first Tenonto but it seemed to me that I was just really unlucky as they caught me when I was crossing a river and I just swam too slowly but after that I haven't had any issues with them

[alpine plover]

weren't really going on a KOSing spree, just casually killed and ate AI

[hollow canyon]

another Stego btw

and I hear more up the river

*2 stegos

[alpine plover]

I mean in all fairness player numbers of a certain species are basically a consequence of how much food is available

[hollow canyon]

and a Pachy

[alpine plover]

The fact that people can respawn kinda further hampers this because this means there is potential extra food for a respawned juvie carnivore (especially those that can cannibalise like deinos or carnos).

[hollow canyon]

oh, I hear a Utah, seemingly a small one but that's the fourth carnivore I've seen today

[wise sparrow]

I wish I had the same experience. I've only seen carno and deinos. With the occasional teno and pachy that gets ripped apart by mega packs

[hollow canyon]

must be a server thing I guess

[wise sparrow]

It doesn't help that teno's kick barely functions and ballerina carno fucks over pach of there are more than 1 carno

[hollow canyon]

I haven't fought many things as Tenonto yet(which is why I'm playing it now) but when I used kick it seemed to work alright?

oh two other adult Tenontos in the distance

two if not more

[wise sparrow]

Kick hitbox is unpredictable and you need to hit the carno with its ankles or sometimes knees

[alpine plover]

but like I think as a general rule of thumb there should be more herbivores than carnivores, proportionally speaking

[hollow canyon]

not happening because herbivores are boring like hell to play

[alpine plover]

AI kinda doesnt help this as they basically allow carnivores to almost entirely subsist off of them, and so you end up with more carnivore players than herbivore players

[hollow canyon]

I'm dying of boredom as we speak

walk there, eat this, then back again eat that

goddamn walking simulator

[alpine plover]

Yes, but carnivore overpopulation is one of the single biggest issues with the game though from what I can tell

[hollow canyon]

I've never had a problem with that in the legacy

it's mainly a problem here because of the diets

[alpine plover]

I mean yeah herbivore gameplay utterly fucking sucks, but then thats a consequence of shit game design

[hollow canyon]

in normal circumstances I'd just eat other carnivores

[alpine plover]

also im not sure why some carnivores are even able to subsist off of other carnivores

this isn't to say it is impossible (some smaller carnivorous animals have specialised for eating even smaller carnivores, and larger carnivores can still opportunistically predate), but they aren't a desirable food source in an IRL standpoint.

[hollow canyon]

from what we know about dinosaurs - theropods for the most part didn't seem to mind eating other carnivores or even members of the same species

[alpine plover]

As I said, it isn't always desirable

The cleveland-lloyd site was in a drought setting where all animals were being drawn to a shrinking, ever more (literally) shit-filled watering hole.

[hollow canyon]

it's not just about Allo, we have evidence of cannibalism in T.rex too

besides - that's the least inaccurate thing about the game

[alpine plover]

I mean yeah

[spare badger]

Or is it imperator or Regina?

[hollow canyon]

pls

[spare badger]

Dumb paper

[hollow canyon]

gods have mercy upon my soul... we've barely moved

[spare badger]

1 different tooth = 3 species

[hollow canyon]

damn I'm hearing Dryos now

what in the world is happening?

[alpine plover]

While carnivores predating other carnivores isnt actually that rare, its often more common to have carnivores predating on herbivores as there tends to often be more energy obtained from killing herbivores. It is less risky as if you are preying on another carnivore there is a risk of getting injured, not to mention herbivore meat has overall more energy than carnivore meat. Literally.

[hollow canyon]

who even plays this animal?

[alpine plover]

10 percent rule. With each trophic level, only around 10 percent of the energy is passed up from the initial plant matter (which for context can get up to 90 percent of the sun's energy via photosynthesis).

[spare badger]

Did they ban carno or something?

[hollow canyon]

Another 2 Tenontos

[alpine plover]

If a carnivore eats another carnivore, it will receive less nutrition than if it would eat a herbivore as the carnivore already subsists on the mere 10 percent that a herbivore provides. So this means a carnivore will only get a tenth of the energy from eating from a carnivore carcass than if it were to eat from a herbivore carcass.

[hollow canyon]

Nah, we just had one Carno attack our juvies@spare badger

he barely escaped

If I didn't mess it up he would've died

[hollow canyon]

Two other Tenontos showed up and he decided not to take his chances

admittedly he was so battered that it's a miracle he survived

or well... the miracle was me messing up my attacks

[spare badger]

What server are you on? It sounds like paradise

[hollow canyon]

eu2

2 Utahs now

[wise sparrow]

I'd love to go there but the ping is

[hollow canyon]

oof it crashed

well, I'm done

this is kind of why I don't herd, it just takes forever to move from one spot to another

and herbi gameplay is just... damn that was boring

[spare badger]

Yea
Especially when you gotta walk this far for radishes

[hollow canyon]

well we've made half of the way I guess

over... 70 minutes

[spare badger]

Damn

[hollow canyon]

I'm out

that's just not for me

[spare badger]

Herbi gameplay kinda bad rn

[hollow canyon]

only one person died during that whole time and it was because dude got stuck on a rock and fell into Deino-infested water so

[ripe furnace]

People would still play carni just as much

[hollow canyon]

Also - the Carno we fought there was just going for the juvies but... I don't think he landed any hits? They seemed to get out of his way just fine

Idk maybe the people on EU have a greater affinity towards herbivores as a faction or something

I will have to hop on NA to check how things are going there but... damn I don't want to grow anything on that ping

I might just go Dryo

[hollow canyon]

I'm on NA1 - 3 Carnos trying their luck with a pair of Stegos, I've heard 2 Tenontos before and bumped into a Deino

wait, those are 4 Stegos

the lag is disgusting though

dude hit me from a mile away like a second after I was no longer where he was biting

Yea - more Carnos on NA for sure

there still was a pretty big group of Stegos though

just from what I've seen over those couple of minutes

[alpine plover]

NA1 is always laggy

It’s constantly full

[runic sail]

So much good balance feed back and yea this game has become a toxic carno paradise but I guarantee the devs won’t do another balance update for a while its like they enjoy f##king with us and making people not enjoy there game.

[spare badger]

Some people don't understand that the slower creature needs the advantage in a confrontation in order for the game to be balanced.

Troodon is small and agile so can escape

Agility factors in too

Tenonto is not agile or small

By teno bite

Troodon is a... weird animal

For the game balance

[wise sparrow]

Troodon can get bit to death by teno

[runic sail]

This game really hasn’t been fun since Carno and stego first came out there was good balance back then when everything was working right. A good pack of Utahs could kill a stego and Carno but just as easy a good Carno and stego could drop a pack of Utah’s now it’s just you be op now you be op now you get a nerf and you get a buff! They’ve lost it…

[spare badger]

Teno v carno is not
The devs make it quite clear what the dynamic is

[wise sparrow]

Troodon is unviable. Straight up. No other playable needs half the server to kill someone

[wise sparrow]

And then in game we have a single carno face tanking teno and then complaining in the discord they almost died

[spare badger]

Makes me sad

[alpine plover]

Troodon

Bad animal

[spare badger]

We know it gets 2 shot by teno bite and it will have stam draining venom and mimicry

Mimicry sounds cool

Stego can bite
And also tank it until it can swing again

Troodon will probably be a juvie killer

[wise sparrow]

Then it gets dogged on by mono who will likely share that niche

Walks into 3 inch deep water

Troodon needs all sorts of busted shit to be sorta viable

[spare badger]

Bloodhound scavenger mono

[fresh laurel]

Troodon wont even be a thing when trample comes lmao

At that point losing stam is nothing when you could step on troodon

[ripe furnace]

Honestly maybe

How would anyone play troodon solo

Just hunt hypsi?

[fresh laurel]

Hypsi is bigger than troodon

[hollow canyon]

What? Carno when it first came out was an absolute monster incomparably stronger than now. Utahs were dropping Stegos in less than a minute.

If you're asking for things to be more like in update 2, you're literally asking for a massive Carno buff.

and a massive Utah buff

[ripe furnace]

You’re lying to me

[fresh laurel]

Pretty sure its on concept art

Or something

[ripe furnace]

Nah I’ve seen it in game on a video it’s like juvi pachy size

[stark knoll]

We don't know how big it'll be until it's properly implemented in game

[half girder]

literallt 20 utahs and a carno surrounding me rn

[stark knoll]

Though based on the art and the initial size in game it's definitely larger than a hypsi

[half girder]

buff herbies pls

[ripe furnace]

No

Don’t nerf or buff anything now it’s perfect

[half girder]

LMAOOOO

ur takes are so bad\

[alpine plover]

Teno tailslam

[ripe furnace]

Is fine

[fresh laurel]

Eh i think they are fine

[half girder]

omllll

[fresh laurel]

Teno just needs kick range buff

[half girder]

surely theyre fine, moire carnos and utahs surelyy

[ripe furnace]

Just because you can’t kill carno with one move doesn’t mean it ruined the animal

[fresh laurel]

And make herbi growth less hell

[half girder]

bro i stg this community man

[alpine plover]

It’s weird seeing the kick being stronger than the tailslam though

[ripe furnace]

More carnos and Utah’s because of the new map and buffs

[half girder]

herbies are asssss rn

[ripe furnace]

That’s a lie you’re just bad

[half girder]

lmaooo

[ripe furnace]

Skill issue

[fresh laurel]

Teno slaming all of its tail weight on you vs it kicking full force with its legs that are made to run

[half girder]

blunt ur takes are as dogshit as ur feedback

keep it a buck

[alpine plover]

diet placements are actually pretty terrible for them atm, def needs some tuning

[ripe furnace]

All your opinions are terrible

[half girder]

says u

[fresh laurel]

Diets suck for any faction

Carnivores and herbivores

[half girder]

all ur feedback has an x lmao

[ripe furnace]

Eco chamber herbi fans spam regardless 👴🏿

[alpine plover]

they want you to go all the way from southeast to the coast as a pachy which sucks, unless you’re lucky enough to get the coconut tree spawn northeast or something

[fresh laurel]

I wonder

[ripe furnace]

Because people hate carno

[half girder]

carno is insane rn

[ripe furnace]

Carno is fine it just needs comp

[fresh laurel]

How does utah pounce break almost every update now

[alpine plover]

I don’t blame them, carnopocalypse sucks

[half girder]

the turn speed wasnt needed

[ripe furnace]

Update 4 carno was unusable anyway

[half girder]

surely

[fresh laurel]

My utah died to 5 carnos...

[ripe furnace]

All they did is tweak the turn speed of the charge

And increase charge dmg

[alpine plover]

Evrima in a nutshell

[fresh laurel]

It wasnt?

[half girder]

teno not having enough stam to fight off 2 carnos hmmm

[ripe furnace]

The only problem is that here’s like a million of them

[half girder]

pachy dogshit stam pool hmm

[fresh laurel]

Update 4 carno if it landed ram would win against most things

[ripe furnace]

Why would a teno ever win against 2 carnos

[half girder]

not win defend itself

[ripe furnace]

It can if they’re not bad

[fresh laurel]

Concept shows it fighting back pretty well

[half girder]

hurt if the carno play dumb

[alpine plover]

Teno definitely needs more tailslams since the damage is far weaker now

[ripe furnace]

It’s still gonna die

[half girder]

i literally face tanked a teno as a sub carno lmaooo

[ripe furnace]

If anything I say make it’s claw attack more deadly

[half girder]

fucking carni mains mang

[fresh laurel]

Its 180? Cus wavepool says its still 300 range or something

[ripe furnace]

It was a sub 🥸

[half girder]

no it wasnt ahaha

[ripe furnace]

U need surgery for better opinions

Opinion surgery

[alpine plover]

I tested it earlier, pretty sure it’s 180 now, took 10 slams to the body so I guess it is 180 yeah

[half girder]

that makes as much sense as ur feedback

[alpine plover]

it’s definitely not in the 300’s

[half girder]

[ripe furnace]

Average teno fan

[alpine plover]

Chad

[half girder]

average balance andy*

[ripe furnace]

The moment teno doesn’t body every playable y’all get mad

[fresh laurel]

Test head since body can hit legs at times

[cold sedge]

Someone tested it the other day and it took 7 tail slams to the head which would put it between 180-190 damage. I actually thought you were the person that tested it with the dude but I guess you weren’t

[fresh laurel]

Oh no the dude tested it alone but invited me to test utah altbite dmg

[cold sedge]

Oh okay okay. I knew you were involved somehow

[fresh laurel]

We got like 67n or 71n

[alpine plover]

feel like Utah needs a slight damage buff

[fresh laurel]

Im still up for utah having 75n bite

[alpine plover]

around there yeah

[fresh laurel]

But rn i could prob see a agility revert to be like update 2 or 3...

[alpine plover]

also I heard pounce was broken again, same thing as early update 4 or?

[fresh laurel]

Utah at one point had a 15n bite...

[fresh laurel]

Lets just say its rng

[alpine plover]

oh no

[fresh laurel]

Sometimes it phases you around and you stop pouncing and get massive endlag

Mostly happens when i pounce pachy

Everything else i pounced fine

[alpine plover]

pounce just manages to break itself every update now at this point

don’t think there was any problems with it during 2-3? Haven’t experienced any

[fresh laurel]

2 to 3 were fine but 1 no and 4 yes (not mechanic test)

4.5 is now i think

[trim ginkgo]

Update 3 Utah was the best Utah there was

Even though desync was frustrating with it at least it could work and actually be worth it.

[wise sparrow]

Teno is shit rn because...

1. Herbivores diets are hell to get and stupidly harder than carnivore diets

2. Teno's hit box is still fucked and the tail slam takes as much stam as it used to when it hit harder

3. Carno can turn so well now it can literally brawl any herbivore without punishment because it can just run away when things somehow go south

4. Now, on average, carno grows twice as fast as teno due to carnivore diets being a free ride to adult

5. And because of the decreased food costs, these carnos can grow quickly and form sustainable mega packs that snuff out any herbivore herd

[ripe furnace]

Carno being good isn’t a reason that teno sucks. And I’m talking about it’s stats not the diet.

Tenos a good animal there’s just 10 million carnos

No nerfs or buffs necessary

[wise sparrow]

Carno being good and the shitty diets are the sole reason of that

[ripe furnace]

That’s an unrelated hindrance though

Apart from diet

[wise sparrow]

If carno didn't spin like a ballerina, need as much food as a fucking ptera, have the stats the brawl our shit teno, and get a free ride to adult, teno, and all the other animals that carno shits on, would be actually viable

Rn it's just "carno, the game." Because it's the only viable animal

Deino and ptera as well but they dont really contribute much

If we keep current carno then literally no small/pseudo mid teir will ever exist. It will get shit on by our jack of all trades carno

[hollow canyon]

Carno's alright, herbivores need a buff. The devs need to stop buffing one animal and nerfing the others. It keeps on throwing the balance off. We need to have balance patches more often. Try to decrease the stamina cost of Tenonto's tailslam and Pachy's ram for starters and buff up Pachy's turn rate while ramming.

If that doesn't do the trick get them some more buffs, e.g. increase Pachy's blunt damage and Tenonto's overall damage output or stamina pool.

Also fix the herbivore's juvie diets because they are way too demanding

It takes 20-30 minutes for Tenonto to reach a perfect diet and start really growing.

I haven't had any issues surviving as a Tenonto so far but I haven't ran into more than one Carno at once I haven't played Pachy so far.

and honestly I don't feel like trying considering how far herbivores have to travel at the start of their growth

[hollow canyon]

1. is a big issue, the devs have moved those nutrients way too far for juveniles to be getting them reliably. It's doable but requires way too much effort compared to carnivores and worse yet, it's just boring

2. is just... idk something that keeps happening, the devs need to get that stamina cost down, Idk what's so hard about this.

3. isn't true, Tenonto grows about as fast(which isn't really fair either, it's intended to grow faster)

[wintry mountain]

For the record, the Tail slam damage reduction isn't anywhere near as much as the numbers i've seen spouted

As two body hits still kill a utah

[keen plover]

Could that be different for headshots

[wintry mountain]

wdym?

[keen plover]

Like 2 tail slams on the head or 1 headshot + 1 body shot kills a utah?

[wintry mountain]

2 body shots

[keen plover]

Ah so at minimum 225n per hit then

[wintry mountain]

iirc the same is for pachy

[hollow canyon]

more

225 would probably not kill a Utah with 2 hits

[keen plover]

In quick succession? Even if they do heal over?

[wintry mountain]

It only needs to regen 1 health to not be one shot

[hollow canyon]

unless you can pull those off fast enough before it regenerates a single hp point

[keen plover]

Unless you instantly heal 1 hp

[wintry mountain]

So the damage would have to be over 225

[hollow canyon]

yea, I think it's quite safe to assume it's higher than that

besides I'm quite certain that it's higher than that

[wintry mountain]

can easily just test it on pachy

[hollow canyon]

the previously nerfed damage was at 250N

during the mechanic test

[wintry mountain]

On terms of diets, Hard agree

Carnivore diets are in a horrible state, ticket to a free growth

likewise herbivores have to spend a substantial time gathering nutrients before actually starting to grow which generally increases their growth in proportion to carnivores by a good 15-30 minutes

who can just find one corpse, kill a small ai, etc, and afk

[keen plover]

I saw an idea previously where for carno- when it went to 25% it required 1-2 of its preferred foods, and 3 above 50%. Something like that?

But issue is carno has ai in its adult diets so would that be the ones for the smaller stages...

[hollow canyon]

The issue is that a juvie Carno isn't killing a player unless it's lucky enough to run into a juvenile herbivore, getting a perfect diet when it requires you to kill players before you reach subadult is a bit... questionable I'd say

Juvie herbivore diets are imo more of an issue

you just can't expect a fresh spawn to make a trek across the whole goddamn map

what's even worse is that there's but one spot in which those plants grow

meaning that it's really obvious what way people are going to be taking

the game is just way too... "focused" on what people ought to be doing which is really bad for herbivores

[keen plover]

Yeah kind of hard to work out a good fix for carni diets

[hollow canyon]

We will probably have to wait for gore before those get a fix

I'm not even entirely sure how gore is supposed to fix it but

this system with nutrients really wasn't created with carnivores in mind

[wise sparrow]

The diets weren't really created with anything in mind it seems

[hollow canyon]

Yea I'm not even going to touch that subject because me malding over how this mechanic was implemented into the game for the bazillionth time won't get us anywhere

[winter iris]

I mainly agree except that I think buffing pachy again, too much, would be an error. I think people are biased by the pre-update pachy that was fun to play but honestly non-sense OP considering its size, maybe now some adjustments here and there but I wouldn't buff pachy tbh. It makes perfect sense that 70-80% of the times it dies to a carno (unless there's a small pack of pachys and they ram and run away), and this mainly happens because in many cases pachy players still think that it is pre-update and they can face tank pretty much everything. On the teno, I agree on a bit less stam cosumption with tail slam and I also think the diet should be a bit easier in the juvi stages

[hollow canyon]

I agree that Pachy was too strong before the update, I do however think that the nerf to the turn rate was uncalled for.

I'd either revert that or at least partially revert that and see how the animal handles from there.

As for diets I've outlined my idea before but I will do it again - the two nutrients that are most distant from one another one the diets of animals so e.g. Mountain ash and Radish roots for Tenonto and... Agave and Coconuts(coconuts specifically really) for Pachy, should have alternatives that are closer by to these plants

so for example let Tenonto substitute Radish with... Agave for that matter during the first 50% of its growth

or substitute Mountain Ashe with some plant that would be located closer to Radish(although perhaps not exactly in the same area)

this would make it so that small herbivores have to move a little bit during their early growth stages but don't have to outright travel across the whole map as that is just absurd

Admittedly I can think of at least one way of abusing this but I still think it's vastly better than what we have now

I'd do all the changes I've outlined above and see where that gets us

then think about potentially buffing these animals further if they are still struggling

[cold sedge]

I was thinking about something similar to this when I was wandering around, but with the added caveat that you don’t get as many nutrients from the non preferred plants. That way you aren’t able to stack your nutrients as effectively, but can at least get to perfect diet without running all the way across the map right away as a juvie.

[hollow canyon]

That is fair enough, probably a good idea, I'd add that to my suggestion if you don't mind

[cold sedge]

Yeah do it up

[dusky surge]

never said that. idk where the hell you got that

[hollow canyon]

I think you gave some range at one point, or some other QA member did

[dusky surge]

i gave a range, true

[hollow canyon]

idk why Sonic assumed it was 300

[dusky surge]

but it was 200-300, leaning more to the middle area

not at all a high 300

[hollow canyon]

It used to be 250N back during the MT

[dusky surge]

could be 250N again?

because it two-taps utah

[hollow canyon]

Could be

I think 250 is a bit too low for it ngl

definitely too low at that stam cost

but I'd personally try to decrease the stamina cost first, idk why it hasn't been decreased in the first place

[ocean wagon]

What if they added a new plant type in the forest that all juvi herbivores could gain atleast 2 of their nutrients from? So that juveniles could use the safety of the dense forest to better cover themselves instead of having to run across the map in giant open fields with mega packs of carnos and Utahs could easily pick them apart. Think of it like baby food almost, and once they hit sub they are able to find their “adult food”

[dusky surge]

i'd either give it fracture or give it less stam cost

[hollow canyon]

I'd go with the stam cost, maybe add fracture later if the animal remains bad

[dusky surge]

either works for the designated role of the tail slam, which is now a poking tool that stuns and allows for follow ups from safe distances

the tail slam still has utility, don't get me wrong, just the utility doesn't fit the cost

also every bit of stam counts on an animal like teno

[hollow canyon]

True, do try to get the stamina cost decreased imo and maybe add those fractures, it could make it more interesting and better in the Carno match up

without turning it back into that stun-into-headshots one trick animal that it used to be

[dusky surge]

yea

[spare badger]

Definitely agree
Either buff the slam in some way to warrant the stam use (fractures)
Or reduce the stam cost
I think I prefer fractures since getting a body fracture would be very helpful

[spare badger]

Thank you Sublime
You said what needed to be

@fallow blaze why did you put this in balance instead of general?

[fallow blaze]

its a general topic. ok thx. don't know

[spare badger]

Yea probably move it ig

[ripe furnace]

@cyan arch with your suggestion you might aswell nerf Utah’s agility, speed and pounce if you’re looking for realism

[cyan arch]

As the Utah, whas an agile Hunter his agility looks kinda realistic, Speedwhise the most assumptions went to arround 50km/h topspeed so i guess its fine as well or could also get buffed. And pounce...well...if ur looking for realism u would realize that a raptor would never scratch on the thick skin. They would go for the underbelly and the throat to cut open. With a claw as the Utah had, one cut would most likely be enough to make his preys Veins blood out in less then 2 minutes, or spill out its guts. Pounce is the weakest Special ability anyway, and its way to weak if u think abt what an Animal with sutch an big claw, and that point of intelligence could and would do to his prey

One of the biggest Problems in balancing the Utah is, the point of his intelligence dosnt find any way into the game as other animals had Speed(like Carno), Spikes like Stego, Venom like some upcoming animals. Pounce is shown way to weak, compared to how deadly it rly whas.

[ripe furnace]

Utah was far from agile lol

This is a big recon tho

[glad ginkgo]

Why did I get so many x's on my balance suggestion I guess yall don't like the idea of getting more carnivores to the roster 🤷‍♂️

[ripe furnace]

No it’s just teno users

[ripe furnace]

Where was yours

[glad ginkgo]

Last night 11pm EST

Sorry I don't know how to share the comments

[sinful cove]

the problem isnt getting more carnis on the roster, that would be nice. the problem is that wouldnt fix the problem of 90% of a server being one faction

fixing the faction disparity > just adding more variety to the overpopulated faction. it affects both sides

we're just gonna have carnos and ceratos eating eachother vs carnos and carnos eating eachother and steamrolling everything else either way

[cyan arch]

So u know better from the picture of a utah raptor who weighs probably 800-1000kg, then scientistic suggestions ?? Thats pretty impressive, not to say that the Utah ingame weighs arround 60% of that guy ur showing here

[slim dragon]

Scientific suggestions who say that Utahraptor went 50 km/h are probably outdated
From what I know most recent studies put it at around 30 km/h

[ripe furnace]

The problem is mega packs not carnis

[sinful cove]

megapacks of carnis

[ripe furnace]

Mega packs in general

They won’t form if the have opposition

Carno has no opposition

[sinful cove]

if you just throw in cerato or bary to solve the carno problem then instead of megapacks of carnos eating everything, we'll have megapacks of carnos and x carnivore eating eachother

[ripe furnace]

Bary won’t change the ecosystem and with cerato carno player base will decrease

[wise sparrow]

It would just cause people to form mega packs of carno AND cera/bary

[ripe furnace]

Mega packs of bary will never exist

[sinful cove]

yep it would just create more carni megapack vs carni megapack

[ripe furnace]

And the active fighting will make their numbers unable to create a mega pack

[sinful cove]

thats not what happens now, they are constantly steamrolling eachother yet their population is massive

[ripe furnace]

Just because theres many carnivores doesn’t mean they’ll start mega packs

There’s only 2 playable dinosaurs on carnivore side

[wise sparrow]

Instead of adding ANOTHER carnivore to screw over all the playables, actually address that carno is a tad overtuned, herbivores are all underpowered, and diets are fucked

[sinful cove]

yes it does. happens every time theres a ton of a playable

[ripe furnace]

There’s only 2

Utah and carno

And I doubt cera destroys anything

[sinful cove]

and if it isnt just megapacks its mix packs too. also carn and cerato are both cannibalistic playables so itll be more of the same

[ripe furnace]

Other than pachy and Utah maybe

[wise sparrow]

And deino and ptera. Deino which forms mega packs often

[ripe furnace]

Those aren’t dinosaurs though

[sinful cove]

what does that have to do with anything

[wise sparrow]

Okay but they are still playables

[ripe furnace]

Without any new dinosaurs why would anyone pick anything other than carno

People want dinosaurs in a dinosaur game and it’s not in that side right now

Carno is just the poster child because there’s nothing to fight it

[sinful cove]

without other playables being equally viable why would anyone pick anything but carno*

a lot of people enjoy deinosuchus, not everyone is hard biased just because it's a dinosaur vs some other archosaur

if it is fun to play, good at fighting and worth the growth it will be picked

and carno is the best value for its growth right now

[sinful cove]

nothing to fight it because all of its checks got nerfed and utah got broken

[ocean wagon]

And apparently cerato wont be a good hunter, atleast not as good of a hunter as Utah and carno. So it won’t fit the “me carnivore me everything and broadcast” mindset 70% of carnivore players have

[sinful cove]

cerato will be a proactive defense animal most likely, like tenonto was

aka a brawler

so unless carnos choose to let cerato fight them it aint happening

[ocean wagon]

In other words, people will still pick carno mega packs over cerato

[sinful cove]

as long as carno has both speed and agility and all of its adversaries are unable to keep it in check it will remain as the most picked animal until something like allo comes out, then all the apex mains will flock over to that

[ocean wagon]

^^^^^

[native dirge]

PSA cause i see this in #general-feedback wayyy to much- NO amount of mechanic/Nerf/Debuff, will fix Mega pack/Mix packs /KOS /cannibalism, Only reason this wasn't an issue in legacy is cause most of us played on community run servers which had rules to stop it, Barking at the devs to do something to nerf a species, isn't going to fix anything. A server with no rules is fair game to anyone right now, may not be optimal for survival purposes, but once community run servers are back & have a new set of rules things will be better. Behave yourselves and stop asking devs too nerf a species into unplayability or asking for a mechanic that would break the game. Small rant over, sorry

[wise obsidian]

Adding rules isnt gon fix shit lmao

[ripe furnace]

Rules suck

[native dirge]

Community run servers had rules which most people followed, a majority of player were playing on cummunity servers in legacy.

[sinful cove]

Properly balancing matchups between animals who are bound to encounter eachother is very important. Combat rules are bullshit and should stay on community servers

[wise obsidian]

Yeah, community servers. We're talking about raw official servers where the devs actually look to for data

[calm ibex]

rules should not be the norm, they are just there because of necessity ?is this a word?
gonna go with it

[sinful cove]

The problem isnt “nerfing or buffing animals won't fix this”, it is the fact that the devs always overnerf or overbuff

Plus they break shit

[wise obsidian]

They made my boy teno horseshit again

And gave carno unnecessary buffs lmao

[native dirge]

My main point was- the stats of the dinosaurs aren't going to stop people from playing a certain way.

[sinful cove]

Due to their habit of occasional large patches vs smaller more frequent patches, they make too many changes at a time and mess stuff up

[wise obsidian]

They kind of do

[sinful cove]

They can most definitely affect it

[wise obsidian]

A nerfed pachy will be a wary pachy

And pachy was nerfed

[sinful cove]

If an animal isnt so superior to everything else it wont form as many megapacks, easy cause and affect

[calm ibex]

we have seen that its entirely based on balancing, therefore devs have all control in the world to "fix" it

[wise obsidian]

Before this patch if a carno player was dumb enough, a pachy could easily just ram it to death. You dont see that now

[sinful cove]

A lot of careless carnos were being killed earlier and keeping their numbers in check, the biggest problem was oasis allowing herbivores to form one megaherd at the center of the map

But they removed oasis, buffed carno, broke utah, and nerfed herbivores. Too many changes at once

Oasis should have been removed, pachy should have had had parry issue resolved, then they should have waited to see how that worked

Before making further changes

[dusky surge]

remember, throwing in cerato will fix all the game's issues. How? IDK, it will

[native dirge]

Yeah, they try to implement things in all at once and expect it to work somehow :I

[calm ibex]

cant wait to see how massive upsize is required for it to do shit to carno btw

[native dirge]

And cerato would help, haveing another carnivore for carno to compete with, but cerato isn't even in roadmap anymore atm 😩

[dusky surge]

yea it is what?

[sinful cove]

Cerato would barely help

Not on its own

[native dirge]

Its on the roadmap for future playibles, but not sceduled with a update yet

is what i mean't, sorry.

[dusky surge]

frankly i find the issues is devs are making people heard but its a clutter of voices that are being listened to at once

deinos and carnos were pissed over their treatment in U4 (can't really blame them, that shit was tragic), and devs heard that. They knew oasis was the issue that made these carnivores basically invalid, so they acted on that, added a new river and the like. These were good changes. However, they also responded to the complaints about the power of herbis, which was high, but that was primarily a subject of the existence of oasis and it's endless bounty

[ripe furnace]

The update was good no changes are needed apart from stego diet

[ripe furnace]

People will use it often and there will be less carnos

[dusky surge]

... why stego diet?

[ripe furnace]

Nah it’s tailslam damage was reduced by just around 100

[ripe furnace]

It has to travel far and it’s slow

[wise obsidian]

"just" 100? Okay lmao

[dusky surge]

it's an apex. I like it being hard to grow

[ripe furnace]

100 isn’t a lot in this case

[dusky surge]

I have more of an issue with pachy diets

[sinful cove]

It does like 180-190 damage now it was a sizeable nerf

[wise obsidian]

100 is a lot because it adds up. That's 100 less each time a teno tail slams

[dusky surge]

untrue, it double-taps utah

[ripe furnace]

That’s not a bad thing

[wise obsidian]

Pretty much is because it makes tail slam obsolete

[sinful cove]

Does it double tap utah with a head hit or what because slapping a carno on the body broadside with a full barrage is what it takes for tail damage to kill it rn

[wise obsidian]

Kick 2.0, just less useful now

[dusky surge]

body

[ripe furnace]

It’s not bad just because it can’t kill carno with a stun that it can’t escape from

Teno was overpowered then and the damage was hardly nerfed

[sinful cove]

Then how is it so inconsistent vs a stationary carno

[ripe furnace]

Don’t see what you’re seeing I see Tenos kill carnos all the time still

[wise obsidian]

If you're dumb enough to run into its ass, you get hit. It doesn't kill you unless you're already hurt

[sinful cove]

The tail hits like a wet noodle and the kick is unreliable

[ripe furnace]

That’s not a bad thing

It shouldn’t be able to kill a carno by spamming one move

[wise obsidian]

Yeah its not, but when a carno can take repeated stuns more than twice, thats a problem

[ripe furnace]

So do you just want it to die after 4 unavoidable tail slams?

[wise obsidian]

Carno can easily disengage whenever it wants

[sinful cove]

It shouldnt have its only reliable damage on a move that decides not to register more than half the time wven if its inside the target

[wise obsidian]

It never HAS to die

[ripe furnace]

It literally cannot move

[sinful cove]

A move thay is extreme clsoe range

[ripe furnace]

That doesn’t make it balanced

[spare badger]

Kick rarely ever works
Slam doesn't do much
Carno can leave whenever it wants

[spare badger]

That's if it keeps fighting lol

[wise obsidian]

During the tail slam, yeah. But if you're paying attention to your health, carno can disengage easily. Whats your point?

[ripe furnace]

The point is that teno shouldn’t use the tailslam as a killing move on a carno with full health

Because that’s stupid

[wise obsidian]

That's your fault for going for a teno while you're hurt

That doesnt mean teno should be nerfed

[sinful cove]

They should have fixed tail slam, not destroyed it. Changing the cc from a stun to a knockdown could have removed the issue of it leaving a carno on deaths door in one barrage

[ripe furnace]

I said full

[spare badger]

It would never happen at full health anymore

[ripe furnace]

It’s literally a 100 damage difference

[wise obsidian]

You said "ill" at first so mb. But it wasnt a killing move, just a very damaging one

[ripe furnace]

I know that’s why I said the change is good

[sinful cove]

100 is a large number and thats if this is even true because a carno can tank a full barrage

[ripe furnace]

That doesn’t make it balanced and many carnos died from that

[ripe furnace]

It’s not a large number in this context

[sinful cove]

And the stam cost is atrocious for how useless the ability is

[wise obsidian]

So? They died because they went in while they were hurt

[spare badger]

The change isn't good
It's been changed too much

[ripe furnace]

If teno uses it’s tailslam all the way out carno dies

[ripe furnace]

No they’d be full health and die

[wise obsidian]

While i agree the damage was a bit much it shouldnt have been nerfed so badly. 30-50 points off of its damage wouldve been fine but 100? Nah

[sinful cove]

Just bonk the carno on the head, lose 10% of your stam and fail to land kicks because the game says no even if your legs are knee deep in the carno's chest

[ripe furnace]

It was very overpowered and 50 is hardly a change at all

[wise obsidian]

It really wasnt, you're talking from the experience of oasis which is obsolete at this point

[ripe furnace]

Then kick is the problem not tailslam

[sinful cove]

Both things are a problem

[wise obsidian]

I only advocate for teno tail slam because i played carno regularly, and it was so easy to kill tenos. If you cant kill a teno by yourself 1v1 thats on you

[ripe furnace]

What’s your point if that’s what I’m talking about

[ripe furnace]

That doesn’t make the move balanced at all

Tenos still kill carnos all the time everyone is overreacting because they can’t instant kill everything

If anything buff Tenos claw attack

[sinful cove]

Tailsam has been gutted yet still costs a significant tick of stamina, kick is too close range of an attack to be a reliable main defense and doesnt even register a lot of times, the slappy hands is barely used from any teno ive seen

[ripe furnace]

100 damage is not gutted

You shouldn’t only be attacking with tailslam anyways

[wise obsidian]

I've been tail slammed many times by tenos pre-patch. They had none of the killing capacity that you were on about earlier

[ripe furnace]

Big skill issues here

[sinful cove]

It is, especially since it costs too much stam

[ripe furnace]

Good for you I guess but I’ve seen plenty of carnos just die off the bat from that one move

[sinful cove]

I havent even played teno much this patch ive mostly been harassing and killing them before i got bored and also sick of the new camera

[ripe furnace]

One kick and tailslams andd the carno died

[wise obsidian]

You dont know their exact health, so why assume they were full health? They mightve been hurt.

[ripe furnace]

That doesn’t make it balanced

[ripe furnace]

Because I’ve watched gameplay

[spare badger]

Tail slam does very little damage for 10% stamina cost, and kick doesn't work. It's as simple as that.

[wise obsidian]

Needless to say tail slam is shit now. Thats my point

[ripe furnace]

Just fix the kick and leave tailslam

[wise obsidian]

So hard agree

[ripe furnace]

Teno vs carno should always be around 50/50 but I’ve never seen it till now

[wise sparrow]

The way I see it
Carno

1. Needs a tad less agility
2. Needs more food

Teno

1. Tail slam needs to take less stam
2. Kick needs to be fixed
3. Claw is a tad redundant atm.

Pachy

1. More reliable leg hit boxes
2. More agility when charging
3. Quieter calls

Utah

1. Fix its pounce

Deino

1. Needs a harder juvi stage
2. Needs some counter to grab.
3. Mega pack sent needs to be more reliable on them

[ripe furnace]

Carno has no agility

[spare badger]

Then you miss have the problem
Give slam fractures and less stam cost

[wise obsidian]

"No agility" what

[ripe furnace]

A fracture slam is op

[sinful cove]

Talking about skill issues, then saying this

[wise sparrow]

...it spins like a ballerina to aim constant headshots.

[ripe furnace]

If anything that should only be the case for small tier

Skill issue

[ripe furnace]

That’s not agility if it’s stationary

How would you want it to respond

[wise obsidian]

Blunt have you played carno or teno this patch?

[spare badger]

*mild fracture
Body fractures for long fights is good

[wise sparrow]

Carno is a ATV atm. It can go anywhere and do anything

[ripe furnace]

Both yes

[spare badger]

I doubt it

[ripe furnace]

Body fracture is fine I guess but no leg

Head is fine too

[spare badger]

Slam would never hit leg
I agree with that

Sublime's idea shows my point
Fuck it bro. I'm joining Carno vs Teno shitstorm. It's obvious. Teno should be stronger than Carno. It cannot escape. It can only fight back. So make Tailslam deal quite heavy stun, MILD fracture damage, and quite cheap in stam and medium damage. Kick should be stam expensive, no fracture damage, mild stagger, medium bleed, high damage (and a bit larger hitbox ffs). Claw should be very stam cheap, low damage and VERY high bleed. Bite is fine, should be weak and stam free. Teno is way too weak, especially for constant Carno overpopulation. Ik he's a herby, should be ez to grow, but not so good at combat, but please- Basic balance: "i can't run? Then i can fight. And Vice Versa"

Balancing teno should be simple

[wise obsidian]

This is literally the whole point i'm making:

Teno should be stronger than Carno. It cannot escape. It can only fight back.
Why complain about teno's slam being strong when it's supposed to be strong

Its so easy to get a carno pack going that it needs to defend itself

[spare badger]

It makes teno a bit boring so I want kick to get some love
Give slam fractures and kick the damage

[ripe furnace]

Teno is equal to carno doesn’t need to be a mid tier

[spare badger]

?????? Are you serious??

[ripe furnace]

Yes

[spare badger]

Do you- not understand the point at all?

[wise obsidian]

What are you suggesting? Are you saying teno should be small tier?

[wise sparrow]

Teno shouldn't be equal. If the teno playes defense then ot should have the upper hand

[ripe furnace]

It already is

[wise obsidian]

Lol what

[ripe furnace]

High end of small tier

[wise sparrow]

Teno is only 200kg smaller than carno. So is carno a small teir?

[ripe furnace]

It usually does if it avoids the initial hewdbutt

[spare badger]

Just because it is SLIGHTLY SMALLER doesn't mean it should lose

I DESPISE that line of thinking

[ripe furnace]

Carno is low mid tier

[ripe furnace]

What part of 50/50 means lose to you

[wise obsidian]

And teno is also a low mid tier by those standards

[ripe furnace]

whatever u say

[spare badger]

That is a lose because teno is slower and can't escape

[wise sparrow]

Ah yes so that 200kg means carno should shit on teno half the time while also being faster

[ripe furnace]

If it is a 50/50 then why does it matter if it’s slower

[sinful cove]

50/50 is lose for a slower animal who is forced ln the defensive from something that controls the engagement

[ripe furnace]

Are you saying teno shoild beat 2 carnos with ease

[mental roost]

Because one party can completely control the whole fight

[spare badger]

Because it's not fair to the teno
How is this- I can't anymore

[ripe furnace]

That’s not how 50/50 works

[ripe furnace]

Then don’t

[spare badger]

It is

[wise obsidian]

A teno v. carno fight should be 60/40, 50/50 if the carno gets a charge in

[sinful cove]

Yes it is. Carno has a 50/50 in the melee + engagement advantage

[wise sparrow]

If the teno playes defensively AND is in a wetland or forest it should be 70/30 in tenos favor. Out in a field it should be 60/40

[ripe furnace]

It can and it does

[wise obsidian]

Barely

[ripe furnace]

Skill issue

[spare badger]

If you got into a fight and you were equal but couldn't get away the other party would continue to harass you

[wise sparrow]

2 carnos can instantly delete a teno

[ripe furnace]

50/50 field 70/40 swamp

[sinful cove]

It can not reliable defend itself because the carno can fuck off to recover whenever it likes and the teno can not

[spare badger]

2 carnos should be scared

[ripe furnace]

Yes it’s not hard at all

[ripe furnace]

That doesn’t insinuate they lost at all

[spare badger]

Oh so just don't let teno play.of 90% of the map? That's smart

[ripe furnace]

They just got out of the way

[ripe furnace]

What part of 50/50 don’t you understand

[spare badger]

It doesn't
It insinuates that you need 2 to kill it easily

[sinful cove]

They got out of the way, something carno barely has to do now

[wise obsidian]

Blunt all of the people in this discussion are against you, what's your point here

[sinful cove]

Carno can make so many mistakes

[ripe furnace]

Sure thing buddy

[ripe furnace]

That teno is fine

[spare badger]

What part of "That's not how 50/50 works" do you not understand?

[wise obsidian]

Its not

Are you someone who struggled to kill tenos pre-patch?

[ripe furnace]

The only changes needed are roster food placement and ai

[wise obsidian]

Because i sure didnt. Not at all

[wise sparrow]

Blunt so what your saying is carno should be...

1. Faster
2. Stronger
3. In packs
4. Grow faster
5. Have complete domain over plains
   And more?

[ripe furnace]

Nope

[mental roost]

Sure sounds like it

[wise obsidian]

Ok, then why complain about its main weapon being devastating?

[ripe furnace]

What part of my argument said that teno isn’t stronger

[spare badger]

[ripe furnace]

Because that’s what it was

[ripe furnace]

Teno can join a herd and it’s already the same strength

[wise obsidian]

It was supposed to be. Why is that a problem? It helped it defend itself, and if someone was absolutely shit at teno and used it without regard for stamina, they were easy pickings

[wise sparrow]

Hes gonna cry after he sees shant shit on a rex

[ripe furnace]

It was a broken mechanic

[spare badger]

'Rex should be faster than Utah and have tons of stamina and 1 shot trike' -Blunt, using this logic

[ripe furnace]

Where did you get the idea that Rex would ever be faster than a Utah

[wise obsidian]

How is it broken, explain to me

[wise sparrow]

Why should teno be forced to join a herd to be viable?

[spare badger]

What will he do when anky comes out? It's smaller guys it has to lose

[ripe furnace]

It’s viable alone but if it gets jumped it dies that’s not rocket science

[spare badger]

Sounds like something you would say

[calm ibex]

let carno do combined friendship charges

[wise obsidian]

Why should teno be forced to join a herd to be viable?
Great point here. Why suggest for players to group in order for a dinosaur to be viable? It automatically makes the dinosaur shit. A dinosaur should be viable solo, always.

[ripe furnace]

You don’t need to talk anymore if you aren’t going to provide anything constructive

[wise obsidian]

And carno is very viable solo

[wise sparrow]

I've seen good tenos get incinerated by 2 carnos that just walked up to it and started fighting. Teno has no advantage anymore

[ripe furnace]

Its viable alone that’s what I’m saying. If it gets attacked by multiple parties what makes you think it has the upper hand

[wise sparrow]

Give carno BoB friendship system

[mental roost]

Nerfing tail slam so much was a bad idea, especially given Tenotosaurus is KNOWN for its tail, its primary feature. Stun could've used reworking but making the tail slam so weak just cucked it.. Loss of a 100 damage is A LOT , especially in the current roster. Carno has 1800 health. The current damage is laughable when Carno's own bite does the same damage and hits faster, out DPSing a heavy hitting, stationary defensive attack.

Skill issue or not it's bad game design from both a balance and realism standpoint. The defending party needs some sort of advantage or else the attackers usually just roll all over them.

[wise obsidian]

It's not viable because there will always be a carnivore bias over herbivores. This means regular encounters with packs, and it will need to be stronger to defend itself in such cases

You will find less herbivores than carnivores now that oasis is gone

[spare badger]

Carno needs to lose to Tenonto for Tenonto to not be garbage

[ripe furnace]

It got jumped and if it was good it still could’ve survived

[ripe furnace]

So do you want teno to beat multiple carnos with ease

All of this is a skill issue

I can still kill carnos fine it’s really not the end of all things

[wise obsidian]

It should be able to handle 3 with a 40/60 chance. Remember carnos can easily disengage whenever they want

[spare badger]

Teno shouldnt beat multiple carnos with ease
But it should have an advantage in a 1v1 and not be stomped on in a 2v1

[ripe furnace]

If you avoid the initial charge you are okay

[wise sparrow]

The carno vs teno matchup should go like this

Carno ambushes teno? Carno had advantage

Carno tries to brawl teno? Teno has the advantage.

Teno is in its element? Carno is really fucked

[ripe furnace]

Hell no

[spare badger]

[ripe furnace]

The field is carnos element

What’s the odds then

[spare badger]

That doesn't matter if it tries to brawl teno
The difference is, carno cant swim

[wise sparrow]

Yes but teno also performs okay in fields.
Carno sucks in wetlands and jungles

[wise obsidian]

Tbh. One of the best strategies that still exists with tenos is just swim. Especially northwest river, no deinos reside there because they're all exploring center. Swim away from the carnos

[spare badger]

*by design

[ripe furnace]

So carno has no advantage ever despite being designed to kill with violence and force

[spare badger]

Yes

[ripe furnace]

You want carno to be a cheetah or something?

[wise sparrow]

No carno has an advantage if it plays right.
By ambushing

[spare badger]

If you are fighting an animal designed to fight you it's going to have an advantage

If you don't want to fight go chase a utah

[wise obsidian]

Kill with violence and force? Take another look at its abelisaurid skull lmao

[spare badger]

Or a dryo

[wise obsidian]

If you want a dinosaur that "kills with violence and force" go play rex, not a small game hunter

[spare badger]

Carno has more food options than just teno if you don't want to fight lol

[wise sparrow]

Carno should be strictly an ambush predator when going up against animals that have tools to kill/injure/impair carno

[ripe furnace]

Abelisaurs are created with a robust build and powerful neck muscles

[wise obsidian]

For gripping, not for slashing and crushing

But this is paleo talk

[ripe furnace]

They were serrated quite well

[spare badger]

Gripping? Like, maybe grabbing small animals? Hhmmmmm

[calm ibex]

imagine if there was solid gameplay plan for what carno is supposed to great at
example:ambush predator
greatly increased dmg + potential status effects tied to charge
+reduced hunger drain to allow setting up ambushes

-reduced potential at straight up brawling

not a suggestion btw just an example as it is carno is just oversized utah

[wise obsidian]

Not as serrated as carcharodontosauridae though

[ripe furnace]

So only Rex is allowed to kill got it

[wise sparrow]

A super good carno should be able to brawl an average teno. But it should be hard as hell

[mental roost]

Carno's head is kind of small compared to its body. Lining up the skulls of our utahraptor and irl carno and cerato skulls. Carno has the tallest skull but is beaten out in length and overall size by Cerato's skull(which may be not be as compact but still a big head), with our Utah's head being close to the length of our carno's skull.

[spare badger]

Who said that?

[wise obsidian]

I've brawled tenos quite easily pre-patch. It'd just be too easy now

Might go grow a carno and then make various clips of decimating tenos just to show how garbage they are now

[ripe furnace]

I’ve fought teno pre and post patch and I’ve played teno as well and it all jumbled down to either skill issue or outnumbered

Since there’s like 1000000000 carnos it’s mostly the second

[spare badger]

I know skill issues and carno out-brawling a teno isn't one of them, it's bad design

[ripe furnace]

It’s not bad design in any way carno wasn’t a weak animal

Being fast ≠ small game exclusive

[mental roost]

It straight up is bad design '

[wise obsidian]

Since you yourself referred to gameplay for how teno's nerf looked, i'll say this: i've watched videos of a single carno taking on 2 tenos post patch. Both promptly died, and the carno didnt take many hits, and if it did, they were minute

[mental roost]

Standard rules of balancing and engagement that are COMMON SENSE.

[spare badger]

Nobody cares about irl carno rn

In game they are making it a fast small game hunter. Don't make it a brawler too.

[ripe furnace]

Skill issue

[wise obsidian]

Thats not an argument, its like me saying yo mama lmao. At least give me a point

[ripe furnace]

It killing small game in the concept doesn’t make it exclusive. And they matched its stats to be far from that anyway

[spare badger]

Who said exclusive?

[wise obsidian]

Do you expect carno to take an allosaurus or albertosaurus since its "not exclusive" to small game?

[spare badger]

I just said it isn't a brawler

[ripe furnace]

It’s what you’re implying

[ripe furnace]

You’re evading all nuance

[spare badger]

It can hunt teno but It should never outbrawl a brawler, that's just dumb

[ripe furnace]

Allo and Albert are thousands of pounds heavier

Your argument doesn’t make much sense

[wise obsidian]

Yours doesnt either

[ripe furnace]

It really is a skill issue

[spare badger]

Neither does yours....

[mental roost]

Slower animals need some form of dealing with predation. Tenoto should hold the advantage in a 1 v 1 with Carno but still be able to be taken down if successfully played out. The numbers do not lie and it is not a skill issue problem either. Tenoto's tail slam is garbage due to a both the high stamina cost and reduced damage.

[ripe furnace]

Dying to a mega pack doesn’t make it bad

[spare badger]

Not really
An attack taking too much stamina for what it's worth is a balance issue

[ripe furnace]

You want to make teno into something it’s not

[spare badger]

Nobody has mentioned a megapack in like 20 minutes

[ripe furnace]

The stamina buff is fine though

[wise obsidian]

Megapacks are only prevalent now because carno is the apex of the current ecosystem and was recently buffed. We're talking about 1v1 situations, not a group against a group

[ripe furnace]

It’s the only time I see people kill Tenos easily

[wise obsidian]

Groups are harder to determine whether something was really a skill issue or stat imbalance

But teno does have a higher skill roof than other dinosaurs

[spare badger]

Teno v Carno needs to be Teno favour for it to be balanced
I'll give you another example.
Maia should lose to Allo because it has the ability to run away. It controls the interaction. Does that makes sense?